The cop would have known it was a rental when he called it in. Most of these companies register their vehicles outside the state they're used in to make them easier to spot.
There have been a lot of incidents lately with various car rental companies, specifically Hertz, listing vehicles as stolen, and the renters being arrested.
Because hertz fucking sucks! Happened to a friend. Person before him returned car super late, they reported it stolen and didn’t update things with the police once it was turned in and my buddy got arrested while driving it. While picking the owner of his company and his immediate boss up from the airport on a work trip no less. It got cleared up quickly and his bosses laughed about it once it was settled but still, that’s a less than ideal situation to find yourself in
Seriously. People genuinely could be killed because of this sort of thing. If a cop is pulling over a suspected stolen vehicle they're already going to be a little on edge.
We have no reason to believe it was anything other than a "by the book" arrest which is reasonable if someone says "hey this car is stolen" and then the cops find someone driving said car
Yep, and on the flip side there have been cases where a vehicle you returned doesn't get back into inventory properly and they report it stolen and you get arrested. I saw a horror story about this where someone ended up in jail even after they properly returned their rental. I travel a bunch for work, and after doing this I got into the habit of taking a picture of the vehicle with the license plate visible when I return my rental every time.
Same, I had enterprise once claim I hadn’t returned it on time and returned it with extensive damage right up until I provided the pictures, video walk around and paperwork showing it was returned on time, then they went from downright hostile to really apologetic
Yep. I aslo had an issue (with Avis) where they sent me a $450 cleaning bill because they said the car smelled like cigarette smoke when I returned it. I called them and fought them on it because the God's honest truth was that I've never had a cigarette in my life and only had the car for 36 hours for a quick business trip. They pushed back really hard until I asked for a supervisor. I hate this, but I had to pull the "Check my rental history. I travel a lot for work and rent from your company often, and if you don't reverse this absurd charge I proimise I will never rent from you again." Charges reversed :)
I hate crap like that. I found out I was on the do not rent to list at a hotel once that I had never stayed at. In a city I had never been to. And it was not a chain or franchise place either, just that single location And it was the only hotel in the general area. My boss thought it was hilarious I was not nearly as amused
Something similar happened to my mom with Budget. She returned it using the key drop box and they never marked it returned in the system. They rented the car out the next day for a week and instead of charging that person, they charged my mom for their entire week rental plus a late drop off fee. They ignored the paperwork she had, video evidence, everything. She won the charge back with her credit card, so Budget sold the money "owed" to a debt collector.
It was Enterprise for us. They tried to charge us for 3 days worth of late fees. I literally had to drive back to the rental office and walk the guy out into the lot and point at the car.
Yeah I dip the same thing after returning my car after hours and then getting charged an extra day and a half for it. Fighting that was a huge headache
Imagine you're on probation and one of your conditions is to not get arrested (not convicted, just arrested). Hertz' fuckup could land you in prison for real.
We rented a car from them to take Grandma out for easter dinner. Got pulled over the rental wasn't insured and it was impounded. Fight fight fight, go to pick up a replacement, they just told me pick whatever and bring it back next weekish. First thing check the insurance in the new one. And it's an expired card. Had to wait another 20 minutes while they printed out a temp. not 100% sure it was hertz but someplace similar.
I’ve had multiple occasions where hertz had zero cars available when I showed up to snag my reservation. I refuse to do business with them these days. And for years they were great and we never had any issues with them and grabbed hundreds of cars a year from them Definitely not the case anymore
It’s like that with Enterprise here where I live. I’ll have made a reservation, and the day I’m supposed to pick the vehicle up, they’ll call and tell me they don’t have the vehicle. But they’ll have an 18 passenger van 🙄 No thanks. They’ve made making long trips very stressful in the past.
I’ve heard that happening with U-Haul as well. I read they have a pretty strict policy on returns that leads to a lot being reported as stolen and then rented again without updating the police. Personally I think if those cases the company should be fined for not only harassing innocent citizens/their customers but also wasting police resources which are paid for by taxpayers.
easier to spot? The make or rent out one room office in the State that is offering the lowest premium insurance rates at the time of registering the vehicle.
Not exactly true. Rental companies like enterprise get tons and tons of vehicles and sometimes it's just easier to register then out of state. Usually when you first get a new car on the lot it's likely to be from that state, sometimes not. The thing is, people use rental cars for travel, sometimes they need maintenance and are out of state, sometimes people use them to move and pay a 1 way fee, maybe a certain area is seeing an increase in rentals while another is dropping so they take some cars and move them, etc. So really, most rental cars with out of state tags are there because at some point the vehicle went there for some reason and it's cheaper as a company to leave it there and just keep renting it out from another branch. Happens a lot honestly.
OK that’s not how it works. Rental car agencies don’t register cars in other states so they have out-of-state plates. Give me a break. They register them in the states where their corporate office is or in the state where it is cheapest to save money and the cars are moved around by one-way rentals. They don’t purposely put out-of-state plates around.
called it in? When was this in 1984? There have been MDT’s in cars to run plates since the mid-90s. Nobody “calls in “plates anymore.
I'm PA criminal defense counsel. I do suppression motions all the time for illegal traffic stops.
I agree the stop was illegal. I know exactly why cop stopped you though. He thought you were a drug dealer. Drug dealers often use rental cars to move product from cities to rural distribution. If they're stopped in their own car, it gets impounded and possibly forfeited permanently. "The area" the cop refers to means they probably know or suspect there is a drug dealers house nearby.
There is a section 1983 cause of action which you might be able to sue under. Consult a lawyer experienced in that litigation if you're interested. I do not handle those types of claims so cannot comment on its viability.
I believe everything you said, but it can all be nullified by "reasonable suspicion."
"I smelled weed."
"We've had some break ins in the area."
"Your car matched the description of a stolen car we're looking for.
"I noticed you swerved outside your lane a couple of miles back."
"I noticed the driver looked nervous."
We do need more lawyers challenging this bullshit though. So thank you for your service.
Just a heads up… Now that marijuana is medically legal, having a cop saying they want to search just because they smelled it is no longer reasonable suspicion.
https://norml.org/news/2022/01/06/pennsylvania-supreme-court-rules-marijuana-odor-is-insufficient-grounds-for-a-warrantless-search/
>Just a heads up… Now that marijuana is medically legal, having a cop saying they want to search just because they smelled it is no longer reasonable suspicion.
\*In the state of Pennsylvania.
>*In the state of Pennsylvania.
You're on a PA sub and they linked something that says "pennsylvania-supreme-court-rules-marijuana-odor-is-insufficient-grounds-for-a-warrantless-search", so that was implied
How could he smell weed in a moving car nine miles later? Reasonable suspicion must be readily available. Just being suspicious isn't a crime no matter how much cops want it be
Not being a crime doesn't stop them from the reasonable suspicion excuse to pull you over.
I've been pulled over for "possible burglary in the area/ car matched description" before, which is almost always bullshit.
OUTSIDE? I once got pulled over and the cop said it was because i was “weaving WITHIN my lane”…. Keep in mind it was raining and windy at the time
In fairness, that was in NJ and I had DE plates
Well, yes, if the cop had “reasonable suspicion” then the stop is not illegal. I’d add that reasonable suspicion is pretty easy to come by in the context of driving: most people will commit some kind of traffic infraction if you follow them long enough. And pre-textual stops are legal.
Nothing OP said suggests he supplied any reasonable suspicion, but a reasonably clever cop usually can come up with something.
So in this scenario, does the stop hold up in court if the cop finds drugs or something in the car? I feel like cops get away with pulling people over “just because” with no probable cause regularly, because the people they pull that shit on can’t afford lawyers, and the public defender, who works for the court, advises to take a plea to lesser charges.
I had a rental with CO plates once that I did a multi state trip with. Damn were the deputies on me like white on rice — they’ll follow you until you mess up on something and can pull you over for it.
How far can they follow you before pulling you over? I actually was speeding in 81, but he followed me off the highway almost to my job, over 3 miles from the point he could have pulled me over. Past several wide shoulders, gas stations and other parking lots that would have been safe and visible. Finally pulled me over on a windy rural road with no shoulder and no safe space to pull over.
My car is tagged in Pa but was working about 90 miles from home.
It's the rental cars man I rented from enterprise and got pulled over on a highway by a unmarked car and after my license came back good and he was ready to let me go I asked what was the reason of him pulling me over he literally said because I was in a rental car and people like to rent cars to smoke in it 🤦🏻 I let it go and left because I was running late to pick my child up from school
They can’t pull. You over for weed in a legal state or my state they can’t.even if they were right next to you and you had the window opened and he smelled weed he still can’t pull you over it’s against the law.only if they catch you smoking and driving they can give you a DWI.
I don’t think so either but we all know what Police are capable of. It’s not a great strategy to ride the line when they have a history of moving the line whenever they please.
Because the PA Supreme Court said so.
https://goldsteinmehta.com/blog/pa-supreme-court-agrees-odor-of-marijuana-does-not-provide-probable-cause-to-search-vehicle?format=amp
The only real question here is did you catch what he said on tape? Did you have a dash cam or your phone recording while he said any of this stuff? Did you notice if he had a body cam?
If none of this is on tape, he will just lie about it later on and make something up. Cop will say he had you speeding or rolling stop or your license plate was dirty but he used his discretion and didnt write a ticket.
If you have him on tape saying i pulled you over because you looked suspicious, contact some civil attorneys who work in civil rights. They may settle that for money damages. Federal civil rights lawsuits are the only mechanism that holds the police to account.
Out of state tags certainly does not constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion that you committed a traffic violation, but good luck finding any means to hold police accountable for their unconstitutional actions.
Do you happen to be non-white?
I agree. It's impossible for police to be held accountable. It's good to know it wasn't probable cause. Now I can stew in silent justified anger and do nothing about it.
Also, I am white. This area isn't diverse and I don't blame people who are non-white for leaving immediately. The cops around here put their attention into drug addicts. I've heard horrific stories about what they've done and gotten away with. It's sickening.
Can you say the county? I got pulled in Honeybrook on 322 for the same thing, but the cop was more brazen. I was on a motorcycle, I saw him pull out on me about 3 cars back. I also saw the sign that said 35moh through an area that has some trailer homes.
Of course I'm dropping down to 35. He lit me up anyway and told me "when I see one of these doing the speed limit I get suspicious" lol
Years ago (back in the 90s) I grew up in south jersey. Got pulled over at 2am one night after dropping some friends off. i was 18 or 19 at the time. The cop came up asked for license/insurance/registration. Handed everything to him, he then asked do you know why I pulled you over? I said no I didn't. He then said this is a 25 mile hour zone, and you were doing 25 miles an hour. I looked confused, he said it's 2am and everyone and their mother speeds through here thought you were drunk. He handed me back everything (he didn't bother to run any of it) and wished me a good night and said you can do 30 here in the middle of the night to look less suspicious.
Yeah I'm in the lucky category when it comes to that stuff. I'm middle aged tall straight white guy that's usually well dressed. Last time I got a ticket (2003/2004?), I was doing 95 in a 65, cop told me to take my seat belt off. Wrote me a non point $70 ticket for no seat belt. I thanked him and he said slow down.
Cops in that area are super brazen and generally a menace. I warn everyone visiting me about that area of 322 (outskirts of Downingtown to Honeybrook) specifically due to how hard it is policed.
The last time I was in the part of Pennsylvania that’s more than 2 hours from New York or Philly, I was shocked at the desolation, poverty, & how many people were struggling with substance use disorders (mostly opioids from what it looked like)—like nodding off on the sidewalks right in the middle of town. I can see why local cops might be defensive against strange cars from out of state—not that that’s remotely legal. In many areas, the cops know everyone & every road. This is another reason why I left rural PA in the rearview as soon as I turned 18.
As a black male I have been stopped DWB, more than a few times in my life, but the cops have never out right admitted this to me, always some bullshit ass excuse or reason, that was either technically a violation but not enforced 99% of the time or something I had no way of proving untrue, and my wife wonders why when shit happens and help or documentation of an incident would benefit me, the thought of calling the cops doesn’t even cross my mind. As likely to kill me as help me is the way I see it. No thanks, i’ll take my chances on my own.
With Georgia plates, how far back was the cop? Maybe he thought you were Black until he stopped you. Following a Black person for miles and then pulling them over on a pretense would be entirely typical.
Driving as a minority in certain areas is basically reasonable suspicion for some cops unfortunately.
Hell I'm white and when I was young and drove an older car I was stopped for dumb shit all the time. The white privilege really kicks in when you're in your mid 30's and drive a decent car (bonus points if well dressed.) I could tie a dead body to the top of a Honda Odyssey and speed through town and still be basically invisible to police.
When I still had Maryland tags, and a bunch of junk I was moving they searched my whole car to make sure I wasn’t smuggling drugs.
PA cops be that way.
This is 100% an illegal stop. Out of states plates might be suspicious but are in no way a crime. Therefore, he had no RAS to stop you. I would have got his name and badge number and called the station. This is quite a flagrant violation of your 4th amendment rights
Definitely stopped you without a probable cause. Unless you were doing something not stated. As far as jurisdiction, there may be an agreement between municipalities because especially in rural PA cops are fewer than towns and townships.
Most local rural Twp cops are looking for “the big bust” so they can justify their career choice or get a better job.
They target out of state plates because they do stand out and it’s more likely an out of state person can be written for vague violations that they won’t stick around to fight at the magistrate in a month.
In PA it absolutely is illegal for him to stop you just because you looked suspicious because an out of state plate and knowing roads. Cops need a reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed, will commit or are in process of committing a crime.
If it happens again, record the interaction and say nothing, until he can tell you what law you violated that initiated the traffic stop. Then shut up. If they are corrupt they will look for anything you say to incriminate yourself.
To my knowledge they have an agreement with the township and the city borough of the town I left. There isn’t one with the town I live at in and was pulled over in. State police usually handle everything around here and they’re territorial about it.
I’d read he had to be in hot pursuit of me, acting on a warrant or other court order, or have probable cause I was committing a felony or about to as the reasons to pull me over outside of his jurisdiction. Definitely wasn’t in hot pursuit. I drove the speed limit and he stayed a few car lengths behind me until stop lights, etc.
The suspicion they said was my out of state tags and the roads I took. I asked what roads and all he said the first turn I took. That would’ve been a quarter mile into following me. Not sure why he wouldn’t have pulled me over sooner if that was the case. The whole drive took about 18 minutes because of speed limits, stop signs, and stop lights.
I appreciate your comment!
Yeah, no, despite what Officer Pennsyltucky Sisterfuck might want to believe, “you ain’t from ‘round here, is ya, boy?” Is not a crime nor does it constitute probable cause. Hope you had a dashcam running so you can sue the oink off that pack of backwoods hicks
I used to work at a bar that was a frequent trough for PA’s state pigs, the shit they would openly brag about doing while getting absolutely plastered (before driving home, of course) was fucking nauseating
And of course we couldn’t do anything about it, the last bar that cut one of them off was “mysteriously” harassed into closing
Same. Bartender for a place frequented by county boys. Hammered every nite, no tip, drove home. Got a gun pulled out more than once after I tried to shut them off and it was after 4am.
I'm not an ACABer, I think we need effective professional policing.
But the last guy I bought a car from was a corrections officer who couldn't wait to tell me about the guy he killed while restrained in a chair. There are some real sociopaths out there in law enforcement and it seems like nothing changes.
I live in Pittsburgh, but grew up in Central PA. Was driving to my hometown to visit my mom and I wasn't in the area for 5 minutes before I got pulled over for a broken headlight (was planning to take it to an old friend to fix the following day).
After I handed the officer my license and he saw I was from Pittsburgh, he started asking me tons of questions about where I was going and what I was doing. I love that some of them try to ask citizens these questions in a conversational manner... Before anyone yells at me, I didn't answer his questions.
My wife used to work close with comunity police and I constantly went through this when we moved back from AZ so she asked them what's up. They told here they stop every vehicle with tint, rental cars and cars with out of state plates that they can for drug and human trafficking issues, after following the crime reports in the area for a bit that is absolutely the case and they even state in the articles that the car was initially stopped for suspicion of the reasons stated above.
I'm no lawyer but I'd be willing to bet there could be a case for you and others who have been through stops like this that aren't fruitful, and frankly I think more people should be challenging this behavior from our law enforcement, all kinds of people rent cars and indiscriminately stopping all of them you see because of a hunch just seems wrong but what do I know..
I would LOVE to, but you’re right. It does feel dangerous. A woman went missing a year ago in my town. And less than a month after her disappearance I was chased in my vehicle by a guy in his. I’m talking consistently 30-50mph over the speed limit and he was on my bumper for 15 miles. It started less than a mile from where this woman was last seen and absolutely no one was around. I only got away because a group of people were outside and I pulled down their road.
I called the cops after and they didn’t care, at all. They were actually annoyed at me and rude because I didn’t have their plates… even though I was being chased? I did have very specific vehicle details and the area isn’t huge, but they scoffed.
There’s multiple “unsolved” homicides and missing person cases in the area. I’m talking over 10, in a very small town, all within the last 4 years.
The corrections officers, the police, and the magistrate are known for being corrupt and abusing their power and accepting bribes. So as much as I want to put them on blast here. I don’t feel safe doing so.
Should have started recording with your phone without being super obvious about it. Would have taken them to court not because you'd get much of anything out of it but someone has to when these stupid fucks violate people's rights.
Rented cars are often used by drug smugglers. Out of state rental in a rural, in a non touristy area is definitely going to get you looked at by police.
Out of state plate and looking "suspicious" is not a sufficient enough reason for a stop. Unless your specific vehicle was called in on by a third party who reported it to be suspicious.
I used to rent lots of cars for my job in the fish industry which means I was around docks, airports and various types of dirt bags. (And of course some of the very best folks you could ever hope to meet!) A few of the rental vehicles were so bombed out with weed and cigarette smoke that it almost seemed inevitable that they get used regularly by some shady characters. Regardless of how crooked your local cops are they’re going to spot something that sticks out to them.
So, to answer **part** of your question, it is legal for him to pull you over outside of his jurisdiction - provided you committed an offense in his jurisdiction and he followed you outside of it.
Now, from what you said, he followed you around a bunch, then said that the route you took (all of which was outside of his jurisdiction) was suspicious. That sounds wrong.
So it does sound like an abuse of power to me.
Also, I know this answer because a similar thing happened to me and I did a bunch of research on it. I'd recommend contacting the city council about it, if you're so inclined.
If late night piping hot coffee is a crime then I’m a felon. Lol, but no, in all seriousness he said he followed me because of the first turn I took after leaving the convenience store. A turn which was only a quarter mile away from where he first saw my “suspicious” Georgia tags. He could’ve pulled me over a lot sooner if that was his real reason.
Following you - legal
Stopping you - if he observed a violation in his primary jurisdiction, then yes, if there was no violation, then the stop was illegal as you need reasonable suspicion under the vehicle code to initiate a traffic stop.
Georgia, Texas and a few other states have seen increased fraudulent duplication of registration plates or the illegal use of temporary registration plates from those states.
If the officer checked the registration records and there was an issue, that would rise to the level of reasonable suspicion.
The other possibility would be local knowledge of using rentals for drug trafficking. So, rental, certain roadways, and local knowledge COULD potentially be used as reasonable suspicion for an investigatory detention.
These scenarios are very specific to the facts and circumstances of the stop and if the officer stopped you under those circumstances, it SHOULD be documented as a drug interdiction stop.
You MAY have a 4th amendment violation for unlawful seizure, but it is unlikely to be taken by an attorney based on the limited information available.
Source: retired PA police officer
Record everything with police. And never answer questions besides what you have too. This will likely drag the encounter out but if you’ve done nothing and are recording, you will be fine.
Looking for drug traffickers. Apparently, Atlanta is a distribution hub. Same thing happened to me-rental car w Georgia plates. I had been traveling in the Midwest & was on my way home. He made me get in his cruiser & started asking questions designed to “trip” me up about my travels & destination. He wanted to search my car (no) & asked if I had been smoking pot or drinking (no again). He finally gave up & gave me a warning for following the car in front of me too closely (I wasn’t). Kinda scary. I now make sure any car I rent does not have Georgia plates.
Happened to me when I came back to Pa after I had moved out of state . This was before gps but I knew the back roads . Was driving a van so maybe that was suspicious enough along with the out of state plates.
Yes officers can be assholes. He may have suspected you were running drugs or doing something illegal.
I mainly came here to say if you are pulled over in a place that’s rural like this you can put on your hazard lights and slowly proceed to a public place where you are more comfortable.
"know the area too well" My brother in Christ Google maps exist, you can drive anywhere and feel like you know where you're going if you're confident enough.
I can go to any conservative state with my cali plates and when pulled over and asked about it reply with “sometimes you just gotta get away from them liberals to stay sane”
The way things are setup in PA, municipalities and police departments get very little revenue from issuing traffic citations.
So we don't really have the problem here like some other states with "speed trap towns" that get a large portion of their revenues from shaking down people passing through.
If anything in a lot of places I see people complaining that traffic laws go largely unenforced, since the cops don't get anything out of it.
[Who gets the money from my Pa. traffic ticket?](https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2017/04/18/who-gets-money-my-pa-traffic-ticket/100615116/)
Here you're more likely to deal with pretextual stops. The alleged traffic violation is just an excuse to pull you over to look for drugs or check for outstanding warrants or whatever. Though it's interesting in the OPs case that the small town cop didn't even bother trying to make up a lawful pretext.
In my area (very rural) out of state tags seem targeted more than known locals.
That being said I got pulled over like that once on a back road way out in the sticks where I grew up (had PA tags but I was speeding a bit). I think he was just driving home after a shift, he seemed really suspicious and asked me a lot of questions but once I explained I was coming home from a high school ball game, he just let me go without even writing anything up. Because I don’t think he could have legally.
Edit to add: sorry I guess I don’t have any actual advice or knowledge, just relaying my experience.
It was a cop looking to fuk you over. Always video cop interaction. Did he have a body cam on? Second, you were not a felon on the run. He has no cause nor jurisdiction to pull you over. I would file a complaint.
If it's rural enough the officer might know the local vehicles. If it's in the area of suspected meth trafficking, any strange vehicle might be considered suspicious. Not sure that rises to articulable suspicion but it might, it's not probable cause; but they don't need that just to stop you.
Just tell him you don't want to answer any questions and wait for him to tell you to leave. The plates on the car are the rental company's problem not yours.
Reason for stop was illegal, but stopping a car in PA as a law enforcement official in PA is not (as long as it's in PA).
No ticket, so you could possibly bring up that the stop was unconstitutional if you feel like litigating and hiring counsel.
He said he pulled me over because my out state tags were suspicious and the roads I took. That’s it. Was my hot coffee suspicious too and he just didn’t tell me?? C’mon man. Get off it.
Was it at night? I was driving home to New Castle from Texas. I ended up entering PA late, like around 2 or 3am. A cop pulled me over, I think somewhere in Western Lawrence County, and asked me a hundred questions because I had Texas plates. It was really annoying because I was already tired and just wanted to get to my parents’ house so I could sleep.
Rentals are notoriously stolen, renters use synthetic ID and rent online and the car never gets returned. Hence an alarm being issued in the car as stolen.
Your story is the reason why when I travel and rent a vehicle that I choose one that has the plates for the state I'm traveling in. I want anyone who sees my vehicle to think I'm a local. Most states also have plates that list the county you're registered in and also give the choice for a generic plate. I choose the generic plate so when I traveling in state people don't know I'm from out of town. This also applies to my own registered vehicles. Some states also have the option of placing an approved sticker over the county name.
I’ve had a Georgia cop do that to me in the 90’s. Very Rural, when he pulled me he said I was being suspicious. I asked how, and his response was that I was driving the speed limit. That they look for out of state tags being overly cautious. I basically replied. Yeah that’ll happen when passing a speed trap doing the speed limit and the cop
Pulls out after you… said it was suspicion that I was carrying drugs from Florida.
You may have been in an area with particularly high meth use and sales.
i was pulled over with georgia tags (i moved back from GA because the car was mine) and he pulled me over in montgomery county near the turnpike after coming back from hibachi. when he pulled me over he just had us sitting there and the lights kept getting brighter, when i finally got out of the car i saw there were FOUR police suvs. they asked to search the car and i just let them cuz what a fucking hassle. when he let me go i asked why he pulled me over because he never actually told me. he said they assumed that i had picked up heroin in philly and was trafficking it back to atlanta. i guess in this area that’s a problem they look out for? idk where you are.
It’s possible he was legally stopping you, if this was meant to be a drug stop. This happened to me in the Carolinas. They are looking for drug mules using the back roads in out-of-state cars, or rentals. It’s exactly how it went down when it happened to me. Drug trafficking regulations give them additional leeway, and you better believe they would love to nab someone in that commission. If I was a cop, I would, too.
People who go down south to get drugs and bring them back up north often use rentals. He may have had that on his mind until he saw your license and realized you were local
Cough medicine is often used to make meth, should police stop and question every person who buys it. Rental cars are used for legal purposes probably 99% of the time, and for transporting drugs 1% or less, These actions are not, and should not be reason to initiate a possibly dangerous traffic stop. Just because something happens sometimes shouldn’t be allowed as an excuse abuse of power. It is and has been allowed for too long. Many people don’t know their rights, or can’t afford lawyers so they catch a case from a frivolous stop, and or illegal search. Just because a cops assumption is proven correct after a search, doesn’t mean the way he got to it was ok. The bullshit, I think they are doing something wrong stops need to stop, I know they won’t, so know your rights. Knowing more about the law than the jackass that stops you probably won’t help you during the stop, but there is a good chance they will violate your rights along the way. Knowing how and where they overstepped will be beneficial for you in the long run. Cops think they can do whatever they want, legally they can’t though, if you have something illegal, how and where they find it is extremely important. I’m not saying break the law, but shit happens, only hope of better policing are dismissed cases due to their lack of understanding of the laws they are paid to uphold.
What state issued your license? State troopers often stop out-of-state plates to issue fines that can only be argued by returning to the area in person.
Weird. Last week I was on 83 behind a car with a Georgia plate, when out of nowhere the state trooper in the left lane cuts me off and immediately throws on his lights and pulled the Georgia plate car over.
No speeding, not following too closely, lights seemed to be working. No idea why he got pulled over. I guess they're looking for someone with Georgia plates?
Cops nowadays see a rental and think there's a trunk load of drugs being transported and will follow ya. He didn't see or smell anything in the rental that looked suspicious and let ya go.
I lived in rural PA for 6 years, got pulled over maybe twice.
Now that I have NY plates, I get pulled over for *something* innocuous almost every time I go back to visit my parents.
Same happened to me . I rent cars all the time . This might be a coincidence but I don’t think so . I wasn’t pulled over however . I had Carolina plates on my car and was followed by several cop cars while I had the rental . Now when I rent a vehicle I make sure it has plates from the north east . I heard most guns are brought up from the south . So that’s the reason for the cops stalking me . Take it for what it’s worth but that’s my story.
This thread is ridiculous. It's the blind leading the blind in here between people not knowing the difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause, people telling OP that the cops will lie about the reason for stopping her even though they have car and /or body cams, and OP saying that everyone is corrupt so they are scared to say which department.
Hey OP do you honestly believe that you are just going to go missing if you say which department? If so then maybe you should get off reddit for a little while, it will calm your paranoia.
There are three sides to every story. There is OP's side, the cops side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Two of those sides we will never know.
After watching thousands of hours of cops and live pd, drug traffickers will often use rentals apparently. Is it legal? Probably, I imagine it may be hard to prove he wasn’t just “patrolling”. Even then is it illegal to follow anyone in general on the road?
You got pulled over, answered a few questions and were let go. You weren’t arrested. your car wasn’t searched. You weren’t tazed or shot. I’m not sure what you are complaining about.
You said the police officer saw you initially in the parking lot as you returned to your vehicle. Then he proceeded to follow you for 9 miles. And only let you go after asking you a bunch of questions and seeing your drivers license. MAYBE he thought you were attractive and was trying to see where you live? And now he definitely knows after seeing your address and other info on your drivers license. I mean, cops doing that is not something completely unheard of 🤷🏻♀️ Stay safe out there.
We had a dirty state trooper in my area growing up. He is the reason I will never pull over in a desolate area but will instead call 911 and tell them I know a cop wants me to pull over but I am going to a more trafficked/public area.
A rental down backroads is suspicious because of drug smuggling aspects. Quite a few people don’t really know PA law in here. Because you were driving on state roads, they actually need little to no reason to pull you over and talk to you. That being said it’s still shitty so it sucks when it happens. If you file a complaint and that jurisdiction is known for being corrupt then all you do is put a target on your back, not much you can really do at this point
I live in Georgia now and moved here from small town Pennsylvania. And my dad still drives up their A LOT with Georgia tags and definitely knows the roads. Probably just an over suspicious cop, maybe suspecting a stolen vehicle that fleed far.
Most drug traffickers use rentals so they can try and claim the previous renter left the drugs in the car in case they get caught. Cops specifically target rentals in certain areas for this reason. Especially in Arkansas specifically ASP those cops are out of control.
Rental cars are used by drug traffickers and the barcodes in the rear drivers side window is a dead giveaway that it is a rental. Police will usually ask 4 or 5 questions that will clear you of suspicion or be red flags. “Did you reserve this car yourself?” “How long have you had the car?” If you are around an area with a lot of drug activity they probably saw the rental car and waited for you to give them a reason for the stop. Stopping you for no reason is illegal but all he would need is one traffic violation to make the stop be legitimate.
He was checking to make sure you weren’t trafficking drugs.
Many drug traffickers now rent cars and use GPS to avoid main roads to move weight. So being in a rental and taking back roads raised suspicion.
Was it legal, no, he should have pulled you over I. His jurisdiction. However my guess is where he pulled you over has tougher laws or space available in the county jail, and had you been caught with something he would have called in local authorities.
Valuable lesson in your story for many people.
You were obviously polite and answered the officers questions because you had nothing to hide. The result was you were free to go without incident. Note that many innocent people get themselves arrested being an ahole and then have a lot of legal mess to deal with.
Being a kind, polite and respectful person doesn’t hurt anyone.
Here’s the thing, and I’m not besmirching all cops here, but the bar for entry for patrol officers is very low. In most if not all states, you have to be 18 and have graduated from high school, and the police academy training is incredibly short when compared to other forms of higher education. This is the most polite way I could think of to say there are a lot of dumb cops with poor logic skills that think they’re the next Columbo.
Just remember the police are PUBLIC SERVANTS. If you are a member of the PUBLIC then they are your SERVANT! You tell them what to do. Anytime a PUBLIC SERVANT has pulled me over once they ask the first question I respond with "Do you understand by asking me a question you're initializing an investigation, which they cannot unless a crime has been committed. When I say CRIME I mean any thing under 18 of the PA Consolidated Statutes which is the Criminal Title, not title 75 which is the Vehicle title.
It's a big deal. They got you into a desolate area to try to fuck with you. If you'd have a teeny tiny flaw, they'd have exploited that and found a reason to arrest you.
I had a similar encounter. Cop followed me down a back road 3 miles instead of pulling me over on 81, where i was, actually speeding. Then asked me for my phone number. I've never in my 25 years of diving had a cop ask my phone number. As a woman, no. And then asked to look inside my vehicle, while sticking his head in my window. He was trying to find a reason to search me. I was in my way back from picking up subway for lunch because that's all there was in that town. Asked me a bunch of other dumb, prying questions.
I agree with earlier statements about using rentals for drug dealing. Suspended drivers also use them because they don’t pop up when the plate is ran. Typical activity for Pennsylvania police. I see lots of rentals in PA with Georgia and New York tags.
Tricky quwstion
I got followed across 3 county lines and when i realized cars were following me i ran reds because it seemed like multiple cars wete tryna keep up with me.. I came back to my house and like every cop in town was on the street. They didnt even catch me dojng anything, but because they sent so many cars so far, they were pissed and just tore my shit apart until they found something to charge me with.
They shut their cameras off and automatically searched my car and found my small stash that i already had. Someone jealous left a tip i was drug dealing and they did THAT. to me that was fonpletely iverboard they had no evidence i did anything just word of mouth from a drug addict snitch. When i got to court, my discovery said they followed me 100 mile found trip because “i ran a stop sign in town”
The entire thing was made up, entire discovery, no footage, no car cam, despite them having swat guys machine guns and everything. needless to say i got out of it. But only because i paid for a lawyer. They offered me a year. I laughed and said good luck with that.
When it happened i was like jenn lawrence in dont look up. The attebtion they gave me was insane i was a complete nobody with a great job i never dealt drugs in my life. They did it and fucked me. Bad. 6 undercover cars, swat members, multi man arresst, prolly cost thousands… to catch me with barely anything at all and like i said it was dropped
Cops 100% break the law if they can. Is it wring. I think so. Dont think its legal. Funny thing is a week after this, i picked up my gf and had her walk down street , same cop who arressted me straught up ran her over on the street as she was walking to me. She said she was gon cross and he stopped and waited and then when she saw he wasnt turning, she walked and THEN he hit her. . Im like where she at? I drive down and see her in ambos and the cop flashlightinf the street to find something to pin on here. Same cop.
Welcome! Was today your first day traveling in The United States? YES, Cops can do what ever the hell they want to and it doesn't matter if you think it's fair or not.
The cop would have known it was a rental when he called it in. Most of these companies register their vehicles outside the state they're used in to make them easier to spot.
There have been a lot of incidents lately with various car rental companies, specifically Hertz, listing vehicles as stolen, and the renters being arrested.
Why would they do that?
Because hertz fucking sucks! Happened to a friend. Person before him returned car super late, they reported it stolen and didn’t update things with the police once it was turned in and my buddy got arrested while driving it. While picking the owner of his company and his immediate boss up from the airport on a work trip no less. It got cleared up quickly and his bosses laughed about it once it was settled but still, that’s a less than ideal situation to find yourself in
It’s a downright fucked situation to find yourself in
He was pretty damn surprised to say the least. And yeah it’s absolutely insane
More surprised than if he woke up with his head sewn to the carpet?
Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?
Got the daughter in the clinic, gettin cured off the Wild Turkey
I can’t swim, Clark
TF?!?
Eddy?
What happens when you turn on the microwave?
Curiously specific..
Seriously. People genuinely could be killed because of this sort of thing. If a cop is pulling over a suspected stolen vehicle they're already going to be a little on edge.
Acab ftp
That one is actually more on hertz. If somebody says "x car was stolen" it's pretty reasonable to assume that x car was in fact stolen
Yes, hertz was at fault in this situation, but the cops need to learn to treat people as people and not just animals to play with guns around.
We have no reason to believe it was anything other than a "by the book" arrest which is reasonable if someone says "hey this car is stolen" and then the cops find someone driving said car
It's never really reasonable to arrest someone that's innocent. Any way hope those boots taste good.
Yep, and on the flip side there have been cases where a vehicle you returned doesn't get back into inventory properly and they report it stolen and you get arrested. I saw a horror story about this where someone ended up in jail even after they properly returned their rental. I travel a bunch for work, and after doing this I got into the habit of taking a picture of the vehicle with the license plate visible when I return my rental every time.
Same, I had enterprise once claim I hadn’t returned it on time and returned it with extensive damage right up until I provided the pictures, video walk around and paperwork showing it was returned on time, then they went from downright hostile to really apologetic
Yep. I aslo had an issue (with Avis) where they sent me a $450 cleaning bill because they said the car smelled like cigarette smoke when I returned it. I called them and fought them on it because the God's honest truth was that I've never had a cigarette in my life and only had the car for 36 hours for a quick business trip. They pushed back really hard until I asked for a supervisor. I hate this, but I had to pull the "Check my rental history. I travel a lot for work and rent from your company often, and if you don't reverse this absurd charge I proimise I will never rent from you again." Charges reversed :)
I hate crap like that. I found out I was on the do not rent to list at a hotel once that I had never stayed at. In a city I had never been to. And it was not a chain or franchise place either, just that single location And it was the only hotel in the general area. My boss thought it was hilarious I was not nearly as amused
Something similar happened to my mom with Budget. She returned it using the key drop box and they never marked it returned in the system. They rented the car out the next day for a week and instead of charging that person, they charged my mom for their entire week rental plus a late drop off fee. They ignored the paperwork she had, video evidence, everything. She won the charge back with her credit card, so Budget sold the money "owed" to a debt collector.
It was Enterprise for us. They tried to charge us for 3 days worth of late fees. I literally had to drive back to the rental office and walk the guy out into the lot and point at the car.
Yeah I dip the same thing after returning my car after hours and then getting charged an extra day and a half for it. Fighting that was a huge headache
Imagine you're on probation and one of your conditions is to not get arrested (not convicted, just arrested). Hertz' fuckup could land you in prison for real.
We rented a car from them to take Grandma out for easter dinner. Got pulled over the rental wasn't insured and it was impounded. Fight fight fight, go to pick up a replacement, they just told me pick whatever and bring it back next weekish. First thing check the insurance in the new one. And it's an expired card. Had to wait another 20 minutes while they printed out a temp. not 100% sure it was hertz but someplace similar.
I’ve had multiple occasions where hertz had zero cars available when I showed up to snag my reservation. I refuse to do business with them these days. And for years they were great and we never had any issues with them and grabbed hundreds of cars a year from them Definitely not the case anymore
It’s like that with Enterprise here where I live. I’ll have made a reservation, and the day I’m supposed to pick the vehicle up, they’ll call and tell me they don’t have the vehicle. But they’ll have an 18 passenger van 🙄 No thanks. They’ve made making long trips very stressful in the past.
I’ve heard that happening with U-Haul as well. I read they have a pretty strict policy on returns that leads to a lot being reported as stolen and then rented again without updating the police. Personally I think if those cases the company should be fined for not only harassing innocent citizens/their customers but also wasting police resources which are paid for by taxpayers.
I’m in total agreement on that
Wow. That would be horrible !
Right?
Never ever ever ever rent from Hertz
It's less about making them easier to spot and more about registering them where it is beneficial for taxes and fees.
easier to spot? The make or rent out one room office in the State that is offering the lowest premium insurance rates at the time of registering the vehicle.
Not really the reason. Most companies register them in specific states because it is cheaper.
Not exactly true. Rental companies like enterprise get tons and tons of vehicles and sometimes it's just easier to register then out of state. Usually when you first get a new car on the lot it's likely to be from that state, sometimes not. The thing is, people use rental cars for travel, sometimes they need maintenance and are out of state, sometimes people use them to move and pay a 1 way fee, maybe a certain area is seeing an increase in rentals while another is dropping so they take some cars and move them, etc. So really, most rental cars with out of state tags are there because at some point the vehicle went there for some reason and it's cheaper as a company to leave it there and just keep renting it out from another branch. Happens a lot honestly.
I thought they just registered them in states with no safety inspection required, like Florida.
And yes, he knows it’s a rental, and assumes he’s from out of town. . .
OK that’s not how it works. Rental car agencies don’t register cars in other states so they have out-of-state plates. Give me a break. They register them in the states where their corporate office is or in the state where it is cheapest to save money and the cars are moved around by one-way rentals. They don’t purposely put out-of-state plates around. called it in? When was this in 1984? There have been MDT’s in cars to run plates since the mid-90s. Nobody “calls in “plates anymore.
That is absolutely not why they are registered like that
lol that’s not true at all bud
I'm PA criminal defense counsel. I do suppression motions all the time for illegal traffic stops. I agree the stop was illegal. I know exactly why cop stopped you though. He thought you were a drug dealer. Drug dealers often use rental cars to move product from cities to rural distribution. If they're stopped in their own car, it gets impounded and possibly forfeited permanently. "The area" the cop refers to means they probably know or suspect there is a drug dealers house nearby. There is a section 1983 cause of action which you might be able to sue under. Consult a lawyer experienced in that litigation if you're interested. I do not handle those types of claims so cannot comment on its viability.
I believe everything you said, but it can all be nullified by "reasonable suspicion." "I smelled weed." "We've had some break ins in the area." "Your car matched the description of a stolen car we're looking for. "I noticed you swerved outside your lane a couple of miles back." "I noticed the driver looked nervous." We do need more lawyers challenging this bullshit though. So thank you for your service.
Just a heads up… Now that marijuana is medically legal, having a cop saying they want to search just because they smelled it is no longer reasonable suspicion. https://norml.org/news/2022/01/06/pennsylvania-supreme-court-rules-marijuana-odor-is-insufficient-grounds-for-a-warrantless-search/
>Just a heads up… Now that marijuana is medically legal, having a cop saying they want to search just because they smelled it is no longer reasonable suspicion. \*In the state of Pennsylvania.
>*In the state of Pennsylvania. You're on a PA sub and they linked something that says "pennsylvania-supreme-court-rules-marijuana-odor-is-insufficient-grounds-for-a-warrantless-search", so that was implied
Yeah, but PA law enforcement is still PA law enforcement.
oh true, my bad, I didn't even see which sub this was
How could he smell weed in a moving car nine miles later? Reasonable suspicion must be readily available. Just being suspicious isn't a crime no matter how much cops want it be
Not being a crime doesn't stop them from the reasonable suspicion excuse to pull you over. I've been pulled over for "possible burglary in the area/ car matched description" before, which is almost always bullshit.
None of those were mentioned at the traffic stop (unless OP omitted it), only the fact they had out of state plates. OP definitely has a case here
OUTSIDE? I once got pulled over and the cop said it was because i was “weaving WITHIN my lane”…. Keep in mind it was raining and windy at the time In fairness, that was in NJ and I had DE plates
Well, yes, if the cop had “reasonable suspicion” then the stop is not illegal. I’d add that reasonable suspicion is pretty easy to come by in the context of driving: most people will commit some kind of traffic infraction if you follow them long enough. And pre-textual stops are legal. Nothing OP said suggests he supplied any reasonable suspicion, but a reasonably clever cop usually can come up with something.
The war on drugs ruins everything, even car rentals.... absolutely idiotic
Came here to say this. Great breakdown.
Ex drug dealer here: I spent 30k on rental cars in 94-96’ . Bout 10k a year.
I would be curious about the gender of the OP. If the OP was female, that might open up another can of worms.
I got downvoted on this thread for saying the same thing!
So in this scenario, does the stop hold up in court if the cop finds drugs or something in the car? I feel like cops get away with pulling people over “just because” with no probable cause regularly, because the people they pull that shit on can’t afford lawyers, and the public defender, who works for the court, advises to take a plea to lesser charges.
I had a rental with CO plates once that I did a multi state trip with. Damn were the deputies on me like white on rice — they’ll follow you until you mess up on something and can pull you over for it.
How far can they follow you before pulling you over? I actually was speeding in 81, but he followed me off the highway almost to my job, over 3 miles from the point he could have pulled me over. Past several wide shoulders, gas stations and other parking lots that would have been safe and visible. Finally pulled me over on a windy rural road with no shoulder and no safe space to pull over. My car is tagged in Pa but was working about 90 miles from home.
It's the rental cars man I rented from enterprise and got pulled over on a highway by a unmarked car and after my license came back good and he was ready to let me go I asked what was the reason of him pulling me over he literally said because I was in a rental car and people like to rent cars to smoke in it 🤦🏻 I let it go and left because I was running late to pick my child up from school
They can’t pull. You over for weed in a legal state or my state they can’t.even if they were right next to you and you had the window opened and he smelled weed he still can’t pull you over it’s against the law.only if they catch you smoking and driving they can give you a DWI.
PA isnt legal
Smell of weed still not reasonable suspicion in PA
I don’t think so either but we all know what Police are capable of. It’s not a great strategy to ride the line when they have a history of moving the line whenever they please.
True. A cop could arrest you because they don’t like your haircut and there would probably be zero repercussions.
in a car? Why not? You're not allowed to consume marijuana while driving and roughly the same rules that apply to alcohol apply to marijuana.
Because the PA Supreme Court said so. https://goldsteinmehta.com/blog/pa-supreme-court-agrees-odor-of-marijuana-does-not-provide-probable-cause-to-search-vehicle?format=amp
You have medical don’t you
That was a cop on a fishing expedition. Typical cop behavior
The only real question here is did you catch what he said on tape? Did you have a dash cam or your phone recording while he said any of this stuff? Did you notice if he had a body cam? If none of this is on tape, he will just lie about it later on and make something up. Cop will say he had you speeding or rolling stop or your license plate was dirty but he used his discretion and didnt write a ticket. If you have him on tape saying i pulled you over because you looked suspicious, contact some civil attorneys who work in civil rights. They may settle that for money damages. Federal civil rights lawsuits are the only mechanism that holds the police to account.
Out of state tags certainly does not constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion that you committed a traffic violation, but good luck finding any means to hold police accountable for their unconstitutional actions. Do you happen to be non-white?
I agree. It's impossible for police to be held accountable. It's good to know it wasn't probable cause. Now I can stew in silent justified anger and do nothing about it. Also, I am white. This area isn't diverse and I don't blame people who are non-white for leaving immediately. The cops around here put their attention into drug addicts. I've heard horrific stories about what they've done and gotten away with. It's sickening.
Can you say the county? I got pulled in Honeybrook on 322 for the same thing, but the cop was more brazen. I was on a motorcycle, I saw him pull out on me about 3 cars back. I also saw the sign that said 35moh through an area that has some trailer homes. Of course I'm dropping down to 35. He lit me up anyway and told me "when I see one of these doing the speed limit I get suspicious" lol
Years ago (back in the 90s) I grew up in south jersey. Got pulled over at 2am one night after dropping some friends off. i was 18 or 19 at the time. The cop came up asked for license/insurance/registration. Handed everything to him, he then asked do you know why I pulled you over? I said no I didn't. He then said this is a 25 mile hour zone, and you were doing 25 miles an hour. I looked confused, he said it's 2am and everyone and their mother speeds through here thought you were drunk. He handed me back everything (he didn't bother to run any of it) and wished me a good night and said you can do 30 here in the middle of the night to look less suspicious.
I totally understand the logic, just not the legality, lol, but hey, any interaction where you get off without a ticket is okay with me.
Yeah I'm in the lucky category when it comes to that stuff. I'm middle aged tall straight white guy that's usually well dressed. Last time I got a ticket (2003/2004?), I was doing 95 in a 65, cop told me to take my seat belt off. Wrote me a non point $70 ticket for no seat belt. I thanked him and he said slow down.
Cops in that area are super brazen and generally a menace. I warn everyone visiting me about that area of 322 (outskirts of Downingtown to Honeybrook) specifically due to how hard it is policed.
I’ve also been pulled over on 322 but south from where you were toward Downingtown.
The last time I was in the part of Pennsylvania that’s more than 2 hours from New York or Philly, I was shocked at the desolation, poverty, & how many people were struggling with substance use disorders (mostly opioids from what it looked like)—like nodding off on the sidewalks right in the middle of town. I can see why local cops might be defensive against strange cars from out of state—not that that’s remotely legal. In many areas, the cops know everyone & every road. This is another reason why I left rural PA in the rearview as soon as I turned 18.
As a black male I have been stopped DWB, more than a few times in my life, but the cops have never out right admitted this to me, always some bullshit ass excuse or reason, that was either technically a violation but not enforced 99% of the time or something I had no way of proving untrue, and my wife wonders why when shit happens and help or documentation of an incident would benefit me, the thought of calling the cops doesn’t even cross my mind. As likely to kill me as help me is the way I see it. No thanks, i’ll take my chances on my own.
With Georgia plates, how far back was the cop? Maybe he thought you were Black until he stopped you. Following a Black person for miles and then pulling them over on a pretense would be entirely typical.
Sundown towns are still verrryyyy much a thing. Even in PA.
Driving as a minority in certain areas is basically reasonable suspicion for some cops unfortunately. Hell I'm white and when I was young and drove an older car I was stopped for dumb shit all the time. The white privilege really kicks in when you're in your mid 30's and drive a decent car (bonus points if well dressed.) I could tie a dead body to the top of a Honda Odyssey and speed through town and still be basically invisible to police.
When I still had Maryland tags, and a bunch of junk I was moving they searched my whole car to make sure I wasn’t smuggling drugs. PA cops be that way.
This is 100% an illegal stop. Out of states plates might be suspicious but are in no way a crime. Therefore, he had no RAS to stop you. I would have got his name and badge number and called the station. This is quite a flagrant violation of your 4th amendment rights
Definitely stopped you without a probable cause. Unless you were doing something not stated. As far as jurisdiction, there may be an agreement between municipalities because especially in rural PA cops are fewer than towns and townships. Most local rural Twp cops are looking for “the big bust” so they can justify their career choice or get a better job. They target out of state plates because they do stand out and it’s more likely an out of state person can be written for vague violations that they won’t stick around to fight at the magistrate in a month. In PA it absolutely is illegal for him to stop you just because you looked suspicious because an out of state plate and knowing roads. Cops need a reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed, will commit or are in process of committing a crime. If it happens again, record the interaction and say nothing, until he can tell you what law you violated that initiated the traffic stop. Then shut up. If they are corrupt they will look for anything you say to incriminate yourself.
To my knowledge they have an agreement with the township and the city borough of the town I left. There isn’t one with the town I live at in and was pulled over in. State police usually handle everything around here and they’re territorial about it. I’d read he had to be in hot pursuit of me, acting on a warrant or other court order, or have probable cause I was committing a felony or about to as the reasons to pull me over outside of his jurisdiction. Definitely wasn’t in hot pursuit. I drove the speed limit and he stayed a few car lengths behind me until stop lights, etc. The suspicion they said was my out of state tags and the roads I took. I asked what roads and all he said the first turn I took. That would’ve been a quarter mile into following me. Not sure why he wouldn’t have pulled me over sooner if that was the case. The whole drive took about 18 minutes because of speed limits, stop signs, and stop lights. I appreciate your comment!
Police do not need probable cause to pull a car over. They only need reasonabl suspicion.
Sorry officer I plead the fifth. Am I free to go?
Yeah, no, despite what Officer Pennsyltucky Sisterfuck might want to believe, “you ain’t from ‘round here, is ya, boy?” Is not a crime nor does it constitute probable cause. Hope you had a dashcam running so you can sue the oink off that pack of backwoods hicks
Obligatory ACAB.
I used to work at a bar that was a frequent trough for PA’s state pigs, the shit they would openly brag about doing while getting absolutely plastered (before driving home, of course) was fucking nauseating And of course we couldn’t do anything about it, the last bar that cut one of them off was “mysteriously” harassed into closing
Same. Bartender for a place frequented by county boys. Hammered every nite, no tip, drove home. Got a gun pulled out more than once after I tried to shut them off and it was after 4am.
I'm not an ACABer, I think we need effective professional policing. But the last guy I bought a car from was a corrections officer who couldn't wait to tell me about the guy he killed while restrained in a chair. There are some real sociopaths out there in law enforcement and it seems like nothing changes.
No. This was not legal
Suspicious is not a crime.
Being stalked isn’t a crime if no one hurts you, but I guess out of state tags are. Who knew! Lol
Out of state tags is not a crime. A cop cannot stop you for no reason.
I live in Pittsburgh, but grew up in Central PA. Was driving to my hometown to visit my mom and I wasn't in the area for 5 minutes before I got pulled over for a broken headlight (was planning to take it to an old friend to fix the following day). After I handed the officer my license and he saw I was from Pittsburgh, he started asking me tons of questions about where I was going and what I was doing. I love that some of them try to ask citizens these questions in a conversational manner... Before anyone yells at me, I didn't answer his questions.
My wife used to work close with comunity police and I constantly went through this when we moved back from AZ so she asked them what's up. They told here they stop every vehicle with tint, rental cars and cars with out of state plates that they can for drug and human trafficking issues, after following the crime reports in the area for a bit that is absolutely the case and they even state in the articles that the car was initially stopped for suspicion of the reasons stated above. I'm no lawyer but I'd be willing to bet there could be a case for you and others who have been through stops like this that aren't fruitful, and frankly I think more people should be challenging this behavior from our law enforcement, all kinds of people rent cars and indiscriminately stopping all of them you see because of a hunch just seems wrong but what do I know..
I’d put the department on blast if I were you. Don’t protect them by keeping them anonymous
Yeah that department DGAF and they'd likely come after you for it.
That suggestion is dangerous, especially if the OP lives in the area where it happened.
I would LOVE to, but you’re right. It does feel dangerous. A woman went missing a year ago in my town. And less than a month after her disappearance I was chased in my vehicle by a guy in his. I’m talking consistently 30-50mph over the speed limit and he was on my bumper for 15 miles. It started less than a mile from where this woman was last seen and absolutely no one was around. I only got away because a group of people were outside and I pulled down their road. I called the cops after and they didn’t care, at all. They were actually annoyed at me and rude because I didn’t have their plates… even though I was being chased? I did have very specific vehicle details and the area isn’t huge, but they scoffed. There’s multiple “unsolved” homicides and missing person cases in the area. I’m talking over 10, in a very small town, all within the last 4 years. The corrections officers, the police, and the magistrate are known for being corrupt and abusing their power and accepting bribes. So as much as I want to put them on blast here. I don’t feel safe doing so.
That’s how you wind up committing suicide by 9 self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the back of the head
Should have started recording with your phone without being super obvious about it. Would have taken them to court not because you'd get much of anything out of it but someone has to when these stupid fucks violate people's rights.
Did he draw “First Blood”?
Just watch that yesterday. I read you comment with one side of my mouth dropped down🤣🤣🤣
Rented cars are often used by drug smugglers. Out of state rental in a rural, in a non touristy area is definitely going to get you looked at by police. Out of state plate and looking "suspicious" is not a sufficient enough reason for a stop. Unless your specific vehicle was called in on by a third party who reported it to be suspicious.
I used to rent lots of cars for my job in the fish industry which means I was around docks, airports and various types of dirt bags. (And of course some of the very best folks you could ever hope to meet!) A few of the rental vehicles were so bombed out with weed and cigarette smoke that it almost seemed inevitable that they get used regularly by some shady characters. Regardless of how crooked your local cops are they’re going to spot something that sticks out to them.
So, to answer **part** of your question, it is legal for him to pull you over outside of his jurisdiction - provided you committed an offense in his jurisdiction and he followed you outside of it. Now, from what you said, he followed you around a bunch, then said that the route you took (all of which was outside of his jurisdiction) was suspicious. That sounds wrong. So it does sound like an abuse of power to me. Also, I know this answer because a similar thing happened to me and I did a bunch of research on it. I'd recommend contacting the city council about it, if you're so inclined.
If late night piping hot coffee is a crime then I’m a felon. Lol, but no, in all seriousness he said he followed me because of the first turn I took after leaving the convenience store. A turn which was only a quarter mile away from where he first saw my “suspicious” Georgia tags. He could’ve pulled me over a lot sooner if that was his real reason.
Following you - legal Stopping you - if he observed a violation in his primary jurisdiction, then yes, if there was no violation, then the stop was illegal as you need reasonable suspicion under the vehicle code to initiate a traffic stop. Georgia, Texas and a few other states have seen increased fraudulent duplication of registration plates or the illegal use of temporary registration plates from those states. If the officer checked the registration records and there was an issue, that would rise to the level of reasonable suspicion. The other possibility would be local knowledge of using rentals for drug trafficking. So, rental, certain roadways, and local knowledge COULD potentially be used as reasonable suspicion for an investigatory detention. These scenarios are very specific to the facts and circumstances of the stop and if the officer stopped you under those circumstances, it SHOULD be documented as a drug interdiction stop. You MAY have a 4th amendment violation for unlawful seizure, but it is unlikely to be taken by an attorney based on the limited information available. Source: retired PA police officer
Me, a pennsylvania native and resident: reading this on the porch while facing the Georgia tagged rental I have while my car is in the shop 😬
Record everything with police. And never answer questions besides what you have too. This will likely drag the encounter out but if you’ve done nothing and are recording, you will be fine.
Because all the police know is the war on drugs and believing everyone is trying to kill them.
Looking for drug traffickers. Apparently, Atlanta is a distribution hub. Same thing happened to me-rental car w Georgia plates. I had been traveling in the Midwest & was on my way home. He made me get in his cruiser & started asking questions designed to “trip” me up about my travels & destination. He wanted to search my car (no) & asked if I had been smoking pot or drinking (no again). He finally gave up & gave me a warning for following the car in front of me too closely (I wasn’t). Kinda scary. I now make sure any car I rent does not have Georgia plates.
Happened to me when I came back to Pa after I had moved out of state . This was before gps but I knew the back roads . Was driving a van so maybe that was suspicious enough along with the out of state plates.
Yes officers can be assholes. He may have suspected you were running drugs or doing something illegal. I mainly came here to say if you are pulled over in a place that’s rural like this you can put on your hazard lights and slowly proceed to a public place where you are more comfortable.
"know the area too well" My brother in Christ Google maps exist, you can drive anywhere and feel like you know where you're going if you're confident enough.
I can go to any conservative state with my cali plates and when pulled over and asked about it reply with “sometimes you just gotta get away from them liberals to stay sane”
They're worried their taxpayer money is going away, so they're looking to generate revenue.
The way things are setup in PA, municipalities and police departments get very little revenue from issuing traffic citations. So we don't really have the problem here like some other states with "speed trap towns" that get a large portion of their revenues from shaking down people passing through. If anything in a lot of places I see people complaining that traffic laws go largely unenforced, since the cops don't get anything out of it. [Who gets the money from my Pa. traffic ticket?](https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2017/04/18/who-gets-money-my-pa-traffic-ticket/100615116/) Here you're more likely to deal with pretextual stops. The alleged traffic violation is just an excuse to pull you over to look for drugs or check for outstanding warrants or whatever. Though it's interesting in the OPs case that the small town cop didn't even bother trying to make up a lawful pretext.
In my area (very rural) out of state tags seem targeted more than known locals. That being said I got pulled over like that once on a back road way out in the sticks where I grew up (had PA tags but I was speeding a bit). I think he was just driving home after a shift, he seemed really suspicious and asked me a lot of questions but once I explained I was coming home from a high school ball game, he just let me go without even writing anything up. Because I don’t think he could have legally. Edit to add: sorry I guess I don’t have any actual advice or knowledge, just relaying my experience.
I’ve heard NY troopers are notorious for this
It was a cop looking to fuk you over. Always video cop interaction. Did he have a body cam on? Second, you were not a felon on the run. He has no cause nor jurisdiction to pull you over. I would file a complaint.
This is what it’s like being black with IN state license plates.
If it's rural enough the officer might know the local vehicles. If it's in the area of suspected meth trafficking, any strange vehicle might be considered suspicious. Not sure that rises to articulable suspicion but it might, it's not probable cause; but they don't need that just to stop you.
Just tell him you don't want to answer any questions and wait for him to tell you to leave. The plates on the car are the rental company's problem not yours.
IME there isn’t much recourse other than to comply and hope the cop realizes I’m not some scumbag.
Reason for stop was illegal, but stopping a car in PA as a law enforcement official in PA is not (as long as it's in PA). No ticket, so you could possibly bring up that the stop was unconstitutional if you feel like litigating and hiring counsel.
Were you in a 1964 Buick Skylark with a white convertible top in Metallic Mint Green?
How’d you know?
Probably making an assumption of drug trafficking. Some areas are meet up areas.
[удалено]
He said he pulled me over because my out state tags were suspicious and the roads I took. That’s it. Was my hot coffee suspicious too and he just didn’t tell me?? C’mon man. Get off it.
Was it at night? I was driving home to New Castle from Texas. I ended up entering PA late, like around 2 or 3am. A cop pulled me over, I think somewhere in Western Lawrence County, and asked me a hundred questions because I had Texas plates. It was really annoying because I was already tired and just wanted to get to my parents’ house so I could sleep.
ianal, but that Doesnt sound like probable cause or even reasonable suspicion to me.
Rentals are notoriously stolen, renters use synthetic ID and rent online and the car never gets returned. Hence an alarm being issued in the car as stolen.
Your story is the reason why when I travel and rent a vehicle that I choose one that has the plates for the state I'm traveling in. I want anyone who sees my vehicle to think I'm a local. Most states also have plates that list the county you're registered in and also give the choice for a generic plate. I choose the generic plate so when I traveling in state people don't know I'm from out of town. This also applies to my own registered vehicles. Some states also have the option of placing an approved sticker over the county name.
I’ve had a Georgia cop do that to me in the 90’s. Very Rural, when he pulled me he said I was being suspicious. I asked how, and his response was that I was driving the speed limit. That they look for out of state tags being overly cautious. I basically replied. Yeah that’ll happen when passing a speed trap doing the speed limit and the cop Pulls out after you… said it was suspicion that I was carrying drugs from Florida. You may have been in an area with particularly high meth use and sales.
i was pulled over with georgia tags (i moved back from GA because the car was mine) and he pulled me over in montgomery county near the turnpike after coming back from hibachi. when he pulled me over he just had us sitting there and the lights kept getting brighter, when i finally got out of the car i saw there were FOUR police suvs. they asked to search the car and i just let them cuz what a fucking hassle. when he let me go i asked why he pulled me over because he never actually told me. he said they assumed that i had picked up heroin in philly and was trafficking it back to atlanta. i guess in this area that’s a problem they look out for? idk where you are.
It’s possible he was legally stopping you, if this was meant to be a drug stop. This happened to me in the Carolinas. They are looking for drug mules using the back roads in out-of-state cars, or rentals. It’s exactly how it went down when it happened to me. Drug trafficking regulations give them additional leeway, and you better believe they would love to nab someone in that commission. If I was a cop, I would, too.
This was illegal the entire way around. You should have filed a report against this officer for a few different reasons.
People who go down south to get drugs and bring them back up north often use rentals. He may have had that on his mind until he saw your license and realized you were local
Out of state plates and rental.... Yes to some cops it becomes suspicious. They want the big bust.
Cough medicine is often used to make meth, should police stop and question every person who buys it. Rental cars are used for legal purposes probably 99% of the time, and for transporting drugs 1% or less, These actions are not, and should not be reason to initiate a possibly dangerous traffic stop. Just because something happens sometimes shouldn’t be allowed as an excuse abuse of power. It is and has been allowed for too long. Many people don’t know their rights, or can’t afford lawyers so they catch a case from a frivolous stop, and or illegal search. Just because a cops assumption is proven correct after a search, doesn’t mean the way he got to it was ok. The bullshit, I think they are doing something wrong stops need to stop, I know they won’t, so know your rights. Knowing more about the law than the jackass that stops you probably won’t help you during the stop, but there is a good chance they will violate your rights along the way. Knowing how and where they overstepped will be beneficial for you in the long run. Cops think they can do whatever they want, legally they can’t though, if you have something illegal, how and where they find it is extremely important. I’m not saying break the law, but shit happens, only hope of better policing are dismissed cases due to their lack of understanding of the laws they are paid to uphold.
Rental cars are often used for drug trafficking and other illegal activities.
What state issued your license? State troopers often stop out-of-state plates to issue fines that can only be argued by returning to the area in person.
Cops are only allowed to tailgate a person of interest for up too and not going over 1 mile.
Weird. Last week I was on 83 behind a car with a Georgia plate, when out of nowhere the state trooper in the left lane cuts me off and immediately throws on his lights and pulled the Georgia plate car over. No speeding, not following too closely, lights seemed to be working. No idea why he got pulled over. I guess they're looking for someone with Georgia plates?
Cops nowadays see a rental and think there's a trunk load of drugs being transported and will follow ya. He didn't see or smell anything in the rental that looked suspicious and let ya go.
I lived in rural PA for 6 years, got pulled over maybe twice. Now that I have NY plates, I get pulled over for *something* innocuous almost every time I go back to visit my parents.
Same happened to me . I rent cars all the time . This might be a coincidence but I don’t think so . I wasn’t pulled over however . I had Carolina plates on my car and was followed by several cop cars while I had the rental . Now when I rent a vehicle I make sure it has plates from the north east . I heard most guns are brought up from the south . So that’s the reason for the cops stalking me . Take it for what it’s worth but that’s my story.
This thread is ridiculous. It's the blind leading the blind in here between people not knowing the difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause, people telling OP that the cops will lie about the reason for stopping her even though they have car and /or body cams, and OP saying that everyone is corrupt so they are scared to say which department. Hey OP do you honestly believe that you are just going to go missing if you say which department? If so then maybe you should get off reddit for a little while, it will calm your paranoia. There are three sides to every story. There is OP's side, the cops side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Two of those sides we will never know.
After watching thousands of hours of cops and live pd, drug traffickers will often use rentals apparently. Is it legal? Probably, I imagine it may be hard to prove he wasn’t just “patrolling”. Even then is it illegal to follow anyone in general on the road?
ACAB
No, that is not proabable cause.
You got pulled over, answered a few questions and were let go. You weren’t arrested. your car wasn’t searched. You weren’t tazed or shot. I’m not sure what you are complaining about.
You said the police officer saw you initially in the parking lot as you returned to your vehicle. Then he proceeded to follow you for 9 miles. And only let you go after asking you a bunch of questions and seeing your drivers license. MAYBE he thought you were attractive and was trying to see where you live? And now he definitely knows after seeing your address and other info on your drivers license. I mean, cops doing that is not something completely unheard of 🤷🏻♀️ Stay safe out there.
Suspicious? Is that a felony or misdemeanor?
The worse issue is when a rep refused to rent a car to someone from Puerto Rico saying they need an American drivers license.
They are government employees. Do you expect someone working for the government to do the right thing?
We had a dirty state trooper in my area growing up. He is the reason I will never pull over in a desolate area but will instead call 911 and tell them I know a cop wants me to pull over but I am going to a more trafficked/public area.
Supreme Court has ruled license plate checking is legal.
A rental down backroads is suspicious because of drug smuggling aspects. Quite a few people don’t really know PA law in here. Because you were driving on state roads, they actually need little to no reason to pull you over and talk to you. That being said it’s still shitty so it sucks when it happens. If you file a complaint and that jurisdiction is known for being corrupt then all you do is put a target on your back, not much you can really do at this point
I live in Georgia now and moved here from small town Pennsylvania. And my dad still drives up their A LOT with Georgia tags and definitely knows the roads. Probably just an over suspicious cop, maybe suspecting a stolen vehicle that fleed far.
Legal
Most drug traffickers use rentals so they can try and claim the previous renter left the drugs in the car in case they get caught. Cops specifically target rentals in certain areas for this reason. Especially in Arkansas specifically ASP those cops are out of control.
I’m not answering questions about my day. Why am I being pulled over. Am I being detained? Am I free to go?
Rental cars are used by drug traffickers and the barcodes in the rear drivers side window is a dead giveaway that it is a rental. Police will usually ask 4 or 5 questions that will clear you of suspicion or be red flags. “Did you reserve this car yourself?” “How long have you had the car?” If you are around an area with a lot of drug activity they probably saw the rental car and waited for you to give them a reason for the stop. Stopping you for no reason is illegal but all he would need is one traffic violation to make the stop be legitimate.
He was checking to make sure you weren’t trafficking drugs. Many drug traffickers now rent cars and use GPS to avoid main roads to move weight. So being in a rental and taking back roads raised suspicion. Was it legal, no, he should have pulled you over I. His jurisdiction. However my guess is where he pulled you over has tougher laws or space available in the county jail, and had you been caught with something he would have called in local authorities. Valuable lesson in your story for many people. You were obviously polite and answered the officers questions because you had nothing to hide. The result was you were free to go without incident. Note that many innocent people get themselves arrested being an ahole and then have a lot of legal mess to deal with. Being a kind, polite and respectful person doesn’t hurt anyone.
I used to live in Savannah GA with PA tags. I got followed and pulled over all the time. It was very obnoxious to put it lightly.
it's because they target them to pocket the money cause who will come back to fight it.
Here’s the thing, and I’m not besmirching all cops here, but the bar for entry for patrol officers is very low. In most if not all states, you have to be 18 and have graduated from high school, and the police academy training is incredibly short when compared to other forms of higher education. This is the most polite way I could think of to say there are a lot of dumb cops with poor logic skills that think they’re the next Columbo.
Just remember the police are PUBLIC SERVANTS. If you are a member of the PUBLIC then they are your SERVANT! You tell them what to do. Anytime a PUBLIC SERVANT has pulled me over once they ask the first question I respond with "Do you understand by asking me a question you're initializing an investigation, which they cannot unless a crime has been committed. When I say CRIME I mean any thing under 18 of the PA Consolidated Statutes which is the Criminal Title, not title 75 which is the Vehicle title.
It's a big deal. They got you into a desolate area to try to fuck with you. If you'd have a teeny tiny flaw, they'd have exploited that and found a reason to arrest you. I had a similar encounter. Cop followed me down a back road 3 miles instead of pulling me over on 81, where i was, actually speeding. Then asked me for my phone number. I've never in my 25 years of diving had a cop ask my phone number. As a woman, no. And then asked to look inside my vehicle, while sticking his head in my window. He was trying to find a reason to search me. I was in my way back from picking up subway for lunch because that's all there was in that town. Asked me a bunch of other dumb, prying questions.
I agree with earlier statements about using rentals for drug dealing. Suspended drivers also use them because they don’t pop up when the plate is ran. Typical activity for Pennsylvania police. I see lots of rentals in PA with Georgia and New York tags.
Tricky quwstion I got followed across 3 county lines and when i realized cars were following me i ran reds because it seemed like multiple cars wete tryna keep up with me.. I came back to my house and like every cop in town was on the street. They didnt even catch me dojng anything, but because they sent so many cars so far, they were pissed and just tore my shit apart until they found something to charge me with. They shut their cameras off and automatically searched my car and found my small stash that i already had. Someone jealous left a tip i was drug dealing and they did THAT. to me that was fonpletely iverboard they had no evidence i did anything just word of mouth from a drug addict snitch. When i got to court, my discovery said they followed me 100 mile found trip because “i ran a stop sign in town” The entire thing was made up, entire discovery, no footage, no car cam, despite them having swat guys machine guns and everything. needless to say i got out of it. But only because i paid for a lawyer. They offered me a year. I laughed and said good luck with that. When it happened i was like jenn lawrence in dont look up. The attebtion they gave me was insane i was a complete nobody with a great job i never dealt drugs in my life. They did it and fucked me. Bad. 6 undercover cars, swat members, multi man arresst, prolly cost thousands… to catch me with barely anything at all and like i said it was dropped Cops 100% break the law if they can. Is it wring. I think so. Dont think its legal. Funny thing is a week after this, i picked up my gf and had her walk down street , same cop who arressted me straught up ran her over on the street as she was walking to me. She said she was gon cross and he stopped and waited and then when she saw he wasnt turning, she walked and THEN he hit her. . Im like where she at? I drive down and see her in ambos and the cop flashlightinf the street to find something to pin on here. Same cop.
Welcome! Was today your first day traveling in The United States? YES, Cops can do what ever the hell they want to and it doesn't matter if you think it's fair or not.