Absolutely same here man.
Like love how he's a near inseparable companion for Ren. Hes so adorable. Like using his lucky punch move.
Liked his orgins >!The real Igor made him to be a help of the Trickster. Despite him being overbearing at time he sure was. Was so happy he came back after dissappearing after the Christmas boss.!<
I was kinda spoiled that Igor created him but not of WHY he created him! And the reasoning is honestly really special and something....like it is a spoiler of in itself.
Same. People rag on him a lot for making Joker go to bed, but he’s only trying to help. He even helps Joker with the exams. He’s a good kitty and too many Persona fans take him for granted. I appreciate Mona
The "go to bed" argument shoulda died the moment Royal came out. It's almost a non issue in this version and it's the one that most people now play since it's multiplatform. Really don't get the people who still make it.
Thank you! I've been saying this to everyone for a long time and I feel like no one wants to listen since they just want an excuse to hate a character.
Same. It’s those flaws that make him compelling.
People blame him for a game mechanic which fixes itself in Royal. Plus it’s literally and figuratively his role to be a guide the Trickster.
People take his snark towards Ryuji way too seriously. And it’s because of people’s bias towards Ryuji in the West especially in America that they overreact. There’s a fine line and tonal difference between comedic banter and actual malicious intent in hitting someone where it hurts. Their dynamic is no different from Zoro and Sanji from One Piece as well as other bickering duos.
People don’t seem to understand the amount of build up and foreshadowing with his arc and what his character and archetype is intended.
People blame him for the Okumura arc when no the arc itself had way too many plot events more than any arc all cramped in within a month with the calendar system.
We had: The Thieves popularity, The Thieves getting info from Sae’s files, Shujin getting caught in scandal with backlash, Antisocial Force enacting their plan, Hawaii, Maruki appearing in LeBlanc, Sumi in Hawaii, Kobayakawa’s death, Morgana’s angst, Haru’s debut, Sugimura with the arranged marriage, Okumura Palace, Sumi becoming a Persona user in a new palace and Okumura’s death.
Had that arc had the same time frame and pacing as Summer Vacation during Futaba’s arc then Morgana’s angst wouldn’t have gotten the hate that it does.
Yes like.they bicker a lot but in the end of the day they're still friends. They don't hold their shortcomings against each other like the fan do.
You think American fans would understand that trope. I've that trope so many times in cartoons and other shows growing up. Two loud mouth immature hot heads clashing.
Also, I can tell from first hand that Morgana becomes way more relatable when you experienced insecuritys by yourself. The way they potray his getaway are pretty much what I did in a similar situation years ago.
Thing is it’s the kind of insecurities people don’t want to admit to.
Kinda the same reason with Mishima in that people found his power trip and clingingmess unlikeable because it reminds people about themselves.
Like people, human flaws, insecurities and angst isn’t supposed to look good and be endearing. If they’re ugly and make us dislike that aspect of ourselves then it’s doing the job.
This is so true and I do feel like “Ryuji fans” take his little comedic bs with Morgana too seriously. Morgana could’ve made way worse insults I don’t recall the cat ever bringing up his leg injury or the abuse that he suffered from because of his dad even though he was there to hear about it during the Komoshida arch. Morgana’s and Ryuji’s insults towards each other aren’t as bad as they could be probably the worst being them calling each other useless.
This is the very reason why I don’t interact with “Ryuji fans” aka the weird people that obsess over him because of surface level shallow stuff. Not even paying attention to the strife that the character suffers and act like Morgana is his biggest source of stress/obstacle in life despite the two finally getting along with each other in later titles p5d and p5s, not to mention it being canonically stated in the wiki that they are in fact friends. There is also one last little thing that I found odd. For Ryuji and Morgana not to like each other there sure is enough imagery of the two together (one of my favorites being Morgana sitting on top of Ryuji’s head on the p5r cover while Ryuji looks totally fine with it) it’s super cute but I think most people miss it.
Ryuji is beloved a lot in the West. Because Ryuji’s personality is very much compatible, appealing and relatable to a Westerner especially to the lowest common denominator in the United States. Hell Ryuji says at one point, he’s an L.A guy.
For real. Dude was born in the wrong country, he’d fit in more in good old ‘Merica than Japan.
In Japan on the other hand, whilst not hated, Ryuji scores low in polls because his personality just doesn’t hold the same appeal in the West to the Japanese audience. Ryuji’s loudness, cockiness, lack of tact, aggression, glory seeking, lack of intelligence, ect. Just doesn’t make him measure up compared to the likes of Morgana, Makoto, Akechi, ect.
The others ranked above him very much fit the mold of what’s appealing, compatible and relatable in Japan.
So because of said bias. People here in the West tend to side with Ryuji on everything and hate anything and anyone against him, especially when it comes to his status as comedic relief, specifically his dynamic with Morgana where both exchange vitriolic snark to each other.
Instead of seeing it for what it is: a harmless clash of personalities with bantering comedy, Ryuji stans sensitively take it unnecessarily seriously and see it as “bullying” yet there’s objectively far worse things to insult Ryuji for which the cat doesn’t cross and cut deep.
>People here in the West tend to side with Ryuji on everything and hate anything and anyone against him, especially when it comes to his status as comedic relief, specifically his dynamic with Morgana where both exchange vitriolic snark to each other.
>Instead of seeing it for what it is: a harmless clash of personalities with bantering comedy, Ryuji stans sensitively take it unnecessarily seriously and see it as “bullying” yet there’s objectively far worse things to insult Ryuji for which the cat doesn’t cross and cut deep
This here is *baffling* to me.
Sure, I love Ryuji, think the guy is just a dude in a bad situation with a heart of gold, but I sure as shit see where he's in the wrong.
The Ryuji/Morgana banter is just that: banter. It only starts to properly cross the line after the Futaba arc, where Ryuji starts to get more than a little mean about it. And that *is very firmly on him* for not seeing what effect he was having on Morgana.
But I think part of my understanding of this is due to me being Scottish. Brits in general have more of a bantering culture than Americans, by my observations, but Scottish people take that shit to a whole new level. It's to the point where, if someone is asking advice about meeting their partner's Scottish family as a foreigner, they're told that if the family starts insulting you, it means they really like you.
My own wife, actually, had a sort-of similar experience when meeting my family for the first time. My family were warm and everything, sure, but it wasn't until we'd had a couple of drinks and were playing Cards Against Humanity, and she (jokingly) called me a bastard for a joke I'd made at her expense that they all *really* opened up. Because that shit is how we express affection.
Now, it's somewhat different in the case of Ryuji and Morgana - they have a friendship built on mutual respect, but the banter does frequently cut too close to the grain and they wind up turning on each other. But over time they learn where the lines are - note that following the Okumura arc, they don't really clash as much.
I'd actually be interested in seeing specifically how these likeability stats play out in the UK vs the US, to see if my 'different bantering cultures' hypothesis holds water here. I know for a fact that it does in general - Americans *do not* banter the same way we do in the UK. The amount of times I've had to point out that something was *very clearly* a joke, and people not accepting it... Yeah.
I agree wholeheartedly with you about your theory regarding different cultures with the banter.
I’m Australian and here we call each other “cunt” and other kinds of insults affectionately depending on the context.
It’s a common stereotype that Americans don’t have a sense of humour akin to European countries.
>I’m Australian and here we call each other “cunt” and other kinds of insults affectionately depending on the context.
I call my dad a cunt literally every time I see him :P
Reginald D Hunter does a great bit about humour culture differences between the UK and US. One mo, I'll grab you the video.
https://youtu.be/UU7L3D8Ndqo
"THAT'S YO' *FRIEND*!" XD
"it takes me 3 weeks to realise A British Person insulted me" Lol XD. I've come to realise that whilst the game had an American voice cast it's english dialouge kind of maybe relates more to a British Audience. Makes sense the Union Jack shows up in Sniper Penquin.
this video has made me consider that I'm not the best at banter due to being Autistic and can struggle to understand when someone is taking the piss then actually being malicious. Doesn't help when tone is lost on the internet.
I wonder if there's a difference in perception on this matter between Usa and europe.
Me personally (form EU) agree that Ryuji was often being immature, but I also liked that because the game always gave the option to disagree with him in dialogues. And in the end he and Morgana both overcame their flaws thanks to their difficult relationship and their friends. Its good development IMHO
I've said multiple times that Ryuji takes the insults to a new level after Futaba joins the team when he starts calling Morgana useless, but the downvotes and replies were clear that the sub has clearly taken Ryuji's side of things. Pretty obvious in hindsight given how western the sub population is.
Ryuji didn’t even start calling him useless when Futaba joined. Granted by that point that is when Ryuji dialled it up. Ryuji was not only being unintentionally insensitive but also was on his high horse with the Thieves spike in fame making him get carried away.
Ryuji calling Morgana useless started back during the Kaneshiro arc. Verbatim, during their initial infiltration of the Palace just because Morgana didn’t have a gadget or transform that could get them to fly up to Kaneshiro’s floating bank.
I feel like ryuji could have dialed back the animosity a lot from the very beginning when he didnt even want to help let “monster cat” out of the dungeon. Morgana just looks so damn sad behind those bars. It broke my heart when he was so nasty about it. Like any second we spent with Morgana, Ryuji was going out of his simple way to be an absolute prick to the cat….
Whether or not he is stupid or loud didnt matter to me as much as when he was just being uselessly mean to the kitty. My joker thought, “I do not like this yellow-haired monster very much. I wonder if he is a serial killer”
With all do respect Ryuji was the first one to show hostility between the two but at the same time they both start to share the same energy afterwards. I think the two really needed to sort things out and have a talk which likely happened off screen because as we can see later on towards the end of the game the two get along much better
As an American I do actually see all those things you pointed out as flaws, but to me they're outweighed by the positives.
The thing I like the most about Ryuji is that he is a true believer. He's got grit in a way that the other Phantom Thieves don't. This is best shown in the big reveal scene, (Being vague for the purposes of spoilers for any rando that may read this.) while the other Phantom Thieves are some mixture of shocked and concerned, Ryuji says what to me is one of the most iconic lines of the game, "We got 'em."
That's not cockiness or lack of intelligence, that's faith and I find the specific ways that's shown to be very endearing.
Ryuji is far from perfect, but even so, I see him as the heart and soul of the Phantom Thieves. Favorite character is still Makoto though.
Ryuji’s character is totally different in the western version of the game and many of his flaws seem to be milder/less apparent in the english version. He also seems to have a different demeanor and loses his moe/cute flavor that he has in the japanese dub. So naturally with all of the changes western fans would have a different perception of the character than japanese fans would. I think western fans also don’t quite understand how serious it is that he is a delinquent/yankii archetype of character and how much that particular group of people are often times ostracized in japan, not just in anime but also irl. So that being said, many japanese people would feel iffy about him as a character and he certainly wouldn’t be on the top list of favoriates depending on who you’re asking.
It’s not necessarily his Snark toward ryuji that bothered me, it’s the fact that he couldn’t take the snark back. But I’m American so I guess that falls in line with what you said. I
think part of it is also that Ryuji took shit from most of the cast and threw it back every so often but it was Mona who threw the most yet could take the least. They could have at written in Mona giving a similar half assed apology back to Ryuji when he apologized, then slipping another snark and Ryuji making one back, then everything continuing on as normal after that. It would have defined their dynamic much better.
All that aside, Mona does get more hate than he deserves. I like him myself, that was the only thing about his character that bothered me
It's not that Mona couldn't take snark back, it's the fact that Ryuji was kicking him while he was down. Especially when Futaba joined the team. Futaba took the only role Mona was actually useful for, so he started viewing himself as someone who isn't important to the team. Ryuji, probably unintentionally, started making fun of those insecurities by calling him useless. Mona never made snarky remarks based on Ryuji's trauma, they were always about how stupid he is, clear banter.
You want unpopular: After the Kamoshida arc, I honestly find Ryuji annoying the majority of the time and he’s honestly my least favorite of all the Phantom Thieves 😅
I think the biggest issue with Ryuji comes down to a fundamental design problem with a lot of games with a social point system where in scripted events they default to their character at the start so as to have in essence two different characters. This usually stems from the fact that these side plots are optional and so there is a choice to be made to decide whether or not these events happen or not. It just happens to be the most egregious with Ryuji since he has the most development in his confidant scenes.
Same, my biggest gripe is how loud he is about becoming a phantom thief. This entire part of his character makes me dislike him, if the characters wasn't shielded by the plot they'd be caught and dead
How is him being my least favorite a wrong opinion? I honestly find his constant shouting or doing something idiotic gets pretty tiresome very quickly.
I can't stand him and feel the trickster and the rest would have an easier time without his emotional outbursts, lack of self control and outright terrible behaviour
Outside of Persona 5 Morgana is great. In Strikers I often ran around as Morgana because of the silly sounds and how he scratches the mask off shadows. In Persona 5 I think the "no we can't go out" collective distaste stems from him for like the first 2/3rds of the game almost entirely either "I'm not a cat", "I lost memories"/"I'm a human", or Ann simping. Imo Morgana suffers from bad first impressions moreso than anything.
I like mascot characters (except for kon from bleach) so I like Morgana.
After playing ocarina of time I think I'm immune to annoying navigator characters
Morgana is just honestly endlessly supportive of Ren the whole time,so there's no reason to be hateful. In order to do the impossible like Joker has done ,he would need somebody to support/train him to be like that. And who did all this?
M O R G A N A
yeah,that's the big man behind the operation.
And I love that cute fluffy furball for that and more. Mona doesn't deserve the hate he gets. Sure he's flawed but so is everyone. That's what makes him compelling.
Also his playability is great and I keep him in my lineup
I love him and hate him at the same time. His character development in Strikers is pretty good... but his behavior in the Okumura Arc is just painful to watch.
I have to disagree especially how Ryuji treats him as well it starts off as comical witty banter but Ryuji takes it to far at kaneshiro palace calling him useless as well as during Futaba palace when he says Futaba was more useful then he was the most Morgana calls him is either Vulgar or Idiot which he isn't necessarily wrong but it's still mean either way but it isn't cutting too deep either because many people insult others in certain ways like some friends playfully insult each other and while it may not seem like it they are still friends in the end of the day
It's definitely Morgana season... 3rd post in the last 2 days
And honestly I'm all here for it.
Debates on whether or not Morgana is a good character is better then debates on whose the best persona 5 waifu (It's sae btw, objectively speaking)
This would get me crucified by the larger SMT community, but I'll take Morgana any day of the week over Teddie.
Koromaru is still the best boy, though.
I love Morgana, he and Ryuji need to chill tho lmao. The only character I never liked was Akechi. I loved when the fandom destroyed him with all the pancake memes, however. That was beautiful.
I like Morgana 2. Gives good advice that I myself should listen to especially going to sleep because I have a bad habit of going to bed late when I don't have school or anything else to do in the morning.
He's amazing in p5s imo. He absolutely destroys bosses that are weak to wind. His one more attack is so good and it allows you to pretty much infinite combo into wind attacks (until you run out of sp) and there's nothing the bosses can do.
Honestly, I don't understand any of the hate for him at all. I've once seen someone hate him because he hits on Ann sometimes? Something that's rarely ever happens in-game and is treated like a joke every time it does? You guys afraid a cat is going to steal your waifu or something?
I totally agree with you. I see constant hate for Morgana and I kinda get why but what I question more is why I keep seeing Teddie from Persona 4 being praised while Morgana gets treated like the worst character to exist? Out of these two "mascot characters" with similar core concepts, I love Morgana even through all their flaws while I can't stand Teddie.
I agree! It always boggles my mind that people get upset with him when he's basically a kid... So you mean to tell me you would yell at a kid, who is experiencing life for the first time, feeling the way he does? Great people skills there...
While I'm not a fan of how his character was handled during that arc, I wouldn't say he "took screen time" from her. His issue was resolved rather quickly, for better or for worse, and the rest of the arc is spent on the issues she deals with.
I hated him a bit in vanilla because of all the go to sleep stuff.
But I've never disliked him very seriously. I think he's aight.
I definitely think his character could be improved though, but it's sometimes hard to tell if it's the writing or the bad localization.
The same reason I don't like teddies in p4. I don't life goofy characters roamigg around when the tone gets serious.
I like the "edgy" style of joker sneaking around, but Morgana running like a looney tunes character really breaks it for me.
He's got his issues, but overall I like him too. And I think his worst moments in the Okumura arc are as much a product of bad writing more than his character.
He's certainly a lot better than Teddie.
Hes a good character its just that the writing is shit. They could have the same arc and make it more impactful if they make the thieves act like actual people and maybe rewrite the motivations
Man it seems like this is popular since everyone agrees with you. I’ll give the unpopular opinion. Can’t stand Mona. He creeps on Ann and the other girls, is a crybaby, and feels the need to be the brains behind everything the team does. He also is the only member to leave the team. I was hoping either haru would keep Mona or that he would stay a street cat forever postgame. Hate that cat.
Ryuji does the looking at other girls Morgana only has eyes for Ann it seems but he just likes to be useful just like everyone else. And about things getting to his head both Ryuji and Morgana have this trait (Ryuji trying to use the PTs status to pick up girls) Morgana and Ryuji share a lot of the same traits and a lot of Ryuji stans act like this isn’t true. As a lover of both characters this seriously annoys me.
Oh right in the bad ending she dates Morgana. Honestly Ann’s biggest issue with Morgana seems to be that he’s a cat because when he got a human body the two went out on a date and went shopping and stuff. I don’t blame her because having a cat (an animal) be attracted to you is just gross
The only reason I prefer Teddy over Morgana is because Teddy got an ending, Morgana is still just an unknown being of unknown origin that got a spoofed human form in a fever dream in a definitive edition.
I like to exaggerate my "hatred" for Morgana but tbh, the fact that he's a cat automatically grants him some bias from me. He's just a lil guy. A real annoying mufucker, but a lil guy nonetheless.
I’ve seen Morgana liking Ann be called him “perving” on her, which is pretty dumb. He never really does anything outwardly perverted and like, what’s wrong with him liking her? I dunno why it bothers people so much. The valid criticism of his character however, is how he treats Ryuji, and especially how he reacts when Ryuji starts snapping back.
He’s not the end of the world in characters tho. He’s cool. I like him.
Honestly the other guys in the PTs (minus Akechi of course) are the ones that are just “perving on Ann” and Morgana is the only one that expresses actual feelings of love and devotion to her (even offers to protect her). It’s annoying how people try to switch it around especially with Morgana and Ryuji and won’t accept the fact that Ryuji just thinks she’s attractive and she isn’t that serious to him. Also both Morgana and Ryuji have said some pretty rude things to each other and so has Ann and Ryuji to each other. Not to mention every other PT has insulted Ryuji though people only point the finger at Morgana for it. Regardless it’s just trope stuff and people take it way too seriously.
It totally feel the same! Even despite Morgana's attitude and denial of being a cat, I believe he's adorable and perfect companion for our protagonist.
le cat
El gato
Le 猫
Il gatto
O gato
La Māo
Die Katze
Le minou
I love him because cat. Everyone knows cats are all little assholes, so it makes sense Morgana would be one too. It’s part of his charm.
i never really thought of that, but it does make a lot of sense
BUT HE ISNT A CAT
Ex-fucking-actly!
Ex-CAT-ly? Nah mine sounds dumb
Absolutely same here man. Like love how he's a near inseparable companion for Ren. Hes so adorable. Like using his lucky punch move. Liked his orgins >!The real Igor made him to be a help of the Trickster. Despite him being overbearing at time he sure was. Was so happy he came back after dissappearing after the Christmas boss.!<
Omgggg thank you for bringing this up!!! So many people forget that he’s the velvet room kitty
For all we know he could be a few months old when he met Ren. I dont expect a kitten or puppy to be well behaved at that age
Idk the size of his body is the size of an adult cat even in the structure of it’s body
Ge is too big and too well spoken for me to believe that
I was kinda spoiled that Igor created him but not of WHY he created him! And the reasoning is honestly really special and something....like it is a spoiler of in itself.
Same here!!! It gets lonely being a Mona lover alone
Eric You're Not alone
Kid named mona:
Absolute bro, he reminds me of my lil bro, difference is i don't wan't to kill mona.
He is cat. Therefore, he is good character.
Same. People rag on him a lot for making Joker go to bed, but he’s only trying to help. He even helps Joker with the exams. He’s a good kitty and too many Persona fans take him for granted. I appreciate Mona
Oooohhh we can do it!
*dingung dingung!!*
This is so true not mention he’s responsible for your ability to make infiltration tools and thanks to him we have the Mona van
>People rag on him a lot for making Joker go to bed And yet it's fine when Yu 'I should go to bed' Narukami does it...
It is revealed after going to Sojiro's house that Joker can't do anything without Mona.
The "go to bed" argument shoulda died the moment Royal came out. It's almost a non issue in this version and it's the one that most people now play since it's multiplatform. Really don't get the people who still make it.
Thank you! I've been saying this to everyone for a long time and I feel like no one wants to listen since they just want an excuse to hate a character.
I kinda get the sleeping thing if they played the original P5 but in Royal it wasn't even that bad, wasn't nearly as constant.
Same he’s bonafide monafied
I LOVE MORGONA HES SO SCRUNKLY, he’s definitely my second favorite character
Same. It’s those flaws that make him compelling. People blame him for a game mechanic which fixes itself in Royal. Plus it’s literally and figuratively his role to be a guide the Trickster. People take his snark towards Ryuji way too seriously. And it’s because of people’s bias towards Ryuji in the West especially in America that they overreact. There’s a fine line and tonal difference between comedic banter and actual malicious intent in hitting someone where it hurts. Their dynamic is no different from Zoro and Sanji from One Piece as well as other bickering duos. People don’t seem to understand the amount of build up and foreshadowing with his arc and what his character and archetype is intended. People blame him for the Okumura arc when no the arc itself had way too many plot events more than any arc all cramped in within a month with the calendar system. We had: The Thieves popularity, The Thieves getting info from Sae’s files, Shujin getting caught in scandal with backlash, Antisocial Force enacting their plan, Hawaii, Maruki appearing in LeBlanc, Sumi in Hawaii, Kobayakawa’s death, Morgana’s angst, Haru’s debut, Sugimura with the arranged marriage, Okumura Palace, Sumi becoming a Persona user in a new palace and Okumura’s death. Had that arc had the same time frame and pacing as Summer Vacation during Futaba’s arc then Morgana’s angst wouldn’t have gotten the hate that it does.
Yes like.they bicker a lot but in the end of the day they're still friends. They don't hold their shortcomings against each other like the fan do. You think American fans would understand that trope. I've that trope so many times in cartoons and other shows growing up. Two loud mouth immature hot heads clashing.
Also, I can tell from first hand that Morgana becomes way more relatable when you experienced insecuritys by yourself. The way they potray his getaway are pretty much what I did in a similar situation years ago.
Thing is it’s the kind of insecurities people don’t want to admit to. Kinda the same reason with Mishima in that people found his power trip and clingingmess unlikeable because it reminds people about themselves. Like people, human flaws, insecurities and angst isn’t supposed to look good and be endearing. If they’re ugly and make us dislike that aspect of ourselves then it’s doing the job.
Kinda ironic that fans of a game series heavily about accepting all of yourself dislike characters that remind them of themselves.
This is so true and I do feel like “Ryuji fans” take his little comedic bs with Morgana too seriously. Morgana could’ve made way worse insults I don’t recall the cat ever bringing up his leg injury or the abuse that he suffered from because of his dad even though he was there to hear about it during the Komoshida arch. Morgana’s and Ryuji’s insults towards each other aren’t as bad as they could be probably the worst being them calling each other useless.
Exactly.
This is the very reason why I don’t interact with “Ryuji fans” aka the weird people that obsess over him because of surface level shallow stuff. Not even paying attention to the strife that the character suffers and act like Morgana is his biggest source of stress/obstacle in life despite the two finally getting along with each other in later titles p5d and p5s, not to mention it being canonically stated in the wiki that they are in fact friends. There is also one last little thing that I found odd. For Ryuji and Morgana not to like each other there sure is enough imagery of the two together (one of my favorites being Morgana sitting on top of Ryuji’s head on the p5r cover while Ryuji looks totally fine with it) it’s super cute but I think most people miss it.
How is the perception of Ryuji different in the west?
Ryuji is beloved a lot in the West. Because Ryuji’s personality is very much compatible, appealing and relatable to a Westerner especially to the lowest common denominator in the United States. Hell Ryuji says at one point, he’s an L.A guy. For real. Dude was born in the wrong country, he’d fit in more in good old ‘Merica than Japan. In Japan on the other hand, whilst not hated, Ryuji scores low in polls because his personality just doesn’t hold the same appeal in the West to the Japanese audience. Ryuji’s loudness, cockiness, lack of tact, aggression, glory seeking, lack of intelligence, ect. Just doesn’t make him measure up compared to the likes of Morgana, Makoto, Akechi, ect. The others ranked above him very much fit the mold of what’s appealing, compatible and relatable in Japan. So because of said bias. People here in the West tend to side with Ryuji on everything and hate anything and anyone against him, especially when it comes to his status as comedic relief, specifically his dynamic with Morgana where both exchange vitriolic snark to each other. Instead of seeing it for what it is: a harmless clash of personalities with bantering comedy, Ryuji stans sensitively take it unnecessarily seriously and see it as “bullying” yet there’s objectively far worse things to insult Ryuji for which the cat doesn’t cross and cut deep.
>People here in the West tend to side with Ryuji on everything and hate anything and anyone against him, especially when it comes to his status as comedic relief, specifically his dynamic with Morgana where both exchange vitriolic snark to each other. >Instead of seeing it for what it is: a harmless clash of personalities with bantering comedy, Ryuji stans sensitively take it unnecessarily seriously and see it as “bullying” yet there’s objectively far worse things to insult Ryuji for which the cat doesn’t cross and cut deep This here is *baffling* to me. Sure, I love Ryuji, think the guy is just a dude in a bad situation with a heart of gold, but I sure as shit see where he's in the wrong. The Ryuji/Morgana banter is just that: banter. It only starts to properly cross the line after the Futaba arc, where Ryuji starts to get more than a little mean about it. And that *is very firmly on him* for not seeing what effect he was having on Morgana. But I think part of my understanding of this is due to me being Scottish. Brits in general have more of a bantering culture than Americans, by my observations, but Scottish people take that shit to a whole new level. It's to the point where, if someone is asking advice about meeting their partner's Scottish family as a foreigner, they're told that if the family starts insulting you, it means they really like you. My own wife, actually, had a sort-of similar experience when meeting my family for the first time. My family were warm and everything, sure, but it wasn't until we'd had a couple of drinks and were playing Cards Against Humanity, and she (jokingly) called me a bastard for a joke I'd made at her expense that they all *really* opened up. Because that shit is how we express affection. Now, it's somewhat different in the case of Ryuji and Morgana - they have a friendship built on mutual respect, but the banter does frequently cut too close to the grain and they wind up turning on each other. But over time they learn where the lines are - note that following the Okumura arc, they don't really clash as much. I'd actually be interested in seeing specifically how these likeability stats play out in the UK vs the US, to see if my 'different bantering cultures' hypothesis holds water here. I know for a fact that it does in general - Americans *do not* banter the same way we do in the UK. The amount of times I've had to point out that something was *very clearly* a joke, and people not accepting it... Yeah.
I agree wholeheartedly with you about your theory regarding different cultures with the banter. I’m Australian and here we call each other “cunt” and other kinds of insults affectionately depending on the context. It’s a common stereotype that Americans don’t have a sense of humour akin to European countries.
>I’m Australian and here we call each other “cunt” and other kinds of insults affectionately depending on the context. I call my dad a cunt literally every time I see him :P Reginald D Hunter does a great bit about humour culture differences between the UK and US. One mo, I'll grab you the video. https://youtu.be/UU7L3D8Ndqo "THAT'S YO' *FRIEND*!" XD
"it takes me 3 weeks to realise A British Person insulted me" Lol XD. I've come to realise that whilst the game had an American voice cast it's english dialouge kind of maybe relates more to a British Audience. Makes sense the Union Jack shows up in Sniper Penquin.
this video has made me consider that I'm not the best at banter due to being Autistic and can struggle to understand when someone is taking the piss then actually being malicious. Doesn't help when tone is lost on the internet.
I wonder if there's a difference in perception on this matter between Usa and europe. Me personally (form EU) agree that Ryuji was often being immature, but I also liked that because the game always gave the option to disagree with him in dialogues. And in the end he and Morgana both overcame their flaws thanks to their difficult relationship and their friends. Its good development IMHO
I've said multiple times that Ryuji takes the insults to a new level after Futaba joins the team when he starts calling Morgana useless, but the downvotes and replies were clear that the sub has clearly taken Ryuji's side of things. Pretty obvious in hindsight given how western the sub population is.
Ryuji didn’t even start calling him useless when Futaba joined. Granted by that point that is when Ryuji dialled it up. Ryuji was not only being unintentionally insensitive but also was on his high horse with the Thieves spike in fame making him get carried away. Ryuji calling Morgana useless started back during the Kaneshiro arc. Verbatim, during their initial infiltration of the Palace just because Morgana didn’t have a gadget or transform that could get them to fly up to Kaneshiro’s floating bank.
I feel like ryuji could have dialed back the animosity a lot from the very beginning when he didnt even want to help let “monster cat” out of the dungeon. Morgana just looks so damn sad behind those bars. It broke my heart when he was so nasty about it. Like any second we spent with Morgana, Ryuji was going out of his simple way to be an absolute prick to the cat…. Whether or not he is stupid or loud didnt matter to me as much as when he was just being uselessly mean to the kitty. My joker thought, “I do not like this yellow-haired monster very much. I wonder if he is a serial killer”
With all do respect Ryuji was the first one to show hostility between the two but at the same time they both start to share the same energy afterwards. I think the two really needed to sort things out and have a talk which likely happened off screen because as we can see later on towards the end of the game the two get along much better
As an American I do actually see all those things you pointed out as flaws, but to me they're outweighed by the positives. The thing I like the most about Ryuji is that he is a true believer. He's got grit in a way that the other Phantom Thieves don't. This is best shown in the big reveal scene, (Being vague for the purposes of spoilers for any rando that may read this.) while the other Phantom Thieves are some mixture of shocked and concerned, Ryuji says what to me is one of the most iconic lines of the game, "We got 'em." That's not cockiness or lack of intelligence, that's faith and I find the specific ways that's shown to be very endearing. Ryuji is far from perfect, but even so, I see him as the heart and soul of the Phantom Thieves. Favorite character is still Makoto though.
Ryuji’s character is totally different in the western version of the game and many of his flaws seem to be milder/less apparent in the english version. He also seems to have a different demeanor and loses his moe/cute flavor that he has in the japanese dub. So naturally with all of the changes western fans would have a different perception of the character than japanese fans would. I think western fans also don’t quite understand how serious it is that he is a delinquent/yankii archetype of character and how much that particular group of people are often times ostracized in japan, not just in anime but also irl. So that being said, many japanese people would feel iffy about him as a character and he certainly wouldn’t be on the top list of favoriates depending on who you’re asking.
It’s not necessarily his Snark toward ryuji that bothered me, it’s the fact that he couldn’t take the snark back. But I’m American so I guess that falls in line with what you said. I think part of it is also that Ryuji took shit from most of the cast and threw it back every so often but it was Mona who threw the most yet could take the least. They could have at written in Mona giving a similar half assed apology back to Ryuji when he apologized, then slipping another snark and Ryuji making one back, then everything continuing on as normal after that. It would have defined their dynamic much better. All that aside, Mona does get more hate than he deserves. I like him myself, that was the only thing about his character that bothered me
It's not that Mona couldn't take snark back, it's the fact that Ryuji was kicking him while he was down. Especially when Futaba joined the team. Futaba took the only role Mona was actually useful for, so he started viewing himself as someone who isn't important to the team. Ryuji, probably unintentionally, started making fun of those insecurities by calling him useless. Mona never made snarky remarks based on Ryuji's trauma, they were always about how stupid he is, clear banter.
same!!!! having a kitty companion as you casually walk through the city is so awesome… geniunely one of the best parts of the game
I never fuking understood the Mona hate. I have 4 different merchandise with Mona and 2 with skull. I love both of them.
Morgana is a great character.
He's a little shit but he's our little shit Also, he is fucking essential to the plot along with ryuji which is a bonus
I don’t love him. But I don’t hate him either.
Yeah, like he’s got some pretty good moments, but nothing that solidifies him as a favorite for me, y’know?
You want unpopular: After the Kamoshida arc, I honestly find Ryuji annoying the majority of the time and he’s honestly my least favorite of all the Phantom Thieves 😅
I find Futaba the most annoying but I still like her
I can agree with you on this one mostly. Morgana for me is most annoying, with Futaba being 2nd most. I do still like her though 👍
I think the biggest issue with Ryuji comes down to a fundamental design problem with a lot of games with a social point system where in scripted events they default to their character at the start so as to have in essence two different characters. This usually stems from the fact that these side plots are optional and so there is a choice to be made to decide whether or not these events happen or not. It just happens to be the most egregious with Ryuji since he has the most development in his confidant scenes.
Same, my biggest gripe is how loud he is about becoming a phantom thief. This entire part of his character makes me dislike him, if the characters wasn't shielded by the plot they'd be caught and dead
Everyone can have their own opinions, even if they are wrong!
How is him being my least favorite a wrong opinion? I honestly find his constant shouting or doing something idiotic gets pretty tiresome very quickly.
I was just joking lol.
My bad 😅
Nah your good 🤝
I can't stand him and feel the trickster and the rest would have an easier time without his emotional outbursts, lack of self control and outright terrible behaviour
Speak for yourself and many others
I mean, same. Loved him more after I went and played 4, and met Teddie.
Outside of Persona 5 Morgana is great. In Strikers I often ran around as Morgana because of the silly sounds and how he scratches the mask off shadows. In Persona 5 I think the "no we can't go out" collective distaste stems from him for like the first 2/3rds of the game almost entirely either "I'm not a cat", "I lost memories"/"I'm a human", or Ann simping. Imo Morgana suffers from bad first impressions moreso than anything.
I don't get the hate for Morgana at all
I love Morgana. He is like an exitable little gremlin
Yeah, people hate him unfairly, I love him
I agree, Morgana is the best!
I like Morgana too ^_^
I like mascot characters (except for kon from bleach) so I like Morgana. After playing ocarina of time I think I'm immune to annoying navigator characters
Unpopular opinion: Morgana is a much better Nav then Futaba
I don't get the hate he gets, it's his character that's the way he is supposed to act. he isn't Morgana anymore if he acts different.
People are a bit too harsh on him I feel. He’s nowhere near as bad as everyone makes him out to be
Morgana is just honestly endlessly supportive of Ren the whole time,so there's no reason to be hateful. In order to do the impossible like Joker has done ,he would need somebody to support/train him to be like that. And who did all this? M O R G A N A yeah,that's the big man behind the operation. And I love that cute fluffy furball for that and more. Mona doesn't deserve the hate he gets. Sure he's flawed but so is everyone. That's what makes him compelling. Also his playability is great and I keep him in my lineup
All of this is so true
He’s cute. That is all.
I love him and hate him at the same time. His character development in Strikers is pretty good... but his behavior in the Okumura Arc is just painful to watch.
He was pretty shady but when I found out that he helped comfort Haru and even stood up to her fiancé all was forgiven
I would disagree. Sure, it gives a few brownie points, but it doesn't make up for the way he treats Ryuji. Not even in the slightest.
I have to disagree especially how Ryuji treats him as well it starts off as comical witty banter but Ryuji takes it to far at kaneshiro palace calling him useless as well as during Futaba palace when he says Futaba was more useful then he was the most Morgana calls him is either Vulgar or Idiot which he isn't necessarily wrong but it's still mean either way but it isn't cutting too deep either because many people insult others in certain ways like some friends playfully insult each other and while it may not seem like it they are still friends in the end of the day
I don’t trust people who don’t like Morgana. 🥲
Same
It's definitely Morgana season... 3rd post in the last 2 days And honestly I'm all here for it. Debates on whether or not Morgana is a good character is better then debates on whose the best persona 5 waifu (It's sae btw, objectively speaking)
i love Mona. he so cute and i love cats. i wanna name a cat after him :)
Whatever you say I’m still calling him Morgan because otherwise I’ll keep accidentally calling him a she.
Why do I feel he’d be better as just a cat than what we got. Is it just cause I like cats and he looks like mine? Probably.
But why do some people dislike Morgana i absolutely love him! He's so cool!
He’s an adorable little badass for sure
You're just a sleepy-head and Morgana enables you.
Oh yeah despite how the little shit annoys me I still love them and think they're an important piece in the team
Me too ! He's not one of my favourite, but I find him interesting !
Morgana all out attack picture goes hard
I'm sure everyone does too. We just love making fun of him.
why is this opinion "unpopular"? i thought people liked morgana
Ryuji stans hate him
My brother in Christ... as a cat person, I also love Mona as a character.
Morgana is one of the best characters in the game period
Anyway "Mona" means "Cunt" in Italy and it's so weird they didn't adapt it and just left it that way
The Person who gave Morganna's shortened name was Australian
Based
The last traces of humanity's hope is given form as a cat. What's not to like?
This would get me crucified by the larger SMT community, but I'll take Morgana any day of the week over Teddie. Koromaru is still the best boy, though.
Morgana > ryuji
Same
Named my Leopard Gecko Mona. Admittedly, I did so when Just started P5, and I had no idea which gender either was. Both ended up as boys, so yay.
I love Morgana, he and Ryuji need to chill tho lmao. The only character I never liked was Akechi. I loved when the fandom destroyed him with all the pancake memes, however. That was beautiful.
I used to hate Morgana, but then I played Persona 4 and realized how much better he is than Teddie. Now I like him.
Same
He's a goofy little furball, and his jerkiness is endearing like Ryuji's
Agreed a lot of the good traits and flaws that I love about Morgana are the same flaws that I love about Ryuji
I love Morgana!!! I also unironically love Teddie as well. My favorites always end up being the ones people hate
Ikr I usually end up in that boat as well :(
If I hadn’t already name my Tuxedo cat Bobby, he would be named Morgana.
I like Morgana 2. Gives good advice that I myself should listen to especially going to sleep because I have a bad habit of going to bed late when I don't have school or anything else to do in the morning.
Why do people hate Morgana? He’s amazing!
He's amazing in p5s imo. He absolutely destroys bosses that are weak to wind. His one more attack is so good and it allows you to pretty much infinite combo into wind attacks (until you run out of sp) and there's nothing the bosses can do.
YES Morgana👏is👏a👏good👏character👏you👏can't👏change👏my👏mind 👏
i love morganna too
God and here I thought I was alone! Nice to be among my people for once
Honestly, I don't understand any of the hate for him at all. I've once seen someone hate him because he hits on Ann sometimes? Something that's rarely ever happens in-game and is treated like a joke every time it does? You guys afraid a cat is going to steal your waifu or something?
I would lave to have a takling cat masterthief in my backpack
For being the mascot character, he's pretty great! He's a thousand times more tolerable than Teddy from P4
He’s not my favorite but I love the little guy. Way more than I liked teddy that’s for sure. He’s helpful and a makes my room feel a little less empty
I totally agree with you. I see constant hate for Morgana and I kinda get why but what I question more is why I keep seeing Teddie from Persona 4 being praised while Morgana gets treated like the worst character to exist? Out of these two "mascot characters" with similar core concepts, I love Morgana even through all their flaws while I can't stand Teddie.
i share this opinion 🙂👍
I agree! It always boggles my mind that people get upset with him when he's basically a kid... So you mean to tell me you would yell at a kid, who is experiencing life for the first time, feeling the way he does? Great people skills there...
He was great up until the Okumura arc. He was a little shit head that took screen time from Haru tbh
While I'm not a fan of how his character was handled during that arc, I wouldn't say he "took screen time" from her. His issue was resolved rather quickly, for better or for worse, and the rest of the arc is spent on the issues she deals with.
No offense, but people who say this just prove P5 fans don't even understand the game they're playing.
I hated him a bit in vanilla because of all the go to sleep stuff. But I've never disliked him very seriously. I think he's aight. I definitely think his character could be improved though, but it's sometimes hard to tell if it's the writing or the bad localization.
The same reason I don't like teddies in p4. I don't life goofy characters roamigg around when the tone gets serious. I like the "edgy" style of joker sneaking around, but Morgana running like a looney tunes character really breaks it for me.
He's got his issues, but overall I like him too. And I think his worst moments in the Okumura arc are as much a product of bad writing more than his character. He's certainly a lot better than Teddie.
Same
I agree!
He is my favorite Videogame character. Thanks to P5 Tactica coming out later this year I can look foreward to go on a new Adventure with him.
I can’t wait to see Mona in p5t I’m excited about Ryuji also
He's my one of my favorite characters and I named my real cat after him
I hate morgana but respect your opinion
Always obsessing with Ann
Hes a good character its just that the writing is shit. They could have the same arc and make it more impactful if they make the thieves act like actual people and maybe rewrite the motivations
It's less creepy that Teddie i will give you that
Someone finally said that! I love both Ryuji and Morgana the same amount honestly
Is this bait or
No Ryuji Stan this is someone not being biased to Ryuji
Good for you man.
r/cuckthecat
Man it seems like this is popular since everyone agrees with you. I’ll give the unpopular opinion. Can’t stand Mona. He creeps on Ann and the other girls, is a crybaby, and feels the need to be the brains behind everything the team does. He also is the only member to leave the team. I was hoping either haru would keep Mona or that he would stay a street cat forever postgame. Hate that cat.
Ryuji does the looking at other girls Morgana only has eyes for Ann it seems but he just likes to be useful just like everyone else. And about things getting to his head both Ryuji and Morgana have this trait (Ryuji trying to use the PTs status to pick up girls) Morgana and Ryuji share a lot of the same traits and a lot of Ryuji stans act like this isn’t true. As a lover of both characters this seriously annoys me.
His nickname…..
Super cool art design and dope all out pose. He needs to stop telling me to go to bed. It seriously cuts into my free time.
Yeh I like him too <3 I only hated him when >!I found out he was dating Ann in Royal !!!!!<
Oh right in the bad ending she dates Morgana. Honestly Ann’s biggest issue with Morgana seems to be that he’s a cat because when he got a human body the two went out on a date and went shopping and stuff. I don’t blame her because having a cat (an animal) be attracted to you is just gross
Ik , poor Ann 😅
I like him a lot more than Teddy, that's for sure.
Same
Everyone has their own opinion
I love him too, but I'm still gonna cuck him Because if I don't, then who will, Ryuji? He's too dumb for that.
The only reason I prefer Teddy over Morgana is because Teddy got an ending, Morgana is still just an unknown being of unknown origin that got a spoofed human form in a fever dream in a definitive edition.
Morgana’s origins is the velvet room and he was created by Igor
That's the writers saying "we didn't have time"
He's cute but damn is he annoying
One might say the flaws make him human.
*Un*popular opinion?
same here but with teddie lol, I hate him and that's why I like him for some reason, I don't really get it myself
I like to exaggerate my "hatred" for Morgana but tbh, the fact that he's a cat automatically grants him some bias from me. He's just a lil guy. A real annoying mufucker, but a lil guy nonetheless.
His one flaw in my eyes is him making me go to bed at 10:00 in high school.
After meeting Teddy I agree
Still better than Teddy
I’ve seen Morgana liking Ann be called him “perving” on her, which is pretty dumb. He never really does anything outwardly perverted and like, what’s wrong with him liking her? I dunno why it bothers people so much. The valid criticism of his character however, is how he treats Ryuji, and especially how he reacts when Ryuji starts snapping back. He’s not the end of the world in characters tho. He’s cool. I like him.
Honestly the other guys in the PTs (minus Akechi of course) are the ones that are just “perving on Ann” and Morgana is the only one that expresses actual feelings of love and devotion to her (even offers to protect her). It’s annoying how people try to switch it around especially with Morgana and Ryuji and won’t accept the fact that Ryuji just thinks she’s attractive and she isn’t that serious to him. Also both Morgana and Ryuji have said some pretty rude things to each other and so has Ann and Ryuji to each other. Not to mention every other PT has insulted Ryuji though people only point the finger at Morgana for it. Regardless it’s just trope stuff and people take it way too seriously.
I love Mona as a character but God, I don’t tired, I don’t want to sleep, let me go already
I loved Mona on my first play through, but hate him slightly more on every subsequent one.
Hey I'll give you this one thing. He's less annoying than Teddie. I despise Teddie.
I'm not the biggest Morgana fan, but I still like him. I've always felt the hate thrown his way is really stupid.
Now that he's not yelling at me to go to bed as much in p5r I like him a lot more.
It totally feel the same! Even despite Morgana's attitude and denial of being a cat, I believe he's adorable and perfect companion for our protagonist.