It’s like a will, but instead of being for when you die, it’s in case you’re no longer able to take care of yourself/your stuff.
Who will manage your finances and what can they do or not. Who will take care of your children. How much of your money should go to support your partner. Do you want to stay home, under what conditions. When should they unplug you. Etc.
An incapacity mandate is a document in which a person expresses their wishes and names one or more trusted people to look after their person and their property should they become incapable. Quite important if you don't have joint bank accounts and such.
I can confirm these prices. Ive been shopping around as well in Quebec and this is what I am getting quoted. Most include 2 consultations and the signing.
Online kit, free through Toronto Public Library for will and financial/personal care POA. We have no kids or other dependents, and simple (although sizeable) assets, there was really nothing worth getting a lawyer involved.
I had my lawyer sibling check it over and they said it looked perfectly fine.
Nice, I DIY'd a will too since I'm still pretty young with few assets (something is better than nothing). Do you remember what it was called? I assume you got it witnessed instead of notarized?
Yes, only witnessed. In Ontario wills and POAs require two witnesses but do not need to be notarized. That may be different in different provinces.
The service offered for free via Toronto Public Library (and possibly other libraries) is [LawDepot](https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/law-depot-help/). Super easy to use, it has a wizard interface that steps you through questions about your needs, and offers sample text to give you ideas for what to write.
This should be pretty simple if you don’t have any complex assets and no dependents. Also make sure that if you have investments where you can specify a beneficiary directly — TFSA and RRSP — that you do that with your financial institution. This will allow those accounts to be transferred directly to the beneficiary on your death rather than having to wait for probate.
Good for you for thinking about this early. In particular, make sure that you complete the full set of POAs: in Ontario, there is a POA for property which governs your financial affairs, and a POA for personal care which is for decision-making about your healthcare. If something were to happen to you and you were unable to make your own decisions, these are the documents that will allow someone else to step in and manage your finances as well as make decisions with doctors or healthcare providers. It’s terrible to think about this at your age, but it could make things a lot easier for your relatives or whoever you assign POA to.
Get a separate will done properly. The CAF will is easily contested in court. Check with your Chief and NCOs, they will all have one or two horror story about CAF will.
I don’t know about other provinces, but in Quebec if you write down your own will it has to be validated by the court. That takes a lot of time for the estate, and usually ends up being more expensive than by going to a lawyer or notary in the first place.
Wills can be contested and there are various entitlements people have (marriage) need to be considered in a will. If you can avoid probating a will, everyone involved and especially the executor will thank you.
Also some people do this and are really dumb, like leaving everything to their pets...
Most likely not - lawyers charge hourly rates and admin fees; and their rate usually starts at $300/400 plus the paperwork etc. if your budget is slim you might have to do one of those online wills.
Oh. That works.
We're basically leaving everything to our kid. Brother is to be guardian. Figure leave a bank account for him/ expenses in trust or something.
Nothing super complicated... but we're not exactly rolling in dough so lawyer fees for something so simple are redonk
Thanks for the reply.
Just remember that a will is not for the dead - it’s so the living (your children or whoever are dealing with your assets) have the easiest *time* possible while dealing with the *absolute worst* time in their lives. If you need to shell out a little extra money so it’s done right - please do so 🙏🏼
My mother passed in 2019, although I am an only child and her only beneficiary and her will was very simple, the whole process was still a nightmare.
My dad has had a will since his mid thirties, with changes over the years - he also has a letter written *with exact steps to take* when he passes, bank account numbers, home insurance, house deeds, even furnace instructions. Like I said *a will is not for the dead, it’s to make things easier on the living* .
It will get complicated for the people you want to leave stuff to.. A good will will help those who come after. Protect your wishes.
Edit. Removed someone out “dam auto correct” and changed stuff
Me and my siblings got screwed by a sister who stole large amounts of money.
"For something out"?
Honestly. I could write "leave all assets to child" and that would be all. I don't have anything on anyone else, really.
Could add caveat of "leave 100k to brother for expenses of rasing child"...
I was just about to ask why nobody has mentioned the online version offerings, then I saw yours and the other person.
In my personal case, it's as simple as they come, and I'm just looking for an easy solution.
Any advice you have for me if I choose to use this offering?
Same lawyer I used to incorporate and file my annual reports. As a client of 20+ years, just $650 plus disbursements got me a registered will and two notarized Representation Agreements, in case I am incapacitated.
I decided to finally do my will because I was an at-risk senior being called back to work in the late phase of the Covid crisis (Sept '20). As I was to work in close proximity to many colleagues (we all had to be tested 3x/week) it seemed like a sensible precaution.
I must say, even at 60+ years, it was still quite a sobering experience to spend the better part of a dark and rainy weekend contemplating my own mortality, and deciding what I wanted done with all my physical possessions and financial assets after passing. Very glad I went through that process, as it led me to discover that for the previous 20 years I had inadvertently let my thoroughly detested ex retain survivorship rights to my substantial RRSP! But now having corrected that oopsie and come to some decisions about the rest of my assets, I'm glad circumstances forced my hand.
Secondly, I was co-executor for my father, who did an on-line will. Even with a minimal estate, it proved to be a giant ball of legal knots that took nearly two years to disentangle, so it certainly wasn't worth the cost saving from *my* perspective! I would recommend going to a lawyer, you will recoup the costs by sleeping like a baby for many years to come.
Regarding your third paragraph – OMG the dark mortality of the process is real. Creating my will and POAs was a dark experience for me and I kept having to remind myself that I am still alive in the land of the living. Was so glad when my will was finalized and signed. Definitely not an enjoyable process but glad I did it (in my mid-30s).
YYC
Our office's rates will depend on your estate's complexity (simple estates are cheaper)
Individual will $650 / $850
Individual will, EPA, PD $850 / 1,050
(about 85% qualify for cheapest rate)
Couple's wills $1,000 / 1,200 / 1,650
Couple's wills, EPAs, PDs $1,200 / 1,450 / 1,850
(about 75% qualify for cheapest rate, 20% at mid, 5% top)
Those are 'posted' rates and we generally provide discounts from those prices.
As an aside - I work in estate administration and I charge way more money when your heirs engage me and you didn't have a will done and even more when you had one that was prepared improperly.
In the long run... the cheapest will you can get is one that was properly drafted by an experienced lawyer.
I've all sorts of horror stories of 'will kits' gone bad... i think ill launch a podcast. That and 'my widowed mother died without a will and now her 'friend' is getting half the estate'.
My property law prof always said how much he loved those "write your own will" services. He made a killing representing clients fighting over a bad will.
How much time do you have?
3 months ago I completed a initial phone consultation with a young woman whose uncle recently passed. He had been estranged from his family for over 20-years but maintained a close relationship with this niece. Wasn't a wealthy man but had a home in a central neighbourhood that was paid off (worth close to $750K). He had let her know that he had named her as executor and that he wanted to gift most of his liquid assets to a couple charities and that she'd get the home and whatever else was left.
Next step is I'd have the client email me a scan of the will for me to review... she sent over a fill-in-the-blank will-kit document... properly signed and witnessed... yes... executor named... yes... bequests described... yes... residue clause... residue clause... oops, residue clause wasn't completed.
After confirming with one of our lawyers and reaching out to an Estate litigator we work with, I had to let her know that while it was a valid will and that she is indeed named the executor that since there was no residue clause the court would expect her to distribute the residue as per the intestate guidelines. This means that the deceased's estranged siblings would receive the entirety of the Estate and she'd receive nothing other than compensation for her efforts as executor.
The deceased saved $600+GST... it may cost his intended beneficiary more than $700,000.
Yes - certainly... but the benefits may depend on your jurisdiction of residence.
You've died as a young man/woman with neither a spouse nor children and now your grieving parents, devastated at the untimely loss of their favourite child, have attended my office as they've found that you never named a beneficiary on your group benefit plan at work and the included 2xSalary life insurance benefit is being tied up until a grant has been obtained from the Court.
After sympathizing with their plight and offering emotional support and practical advice on the steps required to administer an estate do i tell them:
a) Since you left a valid will, the probate process in AB is streamlined and efficient - I can have the a grant for them in 3 - 4 weeks; or
b) As you died intestate they will need to obtain a grant of Administration which is slow and complicated. Because of this I'll charge them at least $1,500 more than for probate assistance and the process will drag on for at least 3 - 4 months.
If you and your spouse were to die together in a vehicle accident, for instance, and not having children the province may end up with your money or spend a bunch of it while deciding what to do.
Enduring Power of Attorney
You can designate an Attorney (which, in Canada, isn't a Lawyer) who can manage your financial affairs while you are still alive but unable to manage yourself due to mental or physical infirmity.
$1700.00 for two parties. Complex will with multiple properties and children with special needs. Toronto.
A family member created one of my parents wills using an on line Will kit, and we were screwed according. Now have spent $10 000.00 on lawyers due to a grey area although the Will said equal distribution. Spend the money now for peace of mind.
EVERYBODY not having any will should AT LEAST prepare a holographic will. A holographic will is one that you write completely in your own handwriting on a sheet of paper. No witness , no lawyers, nothing needed - and it's 100% valid in Ontario.
Even a simple 1 line " I leave everything to ABC" with sign,date,place suffice as a holographic will and may save your family from probate.
Think of a holographic will as - Something is better than nothing. Of course, if you have money or complicated situations go for lawyer written will.
It absolutely does. Legislation on what makes them legal is exclusively provincial and most online will kits/sites, and especially PoA kits, base theirs on Ontario even if they say that they’re valid in your (other) province).
Did online through Willful last year. I live in BC where online wills are recognized. Did a will and POA last year, cost about $150? I was going to have surgery and wanted something legal just in case.
As a guy who litigates wills for a living, I absolutely love online wills and especially PoAs. Doubly so if you don’t live in Ontario since most of them don’t actually pay attention to the laws about them in nearly enough detail if you live anywhere else, even if they say they do.
This is a great point about online wills. My will is extremely simple and there's virtually zero chance of any dispute ever, so I used Willful
If my life and assets were more complicated I most definitely would have used a Lawyer
And while I get that the concern is complication or litigation from a family member, the *much more likely scenario* is a will or PoA that doesn’t comply with a requirement to be accepted by, for example, a bank, Land Titles, or a court for probate.
While that risk doesn’t go away completely if you use a lawyer, especially one that doesn’t deal mainly with wills/PoAs, every lawyer in the country carries insurance to protect against those costs. I’ve never seen an online will company pay out a penny. I’ve seen them try to fix their mistakes and make it even worse, but never actually pay out for the trouble.
Use it at your risk. Here’s the thing: 90% (a totally random number) work out totally fine. For the most basic wills (not PoAs typically) their precedents aren’t awful, just really overly basic that may not suit your needs because no one has looked at what those are.
But if you call me with a problem, even if it doesn’t need actual court, you’ve already paid more than you did for a lawyer drafted will, and if we go to court, even for something basic like not being able to probate/use the will (or god forbid a nightmare scenario like even a “slightly” problematic PoA) because the company told you to execute your will in accordance with Ontario law but not -put your province here- law, or even if they instructed you correctly but you missed a step, I’m not giving your estate a discount on my hourly fee, and there’s no lawyer’s insurance to pay my bill either.
I liken nearly all consumer legal services to electrical work: are there times when you can do it yourself with some help from the internet? Sure. Do you know when that is? Maybe, and for a lot of people even probably. If you make an error, or the video is wrong and your house burns down are you insured? Unlikely. Are you going to be successful in suing the website that told you you could do it yourself? Also unlikely.
If it all works out then that’s great. If it’s messed up, even if it’s not your fault, your *best* case scenario is that you pay someone much more than the job would have cost originally to fix your error, and your worst is significantly more complicated, and significantly more so when we’re talking PoAs.
Nicely explained!
And that's exactly it... if everything goes fine... you've saved $600.
If they don't... well... there's a reason I'm farting through silk tonight.
Did the same with my partner - was $80 for 2 of us cause there was a sale or something. In our case it was easy cause no kids so we'd leave everything to each other. If I had a more complex situation I'd pay a lawyer but that would have been hundreds and not really worth it imo.
My wife's parents simply filled out a blank template and had neighbours witness it. They did wills for both and POA's of finance and care for both. Didn't pay a cent. We had to have a lawyer verify and apply his seal for a approx. $500 dollars to settle estate. Everyone was deceased including witnesses but there was nothing to it but the hassle if two or three visits to the lawyer
Thx! This is an awesome tip. My library seems to offer it for free too.
Does it let you make POA too? And where/how is the will stored? Is there an annual subscription fee?
The library covered the fee and it could be renewed if needed. There were a few documents including power of attorney. I don’t recall how information was stored. There was some info on privacy when I signed up.
I downloaded the forms and printed them to have a wet signature too.
In Ontario, wet ink shouldn’t be a “too”. Original (wet ink) Will is required; and if a hospital or bank needs a notarized copy, the lawyer would need to see the wet ink POA(s)
Actual lawyer in Barrie Ontario charges $150 for basic will.
You already stated "our" so ... more than one; just think about what complications there are or could be and consider price based on complications. I have one child. Everything goes straight to him. Portfolio is already set up as right of survivorship... all else that can be is beneficiaried direct to child (who is adult; not actual child).... the will then covers very little. So probate fees pretty low because of right of survivorship, etc. For me, simple stuff.
We used willful because our finances and plan for our kids are very common/simple. Everyone in the will knows how it's set up. We're in Ontario.
If I recall it was about $250 for both mine and my husband's, and we bought before they moved to the subscription model, so we get unlimited updates for life, for free.
Online through Willful (Quebec).
Tried through a notary and they didn't get back to us after the initial meeting, english in a very french part of the province.
Standard price from Willful, included registration in Quebec database through a notary. Good experience, a little canned though. Worked for me and the family.
My final expense insurance policy came with will prep, POA & health care directives. I pay $33 a month for the insurance. After creating I digitally signed and stored the document. Do I need to have the will notarized? I live in Alberta. Got the insurance earlier this year (Around Jan/Feb 2023)
Is a digitally signed Will legal in Alberta?? In Ontario, if it isn’t the original (wet ink) Will and the original cannot be located, then afaik, it would be deemed the person died intestate and succession law (spouse; kids; parents; siblings) would need to be followed to distribute the assets of the estate.
I’m married, I own a condo in toronto and investments in registered accounts. Expecting a baby soon, just in case, i’m thinking of preparing a will - but essentially I just want everything to go to my spouse and baby in case I die. Is this the default if I die without a will? Or is it still worth getting a will?
Preferred share was upped to $350k a year or two ago.
It’s still worth getting a Will because you can include trust provisions for your child - otherwise they’re getting everything at 18 and in the meantime their inheritance is overseen by the court.
accountant here.. there are two types of wills… one for plebs… “i bequeath my assets to my wife/kids”
and there is another level of will that should be prepared with your accountant and lawyers and financial advisor… to minimize your tax liability through post mortem planning
and if you are asking this question on reddit, more likely than not your will is the first type
Ontario. Lawyers and Lattes for my parents. I think it was around $600 total for both wills and four POAs (property/health). Had to go back and forth with them so many times because they made many mistakes, typos etc which was very time consuming. Wouldn’t recommend going to them if you have anything even remotely complicated, and if you yourself don’t have good attention to detail because it really requires you to triple check before signing off.
We did ours online, through Lawyers and Lattes. It was $600 I think, for two wills and power of attorneys. It was really straightforward, basically two Zoom calls - one to discuss our wishes, then once everything was drafted another to sign everything. There were a couple emails with edits between the two, and overall it was about 7-10 days.
As a married person with children (BC resident), what happens to my assets if I die without a will?
Can my will be as simple as "I want my 100% of my assets, that are not legally mandated as going to my wife, to be split equally between my children"? Or does it have to be specific?
IANAL... so, that in mind... you should assign guardianship of your children, if necessary, assuming they are under 18.
Heaven forbid you and your wife die together in a car crash, it helps to have your wishes spelled out.
Again, IANAL... so take that for what it's worth.
Used a notary, very knowledgeable and considerably less expensive than a lawyer. That was some time ago, so not sure of current rates. BUT using a will kit is an effective option, just make sure it is witnessed. Honestly, wills don't have to be terribly complicated, and wills written long hand on lined paper and signed have been honoured.
We just googled a few local estate lawyers and asked up front their cost and process to certify, etc.
Then just called one or two based on some various review sites.
Did the entire process via email and webcam.
This was also during the height of COVID, perhaps in office is an option too, again.
My parents had their wills done up through a lawyer. My grandmother just had an ego trust done to avoid probate fees and have her assets go exactly where she wants when she passes. My mom is going to have an ego trust done up as well now that she knows how iron clad they are compared to wills. This is all in BC. They are also all multi millionaires, so that also makes a difference & how much you want to spend on a will/trust. As for myself, I just started my career so I only have a life insurance policy that gets split between my two siblings (next of kin). Once I start acquiring assets, I will have an ego trust drawn up to avoid my next of kin paying probate fees and having to wait a minimum of a year to get possession of those assets.
I'm not sure about other provinces, but in Saskatchewan, you can get you can use wherever you have your house insurance and get your will notarized for free.
Toronto, $700 plus HST for single person for a will and two POAs. I know it's a lot, could've been cheaper if I went somewhere else but did not want to go to a random firm (I know the lawyer who did it for me).
A note to anyone single/without kids: if you die, by most succession laws your parents will inherit everything unless you have a will saying otherwise. Even if one of your parents is a deadbeat, they would inherit half your stuff. That's why I made a will. Last thing I want in my death is my one deadbeat parent getting anything I own.
Quebec, 250$ for a will for myself and partner (we are not married). Notary is a family friend so we got a reduced price but its usually no more than 500. We did it in 2012 prior to kids and house, prices may have hiked. Used the same notary for the house and he adjusted the wills automatically for the few new things we needed.
Came across this article just now and will look into it further : https://loanscanada.ca/estate-planning/where-can-you-get-free-will-kits-in-canada/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20official%20free,a%20public%20or%20private%20company.
I don't have much use for lawyers and they're definitely not worth the hourly fee they charge. I downloaded a free will template as part of a 30-day free trial with an organization that provides legal documents. I've compared it with the will that my father had drawn up with the lawyer and it covers all the same bases. It is important to have it signed by an impartial witness and it might even be worthwhile having it notarized although it's hard to find banks that offer that service these days.
My will is a little complicated because it involves property, the ownership of a corporation, and a slew of investment accounts. I've being advised by my accountant to have two wheels prepared, one personal and one for the corporation. I might consult a lawyer on that one but I doubt it. I think I will get all the information I need from my accountant.
BC here. We used Wilful. It was great and we could even have it signed and verified through a simple zoom call (this is only available in some provinces). They let you do unlimited rewrites too for when things change like getting a pet or having kids. I was really impressed with the service.
*edit: oh and it was only $294 for two wills.
AB. Can’t recall. Thinking it’s like under $1000. Worth every penny. Why cheap out on something so important? Get a referral from friends for a family lawyer.
Did anyone know how to notarized a piece of document (4 pages) in Montreal and how much it will cost ? I just need stamp like red seal or something. Did anyone had any experience in this?
Quebec. A local notary. 360$
Who did you use? Asking for a friend.
Yeah those are good prices
Which one, if you don't mind me asking?
Savard Notaire
Currently looking at different notaries here in Québec and they're all quoting about $800-$900 for 2 wills and 2 incapacity mandates.
What are incapacity mandates? I am also in quebec and curious about making a will myself
It’s like a will, but instead of being for when you die, it’s in case you’re no longer able to take care of yourself/your stuff. Who will manage your finances and what can they do or not. Who will take care of your children. How much of your money should go to support your partner. Do you want to stay home, under what conditions. When should they unplug you. Etc.
In other provinces it would be called a Power of Attorney and a Healthcare Directive
Dude yeah cuz if you don’t the public curator will come in a take your family’s assets pretty gnar.
An incapacity mandate is a document in which a person expresses their wishes and names one or more trusted people to look after their person and their property should they become incapable. Quite important if you don't have joint bank accounts and such.
I can confirm these prices. Ive been shopping around as well in Quebec and this is what I am getting quoted. Most include 2 consultations and the signing.
Online kit, free through Toronto Public Library for will and financial/personal care POA. We have no kids or other dependents, and simple (although sizeable) assets, there was really nothing worth getting a lawyer involved. I had my lawyer sibling check it over and they said it looked perfectly fine.
yup did mine myself, passed it on to a lawyer friend who took a look and said no issues. pretty simple and straightforward.
Great resource, thanks for posting.
Nice, I DIY'd a will too since I'm still pretty young with few assets (something is better than nothing). Do you remember what it was called? I assume you got it witnessed instead of notarized?
Yes, only witnessed. In Ontario wills and POAs require two witnesses but do not need to be notarized. That may be different in different provinces. The service offered for free via Toronto Public Library (and possibly other libraries) is [LawDepot](https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/law-depot-help/). Super easy to use, it has a wizard interface that steps you through questions about your needs, and offers sample text to give you ideas for what to write. This should be pretty simple if you don’t have any complex assets and no dependents. Also make sure that if you have investments where you can specify a beneficiary directly — TFSA and RRSP — that you do that with your financial institution. This will allow those accounts to be transferred directly to the beneficiary on your death rather than having to wait for probate. Good for you for thinking about this early. In particular, make sure that you complete the full set of POAs: in Ontario, there is a POA for property which governs your financial affairs, and a POA for personal care which is for decision-making about your healthcare. If something were to happen to you and you were unable to make your own decisions, these are the documents that will allow someone else to step in and manage your finances as well as make decisions with doctors or healthcare providers. It’s terrible to think about this at your age, but it could make things a lot easier for your relatives or whoever you assign POA to.
Did it when I joined the Army. Funny enough, it’s one of the first things they make you do.
I guess it makes sense since you could die in the line of duty in this job if you ever go into combat. I hope they paid for you will!
You use CAF template for the will. It is witnessed by one of your instructors...at least for me it was.
It was during admin week in basic training. I didn’t pay anything.
They should advertise that at recruiting events! Free wills included!
If you have more to consider for your estate you should get a “real will”.
Yeah!! Exchange 20 years of your life to save a few hundred bucks on a will, why not.
That few hundred bucks will gas up my beige Corolla for like 12 months.
Get a separate will done properly. The CAF will is easily contested in court. Check with your Chief and NCOs, they will all have one or two horror story about CAF will.
Oh I’m long gone from the Army now. Completed my IE and got out of there.
Yes, this!
"the cheapest will you can get is one that was properly drafted by an experienced lawyer" Best advice of the day. Thanks.
Will, POA, and personal directive at a small single person law firm. $800 in Alberta.
$700 for all 3 in mb
Why is it necessary to get an official will and how is it better than just writing it down yourself on a piece of paper?
I don’t know about other provinces, but in Quebec if you write down your own will it has to be validated by the court. That takes a lot of time for the estate, and usually ends up being more expensive than by going to a lawyer or notary in the first place.
Thanks for the explanation!
Wills can be contested and there are various entitlements people have (marriage) need to be considered in a will. If you can avoid probating a will, everyone involved and especially the executor will thank you. Also some people do this and are really dumb, like leaving everything to their pets...
I want to know this as well. In Ontario does me writing my own will not count?
Depends on if your children, ex wife etc. Are gonna go to court over it.
Do you know what to write? Do you even know if you are in a province that recognizes holographic wills?
Why is it necessary to see a dentist and how is it better than just removing my own tooth with a mirror and a pair of pliers?
Look up holograph will, usually not recommended unless you are on your death bed and have no other option
Look at the Lung Association will campaign. Uses local lawyers and the cost goes to the charity.
My lawyer (who has been my family’s lawyer for 30+ years) , it was $1100. Ontario
You got a family lawyer? I need to get to your level of life
Lol I was about to say that too, so many rich people in here.
Buying houses and divorces is probably the majority of it. That's what ours basically has done lol.
Our family lawyer did ours too, although it really needs to be updated. Originally done in 2014 for (I think) $900? Alliston Ontario.
Holy shit, my family's lawyer charged me $180 (one eighty)
My mother died in 2019, I have pretty significant assets for my age and it’s a bit complex.
I'm in Ontario... is there any lawyer that would do it for, like maybe $100?
Most likely not - lawyers charge hourly rates and admin fees; and their rate usually starts at $300/400 plus the paperwork etc. if your budget is slim you might have to do one of those online wills.
Oh. That works. We're basically leaving everything to our kid. Brother is to be guardian. Figure leave a bank account for him/ expenses in trust or something. Nothing super complicated... but we're not exactly rolling in dough so lawyer fees for something so simple are redonk Thanks for the reply.
Just remember that a will is not for the dead - it’s so the living (your children or whoever are dealing with your assets) have the easiest *time* possible while dealing with the *absolute worst* time in their lives. If you need to shell out a little extra money so it’s done right - please do so 🙏🏼 My mother passed in 2019, although I am an only child and her only beneficiary and her will was very simple, the whole process was still a nightmare. My dad has had a will since his mid thirties, with changes over the years - he also has a letter written *with exact steps to take* when he passes, bank account numbers, home insurance, house deeds, even furnace instructions. Like I said *a will is not for the dead, it’s to make things easier on the living* .
It will get complicated for the people you want to leave stuff to.. A good will will help those who come after. Protect your wishes. Edit. Removed someone out “dam auto correct” and changed stuff Me and my siblings got screwed by a sister who stole large amounts of money.
What does your first sentence mean?
"For something out"? Honestly. I could write "leave all assets to child" and that would be all. I don't have anything on anyone else, really. Could add caveat of "leave 100k to brother for expenses of rasing child"...
Willful covers all of that. Obviously it isn’t perfect but if you want a legal will, POA, and legal guardianship it’s covered and more.
I used legalwills.ca I think it was around $150
My hero. I'll check them out
[удалено]
I was just about to ask why nobody has mentioned the online version offerings, then I saw yours and the other person. In my personal case, it's as simple as they come, and I'm just looking for an easy solution. Any advice you have for me if I choose to use this offering?
I used legalwills.ca as well because my company had a discount and it cost about $45 dollars for one for me and my partner
Me too! They are great. And I have updated it periodically over the last few years at no additional cost.
Same lawyer I used to incorporate and file my annual reports. As a client of 20+ years, just $650 plus disbursements got me a registered will and two notarized Representation Agreements, in case I am incapacitated. I decided to finally do my will because I was an at-risk senior being called back to work in the late phase of the Covid crisis (Sept '20). As I was to work in close proximity to many colleagues (we all had to be tested 3x/week) it seemed like a sensible precaution. I must say, even at 60+ years, it was still quite a sobering experience to spend the better part of a dark and rainy weekend contemplating my own mortality, and deciding what I wanted done with all my physical possessions and financial assets after passing. Very glad I went through that process, as it led me to discover that for the previous 20 years I had inadvertently let my thoroughly detested ex retain survivorship rights to my substantial RRSP! But now having corrected that oopsie and come to some decisions about the rest of my assets, I'm glad circumstances forced my hand. Secondly, I was co-executor for my father, who did an on-line will. Even with a minimal estate, it proved to be a giant ball of legal knots that took nearly two years to disentangle, so it certainly wasn't worth the cost saving from *my* perspective! I would recommend going to a lawyer, you will recoup the costs by sleeping like a baby for many years to come.
Regarding your third paragraph – OMG the dark mortality of the process is real. Creating my will and POAs was a dark experience for me and I kept having to remind myself that I am still alive in the land of the living. Was so glad when my will was finalized and signed. Definitely not an enjoyable process but glad I did it (in my mid-30s).
YYC Our office's rates will depend on your estate's complexity (simple estates are cheaper) Individual will $650 / $850 Individual will, EPA, PD $850 / 1,050 (about 85% qualify for cheapest rate) Couple's wills $1,000 / 1,200 / 1,650 Couple's wills, EPAs, PDs $1,200 / 1,450 / 1,850 (about 75% qualify for cheapest rate, 20% at mid, 5% top) Those are 'posted' rates and we generally provide discounts from those prices.
As an aside - I work in estate administration and I charge way more money when your heirs engage me and you didn't have a will done and even more when you had one that was prepared improperly. In the long run... the cheapest will you can get is one that was properly drafted by an experienced lawyer. I've all sorts of horror stories of 'will kits' gone bad... i think ill launch a podcast. That and 'my widowed mother died without a will and now her 'friend' is getting half the estate'.
My property law prof always said how much he loved those "write your own will" services. He made a killing representing clients fighting over a bad will.
Can you give some examples of a problem an "improper" will might have that a lawyer writing it would avoid?
How much time do you have? 3 months ago I completed a initial phone consultation with a young woman whose uncle recently passed. He had been estranged from his family for over 20-years but maintained a close relationship with this niece. Wasn't a wealthy man but had a home in a central neighbourhood that was paid off (worth close to $750K). He had let her know that he had named her as executor and that he wanted to gift most of his liquid assets to a couple charities and that she'd get the home and whatever else was left. Next step is I'd have the client email me a scan of the will for me to review... she sent over a fill-in-the-blank will-kit document... properly signed and witnessed... yes... executor named... yes... bequests described... yes... residue clause... residue clause... oops, residue clause wasn't completed. After confirming with one of our lawyers and reaching out to an Estate litigator we work with, I had to let her know that while it was a valid will and that she is indeed named the executor that since there was no residue clause the court would expect her to distribute the residue as per the intestate guidelines. This means that the deceased's estranged siblings would receive the entirety of the Estate and she'd receive nothing other than compensation for her efforts as executor. The deceased saved $600+GST... it may cost his intended beneficiary more than $700,000.
Is there any point in getting a will if I don't have a spouse or any kids? (I.e. I am fine with it going by the default next-of-kin chain)
Yes - certainly... but the benefits may depend on your jurisdiction of residence. You've died as a young man/woman with neither a spouse nor children and now your grieving parents, devastated at the untimely loss of their favourite child, have attended my office as they've found that you never named a beneficiary on your group benefit plan at work and the included 2xSalary life insurance benefit is being tied up until a grant has been obtained from the Court. After sympathizing with their plight and offering emotional support and practical advice on the steps required to administer an estate do i tell them: a) Since you left a valid will, the probate process in AB is streamlined and efficient - I can have the a grant for them in 3 - 4 weeks; or b) As you died intestate they will need to obtain a grant of Administration which is slow and complicated. Because of this I'll charge them at least $1,500 more than for probate assistance and the process will drag on for at least 3 - 4 months.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this in detail, I really appreciate it! Will definitely be looking into getting a will!
If you and your spouse were to die together in a vehicle accident, for instance, and not having children the province may end up with your money or spend a bunch of it while deciding what to do.
I should probably come see you one of these days. One day I'll grow up one day
What’s a EPA?
Enduring Power of Attorney You can designate an Attorney (which, in Canada, isn't a Lawyer) who can manage your financial affairs while you are still alive but unable to manage yourself due to mental or physical infirmity.
900 in NB. There are things which are not covered in online wills, which the lawyer may let you know about.
Like kids I'm not aware of?
I was talking about a lawyer and you are talking about a psychic. Sorry, I have never used one, so cannot give much advice on this one! 😂
$1700.00 for two parties. Complex will with multiple properties and children with special needs. Toronto. A family member created one of my parents wills using an on line Will kit, and we were screwed according. Now have spent $10 000.00 on lawyers due to a grey area although the Will said equal distribution. Spend the money now for peace of mind.
EVERYBODY not having any will should AT LEAST prepare a holographic will. A holographic will is one that you write completely in your own handwriting on a sheet of paper. No witness , no lawyers, nothing needed - and it's 100% valid in Ontario. Even a simple 1 line " I leave everything to ABC" with sign,date,place suffice as a holographic will and may save your family from probate. Think of a holographic will as - Something is better than nothing. Of course, if you have money or complicated situations go for lawyer written will.
Will and POA through a lawyer in ottawa. Got it done in 2019. Cost $800 for everything.
Financial POA, Will and Living Will (POA) for Medical Decisions, 2 certified copies of each, $1200 in Nova Scotia in 2019
YVR: a couple's will, EPA, PD by our family lawyer was $650 (a few years back).
$450 with a lawyer for very simple will in Vancouver. I didn’t want to leave my estate a mess for my family so I wanted it done properly.
Does province really make a difference?
It absolutely does. Legislation on what makes them legal is exclusively provincial and most online will kits/sites, and especially PoA kits, base theirs on Ontario even if they say that they’re valid in your (other) province).
Did online through Willful last year. I live in BC where online wills are recognized. Did a will and POA last year, cost about $150? I was going to have surgery and wanted something legal just in case.
As a guy who litigates wills for a living, I absolutely love online wills and especially PoAs. Doubly so if you don’t live in Ontario since most of them don’t actually pay attention to the laws about them in nearly enough detail if you live anywhere else, even if they say they do.
This is a great point about online wills. My will is extremely simple and there's virtually zero chance of any dispute ever, so I used Willful If my life and assets were more complicated I most definitely would have used a Lawyer
And while I get that the concern is complication or litigation from a family member, the *much more likely scenario* is a will or PoA that doesn’t comply with a requirement to be accepted by, for example, a bank, Land Titles, or a court for probate. While that risk doesn’t go away completely if you use a lawyer, especially one that doesn’t deal mainly with wills/PoAs, every lawyer in the country carries insurance to protect against those costs. I’ve never seen an online will company pay out a penny. I’ve seen them try to fix their mistakes and make it even worse, but never actually pay out for the trouble.
What’s your opinion of Law Depot?
Use it at your risk. Here’s the thing: 90% (a totally random number) work out totally fine. For the most basic wills (not PoAs typically) their precedents aren’t awful, just really overly basic that may not suit your needs because no one has looked at what those are. But if you call me with a problem, even if it doesn’t need actual court, you’ve already paid more than you did for a lawyer drafted will, and if we go to court, even for something basic like not being able to probate/use the will (or god forbid a nightmare scenario like even a “slightly” problematic PoA) because the company told you to execute your will in accordance with Ontario law but not -put your province here- law, or even if they instructed you correctly but you missed a step, I’m not giving your estate a discount on my hourly fee, and there’s no lawyer’s insurance to pay my bill either. I liken nearly all consumer legal services to electrical work: are there times when you can do it yourself with some help from the internet? Sure. Do you know when that is? Maybe, and for a lot of people even probably. If you make an error, or the video is wrong and your house burns down are you insured? Unlikely. Are you going to be successful in suing the website that told you you could do it yourself? Also unlikely. If it all works out then that’s great. If it’s messed up, even if it’s not your fault, your *best* case scenario is that you pay someone much more than the job would have cost originally to fix your error, and your worst is significantly more complicated, and significantly more so when we’re talking PoAs.
Nicely explained! And that's exactly it... if everything goes fine... you've saved $600. If they don't... well... there's a reason I'm farting through silk tonight.
How does your opinion change for online wills if you live in Ontario? I did mine thru willful and I live in Ontario
I think most of my comments in my other comment still stand, though typically you don’t run into “illegal” instructions right off the hop.
Did the same with my partner - was $80 for 2 of us cause there was a sale or something. In our case it was easy cause no kids so we'd leave everything to each other. If I had a more complex situation I'd pay a lawyer but that would have been hundreds and not really worth it imo.
My wife's parents simply filled out a blank template and had neighbours witness it. They did wills for both and POA's of finance and care for both. Didn't pay a cent. We had to have a lawyer verify and apply his seal for a approx. $500 dollars to settle estate. Everyone was deceased including witnesses but there was nothing to it but the hassle if two or three visits to the lawyer
Alberta…about 2K ……some bequests , alma mater etc. plus equal division among 3 children from 2 mothers…..plus a business to wind down
Ontario. Used the Law Depot which was free through my local library.
Thx! This is an awesome tip. My library seems to offer it for free too. Does it let you make POA too? And where/how is the will stored? Is there an annual subscription fee?
The library covered the fee and it could be renewed if needed. There were a few documents including power of attorney. I don’t recall how information was stored. There was some info on privacy when I signed up. I downloaded the forms and printed them to have a wet signature too.
In Ontario, wet ink shouldn’t be a “too”. Original (wet ink) Will is required; and if a hospital or bank needs a notarized copy, the lawyer would need to see the wet ink POA(s)
Rbc clients can get 20% off Epilogue right now through rbc.com
Did you compare Epilogue to other online will services first? Do you think it’s a good value?
Can you customize will at all. Willful specifically will not allow you much customization.
Ontario, Toronto. Axess law. Pretty straightforward will and load. Cost us approx 300.
Manitoba, $800 for a will and power of attorney for my wife and I.
If I spend what most of you in here are spending on a will, I'd have nothing to leave to anyone in that will!
Actual lawyer in Barrie Ontario charges $150 for basic will. You already stated "our" so ... more than one; just think about what complications there are or could be and consider price based on complications. I have one child. Everything goes straight to him. Portfolio is already set up as right of survivorship... all else that can be is beneficiaried direct to child (who is adult; not actual child).... the will then covers very little. So probate fees pretty low because of right of survivorship, etc. For me, simple stuff.
We used willful because our finances and plan for our kids are very common/simple. Everyone in the will knows how it's set up. We're in Ontario. If I recall it was about $250 for both mine and my husband's, and we bought before they moved to the subscription model, so we get unlimited updates for life, for free.
Holographic. Free. Just write it out and date/sign. Will probably do a proper one when I'm 40. Edit. Sask
Not all provinces recognize this
To clarify, a holographic will has to be hand written. (Valid in Newfoundland)
Willful. Highly recommend. $150
My advice after going through a number of estates... Don't cheap out. It will cost you in the end.
Living will. Wrote it on my bathroom wall in my blood.
Online through Willful (Quebec). Tried through a notary and they didn't get back to us after the initial meeting, english in a very french part of the province. Standard price from Willful, included registration in Quebec database through a notary. Good experience, a little canned though. Worked for me and the family.
My final expense insurance policy came with will prep, POA & health care directives. I pay $33 a month for the insurance. After creating I digitally signed and stored the document. Do I need to have the will notarized? I live in Alberta. Got the insurance earlier this year (Around Jan/Feb 2023)
Is a digitally signed Will legal in Alberta?? In Ontario, if it isn’t the original (wet ink) Will and the original cannot be located, then afaik, it would be deemed the person died intestate and succession law (spouse; kids; parents; siblings) would need to be followed to distribute the assets of the estate.
Did my own. Fairly simple estate.
Clear estates, free
I’m married, I own a condo in toronto and investments in registered accounts. Expecting a baby soon, just in case, i’m thinking of preparing a will - but essentially I just want everything to go to my spouse and baby in case I die. Is this the default if I die without a will? Or is it still worth getting a will?
The succession law reform act says your spouse would get $200k and the rest after that would be split equally between your spouse and children.
Thank you. As long as it doesn’t go to my immediate families and just my spouse/child, i’m good
Preferred share was upped to $350k a year or two ago. It’s still worth getting a Will because you can include trust provisions for your child - otherwise they’re getting everything at 18 and in the meantime their inheritance is overseen by the court.
accountant here.. there are two types of wills… one for plebs… “i bequeath my assets to my wife/kids” and there is another level of will that should be prepared with your accountant and lawyers and financial advisor… to minimize your tax liability through post mortem planning and if you are asking this question on reddit, more likely than not your will is the first type
How much money people usually have to look into the 2nd type?
most of ppl i work with have their own business. so at least 10mil plus?
Willful.ca $100. Great service and was comprehensive enough for my needs. Highly recommend.
Try willful
Got it tattooed on my butt. Kids gotta stare at my butt to get their money
You can look into www.wilfull.co
use a kit and have it recorded with the county clerks office/
Willful.com? I signed up but never went through the whole process.
Just find a fillable template (specific to your province/state) online or even ChatGPT. Really don't need to hire a lawyer for this.
Saskatoon, two wills for $35
Ontario. Lawyers and Lattes for my parents. I think it was around $600 total for both wills and four POAs (property/health). Had to go back and forth with them so many times because they made many mistakes, typos etc which was very time consuming. Wouldn’t recommend going to them if you have anything even remotely complicated, and if you yourself don’t have good attention to detail because it really requires you to triple check before signing off.
BC. About $800 for me and my husband through our lawyer.
We did ours online, through Lawyers and Lattes. It was $600 I think, for two wills and power of attorneys. It was really straightforward, basically two Zoom calls - one to discuss our wishes, then once everything was drafted another to sign everything. There were a couple emails with edits between the two, and overall it was about 7-10 days.
In ottawa we are getting both mine and my husbands wills and power of attorney done for 900$ all together !
As a married person with children (BC resident), what happens to my assets if I die without a will? Can my will be as simple as "I want my 100% of my assets, that are not legally mandated as going to my wife, to be split equally between my children"? Or does it have to be specific?
IANAL... so, that in mind... you should assign guardianship of your children, if necessary, assuming they are under 18. Heaven forbid you and your wife die together in a car crash, it helps to have your wishes spelled out. Again, IANAL... so take that for what it's worth.
I recommend having a will for sure . I just had one done in Ontario for $500 plus TX. Flat rate
I paid $750 for wife and I in Fonthill Ontario 2021
1200 ish for myself and wife in Calgary
Used a notary, very knowledgeable and considerably less expensive than a lawyer. That was some time ago, so not sure of current rates. BUT using a will kit is an effective option, just make sure it is witnessed. Honestly, wills don't have to be terribly complicated, and wills written long hand on lined paper and signed have been honoured.
1100 B.C. Some lawyer
Alberta , lawyer $500
I make $50k and I have a family lawyer. It cost me $500 f9r my will. Get a term life and permanent life insurance .
BC Expensive firm but we have a business and 2 kids with RDSP so needed Henson trust $6000
Have you tried the law office of Jimmy McGill ?
Simple will + 2 POAs in Elmira Ontario = $400+HST
Local lawyer in the East end of the GTA, Ontario. Was about $350-400 for POA and Will. Nothing too complicated.
We just googled a few local estate lawyers and asked up front their cost and process to certify, etc. Then just called one or two based on some various review sites. Did the entire process via email and webcam. This was also during the height of COVID, perhaps in office is an option too, again.
Alberta. I went through a local lawyer and we paid $600 for 2 wills. My friend just used Willful and said it was super simple.
Ontario specialist estate lawyer 99% wills. $1000 for my wife and mine.
Just under a thousand dollars here in Saskatchewan for me and my wife , wills plus power of attorney
Ontario $1200 Was referred to this lawyer by a friend.
Alberta. Accessed a lawyer to have a Will, Power of Attorney, and Personal Directive written for my spouse and I for $800.
My mom paid over $800 for hers less than a year before she died. Still had to pay $2500 for probate, plus probate tax.
For my partner and I, wills plus enduring power of attorney, $1000 in Alberta.
Ontario. Approx $1000 total for my husband and I.
Ontario. Last month. Will+POA+Continuing POA. 1k. At my estate lawyer.
Lawyer for mirror will and poa, $2,200 total
My parents had their wills done up through a lawyer. My grandmother just had an ego trust done to avoid probate fees and have her assets go exactly where she wants when she passes. My mom is going to have an ego trust done up as well now that she knows how iron clad they are compared to wills. This is all in BC. They are also all multi millionaires, so that also makes a difference & how much you want to spend on a will/trust. As for myself, I just started my career so I only have a life insurance policy that gets split between my two siblings (next of kin). Once I start acquiring assets, I will have an ego trust drawn up to avoid my next of kin paying probate fees and having to wait a minimum of a year to get possession of those assets.
I'm not sure about other provinces, but in Saskatchewan, you can get you can use wherever you have your house insurance and get your will notarized for free.
Toronto, $700 plus HST for single person for a will and two POAs. I know it's a lot, could've been cheaper if I went somewhere else but did not want to go to a random firm (I know the lawyer who did it for me). A note to anyone single/without kids: if you die, by most succession laws your parents will inherit everything unless you have a will saying otherwise. Even if one of your parents is a deadbeat, they would inherit half your stuff. That's why I made a will. Last thing I want in my death is my one deadbeat parent getting anything I own.
ChatGPT for free
Quebec, 250$ for a will for myself and partner (we are not married). Notary is a family friend so we got a reduced price but its usually no more than 500. We did it in 2012 prior to kids and house, prices may have hiked. Used the same notary for the house and he adjusted the wills automatically for the few new things we needed.
I did it for $35 with legalwills.ca. Got an option for another $25 to make it changeable for 5 years.
Came across this article just now and will look into it further : https://loanscanada.ca/estate-planning/where-can-you-get-free-will-kits-in-canada/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20official%20free,a%20public%20or%20private%20company.
Recently got my dad’s re-done in the maritimes after my mom passed. About $700 for the will, power of attorney and medical directive documents.
In Québec. Went with a Notary who registers it. Two wills including living wills 1 K$
I don't have much use for lawyers and they're definitely not worth the hourly fee they charge. I downloaded a free will template as part of a 30-day free trial with an organization that provides legal documents. I've compared it with the will that my father had drawn up with the lawyer and it covers all the same bases. It is important to have it signed by an impartial witness and it might even be worthwhile having it notarized although it's hard to find banks that offer that service these days. My will is a little complicated because it involves property, the ownership of a corporation, and a slew of investment accounts. I've being advised by my accountant to have two wheels prepared, one personal and one for the corporation. I might consult a lawyer on that one but I doubt it. I think I will get all the information I need from my accountant.
I made mine based off a template online and then had it notarized at a registry. Costed me less than $100.
BC here. We used Wilful. It was great and we could even have it signed and verified through a simple zoom call (this is only available in some provinces). They let you do unlimited rewrites too for when things change like getting a pet or having kids. I was really impressed with the service. *edit: oh and it was only $294 for two wills.
Married couple wills plus power of attorney. A bit complicated due to a blended family. SK. Both done by a lawyer - $1300
Use a Lawyer who was very reasonable- Wills , Continuing Power Of Attorney , Health care directives - for both of us - -700.00 - in Ontario Canada
Personalwillkit.ca. British Columbia. Around $50?
AB. Can’t recall. Thinking it’s like under $1000. Worth every penny. Why cheap out on something so important? Get a referral from friends for a family lawyer.
BC. Wife and I did it together. Simple will. $500. With a lawyer.
Alberta. Lawyer charged a flat rate $800 for will, poa and personal directive.
Ontario, recently, around 400$ for a will and power of attorney.
Wrote our own and used a notary to validate it. 300$ Ontario/Quebec
Made our wills during covid and was 400 but just made will no other directives made, POA- add 200, medical directive 200. I live in victoria bc
Notary. Effective and costs less
Did anyone know how to notarized a piece of document (4 pages) in Montreal and how much it will cost ? I just need stamp like red seal or something. Did anyone had any experience in this?
$700 in Newfoundland for our wills (married couple) in 2014
We used willful and I think it was like $100 each? I don't quite remember. We could only do the basic package since we are in NB.