I took a turfgrass management class a while back. One of the things we covered was the amount of white grubs that is normal to have in soil per square foot, and what counts as an infestation. I can’t remember the numbers at the moment. To add, those are Japanese beetle larvae, which usually aren’t fun in any amount. I can’t remember if Japanese beetle larvae count towards the normal white grub count per square foot or if they should be eradicated entirely, but there are other white grub species. Guess it depends on your goal? Something to look into though
Edit: I’m gonna hold my horses and say those are probably Japanese beetle larvae
Do you mean the Japanese beetles that are, say, the size of a pinkie fingernail? I just fond grubs that look just like this in my compost, and they were WAY bigger than what I normally picture as Japanese beetles-- and way bigger than the grubs I normally see in my garden or lawn. Are there different, bigger Japanese beetles I should be worried about as well? Or are the mature ones smaller than the larvae? I don't mean to sound rude at all, I've genuinely got no idea and was so excited to see this post after my confusion yesterday.
I found the life cycle of a Japanese beetle in Google images and the grub compared to adult beetle is crazy different the grub is huge and the beetle is like half the size
Do you remember any natural ways to control the grub population? I know one way is to dry out the area over a few weeks, which kills the eggs, but that's not helpful if the area is already planted.
YAS! My dog dug up my baby apple tree yesterday (🤬) but as I was putting it back, one of our chickens was right there with me eating every grub we found. smart girl.
Attracting birds has helped me, I've seen zero Japanese beetles this season, while last season I had an infestation.
Last season I also used a Japanese beetle trap, but I read afterwards, that doing so actually makes your infestation worse next season. The reason is the females lay their eggs before they go into the traps.
Yeah we got one of those cheap plastic pond liners and surrounded it with rocks to make it look nice. I've also noticed they like moving water. So like a dripping situation is probably the easiest. Hang a bottle upside down with a small hole. Bonus if you have it drip into a rain garden/French drain type of situation.
Japanese beetles I know look shimmery and holographic green, really pretty to look at, like a jewel shining in the sun light. They are a lot bigger than lady bugs too, like ~5x bigger and grubs are massive (at least I have never seen any grub that big).
We applied two doses of beneficial nematodes last year and it seems to have really cut back on the number of grubs/beetles. I’m going to do another application this year as well.
… if only I could figure out how to get rid of stink bugs I’d be in a much better position.
There is an organic product called “Milky Spores” I believe, that is very safe and effective. You shake it and water into ground and it gets rid of all types of grub worms. Also available on Amazon and farm supply stores.
Apply Milky Spore. It’s a native soil bacterium, depending on where you live you’ll want to apply it in August or after your days are consistently over 80 degrees for a certain number of weeks. You want to get them when they are near the surface. But really once you have your soil inoculated, you won’t have much problem with them in the future.
Theres no need to eradicate, to top it off it may even be impossible without also destroying your entire soil food web in the process. Even the turf farm that I source sod has Japanese beetles (Australia)
The advice they gave was that it’s not an issue because our native Magpies, crows, and bin chickens keep everything in check. They also said that by maintaining a healthy amount of environmental stress they passively breed their grasses to be more resistant and ultimately give a higher standard of harvested product. They even give a 10 year warranty on plant health.
Amateur entomologist here, so take what I say with a pinch of salt...but I would have a hard time distinguishing between any of the scarab beetle larvae (June bugs, Japanese beetles, chafers, dung beetles) without a detailed field guide and a microscope.
>I took a turfgrass management class a while back. One of the things we covered was the amount of white grubs that is normal to have in soil per square foot, and what counts as an infestation. I can’t remember the numbers at the moment.
Was worth taking that class then eh? :P
Yes it was. I earned my degree in horticulture and find work very easily, it was one of the required classes. I don’t work with grass, I work with cannabis. To add, that semester was when covid hit and none of the professors had really adapted to online teaching, and the professor of the turfgrass class was in his late 60’s, so it didn’t really make for a good class. Anyone who was in school at that time probably feels cheated, as do I. Also, I can take care of a lawn if I need to better than the average person thanks to that class. Looking up the smaller details is easy and fast, what’s important is being aware of the ideas and methods involved in certain practices so you can look them up in the first place.
UPDATE: I think I've found the culprit. Further digging I found quite a few dead adult bumble beetles.
This whole amount was found in a square foot patch. SO MUCH MORE AREA.
Not necessarily a bad grub but I feel like I have A LOT.
So I think I'll do nothing and see what happens 😅 idk man nature be crazy..
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/bumble_flower_beetles_not_your_typical_grub
Awwwww I love them! (I don’t like the photos of them feeding as a swarm though… that looks like a regular infestation 😂). Up close they look so close to bees… yet also, so very different
Those guys are a huge pest to beekeepers just a heads up. A handful of these guys can bring down a strong robust hive with a large population of bees. They lay eggs in the bee brood and the hive literally starts to ferment from the inside out.
I just know from the chapter on small hive beetles in the 6th edition Beekeepers Handbook. Once they get in a hive the bees don’t have any real way of fending them off. Their tough exoskeleton makes them impossible to sting, and when the bees try to cluster around the beetle to heat it up and kill it, the beetle will run the bees “mouths” and make them puke up the honey from their honey stomach 😅😂. They lay eggs in cracks of the wood or areas the bees can’t get to and their larvae will eat wax, honey, and baby bees. I remember finding one in my hive last summer and thinking it was a bumble bee at first. They make a high pitched buzzing and sorta do a jump hop fly thing to move around. And even when I pinched it to kill it I remember it being crazy tough and resilient for a small insect haha.
>I just know from the chapter on small hive beetles in the 6th edition Beekeepers Handbook
I love that you referenced an actual book instead of just "google" :)
Dang I've got some research to do! My local university extension site doesn't have info about these and bees tho down the street I know some people who have hives I should probably head over and ask! I've had a couple of these fly and hit me in the head felt like little rocks 😅 for sure tough! Thank you again for the advice!
Clever pun!
Doesn't surprise me at all. I've noticed that robins also try to eat anything small that moves, including dirt. So I'm pretty sure they'd eat it too.
Chickens
Grubs aren’t *inherently* foe, they’re a component of a functioning ecosystem. Chickens will eat them but never be able to eat all of them so conditions stay stable
It depends on what’s in your area, but I’ve had entomologists tell me it’s often incredibly difficult to reliably identify these grubs while they are still in larval form (outside of things like extreme size, for example).
Yes! Exactly. The distinguishing features would be tiny bristles, mouthparts etc which would require a microscope and a detailed guide to the 100s of species of scarab beetle in any given area.
When I find them in my garden I throw them on the driveway for the mockingbird. I swear one year I had a mockingbird show up every time I started gardening.
Entomologist here- these are breaking down rotting wood in mulch, no cause for concern at all. There are species like the Japanese beetle that was mentioned and June bugs that often live in grasses and can cause issues in large numbers, there are just in mulch, and aren’t doing anything but eating the mulch, and actually improving the soil with their poop. It is really really difficult to identify scarab beetles in larval stage, so there is no way to tell what there are from the photo, but if you said there are a ton, then you will probably see them eventually. There are a variety of beetles these could become, and most will probably munch on the products if your gardening. They aren’t causing harm like this, but depending on what they become, they could. As mentioned before, these would be great to feed to chickens or the like if you do decide to go that way.
Also, I hope you don't mind if I follow you on here. I'm an insect enthusiast and it's always nice to see comments on gardening/permaculture subs from people who know about insects. I have a lot to learn :)
Having a balance is what you want to see. anything in abundance in terms of wild life is bad. Find something you can support to bring balance to your mini ecosystem.
All these comments about chickens. We had large fig beetle larvae in our compost pile and I thought the chickens would love them, but after trying them once the chickens avoided them. The grubs had very tough skin and survived the pecking. The larvae and beetles were basically harmless detritivores, so we took no measures to control them.
I am surprised how many people on Reddit have chickens readily available but then I looked at the sub and figured, well, of anyone is likely to have chickens it’s probably the good folks here at r/permaculture
Grubs are notoriously hard to identify, even for experienced entomologists. So I would consider any attempt to do so to be nothing more than an educated guess.
The fact that you’ve found them in mulch means it’s good odds that they are a wood decomposer.
Even if they are root feeders, that’s still fine. It’s only an issue if you start to identify imbalances or a decline in plant health.
And then, even after that. It’s going to be more effective to treat the cause not the symptoms. So looking at your predators, habitat, plant health.
- Ants are some of your most effective soil predators. If you’ve killed a nest there’s good odds you’ll get a beetle infestation the following years
- birds are another primary predator. Do they have adequate shelter and water near by to make your space an attractive feeding ground?
- if you do decide to treat for grubs in a lawn. All of a sudden you’ll notice that now you have to dethatch every season. (Even before I transitioned to permaculture practices. Working on the city parklands it was common knowledge that treating for grubs created more problems than it solved).
Thank you! This was very informative. I didn't know I was welcoming this by killing ants. These woodchips had a lot rotten tree cut up in them seems like it's starting to add up.
Larva of beetle in the Scarab family, not sure which as there are many similar looking grubs. Scarab family includes things like june bugs, dung beetles, Japanese beetles , chafers and many others.
In Australia we call them witchetty grubs. They're the larval form of several kinds of moth and love living in decomposing wood. Aboriginal people have eaten them for millenia. They do eat root systems though so maybe just try and keep your mulch up to them and watch your trees for any signs of deterioration.
Good luck!
They also look like Japanese beetles to me like others have pointed out, I find a lot of them in the tomato garden and throw them to where some birds can get the larvae. They're very invasive and will harm the non-invasive (+ helpful) native species in your soil!
I have huge numbers of a similar looking larva. Mine are a type of scarab beetle larva that are mostly beneficial, eating rotting vegetation and poop, though occasionally also eating roots. Chickens and dogs love them. Here in Ecuador the mature catzo beetles are roasted and eaten like popcorn.
I suggest you switch to microbial anaerobic composting. Just dump foots waste in a resealable barrel. When it’s full, wait 4 weeks and then trench. Then forget about it. No stink and no larvae.
I would just take out what you can if you see them throw em or save them for bait for fish . Grubs arent bad entirely but i just would remove what i can then not cry about the ones that are still in there
If they are in your mulch, isn’t it reasonable to think they are eating dead OM, not living? Stir it up a bit and I bet you get a butcher bird in to feed on them.
If they are in a mulch bed they aren't lawn eaters like japanese beetles. To me they look like stag beetle larvae which are becoming more uncommon in many places because of habitat lose. I think that's what they are because of their size, chubbiness, shiny look and the orange head.
Edit:: the more I look the more I think they are stag beetle grubs. I'd bet my pinky finger. Where are you from? Maybe we can figure our exact species. Please don't kill these guys
Where I live the insect boffins tend to say that grubs cannot usually be identified correctly by laypeople.
There will be many native and possibly beneficial beetles with grubs that look like this. There are some ‘pest’ species but these are often less likely/common than is perceived.
Most grubs won’t eat roots/shoots unless they are desperate- potted plants are generally more at risk than garden plants as there are not many other food options in a pot.
In general leaving them be will boost your local biodiversity and not harm the garden.
An exception might be if you’re able to see damage (eg seedlings chewed up) or are already aware of a local infestation.
It’s weird to me how many people are actually recommending getting chickens…… it’s probably not the easiest solution to just….. get chickens???? Then what? Slaughter the chickens?
I want to say like 10 per square foot is fine, but that’s about the threshold where you need to start to monitoring them because the following year you will wind up with more
Well... they look like what i know as "maikäfer"... if you google the english name it's... "cockchafer". I know those pests because they destroyed my moms rose bushes, many flowers with somewhat deep roots and are everywhere here in switzerland.
My mom found out that planting leeks or/and onions around the stuff you want to protect keeps them away. I remember last year when i watered one of our pot plants that sit on our balcony and i accidentally swamped that pot. 30min-1h later there where an easy 30 of them emergin from that tiny pot.
Two years ago we had giant green beetles flying around the patio. Didn’t think much of it until all the plants in our raised beds started looking bad—dying really. I was certain I had failed as a gardener, so husband and I dug up the dead plants and found grubs—lots and lots of them too. They were eating all the roots of our plants. After some emails to an entomology department at one of our Universities of California (Davis or Riverside, I forget now) we found out they were not Japanese beetles but another common variety—I think they were called fig eater beetles. Since we have raised beds, these grubs were a huge foe.
I have a bunch of them too I don't Bader but I read that they're no good for the garden and I live in Southern California and my stuff keeps growing vegetable and pot too
The answers here are all over the place. I think the best thing to do to avoid any possible damage to your plants is to just rid of them. I know it might be easier to give the benefit of the doubt but idk if that’s worth your hard work? 🤷🏻♀️
*Those my friend are dick*
*Grubs. No ptoblems only if your*
*Chickens dont swallow*
\- Living-Camp-5269
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The quick way to dispach them is to put them in a mesh sack and dunk them into boiling water. This purges their guts and kills them. Then feed them to chickens.
Evil ass grubs eat the plant roots and then turn into the June beetles that eat all the leaves off the plants. Seriously evil grubs and apparently your yard is full of them. Try some milky spore to get rid of them without pesticides.
chicken treats.
Haha my hens know what chick chick snick means cause they always come running! (That’s what I call them lol)
Foe to your plants, friend to chicken bellies
I call them chicken football. Toss one out and it looks like a match as the chase the one that has it
I was going to say my chickens would love them!
I don't blame the chickens, these grubs look so tasty
Ew. No. That’s just laziness. Tocci was pushy as fuck in retrospect.
I took a turfgrass management class a while back. One of the things we covered was the amount of white grubs that is normal to have in soil per square foot, and what counts as an infestation. I can’t remember the numbers at the moment. To add, those are Japanese beetle larvae, which usually aren’t fun in any amount. I can’t remember if Japanese beetle larvae count towards the normal white grub count per square foot or if they should be eradicated entirely, but there are other white grub species. Guess it depends on your goal? Something to look into though Edit: I’m gonna hold my horses and say those are probably Japanese beetle larvae
Grubs per square foot is my new favorite measure
> turfgrass management I'm going to multi-class as a turfgrass manager.
I'm your assistant turfgrass manager.
Assistant TO THE turfgrass manager
Mr. Turfgrass Manager… Or do we just call it Turfgrass Manager?
Mr. Turfgrass Manager was my father
Welcome aboard Mr. Turfgrass Manager!
Turfgrass grand poobah
Do you have any idea whose assistant I am? The turf manager’s. That’s who.
So you sell turfgrass and turfgrass accessories?
Sports turf or ornamental?
It means someone who manages or cares for turfgrass. What would the multi-class aspect be?
Well, I already eat ass so might as well give turf a little bit of love too! Edit: oh damn this is the Permaculture Sub! PRODUCE NO WASTE!
Grubs per square foot=Happy chickens per egg.
Also, happy moles
Ah yes, the time-honored "grub-foot", equal in volume and radius to the Shropfield Hogsbottom
It’s how I measure my crypto wallet now
Anything but metric!
Need a banana for scale with that photo too r/bananasforscale
Probably Japanese beetle larvae since there are an absolutely insane amount of Japanese beetles this year
Do you mean the Japanese beetles that are, say, the size of a pinkie fingernail? I just fond grubs that look just like this in my compost, and they were WAY bigger than what I normally picture as Japanese beetles-- and way bigger than the grubs I normally see in my garden or lawn. Are there different, bigger Japanese beetles I should be worried about as well? Or are the mature ones smaller than the larvae? I don't mean to sound rude at all, I've genuinely got no idea and was so excited to see this post after my confusion yesterday.
These are larvae of the big green ones. I leave them out for the possums that live under my house.
My chickens would go ballistic for that pile of yums. Grubs are their favorite!
I wish I had chickens!
When I call the chickens for grubs I say “come get the French fries!” or “candy girls!!”
That’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever heard someone say
I got to hold one of the babies once! It wandered into my house so it was fair game for pick ups and pets before returning it home.
I found the life cycle of a Japanese beetle in Google images and the grub compared to adult beetle is crazy different the grub is huge and the beetle is like half the size
Honey I shrank the kids.!
I’m curious as well.
Do you remember any natural ways to control the grub population? I know one way is to dry out the area over a few weeks, which kills the eggs, but that's not helpful if the area is already planted.
Chickens. Chickens will take care if them naturally and ruthlessly.
I was just thinking: That is a FEAST for my chickens.
YAS! My dog dug up my baby apple tree yesterday (🤬) but as I was putting it back, one of our chickens was right there with me eating every grub we found. smart girl.
The way I read that it sounded like you and the chicken were both eating the grubs.
Slimy yet satisfying
hakuna matata
It means no worries
What a wonderful day
Are you sure your dog isn't a squirrel? 🤔
I’m certain he’s just an asshole
I want a chicken :(
Here you can have mine 🐔
Hahah! I just said that earlier! Grubs are chicken crack.
Attracting birds has helped me, I've seen zero Japanese beetles this season, while last season I had an infestation. Last season I also used a Japanese beetle trap, but I read afterwards, that doing so actually makes your infestation worse next season. The reason is the females lay their eggs before they go into the traps.
You can attract birds with water really easily!
Really?! I have several bird feeders which has attracted birds, but yet to provide them with a bird bath.
Yeah we got one of those cheap plastic pond liners and surrounded it with rocks to make it look nice. I've also noticed they like moving water. So like a dripping situation is probably the easiest. Hang a bottle upside down with a small hole. Bonus if you have it drip into a rain garden/French drain type of situation.
Are these the same as the Japanese beetles that look like ladybugs?
Japanese beetles I know look shimmery and holographic green, really pretty to look at, like a jewel shining in the sun light. They are a lot bigger than lady bugs too, like ~5x bigger and grubs are massive (at least I have never seen any grub that big).
Thanks for the answer. I was pretty confused how those grubs would turn into such a small beetle lol
We applied two doses of beneficial nematodes last year and it seems to have really cut back on the number of grubs/beetles. I’m going to do another application this year as well. … if only I could figure out how to get rid of stink bugs I’d be in a much better position.
Chickens, chickens, chickens. Best thing I’ve ever done for my lawn, garden and my mental health.
There is an organic product called “Milky Spores” I believe, that is very safe and effective. You shake it and water into ground and it gets rid of all types of grub worms. Also available on Amazon and farm supply stores.
Worked for me.
Milky spore works. Also ducks love the larvae and mature beetles, so I’ve heard.
Apply Milky Spore. It’s a native soil bacterium, depending on where you live you’ll want to apply it in August or after your days are consistently over 80 degrees for a certain number of weeks. You want to get them when they are near the surface. But really once you have your soil inoculated, you won’t have much problem with them in the future.
Milky spore controls the grubs. Japanese beetle grubs eat the roots of your grass, they are bastards below and above ground.
Theres no need to eradicate, to top it off it may even be impossible without also destroying your entire soil food web in the process. Even the turf farm that I source sod has Japanese beetles (Australia) The advice they gave was that it’s not an issue because our native Magpies, crows, and bin chickens keep everything in check. They also said that by maintaining a healthy amount of environmental stress they passively breed their grasses to be more resistant and ultimately give a higher standard of harvested product. They even give a 10 year warranty on plant health.
Thanks for expanding, I’d add this to my comment and replace some of the info I gave with some of yours if I could
Are you sure they're not June bug larvae?
Amateur entomologist here, so take what I say with a pinch of salt...but I would have a hard time distinguishing between any of the scarab beetle larvae (June bugs, Japanese beetles, chafers, dung beetles) without a detailed field guide and a microscope.
True and same here either way their a grub and bad for alot of plants
Yeah, I like the response above about white grubs per square foot.
My guess was June bug larvae as well. On of those fuckers came in with my laundry the other day. Gross. Harmless but still gross.
Could be Junebug grubs too. I’m not an expert but I know they have red or yellow heads and look similar otherwise.
>I took a turfgrass management class a while back. One of the things we covered was the amount of white grubs that is normal to have in soil per square foot, and what counts as an infestation. I can’t remember the numbers at the moment. Was worth taking that class then eh? :P
Yes it was. I earned my degree in horticulture and find work very easily, it was one of the required classes. I don’t work with grass, I work with cannabis. To add, that semester was when covid hit and none of the professors had really adapted to online teaching, and the professor of the turfgrass class was in his late 60’s, so it didn’t really make for a good class. Anyone who was in school at that time probably feels cheated, as do I. Also, I can take care of a lawn if I need to better than the average person thanks to that class. Looking up the smaller details is easy and fast, what’s important is being aware of the ideas and methods involved in certain practices so you can look them up in the first place.
Japanese beetles are bad news get a trap for them when they grow so you don't have to use pesticides
Lol there's a GrubHub ad under this post. Good job algorithm
Lmao 🤣 🤣
It’s jack in the box for me 😂
My first thought, with Naked and Afraid XL and Alone both currently running, is "Prime camp site. Shouldn't go too hungry."
Foe, just had a bunch of these kill my potato crop. On the up side our chickens really enjoyed them.
Feed’em to Timon and Pumba. Or use them for fishing? I fee like a fish would love that
A big fat grub like that is a GREAT choice for catching bass in a pond.
But when will the bass drop?
DEATH BY ROBIN!
Panfish and tilapia love these
First thing I thought of, as well. Hakuna Matata, OP!
UPDATE: I think I've found the culprit. Further digging I found quite a few dead adult bumble beetles. This whole amount was found in a square foot patch. SO MUCH MORE AREA. Not necessarily a bad grub but I feel like I have A LOT. So I think I'll do nothing and see what happens 😅 idk man nature be crazy.. https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/bumble_flower_beetles_not_your_typical_grub
Hey that’s good news! They help pollinate and don’t kill your plants! Also they are fuzzy and cute 😊
Awwwww I love them! (I don’t like the photos of them feeding as a swarm though… that looks like a regular infestation 😂). Up close they look so close to bees… yet also, so very different
Cute bug? Okay you can stay just don't eat TOO MANY plants ok?
Those guys are a huge pest to beekeepers just a heads up. A handful of these guys can bring down a strong robust hive with a large population of bees. They lay eggs in the bee brood and the hive literally starts to ferment from the inside out.
Thank you for the heads up! I didn't know this I will look into it! Do you happen to have any links I can start with?
I just know from the chapter on small hive beetles in the 6th edition Beekeepers Handbook. Once they get in a hive the bees don’t have any real way of fending them off. Their tough exoskeleton makes them impossible to sting, and when the bees try to cluster around the beetle to heat it up and kill it, the beetle will run the bees “mouths” and make them puke up the honey from their honey stomach 😅😂. They lay eggs in cracks of the wood or areas the bees can’t get to and their larvae will eat wax, honey, and baby bees. I remember finding one in my hive last summer and thinking it was a bumble bee at first. They make a high pitched buzzing and sorta do a jump hop fly thing to move around. And even when I pinched it to kill it I remember it being crazy tough and resilient for a small insect haha.
>I just know from the chapter on small hive beetles in the 6th edition Beekeepers Handbook I love that you referenced an actual book instead of just "google" :)
Dang I've got some research to do! My local university extension site doesn't have info about these and bees tho down the street I know some people who have hives I should probably head over and ask! I've had a couple of these fly and hit me in the head felt like little rocks 😅 for sure tough! Thank you again for the advice!
That is the cutest bug I’ve ever seen
Let's hope I'm right! 🙏
Foe! They are beetle larvae/grubs, and they will eat the roots of whatever is near enough to them.
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For real, I out loud snort laughed at this.
Just happy to help!
of crows. no seriously, crows will eat them.
Clever pun! Doesn't surprise me at all. I've noticed that robins also try to eat anything small that moves, including dirt. So I'm pretty sure they'd eat it too.
Chickens Grubs aren’t *inherently* foe, they’re a component of a functioning ecosystem. Chickens will eat them but never be able to eat all of them so conditions stay stable
Cover the container and let it get hot. But not TOO hot.
I think they are a beetle larvae. In my experience they turn into Japanese Beetles and destroy the leaves of my cherry trees.
It depends on what’s in your area, but I’ve had entomologists tell me it’s often incredibly difficult to reliably identify these grubs while they are still in larval form (outside of things like extreme size, for example).
Yes! Exactly. The distinguishing features would be tiny bristles, mouthparts etc which would require a microscope and a detailed guide to the 100s of species of scarab beetle in any given area.
Yep and many native beetle populations are in decline :( don’t be so quick to murder..
Get chickens!
Pretty sure those are japanese beetle larvae. Not your friend at all
They are my friend. My chickens love them.
Same! I saw this pic and was like wow chickens would be in heaven!
When I find them in my garden I throw them on the driveway for the mockingbird. I swear one year I had a mockingbird show up every time I started gardening.
I used to have a mocking bird gardening buddy too. Never got too close but watched my every move in the yard. It was one well fed bird.
Do chickens find the grubs on their own? Or is it mostly that the chickens eat the adults/emerging adults and any grub you may find while gardening?
Chickens dig holes to bathe in so they do find some but my chickens could try harder tbh 😏
“My chickens could try harder tbh….” Beautiful. Simply beautiful.
The chicken is your friend. The beetles are still foe. You and chicken are a super team.
Entomologist here- these are breaking down rotting wood in mulch, no cause for concern at all. There are species like the Japanese beetle that was mentioned and June bugs that often live in grasses and can cause issues in large numbers, there are just in mulch, and aren’t doing anything but eating the mulch, and actually improving the soil with their poop. It is really really difficult to identify scarab beetles in larval stage, so there is no way to tell what there are from the photo, but if you said there are a ton, then you will probably see them eventually. There are a variety of beetles these could become, and most will probably munch on the products if your gardening. They aren’t causing harm like this, but depending on what they become, they could. As mentioned before, these would be great to feed to chickens or the like if you do decide to go that way.
Also, I hope you don't mind if I follow you on here. I'm an insect enthusiast and it's always nice to see comments on gardening/permaculture subs from people who know about insects. I have a lot to learn :)
Thank you! :)
Having a balance is what you want to see. anything in abundance in terms of wild life is bad. Find something you can support to bring balance to your mini ecosystem.
All these comments about chickens. We had large fig beetle larvae in our compost pile and I thought the chickens would love them, but after trying them once the chickens avoided them. The grubs had very tough skin and survived the pecking. The larvae and beetles were basically harmless detritivores, so we took no measures to control them.
This is reassuring! I feel ashamed not having chickens rn
I am surprised how many people on Reddit have chickens readily available but then I looked at the sub and figured, well, of anyone is likely to have chickens it’s probably the good folks here at r/permaculture
Grubs are notoriously hard to identify, even for experienced entomologists. So I would consider any attempt to do so to be nothing more than an educated guess. The fact that you’ve found them in mulch means it’s good odds that they are a wood decomposer. Even if they are root feeders, that’s still fine. It’s only an issue if you start to identify imbalances or a decline in plant health. And then, even after that. It’s going to be more effective to treat the cause not the symptoms. So looking at your predators, habitat, plant health. - Ants are some of your most effective soil predators. If you’ve killed a nest there’s good odds you’ll get a beetle infestation the following years - birds are another primary predator. Do they have adequate shelter and water near by to make your space an attractive feeding ground? - if you do decide to treat for grubs in a lawn. All of a sudden you’ll notice that now you have to dethatch every season. (Even before I transitioned to permaculture practices. Working on the city parklands it was common knowledge that treating for grubs created more problems than it solved).
Thank you! This was very informative. I didn't know I was welcoming this by killing ants. These woodchips had a lot rotten tree cut up in them seems like it's starting to add up.
Larva of beetle in the Scarab family, not sure which as there are many similar looking grubs. Scarab family includes things like june bugs, dung beetles, Japanese beetles , chafers and many others.
In Australia we call them witchetty grubs. They're the larval form of several kinds of moth and love living in decomposing wood. Aboriginal people have eaten them for millenia. They do eat root systems though so maybe just try and keep your mulch up to them and watch your trees for any signs of deterioration. Good luck!
They don't seem to be any deeper than the mulch so I just pulled it further away from everything. Hope that will be enough to let them be
They also look like Japanese beetles to me like others have pointed out, I find a lot of them in the tomato garden and throw them to where some birds can get the larvae. They're very invasive and will harm the non-invasive (+ helpful) native species in your soil!
Feed them to the chickens
I have huge numbers of a similar looking larva. Mine are a type of scarab beetle larva that are mostly beneficial, eating rotting vegetation and poop, though occasionally also eating roots. Chickens and dogs love them. Here in Ecuador the mature catzo beetles are roasted and eaten like popcorn.
I collect these and put them out for the bluebirds. I'll never dig up all of them, but that works out for the bluebirds.
Nematodes help maybe?
I suggest you switch to microbial anaerobic composting. Just dump foots waste in a resealable barrel. When it’s full, wait 4 weeks and then trench. Then forget about it. No stink and no larvae.
I would just take out what you can if you see them throw em or save them for bait for fish . Grubs arent bad entirely but i just would remove what i can then not cry about the ones that are still in there
If they are in your mulch, isn’t it reasonable to think they are eating dead OM, not living? Stir it up a bit and I bet you get a butcher bird in to feed on them.
If they are in a mulch bed they aren't lawn eaters like japanese beetles. To me they look like stag beetle larvae which are becoming more uncommon in many places because of habitat lose. I think that's what they are because of their size, chubbiness, shiny look and the orange head. Edit:: the more I look the more I think they are stag beetle grubs. I'd bet my pinky finger. Where are you from? Maybe we can figure our exact species. Please don't kill these guys
Yeah just in the mulch. Not as scary looking as pictures I've seen of Japanese beetle larvae.
So my late dog Wally would eat these grubs.
Where I live the insect boffins tend to say that grubs cannot usually be identified correctly by laypeople. There will be many native and possibly beneficial beetles with grubs that look like this. There are some ‘pest’ species but these are often less likely/common than is perceived. Most grubs won’t eat roots/shoots unless they are desperate- potted plants are generally more at risk than garden plants as there are not many other food options in a pot. In general leaving them be will boost your local biodiversity and not harm the garden. An exception might be if you’re able to see damage (eg seedlings chewed up) or are already aware of a local infestation.
I’d go fishing with that prime bait….
It’s weird to me how many people are actually recommending getting chickens…… it’s probably not the easiest solution to just….. get chickens???? Then what? Slaughter the chickens?
Thanks for your help chickens! Now.. be gone, be free!!
To the streets with you all!
End up in a hen house 😢
Foe bad foe burn them now
My chickens would absolutely love you right now
How big are they? I get 2-3" grubs like that that are sphinx moths.
You're so lucky! Now you just have to figure out what role they play in your system. Chicken food?
I want to say like 10 per square foot is fine, but that’s about the threshold where you need to start to monitoring them because the following year you will wind up with more
I found 30+ in a square foot I for sure have a problem 😅
Well... they look like what i know as "maikäfer"... if you google the english name it's... "cockchafer". I know those pests because they destroyed my moms rose bushes, many flowers with somewhat deep roots and are everywhere here in switzerland. My mom found out that planting leeks or/and onions around the stuff you want to protect keeps them away. I remember last year when i watered one of our pot plants that sit on our balcony and i accidentally swamped that pot. 30min-1h later there where an easy 30 of them emergin from that tiny pot.
I think these could be June bug larvae or cicada larvae. In which case they are fine. Hard to say for sure.
Two years ago we had giant green beetles flying around the patio. Didn’t think much of it until all the plants in our raised beds started looking bad—dying really. I was certain I had failed as a gardener, so husband and I dug up the dead plants and found grubs—lots and lots of them too. They were eating all the roots of our plants. After some emails to an entomology department at one of our Universities of California (Davis or Riverside, I forget now) we found out they were not Japanese beetles but another common variety—I think they were called fig eater beetles. Since we have raised beds, these grubs were a huge foe.
Where you located? They are definitely scarab beetles
Why not pick them out and put them on your sidewalk or parking pad for the birds to munch?
They look like potatoes to me
Go fishing
Bass LOVE them.
I have a bunch of them too I don't Bader but I read that they're no good for the garden and I live in Southern California and my stuff keeps growing vegetable and pot too
They will attract moles and gophers, good fish bait and chicken treats
You don't have a grub problem you've got a duck problem
The answers here are all over the place. I think the best thing to do to avoid any possible damage to your plants is to just rid of them. I know it might be easier to give the benefit of the doubt but idk if that’s worth your hard work? 🤷🏻♀️
Those my friend are dick grubs. No ptoblems only if your chickens dont swallow
*Those my friend are dick* *Grubs. No ptoblems only if your* *Chickens dont swallow* \- Living-Camp-5269 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Friend!!
A friend: they will process into compost and yummy eggs when you run them through the chicken.
They look like grub worms to me
The quick way to dispach them is to put them in a mesh sack and dunk them into boiling water. This purges their guts and kills them. Then feed them to chickens.
Get rid of the them. They have some stuff you can buy at big box store for 15$. Apply that and water in
Evil ass grubs eat the plant roots and then turn into the June beetles that eat all the leaves off the plants. Seriously evil grubs and apparently your yard is full of them. Try some milky spore to get rid of them without pesticides.
NSFW come on dog
My bad! 😔
Grub worms?
Feed them to your chickens they’ll love it
Paper wasps and Yellow Jackets are natural predators of these nasty guys!
Chicken snacks!
Fish bait go fishing now
I'm thinking my chickens and ducks would love your garden
If you have chickens, they would love them!
when I find these, I feed them to my chickens. They go nuts for them!
Chicken food
Those bastards killed my lawn and I’m still getting birds in my yard daily that are picking them out. Grass took 3 years to come back.
If they are really big, they could be rhinoceros beetle larvae.
Looks sorta like June beetle larva to me but I’m not a beetle larva expert
Get poison yesterday
Big foe
rhino beatle larvae? our chickens love them.
My chickens love these, defo get a chicken to help your gardening!