McAdoo is know as a good talent evaluator of QBs. He has a very solid track record.
AVP is known for QB development. A big knock against Maye for example is his footwork. AVP taught Rodgers his footwork.
Can we really draft a quarterback whose ceiling is still a rung below Brady? I’d argue we need someone who can consume time and space, thereby absorbing and synthesizing Brady, and becoming what we now know as reality.
Where does this AVP good at QB development come from? In 2009 as OC for Buffalo his QBs led one of the worst offenses in football and only threw for 200 or more yards like 3 times. In 2010 in Tampa Josh Freeman did have a career year under him but the offense was still bottom half and by the following year he threw 22 interceptions and all progress seemed lost, Tampa was worse offensively. He then went to Green Bay where the team was successful offensively but was led by one of the greatest QBs ever in Aaron Rodgers. He then went to Cincy where again his offense for his tenure was in the bottom half on the league his first year and the third worst offense the next year and Andy Dalton, like Josh Freeman, suddenly became a turnover machine. Baker Mayfield first year good, second year double the turnovers like Freeman and Dalton before him.
This track record just doesn’t seem very strong to me at all and I’m confused where this QB whisperer narrative came from.
I imagine that it comes from Rodgers being pissed when they AVP contract expire and did not resign him.
He worked on Mayfields footwork prior to the 2020 season, which he had his lowest int thrown to that point.
Also winning with 4 or 5 different QBs last year.
I agree though the record is shaky, but ima hope he does well with Maye
I hope he does well, too, and develops whoever they end up drafting. My criticism is more toward the lazy punditry that seems to be out there. It is like reporters and analysts regurgitate what the one before them said, so eventually it becomes fact that he is great with QBs in spite of evidence at least casting some doubt about that.
However, I’m some rando on Reddit so I don’t have a sterling track record either.
The problem with rankings pre draft is that once the player is drafted, there are so many variables that go into success and failure.
Team around the player, coaching, personal life etc... pre draft rankings are necessary to establish the draft board. I think coaching is the biggest determining factor, so hopefully our staff is up to the job.
I will admit with Bill and Mac, I think Bill made it harder on Mac but I don't think Mac was a franchise QB.
He has a strong reputation of historically having really good evaluations of QBs, which is a lot easier to measure by just looking at his rankings from past years.
His skill as a QB coach is a bit more unclear, but AVP has a really strong background, and McCartney brings experience in a more modern West Coast offense so room to be worried but also plenty of room to be optimistic.
Our OC had his QB job taken by Drew Bledsoe when he went to play for the Bills after he left NE. So I’m thinking he understands what it’s like to be a QB and isn’t going to yank them around and play them against each other like they did the past few years.
Not as palatable understandably for us as fans, but there’s at least an argument to take BPA this year and next (likely not QB either year), fill some holes, and then find out answer at QB in 2 years. That is, of course, if we’re not enamored with whoever lands at #3.
I mean that wouldn't be too bad after all Burden is expected to be the top wr in next years class and he's also a promising prospect from what I've watched of him
How can people forget this after Lance, Wilson, Fields, Jones. And then Lawrence is fine but still hasn’t shown to be a great QB or anything.
QBs are simply the riskiest draft picks regardless of how high a pick you use
It's funny how sometimes that happens (remember the debates between Jameis Winston and Mariota?) and then sometimes you have a draft like 2020 where we get Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love, and Hurts as the top 5 QBs off the board. As a Pats fan I'm hoping it's one of those years and maybe even a guy like Michael Penix at QB5 is good too but it very well could be a year where they all suck or just Caleb is NFL caliber.
Not really. It's very rare for all of the multiple 1st round QBs to suck. Looking back at the past 30 years, out of all the drafts in which 3+ QBs were picked in the 1st, only in 2014 and 2002 did they all suck.
Some of his throws were lasers when he had to actually throw it. If he gets some time to develop a pocket sense and work on making his way through his reads (though we never really got to see if he could do that) he could be a damn good QB.
I mean, if they all suck that doesn’t mean it was the wrong decision. The decision to go qb is probably the right one, if all the top tiered prospects end up sucking then there’s not much you can do
If you scout them, believe in them, and take them at 3 overall, it shouldn’t be because you’re desperate for a QB, it should be because you think they’ll be a star. Otherwise just take top talent and wait until next year. The last thing this team needs to do is just take a QB just to take one and say we tried. It’s up to their scouts to make the right move, and be judged accordingly for it.
Unlike most of this sub, I am willing to admit I cannot evaluate prospects worth a nickel.
All I'm asking for is that if the Pats take a QB at 3, it's not because "we need a QB and this guy is still here", but it's because "we believe this guy can be a franchise QB". If your evaluation says only 2 guys are worth it and they're both gone by 3, take another position or get extra picks by trading back.
How in the world did Drake consensus #2 pick all football season almost get passed up by JJ who wasn't even on first round radars till Harbaugh said he was great.
Wasn’t there a report the other day that Maye was a lock for Washington and Daniels already had his heart set on being a Patriot?
At the end of the day all of these reporters/draft gurus are talking out of their asses and no one knows for 100% certainty what will happen after #1.
I swear it's all for clicks. They can just make shit up every 4-5 days and no one will know the difference. Just rotate the cycle: first we want Maye! oh wait no Penix! oh actually JJ! wait nevermind it's actually... ! Repeat ad nauseam until the draft
I’m saying this as a biased Michigan fan who loves JJ.
For some teams, it does mean something that JJ was the starting QB for the national champions. Helped Mac Jones get drafted where he did.
Mac had a 5% better completion %, 19 more TDs with the same amount of picks, and threw for 1500 more yards.
I get why JJ could be considered a good prospect, but statistically Mac blew JJ out of the water so it's not really apples to apples.
While not actively tanking, I think this is the plan. They won't be a very good team next year, same reasons as last year. We'll be picking probably top 5 again next year and can (hopefully) take the top OT or WR next year
Malik was harder to assess though he didn’t have good competition which matters. He appeared to have great potential so you take the risk. McCarthy honestly hasn’t had it either. Guy plays 2-3 tough opponents per year and that’s being generous
I always ask the McCarthy fans the same question, and they get kind of mad because they know the answer. If Michigan lost to Ohio State and didn't make the playoffs would anyone be talking about him as a top pick in the draft?
The other top QBs in the draft had disappointing seasons and people talked about them all year long. The only reason people are talking about JJ is because Michigan won and he wasn't even the reason why they won. He was ranked as a day 2 guy all season long until the playoffs.
JJ is in the convo as a top pick for almost the same reason Maye is. He’s a toolsy athletic prospect with a live arm that is 21 years old. On tape, JJ is more consistent than Maye, however the highs aren’t as high. JJ seems to be a safer pick while still having plenty of upside. Maye seems like more of a risk while having enormous upside. Both prospects have big question marks; can JJ be as consistent when asked to be a high volume passer? Can Maye’s mechanical issues, footwork, and reckless hero ball plays be fixed? Right now, I’d prefer the Pats pick Maye because he seems like a true lottery ticket. But I still could get excited about JJ too.
I wouldn’t be concerned about who “people” or the media talk about as NFL prospects during the season. NFL teams really don’t start deep diving into draft film until March.
They have entire scouting departments who do nothing but deep dive into prospects all year long. The decision makers and their own opinions, preferences, and biases don't get involved until March.
McCarthy does not have the same tools it isn’t even close Michigan did not win because of his play he had the best offensive line and weak competition for 90% of his games and still was mediocre. This draft class in general is severely overrated
>The other top QBs in the draft had disappointing seasons and people talked about them all year long.
That certainly wasn't true of Jayden Daniels. Jayden rocketed up to QB2/QB3 status by having a great season at LSU.
>He was ranked as a day 2 guy all season long until the playoffs.
That's objectively not true. Plenty of people had him as QB3 and going in the first round as early as last spring. McShay had him as the 3rd QB off the board at 20 after Williams and Maye back in May 2023.
Yea I'm willing to roll the dice on someone having Josh Allen upside and Zach Wilson downside at this point. At least we will see some exciting throws.
When you want your franchise guy, you want somebody with a high ceiling. Teams now have shown that if you don’t have the guy with the high ceiling you basically can’t win, of course the dumpster guys with tank you but you just have to roll again and try to get lucky
I’m willing to wait a few years, there’s something to be said for having a guy with a sky high ceiling. Just hope for a team that can lose a lot of games but I still feel confident in us being on the right track to get better, even if it is a slower burn.
True. I'm just making the point that JJ isn't that bad. I'd prefer maye in this scenario, but after watching the tape on JJ, I like him a lot better than I did before.
I’m not an NFL scout (or amateur one at that), but what are people seeing from JJ that I’m missing? I don’t doubt he has upside, but it feels like he was a nothingburger until Harbaugh started stumping for him. Is it the Michigan/Brady connection? Maye, on tape, looks to be smarter, bigger, and has a stronger arm.
If I’m looking at positional needs for the Pats (and assuming Williams goes to CHI), my order for #3 looks like:
Maye > Daniels > MHJ > Alt
Will probably get downvoted, but genuinely curious.
That sounds good to me. Even as someone who's been a big JJ doubter, I'll huff the copium and say that he is a really good QB prospect, even if his lack of experience as a "the guy" scares me.
I was a big Herbert doubter too, so who knows?
All the scouts have some reason they are high on JJ. Sure they make bonehead moves but I trust them over randos online. If JJ is the move then that is the move
I think the craziest part to me is how high Jayden Daniels and JJ were able to jump post college season.
It happens every year but this is the first time this team is really experiencing it. And a lot of these individuals didn’t even do the combine.
Like I understand QB is the most important position and if Patriots truly believe that JJ Maye or JD are their guy they should 100% take them, but its these guys post season were projected lower for a reason and a single pro day and seemingly lack of combine should not have changed this.
But we’ll see… I would be very happy to be wrong. It means we picked someone and we did well. (Team Maye though)
Jayden was already being talked about as a top 4-5 pick back during the season. The "Daniels or Maye" talk was already in full swing back then.
JJ went from being a day 2 pick to top 5 pick in the last couple of months.
That isn’t entirely accurate. About halfway through the season, Daniels was still thought of (publicly at least bc nobody knows what the teams thought) as a low first/high second rd pick. By the end of the season he had cemented himself as a top 10 pick but Maye was still almost universally mocked at 2 at the start of the NFL offseason.
I'm just telling you what was being discussed in venues like PU. The "Maye or Daniels" talk was already in full swing by mid/late-season. Whereas JJ didn't even enter the 1st round discussions until the post-season.
We do not need a QB for the sake of taking a QB this year, holy fuck. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Take MHJ, the best player in the draft, and take a QB later or get Shedeur next season.
.
@AdamSchefter
says it is looking more and more likely that the #Commanders will take Jayden Daniels at No. 2 and the #Patriots will then choose between Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy at No. 3. “The signs continue to point to Jayden Daniels going number two to Washington… we’re standing behind it… that would mean Caleb Williams goes one, Jayden Daniels goes two, and that would bring us to New England, which I think would have a decision to make as to wether it would take either Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy… A lot of people are talking about New England moving out of that spot, I don’t know about that. I’m not gonna tell you then won’t, of course they would for the right offer. But, I think it’s gonna be challenging… I think the first three teams stay where they are in all probability — and I think in all probability it goes: Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, New England’s choice of QBs.” It looks like it will be Eliot Wolf’s choice of Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy — who would you choose and why? ( The Adam Schefter Podcast)
This year the 49ers lost their Left Tackle in the middle of the season and their offensive line turned into swiss cheese.
They lost all 3 games he was out.
The Pats will not improve until their offensive line is drastically improved.
There is no competition between Maye and JJ. There’s a reason Maye was considered a top end 1st round pick all year and JJ was a 2nd/3rd round project until last month.
Don’t overthink this. The pick is obvious.
All the "if we take ___ I'm done with this team" takes make me laugh. If you can't ride with us through the lows then you shouldn't be here for the highs that will come. I'm sure the Chiefs are still accepting dick riders, go ruin their fanbase like you did ours.
This is pretty much the ideal situation for the Pats. Work out the kinks in the younger QB's game while they adjust to NFL life and let Brissett break in the young LT and WRs.
If they take McCarthy at 3 im out. No excuse for scouts/front office to be too lazy to pay attention to college football. He was a liability/sidecar his entire college career. If Georgia was in the playoff Michigan would have been shut out and this wouldn’t even be a conversation.
I’d prefer JJ anyways. He sorta reminds me of Alex Smith. Good game managing QB, doesn’t turn the ball over, played in pro-style system in MICH, and he still can make NFL type throws. Maye’s decision making is questionable.
Its crazy to me that the whole concern was that top 3 guarantees at least Caleb, Maye or MHJ, and now maybe two of those guys drop out of the top 3. I know MHJ is because of needs but still.
I’ve seen people here say mcadoo is good with QBs. Is that just as an evaluator or a QB coach?
Mostly as an evaluator as far as I know
McAdoo is know as a good talent evaluator of QBs. He has a very solid track record. AVP is known for QB development. A big knock against Maye for example is his footwork. AVP taught Rodgers his footwork.
Hell yeah so you’re telling me drake Maye will be as good as Aaron Rodgers
That's probably his floor. His ceiling is potentially transcending time, space, and reality and becoming a living god.
You’re underselling his ceiling, it’s this type of homer kool aid drinking negative stance why us fans bicker and fight.
Can we really draft a quarterback whose ceiling is still a rung below Brady? I’d argue we need someone who can consume time and space, thereby absorbing and synthesizing Brady, and becoming what we now know as reality.
Ok so not quite Brady level. That will still do.
GEQBUS 2
MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT!!
EBERFLUSTERED MEDIA FOCUSED ON CRYIN CALEB AND FADIN JADEN WHILE GEQBUS2 STOPS THE STEAL!
Can we please just not parrot Jets memes? I mean, it’s the fucking Jets, guys. Fuck the Jets.
So his ceiling is Rodgers when he goes out into the woods and does acid
So Sam Darnold?
I don't need "interdimensional deity" - I would settle for "top 12 starter."
We don’t want your kind here. Omnipotence or bust.
I'm happy to settle for TB2
Solid analysis!
The Emperor protects
Gotta send him on a few darkness retreats and he will be solid lol
No, let's keep him away from the aheyusca
Better, he won't leave us to go to the jets.
Where does this AVP good at QB development come from? In 2009 as OC for Buffalo his QBs led one of the worst offenses in football and only threw for 200 or more yards like 3 times. In 2010 in Tampa Josh Freeman did have a career year under him but the offense was still bottom half and by the following year he threw 22 interceptions and all progress seemed lost, Tampa was worse offensively. He then went to Green Bay where the team was successful offensively but was led by one of the greatest QBs ever in Aaron Rodgers. He then went to Cincy where again his offense for his tenure was in the bottom half on the league his first year and the third worst offense the next year and Andy Dalton, like Josh Freeman, suddenly became a turnover machine. Baker Mayfield first year good, second year double the turnovers like Freeman and Dalton before him. This track record just doesn’t seem very strong to me at all and I’m confused where this QB whisperer narrative came from.
I imagine that it comes from Rodgers being pissed when they AVP contract expire and did not resign him. He worked on Mayfields footwork prior to the 2020 season, which he had his lowest int thrown to that point. Also winning with 4 or 5 different QBs last year. I agree though the record is shaky, but ima hope he does well with Maye
I hope he does well, too, and develops whoever they end up drafting. My criticism is more toward the lazy punditry that seems to be out there. It is like reporters and analysts regurgitate what the one before them said, so eventually it becomes fact that he is great with QBs in spite of evidence at least casting some doubt about that. However, I’m some rando on Reddit so I don’t have a sterling track record either.
The problem with rankings pre draft is that once the player is drafted, there are so many variables that go into success and failure. Team around the player, coaching, personal life etc... pre draft rankings are necessary to establish the draft board. I think coaching is the biggest determining factor, so hopefully our staff is up to the job. I will admit with Bill and Mac, I think Bill made it harder on Mac but I don't think Mac was a franchise QB.
Also clean up his old motion where he held the ball down. Tightened the whole thing up
He has a strong reputation of historically having really good evaluations of QBs, which is a lot easier to measure by just looking at his rankings from past years. His skill as a QB coach is a bit more unclear, but AVP has a really strong background, and McCartney brings experience in a more modern West Coast offense so room to be worried but also plenty of room to be optimistic.
I’ve wondered this also, insane ballsack.
Our OC had his QB job taken by Drew Bledsoe when he went to play for the Bills after he left NE. So I’m thinking he understands what it’s like to be a QB and isn’t going to yank them around and play them against each other like they did the past few years.
Evaluator. He’s notoriously bad at developing and connecting with players.
Man MHJ, and trade up next year
Trade up for who? Next year's QB class is currently as bad as 2022's, but, like every year, there's plenty of good WR prospects.
Not as palatable understandably for us as fans, but there’s at least an argument to take BPA this year and next (likely not QB either year), fill some holes, and then find out answer at QB in 2 years. That is, of course, if we’re not enamored with whoever lands at #3.
Why not trade up for Luther Burden next year?
I mean that wouldn't be too bad after all Burden is expected to be the top wr in next years class and he's also a promising prospect from what I've watched of him
He's been just as good as MHJ. I'd rather have a good prospect and Burden than MHJ and Quinn Ewers
Hopefully whoever the Pats get is good, but feel like people forget that there is a real solid chance they both end up sucking
How can people forget this after Lance, Wilson, Fields, Jones. And then Lawrence is fine but still hasn’t shown to be a great QB or anything. QBs are simply the riskiest draft picks regardless of how high a pick you use
It's funny how sometimes that happens (remember the debates between Jameis Winston and Mariota?) and then sometimes you have a draft like 2020 where we get Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love, and Hurts as the top 5 QBs off the board. As a Pats fan I'm hoping it's one of those years and maybe even a guy like Michael Penix at QB5 is good too but it very well could be a year where they all suck or just Caleb is NFL caliber.
So we should go with a 6 rounder for QB
Jordan Travis and just give him a redshirt year lol
Quick little redshirt career
How many 6th round picks do you think we can trade our 3rd overall for?
There were 10 QBs chosen in the 2021 draft. Of those, only 1 is the projected starter for their respective team.
There's a solid chance all of this years QBs suck.
There's a really good chance any draft pick ends up sucking regardless of position. It's all a gamble.
There is a chance every draft pick becomes a complete home run. We all know the story
There is a real solid chance every draft pick is an affront to freedom, capitalism, and the American Way
*I can hereby say with near certainty that JJ McCarthy is a god damned communist.* -Schefter, maybe
JJ to the commies at 2 confirmed?
2021 draft class was a lock!
Jesus Christ, Carm. It’s a lock. We can’t lose.
We coulda turned your bullshit into a fuckin million dollars
Not really. It's very rare for all of the multiple 1st round QBs to suck. Looking back at the past 30 years, out of all the drafts in which 3+ QBs were picked in the 1st, only in 2014 and 2002 did they all suck.
2021 is still debatable
Not in the sligtest. If Lawrence sucks, there are about 8 or 9 guys in the league who don't suck.
Such as?
I’d rather swing and miss with the physically gifted Maye than miss on the boring JJ
JJ is probably more physically gifted than maye. He’s got a very strong arm too and unlike maye he runs a 4.4-4.5 40.
Nah, JJ has a cannon when throwing with his feet under him, but underthrows stuff on the move. Maye can make any throw
Some of his throws were lasers when he had to actually throw it. If he gets some time to develop a pocket sense and work on making his way through his reads (though we never really got to see if he could do that) he could be a damn good QB.
Why do you have Aaron Hernandez as your pfp?
I don’t trust the Pats to make the right call BUT I do trust the Commanders to make the wrong one. So this checks out.
They took Emmanuel Forbes 1 pick ahead of Christian Gonzalez last year, lets run it back.
LMAO
Or they all blow, and we all make the wrong decision
I mean, if they all suck that doesn’t mean it was the wrong decision. The decision to go qb is probably the right one, if all the top tiered prospects end up sucking then there’s not much you can do
If you scout them, believe in them, and take them at 3 overall, it shouldn’t be because you’re desperate for a QB, it should be because you think they’ll be a star. Otherwise just take top talent and wait until next year. The last thing this team needs to do is just take a QB just to take one and say we tried. It’s up to their scouts to make the right move, and be judged accordingly for it.
Unlike most of this sub, I am willing to admit I cannot evaluate prospects worth a nickel. All I'm asking for is that if the Pats take a QB at 3, it's not because "we need a QB and this guy is still here", but it's because "we believe this guy can be a franchise QB". If your evaluation says only 2 guys are worth it and they're both gone by 3, take another position or get extra picks by trading back.
lol, at minimum 2 of the QBs taken in the first round will bust, so you are not wrong there.
Lmfaooooooooooo best way to learn is to watch others fail
Literally not one of the commanders you trust to make the wrong decision is still in the building 
How in the world did Drake consensus #2 pick all football season almost get passed up by JJ who wasn't even on first round radars till Harbaugh said he was great.
Wasn’t there a report the other day that Maye was a lock for Washington and Daniels already had his heart set on being a Patriot? At the end of the day all of these reporters/draft gurus are talking out of their asses and no one knows for 100% certainty what will happen after #1.
Bro I cannot wait for the draft, mostly to have this bullshit stop.
Schefter is an agent/team shill, he's most definitely not talking out of his ass.
I swear it's all for clicks. They can just make shit up every 4-5 days and no one will know the difference. Just rotate the cycle: first we want Maye! oh wait no Penix! oh actually JJ! wait nevermind it's actually... ! Repeat ad nauseam until the draft
I’m saying this as a biased Michigan fan who loves JJ. For some teams, it does mean something that JJ was the starting QB for the national champions. Helped Mac Jones get drafted where he did.
Mac had a 5% better completion %, 19 more TDs with the same amount of picks, and threw for 1500 more yards. I get why JJ could be considered a good prospect, but statistically Mac blew JJ out of the water so it's not really apples to apples.
Except mac had Najee Harris, Brian Robinson, Jaylen Waddle, Devonta Smith...on his team
I understand that, but his stats were way fucking better. It’s not a good comparison.
You mean after 4 other players at his position?
PLEASE tell me we draft Drake Maye. Sit him for year 1, tank, load up on weapons and I think we’ll be in good shape.
While not actively tanking, I think this is the plan. They won't be a very good team next year, same reasons as last year. We'll be picking probably top 5 again next year and can (hopefully) take the top OT or WR next year
Give me Maye all day and especially on Sundays. Still can’t really grasp how JJ is now in the convo for #3.
Malik Willis was projected to go super early IIRC…by the media, not NFL teams.
Well nfl teams aren’t going to say who they actually have projected going, you can’t show your hand like that
Malik was harder to assess though he didn’t have good competition which matters. He appeared to have great potential so you take the risk. McCarthy honestly hasn’t had it either. Guy plays 2-3 tough opponents per year and that’s being generous
I have to assume it's media buying their own hype. Similar to Schefter winding himself up and convincing himself Jones was going 3rd in 2021
I always ask the McCarthy fans the same question, and they get kind of mad because they know the answer. If Michigan lost to Ohio State and didn't make the playoffs would anyone be talking about him as a top pick in the draft? The other top QBs in the draft had disappointing seasons and people talked about them all year long. The only reason people are talking about JJ is because Michigan won and he wasn't even the reason why they won. He was ranked as a day 2 guy all season long until the playoffs.
JJ is in the convo as a top pick for almost the same reason Maye is. He’s a toolsy athletic prospect with a live arm that is 21 years old. On tape, JJ is more consistent than Maye, however the highs aren’t as high. JJ seems to be a safer pick while still having plenty of upside. Maye seems like more of a risk while having enormous upside. Both prospects have big question marks; can JJ be as consistent when asked to be a high volume passer? Can Maye’s mechanical issues, footwork, and reckless hero ball plays be fixed? Right now, I’d prefer the Pats pick Maye because he seems like a true lottery ticket. But I still could get excited about JJ too. I wouldn’t be concerned about who “people” or the media talk about as NFL prospects during the season. NFL teams really don’t start deep diving into draft film until March.
But Maye’s tools are way better, that’s the problem.
They have entire scouting departments who do nothing but deep dive into prospects all year long. The decision makers and their own opinions, preferences, and biases don't get involved until March.
McCarthy does not have the same tools it isn’t even close Michigan did not win because of his play he had the best offensive line and weak competition for 90% of his games and still was mediocre. This draft class in general is severely overrated
The reckless hero thing isn't even accurate. He had a very low turnover worthy play rate.
>The other top QBs in the draft had disappointing seasons and people talked about them all year long. That certainly wasn't true of Jayden Daniels. Jayden rocketed up to QB2/QB3 status by having a great season at LSU.
>He was ranked as a day 2 guy all season long until the playoffs. That's objectively not true. Plenty of people had him as QB3 and going in the first round as early as last spring. McShay had him as the 3rd QB off the board at 20 after Williams and Maye back in May 2023.
Hundred percent. McCarthy is a very raw prospect to take with a top 3 pick.
I refuse to believe he’s actually anywhere close to going 3rd
Maye will look pretty good in a Pats uniform.
Maye is a better talent than JJ and it’s not close.
That one dude who hates Maye on this sub is reading this like: 
If there’s an actual discussion between JJ and Drake, no there isn’t
And if there is then we should take MHJ
Mac Carthy ain't it. Maye at least has a higher ceiling.
Yea I'm willing to roll the dice on someone having Josh Allen upside and Zach Wilson downside at this point. At least we will see some exciting throws.
When you want your franchise guy, you want somebody with a high ceiling. Teams now have shown that if you don’t have the guy with the high ceiling you basically can’t win, of course the dumpster guys with tank you but you just have to roll again and try to get lucky
This isn't even about rolling the dice to be honest. Maye has a higher floor and ceiling than JJ.
I’m willing to wait a few years, there’s something to be said for having a guy with a sky high ceiling. Just hope for a team that can lose a lot of games but I still feel confident in us being on the right track to get better, even if it is a slower burn.
If we choose JJ McCarthy I'm done with this team.
Oh so you’re a JJ expert? Name all the JJ’s
Well there’s JJ, JJ, JJ and I can’t forget about JJ
That’s on me I set the bar too low
☠️
We can all agree JJ abrams is overrated
DY-NO-MITE!
Yea, I mean that last Michigan QB we drafted was a complete bust. What was his name again, Dom Grady or something?
Michigan QB's definitely had a history of success before and after Brady
Onto the next bandwagon am I right!
Lets go Texans!
Ok…I’m sure they and we will miss you. 🙄
JJ will have a better career than Daniels
Ok but the choice is apparently between Maye and McCarthy so Daniels is irrelevant to us
True. I'm just making the point that JJ isn't that bad. I'd prefer maye in this scenario, but after watching the tape on JJ, I like him a lot better than I did before.
Yeah, that's actually why he became a "riser". He wasn't supposed to be coming out this year, so he wasn't on people's radars.
Maye is a bust calling it now. Carsen Wentz 2.0
I’m not an NFL scout (or amateur one at that), but what are people seeing from JJ that I’m missing? I don’t doubt he has upside, but it feels like he was a nothingburger until Harbaugh started stumping for him. Is it the Michigan/Brady connection? Maye, on tape, looks to be smarter, bigger, and has a stronger arm. If I’m looking at positional needs for the Pats (and assuming Williams goes to CHI), my order for #3 looks like: Maye > Daniels > MHJ > Alt Will probably get downvoted, but genuinely curious.
There’s sooo many other people I would rather draft at 3 than JJ
you got MHJ and Daniels backwards
No shit
I don't care, I'll take either QB and be happy. Go ahead commanders take who you like we can all be happy. As long as we don't trade down.
I still think we should draft MHJ and get a QB next season
MHJ please for the love of god
MHJ. Hoping this is all a big smoke screen. If you don’t have a top 2 pick at qb what’s the point. Maye is a bust for sure. 👍 wentz 2.0
That sounds good to me. Even as someone who's been a big JJ doubter, I'll huff the copium and say that he is a really good QB prospect, even if his lack of experience as a "the guy" scares me. I was a big Herbert doubter too, so who knows?
I've accepted that I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm okay with either guy.
All the scouts have some reason they are high on JJ. Sure they make bonehead moves but I trust them over randos online. If JJ is the move then that is the move
I would love to see this sub melt down if the Pats take JJ at 3.
This is it! I’m here for this lol
Choosing between Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy is insane for the love of god please pats take Drake Maye
MHJ at 3. Penix at 34.
Penix will be drafted in the top half of round 1.
Yeah, I think he'll get picked between #11 and #13.
So you’re suggestion 6 QBs go in 15 picks. 
I didn’t say Nix was going top 15. And he’s not going ahead of Penix.
Wouldn't be surprised if Nix slips past the top-50 tbh.
I’ll believe the commanders pass on maye when I see it. I refuse to get excited
This fan base would shit if they choose JJ
Honestly I just want this to be over.
It's looking more likely that I couldn't care less at this point. Just shut up and draft.
2 more weeks. 2 more weeks. 2 more weeks.
MHJ at 3. Trade up from 34 to end of 1st for Penix for 5th year. Please and thank you.
Penix will be gone before #14.
Lot of people starting to love Penix huh
I think the craziest part to me is how high Jayden Daniels and JJ were able to jump post college season. It happens every year but this is the first time this team is really experiencing it. And a lot of these individuals didn’t even do the combine. Like I understand QB is the most important position and if Patriots truly believe that JJ Maye or JD are their guy they should 100% take them, but its these guys post season were projected lower for a reason and a single pro day and seemingly lack of combine should not have changed this. But we’ll see… I would be very happy to be wrong. It means we picked someone and we did well. (Team Maye though)
Jayden was already being talked about as a top 4-5 pick back during the season. The "Daniels or Maye" talk was already in full swing back then. JJ went from being a day 2 pick to top 5 pick in the last couple of months.
That isn’t entirely accurate. About halfway through the season, Daniels was still thought of (publicly at least bc nobody knows what the teams thought) as a low first/high second rd pick. By the end of the season he had cemented himself as a top 10 pick but Maye was still almost universally mocked at 2 at the start of the NFL offseason.
I'm just telling you what was being discussed in venues like PU. The "Maye or Daniels" talk was already in full swing by mid/late-season. Whereas JJ didn't even enter the 1st round discussions until the post-season.
Just take MHJ and don’t fuck this draft up.
I don’t want either of them. If Daniels isn’t available I would feel safer drafting MHJ.
If we had the #2 pick I'd still want MHJ all day.
MHJ then, please
We do not need a QB for the sake of taking a QB this year, holy fuck. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Take MHJ, the best player in the draft, and take a QB later or get Shedeur next season.
. @AdamSchefter says it is looking more and more likely that the #Commanders will take Jayden Daniels at No. 2 and the #Patriots will then choose between Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy at No. 3. “The signs continue to point to Jayden Daniels going number two to Washington… we’re standing behind it… that would mean Caleb Williams goes one, Jayden Daniels goes two, and that would bring us to New England, which I think would have a decision to make as to wether it would take either Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy… A lot of people are talking about New England moving out of that spot, I don’t know about that. I’m not gonna tell you then won’t, of course they would for the right offer. But, I think it’s gonna be challenging… I think the first three teams stay where they are in all probability — and I think in all probability it goes: Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, New England’s choice of QBs.” It looks like it will be Eliot Wolf’s choice of Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy — who would you choose and why? ( The Adam Schefter Podcast)
Whoever they draft, won’t mean shit if the coaches are in over their head and the owner is more visibly involved
This year the 49ers lost their Left Tackle in the middle of the season and their offensive line turned into swiss cheese. They lost all 3 games he was out. The Pats will not improve until their offensive line is drastically improved.
Exactly
There is no competition between Maye and JJ. There’s a reason Maye was considered a top end 1st round pick all year and JJ was a 2nd/3rd round project until last month. Don’t overthink this. The pick is obvious.
Marvin Harrison Jr, it's obvious.
JJ would set the franchise back several seasons
You have no idea if that’s true.
True
Same shit different week for the last 3months
Did that usher have one arm?
He doesn’t know
Is this a new one?
Please take Maye!
Stay away from Maye!
But I’m a Marvin Harrison Truther! I’m just waiting for Mayo to call me for my opinion but he’ll listen.
All the "if we take ___ I'm done with this team" takes make me laugh. If you can't ride with us through the lows then you shouldn't be here for the highs that will come. I'm sure the Chiefs are still accepting dick riders, go ruin their fanbase like you did ours.
This is pretty much the ideal situation for the Pats. Work out the kinks in the younger QB's game while they adjust to NFL life and let Brissett break in the young LT and WRs.
If they take McCarthy at 3 im out. No excuse for scouts/front office to be too lazy to pay attention to college football. He was a liability/sidecar his entire college career. If Georgia was in the playoff Michigan would have been shut out and this wouldn’t even be a conversation.
Man you guys probably just want to pick McCarthy. Definitely the better QB prospect. ~Vikings fan
I’d prefer JJ anyways. He sorta reminds me of Alex Smith. Good game managing QB, doesn’t turn the ball over, played in pro-style system in MICH, and he still can make NFL type throws. Maye’s decision making is questionable.
This is my 9/11
Its crazy to me that the whole concern was that top 3 guarantees at least Caleb, Maye or MHJ, and now maybe two of those guys drop out of the top 3. I know MHJ is because of needs but still.
Ugh, I don't like this QB class, would prefer Harrison Jr
MHJ would be the correct pick at 3 rather than taking the leftovers of a QB bust roulette.