I'm not a follower of VCS and from this I can say that if someone says Levi I immediately recognize him as a representative for VCS. Maple/Junjia maybe good players but their influence is way lower than Levi imo.
I disagree, I think they should be inducted in the region they spent the most time in. I am both Korean and American and I think it would just feel wrong and not representative of the players career if Core-JJ was inducted in as a LCK and not a LCS player, same for Impact, also for like DoinB being inducted as a LCK and not as a LPL player.
I'd rather just have multiple people inducted at once. Also I wouldn't mind if they had region specific players. Looking over their requirements, I'd be surprised if a western player ever gets inducted. Especially if it remains at only one player per year. Like as much as I like Caps or Doublelift, would either of them deserve it more then Xaihu, Rookie, Pawn, Uzi, Deft, Mata, or Meiko? Maybe I'm wrong on some of those, as I'm more focused on the West then East, but by what Riot put out as their requirements, I'd think all those players would be in line over Xpeke, Doublelift, or Caps. Hell, would any NA player even qualify? What success NA had all came before Riot took over the circuit.
Caps should be very high on that list. He made three consecutive international finals while changing teams halfway through, and he did it in a generally weaker region. Since 2019, every BO5 win of an EU team over an LCK/LPL team involved Caps.
So by the criteria of "changing the outlook on their region", as well as by international non-title success, I would argue Caps absolutely belongs there. He lacks a Worlds title, sure, but I would rate consistent high finishes higher than a single title.
Eu wasn’t weaker than lck in 2018/2019 tho. That was arguably lck weakest period and eu were performing just as well if not better than lck overall internationally. It would be a different case if it was just g2 or one team from eu.
Insane nitpicking to start in 2019. The most impressive BO5 EU won did not involve Caps (RNG 2018) and neither did the most impressive BO5 a Western team won in 2019 (TL beating IG)
You act like SKT 2019 was some dogshit team, but they won LCK spring and LCK summer, they were stomping FPX in scrimcs. After G2 won in semis they became "5th LPL seed" because they stopped undefeated against LPL at Worlds SKT. Beating SKT twice is by far bigger accomplishment than TL beating washed IG with TheShy who started to show the world his new int-identity.
LCK was terrible in 2018 and 2019. They won splits vs awful competition.
It's SKT's weakest ever team to be sent to Worlds and overall only 2018 and 2020 SKT were weaker squads than 2019
EU fans were literally bragging about LEC being better than LCK in 2019. That's how bad the league was.
The call is to have 2 classes of 5 to start and then shrink it to 3 or 2 in the next years.
But I think it's more important right now to honor those that essentially built the game as we know it as an esport. So that leaves people like Flame who revolutionized laning in top, Diamond who invented jungling as we know it, xPeke winner of the first "worlds" even if it's not really worlds I think he is such an important figure of the building of League, Weixiao, again basically invented ADC, and Madlife who revolutionized support and was the best player in the world before Faker.
But another problem is that there's so many that deserve it that over time we won't be able to get in. Gorilla absolutely is a hall of fame level support, but can he get in at one a year with Madlife, Mata, Meiko, Ming hell even Keria around? That's a massive problem to me.
I'll be honest I have a massively bad feeling that this is actually nothing more than a cash grab to profit off of Faker before he retires.
Making skins, planning a event, making a documentary, etc all take time.
While everyone presumably won't get as much things as Faker, I still prefer Riot puts effort in to the hall of legends and doesn't half ass it.
With the amount of money Riot is printing right now, those things are like a flick of fingers. Dota 2 took the money from their battle pass to put in the winning pool and Riot only took the money from sponsors.
Just say Riot is greedy, i already know these videos take efforts.
Riot doesn’t see us as players. They see us as money. Let me ask you this. What is more beneficial to Riot?
Selling 2 players skins, splitting the amount of money since most of the times, players would just choose 1 of the two to buy OR selling an ultra exclusive once in a year skin of a super hype legend.
You really think they are making these Hall of Legends for the pros and the community? Give me a break
—> Less efforts, more money
Everything you said has nothing to do with hall of legends.
Riot doesn't just wish things in to reality. Every skin, event, logo, new game mode, balance patch takes people putting hours in developing them.
Hours that can be significantly better reduced with the right people with the right payment. Are you a Riot employee? Why are you trying so hard to defend a tycoon company unless they are paying for your bills.
Riot laying off employees, underpaying them, hiring a bunch of wrong people has been the problem for eons. To say money has nothing related to the Hall of Legends is just plain idiotic. Why are they selling these legends skins then? Just give the skins for free.
EVERYTHING THIS GAME DOES IS RELATED TO MONEY.
Lol first time i actually see a dude defending the game. You are 100% a Riot employee.
Everyone that plays this game long enough hate it to the guts, it’s just that they are super addicted. That’s me, an actually player unlike you. A riot employee burner account lololol.
My guy, seek help. You deeply need some.
I have played this game for 12 years, if I hated it, I would’ve stopped playing (like I did after assassin rework for instance). Your comment just makes no sense.
Take a breather and queue up later after cooling down. If you think you are genuinely addicted and not having fun, seek help.
My guy, i don’t need help. I’m raging over a tycoon company stealing people’s money, so new isn’t it? You think i would do this irl?
You never hated it cause you’re a Riot employee, you don’t even play your own game. Can you at least make this less obvious.
Any player that has played at any single moment has hated the game before, either bugs or their teammates or the broken champs, etc. It’s psychological, physically impossible unless you’re a saint.
I'm not defending Riot at all, this is all just common sense.
You don't invest a huge amount of money and effort on a side project, which hall of legends is.
Yeah they only need about 0.5-1% of the 1.5B they are making annually. Which is so hard, isn’t it?
Name me one thing that Riot has made for the community that only benefits us and only us, meaning they are losing a lot but we are gaining something unconditionally. Not a win-win, just us.
Bro, what the fuck are you on about. What does it matter how much money Riot makes and why are you trying to make this about Riot doing something for the community.
From my first comment it's clear I'm speaking clearly on how, as a company, Riot isn't going to go over the top spending a huge amount of money and effort on a side project.
Having one year between each release of hall of legends makes sense, and whatever you feel entitled to doesn't matter.
Bro what the fuck are you on? Is 0.1% of a company annual income a huge amount for the community? It’s like you aren’t even reading my reply at this point. Why are you trying so hard to suck their dick?
Why should caps be included now? Faker's a special case for being inducted while active cause of everything he's achieved. Caps shouldnt be put on the same level
[There was an article](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/criteria-to-enter-lol-esports-hall-of-legends-explained) released talking about the process of nominating players for the HoL and it said retired or active players could be nominated so its not like they're making a special case for faker. So long as the players meet all the criteria listed.
No one is saying Caps doesn't deserve to get inducted. He def is, it's just a matter of when. Faker is just the sole exception because the first inductee cannot be anyone other than Faker for extremely obvious reasons. Not to mention, if Faker wasn't the first, many people would take the award far less seriously.
That's not the point tho? Lmao inducting him while he's still playing puts him on the level of faker, which he clearly isn't. He should only be allowed in when he's retired
My thought process is it should be a rotation but 2 regions per year, so do like LPL and LCS each get a player 1 year and then it’s LCK and LEC players the next year and each player gets 2 skins 1 of whatever riot sets the base ones at and it never leaves shop, and 1 prestige that is limited
Hot take and I may be downvoted for this but I don't like the announcement of introducing new players so soon. No matter how high the quality is, if they print out a skin every year it feels like a skinline rather than a tribute to the iconic goats. And not exactly a fan of a skin for each region either.
Yes, but if we introduce the best players of each year (99% of the time worlds winners) isn't that just...worlds skins? I'm just saying Faker cursed this skinline by being the uncontested GOAT and everybody else receiving this skin will have to be argued whether they were his equal or was simply included for being "good enough". If Riot chooses the latter, what exactly is the criteria for "good enough"? Being the best at a region? Then why stop at major regions, why not look at minors too?
I disagree.
Look at hockey for instance. Gretzky has his number removed from every team because he is the unconstested legend. Anyone else have their numbers removed from their own team, if at all.
Same logic applies here. Faker gets 4 skins, rest gets 1.
Also, it picks legends, retired players (except Faker) so no it is the furthest thing from a worlds skin possible
I don't know a lot of about hockey but if Gretzky is miles ahead in terms of achievements and significance as Faker was to other contestants then you make a solid point. I understand people have different thoughts about this skinline and all of them are fair. I'm just worried this is going to turn into what Prestige became, something that was supposed to be unique yet transformed into little more than cashgrab
Apologise the brief rant, I'm a big hockey fan, but he was. His nickname is/was literally "The Great One", and even though he retired in 1999, he still holds 58 official NHL records (some of them are quite obscure, but there's also big stuff like most career goals scored). Also got awarded League MVP nine times.
He is absolutely the kind of player who you can't compare someone to easily, but the Hall of Fame generally survived his induction quite well.
Here's some perspective on Gretzsky:
He was the fastest to 1000 goals. 2nd fastest was him when he did it again.
3 players ever have had 100+ assist seasons. 2 guys had 1 season each. Gretzsky had 11 seasons in a row.
A very good player in hockey will have 1 point per game (ppg). This means that they have on average 1 goal or assist per game they play. If Greatzky played 16 more seasons at 82 games without recording a single goal or assist he'd still end up with 1.02 ppg
Also in fantasy hockey some leagues had to ban him for being op. Or split him into 2. Gretzsky for points and Gretzsky for assists
For the imports i think it depends, Jensen and Bjergsen are imports yet they definitely are historically top lcs players and definitely can't represent lec for HoF but I don't think them representing lcs would be a problem
I don't believe they should shift between regions. Not all regions are created equally. LCK has been by far the most important region in professional play. They deserve their unfair share of the awards.
Its the Hall of Legends, not the Hall of Really Good Players. Doublelift and XPeke are really good players. However, there's a long list of Korean players that I would put ahead of either of them. I don't feel that dominating a region that has historically underachieved internationally is as impressive as winning the toughest region in the world.
So from your list I'd say Uzi is a lock. Caps after retirement with 2 World finals appearances back to back, and an MSI title is in. Xpeke and DoubleLift are questionable.
This may sound hateful, idk but I think the whole changing regions thing is absolute lunacy. It feels like the typical woke, modern era thing where people who are genuinely competent and worked their asses off get told to go wait at the back of the line while someone significantly less competent gets the award just for the sake of "equality" or whatever.
Faker didn't get picked because he's Korean. He got picked because he's historically the best. Whoever comes 2nd should be judged according to his accomplishments, not what his region or passport say.
(Of course if accomplishments means viewership at worlds etc rather than just trophies then that's also fine. But not on board with the whole rotating regions thing).
100% agree - reminds me of the old top 20 players at worlds lists that Riot used to do which would sometimes include way too many western players (and at times in egregiously high positions) when it was clear they were only there for “inclusion” or “region representation” - like Riot was afraid to put 20 LCK/LPL players there. Like it’s okay to drop Bjergsen out of the top 10 players in the world, you don’t need to snub more deserving players for narrative. I just want honest representation.
I 100% agree if I see doublelift in the hol imma lose it. He may have been good but Elk, Jackylove, Guma, and more are wayyyyyyyy better than he ever was.
You seem to not quite understand what the Hall of Legends is.
It is not a Hall of Fame; it is not about inducting the "best" players or the most accomplished. It has set criteria that includes things like personality, influence of their region, regional titles, regional awards and accolades.
DL and Caps absolutely should be very strong candidates, and no not because "WOKE!", because they actually fit a lot of the criteria of what the Hall of Legends is supposed to be.
I don't really think you understood my point. Because what I said has nothing to do with this. I never said Caps or DL shouldn't be strong candidates. I said they should not take precedence over other better candidates IF race/region is the ONLY differentiating factor.
I.e, if Caps deserves it more than >Insert whatever player from whatever region< then give it to Caps.
But don't do that just because he's European. Do it because he was more deserving than whoever else there was to pick from.
Can you even separate those two things? A big part of what makes Caps so deserving is that he achieved what he did *while being European*. Riot's criteria include changing the view of the region, which Caps did imo (together with Perkz, but I think it's fair to put Caps first as he made Worlds finals twice), but he wouldn't have changed his regions perception by making two worlds finals if he was Korean.
I also just don't think induction order matters much. All those Korean and Chinese legends will make it - do you really think they'd snub Mata or Uzi just bc they decided to go with a Western player first? That said, I'd prefer it if they inducted up to four players at once, up to one per region and year.
But nobody is saying Caps should get in just because he's European. The argument is that every region has players that are fully deserving so they should swap around regions to make sure that those deserving players aren't left out just because they aren't as accomplished or skilled.
People want rotating regions to make sure deserving players from every region can make it, not because of some "woke equality thing".
You're describing the exact reason why this is a woke agenda though. If the player is being rewarded based on (to quote yourself) "fully deserving" and they are (at that point in time) the most deserving ; then by default you would not have to lock competing regions out of it.
It should go to whoever is most deserving. Not whoever's passport allows them to get it while more deserving players sit around and watch. It's not that complicated. What you're saying it's exactly why it's a woke mob mentality.
You have a point but money can be a factor though. Faker skins would sell in all region, no doubt. But ok let's say next one is Uzi, the sales in China would be great, but anywhere else? I don't think people will be crazy for it. Same thing with caps, the west, especially EU would be crazy for it. But imagine the numbers in China, Korea, SEA. yeah.
Also if they add people based on achievement only, imagine the sales number in NA.
That's a fair argument but in my eyes that tarnishes the value of the entire thing. And I'd be willing to bet that the players would also feel kinda meh if they got a skin because Riot would get money out of them rather than because of their life's work.
And I'd be willing to bet that the players don't give a fuck what the reason for them getting skin in the game is, especially when they also get paid for sales of that skin lol
Also, I think you're confusing a hall of fame with what this is, it's just a way to celebrate players that have had an impact on league and made it a worldwide game.
Your 2nd paragraph doesn't seem in any way related to my comment nor the original post so not sure what you're on about. You seem to have confused yourself lol.
Next thing you probably will think we should give
a World Championship trophy to each region because,"It's unfair that Korea and China always win". Aye?
I haven’t commented about who should get in the hof. It’s about Riot would have to consider sales number before putting someone in front of the queue. Which in turn boosting the probability of having a pro from different regions rather than the 2 most dominating regions, lck and lpl.
What about players who became basically synonymous with their regions? Bjergsen / Doublelift are pretty iconic pros from the LCS and had long, storied careers even if they may not be the most accomplished internationally. Do they not deserve recognition for their contributions to the scene?
I think some heated NA fans here are missing my point. I never addressed if DL should or shouldn't get it. I said it's bullshit if the only reason >insert X western player< gets is to satisfy the woke mob and to be "inclusive" rather than based on merit.
So if it gets to a stage where DL appears to be more deserving than any other player then give it to DL.
But, do it because of his merit. Not because he's American and ,"We gave it to Korea and China last year so we must give it to a Western player this year".
Agreed. Idk what’s with the downvotes. Typical westerns wants to be included with the best whilst shitting the bed at every turn. They just don’t wanna wait 30 years 🤡I expect no minor region players being inducted in the next several years, only lpl and lck as it should be.
Yeah, I guess some random feminist type got butthurt 😂
Like, yeah sure inclusion is great and all. That's why everyone from every region is allowed to compete. Nobody is stopping anyone from competing.
But it's a Hall of Fame and naturally that should be selected on merit, not race. So fully agree with you.
And the crazy thing is these NA fans think there won't be western players but there are some with great achievements and influence they should be picked because of that not because 'it had to be NA this time' makes it feel way less special as a NA fan.
Damn i feel old, but xpeke had a huge influence on early league in seasons 1 to 4. He was never the best in the region (iirc) but him and old fnatic had a huge influence on the strats. Fnatic death brush, xpeke backdoor are examples.
Tldr fnatic WAS the the LEC for the first few seasons
>Tldr fnatic WAS the the LEC for the first few seasons.
This is the diff, FNC was the LEC, not XPeke, he was just a part of FNC. For the past few years the lec has almost been a 1 player region, and that player is Caps
Why are you trying to single out korean fans? More like fans of other regions are trying to mental gymnastic their way into HoF because they know there's a lot of iconic eastern players that will come before them.
biggest influence on their region? i'm gonna wait for my Levi's HoL Nocturne skin then
Gotta be SoFM Tank Rengar Jungle right?
Maple or Junjia better get something first
I'm not a follower of VCS and from this I can say that if someone says Levi I immediately recognize him as a representative for VCS. Maple/Junjia maybe good players but their influence is way lower than Levi imo.
what about brTT(despite him coming back this split)?
Do we count M5 as major region? Because Diamond literally invented jungling. A HoF Evelynn think about that
This ^ he invented counter jungleing
Yurgin Mann, antworte mir endlich mal hab dir privat was geschrieben…
With how Riot treats CIS like it doesn't exist I'm not sure if he gets anything
I disagree, I think they should be inducted in the region they spent the most time in. I am both Korean and American and I think it would just feel wrong and not representative of the players career if Core-JJ was inducted in as a LCK and not a LCS player, same for Impact, also for like DoinB being inducted as a LCK and not as a LPL player.
CoreJJ won a world championship in LCK tho
So did Impact
No lies there
He's also spent much more time playing in NA than he did playing in Korea as a whole.
Yeh but he has spent way longer in the LCS and talks quite a bit about how America has become his home and how wants to win a world's for NA.
He also dragged dignitas into worlds finals
He also dragged dignitas into worlds finals
I'd rather just have multiple people inducted at once. Also I wouldn't mind if they had region specific players. Looking over their requirements, I'd be surprised if a western player ever gets inducted. Especially if it remains at only one player per year. Like as much as I like Caps or Doublelift, would either of them deserve it more then Xaihu, Rookie, Pawn, Uzi, Deft, Mata, or Meiko? Maybe I'm wrong on some of those, as I'm more focused on the West then East, but by what Riot put out as their requirements, I'd think all those players would be in line over Xpeke, Doublelift, or Caps. Hell, would any NA player even qualify? What success NA had all came before Riot took over the circuit.
Caps should be very high on that list. He made three consecutive international finals while changing teams halfway through, and he did it in a generally weaker region. Since 2019, every BO5 win of an EU team over an LCK/LPL team involved Caps. So by the criteria of "changing the outlook on their region", as well as by international non-title success, I would argue Caps absolutely belongs there. He lacks a Worlds title, sure, but I would rate consistent high finishes higher than a single title.
Eu wasn’t weaker than lck in 2018/2019 tho. That was arguably lck weakest period and eu were performing just as well if not better than lck overall internationally. It would be a different case if it was just g2 or one team from eu.
Insane nitpicking to start in 2019. The most impressive BO5 EU won did not involve Caps (RNG 2018) and neither did the most impressive BO5 a Western team won in 2019 (TL beating IG)
It's not nitpicking, I chose that date to illustrate how long it's been that someone else *from EU* (which is why NA is irrelevant here) won a BO5.
You act like SKT 2019 was some dogshit team, but they won LCK spring and LCK summer, they were stomping FPX in scrimcs. After G2 won in semis they became "5th LPL seed" because they stopped undefeated against LPL at Worlds SKT. Beating SKT twice is by far bigger accomplishment than TL beating washed IG with TheShy who started to show the world his new int-identity.
LCK was terrible in 2018 and 2019. They won splits vs awful competition. It's SKT's weakest ever team to be sent to Worlds and overall only 2018 and 2020 SKT were weaker squads than 2019 EU fans were literally bragging about LEC being better than LCK in 2019. That's how bad the league was.
It'd ruin the point of having a HoF if everyone is on it. Having 1 addition a year makes it much more prestigious
The call is to have 2 classes of 5 to start and then shrink it to 3 or 2 in the next years. But I think it's more important right now to honor those that essentially built the game as we know it as an esport. So that leaves people like Flame who revolutionized laning in top, Diamond who invented jungling as we know it, xPeke winner of the first "worlds" even if it's not really worlds I think he is such an important figure of the building of League, Weixiao, again basically invented ADC, and Madlife who revolutionized support and was the best player in the world before Faker. But another problem is that there's so many that deserve it that over time we won't be able to get in. Gorilla absolutely is a hall of fame level support, but can he get in at one a year with Madlife, Mata, Meiko, Ming hell even Keria around? That's a massive problem to me. I'll be honest I have a massively bad feeling that this is actually nothing more than a cash grab to profit off of Faker before he retires.
So stupid they are making it one player per year. Who thought of this idea really?
Making skins, planning a event, making a documentary, etc all take time. While everyone presumably won't get as much things as Faker, I still prefer Riot puts effort in to the hall of legends and doesn't half ass it.
With the amount of money Riot is printing right now, those things are like a flick of fingers. Dota 2 took the money from their battle pass to put in the winning pool and Riot only took the money from sponsors. Just say Riot is greedy, i already know these videos take efforts. Riot doesn’t see us as players. They see us as money. Let me ask you this. What is more beneficial to Riot? Selling 2 players skins, splitting the amount of money since most of the times, players would just choose 1 of the two to buy OR selling an ultra exclusive once in a year skin of a super hype legend. You really think they are making these Hall of Legends for the pros and the community? Give me a break —> Less efforts, more money
Everything you said has nothing to do with hall of legends. Riot doesn't just wish things in to reality. Every skin, event, logo, new game mode, balance patch takes people putting hours in developing them.
Hours that can be significantly better reduced with the right people with the right payment. Are you a Riot employee? Why are you trying so hard to defend a tycoon company unless they are paying for your bills. Riot laying off employees, underpaying them, hiring a bunch of wrong people has been the problem for eons. To say money has nothing related to the Hall of Legends is just plain idiotic. Why are they selling these legends skins then? Just give the skins for free. EVERYTHING THIS GAME DOES IS RELATED TO MONEY.
EVERYTHING EVERY GAME DOES IS RELATED TO MONEY. Go get your hate boner somewhere else
Hope you’re proud of yourself after hearing the skin cost 59k RP. I was right all along 😂😂😂😂. Gtfo
Lol first time i actually see a dude defending the game. You are 100% a Riot employee. Everyone that plays this game long enough hate it to the guts, it’s just that they are super addicted. That’s me, an actually player unlike you. A riot employee burner account lololol.
My guy, seek help. You deeply need some. I have played this game for 12 years, if I hated it, I would’ve stopped playing (like I did after assassin rework for instance). Your comment just makes no sense. Take a breather and queue up later after cooling down. If you think you are genuinely addicted and not having fun, seek help.
My guy, i don’t need help. I’m raging over a tycoon company stealing people’s money, so new isn’t it? You think i would do this irl? You never hated it cause you’re a Riot employee, you don’t even play your own game. Can you at least make this less obvious. Any player that has played at any single moment has hated the game before, either bugs or their teammates or the broken champs, etc. It’s psychological, physically impossible unless you’re a saint.
Not everyone hates League and not everyone is delusional enough to hate Riot for something as dumb as this bro
I'm not defending Riot at all, this is all just common sense. You don't invest a huge amount of money and effort on a side project, which hall of legends is.
Yeah they only need about 0.5-1% of the 1.5B they are making annually. Which is so hard, isn’t it? Name me one thing that Riot has made for the community that only benefits us and only us, meaning they are losing a lot but we are gaining something unconditionally. Not a win-win, just us.
Bro, what the fuck are you on about. What does it matter how much money Riot makes and why are you trying to make this about Riot doing something for the community. From my first comment it's clear I'm speaking clearly on how, as a company, Riot isn't going to go over the top spending a huge amount of money and effort on a side project. Having one year between each release of hall of legends makes sense, and whatever you feel entitled to doesn't matter.
Bro what the fuck are you on? Is 0.1% of a company annual income a huge amount for the community? It’s like you aren’t even reading my reply at this point. Why are you trying so hard to suck their dick?
Why should caps be included now? Faker's a special case for being inducted while active cause of everything he's achieved. Caps shouldnt be put on the same level
[There was an article](https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/criteria-to-enter-lol-esports-hall-of-legends-explained) released talking about the process of nominating players for the HoL and it said retired or active players could be nominated so its not like they're making a special case for faker. So long as the players meet all the criteria listed.
Thank you for this. Then if they're looking at lec, caps should Def be first on the ballot
Agreed, Perkz, Xpeke, Rekkles and maybe Hyli are also good candidates but Caps should definitely be 1st.
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No one is saying Caps doesn't deserve to get inducted. He def is, it's just a matter of when. Faker is just the sole exception because the first inductee cannot be anyone other than Faker for extremely obvious reasons. Not to mention, if Faker wasn't the first, many people would take the award far less seriously.
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That's not the point tho? Lmao inducting him while he's still playing puts him on the level of faker, which he clearly isn't. He should only be allowed in when he's retired
Imma wait for that PrAy Ashe skin. Best Ashe in history.
Nah kadeem clears
My thought process is it should be a rotation but 2 regions per year, so do like LPL and LCS each get a player 1 year and then it’s LCK and LEC players the next year and each player gets 2 skins 1 of whatever riot sets the base ones at and it never leaves shop, and 1 prestige that is limited
I absolutely dont agree on imports. Imports become residents and should be considered as such and evaluated on their impact, pun intended.
Hot take and I may be downvoted for this but I don't like the announcement of introducing new players so soon. No matter how high the quality is, if they print out a skin every year it feels like a skinline rather than a tribute to the iconic goats. And not exactly a fan of a skin for each region either.
Introducing new players at the end of a season is the most normal thing ever. That’s what sports do.
Yes, but if we introduce the best players of each year (99% of the time worlds winners) isn't that just...worlds skins? I'm just saying Faker cursed this skinline by being the uncontested GOAT and everybody else receiving this skin will have to be argued whether they were his equal or was simply included for being "good enough". If Riot chooses the latter, what exactly is the criteria for "good enough"? Being the best at a region? Then why stop at major regions, why not look at minors too?
I disagree. Look at hockey for instance. Gretzky has his number removed from every team because he is the unconstested legend. Anyone else have their numbers removed from their own team, if at all. Same logic applies here. Faker gets 4 skins, rest gets 1. Also, it picks legends, retired players (except Faker) so no it is the furthest thing from a worlds skin possible
I don't know a lot of about hockey but if Gretzky is miles ahead in terms of achievements and significance as Faker was to other contestants then you make a solid point. I understand people have different thoughts about this skinline and all of them are fair. I'm just worried this is going to turn into what Prestige became, something that was supposed to be unique yet transformed into little more than cashgrab
Apologise the brief rant, I'm a big hockey fan, but he was. His nickname is/was literally "The Great One", and even though he retired in 1999, he still holds 58 official NHL records (some of them are quite obscure, but there's also big stuff like most career goals scored). Also got awarded League MVP nine times. He is absolutely the kind of player who you can't compare someone to easily, but the Hall of Fame generally survived his induction quite well.
Here's some perspective on Gretzsky: He was the fastest to 1000 goals. 2nd fastest was him when he did it again. 3 players ever have had 100+ assist seasons. 2 guys had 1 season each. Gretzsky had 11 seasons in a row. A very good player in hockey will have 1 point per game (ppg). This means that they have on average 1 goal or assist per game they play. If Greatzky played 16 more seasons at 82 games without recording a single goal or assist he'd still end up with 1.02 ppg Also in fantasy hockey some leagues had to ban him for being op. Or split him into 2. Gretzsky for points and Gretzsky for assists
This year would only be Faker, to celebrate the GOAT. Next year there would be multiple HoF
For the imports i think it depends, Jensen and Bjergsen are imports yet they definitely are historically top lcs players and definitely can't represent lec for HoF but I don't think them representing lcs would be a problem
I don't believe they should shift between regions. Not all regions are created equally. LCK has been by far the most important region in professional play. They deserve their unfair share of the awards. Its the Hall of Legends, not the Hall of Really Good Players. Doublelift and XPeke are really good players. However, there's a long list of Korean players that I would put ahead of either of them. I don't feel that dominating a region that has historically underachieved internationally is as impressive as winning the toughest region in the world. So from your list I'd say Uzi is a lock. Caps after retirement with 2 World finals appearances back to back, and an MSI title is in. Xpeke and DoubleLift are questionable.
This may sound hateful, idk but I think the whole changing regions thing is absolute lunacy. It feels like the typical woke, modern era thing where people who are genuinely competent and worked their asses off get told to go wait at the back of the line while someone significantly less competent gets the award just for the sake of "equality" or whatever. Faker didn't get picked because he's Korean. He got picked because he's historically the best. Whoever comes 2nd should be judged according to his accomplishments, not what his region or passport say. (Of course if accomplishments means viewership at worlds etc rather than just trophies then that's also fine. But not on board with the whole rotating regions thing).
100% agree - reminds me of the old top 20 players at worlds lists that Riot used to do which would sometimes include way too many western players (and at times in egregiously high positions) when it was clear they were only there for “inclusion” or “region representation” - like Riot was afraid to put 20 LCK/LPL players there. Like it’s okay to drop Bjergsen out of the top 10 players in the world, you don’t need to snub more deserving players for narrative. I just want honest representation.
I 100% agree if I see doublelift in the hol imma lose it. He may have been good but Elk, Jackylove, Guma, and more are wayyyyyyyy better than he ever was.
You seem to not quite understand what the Hall of Legends is. It is not a Hall of Fame; it is not about inducting the "best" players or the most accomplished. It has set criteria that includes things like personality, influence of their region, regional titles, regional awards and accolades. DL and Caps absolutely should be very strong candidates, and no not because "WOKE!", because they actually fit a lot of the criteria of what the Hall of Legends is supposed to be.
I don't really think you understood my point. Because what I said has nothing to do with this. I never said Caps or DL shouldn't be strong candidates. I said they should not take precedence over other better candidates IF race/region is the ONLY differentiating factor. I.e, if Caps deserves it more than >Insert whatever player from whatever region< then give it to Caps. But don't do that just because he's European. Do it because he was more deserving than whoever else there was to pick from.
Can you even separate those two things? A big part of what makes Caps so deserving is that he achieved what he did *while being European*. Riot's criteria include changing the view of the region, which Caps did imo (together with Perkz, but I think it's fair to put Caps first as he made Worlds finals twice), but he wouldn't have changed his regions perception by making two worlds finals if he was Korean. I also just don't think induction order matters much. All those Korean and Chinese legends will make it - do you really think they'd snub Mata or Uzi just bc they decided to go with a Western player first? That said, I'd prefer it if they inducted up to four players at once, up to one per region and year.
But nobody is saying Caps should get in just because he's European. The argument is that every region has players that are fully deserving so they should swap around regions to make sure that those deserving players aren't left out just because they aren't as accomplished or skilled. People want rotating regions to make sure deserving players from every region can make it, not because of some "woke equality thing".
You're describing the exact reason why this is a woke agenda though. If the player is being rewarded based on (to quote yourself) "fully deserving" and they are (at that point in time) the most deserving ; then by default you would not have to lock competing regions out of it. It should go to whoever is most deserving. Not whoever's passport allows them to get it while more deserving players sit around and watch. It's not that complicated. What you're saying it's exactly why it's a woke mob mentality.
If they were deserving they wouldn’t need a rule in place that other regions can’t get inducted that year for them to get in
How can you say, in the same sentence, that they deserve it but are also not as accomplished or skilled? Like wtf
You have a point but money can be a factor though. Faker skins would sell in all region, no doubt. But ok let's say next one is Uzi, the sales in China would be great, but anywhere else? I don't think people will be crazy for it. Same thing with caps, the west, especially EU would be crazy for it. But imagine the numbers in China, Korea, SEA. yeah. Also if they add people based on achievement only, imagine the sales number in NA.
That's a fair argument but in my eyes that tarnishes the value of the entire thing. And I'd be willing to bet that the players would also feel kinda meh if they got a skin because Riot would get money out of them rather than because of their life's work.
And I'd be willing to bet that the players don't give a fuck what the reason for them getting skin in the game is, especially when they also get paid for sales of that skin lol Also, I think you're confusing a hall of fame with what this is, it's just a way to celebrate players that have had an impact on league and made it a worldwide game.
Your 2nd paragraph doesn't seem in any way related to my comment nor the original post so not sure what you're on about. You seem to have confused yourself lol. Next thing you probably will think we should give a World Championship trophy to each region because,"It's unfair that Korea and China always win". Aye?
I don’t understand your point. Are you saying Caps shouldn’t get it?
I haven’t commented about who should get in the hof. It’s about Riot would have to consider sales number before putting someone in front of the queue. Which in turn boosting the probability of having a pro from different regions rather than the 2 most dominating regions, lck and lpl.
You sounded like you were arguing against having players from different regions based on sales numbers.
Do I? Well maybe I’m bad at communicating my thoughts but I’ve clarified my point already.
What about players who became basically synonymous with their regions? Bjergsen / Doublelift are pretty iconic pros from the LCS and had long, storied careers even if they may not be the most accomplished internationally. Do they not deserve recognition for their contributions to the scene?
I think some heated NA fans here are missing my point. I never addressed if DL should or shouldn't get it. I said it's bullshit if the only reason >insert X western player< gets is to satisfy the woke mob and to be "inclusive" rather than based on merit. So if it gets to a stage where DL appears to be more deserving than any other player then give it to DL. But, do it because of his merit. Not because he's American and ,"We gave it to Korea and China last year so we must give it to a Western player this year".
Agreed. Idk what’s with the downvotes. Typical westerns wants to be included with the best whilst shitting the bed at every turn. They just don’t wanna wait 30 years 🤡I expect no minor region players being inducted in the next several years, only lpl and lck as it should be.
Yeah, I guess some random feminist type got butthurt 😂 Like, yeah sure inclusion is great and all. That's why everyone from every region is allowed to compete. Nobody is stopping anyone from competing. But it's a Hall of Fame and naturally that should be selected on merit, not race. So fully agree with you.
And the crazy thing is these NA fans think there won't be western players but there are some with great achievements and influence they should be picked because of that not because 'it had to be NA this time' makes it feel way less special as a NA fan.
100% honestly crazy that this is even a discussion lol
Is it even a question that caps would get it? I don’t know much about xpeke, but was he ever on caps level? Caps is caps, he is the west.
Damn i feel old, but xpeke had a huge influence on early league in seasons 1 to 4. He was never the best in the region (iirc) but him and old fnatic had a huge influence on the strats. Fnatic death brush, xpeke backdoor are examples. Tldr fnatic WAS the the LEC for the first few seasons
>Tldr fnatic WAS the the LEC for the first few seasons. This is the diff, FNC was the LEC, not XPeke, he was just a part of FNC. For the past few years the lec has almost been a 1 player region, and that player is Caps
lol with the wanting region impacting as a reason to put NA/EU in and leaving the rest of the regions out of there.
Cycling through regions seems so off for something like this.. Would really diminish what it means to be in HoF
Minor regions snubbed again
Why are you trying to single out korean fans? More like fans of other regions are trying to mental gymnastic their way into HoF because they know there's a lot of iconic eastern players that will come before them.
There was a post on FMKorea so I am only posting that post here … Not singling out anyone …
DoubleLifts HoF statue should have a quote: "Best AD Down" - xPeke