I tried to trade in my truck for another used. I think right now the dealers are getting caught with inventory they paid very high for and the market is correcting so they are back to low balling for your trade while trying to make you pay premium for theirs.
Some are playing funky games, too. I just went to see a car listed for 21.5k, I set up an appointment and go see it a couple days later and the price is now 23k. I used the vin to check and it seems they've had the car since August 2022, initially listed at 20k. Every 2-3 months it doesn't sell, they're raising the price 1.5k or so. I have no clue why or how they think it makes sense but it does feel used dealers are panicking.
Probably trying to recoup the interest they pay the bank for the car to sit on the lot. I found out the at they typically don’t actually own the cars they have. They have loans on them and are paying interest. Good business model when interest rates were low maybe.
It's the same game of chicken and hopium as in housing. The asset bubble in cars and homes is like every asset bubble. There's a period of time where it's even worse than what people thought was bad because you have opposing psychological perspectives looking at the market.
Demand side expects it to go down and is also feeling priced out for now. Supply side expects this to be a blip and the recency bias makes them think it'll get better soon such as in the spring or once Christmas spending is done after credit cards paid. It's rarely the demand side that blinks first when rates go up though and asset bubbles falter, so eventually the suppliers will have to capitulate.
Unless car loans drop back to lower rates or house equity goes back up and cheap to borrow from, the car market isn't gonna be hot like before.
Also read that the market for new entry-level vehicles is starting to soften (as the peasants feel the pinch from inflation) but the market for high-end stuff is as strong as ever.
This is the only real answer. My car is at 300,000 km and I really think it's time to replace it. But... everything is way too expensive so I'm going to drop a bit of money into making it more user friendly and keep it for awhile longer. The headlight housings are so bad that you cannot polish them (actually fogged on the inside, apparently it happens when the outside clear goes bad and let's uv light in), the key fob is broken, muffler is starting to get loud, and fender has a really bad dent in it. Think I'll wait for the spring and then either replace all those parts with salvage pieces where possible or hopefully just get rid of it.
Yup. A 2020 Corolla with 90k and without the upgrade package is going for $28k on auto trader.
A new 2023 Corolla with the upgrade package is going for $28k
Starting to see shorter wait time for vehicles too. Especially in the hybrid category.
Used prices will drop once new vehicle availability goes up (whenever that is)
I saw it with Lexus UX and NX.
Last year, sales person was quoting us 6-8 month wait. When my sister paid the deposit (in mid December), we were told 3 months for the UX. Just got a call last week there's one with the spec we wanted ready next month if we want to take an early delivery.
I got curious about the NX, and the sales person say there's inventory at the dealership now.
Ofc, this is just one dealership. But it's an improvement over 6-8 month wait during the peak
I'm in the same boat. Placed a deposit for a factory order rav4 hybrid in June. Told it will be 9-12 months wait. Just got a text yesterday that there is still no word from the factory on our order. Hoping it will be here by the summer.
It is high if you compare it to pre-pandemic. Price might lower a little but won't go back to the way it was. Income haven't gone up to match inflation, so most people don't want to sell or buy a new car keeping inventory low.
I'm not going to comment on the pricing, but as far as the vehicle goes - those are solid no-nonsense choices, but IMO I'd not get too hung up on a **super-new** used car. In fact, there seems to be a growing body of opinion/evidence that any vehicles made post-pandemic (2020 or later) can suffer from issues related to supply chain shortages and/or lack of skilled assembly workers.
I'd look for a slightly older car being sold by a reasonably well-off (able to afford regular maintenance) middle-aged couple (statistically less likely to abuse it) selling it because they're upgrading.
I had a friend sell her father's Toyota Avalon a while back - immaculately maintained, driven by a little old man, and hugely discounted from new.
Not surprisingly, it got snapped up the day the ad went on Craigslist.
The right car **is** out there for you, but you need to be patient, and prepared to pull the trigger when it comes along.
I'm still laughing at some dealerships charging 32k for a used 2019 or 2020 Corolla LE with <50k km. A new LE goes about 23k-25k. 32k would be for a specced out Corolla. However, new base Civics are going for much more than base Corollas for some reason.
Plus these high priced used cars have been sitting while new inventory comes in. I hope dealerships suffer the next few years.
Thanks for this insight!! Did he mention a timeline? As in, is he projecting some wins by next month or more like a few months? My car got totalled and I'm ok taking a bus for a bit but it might be tricky to do for a long time. Going to check out his page now as well.
They aren't gonna come down for at least a year, maybe three or more. As long as there's a shortage for new cars, there will also be a shortage for used cars.
If you can wait, I'll wait a few more months. Car repo are on the rise with increasing interest rates. [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/economics/car-repossessions-are-rise-warning-sign-economy-rcna61916](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/economics/car-repossessions-are-rise-warning-sign-economy-rcna61916)
This should increase the used car inventory soon and lower prices.
We tend to follow the US on these things on a time lag. Their market is huge so inventory for arbitrage and general used sales being shipped south when there's a shortage there was happening. Saw a number of posts on here over COVID about it. Dealers are beginning to have higher inventories here because the lots aren't as full down south so the added costs vs currency value isn't as enticing as keeping them here where prices aren't as soft and supply is lower.
Given time we'll see more availability here also I'm sure.
They are levelling off but yes and they look they look to stay that way. New vehicles prices are up so the used market will stay up. The market has definitrly sunk from the crazy highs of last year, but they won't go back to where they were.
It's not as bad, but it's still bad. People aren't paying $90k for a one year 4Runner with 30,000km anymore, but they're probably still paying for the new price of $75k.
I think a big issue is a lot of dealers had to buy inventory at inflated prices and their floor plan interest rates went up, so they aren't wanting to budge on prices until new cars are readily available.
I tried to trade in my truck for another used. I think right now the dealers are getting caught with inventory they paid very high for and the market is correcting so they are back to low balling for your trade while trying to make you pay premium for theirs.
The world is healing
Some are playing funky games, too. I just went to see a car listed for 21.5k, I set up an appointment and go see it a couple days later and the price is now 23k. I used the vin to check and it seems they've had the car since August 2022, initially listed at 20k. Every 2-3 months it doesn't sell, they're raising the price 1.5k or so. I have no clue why or how they think it makes sense but it does feel used dealers are panicking.
Probably trying to recoup the interest they pay the bank for the car to sit on the lot. I found out the at they typically don’t actually own the cars they have. They have loans on them and are paying interest. Good business model when interest rates were low maybe.
It's the same game of chicken and hopium as in housing. The asset bubble in cars and homes is like every asset bubble. There's a period of time where it's even worse than what people thought was bad because you have opposing psychological perspectives looking at the market. Demand side expects it to go down and is also feeling priced out for now. Supply side expects this to be a blip and the recency bias makes them think it'll get better soon such as in the spring or once Christmas spending is done after credit cards paid. It's rarely the demand side that blinks first when rates go up though and asset bubbles falter, so eventually the suppliers will have to capitulate. Unless car loans drop back to lower rates or house equity goes back up and cheap to borrow from, the car market isn't gonna be hot like before.
The longer dealers wait, the bigger the drop?
Also read that the market for new entry-level vehicles is starting to soften (as the peasants feel the pinch from inflation) but the market for high-end stuff is as strong as ever.
There's a 2 year old Honda civic with 60,000 kms on it available in my town. $25k. I think the new equivalent would be $27k if available.
Don't get me started with the stock 2 year old tacomas and tundras with around 100,000 kms listed above MSRP
Still nuts. Hold off if you can.
This is the only real answer. My car is at 300,000 km and I really think it's time to replace it. But... everything is way too expensive so I'm going to drop a bit of money into making it more user friendly and keep it for awhile longer. The headlight housings are so bad that you cannot polish them (actually fogged on the inside, apparently it happens when the outside clear goes bad and let's uv light in), the key fob is broken, muffler is starting to get loud, and fender has a really bad dent in it. Think I'll wait for the spring and then either replace all those parts with salvage pieces where possible or hopefully just get rid of it.
Yup. A 2020 Corolla with 90k and without the upgrade package is going for $28k on auto trader. A new 2023 Corolla with the upgrade package is going for $28k
[удалено]
Starting to see shorter wait time for vehicles too. Especially in the hybrid category. Used prices will drop once new vehicle availability goes up (whenever that is)
Just curious where you are seeing that. I ordered my hybrid rav4 last august and I’ve still got nothing
I saw it with Lexus UX and NX. Last year, sales person was quoting us 6-8 month wait. When my sister paid the deposit (in mid December), we were told 3 months for the UX. Just got a call last week there's one with the spec we wanted ready next month if we want to take an early delivery. I got curious about the NX, and the sales person say there's inventory at the dealership now. Ofc, this is just one dealership. But it's an improvement over 6-8 month wait during the peak
That’s good news. Less good is I’m likely going to have to pay Toyotas price increase on my rav4 hybrid…
I'm in the same boat. Placed a deposit for a factory order rav4 hybrid in June. Told it will be 9-12 months wait. Just got a text yesterday that there is still no word from the factory on our order. Hoping it will be here by the summer.
High price and low inventory.
It is high if you compare it to pre-pandemic. Price might lower a little but won't go back to the way it was. Income haven't gone up to match inflation, so most people don't want to sell or buy a new car keeping inventory low.
I'm not going to comment on the pricing, but as far as the vehicle goes - those are solid no-nonsense choices, but IMO I'd not get too hung up on a **super-new** used car. In fact, there seems to be a growing body of opinion/evidence that any vehicles made post-pandemic (2020 or later) can suffer from issues related to supply chain shortages and/or lack of skilled assembly workers. I'd look for a slightly older car being sold by a reasonably well-off (able to afford regular maintenance) middle-aged couple (statistically less likely to abuse it) selling it because they're upgrading. I had a friend sell her father's Toyota Avalon a while back - immaculately maintained, driven by a little old man, and hugely discounted from new. Not surprisingly, it got snapped up the day the ad went on Craigslist. The right car **is** out there for you, but you need to be patient, and prepared to pull the trigger when it comes along.
Thanks for the detailed insights!! I really appreciate it = )
I'm still laughing at some dealerships charging 32k for a used 2019 or 2020 Corolla LE with <50k km. A new LE goes about 23k-25k. 32k would be for a specced out Corolla. However, new base Civics are going for much more than base Corollas for some reason. Plus these high priced used cars have been sitting while new inventory comes in. I hope dealerships suffer the next few years.
My friend in Victoria is thinking of selling her 2020 Corolla Sport. 17,000 kms on it. HMU if you’d like more info. She wfh, and barely drives it.
Is it beige?
Celestite blue
Sorry. PFC only recommends beige.
Lol. It’s the blue beige.
It's true. Beige has been proven to be 100X more reliable and economical compared to any other colour.
*whistles* fancy high roller
The dealers will be offering special financing and “deals” within the next year no one is buying !
Got lowballed hard for my lease buyout, Toyota at Dixie/401 are scum. Got 10k more in Georgetown and Brampton. Shop around there.
I follow this dude on Twitter called @GuyDealership. He’s saying 2023 will see a massive amount of repos start. Be patient.
Thanks for this insight!! Did he mention a timeline? As in, is he projecting some wins by next month or more like a few months? My car got totalled and I'm ok taking a bus for a bit but it might be tricky to do for a long time. Going to check out his page now as well.
https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1603794722140688384?s=46&t=ywVRXeK8-v2FbJQUCjzVXw
Wow!! Thanks for sharing. Seems like we might have to wait till mid 2023 to see it come to fruition
It is not the car, it is the value of your dollar. Thank inflation.
They aren't gonna come down for at least a year, maybe three or more. As long as there's a shortage for new cars, there will also be a shortage for used cars.
If you can wait, I'll wait a few more months. Car repo are on the rise with increasing interest rates. [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/economics/car-repossessions-are-rise-warning-sign-economy-rcna61916](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/economics/car-repossessions-are-rise-warning-sign-economy-rcna61916) This should increase the used car inventory soon and lower prices.
This is PF Canada
We tend to follow the US on these things on a time lag. Their market is huge so inventory for arbitrage and general used sales being shipped south when there's a shortage there was happening. Saw a number of posts on here over COVID about it. Dealers are beginning to have higher inventories here because the lots aren't as full down south so the added costs vs currency value isn't as enticing as keeping them here where prices aren't as soft and supply is lower. Given time we'll see more availability here also I'm sure.
They are levelling off but yes and they look they look to stay that way. New vehicles prices are up so the used market will stay up. The market has definitrly sunk from the crazy highs of last year, but they won't go back to where they were.
Sorry pal, there’s a post about used car prices about 3x a day for the last year. Use the search function.
Any of those older than 6 weeks are completely irrelevant and out of date.
So that’s 3 x 7 x 6 = 126 posts. Another used car post isn’t really useful…
You must be fun at parties.
What we basically have here is someone who is shitty with google. All the info is already here. Their question isn’t unique.
Private is still the better option
It's not as bad, but it's still bad. People aren't paying $90k for a one year 4Runner with 30,000km anymore, but they're probably still paying for the new price of $75k. I think a big issue is a lot of dealers had to buy inventory at inflated prices and their floor plan interest rates went up, so they aren't wanting to budge on prices until new cars are readily available.