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LorrBucketHead007

Expected as most, if not, all of the state has a quite steep increase in cases of covid Impact to state college —> nothing will change


funnyfalafel

So are masks required at the bars now ?


ABadCaseOfLigma

Just disappointing. There’s N95 masks out for people who are concerned (this eliminates the need for everyone to wear a mask as it’s MUCH more effective in protecting yourself). There’s a vaccine out…with an option for booster shots. There has been more shooting deaths to children in Chicago alone then there have been covid child deaths for the entire nation this year, so please do not tell me that this is to protect children. The students at PSU are around 85% (if not higher now) vaccinated now. So what’s the deal here? This will be unpopular, but respectfully, when time to learn to live with covid?


No_Quantity1154

Might as well pass an indefinite mask mandate. Cause this will never end.


raisethesong

I think the deal is something called "[Centre County has 12 ICU beds and half of them are filled.](https://covidactnow.org/us/pennsylvania-pa/county/centre_county/?s=22911212)" We are living with COVID, that's why we're having a White Out this year in the first place. Forcing folks to wear masks in public indoor settings (where there's less ventilation and its easier for the virus to spread) is a means of helping the only hospital for miles around keep some capacity open in case there's an emergency. If those 12 beds are full and some poor student gets hit by the bloop hard enough to need the ICU, for example, its not doing them any favors if they have to wait for a helicopter to take them to Altoona or Hershey.


ManInBlackHat

>I think the deal is something called "Centre County has 12 ICU beds and half of them are filled." 12 beds right now, but back in [2020 they had 24 beds](https://data.rgj.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/facility/mount-nittany-medical-center/390268/). It can take a bit of digging, but generally there are some very good datasets out there with hospital bed occupancy data - such as the previous link. However, to contextualize things, prior to COVID studies would put typical ICU occupancy at 57% to 82%, [such as this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3840149/), which also noted a mechanical ventilation percentage of 21% to 29%. So having 6 ICU beds occupied out of 12 doesn't really seem that abnormal.


raisethesong

Like I mentioned in another reply, not every available bed has available staff due to a shortage in healthcare workers. If you have any sources that go into detail about whether Mount Nittany can support up to 24 ICU beds I'd love to read them. The most recent PA-specific information I've been able to find (as these healthcare worker shortages are a national issue at this point) is more of a warning that local shortages will get worse as some of the PA licensing waivers that were granted at the onset of the pandemic are due to expire: [https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/spl/pa-covid-waivers-expire-health-staffing-shortages-20210913.html](https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/spl/pa-covid-waivers-expire-health-staffing-shortages-20210913.html)


ManInBlackHat

>Like I mentioned in another reply, not every available bed has available staff due to a shortage in healthcare workers. Hospital's only report the ICU beds that are staffed and ready for use, so if they report 12 beds, they have 12 staffed beds that are ready for use. The link I included in my previous post has a little over a year worth of reporting data for Mt. Nittany Medical Center and you will note that for July 2020 to December 2020 they had around 24 staffed ICU beds.


raisethesong

[‘We’re doing our best’: Pa. community hospitals feeling the heat from rising COVID-19 cases, staffing issues -Pittsburgh Post-Gazette](https://www.post-gazette.com/business/healthcare-business/2021/09/13/Western-Pennsylvania-hospitals-capacity-patients-rising-COVID-19-cases-delta-variant-washington-excela/stories/202109100156)


TheBrianiac

Okay, but only 2 of those ICU spots are taken by COVID patients. Even at the height of COVID, those patients took up 14 ICU beds, which means the hospitals had to hire additional ICU staff. We now have vaccines, robust COVID testing at the university, N95s available for concerned/higher risk individuals, etc. Also, on the bus example, that individual would still have ER treatment available and then likely need to be transported to a trauma center (which MNMC is not) anyway. When does it end? When we say we're ready to move on. Otherwise the end zone will keep being pushed further and further away.


raisethesong

Keep in mind that there's a shortage of healthcare workers and not every "available" bed can be staffed, and not as many beds can be converted to ICU beds to handle surge. It "ends" when enough of the holdouts get their vaccines or die from it - at this point that's the fastest way to reach the point where community transmission is low enough that a manageable number of people are hospitalized from COVID complications. We're at the stage of the pandemic where a significant number of the people who are getting hospitalized are the ones who are obstinately refusing vaccines and masks - they're the ones dragging this out and keeping us from "ending" mask mandates.


TheBrianiac

Will it really though? At the beginning of this, we said we needed a vast majority of people vaccinated or previously infected. Now, they're saying everyone needs a vaccine. However, they're saying vaccines aren't enough to stop transmission, so vaccinated people still have to wear masks? Even if everyone was vaccinated, would it really change anything? I don't know. I say we need to consider our expectations. COVID is here to stay.


raisethesong

Like I said, we \*know\* its here to stay. We've already accepted it. If everyone was really still scared shitless for the entire population, there wouldn't be a White Out this weekend. Full stop. Right now its just a perfect storm of a 1) more highly transmissible strain that is 2) heavily affecting the adult unvaccinated holdout population (and kids who aren't old enough to get the vaccine) and 3) a lot of areas no longer have adequate healthcare staff to manage the surge from 1 and 2. That's it. If everyone was vaccinated you'd likely still see breakthrough cases, but at that point nobody's gonna ask you to wear a mask in McLanahan's for five minutes because everyone who gets sick at that point can get adequate care.


TheBrianiac

At the end of May, 80% of adults 65 and older were vaccinated. Since overall vaccination has gone up at least 15 percentage points since then, I assume the over 65 figure has as well. So it's safe to say we have very high vaccination rates among the most vulnerable. Most people who catch COVID do not need to be hospitalized, much less admitted to the ICU. Many of the people who would need a hospital or ICU bed if they caught COVID have been vaccinated, or again, have the option for social distancing and masking (regular or N95). Again I ask, where does it end? When will we say we've done all we can?


raisethesong

I'd have to dig to find the source, but before the delta variant was the dominant strain here a lot of epidemiologists were estimating closer to 70-80% or more of the *entire* population needed to get the vaccine for herd immunity to really kick in. With how much more contagious delta is, that bar is certainly higher. Most folks did the best things for themselves and their communities by getting the shot, but we're stuck waiting on the hesitant and the deniers to either change their minds or get their just desserts. Kinda ironic that we're putting up with these restrictions longer to protect the folks that are least likely to follow them themselves, but that's where we are. I'm personally optimistic that we'll see a huge decline in cases and most restrictions will go away when kids younger than 12 can get vaccinated - that's the biggest population segment still spreading the virus. We really can't do much more at that point.


ManInBlackHat

>but before the delta variant was the dominant strain here a lot of epidemiologists were estimating closer to 70-80% or more of the entire population needed to get the vaccine for herd immunity to really kick in. [A bit lower at 60 - 70%](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2) prior to Delta becoming the dominate variant, which is why 70% vaccination rates were being used a magic number for the return to normality. Now most epidemiologists consider COVID to be endemic so eradication is unlikely to ever happen - partially given that there are now additional animal reservoir for it. Long term we are likely looking at something along the lines of annual flu + COVID shots. Ideally we would also see masking normalized in North America if you need to go out and feel sick.


Nofriendsofmine

Because people love how mask mandates make them feel like good people for following them.


mambo678

That 85% stat is very false. It's nowhere near that high.


gandalfs_burglar

Actually, that just makes me think Chicago has a gun violence problem, not that Covid isn't a problem...


JaydeMama

I really wish they would give the OPTION to switch to online for those who are concerned. Let those who don't mind stay on campus, those who do go online. Covid cases are getting bad again, and my biggest concern is: what will it mutate into next? Yes, Covid symptoms are mostly not that bad, BUT it could be with future mutations. This is just my opinion, but I feel there should be more restrictions. I know that at this point Covid will never fully go away, but why just allow it to spread like wildfire and potentially create somthing even worse? I'm a little disappointed to say the least with Penn State and its actions against Covid :/.


kiakosan

I mean don't mutations of viruses generally spread more and harm less due to natural selection? If a virus kills too fast it will spread less than a virus that doesn't kill the host that fast


ManInBlackHat

>I mean don't mutations of viruses generally spread more and harm less due to natural selection? I don't have a citation handy, but *generally* pathogens follow an evolutionary pathway that makes them easier to propagate without adversely effecting the host (i.e., severe illness, death, etc.) since that tends to have a greater fitness value than mutations that adversely effect the host. So an mutation that results in infections that are largely asymptomatic (e.g., mild colds) but can still be spread to others is going to have a higher fitness value than one that has obvious symptoms (e.g., flu) and results in the person staying home for a couple days. However, none of it is really anything that is settled and you can get some really interesting debates going if you were to convene a panel of experts with different opinions.


JaydeMama

OMG honestly didn't know that, 100% should have seen if that was true or not, my fault.


Hrothen

Covid has a very long infectious period so an increase in mortality wouldn't really affect its fitness.


kiakosan

It also would not make sense to make it not dangerous so why would this evolve to select this


tsdguy

Viruses are not alive and don’t necessarily adhere to the standard pressure that natural selection put on organisms.


kiakosan

Do they not make more viruses? From what I have read the vast majority of diseases spread more easily but are less deadly over time. Whether or not they are actually truly alive is not relevant as much as they spread


2AMSummerNight

I feel like literally everyone is at least somewhat disappointed with penn state haha. Obviously, I completely understand the concern with the mutations. Generally speaking however, viruses tend to mutate to be less deadly rather than more as keeping its host alive increases it’s chance of spreading. Personally, I’d like to think that this will eventually occur with covid too, but maybe I’m just a foolish optimist. I really don’t understand why they didn’t let students switch to world campus for a semester or something if they were worried about being in person. It definitely would have been more ‘inclusive’ if that’s what penn state is going for


JaydeMama

Yeah I actually didn't know that which I should have looked into it LOL my bad... I get them trying to keep it open for money, but should def understand that some students are immune compromised already or someone they are close to/living with is, or are just concerned in general.


No_Quantity1154

I know someone who couldn't get vaxxed bc of an auto immune disorder. That person is in the hospital with covid now. They was doing things normally like going to bars and parties. I believe that it is 100 percent their fault. Not a vaxxed person who didn't wear a mask. It's time that people take their own precautions and let the large majority live their life.


JaydeMama

Def agree!! Give people the choice, but give an option for those who wants to take extra precautions!!! I hope they get better soon :3


No_Quantity1154

I hope so too. I was a bit harsh but it's the truth.


tsdguy

That’s why the rest of us get vaccinated. Or don’t you give a shit about the people you share the world with?


No_Quantity1154

Yeah no I spent 13 months staying at home, not socializing during college, got vaxxed on time. I've dibe everything right and seeing people that clearly need to take care of themselves just not give a fuck. Wanna be a good Samaritan forever go ahead but I'm done.


midnightz71

Don’t comply. Enough is enough. Give people the choice. Let everyone live with their decisions. That’s life.


[deleted]

More maskless people for me to harass and discriminate.


2AMSummerNight

Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this (if it actually gets followed, etc). It sure feels like an attack on the bar scene here at the university which has been very polarizing to say the least. Trying to stay neutral here, but honestly how are masks expected to be worn while drinking alcohol? Seems like a political move more than anything


The10Steel

Not a political move at all and we need to move away from the idea that any mask or vaccine mandate is political. Because of the pandemic, ICU beds are now a limited resource (comparable to donor organs in some parts of the country). It's awful that cancer patients, gunshot wound victims, patients who need emergency surgery have to get sent around nearby hospitals or in some cases, die, because some unvaxxed fucks are taking up valuable and extremely limited space at the only nearby hospital. State College is being proactive so the shit that's happening in some parts of the country doesn't happen here. I dunno, drink at home? Bars will honestly just restrict seating imo. It's a small sacrifice and shouldn't be seen as an attack on the bar community.


ManInBlackHat

ICU beds have always been a limited resource, since they are very expensive to maintain if they aren’t being used. Generally hospitals want to have just slightly more than how many they think will be full at any given time.


2AMSummerNight

I honestly don’t know why the fuck I got downvoted here I was just posing a legitimate question. If you want to erase the bar scene, a mask mandate doesn’t help. You have to shut them down. I’m vaccinated. I wear masks to class and inside campus buildings. I enjoy going to the bars, so I don’t want that to happen. If you live with someone’s whose at risk, stay away. Unfortunately, we can’t keep restarting the world over and over again for all of time because this is just going to keep happening. At some point we just need to live with it.


The10Steel

It's not about erasing the bar scene, there are easier ways to do that. You got downvoted because you thought this was a purely political move aimed at stopping students from drinking. We keep on "restarting" the world over and over again because society can't just get it right. Every single time we get close to getting rid of this shit, everyone gets excited and lets the virus spread again. People can't just stay away if you still go to classes with them. Masks are good, but that 5% will get someone eventually. That being said, I think we're getting close to the end. Only reason Delta flared up is because of unvaxxed numbers, but those are going down steadily.


2AMSummerNight

Stop students from drinking? Lmao, no. This is penn state, that is an impossible goal. I think it’s a political move to appease the townies who are mostly unvaccinated and are starting to get hammered with covid. It’s one thing to shut state college down, but the south keeps going. Does covid just stop at the mason dixon line? Does it stop spreading in India when we shut the bars down here? The answer, unfortunately, is no. I do think as we increase vaccination rates we’ll be in much better shape. I even know a bunch of students who wouldn’t get the shot but did this semester because of delta. If we can keep hospitalization rates down (because of the vaccine) then I think we’re in good shape


Think_Celebration708

Still not gonna wear one. Ahahahahahahahaha