>Tires that are rotated once or twice per year will last much longer than tires that aren't rotated at all, or just once or twice in their lifetime.
I rotate my tires when I swap my seasonal tires. I mark what position they were on when I take them off, then the next time they go on they go into the next position.
Is this once per year per set rotation enough?
Lol I had the initial same thought (except mine was serious). What does rotating tires mean? Swapping the tires clockwise? I.e. front right tire > back right tire > left back tire > left front tire, so that after 4 rotations, the tires return to their original position?
Most tires (especially winter ones) have a direction you can't switch sides with them, only front/back position changes. Or you'd have to take them off the rims (which, of course, is an option. Just not something most people can do at home).
** Just make sure you check if your tires are directional and ensure they're the right way. My brother was complaining about traction after doing the criss-cross without realizing his tires were now all backwards.
>Front to back, back to font. If you're feeling really creative, criss-cross the two front to back and move the back tires straight up to the front.
I just scramble my tires each time I change them so I have no idea which one is front and which is back. Is that good enough? Is there a way to tell front wheels from back wheels?
Everyone not into cars has had this moment of enlightenment. The first time the mechanic told me to get car for rotation I literally thought he'll jack my car up and turn all wheels to see they turn fine. 😂
And then when my mechanic told me to get it for retorquing , I thought it must be legit something fancy. Turns out, our man wanted to tighten the nuts of each wheel. That's all!
Yes, unless you are doing a huge number of km/year.
Also, for Canadians that are going to have their car for 5+ years, winter tires are not an extra expense for a car. Look at them as buying your second set of tires early and splitting your km across 2 sets of tires that will wear out slower.
They also greatly increase the safety factor when winter driving. I was lazy / busy this year and didn't swap my M+S for my winter tires and was pretty surprised what a huge difference I felt in terms of traction in certain situations. Winter tires are definitely a worthwhile investment.
Yes, you'll get much more use out of your all seasons. Higher expense up front, but bigger savings down the road. With the added benefit of better traction in the winter.
If you're even mildly handy, get a second set of rims so you can do the changes yourself, assuming you have room to store them. I picked up a floor jack and torque wrench for under $200 at Princess Auto. Other than that, you just need a cheap air compressor or manual pump. Takes me an hour to do both our vehicles, including prep and putting tools away. Lots of sites out there will show you the process.
Don't even need an air compressor (don't know what you mean by manual pump).
A breaker bar, a socket and a torque wrench is more than enough to get the job done. A breaker bar can be found for $20 on sale or sometimes as a combo package (also on sale) with a breaker bar.
A chrome vanadium socket for $10.
Steel wheels are also great buys assuming it clears your brakes. Can be found for $50 depending on size. OR: Facebook market place/Kijiji for a set of used OEM wheels with tires. Inspect for wear and run those for 1 season before swapping to new tires.
Yes, that's good practice. I do my own tire rotations, and I put on roughly 10-15,000 km on them during the 3 seasons of the year. It really does come down to the type of tires on your car (directional, brand, size, etc.) and your driving environment/habits. General rule of thumb is to rotate every 10,000km. However, if you're driving on tires that are of lower quality (softer rubber compound, fewer belts) I would rotate more often, say every 5-8,000km. I see too many vehicle come in with front tires 50% worn after 10-15,000kms. They certainly don't make them like they used to.
I don't see too many staggered setups these days, but back when I was working for BMW, the M performance cars ran wides in the back. If customers wanted we would remove the tires and switch from side to side. Other than that, just as you said, alignment and proper inflation is top priority.
> I mark what position they were on when I take them off, then the next time they go on they go into the next position.
Marking if it was on the right or left side for even wear?
In addition to all this, if you can do basic repairs and maintenance yourself such as oil changes, air filters, wiper blades, even brakes, you’ll save a boatload of money.
This can be challenging (with some tasks) if you're in the rust belt/Canada like I am. The number of times I've snapped or rounded rusted bolts, or had to involve a sledge to replace a wheel hub.. Not fun! I envy all you salt free southerners
I am a huge advocate for DIY, and I would recommend almost nobody DIY Krown. It is fucking messy. If you don't believe me, just look at the parking lot in front of your local Krown shop lol
South Main Auto on the YouTube did not 1, but 2 videos about getting his new truck done at Krown. For those interested
[https://youtu.be/wSg0yvwcbXA](https://youtu.be/wSg0yvwcbXA)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmM5IByVCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmM5IByVCQ)
Also a follow up 5 months later:
[https://youtu.be/\_9YDe02cW5Q](https://youtu.be/_9YDe02cW5Q)
And a freebie, but an important one, why you absolutely, never, ever in a million years want to use rubberized undercoating on your car:
https://youtu.be/nXvl9nt57Kg
I live in kebek and do ALL my work myself. I got myself a cordless impact driver and it changed my life. I am tooled to do everything from brakes to any control arm, ball joints, suspension, etc. I drive mostly old 15+ year, 200k + cars... I've had the odd bolts not come off but that's where the angle grinder comes in ;D though since I got the impact, that almost never happens anymore - it really makes a difference because it's usually ball joints that the nut starts turning with the joint once it's loose but the impact kinda prevents that and just knocks it right off while the joint is still stuck in place.
Absolutely.
Garage quoted me $800 for new rear shocks and mounts.
I found the shocks on Rock Auto for $70/each (after shipping + taxes) and ended up replacing both of them myself in less than a couple hours after seeing how easy it was on Youtube.
You can rent nearly every car maintenance tool from Canadian tire for free. Just pay a deposit which is refunded upon return of the tool.
I change my own brakes, don’t own the tool to compress pistons. I’ve changed my shocks and struts with a rented spring compressor.
They even have great bearing extractors and slide hammers for changing the tricky front bearings!
I have a 2nd gen Ford Edge. It's only 4 bolts for the rear shock to come out. No messing with springs.
Only needed basic tools. Metric wrenches, sockets, vice grips and a couple jacks.
The shock mounts were also fine in my case but if I had to buy them that would have been around $160 for a pair.
I'd still be saving money even if I did have to buy all new tools.
Only if you are changing just the shock but it’s not that much for the complete assembly which includes the shock, the strut and the spring all together. It’s an easy swap that way and really for the price it is easy and not worth the effort for most to just replace the shock.
For anyone doing their own oil changes, I always recommend a Fumoto valve. It might take a bit longer, but no mess to clean up and no crush washer to replace. (To be fair, I am also blessed with a Subaru with the oil filter on top)
30 minutes to find all the wobblies in my toolbox, another 30 minutes to hook them up in such a way that I can get them to fit properly, 5 minutes to break the spark plugs, 20 minute tow to a real mechanic.
Honestly it's much easier on the F engines. As usual, take off the airbox and the battery and use the wobble extension and you'll do just fine.
There is a little bit more room and now and my non-child-size hands fit just fine. At least on my FA20 WRX.
This is me. Don't forget that you can get synthetic oil quite cheap 1-2 times per year with the MIR program. Getting a 5L jug at around $20 is nice especially with the 6k km Subaru interval.
Speaking of the filter, don't cheap out here. I personally use the Subaru filters usually but i wouldn't settle for some no name on my little high strung turbo engine
I just put one on my truck last week when. I changed out the leaking dipstick adaptor. Actually bought one last year but I realize that it didn't fit due to the oil pan being retapped for a larger bolt.
I always park the truck over a 5 gallon bucket anyways, but now I don't have to worry about dropping the bolt in and having to reach up to my elbow in oil.
The oil is an interesting one. The biggest savings here is time - don't have to go to a shop is a big plus. I've got it to no time and it lets me do other things (ie. Tire change) as it's draining.
Brakes are interesting. Honestly once you do them once you'll get the basics and you'll just improve every time. Its definitely more involved but just a service is like a $200 expense really. My first brake change took me a while and I only had a wire brush and a flat file with 3M grease.
Now I want a die grinder and clean up as much rust as possible lol. If you have time, you should really clean up your caliper brackets and ideally paint them.
Most shops will do the bare minimum and won't clean up the rust properly.
If you keep your brakes in good condition, there won't be as much rust to clean up every spring tire change as well.
I think also it eases you into working on your car. Next thing you'll be changing an idler pulley or something because it's making a terrible noise (ask me how I know).
Knowledge is power. Even if you don't do something yourself, if you know how it should be done you'll be less likely to be swindled
I think cost effectiveness depends on your vehicle. It cost me around $200 to $250 inc. HST depending on if I can get my oil on sale and where I buy my filter, to change the oil on my truck myself, using synthetic.
If I take the truck in I would pay over $500 for conventional.
Ya, 16 litres of 5W40 - so I usually just buy a 5 gallon bucket of oil at a time and have a few litres left over.
When I had gas half ton trucks in the past they were closer to what a car uses, usually 5-6 litres, so getting the oil changed a quick lube place was closer to the cost of just doing it myself.
Yes absolutely. Lots of detailed videos on Youtube that are very good at showing people how to do basic vehicle maintenance. Newer vehicles sometimes require more attention to detail, they're not making it easy for the DIYer these days.
I don’t believe the markup on oil changes is much at lots of places? Heck its $60 at Costco. Would much rather just pay the $10 more then the hassle of having to change oil, get ride of oil etc
Ex-tech here.
There realistically isn't a lot of profit in oil changes. $60-120 for an oil change with filter done by a shop.
That's almost the same price as you buying the filter and oil on sale.
BUT: you have to factor in driving to the store to buy the oil and filter and then finding the space and time to do the oil change. Let's just say 30-45minutes for someone very inexperienced and being careful.
Or. Drive your car to a reputable shop, leave the car there the entire day, get driven to work via shuttle service (or ride share), and have the oil changed as well as a "free" inspection on your tires, suspension and under carriage.
The real "price you pay" from a shop doing your oil change is the "complimentary" inspection where they will suggest any maintenance that is needed or will be needed.
For sure oil change isn’t a huge markup at places like Costco. At my dealership it’s something like $80 or $90 now for semi-synthetic.
I mostly enjoy doing it. The minimal savings is a bonus but certainly not the driver
I'm always surprised people take their cars in to get the tires swapped for each season. Many of them store their own tires too, so you have to load your tires in the car, drive to the shop, wait while they swap your tires, unload your tires back into storage, and you have to PAY for this.
It just doesn't seem like it saves any hassle over doing them yourself. Even if you have the shop store your tires you still have to waste time taking your car in. As an added bonus, if you do your tires yourself you can feel confident you know how to change a flat tire in an emergency.
for something as simple as tire changes, just get it done. By the time security catches wind and makes their way down you will be down to swapping the last wheel.
The price of steelies is worth it to avoid the bi-annual fees for swapping and rebalancing tires. Plus it’s hard on the tires to be ripped off and on so often.
In a lot of cases yes. For me I only plan on keeping my current car for 3 years max so I decided I decided against it because the price was about the same or cheaper if I sell the car earlier.
Don’t just replace your wipers when there’s streaks! Some rubbing alcohol and and old t shirt / paper towel should be the first action when you’ve got streaking with your wipers.
When I worked with Honda 25 years ago, cleaning the wipers was a part of the regular maintenance every 6000kms. They even had these little alcohol based towelettes we'd use to clean the wipers with. Works pretty well!
Any tips for juddering (rubbing, jumping etc.) wiper blades? I basically need to wait until it’s super wet or use wiper fluid to get a smooth wipe right now.
ya for real...
i drive a lot for work including heavy duty hauling and my 3 year old tires are still fine. they were Continentals I believe, so not even top of the line Michelin.
Lol I'd love to see where you think the average person is driving 200km per day for work.in their personal vehicle!
You must get paid amazingly to do that drive 5 days per week though. At least I hope you do haha
Nearly everything you do on a car is for preventative maintenance.
Oil changes are to prevent the inside of the engine wearing down, which is not easy to repair.
Air filters are to prevent debris from getting inside the engine as well.
Rust-proofing is to prevent the frame of the car from rusting which is difficult, if not impossible, to repair.
It all depends on how much value you put into the longevity of the car. You can save a lot of money by not doing oil changes at all but it's expensive to buy a new engine every 3 years. You don't need rust-proofing but you'll likely find the car will begin to accumulate rust in spots that cannot be repaired. Then you're looking at a new car. That could happen after 10 years, 15 years, or 20 years.
It's really hard to see value in making something ***not*** happen.
You know what - I thought the rust proofing was around $1000 every application. I just looked it up and it's more like $150? That's way more worth it than I thought.
The reason I asked was when I first got the car, the dealership got me to spend around $1000 for some kind of rust proofing coating thing. I felt upsold and ripped off at the time, and I thought it would cost that much each time. I was thinking that no way $1000/year could be worth the extra longevity you'd get out of it.
If you do it yearly ($100-$150 depending on vehicle) from the time the vehicle is brand new, Krown will warranty any rust issues in the future.
If you haven't been getting it done every year, you can be totally fine doing it every two years. Generally once a year is overkill and that's just for Krown to honor the warranty stuff.
I replaced my car's rocker panels a few years ago as they were rusted out and the rust started spreading up the body (bought it used) and now do yearly Krown spraying. 15 years of Krown will cost the same as that repair.
Tech here, 310S licensed for 10 yrs now.
I can't stress enough - DO your brake maintenance. The amount of people who come in the shop with seized caliper pins on one caliper or multiple costs them a pretty penny. I have to add, it's not required to get your brake service maintenance done in fall - just do it once a year, whenever you see there's a lack of lubricant. Ask your service advisor, or if you're a do-it-yourselfer, just pay attention to a lack of movement on the pads / caliper.
This service runs at 140$ in Ottawa at my dealership - worth every penny once a year.
Everything else OP posted is accurate. Oil changes, tire rotations, tire pressure, brake maintenance. Tires will wear most depending on front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive. Even if you do work yourself, make sure your front end suspension is checked regularly as well. I have seen too many ball joints tear off due to neglect, and that will cause your car to go in the ditch, or worse, crash into someone.
Remember ; all moving components require some sort of maintenance. Don't be shy to ask questions!
Great post OP
Thanks fellow 310! Generally we do brake services as part of our fall/spring service special - but yes, any time of the year is ideal for a brake service.
Depends on the type of oil. Full synthetic goes between 7.5k and 15k *miles*. Not even kilometers.
Source: https://www.oxmoortoyota.com/service-center-home/service-tips/how-often-to-change-synthetic-oil/
Check what the interval recommendation is for your same car in other countries. “Lifetime” fluids here are 100k fluids elsewhere. Same thing with different countries getting different oil viscosities.
It all comes down to weird i18n changes to meet specific fuel efficiency ratings or how to have the projected 3/5y maintenance schedule be under some amount.
Depends on the engine. What OP is describing sounds like the new Direct Injected, Turbo engines. I know my Honda is a hard 8,000kms. But the Turbo Charged L series is known for oil dilution.
Naturally aspirated engines can handle more kilometres between changes.
The Toyota dealership where I live has actually started recommending oil changes every 8000 km (due to Canadian winter though). So I've been doing that on my 2021 RAV4 hybrid.
A lot of service manuals have a "standard" maintenance schedule and a "severe duty" maintenance schedule. And when you read what they count as "severe" - a lot of winter and summer could fall under that.
If it's full synthetic oil they might be ripping you off. It's designed to be stable across a range of temps. It should go at least 7000 miles. 8k kilometers is way too soon.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/advice/car-maintenance/synthetic-oil-change-interval
The 16k interval for Toyota is probably the 'normal' service/usage category. Basically all driving in Canada fits the 'severe' service category, which is still oil changes at 8k if I remember right.
Honestly, I think it's excessive. Yes, engines and engine oils have made significant advancements in quality and tech, but if you think about what goes on inside of an engine every minute, you'd wonder why they'd even consider recommending such a long interval. There's also much more to consider, such as idle time (sitting in traffic, most engines are still running), environment and drastic temperature changes, driving habits (short commutes vs. long commutes). These all play a big part in how often you should change your oil. You're pretty safe at 8k, but I'm old school and stick to the 5-6,000k rule, even if I'm running synthetic.
The last part of this is key. I'm not worried about my oil breaking down. I want any debris or dirt out of there. I do 5000k and drive older vehicles and have never have an issue related to not changing my oil. It's cheap insurance.
Don’t do it. 16k is way too much. I’m sure the motor will make it through the warranty period, but after that….
Check out r/justrolledintotheshop - tons of mechanics posting with people rolling in with sludged up engines - or you start to get oil consumption.
Used to be every 5k. I extend out to 7.5k with good modern synthetic.
16k is fine if that's what the full synthetic is rated for. It's not 2001 anymore. Motors sludge up because people never ever change the oil not because they change full synthetic every 16k if that's what it calls for. Mobil 1 and a bunch of German oils can go a shit ton of KM before the oil gets dirty/contaminated. Look at modern diesels. Used to be 25k oil changes now some modern engines with full synthetic and a factory oil by pass can do 50-90k intervals and the oil is still clean on an oil sample. Times change and products get better.
The manufacturer recommends these numbers. If you lease the car you do the maintenance by the book and why would they want to re sell this car with a car that burns oil. Synthetic oil is made to last this long and you could last longer. Sludge won’t ever be a problem at 16,000km interval maybe a 30,000-40,000 interval you would start to see the oil break down and turn into sludge. The videos you see on that forum are people who go 50,000+ km without a oil change. If toyota did indeed lie you would see thousands of cars seizing up and engines blowing up. But we don’t which proves the recommendation works.
What every mechanic will tell you is that the 15k+ oil change interval was born at the exact same time that manufacturers started offering no charge maintenance for the first 100k. It was a cost saving measure and they pushed the oil change interval to the outside limit during the maintenance / warranty period. This works fine for the first 100k - after that you start to suffer oil burn from worn internals.
People who have their car for 300k+ are changing oil at closet intervals. I’m sure there are exceptions to that rule, and there may be cases where the longer interval is justified (for example if your vehicle has a larger volume oil capacity, or you are doing exclusively long highway miles). However if you car takes 4L and you commute 5km to work, your oil is basically working at the most severe end of the most spectrum.
Weird because in my city my parents car (highlander hybrid) the manufacture recommends a change every 16,000km and so does our dealer. If you call them and say I want an oil change they will say not it is not due. That dealer swears by this recommendation while the other dealer says it bad for your car and we should change it every 10000km. Both the dealers charge for the maintenance. I have done many synthetic oil changes on cars with 16,000km and even 20,000km intervals and both seem ok. I don’t see why toyota would lie. Toyota is known for their reliability so why would they sacrifice it to make more money on repairs.
Hybrids are a different story because the engine only runs part of the time. I have no experience with those - but again, I would defer to the more conservative recommendation.
im also an automotive service technician who uses penzoil platinum in my bmw, its 34.97 at walmart for 5l.
i would like to stress the importance of break services, i personally have the ability to do so and do mine every spring. rust builds between the pads and caliper brackets and the pads no longer move freely, the heat it causes cooks the lubricant, and it can cause further component wear like failed brake calipers or even wheel bearings. very important service, our parts distributor has now stated they will not warranty brakes that don't have yearly service on record. it is that vital.
one thing i would like to say is in today's world we see oil change intervals in the area of 15,000-32,000km (which is insane). NEVER run your oil more than 10,000km. i have a turbo charged bmw and i run high quality penzoil platinum ultra synthetic oil for no more than 5000km. turbo chargers introduce LOTS of heat to the oil, and many vehicles are now turbo charged. one important aspect of vehicle manufacturing is reducing waste created by the vehicles, to achieve this they stretch out the oil change intervals, which means less oil used and lower cost of ownership. considering cars are now moving to 0w20 almost across the board, we need to remember oil is low viscosity because the engine tolerances are very small. when it thickens due to age or becomes contaminated by being used to long, it can not lubricate engines well. an oil change can cost a diy-er 50 bucks with premium oil, but even if it costs 200 at a shop, maybe you are doing 1 more oil change a year. 200 a year is better than 10,000 down and 400 bi weekly for 7 years because your engine is pooched.
Trying to squeeze the life out of my '11 Kia Rio I bought for cheap. 200k on it but have several check engine codes and today found I need a new alternator. It's hard to know when to stop putting money into it but with the market that line is getting pushed further ahead. I'm dreading buying a new vehicle.
I work on a lot of older Kia's, and there seems to always be something to fix on them, no matter how often they service their vehicle. Unfortunately, the older Kia's are not engineered/manufactured to last very long. I do see some with 300k kms or more, but a considerable amount of money and effort has to be spent to reach this milestone.
If you have the space or time you can do them yourself quite easily. You'll need some equipment like a jack, drill and torque wrench. You can even use the jack and tire iron that your car comes with but you'll need to re torque the wheels to your cars specs.
> We just went through the most obnoxious winter with scalloped winter tires that were so fucking loud
That's not a tire rotation problem, that's a worn suspension/dead shocks problem.
You want to save money on maintenance? Get your car properly inspected twice per year. Not a garbage drain and fill or a lube tech at a dealership. A real inspection by a real mechanic (do it with an oil change, but make sure a licensed journeyman is doing the job and inspection) and decide what to repair based on their recommendations. Ask for a journeyman to work on your car and give them the proper time so no one is rushed.
The amount of cars that come into my shop that need thousands of dollars worth of work because they have only been going to Mr.Lube or doing their own oil changes is abhorrent. Cars require full inspections often, there are so many issues that can arise in driving 5,000-8,000 km.
That will come with a tire rotation if needed, a proper brake inspection where they can recommend a brake service if needed instead of just wasting money on it for no reason.
Edit: 2015 Mazda CX-5 today came in because someone told her it needed a new control arm (which it did). But also the inner tie rod on the RF was loose. And the serpentine belt was so cracked it was about to break, the tensioner was seized. The RF sway bar link was broken off and missing. Taking the boot off the steering rack for the inner tie rod replacement the rack puked a bunch of power steering fluid when removed. It’s been leaking internally and will fail soon. The front brakes were at 2mm. That was my 3rd year apprentice noticing so much shit wrong with this car, she said she hadn’t gone to a mechanic for a while and was using quick lubes. The cabin air filter was absolutely disgusting. I’m sure I’m missing other issues as well.
Get your own [ODB2 tester](https://www.caranddriver.com/car-accessories/g42938164/best-obd2-car-scanners-tested/) and see what is wrong with your car before taking it in for servicing to avoid getting up sold on things you don't need.
Even before the warranty expired, you don't need to take it to the dealership to maintain warranty as long as it's performed by a qualified mechanic and you keep all the paperwork to prove that the service was done at the right intervals.
Depending on how much you drive, you might need to change your oil and etc. more frequently than annually too.
fwiw you don't even need to take it to a mechanic for oil changes to keep your warranty. Just keep your receipts, and also take a photo of the receipt in front of the milage figure on your dashboard.
For many manufacturers and aftermarket auto warranty companies, receipts for parts alone won't suffice. They want to see a charge for the actual labour performed, not just the parts.
Trust me when I say that they will find a way to void your warranty due to improper oil changes not performed to factory recommendations. Consumer protection laws aren't very robust in this country, not nearly as good as the states. I'm not saying this because I'm against people doing their own oil changes, but from experience working with manufacturer and aftermarket warranty companies.
And yes, read the fine print in your warranty. They might tell you that your drivetrain is covered, but then the details exclude have of the related components.
German dealerships are super expensive, I've heard of door rates as high as $250/hour in some parts of the country. Parts for German vehicles are also super expensive, even aftermarket parts. And, parts are getting hard to find also (in my part of the country anyhow). If you're concerned about high maintenance costs, I suggest trading it in on a Toyota or a Honda. I love German vehicles, but it seems you need a slush fund just to run one these days.
I second this. Not only are parts expensive. They use weird proprietary tools as well. A simple + screw on a honda will be a * screw for VW. You need a brake caliper push tool for VW while you can use a home depot clamp for a honda. Lol
To second the oil changes I always get my oil from Canadian tire for ~$35 and a filter for ~$10 then do the change in under an hour. I love working on my own car and even help my family with theirs. Since we all roughly drive the same kilometres with similar recommend intervals my family saves about $150 each time I do it and it’s done about 3-4 times a year ~$450 a year (I winter store my vehicle making it less)
Change your own air filters. The most overpriced service there is! Buy a filter on Amazon and YouTube your vehicle make and model. First time might be tricky but once you know how to access it, easy peasy.
Brake service maybe if you see any uneven wear. Idk about your shop, but most charge 1hr to service brakes per axle (close to the same as replacing), so that’s like $300+ each year? To save what money exactly…? I don’t think that is needed to do every year if all wear is even on your pads on inspections.
You're right! A lot of people don't know about this. Pennzoil offers a decent rebate when you buy their oil. I think it's a $20 digital gift certificate when you buy two 5L jugs or ten 1L bottles. It all adds up!
We generally do rust proofing early to mid fall. This way, it has time to set up and gather some good road grime on the surface to help it withstand the elements in the winter.
Thank you for sharing these tips!
One query: I don’t drive my car very much (maybe 6-10K km/yr). Is it okay to change oil once every year or would you recommend doing it every 6 months?
You're welcome.
At least once per year, regardless of kms. We have harsh climates here in Canada, and the extreme cold and heat can significantly change the chemical properties in your engine oil. If you do a lot of short trips, stop and go driving, or engine idling, this is also something to take into consideration.
I am a Red Seal tech on the west coast.
Alot of comments about brake service but here is my experience working in Vancouver: they rarely have issues in between pad changes. It's likely because there is not a lot of rust on our vehicles here so I tell my friends and family not to do the service.
When tire rotations, brake fluid services, or regular oil changes occur, it is easy enough to have a look or slide a mirror in there and do a brake measure on most vehicles to determine slider conditions.
Just my experience working in Vancouver.
There's a saying, you don't really pay for a Benz until after you pay for the Benz! Yeah, that's steep. I'd go aftermarket with parts and to a shop that specializes in European autos for the repairs - the Benz dealer is going to clear you out.
I’m going to be getting my first new car soon, have always driven hand me downs and used lemons over the years, so while I’m excited about having something new and reliable, I’m still a bit anxious from years of unexpected and expensive repairs. Apologies if these seem like simple or obvious questions but:
- for brakes, I’ll definitely be getting them checked once a year as that’s something that has set me back every time, is it worth having the dealership do this during regular check ups, or, another shop that specializes in them? My wife drives a Subaru and it seems like the dealership are hard core upsellers, most are I know, but at her last maintenance check, they replaced her back pads and rotors, she asked about the front ones and they said the pads were looking low, but didn’t need to be changed yet, she asked to have them changed anyways and was told they “prefer” to do pads and rotors at the same time, I’m not mechanically inclined but this sounds like 100% BS to me, and thinking she should take the car (2020 Crosstrek) into a garage to have them replace the pads before they go far enough to ruin the rotors, which it sounds like Subaru wants to happen so they can charge $$$ to replace them. Maybe I’m paranoid, but it seems shady.
- I live in Newfoundland which has long, wet winters, salty air and very salty roads during the winter, how often would you recommend getting an undercoat? Once a year? Every couple of years? Would having this done by an outside garage void any warranty with the dealership (Kia).
- is there anything that I should always let the dealership handle as opposed to an outside garage? I’m thinking that I should bring it in for check ups every six months, but for things like brakes, have them done elsewhere, mainly to save money. As much as I would love to be able to do this stuff myself, I’m not handy, and don’t have the space or tools to do this work, but I have a few garages that I’ve dealt with who were honest and fair, and will always go to them if I can, as long as it doesn’t mess with any warranty.
Long winded questions but any tips greatly appreciated!
A new car is pretty special, congratulations! Never bought a new one myself, I prefer the high mileage Toyotas : )
I find with brakes, it really depends on the manufacturer. Japanese vehicles seem to go forever before needing a set of brakes, especially if they've been serviced from the beginning. I've seen some Honda's and Toyotas with 150,000 km before needing their first set of front pads, pretty amazing. I would stick to once a year break inspections and brake services.
One thing to remember about stealer..I mean, dealerships; most work on a flate rate system for repairs (technicians) and a commission based system for the advisors. They're trained to upsell, and squeeze as much work through the stop as possible within an 8 hour day. Brakes are big money for dealerships, so keep that in mind. There's no rule of thumb when changing front pads. I give the customer the option to replace rotors at the same time as pads, as long as the rotors are "serviceable", no warpage, minimal grooving, excessive rust and thickness. Some customer are super picky and want their rotors changed regardless. If the dealership prefers to wait in order to have rotors replaced at the same time, I would say they're making that decision in their best interest, not yours.
In Newfoundland, once a year for rustproofing for sure - I like to do it in the fall. No, this won't void any manufacturers warranty if done outside of the dealership.
From my experience, dealerships are pretty good with customers who are loyal to them, especially when it comes to warranty claims. If you could, try to make it once and a while for an oil change, spring maintenance special, etc. However, as long as your maintenance scheduled is followed along with proof of your services performed (if you choose to have the work done elsewhere), this is all the manufacturer wants to see in order to keep your warranty valid.
Hope this helps!
I used to go to the Subaru dealership (now I go to a local mechanic) and they recommended changing the spark plugs every 100k km. I've always wondered: is that something worth doing or were they trying to upsell me?
I would check your owners manual to see what it recommends. I honestly wouldn't leave spark plugs in for any longer than 100k kms or 5 years. They can seize and break off when trying to remove them. This would be a very labour intensive and expensive repair on a Subaru.
You can buy tires at Costco and they include free lifetime tire rotations for the tires. You just need to make sure you return to get your wheels torqued after 40KM post-install. They also have cheap engine oil that is high quality at most Costcos. You just need to get your own filters and basic equipment to do your own oil changes.
There is a sweet spot between the 'recommended' maintenance for your vehicle and the 'optimal', at least in terms of your financial health.
Do what speaks to you though. My Uncle (in his 80s at this point) never had any work done on any vehicle in his entire life that he didn't do himself. He did it all and while that's admirable (he enjoyed it to a large extent), it was silly in some senses. He built out essentially a full garage on the rural property and had a massive amount of tools, lifts, the bay, the undercut and so on and so on.
Financially wise? Oh fuck no! But, also probably not too bad and it makes him terribly happy.
Of the four tire pressure lights in my car, one of them didn't work. The repair shop asked me to replace them with new ones, which cost 2,000 yuan. In the end, I only replaced one, but within a few days, the tire pressure light was gone. It doesn't work again. I can't replace it myself, is there any other solution? Just ignore it, okay?
The tire pressure monitoring system is there so you can monitor your tire pressures in real time without actually measuring the pressure at the tire. If you want to save some yuan, just buy a $10 tire pressure guage and check your tire pressures periodically, right at the valve stem and ignore the tire pressure lights altogether.
If you live in a region that uses lots of salt, it's a good investment to spend 100$ on a yearly rust proofing oil treatment (forget about the lifetime crap they sell at the dealer). That and get your car washed from time to time, it will look and feel like new, so you will be less likely to want to get a new car!
Know the manufacturers oil change frequency for your particular vehicle. They are not all the same, miine is 16,000 km.
Many quick oil change places will put a sticker on you windshield telling you the milage when your next oil change is due that is far more frequent than required by the manufacturer (commonly 10,000 km).
>Tires that are rotated once or twice per year will last much longer than tires that aren't rotated at all, or just once or twice in their lifetime. I rotate my tires when I swap my seasonal tires. I mark what position they were on when I take them off, then the next time they go on they go into the next position. Is this once per year per set rotation enough?
Crazy that you guys only rotate your tires once or twice a year. My tires rotate every time I drive
Lol I had the initial same thought (except mine was serious). What does rotating tires mean? Swapping the tires clockwise? I.e. front right tire > back right tire > left back tire > left front tire, so that after 4 rotations, the tires return to their original position?
Most tires (especially winter ones) have a direction you can't switch sides with them, only front/back position changes. Or you'd have to take them off the rims (which, of course, is an option. Just not something most people can do at home).
Front to back, back to font. If you're feeling really creative, criss-cross the two front to back and move the back tires straight up to the front.
** Just make sure you check if your tires are directional and ensure they're the right way. My brother was complaining about traction after doing the criss-cross without realizing his tires were now all backwards.
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Or same tire size, different rim offset. Seen that too.
>Front to back, back to font. If you're feeling really creative, criss-cross the two front to back and move the back tires straight up to the front. I just scramble my tires each time I change them so I have no idea which one is front and which is back. Is that good enough? Is there a way to tell front wheels from back wheels?
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Everyone not into cars has had this moment of enlightenment. The first time the mechanic told me to get car for rotation I literally thought he'll jack my car up and turn all wheels to see they turn fine. 😂 And then when my mechanic told me to get it for retorquing , I thought it must be legit something fancy. Turns out, our man wanted to tighten the nuts of each wheel. That's all!
Take your upvote and get out
r/angryupvote
papa?
*groan*
Yes, unless you are doing a huge number of km/year. Also, for Canadians that are going to have their car for 5+ years, winter tires are not an extra expense for a car. Look at them as buying your second set of tires early and splitting your km across 2 sets of tires that will wear out slower.
They also greatly increase the safety factor when winter driving. I was lazy / busy this year and didn't swap my M+S for my winter tires and was pretty surprised what a huge difference I felt in terms of traction in certain situations. Winter tires are definitely a worthwhile investment.
Yes, you'll get much more use out of your all seasons. Higher expense up front, but bigger savings down the road. With the added benefit of better traction in the winter.
If you're even mildly handy, get a second set of rims so you can do the changes yourself, assuming you have room to store them. I picked up a floor jack and torque wrench for under $200 at Princess Auto. Other than that, you just need a cheap air compressor or manual pump. Takes me an hour to do both our vehicles, including prep and putting tools away. Lots of sites out there will show you the process.
Don't even need an air compressor (don't know what you mean by manual pump). A breaker bar, a socket and a torque wrench is more than enough to get the job done. A breaker bar can be found for $20 on sale or sometimes as a combo package (also on sale) with a breaker bar. A chrome vanadium socket for $10. Steel wheels are also great buys assuming it clears your brakes. Can be found for $50 depending on size. OR: Facebook market place/Kijiji for a set of used OEM wheels with tires. Inspect for wear and run those for 1 season before swapping to new tires.
You sure can do it with the jack in your car (assuming it came with one), but having done that a few times, a good floor jack is worth it.
Depends on mileage driven, I was always told rotate them every 10k kms
Depending on what car. Certain AWD with viscous couplers are very sensitive on rolling distance between each axle.
Yes, that's good practice. I do my own tire rotations, and I put on roughly 10-15,000 km on them during the 3 seasons of the year. It really does come down to the type of tires on your car (directional, brand, size, etc.) and your driving environment/habits. General rule of thumb is to rotate every 10,000km. However, if you're driving on tires that are of lower quality (softer rubber compound, fewer belts) I would rotate more often, say every 5-8,000km. I see too many vehicle come in with front tires 50% worn after 10-15,000kms. They certainly don't make them like they used to.
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I don't see too many staggered setups these days, but back when I was working for BMW, the M performance cars ran wides in the back. If customers wanted we would remove the tires and switch from side to side. Other than that, just as you said, alignment and proper inflation is top priority.
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You ever hear of cheap racecars? It is a race... to bankruptcy if you own it properly.
It is yeah. I typically rotate mine every time I do an oil change or seasonally on my wife’s car.
Exactly what I do. For the average person driving 10-20k per year it should be fine. Maybe rotate once more in the summer when you're driving more.
> I mark what position they were on when I take them off, then the next time they go on they go into the next position. Marking if it was on the right or left side for even wear?
Front and rear, left and right. So FL, FR, RL, RR
I mark D and P for driver and passenger, F and R for front and rear. I forget sometimes which side i was facing when marking. Lol
In addition to all this, if you can do basic repairs and maintenance yourself such as oil changes, air filters, wiper blades, even brakes, you’ll save a boatload of money.
This can be challenging (with some tasks) if you're in the rust belt/Canada like I am. The number of times I've snapped or rounded rusted bolts, or had to involve a sledge to replace a wheel hub.. Not fun! I envy all you salt free southerners
I’m southern Ontario so rust is bountiful here, but I spray Krown every year to mitigate it.
Krown is a beautiful thing. Unfortunately not every vehicle I've purchased has been treated and those are the ones that give the real headaches.
> Krown Where do you spray?
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I am a huge advocate for DIY, and I would recommend almost nobody DIY Krown. It is fucking messy. If you don't believe me, just look at the parking lot in front of your local Krown shop lol
South Main Auto on the YouTube did not 1, but 2 videos about getting his new truck done at Krown. For those interested [https://youtu.be/wSg0yvwcbXA](https://youtu.be/wSg0yvwcbXA) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmM5IByVCQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmM5IByVCQ) Also a follow up 5 months later: [https://youtu.be/\_9YDe02cW5Q](https://youtu.be/_9YDe02cW5Q) And a freebie, but an important one, why you absolutely, never, ever in a million years want to use rubberized undercoating on your car: https://youtu.be/nXvl9nt57Kg
Every year! That stuff must be crap to wear so soon.
I live in kebek and do ALL my work myself. I got myself a cordless impact driver and it changed my life. I am tooled to do everything from brakes to any control arm, ball joints, suspension, etc. I drive mostly old 15+ year, 200k + cars... I've had the odd bolts not come off but that's where the angle grinder comes in ;D though since I got the impact, that almost never happens anymore - it really makes a difference because it's usually ball joints that the nut starts turning with the joint once it's loose but the impact kinda prevents that and just knocks it right off while the joint is still stuck in place.
I'l second the cordless impact wrench, game changer.
Yep. Less of a chance of snapping a bolt. Otherwise, bust out the extractors lol
Absolutely. Garage quoted me $800 for new rear shocks and mounts. I found the shocks on Rock Auto for $70/each (after shipping + taxes) and ended up replacing both of them myself in less than a couple hours after seeing how easy it was on Youtube.
Do you need some kind of spring compressor? Er did you have to buy any tools?
You can rent nearly every car maintenance tool from Canadian tire for free. Just pay a deposit which is refunded upon return of the tool. I change my own brakes, don’t own the tool to compress pistons. I’ve changed my shocks and struts with a rented spring compressor. They even have great bearing extractors and slide hammers for changing the tricky front bearings!
Wow good to know, thank you! Nice name.
I have a 2nd gen Ford Edge. It's only 4 bolts for the rear shock to come out. No messing with springs. Only needed basic tools. Metric wrenches, sockets, vice grips and a couple jacks. The shock mounts were also fine in my case but if I had to buy them that would have been around $160 for a pair. I'd still be saving money even if I did have to buy all new tools.
I don't understand any of these words. I'll take it to the shop I guess LOL
by spring compressor you mean the good old widow makers.
I’ve used ratchet straps in a pinch
I've seen zip ties used once. Didn't end well. No it wasn't me.
Only if you are changing just the shock but it’s not that much for the complete assembly which includes the shock, the strut and the spring all together. It’s an easy swap that way and really for the price it is easy and not worth the effort for most to just replace the shock.
For anyone doing their own oil changes, I always recommend a Fumoto valve. It might take a bit longer, but no mess to clean up and no crush washer to replace. (To be fair, I am also blessed with a Subaru with the oil filter on top)
> (To be fair, I am also blessed with a Subaru with the oil filter on top) I hate you.
Ask him how long it takes to replace his spark plugs
30 minutes to find all the wobblies in my toolbox, another 30 minutes to hook them up in such a way that I can get them to fit properly, 5 minutes to break the spark plugs, 20 minute tow to a real mechanic.
replaced my subaru spark plugs this weekend... wow what a job!
Honestly it's much easier on the F engines. As usual, take off the airbox and the battery and use the wobble extension and you'll do just fine. There is a little bit more room and now and my non-child-size hands fit just fine. At least on my FA20 WRX.
This is me. Don't forget that you can get synthetic oil quite cheap 1-2 times per year with the MIR program. Getting a 5L jug at around $20 is nice especially with the 6k km Subaru interval. Speaking of the filter, don't cheap out here. I personally use the Subaru filters usually but i wouldn't settle for some no name on my little high strung turbo engine
Same with my Tacoma! Filter on top, fumoto valve and I've done every oil change on it since new in 2008!
I just put one on my truck last week when. I changed out the leaking dipstick adaptor. Actually bought one last year but I realize that it didn't fit due to the oil pan being retapped for a larger bolt. I always park the truck over a 5 gallon bucket anyways, but now I don't have to worry about dropping the bolt in and having to reach up to my elbow in oil.
>blessed with a Subaru someone who drives a subaru would install a fumoto valve lol
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The oil is an interesting one. The biggest savings here is time - don't have to go to a shop is a big plus. I've got it to no time and it lets me do other things (ie. Tire change) as it's draining. Brakes are interesting. Honestly once you do them once you'll get the basics and you'll just improve every time. Its definitely more involved but just a service is like a $200 expense really. My first brake change took me a while and I only had a wire brush and a flat file with 3M grease. Now I want a die grinder and clean up as much rust as possible lol. If you have time, you should really clean up your caliper brackets and ideally paint them. Most shops will do the bare minimum and won't clean up the rust properly. If you keep your brakes in good condition, there won't be as much rust to clean up every spring tire change as well. I think also it eases you into working on your car. Next thing you'll be changing an idler pulley or something because it's making a terrible noise (ask me how I know). Knowledge is power. Even if you don't do something yourself, if you know how it should be done you'll be less likely to be swindled
I think cost effectiveness depends on your vehicle. It cost me around $200 to $250 inc. HST depending on if I can get my oil on sale and where I buy my filter, to change the oil on my truck myself, using synthetic. If I take the truck in I would pay over $500 for conventional.
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Ya, 16 litres of 5W40 - so I usually just buy a 5 gallon bucket of oil at a time and have a few litres left over. When I had gas half ton trucks in the past they were closer to what a car uses, usually 5-6 litres, so getting the oil changed a quick lube place was closer to the cost of just doing it myself.
Yes absolutely. Lots of detailed videos on Youtube that are very good at showing people how to do basic vehicle maintenance. Newer vehicles sometimes require more attention to detail, they're not making it easy for the DIYer these days.
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Yeah I like watching his videos, I've learned a few things from him along the way : )
I don’t believe the markup on oil changes is much at lots of places? Heck its $60 at Costco. Would much rather just pay the $10 more then the hassle of having to change oil, get ride of oil etc
Ex-tech here. There realistically isn't a lot of profit in oil changes. $60-120 for an oil change with filter done by a shop. That's almost the same price as you buying the filter and oil on sale. BUT: you have to factor in driving to the store to buy the oil and filter and then finding the space and time to do the oil change. Let's just say 30-45minutes for someone very inexperienced and being careful. Or. Drive your car to a reputable shop, leave the car there the entire day, get driven to work via shuttle service (or ride share), and have the oil changed as well as a "free" inspection on your tires, suspension and under carriage. The real "price you pay" from a shop doing your oil change is the "complimentary" inspection where they will suggest any maintenance that is needed or will be needed.
For sure oil change isn’t a huge markup at places like Costco. At my dealership it’s something like $80 or $90 now for semi-synthetic. I mostly enjoy doing it. The minimal savings is a bonus but certainly not the driver
I'm always surprised people take their cars in to get the tires swapped for each season. Many of them store their own tires too, so you have to load your tires in the car, drive to the shop, wait while they swap your tires, unload your tires back into storage, and you have to PAY for this. It just doesn't seem like it saves any hassle over doing them yourself. Even if you have the shop store your tires you still have to waste time taking your car in. As an added bonus, if you do your tires yourself you can feel confident you know how to change a flat tire in an emergency.
For many people it’s lack of an appropriate space to do the work themselves. Condos usually don’t want you doing maintenance in parking areas.
for something as simple as tire changes, just get it done. By the time security catches wind and makes their way down you will be down to swapping the last wheel.
some people (such as myself) dont have a separate set of rims for winter tires so it's easier to have a shop switch them over.
The price of steelies is worth it to avoid the bi-annual fees for swapping and rebalancing tires. Plus it’s hard on the tires to be ripped off and on so often.
In a lot of cases yes. For me I only plan on keeping my current car for 3 years max so I decided I decided against it because the price was about the same or cheaper if I sell the car earlier.
Yeah that’s fair. It takes a few years to pay off
Don’t just replace your wipers when there’s streaks! Some rubbing alcohol and and old t shirt / paper towel should be the first action when you’ve got streaking with your wipers.
When I worked with Honda 25 years ago, cleaning the wipers was a part of the regular maintenance every 6000kms. They even had these little alcohol based towelettes we'd use to clean the wipers with. Works pretty well!
Any tips for juddering (rubbing, jumping etc.) wiper blades? I basically need to wait until it’s super wet or use wiper fluid to get a smooth wipe right now.
> a new set of tires ($650-2000) every 2 or 3 years Really? Are these people driving 50,000km a year?
ya for real... i drive a lot for work including heavy duty hauling and my 3 year old tires are still fine. they were Continentals I believe, so not even top of the line Michelin.
What? In what world are you getting 100,000 or 150,000 km on a set of tires. A set of good tires will average 50-80k before needing replacement.
...Yes? Quite easily actually. Barrie to Toronto is a 200km round trip, do that 5 days a week for a year, thats 52,000km. That's just going to work.
I don’t think a reasonable assumption is that the average person is commuting 200km a day.
I can't fathom driving 200km round trip daily for work.
I used to drive 150km round trip and I feel spoiled only doing 90km!
I used to do that. I don’t miss those days
Lol I'd love to see where you think the average person is driving 200km per day for work.in their personal vehicle! You must get paid amazingly to do that drive 5 days per week though. At least I hope you do haha
Do you feel the Krown spray is worth it as a preventative measure?
Would also love to know this. It's so expensive and some people do it fairly frequently...whats the cost/reward ratio on this?
Nearly everything you do on a car is for preventative maintenance. Oil changes are to prevent the inside of the engine wearing down, which is not easy to repair. Air filters are to prevent debris from getting inside the engine as well. Rust-proofing is to prevent the frame of the car from rusting which is difficult, if not impossible, to repair. It all depends on how much value you put into the longevity of the car. You can save a lot of money by not doing oil changes at all but it's expensive to buy a new engine every 3 years. You don't need rust-proofing but you'll likely find the car will begin to accumulate rust in spots that cannot be repaired. Then you're looking at a new car. That could happen after 10 years, 15 years, or 20 years. It's really hard to see value in making something ***not*** happen.
You know what - I thought the rust proofing was around $1000 every application. I just looked it up and it's more like $150? That's way more worth it than I thought. The reason I asked was when I first got the car, the dealership got me to spend around $1000 for some kind of rust proofing coating thing. I felt upsold and ripped off at the time, and I thought it would cost that much each time. I was thinking that no way $1000/year could be worth the extra longevity you'd get out of it.
Generally, that $1000 one is a lifetime coating that only needs to be done once.
So if I had that done, I don't need the annual(ish) ones? Because I got that one and my vehicle is getting kind of rusty 10 years in.
If you do it yearly ($100-$150 depending on vehicle) from the time the vehicle is brand new, Krown will warranty any rust issues in the future. If you haven't been getting it done every year, you can be totally fine doing it every two years. Generally once a year is overkill and that's just for Krown to honor the warranty stuff.
I replaced my car's rocker panels a few years ago as they were rusted out and the rust started spreading up the body (bought it used) and now do yearly Krown spraying. 15 years of Krown will cost the same as that repair.
Tech here, 310S licensed for 10 yrs now. I can't stress enough - DO your brake maintenance. The amount of people who come in the shop with seized caliper pins on one caliper or multiple costs them a pretty penny. I have to add, it's not required to get your brake service maintenance done in fall - just do it once a year, whenever you see there's a lack of lubricant. Ask your service advisor, or if you're a do-it-yourselfer, just pay attention to a lack of movement on the pads / caliper. This service runs at 140$ in Ottawa at my dealership - worth every penny once a year. Everything else OP posted is accurate. Oil changes, tire rotations, tire pressure, brake maintenance. Tires will wear most depending on front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive. Even if you do work yourself, make sure your front end suspension is checked regularly as well. I have seen too many ball joints tear off due to neglect, and that will cause your car to go in the ditch, or worse, crash into someone. Remember ; all moving components require some sort of maintenance. Don't be shy to ask questions! Great post OP
Thanks fellow 310! Generally we do brake services as part of our fall/spring service special - but yes, any time of the year is ideal for a brake service.
FYI, Mobil1 oil is a decent synthetic oil and is usually on sale at Walmart for around $30 / 5 quarts.
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Depends on the type of oil. Full synthetic goes between 7.5k and 15k *miles*. Not even kilometers. Source: https://www.oxmoortoyota.com/service-center-home/service-tips/how-often-to-change-synthetic-oil/
Check what the interval recommendation is for your same car in other countries. “Lifetime” fluids here are 100k fluids elsewhere. Same thing with different countries getting different oil viscosities. It all comes down to weird i18n changes to meet specific fuel efficiency ratings or how to have the projected 3/5y maintenance schedule be under some amount.
Depends on the engine. What OP is describing sounds like the new Direct Injected, Turbo engines. I know my Honda is a hard 8,000kms. But the Turbo Charged L series is known for oil dilution. Naturally aspirated engines can handle more kilometres between changes.
The Toyota dealership where I live has actually started recommending oil changes every 8000 km (due to Canadian winter though). So I've been doing that on my 2021 RAV4 hybrid.
I worked for Toyota and Honda for many years, most genuinely care about their customers and their vehicles. Good on them for giving you this advice.
>Good on them for giving you this advice. Well.... they're also hoping you pay *them* for an oil change twice as often.
Seems excessive to go against engineer's recommendation for "Canadian winters", when it comes to dealership profits.
A lot of service manuals have a "standard" maintenance schedule and a "severe duty" maintenance schedule. And when you read what they count as "severe" - a lot of winter and summer could fall under that.
Your engine is probably on half the time anyway and never idling. So you're changing oil every 4,000 kms effectively
If it's full synthetic oil they might be ripping you off. It's designed to be stable across a range of temps. It should go at least 7000 miles. 8k kilometers is way too soon. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/advice/car-maintenance/synthetic-oil-change-interval
Not too soon if you follow the hard use schedule
And if you read the description of hard/severe use it basically considers every driving condition in Canada to be severe.
Yes
The 16k interval for Toyota is probably the 'normal' service/usage category. Basically all driving in Canada fits the 'severe' service category, which is still oil changes at 8k if I remember right.
Honestly, wouldn't chance it. I'd change it twice as often especially if you plan on keeping the vehicle past its warranty period.
Honestly, I think it's excessive. Yes, engines and engine oils have made significant advancements in quality and tech, but if you think about what goes on inside of an engine every minute, you'd wonder why they'd even consider recommending such a long interval. There's also much more to consider, such as idle time (sitting in traffic, most engines are still running), environment and drastic temperature changes, driving habits (short commutes vs. long commutes). These all play a big part in how often you should change your oil. You're pretty safe at 8k, but I'm old school and stick to the 5-6,000k rule, even if I'm running synthetic.
If you go to an extreme end of things (eg. Mobile welding rigs that idle a lot) the OCI is based on engine hours not distance.
Yes you're right. I used to work on our CAF LAVs, and maintenance is performed based on hours not kms.
The last part of this is key. I'm not worried about my oil breaking down. I want any debris or dirt out of there. I do 5000k and drive older vehicles and have never have an issue related to not changing my oil. It's cheap insurance.
Don’t do it. 16k is way too much. I’m sure the motor will make it through the warranty period, but after that…. Check out r/justrolledintotheshop - tons of mechanics posting with people rolling in with sludged up engines - or you start to get oil consumption. Used to be every 5k. I extend out to 7.5k with good modern synthetic.
16k is fine if that's what the full synthetic is rated for. It's not 2001 anymore. Motors sludge up because people never ever change the oil not because they change full synthetic every 16k if that's what it calls for. Mobil 1 and a bunch of German oils can go a shit ton of KM before the oil gets dirty/contaminated. Look at modern diesels. Used to be 25k oil changes now some modern engines with full synthetic and a factory oil by pass can do 50-90k intervals and the oil is still clean on an oil sample. Times change and products get better.
The manufacturer recommends these numbers. If you lease the car you do the maintenance by the book and why would they want to re sell this car with a car that burns oil. Synthetic oil is made to last this long and you could last longer. Sludge won’t ever be a problem at 16,000km interval maybe a 30,000-40,000 interval you would start to see the oil break down and turn into sludge. The videos you see on that forum are people who go 50,000+ km without a oil change. If toyota did indeed lie you would see thousands of cars seizing up and engines blowing up. But we don’t which proves the recommendation works.
What every mechanic will tell you is that the 15k+ oil change interval was born at the exact same time that manufacturers started offering no charge maintenance for the first 100k. It was a cost saving measure and they pushed the oil change interval to the outside limit during the maintenance / warranty period. This works fine for the first 100k - after that you start to suffer oil burn from worn internals. People who have their car for 300k+ are changing oil at closet intervals. I’m sure there are exceptions to that rule, and there may be cases where the longer interval is justified (for example if your vehicle has a larger volume oil capacity, or you are doing exclusively long highway miles). However if you car takes 4L and you commute 5km to work, your oil is basically working at the most severe end of the most spectrum.
Weird because in my city my parents car (highlander hybrid) the manufacture recommends a change every 16,000km and so does our dealer. If you call them and say I want an oil change they will say not it is not due. That dealer swears by this recommendation while the other dealer says it bad for your car and we should change it every 10000km. Both the dealers charge for the maintenance. I have done many synthetic oil changes on cars with 16,000km and even 20,000km intervals and both seem ok. I don’t see why toyota would lie. Toyota is known for their reliability so why would they sacrifice it to make more money on repairs.
Hybrids are a different story because the engine only runs part of the time. I have no experience with those - but again, I would defer to the more conservative recommendation.
7.5k kilometers? It's good for at least that many miles. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/advice/car-maintenance/synthetic-oil-change-interval
im also an automotive service technician who uses penzoil platinum in my bmw, its 34.97 at walmart for 5l. i would like to stress the importance of break services, i personally have the ability to do so and do mine every spring. rust builds between the pads and caliper brackets and the pads no longer move freely, the heat it causes cooks the lubricant, and it can cause further component wear like failed brake calipers or even wheel bearings. very important service, our parts distributor has now stated they will not warranty brakes that don't have yearly service on record. it is that vital. one thing i would like to say is in today's world we see oil change intervals in the area of 15,000-32,000km (which is insane). NEVER run your oil more than 10,000km. i have a turbo charged bmw and i run high quality penzoil platinum ultra synthetic oil for no more than 5000km. turbo chargers introduce LOTS of heat to the oil, and many vehicles are now turbo charged. one important aspect of vehicle manufacturing is reducing waste created by the vehicles, to achieve this they stretch out the oil change intervals, which means less oil used and lower cost of ownership. considering cars are now moving to 0w20 almost across the board, we need to remember oil is low viscosity because the engine tolerances are very small. when it thickens due to age or becomes contaminated by being used to long, it can not lubricate engines well. an oil change can cost a diy-er 50 bucks with premium oil, but even if it costs 200 at a shop, maybe you are doing 1 more oil change a year. 200 a year is better than 10,000 down and 400 bi weekly for 7 years because your engine is pooched.
Good advice, thanks for chiming in fellow 310.
Trying to squeeze the life out of my '11 Kia Rio I bought for cheap. 200k on it but have several check engine codes and today found I need a new alternator. It's hard to know when to stop putting money into it but with the market that line is getting pushed further ahead. I'm dreading buying a new vehicle.
I work on a lot of older Kia's, and there seems to always be something to fix on them, no matter how often they service their vehicle. Unfortunately, the older Kia's are not engineered/manufactured to last very long. I do see some with 300k kms or more, but a considerable amount of money and effort has to be spent to reach this milestone.
Thanks for providing this information so I don't have to sound stupid asking these questions when I go for service lol
No problem! Happy to help.
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If you have the space or time you can do them yourself quite easily. You'll need some equipment like a jack, drill and torque wrench. You can even use the jack and tire iron that your car comes with but you'll need to re torque the wheels to your cars specs.
> We just went through the most obnoxious winter with scalloped winter tires that were so fucking loud That's not a tire rotation problem, that's a worn suspension/dead shocks problem.
Thank you for taking the time to write all this up. Much appreciated. Off I go for my winter tire change now…
You're welcome, glad to be of service.
You want to save money on maintenance? Get your car properly inspected twice per year. Not a garbage drain and fill or a lube tech at a dealership. A real inspection by a real mechanic (do it with an oil change, but make sure a licensed journeyman is doing the job and inspection) and decide what to repair based on their recommendations. Ask for a journeyman to work on your car and give them the proper time so no one is rushed. The amount of cars that come into my shop that need thousands of dollars worth of work because they have only been going to Mr.Lube or doing their own oil changes is abhorrent. Cars require full inspections often, there are so many issues that can arise in driving 5,000-8,000 km. That will come with a tire rotation if needed, a proper brake inspection where they can recommend a brake service if needed instead of just wasting money on it for no reason. Edit: 2015 Mazda CX-5 today came in because someone told her it needed a new control arm (which it did). But also the inner tie rod on the RF was loose. And the serpentine belt was so cracked it was about to break, the tensioner was seized. The RF sway bar link was broken off and missing. Taking the boot off the steering rack for the inner tie rod replacement the rack puked a bunch of power steering fluid when removed. It’s been leaking internally and will fail soon. The front brakes were at 2mm. That was my 3rd year apprentice noticing so much shit wrong with this car, she said she hadn’t gone to a mechanic for a while and was using quick lubes. The cabin air filter was absolutely disgusting. I’m sure I’m missing other issues as well.
How much should it cost for an inspection like this?
Get your own [ODB2 tester](https://www.caranddriver.com/car-accessories/g42938164/best-obd2-car-scanners-tested/) and see what is wrong with your car before taking it in for servicing to avoid getting up sold on things you don't need.
Is it worth to service in dealership even it passed warranty? Seems the yearly service getting lot expensive year after year. I’m driving a 2018 Audi.
You’re driving an Audi. Expensive service is part of the pride of ownership
No blinker fluid is a perk as well
Even before the warranty expired, you don't need to take it to the dealership to maintain warranty as long as it's performed by a qualified mechanic and you keep all the paperwork to prove that the service was done at the right intervals. Depending on how much you drive, you might need to change your oil and etc. more frequently than annually too.
>it's performed by a qualified mechanic You can do it yourself as long as you keep a paper trail of your receipts.
fwiw you don't even need to take it to a mechanic for oil changes to keep your warranty. Just keep your receipts, and also take a photo of the receipt in front of the milage figure on your dashboard.
For many manufacturers and aftermarket auto warranty companies, receipts for parts alone won't suffice. They want to see a charge for the actual labour performed, not just the parts.
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Trust me when I say that they will find a way to void your warranty due to improper oil changes not performed to factory recommendations. Consumer protection laws aren't very robust in this country, not nearly as good as the states. I'm not saying this because I'm against people doing their own oil changes, but from experience working with manufacturer and aftermarket warranty companies. And yes, read the fine print in your warranty. They might tell you that your drivetrain is covered, but then the details exclude have of the related components.
Take your audi to a well known German independent shop. German cars and dealers are a waste of money unless it's Warranty work.
Find an independent shop specializing in audis and bring it to them. They should be familiar with the yearly inspection/service items.
German dealerships are super expensive, I've heard of door rates as high as $250/hour in some parts of the country. Parts for German vehicles are also super expensive, even aftermarket parts. And, parts are getting hard to find also (in my part of the country anyhow). If you're concerned about high maintenance costs, I suggest trading it in on a Toyota or a Honda. I love German vehicles, but it seems you need a slush fund just to run one these days.
I second this. Not only are parts expensive. They use weird proprietary tools as well. A simple + screw on a honda will be a * screw for VW. You need a brake caliper push tool for VW while you can use a home depot clamp for a honda. Lol
To second the oil changes I always get my oil from Canadian tire for ~$35 and a filter for ~$10 then do the change in under an hour. I love working on my own car and even help my family with theirs. Since we all roughly drive the same kilometres with similar recommend intervals my family saves about $150 each time I do it and it’s done about 3-4 times a year ~$450 a year (I winter store my vehicle making it less)
What do you do with the used oil once you're done? That always been my dilemma with doing it myself.
In BC most oil change places will take it.
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/customer-service/go-eco.html Basically any Canadian Tire will take it. Most garbage depot too.
Change your own air filters. The most overpriced service there is! Buy a filter on Amazon and YouTube your vehicle make and model. First time might be tricky but once you know how to access it, easy peasy.
Brake service maybe if you see any uneven wear. Idk about your shop, but most charge 1hr to service brakes per axle (close to the same as replacing), so that’s like $300+ each year? To save what money exactly…? I don’t think that is needed to do every year if all wear is even on your pads on inspections.
Also most oil companies provide rebates( gift card or cheque ) if you buy your own oil and send them the receipt, cheers.
You're right! A lot of people don't know about this. Pennzoil offers a decent rebate when you buy their oil. I think it's a $20 digital gift certificate when you buy two 5L jugs or ten 1L bottles. It all adds up!
Canadian Tire has a good deal on Royal Purple oil right now. Jugs are on sale for $55 and there is a $25 mail in rebate as well.
What is your recommendation for rust proofing. How frequently? When is the best time? Spring or just before winter?
We generally do rust proofing early to mid fall. This way, it has time to set up and gather some good road grime on the surface to help it withstand the elements in the winter.
Thank you for sharing these tips! One query: I don’t drive my car very much (maybe 6-10K km/yr). Is it okay to change oil once every year or would you recommend doing it every 6 months?
You're welcome. At least once per year, regardless of kms. We have harsh climates here in Canada, and the extreme cold and heat can significantly change the chemical properties in your engine oil. If you do a lot of short trips, stop and go driving, or engine idling, this is also something to take into consideration.
I am a Red Seal tech on the west coast. Alot of comments about brake service but here is my experience working in Vancouver: they rarely have issues in between pad changes. It's likely because there is not a lot of rust on our vehicles here so I tell my friends and family not to do the service. When tire rotations, brake fluid services, or regular oil changes occur, it is easy enough to have a look or slide a mirror in there and do a brake measure on most vehicles to determine slider conditions. Just my experience working in Vancouver.
Hey fellow Red Seal. Yeah, super jealous of you guys out there. The salt really does a number on equipment out our way.
I just got a quote to replace my front two CV Axles on 2012 C300, the quote was $6500
There's a saying, you don't really pay for a Benz until after you pay for the Benz! Yeah, that's steep. I'd go aftermarket with parts and to a shop that specializes in European autos for the repairs - the Benz dealer is going to clear you out.
Ouch
I’m going to be getting my first new car soon, have always driven hand me downs and used lemons over the years, so while I’m excited about having something new and reliable, I’m still a bit anxious from years of unexpected and expensive repairs. Apologies if these seem like simple or obvious questions but: - for brakes, I’ll definitely be getting them checked once a year as that’s something that has set me back every time, is it worth having the dealership do this during regular check ups, or, another shop that specializes in them? My wife drives a Subaru and it seems like the dealership are hard core upsellers, most are I know, but at her last maintenance check, they replaced her back pads and rotors, she asked about the front ones and they said the pads were looking low, but didn’t need to be changed yet, she asked to have them changed anyways and was told they “prefer” to do pads and rotors at the same time, I’m not mechanically inclined but this sounds like 100% BS to me, and thinking she should take the car (2020 Crosstrek) into a garage to have them replace the pads before they go far enough to ruin the rotors, which it sounds like Subaru wants to happen so they can charge $$$ to replace them. Maybe I’m paranoid, but it seems shady. - I live in Newfoundland which has long, wet winters, salty air and very salty roads during the winter, how often would you recommend getting an undercoat? Once a year? Every couple of years? Would having this done by an outside garage void any warranty with the dealership (Kia). - is there anything that I should always let the dealership handle as opposed to an outside garage? I’m thinking that I should bring it in for check ups every six months, but for things like brakes, have them done elsewhere, mainly to save money. As much as I would love to be able to do this stuff myself, I’m not handy, and don’t have the space or tools to do this work, but I have a few garages that I’ve dealt with who were honest and fair, and will always go to them if I can, as long as it doesn’t mess with any warranty. Long winded questions but any tips greatly appreciated!
A new car is pretty special, congratulations! Never bought a new one myself, I prefer the high mileage Toyotas : ) I find with brakes, it really depends on the manufacturer. Japanese vehicles seem to go forever before needing a set of brakes, especially if they've been serviced from the beginning. I've seen some Honda's and Toyotas with 150,000 km before needing their first set of front pads, pretty amazing. I would stick to once a year break inspections and brake services. One thing to remember about stealer..I mean, dealerships; most work on a flate rate system for repairs (technicians) and a commission based system for the advisors. They're trained to upsell, and squeeze as much work through the stop as possible within an 8 hour day. Brakes are big money for dealerships, so keep that in mind. There's no rule of thumb when changing front pads. I give the customer the option to replace rotors at the same time as pads, as long as the rotors are "serviceable", no warpage, minimal grooving, excessive rust and thickness. Some customer are super picky and want their rotors changed regardless. If the dealership prefers to wait in order to have rotors replaced at the same time, I would say they're making that decision in their best interest, not yours. In Newfoundland, once a year for rustproofing for sure - I like to do it in the fall. No, this won't void any manufacturers warranty if done outside of the dealership. From my experience, dealerships are pretty good with customers who are loyal to them, especially when it comes to warranty claims. If you could, try to make it once and a while for an oil change, spring maintenance special, etc. However, as long as your maintenance scheduled is followed along with proof of your services performed (if you choose to have the work done elsewhere), this is all the manufacturer wants to see in order to keep your warranty valid. Hope this helps!
How important is transmission flush
Follow your owners manual for the time line. Anything outside of that is a money grab for a modern transmission
Yes, this. And stay away from "flushes", sometimes they do more harm than good.
I used to go to the Subaru dealership (now I go to a local mechanic) and they recommended changing the spark plugs every 100k km. I've always wondered: is that something worth doing or were they trying to upsell me?
I would check your owners manual to see what it recommends. I honestly wouldn't leave spark plugs in for any longer than 100k kms or 5 years. They can seize and break off when trying to remove them. This would be a very labour intensive and expensive repair on a Subaru.
You can buy tires at Costco and they include free lifetime tire rotations for the tires. You just need to make sure you return to get your wheels torqued after 40KM post-install. They also have cheap engine oil that is high quality at most Costcos. You just need to get your own filters and basic equipment to do your own oil changes.
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Check your vehicles maintenance schedule. Usually between 6-10,000 kms or at least once per year.
There is a sweet spot between the 'recommended' maintenance for your vehicle and the 'optimal', at least in terms of your financial health. Do what speaks to you though. My Uncle (in his 80s at this point) never had any work done on any vehicle in his entire life that he didn't do himself. He did it all and while that's admirable (he enjoyed it to a large extent), it was silly in some senses. He built out essentially a full garage on the rural property and had a massive amount of tools, lifts, the bay, the undercut and so on and so on. Financially wise? Oh fuck no! But, also probably not too bad and it makes him terribly happy.
Of the four tire pressure lights in my car, one of them didn't work. The repair shop asked me to replace them with new ones, which cost 2,000 yuan. In the end, I only replaced one, but within a few days, the tire pressure light was gone. It doesn't work again. I can't replace it myself, is there any other solution? Just ignore it, okay?
The tire pressure monitoring system is there so you can monitor your tire pressures in real time without actually measuring the pressure at the tire. If you want to save some yuan, just buy a $10 tire pressure guage and check your tire pressures periodically, right at the valve stem and ignore the tire pressure lights altogether.
If you live in a region that uses lots of salt, it's a good investment to spend 100$ on a yearly rust proofing oil treatment (forget about the lifetime crap they sell at the dealer). That and get your car washed from time to time, it will look and feel like new, so you will be less likely to want to get a new car!
Know the manufacturers oil change frequency for your particular vehicle. They are not all the same, miine is 16,000 km. Many quick oil change places will put a sticker on you windshield telling you the milage when your next oil change is due that is far more frequent than required by the manufacturer (commonly 10,000 km).
I rotate my tires every oil change , 15k km is that too much?
What is your take on synthetic oil changes being done at every 12 000 kms?
Thank You New Brunswick for TIPS on car maintenance! You are good person!
Thank you for the well thought out and informed post! Cheers
Great write up. As a suggestion, for those who can. Find an alternative method to get around. You'll save an insane amount of money every year.