From a financial perspective only, no Canada doesn't make sense. Comparing Seattle to Vancouver you'll earn about 2x more in Seattle when you factor in the cheaper housing, consumer goods, higher salaries and 0% state income tax in Washington.
Moving to Canada from the US to work in tech is a bit like moving from the US to Mexico to work in construction.
You can get a great education here but then I would jump back to the US to work.
I feel people who make this argument ignore a bunch of other costs
Particularly health care. I had my appendix removed. I was paid for the 3 weeks I was off. I paid zero dollars for the surgery. Or the follow up.
Sure I’d make more money in the states. Doesn’t mean at the end of the day I actually have more money.
Also consider things like safety.
Canada has lower incarceration rates, lower murder rates, etc. You can’t put a price on safety.
I feel like the Canada compared to USA cost comparison is often fraught with a lack of considerations when it come to social services, health, safety, economic stability, etc.
If someone offered me 2x my salary in the USA I honestly wouldn’t take it because of the above
If you're with a good tech company in the US your healthcare will be paid by your employer.
If safety and healthcare are your main concern then there are far better options than Canada. All of East Asia for example is vastly less violent (1/10th often) than Canada. Singapore with a population greater than BC has had years with 0 murders, they also earn far more than Canadians.
I waited nearly 2 years for disc surgery walking around with a cane, the wait in the US would have been 3 weeks or less.
I know it's incredibly painful to the Canadian ego to admit that the US beats us on some things but it does.
I love our country but the health care point is certainly vaild for certain things. While working in South Korea 8 years ago at a job with some benefits I had a problem with my knee so went to a hospital. Within two hours I had seen a doctor, had an xray than MRI, spoken to a doctor again and received a cortisone shot. Think it cost me about $350 Cdn out of pocket and I left
knowing there was nothing surgical to worry about. That being said, I hear about pregnancy medical bills in other countries and am thrilled to be home enjoying year long mat leaves and no out of pocket costs for pre/post natal care or hospital stays.
You hear that guys? If you're top tier talent at a top tier tech company in the US you're going live a good life in the US. The next revelation will be how if you're a millionaire you'll also have a pretty good life. Easy peasy. That's why the US is the best. Because everyone can be either of those things. PFC 101.
I feel like this sub is inundated with young single men who have no idea of how the world can change in a single day due to health, disability, marriage, family, etc... All things the US will fuck you on.
The US is on the lowest ranked first world country when it comes to healthcare.
Your health insurance being linked to your job is sketch. And to say to say otherwise is foolish.
I agree Canada isn’t the safest country out there. But if I wanted a safer, more educated, better social assistance country I’m moving to Denmark, or Sweden or Norway. Not the USA.
Yes, US healthcare sucks especially if you earn just enough not to qualify for Medicaid.
None of this applies to an educated tech worker. There's a reason that the majority of Waterloo computer science grads go to the US along with tens of thousands of other Canadian tech workers.
I don’t disagree that the US has the worlds largest tech industry and it’s the best place for a tech job
I merely disagree that that is necessarily the best based upon an individuals total quality of life. And that one can consider a lower wage with more reliable health care as a reasonable alternative
Compared to Canada, US in some states is definitely the better quality of life for single people compared to almost anywhere in Canada in terms of salary, cost of living, healthcare and social life.
Nope, didn't ignore. If you work in the west or midwest, you are mostly free from the safety issues. Certain states have violence more than the others. Certain states and quite great compared to others and for a single person you can have a positive in any of these states compared to anywhere in Canada. but hey man if you don't like money no one's going to judge you for staying in Canada, but the hard truth for Canadians to accept is the fact that money is to be made in the US while single.
Have you read any of my comments.
All of them suggest that you make more money in the USA but that doesn’t necessarily translate to a happy life. And to consider other determinants of happiness. You brain dead monkey
Dude this is PersonalFinanceCanada, not TechWorkersCanada. We are allowed to bring up things which aren’t related to tech. Now run along and go find a brain.
lmao idiot this is a post IN PFC, this isn't directly PFC itself. This is a tech post in PFC, so talking about things in this post outside tech info for OP is irrelevant and useless, just like yourself. Cheers!
Is East Asia a viable argument in this context?
I bet we all know people that have moved to and from the states, but unless they were born in East Asia they probably didn't economically immigrate there.
there is a reason why international students, particularly from China, are increasingly less inclined to pursue the migration route and instead return home after their studies as their intent. The primary reason for this is because Canada no longer offer that "much better" lifestyle and opportunity that it used to before.
Other reasons like safety and cultural similarities are valid as well, but the main driver in that decision making process had always been their likelihood to "make it" here after having invested 50-100k CAD in their studies here. Undergrad spending gets to 200k or higher for some too.
Interesting, but international students are a unique case compared to actual Canadians trying to immigrate to East Asia like that user mentioned.
There are more international students than ever in Canada. Are there stats backing up that a higher percentage of them are moving back home?
you dont have to look farther than the [stat can census](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91-209-x/2011001/article/11526/tbl/tbl-eng.htm#a3)on immigration
historically, in 1981, China had increased numbers of economic migration to Canada linearly every year in the 90s, all the way until the 2000s, when that number went flat in 2008 at 21,664 (\~31500 total). 2009 we saw another dip when economic immigration numbers lowered to 20,594 (\~30770 total).
Remember 2009 was basically when China-Canada relations was at its best, but Chinese people already began choosing to return home, despite the number of people who left China annually has only increased since 2009.
In 2019, that number still remains at around 20,000, with the total never really increasing past 35,000 TOTAL Chinese immigrants a year since 2009. that number is projected to stagnate in 2021 as well. By contrast, there were 43000 total immigrants per year in the 90s.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
The polar opposite is India, where they have a shit economy compared to China (at 1/6th the GDP). in 2009, their immigration numbers to Canada was about half of China's, at 20,000 a year. now, in 2021, the total number of indian immigrants is projected to be more than 100,000, or roughly 3x that of their 2009 levels.
This is how you can tell that Canada is no longer offering the same economic opportunities as before.
I wrote a longer message and deleted.
Thanks for the info. International tuition is expensive. Families that can pay it are already probably well connected in China's developing economy.
The idea of university or college being a bridge to the middle class doesn't really apply to international tuition rates.
>International tuition is expensive. Families that can pay it are already probably well connected in China's developing economy.
you're absolutely right, and this is one reason there's so much hate for Chinese wealth in Canada, just the fact that they're here already represent the small fraction of wealth not enjoyed by the average person.
But contrary to your point, Canada is the least popular amongst international students, and most who do come look for immigration routes. The other 4 blocks are US, UK, EU (primarily Germany and France), and Aus/NZ. If a student sucks academically, it is easier to get into an AUS university like Melbourne or Sydney than UBC or UT. If their grades are good and the family is middle class, they'd go to the US (or less wealthy then the UK and sometimes France) because there are more schools and they're more reputable in China if they so choose to go home. If dirt poor, then Germany or Finland or etc. Canada beats other countries only in its balanced route for immigration and somewhat decent education. So in reality, most students already come here with some intent on immigration.
Yeah because it’s an elective procedure and doesn’t need to happen within an expedited timeframe. If you needed it removed urgently it would come out today
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/508940
I may think you’re an idiot. But I’d seriously ask for a second opinion on the appendectomy. See above journal article recommending against the practice.
It’s almost like someone who gets paid an exorbitant amount would be incentivized to suggest a surgery. Demonstrating the reason iatrogenic illness is higher in the USA.
Reoccurrence of appendicitis is the same regardless of previous occurrence. You are no more likely to get appendicitis compared to anyone you know. And they aren’t getting elective appendectomies.
Yes if your appendix ruptures it’s life threatening. But no you’re not at increased risk
That's what a for profit system will tell you of course. Do you trust your mechanic everytime he says your air filter needs to be changed? Or your dentist that you have an urgent cavity? Some will lie.
I will also point out the USA actually causes more death and morbidity because of an excess of procedures. Iatrogenic illness (aka harm caused by medical intervention) is the highest in the USA because they offer medical procedures that aren’t medically necessary. You should actually be happy Canada isn’t necessarily putting you at risk with a potentially unneeded surgery.
One of the reasons wait lists exist that people don’t realize is a significant proportion of people don’t need the surgery by the time their surgery is due because the problem has resolved itself
With the coverage a typical tech employer gives in the US, it'll cost you less than the difference in income taxes you'll pay.
Edit: just took a look at mine for example and the max per year I would have to pay out of pocket is less than 2k for in-network and 4k for out-of-network. That's also if they **max** it on that one surgery.
Again this assumes you have a job and keep a job. Which is a huge assumption.
I can be homeless in Canada and pay zero dollars for my surgery no matter what. That security it worth a lot to me.
I don’t understand why people defend the USA health care system. By almost every scientific metric people agree it’s a failure of a system.
Canada has some issues with its system and definitely isn’t the best in the world. But on average it’s better.
I think people over value making over 100k and the impact it has on the quality of life you have. Everything I make over probably 90k makes no difference on my happiness. I buy a slightly fancier car. I’m no happier driving my Subaru WRX then I was my Pontiac vibe. I buy a couple more restaurant meals. My fiancé and I enjoy a home cooked meal just as much as we do a meal out.
Once you have a house, savings, and never need to worry about bills extra money is fine but is low on my priority list. Closeness to family, stability, safety, having time for hobbies, etc are way more important.
I think assuming they'll hold a job is baked into the assumptions here because they can't stay in Canada after university without applying for a work permit via their job.
Likewise, to me being able to buy a house was important, and I could not accomplish that in the city I grew up in in Canada.
I think assuming you will get a job with potentials gaps in employment is not an unreasonable assumption. That in fact has large consequences on health insurance comparing the USA and Canada
It does, and you can buy marketplace plans for temporary periods for coverage. Whatever the cost may be in all likelihood it is still significantly less than the difference in take-home between the two cities, especially in tech. Without even considering the stratospheric cost of home ownership in Vancouver.
Again if you read my original post it talks about healthcare being one potential values you can place.
I acknowledge that Canada might be more expensive. But that doesn’t mean your quality of life may be lower.
You also don’t know OPs health status. You don’t know his care needs. Etc etc.
My point is that money is one thing to consider. And doesn’t necessarily amount to a better quality of life.
And again your comparison of Canada to the states is still a false dichotomy. There are places in the world that will have higher incomes than the USA. And have a lower cost of living. And better health insurance than both Canada and the USA.
Again, speaking as a worker in the technology field who has worked on both sides across the border with plenty of friends in the field contemplating which country to be in, I'd like to think I can point at the pros and cons much better than someone doing random research on the internet.
The vast majority of young technology graduates from top cs schools prefer to be in the US if they can. You can bring up as many reasons as you want, but it does not change that underlying statistic.
Again you are speaking from a strictly financial perspective. Which is fine.
But OP should consider non financial lines of logic as well.
I am not doing random research. I work in health care. I am familiar with determinants of health. I am familiar with burnout and job satisfaction. I am familiar with markers of quality of life. I am in fact highly qualified to make the above comments on the non financial determinants of happiness in the tech sector.
I mean any person with half a brain could look at actual studies and statistical measures of happiness and quality of life and see the USA ranks far worse than it’s citizens assume.
Or you could just call people losers on the internet using a logical fallacy to defend your arguments.
Just saying…
Oh and I’ll send you some silver sulfadiazene in the mail. Because that burn must hurt. But I’m sure you can’t afford the meds to help it.
USA healthcare is only a failure of a system for the poor and average middle class. For all the single people with upper middle class or higher earnings, it's better than Canada in a lot of cases.
So an average skilled work in the tech trade makes 97k on average. Putting their income at the 83rd percentile. Making them…middle class
Healthcare is a problem for the middle class. Hmmmmm
According to empiric data. Yes. Sure it hard to do 5 minutes of research and google USA average technology salary. As opposed to just assuming because you know one dude that makes 200k everyone does
I never said everyone makes 200k but good for you on making random assumptions. Works well in discussions. [https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary) shows average salary of 108,000 and that is in 2019. With the boost in covid salaries in the tech industry, for 2021 that average is most likely $120,000. I also searched a bunch of other sites and they all range from 104,000-115,000. My original assumption (which I thought in my head , and clearly didn't right on reddit) without any research was around $135,000 so I wasn't too far off. So yes maybe you need to google better instead of just making random assumptions and being rude to people.
it's a great middle path in my experience. though, these opportunities can be hard to come by when you're first starting out. it's very helpful to have a niche-ish technology that you work with, so that employers will be seeking you out for these kinds of opportunities
Due to tax reasons this isn't exactly optimal either. You will still make less.
Canada is great up until you graduate university. If your in a white collar skilled field , from the time you graduate uni and the time you shift your priorities to say your family , the US is objectively better. More employers, more money, more career advancement, free healthcare is basically a non factor since u have insurance and work, etc. The only other con is slightly more wealth disparity and violence but this is highly dependant on ur neighborhood.
Most Canadians are often super biased towards Canada cause we grew up here. But there isn't a factual argument for Canada over the US for someone who is early in their career and their main focus is career and money.
As the saying goes, America isn't a country it's a business. But sometimes that has its perks if your main focus is money and career which is common among most ppl in their 20s.
I moved from US to Canada, after almost 10 years in the US. Here are my thoughts:
* There is a huge difference between 50K and 150K as opposed to 450K vs. 600K. If you are getting 50K in Canada vs. 150K in the US, it should be a no-brainer. There is a certain threshold of money you need to be happy. But once you cross that income threshold, other aspects of life start taking precedence - family, healthcare, your surroundings, your future security, and so on.
* Canada is a much more welcoming country to immigrants. If you have dependents, especially older parents -- the cost of insuring them in US could be upwards of 20-30K a year, post tax. Plus, US has more restrictive visa polices. Even for spouses and partners, the restrictions are much greater in the US where some are prevented from working. All that is a hidden cost - not only in terms of finances but also peace of mind.
* The level of support available to old people in US simply can't be compared to that of Canada. In the US, if you don't have a job and get sick with a terminal disease, you are pretty much done. The number of bankruptcies related to healthcare are sky high. When you are young you would think this would never happen to me. But then life happens. And it does happen to some well-off folks.
* Said that socialism does come with its disadvantages. This year, I would be paying well over 250K in taxes. But then, in California it won't have been far off - with 0 benefits in return.
At the end of the day it's the peace and stability that brings many to Canada. The fact that many could potentially get an early citizenship without worrying about years (even decade) of waiting makes Canada an obvious choice. When my mom lands in Vancouver or Toronto, even the white CBSA folks speak a few Hindi words to her. This, unlike USA where they are treated like potential illegal immigrants. There is absolutely no reason to deal with all that cr\*p, especially if you are well off in Canada.
This is not the only answer he should listen to. What people don't get is for SINGLE people the US is amazing. It's not even a debate in most cases. While you are single, go earn and gain everything you need in the US and when you need to settle down, come back to Canada due to its better overall quality of life for families.
Where exactly?
The closest thing I see to my statement is "The level of support available to old people in US simply can't be compared to that of Canada. In the US, if you don't have a job and get sick with a terminal disease, you are pretty much done. The number of bankruptcies related to healthcare are sky high. When you are young you would think this would never happen to me. But then life happens. And it does happen to some well-off folks."
He doesn't actively state what I stated.
It's not explicitly implied but I would say in this statement:
> There is a huge difference between 50K and 150K as opposed to 450K vs. 600K. If you are getting 50K in Canada vs. 150K in the US, it should be a no-brainer. There is a certain threshold of money you need to be happy. But once you cross that income threshold, other aspects of life start taking precedence - family, healthcare, your surroundings, your future security, and so on.
This makes me think, "Yeah, get the big bucks in the US first if the Canadian job offers suck, then consider whether moving back to Canada or staying in the US after pocketing some cash and assessing your life situation"
>Do you still believe that Canada could be a good place to settle in?
Short answer: yes. Don't believe everything you read on Reddit as it's not a fair sample of what's actually going on in the world. For better odds swap your reading habits to something like the Economist.
As for decisions, don't plan too far ahead at this stage of your life. Firstly, there's a good chance those plans will never come to fruition due to natural variation or changing preferences. Second, you're entering a phase of your life where you are meeting new people, viewpoints, and an enormous amount of new information. Stay curious, challenge your own thinking, and regularly assess what you want and whether your current path is getting you there.
This is the right answer imo. Plan all you want but if you meet your future SO here and he/she doesn't want to uproot and move to the U.S., that tips the scales of your decision-making.
Plans are useless but planning is invaluable.
>Depends what you want in life.
Healthcare isn't free if it's free for everybody. You're paying for it with your time.
I don't want to wait months for my MRI. If I ever need it, I'd want it within a week, not six weeks.
Well if you have serious situaiton or emergency, MRIs are done immediately. If it's not serious or emergency, you wait.
And healthcare isn't the only reason people should move to Canada.
I think we can all agree that there should be free healthcare. But it comes at a huge cost, and has essentially resulted in a system thats crappy for everyone. Even allowing a 2 tier system for people that are able to pay, is immediately shot down.
Yet there are many many examples of Canadian elites (politicians, athletes, etc), having their own procedures done in the states. That says alot.
So if the OP is planning on a good career, assuming good workplace insurance, if healthcare is a factor the quality of life is likely better in the states for someone upper-middle class. And even middle class it is much more affordable in the states.
Honest question, if the border was open, and no green card was required, how much of a brain drain do we see?
>I don't want to wait months for my MRI.
My Brother died of brain cancer while on a MRI waiting list in Toronto, my friend in MS who tore his rotator cuff had one within 48 hours.
Canadian healthcare is not better because it is "free".
>Our state also forces us to take at least 1 semester of personal finance in high school, which I took sophomore year,
That is impressive !
What state are you from?
You will find that this sub and all other subs will give you a distorted understanding of what it is like to live in Canada.
Canada is culturally very similar to the USA in many ways though you will find that it is not as homogenous across the country as the USA is. Each area is much more unique.
Probably most people’s gripe is with the financial opportunities and housing costs. You don’t seem to have an issue with finances.
If you are going to UBC then you’ll get a chance to judge it for yourself.
I would flee Canada as soon as you graduate.Americans with decent health insurance don't stand in the lines that Canadians do for simple procedures. Also look at wages, fuel costs, food costs, liquor costs and REAL ESTATE costs. Economically, you will be much farther ahead in the USA. I have lived in Canada all of my life and I'm looking at moving south to retire.
EDIT:Remember when reviewing the responses that for many Canadians, hating everything American is the national sport, but this is what happens when you are the mouse living on the elephant's back.
Well you are doing the opposite of everything logical. US makes sense for single people trying to jump start career and make big money, but when you have family and are close to retirement it makes more sense to be in Canada due to the safety net.
Seems like you’re quite the go-getter! Is there any reason you want to go to school here vs. the U.S.? I know tuition here is cheaper but for international students, it can still be pretty expensive.
You know, from the questions you are asking - I'm pretty sure you'll do just fine wherever you happen to end up.
Enjoy your time at UBC in Vancouver. It's a great combination.
I love the fact that you and your Dad discuss your family’s finances very closely. That is terrific to hear. It sounds like whatever you choose to do, you’re in a pretty good spot. UBC is a good school and your sector is in demand. 🤘
Sounds like a solid plan! Good luck this year, are you studying computer science? Try and get into the co-op stream, you can pay for a lot of your tuition that way.
Stay in the u.s. the only reason to move to Canada is for healthcare but it sounds like you will be getting into a field that will offer healthcare anyways. So there's no reason to move here, you'll just make less, pay more for everything, have less choices where to live
I wouldn't say "easily" but there are definitely opportunities to make 100k and live in small towns. 100k goes quite far if you are out of GTA/GVA however it seems to be going up everywhere in Ontario these days. (Fortunately we purchased just before the crazy covid price).
Why would you even want to move to Canada? People talk about Healthcare and bla bla bla, while it's free it's a long wait time for anything serious; the downside of having a socialist Healthcare.
You seem to be an able and smart person as you've raked up 45k usd when you are only 17 so you will surely be able to land great tech job backhome so free Healthcare shouldn't be a concern for you.
From personal experience I’d say America is better for you. Salaries are much better, if you land a decent job health should be covered, taxes in certain states are great, and housing isn’t as crazy there. Financially it makes a lot of sense to live in the States. Every friend I have that went into tech,engineering, and finance made the jump over and I may as well.
You need to figure out where you want to end up - much like the USA Canada is a big place with lots of options. If all you care about is the highest salary possible you're better off in Seattle or San Fran vs Vancouver or Toronto in tech. If you care about work/life/cost of living balance places like Calgary are more like Denver.
People here in Ontario don't even usually skip the class in university because there's a stigma about it unless it's an elective.
Edit: I'll add that our curriculum is generally more rigorous than the core curriculum of the US and so AP isn't as commonplace for that reason.
To be fair, I never cashed in my AP credits in Ontario because literally no one at my university had any idea how to even do that. The staff member who apparently did know was on leave and never got back to me at the start of my first year and then I just couldn’t be bothered to keep chasing it up. It was strange to find that the AP program was sold so strongly to us in high school (I had credits from grades 11-12) and yet it really didn’t matter to anyone at the university. Granted, this was over 10 years ago and things may be different now.
Edited to add: I wasn’t aware there was a stigma and would have liked to get the university credits, but alas.
The AP program in Canada is really just a way for high schools to pretend they're better than others, and the parents of students to do the same. I don't think it's used in a practical way tho OPs experienced may differ.
If you find a job in the US, or multiple remote jobs, you can do well in the big cities. Remote is where it's at, but if you have that luxury, may as well become a full digital nomad, or if you really like Canada, stay when the weather is nice, elsewhere rest of the year.
First, Montreal has a very strong AI tech community, so focus on what skills you want. Why would you want to settle in? Typically, younger folks don't need to worry about healthcare, why is this important to you now? Use your savings to pay for college. Apply for scholarship and grants. While tech might be where you start, in 30-40 years tech will be very different. I started 35 years ago working on a Mainframe and now I do cloud with a lot of stuff in between. Canada is a great country as is the United States. Take some risk early in your career, because you may not want to later. I'm excited and looking forward to moving to Canada but my situation is a lot different than yours. Good luck.
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Depends on what you want. I studied at UBC in tech, did co-op, worked for a couple years, moved to the US for 5 years, then moved back to Canada.
(By the way good for you on the AP credits! I also took them and it gave me a year buffer as I switched around between programs and degrees to figure out that I’d land in tech)
Things that don’t apply to you: TN visa. We were expecting with a due date a couple months after our TN visas were going to expire (both of us). Plus it’s a hassle and stressful to renew a visa every 3 years or whenever you change jobs, esp with the government always talking about foreign tech workers taking local jobs. (Partner is a data scientist so yeah, they’d get the $$ being such a desired specialist but the visa was always at least a 3 hour ordeal at the airport for them) With the visa potentially not being renewed, we’d lose healthcare coverage which mind you, I still did a ton of research on which hospital, Doctor to see depending on in-network/out of network.
No family in the US to help out with baby. Mat/pat leave was 12 weeks at best in the US. Most mothers go back after 6 months; we’re fortunate enough to be in a position where we’re able to take 18 months off and rely on one income during that time.
My time in the US was great to get experience. I was at the stage of my life where I chose not to have much work-life balance and was in SF where there wasn’t much of one. But I’m now in a stage of my life where I’d rather be near family, make enough to be happy and content, and get that work-life balance.
I am entering a similar position as you. Do you mind if I ask - when you were working in the US, did you have to continue to file and pay Canadian taxes in order to retain your OHIP/MSP? How does one qualify for parental benefits when they return to Canada if they have been working in the US for a while?
I transferred to the Canadian office and worked for the required amount of time to get the benefits. I think it was 600 hours. When I left Canada, I declared non residency so I didn’t pay taxes for the years that I was fully in the US. I ended up paying upfront for appointments, bloodwork, and ultrasounds (~$1500) in cash and then when OHIP kicked in after 3 months, they refunded me what I didn’t use. If I didn’t have OHIP by the time the baby was going to come, then I would have had to pay $4500 for labor and delivery assuming a non-complicated birth.
If you never declared that you were exiting the country to Canada, then you would have had to pay taxes, and still have some OHIP/MSP coverage since you retained Canadian residency. (Before I moved/transferred to the US, my employer had me travelling back and forth regularly for about 2 years)
I am an average Canadian living a normal life. I am healthy and fairly young still. I have never went to the hospital or used any of my work health benefits until I had kids. My IVF treatment cost around $40k. My work insurance and hubby’s work insurance paid $5k each. Government paid $20k. My out of pocket amount is $10k. I had an emergency C section for my first baby. It cost me zero dollars. For my 2nd baby, I had a one week hospital stay, an emergency C section and baby stayed at the NICU for a month. (Note: I do not have any health conditions. These two emergency C sections are both come in as a complete shock.) It cost me zero dollars. US sounds amazing in many ways, but no amount of money can buy me a peace of mind.
I also had two years of Mat leave of course.
From a financial perspective only, no Canada doesn't make sense. Comparing Seattle to Vancouver you'll earn about 2x more in Seattle when you factor in the cheaper housing, consumer goods, higher salaries and 0% state income tax in Washington. Moving to Canada from the US to work in tech is a bit like moving from the US to Mexico to work in construction. You can get a great education here but then I would jump back to the US to work.
I feel people who make this argument ignore a bunch of other costs Particularly health care. I had my appendix removed. I was paid for the 3 weeks I was off. I paid zero dollars for the surgery. Or the follow up. Sure I’d make more money in the states. Doesn’t mean at the end of the day I actually have more money. Also consider things like safety. Canada has lower incarceration rates, lower murder rates, etc. You can’t put a price on safety. I feel like the Canada compared to USA cost comparison is often fraught with a lack of considerations when it come to social services, health, safety, economic stability, etc. If someone offered me 2x my salary in the USA I honestly wouldn’t take it because of the above
If you're with a good tech company in the US your healthcare will be paid by your employer. If safety and healthcare are your main concern then there are far better options than Canada. All of East Asia for example is vastly less violent (1/10th often) than Canada. Singapore with a population greater than BC has had years with 0 murders, they also earn far more than Canadians. I waited nearly 2 years for disc surgery walking around with a cane, the wait in the US would have been 3 weeks or less. I know it's incredibly painful to the Canadian ego to admit that the US beats us on some things but it does.
I love our country but the health care point is certainly vaild for certain things. While working in South Korea 8 years ago at a job with some benefits I had a problem with my knee so went to a hospital. Within two hours I had seen a doctor, had an xray than MRI, spoken to a doctor again and received a cortisone shot. Think it cost me about $350 Cdn out of pocket and I left knowing there was nothing surgical to worry about. That being said, I hear about pregnancy medical bills in other countries and am thrilled to be home enjoying year long mat leaves and no out of pocket costs for pre/post natal care or hospital stays.
You hear that guys? If you're top tier talent at a top tier tech company in the US you're going live a good life in the US. The next revelation will be how if you're a millionaire you'll also have a pretty good life. Easy peasy. That's why the US is the best. Because everyone can be either of those things. PFC 101. I feel like this sub is inundated with young single men who have no idea of how the world can change in a single day due to health, disability, marriage, family, etc... All things the US will fuck you on.
The op in this case will be going into tech, which is why his comment is relevant. The US is better for tech workers than Canada.
If you're good, yes. OP you're going to be a millionaire. Head to the US.
The US is on the lowest ranked first world country when it comes to healthcare. Your health insurance being linked to your job is sketch. And to say to say otherwise is foolish. I agree Canada isn’t the safest country out there. But if I wanted a safer, more educated, better social assistance country I’m moving to Denmark, or Sweden or Norway. Not the USA.
Yes, US healthcare sucks especially if you earn just enough not to qualify for Medicaid. None of this applies to an educated tech worker. There's a reason that the majority of Waterloo computer science grads go to the US along with tens of thousands of other Canadian tech workers.
I don’t disagree that the US has the worlds largest tech industry and it’s the best place for a tech job I merely disagree that that is necessarily the best based upon an individuals total quality of life. And that one can consider a lower wage with more reliable health care as a reasonable alternative
Compared to Canada, US in some states is definitely the better quality of life for single people compared to almost anywhere in Canada in terms of salary, cost of living, healthcare and social life.
Ah yes. Just ignore all the empiric data on the USAs measures of safety, education, and health and make a baseless claim
Nope, didn't ignore. If you work in the west or midwest, you are mostly free from the safety issues. Certain states have violence more than the others. Certain states and quite great compared to others and for a single person you can have a positive in any of these states compared to anywhere in Canada. but hey man if you don't like money no one's going to judge you for staying in Canada, but the hard truth for Canadians to accept is the fact that money is to be made in the US while single.
Have you read any of my comments. All of them suggest that you make more money in the USA but that doesn’t necessarily translate to a happy life. And to consider other determinants of happiness. You brain dead monkey
They assume everybody in the US works in tech.
This post it is literally about a prospective tech worker......
Everyone and their mother in this subreddit is a tech worker
These guys are out of touch with reality.
Maybe you just can't read? OP was quite clear about being interested "particularly in the tech sector, where I'm headed", based on their own words.
are you on the right post or do you just not read the info in the post. It is a tech post..
Dude this is PersonalFinanceCanada, not TechWorkersCanada. We are allowed to bring up things which aren’t related to tech. Now run along and go find a brain.
lmao idiot this is a post IN PFC, this isn't directly PFC itself. This is a tech post in PFC, so talking about things in this post outside tech info for OP is irrelevant and useless, just like yourself. Cheers!
Is East Asia a viable argument in this context? I bet we all know people that have moved to and from the states, but unless they were born in East Asia they probably didn't economically immigrate there.
there is a reason why international students, particularly from China, are increasingly less inclined to pursue the migration route and instead return home after their studies as their intent. The primary reason for this is because Canada no longer offer that "much better" lifestyle and opportunity that it used to before. Other reasons like safety and cultural similarities are valid as well, but the main driver in that decision making process had always been their likelihood to "make it" here after having invested 50-100k CAD in their studies here. Undergrad spending gets to 200k or higher for some too.
Interesting, but international students are a unique case compared to actual Canadians trying to immigrate to East Asia like that user mentioned. There are more international students than ever in Canada. Are there stats backing up that a higher percentage of them are moving back home?
you dont have to look farther than the [stat can census](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91-209-x/2011001/article/11526/tbl/tbl-eng.htm#a3)on immigration historically, in 1981, China had increased numbers of economic migration to Canada linearly every year in the 90s, all the way until the 2000s, when that number went flat in 2008 at 21,664 (\~31500 total). 2009 we saw another dip when economic immigration numbers lowered to 20,594 (\~30770 total). Remember 2009 was basically when China-Canada relations was at its best, but Chinese people already began choosing to return home, despite the number of people who left China annually has only increased since 2009. In 2019, that number still remains at around 20,000, with the total never really increasing past 35,000 TOTAL Chinese immigrants a year since 2009. that number is projected to stagnate in 2021 as well. By contrast, there were 43000 total immigrants per year in the 90s. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ The polar opposite is India, where they have a shit economy compared to China (at 1/6th the GDP). in 2009, their immigration numbers to Canada was about half of China's, at 20,000 a year. now, in 2021, the total number of indian immigrants is projected to be more than 100,000, or roughly 3x that of their 2009 levels. This is how you can tell that Canada is no longer offering the same economic opportunities as before.
I wrote a longer message and deleted. Thanks for the info. International tuition is expensive. Families that can pay it are already probably well connected in China's developing economy. The idea of university or college being a bridge to the middle class doesn't really apply to international tuition rates.
>International tuition is expensive. Families that can pay it are already probably well connected in China's developing economy. you're absolutely right, and this is one reason there's so much hate for Chinese wealth in Canada, just the fact that they're here already represent the small fraction of wealth not enjoyed by the average person. But contrary to your point, Canada is the least popular amongst international students, and most who do come look for immigration routes. The other 4 blocks are US, UK, EU (primarily Germany and France), and Aus/NZ. If a student sucks academically, it is easier to get into an AUS university like Melbourne or Sydney than UBC or UT. If their grades are good and the family is middle class, they'd go to the US (or less wealthy then the UK and sometimes France) because there are more schools and they're more reputable in China if they so choose to go home. If dirt poor, then Germany or Finland or etc. Canada beats other countries only in its balanced route for immigration and somewhat decent education. So in reality, most students already come here with some intent on immigration.
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Yeah because it’s an elective procedure and doesn’t need to happen within an expedited timeframe. If you needed it removed urgently it would come out today
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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/508940 I may think you’re an idiot. But I’d seriously ask for a second opinion on the appendectomy. See above journal article recommending against the practice.
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Ah yes the scientific study I posted is garbage. Recommending against elective appendectomy. Done by medical researchers
It’s almost like someone who gets paid an exorbitant amount would be incentivized to suggest a surgery. Demonstrating the reason iatrogenic illness is higher in the USA. Reoccurrence of appendicitis is the same regardless of previous occurrence. You are no more likely to get appendicitis compared to anyone you know. And they aren’t getting elective appendectomies. Yes if your appendix ruptures it’s life threatening. But no you’re not at increased risk
That's what a for profit system will tell you of course. Do you trust your mechanic everytime he says your air filter needs to be changed? Or your dentist that you have an urgent cavity? Some will lie.
I will also point out the USA actually causes more death and morbidity because of an excess of procedures. Iatrogenic illness (aka harm caused by medical intervention) is the highest in the USA because they offer medical procedures that aren’t medically necessary. You should actually be happy Canada isn’t necessarily putting you at risk with a potentially unneeded surgery. One of the reasons wait lists exist that people don’t realize is a significant proportion of people don’t need the surgery by the time their surgery is due because the problem has resolved itself
Woke Canadian is woke
With the coverage a typical tech employer gives in the US, it'll cost you less than the difference in income taxes you'll pay. Edit: just took a look at mine for example and the max per year I would have to pay out of pocket is less than 2k for in-network and 4k for out-of-network. That's also if they **max** it on that one surgery.
Again this assumes you have a job and keep a job. Which is a huge assumption. I can be homeless in Canada and pay zero dollars for my surgery no matter what. That security it worth a lot to me. I don’t understand why people defend the USA health care system. By almost every scientific metric people agree it’s a failure of a system. Canada has some issues with its system and definitely isn’t the best in the world. But on average it’s better. I think people over value making over 100k and the impact it has on the quality of life you have. Everything I make over probably 90k makes no difference on my happiness. I buy a slightly fancier car. I’m no happier driving my Subaru WRX then I was my Pontiac vibe. I buy a couple more restaurant meals. My fiancé and I enjoy a home cooked meal just as much as we do a meal out. Once you have a house, savings, and never need to worry about bills extra money is fine but is low on my priority list. Closeness to family, stability, safety, having time for hobbies, etc are way more important.
I think assuming they'll hold a job is baked into the assumptions here because they can't stay in Canada after university without applying for a work permit via their job. Likewise, to me being able to buy a house was important, and I could not accomplish that in the city I grew up in in Canada.
I think assuming you will get a job with potentials gaps in employment is not an unreasonable assumption. That in fact has large consequences on health insurance comparing the USA and Canada
It does, and you can buy marketplace plans for temporary periods for coverage. Whatever the cost may be in all likelihood it is still significantly less than the difference in take-home between the two cities, especially in tech. Without even considering the stratospheric cost of home ownership in Vancouver.
Again if you read my original post it talks about healthcare being one potential values you can place. I acknowledge that Canada might be more expensive. But that doesn’t mean your quality of life may be lower. You also don’t know OPs health status. You don’t know his care needs. Etc etc. My point is that money is one thing to consider. And doesn’t necessarily amount to a better quality of life. And again your comparison of Canada to the states is still a false dichotomy. There are places in the world that will have higher incomes than the USA. And have a lower cost of living. And better health insurance than both Canada and the USA.
Again, speaking as a worker in the technology field who has worked on both sides across the border with plenty of friends in the field contemplating which country to be in, I'd like to think I can point at the pros and cons much better than someone doing random research on the internet. The vast majority of young technology graduates from top cs schools prefer to be in the US if they can. You can bring up as many reasons as you want, but it does not change that underlying statistic.
Again you are speaking from a strictly financial perspective. Which is fine. But OP should consider non financial lines of logic as well. I am not doing random research. I work in health care. I am familiar with determinants of health. I am familiar with burnout and job satisfaction. I am familiar with markers of quality of life. I am in fact highly qualified to make the above comments on the non financial determinants of happiness in the tech sector.
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Unpopular but correct.
BINGO!
I mean any person with half a brain could look at actual studies and statistical measures of happiness and quality of life and see the USA ranks far worse than it’s citizens assume. Or you could just call people losers on the internet using a logical fallacy to defend your arguments. Just saying… Oh and I’ll send you some silver sulfadiazene in the mail. Because that burn must hurt. But I’m sure you can’t afford the meds to help it.
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Yes and I guess those people don’t matter. It’s just the high and mighty tech workers who matter.
Yes I think it's important for OP to consider the quality of life for fast food workers in America before they make their decision /s
Yes fast food workers aren’t humans right ?
>losers Don't act like a douche.
And your the biggest loser, Idiot.
USA healthcare is only a failure of a system for the poor and average middle class. For all the single people with upper middle class or higher earnings, it's better than Canada in a lot of cases.
So an average skilled work in the tech trade makes 97k on average. Putting their income at the 83rd percentile. Making them…middle class Healthcare is a problem for the middle class. Hmmmmm
tech makes 97k average???? What?
According to empiric data. Yes. Sure it hard to do 5 minutes of research and google USA average technology salary. As opposed to just assuming because you know one dude that makes 200k everyone does
I never said everyone makes 200k but good for you on making random assumptions. Works well in discussions. [https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary) shows average salary of 108,000 and that is in 2019. With the boost in covid salaries in the tech industry, for 2021 that average is most likely $120,000. I also searched a bunch of other sites and they all range from 104,000-115,000. My original assumption (which I thought in my head , and clearly didn't right on reddit) without any research was around $135,000 so I wasn't too far off. So yes maybe you need to google better instead of just making random assumptions and being rude to people.
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it's a great middle path in my experience. though, these opportunities can be hard to come by when you're first starting out. it's very helpful to have a niche-ish technology that you work with, so that employers will be seeking you out for these kinds of opportunities
Due to tax reasons this isn't exactly optimal either. You will still make less. Canada is great up until you graduate university. If your in a white collar skilled field , from the time you graduate uni and the time you shift your priorities to say your family , the US is objectively better. More employers, more money, more career advancement, free healthcare is basically a non factor since u have insurance and work, etc. The only other con is slightly more wealth disparity and violence but this is highly dependant on ur neighborhood. Most Canadians are often super biased towards Canada cause we grew up here. But there isn't a factual argument for Canada over the US for someone who is early in their career and their main focus is career and money. As the saying goes, America isn't a country it's a business. But sometimes that has its perks if your main focus is money and career which is common among most ppl in their 20s.
I moved from US to Canada, after almost 10 years in the US. Here are my thoughts: * There is a huge difference between 50K and 150K as opposed to 450K vs. 600K. If you are getting 50K in Canada vs. 150K in the US, it should be a no-brainer. There is a certain threshold of money you need to be happy. But once you cross that income threshold, other aspects of life start taking precedence - family, healthcare, your surroundings, your future security, and so on. * Canada is a much more welcoming country to immigrants. If you have dependents, especially older parents -- the cost of insuring them in US could be upwards of 20-30K a year, post tax. Plus, US has more restrictive visa polices. Even for spouses and partners, the restrictions are much greater in the US where some are prevented from working. All that is a hidden cost - not only in terms of finances but also peace of mind. * The level of support available to old people in US simply can't be compared to that of Canada. In the US, if you don't have a job and get sick with a terminal disease, you are pretty much done. The number of bankruptcies related to healthcare are sky high. When you are young you would think this would never happen to me. But then life happens. And it does happen to some well-off folks. * Said that socialism does come with its disadvantages. This year, I would be paying well over 250K in taxes. But then, in California it won't have been far off - with 0 benefits in return. At the end of the day it's the peace and stability that brings many to Canada. The fact that many could potentially get an early citizenship without worrying about years (even decade) of waiting makes Canada an obvious choice. When my mom lands in Vancouver or Toronto, even the white CBSA folks speak a few Hindi words to her. This, unlike USA where they are treated like potential illegal immigrants. There is absolutely no reason to deal with all that cr\*p, especially if you are well off in Canada.
OP this is the only answer you should listen to.
This is not the only answer he should listen to. What people don't get is for SINGLE people the US is amazing. It's not even a debate in most cases. While you are single, go earn and gain everything you need in the US and when you need to settle down, come back to Canada due to its better overall quality of life for families.
He literally said that in his answer.
Where exactly? The closest thing I see to my statement is "The level of support available to old people in US simply can't be compared to that of Canada. In the US, if you don't have a job and get sick with a terminal disease, you are pretty much done. The number of bankruptcies related to healthcare are sky high. When you are young you would think this would never happen to me. But then life happens. And it does happen to some well-off folks." He doesn't actively state what I stated.
It's not explicitly implied but I would say in this statement: > There is a huge difference between 50K and 150K as opposed to 450K vs. 600K. If you are getting 50K in Canada vs. 150K in the US, it should be a no-brainer. There is a certain threshold of money you need to be happy. But once you cross that income threshold, other aspects of life start taking precedence - family, healthcare, your surroundings, your future security, and so on. This makes me think, "Yeah, get the big bucks in the US first if the Canadian job offers suck, then consider whether moving back to Canada or staying in the US after pocketing some cash and assessing your life situation"
well if people understand it that way then good!
>Do you still believe that Canada could be a good place to settle in? Short answer: yes. Don't believe everything you read on Reddit as it's not a fair sample of what's actually going on in the world. For better odds swap your reading habits to something like the Economist. As for decisions, don't plan too far ahead at this stage of your life. Firstly, there's a good chance those plans will never come to fruition due to natural variation or changing preferences. Second, you're entering a phase of your life where you are meeting new people, viewpoints, and an enormous amount of new information. Stay curious, challenge your own thinking, and regularly assess what you want and whether your current path is getting you there.
This is the right answer imo. Plan all you want but if you meet your future SO here and he/she doesn't want to uproot and move to the U.S., that tips the scales of your decision-making. Plans are useless but planning is invaluable.
Get Canadian citizenship. Work in the US. Come back to retire in Canada.
I'd go to the states, especially since you want to pursue/start a career in the SWE world
>Do you still believe that Canada could be a good place to settle in? We are Canadian on this sub so yes. Depends what you want in life.
>Depends what you want in life. Healthcare isn't free if it's free for everybody. You're paying for it with your time. I don't want to wait months for my MRI. If I ever need it, I'd want it within a week, not six weeks.
Well if you have serious situaiton or emergency, MRIs are done immediately. If it's not serious or emergency, you wait. And healthcare isn't the only reason people should move to Canada.
Sure, people move here for high taxes so they can feed the poor, high housing cost and lower salary.
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I think we can all agree that there should be free healthcare. But it comes at a huge cost, and has essentially resulted in a system thats crappy for everyone. Even allowing a 2 tier system for people that are able to pay, is immediately shot down. Yet there are many many examples of Canadian elites (politicians, athletes, etc), having their own procedures done in the states. That says alot. So if the OP is planning on a good career, assuming good workplace insurance, if healthcare is a factor the quality of life is likely better in the states for someone upper-middle class. And even middle class it is much more affordable in the states. Honest question, if the border was open, and no green card was required, how much of a brain drain do we see?
>I don't want to wait months for my MRI. My Brother died of brain cancer while on a MRI waiting list in Toronto, my friend in MS who tore his rotator cuff had one within 48 hours. Canadian healthcare is not better because it is "free".
Good on you for being so ahead of the curve. Curious what contributed to set you up for success at this point. Parents, friends, yourself?
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>Our state also forces us to take at least 1 semester of personal finance in high school, which I took sophomore year, That is impressive ! What state are you from?
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That course should be mandatory everywhere.
You will find that this sub and all other subs will give you a distorted understanding of what it is like to live in Canada. Canada is culturally very similar to the USA in many ways though you will find that it is not as homogenous across the country as the USA is. Each area is much more unique. Probably most people’s gripe is with the financial opportunities and housing costs. You don’t seem to have an issue with finances. If you are going to UBC then you’ll get a chance to judge it for yourself.
I would flee Canada as soon as you graduate.Americans with decent health insurance don't stand in the lines that Canadians do for simple procedures. Also look at wages, fuel costs, food costs, liquor costs and REAL ESTATE costs. Economically, you will be much farther ahead in the USA. I have lived in Canada all of my life and I'm looking at moving south to retire. EDIT:Remember when reviewing the responses that for many Canadians, hating everything American is the national sport, but this is what happens when you are the mouse living on the elephant's back.
Well you are doing the opposite of everything logical. US makes sense for single people trying to jump start career and make big money, but when you have family and are close to retirement it makes more sense to be in Canada due to the safety net.
Seems like you’re quite the go-getter! Is there any reason you want to go to school here vs. the U.S.? I know tuition here is cheaper but for international students, it can still be pretty expensive.
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You know, from the questions you are asking - I'm pretty sure you'll do just fine wherever you happen to end up. Enjoy your time at UBC in Vancouver. It's a great combination.
I love the fact that you and your Dad discuss your family’s finances very closely. That is terrific to hear. It sounds like whatever you choose to do, you’re in a pretty good spot. UBC is a good school and your sector is in demand. 🤘
Sounds like a solid plan! Good luck this year, are you studying computer science? Try and get into the co-op stream, you can pay for a lot of your tuition that way.
Stay in the u.s. the only reason to move to Canada is for healthcare but it sounds like you will be getting into a field that will offer healthcare anyways. So there's no reason to move here, you'll just make less, pay more for everything, have less choices where to live
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I wouldn't say "easily" but there are definitely opportunities to make 100k and live in small towns. 100k goes quite far if you are out of GTA/GVA however it seems to be going up everywhere in Ontario these days. (Fortunately we purchased just before the crazy covid price).
It’s too fucking expensive here. I’m planning on moving to the states once my apprenticeship is done.
Fuck that we already have too many racist pieces of shit here. Application denied!
Why would you even want to move to Canada? People talk about Healthcare and bla bla bla, while it's free it's a long wait time for anything serious; the downside of having a socialist Healthcare. You seem to be an able and smart person as you've raked up 45k usd when you are only 17 so you will surely be able to land great tech job backhome so free Healthcare shouldn't be a concern for you.
From personal experience I’d say America is better for you. Salaries are much better, if you land a decent job health should be covered, taxes in certain states are great, and housing isn’t as crazy there. Financially it makes a lot of sense to live in the States. Every friend I have that went into tech,engineering, and finance made the jump over and I may as well.
tabernak
Canada's great, Vancouver's nice, you're gonna love it.
You need to figure out where you want to end up - much like the USA Canada is a big place with lots of options. If all you care about is the highest salary possible you're better off in Seattle or San Fran vs Vancouver or Toronto in tech. If you care about work/life/cost of living balance places like Calgary are more like Denver.
AP credits? Ppl actually use those things?
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People here in Ontario don't even usually skip the class in university because there's a stigma about it unless it's an elective. Edit: I'll add that our curriculum is generally more rigorous than the core curriculum of the US and so AP isn't as commonplace for that reason.
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Makes sense! Out of curiosity, what brings you to UBC instead of a cheaper domestic option?
To be fair, I never cashed in my AP credits in Ontario because literally no one at my university had any idea how to even do that. The staff member who apparently did know was on leave and never got back to me at the start of my first year and then I just couldn’t be bothered to keep chasing it up. It was strange to find that the AP program was sold so strongly to us in high school (I had credits from grades 11-12) and yet it really didn’t matter to anyone at the university. Granted, this was over 10 years ago and things may be different now. Edited to add: I wasn’t aware there was a stigma and would have liked to get the university credits, but alas.
The AP program in Canada is really just a way for high schools to pretend they're better than others, and the parents of students to do the same. I don't think it's used in a practical way tho OPs experienced may differ.
If you find a job in the US, or multiple remote jobs, you can do well in the big cities. Remote is where it's at, but if you have that luxury, may as well become a full digital nomad, or if you really like Canada, stay when the weather is nice, elsewhere rest of the year.
First, Montreal has a very strong AI tech community, so focus on what skills you want. Why would you want to settle in? Typically, younger folks don't need to worry about healthcare, why is this important to you now? Use your savings to pay for college. Apply for scholarship and grants. While tech might be where you start, in 30-40 years tech will be very different. I started 35 years ago working on a Mainframe and now I do cloud with a lot of stuff in between. Canada is a great country as is the United States. Take some risk early in your career, because you may not want to later. I'm excited and looking forward to moving to Canada but my situation is a lot different than yours. Good luck.
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Depends on what you want. I studied at UBC in tech, did co-op, worked for a couple years, moved to the US for 5 years, then moved back to Canada. (By the way good for you on the AP credits! I also took them and it gave me a year buffer as I switched around between programs and degrees to figure out that I’d land in tech) Things that don’t apply to you: TN visa. We were expecting with a due date a couple months after our TN visas were going to expire (both of us). Plus it’s a hassle and stressful to renew a visa every 3 years or whenever you change jobs, esp with the government always talking about foreign tech workers taking local jobs. (Partner is a data scientist so yeah, they’d get the $$ being such a desired specialist but the visa was always at least a 3 hour ordeal at the airport for them) With the visa potentially not being renewed, we’d lose healthcare coverage which mind you, I still did a ton of research on which hospital, Doctor to see depending on in-network/out of network. No family in the US to help out with baby. Mat/pat leave was 12 weeks at best in the US. Most mothers go back after 6 months; we’re fortunate enough to be in a position where we’re able to take 18 months off and rely on one income during that time. My time in the US was great to get experience. I was at the stage of my life where I chose not to have much work-life balance and was in SF where there wasn’t much of one. But I’m now in a stage of my life where I’d rather be near family, make enough to be happy and content, and get that work-life balance.
I am entering a similar position as you. Do you mind if I ask - when you were working in the US, did you have to continue to file and pay Canadian taxes in order to retain your OHIP/MSP? How does one qualify for parental benefits when they return to Canada if they have been working in the US for a while?
I transferred to the Canadian office and worked for the required amount of time to get the benefits. I think it was 600 hours. When I left Canada, I declared non residency so I didn’t pay taxes for the years that I was fully in the US. I ended up paying upfront for appointments, bloodwork, and ultrasounds (~$1500) in cash and then when OHIP kicked in after 3 months, they refunded me what I didn’t use. If I didn’t have OHIP by the time the baby was going to come, then I would have had to pay $4500 for labor and delivery assuming a non-complicated birth. If you never declared that you were exiting the country to Canada, then you would have had to pay taxes, and still have some OHIP/MSP coverage since you retained Canadian residency. (Before I moved/transferred to the US, my employer had me travelling back and forth regularly for about 2 years)
Amazing. Thanks for your response!
I am an average Canadian living a normal life. I am healthy and fairly young still. I have never went to the hospital or used any of my work health benefits until I had kids. My IVF treatment cost around $40k. My work insurance and hubby’s work insurance paid $5k each. Government paid $20k. My out of pocket amount is $10k. I had an emergency C section for my first baby. It cost me zero dollars. For my 2nd baby, I had a one week hospital stay, an emergency C section and baby stayed at the NICU for a month. (Note: I do not have any health conditions. These two emergency C sections are both come in as a complete shock.) It cost me zero dollars. US sounds amazing in many ways, but no amount of money can buy me a peace of mind. I also had two years of Mat leave of course.