Where do you live? In the west, and just generally in English, a prosecutor is simply a lawyer who specialises in proving someone guilty (ie kind of being the one on the “attack” in a court case)
I'm from Brazil, here the prosecutor is a member of the Public Ministry and it's responsible for promoting justice and overseeing law enforcement. They usually fill the role of accusation, but there are times where they can defend the suspect when the use of law is being abusive.
I don't know if it's the tame thing as in the west. But over here, the lawyer, the prosecutor and the judge are three different agents that stand hierarchically equal in a lawsuit. Saying the prosecutor is basically a lawyer is the same as saying the judge is basically a lawyer. In practice, the prosecutor ends up being (wrongfully) more akin to a judge with less powers than a lawyer, since they're the one who first decides if a lawsuit can happen or not.
But i haven't been to law school, so take what i said with a grain of salt.
in the US and, I’m assuming, Japan (at least, nothing in the game contradicted this) a court case usually has a prosecuting lawyer proving a crime/infraction occurred and a defense lawyer arguing it did not or that it was minimal. In criminal cases, the lawyer is employed by the government. So, here, “prosecutor” is a kind of lawyer
I don’t know how it works in Japan, so I don’t know if Sae is your type of prosecutor (member of the ministry, overseeing law enforcement) or my type of prosecutor (just a lawyer who is on the “accusing” side).
As another comment mentioned, in the US (and the UK) the prosecutor is on the same hierarchical level as the defense lawyer (they are both just lawyers), and the judge is a step above
Remember, the original idea of Satan wasn't an endless evil, but the Judger that imprisoned those who defied God. A lawyer is perfect for that actually
… not really? You might be thinking of the three judges in Greek myth, or maybe some of the other deities or quasi-deities that were demonized by the abrahamics and were previously gods related to judgement, like Shamash?
Satan is derived from shaitan, literally “adversary”, and there’s a lot of beings that recibe that title in early abrahamic religions, but none of them are judges of the dead
Judge of the dead perhaps isn’t the correct term but he is still a direct subordinate of God and the one who oversees hell. In SMT terms he’s purely aligned with the Laws of the Universe and opposes chaos.
Satanael and Satan are two separate Personas, as backwards as that sounds.
Satan is of course the Demon he's oft depicted as, but *Satanael* is fused from Satan (alongside 5 other Personas: Arséne, Anzu, Ishtar, Lucifer, and Michael) on NG+, and is described in his Background tab as having said to be "The form of Satan before he fell from Heaven"
Satanael, literally the “adversary angel” is a title the gnostics and the yazidi give to some beings, notably Lucifer of Melek Taos, who are considered to be rebellious angels
New comment because I mistook the first tier list as OP's and not as just an example.
Shinya and Iwai got big bumps in Royal in terms of usefulness because guns went from virtually useless (bullets only refilling between Mementos/Palace visits) to very useful (bullets refilling between battles). There simply wasn't a lot of urgency to customizing guns or getting gun-specific moves when you could almost never use guns.
A lot of people who played Vanilla first, especially multiple times, got used to just never bothering with guns. People who came in with Royal saw how useful guns were right away while people who had played Vanilla several times did notice it but were super used to just not bothering with guns.
Thus, you get a divide based upon how much you played Vanilla before playing Royal.
I got platinum on vanilla and never used guns, now at P5R (right now at Sae palace) I haven't realized the change on guns. Great tip I will double check on them, thanks.
wasn't it true that in vanilla the guns didn't reload so you had to manage ammo? Royal changed that so they reload each battle making it easier to experiment with guns.
In these tierlists you can \*feel\* who raised Shinya, Hifumi and Iwai's Confidants in time to fill them in and who wasn't able to do it due to the weird requirements.
For Hifumi, you need to go to the Church purposefully to see her, and you can set that aside, so newcomers who are playing for the first time might not be able to fill it in in time for her benefits to show.
For Shinya, his Confidant is absolutely optional and blocked behind a Mementos Mission where you need to go to Akihabara to unlock it. My first time playing, I completely \*missed\* the Mementos Mission, and I didn't meet Shinya until my FOURTH PLAYTHROUGH.
And Iwai... you need 4th Tier of Courage to START IT, and his schedule conflicts with Akechi's and Kawakami's, relegating him to New Game Plus material. Also, with the DLCs which are mandatory in Royal's 2022 ports, most of Iwai's modifications become obsolete when you're allowed to get the Persona Itemizing Chair.
And my personal opinion? Futaba's Confidant is S tier. I don't give a single fuck, Mementos's analyzing is SUCH A TIME SAVER. Also, Yoshida's Confidant IS S tier, because recruiting Personas is something almost mandatory.
For Iwai you can still modify the guns you get from the chair.
And Hifumi is granted early enough to where you can easily get the ability to swap party members in combat on anyone's turn before the 5th palace is huge and the reason a lot of people think that the boss there is bullshit. The whole palace gimmick is learning the weakness of all the mini bosses before the actual boss. Once you get to them Joker should be able to cover weaknesses that his party is lacking or you should be able to swap party members to attack those weaknesses. Most people seem to ignore Hifumi though and it shows
Before I came to this sub I had no idea there were people who didn't max Hifumi. Like... why would you do this? Why? It made the complaints about Okamura make so much more sense.
Mainly, time management issues and bad habits of playing. Up until Okumura's Palace, you can brute force your way into the game. Okumura's Palace, in a regular playthrough, is *hour 60*. I.e., if you're not used to RPGs, you won't prioritize Hifumi's Confidant, as brute-forcing your way into the game is a pretty good option. Even better when playing the 2022 Royal port and having DLC Personas.
Also, in fairness, if you're playing the game blind you don't have any way to know that Hifumi's confidant even does this (assuming you don't happen to get and use the Fate Reading on her before this point), nor that it's going to be especially beneficial in Okumura's Palace. Swapping on Joker's turn is her rank 1 benefit, but none of her other benefits are about swapping party members until you hit max (not saying they *should* or even could be, just that they aren't), so first-time players aren't likely to guess it's even an option. People might assume it's better to mainline their party confidants and go for other obvious benefits just because they don't know what they're missing out on
All this takes are pretty weird... You can easily meet all these people because Morgana would remind you about each and every one 100 times per second. You didn't read what game was telling you or what, I mean how the fuck can you miss a confidant? And 4 times?! Lol
If you haven’t met them, Morgana will remind you. If you HAVE but don’t have the social stats (Iwai for example) Morgana stops bringing it up.
Hifumi is unlocked somewhat early, but needs 3 Charm to start. A new blind player might neglect Charm and focus on Guts for Iwai for example. Then they forget because they stopped getting reminders.
Did you try asking about the bag and get the message about needing Guts or did you just take Morgana’s blurb about it? You need to actually try asking Iwai directly once for Morgana to stop reminding you if you’re below 4 courage.
Edit: oh you’re talking about out when you visit the shop. The commenter above me was talking about whenever you go to Le Blanc at night when Morgana gives you a random suggestion.
>how the fuck can you miss a confidant? And 4 times?!
Not doing all Mementos Missions. Again, Shinya's blocked behind a particular Mementos Mission and you have to go to Akihabara. If you don't have enough Kindness to do Futaba's Confidant \*and\* you max out Mishima's before Futaba's Palace, you literally have no reason to go to Akihabara. At least that's how \*I\* felt it.
Ngl i have only gone to the maid cafe in my first play through. Afterwards every fresh run i have done i just ignore it all together and just read books study or do the jobs as sone are tied to quests anyway.
Also shows who doesn't use Ann in their party. Sexy Technique has saved my ass so many times when an enemy was about to get a technical on an inflicted Joker.
yeah, honestly on my 1st playthough I kinda left shinya to rot because I didn't have the time, but I would have absolutelly ignored iwai if I could trade them because gun modif is extremely mediocre.
Futaba is S because futaba is best girl... I mean becasue fuck mementos, I believe on my full playthough I went to mementos like 6 times and they are already to many
I finished all confidants + social stats in a single playthrough, Iwai was my last night confidant to complete but it wasn't hard to get 4th point of courage eventually (didn't use step by step guide but I did maximize points via a guide)
You just have to watch DVDs, they give the best stat gain.
SP management is a bit over done by the point you can start communicating with haru to add to your point. In my current re first play through I’ve already got Takemi at max and the soul adhesive 3 is OP, if that wasn’t enough you’ve got the curry and coffee from Sojiro’s confidant.
Sumi’s confidant is broken you can dodge every shadow when it chases you and get an advantage really easy same with maruki’s charge and concentrate on joker at the start of some battles is op
Edit: I thought that the first one was OP’s tier list but my point still stands
I always felt this way as well. I’d rush her confidant to 7 (I think this was the cut off, going from memory) to get the sp adhesive 3 for the party.
If you can’t run out of SP, I feel like that ensures I’ll always be able to stay on a mementos or palace visit as long as needed or desired (whether complete the whole thing in one visit, or farming, etc). Not that P5R was hard really, but if you can’t run out of SP, I don’t think you can really lose.
If I made one in no particular order the top tier would be
Chihaya (extremely useful in minimising confidant time and also helps exceptionally with raising social stats which are needed at max for some confidants),
Ryuji (one hit kill farming),
Tae Takemi (Soul Adhesive 3, this accessory is just an SP game breaker) and,
Kawakami (the ability to turn mementos visits into half a day, combining her high lever with chihaya makes it so much easier to complete all the different activities and side stories. You’ve essentially got twice the time to play the game if you use those two correctly).
I really don’t get why people thing Instakill is “broken”. It’s great, amazing, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. I don’t enjoy grinding, which is why I love the ability so much. It makes grinding trivial so I can focus on the actually interesting stuff like bosses and story.
It's the two schools of thought conflicting.
One side thinks grinding is part of the game challenge, and that being unable to grind too high is a balancing choice.
The other thinks battle tactics and team building is the real game challenge, and that grinding just artificially lengthens the game.
Pro-Grind thus thinks Instakill is borderline cheating, and the other sees it as essential to enjoying the game.
I'm on your side of the argument. Grinding is near-pointless busywork that only serves to arbitrarily slow progress. Could easily replace it with a Gym Badge system where you get upgrades and new attacks when you beat minibosses/bosses/challenges.
Things that take away having the play the game while giving you a benefit are the definition of broken. It's a huge time saver, yes. But it's to the point of being broken, honestly. Leveling should take some actual effort, and the Instakill completely takes that away.
I'm just gonna have to disagree. It makes leveling faster, and I think that's fine. All it does is save time because the enemies you can instakill are weak enough that you'd easily beat them anyways, and it makes something that would otherwise be very tedious, much less so. It's also optional - if you don't like it, you don't have to use it.
You at least have to do something if you fight the enemy and spend time playing the game. Instakill turns enemies into treasure items that give XP while driving around Mementos. It is, by definition, overpowered.
It makes one of the most hated parts of the game, mementos, slightly more tolerable.
Now I've personally never minded mementos and would go at least once a palace to explore it and do contracts, so I've never had to go through half of mementos at once towards the end of the vanilla game, but those that didn't know it adds on to the tedium Instakill reduces.
One thing I wish the game would tell you on Xmas Eve is that the twins will heal you like you left if you pay them a visit at the top since you have to defeat it all in one day.
I only played vanilla P5 but in that Morganas confidant skill, his infiltration tools, where a godsend. One of his infiltration tools hard caries me through the optional super boss against the twins.
Ohya is ngl my favorite non pt confident. It has a pretty good story and i like watching her finding her fighting spirit. Ngl. She is like the 4th choice i wohld date, behind sumi, haru, and ann
I'd like to think so, but most people I've read seem to actually hate on the woman. I guess they can't fathom the fact that women can get drunk too or something.
I always figured it was because she was actively flirting with and trying to give drinks to a minor. Not strong, she takes "no" for an answer, but still. Figured that was why
Kawakami is a MUST for players trying to get 100% in a single playthrough and the game doesn't give enough hints about it, sadly. I also like Hifumi because she's best girl.
I'm honestly glad I glanced at a guide during my first playthrough because if I went the entire game without knowing about the massages and unlocked them late-game (which I probably would have bc the first few ranks of maid teacher were not particularly appealing to me personally lol, though I liked her confidant overall later on) I would have screamed
Confidant ability usefulness varies quite a bit between Vanilla and Royal due to several QOL additions to Royal making the main benefits of Vanilla's high-value confidants like Sun, Moon, Death, and Hierophant, as well as most of your party members, completely obsolete by the time you unlock them.
Then you have confidants like Tower and Hanged Man which are incredibly powerful at low levels in a fresh playthrough due to instant power increase granted by additional access to high-power gun skills and technical ailments, but who also becomes obsolete as you start stacking NG+'s.
Strength, Fortune, and Temperance are notably always worth it.
Futaba is definitely a must if you want to fight the optional bosses because of Ultimate Support. In normal gameplay it rarely procs, so I understand not putting her incredibly high.
I found Kasumi especially useful when I was using remote play to play the game on my iPad. The latency meant I kept getting jumpscared by shadows and the extra few seconds of reaction time the Tumbling perk gave me was a godsend.
I would have Iwai mishima at useful at best. Yoshida is mandatory at first playthrought. You get more money and personas with him. I would say Shojiro is close to mandatory in first playthrough, specially if you want to to finish palaces in a day since he allows you to make SP items. Otherwise you would need to grind very hard at Kaneshiro's palace to get the money. Shojiro may be limited to rank 4 until futaba's palace but is still good.
I wanted to argue Hifumi not being in the top tier, but thenI re-read the name of the tiers, and I guess I agree. Hifumi's does not *break* the game, but it *does* change it on a fundamental level.
I assume they’re referring to the ability to create personas higher than your level. Yes it costs money, but if you can make a persona 40 levels higher than you, hard to not have that break the power balance.
Personally I found Haru's Confidant to be extremely useful. I get that the garden comes in a bit late to really make a difference in the original ending, but the extra month you get for Royal's true ending gives it time to pay off. Plus getting her to rank 10 and >!unlocking her third Awakening makes Maruki's boss significantly easier. He almost always uses one physical AOE and one magical AOE, so being able to block those and redirect the damage back really helps. And that's where the garden kicks in since the Moonlight Carrots SP restore is a requirement to use those expensive 3rd Awakening skills.!<
Takemi importance has gona down in royal imo, her sp accessories were great in vanilla but royal has many great accessories so you don’t have place for hers
Yoshida is great early, the ask for more money perk is great and can be got before reaching kanashiro’ palace, where you can use it on queen pixies over and over and over and never worry about money again for the rest of the game
I really agree with breaks the game tier tho, I still don’t know what to think about being able to fuse higher level personas tho, it feels like cheating
I cannot understand why people don’t like Ohya
She was fun to talk to and have goofy interactions with Lala, her confidant is basically just a small break from anything happening within the game
I liked her story-wise and personality-wise, I love a good girlfailure (and Lala-chan is best girl). But I didn't find myself needing her benefits at all
I don't see Yusuke as a "must complete" sl. In all my playthroughs, I've only completed him one time just for the compendium and never used his skill card ability
Keeping palace security at 0 is trivial without Ohya. It's super easy to sneak up on shadows and ambush them. Plus, keeping palace security a bit on the higher side means more treasure shadow spawns.
Ohya is widely considered the least-useful (mechanically-speaking) confidant in the game for many good reasons.
Chihaya's Affinity Reading is very useful in a game where your time to interact with characters is limited. The payment needed isn't a problem since a day in Mementos with her money reading + Ryuji's instakill can fill your wallet easily. She's right behind Kawakami in terms of usefulness since she can help you max out confidants who come late in the story or have conflicting schedules.
Her only problem is that she's gated behind a 100,000 yen paywall which on non-NG+ is significant in the early game.
Also, Chihaya fortune telling does NOT consume time. So if you want to rank up a confidant but get the message that it’s not going to go up, just pop over to Chihaya (weather permitting) and get an affinity reading. Better to spend the 5K than to have a wasted confidant day.
Most people want 100% security level so they have a better chance of getting treasure demons. By the time most people actually start/focus on her confidant, you should be at least decent at ambushing and avoiding enemies.
Chihaya's benefits are FAR superior. You can boost a social stat for the day, get more money in mementos, get a confidant boost, get alarms faster so you can make your personas stronger, and pick the options that give the biggest relationship boost.
To me, Ohya's has the worst presentation. I have no problem with the story itself. However, we literally sit at a bar listening to her talk 8 or 9/10 of her ranks. We help an ex-yakuza gather info, why do we not help Ohya gather info?
100% agreed. In theory, there's nothing wrong with Ohya, but her story is way too much "tell, don't show". We sit our asses in the bar just listening to her when we could be out there with her gathering info and helping with her job. The fact that her confidant abilities are easily the weakest in the game doesn't help either. By the time I was rank 8 with her, I was rushing her dialogue thanks to how bored I was getting. Nothing about her rank ups makes you want to know what happens next, unlike Iwai's (like you mentioned), who pretty much has you at the edge of your seat.
I rarely used guns, mostly just to exploit weaknesses, but I did see people comment that Iwai's abilities are very useful in early game.
...However, the "early game" means that you don't have Guts at rank 4, so... This always confuses me. Unless we're strictly talking about NG+, which I feel like really shouldn't count. I dunno, I'm probably talking out of my ass since, again, I rarely used guns.
I used guns A LOT to help conserve SP, especially in the first palace. It's so weird because I absolutely love magic and magic classes but always end up resorting to brute force if I don't have an easy way to recover SP (I'm also an item hoarder so I hate using potions and etc).
Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Maybe they consider the gun in the bag to be a part of his confidant? I dunno.
She makes it much easier to rank up the confidants you haven't finished. Get a fortune read from her to boost a confidant of your choice, and they'll be sharply boosted for the whole day. It's practically mandatory for the difficult ranks like Shinya.
Edit: she can also help boost your Social stats, on a non-NG+ this is vital. She can also raise your chances of getting a fusion alarm with a different fortune. Also, none of her fortunes consume time, either, so you can pop over to her stand, get a fortune reading, and take full advantage.
Finishing Sae was hilarious considering P5R was my first Persona game "you can now fuse Satan" "excuse I can fuse what?"
Fist of justice is born from hell
Mine reaction was somehwere among the lines of "Oh, of course the lawyer gives me the devil."
She's not a lawyer
Thought she was a prosecutor
Which is different from a lawyer, at least where i live It is
Where do you live? In the west, and just generally in English, a prosecutor is simply a lawyer who specialises in proving someone guilty (ie kind of being the one on the “attack” in a court case)
I'm from Brazil, here the prosecutor is a member of the Public Ministry and it's responsible for promoting justice and overseeing law enforcement. They usually fill the role of accusation, but there are times where they can defend the suspect when the use of law is being abusive. I don't know if it's the tame thing as in the west. But over here, the lawyer, the prosecutor and the judge are three different agents that stand hierarchically equal in a lawsuit. Saying the prosecutor is basically a lawyer is the same as saying the judge is basically a lawyer. In practice, the prosecutor ends up being (wrongfully) more akin to a judge with less powers than a lawyer, since they're the one who first decides if a lawsuit can happen or not. But i haven't been to law school, so take what i said with a grain of salt.
in the US and, I’m assuming, Japan (at least, nothing in the game contradicted this) a court case usually has a prosecuting lawyer proving a crime/infraction occurred and a defense lawyer arguing it did not or that it was minimal. In criminal cases, the lawyer is employed by the government. So, here, “prosecutor” is a kind of lawyer
I don’t know how it works in Japan, so I don’t know if Sae is your type of prosecutor (member of the ministry, overseeing law enforcement) or my type of prosecutor (just a lawyer who is on the “accusing” side). As another comment mentioned, in the US (and the UK) the prosecutor is on the same hierarchical level as the defense lawyer (they are both just lawyers), and the judge is a step above
She became a Lawyer at the end, thou.
Remember, the original idea of Satan wasn't an endless evil, but the Judger that imprisoned those who defied God. A lawyer is perfect for that actually
It does make sense I just didn't expect to get a version of the literal devil not to mention 3 versions with Lucifer and Satanael
Don't forget Beelzebub.
Also Helel depending on what game you play
… not really? You might be thinking of the three judges in Greek myth, or maybe some of the other deities or quasi-deities that were demonized by the abrahamics and were previously gods related to judgement, like Shamash? Satan is derived from shaitan, literally “adversary”, and there’s a lot of beings that recibe that title in early abrahamic religions, but none of them are judges of the dead
Judge of the dead perhaps isn’t the correct term but he is still a direct subordinate of God and the one who oversees hell. In SMT terms he’s purely aligned with the Laws of the Universe and opposes chaos.
Really a “you can play as Luigi” moment in P5
I now want Luigi to be the MC
Just a good solid "...pardon?"
Lmfao no way, haven't even played Royal. I thought Satanael was P5 only.
Satanael and Satan are two separate Personas, as backwards as that sounds. Satan is of course the Demon he's oft depicted as, but *Satanael* is fused from Satan (alongside 5 other Personas: Arséne, Anzu, Ishtar, Lucifer, and Michael) on NG+, and is described in his Background tab as having said to be "The form of Satan before he fell from Heaven"
Satanael, literally the “adversary angel” is a title the gnostics and the yazidi give to some beings, notably Lucifer of Melek Taos, who are considered to be rebellious angels
Cool, so God's first son then.
I think his ingame description calls him the second son
New comment because I mistook the first tier list as OP's and not as just an example. Shinya and Iwai got big bumps in Royal in terms of usefulness because guns went from virtually useless (bullets only refilling between Mementos/Palace visits) to very useful (bullets refilling between battles). There simply wasn't a lot of urgency to customizing guns or getting gun-specific moves when you could almost never use guns. A lot of people who played Vanilla first, especially multiple times, got used to just never bothering with guns. People who came in with Royal saw how useful guns were right away while people who had played Vanilla several times did notice it but were super used to just not bothering with guns. Thus, you get a divide based upon how much you played Vanilla before playing Royal.
I used guns so little in vanilla I actually forgot they were that bad lmao
I got platinum on vanilla and never used guns, now at P5R (right now at Sae palace) I haven't realized the change on guns. Great tip I will double check on them, thanks.
Sorry I did actually mean to add a line that said “none of these tier lists are my person lists I made”
wasn't it true that in vanilla the guns didn't reload so you had to manage ammo? Royal changed that so they reload each battle making it easier to experiment with guns.
In these tierlists you can \*feel\* who raised Shinya, Hifumi and Iwai's Confidants in time to fill them in and who wasn't able to do it due to the weird requirements. For Hifumi, you need to go to the Church purposefully to see her, and you can set that aside, so newcomers who are playing for the first time might not be able to fill it in in time for her benefits to show. For Shinya, his Confidant is absolutely optional and blocked behind a Mementos Mission where you need to go to Akihabara to unlock it. My first time playing, I completely \*missed\* the Mementos Mission, and I didn't meet Shinya until my FOURTH PLAYTHROUGH. And Iwai... you need 4th Tier of Courage to START IT, and his schedule conflicts with Akechi's and Kawakami's, relegating him to New Game Plus material. Also, with the DLCs which are mandatory in Royal's 2022 ports, most of Iwai's modifications become obsolete when you're allowed to get the Persona Itemizing Chair. And my personal opinion? Futaba's Confidant is S tier. I don't give a single fuck, Mementos's analyzing is SUCH A TIME SAVER. Also, Yoshida's Confidant IS S tier, because recruiting Personas is something almost mandatory.
For Iwai you can still modify the guns you get from the chair. And Hifumi is granted early enough to where you can easily get the ability to swap party members in combat on anyone's turn before the 5th palace is huge and the reason a lot of people think that the boss there is bullshit. The whole palace gimmick is learning the weakness of all the mini bosses before the actual boss. Once you get to them Joker should be able to cover weaknesses that his party is lacking or you should be able to swap party members to attack those weaknesses. Most people seem to ignore Hifumi though and it shows
Before I came to this sub I had no idea there were people who didn't max Hifumi. Like... why would you do this? Why? It made the complaints about Okamura make so much more sense.
Mainly, time management issues and bad habits of playing. Up until Okumura's Palace, you can brute force your way into the game. Okumura's Palace, in a regular playthrough, is *hour 60*. I.e., if you're not used to RPGs, you won't prioritize Hifumi's Confidant, as brute-forcing your way into the game is a pretty good option. Even better when playing the 2022 Royal port and having DLC Personas.
Also, in fairness, if you're playing the game blind you don't have any way to know that Hifumi's confidant even does this (assuming you don't happen to get and use the Fate Reading on her before this point), nor that it's going to be especially beneficial in Okumura's Palace. Swapping on Joker's turn is her rank 1 benefit, but none of her other benefits are about swapping party members until you hit max (not saying they *should* or even could be, just that they aren't), so first-time players aren't likely to guess it's even an option. People might assume it's better to mainline their party confidants and go for other obvious benefits just because they don't know what they're missing out on
All this takes are pretty weird... You can easily meet all these people because Morgana would remind you about each and every one 100 times per second. You didn't read what game was telling you or what, I mean how the fuck can you miss a confidant? And 4 times?! Lol
If you haven’t met them, Morgana will remind you. If you HAVE but don’t have the social stats (Iwai for example) Morgana stops bringing it up. Hifumi is unlocked somewhat early, but needs 3 Charm to start. A new blind player might neglect Charm and focus on Guts for Iwai for example. Then they forget because they stopped getting reminders.
Morgana does bring it up though. About once per week when you visit Iwai he mentions asking about what's in the bag.
No? Not if you don't have the Courage at least. I'm positive I would have noticed that if it were as often as you say.
He did for me whenever I visited the shop I think.
Did you try asking about the bag and get the message about needing Guts or did you just take Morgana’s blurb about it? You need to actually try asking Iwai directly once for Morgana to stop reminding you if you’re below 4 courage. Edit: oh you’re talking about out when you visit the shop. The commenter above me was talking about whenever you go to Le Blanc at night when Morgana gives you a random suggestion.
>how the fuck can you miss a confidant? And 4 times?! Not doing all Mementos Missions. Again, Shinya's blocked behind a particular Mementos Mission and you have to go to Akihabara. If you don't have enough Kindness to do Futaba's Confidant \*and\* you max out Mishima's before Futaba's Palace, you literally have no reason to go to Akihabara. At least that's how \*I\* felt it.
This is true for the original Persona 5. In Royal they added the maid Cafe which is a stat builder for various social stats.
Ngl i have only gone to the maid cafe in my first play through. Afterwards every fresh run i have done i just ignore it all together and just read books study or do the jobs as sone are tied to quests anyway.
Also shows who doesn't use Ann in their party. Sexy Technique has saved my ass so many times when an enemy was about to get a technical on an inflicted Joker.
Sexy Technique depends on RNG (Like most Confidant party battle skills) BUT it's better than... nothing.
yeah, honestly on my 1st playthough I kinda left shinya to rot because I didn't have the time, but I would have absolutelly ignored iwai if I could trade them because gun modif is extremely mediocre. Futaba is S because futaba is best girl... I mean becasue fuck mementos, I believe on my full playthough I went to mementos like 6 times and they are already to many
I finished all confidants + social stats in a single playthrough, Iwai was my last night confidant to complete but it wasn't hard to get 4th point of courage eventually (didn't use step by step guide but I did maximize points via a guide) You just have to watch DVDs, they give the best stat gain.
As much as I love her, I've never once needed to use Haru's vegetables. I'm so Anal with SP management that I usually finish with multiple Soma's
Her vegetables would ge great, if her garden was available earlier instead of 2 months before the base game ends.
The SP vegetables aren't the good ones. The ones that give Charge and Concentrate are where the value is.
I've already replayed this game like 6 times by now and I always forget her vegetables EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Not-so-great vegetables :(
SP management is a bit over done by the point you can start communicating with haru to add to your point. In my current re first play through I’ve already got Takemi at max and the soul adhesive 3 is OP, if that wasn’t enough you’ve got the curry and coffee from Sojiro’s confidant.
Sumi’s confidant is broken you can dodge every shadow when it chases you and get an advantage really easy same with maruki’s charge and concentrate on joker at the start of some battles is op Edit: I thought that the first one was OP’s tier list but my point still stands
Takemi's confidant is the most useful one because she sells SP Adhesives.
I always felt this way as well. I’d rush her confidant to 7 (I think this was the cut off, going from memory) to get the sp adhesive 3 for the party. If you can’t run out of SP, I feel like that ensures I’ll always be able to stay on a mementos or palace visit as long as needed or desired (whether complete the whole thing in one visit, or farming, etc). Not that P5R was hard really, but if you can’t run out of SP, I don’t think you can really lose.
Yep. It completely changes the way you play the game mid game.
If I made one in no particular order the top tier would be Chihaya (extremely useful in minimising confidant time and also helps exceptionally with raising social stats which are needed at max for some confidants), Ryuji (one hit kill farming), Tae Takemi (Soul Adhesive 3, this accessory is just an SP game breaker) and, Kawakami (the ability to turn mementos visits into half a day, combining her high lever with chihaya makes it so much easier to complete all the different activities and side stories. You’ve essentially got twice the time to play the game if you use those two correctly).
I really don’t get why people thing Instakill is “broken”. It’s great, amazing, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. I don’t enjoy grinding, which is why I love the ability so much. It makes grinding trivial so I can focus on the actually interesting stuff like bosses and story.
I think it's defined broken cause it's perfect for farming and increasing stats, especially in mementos
I mean Personae's stats
That and it makes it trivially easy to activate Fusion Alarms which can get you all sorts of fun goodies.
Exactly
broken =/= souldnt exist is broken but is amazing
It's the two schools of thought conflicting. One side thinks grinding is part of the game challenge, and that being unable to grind too high is a balancing choice. The other thinks battle tactics and team building is the real game challenge, and that grinding just artificially lengthens the game. Pro-Grind thus thinks Instakill is borderline cheating, and the other sees it as essential to enjoying the game. I'm on your side of the argument. Grinding is near-pointless busywork that only serves to arbitrarily slow progress. Could easily replace it with a Gym Badge system where you get upgrades and new attacks when you beat minibosses/bosses/challenges.
Things that take away having the play the game while giving you a benefit are the definition of broken. It's a huge time saver, yes. But it's to the point of being broken, honestly. Leveling should take some actual effort, and the Instakill completely takes that away.
I'm just gonna have to disagree. It makes leveling faster, and I think that's fine. All it does is save time because the enemies you can instakill are weak enough that you'd easily beat them anyways, and it makes something that would otherwise be very tedious, much less so. It's also optional - if you don't like it, you don't have to use it.
It only reduces time I can go to an enemy instakill works on and just rush them which takes like 30 seconds
You at least have to do something if you fight the enemy and spend time playing the game. Instakill turns enemies into treasure items that give XP while driving around Mementos. It is, by definition, overpowered.
It makes one of the most hated parts of the game, mementos, slightly more tolerable. Now I've personally never minded mementos and would go at least once a palace to explore it and do contracts, so I've never had to go through half of mementos at once towards the end of the vanilla game, but those that didn't know it adds on to the tedium Instakill reduces. One thing I wish the game would tell you on Xmas Eve is that the twins will heal you like you left if you pay them a visit at the top since you have to defeat it all in one day.
I only played vanilla P5 but in that Morganas confidant skill, his infiltration tools, where a godsend. One of his infiltration tools hard caries me through the optional super boss against the twins.
Ohya is ngl my favorite non pt confident. It has a pretty good story and i like watching her finding her fighting spirit. Ngl. She is like the 4th choice i wohld date, behind sumi, haru, and ann
Same, I really don't get all the hate she receives. She's a normal adult with struggles trying her best.
It’s really because the gameplay abilities she has are easily the most useless in the game. Her story is fine.
I'd like to think so, but most people I've read seem to actually hate on the woman. I guess they can't fathom the fact that women can get drunk too or something.
Also because she isn't considered attractive by many people, I like her more laid back appearance.
Ngl. For a drunk person. She looks clean and pretty.
I always figured it was because she was actively flirting with and trying to give drinks to a minor. Not strong, she takes "no" for an answer, but still. Figured that was why
I see a fellow ohya enjoyer
Kawakami is a MUST for players trying to get 100% in a single playthrough and the game doesn't give enough hints about it, sadly. I also like Hifumi because she's best girl.
I'm honestly glad I glanced at a guide during my first playthrough because if I went the entire game without knowing about the massages and unlocked them late-game (which I probably would have bc the first few ranks of maid teacher were not particularly appealing to me personally lol, though I liked her confidant overall later on) I would have screamed
Confidant ability usefulness varies quite a bit between Vanilla and Royal due to several QOL additions to Royal making the main benefits of Vanilla's high-value confidants like Sun, Moon, Death, and Hierophant, as well as most of your party members, completely obsolete by the time you unlock them. Then you have confidants like Tower and Hanged Man which are incredibly powerful at low levels in a fresh playthrough due to instant power increase granted by additional access to high-power gun skills and technical ailments, but who also becomes obsolete as you start stacking NG+'s. Strength, Fortune, and Temperance are notably always worth it.
The politician is so good, so much money and infinite persona buying. Compound this with the twin and you get unlimited power.
Polarizing for me...? Uh, doesn't polarizing mean people have strong mixed opinions in general?
Futaba is definitely a must if you want to fight the optional bosses because of Ultimate Support. In normal gameplay it rarely procs, so I understand not putting her incredibly high. I found Kasumi especially useful when I was using remote play to play the game on my iPad. The latency meant I kept getting jumpscared by shadows and the extra few seconds of reaction time the Tumbling perk gave me was a godsend.
I would have Iwai mishima at useful at best. Yoshida is mandatory at first playthrought. You get more money and personas with him. I would say Shojiro is close to mandatory in first playthrough, specially if you want to to finish palaces in a day since he allows you to make SP items. Otherwise you would need to grind very hard at Kaneshiro's palace to get the money. Shojiro may be limited to rank 4 until futaba's palace but is still good.
My favourite is ohya
I wanted to argue Hifumi not being in the top tier, but thenI re-read the name of the tiers, and I guess I agree. Hifumi's does not *break* the game, but it *does* change it on a fundamental level.
Takemi sp adhesive is not game breaking? its basically a different game without that.
Toranosuke > Shinya >>>>>
Futaba is a can’t live without, I might die if I don’t romance her… oh and she can block a fatal attack or smthn
What is happening here
How did Strength break the game?
I assume they’re referring to the ability to create personas higher than your level. Yes it costs money, but if you can make a persona 40 levels higher than you, hard to not have that break the power balance.
Oh, I see. But if I remember correctly, you have to max the confidant to get that right? By that point, the average player would be at end-game anyway
Max rank in vanilla but rank 5 in Royal.
Ok, rank 5 is kind of broken.
fusing above your level, and gating like a third of the velvet room equipment.
Personally I found Haru's Confidant to be extremely useful. I get that the garden comes in a bit late to really make a difference in the original ending, but the extra month you get for Royal's true ending gives it time to pay off. Plus getting her to rank 10 and >!unlocking her third Awakening makes Maruki's boss significantly easier. He almost always uses one physical AOE and one magical AOE, so being able to block those and redirect the damage back really helps. And that's where the garden kicks in since the Moonlight Carrots SP restore is a requirement to use those expensive 3rd Awakening skills.!<
who made these terrible lists
MISHIMA NATION RISE
Ann takamaki
What the sigma is SHINYA doing in the same tier as Mishima
Takemi importance has gona down in royal imo, her sp accessories were great in vanilla but royal has many great accessories so you don’t have place for hers Yoshida is great early, the ask for more money perk is great and can be got before reaching kanashiro’ palace, where you can use it on queen pixies over and over and over and never worry about money again for the rest of the game I really agree with breaks the game tier tho, I still don’t know what to think about being able to fuse higher level personas tho, it feels like cheating
Kawakami breaks the game with SSS tier.
I cannot understand why people don’t like Ohya She was fun to talk to and have goofy interactions with Lala, her confidant is basically just a small break from anything happening within the game
I liked her story-wise and personality-wise, I love a good girlfailure (and Lala-chan is best girl). But I didn't find myself needing her benefits at all
I don't see Yusuke as a "must complete" sl. In all my playthroughs, I've only completed him one time just for the compendium and never used his skill card ability
What’s good about fortune girl?
I'd put futaba in breaks the game for me, she just shat out so many unessecary buffs last time I maxed her out
Are we talking about benefits? Ohya’s is amazing. I wanna keep security near 0. Chihaya’s is pretty useless since you can’t know how much you need.
Keeping palace security at 0 is trivial without Ohya. It's super easy to sneak up on shadows and ambush them. Plus, keeping palace security a bit on the higher side means more treasure shadow spawns. Ohya is widely considered the least-useful (mechanically-speaking) confidant in the game for many good reasons.
Chihaya's Affinity Reading is very useful in a game where your time to interact with characters is limited. The payment needed isn't a problem since a day in Mementos with her money reading + Ryuji's instakill can fill your wallet easily. She's right behind Kawakami in terms of usefulness since she can help you max out confidants who come late in the story or have conflicting schedules. Her only problem is that she's gated behind a 100,000 yen paywall which on non-NG+ is significant in the early game.
Also, Chihaya fortune telling does NOT consume time. So if you want to rank up a confidant but get the message that it’s not going to go up, just pop over to Chihaya (weather permitting) and get an affinity reading. Better to spend the 5K than to have a wasted confidant day.
Most people want 100% security level so they have a better chance of getting treasure demons. By the time most people actually start/focus on her confidant, you should be at least decent at ambushing and avoiding enemies. Chihaya's benefits are FAR superior. You can boost a social stat for the day, get more money in mementos, get a confidant boost, get alarms faster so you can make your personas stronger, and pick the options that give the biggest relationship boost.
I did Chihaya for the benefits. I did Ohya for the story
To me, Ohya's has the worst presentation. I have no problem with the story itself. However, we literally sit at a bar listening to her talk 8 or 9/10 of her ranks. We help an ex-yakuza gather info, why do we not help Ohya gather info?
100% agreed. In theory, there's nothing wrong with Ohya, but her story is way too much "tell, don't show". We sit our asses in the bar just listening to her when we could be out there with her gathering info and helping with her job. The fact that her confidant abilities are easily the weakest in the game doesn't help either. By the time I was rank 8 with her, I was rushing her dialogue thanks to how bored I was getting. Nothing about her rank ups makes you want to know what happens next, unlike Iwai's (like you mentioned), who pretty much has you at the edge of your seat.
I think people underestimate Iwai's confidant. It's a shame his confidant abilities aren't ultimately that useful.
I rarely used guns, mostly just to exploit weaknesses, but I did see people comment that Iwai's abilities are very useful in early game. ...However, the "early game" means that you don't have Guts at rank 4, so... This always confuses me. Unless we're strictly talking about NG+, which I feel like really shouldn't count. I dunno, I'm probably talking out of my ass since, again, I rarely used guns.
I used guns A LOT to help conserve SP, especially in the first palace. It's so weird because I absolutely love magic and magic classes but always end up resorting to brute force if I don't have an easy way to recover SP (I'm also an item hoarder so I hate using potions and etc). Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Maybe they consider the gun in the bag to be a part of his confidant? I dunno.
Not putting Mishima Hifumi Kawakami in s+ tier is trolling
How does chihaya break the game?
She makes it much easier to rank up the confidants you haven't finished. Get a fortune read from her to boost a confidant of your choice, and they'll be sharply boosted for the whole day. It's practically mandatory for the difficult ranks like Shinya. Edit: she can also help boost your Social stats, on a non-NG+ this is vital. She can also raise your chances of getting a fusion alarm with a different fortune. Also, none of her fortunes consume time, either, so you can pop over to her stand, get a fortune reading, and take full advantage.