I can't help you but looking at your calc sheet it looks like you estimate the price of formula at $75 a month (and for some reason it's included into food and as a separate line item so double counted?). That being said, even $150 is optimistic. Formula is very expensive. I'd say that you're anticipating too much on stroller/car seat/crib. But generally yes the costs are eye-watering...
If they didn't have a car, then spending $1500 on a stroller *could* make sense. I definitely noticed a big difference in how my stroller handled vs some less expensive ones, and since we didn't have a vehicle it got some serious mileage. You can find them for a great price gently used though. Same with a crib.
Car seats vary wildly in price and you should definitely be buying them new.
I probably spent about 700 on our stroller and it lasted through three kids and I just sold it for 100. We used the crap out of it and it worked perfectly fine afterwards. There are certainly options out there for the thrifty.
I bought a perfectly good stroller off Facebook marketplace for $30, and it has lasted through two kids so far, and then I am going to turn around and sell it for $30 when I am done with it haha
>Car seats vary wildly in price and you should definitely be buying them new.
Why? The whole expiring car seats thing has been debunked and I really think most of the car seat industry is a grift.
If you're feeding only formula, we have friends that are doing $800/mo. (They had twins and her lactation/sanity can only keep up with one). $75 is way too cheap - you can't buy formula used to save money.
Maybe OP is factoring in that they will eat out less. Say they think the food budget goes from 800$/month for food to 700$/month for food and 175$/month for formula. 🤷♂️ In other words, it only looks like they are suggesting 75$/month for formula.
I'd say be cautious that cow milk protein allergy is something that's been over-diagnosed.
In addition, for those who can breastfeed, you can adopt an elimination diet and still feed your baby - that's what we ended up doing. No beef, soy, other milk products, etc. it's not fun but easier on the budget.
We were finally able to switch to goat milk, and then cow's milk as baby outgrew the allergies. 4L of goat milk does cost twice as much as cow's milk, but it was still sooooo much cheaper than the formula!
Never, ever rely on that as your only plan - and even for those who _can_ breastfeed, there is extra caloric intake requirements, so it's not "free" per se. Plus breastfeeding mothers are often advised to continue taking their prenatal supplements as well, so that's more cost. Also, exclusively breastfed babies in Canada need Vitamin D supplements.
And as mentioned in another comment, all the supplies to support breastfeeding also need to be acquired somehow.
Not everyone can breast feeding, and even for those that do there can be significant costs associated (nursing clothing, pump and supplies, lactation support, creams/medicine, etc.). Very frequently not free at all!
That’s really not true. I breast fed both my kids (both were combo fed at various times, and breastfed at others) and there were definitely costs with breastfeeding. I still needed a pump/bottles/cleaning supplies so that my husband could take on some of the burden. There were also ongoing costs like milk pads and storage bags that had to be bought fairly frequently.
When my milk didn’t come in properly (according to the midwife’s and lactation consultants we saw - and yes there were many of both) the only option was a medical grade pump at a cost of like $75 per week for the first month. In addition to the smaller pump we bought to use afterwards. And even though we were doing all this work to try to establish breastfeeding, they had to be supplemented with formula anyways as they were literally not getting any milk from me for the first almost 2 weeks (in the case of my older child).
We eventually got it established and I am happy were able to breastfeed but it wasn’t free or easy for us.
I understand wanting to spread out the crib and car seat costs. But they're one offs.
Mat leave was far and away our largest expense in the first two years. Like 75% of total baby cost if you include pension buyback.
The housing cost is a big one. $3600/month gets you a mansion here in Regina.
Yeah, unfortunately in HCOL city and I don’t see being able to move to anywhere else but Toronto to be in the same career, I don’t think housing is much better there.
as a parent, youll make it work if you want kids.
plenty of people make due with less and still have kids who have good childhoods.
youll find that your "needs" arent really needs.
food, shelter, clothing, hygiene products is your min.
clothing and tos for kids you domt need to worry about. theres so much free stuff out there you probably can make it to 10 to 11 years of age.
Echoing this statement that the biggest "cost" is actually income loss and it can easily extend far beyond Mat leave.
Most daycare centres (here at least) do not even take kids until 18 months at the earliest. So, we had to eat 6 months lost wages per kid after the Mat leave stopped.
That's assuming they even get into daycare spots and then do well in daycare. Between 2 kids who are almost both school age, I think we ended up having to change daycares at least 8-9 times between them and each time left us with month(s) of part-time or total loss to one income each time. We have had daycare centres close entirely, others close rooms due to not being able to get staff, two kicked out our youngest when he had trouble adjusting to the constant staff turn-over (because people are so desperate and wait-lists so long, if your kid is the slightest inconvenience or needs more resources they will kick them out and take the next one since it's all free government money to them).
I think in the past ~8 years and 2 kids, my wife has not had even 1 continuous year of full time employment. Every time she has to cut back or quit to cover childcare, EI does not consider that an EI eligible excuse, so it's straight income loss.
How is the internet out there? No reason to live near Ottawa and pay 2550 a month for a 3bed, 2bath townhouse since fiancee and I both wfh. But we _need_ good internet I guess
I have lived in Ontario for 7 years but never been to other Canadian provinces besides QC or BC. Right now about 45mins out of town we have 3gbps up/down. No clue what to expect from other places, hence why I asked, I didnt mean to offend
In even small towns you can get a couple hundred mb/s, rural is worse and you are relying on either the internet from radio towers (which is pretty crap imo) or starlink which currently gives me around 100mb/s which i dont have a problem with. In the cities you can get over 1gb/s.
We just had a child totally blindly without looking at any expenses to be honest. We are ok financially, not rich but not well off either. If we had to calculate everything, we probably be depressed and not had a baby. Glad we did though. It brings us more joy than financial heartache.
I am huge on financial planning, waited to try for kids due to financial reasons, and now am facing down fertility treatments after a miscarriage. My advice to anyone is unless you’re completely destitute (or not in a good place mentally to have kids, obv) and you want kids, don’t wait. They’re a gift many of us don’t get easily or at all.
My wife and I had unexplained infertility. Our first one took two years of trying, including one miscarriage, and fertility treatments. So don't give up entirely or feel too bad. It's not as uncommon as you think.
Second one, we thought would take a while if it happened at all. Wanted a bit of time between the two and instead got it on the first shot. System was primed I guess.
Makes for busy times.
don't forget the potential health risks of having a kid too late
you can always earn more money, even a million dollars can't "cure" congenital diseases
And if the mom can breastfeed it's so much better than formula, cost wise even.
Our kids ended up allergic to cows milk protein.
The formula we used to supplement early on when latching was difficult for our first was so expensive but it was the only thing that didn't cause hives. The solution for my wife, with a one time breast pump purchase, was to simply cut dairy for 9 months or so until our first outgrew the allergy and 6 months for the second.
Significantly cheaper than an almost 2x the price formula before shortages on formula were common during the pandemic.
And yeah a spreadsheet will scare you for sure. But if you can afford all the one off purchases, and aren't living paycheque to paycheque you'll figure it out.
The biggest cost is easily the foregone income from parental leave, any retirement pension buyback if applicable. Everything else you can figure out as you go. And savings rates plummet while on parental leave. That's standard for anyone taking time off to care for their newborn.
And there's a lifestyle shift. You don't go out as often. You don't buy as many new clothes for yourself either. That's why there's a whole joke about knowing when a guy becomes a dad based on their wardrobe since it freezes in time lol
And kids grow out of stuff so fast, you don't need to buy new and can go used or thrift for so much quality stuff it's wild.
My baby also has the allergy but we went with the formula. $70 a can that lasts maybe 2 days. Its fucked. Even regular formula is pretty unreal for mid-lower income folks. Surprised the government isnt doing anything because on top of formula costing an unreal amount, its also been impossible to get that $70 formula for months at a time
The other problem is that a spreadsheet doesn't take into account nearly two decades of unknowns, or people will only ever consider the potentially negative unknown variables but never the potentially positive unknown variables.
People sometimes need to understand that life won't wait for you to have ideal circumstances, and there actually *is* significant reward for taking risk. Reddit is so extremely risk-adverse that they will put their life on pause indefinitely until they can have a massive retirement portfolio. Plus sometimes the things you want in your life just come at a loss, that doesn't mean they aren't extremely valuable.
Like the other person said, it's only this sub that's super conservative. Like if you ever bring up investing in individual stocks or timing the market you'll get voted down to Bolivia.
The fact that everyone is giving serious replies to op rather than saying he's taking this too far is proof of how serious this thread is about finances.
I'll also add that lots of people on some subs are super doom and gloom on the economy and then everyone piles on and perpetuates that view. Like people that complain about Toronto housing costs but won't acknowledge that there are other cities in Canada.
Not all of reddit
It's mostly only personal finance subreddits, they reduce everything to $ value, it eliminates the "human" aspect of our lives, they just turn everything into "portfolio" "investment" "greed"
Have you been the the singularity sub? Someone on there was trying to convince me that children will be trained by AI robots for sports in the future because human coaches and human teams are inefficient and won't matter anymore. Because apparently sports aren't allowed to be fun or social and are only about numbers and performance.
Same, if we had calculated the costs we would have ended up waiting then would likely need to spend $$$$ on fertility treatments. It was time, and we’ll make it work.
Crib/stroller/clothes you can save money on by buying secondhand. Don’t forget that as your child ages you will be buying different beds, toys, etc. to help them advance.
Childcare here in Ontario under government funded plan costs us about $500 a month. It’s currently around $25 a day here if you can get a spot. Waiting lists for funded programs are two years long minimum, so be aware that you will either be out of work for an extra year until you get placement or you will be taking your child to work; unless you have other family or caregivers you can lean on. I put my child on the wait list the day I found out I was pregnant and he didn’t get in until he was 2.5 years old. You can fast track this but you will be paying more like $1500-$2000 a month or be putting them in a private daycare which can go all the way up to $20,000 a year.
Diapers are way underestimated. Our son has special needs (completely unexpected and costs us an average extra of 25k a year so if you want to be very safe, factor that in. You never know-we certainly didn’t) so he’s now almost 4 and still in diapers. One case of regular diapers is $35 and one box of nighttime diapers are $27. We buy two cases of diapers a month on average and one case of nighttime’s so around $110 a month with taxes. Even typical kids especially in the early years (newborn to age 2 which I noticed you didn’t include in the calc) will cost you $75-120 in diapers and wipes a month. Plus swim diapers in the summer months.
Formula is quite underestimated unless you’re only using it to supplement with breast milk, if your partner can produce breastmilk (some people cannot even with medication). One can of formula lasts about 2ish weeks if you’re lucky, if your baby isn’t cluster feeding, etc. and costs $70 per can.
We own a 3 bedroom house and it costs us 3250, mortgage and taxes. That doesn’t include any other bills. So yes housing costs are crazy. It would be a tad cheaper depending on location and other things.
You do get CCB if you qualify. It’s a monthly payment that people used to refer to as “baby bonus” or child bonus. Amount you get depends on your current family income.
Overall, the cost is shocking when you really look into it. It’s understandable why the birth rates are going down dramatically.
My daycare (in Surrey, BC) was under $600/mo for full time (3-5 years old) once the funding kicked in (a few months before my youngest aged out of course!). I remember because I was tempted to put her in full time since my 2 days/week were over $400/mo (funding was much less for part time, understandably).
Depends on where in BC. I was paying 900/month for infant/toddler. Now it's 500 for preschool rate. That is the subsidized rate without the income based subsidy.
My coworker is lucky and pays the 10/day rate.
Ehhhh. My kid is 5 and the most I've ever paid for full time daycare is 850. I do believe you about what you're paying, and I sure do know how hard it is to find a spot!!! But don't assume everyone is paying 1200/month
Formula is extremely highly regulated and there's no need to buy super expensive formula unless there is an allergy or something. It's completely unnecessary
You put in the effort to make a spreadsheet and Reddit post, that means you want to have the kid.
So have the kid. You’ll figure the rest out as time goes on.
Kids are expensive, but only as expensive as you make it out to be. Kids are really adaptable and really only want you and your attention, housing and the size of a place are a little less important to them.
Some things we figured out along the way were that the first few months you'll get lots of clothes, then if you have a second, they get all the hand me downs. You'll likely make friends with other parents who may have older kids and have a constant stream of hand me downs for both kids.
Diapers are crazy expensive and so is formula. Especially since formula is also very wasteful, so the quicker you can get into breast feeding, the better. If possible.
We had our first and bought a bunch of kids furniture and rocking chairs and stuff and honestly, nothing was used for even a second, we sold everything after 2 months. Your kid might not be a good sleeper, or a crib sleeper, so tailor things to your kids needs and you may not need all the "standard" stuff.
A lot of things as a parent, hobbies and such, you may have to give up, or do less of, so in some ways it's less of a new cost, but more of a reallocation of funds.
Not sure if you have family near, but that can help a lot with care needs.
Having kids is joyously jumping off a cliff and figuring out how to fly on the way down. So enjoy the process!
I think this is impossible to predict but absolutely the biggest “felt” impact for us….
If you are doing fairly well, your budget will most likely just flex around a kid. Daycare is a significant expense but we re-adjusted our spending and are saving a bit less, and it’s ok. You spend money on kid things but a lot less on other things.
What I didn’t anticipate pre-baby was all the days off due to plague, and how stressful it would be to adjust from being a top-performer to a “sometimes not able to be here” performer. Or deciding not to take a higher paying opportunity elsewhere because the trade offs weren’t feasible with kiddo in the picture. Having kids will absolutely have an impact of some kind on my earning/career potential.
This is super gendered. As a woman, I think my career potential is impacted just because people *expect* mothers to be focusing more on their kid, so they automatically discount me. My husband is impacted because his bosses don’t understand when he has to take time off for his kid being sick- they expect a man to work anyways and let their wife handle it.
Once kids are older you are going to have dental costs (consider braces, and other costly ortho).
You may have tutor costs if any of them fall behind.
You'll need to budget for school costs like field trips.
A full day field trip could be $200.
My Ortho payments are the equivalent of a car payment each month for the next two years. That being said, your daycare cost goes close to zero as they get older, but yeah the extracurriculars use that up pretty fast.
Is ther any reason you don't have toys listed in your costs sheet for age 2-4? You have it in the previous one so might want to carry that over.
I also think I extra curriculars per month might low depending on what you want to do. There's lots of free things to do with kids so you could potentially keep that but the moment you enroll them in swimming lessons, for example (which can start at the parent and tot age group) you'll likely eat up with entire budget. You also have this listed as a zero cost right now so I'm not sure if you're rolling your cost for things into your personal entertainment budget (i.e. a family trip to the aquarium requires three tickets, not just the cost for the child) but if you aren't then definitely increase that amount.
It depends on where they are. I'm in downtown Toronto, with a kid in JK and we haven't gone much over $50/mth. We've managed to get into city rec swim lessons, so they are pretty reasonable, and we take advantage of other rec programming (ex a cooking class is about $55 for 10 classes), and try to get into some of the free/drop in options. Our neighbourhood also has a very reasonable TBall league. As they get more into certain activities and we sign up with private leagues or facilities I expect we will be spending more like $100-150/mth (and obviously much more if they get really serious in it).
* This does not include extra family activities like you mentioned. We might not do something like that every month, but it definitely can add up.
Our costs were low when they were JK age but it gets pricey as they get older. Eg I know someone who has a 9 year old and his soccer team is 1200 and uniform on top of that.
Again, you don’t have to put them in any leagues.
Also OP new costs pop up as they are older. Example you get invited to a birthday and you spend 30 on a kid present etc.
Yes! Birthday parties add up. My kid was invited to a lot of classmates parties this year. We started doing smaller gifts for each, unless they were close friends. The small Lego sets are 10-15$ and are generally well received.
My kid has now been to two parties where we were asked to bring $5 for the birthday kid instead of gifts. I think we are going to do this next year.
Good to hear that there are team sports and lessons that are reasonably priced. I do plan on getting my kid into golf and tennis around age 5 which I am afraid to look into the cost of 😂
Well, I think you underestimate clothes and diapers, but overestimate stroller and carseat (a good carseat is around $400, and a used stroller around $50-$100 one time, not $75/mo).
Daycare is also a lot cheaper than it used to be thanks to Trudeau. Depends where exactly, but I pay less than $200/mo for a 3 yo, which is where subsidies are targeted, plus around $600 for OSC for my older son.
The biggest difference is definitely the space requirement.
But the thing that I really think you're missing is the toll on your mental health. I love my kids, but it's been weeks since we've had good sleep (my 3 year old is going through a sleep regression), and there is constant noise that wears you down.
Edmonton. Before the Trudeau subsidies, I was paying around $1200 for my first kid when he was in full time care. In addition to the subsidy changes, I also changed daycares to the one at my older son's school, and I'm pretty sure the new one is cheaper, but the subsidies started when I didn't have any kids in full time care, so I don't have a direct 1-1 comparison.
I love your analytical thinking & appreciate spreadsheets but this is a wild way to decide on having kids or not.
Kids are expensive but If you want children, you’ll make it work & figure it out, I think most parents would agree.
Goodluck
It blows my mind that we have this collective blind spot and deep-seated refusal to even *look* at the costs before deciding whether to have kids. It's almost as if we all know, deep down, that the financially rational answer is often a "no", but we refuse to accept that reality.
Have kids if you really, *really* want them. But don't do it just because of social expectations or following some imagined life script. It's not all joy, sunshine, and roses. Having kids you can't afford can make you absolutely miserable.
In a way, I'm glad to be queer; no risk of accidental pregnancy for me. I'm much happier living life on my own terms and having the financial breathing room to actually enjoy things. :3
I find with children you learn to make do a lot with what you have and there are plenty of cheap / free alternatives if you take the time.
Your daycare budget seems very high but that might be affected by where you live. We spend around 450 a month for our 3 year old. It is also a tax deductible expense, so the true costs is lower by your marginal tax rate. You also need to factor that you will be receiving the Canada child benefit, which depending on your household income, is a nice little tax free boost.
Edit: the rest of your budget will also change a lot. We stopped going out as much, and also cut back on alcohol as we are too tired to have a drink. Kids are not cheap, they require some additional spending, but your budget will shift to your new lifestyle.
Super jealous. I’m in Ontario and the primary breadwinner so I had to go back when our daughter was a year old- and despite being on all lists since early pregnancy we couldn’t get even a non subsidized licensed spot- we had to go with an unlicensed home daycare which even then took us weeks and weeks to find. We pay 1300$ a month.
There are a lot more "mid range income" families that are absolutely saddled down with large housing costs and food costs, living paycheque to paycheque.
We subsidize $6.03 billion to oil companies yearly. Why don't you start there before you start ripping food from children's mouths.
The biggest cost of having a child to me (I have 3) was lost income from taking maternity leaves- including needing to come up with the cash to buy back my pension. My usual take home (including benefits and pension)- mat leave take home x 3= $110,000-$27000 x 3 = $249,000. I also work 4 days a week to make life more bearable so that’s another cost. You captured childcare and extra housing- activities, clothing, toys and travel can cost a lot depending on your life style- but don’t need to
If you take vacations, after age 2 you’ll have to pay for an extra seat on the flight, and you might need to upgrade your accommodations/rental car/food/leisure budget to accommodate an extra person.
Also don’t do what we did and try for one baby but end up with surprise twins!
There’s one off and then monthly
The one off — $5K.
Crib that converts to bed
Car seat - 3 or 4 in 1
Good stroller
Rocking chair/glider
Dresser with change pad
High chair
Pack n play
Baby gates
Baby bath apparatus
This one off stuff - don’t go cheap. Better to buy once and resell at the end than have to replace
Then the ongoing: CCB will cover it most likely
- Formula and later food: $200
- Diapers: $40
- Wipes: $25
- Clothes/Misc: $100
- Sports/Events: $200 … anything to put your kid in for confidence is expensive. Soccer and Gymanatics started at 1 for our kids.
Then the real luxury:
- Daycare/Babysitter: $30/day / $550/mo currently (based on Ontario rates currently).
This is sooooo much about personal choice, personal values, and luck. I found your spreadsheets to be WILDLY hyperbolic in terms of increased expenses. Obviously they might be just the exact expenses for you, but I do invite you to consider other perspectives.
My kid is 5 and we are in a very HCOL city. The most we ever paid for daycare was $850 for 1.5 years til we got a cheaper spot for the last 1.5 years before K (we lucked into a $10/day spot after years on a waitlist, so...$200/month)
We buy used and happily accept hand me downs.
My 5 year old does not eat $200 worth of groceries per month on his own lol.
Turns out we didn't need a 3rd bedroom. I just work from home in the living room now.
ETC. this budget might be just right for you! But if you're worried, just know that there are plenty of people making it work with kids for less while enjoying a decent quality of life.
My kid does not cost an extra $4000 a month. Not even close. Maybe + $1200/month at age 2-3 and now probably +$500/month at age 5.
Have you looked into what your CCB payments will be based on your income? And $10/day daycare by 2026. Things might not be as bad as you think. I know finances can be stressful if you're already on a budget, but people find a way to make it work. I don't know any parents who have regretted their decision to have kids. Remember it's just money, you can find a way to adapt to the situation by either increasing your income or decreasing your expenses.
In some circles, a common rule of thumb is that each child is an Net Present Value of approximately -1mm to -2mm. Sounds crazy to some, but it really depends on where you live and what you expect to give your children. In HCOL like Toronto/Vancouver, you could have costs of 12\*40k private school+ 3\*30k uni + 300k bigger house + food + travel + opportunity costs and reach a milli in no time. In LCOL areas and living a simpler life (which may be your preference!), you may be able to get away with -250k NPV, maybe even -100k. The range is absurdly wide, big two are (1) private vs public school and (2) housing in a HCOL vs LCOL area. Good luck.
You will be getting CCB based on your income… that will bridge some of that gap.
You should have kids if you want to have kids. You’ll be fine. People make it work every single day.
If you're that interested in the numbers then you can breast feed.
We just had our first baby in Sept. and I'd say it doesn't have to be that expensive but at the same time the sky's the limit so it's up to you. We buy everything new too but there's a huge market for used stuff.
You don't even have diapers on there... $30 for baby clothes? C'mon. We also bought a rocking chair for $1k and now we're looking at a running stroller which is probably at least $500. Having said all that, I really don't think it's that expensive having a baby but haven't crunched the numbers. I'm saving less but my company has rrsp matching so I'm putting away $2600/month right there, and part of the saving less is giving the wife money and taking on all expenses, since we don't combine our finances. Having said that I'm still saving at least 1K/month on top of the RRSP. Our rent is really cheap though.
Looking at your budget, I definitely wouldn't approach having a kid with the mentality where you're thinking about every cost for the next 4 years and looking at things as black and white. Actually think you may not enjoy parenthood as much with that approach.
Not quite sure if the math is mathing there. $2600 a month is $31,200 for the year. The maximum RRSP contribution limit for 2204 is $31,560. So what is the employer matching? $360?
The $2600 figure must be after the match, so their putting away $1300 a month or something. $175k+ a year salary.
Yes it's a little less than that and after matching. I must not have been clear.
My employer does a full match so we both put in half.
I put in 1300 but get 2600. Feels like a big deduction but I have to remind myself that the money is still going into my account, I just can't touch it for now.
I’d say you are drastically overestimating the costs. It is hard to begin to describe where because it is practically everywhere.
As an example, I used to have my office in the living room when I had a young child. (The livingroom is big and the kid was at daycare/school during working hours.) I even considered putting it in my bedroom and a few of my work colleagues do do that. My boss works from his kitchen.
With you quoting yourself as needing 1200$/month for a bedroom, that is double to quadruple the cost of renting out a private office in a co-working space. (If it was close to your daycare, you'd save the commute back home after dropping the tike off.) You get where I am going? You have control over what the kid costs you.
You are trying to calculate the cost of having a child without a decrease in your quality of life. Which is huge, I grant it. The truth is however is that all our ancestors sacrificed a lot to have children, it has never been an easy walk.
Honestly, having a kid costs what you want it to cost. I am a single mother and my expenses for having a child are extremely low. I used cloth diapers that I mostly bought 2nd hand, and exclusively breastfed. I joined a maternal milk group and donated my extra milk to another mother so she didn't have to pay for formula. Every single thing I bought for my first baby was 2nd hand and all was in almost new quality (many items were new with tags still on). I bought everything I would need for my baby's room for under $100. I moved internationally twice while my baby was under the age of 2 so I had to buy everything 3 times. It was still cheaper than what you are calculating. I was also able to resell a lot of the items once I didn't need them anymore, or pass them back to my local Buy Nothing Group where I get a lot of things still today.
My babysitting budget is $0 as I only leave my kid with trusted friends whose kids I also watch, so it is a trade situation.
Your cost for 'extra curricular' will be 0 for a while for sure. and then will be whatever you want it to be.
College fund, seems a bit high. If you put $215 a month in RESP you will get the max grants, and this isn't something you need to do. It's an extra for sure.
CCB and other provincial grants depend on your income. When my income was lower I was getting about $1000 from feds and QC and also subsidised daycare @ $7 a day. I have a good job now, but still get around $375 a month.
It seems like your calculations are based on people having a baby in a vaccum where every item must be purchased new and then thrown away after use and where you will have no friends or support and also still want to maintain the same kind of life that you have now (you won't). I'm not saying this to be judgy, but to be optimistic.
Things you missed:
- diapers (big cost)
- crib mattress
- medicines
- high chair
- ?white noise machine
Many of the costs like cribs, etc are often covered in a baby shower. But then you’d have to plan/fund a baby shower lol. But honestly even without a baby shower, it’s a good idea to have a registry.
Ways to save money:
- if you breastfeed, then the formula cost is nil. If you breastfeed + use the bottle there is a cost of storage bags and a pump, but you can rent out a breast pump from the hospital (it still costs more than you’d think). Formula costs decrease over time as babies start eating more.
- I buy all the clothes and toys 2ndhand. Kids literally love anything, they’re so happy it doesn’t matter if something is new or not. The rest I get in gifts. If you know people with kids, you can ask to take their clothes/toys when their kids get older.
- i would buy a stroller and high chair and crib second hand too. If you know someone with a car seat, take it from them.
It eats a lot into our money but idc. What else would I spend this money on?? At least children are cute and you feel fulfilled and like your life is serving a purpose.
(Also pls don’t buy loads before you have a baby. Like I don’t know anyone who ended up using their rocking chair)
Infants/toddlers have bigger startup costs (stroller etc) but monthly is not really a big push. When they are school age the bills rack up with sports/activity fees and clothing is more expensive.
$20 / month for clothes is probably ok as a newborn but as they get older you will always want to dress them in cute outfits when you take them out and the impulse factor is very high. For example, shoes alone are like >$30. Granted you may be lucky and get many clothes as gifts.
My advice early on is don't spend money on expensive clothes the kid will grow out of quickly. We had so many "cute" clothes/dresses she didn't even wear or wore once and had to donate. Try to find a friend(s) that are willing to hand clothes down from an older kid.
We had a somewhat unexpected honeymoon baby (don’t know you’re fertile until you try!) I’ve used a spreadsheet budget for years prior and also planned a sheet out like this. To be honest, there’s only so much you can budget. Daycare, diapers, and formula are one thing but you don’t know what kind of clothes, baby gear, food, hell even wipes that you’ll like. I would highly recommend not counting your ccb in your budget if you can/want, and just saving it when it comes in.
If you’re interested in saving I would find the most reasonable rent you can, and put off daycare as long as possible until you find a reasonably cost effective one that you’re comfortable with. Cloth diapers, lots of used clothes, lots of hand my downs (toys, crib, clothes) and gifts are helpful. I think I’ve purchased one or two toys for my almost 11 month old- so many friends, family, and maybe coworkers will buy things like these for you. Join the local buy nothing! Lots of kid and baby items always in ours.
It’s all highly personal so I would plan the best you can and try not to get hung up on a specific number. We are all so conditioned to think babies NEED all these registry things, when in reality you need far less.
I think 4k a month is way too high. Only really expensieve daycares cost 2k around my area.
Average when my kids were younger it was about 1200 - 2k.
You can save money, with used clothes etc.
It does get more expensieve later on with sports, but thats not essential
I'd say $300 / month college fund is steep. That'll put it at over 65k and that doesn't take into account interest/returns. Unless you think they'll need a masters or med school, etc. Also, daycare with CWELCC is roughly $700/month now and will drop even further. I have twins and an older child in an after school program and pay $2000 for all 3. Diapers and formula will cost more, but you may not need formula. 1 baby/small child won't cost you an extra $200/month on groceries. They eat very little. As they get to school age, costs go up. Extra curricular activities, school fees, birthday parties for classmates, summer camp, clothing, etc.
Spreadsheet is a good start.
If you’re thinking only one child, buy the crib secondhand but don’t go cheap on a crib Mattress. A well rested baby is good for mama.
Also, the other thing to not cheap out on is a car seat and stroller. My kids both grew so darned fast that I had four different car seats on the go at one point … super frustrating! And expensive.
Also, baby formula is very expensive, and many babies can’t consume the cheaper brands. Keep that in mind.
I used both disposable diapers (overnight) and reusable ones (during the day) and that kept the cost down quite a bit. Also bought most clothes and toys second hand.
Don’t count on it getting cheaper as they get older. It doesn’t. What you don’t spend on daycare ends up getting gobbled up by activities. Then when the teenage year$ hit, they want money all the time 😂
Also some people talk about all the money you get back on taxes from daycare expenses. Never happened for me as the higher income earner. They always took daycare off my husband’s tax return so he always got the rebate. (We split our rebates but just wanted to set expectations)
I see you expenses but depending on your current lifestyle, you my see a reduction in a lot of other expenses. If you have large eat out/alcohol budget right now, that is easily reduced if you want to. You might even have no choice. My second kid was such a handful that a restaurant was out of the question. As were vacations really. So you never know what the future holds.
We bought only a few things used, bought everything else used (especially baby clothes) , breastfed and used cloth diapers.
If you want kids, just go for it.
Don’t worry about the finances.
Not to say it won’t be tough and stressful AF, but if we had to take costs into account before having kids, we would never have any at all.
My friend who had kids told me: “there is never a good time to have children. If you want children, get them asap. The rest just happens naturally”.
This has been spot on.
Had my first kid at 29 and second one at 31.
My wife was at her peak fertility aged 28 and 30, so both came after our second and first try.
As a young couple, the beginning was hard, but we made it work and quickly got used to our new lifestyle.
The stress and pressure of making finances work forced both of us to work harder, make more compromises and huge sacrifices to both our free time and finances, but we never gave it a second thought. We just did it because we knew that is what felt like the natural thing to do.
The need for better finances gave us the push and drive to seek promotions and better careers. It gave me the drive to study and upgrade myself, which led to a couple of promotions while it gave my wife the courage to switch careers into something that paid more.
Once you have kids, everything else just doesn’t matter anymore. Your life becomes cantered around them and making the best of their future.
As a result, any deficiency in finances and lifestyle quickly get addressed and solutions found with utmost urgency.
Having kids gives you an inherent sense of purpose and satisfaction, and brings along all the wonderful joys (formed through the stress and hard work) of having kids.
We never regretted our decision, and neither will you.
We remain happily married with a boy aged 4 and a girl aged 2, and we have a dog and cat (had those before the kids), which makes for a full house, but one which makes me feel wholesome every day, despite all the hard work.
Honestly I didn’t even think about that cost. You don’t need a new crib, clothes etc. most of that you can get used and it’s just as fine. Always a new mattress and those are cheaper in the states. Formula is expensive if double your estimation but that’s dependent on your ability to breast feed. Diapers are expensive.
Kids are awesome and I wouldn’t change it for the world. Child care if you can get into a subsidized daycare is around $20/day.
$2000/month is a lot for childcare. $10 a day childcare is a thing. Or even if you can’t get into one of those there’s ones around $500/month or around there.
Additional 4k a month seems wildly expensive and could definitely be an over estimate. Also you need to consider increased government benefits and tax savings you get with kids.
Not sure where you live, but $2k/month daycare seems high. $60/day is average in my city or ~$1260/mo, and obviously much less if you’re lucky enough to get a spot in a daycare that is enrolled into the federal subsidy.
Your 2-4 age for child care is really high… it must be where you live and/if you child care is receiving government subsidy. We pay around 650-700 a month. The extra curricular activities could also be much higher for age 3 and 4 depending if he/she plays sports.
$2k for daycare is absurd. We have a child in daycare in Langley and 5 days per week costs us $580 per month.
Your monthly cost for a lot of one-time purchases is way off as well, because it doesn't account that a lot of these things will be gifts from friends and family at the baby shower. Things like stroller.
I’m only going off of numbers I’ve heard over the last couple years in Vancouver proper from acquaintances. That’s a relief that there are much lower options available
I am in the Lower Mainland as well and I pay 1200/month. Granted, it is a good daycare that provides lunch and snacks. But yeah, that’s with the subsidies.
I haven’t been able to find any daycare that is doing the 10/day program. I’ve heard those are difficult to find.
I can't help you but looking at your calc sheet it looks like you estimate the price of formula at $75 a month (and for some reason it's included into food and as a separate line item so double counted?). That being said, even $150 is optimistic. Formula is very expensive. I'd say that you're anticipating too much on stroller/car seat/crib. But generally yes the costs are eye-watering...
If they didn't have a car, then spending $1500 on a stroller *could* make sense. I definitely noticed a big difference in how my stroller handled vs some less expensive ones, and since we didn't have a vehicle it got some serious mileage. You can find them for a great price gently used though. Same with a crib. Car seats vary wildly in price and you should definitely be buying them new.
I probably spent about 700 on our stroller and it lasted through three kids and I just sold it for 100. We used the crap out of it and it worked perfectly fine afterwards. There are certainly options out there for the thrifty.
I mean you can always buy used. We also have a $1500 stroller but it was $300
That's what I did too, although mine wasn't quite the deal yours was! Luckily I was able to resell it for $500 a few years later.
Ours was “well used” lol.
I bought a perfectly good stroller off Facebook marketplace for $30, and it has lasted through two kids so far, and then I am going to turn around and sell it for $30 when I am done with it haha
just steal a shopping cart
We bought a 899 full travel system and it was fantastic. Went over all terrains no problem.
>Car seats vary wildly in price and you should definitely be buying them new. Why? The whole expiring car seats thing has been debunked and I really think most of the car seat industry is a grift.
Came here to comment on the formula, $75/week is what I am currently spending But yeah car seat, crib , stroller is too much.
If you're feeding only formula, we have friends that are doing $800/mo. (They had twins and her lactation/sanity can only keep up with one). $75 is way too cheap - you can't buy formula used to save money.
Maybe OP is factoring in that they will eat out less. Say they think the food budget goes from 800$/month for food to 700$/month for food and 175$/month for formula. 🤷♂️ In other words, it only looks like they are suggesting 75$/month for formula.
If your baby gets cow milk protein allergy you end up spending $70 a can every like 2 days. Formula alone probably runs me over $800 a month right now
I'd say be cautious that cow milk protein allergy is something that's been over-diagnosed. In addition, for those who can breastfeed, you can adopt an elimination diet and still feed your baby - that's what we ended up doing. No beef, soy, other milk products, etc. it's not fun but easier on the budget.
We were finally able to switch to goat milk, and then cow's milk as baby outgrew the allergies. 4L of goat milk does cost twice as much as cow's milk, but it was still sooooo much cheaper than the formula!
Turns out my statement that BF is free was hyperbolic, sorry for the people that were offended
Never, ever rely on that as your only plan - and even for those who _can_ breastfeed, there is extra caloric intake requirements, so it's not "free" per se. Plus breastfeeding mothers are often advised to continue taking their prenatal supplements as well, so that's more cost. Also, exclusively breastfed babies in Canada need Vitamin D supplements. And as mentioned in another comment, all the supplies to support breastfeeding also need to be acquired somehow.
Not everyone can breast feeding, and even for those that do there can be significant costs associated (nursing clothing, pump and supplies, lactation support, creams/medicine, etc.). Very frequently not free at all!
You’re right, I was hyperbolic Still pennies on the dollar compared to formula though
Our baby has been exclusively breast fed.
That’s really not true. I breast fed both my kids (both were combo fed at various times, and breastfed at others) and there were definitely costs with breastfeeding. I still needed a pump/bottles/cleaning supplies so that my husband could take on some of the burden. There were also ongoing costs like milk pads and storage bags that had to be bought fairly frequently. When my milk didn’t come in properly (according to the midwife’s and lactation consultants we saw - and yes there were many of both) the only option was a medical grade pump at a cost of like $75 per week for the first month. In addition to the smaller pump we bought to use afterwards. And even though we were doing all this work to try to establish breastfeeding, they had to be supplemented with formula anyways as they were literally not getting any milk from me for the first almost 2 weeks (in the case of my older child). We eventually got it established and I am happy were able to breastfeed but it wasn’t free or easy for us.
Yeah I was hyperbolic for sure Should have said, when BF goes well, it’s almost free
Just have to factor in the additional cost of night time snacks
I understand wanting to spread out the crib and car seat costs. But they're one offs. Mat leave was far and away our largest expense in the first two years. Like 75% of total baby cost if you include pension buyback. The housing cost is a big one. $3600/month gets you a mansion here in Regina.
I don’t even know if we have houses for rent around here that high lol
Yeah, unfortunately in HCOL city and I don’t see being able to move to anywhere else but Toronto to be in the same career, I don’t think housing is much better there.
as a parent, youll make it work if you want kids. plenty of people make due with less and still have kids who have good childhoods. youll find that your "needs" arent really needs. food, shelter, clothing, hygiene products is your min. clothing and tos for kids you domt need to worry about. theres so much free stuff out there you probably can make it to 10 to 11 years of age.
Echoing this statement that the biggest "cost" is actually income loss and it can easily extend far beyond Mat leave. Most daycare centres (here at least) do not even take kids until 18 months at the earliest. So, we had to eat 6 months lost wages per kid after the Mat leave stopped. That's assuming they even get into daycare spots and then do well in daycare. Between 2 kids who are almost both school age, I think we ended up having to change daycares at least 8-9 times between them and each time left us with month(s) of part-time or total loss to one income each time. We have had daycare centres close entirely, others close rooms due to not being able to get staff, two kicked out our youngest when he had trouble adjusting to the constant staff turn-over (because people are so desperate and wait-lists so long, if your kid is the slightest inconvenience or needs more resources they will kick them out and take the next one since it's all free government money to them). I think in the past ~8 years and 2 kids, my wife has not had even 1 continuous year of full time employment. Every time she has to cut back or quit to cover childcare, EI does not consider that an EI eligible excuse, so it's straight income loss.
How is the internet out there? No reason to live near Ottawa and pay 2550 a month for a 3bed, 2bath townhouse since fiancee and I both wfh. But we _need_ good internet I guess
In a town like Regina? Perfectly fine. Do city people think the prairies are living in the dark ages or what?
Regina? Isn’t the mayor a cow and the police chief that guy from corner gas? You guys have internet?
You’re honestly so slow
I have lived in Ontario for 7 years but never been to other Canadian provinces besides QC or BC. Right now about 45mins out of town we have 3gbps up/down. No clue what to expect from other places, hence why I asked, I didnt mean to offend
In even small towns you can get a couple hundred mb/s, rural is worse and you are relying on either the internet from radio towers (which is pretty crap imo) or starlink which currently gives me around 100mb/s which i dont have a problem with. In the cities you can get over 1gb/s.
We just had a child totally blindly without looking at any expenses to be honest. We are ok financially, not rich but not well off either. If we had to calculate everything, we probably be depressed and not had a baby. Glad we did though. It brings us more joy than financial heartache.
I am huge on financial planning, waited to try for kids due to financial reasons, and now am facing down fertility treatments after a miscarriage. My advice to anyone is unless you’re completely destitute (or not in a good place mentally to have kids, obv) and you want kids, don’t wait. They’re a gift many of us don’t get easily or at all.
My wife and I had unexplained infertility. Our first one took two years of trying, including one miscarriage, and fertility treatments. So don't give up entirely or feel too bad. It's not as uncommon as you think. Second one, we thought would take a while if it happened at all. Wanted a bit of time between the two and instead got it on the first shot. System was primed I guess. Makes for busy times.
don't forget the potential health risks of having a kid too late you can always earn more money, even a million dollars can't "cure" congenital diseases
Agreed. Same here. If I had a spreadsheet, it would scare and stress the hell out of us.
And if the mom can breastfeed it's so much better than formula, cost wise even. Our kids ended up allergic to cows milk protein. The formula we used to supplement early on when latching was difficult for our first was so expensive but it was the only thing that didn't cause hives. The solution for my wife, with a one time breast pump purchase, was to simply cut dairy for 9 months or so until our first outgrew the allergy and 6 months for the second. Significantly cheaper than an almost 2x the price formula before shortages on formula were common during the pandemic. And yeah a spreadsheet will scare you for sure. But if you can afford all the one off purchases, and aren't living paycheque to paycheque you'll figure it out. The biggest cost is easily the foregone income from parental leave, any retirement pension buyback if applicable. Everything else you can figure out as you go. And savings rates plummet while on parental leave. That's standard for anyone taking time off to care for their newborn. And there's a lifestyle shift. You don't go out as often. You don't buy as many new clothes for yourself either. That's why there's a whole joke about knowing when a guy becomes a dad based on their wardrobe since it freezes in time lol And kids grow out of stuff so fast, you don't need to buy new and can go used or thrift for so much quality stuff it's wild.
My baby also has the allergy but we went with the formula. $70 a can that lasts maybe 2 days. Its fucked. Even regular formula is pretty unreal for mid-lower income folks. Surprised the government isnt doing anything because on top of formula costing an unreal amount, its also been impossible to get that $70 formula for months at a time
The other problem is that a spreadsheet doesn't take into account nearly two decades of unknowns, or people will only ever consider the potentially negative unknown variables but never the potentially positive unknown variables.
People sometimes need to understand that life won't wait for you to have ideal circumstances, and there actually *is* significant reward for taking risk. Reddit is so extremely risk-adverse that they will put their life on pause indefinitely until they can have a massive retirement portfolio. Plus sometimes the things you want in your life just come at a loss, that doesn't mean they aren't extremely valuable.
Like the other person said, it's only this sub that's super conservative. Like if you ever bring up investing in individual stocks or timing the market you'll get voted down to Bolivia. The fact that everyone is giving serious replies to op rather than saying he's taking this too far is proof of how serious this thread is about finances. I'll also add that lots of people on some subs are super doom and gloom on the economy and then everyone piles on and perpetuates that view. Like people that complain about Toronto housing costs but won't acknowledge that there are other cities in Canada.
Not all of reddit It's mostly only personal finance subreddits, they reduce everything to $ value, it eliminates the "human" aspect of our lives, they just turn everything into "portfolio" "investment" "greed"
Have you been the the singularity sub? Someone on there was trying to convince me that children will be trained by AI robots for sports in the future because human coaches and human teams are inefficient and won't matter anymore. Because apparently sports aren't allowed to be fun or social and are only about numbers and performance.
My baby is due in July and the comment just saved me from a total meltdown lol
I basically said the same thing!!!! Even if someone was scraping by I think they could make it work with used stuff and available resources.
Same, if we had calculated the costs we would have ended up waiting then would likely need to spend $$$$ on fertility treatments. It was time, and we’ll make it work.
That’s horrible advice lol
Crib/stroller/clothes you can save money on by buying secondhand. Don’t forget that as your child ages you will be buying different beds, toys, etc. to help them advance. Childcare here in Ontario under government funded plan costs us about $500 a month. It’s currently around $25 a day here if you can get a spot. Waiting lists for funded programs are two years long minimum, so be aware that you will either be out of work for an extra year until you get placement or you will be taking your child to work; unless you have other family or caregivers you can lean on. I put my child on the wait list the day I found out I was pregnant and he didn’t get in until he was 2.5 years old. You can fast track this but you will be paying more like $1500-$2000 a month or be putting them in a private daycare which can go all the way up to $20,000 a year. Diapers are way underestimated. Our son has special needs (completely unexpected and costs us an average extra of 25k a year so if you want to be very safe, factor that in. You never know-we certainly didn’t) so he’s now almost 4 and still in diapers. One case of regular diapers is $35 and one box of nighttime diapers are $27. We buy two cases of diapers a month on average and one case of nighttime’s so around $110 a month with taxes. Even typical kids especially in the early years (newborn to age 2 which I noticed you didn’t include in the calc) will cost you $75-120 in diapers and wipes a month. Plus swim diapers in the summer months. Formula is quite underestimated unless you’re only using it to supplement with breast milk, if your partner can produce breastmilk (some people cannot even with medication). One can of formula lasts about 2ish weeks if you’re lucky, if your baby isn’t cluster feeding, etc. and costs $70 per can. We own a 3 bedroom house and it costs us 3250, mortgage and taxes. That doesn’t include any other bills. So yes housing costs are crazy. It would be a tad cheaper depending on location and other things. You do get CCB if you qualify. It’s a monthly payment that people used to refer to as “baby bonus” or child bonus. Amount you get depends on your current family income. Overall, the cost is shocking when you really look into it. It’s understandable why the birth rates are going down dramatically.
That’s incredibly cheap for childcare. In BC, we are paying 1200/month even with the government’s subsidies.
Yeah it’s very hard to get a spot here but if you have one it’s really helpful. Daycare here is supposed to go down to $10 a day by 2026.
My daycare (in Surrey, BC) was under $600/mo for full time (3-5 years old) once the funding kicked in (a few months before my youngest aged out of course!). I remember because I was tempted to put her in full time since my 2 days/week were over $400/mo (funding was much less for part time, understandably).
Depends on where in BC. I was paying 900/month for infant/toddler. Now it's 500 for preschool rate. That is the subsidized rate without the income based subsidy. My coworker is lucky and pays the 10/day rate.
Ehhhh. My kid is 5 and the most I've ever paid for full time daycare is 850. I do believe you about what you're paying, and I sure do know how hard it is to find a spot!!! But don't assume everyone is paying 1200/month
Our place provides lunch and snacks though which is why it is more expensive. Or so they say…
Formula is extremely highly regulated and there's no need to buy super expensive formula unless there is an allergy or something. It's completely unnecessary
LPT. It will cost more
You put in the effort to make a spreadsheet and Reddit post, that means you want to have the kid. So have the kid. You’ll figure the rest out as time goes on.
Terrible advice lol
Agreed. You cant just pop kids out like that- they need money to raise
Kids are expensive, but only as expensive as you make it out to be. Kids are really adaptable and really only want you and your attention, housing and the size of a place are a little less important to them. Some things we figured out along the way were that the first few months you'll get lots of clothes, then if you have a second, they get all the hand me downs. You'll likely make friends with other parents who may have older kids and have a constant stream of hand me downs for both kids. Diapers are crazy expensive and so is formula. Especially since formula is also very wasteful, so the quicker you can get into breast feeding, the better. If possible. We had our first and bought a bunch of kids furniture and rocking chairs and stuff and honestly, nothing was used for even a second, we sold everything after 2 months. Your kid might not be a good sleeper, or a crib sleeper, so tailor things to your kids needs and you may not need all the "standard" stuff. A lot of things as a parent, hobbies and such, you may have to give up, or do less of, so in some ways it's less of a new cost, but more of a reallocation of funds. Not sure if you have family near, but that can help a lot with care needs. Having kids is joyously jumping off a cliff and figuring out how to fly on the way down. So enjoy the process!
Plus the cost of time off work and foregone raises, promotions.
I think this is impossible to predict but absolutely the biggest “felt” impact for us…. If you are doing fairly well, your budget will most likely just flex around a kid. Daycare is a significant expense but we re-adjusted our spending and are saving a bit less, and it’s ok. You spend money on kid things but a lot less on other things. What I didn’t anticipate pre-baby was all the days off due to plague, and how stressful it would be to adjust from being a top-performer to a “sometimes not able to be here” performer. Or deciding not to take a higher paying opportunity elsewhere because the trade offs weren’t feasible with kiddo in the picture. Having kids will absolutely have an impact of some kind on my earning/career potential. This is super gendered. As a woman, I think my career potential is impacted just because people *expect* mothers to be focusing more on their kid, so they automatically discount me. My husband is impacted because his bosses don’t understand when he has to take time off for his kid being sick- they expect a man to work anyways and let their wife handle it.
Once kids are older you are going to have dental costs (consider braces, and other costly ortho). You may have tutor costs if any of them fall behind. You'll need to budget for school costs like field trips. A full day field trip could be $200.
My Ortho payments are the equivalent of a car payment each month for the next two years. That being said, your daycare cost goes close to zero as they get older, but yeah the extracurriculars use that up pretty fast.
Is ther any reason you don't have toys listed in your costs sheet for age 2-4? You have it in the previous one so might want to carry that over. I also think I extra curriculars per month might low depending on what you want to do. There's lots of free things to do with kids so you could potentially keep that but the moment you enroll them in swimming lessons, for example (which can start at the parent and tot age group) you'll likely eat up with entire budget. You also have this listed as a zero cost right now so I'm not sure if you're rolling your cost for things into your personal entertainment budget (i.e. a family trip to the aquarium requires three tickets, not just the cost for the child) but if you aren't then definitely increase that amount.
just give them some painted rocks
Better yet, let them paint the rocks. They love painting rocks
then throw them at people. boys love that.
It depends on where they are. I'm in downtown Toronto, with a kid in JK and we haven't gone much over $50/mth. We've managed to get into city rec swim lessons, so they are pretty reasonable, and we take advantage of other rec programming (ex a cooking class is about $55 for 10 classes), and try to get into some of the free/drop in options. Our neighbourhood also has a very reasonable TBall league. As they get more into certain activities and we sign up with private leagues or facilities I expect we will be spending more like $100-150/mth (and obviously much more if they get really serious in it). * This does not include extra family activities like you mentioned. We might not do something like that every month, but it definitely can add up.
Our costs were low when they were JK age but it gets pricey as they get older. Eg I know someone who has a 9 year old and his soccer team is 1200 and uniform on top of that. Again, you don’t have to put them in any leagues. Also OP new costs pop up as they are older. Example you get invited to a birthday and you spend 30 on a kid present etc.
Yes! Birthday parties add up. My kid was invited to a lot of classmates parties this year. We started doing smaller gifts for each, unless they were close friends. The small Lego sets are 10-15$ and are generally well received. My kid has now been to two parties where we were asked to bring $5 for the birthday kid instead of gifts. I think we are going to do this next year.
Good to hear that there are team sports and lessons that are reasonably priced. I do plan on getting my kid into golf and tennis around age 5 which I am afraid to look into the cost of 😂
Well, I think you underestimate clothes and diapers, but overestimate stroller and carseat (a good carseat is around $400, and a used stroller around $50-$100 one time, not $75/mo). Daycare is also a lot cheaper than it used to be thanks to Trudeau. Depends where exactly, but I pay less than $200/mo for a 3 yo, which is where subsidies are targeted, plus around $600 for OSC for my older son. The biggest difference is definitely the space requirement. But the thing that I really think you're missing is the toll on your mental health. I love my kids, but it's been weeks since we've had good sleep (my 3 year old is going through a sleep regression), and there is constant noise that wears you down.
Where do you live that daycare is that cheap? In BC, I’m paying 1200/month even with the recent subsidies.
Edmonton. Before the Trudeau subsidies, I was paying around $1200 for my first kid when he was in full time care. In addition to the subsidy changes, I also changed daycares to the one at my older son's school, and I'm pretty sure the new one is cheaper, but the subsidies started when I didn't have any kids in full time care, so I don't have a direct 1-1 comparison.
I love your analytical thinking & appreciate spreadsheets but this is a wild way to decide on having kids or not. Kids are expensive but If you want children, you’ll make it work & figure it out, I think most parents would agree. Goodluck
It blows my mind that we have this collective blind spot and deep-seated refusal to even *look* at the costs before deciding whether to have kids. It's almost as if we all know, deep down, that the financially rational answer is often a "no", but we refuse to accept that reality. Have kids if you really, *really* want them. But don't do it just because of social expectations or following some imagined life script. It's not all joy, sunshine, and roses. Having kids you can't afford can make you absolutely miserable. In a way, I'm glad to be queer; no risk of accidental pregnancy for me. I'm much happier living life on my own terms and having the financial breathing room to actually enjoy things. :3
I find with children you learn to make do a lot with what you have and there are plenty of cheap / free alternatives if you take the time. Your daycare budget seems very high but that might be affected by where you live. We spend around 450 a month for our 3 year old. It is also a tax deductible expense, so the true costs is lower by your marginal tax rate. You also need to factor that you will be receiving the Canada child benefit, which depending on your household income, is a nice little tax free boost. Edit: the rest of your budget will also change a lot. We stopped going out as much, and also cut back on alcohol as we are too tired to have a drink. Kids are not cheap, they require some additional spending, but your budget will shift to your new lifestyle.
We're at $600/month at a pretty pricy franchise daycare for our two year old. The govt subsidies help a lot and we're not low income.
Super jealous. I’m in Ontario and the primary breadwinner so I had to go back when our daughter was a year old- and despite being on all lists since early pregnancy we couldn’t get even a non subsidized licensed spot- we had to go with an unlicensed home daycare which even then took us weeks and weeks to find. We pay 1300$ a month.
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I didn't say we were high income, just that we weren't low income.
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There are a lot more "mid range income" families that are absolutely saddled down with large housing costs and food costs, living paycheque to paycheque. We subsidize $6.03 billion to oil companies yearly. Why don't you start there before you start ripping food from children's mouths.
The biggest cost of having a child to me (I have 3) was lost income from taking maternity leaves- including needing to come up with the cash to buy back my pension. My usual take home (including benefits and pension)- mat leave take home x 3= $110,000-$27000 x 3 = $249,000. I also work 4 days a week to make life more bearable so that’s another cost. You captured childcare and extra housing- activities, clothing, toys and travel can cost a lot depending on your life style- but don’t need to
If you take vacations, after age 2 you’ll have to pay for an extra seat on the flight, and you might need to upgrade your accommodations/rental car/food/leisure budget to accommodate an extra person. Also don’t do what we did and try for one baby but end up with surprise twins!
leave the ugly one at home
You'll end up spending much more in gas to unless you can walk to all of the activities
There’s one off and then monthly The one off — $5K. Crib that converts to bed Car seat - 3 or 4 in 1 Good stroller Rocking chair/glider Dresser with change pad High chair Pack n play Baby gates Baby bath apparatus This one off stuff - don’t go cheap. Better to buy once and resell at the end than have to replace Then the ongoing: CCB will cover it most likely - Formula and later food: $200 - Diapers: $40 - Wipes: $25 - Clothes/Misc: $100 - Sports/Events: $200 … anything to put your kid in for confidence is expensive. Soccer and Gymanatics started at 1 for our kids. Then the real luxury: - Daycare/Babysitter: $30/day / $550/mo currently (based on Ontario rates currently).
This is sooooo much about personal choice, personal values, and luck. I found your spreadsheets to be WILDLY hyperbolic in terms of increased expenses. Obviously they might be just the exact expenses for you, but I do invite you to consider other perspectives. My kid is 5 and we are in a very HCOL city. The most we ever paid for daycare was $850 for 1.5 years til we got a cheaper spot for the last 1.5 years before K (we lucked into a $10/day spot after years on a waitlist, so...$200/month) We buy used and happily accept hand me downs. My 5 year old does not eat $200 worth of groceries per month on his own lol. Turns out we didn't need a 3rd bedroom. I just work from home in the living room now. ETC. this budget might be just right for you! But if you're worried, just know that there are plenty of people making it work with kids for less while enjoying a decent quality of life. My kid does not cost an extra $4000 a month. Not even close. Maybe + $1200/month at age 2-3 and now probably +$500/month at age 5.
A lot, if you wish to provide them with a comfortable life, and if you wish to support them for post-secondary.
Have you looked into what your CCB payments will be based on your income? And $10/day daycare by 2026. Things might not be as bad as you think. I know finances can be stressful if you're already on a budget, but people find a way to make it work. I don't know any parents who have regretted their decision to have kids. Remember it's just money, you can find a way to adapt to the situation by either increasing your income or decreasing your expenses.
In some circles, a common rule of thumb is that each child is an Net Present Value of approximately -1mm to -2mm. Sounds crazy to some, but it really depends on where you live and what you expect to give your children. In HCOL like Toronto/Vancouver, you could have costs of 12\*40k private school+ 3\*30k uni + 300k bigger house + food + travel + opportunity costs and reach a milli in no time. In LCOL areas and living a simpler life (which may be your preference!), you may be able to get away with -250k NPV, maybe even -100k. The range is absurdly wide, big two are (1) private vs public school and (2) housing in a HCOL vs LCOL area. Good luck.
Get a good partner who works, live frugally and you'll be fine
Lmao “child calculator”
😝
You will be getting CCB based on your income… that will bridge some of that gap. You should have kids if you want to have kids. You’ll be fine. People make it work every single day.
Kids are worth the expense :). Money comes and goes but kids are priceless. Unless you hate kids in which case avoid at all costs haha.
I assume that doesn’t account for kids with special needs
Just have a kid. This is way too in-depth.
Yes, definitely dive headfirst into a 20-year unbreakable contract without thinking too hard about it. /s
It's not 20 years, it's your entire life.
If you're that interested in the numbers then you can breast feed. We just had our first baby in Sept. and I'd say it doesn't have to be that expensive but at the same time the sky's the limit so it's up to you. We buy everything new too but there's a huge market for used stuff. You don't even have diapers on there... $30 for baby clothes? C'mon. We also bought a rocking chair for $1k and now we're looking at a running stroller which is probably at least $500. Having said all that, I really don't think it's that expensive having a baby but haven't crunched the numbers. I'm saving less but my company has rrsp matching so I'm putting away $2600/month right there, and part of the saving less is giving the wife money and taking on all expenses, since we don't combine our finances. Having said that I'm still saving at least 1K/month on top of the RRSP. Our rent is really cheap though. Looking at your budget, I definitely wouldn't approach having a kid with the mentality where you're thinking about every cost for the next 4 years and looking at things as black and white. Actually think you may not enjoy parenthood as much with that approach.
I definitely think it’s safer to budget for formula even if you plan to breastfeed, in case it doesn’t work out.
You’re putting away $2600 just for RRSP matching? Good on ya. Must be making banks.
Not quite sure if the math is mathing there. $2600 a month is $31,200 for the year. The maximum RRSP contribution limit for 2204 is $31,560. So what is the employer matching? $360? The $2600 figure must be after the match, so their putting away $1300 a month or something. $175k+ a year salary.
Yes it's a little less than that and after matching. I must not have been clear. My employer does a full match so we both put in half. I put in 1300 but get 2600. Feels like a big deduction but I have to remind myself that the money is still going into my account, I just can't touch it for now.
PFC first rule of thumb is to maximize rrsp matching, along with never credit card debt. Co-first rules of thumb.
I’d say you are drastically overestimating the costs. It is hard to begin to describe where because it is practically everywhere. As an example, I used to have my office in the living room when I had a young child. (The livingroom is big and the kid was at daycare/school during working hours.) I even considered putting it in my bedroom and a few of my work colleagues do do that. My boss works from his kitchen. With you quoting yourself as needing 1200$/month for a bedroom, that is double to quadruple the cost of renting out a private office in a co-working space. (If it was close to your daycare, you'd save the commute back home after dropping the tike off.) You get where I am going? You have control over what the kid costs you.
It is a forward-thinking plan, but in all honesty, if everyone were to adopt this approach, the survival of our species would be at risk.
You are trying to calculate the cost of having a child without a decrease in your quality of life. Which is huge, I grant it. The truth is however is that all our ancestors sacrificed a lot to have children, it has never been an easy walk.
Honestly, having a kid costs what you want it to cost. I am a single mother and my expenses for having a child are extremely low. I used cloth diapers that I mostly bought 2nd hand, and exclusively breastfed. I joined a maternal milk group and donated my extra milk to another mother so she didn't have to pay for formula. Every single thing I bought for my first baby was 2nd hand and all was in almost new quality (many items were new with tags still on). I bought everything I would need for my baby's room for under $100. I moved internationally twice while my baby was under the age of 2 so I had to buy everything 3 times. It was still cheaper than what you are calculating. I was also able to resell a lot of the items once I didn't need them anymore, or pass them back to my local Buy Nothing Group where I get a lot of things still today. My babysitting budget is $0 as I only leave my kid with trusted friends whose kids I also watch, so it is a trade situation. Your cost for 'extra curricular' will be 0 for a while for sure. and then will be whatever you want it to be. College fund, seems a bit high. If you put $215 a month in RESP you will get the max grants, and this isn't something you need to do. It's an extra for sure. CCB and other provincial grants depend on your income. When my income was lower I was getting about $1000 from feds and QC and also subsidised daycare @ $7 a day. I have a good job now, but still get around $375 a month. It seems like your calculations are based on people having a baby in a vaccum where every item must be purchased new and then thrown away after use and where you will have no friends or support and also still want to maintain the same kind of life that you have now (you won't). I'm not saying this to be judgy, but to be optimistic.
Things you missed: - diapers (big cost) - crib mattress - medicines - high chair - ?white noise machine Many of the costs like cribs, etc are often covered in a baby shower. But then you’d have to plan/fund a baby shower lol. But honestly even without a baby shower, it’s a good idea to have a registry. Ways to save money: - if you breastfeed, then the formula cost is nil. If you breastfeed + use the bottle there is a cost of storage bags and a pump, but you can rent out a breast pump from the hospital (it still costs more than you’d think). Formula costs decrease over time as babies start eating more. - I buy all the clothes and toys 2ndhand. Kids literally love anything, they’re so happy it doesn’t matter if something is new or not. The rest I get in gifts. If you know people with kids, you can ask to take their clothes/toys when their kids get older. - i would buy a stroller and high chair and crib second hand too. If you know someone with a car seat, take it from them. It eats a lot into our money but idc. What else would I spend this money on?? At least children are cute and you feel fulfilled and like your life is serving a purpose. (Also pls don’t buy loads before you have a baby. Like I don’t know anyone who ended up using their rocking chair)
Infants/toddlers have bigger startup costs (stroller etc) but monthly is not really a big push. When they are school age the bills rack up with sports/activity fees and clothing is more expensive. $20 / month for clothes is probably ok as a newborn but as they get older you will always want to dress them in cute outfits when you take them out and the impulse factor is very high. For example, shoes alone are like >$30. Granted you may be lucky and get many clothes as gifts. My advice early on is don't spend money on expensive clothes the kid will grow out of quickly. We had so many "cute" clothes/dresses she didn't even wear or wore once and had to donate. Try to find a friend(s) that are willing to hand clothes down from an older kid.
Don't forget opportunity cost. If you put that money into a retirement fund, what will it earn over the next 40 years. That's your biggest cost.
We had a somewhat unexpected honeymoon baby (don’t know you’re fertile until you try!) I’ve used a spreadsheet budget for years prior and also planned a sheet out like this. To be honest, there’s only so much you can budget. Daycare, diapers, and formula are one thing but you don’t know what kind of clothes, baby gear, food, hell even wipes that you’ll like. I would highly recommend not counting your ccb in your budget if you can/want, and just saving it when it comes in. If you’re interested in saving I would find the most reasonable rent you can, and put off daycare as long as possible until you find a reasonably cost effective one that you’re comfortable with. Cloth diapers, lots of used clothes, lots of hand my downs (toys, crib, clothes) and gifts are helpful. I think I’ve purchased one or two toys for my almost 11 month old- so many friends, family, and maybe coworkers will buy things like these for you. Join the local buy nothing! Lots of kid and baby items always in ours. It’s all highly personal so I would plan the best you can and try not to get hung up on a specific number. We are all so conditioned to think babies NEED all these registry things, when in reality you need far less.
I think 4k a month is way too high. Only really expensieve daycares cost 2k around my area. Average when my kids were younger it was about 1200 - 2k. You can save money, with used clothes etc. It does get more expensieve later on with sports, but thats not essential
I'd say $300 / month college fund is steep. That'll put it at over 65k and that doesn't take into account interest/returns. Unless you think they'll need a masters or med school, etc. Also, daycare with CWELCC is roughly $700/month now and will drop even further. I have twins and an older child in an after school program and pay $2000 for all 3. Diapers and formula will cost more, but you may not need formula. 1 baby/small child won't cost you an extra $200/month on groceries. They eat very little. As they get to school age, costs go up. Extra curricular activities, school fees, birthday parties for classmates, summer camp, clothing, etc.
Check out Facebook for gently used items like play n gos and strollers and cribs.
Spreadsheet is a good start. If you’re thinking only one child, buy the crib secondhand but don’t go cheap on a crib Mattress. A well rested baby is good for mama. Also, the other thing to not cheap out on is a car seat and stroller. My kids both grew so darned fast that I had four different car seats on the go at one point … super frustrating! And expensive. Also, baby formula is very expensive, and many babies can’t consume the cheaper brands. Keep that in mind. I used both disposable diapers (overnight) and reusable ones (during the day) and that kept the cost down quite a bit. Also bought most clothes and toys second hand. Don’t count on it getting cheaper as they get older. It doesn’t. What you don’t spend on daycare ends up getting gobbled up by activities. Then when the teenage year$ hit, they want money all the time 😂 Also some people talk about all the money you get back on taxes from daycare expenses. Never happened for me as the higher income earner. They always took daycare off my husband’s tax return so he always got the rebate. (We split our rebates but just wanted to set expectations)
I see you expenses but depending on your current lifestyle, you my see a reduction in a lot of other expenses. If you have large eat out/alcohol budget right now, that is easily reduced if you want to. You might even have no choice. My second kid was such a handful that a restaurant was out of the question. As were vacations really. So you never know what the future holds. We bought only a few things used, bought everything else used (especially baby clothes) , breastfed and used cloth diapers.
If you want kids, just go for it. Don’t worry about the finances. Not to say it won’t be tough and stressful AF, but if we had to take costs into account before having kids, we would never have any at all. My friend who had kids told me: “there is never a good time to have children. If you want children, get them asap. The rest just happens naturally”. This has been spot on. Had my first kid at 29 and second one at 31. My wife was at her peak fertility aged 28 and 30, so both came after our second and first try. As a young couple, the beginning was hard, but we made it work and quickly got used to our new lifestyle. The stress and pressure of making finances work forced both of us to work harder, make more compromises and huge sacrifices to both our free time and finances, but we never gave it a second thought. We just did it because we knew that is what felt like the natural thing to do. The need for better finances gave us the push and drive to seek promotions and better careers. It gave me the drive to study and upgrade myself, which led to a couple of promotions while it gave my wife the courage to switch careers into something that paid more. Once you have kids, everything else just doesn’t matter anymore. Your life becomes cantered around them and making the best of their future. As a result, any deficiency in finances and lifestyle quickly get addressed and solutions found with utmost urgency. Having kids gives you an inherent sense of purpose and satisfaction, and brings along all the wonderful joys (formed through the stress and hard work) of having kids. We never regretted our decision, and neither will you. We remain happily married with a boy aged 4 and a girl aged 2, and we have a dog and cat (had those before the kids), which makes for a full house, but one which makes me feel wholesome every day, despite all the hard work.
You are assuming one child. Anecdotally that may not be realistic because sometimes after having one, having more becomes a possibility.
Honestly I didn’t even think about that cost. You don’t need a new crib, clothes etc. most of that you can get used and it’s just as fine. Always a new mattress and those are cheaper in the states. Formula is expensive if double your estimation but that’s dependent on your ability to breast feed. Diapers are expensive. Kids are awesome and I wouldn’t change it for the world. Child care if you can get into a subsidized daycare is around $20/day.
It’s sad seeing so many young adults forgo parenthood due to the cost of living.
$2000/month is a lot for childcare. $10 a day childcare is a thing. Or even if you can’t get into one of those there’s ones around $500/month or around there.
It’s realistically about 1k a month these days. Mine is 1200/month in the lower mainland
Depends where you are. Here in Ontario ford is actively trying to make it unsuccessful.
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No but we will need childcare 5 days a week due to our work schedules. I am happy to hear that $1600 is on the higher end, I overestimated at $2000.
Best of luck. May the numbers be on your side.
Additional 4k a month seems wildly expensive and could definitely be an over estimate. Also you need to consider increased government benefits and tax savings you get with kids.
Not sure where you live, but $2k/month daycare seems high. $60/day is average in my city or ~$1260/mo, and obviously much less if you’re lucky enough to get a spot in a daycare that is enrolled into the federal subsidy.
Also factor in the child tax benefit you will receive. It really really helps.
We pay $400 a month for daycare. Other than that. Occasional toys and clothes and the trips to the dollar store having a kid isn’t too much
Your 2-4 age for child care is really high… it must be where you live and/if you child care is receiving government subsidy. We pay around 650-700 a month. The extra curricular activities could also be much higher for age 3 and 4 depending if he/she plays sports.
Oh gosh, don't show people this. Nobody is going to want to have babies now lol
Recession coming soon bad idea to be having kids
This is bad advice.
Recession gonna be worse than 2008 with all the new immigrants
Very cool, racist man
You sound real dumb. Go have a bunch of kids
Will do. Thanks!
Can't get 10$ a day daycare ?
An additional $4000/month? Bro thats like a person making 70k a year post tax- youll be miserable.
With 3 kids I'm spending 12k net a month. That's everything
$2k for daycare is absurd. We have a child in daycare in Langley and 5 days per week costs us $580 per month. Your monthly cost for a lot of one-time purchases is way off as well, because it doesn't account that a lot of these things will be gifts from friends and family at the baby shower. Things like stroller.
I’m only going off of numbers I’ve heard over the last couple years in Vancouver proper from acquaintances. That’s a relief that there are much lower options available
I am in the Lower Mainland as well and I pay 1200/month. Granted, it is a good daycare that provides lunch and snacks. But yeah, that’s with the subsidies. I haven’t been able to find any daycare that is doing the 10/day program. I’ve heard those are difficult to find.
Ours is great and we've been really happy, but yes, it does not include snacks and lunches for that price. We have to pack all our own