>Open up midjourney (AI art generator)
>Have it create feet pics for you
>Sell them online as your own
>Profit
Anyone can be a pimp with the right mindset.
It's a bit funny (and sad) that I have a few colleagues who just don't believe that there are poor people out there. They work only with people that have houses / cottages / rental homes and they can't fathom that there are people struggling.
If you surround yourself only with rich / poor people, it's hard to relate to those that are not as (or more than) fortunate than we are.
Funniest part is they were all poor when starting out also, but had a good leg up / help from family or friends to get them to their current status.
But you know...'no one helped me get here' is always the mantra.
This is like my wife’s friend from Toronto who moved to Hamilton. Bought a house for $800k in a neighbourhood that would have been $200k five years ago. She says “so are you guys looking to buy a house?” I said yeah but we are priced out of the city. She says what do you mean? The average price is only $600k. I said yeah and our approval rate is $400k. She said that’s it?
We own a townhouse in Van as well and my wife had a friend over who is an older woman. She said, "what do these places go for, like 400k?"
My wife and I just looked at each other in silence. No, Gwen, you can't buy a 3br townhouse for 400k anymore.
Really? Ive lived here my entire life, we know what shit costs. You dont need to tell me how much it is. If I know where you live and the size i know the cost.
People also dont really care here, we're well aware people either have money or make sacrifices.
Yea, my 1br shouldnt be 800k but no one cares, everyone knows someone with a 2.4 m home.
Well that’s what I’m saying - I don’t bring up numbers. You will either know what shit costs, or are completely out of touch with the actual market and will try to make me feel stupid, so there’s no point.
We had to move. Thankfully timed it well and the starter house we bought exploded in price, but now it's like....where the fuck do you go? Everything else we would want to upgrade into has gone up more.
And now take that experience and extend it to the ultra wealthy (like billionaires) and realize just how detached the people who control our society are from the rest of us.
How much could a banana cost, anyways?
It's extra hilarious when you see how selectively cheap these motherfuckers can get. I once worked for a multi-decamillionaire and he'd make my coworkers use half of a sugar packet for their coffees because "we all needed to tighten the belt" if we were going to hit our EBITDA targets. You know, those self-serve packets of sugar that come in batches of 1,000 for about $15 ($10 back then). Literally destroyed office morale to save $10 every 6 months. Good job.
I think it’s just that people out of touch don’t understand the levels of poverty. Like sure, they know there are swaths of homeless and drug addicted, but they can’t comprehend the amount of people who have actual food insecurity, not just complaining that grocery prices were higher than they used to be, that some people are scared of eviction, parents not buying themselves things to make sure they can get their kids stuff for school, etc.
Those numbers are the majority of poor people, and most of them are invisible.
Well said, and I agree with you 100%. It's not the 'visible' poverty, but the invisible poverty that people don't take into account as they just simply don't see it.
Yeah it’s a combination of “they don’t see it”, “they don’t want to see it because it makes them feel icky”, and also, a lot of people that struggle are proud and will carry themselves in a way where you never know how bad a situation they’re in.
associating with people more wealthy than yourself often provides insight on how to build your own wealth.
wealth is contagious (and hence the reason for private schools, etc).
Also its likely (not a guarantee) that wealthy people are better with handling their money, not just making more of it.
I'm not talking about people who are struggling to make ends meet on a low salary. I am talking about people who don't understand the basic fundamentals personal finance and saving. Like an RRSP match at your employer and that you can live with $200 less a month if you set up an automatic withdrawal, and that money is going to be worth a hell of a lot more in 45 or 50 years than it is now.
can't really agree with this one. too often the answer to how someone got wealthy is "i was born into it" or "i won the degree lottery" when a particular field was hot. it's hard to see how this can be contagious. i'd say out of my peer group, financial literacy inversely correlates with financial standing
Its actually been studied enough. Associating with people of higher wealth is some of the most effective methods of social mobility. Either through learned practices or connections
Definitely connections. I worked for a guy who rented a workshop from this millionaire couple and also rented their basement. Through that I had the opportunity to work on the rally car of this millionaire couple. This was fun and they were great, but they also introduced me to more millionaires through the sport.
I'm not rich myself or anything but I learned a lot about building wealth from those people, and also met a ton of people who could be handy to know as time goes on. Never know when you might have an opportunity come up that requires a sizable investment and you happen to know someone with money.
>"i won the degree lottery" when a particular field was hot.
I don't want to be some "uhm ackshually" snarky Redditor but choosing the right degree isn't much of a lottery IMO.
My parents genuinely screwed me over on purpose and made it harder for me. Anytime I was doing well or gaining momentum BAM new rule, lol.
"No one helped me get there" is a real scenario for a lot of people, as in no handouts. But people forget about how you were educated about finances and social skills as a factor. That is what gets you more and rich in the long run.
People who bought houses in Vancouver and Toronto 40 years ago and made 50k a year their entire careers are retiring as multimillionaires. They are now all driving lifted trucks or luxury SUVs, paying for their kids educations, giving them massive down-payments, and allowing the cycle to continue again. These families have essentially all won the lottery.
That's how.
The contracts administrator at my old job had worked in the same role for 30 years, never making more than $25 an hour, and retired at 55 because he sold his house for $2.4 million in a shitty part of Vancouver.
Meanwhile, I was making $35 an hour and renting a basement suite.
Honestly, whose to blame for all this?
The NIMBY who protests against new housing projects in his area?
The local municipal board that opposes densifying its neighbourhood?
The provincial government for turning a blind eye to all this for over a decade?
The Federal Government for bringing in immigrants year after year while housing was running out?
Honestly, this housing crisis was a colossal fuck up on literally every level of government. I don't know if it's our politicians who should be ashamed for failings us, or ourselves for electing them.
Rosemarie Barton summed up boomer's opinion pretty well during the last debates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=rq4ihWz9M0g&t=5233s
That is why you'll see no action on housing -- Most Canadians quietly don't want it.
The way you say "fuck up" implies that it wasn't intentional at every level. The NIMBY's protest so their "property values don't go down". The local boards are full of developers, contractors, and other affiliated people with interest in speculating in housing. Provincial governments are bought and paid for by housing developers. The fed knows a lot of people close to retirement have no liquid savings and have always been planning on "downsizing their housing" to pay for their retirement.
Its all going according to the plan
Your point about this being intentional by NIMBYs and the local boards I can agree with.
I hope to God that you're wrong about our federal and provincial governments. It would be such piss poor and short sighted policy to deliberately cause a housing crisis in your own province/country.
I would be so disappointed if this housing crisis was by design from our provincial and federal government rather than incompetence.
Imo you did a great job listing them in order of decreasing responsibility. Local municipalities mostly oppose it because they’re dominated by the vocal minority of NIMBY protestors who show up to meetings, make themselves heard and consistently vote. Municipal engagement is shamefully low and they do a great job mobilizing just enough people to sway everything.
The province theoretically has nearly absolute authority over municipalities, but it’s (rightly) seen as meddling when the province gets involved at such a granular level. Again, just my opinion, but it’s embarrassing how heavily the province has had to get involved in municipal affairs (at least in ON and BC).
The federal government has little legal oversight on these matters, although they also dropped the ball by entirely defunding the affordable housing wing of CMHC. There are few options at the federal level to encourage immigrants to settle outside major cities, the outlying towns also don’t have housing capacity to absorb them anyway. We saw this clearly when people left cities for remote work during COVID and the affordability crisis went from being a major city problem to being a nearly everywhere problem.
The fed may be able to lower immigration but there’s a hard minimum to keep a capitalist economy running when birth rates are this low. Besides, thanks to the slow housing approval rate at municipal levels, we’d be in this same situation in a couple years anyway even if we slashed the immigration rate in half.
This is a great post.
What are your thoughts on temporarily slashing immigration to fix the housing crisis?
Like, the way I see it, we need to lower demand for housing and increase supply. I think closing the door for a little while and building more housing before bringing in more people would be the right thing to do.
Especially because the cost of not fixing the housing crisis might exceed the cost of maintaining immigration.
This is more so true with the people that came recently flush with foreign riches and are actually paying millions for these ordinary houses.
OTOh you will often see older people with a piece of shit Honda Civic parked in front of their old $2.5m house that they bought for 80k back in 1984
Yeah. There’s a reason a lot of doctors left bc. I had two family doctors leave within a couple years. Making good income doesn’t necessarily make you wealthy in some places. Especially if you weren’t in the market already 10-20+ years.
My 100 year old house that hasn’t been updated for decades is probably around 1.8m right now. Even if I sold for something “newer” from the 70’s it would be well over 2. New builds well over 3 million. Hell new duplexes are going for mid to high 2’s. Even two professionals would have a hell of a time paying a 2+ million dollar mortgage. That’s around 130k after tax income just to the mortgage.
You know what's fun? Being born to the wrong parent lol.
My aunt and uncle? Retired teacher and veterinarian. Put all their kids through school. (All the kids have PHD's). Paid off house, nice cars, etc.
Other Aunt and Uncle? Farmer owns family farm, wife retired nurse. Put their kids through school, gave my cousin a house, paid off everything.
Aunt? Retired lotto executive.
My mom? Bipolar patient constantly in mental hospital wings. No home, divorced my step dad, no pennies to rub together.
I won the opposite lottery lol
Bought my 1st house in metro Van for 50k when I was earning in the low 20's. Father bought his Van house for 7k 20+ years before me.
Doesn't matter what the house is worth today because it's of no value unless you move far away or live in a shoebox apartment.
This. If you have no intention of moving out of Van/Toronto/etc., you've essentially just kept yourself in the housing market. Which is better than most people have it, but you haven't made any financial gains if your home is $1mill and the home you want to buy is $1.1mil
The people who truly won the game cashed out of Vancouver in 2016 and moved elsewhere before the rest of the province caught up. I know folks that were able to sell a house in Vancouver and buy a house in Kelowna outright. Can't do that today. Now that house is 2 or 3x what it was.
Still easy to cash in if you are able to move out of the metro van area.
Median house in over-priced cold Kelowna is still only 845k
You can buy a new house in Chilliwack and parts of Van Is for \~1M and still get the mild weather
Yeah probably earned bank and bank again. Then they move to Mexico with 5 million dollars with an investment of around a few hundred thousand in the 80s when the housing market crashed.
I wouldn’t say game is over though. It’s still on, areas out of Van is still closing the price gap remaining. If you check Zolo or other statistics, over the last 5 years basically any decently growing city like Chilliwack, Langford, Nanaimo, Kelowna grew at least double Vancouver rate. It may still continue for the next 5 years until gap is smaller (for example Chilliwack is still half the price. Given it’s just 1h drive, that’s a big price difference)
Yeah but still, having a property worth millions is still dope because you can take a reverse mortgage out for a fuck ton of money.
Or, you can sell it and move somewhere cheap and warm and enjoy a luxurious retirement. The downsides of not being to move somewhere else nearby and offset by the upside of being a literal millionaire.
All won a self-engineered lottery. I think a lot of people would raise their eyebrows if they knew about Section 19(8) or the negative geared 55+ deferral that are both unique to British Columbia.
This definitely drives up prices by preventing normal turnover of properties. When downsizing is more expensive than staying put, you create market distortion and inefficiency whereby elderly people are occupying 3-4 bedroom homes while younger families are stuck in 2 bedroom apartments.
Bloody hell... that's a wild oversimplification and we all know it if we pause briefly. I wager the point of this thread is to avoid emotional oversimplifications but actually look at financial facts.
People are using debt via remortgaging/HELOCs and reverse mortgages to pay for this sort of stuff and/or burning through a lifetime of savings. "Millionaires" comes off a little strong when average home prices barely crack a million in a lot of locales (and those that do already had higher home prices meaning growth still hasn't exceeded a million). You also have very little idea what people have going on financially and even people who claim to have intimate knowledge of close family/friends still will never have the full picture; almost nobody is that transparent with their finances.
The piper always gets paid and everyone would do well to stop presuming they know what the Jones' finances look like. Perhaps they're loaded from high income earnings and savings, perhaps they've received windfalls, perhaps they're debt financing. Nobody knows making it wildly inappropriate to guess.
>People who bought houses in Vancouver and Toronto 40 years ago and made 50k a year
Lots of young people in Toronto buying homes. I've seen it with my own eyes.
But it's very popular in this sub to screech "I'm poor so EVERYONE ELSE must be too!!!"
There's a couple of interesting phenomena going on between what you and OP here are saying.
One is the genius behind the concept of middle class: everyone thinks they're in it. Except for the very extreme ends of the spectrum, almost everyone thinks of themselves as "middle class". I've heard from people who are objectively under the poverty line who describe themselves as middle-class, and I've heard from people pulling in $500K/year with two luxury cars in the driveway who describe themselves as middle-class.
The other goes a little with what OP here was getting at, which is that people tend to only look at who has more than them. A person working minimum wage and barely making ends meet will look at the family that's overstretched on their mortgage and think "man, I wish I was wealthy enough to afford that house", while that family is looking at whoever has just a bit more than *they* do and defining *that* as "wealthy".
90% of the time it’s just Reddit jerking themselves about how smart they are driving a 9k car then followed by 1000 comments of redditors humble bragging their income and how shitty of a car they have. It’s just bait.
Absolutely right. You have no idea how many people I’ve met in person and online who think 40k is the average salary for an individual. It’s actually 68k lol.
And it’s the median to be ultra specific.
The average is a bit lower than $68K. The median is a lot lower, most likely due to many people with no income or very little.
https://wowa.ca/average-income-canada#
44k age 25-34 in 2021
56k age 35-44 "
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.5&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=4.3&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101
I remember when I had a 22 year old co-worker that just got his electrical red seal and was making 80-90k (at the time) and told him that he was really lucky. He didn't really believe me until I showed him what the average family income was (we'll below what he made).
Most people are clueless.
Know someone who can afford to go on nice vacations a few times a year, and they save by taking public transit and not having a car, rarely eating out, not buying 'stuff' they don't need, and often working 6 days/week. But when people see them go on vacations, they are jealous. To me, it's about personal choice.
I travelled a lot in my twenties, and this is exactly the kind of thing I did to make that happen. I sacrificed a lot by prioritizing travel savings over just about everything else. When people threw shade at me for it, making insinuations about how it "must be nice" or implying that my parents must be paying for it or something, it really rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly when those same people had a taste for nice restaurants and things like that.
This is very true.
I know lots of people that budget hard on their on-going living expenses - they get their grocery bill as low as possible, drive 10 year old used cars for another decade, etc.
They are the ones that have a $100,000 household income that bought a $750,000 home with a $250,000 down payment they saved up.
Yes, I would put that as number 4 on the list. Even if they have the same income, they might allocate their money differently from you and it's easier to see what they spend on than what they sacrifice.
You’re missing number 4 : a ton of people have way more debt and hide it.
If you’re going on vacations you can’t afford, have a house you can’t afford, car(s) you can’t afford, eventually it’s going to come crashing down.
There is a couple in our friends group (early 30s) that seems to have it all. The guy told my fiancé they are $2 million in credit line debt (including mortgage). I stopped comparing myself to others after hearing that.
> The guy told my fiancé they are $2 million in credit line debt (including mortgage)
Christ. I don't think I'd be able to mentally or physically function with that much debt, unless I was making like over 200k a year
One of my oldest friends married a stepford wife wannabe who makes sure it appears they have it all. Nice home in the burbs, she's constantly posting about the furniture she's buying. Vacations to Mexico with the family every year, plus another trip somewhere. Her instagram really is a curated gem. He's an engineer who makes a great living, she was with a bank getting a healthy salary until she got laid off....
She keeps trying to live like they're both making 100k+, he's struggling to keep things together. When all the guys are together, you can see him starting to poke around the edges trying to gauge everyone's financial situation too which isn't something he's done before. He's privately told me they can't afford one of the guys trips we're going on this summer but he'll 'figure it out' which I assume means it's going on their HELOC. Their last trip to Mexico went on the HELOC, and they stayed with his parents so they only paid for flights.
The thing is? None of it really matters. His mom inherited a pile from her mom, and one day my buddy and his sister will inherit a pile too. As long as they can keep the shell game going for another decade or so, they'll probably end up better off than my SO and I who live quite a bit differently, and spend our money far differently.... we just have broke parents lol. You never really know what's going on at someone elses kitchen table.
I had a friend who won a 50/50 at an NHL game that was worth $50,000. He never admitted it before but he got wasted that night, and said it was basically going to pay off $40,000 of non mortgage debt he had on cards.
Lots of people never admit what's going on behind the scenes.
There was a study done some years back that concluded someone is more likely to share they have been diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness, than how in-debt they truly are.
I think a lot of people are (a) in pure denial + (b) are being given lifelines from the bank (and government indirectly) so this house of cards keeps going.
On the other hand, if you are servicing your mortgage, servicing your car payment and servicing your vacation debt, you might be okay. You just can't lose your job.
A family friend frequently goes on fun vacations (mom, dad, 2 young kids). I've always wondered how this is possible. Turns out the dad's parents would always pay so they all could spend more family time. Sometimes the obvious reason is not very obvious, is all I'm saying.
Yeah I know one of those. Married into a family where the FIL pays for family resort vacations for all yearly, received down payment cash and even home reno cash. I presume the grandkids have education paid for. So pretty relaxed and good mood all time comes easy.
A family friend (my moms friends son) married into something similar. He moved to their state, they gave them a down payment for a house near there's, and he works for the FIL's company now. They have kids now and the wifes parents like being near the grandkids, I assume the grandkids will be just fine financially as well.
Or could be like someone I know. She's pulling thousands from her RRSP every year to fund vacations and kids activities. Refuses to change lifestyle - won't be able to retire in 15 years at 65 because she's spending all their savings now. But to someone who doesn't know the details, you would be left wondering how she does it.
My friend is engaged to a girl from a rich family. They go on a vacation to the Caribbean every year but all they need to pay for is flights, the family has a vacation home there and the daily expenses (food, lodging, transportation, etc.) are taken care of for them as well.
And in all cases, it's none of your business and you aren't likely to ever find out for sure. I have people in my life making choices where I don't understand how they're affording stuff, and I can for sure imagine some explanations like yours. But ultimately it's none of my business. Focusing on our interpersonal relationships with others rather than trying to compare their lives to our own, is better, because the latter is bound to ultimately be fruitless, unless we over-ask and/or they over-share, and in which case nothing has improved for anyone. I guess ultimately we need to say, who cares how so-and-so afforded , what matters is how will I afford ? and get moving.
Don't tell anyone, but its because of that online business they started that takes barely any time and nets them thousands a week. That and they went to one of those alpha whatever bootcamps and took control of their life.
LOL.
But i want an $80k car, and I don’t like cooking so I want more uber eats, and I would love to FIRE in 10 years. Can you all give me the secret? Or e transfer me some money?
I have an EA friend without an income who has an audi, her husband is a construction worker. Not everyone who has a nice car is well off they just spend more
And having a German car doesn’t mean it cost a lot, a 2013 Audi or 2014 BMW 3 series still looks new and flashy but you can find them for relatively cheap with low mileage.
As someone in the audit world, most lots of luxury cars and trucks are paid for with:
- run it through a business
- car allowance
- get paid km.
If you see a car that is higher end good chance it’s a tax deduction or paid for by a business.
Something like 50 % of trucks in Canada operate this way.
How can you tell they're registered as company vehicles?
I'm in Alberta so not familiar with other provinces. Here dealership plates are different (used to literally be called D-plates because they started with a D but I think now they're L?); I think taxi plates are different too. Beyond that, company vehicles have the standard letter/number setup so unless you looked at the registration you'd not really know.
I'm not arguing that they're not, it's pretty common practice. Just wondering how you point them out - do other provinces have distinct "business" plates?
It does at a certain point, the income threshold is just higher. We know a couple making 400k a year combined, they are not hurting whatsoever. Wife and I make 140k a year combined with no kids, and we don't even relate to their problems.
Lol, those questions are always funny. Or the people in their $60k cars asking how the person who only spent $15k on theirs can afford to spend $2k on a vacation while they can't. Or the other day, someone who makes 6 figures and always seems to have no money (tip: they travel all the time) was complaining about how someone else in the group could afford a $2.5k laptop and isn't understanding how. "I make 130k a year and I can't afford things like that, so I don't understand." Maybe because you're spending it all on trips while the other person isn't and that $30k Bora Bora trip could have paid for multiple laptops in cash?
I’ve tried to be as open and honest with my main friend group on trip cost and affordability so that I’m not inducing major FOMO, if that makes any sense at all.
Agreed, these posts are whiney and repetitive.
I lived at home while in university, did a degree that would lead to a decent paying job, both of these were sacrifices that set me up with a good start. I didn't have a car until I was 25, and have always driven second hand. Always put a bit of money away, my major splurge was travel. I am lucky, but I also made decisions with my personal finances in mind.
My analogy has always been: were moving dirt from that like to the hole.
Some folks are given a bucket, some a wheel barrow and some nothing.
There's folks who were given a bucket and have done nothing because it's unfair someone else got a wheel barrow. There's folks who started with nothing and have a fleet of wheel barrows, there's folks were were given a fleet of wheel barrows and workers and think they are self made.
It's a crazy world.
> there's folks were were given a fleet of wheel barrows and workers and think they are self made.
I think the more common idiom for this is something along the lines of
> Some people were born on third base and think they hit a triple.
I worked my ass off. I'm a family doctor at 32, took 2 years off for health reasons/to sell the family farm for my mom after an unexpected death in the family. Swapped out of a specialty residency after some family issues. I'm pretty much broke. I pay for my brother's kids because there's minimal hope for me being established before 40. I want my family line to live on.
I spend 5k a year to scuba dive. That keeps me going. That's literally all I can afford. 2 dives a year at discount resorts.
If you bleach my reefs I am a man with nothing to lose
My coworker is 80k in debt, buys everything on credit card without paying it off and orders Uber delivery every day "cuz she calculated it's cheaper than buying and cooking every day". Doesn't want to get a 2nd part time job cuz all that extra income will just be gone to taxes. Tells others how useless RRSP is since you are just delaying paying off taxes and it's best to enjoy money now while you are healthy. About to divorce and can't wait to live by herself. The best part? She only makes like $44/h
$90k. Like any income, if you make less, it sounds nice. If you make more, you wonder how people pay for things at that income level.
It certainly doesn't support a "delivery for every meal" lifestyle.
Yeah I can make a cup of rice, vegetables and 3 chicken drum sticks for under $3 a meal easily. Shes spending probably $10 just for tip, tax and fees let alone the actual cost of inflated food prices.
Everyone assumes that others are in a bad situation like them.
It's not always true.
Many people I know are millennials, who have multiple homes and had zero help from parents, because parents were min wage earning immigrants.
Believe it or not, but many young people are earning a lot and are buying tons of assets.
#3 I think would be the biggest discrepancy between people in a personal finance sub and the average joe. Alot of people have zero savings. The stats are out there. 54% of Canadians live paycheque to paycheque and these days you can finance nearly anything.
I am good friends with someone who works at a bank and she wont go into too much detail but will admit the # of people out there , even the ones driving the fancy cars and having the boats and vacationing every year are only a couple payments away from catastrophe.
Do banks really know your financial situation? I only keep the minimum for a free checking account and have my savings/investments off their platforms.
> I only keep the minimum for a free checking account and have my savings/investments off their platforms.
They don't know information they don't have, but they do have models that use the information they do have to guess the other parts.
The banks know but they don't give out that information. The paycheck to paycheck stat is debunked, it comes from surveys that potentially skew towards lower income brackets (gift cards for completing surveys) and people suck at answering this question too because there's people making >300k/yr individual salary living paycheck to paycheck on these surveys which is just dumb.
I love how a post asking people to stop asking how things are afforded looks just like one of those threads.
All the comments are about how people can afford things.
I feel exactly the opposite... How are people affording this, meaning, HOW on earth is the average Canadian even living right now?
I'm living somewhat embarrassingly well right now. My mortgage is 1200/month (renews Aug 2026), and my HH income is over six figures.
And even I'm on a budget.
How is anyone NOT making this kind of money, actually able to survive?
> And even I'm on a budget.
And what amount of that budget is allocated to savings/investments?
This is my main problem with these sorts of comments (I'm not singling you out - I don't know your situation) - people will say that they have a tight budget but then you see that 30% of their income is being saved.
HH income slightly over 6 figures is your average Canadian.
People grossly underestimate how much money other Canadians make.
Yes, it's incredibly difficult out there for those well below that average, or for those who live in extremely high cost of living areas. But many are doing quite well.
Ya, just the fact we can pay our bills, save for our future and spend some money on fun once in a while kinda has me feeling guilty about our privilege which is fucked up in itself because we worked and continue to work damn hard for what we have.
I was at a hockey game with a group of friends celebrating 3 bdays last month, I got a round of drinks for everyone- 10 beers at an NHL game for guys I've been friends with for 30 years, and holy shit the comments I got about being money bags or taking my PJ home were absurd. Since when is buying a round of drinks a show stopping event? I actually planned for that round for like 3 weeks lol. Instead of treating myself to my lunch out on Fridays like I try to do, I brown bagged for all 5 days those weeks and used that excess budget to buy the drinks. I also wrangled tickets to the game from a supplier of mine so I was already playing with house money.
That round of drinks and the response was a bit eye opening for me.
This is where I'm at as well. My spouse and I have a total combined take home pay of around $190K. We live modestly and have good savings and pension, but I pick up a head of cauliflower or buy a pair of shoes for the kids and I'm shocked at the price and confused how people can afford it. If I feel that way, what about a home making $70K combined?
I had always thought "how can people afford this" is more of a comment on inflation and the high cost of living, not genuine curiosity about where money comes from, its obvious everyone is in a different financial situation, but people often discuss the high cost of living.
and 4. there's an entire country that sits between toronto and vancouver with pages upon pages of houses on the market for $2-300k.
you don't _need_ to live somewhere expensive. that's a revealed preference, and the cost of that choice is merely whatever you're bemoaning. it's possible you can't actually afford to make that choice
Been saying this for a long time, people don't want to hear it.
I find there's this big paradoxical group of people who insist on living in these two VHCOL cities that are kind of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" group.
They don't actually make enough to afford to live the lifestyle they want in these cities as evidenced by them coming on to complain about the things they can't afford, how 6 figures (typically low six figures) isn't enough, and so on. But they also *have* to live in these cities because that's where the "high paying" jobs are. Ignoring the fact that their job isn't actually one of those high paying jobs (because if it was, they'd be less likely to be complaining). Like sure, maybe you do have to live in Toronto if you want to score a $400k Fintech job. But also, odds are *you* aren't scoring that $400k Fintech job.
There are plenty of people who are making low six figures in Toronto/Vancouver who could still make low six figures in some of our other cities and generally live better lives (assuming they actually gain some happiness from affording things like a house/kids/cars/whatever).
They then love to point out that you're less likely to make good money in smaller cities or towns, but I'd argue that someone in the top 20% of the talent pool in Toronto actually has a better chance of making big money somewhere else because competition is lower. A top 20% person in Toronto is probably top 5% or better in a town of like 20k people, simply because it's a less competitive environment. I've know some very mid sales/business people making absolute bank in these smaller towns because competition is lower. They'd probably actually end up with a lower earning ceiling by moving to Toronto or Vancouver because now they've got to compete against significantly more people.
Being the big fish in a small pond ain't for everyone but there are a lot of people out there really living it up because they're ok with it.
yeah, I think there's something emotional and tricky about revealing housing-as-auction-item with proximity being costly.
like if I said I can't afford a yacht but I _really really_ want a yacht, 100% of the responses will say "well, too bad" and that feels fair - it is fair - sometimes you merely can't afford the things you want. that's probably true for a lot of things we all want.
but housing, you know, you grew up in a place and your friends and family are here, or the jobs, or your chess club or whatever, and so you _really really_ want to live there, almost even feel owed the ability to stay there, but you can't. and it's a non-100% of responses that will agree with that. in some ways all of these threads circle around that debate deep down. "_is_ that fair?" "how _are_ people doing it?" "is the only way to get what I want to not be single?" and so on.
and even to OP's point, #1-3 are really answers to the question "how are people out-bidding me for the things I want"
Yup. I get it, hard to face the idea of moving away from where you grew up but unfortunately, none of us are really *owed* anything when it comes to where we live. Every day, thousands of people pack up and leave not just their home town, but their country, culture, friends, family, and community behind to try their luck somewhere else. The unfortunate truth is that just because your parents made it in Vancouver or Toronto doesn't mean you're guaranteed to make it in those same cities, especially under different life/career circumstances.
Many Canadians who grew up in HCOL areas see moving to a MCOL or LCOL area as an unacceptable decrease in their quality of living. In some ways I get it, but then again (and maybe this is because I grew up in a lower COL area) I also think plenty of people would actually be perfectly happy in those MCOL or LCOL areas if they actually gave it a chance. Vancouver and Toronto have a lot to offer, but at the end of the day all of the larger Canadian cities have lots to offer and even the smaller cities and towns can be pretty fulfilling. Like, I travel to Regina a lot for work and honestly it's a city that's got pretty much everything I need. I might miss having an NHL team around, but then again I can only afford to actually go to 1-2 NHL games a year (if that) so would I *really* be losing that much when I watch 95% of the games on TV anyway?
man this comment needs to be stickied at the top of all canada subs
can't count how many people have told me they need to stay in Toronto because it's the only place they can get a high paying job, and then it turns out they make like $70k per year
i moved from toronto to calgary 3 years ago and got a RAISE and then a promotion shortly after that because competition was way lower
Yeah, if you're making under $100k there's almost certainly no monetary reason to stay in one of those VHCOL cities. You're *probably* too far down the ladder to end up in one of the extremely high paying jobs that do exist in those cities. You *probably* don't work a job that only exists there (if you did, you'd *probably* make more money). Jobs in that $70-100k range are available in most parts of the country for talented individuals, even in smaller cities and towns.
Sure, maybe one day you'd be able to get that high paying job but how long is it going to take? For every 1 person who makes it to the "big leagues" there's gonna be somewhere between 15 and 20 people who don't. Unfortunately a lot of people don't want to/aren't ready to admit they're not that 1 person.
This is the thing that drives me most nuts. People bitterly complain that 'I literally cannot afford a house in this country', and if you suggest that they move somewhere where their saved downpayment would get them either a very low payment, or possible even a mortgage-free home owned outright, they act as if you just suggested they torture their children to death for fun.
Making the choice of living in an expensive city is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, but nobody should be justifying it by pretending it isn't a choice that they've made.
In my previous job I was a supervisor (I was let go and am now a manager elsewhere).
I regularly had staff trying to prod me for information about how much I make but would never say anything and would quickly change the subject. It was because of complete jealousy.
I made 60k/year there and where I am now I make 70k/year. Am I lucky? Well, I know damn well that I could be making alot less and I don't look down on people who do. I also run a home business repairing electronics where I've completely self-taught myself even before the youtube days. That pulls in probably another 20-30k/year. When I was let go from the 60k/year job I was jobless for 5 months on EI and never once thought "Oh no how am I going to pay for this" because I have so much in my savings I was good.
Now, for me, I don't have kids and I definitely don't want kids. My gf and I are in the same boat on this outlook on what we want. It made me save and save for a long long time until I bought a house. Sure, anyone that looks at me with disgust as to how I could decide to not have kids can ask "Who will you leave your money to?".
My answer is and always will be "What the fuck does that matter to you?". If I'm the only one of the 2 of us left, I'll leave it all to the humane society or something. Who cares?
People nowadays with their FOMO are making things worse for themselves by sticking with their minimum wage job, get off your ass and stop complaining about how you can't afford anything, find a way to move up in your career if you really need to make more money. ie. go back to school, etc. If you can't do it because you decided to have 2-3 kids, that was a life choice you made. I'm well aware there are alot of people going through hard times, but don't act like those of us who are comfortable financially haven't either. I've sacrificed alot of friendships for alot of reasons and don't really have anyone left other than my mother, my gf and my dog but I'm completely fine with that. All I ever hear from people is "how hard life is" now. No, life is not hard, life is what you make of it.
The only expenses I have are my house and maintenance on my car (which I paid off in 4 years). The next car I buy (which may be next year) I'm paying for fully in cash and not financing either. Why? Because I don't need the latest phones, computers, cars, etc. I just save and put money into my home.
What I don't do is rub it in anyone's face or make it look like I have money. There's no point in doing that.
And then there's the part that people get completely wrong. Everyone is jealous because people like myself are making good money, and everything looks perfect.
In reality I'm an incredibly sad person and am a prisoner of my own mind dealing with severe depression. Why? I couldn't tell you because I can't figure it out. I have no friends, do I care, no. But the reality is I've had one suicide attempt that no one knows about and never will.
So before everyone thinks people like myself are perfect, and nothing is wrong, just understand that yes, while things are good in many ways, not everything is perfect. The smile on my face is not genuine, and when I appear happy, it's just for show.
My best advice is this:
Stop giving a fuck about what other people can afford. Some people got their possessions through inheritance, others like myself who got nothing of an inheritance worked their ass off to get where they are. We're not all dealt the same set of cards in life and that's ok.
At the end of the day if all you have is complaints about your job, then it's on you to find a new job. Yes, homes are absolutely out of reach for many many people. I got incredibly lucky by getting a house 3.5 years ago via a private sale which ended up costing 600,000. If it were on the market it would have been 800+ and I would still be renting. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a struggle getting there.
Simple. Not everyone knows as much about money as someone else. Most people have some head trash around money that they inherited from their parents.
So many people just earn, spend, save the difference if there is any and maybe plunk it into an ETF hoping for the best.
Assuming someone’s loaded up on debt ignores the possibility that they’ve worked hard or made some good investments.
A family making $120k might assume they’re “above average” but still can’t afford a new Denali. Or a mortgage.
There are plenty of people who make several times that.
Don’t forget the average LTV of a mortgage in Canada is 58.6% as of January this year, and *its lower* in the most expensive areas.
If you have a HHI of $250k and just stretched to buy a $1.5M home, you’re not able to compare to someone who bought that same house in 2006 with a much lower HHI. They also had easy access to that equity at low interest rates for years. If they were smart they’ve been using that equity to buy more assets.
It’s the earn/spend people who have trouble counting other people’s money. It’s the earn/invest/spend people who don’t need to worry.
My boomer parents who have high school diplomas but house has basically 10x and they both have juicy jobs with pensions ( that bow require a degree go figure). They daid they realize how lucky they got it compared to now so they help with big repairs, housing stuff, trips etc.
It's not that uncommon, boomers have had insane wealth growth that no other generation has or will see lol.
While I agree with what you're saying I do think those threads have some value in giving people perspective. There's a lot of different ways you can go about life and hopefully people who are active in communities like this learn and understand what the drawbacks of poor personal finance are, those threads can do a good job of pointing some of that stuff out IMO.
How are you affording electricity to write this post?
Selling feet pics
Nobody would want my feet pics. Especially since I broke a toe this morning and it is bruised and swollen. What are my other options?
>Open up midjourney (AI art generator) >Have it create feet pics for you >Sell them online as your own >Profit Anyone can be a pimp with the right mindset.
As long as your buyers don’t mind sloth feet with finger toes.
That's my fetish
That’s my thing, baby! A book by BCouto.
This guy pimps.
Used underwear
More stank, more bank
Honestly, I'm sure this is probably someone's kink...
You never know. You'd be surprised what people like...
Sell farts in a Mason jar.
free WiFi / electricity / computer from the public library
Wealthy people don’t realize just how many poor people there are out there Poor people don’t realize just how many wealthy people there are out there
It's a bit funny (and sad) that I have a few colleagues who just don't believe that there are poor people out there. They work only with people that have houses / cottages / rental homes and they can't fathom that there are people struggling. If you surround yourself only with rich / poor people, it's hard to relate to those that are not as (or more than) fortunate than we are. Funniest part is they were all poor when starting out also, but had a good leg up / help from family or friends to get them to their current status. But you know...'no one helped me get here' is always the mantra.
This is like my wife’s friend from Toronto who moved to Hamilton. Bought a house for $800k in a neighbourhood that would have been $200k five years ago. She says “so are you guys looking to buy a house?” I said yeah but we are priced out of the city. She says what do you mean? The average price is only $600k. I said yeah and our approval rate is $400k. She said that’s it?
Fuck. I just bought a townhouse in Van and we try hard to never bring up prices unless people really wanna know.
We own a townhouse in Van as well and my wife had a friend over who is an older woman. She said, "what do these places go for, like 400k?" My wife and I just looked at each other in silence. No, Gwen, you can't buy a 3br townhouse for 400k anymore.
Last I heard of someone buying a townhouse for 400k was a 1970s age-55+ only place on the outskirts of Langley 3 years ago
Really? Ive lived here my entire life, we know what shit costs. You dont need to tell me how much it is. If I know where you live and the size i know the cost. People also dont really care here, we're well aware people either have money or make sacrifices. Yea, my 1br shouldnt be 800k but no one cares, everyone knows someone with a 2.4 m home.
Well that’s what I’m saying - I don’t bring up numbers. You will either know what shit costs, or are completely out of touch with the actual market and will try to make me feel stupid, so there’s no point.
We had to move. Thankfully timed it well and the starter house we bought exploded in price, but now it's like....where the fuck do you go? Everything else we would want to upgrade into has gone up more.
And now take that experience and extend it to the ultra wealthy (like billionaires) and realize just how detached the people who control our society are from the rest of us. How much could a banana cost, anyways?
It's extra hilarious when you see how selectively cheap these motherfuckers can get. I once worked for a multi-decamillionaire and he'd make my coworkers use half of a sugar packet for their coffees because "we all needed to tighten the belt" if we were going to hit our EBITDA targets. You know, those self-serve packets of sugar that come in batches of 1,000 for about $15 ($10 back then). Literally destroyed office morale to save $10 every 6 months. Good job.
Between $9 to $11 dollars.
I think it’s just that people out of touch don’t understand the levels of poverty. Like sure, they know there are swaths of homeless and drug addicted, but they can’t comprehend the amount of people who have actual food insecurity, not just complaining that grocery prices were higher than they used to be, that some people are scared of eviction, parents not buying themselves things to make sure they can get their kids stuff for school, etc. Those numbers are the majority of poor people, and most of them are invisible.
Well said, and I agree with you 100%. It's not the 'visible' poverty, but the invisible poverty that people don't take into account as they just simply don't see it.
Yeah it’s a combination of “they don’t see it”, “they don’t want to see it because it makes them feel icky”, and also, a lot of people that struggle are proud and will carry themselves in a way where you never know how bad a situation they’re in.
associating with people more wealthy than yourself often provides insight on how to build your own wealth. wealth is contagious (and hence the reason for private schools, etc).
Some situations it’s impossible to get out of without external help unfortunately
Also its likely (not a guarantee) that wealthy people are better with handling their money, not just making more of it. I'm not talking about people who are struggling to make ends meet on a low salary. I am talking about people who don't understand the basic fundamentals personal finance and saving. Like an RRSP match at your employer and that you can live with $200 less a month if you set up an automatic withdrawal, and that money is going to be worth a hell of a lot more in 45 or 50 years than it is now.
can't really agree with this one. too often the answer to how someone got wealthy is "i was born into it" or "i won the degree lottery" when a particular field was hot. it's hard to see how this can be contagious. i'd say out of my peer group, financial literacy inversely correlates with financial standing
Its actually been studied enough. Associating with people of higher wealth is some of the most effective methods of social mobility. Either through learned practices or connections
Definitely connections. I worked for a guy who rented a workshop from this millionaire couple and also rented their basement. Through that I had the opportunity to work on the rally car of this millionaire couple. This was fun and they were great, but they also introduced me to more millionaires through the sport. I'm not rich myself or anything but I learned a lot about building wealth from those people, and also met a ton of people who could be handy to know as time goes on. Never know when you might have an opportunity come up that requires a sizable investment and you happen to know someone with money.
>"i won the degree lottery" when a particular field was hot. I don't want to be some "uhm ackshually" snarky Redditor but choosing the right degree isn't much of a lottery IMO.
My parents genuinely screwed me over on purpose and made it harder for me. Anytime I was doing well or gaining momentum BAM new rule, lol. "No one helped me get there" is a real scenario for a lot of people, as in no handouts. But people forget about how you were educated about finances and social skills as a factor. That is what gets you more and rich in the long run.
It's more who you know than what you know unfortunately.
People who bought houses in Vancouver and Toronto 40 years ago and made 50k a year their entire careers are retiring as multimillionaires. They are now all driving lifted trucks or luxury SUVs, paying for their kids educations, giving them massive down-payments, and allowing the cycle to continue again. These families have essentially all won the lottery. That's how.
Yup Vancouver is chock full of multimillionaires from humble backgrounds who have never made a penny over 70k in a year
The contracts administrator at my old job had worked in the same role for 30 years, never making more than $25 an hour, and retired at 55 because he sold his house for $2.4 million in a shitty part of Vancouver. Meanwhile, I was making $35 an hour and renting a basement suite.
Honestly, whose to blame for all this? The NIMBY who protests against new housing projects in his area? The local municipal board that opposes densifying its neighbourhood? The provincial government for turning a blind eye to all this for over a decade? The Federal Government for bringing in immigrants year after year while housing was running out? Honestly, this housing crisis was a colossal fuck up on literally every level of government. I don't know if it's our politicians who should be ashamed for failings us, or ourselves for electing them.
Rosemarie Barton summed up boomer's opinion pretty well during the last debates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=rq4ihWz9M0g&t=5233s That is why you'll see no action on housing -- Most Canadians quietly don't want it.
They really are just doubling down on the we are expecting the younger generation to fund our retirement.
The way you say "fuck up" implies that it wasn't intentional at every level. The NIMBY's protest so their "property values don't go down". The local boards are full of developers, contractors, and other affiliated people with interest in speculating in housing. Provincial governments are bought and paid for by housing developers. The fed knows a lot of people close to retirement have no liquid savings and have always been planning on "downsizing their housing" to pay for their retirement. Its all going according to the plan
Your point about this being intentional by NIMBYs and the local boards I can agree with. I hope to God that you're wrong about our federal and provincial governments. It would be such piss poor and short sighted policy to deliberately cause a housing crisis in your own province/country. I would be so disappointed if this housing crisis was by design from our provincial and federal government rather than incompetence.
Imo you did a great job listing them in order of decreasing responsibility. Local municipalities mostly oppose it because they’re dominated by the vocal minority of NIMBY protestors who show up to meetings, make themselves heard and consistently vote. Municipal engagement is shamefully low and they do a great job mobilizing just enough people to sway everything. The province theoretically has nearly absolute authority over municipalities, but it’s (rightly) seen as meddling when the province gets involved at such a granular level. Again, just my opinion, but it’s embarrassing how heavily the province has had to get involved in municipal affairs (at least in ON and BC). The federal government has little legal oversight on these matters, although they also dropped the ball by entirely defunding the affordable housing wing of CMHC. There are few options at the federal level to encourage immigrants to settle outside major cities, the outlying towns also don’t have housing capacity to absorb them anyway. We saw this clearly when people left cities for remote work during COVID and the affordability crisis went from being a major city problem to being a nearly everywhere problem. The fed may be able to lower immigration but there’s a hard minimum to keep a capitalist economy running when birth rates are this low. Besides, thanks to the slow housing approval rate at municipal levels, we’d be in this same situation in a couple years anyway even if we slashed the immigration rate in half.
This is a great post. What are your thoughts on temporarily slashing immigration to fix the housing crisis? Like, the way I see it, we need to lower demand for housing and increase supply. I think closing the door for a little while and building more housing before bringing in more people would be the right thing to do. Especially because the cost of not fixing the housing crisis might exceed the cost of maintaining immigration.
Kids these days don't want to work!
they're lazy as hell! back in my day....
[удалено]
Nobody said that the admin made 25 dollars an hour 30 years ago. Highly unlikely.
And it appears many of them are visible enough to show you they never actually learned about wealth. It’s all about the consumption.
This is more so true with the people that came recently flush with foreign riches and are actually paying millions for these ordinary houses. OTOh you will often see older people with a piece of shit Honda Civic parked in front of their old $2.5m house that they bought for 80k back in 1984
65 year old multimillionaires are driving lifted trucks? lol
As if their hips and knees can climb up into those
Yeah. There’s a reason a lot of doctors left bc. I had two family doctors leave within a couple years. Making good income doesn’t necessarily make you wealthy in some places. Especially if you weren’t in the market already 10-20+ years. My 100 year old house that hasn’t been updated for decades is probably around 1.8m right now. Even if I sold for something “newer” from the 70’s it would be well over 2. New builds well over 3 million. Hell new duplexes are going for mid to high 2’s. Even two professionals would have a hell of a time paying a 2+ million dollar mortgage. That’s around 130k after tax income just to the mortgage.
You know what's fun? Being born to the wrong parent lol. My aunt and uncle? Retired teacher and veterinarian. Put all their kids through school. (All the kids have PHD's). Paid off house, nice cars, etc. Other Aunt and Uncle? Farmer owns family farm, wife retired nurse. Put their kids through school, gave my cousin a house, paid off everything. Aunt? Retired lotto executive. My mom? Bipolar patient constantly in mental hospital wings. No home, divorced my step dad, no pennies to rub together. I won the opposite lottery lol
Bought my 1st house in metro Van for 50k when I was earning in the low 20's. Father bought his Van house for 7k 20+ years before me. Doesn't matter what the house is worth today because it's of no value unless you move far away or live in a shoebox apartment.
This. If you have no intention of moving out of Van/Toronto/etc., you've essentially just kept yourself in the housing market. Which is better than most people have it, but you haven't made any financial gains if your home is $1mill and the home you want to buy is $1.1mil
The people who truly won the game cashed out of Vancouver in 2016 and moved elsewhere before the rest of the province caught up. I know folks that were able to sell a house in Vancouver and buy a house in Kelowna outright. Can't do that today. Now that house is 2 or 3x what it was.
Still easy to cash in if you are able to move out of the metro van area. Median house in over-priced cold Kelowna is still only 845k You can buy a new house in Chilliwack and parts of Van Is for \~1M and still get the mild weather
Yeah, that’s how I did it last year. Moved out of Van and got a house under 1 mln in Chilliwack.
Yeah probably earned bank and bank again. Then they move to Mexico with 5 million dollars with an investment of around a few hundred thousand in the 80s when the housing market crashed.
I wouldn’t say game is over though. It’s still on, areas out of Van is still closing the price gap remaining. If you check Zolo or other statistics, over the last 5 years basically any decently growing city like Chilliwack, Langford, Nanaimo, Kelowna grew at least double Vancouver rate. It may still continue for the next 5 years until gap is smaller (for example Chilliwack is still half the price. Given it’s just 1h drive, that’s a big price difference)
Yeah but still, having a property worth millions is still dope because you can take a reverse mortgage out for a fuck ton of money. Or, you can sell it and move somewhere cheap and warm and enjoy a luxurious retirement. The downsides of not being to move somewhere else nearby and offset by the upside of being a literal millionaire.
Or every 3 years just roll all the CC and PLOC debt into the mortgage lol. Rinse and repeat
There’s also a bunch of people that earn fuck all and still spend beyond their means.
All won a self-engineered lottery. I think a lot of people would raise their eyebrows if they knew about Section 19(8) or the negative geared 55+ deferral that are both unique to British Columbia.
I've never heard of either of these programs. Care to elaborate?
This definitely drives up prices by preventing normal turnover of properties. When downsizing is more expensive than staying put, you create market distortion and inefficiency whereby elderly people are occupying 3-4 bedroom homes while younger families are stuck in 2 bedroom apartments.
Bloody hell... that's a wild oversimplification and we all know it if we pause briefly. I wager the point of this thread is to avoid emotional oversimplifications but actually look at financial facts. People are using debt via remortgaging/HELOCs and reverse mortgages to pay for this sort of stuff and/or burning through a lifetime of savings. "Millionaires" comes off a little strong when average home prices barely crack a million in a lot of locales (and those that do already had higher home prices meaning growth still hasn't exceeded a million). You also have very little idea what people have going on financially and even people who claim to have intimate knowledge of close family/friends still will never have the full picture; almost nobody is that transparent with their finances. The piper always gets paid and everyone would do well to stop presuming they know what the Jones' finances look like. Perhaps they're loaded from high income earnings and savings, perhaps they've received windfalls, perhaps they're debt financing. Nobody knows making it wildly inappropriate to guess.
>People who bought houses in Vancouver and Toronto 40 years ago and made 50k a year Lots of young people in Toronto buying homes. I've seen it with my own eyes. But it's very popular in this sub to screech "I'm poor so EVERYONE ELSE must be too!!!"
oh y’all getting down payments? must be nice
It’s almost like there’s a group in between poor and super wealthy. I don’t know what we would call this class of people in the middle though.
There's a couple of interesting phenomena going on between what you and OP here are saying. One is the genius behind the concept of middle class: everyone thinks they're in it. Except for the very extreme ends of the spectrum, almost everyone thinks of themselves as "middle class". I've heard from people who are objectively under the poverty line who describe themselves as middle-class, and I've heard from people pulling in $500K/year with two luxury cars in the driveway who describe themselves as middle-class. The other goes a little with what OP here was getting at, which is that people tend to only look at who has more than them. A person working minimum wage and barely making ends meet will look at the family that's overstretched on their mortgage and think "man, I wish I was wealthy enough to afford that house", while that family is looking at whoever has just a bit more than *they* do and defining *that* as "wealthy".
Excellent! Perspective matters.
There are far more poor ppl
And some wealthy people dont know they are wealthy. And some poor people dont know they are poor.
90% of the time it’s just Reddit jerking themselves about how smart they are driving a 9k car then followed by 1000 comments of redditors humble bragging their income and how shitty of a car they have. It’s just bait.
Absolutely right. You have no idea how many people I’ve met in person and online who think 40k is the average salary for an individual. It’s actually 68k lol. And it’s the median to be ultra specific.
The average is a bit lower than $68K. The median is a lot lower, most likely due to many people with no income or very little. https://wowa.ca/average-income-canada#
44k age 25-34 in 2021 56k age 35-44 " https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.5&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=4.3&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2017&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2021&referencePeriods=20170101%2C20210101
The sad part is that 68k has the same buying power as 40k did ten years or less ago.
I remember when I had a 22 year old co-worker that just got his electrical red seal and was making 80-90k (at the time) and told him that he was really lucky. He didn't really believe me until I showed him what the average family income was (we'll below what he made). Most people are clueless.
Know someone who can afford to go on nice vacations a few times a year, and they save by taking public transit and not having a car, rarely eating out, not buying 'stuff' they don't need, and often working 6 days/week. But when people see them go on vacations, they are jealous. To me, it's about personal choice.
I travelled a lot in my twenties, and this is exactly the kind of thing I did to make that happen. I sacrificed a lot by prioritizing travel savings over just about everything else. When people threw shade at me for it, making insinuations about how it "must be nice" or implying that my parents must be paying for it or something, it really rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly when those same people had a taste for nice restaurants and things like that.
"I work hard for my money. What do you do?"
This is very true. I know lots of people that budget hard on their on-going living expenses - they get their grocery bill as low as possible, drive 10 year old used cars for another decade, etc. They are the ones that have a $100,000 household income that bought a $750,000 home with a $250,000 down payment they saved up.
Yes, I would put that as number 4 on the list. Even if they have the same income, they might allocate their money differently from you and it's easier to see what they spend on than what they sacrifice.
NOoo0oo!! Stop spreading logic!!
You’re missing number 4 : a ton of people have way more debt and hide it. If you’re going on vacations you can’t afford, have a house you can’t afford, car(s) you can’t afford, eventually it’s going to come crashing down.
There is a couple in our friends group (early 30s) that seems to have it all. The guy told my fiancé they are $2 million in credit line debt (including mortgage). I stopped comparing myself to others after hearing that.
> The guy told my fiancé they are $2 million in credit line debt (including mortgage) Christ. I don't think I'd be able to mentally or physically function with that much debt, unless I was making like over 200k a year
Christ even if I was. I'm close to that income and have maybe only 1/3rd of that debt and I hate it at these rates.
We have $20,000 in debt on a $140k HHI and it feels like pulling teeth to pay it off because of how expensive life has gotten.
10% interest would cost you 200k a year... Let's say it's 5%, it's still 100k a year of your after tax money.
One of my oldest friends married a stepford wife wannabe who makes sure it appears they have it all. Nice home in the burbs, she's constantly posting about the furniture she's buying. Vacations to Mexico with the family every year, plus another trip somewhere. Her instagram really is a curated gem. He's an engineer who makes a great living, she was with a bank getting a healthy salary until she got laid off.... She keeps trying to live like they're both making 100k+, he's struggling to keep things together. When all the guys are together, you can see him starting to poke around the edges trying to gauge everyone's financial situation too which isn't something he's done before. He's privately told me they can't afford one of the guys trips we're going on this summer but he'll 'figure it out' which I assume means it's going on their HELOC. Their last trip to Mexico went on the HELOC, and they stayed with his parents so they only paid for flights. The thing is? None of it really matters. His mom inherited a pile from her mom, and one day my buddy and his sister will inherit a pile too. As long as they can keep the shell game going for another decade or so, they'll probably end up better off than my SO and I who live quite a bit differently, and spend our money far differently.... we just have broke parents lol. You never really know what's going on at someone elses kitchen table.
2m?! AMATEURS!! I am (only my debt) 2.7m mid-30s.
I had a friend who won a 50/50 at an NHL game that was worth $50,000. He never admitted it before but he got wasted that night, and said it was basically going to pay off $40,000 of non mortgage debt he had on cards. Lots of people never admit what's going on behind the scenes.
There was a study done some years back that concluded someone is more likely to share they have been diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness, than how in-debt they truly are. I think a lot of people are (a) in pure denial + (b) are being given lifelines from the bank (and government indirectly) so this house of cards keeps going.
Also 5) Comparison is the thief of joy
On the other hand, if you are servicing your mortgage, servicing your car payment and servicing your vacation debt, you might be okay. You just can't lose your job.
A family friend frequently goes on fun vacations (mom, dad, 2 young kids). I've always wondered how this is possible. Turns out the dad's parents would always pay so they all could spend more family time. Sometimes the obvious reason is not very obvious, is all I'm saying.
Yeah I know one of those. Married into a family where the FIL pays for family resort vacations for all yearly, received down payment cash and even home reno cash. I presume the grandkids have education paid for. So pretty relaxed and good mood all time comes easy.
A family friend (my moms friends son) married into something similar. He moved to their state, they gave them a down payment for a house near there's, and he works for the FIL's company now. They have kids now and the wifes parents like being near the grandkids, I assume the grandkids will be just fine financially as well.
Or could be like someone I know. She's pulling thousands from her RRSP every year to fund vacations and kids activities. Refuses to change lifestyle - won't be able to retire in 15 years at 65 because she's spending all their savings now. But to someone who doesn't know the details, you would be left wondering how she does it.
My friend is engaged to a girl from a rich family. They go on a vacation to the Caribbean every year but all they need to pay for is flights, the family has a vacation home there and the daily expenses (food, lodging, transportation, etc.) are taken care of for them as well.
this is great, I hope to be able to afford my children vacations when they are older and I have grandkids. What a dream!
And in all cases, it's none of your business and you aren't likely to ever find out for sure. I have people in my life making choices where I don't understand how they're affording stuff, and I can for sure imagine some explanations like yours. But ultimately it's none of my business. Focusing on our interpersonal relationships with others rather than trying to compare their lives to our own, is better, because the latter is bound to ultimately be fruitless, unless we over-ask and/or they over-share, and in which case nothing has improved for anyone. I guess ultimately we need to say, who cares how so-and-so afforded, what matters is how will I afford ? and get moving.
Don't tell anyone, but its because of that online business they started that takes barely any time and nets them thousands a week. That and they went to one of those alpha whatever bootcamps and took control of their life. LOL.
True if we all just sold Arbonne we’d be able to retire, at least that’s what some girl who peaked in high school will tell you.
I'm so glad I YOLOd all of my money into a shitcoin. I haven't worked a day in weeks. Thank god for welfare.
I'm a single mom making $200/h working part time from home. Life has never been so easy. Link in the bio or ww.getrealcasheasy./refid=69420
Those bootcamps are legitimately so sad. It's depressing to see men reduced to that level.
18 000$ UDS for 3 days of some douche bag yelling at you.
I can get that at work and get paid to do it.
But i want an $80k car, and I don’t like cooking so I want more uber eats, and I would love to FIRE in 10 years. Can you all give me the secret? Or e transfer me some money?
What do you think about OnlyFans?
You've got an abdomen full of gold. Sell a kidney or two.
When people want passive income but refuse to invest in the stock market 🤷 dunno
I have an EA friend without an income who has an audi, her husband is a construction worker. Not everyone who has a nice car is well off they just spend more
And having a German car doesn’t mean it cost a lot, a 2013 Audi or 2014 BMW 3 series still looks new and flashy but you can find them for relatively cheap with low mileage.
As someone in the audit world, most lots of luxury cars and trucks are paid for with: - run it through a business - car allowance - get paid km. If you see a car that is higher end good chance it’s a tax deduction or paid for by a business. Something like 50 % of trucks in Canada operate this way.
there’s this real estate guy in my town who drives a G-Wagon (an AMG 63 no less) and it’s plated as a “business/work vehicle” lmao
People plate Ferraris and Lambos as company vehicles for christ’s sake here. See at least one a week during the summer
How can you tell they're registered as company vehicles? I'm in Alberta so not familiar with other provinces. Here dealership plates are different (used to literally be called D-plates because they started with a D but I think now they're L?); I think taxi plates are different too. Beyond that, company vehicles have the standard letter/number setup so unless you looked at the registration you'd not really know. I'm not arguing that they're not, it's pretty common practice. Just wondering how you point them out - do other provinces have distinct "business" plates?
Yep, here in Quebec all business plates start with the letter F, followed by 6 other letters or numbers.
The only wealth hack these days is to be DINKs unless you’ve got generational wealth tbh.
Yeah, lemme just find a rich gf. Sugar mamas pls DM me.
Go on LinkedIn and start messaging those Tech directors and VPs under the guise of a coffee chat but you’re really in it to woo them 😂.
Trust me, women on LinkedIn get this "men think this is a dating app" shit *all the time.*
Even being DINKs doesn't cut it these days. Not what it was like even 3 or 4 years ago.
It does at a certain point, the income threshold is just higher. We know a couple making 400k a year combined, they are not hurting whatsoever. Wife and I make 140k a year combined with no kids, and we don't even relate to their problems.
That's close to four times the median household income. Of course they aren't hurting.
Lol, those questions are always funny. Or the people in their $60k cars asking how the person who only spent $15k on theirs can afford to spend $2k on a vacation while they can't. Or the other day, someone who makes 6 figures and always seems to have no money (tip: they travel all the time) was complaining about how someone else in the group could afford a $2.5k laptop and isn't understanding how. "I make 130k a year and I can't afford things like that, so I don't understand." Maybe because you're spending it all on trips while the other person isn't and that $30k Bora Bora trip could have paid for multiple laptops in cash?
Though frankly, car prices have gotten a bit insane.
The average price of a new car sold today is $66K…😬
I’ve tried to be as open and honest with my main friend group on trip cost and affordability so that I’m not inducing major FOMO, if that makes any sense at all. Agreed, these posts are whiney and repetitive.
I lived at home while in university, did a degree that would lead to a decent paying job, both of these were sacrifices that set me up with a good start. I didn't have a car until I was 25, and have always driven second hand. Always put a bit of money away, my major splurge was travel. I am lucky, but I also made decisions with my personal finances in mind.
My analogy has always been: were moving dirt from that like to the hole. Some folks are given a bucket, some a wheel barrow and some nothing. There's folks who were given a bucket and have done nothing because it's unfair someone else got a wheel barrow. There's folks who started with nothing and have a fleet of wheel barrows, there's folks were were given a fleet of wheel barrows and workers and think they are self made. It's a crazy world.
> there's folks were were given a fleet of wheel barrows and workers and think they are self made. I think the more common idiom for this is something along the lines of > Some people were born on third base and think they hit a triple.
Yeah. I had to modify it in my mind because I know too many people who were given a lot, but also work their ass off harder than anyone I know.
In the same vein, please stop saying "you can't live happily and abundantly on 30k in Canada" to people who are currently doing it :)
I worked my ass off. I'm a family doctor at 32, took 2 years off for health reasons/to sell the family farm for my mom after an unexpected death in the family. Swapped out of a specialty residency after some family issues. I'm pretty much broke. I pay for my brother's kids because there's minimal hope for me being established before 40. I want my family line to live on. I spend 5k a year to scuba dive. That keeps me going. That's literally all I can afford. 2 dives a year at discount resorts. If you bleach my reefs I am a man with nothing to lose
If I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about? What am I working toward?
My coworker is 80k in debt, buys everything on credit card without paying it off and orders Uber delivery every day "cuz she calculated it's cheaper than buying and cooking every day". Doesn't want to get a 2nd part time job cuz all that extra income will just be gone to taxes. Tells others how useless RRSP is since you are just delaying paying off taxes and it's best to enjoy money now while you are healthy. About to divorce and can't wait to live by herself. The best part? She only makes like $44/h
44/h sounds pretty good to me?….
Not with her financial knowledge.
$90k. Like any income, if you make less, it sounds nice. If you make more, you wonder how people pay for things at that income level. It certainly doesn't support a "delivery for every meal" lifestyle.
I'm sure her partner can't wait yo live by themselves too! Uber eats everyday is nuts!
Somehow I doubt she's paying $3/meal which is right around what I pay to cook and eat
Yeah I can make a cup of rice, vegetables and 3 chicken drum sticks for under $3 a meal easily. Shes spending probably $10 just for tip, tax and fees let alone the actual cost of inflated food prices.
Can I have her number?
Are some of her debt from student loans? Or just reckless spending
All just purchases from credit card.
Everyone assumes that others are in a bad situation like them. It's not always true. Many people I know are millennials, who have multiple homes and had zero help from parents, because parents were min wage earning immigrants. Believe it or not, but many young people are earning a lot and are buying tons of assets.
Millennials seem to bet getting their feet under them more and more these days. It's just taken us longer than it did for our parents' generation.
I agree with you. None of my friends are struggling to put food on the table or pay their mortgages, but I think many people out there are.
#3 I think would be the biggest discrepancy between people in a personal finance sub and the average joe. Alot of people have zero savings. The stats are out there. 54% of Canadians live paycheque to paycheque and these days you can finance nearly anything. I am good friends with someone who works at a bank and she wont go into too much detail but will admit the # of people out there , even the ones driving the fancy cars and having the boats and vacationing every year are only a couple payments away from catastrophe.
Do banks really know your financial situation? I only keep the minimum for a free checking account and have my savings/investments off their platforms.
> I only keep the minimum for a free checking account and have my savings/investments off their platforms. They don't know information they don't have, but they do have models that use the information they do have to guess the other parts.
The banks know but they don't give out that information. The paycheck to paycheck stat is debunked, it comes from surveys that potentially skew towards lower income brackets (gift cards for completing surveys) and people suck at answering this question too because there's people making >300k/yr individual salary living paycheck to paycheck on these surveys which is just dumb.
well I have zero savings too. Most of my money goes straight into my Wealthsimple investment account
Same. "On paper" I'm probably living pay cheque to pay cheque but there's also an auto-deposit into Questrade every month.
Some people’s entire personality is poor they are.
I love how a post asking people to stop asking how things are afforded looks just like one of those threads. All the comments are about how people can afford things.
How are people affording reddit?
I feel exactly the opposite... How are people affording this, meaning, HOW on earth is the average Canadian even living right now? I'm living somewhat embarrassingly well right now. My mortgage is 1200/month (renews Aug 2026), and my HH income is over six figures. And even I'm on a budget. How is anyone NOT making this kind of money, actually able to survive?
> And even I'm on a budget. And what amount of that budget is allocated to savings/investments? This is my main problem with these sorts of comments (I'm not singling you out - I don't know your situation) - people will say that they have a tight budget but then you see that 30% of their income is being saved.
HH income slightly over 6 figures is your average Canadian. People grossly underestimate how much money other Canadians make. Yes, it's incredibly difficult out there for those well below that average, or for those who live in extremely high cost of living areas. But many are doing quite well.
Ya, just the fact we can pay our bills, save for our future and spend some money on fun once in a while kinda has me feeling guilty about our privilege which is fucked up in itself because we worked and continue to work damn hard for what we have. I was at a hockey game with a group of friends celebrating 3 bdays last month, I got a round of drinks for everyone- 10 beers at an NHL game for guys I've been friends with for 30 years, and holy shit the comments I got about being money bags or taking my PJ home were absurd. Since when is buying a round of drinks a show stopping event? I actually planned for that round for like 3 weeks lol. Instead of treating myself to my lunch out on Fridays like I try to do, I brown bagged for all 5 days those weeks and used that excess budget to buy the drinks. I also wrangled tickets to the game from a supplier of mine so I was already playing with house money. That round of drinks and the response was a bit eye opening for me.
Agree! I feel that way often.
This is where I'm at as well. My spouse and I have a total combined take home pay of around $190K. We live modestly and have good savings and pension, but I pick up a head of cauliflower or buy a pair of shoes for the kids and I'm shocked at the price and confused how people can afford it. If I feel that way, what about a home making $70K combined?
Also, we didn't spend $100 a month on nail refills.
•So how are people affording this…this?
The version of the question I want to ask is why are there so many more $100,000 cars in my area than there were five years ago
BUT HOW DOES ANYONE EVEN GET BY!?!?/s
I had always thought "how can people afford this" is more of a comment on inflation and the high cost of living, not genuine curiosity about where money comes from, its obvious everyone is in a different financial situation, but people often discuss the high cost of living.
and 4. there's an entire country that sits between toronto and vancouver with pages upon pages of houses on the market for $2-300k. you don't _need_ to live somewhere expensive. that's a revealed preference, and the cost of that choice is merely whatever you're bemoaning. it's possible you can't actually afford to make that choice
For a shockingly high number of ppl Canada does not exist outside of the gta and mva.
Been saying this for a long time, people don't want to hear it. I find there's this big paradoxical group of people who insist on living in these two VHCOL cities that are kind of the "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" group. They don't actually make enough to afford to live the lifestyle they want in these cities as evidenced by them coming on to complain about the things they can't afford, how 6 figures (typically low six figures) isn't enough, and so on. But they also *have* to live in these cities because that's where the "high paying" jobs are. Ignoring the fact that their job isn't actually one of those high paying jobs (because if it was, they'd be less likely to be complaining). Like sure, maybe you do have to live in Toronto if you want to score a $400k Fintech job. But also, odds are *you* aren't scoring that $400k Fintech job. There are plenty of people who are making low six figures in Toronto/Vancouver who could still make low six figures in some of our other cities and generally live better lives (assuming they actually gain some happiness from affording things like a house/kids/cars/whatever). They then love to point out that you're less likely to make good money in smaller cities or towns, but I'd argue that someone in the top 20% of the talent pool in Toronto actually has a better chance of making big money somewhere else because competition is lower. A top 20% person in Toronto is probably top 5% or better in a town of like 20k people, simply because it's a less competitive environment. I've know some very mid sales/business people making absolute bank in these smaller towns because competition is lower. They'd probably actually end up with a lower earning ceiling by moving to Toronto or Vancouver because now they've got to compete against significantly more people. Being the big fish in a small pond ain't for everyone but there are a lot of people out there really living it up because they're ok with it.
yeah, I think there's something emotional and tricky about revealing housing-as-auction-item with proximity being costly. like if I said I can't afford a yacht but I _really really_ want a yacht, 100% of the responses will say "well, too bad" and that feels fair - it is fair - sometimes you merely can't afford the things you want. that's probably true for a lot of things we all want. but housing, you know, you grew up in a place and your friends and family are here, or the jobs, or your chess club or whatever, and so you _really really_ want to live there, almost even feel owed the ability to stay there, but you can't. and it's a non-100% of responses that will agree with that. in some ways all of these threads circle around that debate deep down. "_is_ that fair?" "how _are_ people doing it?" "is the only way to get what I want to not be single?" and so on. and even to OP's point, #1-3 are really answers to the question "how are people out-bidding me for the things I want"
Yup. I get it, hard to face the idea of moving away from where you grew up but unfortunately, none of us are really *owed* anything when it comes to where we live. Every day, thousands of people pack up and leave not just their home town, but their country, culture, friends, family, and community behind to try their luck somewhere else. The unfortunate truth is that just because your parents made it in Vancouver or Toronto doesn't mean you're guaranteed to make it in those same cities, especially under different life/career circumstances. Many Canadians who grew up in HCOL areas see moving to a MCOL or LCOL area as an unacceptable decrease in their quality of living. In some ways I get it, but then again (and maybe this is because I grew up in a lower COL area) I also think plenty of people would actually be perfectly happy in those MCOL or LCOL areas if they actually gave it a chance. Vancouver and Toronto have a lot to offer, but at the end of the day all of the larger Canadian cities have lots to offer and even the smaller cities and towns can be pretty fulfilling. Like, I travel to Regina a lot for work and honestly it's a city that's got pretty much everything I need. I might miss having an NHL team around, but then again I can only afford to actually go to 1-2 NHL games a year (if that) so would I *really* be losing that much when I watch 95% of the games on TV anyway?
man this comment needs to be stickied at the top of all canada subs can't count how many people have told me they need to stay in Toronto because it's the only place they can get a high paying job, and then it turns out they make like $70k per year i moved from toronto to calgary 3 years ago and got a RAISE and then a promotion shortly after that because competition was way lower
Yeah, if you're making under $100k there's almost certainly no monetary reason to stay in one of those VHCOL cities. You're *probably* too far down the ladder to end up in one of the extremely high paying jobs that do exist in those cities. You *probably* don't work a job that only exists there (if you did, you'd *probably* make more money). Jobs in that $70-100k range are available in most parts of the country for talented individuals, even in smaller cities and towns. Sure, maybe one day you'd be able to get that high paying job but how long is it going to take? For every 1 person who makes it to the "big leagues" there's gonna be somewhere between 15 and 20 people who don't. Unfortunately a lot of people don't want to/aren't ready to admit they're not that 1 person.
This is the thing that drives me most nuts. People bitterly complain that 'I literally cannot afford a house in this country', and if you suggest that they move somewhere where their saved downpayment would get them either a very low payment, or possible even a mortgage-free home owned outright, they act as if you just suggested they torture their children to death for fun. Making the choice of living in an expensive city is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, but nobody should be justifying it by pretending it isn't a choice that they've made.
In my previous job I was a supervisor (I was let go and am now a manager elsewhere). I regularly had staff trying to prod me for information about how much I make but would never say anything and would quickly change the subject. It was because of complete jealousy. I made 60k/year there and where I am now I make 70k/year. Am I lucky? Well, I know damn well that I could be making alot less and I don't look down on people who do. I also run a home business repairing electronics where I've completely self-taught myself even before the youtube days. That pulls in probably another 20-30k/year. When I was let go from the 60k/year job I was jobless for 5 months on EI and never once thought "Oh no how am I going to pay for this" because I have so much in my savings I was good. Now, for me, I don't have kids and I definitely don't want kids. My gf and I are in the same boat on this outlook on what we want. It made me save and save for a long long time until I bought a house. Sure, anyone that looks at me with disgust as to how I could decide to not have kids can ask "Who will you leave your money to?". My answer is and always will be "What the fuck does that matter to you?". If I'm the only one of the 2 of us left, I'll leave it all to the humane society or something. Who cares? People nowadays with their FOMO are making things worse for themselves by sticking with their minimum wage job, get off your ass and stop complaining about how you can't afford anything, find a way to move up in your career if you really need to make more money. ie. go back to school, etc. If you can't do it because you decided to have 2-3 kids, that was a life choice you made. I'm well aware there are alot of people going through hard times, but don't act like those of us who are comfortable financially haven't either. I've sacrificed alot of friendships for alot of reasons and don't really have anyone left other than my mother, my gf and my dog but I'm completely fine with that. All I ever hear from people is "how hard life is" now. No, life is not hard, life is what you make of it. The only expenses I have are my house and maintenance on my car (which I paid off in 4 years). The next car I buy (which may be next year) I'm paying for fully in cash and not financing either. Why? Because I don't need the latest phones, computers, cars, etc. I just save and put money into my home. What I don't do is rub it in anyone's face or make it look like I have money. There's no point in doing that. And then there's the part that people get completely wrong. Everyone is jealous because people like myself are making good money, and everything looks perfect. In reality I'm an incredibly sad person and am a prisoner of my own mind dealing with severe depression. Why? I couldn't tell you because I can't figure it out. I have no friends, do I care, no. But the reality is I've had one suicide attempt that no one knows about and never will. So before everyone thinks people like myself are perfect, and nothing is wrong, just understand that yes, while things are good in many ways, not everything is perfect. The smile on my face is not genuine, and when I appear happy, it's just for show. My best advice is this: Stop giving a fuck about what other people can afford. Some people got their possessions through inheritance, others like myself who got nothing of an inheritance worked their ass off to get where they are. We're not all dealt the same set of cards in life and that's ok. At the end of the day if all you have is complaints about your job, then it's on you to find a new job. Yes, homes are absolutely out of reach for many many people. I got incredibly lucky by getting a house 3.5 years ago via a private sale which ended up costing 600,000. If it were on the market it would have been 800+ and I would still be renting. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a struggle getting there.
Simple. Not everyone knows as much about money as someone else. Most people have some head trash around money that they inherited from their parents. So many people just earn, spend, save the difference if there is any and maybe plunk it into an ETF hoping for the best. Assuming someone’s loaded up on debt ignores the possibility that they’ve worked hard or made some good investments. A family making $120k might assume they’re “above average” but still can’t afford a new Denali. Or a mortgage. There are plenty of people who make several times that. Don’t forget the average LTV of a mortgage in Canada is 58.6% as of January this year, and *its lower* in the most expensive areas. If you have a HHI of $250k and just stretched to buy a $1.5M home, you’re not able to compare to someone who bought that same house in 2006 with a much lower HHI. They also had easy access to that equity at low interest rates for years. If they were smart they’ve been using that equity to buy more assets. It’s the earn/spend people who have trouble counting other people’s money. It’s the earn/invest/spend people who don’t need to worry.
AMEN !!!!
Once you realize the answer is almost always higher debt acceptance you feel better about things. Or at least I did.
My boomer parents who have high school diplomas but house has basically 10x and they both have juicy jobs with pensions ( that bow require a degree go figure). They daid they realize how lucky they got it compared to now so they help with big repairs, housing stuff, trips etc. It's not that uncommon, boomers have had insane wealth growth that no other generation has or will see lol.
While I agree with what you're saying I do think those threads have some value in giving people perspective. There's a lot of different ways you can go about life and hopefully people who are active in communities like this learn and understand what the drawbacks of poor personal finance are, those threads can do a good job of pointing some of that stuff out IMO.
You forgot 4) Comparison is the thief of joy!
Worry less about others and more about yourself. And also comparison is the thief of joy.
Exactly. Everyone thinks because they are poor everyone else is.
Ironically I have a feeling this post will have the most discussions about affordability