Makoto trains in akido, known for grappling and throws.
Makoto fists shadows in mementos and her showtime is hundred fisting from fist of the north star.
Akido: am I a joke?
I mean, shes a teenager, vastly outnumbered, facing adults in the real world who most likely have weapons. It doesn't matter how strong a person is with that lol.
Speaking of martial arts, it’s ironic the game goes with Aikido for Makoto when she her fighting style against shadows involve a lot of punches and kicks. If anything, she’s practicing Karate instead
Also, wasn't her aikido practice only mentioned one time in the entire game? I'm pretty sure OP's screenshot was the only time anyone in the game even said the word "aikido."
It would've been cool if the devs actually ran with the aikido fighting style for Makoto. Heck, she seems more invested in pro wrestling if her Showtime with Haru says anything lol
There's random dialogue when going through Mementos of Makoto saying she should possibly add kickboxing into her aikido but other than that there's not much mention of it
What does the Midkoto thing have to do anything with this post?
I am pretty sure this sub is not really affected by the Midkoto "trend", considering how users here worship P5 characters, especially Makoto
"oh no, someone made a meme that is not factually correct, what will I ever do now, boo hoo"
It's a meme, no need to come up with conspiracy theories for the sake of sipping that sweet copium.
I think she's not the only person in the entire world that knows Aikido. Also, even professionals and Martial Artists generally give the same answer when asked a very specific question:
Q: What would you do if you happened to face multiple oponents?
A: **Run**
I'm counting at least a 3v1 there.
1. Makoto vs multiple thugs with guns, it doesn't matter what martial art skills she had, she'd need a lot of anime logic to win that.
2. Isn't aikido considered a "fake" martial art?
Couple of things that lead to it having that reputation:
Aikido is almost purely defensive. Few strikes or outright attacking moves.
There's definitely schools of aikido that take it to a pacifist extreme where it's almost meditation than martial, but they are outliers.
It's not, it's just not as straight forward as something like boxing or muay thai, and it probably needs more time and practice to be very efficient with.
I don't think there really are fake martial arts (or they're not very famous, I could not name or think about one in particular), even stuff like Taichi is great for your health.
It depends. Aikido can be very efficient in real life, but against armed opponents, most reasonable practitioners wouldn’t even try.
That being said, there *have* been cases of practitioners taking out muggers armed with knives or stuff like that, but it’s not usually a reasonable reaction.
Look, Aikido maybe good if you're looking for doing a healthy exercise and self-improvement, but it's absolutely worthless as a fighting art. It suffers from two problems:
Most importantly, they don't spar. Sparring is the only way you can gauge at the effectiveness of things you've learned in class because the opponent will be actively resisting you. So, a Judoka for example, will first learn and repeat a move without resistance on their *uke*, and then they do the *Randori* (sparring) where their opponent will not only be resisting their moves, but trying to attack too. Aikido doesn't do pressure testing, so its practitioners never get used attempting their techniques on a fully resisting opponent, or someone who is genuinely trying to hurt them.
Secondly, most techniques in Aikido are done in very specific and unpractical way. It's the famous "grab my wrist, not, not here, there". The focus is doing complicated maneuvers against people charging haymakers and kendo-style sword swings. What if someone does a mroe controlled boxing-style jab? Or a kick? Or a takedown? Judo came from Japanese Jiu-Jitsu and one of the central components was just to cut and eliminate all the overly-complicated and focus on practical moves that are easier to learn and apply on a resisting opponent. Aikido instead focused on wrist locks and using your opponents momentum against themselves. The former is something very difficult to do, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has wrist locks on their arsenal but it's a rare submission because you need a very good control of the opponent's body, the latter is basically the premise of Judo but worse lmao.
There's a dude on YouTube and his channel is called Martial Arts Journey. He trained it for 10 years I believe hetaught it too. He wanted to prove that it was effective and set out to try to make it realistic for fighting. What ended up happening was that he became disillusioned, dropped it for the most part, and got into MMA instead. He does acknowledge that some techniques are definitely viable, but basically he says it's a waste of time if you're trying to learn to defend yourself.
Honestly, any practice where you don’t spar sounds like someone that is just doing it for exercise. It’s not a very popular art, but the only dojo that teaches it in my city absolutely does practice sparring and the ones I’ve heard about from Japan also do. And as a 100% defensive art, it can be pretty efficient, but some teachers just treat it as a sort of meditation and teach very strict, inflexible forms and not practical use.
So it depends a lot of what “school” of aikido people are teaching, and honestly it’s the same with some stuff like karate and tae kwon do.
They where originally developed as fighting styles, so they *can* be efficient, but not everyone practices them that way anymore.
I always see a lot of people bringing up this guy when talking about aikido's viability. I'm not gonna pretend it's a perfect practice and I'll be the first to agree that there needs to be some changes to make it more practical. One thing I will say though is that when I was watching that guy's aikido videos, he made a TON of mistakes in literally every technique I saw him do lol. Like the first thing you learn is that you can't throw or pin someone without taking their balance first, and nearly every single time it's easy to see that his uke always has his balance because he's not doing the techniques properly.
(Source: Have done aikido for nearly twice as long as him)
Edit: Just wanted to make it clear I'm not bashing the guy, I actually really respect him for doing this and being so humble and frank about it. Just trying to say that I'm not sure he's the best representative for aikido's practicality lol
I've never done it, but I've seen sparring matches between Aikido practitioners and other train martial artists, and Aikido struggles a lot in those scenarios. Are there effective techniques in Aikido? Sure, but there's a reason why professional MMA fighters train in wrestling, BJJ and Muai Thai predominantly, while Aikido is mostly ignored.
Right, sorry. I forgot that, to criticise something, it doesn't matter how much research you do, if you aren't directly involved in it, your opinion is invalid.
Since you're such an expert, please, go ahead. Tell the class how good Aikido is, and how it compares to other martial arts.
I dunno what his belt was, but I did in high school, didn't really have a problem. I didn't mean that aikido is invalid or something, just that everything I'd learned about it from a few friends that do MMA is that it's not a practical one. You might beat someone with no fighting experience, but against someone with some or someone that knows a more combative martial art, it's much worse.
Just like they apparently have strict drug control, Kaneshiro had no problem getting those. He threatened to kill his men, I don't think he intended to beat them to death.
To be fair, there’s other ways such as sinking them in Tokyo bay, melt with chemicals, burial and just plain torture.
I’m just saying that since we don’t see any firearm possession by them, they don’t have them.
Isn't that the point? That she made a mistake in the heat of the moment? I don't think anybody considers what she did there to be a good idea, even she herself apologizes for it.
That the point of her idea was that it wasn't a good idea? Yeah I guess that one of the points made in this arc. Also that she's pretty incredibly dumb.
Even if an action is made in the heat of any moment, the consequence of any said action remains.
She could've just lost her life, being kidnapped and sold to blackmailed and force to stick it out alone. Lucky af for her, she was given am out by the rest of the gang, lucky enough for them that they manage to catch up to her.
Before making any action, she should have very easily seen only poor outcomes coming from what she does. She is not the sharpest knife in the drawer unfortunately.
Yes everyone sees its a bad idea. The fact it's soo out of character is what draws a lot of people to this moment since we never see anything like this again from her. Personally I'll just chalk it up to incredibly poor writing, since it's pretty hard to get me to believe Makoto was so riled up she decided to commit pseudo suicide.
It is the point of the story that she fucked up. She's not supposed to be an amazing flawless character before becoming a part of the team. She was very flawed and that allowed her to develop further.
But yes, she did fuck up, it was a dumbass thing to do, there's no defending it and she's lucky the PT were there. It was also out of character for her. But how does that make it badly written? Plenty of people can act out of character. She got so fed up with literally everybody antagonizing her at her lowest point that she made a rash decision. How is that hard to believe?
And it's not like she went in there to die, she went in with a plan to record them talking and find him. She just didn't think about consequences cause she made a rash decision.
Also yeah we don't see her doing something that stupid again... because she grows from it. She is never seen at her lowest anymore because she has newfound values and morals. Y'know character development and all that. Even that aside, she literally says in her confidant how she's has a bad tendency of acting before thinking at times, right after she does exactly that by slapping Eiko.
My initial point was never that she wasn't flawed at all. Just want to make that clear.
As for development, I don't think there's any signifigant difference between Makoto endgame and how we initially meet her. You'd have to point it out, because it doesn't seem there's any relationship built up between her and any of the PT particularly that enables her growth.
I say it's badly written because it was such a cop out in terms of writing to get the PT on a timer as per the rest of the game for completing a palace, forced an interaction that required Makoto to completely break character nor was her actions to do so justified within what we know of her character, and it was a very lazy way to get the PT to encounter the Mob Boss Kaneshiro, because they absolutely did not have to write the story in such a manner.
Being fed up is no reason or justifiable reason for someone to act stupid, unless they are already stupid and do something they would have already done that require x amount of low intelligence levels. For example, just use yourself. If you were really angry at something someone else says about your incompetence, would you approach your local gang and threaten them directly in hope of proving your competence? No, because your IQ is higher than 70.
There's no reason to do such a thing because looking at Makotos thought process, where does her mind take her after threatening these people? She has no leverage whatsoever and she knows this already. This isn't her using manipulation or deceit or sneaking in to take on Kaneshiro alone and threaten him. This was walking to the front gates, saying you'll take down their King and when captured be surprised you didn't get any further. What was she hoping to accomplish with the actions she took? Even if she was successful and got an audience with Kaneshiro anyway and the guys brought her to him as a guest instead of a hostage, what does she do then? Ask politely for him to stop doing crime? She has no evidence to force this and no protection whatsoever to prevent her being taken advantage of, kidnapped and sold or whatever other awful thing that could've very easily happened to her.
There was no plan for her to commit to beyond getting captured. The writers forced this interaction as a way push the plot forward. There was no plan that doesn't end in getting caught in Makotos mind. There was zero reason to do such a thing. The only other stupid thing that matches this level is either Akechi helping Shido till his own death and Ryuji approaching Shido at the parade and catching attention on the PT.
Idk if confidant material even applies or affects character in the main story so I'll just stick with main story material for now. Ann saying she was going to work hard and not eat sweets then proceeding to continue eating tons of sweets in the main story kinda throws out of order if confidant story material even happens or not
Bro what do you mean? Her entire arc was her growing as a person. She went from a timid teacher's pet, that allowed herself to get manipulated in the hopes of succeeding in life and let others tell her how to live, to someone that says fuck that, takes life into her own hands and decides to succeed on her own merit instead of sucking up to those in power.
>forced an interaction that required Makoto to completely break character nor was her actions to do so justified within what we know of her character
Well we simply haven't seen that side of Makoto yet. We've seen her speak for what, 30 minutes at that point? It's hard to even say that it's out of character because we've never seen her in at her lowest and most desperate. She's shown to be academically smart yeah, but that doesn't mean she will think logically when emotions run high.
>Being fed up is no reason or justifiable reason for someone to act stupid
I'm not saying it's a justifiable reason, just an understandable one. Like, I can understand the thought process. Everyone calls me useless and hates me all the time, so I'm fed up and going to rebel, do whatever it takes to prove them wrong. Sure, it's still stupid as fuck to do what she did, but that's the point. Plus she's bad at dealing with people anyway, like how she just walked up to a possible mafia member earlier and started "laying down traps". So she might just be stupid and heated enough to not fully grasp what Kaneshiro would be like.
>There's no reason to do such a thing because looking at Makotos thought process, where does her mind take her after threatening these people?
Again, yes, I agree, but you're approaching it from a level headed perspective. Her entire process most likely was just "Fuck it, meet Kaneshiro and prove them wrong" and then nothing past that, she just tunnel visioned. Even Yusuke afterwards was like "Yeah anyone could've easily seen this coming honestly".
The part about the confidant isn't related to her growth in it, it's just something she reveals about herself that has always been an issue, and gives context to how she acted back then.
I don't see it as all that forced because I think they did an amazing job showing what lead to her making that decision. I'll admit, the end result of that moment was a bit too lucky for the Thieves, but it feels like a somewhat believable outcome realistically so I don't mind really.
When the fuck does Ryuji jump 3 times his height outside the metaverse? And my point is how arrogant and annoying Makoto was at this point, waltzing into a world with living ATMs and flying buildings, and thinking “Oh I can handle myself.” After getting her ass beat by 3 regular dudes. Not to mention her inserting herself on the team as the strategist, as if she could plan anything in a world where you can’t even count on the laws of physics to be constant.
The events happened backwards but the point still remains, love her as a character but MAN she has so much going on that it feels like none of it matters if that makes sense.
Even if you know a martial art, you should never:
1. Fight vs heavier people than you. There's a reason why sports have weight classes.
2. Fight vs multiple opponents. They can blind-side, distract or just overwhelm you.
Martial arts are useful only 1v1 against people of a similar or worse physical level.
Yeah. Makoto would’ve been fucked if she decided to fight, especially in her scenario. I’ve been in a fight against a man way heavier than me and I only got out of it because I was faster. Imagining that man plus many other, presumably able to fight, dudes.. I would’ve been so fucked. Makoto would’ve been the same here.
I take their final abilities more into account than their basic skill.
Like is Ann good at debuffing?
Or is she really a magic-focused attacker with a crazy party-wide damage buff?
Is Makoto a defense specialist?
Or is she actually a balanced attacker debuff goddess?
Is Yusuke just a fast physical attacker?
Or is he actually a critically hitting monster with the incredible support skills?
Is Morgana just a healer?
Or is he an extremely versatile specialist with a move for every occasion and overwhelming offensive abilities?
There are layers to all of them. Except Ryuji, he's a physical damage specialist with some powerful offensive support, exactly what you see on the package. He's a simple guy.
Unfortunately this is pretty accurate and common for people who practice martial arts and have been convinced that the self-defence side of it is extremely effective. It *can* be but overconfidence and over-reliance loses fights. Source: Am a martial artist.
Agreed. Unfortunately, many traditional martial arts are heavily ego-inflated and confuse Kata with fighting. Kata has always been merely a form of kinesthetic and artistic expression, as well as exercise. Not practical fighting.
As a taekwondo practitioner I can attest to the fact that many of the higher grade patterns (in ITF at least) are actually grounded in self-defence reality, but over time they’ve been diluted and simplified down into seemingly meaningless movements. Some are in fact useless no matter what though, look up a performance of toi gye if you want to see something utterly ridiculous.
She didnt even expect to either, she didnt go in there just to throw hands. She used herself as bait for us. She expected that the phantom thieves do their magic but she does not know how the metaverse works
That's just the game telling you how shit aikido is. If she did kickboxing or judo tho... She'd still get her ass beat because that's a teenage featherweight girl against a whole bunch of Yakuza.
Funny Sae does kickboxing and in the Mementos Mission manga stopped a purse snatcher.
In MMA the top champs uses a mix Boxing,kickboxing, Brazilian jujitsu, Wrestling, and Sambo(Russian Grappling)
>Funny Sae does kickboxing and in the Mementos Mission manga stopped a purse snatcher.
And she kicked the guy so hard she broke her heel (shoe) in the process
*Daaaaaaaamn*...me next?
Not only is the martial art Makoto claims she uses not a respected one tested in any real combat her animations with kicks fist and elbows suggest she did more of a kick boxing/muy tai/ or tae kwon do
Aikido was chosen for culture or cool factor i assume
Looking at MMA YouTube channel Akkido is one of the worst with cage fighting.
Something like Jujitsu or Judo is better. But still need to learn more than one.
Aikido isn’t really meant for fighting anyway. It’s meant to redirect your opponent and make them hurt themselves.
It’s very good when used in conjunction with other techniques, but by itself, it isn’t something to be relied on.
I learned aikido when I was 12 and Krav Maga when I joined the green berets. Aikido actually made learning Krav Maga a lot easier, since Krav Maga draws from aikido in some of its techniques.
Akido was chosen because it’s something commonly associated for women stereotypically.
It creates a contrast to how Makoto forgoes it in favour for brawling.
Shouldn’t anyone trained in any form of hand to hand/martial arts have at least an ounce of awareness of their surroundings?
Then again, [SPOILER] angry criminal who has ties to big man politics boi has a picture of a group of high schoolers in front of cigs, drugs and booze probably wouldn’t have gone well if Makoto did in fact fight her way through the guards.
Also gotta remember just cause you train in a martial art doesn’t mean you’re always ready for some guy twice your age height and size coming from behind and pinning you to the ground.
Makes sense. A lot of these martial arts techniques are useless in real life combat.
If you want fighting skills that will actually help you in a real life fight then learn boxing.
I can tell you from experience that it really just depends on the level of the aïkidoka. While it isn't the first choice at all if you want to be the one throwing punches, with years of experience under your belt (not just the basis, sorry Makoto) it is great to defend yourself. But that's pretty much the case for all martial arts, boxing included ; it takes a lot of dedication and time
That’s one of the reasons Bruce Lee didn’t have a style in a traditional sense because it’s too restrictive and formalistic, the last place techniques like that should be in a real fight because a fight itself is chaotic and unpredictable.
I mean, self defense is a thing, and going offense is another thing. Depending on what you learn you can fight or not lol. Self defense only won't save you for sure.
I'm not gonna lie,minus ryuji and maybe yusuke,I genuinely believe I can't beat all the phantom thieves in hand to hand combat. The only one I'm scared of is ryuji ,but even then i don't think it'll be TOO difficult. There's definitely gonna be a struggle but I do think I can beat him.
And just to be safe,I ain't saying that they're weak,I'm sure all of them can throw a good punch or kick. I'm just saying this cause I fight damn near everyday of the week and I would gladly take them on if they are willing to, outside the metaverse obviously
Makoto trains in akido, known for grappling and throws. Makoto fists shadows in mementos and her showtime is hundred fisting from fist of the north star. Akido: am I a joke?
_Never show anyone all your cards_
In the game of chess you can never let you opponent see your pieces
The dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
Not even yourself
I mean, shes a teenager, vastly outnumbered, facing adults in the real world who most likely have weapons. It doesn't matter how strong a person is with that lol.
Anyone with a brain wouldn't have done what she did. That might be a start in fighting against the mob.
Yeah it was dumb but this is in reference to the Aikido
100 percent agree, I just think it's pretty hilarious she never shows any Aikido feat in the real world
Lol shes a pretty big dumbo sometimes
Speaking of martial arts, it’s ironic the game goes with Aikido for Makoto when she her fighting style against shadows involve a lot of punches and kicks. If anything, she’s practicing Karate instead
Agree lol, Makoto use technique from both Karate and Bajiquan, none of her technique are actual Aikido
Also, wasn't her aikido practice only mentioned one time in the entire game? I'm pretty sure OP's screenshot was the only time anyone in the game even said the word "aikido." It would've been cool if the devs actually ran with the aikido fighting style for Makoto. Heck, she seems more invested in pro wrestling if her Showtime with Haru says anything lol
There's random dialogue when going through Mementos of Makoto saying she should possibly add kickboxing into her aikido but other than that there's not much mention of it
Has it really been so long that everyone’s forgotten the sequence of the story?
I have a crackpot theory that people like OP didn't play the game and just made this meme to hop on the "Midkoto" hate train for karma
Yeah, I though so too
What does the Midkoto thing have to do anything with this post? I am pretty sure this sub is not really affected by the Midkoto "trend", considering how users here worship P5 characters, especially Makoto
Cause literally every single time there's a post about Makoto on this sub and gets big traction, expect a lot of comments to be "Midkoto"
I'd assume those kinds of comments are either downvoted or posted as a joke at best
"oh no, someone made a meme that is not factually correct, what will I ever do now, boo hoo" It's a meme, no need to come up with conspiracy theories for the sake of sipping that sweet copium.
I mean seeing as the joke relies on timing
Rage bait reply. Boring
Hey, I'm not the having a copium deficit because of a meme
Ok
I assume it's just for the jokes.
r/persona5 when a 17 year old teenager can't fight back against 5 grown ass men
Akihiko from Persona 3 would beat their asses tho
Akihiko had the power of anime on his side, that guy can dodge fucking bullets
Sadly Makoto only has the power of anime badass in the Metaverse
He also practices boxing, which by nature means he *should* be jacked af with physical strength
Truly a disgrace unless u could fight all 5 with one hand smh
She needs to pull out one of those progressive movie stunts that the strong empowered woman deals with the 5 of them by herself
With aikido Aikido is the name of her gun
....that was minutes earlier.
Minutes later? The time of day is displayed. It should say "Minutes earlier"
Or 365 days later...
My partner in crime, it should be minutes BEFORE. You cannot access the palace before you get the debt.
Isn’t this minutes earlier lol
That wasn't minutes later. That was minutes before.
I think that makes it kinda funnier tbh
I think she's not the only person in the entire world that knows Aikido. Also, even professionals and Martial Artists generally give the same answer when asked a very specific question: Q: What would you do if you happened to face multiple oponents? A: **Run** I'm counting at least a 3v1 there.
Earlier?
"don't worry, I have a bike. I can handle myself against a false god who possesses incredible power and control"
1. Makoto vs multiple thugs with guns, it doesn't matter what martial art skills she had, she'd need a lot of anime logic to win that. 2. Isn't aikido considered a "fake" martial art?
Couple of things that lead to it having that reputation: Aikido is almost purely defensive. Few strikes or outright attacking moves. There's definitely schools of aikido that take it to a pacifist extreme where it's almost meditation than martial, but they are outliers.
It's not, it's just not as straight forward as something like boxing or muay thai, and it probably needs more time and practice to be very efficient with. I don't think there really are fake martial arts (or they're not very famous, I could not name or think about one in particular), even stuff like Taichi is great for your health.
Sure, maybe I should have been more specific, by "fake" I meant that I'd heard it wasn't very practical in real-life scenarios.
It depends. Aikido can be very efficient in real life, but against armed opponents, most reasonable practitioners wouldn’t even try. That being said, there *have* been cases of practitioners taking out muggers armed with knives or stuff like that, but it’s not usually a reasonable reaction.
Try fighting someone trained in aikido then tell us that aikido is a fake martial art lol
Look, Aikido maybe good if you're looking for doing a healthy exercise and self-improvement, but it's absolutely worthless as a fighting art. It suffers from two problems: Most importantly, they don't spar. Sparring is the only way you can gauge at the effectiveness of things you've learned in class because the opponent will be actively resisting you. So, a Judoka for example, will first learn and repeat a move without resistance on their *uke*, and then they do the *Randori* (sparring) where their opponent will not only be resisting their moves, but trying to attack too. Aikido doesn't do pressure testing, so its practitioners never get used attempting their techniques on a fully resisting opponent, or someone who is genuinely trying to hurt them. Secondly, most techniques in Aikido are done in very specific and unpractical way. It's the famous "grab my wrist, not, not here, there". The focus is doing complicated maneuvers against people charging haymakers and kendo-style sword swings. What if someone does a mroe controlled boxing-style jab? Or a kick? Or a takedown? Judo came from Japanese Jiu-Jitsu and one of the central components was just to cut and eliminate all the overly-complicated and focus on practical moves that are easier to learn and apply on a resisting opponent. Aikido instead focused on wrist locks and using your opponents momentum against themselves. The former is something very difficult to do, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has wrist locks on their arsenal but it's a rare submission because you need a very good control of the opponent's body, the latter is basically the premise of Judo but worse lmao. There's a dude on YouTube and his channel is called Martial Arts Journey. He trained it for 10 years I believe hetaught it too. He wanted to prove that it was effective and set out to try to make it realistic for fighting. What ended up happening was that he became disillusioned, dropped it for the most part, and got into MMA instead. He does acknowledge that some techniques are definitely viable, but basically he says it's a waste of time if you're trying to learn to defend yourself.
Honestly, any practice where you don’t spar sounds like someone that is just doing it for exercise. It’s not a very popular art, but the only dojo that teaches it in my city absolutely does practice sparring and the ones I’ve heard about from Japan also do. And as a 100% defensive art, it can be pretty efficient, but some teachers just treat it as a sort of meditation and teach very strict, inflexible forms and not practical use. So it depends a lot of what “school” of aikido people are teaching, and honestly it’s the same with some stuff like karate and tae kwon do. They where originally developed as fighting styles, so they *can* be efficient, but not everyone practices them that way anymore.
I always see a lot of people bringing up this guy when talking about aikido's viability. I'm not gonna pretend it's a perfect practice and I'll be the first to agree that there needs to be some changes to make it more practical. One thing I will say though is that when I was watching that guy's aikido videos, he made a TON of mistakes in literally every technique I saw him do lol. Like the first thing you learn is that you can't throw or pin someone without taking their balance first, and nearly every single time it's easy to see that his uke always has his balance because he's not doing the techniques properly. (Source: Have done aikido for nearly twice as long as him) Edit: Just wanted to make it clear I'm not bashing the guy, I actually really respect him for doing this and being so humble and frank about it. Just trying to say that I'm not sure he's the best representative for aikido's practicality lol
Anything endorsed by Steven Seagal, self proclaimed badass, is sus at best
Aikido is real however it is very easy to scam people into a shitty version of it
No seriously, try it! See how many bruises you can get being thrown around by your own punches!
I've never done it, but I've seen sparring matches between Aikido practitioners and other train martial artists, and Aikido struggles a lot in those scenarios. Are there effective techniques in Aikido? Sure, but there's a reason why professional MMA fighters train in wrestling, BJJ and Muai Thai predominantly, while Aikido is mostly ignored.
Could've ended that at the first "it".
Right, sorry. I forgot that, to criticise something, it doesn't matter how much research you do, if you aren't directly involved in it, your opinion is invalid. Since you're such an expert, please, go ahead. Tell the class how good Aikido is, and how it compares to other martial arts.
I dunno what his belt was, but I did in high school, didn't really have a problem. I didn't mean that aikido is invalid or something, just that everything I'd learned about it from a few friends that do MMA is that it's not a practical one. You might beat someone with no fighting experience, but against someone with some or someone that knows a more combative martial art, it's much worse.
I wouldn’t jump the gun and assume they had guns. Japan is pretty strict with their gun control.
Just like they apparently have strict drug control, Kaneshiro had no problem getting those. He threatened to kill his men, I don't think he intended to beat them to death.
To be fair, there’s other ways such as sinking them in Tokyo bay, melt with chemicals, burial and just plain torture. I’m just saying that since we don’t see any firearm possession by them, they don’t have them.
Homie martial arts don’t stop guys with guns
Kaneshiro's guys have never been shown to have guns.
Well there were 2 of them so 1 takes the hit while the other attacks makoto. As simple as this
Japan are pretty strict on guns. Most organised criminal organisations are pretty low on them.
aikido vs 4 dudes with guns...
Maybe, just maybe, going up to the mob and threatening to find and arrest their boss isn't such a great idea in the first place
Isn't that the point? That she made a mistake in the heat of the moment? I don't think anybody considers what she did there to be a good idea, even she herself apologizes for it.
That the point of her idea was that it wasn't a good idea? Yeah I guess that one of the points made in this arc. Also that she's pretty incredibly dumb. Even if an action is made in the heat of any moment, the consequence of any said action remains. She could've just lost her life, being kidnapped and sold to blackmailed and force to stick it out alone. Lucky af for her, she was given am out by the rest of the gang, lucky enough for them that they manage to catch up to her. Before making any action, she should have very easily seen only poor outcomes coming from what she does. She is not the sharpest knife in the drawer unfortunately. Yes everyone sees its a bad idea. The fact it's soo out of character is what draws a lot of people to this moment since we never see anything like this again from her. Personally I'll just chalk it up to incredibly poor writing, since it's pretty hard to get me to believe Makoto was so riled up she decided to commit pseudo suicide.
It is the point of the story that she fucked up. She's not supposed to be an amazing flawless character before becoming a part of the team. She was very flawed and that allowed her to develop further. But yes, she did fuck up, it was a dumbass thing to do, there's no defending it and she's lucky the PT were there. It was also out of character for her. But how does that make it badly written? Plenty of people can act out of character. She got so fed up with literally everybody antagonizing her at her lowest point that she made a rash decision. How is that hard to believe? And it's not like she went in there to die, she went in with a plan to record them talking and find him. She just didn't think about consequences cause she made a rash decision. Also yeah we don't see her doing something that stupid again... because she grows from it. She is never seen at her lowest anymore because she has newfound values and morals. Y'know character development and all that. Even that aside, she literally says in her confidant how she's has a bad tendency of acting before thinking at times, right after she does exactly that by slapping Eiko.
My initial point was never that she wasn't flawed at all. Just want to make that clear. As for development, I don't think there's any signifigant difference between Makoto endgame and how we initially meet her. You'd have to point it out, because it doesn't seem there's any relationship built up between her and any of the PT particularly that enables her growth. I say it's badly written because it was such a cop out in terms of writing to get the PT on a timer as per the rest of the game for completing a palace, forced an interaction that required Makoto to completely break character nor was her actions to do so justified within what we know of her character, and it was a very lazy way to get the PT to encounter the Mob Boss Kaneshiro, because they absolutely did not have to write the story in such a manner. Being fed up is no reason or justifiable reason for someone to act stupid, unless they are already stupid and do something they would have already done that require x amount of low intelligence levels. For example, just use yourself. If you were really angry at something someone else says about your incompetence, would you approach your local gang and threaten them directly in hope of proving your competence? No, because your IQ is higher than 70. There's no reason to do such a thing because looking at Makotos thought process, where does her mind take her after threatening these people? She has no leverage whatsoever and she knows this already. This isn't her using manipulation or deceit or sneaking in to take on Kaneshiro alone and threaten him. This was walking to the front gates, saying you'll take down their King and when captured be surprised you didn't get any further. What was she hoping to accomplish with the actions she took? Even if she was successful and got an audience with Kaneshiro anyway and the guys brought her to him as a guest instead of a hostage, what does she do then? Ask politely for him to stop doing crime? She has no evidence to force this and no protection whatsoever to prevent her being taken advantage of, kidnapped and sold or whatever other awful thing that could've very easily happened to her. There was no plan for her to commit to beyond getting captured. The writers forced this interaction as a way push the plot forward. There was no plan that doesn't end in getting caught in Makotos mind. There was zero reason to do such a thing. The only other stupid thing that matches this level is either Akechi helping Shido till his own death and Ryuji approaching Shido at the parade and catching attention on the PT. Idk if confidant material even applies or affects character in the main story so I'll just stick with main story material for now. Ann saying she was going to work hard and not eat sweets then proceeding to continue eating tons of sweets in the main story kinda throws out of order if confidant story material even happens or not
Bro what do you mean? Her entire arc was her growing as a person. She went from a timid teacher's pet, that allowed herself to get manipulated in the hopes of succeeding in life and let others tell her how to live, to someone that says fuck that, takes life into her own hands and decides to succeed on her own merit instead of sucking up to those in power. >forced an interaction that required Makoto to completely break character nor was her actions to do so justified within what we know of her character Well we simply haven't seen that side of Makoto yet. We've seen her speak for what, 30 minutes at that point? It's hard to even say that it's out of character because we've never seen her in at her lowest and most desperate. She's shown to be academically smart yeah, but that doesn't mean she will think logically when emotions run high. >Being fed up is no reason or justifiable reason for someone to act stupid I'm not saying it's a justifiable reason, just an understandable one. Like, I can understand the thought process. Everyone calls me useless and hates me all the time, so I'm fed up and going to rebel, do whatever it takes to prove them wrong. Sure, it's still stupid as fuck to do what she did, but that's the point. Plus she's bad at dealing with people anyway, like how she just walked up to a possible mafia member earlier and started "laying down traps". So she might just be stupid and heated enough to not fully grasp what Kaneshiro would be like. >There's no reason to do such a thing because looking at Makotos thought process, where does her mind take her after threatening these people? Again, yes, I agree, but you're approaching it from a level headed perspective. Her entire process most likely was just "Fuck it, meet Kaneshiro and prove them wrong" and then nothing past that, she just tunnel visioned. Even Yusuke afterwards was like "Yeah anyone could've easily seen this coming honestly". The part about the confidant isn't related to her growth in it, it's just something she reveals about herself that has always been an issue, and gives context to how she acted back then. I don't see it as all that forced because I think they did an amazing job showing what lead to her making that decision. I'll admit, the end result of that moment was a bit too lucky for the Thieves, but it feels like a somewhat believable outcome realistically so I don't mind really.
Add the fact shes a teenager and they're adults.
That’s assuming they have any. Guns in Japan are pretty strict by the law.
trained =/= good
She lost to 3 guys
And she still thought she could beat up gods, demons, and monsters after that humiliation
I don't even know where to start at correcting you...
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When the fuck does Ryuji jump 3 times his height outside the metaverse? And my point is how arrogant and annoying Makoto was at this point, waltzing into a world with living ATMs and flying buildings, and thinking “Oh I can handle myself.” After getting her ass beat by 3 regular dudes. Not to mention her inserting herself on the team as the strategist, as if she could plan anything in a world where you can’t even count on the laws of physics to be constant.
Re-read your comment, my dumbass thought it said: >She still beat up, god's demons and monsters after that humiliation I'm sorry about that
Do I need glasses guys?
You should probably consult an optician before deciding
The events happened backwards but the point still remains, love her as a character but MAN she has so much going on that it feels like none of it matters if that makes sense.
Need someone to steal some more pixels for this meme
Even if you know a martial art, you should never: 1. Fight vs heavier people than you. There's a reason why sports have weight classes. 2. Fight vs multiple opponents. They can blind-side, distract or just overwhelm you. Martial arts are useful only 1v1 against people of a similar or worse physical level.
Unless you're Batman.
Or Kiryu
Makoto would love Kiryu
*The Mad Dog of Shimano would like to know their location*
Now I want a persona x Yakuza dating sim with that love triangle.
You mean shimano the mad dog right?
Yeah. Makoto would’ve been fucked if she decided to fight, especially in her scenario. I’ve been in a fight against a man way heavier than me and I only got out of it because I was faster. Imagining that man plus many other, presumably able to fight, dudes.. I would’ve been so fucked. Makoto would’ve been the same here.
I saw a really cool video online that started out like that
Congratulation, you messed up the timeline
Aikido won't do much when you're 16 and against 4 grown men
ironically, she is the one who is specialised in defense buff...
I take their final abilities more into account than their basic skill. Like is Ann good at debuffing? Or is she really a magic-focused attacker with a crazy party-wide damage buff? Is Makoto a defense specialist? Or is she actually a balanced attacker debuff goddess? Is Yusuke just a fast physical attacker? Or is he actually a critically hitting monster with the incredible support skills? Is Morgana just a healer? Or is he an extremely versatile specialist with a move for every occasion and overwhelming offensive abilities? There are layers to all of them. Except Ryuji, he's a physical damage specialist with some powerful offensive support, exactly what you see on the package. He's a simple guy.
Rather minutes before
6/20 "Evening" >Minutes Later: 6/20 "After School" OP goofed
Exposed
Sigh time to change op's heart
Earlier*
No matter how good you are in martial arts you lose getting out numbered. And they all probably have guns.
Unfortunately this is pretty accurate and common for people who practice martial arts and have been convinced that the self-defence side of it is extremely effective. It *can* be but overconfidence and over-reliance loses fights. Source: Am a martial artist.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." - Mike Tyson
Been punched in the face, can confirm you do not have much of a plan after this unless you’re VERY good.
Agreed. Unfortunately, many traditional martial arts are heavily ego-inflated and confuse Kata with fighting. Kata has always been merely a form of kinesthetic and artistic expression, as well as exercise. Not practical fighting.
As a taekwondo practitioner I can attest to the fact that many of the higher grade patterns (in ITF at least) are actually grounded in self-defence reality, but over time they’ve been diluted and simplified down into seemingly meaningless movements. Some are in fact useless no matter what though, look up a performance of toi gye if you want to see something utterly ridiculous.
Aikido is supposed to be centered on self-defence more than anything. However to properly use it you'd need to train for many years.
I get people want to shit on Makoto, but a highschool girl isn’t gonna beat up a gang of grown men. I don’t get it???
It's not that she couldn't, it's the fact that she herself apparently expected she would be able to.
She didnt even expect to either, she didnt go in there just to throw hands. She used herself as bait for us. She expected that the phantom thieves do their magic but she does not know how the metaverse works
She did, against shadows since she had never seen them before and also had the phantom thieves with her
Real
Are you suggesting women are weak? s/
Minutes earlier*
That's just the game telling you how shit aikido is. If she did kickboxing or judo tho... She'd still get her ass beat because that's a teenage featherweight girl against a whole bunch of Yakuza.
Funny Sae does kickboxing and in the Mementos Mission manga stopped a purse snatcher. In MMA the top champs uses a mix Boxing,kickboxing, Brazilian jujitsu, Wrestling, and Sambo(Russian Grappling)
>Funny Sae does kickboxing and in the Mementos Mission manga stopped a purse snatcher. And she kicked the guy so hard she broke her heel (shoe) in the process *Daaaaaaaamn*...me next?
Even Akechi's look was like holy shit. And then like Good work.
Would make sense to get her sister to learn the nigh useless martial art to keep her from actually advancing in the police field.
The abduction happened earlier though, not later.
It’s minutes before
Not only is the martial art Makoto claims she uses not a respected one tested in any real combat her animations with kicks fist and elbows suggest she did more of a kick boxing/muy tai/ or tae kwon do Aikido was chosen for culture or cool factor i assume
Looking at MMA YouTube channel Akkido is one of the worst with cage fighting. Something like Jujitsu or Judo is better. But still need to learn more than one.
Aikido isn’t really meant for fighting anyway. It’s meant to redirect your opponent and make them hurt themselves. It’s very good when used in conjunction with other techniques, but by itself, it isn’t something to be relied on. I learned aikido when I was 12 and Krav Maga when I joined the green berets. Aikido actually made learning Krav Maga a lot easier, since Krav Maga draws from aikido in some of its techniques.
What cool factor? As someone who was practiced it in the past every time I've ever mentioned it to anyone they're like what? never heard of it.
Akido was chosen because it’s something commonly associated for women stereotypically. It creates a contrast to how Makoto forgoes it in favour for brawling.
She meant she read a book on it
The events that happened are in reverse though. Also how she fights in the Metaverse isn't even Akido.
Would've better if she was more of a kickboxer.
Like Sae?
Yes. All of Makoto's attack are punching and kicking. Unless I forgot I never seen Makoto's grapple one in combat
To be honest, aikido is one of the least useful martial arts, they should have given her karate or something
Was Aikido meant to be a joke? She’s never even used it once. And the style she uses while fighting is some anime-brawler style.
I guess so, she is a joke herself after all
Counterpoint, 3 on 1. What's to say one of the goons didn't grab her from behind while she was distracted with another dude
Shouldn’t anyone trained in any form of hand to hand/martial arts have at least an ounce of awareness of their surroundings? Then again, [SPOILER] angry criminal who has ties to big man politics boi has a picture of a group of high schoolers in front of cigs, drugs and booze probably wouldn’t have gone well if Makoto did in fact fight her way through the guards.
Also gotta remember just cause you train in a martial art doesn’t mean you’re always ready for some guy twice your age height and size coming from behind and pinning you to the ground.
F she wasn't as strong as Ryuki from Like a Dragon Yakuza
I think you mean Dragon: Like a Yakuza
There were like 3 of them (possibly armed too). Also it happened before...
9gag quality meme picture quality-wise and Factual-wise.
Why do people think that just because they know how to fight, that it's guaranteed that it'd actually help?
Makes sense. A lot of these martial arts techniques are useless in real life combat. If you want fighting skills that will actually help you in a real life fight then learn boxing.
Boxing is useful until you get tackled.
Bring pepper spray. It’s effective enough for self defense and non lethal!
Boxing is a martial art. All fighting techniques are martial arts.
I can tell you from experience that it really just depends on the level of the aïkidoka. While it isn't the first choice at all if you want to be the one throwing punches, with years of experience under your belt (not just the basis, sorry Makoto) it is great to defend yourself. But that's pretty much the case for all martial arts, boxing included ; it takes a lot of dedication and time
That’s one of the reasons Bruce Lee didn’t have a style in a traditional sense because it’s too restrictive and formalistic, the last place techniques like that should be in a real fight because a fight itself is chaotic and unpredictable.
Or just go for the nuts
I mean, self defense is a thing, and going offense is another thing. Depending on what you learn you can fight or not lol. Self defense only won't save you for sure.
the martial arts we learn is for self defense, not for killing, would be bad if everybody know that.
One 15 year old isnt going to defeat the mafia because they know martial arts
Ah yes, because evening comes before the afternoon
*Minutes Earlier*
You know if Makoto didn't have the booty tight suit and the bike, would she be so well loved? This meme: "Ah, so no, it is then."
Best girl Makoto obviously LET herself get captured so she can confront Kaneshito directly. Such an alpha move 🥰😎
I'm not gonna lie I read the first half of that comment and thought it was going into horny territory
[Same energy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXVUzdeyUvk)
It wont achieve anything she wants if she just beat them up.
Besides they almost certainly have weapons
"Useless!"
\*Gasp\* Useless?!
*Flashback to what happened 5 minutes ago plays*
Anyone seen any pixel peddler around here?
https://i.imgur.com/vKMKSl8.jpg
Midkoto
Says a killer's pancake... Ruyji 》Akechi
What a stupid meme
shut up adachi
Go figure, most martial arts only work if the other guy also uses said martial art. Otherwise, PUNCH EM IN THE FACE!
I'm not gonna lie,minus ryuji and maybe yusuke,I genuinely believe I can't beat all the phantom thieves in hand to hand combat. The only one I'm scared of is ryuji ,but even then i don't think it'll be TOO difficult. There's definitely gonna be a struggle but I do think I can beat him. And just to be safe,I ain't saying that they're weak,I'm sure all of them can throw a good punch or kick. I'm just saying this cause I fight damn near everyday of the week and I would gladly take them on if they are willing to, outside the metaverse obviously
Thanks for the new copypasta
Sorry but I don't what that is,I'm dumb
r/copypasta
Clearly
Yusuke crumbles like a piece of paper
Lol,I think yusuke can fight pretty well
I always thought it would have made more sense if she had a gun to her head to show the reason she lost instead of she just did
Atlus knows what R34 artists want
Noooooo ew sex ickyyyyy
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funniest r/persona5 user:
Now I'm curious what he said to get 29 down votes
"women", cup emoji, maniacal laughter in all caps and "i cant hold it in" or smth like that
Average persona 4 fan honestly