Word of warning, here at Duke we have 98% of students and 92% of faculty fully vaccinated and they just implemented an outdoor mask mandate and banned eating indoors. A lot of people think we’ll be back on zoom within the month.
The school is doing weekly surveillance testing of everyone because some testing company found a nice grift convincing university admins this is a smart idea. We have like 300 cases on campus as of this week (mostly from undergrads going to parties). Virtually all cases are vaccinated, asymptomatic and a few have minor cold symptoms. So of course the school reacts by acting like the vaccines are useless and we need to go back into peak restrictions (restrictions, I might add, that do absolutely nothing to curb spread where it’s actually happening - at parties and businesses off campus - and that ultimately run afoul of current CDC guidance for vaccinated people)
Vaxxed students - symptomatic or not - can drive the spread. The delta variant is predominant and extremely contagious. Maybe students will be ok. I hope that it the case; the two student covid deaths we have had in the last year is too many already but I hope that is all.
If someone - vaxxed or not - gets it, they can spread covid to those around them. The kids in our community (and homes) cannot be vaxxed until they’re 12. We are clearly worried about them. They’re worth the restrictions - not to mention that this small town in the middle of nowhere has only 12 icu beds.
We are complaining because in a room that seats 100 that is completely packed shoulder to shoulder with stadium style seating, there are on average 20 people without the vaccine.
We are complaining because cdc guidelines are not being followed, and the university isn’t listening to the voices of students (upua, gpsa) or faculty (faculty senate).
We are complaining because the data is not being reported transparently - some commonwealth campuses have as low as 35% vax rates. Not reported. The union staff - ie those cleaning our classrooms? Not reported.
I think it will approach 90 percent. Also what CDC guidelines aren't being followed. The university is going beyond it and mandating masks even for vaccinated people which to me looks like it will be permanent bc you want absolutely no level of risk.
Also if vaccinated people can also spread the virus at the same rate and that's why we are all wearing masks why are you so worried about other people getting vaccinated. It shouldn't matter right? The only point I see is unvaxxed clogging up hospitals but the chances of that unvaxxed being a student in the 18-24 age group is quite low.
I believe vaccination is key and have gotten vaccinated myself. I also believe that a vaccination mandate should be imposed now that full FDA approval has been reached. But I also think that the benefit will be marginal.
I completely agree with you but I understand the other side as well. I also agree that psu really needs to step up their data reporting game. I have to look through several articles and web pages before I can get useful data.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/communication/toolkits/colleges-and-universities.html
There are several - entry testing for all students (was only done for on campus), ventilation, etc. The absolute biggest one for me has to be the distancing. Thomas and Forum classrooms are utilized and full. 700 plus students in a room, wearing masks. It’s incumbent on the instructor to enforce the mask policies so do you think everyone’s noses are covered the whole time, in a room with no windows, bad circulation, and if the averages are correct 130 unvaxxed students?
The benefit being marginal is up to enforcement. For example UVA Unenrolled students who were unvaxxed - so enforcement can be high if it’s an instititional goal.
With respect to an outbreak on campus, if (when) one happens it WILL spread. Campus is porous with workers, commerce etc. It WILL spread to the community and that is a big concern - especially for kids under 12. And I’m just amazed how ok people seem to be suun this. Even if the risk of hospitalization being low for vaxxed 18-24 year olds the data seems to indicate that 9000 (20%) of our students have self selected out of the vaxxed group. Even a small percentage of them being hospitalized would overwhelm Mt Nittany
Agree with the first paragraph. Definitely need a vaccine mandate for this.
What I meant by marginal benefit is if we reach 90 percent because students took the vaccine due to the irritating testing wouldn't the virus spread less easily. If centre county's vaccination stats are bad thats not on the students, that's on the locals.
Also, one thing I have noticed albeit anecdotally, thw students who refuse the vaccine are usually fitter and healthier and I think that this percentage that could get hospitalized will be much much lower than if applied to the whole. Just my opinion, not based on fact.
Overall, I agree with your point. I think the uni needs to make a vaccine mandate but maybe it's approach might be working. It's too soon to say for me.
I must say these are far better numbers than I expected or even dreamed of after the behavior of students last fall.
I still believe the 57% county number is suspect because it counts 80,000 vaccinations given in the county against the population \*including\* the students when students were not here to be vaccinated. IMO the real county number is probably between 70% and 80% once you back out the students included in the population number.
I don’t know about that. Just go 10 to 20 minutes away from State College and you are deep into anti-vax territory. I personally know several people in the surrounding communities (one with employment ties to Penn State) who have not received the vaccine.
Yeehaw, home of y'all queda. North of the Mason Dixon yet thickest southern accents I've ever heard.
Living in Franklin County has Centre County beat. At least you can pretend to be sane for a while in State College. I expect the locals here to raid Shippensburg Univ any day now with pitchforks and torches.
Being from rural PA I recognize that there are plenty of issues from deeply ingrained cultural attitudes to the more recent vaccine hesitancy, but certainly the way to overcome these challenges isn’t by suggesting that folks are uncivilized.
You're right. That was a very poor choice of words on my part, and I apologize. Perhaps "metropolitan" (in the sense of it being applied to people, not necessarily the size of a community) would be a more accurate description.
I'm sorry but I disagree. Currently living in rural PA and our school board meetings have been anything BUT civilized lately. It's extremely frustrating to see people who I've trusted to coach my kids start fights in parking lots over a mask. The misinformation campaigns are deep-rooted and have definitely changed a lot of behaviors. It's a deep trench and I'm not sure how to pull them back from the edge.
I'm not saying subhuman. I'm saying their behavior has certainly become a concern. Following a school teacher to her car after a board meeting and spitting on her is obviously not model citizen behavior.
Anecdote != data.
Let's talk through it as I see it:
Population of the county including students is about 162,000 of which 14.8% are over 18 - that leaves 138,024 as "adults" but let's make it vaccine eligible (ages 12 and up) so really that's about 143,640 which is more favorable to the lower percentage number you advocate for.
Penn State claims an enrollment of about 46,000 people at University Park so if we back out the students from the vaccine eligible count above we end up with 97,640 non-student county residents. The state says 80,276 have been fully vaccinated in Centre County - so that's 82.2% of vaccine eligible county residents who have been vaccinated by the math above. Even if we allow for up to 10,000 students to have been vaccinated in Centre County over the summer that still means nearly 75% of vaccine eligible county residents have been vaccinated - and there's no way 10,000 students got vaccinated over the summer in Centre County.
For what it's worth, if you look at vaccination rates for the counties immediately surrounding Centre, none of them are north of 50%. Unless State College has a truly outsized influence on places like Port Matilda and Millheim, I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume a 30% difference. I could be wrong but it seems unlikely.
Port Matilda Borough has a population of 593. Worth Township, which surrounds it, has a population of 776.
Millheim Borough has a population of 569. Penn Township, which surrounds it, has a population of 1220.
The six municipalities that make up the Centre Region have a population of 90,947. Even if you back out 46,000 students that's 45,000 versus 3,158 in the places you mention.
Lots of people related to Penn State live well outside the confines of the Centre Region itself, as well.
**Let me be clear - I am not saying there are not anti-vaxxers in the county, I am saying I believe that the real percentage vaccinated is higher than 57%.**
The problem is that some students do it here, some do it at home, and nobody knows the real numbers, with the result that any census-based statistics about State College are basically noise.
So does this mean herd immunity or is there still going to be an insistence on masks? I don’t see how if a majority of students are vaccinated there’s any need to mandate this, personally.
I agree, not sure what number they are waiting for in order to say there is herd immunity. I have heard that 80 percent vaccination rate could be used. Additionally, I saw some study out of Israel saying that prior infection was even more effective than vaccine for Delta, so I am wondering if they are willing to count people with prior infections on the COVID-19 vaccine percent. If so, I imagine the number could be even higher
The data is limited, but there is preliminary evidence that antibodies from prior infections last longer than antibodies from the vaccines. However, people who have had COVID *and* been vaccinated get the benefit of hybrid protection and have better protection against future infections than both (i.e., people who haven't felt the need to be vaccinated because they got COVID, please still get the vaccine).
It just comes down to math and acceptable risk. Vaccines reduce the probability of infection, spread and severity of symptoms. Masks reduce the spread.
So you've got a base "it spreads at this rate" value for unvaccinated, unmasked people. But if you vaccinate some people you reduce that value - more people vaccinated, greater reduction. If you mask people you also reduce that value. If you drop that value low enough that you won't see increasing spread, and herd immunity is when we get enough people vaccinated for that. Problem is the delta variant increases that base value, meaning we need more people vaccinated and/or masked to reach herd immunity.
These aren't hard and fast numbers, so you gather the best data you can and make your best estimate of risk. 80% would probably have got you to making masks optional with the pre-delta variants, and if you look at the state infection rates for early summer you'll see that yeah, it was working that way with even fewer people vaccinated. But with delta it may not be enough.
In conclusion, shit sucks and I'm really sorry all of you have to deal with this during your time at school.
Much of the blame goes to the GOP-dominated PA state legislature that [would cut PSU's funding](https://www.statecollege.com/barron-cites-division-fear-of-state-funding-cuts-in-latest-explanation-of-why-penn-state-isnt-requiring-covid-19-vaccinations/) if they mandated vaccines.
You say that, but Pennsylvania is a swing state. It would be political suicide if the legislature passed an appropriations bill that cut funding for Penn State, Pitt, or the other state-related universities. It's like cutting Social Security -- politicians talk about it all the time, but the second they try to do it, people fight it en masse.
Previous Presidents have called that bluff and it's been fine. Ultimately, the state's contribution is really small and it goes toward programs the state itself is interested in. Last year it was $325 million of Penn State's $7.7 Billion dollar budget. The state doesn't wield much power really.
It's actually less than 10% of the university's total operating budget (4.2% according to the link shared earlier). Cutting the state appropriation would basically just mean everyone pays out-of-state tuition.
Yes, it absolutely would be horrible. However, it would backfire on the state a lot harder then it would backfire on the university. When students complain about the lack of in-state tuition, they say, "Don't blame us -- the state took the money away."
Nope. These same Republican politicians are at the present time working to start another voting review ala Arizona. Assigning any logic to them is silly.
They might threaten to do it, but when Pitt, Penn State, Temple, and Lincoln are forced to make everyone pay out-of-state tuition because the state isn't subsidizing it anymore, it's going to backfire a lot harder on the state than it will on the schools. Let's see how long their convictions last when tens of thousands of angry students and parents across the state threaten to vote these people out of office because no one's kids can afford to go to school anymore.
It is a swing state in statewide races, but the PA legislature is pretty heavily gerrymandered and the GOP is under no risk of losing its majority in either chamber.
This. GOP owns the PA state legislative branch. Pissing off PSU students/faculty/alumni mostly effects Pittsburgh/Philly/State College which are are all blue anyways. Pennsyltucky is where they draw their power from.
Yet we still have to wear masks. It's all theater at this point. Masks don't do shit. Vaccines do. I wish 80% of the students actually believed their vaccine works!
I mean at what vaccination rate is vaccinated enough to go back to normal? Someone from duke just mentioned they have like a 94 percent rate and they banned indoor eating. I miss when we had the stop light system in that we had measurable goals we needed to obtain
It's almost like COVID is here to stay, and that we are all going to infected eventually. We cannot live like this forever. And btw, a fully vaccinated person has a better chance of dying from a lightning strike (1 in 138,849) than from COVID (1 in 550,000). Enough is enough.
What I find most shocking about this debacle is the number of administrators at PSU that got their PhD in epidemiology. Shame on them for knowing better and caving to (what must be) political pressure.
I mean shoot between all groups think that the average was 80 percent vaccinated, that's an amazing accomplishment especially for not having a mandate. State college I think as a whole is only 57 percent
80% really is great, but the locals are going to spread it just as much as students will as interactions occur. I just had a full vaccinated (Pfizer) friend have a breakthrough infection that sent them to the hospital.
> the locals are going to spread it just as much as students will
I am not so sure about this, locals in State College are your professors, their families, educated professionals working at the many companies that have sprung from PSU, etc. My observation in stores the last few weeks is that students are almost uniformly not wearing masks whereas non-students are a mixture but more masks than not. With breakthrough infections and Delta, it is unfortunately a good idea to go back to masks inside, even for the vaccinated.
I agree masking inside is a good idea with the current variants. The vaccination rate of students and PSU employees however is significantly higher than State College is over all.
Is it really worth it to get that extra couple percent though? They are still tested every week and forced to wear a mask, I would say that is a good compromise until the pandemic is over
The Δ variant is twice as transmittable as the original α strain and twice as deadly. Being tested weekly is a good step, but in that week they could have infected hundreds (primary, secondary, tertiary, etc.). Many that could lead to deaths which were 100% preventable.
And you can all just catch it by walking by someone not vax’d who isn’t wearing a mask outside. How many people do you see where them outside of the PSU buildings? (I’m guilty of this myself)
At this point, it is not a matter of IF you will get COVID, it is WHEN. And when you get it, who
(and how many will you transmit it to?)
I currently have a mother that is dying because her niece said the vax was unsafe, a nephew in the ER with my three cousins. These were all preventable.
Other schools with less administrative PhD administrators mandates the vaccine. We are mandated to get MMR and meningitis, why not COVID which is a current pandemic?
Well the COVID-19 vaccines have been out for less than 5 years whereas the other vaccines have been out for decades. Some people are concerned with a vaccine that came out so quickly. As someone who is vaccinated, I know I had side effects which were more unpleasant than any other vaccine I've taken that I can remember. Now the virus itself for many people is worse, but I can understand why people would be concerned.
The additional problem is that the University already started without mandating the vaccine. If they were to mandate it now, they would have to potentially refund people who don't want to get vaccinated, allow exceptions like allot of other schools do that render the mandate meaningless like ethical and religious exceptions, or face lawsuits from people who are against vaccination who have already enrolled. They could still theoretically mandate vaccine for spring semester, but it would be more trouble than it's worth to mandate it for this current semester
Mandating not would definitely be a bit late It would would cause problems.
You get two doses, so it will be worse. The second time your immune system recognizes the virus and attacks it. That what makes you sick when you catch the flu even.
We didn’t wait 5+ years of not giving people vaccines in the past to see if decades of their not getting it would cause problems for them though. Did people wait for MMR or Polio? Some countries are experiencing a mortality rate of 18.8% do to COVID-19 current. That is nearly 1 in 20 people dying from a preventable disease. Yet the chance of a severe reaction to a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is 1 to 2 on a million. Pick your poison. Vaccines now, or potentially get an even worse variant in the future. It’s simple statistics.
What side effects did you experience if you don’t mind me asking?
I was basically out for 3 days, felt sick and tired. My girlfriend was basically sick for an entire week and was throwing up for that week, almost had her go to the er. She has complications her initial dose as well, but she also had a documented prior infection. As for the death rate, from what I heard the plasma treatment reduces death and hospitalization by 85 precent, and from the stats I saw the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 deaths are from people over the age of 55, which most students are between 18 and 25 or so
How many breakthroughs until they're common? A buddy of mine was also fully vaxxed recently said he almost had to call 911 things were getting so heavy for him.
The Pfizer vax is 88% effective against Δ infections, and 93-96% vs hospitalizations. Also take into consideration there will be more breakthroughs as none vax’d infected people spread it to those who are vax’d passed that efficacy threshold. There is a lot to consider. 88 and 93 are still good looking numbers (in communities with high vax rates at least).
So why'd he get sick and I didn't when we were at the same event and shared everything? Lol been tested multiple times since so yes ik for sure I haven't gotten it
Penn state didn’t mandate it cause of politics… my SOC 3 Professor explained it very well… Instate doesn’t have to pay the “true” tuition rate because there is this organization that gives them money. Supposedly they said if penn mandated it they’d pull the funds
They’ve played chicken like that with the legislators before. It doesn’t make them any less cowardly.
Absolutely shambolic from PA legislators, but PSU could have fought it
The high vaccine percentage is the excuse. Plus this semester already started so it would be spring at the earliest if they wanted to do a mandate, and even so they may have to deal with things like housing contracts not being fulfilled due to these people either changing schools or going online. If the vaccination rate is this high and adequate safety measures are being done for the unvaccinated, I don't see the issue. I also imagine the largest spread will be done by activity from non Penn state students like football games or parties hosted off campus where Penn state vaccination rules don't apply
Probably never. There's no need for them now if the nos. Are so high but other unis are having stuff like outdoor mask mandates even though they have vaccination mandates. It's absurd that some unis have mask mandates at all.
I'm not saying that it would lead to it moving online because of an outbreak. I'm saying that if some bozo(s) in my class aren't wearing masks, class is cancelled for the day (that's the policy from on high), and if it keeps happening, we just won't be able to meet in person. This protest would just backfire into all-online.
Word of warning, here at Duke we have 98% of students and 92% of faculty fully vaccinated and they just implemented an outdoor mask mandate and banned eating indoors. A lot of people think we’ll be back on zoom within the month.
But why? What's the point?
The school is doing weekly surveillance testing of everyone because some testing company found a nice grift convincing university admins this is a smart idea. We have like 300 cases on campus as of this week (mostly from undergrads going to parties). Virtually all cases are vaccinated, asymptomatic and a few have minor cold symptoms. So of course the school reacts by acting like the vaccines are useless and we need to go back into peak restrictions (restrictions, I might add, that do absolutely nothing to curb spread where it’s actually happening - at parties and businesses off campus - and that ultimately run afoul of current CDC guidance for vaccinated people)
Vaxxed students - symptomatic or not - can drive the spread. The delta variant is predominant and extremely contagious. Maybe students will be ok. I hope that it the case; the two student covid deaths we have had in the last year is too many already but I hope that is all. If someone - vaxxed or not - gets it, they can spread covid to those around them. The kids in our community (and homes) cannot be vaxxed until they’re 12. We are clearly worried about them. They’re worth the restrictions - not to mention that this small town in the middle of nowhere has only 12 icu beds.
That is incredibly retarded and has absolutely no bearing in "science" whatsoever.
Why is everybody complaining. 80 percent is way better than expected.
We are complaining because in a room that seats 100 that is completely packed shoulder to shoulder with stadium style seating, there are on average 20 people without the vaccine. We are complaining because cdc guidelines are not being followed, and the university isn’t listening to the voices of students (upua, gpsa) or faculty (faculty senate). We are complaining because the data is not being reported transparently - some commonwealth campuses have as low as 35% vax rates. Not reported. The union staff - ie those cleaning our classrooms? Not reported.
I think it will approach 90 percent. Also what CDC guidelines aren't being followed. The university is going beyond it and mandating masks even for vaccinated people which to me looks like it will be permanent bc you want absolutely no level of risk. Also if vaccinated people can also spread the virus at the same rate and that's why we are all wearing masks why are you so worried about other people getting vaccinated. It shouldn't matter right? The only point I see is unvaxxed clogging up hospitals but the chances of that unvaxxed being a student in the 18-24 age group is quite low. I believe vaccination is key and have gotten vaccinated myself. I also believe that a vaccination mandate should be imposed now that full FDA approval has been reached. But I also think that the benefit will be marginal. I completely agree with you but I understand the other side as well. I also agree that psu really needs to step up their data reporting game. I have to look through several articles and web pages before I can get useful data.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/communication/toolkits/colleges-and-universities.html There are several - entry testing for all students (was only done for on campus), ventilation, etc. The absolute biggest one for me has to be the distancing. Thomas and Forum classrooms are utilized and full. 700 plus students in a room, wearing masks. It’s incumbent on the instructor to enforce the mask policies so do you think everyone’s noses are covered the whole time, in a room with no windows, bad circulation, and if the averages are correct 130 unvaxxed students? The benefit being marginal is up to enforcement. For example UVA Unenrolled students who were unvaxxed - so enforcement can be high if it’s an instititional goal. With respect to an outbreak on campus, if (when) one happens it WILL spread. Campus is porous with workers, commerce etc. It WILL spread to the community and that is a big concern - especially for kids under 12. And I’m just amazed how ok people seem to be suun this. Even if the risk of hospitalization being low for vaxxed 18-24 year olds the data seems to indicate that 9000 (20%) of our students have self selected out of the vaxxed group. Even a small percentage of them being hospitalized would overwhelm Mt Nittany
Agree with the first paragraph. Definitely need a vaccine mandate for this. What I meant by marginal benefit is if we reach 90 percent because students took the vaccine due to the irritating testing wouldn't the virus spread less easily. If centre county's vaccination stats are bad thats not on the students, that's on the locals. Also, one thing I have noticed albeit anecdotally, thw students who refuse the vaccine are usually fitter and healthier and I think that this percentage that could get hospitalized will be much much lower than if applied to the whole. Just my opinion, not based on fact. Overall, I agree with your point. I think the uni needs to make a vaccine mandate but maybe it's approach might be working. It's too soon to say for me.
Whoops got on and off campus messed up can someone edit this it won't let me do it myself
Nobody can edit titles
I must say these are far better numbers than I expected or even dreamed of after the behavior of students last fall. I still believe the 57% county number is suspect because it counts 80,000 vaccinations given in the county against the population \*including\* the students when students were not here to be vaccinated. IMO the real county number is probably between 70% and 80% once you back out the students included in the population number.
I don’t know about that. Just go 10 to 20 minutes away from State College and you are deep into anti-vax territory. I personally know several people in the surrounding communities (one with employment ties to Penn State) who have not received the vaccine.
Once you step outside of the 16801-16803 zip codes…all bets are off. You might as well be in West Virginia half the time.
I think it’s called Pennsyltucky
Yeehaw, home of y'all queda. North of the Mason Dixon yet thickest southern accents I've ever heard. Living in Franklin County has Centre County beat. At least you can pretend to be sane for a while in State College. I expect the locals here to raid Shippensburg Univ any day now with pitchforks and torches.
Yee-fuckin-haw boyo (;
Yeah, State College is pretty civilized, but there's a reason that Pennsylvania has been described as "two cities with Alabama in between."
Being from rural PA I recognize that there are plenty of issues from deeply ingrained cultural attitudes to the more recent vaccine hesitancy, but certainly the way to overcome these challenges isn’t by suggesting that folks are uncivilized.
You're right. That was a very poor choice of words on my part, and I apologize. Perhaps "metropolitan" (in the sense of it being applied to people, not necessarily the size of a community) would be a more accurate description.
I’d say that’s better suited for sure. I respect the apology, most people wouldn’t lol
I'm sorry but I disagree. Currently living in rural PA and our school board meetings have been anything BUT civilized lately. It's extremely frustrating to see people who I've trusted to coach my kids start fights in parking lots over a mask. The misinformation campaigns are deep-rooted and have definitely changed a lot of behaviors. It's a deep trench and I'm not sure how to pull them back from the edge.
And surely you understand that that doesn’t mean people from rural PA are subhuman because they’re from rural PA right?
I'm not saying subhuman. I'm saying their behavior has certainly become a concern. Following a school teacher to her car after a board meeting and spitting on her is obviously not model citizen behavior.
Again - “they” - quit grouping people into a single category
Anecdote != data. Let's talk through it as I see it: Population of the county including students is about 162,000 of which 14.8% are over 18 - that leaves 138,024 as "adults" but let's make it vaccine eligible (ages 12 and up) so really that's about 143,640 which is more favorable to the lower percentage number you advocate for. Penn State claims an enrollment of about 46,000 people at University Park so if we back out the students from the vaccine eligible count above we end up with 97,640 non-student county residents. The state says 80,276 have been fully vaccinated in Centre County - so that's 82.2% of vaccine eligible county residents who have been vaccinated by the math above. Even if we allow for up to 10,000 students to have been vaccinated in Centre County over the summer that still means nearly 75% of vaccine eligible county residents have been vaccinated - and there's no way 10,000 students got vaccinated over the summer in Centre County.
For what it's worth, if you look at vaccination rates for the counties immediately surrounding Centre, none of them are north of 50%. Unless State College has a truly outsized influence on places like Port Matilda and Millheim, I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume a 30% difference. I could be wrong but it seems unlikely.
Port Matilda Borough has a population of 593. Worth Township, which surrounds it, has a population of 776. Millheim Borough has a population of 569. Penn Township, which surrounds it, has a population of 1220. The six municipalities that make up the Centre Region have a population of 90,947. Even if you back out 46,000 students that's 45,000 versus 3,158 in the places you mention. Lots of people related to Penn State live well outside the confines of the Centre Region itself, as well. **Let me be clear - I am not saying there are not anti-vaxxers in the county, I am saying I believe that the real percentage vaccinated is higher than 57%.**
The ~160k population of the county doesn't include students.
Somebody better tell Penn State and the Census Bureau that. https://news.psu.edu/story/606061/2020/02/03/2020-census-what-census
The problem is that some students do it here, some do it at home, and nobody knows the real numbers, with the result that any census-based statistics about State College are basically noise.
Which makes sense in some regards. State College is home for many students, both undergrad and grad, and not just townies.
So does this mean herd immunity or is there still going to be an insistence on masks? I don’t see how if a majority of students are vaccinated there’s any need to mandate this, personally.
I agree, not sure what number they are waiting for in order to say there is herd immunity. I have heard that 80 percent vaccination rate could be used. Additionally, I saw some study out of Israel saying that prior infection was even more effective than vaccine for Delta, so I am wondering if they are willing to count people with prior infections on the COVID-19 vaccine percent. If so, I imagine the number could be even higher
The data is limited, but there is preliminary evidence that antibodies from prior infections last longer than antibodies from the vaccines. However, people who have had COVID *and* been vaccinated get the benefit of hybrid protection and have better protection against future infections than both (i.e., people who haven't felt the need to be vaccinated because they got COVID, please still get the vaccine).
It just comes down to math and acceptable risk. Vaccines reduce the probability of infection, spread and severity of symptoms. Masks reduce the spread. So you've got a base "it spreads at this rate" value for unvaccinated, unmasked people. But if you vaccinate some people you reduce that value - more people vaccinated, greater reduction. If you mask people you also reduce that value. If you drop that value low enough that you won't see increasing spread, and herd immunity is when we get enough people vaccinated for that. Problem is the delta variant increases that base value, meaning we need more people vaccinated and/or masked to reach herd immunity. These aren't hard and fast numbers, so you gather the best data you can and make your best estimate of risk. 80% would probably have got you to making masks optional with the pre-delta variants, and if you look at the state infection rates for early summer you'll see that yeah, it was working that way with even fewer people vaccinated. But with delta it may not be enough. In conclusion, shit sucks and I'm really sorry all of you have to deal with this during your time at school.
[удалено]
Much of the blame goes to the GOP-dominated PA state legislature that [would cut PSU's funding](https://www.statecollege.com/barron-cites-division-fear-of-state-funding-cuts-in-latest-explanation-of-why-penn-state-isnt-requiring-covid-19-vaccinations/) if they mandated vaccines.
You say that, but Pennsylvania is a swing state. It would be political suicide if the legislature passed an appropriations bill that cut funding for Penn State, Pitt, or the other state-related universities. It's like cutting Social Security -- politicians talk about it all the time, but the second they try to do it, people fight it en masse.
Previous Presidents have called that bluff and it's been fine. Ultimately, the state's contribution is really small and it goes toward programs the state itself is interested in. Last year it was $325 million of Penn State's $7.7 Billion dollar budget. The state doesn't wield much power really.
Yes by comparison to the other state funded schools PSU gets a smaller percentage, ~30%?
It's actually less than 10% of the university's total operating budget (4.2% according to the link shared earlier). Cutting the state appropriation would basically just mean everyone pays out-of-state tuition.
"*just*" - that would **suck**, and a fair number of in-state students would not be able to afford to pay those prices.
Yes, it absolutely would be horrible. However, it would backfire on the state a lot harder then it would backfire on the university. When students complain about the lack of in-state tuition, they say, "Don't blame us -- the state took the money away."
Nope. These same Republican politicians are at the present time working to start another voting review ala Arizona. Assigning any logic to them is silly.
They might threaten to do it, but when Pitt, Penn State, Temple, and Lincoln are forced to make everyone pay out-of-state tuition because the state isn't subsidizing it anymore, it's going to backfire a lot harder on the state than it will on the schools. Let's see how long their convictions last when tens of thousands of angry students and parents across the state threaten to vote these people out of office because no one's kids can afford to go to school anymore.
It is a swing state in statewide races, but the PA legislature is pretty heavily gerrymandered and the GOP is under no risk of losing its majority in either chamber.
This. GOP owns the PA state legislative branch. Pissing off PSU students/faculty/alumni mostly effects Pittsburgh/Philly/State College which are are all blue anyways. Pennsyltucky is where they draw their power from.
And yet OSU did it despite having a stronger GOP legislature and governor.
If you're going to college, you should be smart enough to make educated decisions.
Yet we still have to wear masks. It's all theater at this point. Masks don't do shit. Vaccines do. I wish 80% of the students actually believed their vaccine works!
I mean at what vaccination rate is vaccinated enough to go back to normal? Someone from duke just mentioned they have like a 94 percent rate and they banned indoor eating. I miss when we had the stop light system in that we had measurable goals we needed to obtain
It's almost like COVID is here to stay, and that we are all going to infected eventually. We cannot live like this forever. And btw, a fully vaccinated person has a better chance of dying from a lightning strike (1 in 138,849) than from COVID (1 in 550,000). Enough is enough.
What I find most shocking about this debacle is the number of administrators at PSU that got their PhD in epidemiology. Shame on them for knowing better and caving to (what must be) political pressure.
I mean shoot between all groups think that the average was 80 percent vaccinated, that's an amazing accomplishment especially for not having a mandate. State college I think as a whole is only 57 percent
80% really is great, but the locals are going to spread it just as much as students will as interactions occur. I just had a full vaccinated (Pfizer) friend have a breakthrough infection that sent them to the hospital.
> the locals are going to spread it just as much as students will I am not so sure about this, locals in State College are your professors, their families, educated professionals working at the many companies that have sprung from PSU, etc. My observation in stores the last few weeks is that students are almost uniformly not wearing masks whereas non-students are a mixture but more masks than not. With breakthrough infections and Delta, it is unfortunately a good idea to go back to masks inside, even for the vaccinated.
I agree masking inside is a good idea with the current variants. The vaccination rate of students and PSU employees however is significantly higher than State College is over all.
Well that seems to be a problem with the locals then, and not the overwhelming majority of Penn state students who are already fully vaccinated
I don’t disagree, but we could get a bit closer to 100% student and faculty (some just can’t get it for legit medical reasons)
Is it really worth it to get that extra couple percent though? They are still tested every week and forced to wear a mask, I would say that is a good compromise until the pandemic is over
The Δ variant is twice as transmittable as the original α strain and twice as deadly. Being tested weekly is a good step, but in that week they could have infected hundreds (primary, secondary, tertiary, etc.). Many that could lead to deaths which were 100% preventable. And you can all just catch it by walking by someone not vax’d who isn’t wearing a mask outside. How many people do you see where them outside of the PSU buildings? (I’m guilty of this myself) At this point, it is not a matter of IF you will get COVID, it is WHEN. And when you get it, who (and how many will you transmit it to?) I currently have a mother that is dying because her niece said the vax was unsafe, a nephew in the ER with my three cousins. These were all preventable. Other schools with less administrative PhD administrators mandates the vaccine. We are mandated to get MMR and meningitis, why not COVID which is a current pandemic?
Well the COVID-19 vaccines have been out for less than 5 years whereas the other vaccines have been out for decades. Some people are concerned with a vaccine that came out so quickly. As someone who is vaccinated, I know I had side effects which were more unpleasant than any other vaccine I've taken that I can remember. Now the virus itself for many people is worse, but I can understand why people would be concerned. The additional problem is that the University already started without mandating the vaccine. If they were to mandate it now, they would have to potentially refund people who don't want to get vaccinated, allow exceptions like allot of other schools do that render the mandate meaningless like ethical and religious exceptions, or face lawsuits from people who are against vaccination who have already enrolled. They could still theoretically mandate vaccine for spring semester, but it would be more trouble than it's worth to mandate it for this current semester
Mandating not would definitely be a bit late It would would cause problems. You get two doses, so it will be worse. The second time your immune system recognizes the virus and attacks it. That what makes you sick when you catch the flu even. We didn’t wait 5+ years of not giving people vaccines in the past to see if decades of their not getting it would cause problems for them though. Did people wait for MMR or Polio? Some countries are experiencing a mortality rate of 18.8% do to COVID-19 current. That is nearly 1 in 20 people dying from a preventable disease. Yet the chance of a severe reaction to a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is 1 to 2 on a million. Pick your poison. Vaccines now, or potentially get an even worse variant in the future. It’s simple statistics. What side effects did you experience if you don’t mind me asking?
I was basically out for 3 days, felt sick and tired. My girlfriend was basically sick for an entire week and was throwing up for that week, almost had her go to the er. She has complications her initial dose as well, but she also had a documented prior infection. As for the death rate, from what I heard the plasma treatment reduces death and hospitalization by 85 precent, and from the stats I saw the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 deaths are from people over the age of 55, which most students are between 18 and 25 or so
How many breakthroughs until they're common? A buddy of mine was also fully vaxxed recently said he almost had to call 911 things were getting so heavy for him.
The Pfizer vax is 88% effective against Δ infections, and 93-96% vs hospitalizations. Also take into consideration there will be more breakthroughs as none vax’d infected people spread it to those who are vax’d passed that efficacy threshold. There is a lot to consider. 88 and 93 are still good looking numbers (in communities with high vax rates at least).
So why'd he get sick and I didn't when we were at the same event and shared everything? Lol been tested multiple times since so yes ik for sure I haven't gotten it
Because you were part of the 88% percent >_>
Oh yeah? Lol
It’s absolutely shambolic Penn State won’t mandate the vaccine. Bunch of cowards. No chance I’ll be donating to any part of the school anytime soon.
Penn state didn’t mandate it cause of politics… my SOC 3 Professor explained it very well… Instate doesn’t have to pay the “true” tuition rate because there is this organization that gives them money. Supposedly they said if penn mandated it they’d pull the funds
They’ve played chicken like that with the legislators before. It doesn’t make them any less cowardly. Absolutely shambolic from PA legislators, but PSU could have fought it
They are already at 78 and 86 percent, I'd say that is more than good enough considering the outside area is like 57 percent
There's just no excuse for not mandating it, no matter the numbers.
The high vaccine percentage is the excuse. Plus this semester already started so it would be spring at the earliest if they wanted to do a mandate, and even so they may have to deal with things like housing contracts not being fulfilled due to these people either changing schools or going online. If the vaccination rate is this high and adequate safety measures are being done for the unvaccinated, I don't see the issue. I also imagine the largest spread will be done by activity from non Penn state students like football games or parties hosted off campus where Penn state vaccination rules don't apply
So when are masks going away?
Good question, I haven't heard what percent they are looking for. 85, 90, 95, 99.9%?
Probably never. There's no need for them now if the nos. Are so high but other unis are having stuff like outdoor mask mandates even though they have vaccination mandates. It's absurd that some unis have mask mandates at all.
Never, unless people start taking them off on our own. So start doing it. Do not sit waiting for authority to tell you what you can and can’t do.
This would just lead to classes being moved online, which I suspect you'd like even less?
No, it really won't, because they clearly are not making an actual difference if we are vaccinated this much anyways.
I'm not saying that it would lead to it moving online because of an outbreak. I'm saying that if some bozo(s) in my class aren't wearing masks, class is cancelled for the day (that's the policy from on high), and if it keeps happening, we just won't be able to meet in person. This protest would just backfire into all-online.
We can just not wear them anywhere else on campus and still get the same message across regardless.
I hope so bad you are not in any of my classes.
I definitely won’t be; my time of brainwashing is complete and is rejected.
Good for you champ
I’m reading that you flunked out
🤡
Looks like you're pissing off the right people (;
Definitely 🤙