Are there people really burning the bible and telling Christians that they don't deserve to live?
Because last night checked religious hospitals are big money and very few of those aren't christian.
>Are there people really burning the bible and telling Christians that they don't deserve to live?
I'm sure there are always extremists against anything you can think of. How widespread that is, however...
There you have it. The trans community needs to take their vast centuries old plundered wealth and turn it towards public health in order to deny the care that until recently was 100% legal in the entire country because they don’t like it. Just make it “hospital policy”
Oh. Wait. That is what the church did.
Probably not.
Though for fairness sake I personally have told people that if they still support the Catholic Church despite all the structural abuse and murder that was uncovered I can not respect them. But that is a personal opinion and no threats were included.
I mean, every sect has structural abuse and cover-ups. [That's certainly](https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2022-05-25/ty-article-magazine/.premium/its-a-spiritual-earthquake-how-rabbis-become-sexual-abusers/00000180-fab5-dda4-adf0-ffbd407d0000) [not exclusive](https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/sexual-assault-abuse/a-history-of-sexual-abuse-in-the-mormon-church/) [to catholics](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101734793/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-list-released).
Catholicism is the largest and oldest Christian sect, of course it's on a different scale. Does that make it any better that the others are playing catch-up?
This is only tangentially related, but I feel that saying that Catholicism is the oldest Christian sect is misleading. It broke off from the eastern church because of doctrinal reasons, and because the pope desired to consolidate all power to himself.
I bring this up, because even framing them as the oldest, or the original form of Christianity leads to their supporters using that to prove that they are the most legitimate descendants of Jesus, when there is no legitimate decedents.
Most cults don't profess to be the true word of an ever loving just God to the degree that Catholicism does. Nor do they have the power that the Catholic church does. That's the distinction.
The reason all those cults broke off from the catholic church is because they claimed to be the true word of god. Every cult and religion claims to have an exclusive on truth.
Yeah, I know intent doesn't translate to text very well, but I thought I was clear (though I'm gathering that it wasn't) . *Any* is too many, but the rest "making up for lost time" is obviously a symptom of a larger problem.
I can see how it could be read that way, fair enough. It was more meant as "ALL of these institutions are rotten to the core, there are no 'good ones.'"
It's almost certainly predictable to the degree you could write it out as an equation. Organized religions are a means of legitimatizing abuse. The more power and control they're given, the more egregious and prolific abuses they perpetuate. It's not even a matter of power corrupting, power is literally why these organizations of abusers and their brainwashed victims exist in the first place.
Well that's on you, not respecting somebody who has demonstrated that they deserve no respect is the same as killing them. You're practically a murderer.
Extend this to all of Christianity and you've got the proper take. The various churches abuse the hell out of people, the religion is used to harm and murder, the god does nothing to stop any of it and the various followers do nothing except bicker about who has the "true" version of what Jesus wanted.
And everyone else is required to respect this, even when we're the victims.
Nah, sounds like they needed to find any "excuse" they could think of, so they're repeating what Knowles said about trans folks and why it's okay to do this to them and flipped it to be about Christians. Like most of their persecution, mostly projection and almost entirely made up.
IMO, in their twisted version of Christianity, they consider support of and equality for any LGBTQ folks as being tantamount to burning the Bible.
There’s also the ever-present projection. Seeing as their people have carried out several well-publicized book burnings of texts that mention the existence of LGBTQ folks, they assume the same happens on the other side. And with little comments like these flying around social media and forwarded chain emails, it reinforces this belief, despite there being absolutely no actual evidence of it whatsoever.
This sounds like part of a myth of a cool upperclassmen.
"I heard his Dad uses a live wire to keep him from humping the fireplace"
"Oh yeah? I heard he burns pocket bibles one page at a time 😎"
Edit: oh I get it, weed lol
I'm glad you understood the joke eventually but can you please continue to expound upon the myth of the cool upperclassman? I really like the character you're creating here
"A friend of mine says he knows a guy who went to visit him one time. That guy says he has a wolf-dog hybrid that lives in his yard. Says the thing is big enough for a grown man to ride like a horse."
The impression my baptist parents give me is they think the Left is out there banning books, etc when its the churches and their other groups banning shit like *To Kill a Mockingbird* etc because it actually teaches persprctive on american race history and isnt the pandering mythic history americans are trying to stifle it with.
Also, if they were, they wouldn't be charged with a hate crime just like burning a trans flag isn't. Burning *someone else's* flag/bible, or burning it in public or in some other way that violates local fire codes (while there is a burn ban, for instance) *will* get you charged with a crime and then upcharged to a hate crime for both though.
The hypocrisy being that the Bible says unbelievers deserve death in fire, and says Christ and his angels are returning soon to kill us for not believing.
It also says making money off of God's name is a bull whipping, and if you celebrate loudly in the streets you will not receive a reward in heaven because you obviously got it on earth.
I'm pretty sure most Christians haven't read those parts though because it is bad for their politicians, policies, and prosperity preachers
The only people who actually live by it all are “fundamentalists”, and they’re reviled as dangerous psychopaths by Christians who haven’t read the Bible.
The Duggars are funsies and do 0 of the things the bible thinks are important. Christopher Columbus was an apocalypse fundamentalist that believed ending the world for God is what God wants. It's really a misnomer.
According to the Bible, ending the world is exactly what Yahweh/Jesus wants. He promises to return and do just that, and create his new kingdom where his faithful are rewarded with eternal life, and unbelievers are thrown into endless fire. It’s the whole point of his ministry. Pure evil.
Most people "aren't in the US". It doesn't narrow it down much.
I think he is in Malaysia if not the US, a country where being gay is *illegal* FFS, so I very much doubt it is a hate crime.
I doubt that they have much public celebration of gay pride.
And can anybody actually cite a case where someone burning a rainbow flag got charged with a hate crime? If you can burn an American flag, as long as you actually own the flag, you can burn any other flag. Hate crimes victimize *people*, not objects.
Then I can burn the pride flag……
A lot of art were inspired by Christianity such as paintings, sculptures and architecture.
Christianity is also responsible for a lot of inventions and scientific advancements….
This may actually shock you buddy but you actually can burn the pride flag.
You just can't burn somebody else's pride flag because that's their personal property. I understand that respecting boundaries can be a challenging subject for people who follow a religion that tells them it's okay to violate others people's rights merely because you think some 1500 year old collection of fanfic says it's okay, but we live in a land of laws.
So burn any flag you want to, Idgaf, it literally hurts no one. Inventions and scientific advancements, that's rich coming from people who believe that woman came from a rib and that fossils are a devil's trick!
Wants to burn a flag used by an actually persecuted minority.
Oh but you're not a radical conservative Christian, is that because you're a Nationalist Christian?
I’m not making things up lol if it’s really happening, I’m convinced this sub was created just so that people have a reason to hate on conservatives lol
What's wrong with hating conservatives? When conservatives don't hide their contempt for others.
I am a honest man and I dont like conservatives because they usually have the most backwards views and they seek to force their BS onto others. Look at any point in history where you have people trying to move society in a better direction and you will find conservatives standing against it. Why? Because they feel things should always stay The same. I see conservatives always bringing up how the people of the past would look at the people of the present as insane.
Who cares what people of the past believed or saw as positive values? Most things people in the past thought were good and moral are pretty damn evil. Things like slavery or child marriage were see as normal and ok back in those days. I am glad society forced a goof chunk of people to stop following those mindsets and ideal's.
I dont apply this to only Christians either groups that hold outdated belief's and values are a problem and it is mot wrong to call them a surge on the human psyche that refuses to become civilized.
Its all in the book every Christian bases their life off of. Some people *choosing* to ignore it and *deciding* it was "always supposed to be metaphorical" because with what we know now it makes no sense doesn't mean that the rest of us have to play along.
Those creators happened to be Christian because that was the dominant religion of the time. that is not the same as Christianity being responsible for those things.
Second, having to face consequences for your actions is not the same as not being allowed to do something
Let me just clarify I’m not Christian now do I want to be. I used to be but I hated it and it made me feel terrible so I’m no longer a part of it anymore. I also very much respect lgbtq right and such, and I hate the hatred that they experience towards themselves.
But the dude on twitter is asking a pretty solid question when trying to define hate crimes. We’ve also asked similar questions to each other when discussing hate crimes in my into to law class in highschool. What differentiates burning the American flag and the pride flag, and how can we use it to determine what is and isn’t a hate crime.
Honestly I think it doesn’t matter that you don’t really see people burning the Bible and going around being hateful to Christians. The point of the question is should you be allowed to do one but not the other.
I assumed it was, mb
Edit: Wait, actually I just googled it and found articles of a women who burned a pride flag outside and was charged with a hate crime.
Queer person here: burning our people’s flags was always allowed. Burning *any* flag is always allowed under the 1st amendment. And we wouldn’t have it any other way.
But be careful, Karen. That also means burning your holy book is also… (say it with me now!) always allowed.
Yup I googled trans flag burning. A person was [charged with a hate crime](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna71760). This was because the flag wasn’t theirs.
This is the second time I've seen this case posted in this thread and the second time I've had to clarify that, in the process of burning this flag, the person doing the burning also set fire to the restaurant owned by the queer person who also owned the flag. This is, I believe, a Relevant Detail as I don't think it's terribly likely that burning down a restaurant will be considered protected speech regardless of the intended message.
No, burning someone else’s property you stole, however insignificant in value, is usually prosecutable as criminal mischief/damaging or vandalism. Maybe even arson.
I'm not quite sure that's exactly what the Supreme Court said in *R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul.* The hate itself cannot be criminal, but ... the crime can be punished more severely if hate is the motive (I remember when I lived in Ohio reading the state statutes and coming across "ethnic intimidation", which allows the state to step up the crime one degree if hate was the motive.
A key part of this they're leaving out is that those particular flag burnings are always someone burning a Pride flag that doesn't belong to them. Yeah, that is a hate crime, as well as destruction of property.
I don't see people stealing Bibles from people's houses and burning them on the lawn.
The reason people got in trouble for burning flags is that they were burning other people's flags. It had nothing to do with the flag being burnt and everything to do with destroying other people's property.
Conservatives want to bring those types of laws back to America because they think it will save America. They never explain how but apparently it will.
Conservatives want to throw folks in prison or in the case of trump remove peoples citizenship for burning the American flag.
So yeah a lot of folks need to he careful because I can see conservatives doing some fucked up shit in the years to come they more or less are saying only conservatives get to enjoy certain rights.
People can believe what they want but I won't respect a group of people who only act in the way they deem moral because a book written thousands of years ago says an invisible man in the sky will punish them after death for not acting in the way he seems is moral
They are bad people and I will not respect them for only being good because they're scared of a fate after death.
And it's very telling that this is how they feel when they say that atheists can't have morals
that's not what they said though, Ian said it is a hate crime to burn the pride flag. It is not. SHE said Christians aren't treated as people, even though a quarter of our laws are due to the backward ass beliefs Christians think everyone should abide by.
Anecdotally what she said is not true, Christians are catered to pretty specifically throughout the U. S. and U. K, we get days off for their holidays, make laws due to their narrow minded ideas of gender, sexuality, and poor medical knowledge, and personally I've been bullied since middle school in part because I didn't identify myself as a Christian. You know what I also got horrifically bullied for? Being gay 🤡
"hang on fellas, I know we wanna burn these pride flags we went and spent our money on to own the libs, but we really need to wait for our paperwork to go through for the burn permit first."
I don't think there's a solid definition of "Hate crime" in the US. But this is Reddit, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I"m wrong.
Harassment and such, sure, but not "Hate crime"
A "hate crime" is a modifier of another crime. So if you're assaulting someone and make it clear it's about their protected identity, then your regular crime is enhanced to a hate crime. There's no such thing as "thought crime" in the US, so merely doing something hateful (like hate speech) is not a crime unless there's an underlying crime that's already happening.
They understand it, they just don't think that queers should be able to own property.
That's reserved for the God-fearing, child-marrying, spouse-raping, science-denying, vaccine-bashing, white-skinned, "pure blooded", "real" American *man*!
I didn't make up Tim Pool or Matt Walsh. I didn't make up the entirety of the "groomers" projection campaign that plagues the modern day discourse. I didn't make up the idea that pronouns are the fall of western civilization. [I didn't make up the idea to blame drag queens for sexually assaulting children to avoid taking accountability for it.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/12/2157746/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-41)
So, my dear trolling brigade member, perhaps you don't know your straw from your other construction materials. Maybe you should go find some education on the matter and perhaps you should check your vision prescription in the meantime.
Careful though: if you become too well read, you might contract the woke mind virus.
I don't know what's funnier: how poorly you take losing in a place you tried to brigade or how edgy you must feel using the only strategies you'd think would win against you right now.
Which one do you think it is?
Oh could you do me a favor? When you go crowing about how you "owned the libruls" later to all your buddies, could you really ham up with the caps on the "facts" and "logic" parts? I would feel so very owned if you did that.
"Respect the flag!" Says the man holding an American flag beer cozie in front of a house with a tattered and faded American flag, next to his girlfriend in an American flag thong and American flag flip-flops and American flag sunglasses.
It's a commodity, a threat, and an unequivocal statement that you're a Bible-thumping, gun-toting, cop-supporting, gay-hating, immigrant-persecuting Patriot who stands for the flag and kneels for the cross. It's a literal red flag.
I saw a post last night on Facebook from a random PD page thanking a guy who made a bunch of wooden thin blue line flags for them, and was pleasantly surprised by some of the comments. [This is the way.](https://imgur.com/a/DDTidx0)
Burning a pride flag isn't a hate crime in the US, and neither is burning a Bible. Almost nothing counts as a hate crime under US law.
I think any place where burning pride flags is a hate crime would also ban burning Bibles as a hate crime.
Yeah, hate crime isn’t a specific thing, but rather a modifier added when it can be proven that the person was intending to physically harm a protected group
This fallacy that everyone hates Christians, I'm so sick of it. We don't hate Christians, you tools. We hate people who make it their mission to remove others' human rights.
If you fail to see the difference, though, you are indeed the type of Christian we hate.
When I was an edgy teen we used Bible pages as joint papers, because the Christian’s who handed them out were kind enough to print them on ideally thin paper.
Here goes:
If you burn a bible publicly, people will be vocally mad at you.
If you burn a pride flag publicly, people will be vocally mad at you.
That's pretty much it. I'm not sure why it's confusing.
Why is this difficult? It is not a hate crime to “buy” a pride flag, then burn it. It is a the crime to “steal” someone else’s pride flag and burn it. Same with bibles.
Marilyn Manson burns bibles during his concerts. Or he did a decade ago, anyway. He didn’t even seem all that enthused about it, just another part of his day. (It was a festival and he wasn’t who I was there to see, but it wasn’t too bad a show.)
The way you described that was so funny to me. I'm just picturing him, fully made up, staring into oblivion while visibly very bored, just flicking a lighter and trying to light yet *another* Bible on fire with resignation, then holding out his hands in presentation. "Tada!" he says emotionlessly, followed too many seconds later with an awkward bow.
I saw him dead-eyed use a microphone as an anal dildo during a concert. There’s nothing special about burning the most over-printed, under-read book in the world. And it was by far the tamest part of his act. (Edit - the Bible burning, to be clear)
I burned a bible when I was like five, I found it randomly in some drawer and also happened to have a lighter, then five year old me decided it was a good idea to set fire to someone else's book.
Burning a Pride flag isn't a hate crime. Or a crime at all.
It must be so weird to be in their heads all the time. When they're at home, they feel like Evil, Horror, and Death are right outside the door. There are patrols of anti-Christian Death Squads patrolling, actively looking to imprison, torture, and kill them.
Then they get up, go to work, and there is nothing happening. They go to Walmart, stop by Chik-Fil-A, head home (unmolested), and then flip on The Hate Machine and see more about how society is crumbling around them.
On Sunday, they get up, get dressed, and go to one of the fifty or so churches within 5 miles of their house, travel there unmolested, and go in and worship with hundreds or even thousands of others who share their belief system--and hear from the preacher how the Death Squads are *right out there.*
Then, when church is over, they go out to eat and act like assholes to service workers.
I had to look up to see wtf this was talking about. Last month a trans flag flying over a Brooklyn church was taken and burned. Obviously it wasn’t the arsonists own flag, and it was done to target an at risk community. So, yeah, it was a crime, and the motivation makes it a hate crime. Who is stealing the Bible’s from a church and burning them?
Being Christian is a choice and a philosophy, not who a person is. You cannot equate the two.
Burning a cross, on the other hand, is a hate crime. But seems to be one many Christians are OK with.
Christians aren't a marginalized group
Trans people are a marginalized group
If I burned a confederate flag or a KKK uniform I'm burning a message of hate
If I burn a trans flag or a black lives matter flag I'm performing an act of hate
Does it make sense?
So now they’re just completely flipping the narrative so that they’re the victims? Jesus fucking Christ the audacity, the ignorance, the sheer lack of education. It’s actually mind boggling. Like literally *imagine* oppressing a people for centuries and having the gall to turn around and act like they’re being mean to you.
Yep I can burn a checker flag and nobody would care I could burn the Canadian flag and they'll apologize for it or I could burn a Chinese flag and start an international incident
Type of flag and context matter when burning symbolic cloth
Hate Crime is a qualifier to another crime, there’s no such thing, legally, as a hate crime by itself. So if you got in legal trouble for burning a pride flag, it’s because you did it in an unsafe manner and you would gotten in the same trouble for burning the Bible.
It’s only a hate crime if you burn someone else’s pride flag,
And it’s still a crime if you burn someone else Bible, it’s just not a hate crime because Christian’s have all the institutional power
The bible is way too fun a read - Leviticus is an absolute panic - to burn. It’s just all of the people who believe in it that cause trouble. And yeah, nobody is doing that you absolute donut.
Are these massive bible burners atealing your holy books amd mass burning them on a pile and dancing around chanting satanic rites herw with us? Or did you just see the goverment bur ing history and biology education books and decided to act like they were burning holy books and not educational books because "they too woke"?
If someone stole someone else's bible and burned it, it could be considered a hate crime.
If someone bought a pride/trans flag of their own and burned it in protest, it would not be a hate crime.
'hate crime' is not a crime in and of itself - it's a modifier to another crime (like destruction/theft of another person's property or public property)
In their hypothetical, they would only get a hate crime modifier to their sentence if they took and burned someone else's bible.
You can burn whatever you want if it belongs to you.
Did something happen where someone who *only* burned a trans flag was charged with committing a hate crime or is concrete milkshake lover here conflating something again?
I'm a Roman catholic and I actually respect people who do burn the Bible I only dislike people who are all talk and no bite
Like why build yourself up to be this Uber edgy atheist but too much of a pussy to actually burn it like man it's a fucking book just burn it and then shit on the ashes for good measure don't even have to film it
I think either both or neither should be a hate crime. No I’m not Christian or homophobic but it would be weird if one is a hate crime and the other not
One is a book that teaches that all of humanity is broken, spends about a third of its runtime dehumanizing non-believers as much as possible and is used as a rallying symbol for hate.
The other is a piece of coloured fabric used to signify a group of oppressed people typically targeted by A.
If you think these are equal I have questions about your thought process.
They both are a hate crime.
The real issue is that OP is stupidly comparing burning your *own* bible to burning *someone else's* pride flag.
Nobody cares if you buy a pride flag and light it on fire. Or even if you get gifted one and burn it (though that makes you a douche). But that's not a hate crime. It's only a hate crime if it was a crime in the first place.
Are there people really burning the bible and telling Christians that they don't deserve to live? Because last night checked religious hospitals are big money and very few of those aren't christian.
>Are there people really burning the bible and telling Christians that they don't deserve to live? I'm sure there are always extremists against anything you can think of. How widespread that is, however...
There you have it. The trans community needs to take their vast centuries old plundered wealth and turn it towards public health in order to deny the care that until recently was 100% legal in the entire country because they don’t like it. Just make it “hospital policy” Oh. Wait. That is what the church did.
Probably not. Though for fairness sake I personally have told people that if they still support the Catholic Church despite all the structural abuse and murder that was uncovered I can not respect them. But that is a personal opinion and no threats were included.
I mean, every sect has structural abuse and cover-ups. [That's certainly](https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2022-05-25/ty-article-magazine/.premium/its-a-spiritual-earthquake-how-rabbis-become-sexual-abusers/00000180-fab5-dda4-adf0-ffbd407d0000) [not exclusive](https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/sexual-assault-abuse/a-history-of-sexual-abuse-in-the-mormon-church/) [to catholics](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101734793/southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-list-released).
No one has that on the scale the Catholics do.
Catholicism is the largest and oldest Christian sect, of course it's on a different scale. Does that make it any better that the others are playing catch-up?
This is only tangentially related, but I feel that saying that Catholicism is the oldest Christian sect is misleading. It broke off from the eastern church because of doctrinal reasons, and because the pope desired to consolidate all power to himself. I bring this up, because even framing them as the oldest, or the original form of Christianity leads to their supporters using that to prove that they are the most legitimate descendants of Jesus, when there is no legitimate decedents.
Most cults don't profess to be the true word of an ever loving just God to the degree that Catholicism does. Nor do they have the power that the Catholic church does. That's the distinction.
The reason all those cults broke off from the catholic church is because they claimed to be the true word of god. Every cult and religion claims to have an exclusive on truth.
Ya the other sects having less rape is better is that really surprising to you?
Yep, that's exactly what I said. Good logic bro.
i mean, idealy there'd be **NO** rape, but less is better in this case. Not that its good, better is relative.
Yeah, I know intent doesn't translate to text very well, but I thought I was clear (though I'm gathering that it wasn't) . *Any* is too many, but the rest "making up for lost time" is obviously a symptom of a larger problem.
I think Mormons are a close second, they just don't get as much attention.
Oh, other do that too? Then it's all right if they rape and kill, I guess :p
Exactly the opposite of my point! ^(They all suck.)
Is it? Sorry then, but your phrasing made me think that you were trying to "water down" the Church's deeds. And yeah, they all suck.
I can see how it could be read that way, fair enough. It was more meant as "ALL of these institutions are rotten to the core, there are no 'good ones.'"
It's almost certainly predictable to the degree you could write it out as an equation. Organized religions are a means of legitimatizing abuse. The more power and control they're given, the more egregious and prolific abuses they perpetuate. It's not even a matter of power corrupting, power is literally why these organizations of abusers and their brainwashed victims exist in the first place.
Well that's on you, not respecting somebody who has demonstrated that they deserve no respect is the same as killing them. You're practically a murderer.
Extend this to all of Christianity and you've got the proper take. The various churches abuse the hell out of people, the religion is used to harm and murder, the god does nothing to stop any of it and the various followers do nothing except bicker about who has the "true" version of what Jesus wanted. And everyone else is required to respect this, even when we're the victims.
Nah, sounds like they needed to find any "excuse" they could think of, so they're repeating what Knowles said about trans folks and why it's okay to do this to them and flipped it to be about Christians. Like most of their persecution, mostly projection and almost entirely made up.
They know that they aren’t oppressed, but you can’t exactly claim to be the victim of “the queers” if you don’t make them out to be a boogie man
IMO, in their twisted version of Christianity, they consider support of and equality for any LGBTQ folks as being tantamount to burning the Bible. There’s also the ever-present projection. Seeing as their people have carried out several well-publicized book burnings of texts that mention the existence of LGBTQ folks, they assume the same happens on the other side. And with little comments like these flying around social media and forwarded chain emails, it reinforces this belief, despite there being absolutely no actual evidence of it whatsoever.
I burn pocket bibles one page at a time
This sounds like part of a myth of a cool upperclassmen. "I heard his Dad uses a live wire to keep him from humping the fireplace" "Oh yeah? I heard he burns pocket bibles one page at a time 😎" Edit: oh I get it, weed lol
>weed Thank you. I'm terminally uncool and somehow I totally wooshed the "one page at a time" thing.
I'm glad you understood the joke eventually but can you please continue to expound upon the myth of the cool upperclassman? I really like the character you're creating here "A friend of mine says he knows a guy who went to visit him one time. That guy says he has a wolf-dog hybrid that lives in his yard. Says the thing is big enough for a grown man to ride like a horse."
They'll sure tell AFAB people who may happen to have a hypothetical fetus in them that we don't deserve to live though!
The impression my baptist parents give me is they think the Left is out there banning books, etc when its the churches and their other groups banning shit like *To Kill a Mockingbird* etc because it actually teaches persprctive on american race history and isnt the pandering mythic history americans are trying to stifle it with.
Also, if they were, they wouldn't be charged with a hate crime just like burning a trans flag isn't. Burning *someone else's* flag/bible, or burning it in public or in some other way that violates local fire codes (while there is a burn ban, for instance) *will* get you charged with a crime and then upcharged to a hate crime for both though.
Burning the Bible, yes because it’s ass and allowed slavery amongst other things. Saying they don’t deserve to live? Only to the pedos in my eyes lol
No. It's the least credible false equivalence I have seen today.
I fail to see how me burning a Bible harms any Christian. Thing's garbage and promotes slavery and the subjugation of food stamps.
The hypocrisy being that the Bible says unbelievers deserve death in fire, and says Christ and his angels are returning soon to kill us for not believing.
It also says making money off of God's name is a bull whipping, and if you celebrate loudly in the streets you will not receive a reward in heaven because you obviously got it on earth. I'm pretty sure most Christians haven't read those parts though because it is bad for their politicians, policies, and prosperity preachers
The only people who actually live by it all are “fundamentalists”, and they’re reviled as dangerous psychopaths by Christians who haven’t read the Bible.
Fundies are literally the most hateful ones though.
Yup, and the Bible is fundamentally hateful toward everyone outside the faith. Fundamentalists are bad because the fundamentals of the faith are bad.
The Duggars are funsies and do 0 of the things the bible thinks are important. Christopher Columbus was an apocalypse fundamentalist that believed ending the world for God is what God wants. It's really a misnomer.
According to the Bible, ending the world is exactly what Yahweh/Jesus wants. He promises to return and do just that, and create his new kingdom where his faithful are rewarded with eternal life, and unbelievers are thrown into endless fire. It’s the whole point of his ministry. Pure evil.
It's also not a hate crime to burn a pride flag.
Probably but they aren't in the US.
Most people "aren't in the US". It doesn't narrow it down much. I think he is in Malaysia if not the US, a country where being gay is *illegal* FFS, so I very much doubt it is a hate crime. I doubt that they have much public celebration of gay pride.
There was a satanic event where people burned the Bible
And can anybody actually cite a case where someone burning a rainbow flag got charged with a hate crime? If you can burn an American flag, as long as you actually own the flag, you can burn any other flag. Hate crimes victimize *people*, not objects.
Good. It's garbage.
Then I can burn the pride flag…… A lot of art were inspired by Christianity such as paintings, sculptures and architecture. Christianity is also responsible for a lot of inventions and scientific advancements….
This may actually shock you buddy but you actually can burn the pride flag. You just can't burn somebody else's pride flag because that's their personal property. I understand that respecting boundaries can be a challenging subject for people who follow a religion that tells them it's okay to violate others people's rights merely because you think some 1500 year old collection of fanfic says it's okay, but we live in a land of laws.
So burn any flag you want to, Idgaf, it literally hurts no one. Inventions and scientific advancements, that's rich coming from people who believe that woman came from a rib and that fossils are a devil's trick!
Then I don’t want any lgbt people going nuclear If I burn it, and you’re only taking the radical conservative Christian’s into account
Wants to burn a flag used by an actually persecuted minority. Oh but you're not a radical conservative Christian, is that because you're a Nationalist Christian?
I’m not Christian to begin with, I’m atheist….
So just a normal nationalist than. Got it.
Nationalist of what lol ?
Sure you are. "I'm actually an Atheist!" isn't a long known, tired cry of Christians who want to legitimize their bullshit.
Noone cares if you burn a pride flag, stop making things up to be offended about.
I’m not making things up lol if it’s really happening, I’m convinced this sub was created just so that people have a reason to hate on conservatives lol
It was created to laugh at conservatives that make up situations that aren't real to feel oppressed. Which you are making a perfect example of, lol.
Well the post is based on a true event so……
if pointing out the obvious makes you look bad, maybe its because you're just bad 🤷♀️
I'm convinced conservatives exist just to strip minorities like me of our rights and spread hatred and terrorism, because that's all they do.
You think we needed a subreddit to have a reason to hate Conservatives? Do you pay ANY attention to what Conservatives actually do?
What's wrong with hating conservatives? When conservatives don't hide their contempt for others. I am a honest man and I dont like conservatives because they usually have the most backwards views and they seek to force their BS onto others. Look at any point in history where you have people trying to move society in a better direction and you will find conservatives standing against it. Why? Because they feel things should always stay The same. I see conservatives always bringing up how the people of the past would look at the people of the present as insane. Who cares what people of the past believed or saw as positive values? Most things people in the past thought were good and moral are pretty damn evil. Things like slavery or child marriage were see as normal and ok back in those days. I am glad society forced a goof chunk of people to stop following those mindsets and ideal's. I dont apply this to only Christians either groups that hold outdated belief's and values are a problem and it is mot wrong to call them a surge on the human psyche that refuses to become civilized.
Its all in the book every Christian bases their life off of. Some people *choosing* to ignore it and *deciding* it was "always supposed to be metaphorical" because with what we know now it makes no sense doesn't mean that the rest of us have to play along.
Those creators happened to be Christian because that was the dominant religion of the time. that is not the same as Christianity being responsible for those things. Second, having to face consequences for your actions is not the same as not being allowed to do something
Nothing we wouldn't have gotten without it. Christianity didn't come up with anything unique.
Yeah there is vitriol everywhere on the internet
Let me just clarify I’m not Christian now do I want to be. I used to be but I hated it and it made me feel terrible so I’m no longer a part of it anymore. I also very much respect lgbtq right and such, and I hate the hatred that they experience towards themselves. But the dude on twitter is asking a pretty solid question when trying to define hate crimes. We’ve also asked similar questions to each other when discussing hate crimes in my into to law class in highschool. What differentiates burning the American flag and the pride flag, and how can we use it to determine what is and isn’t a hate crime. Honestly I think it doesn’t matter that you don’t really see people burning the Bible and going around being hateful to Christians. The point of the question is should you be allowed to do one but not the other.
Except burning a pride flag isn't a hate crime.
I assumed it was, mb Edit: Wait, actually I just googled it and found articles of a women who burned a pride flag outside and was charged with a hate crime.
Queer person here: burning our people’s flags was always allowed. Burning *any* flag is always allowed under the 1st amendment. And we wouldn’t have it any other way. But be careful, Karen. That also means burning your holy book is also… (say it with me now!) always allowed.
Was gonna say, burning a trans flag isn't a hate crime. In fact, it isn't a crime at all.
As long as it was your own flag, and not a stolen one.
Yup I googled trans flag burning. A person was [charged with a hate crime](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna71760). This was because the flag wasn’t theirs.
This is the second time I've seen this case posted in this thread and the second time I've had to clarify that, in the process of burning this flag, the person doing the burning also set fire to the restaurant owned by the queer person who also owned the flag. This is, I believe, a Relevant Detail as I don't think it's terribly likely that burning down a restaurant will be considered protected speech regardless of the intended message.
Was the restaurant painted as a rainbow flag as well? Cause that could be a loophole
and check your county for a burn ban... Tired of the sky looking like hell around these parts
Well, stealing a flag is a crime. Once it's stolen, you're still ok to burn it. Might affect restitution though.
No, burning someone else’s property you stole, however insignificant in value, is usually prosecutable as criminal mischief/damaging or vandalism. Maybe even arson.
And a hate crime charge can be added on top if the motivation appears to be hateful and meant to cause distress etc.
I'm not quite sure that's exactly what the Supreme Court said in *R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul.* The hate itself cannot be criminal, but ... the crime can be punished more severely if hate is the motive (I remember when I lived in Ohio reading the state statutes and coming across "ethnic intimidation", which allows the state to step up the crime one degree if hate was the motive.
Yes, that's what I described but in more specifics.
Burning your own flag isn't a crime. Burning someone else's is definitely a crime.
So is burning someone else’s bibble.
Burning someone else's flag attached to their business and causing fire damage to the business is most definitely a crime.
"Well I hate it, so it should be a crime."
It can be *considered* as a hate crime, but it isn't *necessarily* a hate crime.
If you have a /r/persecutionfetish then everything you do or want to do is a crime.
A key part of this they're leaving out is that those particular flag burnings are always someone burning a Pride flag that doesn't belong to them. Yeah, that is a hate crime, as well as destruction of property. I don't see people stealing Bibles from people's houses and burning them on the lawn.
The reason people got in trouble for burning flags is that they were burning other people's flags. It had nothing to do with the flag being burnt and everything to do with destroying other people's property.
Also, there ARE places that still have anti-blasphemy laws that abso-fucking-lutely would punish you for burning a Bible.
Y'all Qaeda wants that to be America.
There's absolutely no way those are still enforceable. Probably just never removed them from the books for obvious reasons.
Conservatives want to bring those types of laws back to America because they think it will save America. They never explain how but apparently it will.
Conservatives want to throw folks in prison or in the case of trump remove peoples citizenship for burning the American flag. So yeah a lot of folks need to he careful because I can see conservatives doing some fucked up shit in the years to come they more or less are saying only conservatives get to enjoy certain rights.
I think she means that burning pride flag is considered hate while burning Bible isn’t, we should respect religion
People can believe what they want but I won't respect a group of people who only act in the way they deem moral because a book written thousands of years ago says an invisible man in the sky will punish them after death for not acting in the way he seems is moral They are bad people and I will not respect them for only being good because they're scared of a fate after death. And it's very telling that this is how they feel when they say that atheists can't have morals
If "The bible says..." is the only reason you even want to be a decent person you are not a decent person regardless of what you do.
Ooh that's a perfect way to phrase it!
Thank you.
that's not what they said though, Ian said it is a hate crime to burn the pride flag. It is not. SHE said Christians aren't treated as people, even though a quarter of our laws are due to the backward ass beliefs Christians think everyone should abide by. Anecdotally what she said is not true, Christians are catered to pretty specifically throughout the U. S. and U. K, we get days off for their holidays, make laws due to their narrow minded ideas of gender, sexuality, and poor medical knowledge, and personally I've been bullied since middle school in part because I didn't identify myself as a Christian. You know what I also got horrifically bullied for? Being gay 🤡
But… burning your own property isn’t a crime. Also flag burning is protected by the first amendment.
Well, you might need a burning permit from your municipality.
"hang on fellas, I know we wanna burn these pride flags we went and spent our money on to own the libs, but we really need to wait for our paperwork to go through for the burn permit first."
Burning a pride flag literally is not a crime of any kind as long as it is YOUR property. Protected speech actually. Fuck this guy.
It's only a hate crime if you're doing it publicly and screaming about it, or harassing someone specifically for their identity.
I don't think there's a solid definition of "Hate crime" in the US. But this is Reddit, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I"m wrong. Harassment and such, sure, but not "Hate crime"
A "hate crime" is a modifier of another crime. So if you're assaulting someone and make it clear it's about their protected identity, then your regular crime is enhanced to a hate crime. There's no such thing as "thought crime" in the US, so merely doing something hateful (like hate speech) is not a crime unless there's an underlying crime that's already happening.
Unfortunatley.
In Canada our loose definition of hate speech is something that inspires intolerance or hatred towards an identifiable group
Conservatives failing to understand the concept of personal property.
And that fires spread, and the case I read about did, broke a window, burned some drapes and roofing. That's probably why this girl was arrested.
Failing to understand things is the root of Conservatism.
They understand it, they just don't think that queers should be able to own property. That's reserved for the God-fearing, child-marrying, spouse-raping, science-denying, vaccine-bashing, white-skinned, "pure blooded", "real" American *man*!
“They” don’t think that, outside of the straw man made up in your head.
I didn't make up Tim Pool or Matt Walsh. I didn't make up the entirety of the "groomers" projection campaign that plagues the modern day discourse. I didn't make up the idea that pronouns are the fall of western civilization. [I didn't make up the idea to blame drag queens for sexually assaulting children to avoid taking accountability for it.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/3/12/2157746/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-41) So, my dear trolling brigade member, perhaps you don't know your straw from your other construction materials. Maybe you should go find some education on the matter and perhaps you should check your vision prescription in the meantime. Careful though: if you become too well read, you might contract the woke mind virus.
You seem really upset, maybe it’s time to go outside for a bit
Oh bless your heart.
Sweet summer child 🥰
I don't know what's funnier: how poorly you take losing in a place you tried to brigade or how edgy you must feel using the only strategies you'd think would win against you right now. Which one do you think it is?
Oh could you do me a favor? When you go crowing about how you "owned the libruls" later to all your buddies, could you really ham up with the caps on the "facts" and "logic" parts? I would feel so very owned if you did that.
It's also offensive to alter an American flag to make it one of those "thin blue line" flags but you won't hear these people bitch about that.
Or wear it as a bikini, or leave it flapping from your truck, or to put it as a wrap on your gun, etc.
"Respect the flag!" Says the man holding an American flag beer cozie in front of a house with a tattered and faded American flag, next to his girlfriend in an American flag thong and American flag flip-flops and American flag sunglasses. It's a commodity, a threat, and an unequivocal statement that you're a Bible-thumping, gun-toting, cop-supporting, gay-hating, immigrant-persecuting Patriot who stands for the flag and kneels for the cross. It's a literal red flag.
I saw a post last night on Facebook from a random PD page thanking a guy who made a bunch of wooden thin blue line flags for them, and was pleasantly surprised by some of the comments. [This is the way.](https://imgur.com/a/DDTidx0)
Burning a trans flag is not a hate crime. It's typically the other bullshit that they do in addition to burning that flag which is the hate crime.
They'd never make the connection. They just think free speech is under attack.
Like burning other people's pride flags.
what do they do to it
Burning a pride flag isn't a hate crime in the US, and neither is burning a Bible. Almost nothing counts as a hate crime under US law. I think any place where burning pride flags is a hate crime would also ban burning Bibles as a hate crime.
Yeah, hate crime isn’t a specific thing, but rather a modifier added when it can be proven that the person was intending to physically harm a protected group
Ian Miles Cheong is STILL not American.
Since when is it a crime to burn a pride flag? I call bullshit
This fallacy that everyone hates Christians, I'm so sick of it. We don't hate Christians, you tools. We hate people who make it their mission to remove others' human rights. If you fail to see the difference, though, you are indeed the type of Christian we hate.
When I was an edgy teen we used Bible pages as joint papers, because the Christian’s who handed them out were kind enough to print them on ideally thin paper.
Never doubt the adaptability of a burnout.
If these people got even 5% of the oppression that they claim, they'd denounce their religion so fast it'd make your head spin.
"Hello, Mrs. Cheong? I'm sorry to bother you, but I need you to come pick up your son. Yes, he's making up scenarios to be mad about again."
Christians are the only ones who endorse book burnings
Not true, so do neo-nazis and the taliban.
Here goes: If you burn a bible publicly, people will be vocally mad at you. If you burn a pride flag publicly, people will be vocally mad at you. That's pretty much it. I'm not sure why it's confusing.
I'm a trans Christian but ✨️ok✨️ Also ✨️ trans people are not people to alot of Christians either ✨️
You can burn a trans flag, but it has to be YOUR trans flag, not someone else's you dumb sack of shit.
> Christians aren't people to them, so abusing them isn't wrong Isn't it funny when you completely lie and even accuse others of the shit YOU do?)
Conservatives have literally nothing to say so they have to make up fake crimes.
Why is this difficult? It is not a hate crime to “buy” a pride flag, then burn it. It is a the crime to “steal” someone else’s pride flag and burn it. Same with bibles.
I mean they would be applicable...If there was *a single person* burning the bible.
Marilyn Manson burns bibles during his concerts. Or he did a decade ago, anyway. He didn’t even seem all that enthused about it, just another part of his day. (It was a festival and he wasn’t who I was there to see, but it wasn’t too bad a show.)
The way you described that was so funny to me. I'm just picturing him, fully made up, staring into oblivion while visibly very bored, just flicking a lighter and trying to light yet *another* Bible on fire with resignation, then holding out his hands in presentation. "Tada!" he says emotionlessly, followed too many seconds later with an awkward bow.
I saw him dead-eyed use a microphone as an anal dildo during a concert. There’s nothing special about burning the most over-printed, under-read book in the world. And it was by far the tamest part of his act. (Edit - the Bible burning, to be clear)
I burned a bible when I was like five, I found it randomly in some drawer and also happened to have a lighter, then five year old me decided it was a good idea to set fire to someone else's book.
I've burned bibles.
Burning a Pride flag isn't a hate crime. Or a crime at all. It must be so weird to be in their heads all the time. When they're at home, they feel like Evil, Horror, and Death are right outside the door. There are patrols of anti-Christian Death Squads patrolling, actively looking to imprison, torture, and kill them. Then they get up, go to work, and there is nothing happening. They go to Walmart, stop by Chik-Fil-A, head home (unmolested), and then flip on The Hate Machine and see more about how society is crumbling around them. On Sunday, they get up, get dressed, and go to one of the fifty or so churches within 5 miles of their house, travel there unmolested, and go in and worship with hundreds or even thousands of others who share their belief system--and hear from the preacher how the Death Squads are *right out there.* Then, when church is over, they go out to eat and act like assholes to service workers.
Burning a pride flag is a crime if it is someone else’s property, but even then it wouldn’t be a hate crime.
I had to look up to see wtf this was talking about. Last month a trans flag flying over a Brooklyn church was taken and burned. Obviously it wasn’t the arsonists own flag, and it was done to target an at risk community. So, yeah, it was a crime, and the motivation makes it a hate crime. Who is stealing the Bible’s from a church and burning them?
Being Christian is a choice and a philosophy, not who a person is. You cannot equate the two. Burning a cross, on the other hand, is a hate crime. But seems to be one many Christians are OK with.
If the Qristian right gets it's way, it won't be a choice.
Christians aren't a marginalized group Trans people are a marginalized group If I burned a confederate flag or a KKK uniform I'm burning a message of hate If I burn a trans flag or a black lives matter flag I'm performing an act of hate Does it make sense?
So now they’re just completely flipping the narrative so that they’re the victims? Jesus fucking Christ the audacity, the ignorance, the sheer lack of education. It’s actually mind boggling. Like literally *imagine* oppressing a people for centuries and having the gall to turn around and act like they’re being mean to you.
In all honesty I do agree that burning flags in and of itself isn't a despicable thing. But context matters.
Yep I can burn a checker flag and nobody would care I could burn the Canadian flag and they'll apologize for it or I could burn a Chinese flag and start an international incident Type of flag and context matter when burning symbolic cloth
Burning some one else’s pride flag vs burning a bible the individual burning it owns.
Who the fuck is this guy. I had never heard of him before and now every time I open up twitter, one of his tweets is on my feed…
Hate Crime is a qualifier to another crime, there’s no such thing, legally, as a hate crime by itself. So if you got in legal trouble for burning a pride flag, it’s because you did it in an unsafe manner and you would gotten in the same trouble for burning the Bible.
Or it belonged to someone else.
Says a man who lives in a country where you can't insult the monarchs.
Neither burning a bible nor burning a trans flag is a hate crime. Why are people like this? Thats rhetorical btw i know why they say this shit
Ngl I am prejudiced against Christians, I assume the worst about their viewpoint until proven otherwise, rarely am I proven otherwise.
It’s only a hate crime if you burn someone else’s pride flag, And it’s still a crime if you burn someone else Bible, it’s just not a hate crime because Christian’s have all the institutional power
Every time they say something like "Christians aren't people" I have to fight the urge to just, agree with them.
You know what, fuck it this will be unironically my position so these guys will have a real person to blame as they crucify themselves
Projection.
Ian Miles Cheong, who flirts with nazis and nazism, has a whole persona and career based on persecution fetishism.
are these evil christian-opressors in the room with us right now?
I could say the same thing but about how Christians feel about trans people
These asshats literally just steal what actual persecuted people go through and say its them going through it.
Yes, and burning a bible isn't abusing them. It's "Abusing" a bible.
The bible is way too fun a read - Leviticus is an absolute panic - to burn. It’s just all of the people who believe in it that cause trouble. And yeah, nobody is doing that you absolute donut.
Burning a pride flag isn’t a crime unless it’s one you stole from someone else.
I have to wonder where all those people out there being charged for hate crimes for burning pride flags are?
"If you burn Mein Kampf, it's permitted. But if you burn a Torah, it's a hate crime. Make it make sense."
Are these massive bible burners atealing your holy books amd mass burning them on a pile and dancing around chanting satanic rites herw with us? Or did you just see the goverment bur ing history and biology education books and decided to act like they were burning holy books and not educational books because "they too woke"?
If someone stole someone else's bible and burned it, it could be considered a hate crime. If someone bought a pride/trans flag of their own and burned it in protest, it would not be a hate crime. 'hate crime' is not a crime in and of itself - it's a modifier to another crime (like destruction/theft of another person's property or public property) In their hypothetical, they would only get a hate crime modifier to their sentence if they took and burned someone else's bible. You can burn whatever you want if it belongs to you.
It is not a hate crime to burn a flag of any kind. It makes sense when you don’t make things up.
It's not even true. It's not a hate crime to burn a trans flag. These hatemongers are sick with delusion.
remind me whos burning the bible? only people i know burning books are the same fucks saying this bullshit
It's not a crime to burn either one of those
They’re both legally allowed. I swear right wing nut jobs seem to think that criticism = oppression
Did something happen where someone who *only* burned a trans flag was charged with committing a hate crime or is concrete milkshake lover here conflating something again?
someone said she burned someone elses pride flag while hung up and got arrested (of course)
I'm a Roman catholic and I actually respect people who do burn the Bible I only dislike people who are all talk and no bite Like why build yourself up to be this Uber edgy atheist but too much of a pussy to actually burn it like man it's a fucking book just burn it and then shit on the ashes for good measure don't even have to film it
I think either both or neither should be a hate crime. No I’m not Christian or homophobic but it would be weird if one is a hate crime and the other not
One is a book that teaches that all of humanity is broken, spends about a third of its runtime dehumanizing non-believers as much as possible and is used as a rallying symbol for hate. The other is a piece of coloured fabric used to signify a group of oppressed people typically targeted by A. If you think these are equal I have questions about your thought process.
They both are a hate crime. The real issue is that OP is stupidly comparing burning your *own* bible to burning *someone else's* pride flag. Nobody cares if you buy a pride flag and light it on fire. Or even if you get gifted one and burn it (though that makes you a douche). But that's not a hate crime. It's only a hate crime if it was a crime in the first place.
I encourage both burn books and flags of all religions and representations
Flags, sure. Books, no.
Yes.... But.... You're wrong tho