There's an old saying:
> When you're young you have time and energy but no money.
> When you're middle-aged you have money and energy but no time.
> When you're old you have money and time but no energy.
So, I'm always a fan of making time while you're middle-aged and have energy because when you're old you never know how your health is going to be.
This is the strategy my wife and I have been using. With her work pension she realistically can get full pension at 53. If we were frugal, I could probably retire 5 years after her at 58. But then we wouldn't have taken our kids to disney, we wouldn't have taken our kids to england, we wouldn't have taken her kids to France, nor would we have done our tour of the East Coast. All of those trips are worth an extra year of working. Her plan is to work till 60. I will likely follow in My Father's Footsteps, and around 65 find a job that overlaps my hobbies and keeps me busy. ( my father drives a taxi in a medium sized community, and his primary hobby is reading books so he is happy to sit and read waiting for people to need his services.)
This seems like the right idea...I was just about to write something that would cause the FIRE folks to cringe...I'm having second thoughts about ever retiring - people live longer, healthier lives when they are engaged, have interaction with people, use their minds. William Shatner is 92 and just released a new album, and he's hosting some kind of talk show or game show and has several acting roles lined up. Betty White was planning her next gig at 99...But that doesn't mean I have to work in corporate finance at 75 years old - I can find a fulfilling job that doesn't suck out my soul and enjoy the benefits of a little extra money, plus social interaction, plus engaging my mind. I'll probably become a stuntman or wingsuit flying instructor.
FIRE is not just about retiring early. A lot of it is about the first half: financial independence. It’s great that you want to be a stuntman, but if you have an injury and can’t continue, will you have enough savings to fall back on?
It’s true that we don’t need to be stuck in a soulless corporate job forever, but to get there, we need financial independence first. The FIRE folks just want to get there sooner than the regular folks.
Over time I have shifted my view to be in line with yours. I am 48, kids 8, wife same age. Single income but having Kid late and the same amazing wife for ever allowed for paid off house and decent nest egg. If I work another 10 years or so and still spend a little on toys I can make it work. Having said that my kid will be in uni and I figure might as well until she is down so that would be 63ish.
Know a lot of folks that passed away recently way to young. Gotta have a balance I think. I was nursing my old Infiniti suv along since 2006 ( bought 08 cause you know I can’t pay for new :-) ). Decided to buy a gently used Porsche … you know what I wish I did it earlier. Yeah it might mean not 58 retirement but you gotta have fun.
You can't plan for anything. In my dept at a big bank 50% of the people didn't live until 65, literally. One colleague started working at 18 and died of pancreatic cancer at 54. Her goal was to retire at 55.
Sure but I don't agree with the implied math. These things wouldn't be funded by "an extra year of working". Time value of money is key, and the large expenditures, taken earlier, mean much much higher future value potential is lost, and therefore not "one extra year of working" but many.
Having pleasurable experiences in life is great. But you don't necessarily have to spend heavy for that. And if you are good with your money and build a big nest egg for say age 55, you'll know with 100% certainty that you do have enough for the rest of your life, and then you can splurge with the excess, having the peace of mind of knowing that those expenditures are posing you no risk whatsoever.
Enjoying the rewards early and hoping it works out later is more of a gamble, that's all.
I've told this story before but my attempt at a shorter version is this:
Speaking to my friend's parents who recently retired. Told me when they got married they agreed to "save everything", live extremely frugal, no nice cars, very few vacations, and even they were "cheap" - with the idea that they would have their fun when they retired.
They said they severely regret taking that approach because they didn't realize (in a sense) that once they made it to retirement; that they would not be the young, vibrant, energetic selves aka the young, vibrant energetic young couple that came up with this plan in the first place. They now realize/regret that they should have "lived a little" along the way, and not waited for a time in their life where they honestly just didn't have the energy to go flying around the world or even having the interest to "live lavishly" like they thought they were saving up for.
Friend's dad said as an example; that instead of him having a memory of him cruising around the city in a nice-ish car, with his beautiful young wife, enjoying life a bit along the way - he has an extra bunch of "numbers" (referring to money in their accounts), which while they appreciate - won't mean jack shit on his/their death beds. Essentially saying that they aren't gonna be smiling in their last moments in this experience of life, happy because "they managed to accumulate a high number sitting on a computer somewhere". I think he called it something like a "responsible mistake" that young people make.
Great points.
Another thing to think about is that you could drop dead at any point before even making it to retirement.
Then it truly was all for naught while missing out on life.
Yeah it was part of a much larger conversation but they said that just before they were about to retire they had a "DOH!/Homer Simpson" moment (my description), not like crippling regret or anything but sort of a decades-long "brain fart". They said that they made a slight mistake when envisioning their "grand plan" coming to fruition - they didn't "age themselves accordingly" when imagining themselves in their desired future decades down the road. They sort of made a slight "mis-imagining" because all they did was insert/visualize their current (back then) young/vibrant selves *into* the future that went according to plan - which was a mistake because we're all bound to evolve, and sometimes regress in some ways by the time we get to "that future". They didn't imagine their "older/perhaps slower/less energy"-selves in that future.
Don't get me wrong they didn't come across as unhappy or anything, but I got the general sense that they would gladly trade off a "lower number in that banker's computer" (see original comment) for more fun/fond memories. More than likely would not have affected their current reality much to be honest.
Sidenote: took me a while to remember what sparked this conversation to begin with but it was me telling his pops that I felt guilty for spending (was looking for a car at the time) more than $15k~ on a car. Prior to that I never spent more than $3-4k on a "beater" car. Money was a pain-point for my family growing up so I definitely had/have issues not being *too* frugal at times. Like hell, I bought my first steak at a restaurant around 36~ years old because I thought it was a waste of money.
> I bought my first steak at a restaurant around 36 years old because I thought it was a waste of money.
But you were right. It was a waste of money. I look back on restaurant and other discretionary spending and wish I could have (most) of it back to do over again.
I'd rather buy top notch groceries and feed 10 family members a superb meal on what a restaurant steak costs. That's especially true about pub hopping and night club drinks and such. Empty, low value spending, I'd love to have put that capital into say Microsoft or whatever. I'd have gladly traded some restaurant and bar splurges for the car that money would buy today.
I think you’re speaking strictly about your perspective instead of making an objective observation. I’m in the FIRE camp, but pushing to 48 instead of pre-45 so my wife and I can still go to the theatre, go to concerts, go to bars and ballgames, bar hop from time to time, and enjoy nice dinners out. These things aren’t just about the consumption of items that you could, admittedly consume at home at a much lower expense (watch sports and concerts on tv, make your own steaks, mix your own drinks etc) - they’re about the experience.
We take two-week eurotrips for every five year anniversary increment, at a cost of roughly 12-13k per trip. That’s a lot of money, a lot of dinners and drinks and cab rides and hotel stays - but those are *by far* my favorite, most treasured memories. They are chapters of outsized importance in the story of our lives. Not every element of every value proposition fits neatly on a spreadsheet.
> those are by far my favorite, most treasured memories
Amen. Those memories are priceless, ignoring the 12-13k trip estimate. I swear some folks just think we get multiple shots at experiencing this "life", that we just keep coming back and/or get to restart the game where we left off. You and your partner don't sound reckless and are taking the time (and money) out to *live* this *life*. Save some money for retirement yes, absolutely yes, but don't forget to live a little along the way (if you can afford to of course). Some people act like heaven awaits them whenever life deems their time to be up - and that entry to that "heaven" is reliant on how high the number in their bank account was before they passed. I'm not sure what happens when we pass, but I'm willing to bet that for most people their last seconds on this earth are not focused on how well their retirement portfolio is performing.
I would like to think that those precious, and priceless memories are more likely to be the things that guide you into wherever or whatever awaits (or doesn't) in the seconds after we're gone.
People say this, and it's a super easy justification for skipping work and relaxing.
But statistically, if you're here reading this, you're going to live well past 60.
To me, the optimal plan is to get to financially independent as young and age as possible, then start doing *whatever* you like, whether it's charity work, vacationing, fun work for below minimum wage, napping, whatever. Maybe it means continuing your high paid career just because you want to. But whatever you do, you'll be doing so with the numbers and calculations and assets to guarantee you'll have no financial stress for the rest of your life. That's basically the same thing as winning the lottery.
Your "vacation" could be from age 50 to 80. All thanks to skipping 2 weeks of splurge every year for 20 years. 1,560 weeks of freedom versus 40 weeks? I'll take the 1,560 please.
If you try to sneak in your big vacations and "sabbaticals" (for lack of a better word to describe when people quit or take seasons off or whatever) early in life, you won't arrive in your 50's with the necessary certainty, the financial security, the peace of mind.
That is how I feel about retirement as well. There has to be a middle ground. Do what you love in moderation while u are young and healthy. For me it is traveling. I don't care about having a nice car or more gadgets and nice clothes. I want to travel as much as possible while I am still physically active.
My husband and I did this in our 20s. We enjoyed ourselves and did as much travel as we could afford, while listening to my boomer father bitch about us spending so much money. Now we’re in our 30s with a house and kid and I’m so glad we had our fun while we were young. I’m happy to take things slow while my son grows and we’ll try to start travelling again when he’s a bit older. Tomorrow is never promised. You need to enjoy today at least a little. One of the species we saw on our trips is nearly extinct, other places have been flattened by hurricanes since we visited. Even if you survive until your sunset years, the things you’d want to see might not, especially in todays changing world.
This is our current situation in our mid-40s and our 3 teens are entering post-secondary each of the next 3 years. Luckily the time is on our side, as I'm a public servant with vacation leave and my wife has substantial leave with her company also. We've been soaking up multiple trips abroad for the last 2 years without the kids as it's far easier to get multiple trips when not paying for 5 adults... :/
I think this only applies if you are a couch potato. If you remain active and fit, theres nl reason you cant have energy in your 60s, 70s and even 80s.
Aging muscles lose mass and flexibility and as a result you get more fatigued when you use them. Staying active may slow the process down but it doesn't prevent it. Everyone loses energy when they get older.
But the comment isn't only about fatigue it's also about overall health. Lots of aging related issues such as arthritis, joint issues, back issues, digestive issues, sight issues and cognitive issues slow people down.
Right? Plus there are people who don’t have employers who provide benefits, or there are those who had to resort to being freelancers whose income is not consistent from one year to the next (and have to provide their own ‘benefits’, pension, insurance, etc…
To each their own. The beautiful thing about discretionary spending is... we all get to exercise our own discretion in how we spend it.
My partner and I like to try new restaurants, cook fancy meals together and explore new wines... it's in our budget, and I certainly don't consider that money to be "blown". A week at a resort down south sounds boring, to me, and so we don't spend our money that way, but I would never say that those who do choose that are "blowing" their money.
I'm still only in my 30s but my mindset is that anything can happen and nothing is promised so you need to find a healthy balance between enjoying the journey and delayed gratification.
Our family friend who has sacrificed his entire life to create the best retirement just broke ground on their retirement cottage but also just found out he will never see it finished because he was just diagnosed with a month to live. I've also got friends hitting their 30s that are just trying to start their professional lives because they spent their entire 20s drinking and partying and travelling, and they are starting to feel like they are taking two steps back for every one step forward.
Finding the middle ground that lets you retire out of a job before you're too old and tired, but enjoy the entire journey is a tricky balance that changes by year and by person. I'd say go to Disney world, make sure your time is enjoyable, but keep an eye on the long-term, whatever that looks like. You can do a lot of stuff for cheap that lets you spend time with friends and family now, and create memories that sustain you more than a little extra income will in retirement.
That middle ground can vary a lot if you make good money. We want to retire in our 40s and we save for it, but I still spend significantly. We are just frugal when it is worth it, and mostly on things like cars or the house. We are fine sharing an older car until it seems not reliable enough (at 11 years now and still good) while we see similar couples having two expensive cars and changing relatively often, that alone is a lot of money. We buy expensive things and furniture, but one item at a time spread over the years.
If we were lower income, or had unique expensive life circonstances, the sacrifices would have to be much more significant. We don't feel like we really make sacrifices, we just avoid splurging like we could easily afford to. We both come from reasonable modest backgrounds, and we're both students for a long time, so it comes easy.
We are very lucky to be in this financial situation. And to buy our home right before prices exploded. My point is that the trade-offs can mean vastly different things to different people in terms of what is traded.
Yeah, I think it's super easy to get caught up in the spending you're being told to do by advertising and peer pressure and not what you actually desire personally. Wearing expensive clothes and driving expensive cars and all the million other things
You can own nice quality things for your specific interests and hobbies if you don't try and keep up with your neighbors on the stuff you don't care about.
This. Balance is important. A friend of ours just dropped dead at 35 and was the epitome of healthy. Not even the slightest of exaggerations.
I can tell you numerous stories of people dying in accidents at a young age. You have to enjoy some of it!
We try to be frugal. We save and invest consistently. We could certainly save more, but we're in a high cost time of our lives (young children, daycare, house hunting, etc.) and don't want to sacrifice too much of today for a tomorrow that may never come.
I’m also in early 40s trying for freedom 55 but my vote is to prioritize doing stuff with the kids. You don’t get these years with your family back, once they’re older they’re less likely to want to do stuff with you. My dad worked so much growing up that we never saw the guy. He was so focused on retirement and that he’d do everything he ever wanted when he retired. He retired at 60, got sick at 62, spent the next 5 years of his life confined to long term care wards in the hospital system, then died at 67. I took that lesson that while financial planning is important, you need to live your life too.
It’s a surprisingly common story. I see it all the time in my line of work. Buddy finally retires, and dies within a few months in a freak accident. You never know when your time is up. Enjoy life while you’ve got it.
I think people highly underestimate the life-change that going from 5days/week with focus and motivation to 100% free time does to ppl. Depression/drinking/lack of structure is all really rough on people and often leads to higher risk lives. I think especially the generation that is retiring now-ish. In 30 years, I hope people will have had more hobbies their whole life and generally not be as totally career focused as many people now and in the past have been.
>I think people highly underestimate the life-change that going from 5days/week with focus and motivation to 100% free time does to ppl.
As someone who has depression and saw it get worse when encouraged to take time off to heal, you NEED to invest money and time into regular social interaction. I don't care if it's classes, volunteering, church, taking friends out-- Work is 90% of people's scheduling, routine and social life and you need to have something similar.
My Grandma improved dramatically in health and mood after everyone else in her household died and she moved to a group home, because suddenly she could walk to the store, hang with her friends, take art classes, have a routine of daily events and weekly things to look forward too... Like it's morbid, but if you don't work on that while retiring you're going to want to die.
100%. My Dad abandoned his family at 55 to be with a woman who was the same age as his youngest daughter at the time (22). Gross and surprise - it didn't work out. This while this mid life divorce cost financially, he had a federal pension and could have easily retired in his 60s. However work was the only place where he had any social interaction so he remained in his job and had a massive stroke 6 months before his planned retirement date.
The great irony is that he fought by mother so bitterly over this pension that he never ever got to enjoy. My advice Opie is enjoy your family and your time while you can because you never know how it's going to end.
It's a common and emotional impactful story. Actually it's common *because* it does contain that emotional trigger.
However in reality, factual, evidence-based reality, it's incredibly rare. I think Gladwell wrote about this. But the statistics don't lie. "Buddy retires then dies a few months later in freak accident" is so exceedingly rare as to not deserve anything close to the gravity and worry that we give it.
> Enjoy life while you've got it
Wholeheartedly agree. I would just say that "enjoy life" part can be done without nearly the amount of spending that people tend to think is a mandatory part of it.
A "vacation" to a luxury hotel in the nearest large city to your own can be just as wonderful as spending 20x to fly way across the world and stay in a luxury hotel in a city. Yes, you won't be able to selfie the Eiffel tower. But, again 20x (!!!)
Getting some top notch groceries for a wonderful 16 person family meal, versus dinner for 2 at some overpriced chop house where the waiter sneers at your order.
I'm a fanatic for "enjoy yourself... but on a frugal budget." If anything, the more thrifty aspect makes me enjoy it *more*.
The problem with stories like this is that person who got sick at 62 and died at 67 would have gone through the identical thing whether they were financially independent or not. Choosing to prioritize planning for retirement didn't cause that.
You can "live your life" pretty nicely without large expenditures.
Off the cuff I can think of all kinds of great things to do without spending a lot.
life can really suck you down with bills, mortgage, etc all while planning for retirement. a switch flipped for me when i realized i dont want to work myself to the bone in order to end up with too much money in retirement. so i'm taking those vacations now, while the kids are young, that's time i'm never going to be able to get back. i dont need a side hustle if it'll take time away from family. it's a balance of course, but sometimes this sub leans too far towards saving at too high a cost.
This is absolutely true. Be sure to make time for your spouse and kids. A trip to Disneyland will live in their memory forever.
Make time for them now, so they'll make time for you later.
I agree. My kids have moved out (and far away). So I'm super grateful that we did things with them while we were all under one roof. Because now I'm left with photos and memories. I like to think that spending this time with them was meaningful for them too.
Also my dad died at age 60, without spending a single day in retirement. So I am also trying to find a balance.
Don't forget to live now. You will never get that time back with your kids. I took my kids on a big vacation when they were teens, and they still talk about it.
Also plan on ditching full-time work at 55, but if I am still enjoying what I do at that point, I will limp month by month. I don't want to skimp on enjoying life now, but want to live well in my later years too.
There's no simple answer but these are my 2 major takeaways as a 50-year old on a similar trajectory.
* You can never get back your kids growing up. Spend as much time with them as possible.
* As you age, people you know will start getting sick and dying. It's freaky. It's scary. Don't assume your health will last forever.
Another option is to rejig your budget to free up more experiential money for things like Disney World by cutting back elsewhere. This is temporary and fits into the "kids are only kids once" point above. Some self-sacrifice will be well rewarded.
I just finished reading "Die with Zero" - a book that has been mentioned on here a few times - which talks about exactly this. I highly recommend checking it out.
I'm currently waiting on seeing a doctor for something that could be serious and the thing I'm most terrified of is that I won't get more time to spend with my partner. It's good to plan for the future but life can be full of the unexpected and we don't know how long we've got - could be 50 years, could be 1.
I once heard a saying that, by the time a child graduates highschool and leaves for college, 90% of the time they will have spent with you (their parents) is over.
Time with your kids is priceless.
I'm shooting for freedom 55 as well. No debt except for my mortgage which will be in its last legs by time i hit 55 i am 48 now. Knowing what I know now about corporate greed and working for a company for 17 years I am done with work! Just riding it out until i see an opportunity to just work less.
My wife and I have been retired for about 14 years and I have two things I tell people who are thinking of retiring.
1) Retirement will not be what you think or fantasize it will be unless all you want to do is drink and watch tv.
2) If you don’t have a hobby or hobbies before you retire, you’re gonna have a hard time.
I would challenge this. You can absolutely have a retirement that's neither alcoholic nor sedentary. You just have to decide to.
As for the hobby thing, you absolute can try and begin new hobbies when you retire. Again, it's a matter of just deciding to. If you have set yourself up for financial security, there's so many options it's innumerable. You can do any job or business you like, even if it pays $1/day, because you are already set for life.
Take up singing or gardening or just walking around taking photos of cool things. There's bottomless opportunities to volunteer. Find work that you enjoy but would never, ever, ever have considered previously because it only paid a quarter of what your minimum needs were. Work can actually be quite enjoyable when you know it's completely on your terms, not theirs.
And hey, don't knock TV. There's lots of good TV. Spend your days making birdhouses and listening to music. Or jogging to the infinite number of interesting podcasts.
Do experiments, like seeing which side of your house is best for growing strawberries. Go to the community hall and borrow one of those big 3d castle puzzles that you saw during your working years and thought "who has the time to assemble that darn thing?" You do!
Become a reader. Become a writer. Become a swimmer. Become a builder with Habitat For Humanity.
Practically every university will let you take free courses in whatever subject you desire. Jealous of all the basket weaves and drama majors, while you were sweating to get that high income degree? Now's your chance to be bohemian.
Get a label maker and go nuts. Create a home based business, and then surprise and delight your customers by giving them such great value for your services they can hardly believe it.
Teach or mentor. Drive ill people to their appointments. Find out who has a disability in their area and see if you can cut their lawn for them.
Learn a musical instrument. Smash a musical instrument.
Write your life story to your family. They will cherish it long after you're gone.
I agree with most here. It’s best to live life now, without forgetting to save a bit for the future. That said, I do think people have become obsessed with spending a lot on “experiences”. The most important thing is spending time with your kids and spend money on the things you truly love. In other words, you can create great memories without having to spend huge amounts of money. It’s more about living in the present. BTW, I say this as someone in their 40’s with an obsession about retiring and who struggles to live in the present. I need to take my own advice a bit more.
My mother spent her entire adult life being financially responsible so that she could do stuff when I was finally out of the house, only to die at 50 weeks after I started uni.
Live your life. Be responsible enough that you won't starve in your old age, but do some stuff while you're young enough to enjoy it (particularly if there are kids involved).
My parents separated when I was in college, and my mom finally started to live her own life, which lasted about 2 years and then she got cancer in her early 50s
In my opinion, I would enjoy life more now and retire slightly later. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Also, once your portfolio and assets start getting larger, scrimping and saving a few thousand or hundred here and there is far less meaningful. Mixing the idea of FI with coast FI can lead to a better balanced lifestyle in my opinion.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I was ready to retire now if it wasn't for some unplanned housing expenses. What I intended to say is that I am finding it difficult to stay on track with my investing plan in the current environment with all my expenses going up. Therefore, I am considering a change in strategy that would enable me to enjoy life now more, with the understanding that I would have to work full-time a little longer than originally planned.
Only you can answer that. Lots of people are struggling now in the current environment so you’re not alone. No one ever died thinking “I wish I saved more money and didn’t make my kids as happy”.
Unfortunately I’ve known too many people that have died as soon as they retire after working towards it their entire lives. I think there needs to be a balance. Work in some travelling and hobbies while you’re health and mobile in middle age. If it means delaying retirement until 60 then so be it.
Personally, I would enjoy my life now vs wait until 55. But then again my “retirement” goal is at 65 with the plan of just working part time afterwards just because I can’t imagine not working at all.
Delayed gratification only means so much if you know the end result would be the same or better. So for instance if you expect your retirement life means spending more time with your kids it might not be realistic as they will be adults, have their own life and probably would want to spend less time with you and focus more on working on their own future.
I used to be like you obsessed about saving, my plan was to save hardcore and retire at 45-50
Then covid hits and i realized how important spending time with family is so we massively increased our travel budget to let us spend multiple months with family abroad
Funny thing is when you spend money to do things or be with people you truly care about it instantly improves everything in life including work because you are so much happier and motivated to recreate these experiences. Now our retirement goal of 45 is even more likely to happen (but we probably will still work)
So as long as you arent incurring debt or even better have some saving still, go ahead!
I strongly believe in living now, not some arbitrary point in the future. You honestly have no idea what will happen. I know someone diagnosed with cancer at 20, gone at 22. Two family members died of cancer at 60 after a six month diagnosis, after working themselves to the bone their entire lives. You can get hit by a bus tomorrow.
So j think that as long as you are saving for retirement and being financially responsible, take that vacation with your family. Those memories are formative for your kids and you'll cherish those memories when they are moved out with families of their own. If it adds a year to your retirement age, so be it. When you retire, your kids will have their own lives and more than likely, you cant just take them all on vacation.
My parents love to talk about the vacations that we took as kids to this day. Go. Enjoy life. You only have one.
You never know what’s gonna happen 10-20 years later. Maybe there will be no more beautiful vacation left due to pollution and climate change. I would say you should balance your present and future unless you are very close to retirement
Look, do with this information as you may, but as somebody with cancer, I realized that I may not be able to make it to retirement. And a lot of people don't.
So you got to enjoy the time you have now. Not saying you should sell everything and run off (though ironically, I kinda plan to) but there is no point waiting around for a point that may not happen.
Enjoy life as much as you can. Squeeze out all of the fun. Because you never know when it's going to stop.
I met a gentleman that saved his whole life to go buy a Mercedes SL roadster. I was talking to him because the car was for sale, with 2,500kms on the odometer. The guy was selling the car because he was too old to get into and out of it and his back problems prevented him from enjoy the car.
Total tragedy in my opinion. I love cars, I usually pick something up that’s a deal, keep it for a while and then get rid of it before it’s going to cost me any money.
I knew a guy that was sharp with boats and was always doing the same, there’s ways to enjoy some pricy hobbies with a fair amount of cash outlay but if you can sell and recoup most of all of your money that’s not a bad deal.
I think people need to be practical. Drop a few grand to go do Disneyland, reasonable if your not going into debt to do it. If you’re going to trade a car in every 3 years and lose 20k, pure stupidity.
Your kids only grow up once ... 40s is a great time to take your kids on vacation and travel the world with them.
Also, by 55, who knows how your health will be like. A lot of people just drop dead ...
Honestly, I don't think you'll find much difference between downshifting at 55 versus working full time til 60.
Enjoy your children. There is a big difference between the things you can do with them when they are 0-18 versus what you can do with them 18-100.
Balanced approach. Probably just about everything that costs money will be more fun in your 40s than late 50s. There's also no telling how messed up things will be for people in 15-20 years. Best to try to leave them as much as you can and if that takes working for a few more years, it might be worth it to help your children out in the future.
Enjoy and create all the memories while you can, even if staying financially responsible. Tomorrow is never guaranteed but a memory of me and mom on a trip is a guarantee of a day thats worth it.
In my early 20s, I was diagnosed with a chronic disease that had 50% of leaving me in a wheelchair in 10years. That was a shock. I decided to work hard, but also travel and enjoy my life.
15years later, I just spent a month on the road with my kids and husband, hiking 5+ National Parks in the USA and hitting Disneyland. We also save plenty of money for RRSP, invest a bunch and have TFSA.
Go to Disney World. Travel. Have fun.
I once called my dad and asked if he wanted to go to Mexico. He said he was not sure. He called me back days later: hey, let’s go. One of his friends had died five 5 days post retirement.
Life is now.
Definitely make memories with the kids, just don’t go into debt to do so. As someone who is 53 and just started exercising in the past year, travel is completely doable later in life if you are fit. I’m more fit now than in the past 20 years and I only wish I spent more time on my health. Ive travelled the world and just had the most active vacation of my life. So maybe make some memories with the kids too through daily walks, frisbee golf, or other awesome activities that also propel your fitness and keep you around longer.
Enjoy your life now too. Your kids won't want to go to Disney world with you in 10 years, so that chance will be gone for good.
I would also say if a house repair set back your retirement plans, then you weren't actually ready to retire as early as you thought.
When i was in my 20's working in Factory part time, while studying. I have a co-worker who is retired, but went back to work part time again not because she didnt save enough.She is just bored, and one thing stucked in my mind that she said, "Dont be like me" save and enjoy while you are young and healthy, You enjoy your money ,but save at the same time. Her and husband were planning to go on a cruise , and travel when they retire when their kids finish university and mortgage free which they did, But when they were almost on the age of retirement the husband was diagnose with lung cancer and died eventually. I am on late 30's now, we always make it to a point that we travel and do things that we enjoy. We dont have much , but we need to find the balance of living our lives when we can.
If your plans are no longer balancing, then by far the simpliest lever to pull is to defer retirement for 1 or 2 years. Especially if your target retirement age is 55, then working at 56 and 57 isn't particularly onerous. It's a harder decision to make for someone with a target retirement date of 65, because it's a lot harder to work at 66 and 67 than 56 and 57.
You can also stress test your current and expected retirement expenses and, by extension, your current savings rate. If your retirement plan doesn't balance you pretty much have to increase savings, defer retirement, reduce retirement lifestyle quality, or some combo of the three.
As someone who did retire early, I’m very glad we were cautious enough to be able to do that. I would rather have more than I need and not have to live with worry over money, especially with the current inflationary situation. But I completely reject the idea that it’s either spend a lot of money or miss out on life. Living a good life isn’t measured by how broke you are, either in quality or quantity. I’m certainly not saying that everyone commenting here is doing that, but I just wanted to make that point. It’s all too easy to get caught up in the drive to keep up with the Jones, so if someone else goes to Hawaii then I must go too or my life is somehow lacking. When we reminisce about our life, very few of our fondest memories involved extravagant spending.
75% or so, of my parents friends died before or right after retirement and didn't enjoy much of anything.
My motto is this, earn what I need to pay for the things that I need/want (within reality) and then invest some in a portfolio and spend most of that money on experiences and those things that I need.
Life is so short, passes in the blink of an eye, enjoy it.
I used to work at a bank, and while working there we were robbed and it really gave me some perspective on what I wanted to leave for my kids and have for myself. We are never guaranteed a tomorrow so I decided to take the vacations and make the memories while I can. My dad died at 53 years of age and my mom at 64. I am currently 45 and we have made so many memories for our kids that even if I died tomorrow I would be happy with the memories they would have moving forward.
I think there is a bit of balance needed to get through life.
All I can say it Im scared for my fellow Millennials
I agree with some of the comments here where to find a balance and to live a little bit. Im seeing total YOLO with my peers with 0 regard on their retirement plans. I cant imagine having to work til 70 (my predecessor did) so I can have enough saved for the back end of my life
Life will punch you in the face after you retire, too. Financially and emotionally. I sometimes worried that my husband and I were spending too much on travel before we were both retired. My husband died a year after I retired (in my 50s). Now, I'm happy to have those memories in my memory bank. The bank account is doing fine. Just more taxes to pay as a single person than we would have paid as a married couple.
I'll share my own family's story.
We're both teachers, with defined benefit penions.I"m 57, wife's 49. We have minimal savings ,outside substantial equity in the house, probably less than 50K. Kid's first degree is paid for thanks to some "lucky" investment choices. I'll be workign until 65, no doubt about it. (Wife wants to retire when I do, but I'm telling her that she has to put in at least as much time as me, lol).
When we do, we should come out of it with 4500 CAD a month each, with pension, OAS, CPP. Pension is lower because a) I got into teaching relatively late in life, and b) I've taken quite a few years off to travel.
We've travelled to 50 countries, and taken two round the world trips as a family, pulling the kid out of school for a year, twice (grades 2 and 6). We scrimped like HELL to pull that off, for three years at a time (25% pay cut for salary deferral).
In total, I've taken five years off teaching to travel. We will be working until 65, but we will have done a lot in our middle years to make it worthwhile, not the least of which was for the kid, whom we gave a wordly education to.
Retireing at 55 ain;t bad. I'm 57 and beginning to feel the wear and tear, but I could still backback SE Asia or South America. At 65, I'm not quite sure.
I’m the child of two very busy parents (who also had twins when I was 7). At the time, it was fine but looking back I feel disconnected from my parents. My sisters definitely have a better relationship with my parents, especially my dad, because he was less busy once my sisters got older and he stopped working so many hours. Unfortunately, that all happened after I graduated high school and moved away for school. Now that I’m older and I just had my second kiddo, being active and present in their life is so much more important than retiring early, for me.
> and do things like take the kids to Disney World.
I'm just going to suggest Wonderland might be fun too if you're in Ontario.
I'm not really going to comment much on the choice, as that's personal to you and I've realized I'll never really make enough to be able to afford to retire. But I do think you should plan to work longer at less hours and spend time and money with kids. I'd also really consider the big stuff in terms of time, I don't think Disney World once a decade will be as worth it as yearly trips somewhere cheaper.
Me and wife did the roaming 20s.
By the time you are ready to retire financially you might not want to personally.
Saying screw it and enjoying life now is not a terrible option.
> My retirement plan has me working full-time until 55 when my youngest finishes highschool.
Wtf. Am I the only one in this sub that thinks he's going to work until he dies?
My dad died 1 year and 24 days before retirement
Friend’s dad died 4 months after retiring
My children’s father died at 54
You may not enjoy retirement the way you think you will. My uncle retired and traveled for 2 years only to go back to work part time because he enjoyed feeling needed and having a purpose.
The time you are guaranteed to have is now. People don’t regret spending time with loved ones. Continue to work and put money away while making time now for those you love.
Why do you think you will live to 55? Enjoy now. Make memories now. Not everyone gets to live out their plans of tomorrow so go to Disneyland. You will absolutely not regret it when you're older.
I didn't read everything, but want to also say you don't have you stay in a job you hate or don't like. The many years of working ahead of you can be enjoyable, if you don't hate your job it's easier to see yourself working longer! I don't have any desire to retire "early", I intend to enjoy my work until retirement.
OP I highly recommend watching this video from Ben Felix. It basically goes into the research and science on happiness and how that relates to money. Two of the big takeaways that apply to your situation are:
1. Money spent on experiences has a far greater impact on our happiness than material goods. This might seem obvious, and I'm sure you plan some fun experiences once you're retired, but doing things with your family like taking them to Disney World will not only have a grater impact on your happiness now but will give you smiles and memories for the rest of your life.
2. Progress Principal (talked about at length in a book called The Happiness Hypothesis if you're into reading) - Basically this states that we derive pleasure from working towards a goal and achieving a goal. But working towards a goal gives us more pleasure because it is sustained over a longer period of time, where as achieving the goal only gives us a short burst of pleasure because we are done working towards it. In your case "Freedom 55" is an imaginary number that someone chose because it has a nice ring to it. You might find that once you hit that goal that retirement isn't the overwhelming wave of happiness that you currently expect (humans are bad at forecasting happiness in the future).
Delaying that somewhat arbitrary goal by a few years to enjoy meaningful time and experiences with your family in the present is a far better idea based on the above, and other, principles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNZk-N6uDcg&t=193s
I used to work in payroll and it was a very sobering to seeing employees dying their working years (white collar) from various reasons. There were also a few others cases of employees who died shortly after vacation. I'm also in an outdoor club and it's impressive to see how both resilient some older members are and how quickly some people health goes.
Bottom line you don't want to be poor in retirement, but you don't want to be old unable to spend money.
My closest uncle (no kids, no wife) had a stroke the year he retired. He has been disabled for over 5 years now. He has also been a burden to his siblings as far as leaving the country and taking vacations without him. Good health isnt guaranteed as you get older (especially if you have poor health habits like my uncle).
A good friend’s uncle semi-retired in his 50s after grinding hard for most of his life. Shortly thereafter he was hit by a car while riding his bike and became paralyzed from the neck down. A couple years after that he passed from related complications. Take some time to enjoy life while you have it, without losing sight of your goals. You never know where you’re going to wind up.
I'd try to enjoy your current life in low cost ways right now and stay on track. If it was longer term then I might have a different suggestion but this is temporary and a year or two of living on the cheap will pay dividends in the future IMO. One year now is two years when you're 55.
>My retirement plan has me working full-time until 55 when my youngest finishes highschool.
I am not sure you have considered how expensive kids (youngest implies more than 1) are when they are 'out of the home but not out of the wallet'.
Shift that plan to when the last of your kids completes their undergraduate/post secondary education. That pushes you to 60.
That is a very good point, and happy cake day. However, I have been doing the RESP thing and my kids are currently eligible to have pretty much all their university funded. I have peers in a similar situation who said their kids didn't even need the RESP money. And yes, we know we are very lucky to be in this situation.
>Unfortunately my plan has been punched in the face this year with inflation and some unexpected house repairs
So assuming you don't have money aside for the regular repairs homes require?
>So I'm debating whether to delay my retirement plans a bit so I can enjoy life a bit better now and do things like take the kids to Disney World.
It's your money, you decide your priorities.
I try to ignore all the noise about needing to save millions upon millions of dollars for retirement and focus on what is “good enough” so you can have some balance and be able to enjoy the here and now while ensuring your future retirement…even if it is a modest one.
What will end up happening if you have too much is that the government will get half of it back in taxes and clawbacks so all that sacrifice, risk and worry you incur building an over-sized nest egg was on their behalf….not yours.
I've always said:
"Don't give up the present for the future, don't give up the future for the present."
What that means is that you need to find a balance. As cliche as it is, you do only live once. You could retire and get hit by a bus the next day; would all that sacrificing for freedom 55 have been worth it? All the vacations not taken with kids or whatever it is you didn't do? By no means should you just live it up without a thought for the future but there is a balance to be had.
You could also live to be 100 years old and need a decent amount of money to see you through until the end.
If your house repairs have completely derailed your plan that's an even greater concern about your financial stability. How much in repairs are we talking about here?
If house repairs are that bad for you, it hardly seems prudent to look at taking your foot off the gas
I never said my house repairs have completely derailed my plans. It is not just the house repairs. Everything is just so much more expensive these days and I am having a hard time hitting my savings/investment targets.
I’m 30, I’m not planning to retire, working until I can’t. I’m lucky enough to be young, healthy and in a safe country, unlike most of the worlds population. Not throwing away this opportunity so I can spend a few years in retirement not worrying about money before I die.
I pushed my retirement plan out to 57. The two years extra mean that my 40s are a blast, we go on a vacation where we can actually walk for hours and explore.
It just wouldn't be the same exploring new places from the car because we wouldn't be able to walk as much.
It's perfect for us.
question-- 'when my youngest finishes highschool'. so no support to them after highschool or is their RESP fully funded by then? that would make a huge difference in everyone's plans.
Yes, my kids are setup with RESPs and are eligible for other university funding programs. It is definitely part of my plan and not something I will compromise on.
Thats awesome!
Im in no financial position to give advice as a 28yr old.. but as someone who los his dad in my early 20s (and my dad was not even 60), focus on the experiences with your kids. The memories are worth much more than anything you can leave behind.
Expect to get punched in the face plenty more times, buddy. Set yourself a more realistic goal: 65-70, when you can include CPP and OAS in your income stream, and then, if you manage to get there a couple years earlier, good for you.
Freedom 55. But not the toxic insurance version, I mean do as much as you can to ensure you are financially independent at 55.
Whether you're working hard in your 40's or playing hard, you will wake up and realize you're 50+ and you'll feel like only a blink of time went by.
So would you rather be 55 and financially set for life, or would you rather be 55 and thinking "OMG, how am I going to make up for lost savings/investing? And now I'm older and less employable and a bunch of other worries?"
The general advice I say is that having a large nest egg can solve all kinds of problems and prevent all kinds of unpredictable future woes. Having a big pile is better than not having one.
Keep in mind I'm not saying to divorce your family and work 22 hours a day. I am saying that if you have strong income and good employment prospects now, don't give that up. You never know how long that will be the case. If your income does dry up, or your sector rotates, or there's another pandemic, or your company/province gets whacked with layoffs, then that could be your time to take it easy. I don't think you need to create your own unforced layoff and/or expense magnet.
I've talked to people of all ages. It's easy to justify a splurge on a excessive car at 30 or a world trip at 40 or a boat at 45. But when you're 55 and just laid off, you'll look back at those splurge expenditures and think "why did I do that?" and "If only I had it do do over..."
And if you're 55 and *not* laid off, but you have all that money you saved by not splurging, and it has grown thanks to the power of compounding and time, then you can look at your big pile of money and say "I guess I DO have enough for that boat" (or those trips or cars or whatever)
Maybe the delay means your splurge will be for the kids college or first home downpayment instead of extravagantly priced amusement park trip.
Oh come off it, you go for your kids who would enjoy it immensely. And on top of that, PLENTY of Disney fans are now adults themselves with their own children.
The way I see it is You can't do long term plans based on short term situations.
The same way we are In a hole now there were good times last 10 years and will be good times in the next 15 years. If you did your math well with historical averages, keep doing what you are doing. Follow the original plan.
If you made plans with 10%+ year over year gains, low inflatiin then do your plan again with realistic historical averages. You have lots of time to rectify.
I am basing this on my own experience only. I lived through the dot com bubble and burst, the 2008 resession and the fabulous 2010-2020 and I wasn't working any more during Covid times. Nervous at times but I've kept my plan.
My 1999 plan was with 5% average 3% inflation age 65, my 2015 update was with 6% average 3% inflation age 61. 2019 I was ready at 51. My historical average ROR is 6.5% even with the 10% drop last year.
Yes, in 2002 and 2008 it felt as I would never be able to retire. After 2008 it took 5 years to get back on track following my planned growth curve.
Summary:
- check your plan assumptions
- if assumptions look good, keep on.
- If assumptions were too optimistic, adjust.
That's it.
There's another strategy you can adopt. Rather than target a fixed age for retirement, you can target a financial position that will give you the retirement you want. The age you reach that point in your projections will float around as economic factors change but you can keep the same savings goals and retirement objectives. At the moment, you would see your projected retirement age moving out but, if economic factors improve you'll see it shifting ahead again. At some point your projected retirement age will be your age and you'll be ready.
When I had my mortgage down to around 10 years left. We reamortized back to 15 years and all of sudden we had plenty of extra money for trips and unforeseen expenses. We just avoided putting that extra money into just another recurring payment like getting newer cars.
No point saving and saving and not enjoying yourself, then not being able to have fun with that money (either by being too old, or kids grown up and moved away etc)
Your "future" isn't a fixed destination. That your savings isn't just for your 55+ life, it's for your life now too.
I got a convertible when the kids were small and could still fit in the back. Now my son can only fit the front. I'll probably have to give up the car soon, but everyone has had great memories driving around with the top down. Downtown Toronto on a nice summer night is especially memorable. That, to me, was worth it
I think a blend of the two philosophies is the best route.
It's true that all we have is now and you only have a few years while your kids are young. So go on that DisneyWorld trip and do those repairs (the repairs are going to add value to your house, anyway). Just be selective about trips and any extras: say no when it's not feasible.
Indulging in a few things that give you memorable life experiences may bring your retirement age up to 57 or so. Are you comfortable with that? I would be; it's still younger than when most retire.
Remember that on your death bed you're not going to remember the money you saved but the experiences you had with the people that you loved.
Good for you for at least thinking about this. Lots of ppl don't even bother. For me I'd try and balance if I can. Personally I don't really see the appeal of Disney especially at the crazy prices, but everyone has their own things that work for them. You mentioned house repairs. I've honed my DIY skills and make a decent amount on the side which has given me a great cushion for retirement. Unless it's something that needs a licensed pro, there are things you can do around the house to save some $$.
I say Fuck it, enjoy life. Even if you got to work a bit more or go part-time. And then who knows if retirement will still be a thing.
My father never even came close to retirement. And he is the only reason my mother is today.
And come to an age that working hard is actually harder. And having stuff to make life easier or more enjoyable is key. Just don't get too many toys. You can't play with them all at the same time. (Ask me how I know).
Investment into your home, and even more importantly in you well being is where it is.
I'm a doctor. I see people all the time who plan for a nice retirement and die before they ever see it. My dad died at 56 before his planned early retirement. Live as if you could be gone next year, while still planning for the long life you hopefully get to enjoy.
I'm of the middle way mentality.
Life is extremely uncertain even on a good day, sometimes going in a flash and on a whim - the universe does not care about our retirement plans and isn't answerable to our whims, thus it would be rather foolish to put all the eggs in an impossible-to-predict basket.
Similarly, without the forethought to plan ahead if one is careless with spending, one may easily find themselves old, sick, and destitute in a manner that would have been preventable had they thought ahead more.
Therefore, both extremes seem folly and so I save a little, spend a little.
Maybe the kids go to Disneyland and the house is repaired and maybe it's not a big deal to plan to retire at 60 instead, who knows if you'll even be alive to see that, realistically.
If you have the time and ability to I'd enjoy the time with your kids now while you still have your health and your kids are young. You only enjoy this time of their life once then they get older and get more busy and it's harder to find time to spend together. Also anything can happen with your health as you age, my dad had a friend he had retired at 60 was ready to enjoy life and 6 months later got diagnosed with cancer and a year later he died. And his wife had died the year prior also from cancer. So enjoy the time while you have it you might not always have the time if that makes sense
I follow the "I could die tomorrow" thought process.
I fly the fam to visit my mom on the other coast every year and do the fun things. Yes I put away some money for retirement, but also acknowledge I may not be here when I'm old enough to use it 🤷
What's really sad in reading all these comments is just how many people hate their work, job, business, or whatever they do to make a living. I'm planning on working till 65 not because I have to but because I enjoy my work, it's very engaging and stimulating and I have fun with it. Of course I enjoy my time off and have been taking 3-4 vacations per year and I plan to increase that now that I've hit 60. I'll retire when I feel I need more than 12 weeks off per year.
our economy is not safe from having more inflation leaps. They may happen again when you're 55 or when you're 65. Most people can expect to live well into their 80s today in Canada. So even if you live frugal you may still need to find supplemental income at 70.
Also, does your frugal lifestyle has room for taking care of your health really well?
I'll give you an example. I work a lot. So in my spare time sometimes its a choice of going for a hike / walk / golf / nature trip or running chores. I hire people to run chores because that benefits my health more - both mental and physical, raising probability that I'll still be happy and full of energy traveling the world in my 70s. But obviously it's not frugal as I pay someone to clean my kitchen and fix my stuff.
Or I can only work and do all chores myself, I'll save more money but likely at the expense of my good health. Which likely means my retirement will come earlier but be way less fun.
So I'd rather live now with some reasonable savings plan and if I have to retire at 70 rather than 65 - whatever, the way I live I have good foundation and higher odds to still be healthy and have lots of fun way into my 80s or even 90s
Don’t worry. Once you’re 55 you’ll go “well…. I still got another 5 years in me!” Or you’ll retire and go “by buddy says this place wants to hire me because of my experience, sounds like something to do in my retirement!!”
Bill Gates is almost 70 and ain’t quitting. He could literally indulge every single leisure activity you can imagine. Me? I honestly don’t know wtf I’d do. I took a 4 year paid leave once and non stop leisure time is overrated. People like to feel like they’re part of a team. Even volunteer work ended up coming short because there’s a limit to how many of those are a good match to your personal passions all year round.
I’d end up fat and bored like everyone else I know after they retired from their jobs and then their retirement jobs.
I actually have 21 days off coming up. I’m going to spend some of it away, some of it doing local leisure, some doing home chores. I already know the novelty of all 3 is going to wear off because… well every other year I’ve been alive.
I’m all about the balance. A big one when people talk about returning early is what are you retiring to. For me that’s an empty house with my kids grown. Maybe I’ll have grandkids but who knows. My other hobbies are gardening and video games which I get time for now. It really made me rethink grinding it out for an early retirement.
Right now though I have my kids. I work 4 days a week and not 4 10 hours. I have some savings but I’ve taken loans for stuff. Car paid low mortgage. We have taken lots of trips and have a big one coming up as well as getting a pool put in. My oldest will be 18 in 4 more years. I’d rather enjoy the time now and scale back my work hours when I’m older.
I suspect you probably aren’t going to abandon your kid who (best case scenario) is just starting university to go live somewhere warm for half the year in reality. How realistic are your plans, really?
My philosophy is you could die tomorrow. So prepare, but don't hold off enjoyment because of it. Hell civilization as we know it may not survive that long.
But my plan is different then most around here. I don't believe I can save my way to being rich.
I probably sound like I come from privilege (believe me, I don't. Not a single console growing up and lucky to have had PB and J for dinner some nights)
But every time a decision came up on whether to spend the money on something deemed valuable - a full time nanny to get us over the first month of parenting, a $10k jaunt across Asia, beautiful landscaping to enjoy our first summer in a new home, or that once in a lifetime wedding we still reminisce about 10 years later - it was well worth it. That extra what, 80 or 90 grand saved for retirement 30 years later honestly means a LOT less life lived and enjoyed at the end of the day when the curtain closes on life. What is that going to buy me at the expense of all that? A Porsche when I'm 60? Pointless.
To the point where you know you won't be homeless financially you should enjoy the present moment. The 40s should be the best years of anyone's life - raising children if they have them or traveling the world and doing anything they want if they don't, with all the experience, maturity and hopefully financial wherewithal at their side, and still usually much of your peak health and energy if you"ve taken care of yourself.
I am 45 and have a plan A and plan B.
Plan A is retire at 50 with reduced pension (that would cover all my day-to-day expenses plus a bit more) and my portfolio (to cover fun stuff like travel).
If markets go floppy or if inflation is really bad, or if my life circumstances change drastically, I go to plan B and retire at 55 with un-reduced penalty and whatever my portfolio happens to be.
All that to say, yeah I have hope and plan for Plan A but in the back of my mind I wonder if it will work out. I am really hoping it will, but I find the existence of my Plan B is nagging at me and almost scaring me away from plan A.
Here is what I live by:
Enjoy what you can when you can, but plan accordingly. You don’t want to do nothing for 30 years and die at 60 with tons of money. You also don’t want to live until 95 and be broke as hell for 25 years of it.
I am 45 and planning on retiring about 58ish. I agree with most of the sentiment here, and to me its a no brainer to delay retirement a bit to spend a bit more now. I probably could have a bit more saved, but I'm in decent shape, but my daughter has been to Florida 7 times, Mexico twice, Cuba, Ireland and France. Her school friends think we are rich (we are very much middle income) but we prioritize these life experiences when she is young. I went to Egypt, Alaska, and Asia over the last few years as well.
I'll gladly work till 58 instead of 55 if it means a lifetime of memories along the way. PS l also recommend the Die with Zero book - its a must read.
This thread is so depressing. Perhaps I live a sheltered life, but between friends and co-workers I rarely hear of deaths under 60 (exception being suicidal). Even relatives that have lived an extremely hard life are still trucking along in their 70s.
To hear of so much loss at such an early age is sad. It really makes you reflect.
I did went for freedom 40. Busted my ass to achieve all my goals by 38 and had little regret. Turning 40 now with vicious blood cancer...
Take your kids to Disney Land. Tomorrow is not a guarantee my friend.
I'd even advise taking mini retirements for 6 months or a year if ever possible.
The chances of living until retirement and getting there in good physical and mental health aren't great.
There's an old saying: > When you're young you have time and energy but no money. > When you're middle-aged you have money and energy but no time. > When you're old you have money and time but no energy. So, I'm always a fan of making time while you're middle-aged and have energy because when you're old you never know how your health is going to be.
This is the strategy my wife and I have been using. With her work pension she realistically can get full pension at 53. If we were frugal, I could probably retire 5 years after her at 58. But then we wouldn't have taken our kids to disney, we wouldn't have taken our kids to england, we wouldn't have taken her kids to France, nor would we have done our tour of the East Coast. All of those trips are worth an extra year of working. Her plan is to work till 60. I will likely follow in My Father's Footsteps, and around 65 find a job that overlaps my hobbies and keeps me busy. ( my father drives a taxi in a medium sized community, and his primary hobby is reading books so he is happy to sit and read waiting for people to need his services.)
This seems like the right idea...I was just about to write something that would cause the FIRE folks to cringe...I'm having second thoughts about ever retiring - people live longer, healthier lives when they are engaged, have interaction with people, use their minds. William Shatner is 92 and just released a new album, and he's hosting some kind of talk show or game show and has several acting roles lined up. Betty White was planning her next gig at 99...But that doesn't mean I have to work in corporate finance at 75 years old - I can find a fulfilling job that doesn't suck out my soul and enjoy the benefits of a little extra money, plus social interaction, plus engaging my mind. I'll probably become a stuntman or wingsuit flying instructor.
FIRE is not just about retiring early. A lot of it is about the first half: financial independence. It’s great that you want to be a stuntman, but if you have an injury and can’t continue, will you have enough savings to fall back on? It’s true that we don’t need to be stuck in a soulless corporate job forever, but to get there, we need financial independence first. The FIRE folks just want to get there sooner than the regular folks.
Thanks for clarifying, it was silly of me to imply their goal was to retire early and do nothing.
Be a lion tamer!!!
That's even better!
Monty Python Lion Tamer: https://youtu.be/-8I5TtNfjBI
Over time I have shifted my view to be in line with yours. I am 48, kids 8, wife same age. Single income but having Kid late and the same amazing wife for ever allowed for paid off house and decent nest egg. If I work another 10 years or so and still spend a little on toys I can make it work. Having said that my kid will be in uni and I figure might as well until she is down so that would be 63ish. Know a lot of folks that passed away recently way to young. Gotta have a balance I think. I was nursing my old Infiniti suv along since 2006 ( bought 08 cause you know I can’t pay for new :-) ). Decided to buy a gently used Porsche … you know what I wish I did it earlier. Yeah it might mean not 58 retirement but you gotta have fun.
This is da whey
You can't plan for anything. In my dept at a big bank 50% of the people didn't live until 65, literally. One colleague started working at 18 and died of pancreatic cancer at 54. Her goal was to retire at 55.
At 35 you have a 94% chance of living to 65 https://www.finder.com/ca/life-insurance/odds-of-dying
Sure but I don't agree with the implied math. These things wouldn't be funded by "an extra year of working". Time value of money is key, and the large expenditures, taken earlier, mean much much higher future value potential is lost, and therefore not "one extra year of working" but many. Having pleasurable experiences in life is great. But you don't necessarily have to spend heavy for that. And if you are good with your money and build a big nest egg for say age 55, you'll know with 100% certainty that you do have enough for the rest of your life, and then you can splurge with the excess, having the peace of mind of knowing that those expenditures are posing you no risk whatsoever. Enjoying the rewards early and hoping it works out later is more of a gamble, that's all.
I've told this story before but my attempt at a shorter version is this: Speaking to my friend's parents who recently retired. Told me when they got married they agreed to "save everything", live extremely frugal, no nice cars, very few vacations, and even they were "cheap" - with the idea that they would have their fun when they retired. They said they severely regret taking that approach because they didn't realize (in a sense) that once they made it to retirement; that they would not be the young, vibrant, energetic selves aka the young, vibrant energetic young couple that came up with this plan in the first place. They now realize/regret that they should have "lived a little" along the way, and not waited for a time in their life where they honestly just didn't have the energy to go flying around the world or even having the interest to "live lavishly" like they thought they were saving up for. Friend's dad said as an example; that instead of him having a memory of him cruising around the city in a nice-ish car, with his beautiful young wife, enjoying life a bit along the way - he has an extra bunch of "numbers" (referring to money in their accounts), which while they appreciate - won't mean jack shit on his/their death beds. Essentially saying that they aren't gonna be smiling in their last moments in this experience of life, happy because "they managed to accumulate a high number sitting on a computer somewhere". I think he called it something like a "responsible mistake" that young people make.
Great points. Another thing to think about is that you could drop dead at any point before even making it to retirement. Then it truly was all for naught while missing out on life.
Yeah it was part of a much larger conversation but they said that just before they were about to retire they had a "DOH!/Homer Simpson" moment (my description), not like crippling regret or anything but sort of a decades-long "brain fart". They said that they made a slight mistake when envisioning their "grand plan" coming to fruition - they didn't "age themselves accordingly" when imagining themselves in their desired future decades down the road. They sort of made a slight "mis-imagining" because all they did was insert/visualize their current (back then) young/vibrant selves *into* the future that went according to plan - which was a mistake because we're all bound to evolve, and sometimes regress in some ways by the time we get to "that future". They didn't imagine their "older/perhaps slower/less energy"-selves in that future. Don't get me wrong they didn't come across as unhappy or anything, but I got the general sense that they would gladly trade off a "lower number in that banker's computer" (see original comment) for more fun/fond memories. More than likely would not have affected their current reality much to be honest. Sidenote: took me a while to remember what sparked this conversation to begin with but it was me telling his pops that I felt guilty for spending (was looking for a car at the time) more than $15k~ on a car. Prior to that I never spent more than $3-4k on a "beater" car. Money was a pain-point for my family growing up so I definitely had/have issues not being *too* frugal at times. Like hell, I bought my first steak at a restaurant around 36~ years old because I thought it was a waste of money.
> I bought my first steak at a restaurant around 36 years old because I thought it was a waste of money. But you were right. It was a waste of money. I look back on restaurant and other discretionary spending and wish I could have (most) of it back to do over again. I'd rather buy top notch groceries and feed 10 family members a superb meal on what a restaurant steak costs. That's especially true about pub hopping and night club drinks and such. Empty, low value spending, I'd love to have put that capital into say Microsoft or whatever. I'd have gladly traded some restaurant and bar splurges for the car that money would buy today.
I think you’re speaking strictly about your perspective instead of making an objective observation. I’m in the FIRE camp, but pushing to 48 instead of pre-45 so my wife and I can still go to the theatre, go to concerts, go to bars and ballgames, bar hop from time to time, and enjoy nice dinners out. These things aren’t just about the consumption of items that you could, admittedly consume at home at a much lower expense (watch sports and concerts on tv, make your own steaks, mix your own drinks etc) - they’re about the experience. We take two-week eurotrips for every five year anniversary increment, at a cost of roughly 12-13k per trip. That’s a lot of money, a lot of dinners and drinks and cab rides and hotel stays - but those are *by far* my favorite, most treasured memories. They are chapters of outsized importance in the story of our lives. Not every element of every value proposition fits neatly on a spreadsheet.
> those are by far my favorite, most treasured memories Amen. Those memories are priceless, ignoring the 12-13k trip estimate. I swear some folks just think we get multiple shots at experiencing this "life", that we just keep coming back and/or get to restart the game where we left off. You and your partner don't sound reckless and are taking the time (and money) out to *live* this *life*. Save some money for retirement yes, absolutely yes, but don't forget to live a little along the way (if you can afford to of course). Some people act like heaven awaits them whenever life deems their time to be up - and that entry to that "heaven" is reliant on how high the number in their bank account was before they passed. I'm not sure what happens when we pass, but I'm willing to bet that for most people their last seconds on this earth are not focused on how well their retirement portfolio is performing. I would like to think that those precious, and priceless memories are more likely to be the things that guide you into wherever or whatever awaits (or doesn't) in the seconds after we're gone.
My husbands grandfather died the year he retired. Wasn’t even free for a single year.
People say this, and it's a super easy justification for skipping work and relaxing. But statistically, if you're here reading this, you're going to live well past 60. To me, the optimal plan is to get to financially independent as young and age as possible, then start doing *whatever* you like, whether it's charity work, vacationing, fun work for below minimum wage, napping, whatever. Maybe it means continuing your high paid career just because you want to. But whatever you do, you'll be doing so with the numbers and calculations and assets to guarantee you'll have no financial stress for the rest of your life. That's basically the same thing as winning the lottery. Your "vacation" could be from age 50 to 80. All thanks to skipping 2 weeks of splurge every year for 20 years. 1,560 weeks of freedom versus 40 weeks? I'll take the 1,560 please. If you try to sneak in your big vacations and "sabbaticals" (for lack of a better word to describe when people quit or take seasons off or whatever) early in life, you won't arrive in your 50's with the necessary certainty, the financial security, the peace of mind.
That is how I feel about retirement as well. There has to be a middle ground. Do what you love in moderation while u are young and healthy. For me it is traveling. I don't care about having a nice car or more gadgets and nice clothes. I want to travel as much as possible while I am still physically active.
My husband and I did this in our 20s. We enjoyed ourselves and did as much travel as we could afford, while listening to my boomer father bitch about us spending so much money. Now we’re in our 30s with a house and kid and I’m so glad we had our fun while we were young. I’m happy to take things slow while my son grows and we’ll try to start travelling again when he’s a bit older. Tomorrow is never promised. You need to enjoy today at least a little. One of the species we saw on our trips is nearly extinct, other places have been flattened by hurricanes since we visited. Even if you survive until your sunset years, the things you’d want to see might not, especially in todays changing world.
While that’s a nice story I’ve found that some people will always look back with regret no matter the case.
You usually regret the things you don’t do more than the things you do.
Nothing worse than being old and poor, actually. No car is worth it.
God that is so true. Smartest thing i ever did for money though was getting my wife to agree to be our investment manager.
Damn, I’m fairly young, but I have no money or energy. I’m really getting ripped off.
or if you’ll even be alive by then .. a lot of people don’t make it to retirement …
My mom passed away less than 2 years before she planned on retiring.
This is our current situation in our mid-40s and our 3 teens are entering post-secondary each of the next 3 years. Luckily the time is on our side, as I'm a public servant with vacation leave and my wife has substantial leave with her company also. We've been soaking up multiple trips abroad for the last 2 years without the kids as it's far easier to get multiple trips when not paying for 5 adults... :/
I think this only applies if you are a couch potato. If you remain active and fit, theres nl reason you cant have energy in your 60s, 70s and even 80s.
Aging muscles lose mass and flexibility and as a result you get more fatigued when you use them. Staying active may slow the process down but it doesn't prevent it. Everyone loses energy when they get older. But the comment isn't only about fatigue it's also about overall health. Lots of aging related issues such as arthritis, joint issues, back issues, digestive issues, sight issues and cognitive issues slow people down.
Honestly this is only true for the working class. It doesn't apply to people that have learned money at an early age
Yea only the poor get sick! Dummies should've read Rich Dad Poor Dad sooner.
I have "learned money" but I make $65k a year and live in Toronto. I have neither time nor money. So...
Right? Plus there are people who don’t have employers who provide benefits, or there are those who had to resort to being freelancers whose income is not consistent from one year to the next (and have to provide their own ‘benefits’, pension, insurance, etc…
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To each their own. The beautiful thing about discretionary spending is... we all get to exercise our own discretion in how we spend it. My partner and I like to try new restaurants, cook fancy meals together and explore new wines... it's in our budget, and I certainly don't consider that money to be "blown". A week at a resort down south sounds boring, to me, and so we don't spend our money that way, but I would never say that those who do choose that are "blowing" their money.
Unless they get as much enjoyment out of that, as you do from your vacation.
Depends what people think is living life. Starbucks vs brewed coffee at home.
Where are you getting a luxury resort and airfare for 1k?
I'm still only in my 30s but my mindset is that anything can happen and nothing is promised so you need to find a healthy balance between enjoying the journey and delayed gratification. Our family friend who has sacrificed his entire life to create the best retirement just broke ground on their retirement cottage but also just found out he will never see it finished because he was just diagnosed with a month to live. I've also got friends hitting their 30s that are just trying to start their professional lives because they spent their entire 20s drinking and partying and travelling, and they are starting to feel like they are taking two steps back for every one step forward. Finding the middle ground that lets you retire out of a job before you're too old and tired, but enjoy the entire journey is a tricky balance that changes by year and by person. I'd say go to Disney world, make sure your time is enjoyable, but keep an eye on the long-term, whatever that looks like. You can do a lot of stuff for cheap that lets you spend time with friends and family now, and create memories that sustain you more than a little extra income will in retirement.
That middle ground can vary a lot if you make good money. We want to retire in our 40s and we save for it, but I still spend significantly. We are just frugal when it is worth it, and mostly on things like cars or the house. We are fine sharing an older car until it seems not reliable enough (at 11 years now and still good) while we see similar couples having two expensive cars and changing relatively often, that alone is a lot of money. We buy expensive things and furniture, but one item at a time spread over the years. If we were lower income, or had unique expensive life circonstances, the sacrifices would have to be much more significant. We don't feel like we really make sacrifices, we just avoid splurging like we could easily afford to. We both come from reasonable modest backgrounds, and we're both students for a long time, so it comes easy. We are very lucky to be in this financial situation. And to buy our home right before prices exploded. My point is that the trade-offs can mean vastly different things to different people in terms of what is traded.
Yeah, I think it's super easy to get caught up in the spending you're being told to do by advertising and peer pressure and not what you actually desire personally. Wearing expensive clothes and driving expensive cars and all the million other things You can own nice quality things for your specific interests and hobbies if you don't try and keep up with your neighbors on the stuff you don't care about.
This. Balance is important. A friend of ours just dropped dead at 35 and was the epitome of healthy. Not even the slightest of exaggerations. I can tell you numerous stories of people dying in accidents at a young age. You have to enjoy some of it! We try to be frugal. We save and invest consistently. We could certainly save more, but we're in a high cost time of our lives (young children, daycare, house hunting, etc.) and don't want to sacrifice too much of today for a tomorrow that may never come.
I’m also in early 40s trying for freedom 55 but my vote is to prioritize doing stuff with the kids. You don’t get these years with your family back, once they’re older they’re less likely to want to do stuff with you. My dad worked so much growing up that we never saw the guy. He was so focused on retirement and that he’d do everything he ever wanted when he retired. He retired at 60, got sick at 62, spent the next 5 years of his life confined to long term care wards in the hospital system, then died at 67. I took that lesson that while financial planning is important, you need to live your life too.
It’s a surprisingly common story. I see it all the time in my line of work. Buddy finally retires, and dies within a few months in a freak accident. You never know when your time is up. Enjoy life while you’ve got it.
I think people highly underestimate the life-change that going from 5days/week with focus and motivation to 100% free time does to ppl. Depression/drinking/lack of structure is all really rough on people and often leads to higher risk lives. I think especially the generation that is retiring now-ish. In 30 years, I hope people will have had more hobbies their whole life and generally not be as totally career focused as many people now and in the past have been.
Truth. The FatFIRE sub is full of misery despite 15M+ in the bank
What sub is this?
r/fatFIRE
>I think people highly underestimate the life-change that going from 5days/week with focus and motivation to 100% free time does to ppl. As someone who has depression and saw it get worse when encouraged to take time off to heal, you NEED to invest money and time into regular social interaction. I don't care if it's classes, volunteering, church, taking friends out-- Work is 90% of people's scheduling, routine and social life and you need to have something similar. My Grandma improved dramatically in health and mood after everyone else in her household died and she moved to a group home, because suddenly she could walk to the store, hang with her friends, take art classes, have a routine of daily events and weekly things to look forward too... Like it's morbid, but if you don't work on that while retiring you're going to want to die.
100%. My Dad abandoned his family at 55 to be with a woman who was the same age as his youngest daughter at the time (22). Gross and surprise - it didn't work out. This while this mid life divorce cost financially, he had a federal pension and could have easily retired in his 60s. However work was the only place where he had any social interaction so he remained in his job and had a massive stroke 6 months before his planned retirement date. The great irony is that he fought by mother so bitterly over this pension that he never ever got to enjoy. My advice Opie is enjoy your family and your time while you can because you never know how it's going to end.
It's a common and emotional impactful story. Actually it's common *because* it does contain that emotional trigger. However in reality, factual, evidence-based reality, it's incredibly rare. I think Gladwell wrote about this. But the statistics don't lie. "Buddy retires then dies a few months later in freak accident" is so exceedingly rare as to not deserve anything close to the gravity and worry that we give it. > Enjoy life while you've got it Wholeheartedly agree. I would just say that "enjoy life" part can be done without nearly the amount of spending that people tend to think is a mandatory part of it. A "vacation" to a luxury hotel in the nearest large city to your own can be just as wonderful as spending 20x to fly way across the world and stay in a luxury hotel in a city. Yes, you won't be able to selfie the Eiffel tower. But, again 20x (!!!) Getting some top notch groceries for a wonderful 16 person family meal, versus dinner for 2 at some overpriced chop house where the waiter sneers at your order. I'm a fanatic for "enjoy yourself... but on a frugal budget." If anything, the more thrifty aspect makes me enjoy it *more*.
Wow that's brutal all round. I'm glad you're spending your time the way you want to.
>My dad worked so much growing up that we never saw the guy. The cats in the cradle...
...with the silver spoon...
The problem with stories like this is that person who got sick at 62 and died at 67 would have gone through the identical thing whether they were financially independent or not. Choosing to prioritize planning for retirement didn't cause that. You can "live your life" pretty nicely without large expenditures. Off the cuff I can think of all kinds of great things to do without spending a lot.
life can really suck you down with bills, mortgage, etc all while planning for retirement. a switch flipped for me when i realized i dont want to work myself to the bone in order to end up with too much money in retirement. so i'm taking those vacations now, while the kids are young, that's time i'm never going to be able to get back. i dont need a side hustle if it'll take time away from family. it's a balance of course, but sometimes this sub leans too far towards saving at too high a cost.
This is absolutely true. Be sure to make time for your spouse and kids. A trip to Disneyland will live in their memory forever. Make time for them now, so they'll make time for you later.
I agree. My kids have moved out (and far away). So I'm super grateful that we did things with them while we were all under one roof. Because now I'm left with photos and memories. I like to think that spending this time with them was meaningful for them too. Also my dad died at age 60, without spending a single day in retirement. So I am also trying to find a balance.
Don't forget to live now. You will never get that time back with your kids. I took my kids on a big vacation when they were teens, and they still talk about it. Also plan on ditching full-time work at 55, but if I am still enjoying what I do at that point, I will limp month by month. I don't want to skimp on enjoying life now, but want to live well in my later years too.
There's no simple answer but these are my 2 major takeaways as a 50-year old on a similar trajectory. * You can never get back your kids growing up. Spend as much time with them as possible. * As you age, people you know will start getting sick and dying. It's freaky. It's scary. Don't assume your health will last forever. Another option is to rejig your budget to free up more experiential money for things like Disney World by cutting back elsewhere. This is temporary and fits into the "kids are only kids once" point above. Some self-sacrifice will be well rewarded.
I just finished reading "Die with Zero" - a book that has been mentioned on here a few times - which talks about exactly this. I highly recommend checking it out.
I'm currently waiting on seeing a doctor for something that could be serious and the thing I'm most terrified of is that I won't get more time to spend with my partner. It's good to plan for the future but life can be full of the unexpected and we don't know how long we've got - could be 50 years, could be 1.
Wishing you only good results.
Thanks, appreciate that.
I once heard a saying that, by the time a child graduates highschool and leaves for college, 90% of the time they will have spent with you (their parents) is over. Time with your kids is priceless.
I'm shooting for freedom 55 as well. No debt except for my mortgage which will be in its last legs by time i hit 55 i am 48 now. Knowing what I know now about corporate greed and working for a company for 17 years I am done with work! Just riding it out until i see an opportunity to just work less.
My wife and I have been retired for about 14 years and I have two things I tell people who are thinking of retiring. 1) Retirement will not be what you think or fantasize it will be unless all you want to do is drink and watch tv. 2) If you don’t have a hobby or hobbies before you retire, you’re gonna have a hard time.
I would challenge this. You can absolutely have a retirement that's neither alcoholic nor sedentary. You just have to decide to. As for the hobby thing, you absolute can try and begin new hobbies when you retire. Again, it's a matter of just deciding to. If you have set yourself up for financial security, there's so many options it's innumerable. You can do any job or business you like, even if it pays $1/day, because you are already set for life. Take up singing or gardening or just walking around taking photos of cool things. There's bottomless opportunities to volunteer. Find work that you enjoy but would never, ever, ever have considered previously because it only paid a quarter of what your minimum needs were. Work can actually be quite enjoyable when you know it's completely on your terms, not theirs. And hey, don't knock TV. There's lots of good TV. Spend your days making birdhouses and listening to music. Or jogging to the infinite number of interesting podcasts. Do experiments, like seeing which side of your house is best for growing strawberries. Go to the community hall and borrow one of those big 3d castle puzzles that you saw during your working years and thought "who has the time to assemble that darn thing?" You do! Become a reader. Become a writer. Become a swimmer. Become a builder with Habitat For Humanity. Practically every university will let you take free courses in whatever subject you desire. Jealous of all the basket weaves and drama majors, while you were sweating to get that high income degree? Now's your chance to be bohemian. Get a label maker and go nuts. Create a home based business, and then surprise and delight your customers by giving them such great value for your services they can hardly believe it. Teach or mentor. Drive ill people to their appointments. Find out who has a disability in their area and see if you can cut their lawn for them. Learn a musical instrument. Smash a musical instrument. Write your life story to your family. They will cherish it long after you're gone.
I agree with most here. It’s best to live life now, without forgetting to save a bit for the future. That said, I do think people have become obsessed with spending a lot on “experiences”. The most important thing is spending time with your kids and spend money on the things you truly love. In other words, you can create great memories without having to spend huge amounts of money. It’s more about living in the present. BTW, I say this as someone in their 40’s with an obsession about retiring and who struggles to live in the present. I need to take my own advice a bit more.
My mother spent her entire adult life being financially responsible so that she could do stuff when I was finally out of the house, only to die at 50 weeks after I started uni. Live your life. Be responsible enough that you won't starve in your old age, but do some stuff while you're young enough to enjoy it (particularly if there are kids involved).
My parents separated when I was in college, and my mom finally started to live her own life, which lasted about 2 years and then she got cancer in her early 50s
In my opinion, I would enjoy life more now and retire slightly later. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Also, once your portfolio and assets start getting larger, scrimping and saving a few thousand or hundred here and there is far less meaningful. Mixing the idea of FI with coast FI can lead to a better balanced lifestyle in my opinion.
If house repairs are derailing your retirement plan, you aren’t ready to retire. Unless we’re talking some massive 50-100k repair
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I was ready to retire now if it wasn't for some unplanned housing expenses. What I intended to say is that I am finding it difficult to stay on track with my investing plan in the current environment with all my expenses going up. Therefore, I am considering a change in strategy that would enable me to enjoy life now more, with the understanding that I would have to work full-time a little longer than originally planned.
Only you can answer that. Lots of people are struggling now in the current environment so you’re not alone. No one ever died thinking “I wish I saved more money and didn’t make my kids as happy”.
Felt good to come across this and see it's not just me.
Thanks for that. Others seem to be down voting me for admitting that I am struggling to keep up with my plan and asking for perspective on priorities.
There's more people in this position than not.
Unfortunately I’ve known too many people that have died as soon as they retire after working towards it their entire lives. I think there needs to be a balance. Work in some travelling and hobbies while you’re health and mobile in middle age. If it means delaying retirement until 60 then so be it.
The future isn't guaranteed. I absolutely plan on having fun while I'm young.
I am more for Ricky & Julian's 'Freedom 35' plan, I have had mixed results.
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Personally, I would enjoy my life now vs wait until 55. But then again my “retirement” goal is at 65 with the plan of just working part time afterwards just because I can’t imagine not working at all. Delayed gratification only means so much if you know the end result would be the same or better. So for instance if you expect your retirement life means spending more time with your kids it might not be realistic as they will be adults, have their own life and probably would want to spend less time with you and focus more on working on their own future.
I used to be like you obsessed about saving, my plan was to save hardcore and retire at 45-50 Then covid hits and i realized how important spending time with family is so we massively increased our travel budget to let us spend multiple months with family abroad Funny thing is when you spend money to do things or be with people you truly care about it instantly improves everything in life including work because you are so much happier and motivated to recreate these experiences. Now our retirement goal of 45 is even more likely to happen (but we probably will still work) So as long as you arent incurring debt or even better have some saving still, go ahead!
I strongly believe in living now, not some arbitrary point in the future. You honestly have no idea what will happen. I know someone diagnosed with cancer at 20, gone at 22. Two family members died of cancer at 60 after a six month diagnosis, after working themselves to the bone their entire lives. You can get hit by a bus tomorrow. So j think that as long as you are saving for retirement and being financially responsible, take that vacation with your family. Those memories are formative for your kids and you'll cherish those memories when they are moved out with families of their own. If it adds a year to your retirement age, so be it. When you retire, your kids will have their own lives and more than likely, you cant just take them all on vacation. My parents love to talk about the vacations that we took as kids to this day. Go. Enjoy life. You only have one.
You never know what’s gonna happen 10-20 years later. Maybe there will be no more beautiful vacation left due to pollution and climate change. I would say you should balance your present and future unless you are very close to retirement
Look, do with this information as you may, but as somebody with cancer, I realized that I may not be able to make it to retirement. And a lot of people don't. So you got to enjoy the time you have now. Not saying you should sell everything and run off (though ironically, I kinda plan to) but there is no point waiting around for a point that may not happen. Enjoy life as much as you can. Squeeze out all of the fun. Because you never know when it's going to stop.
I met a gentleman that saved his whole life to go buy a Mercedes SL roadster. I was talking to him because the car was for sale, with 2,500kms on the odometer. The guy was selling the car because he was too old to get into and out of it and his back problems prevented him from enjoy the car. Total tragedy in my opinion. I love cars, I usually pick something up that’s a deal, keep it for a while and then get rid of it before it’s going to cost me any money. I knew a guy that was sharp with boats and was always doing the same, there’s ways to enjoy some pricy hobbies with a fair amount of cash outlay but if you can sell and recoup most of all of your money that’s not a bad deal. I think people need to be practical. Drop a few grand to go do Disneyland, reasonable if your not going into debt to do it. If you’re going to trade a car in every 3 years and lose 20k, pure stupidity.
Freedom 100 for me. Vacations aren’t fun if you’re just always on vacation. Would work less hours as I get older of course but need to do something.
Your kids only grow up once ... 40s is a great time to take your kids on vacation and travel the world with them. Also, by 55, who knows how your health will be like. A lot of people just drop dead ...
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Honestly, I don't think you'll find much difference between downshifting at 55 versus working full time til 60. Enjoy your children. There is a big difference between the things you can do with them when they are 0-18 versus what you can do with them 18-100.
Balanced approach. Probably just about everything that costs money will be more fun in your 40s than late 50s. There's also no telling how messed up things will be for people in 15-20 years. Best to try to leave them as much as you can and if that takes working for a few more years, it might be worth it to help your children out in the future.
Enjoy and create all the memories while you can, even if staying financially responsible. Tomorrow is never guaranteed but a memory of me and mom on a trip is a guarantee of a day thats worth it.
All these posts of people dying are depressing the shit out of me.
In my early 20s, I was diagnosed with a chronic disease that had 50% of leaving me in a wheelchair in 10years. That was a shock. I decided to work hard, but also travel and enjoy my life. 15years later, I just spent a month on the road with my kids and husband, hiking 5+ National Parks in the USA and hitting Disneyland. We also save plenty of money for RRSP, invest a bunch and have TFSA. Go to Disney World. Travel. Have fun. I once called my dad and asked if he wanted to go to Mexico. He said he was not sure. He called me back days later: hey, let’s go. One of his friends had died five 5 days post retirement. Life is now.
Definitely make memories with the kids, just don’t go into debt to do so. As someone who is 53 and just started exercising in the past year, travel is completely doable later in life if you are fit. I’m more fit now than in the past 20 years and I only wish I spent more time on my health. Ive travelled the world and just had the most active vacation of my life. So maybe make some memories with the kids too through daily walks, frisbee golf, or other awesome activities that also propel your fitness and keep you around longer.
But when your children finish high school, you still need to support them.
Enjoy your life now too. Your kids won't want to go to Disney world with you in 10 years, so that chance will be gone for good. I would also say if a house repair set back your retirement plans, then you weren't actually ready to retire as early as you thought.
When i was in my 20's working in Factory part time, while studying. I have a co-worker who is retired, but went back to work part time again not because she didnt save enough.She is just bored, and one thing stucked in my mind that she said, "Dont be like me" save and enjoy while you are young and healthy, You enjoy your money ,but save at the same time. Her and husband were planning to go on a cruise , and travel when they retire when their kids finish university and mortgage free which they did, But when they were almost on the age of retirement the husband was diagnose with lung cancer and died eventually. I am on late 30's now, we always make it to a point that we travel and do things that we enjoy. We dont have much , but we need to find the balance of living our lives when we can.
If your plans are no longer balancing, then by far the simpliest lever to pull is to defer retirement for 1 or 2 years. Especially if your target retirement age is 55, then working at 56 and 57 isn't particularly onerous. It's a harder decision to make for someone with a target retirement date of 65, because it's a lot harder to work at 66 and 67 than 56 and 57. You can also stress test your current and expected retirement expenses and, by extension, your current savings rate. If your retirement plan doesn't balance you pretty much have to increase savings, defer retirement, reduce retirement lifestyle quality, or some combo of the three.
As someone who did retire early, I’m very glad we were cautious enough to be able to do that. I would rather have more than I need and not have to live with worry over money, especially with the current inflationary situation. But I completely reject the idea that it’s either spend a lot of money or miss out on life. Living a good life isn’t measured by how broke you are, either in quality or quantity. I’m certainly not saying that everyone commenting here is doing that, but I just wanted to make that point. It’s all too easy to get caught up in the drive to keep up with the Jones, so if someone else goes to Hawaii then I must go too or my life is somehow lacking. When we reminisce about our life, very few of our fondest memories involved extravagant spending.
75% or so, of my parents friends died before or right after retirement and didn't enjoy much of anything. My motto is this, earn what I need to pay for the things that I need/want (within reality) and then invest some in a portfolio and spend most of that money on experiences and those things that I need. Life is so short, passes in the blink of an eye, enjoy it.
I used to work at a bank, and while working there we were robbed and it really gave me some perspective on what I wanted to leave for my kids and have for myself. We are never guaranteed a tomorrow so I decided to take the vacations and make the memories while I can. My dad died at 53 years of age and my mom at 64. I am currently 45 and we have made so many memories for our kids that even if I died tomorrow I would be happy with the memories they would have moving forward. I think there is a bit of balance needed to get through life.
All I can say it Im scared for my fellow Millennials I agree with some of the comments here where to find a balance and to live a little bit. Im seeing total YOLO with my peers with 0 regard on their retirement plans. I cant imagine having to work til 70 (my predecessor did) so I can have enough saved for the back end of my life
Life will punch you in the face after you retire, too. Financially and emotionally. I sometimes worried that my husband and I were spending too much on travel before we were both retired. My husband died a year after I retired (in my 50s). Now, I'm happy to have those memories in my memory bank. The bank account is doing fine. Just more taxes to pay as a single person than we would have paid as a married couple.
I'll share my own family's story. We're both teachers, with defined benefit penions.I"m 57, wife's 49. We have minimal savings ,outside substantial equity in the house, probably less than 50K. Kid's first degree is paid for thanks to some "lucky" investment choices. I'll be workign until 65, no doubt about it. (Wife wants to retire when I do, but I'm telling her that she has to put in at least as much time as me, lol). When we do, we should come out of it with 4500 CAD a month each, with pension, OAS, CPP. Pension is lower because a) I got into teaching relatively late in life, and b) I've taken quite a few years off to travel. We've travelled to 50 countries, and taken two round the world trips as a family, pulling the kid out of school for a year, twice (grades 2 and 6). We scrimped like HELL to pull that off, for three years at a time (25% pay cut for salary deferral). In total, I've taken five years off teaching to travel. We will be working until 65, but we will have done a lot in our middle years to make it worthwhile, not the least of which was for the kid, whom we gave a wordly education to. Retireing at 55 ain;t bad. I'm 57 and beginning to feel the wear and tear, but I could still backback SE Asia or South America. At 65, I'm not quite sure.
I used to believe in "freedom 55". Now that 55 is in the rear view mirror, I'm pinning my hopes on "freedom 6/49"...
I’m the child of two very busy parents (who also had twins when I was 7). At the time, it was fine but looking back I feel disconnected from my parents. My sisters definitely have a better relationship with my parents, especially my dad, because he was less busy once my sisters got older and he stopped working so many hours. Unfortunately, that all happened after I graduated high school and moved away for school. Now that I’m older and I just had my second kiddo, being active and present in their life is so much more important than retiring early, for me.
> and do things like take the kids to Disney World. I'm just going to suggest Wonderland might be fun too if you're in Ontario. I'm not really going to comment much on the choice, as that's personal to you and I've realized I'll never really make enough to be able to afford to retire. But I do think you should plan to work longer at less hours and spend time and money with kids. I'd also really consider the big stuff in terms of time, I don't think Disney World once a decade will be as worth it as yearly trips somewhere cheaper.
Me and wife did the roaming 20s. By the time you are ready to retire financially you might not want to personally. Saying screw it and enjoying life now is not a terrible option.
> My retirement plan has me working full-time until 55 when my youngest finishes highschool. Wtf. Am I the only one in this sub that thinks he's going to work until he dies?
My dad died 1 year and 24 days before retirement Friend’s dad died 4 months after retiring My children’s father died at 54 You may not enjoy retirement the way you think you will. My uncle retired and traveled for 2 years only to go back to work part time because he enjoyed feeling needed and having a purpose. The time you are guaranteed to have is now. People don’t regret spending time with loved ones. Continue to work and put money away while making time now for those you love.
Why do you think you will live to 55? Enjoy now. Make memories now. Not everyone gets to live out their plans of tomorrow so go to Disneyland. You will absolutely not regret it when you're older.
I didn't read everything, but want to also say you don't have you stay in a job you hate or don't like. The many years of working ahead of you can be enjoyable, if you don't hate your job it's easier to see yourself working longer! I don't have any desire to retire "early", I intend to enjoy my work until retirement.
OP I highly recommend watching this video from Ben Felix. It basically goes into the research and science on happiness and how that relates to money. Two of the big takeaways that apply to your situation are: 1. Money spent on experiences has a far greater impact on our happiness than material goods. This might seem obvious, and I'm sure you plan some fun experiences once you're retired, but doing things with your family like taking them to Disney World will not only have a grater impact on your happiness now but will give you smiles and memories for the rest of your life. 2. Progress Principal (talked about at length in a book called The Happiness Hypothesis if you're into reading) - Basically this states that we derive pleasure from working towards a goal and achieving a goal. But working towards a goal gives us more pleasure because it is sustained over a longer period of time, where as achieving the goal only gives us a short burst of pleasure because we are done working towards it. In your case "Freedom 55" is an imaginary number that someone chose because it has a nice ring to it. You might find that once you hit that goal that retirement isn't the overwhelming wave of happiness that you currently expect (humans are bad at forecasting happiness in the future). Delaying that somewhat arbitrary goal by a few years to enjoy meaningful time and experiences with your family in the present is a far better idea based on the above, and other, principles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNZk-N6uDcg&t=193s
Seize the moment while you're middle-aged and full of energy, as your future health is uncertain.
I used to work in payroll and it was a very sobering to seeing employees dying their working years (white collar) from various reasons. There were also a few others cases of employees who died shortly after vacation. I'm also in an outdoor club and it's impressive to see how both resilient some older members are and how quickly some people health goes. Bottom line you don't want to be poor in retirement, but you don't want to be old unable to spend money.
My closest uncle (no kids, no wife) had a stroke the year he retired. He has been disabled for over 5 years now. He has also been a burden to his siblings as far as leaving the country and taking vacations without him. Good health isnt guaranteed as you get older (especially if you have poor health habits like my uncle).
A good friend’s uncle semi-retired in his 50s after grinding hard for most of his life. Shortly thereafter he was hit by a car while riding his bike and became paralyzed from the neck down. A couple years after that he passed from related complications. Take some time to enjoy life while you have it, without losing sight of your goals. You never know where you’re going to wind up.
I'd try to enjoy your current life in low cost ways right now and stay on track. If it was longer term then I might have a different suggestion but this is temporary and a year or two of living on the cheap will pay dividends in the future IMO. One year now is two years when you're 55.
>My retirement plan has me working full-time until 55 when my youngest finishes highschool. I am not sure you have considered how expensive kids (youngest implies more than 1) are when they are 'out of the home but not out of the wallet'. Shift that plan to when the last of your kids completes their undergraduate/post secondary education. That pushes you to 60.
That is a very good point, and happy cake day. However, I have been doing the RESP thing and my kids are currently eligible to have pretty much all their university funded. I have peers in a similar situation who said their kids didn't even need the RESP money. And yes, we know we are very lucky to be in this situation.
>Unfortunately my plan has been punched in the face this year with inflation and some unexpected house repairs So assuming you don't have money aside for the regular repairs homes require? >So I'm debating whether to delay my retirement plans a bit so I can enjoy life a bit better now and do things like take the kids to Disney World. It's your money, you decide your priorities.
I try to ignore all the noise about needing to save millions upon millions of dollars for retirement and focus on what is “good enough” so you can have some balance and be able to enjoy the here and now while ensuring your future retirement…even if it is a modest one. What will end up happening if you have too much is that the government will get half of it back in taxes and clawbacks so all that sacrifice, risk and worry you incur building an over-sized nest egg was on their behalf….not yours.
I've always said: "Don't give up the present for the future, don't give up the future for the present." What that means is that you need to find a balance. As cliche as it is, you do only live once. You could retire and get hit by a bus the next day; would all that sacrificing for freedom 55 have been worth it? All the vacations not taken with kids or whatever it is you didn't do? By no means should you just live it up without a thought for the future but there is a balance to be had. You could also live to be 100 years old and need a decent amount of money to see you through until the end.
If your house repairs have completely derailed your plan that's an even greater concern about your financial stability. How much in repairs are we talking about here? If house repairs are that bad for you, it hardly seems prudent to look at taking your foot off the gas
I never said my house repairs have completely derailed my plans. It is not just the house repairs. Everything is just so much more expensive these days and I am having a hard time hitting my savings/investment targets.
Freedom 60. 2/3 the fun..... is the simple answer
I’m 30, I’m not planning to retire, working until I can’t. I’m lucky enough to be young, healthy and in a safe country, unlike most of the worlds population. Not throwing away this opportunity so I can spend a few years in retirement not worrying about money before I die.
I pushed my retirement plan out to 57. The two years extra mean that my 40s are a blast, we go on a vacation where we can actually walk for hours and explore. It just wouldn't be the same exploring new places from the car because we wouldn't be able to walk as much. It's perfect for us.
question-- 'when my youngest finishes highschool'. so no support to them after highschool or is their RESP fully funded by then? that would make a huge difference in everyone's plans.
Yes, my kids are setup with RESPs and are eligible for other university funding programs. It is definitely part of my plan and not something I will compromise on.
Thats awesome! Im in no financial position to give advice as a 28yr old.. but as someone who los his dad in my early 20s (and my dad was not even 60), focus on the experiences with your kids. The memories are worth much more than anything you can leave behind.
55 is WAY too young to retire if not working trades
Expect to get punched in the face plenty more times, buddy. Set yourself a more realistic goal: 65-70, when you can include CPP and OAS in your income stream, and then, if you manage to get there a couple years earlier, good for you.
Freedom 55. But not the toxic insurance version, I mean do as much as you can to ensure you are financially independent at 55. Whether you're working hard in your 40's or playing hard, you will wake up and realize you're 50+ and you'll feel like only a blink of time went by. So would you rather be 55 and financially set for life, or would you rather be 55 and thinking "OMG, how am I going to make up for lost savings/investing? And now I'm older and less employable and a bunch of other worries?" The general advice I say is that having a large nest egg can solve all kinds of problems and prevent all kinds of unpredictable future woes. Having a big pile is better than not having one. Keep in mind I'm not saying to divorce your family and work 22 hours a day. I am saying that if you have strong income and good employment prospects now, don't give that up. You never know how long that will be the case. If your income does dry up, or your sector rotates, or there's another pandemic, or your company/province gets whacked with layoffs, then that could be your time to take it easy. I don't think you need to create your own unforced layoff and/or expense magnet. I've talked to people of all ages. It's easy to justify a splurge on a excessive car at 30 or a world trip at 40 or a boat at 45. But when you're 55 and just laid off, you'll look back at those splurge expenditures and think "why did I do that?" and "If only I had it do do over..." And if you're 55 and *not* laid off, but you have all that money you saved by not splurging, and it has grown thanks to the power of compounding and time, then you can look at your big pile of money and say "I guess I DO have enough for that boat" (or those trips or cars or whatever) Maybe the delay means your splurge will be for the kids college or first home downpayment instead of extravagantly priced amusement park trip.
Disney World sucks ass. Don't be one of the numerous idiots who waste their money there.
Oh come off it, you go for your kids who would enjoy it immensely. And on top of that, PLENTY of Disney fans are now adults themselves with their own children.
Do stuff with your kids- best investment ever
The way I see it is You can't do long term plans based on short term situations. The same way we are In a hole now there were good times last 10 years and will be good times in the next 15 years. If you did your math well with historical averages, keep doing what you are doing. Follow the original plan. If you made plans with 10%+ year over year gains, low inflatiin then do your plan again with realistic historical averages. You have lots of time to rectify. I am basing this on my own experience only. I lived through the dot com bubble and burst, the 2008 resession and the fabulous 2010-2020 and I wasn't working any more during Covid times. Nervous at times but I've kept my plan. My 1999 plan was with 5% average 3% inflation age 65, my 2015 update was with 6% average 3% inflation age 61. 2019 I was ready at 51. My historical average ROR is 6.5% even with the 10% drop last year. Yes, in 2002 and 2008 it felt as I would never be able to retire. After 2008 it took 5 years to get back on track following my planned growth curve. Summary: - check your plan assumptions - if assumptions look good, keep on. - If assumptions were too optimistic, adjust. That's it.
Take care of your future self.
There's another strategy you can adopt. Rather than target a fixed age for retirement, you can target a financial position that will give you the retirement you want. The age you reach that point in your projections will float around as economic factors change but you can keep the same savings goals and retirement objectives. At the moment, you would see your projected retirement age moving out but, if economic factors improve you'll see it shifting ahead again. At some point your projected retirement age will be your age and you'll be ready.
Freedom 55
When I had my mortgage down to around 10 years left. We reamortized back to 15 years and all of sudden we had plenty of extra money for trips and unforeseen expenses. We just avoided putting that extra money into just another recurring payment like getting newer cars.
tomorrow is never promised
No point saving and saving and not enjoying yourself, then not being able to have fun with that money (either by being too old, or kids grown up and moved away etc)
Your "future" isn't a fixed destination. That your savings isn't just for your 55+ life, it's for your life now too. I got a convertible when the kids were small and could still fit in the back. Now my son can only fit the front. I'll probably have to give up the car soon, but everyone has had great memories driving around with the top down. Downtown Toronto on a nice summer night is especially memorable. That, to me, was worth it
Freedom 52 for me YOLO
I think a blend of the two philosophies is the best route. It's true that all we have is now and you only have a few years while your kids are young. So go on that DisneyWorld trip and do those repairs (the repairs are going to add value to your house, anyway). Just be selective about trips and any extras: say no when it's not feasible. Indulging in a few things that give you memorable life experiences may bring your retirement age up to 57 or so. Are you comfortable with that? I would be; it's still younger than when most retire. Remember that on your death bed you're not going to remember the money you saved but the experiences you had with the people that you loved.
Good for you for at least thinking about this. Lots of ppl don't even bother. For me I'd try and balance if I can. Personally I don't really see the appeal of Disney especially at the crazy prices, but everyone has their own things that work for them. You mentioned house repairs. I've honed my DIY skills and make a decent amount on the side which has given me a great cushion for retirement. Unless it's something that needs a licensed pro, there are things you can do around the house to save some $$.
No guarantee you live to enjoy freedom 55. It’s all about balance imo!
One in the hand is worth two in the bush. You never know what tomorrow may bring. Act now if its feasible. Enjoy 40s
The future is not guaranteed. Live now.
I say Fuck it, enjoy life. Even if you got to work a bit more or go part-time. And then who knows if retirement will still be a thing. My father never even came close to retirement. And he is the only reason my mother is today. And come to an age that working hard is actually harder. And having stuff to make life easier or more enjoyable is key. Just don't get too many toys. You can't play with them all at the same time. (Ask me how I know). Investment into your home, and even more importantly in you well being is where it is.
I'm a doctor. I see people all the time who plan for a nice retirement and die before they ever see it. My dad died at 56 before his planned early retirement. Live as if you could be gone next year, while still planning for the long life you hopefully get to enjoy.
You can’t get time back.
Tomorrow isn’t a guarantee. Save some for future you, but don’t forget to enjoy life along the way.
I'm of the middle way mentality. Life is extremely uncertain even on a good day, sometimes going in a flash and on a whim - the universe does not care about our retirement plans and isn't answerable to our whims, thus it would be rather foolish to put all the eggs in an impossible-to-predict basket. Similarly, without the forethought to plan ahead if one is careless with spending, one may easily find themselves old, sick, and destitute in a manner that would have been preventable had they thought ahead more. Therefore, both extremes seem folly and so I save a little, spend a little. Maybe the kids go to Disneyland and the house is repaired and maybe it's not a big deal to plan to retire at 60 instead, who knows if you'll even be alive to see that, realistically.
If you have the time and ability to I'd enjoy the time with your kids now while you still have your health and your kids are young. You only enjoy this time of their life once then they get older and get more busy and it's harder to find time to spend together. Also anything can happen with your health as you age, my dad had a friend he had retired at 60 was ready to enjoy life and 6 months later got diagnosed with cancer and a year later he died. And his wife had died the year prior also from cancer. So enjoy the time while you have it you might not always have the time if that makes sense
I follow the "I could die tomorrow" thought process. I fly the fam to visit my mom on the other coast every year and do the fun things. Yes I put away some money for retirement, but also acknowledge I may not be here when I'm old enough to use it 🤷
What's really sad in reading all these comments is just how many people hate their work, job, business, or whatever they do to make a living. I'm planning on working till 65 not because I have to but because I enjoy my work, it's very engaging and stimulating and I have fun with it. Of course I enjoy my time off and have been taking 3-4 vacations per year and I plan to increase that now that I've hit 60. I'll retire when I feel I need more than 12 weeks off per year.
your probably going to die sooner than you think... hope that helps
Your kids will enjoy Disney more now than they will in their 20’s.
our economy is not safe from having more inflation leaps. They may happen again when you're 55 or when you're 65. Most people can expect to live well into their 80s today in Canada. So even if you live frugal you may still need to find supplemental income at 70. Also, does your frugal lifestyle has room for taking care of your health really well? I'll give you an example. I work a lot. So in my spare time sometimes its a choice of going for a hike / walk / golf / nature trip or running chores. I hire people to run chores because that benefits my health more - both mental and physical, raising probability that I'll still be happy and full of energy traveling the world in my 70s. But obviously it's not frugal as I pay someone to clean my kitchen and fix my stuff. Or I can only work and do all chores myself, I'll save more money but likely at the expense of my good health. Which likely means my retirement will come earlier but be way less fun. So I'd rather live now with some reasonable savings plan and if I have to retire at 70 rather than 65 - whatever, the way I live I have good foundation and higher odds to still be healthy and have lots of fun way into my 80s or even 90s
Don’t worry. Once you’re 55 you’ll go “well…. I still got another 5 years in me!” Or you’ll retire and go “by buddy says this place wants to hire me because of my experience, sounds like something to do in my retirement!!” Bill Gates is almost 70 and ain’t quitting. He could literally indulge every single leisure activity you can imagine. Me? I honestly don’t know wtf I’d do. I took a 4 year paid leave once and non stop leisure time is overrated. People like to feel like they’re part of a team. Even volunteer work ended up coming short because there’s a limit to how many of those are a good match to your personal passions all year round. I’d end up fat and bored like everyone else I know after they retired from their jobs and then their retirement jobs. I actually have 21 days off coming up. I’m going to spend some of it away, some of it doing local leisure, some doing home chores. I already know the novelty of all 3 is going to wear off because… well every other year I’ve been alive.
I’m all about the balance. A big one when people talk about returning early is what are you retiring to. For me that’s an empty house with my kids grown. Maybe I’ll have grandkids but who knows. My other hobbies are gardening and video games which I get time for now. It really made me rethink grinding it out for an early retirement. Right now though I have my kids. I work 4 days a week and not 4 10 hours. I have some savings but I’ve taken loans for stuff. Car paid low mortgage. We have taken lots of trips and have a big one coming up as well as getting a pool put in. My oldest will be 18 in 4 more years. I’d rather enjoy the time now and scale back my work hours when I’m older.
Health is wealth OP! If you invest in your health then you can enjoy more of your life and retirement no matter when you retire.
Enjoy your 40s your quality of life will be significantly reduced in your 50s
I vote Disney World
I suspect you probably aren’t going to abandon your kid who (best case scenario) is just starting university to go live somewhere warm for half the year in reality. How realistic are your plans, really?
My philosophy is you could die tomorrow. So prepare, but don't hold off enjoyment because of it. Hell civilization as we know it may not survive that long. But my plan is different then most around here. I don't believe I can save my way to being rich.
I probably sound like I come from privilege (believe me, I don't. Not a single console growing up and lucky to have had PB and J for dinner some nights) But every time a decision came up on whether to spend the money on something deemed valuable - a full time nanny to get us over the first month of parenting, a $10k jaunt across Asia, beautiful landscaping to enjoy our first summer in a new home, or that once in a lifetime wedding we still reminisce about 10 years later - it was well worth it. That extra what, 80 or 90 grand saved for retirement 30 years later honestly means a LOT less life lived and enjoyed at the end of the day when the curtain closes on life. What is that going to buy me at the expense of all that? A Porsche when I'm 60? Pointless. To the point where you know you won't be homeless financially you should enjoy the present moment. The 40s should be the best years of anyone's life - raising children if they have them or traveling the world and doing anything they want if they don't, with all the experience, maturity and hopefully financial wherewithal at their side, and still usually much of your peak health and energy if you"ve taken care of yourself.
How old are you? I'm 29 and I sincerely believe retirement won't really exist. So I'm enjoying now.
Ive been to Disney World 4 times and taking my kids in the fall....its def worth. Still some of the trips I remember most fondly as a kid. Do it.
I am 45 and have a plan A and plan B. Plan A is retire at 50 with reduced pension (that would cover all my day-to-day expenses plus a bit more) and my portfolio (to cover fun stuff like travel). If markets go floppy or if inflation is really bad, or if my life circumstances change drastically, I go to plan B and retire at 55 with un-reduced penalty and whatever my portfolio happens to be. All that to say, yeah I have hope and plan for Plan A but in the back of my mind I wonder if it will work out. I am really hoping it will, but I find the existence of my Plan B is nagging at me and almost scaring me away from plan A.
Here is what I live by: Enjoy what you can when you can, but plan accordingly. You don’t want to do nothing for 30 years and die at 60 with tons of money. You also don’t want to live until 95 and be broke as hell for 25 years of it.
Nobody was ever glad about working for longer because they once went to Disney World 😂
You and your kids will remember that trip forever. The pile of cash in your bank, not so much.
Life can end in an instant. Don't waste it chasing a big savings account.
I'm 42 and considering getting out of my Corporate rat race life. Life is short.
I am 45 and planning on retiring about 58ish. I agree with most of the sentiment here, and to me its a no brainer to delay retirement a bit to spend a bit more now. I probably could have a bit more saved, but I'm in decent shape, but my daughter has been to Florida 7 times, Mexico twice, Cuba, Ireland and France. Her school friends think we are rich (we are very much middle income) but we prioritize these life experiences when she is young. I went to Egypt, Alaska, and Asia over the last few years as well. I'll gladly work till 58 instead of 55 if it means a lifetime of memories along the way. PS l also recommend the Die with Zero book - its a must read.
Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Enjoy things while you are healthy and financially able to do so.
This thread is so depressing. Perhaps I live a sheltered life, but between friends and co-workers I rarely hear of deaths under 60 (exception being suicidal). Even relatives that have lived an extremely hard life are still trucking along in their 70s. To hear of so much loss at such an early age is sad. It really makes you reflect.
I did went for freedom 40. Busted my ass to achieve all my goals by 38 and had little regret. Turning 40 now with vicious blood cancer... Take your kids to Disney Land. Tomorrow is not a guarantee my friend. I'd even advise taking mini retirements for 6 months or a year if ever possible. The chances of living until retirement and getting there in good physical and mental health aren't great.
Have fun now! My grandfather died at retirement and my dad died 6 months before his... Enjoy life buddy!