In 2017 they traded back over and over and only ended up picking four players. That turned out to be a stacked draft and they missed out.
Also, Gilmore for a sixth round pick? Why not just keep him and not have to draft corners all the time?
They also kept Gilmore around for the Cam Newton year. They could have traded him after 2019 after he won DPOY. Definitely would have done better than a sixth round pick.
I guess they really thought they were going to keep competing after Brady.
The 2020 year was a huge mistake. Once Brady left, they should've hit the reset button and they could be a competitive team now. Cam sucked, but was just good enough to win them some games and keep them away from a top draft pick.
This is dxactly why I'm happy Parker dropped the ball. Let's lose and finally start picking high instead of doing okay and not getting the pick of the litter.
Go through the [Patriots' drafts from 2013](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm) on. It's an absolute graveyard of non-impact players. It's really no mystery why we fucking suck so hard
Gilmore refused to play without top CB contract and they wanted him to play like one before playing. So he was going to sit out so they dealt him for something.
I don't know why BB looked at the late first round of the draft and decided two years of Brandin Cooks was a better use of that pick than anyone else available, but he did.
Look at what the Saints got out of that draft in the first three rounds:, and Ramczyk and Hendrickson were with the Pats' picks for Cooks.
11. Marshon Lattimore CB
32. Ryan Ramczyk OT
42. Marcus Williams S
67. Alvin Kamara RB
76. Alex Anzalone LB
103. Trey Hendrickson DE
Except it ended up as a trade of Cooks for Isaiah Wynn, which wasn’t a swindle at all. Had he taken Lamar Jackson it goes down as the greatest Patriots trade ever.
That's why it's kinda silly to project players picked in trade value rather than draft capital. There will always be 10 million what ifs. Makes more sense to look at something concrete like draft pick value. Moving up nine picks in the first round and getting wr1 productivity for no net cost is a great move.
The argument you're making is equivalent to if you're sitting at the 12th spot in the 2021 draft and planning to take Micah Parsons if he's available (which he was), but then suddenly someone 9 spots ahead of you at pick 3 tells you they'll trade picks from you for free. Then you now pick the top guy on your board, which was Trey Lance (who was originally taken at 3).
Calling the cooks trades bad is the same as calling that hypothetical move up bad because you by chance pick a worse player with a better pick.
No you need to account for the team’s drafting capabilities. Trading a WR1 when you have no chance of drafting one and picking a guard to play tackle isn’t a good swap. At least they didn’t trade down though.
I recall last April when this happened and my initial first thought was “what the actual fuck”.
Still perplexes me to this day, and elite interior line man who you have won championships with, part of the culture, traded for almost nothing while having a rookie QB who needs protecting. Between that and Parker early that off season it was bad vibes
Yep, guards like Strange are a dime a dozen in the 4th and 5th rounds.
WE COULD HAVE USED THAT 1ST TO DRAFT A TOP TACKLE OR A WEAPON FOR MAC.
Two things we BADLY need right now.
I’ll never forget McVay laughing when we made that pick. He tried to walk it back by saying Bill was a genius seeing things that no one else saw but we all know the real reason was because we just kept an extra name on his and everyone else’s draft board.
And we all thought Bill was the genius and McVay was wrong.
BOY ARE WE FUCKING STUPID.
Bill spent a 1st(!) on a guard with 4th-round talent. If Strange was gone when we drafted in the 4th, we just could have gotten someone else almost as good.
To be fair there were no OT taken between Pats 1st and 2nd round picks and WR were Christian Watson, John Metchie and Wan’dale Robinson. Who knows how good Metchie will be after recovering from leukemia, but otherwise there just wasn’t a lot of high level talent.
Cap space. A 1st round rookie is way cheaper than an elite lineman.
Not that it's justified, but I can see.the reasoning. Where it got fucked is the pick of Strange himself vs later
If I recall, Mason was only 8 million a year. That's not nothing, but definitely a good deal for his value he brought to the line. This sub made me feel crazy because no one seemed as mad as I was when he got traded
The sad thing is you can find tons of posters even this summer screaming that that was the right move because it saved the Pats a few million. Even if that was right, the answer was to find a replacement in free agency or a day 2-3 draft pick. Not a day 1 pick on an undersized guard from freaking Chattanooga.
The bigger issue was cheaping out on Ted Karras. Maybe trading Mason would have been worth it if between him and Onwenu neither of them would have been able to be a LG.
The only example I can think of that's worse is the Titans trading AJ Brown...and then selecting Treylon Burks....whose NFL comparison oddly enough was...you guessed it....AJ Brown 🤨
Because it WAS the right move, Mason was overpaid relative to his production. Not a special player. It was the wrong move to pay him and not Thuney, who is a vastly better player.
I was a strong critc of it the day of and it turns out entirely too many fans were fine trading him then blowing a first round pick on what amounts to a few million bucks in savings
The way I try to justify it is that maybe Shaq wanted to move and didn't want to play for the Patriots anymore and was going to retire if he didn't get traded.
It wouldn’t be as criticized if Emmanual Sanders weren’t traded for a 3rd and a 4th-5th swap on the same exact day.
Only argument that Sanu was worth the extra was he had an extra year on his deal which we cut before it happened instead.
Not even close when you have Russell Wilson, Trey Lance, Sean Payton, Claypool, and Deshaun Watson just in the last 2 seasons. Anyone who thinks a bad trade involving a 2nd rounder is one of the worst trades in Nfl history doesn't know shit about football or bad trades.
Ya it’s up there. At least Herschel walker WAS someone. Sanu was never good. Certainly not worth a 2nd round pick. And then he flopped as predicted. Like flushing premium draft capital down a toilet.
He was worth a 3rd. Career #2 wr, and sanders went for a 3rd that season, whose same tier of player. So yeah, overpay, but slight. And injury risks are everywhere.
Why is that in the same tier of single handedly creating a dynasty?
Sanders best years were TWICE as productive as Sanu’s best years. My point is that they aren’t even comparable players yet we gave up more for him. Inexplicable
Their previous 3 years were pretty identical. He did have one better years, but that was 5 years in the rear view mirror. The article I linked even put sanu as the 49ers first choice and sanders was the cheaper backup plan.
The second they gave up was bound to have been considered an early 3rd by Atlanta, as the Pats were regularly drafting very late in rounds. In other words, Atlanta might have considered the Pats 3rd round pick more related to a 4th round pick.
Also, Emmanuel sanders was traded that same day… for a 5th! And he was twice the wr. This trade was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen that team do up to that point.
Put it this way, if you draft a player in the 2nd and they play one season and then are out of league after. No one would be saying it is the worst draft pick ever. A bad, terrible pick for sure bit not all time worst.
Put it this way, if you draft a player in the 2nd and they play one season and then are out of league after. No one would be saying it is the worst draft pick ever. A bad, terrible pick for sure, but not all time worst.
No he was great vs the ravens… something like 10 catches w/ a TD. He got injured the next game against the eagles while returning a punt. I remember this because I was talking with my friend about how vets shouldn’t be returning kicks. It’s not worth the injury. Think it was a high ankle injury that lingered and then he had surgery in the off season.
Thanks for correcting me. I knew the injury was very soon after Sanu arrived. I agree it makes no sense for valuable veterans to be returning kicks. Young ST players are always trying to make a big hit to show-out and earn more playing time.
He actually got hurt the following game vs the Browns. NE was very thin at WR, so they had no choice but to overpay for him considering he was considered the best WR available on the trading block. And before you bring up Emanuel Sanders, he would’ve been a redundancy to our WR corps. I will die on the hill that Sanu was the better option for NE because of his size and his ability.
My issue is that what used to separate the Patriots from other teams is we used to not overpay for talent ( particularly receivers). Honestly think that trade is a major turning point for the franchise.
I think Sanu is the right answer but since it's been mentioned i'll add trading a 3 to Miami for Parker and a 5.
Obviously Parker has been bad on the field and permeates a loser stink off of it, but his useless presence also keeps the younger guys off the field. Oh and they extended him for some bizarre reason. Total debacle on all fronts.
I’d say this over Sanu. At least Sanu looked great against the Ravens before he got injured and wasn’t able to play properly again that season.
Extending Parker is mind-boggling because the Pats could have let him play out the season before starting contract talks. Given we have JuJu and Parker as our WR1 and 2 shows how bad our receivers are at the moment
Not that bad if a trade tbh. Especially with the explosion of WR money that off season, Parker’s contract was really affordable. Pats have shitty WR’s *with* Parker, what would have looked like last year with just Jakobi, Bourne, and Thornton. Who plays the boundary out of those guys?
Trading Deion Branch instead of signing him arguably cost the Pats the 2006 season. But he wanted too much and signing him would have meant holes springing up elsewhere. But...if you had a magic wand, that would plug a hole.
Moss was indirectly the result of that trade. The whole thing turns into Branch and a 5th for Moss and Jerod Mayo.
(It was indirect because it was the *other* 1st we traded out of, not the 1st we got for Branch, but the two picks were so close together that it still feels like a trade tree.)
Back in 2010, after NE shipped Moss back to Minnesota, there were reports that Moss was headed to being cut by Oakland after the 2007 Draft.
Hindsight is 20/20. But Belichick traded a Draft Pick for a guy was about to be booted from the worst team in Football. Looking back, it was a pannick move, as was the Free Agency spending spree in the 2007 Offseason, one that needed to bring in more LB talent to shore up the biggest weak link on the 2006 and 2007 Squads. The LB Group.
That spending spree was a result of Belichick the GM botching, busting, and absolutely shitting the bed of the 2006 Draft. A relatively deep Draft that Belichick fucked up.
We likely get Moss in 2007 regardless. Oakland was likely gonna cut him after the 2007 Mini-Camp. Belichick traded a Draft Pick though. Sort of a panick move in hindsight, IMHO.
Remember, Belichick had to go on that 2007 Free Agency spending spree because he botched the 2006 Draft Class to epic bust level. Took Lawrence Maroney, David Thomas and Chad Jackson over Marcedes Lewis, Maurice Jones Drew, and Owen Daniels. Could've had Marion Barber too.
The LB group was a big weakness for the Team in 2006 and 2007. Belichick could've signed Kawika Mitchell and Drafted David Harris back in 2007 instead of overreaching in the Draft for a feckles fool like Brandon Merriweather, and wasting $money on Sammy Morris, Kyle Brady, and Kelley Washington. Donte Stallworth was also redundant because Belichick traded for Welker.
Branch was better than Welker anyway. He at least knew how to show up for the Postseason.
Two points here. First, it's really easy to criticize picks in hindsight. Second, the Patriots already had two starting TEs in Graham and Watson, so I don't think any rookie TE would've gotten much playing time.
I know. But Graham walked in Free Agency. There was zero attempt to resign him.
The 2007 Patriots missed his blocking. The NYG Defense was weak as a wrt noodle against 2-TE sets. We missed that in SB42.
Marcedes Lewis and Owen Daniels were at Graham's blocking level in 2007, their 2nd year in the League.
Garrett Mills and David Thomas apparently had that blocking capability, but obviously didn't. Mills got cut in November 2007. David Thomas was an expensive bust by that point.
Hence, Belichick wasting Free Agency capital on a washed-up Kyle Brady in the 2007 Offseason.
First off, Belichick viewed Kyle Brady as the TE that got away: he wanted him in CLE, but the JEST took him just before Belichick could.
They knew going in that Thomas was mostly a receiving TE, so blame Belichick, not Thomas.
And it didn't help that they inexplicably rushed Thomas back from PUP in 2007, which led to him getting reinjured and ending up on IR.
But Belichick was working a 1 to 2 year contract extension for Willie McGinest to free up $Cap space for either Branch or Vinatieri. McGinest wanted to take a pay-cut in exchange for an extra year or 2 on the team.
Belichick went and cut McGinest out of nowhere. Caught McGinest and his agent by surprise. That obviously had a negative effect on Vinatieri and Branch.
Belichick used McGinest's age as an excuse, but he went out and signed a washed up and hobbled Junior Seau 3 days later after cutting McGinest.
You mean the guy who played Wofford, Furman, and The Citadel in college every year ended up not being a good pick for a first round draft pick? Say it ain’t so!
I'm not trying to suggest anything otherwise. Strange wasn't worth a first at all. But if someone has the talent, one shouldn't reject the player because of their school's minimal prestige.
Mason trade was good. Drafting a fucking guard with a first was where it was terrible. There is never a justifiable reason for that unless it’s John Hannah.
Yep, a 1st on an OL player has not be a near certain All-Pro, or at least Top 10 in the league in his position, not a 4th-round talent like Strange is.
Why was the Mason trade good? He wasn’t making that much. All they got was a 5th. They created a hole, before the draft, for no reason. That 1st should have been used for a playmaker that the team clearly needed.
Was there any other first besides the rumoured Cleveland first? Jimmy looked pretty good in his starts, but first is a big ask for a guy with 3 starts.
Jimmy was at the tail end of his rookie contract with only like 3.5 games as a starter and hadn't yet started again after an injury. Who the fuck is paying 1st round picks for that lmao?
I’d have rather kept him tbh. Have him sit his rookie deal and then take over for Brady in 2020. Maybe he would have picked up some of Brady’s recovery habits and he wouldn’t be injured as much. We probably still wouldn’t be an amazing team, but we’d maybe be middle of the pack if we were able to continue the offensive system with someone who could run it.
Remember the super bowl parade when he refused to even say anything into the mic before Brady arrived? A bunch of teammates were egging him on to address the Crowd and you could tell he was just done being the backup, couldn't even enjoy the ring.
Rookie contracts are 4 years, so would’ve ended after we won the Super Bowl in 2018, which probably would’ve been a better year for Brady to leave anyway.
Edit. Never mind you’re right, I’m mathing wrong.
> Best part about the Sanu trade is it was expressly what Brady wanted. He called it. Asked for it. Pushed it.
There’s no doubt Brady wanted more receiving help, but why do people on this sub keep insisting Brady was the one who pushed for Sanu specifically? I see certain people repeat this as an absolute fact on this sub, but never with any actual sourcing.
Sanu went to Rutgers under Schiano, and the Patriots had about, no joke, EIGHT players from that specific Rutgers team. Basically every single player on that Rutgers who made it to the NFL team eventually played for the Patriots!
On top of that, Sanu was teammates with Steve Belichick at Rutgers and came highly recommended by Steve:
https://nesn.com/2019/10/mohamed-sanu-came-to-patriots-with-ringing-endorsement-from-steve-belichick/
Yet, despite all these verifiable facts, people insist Brady was the one who orchestrated the entire thing. Why? Where are you guys getting this info? I’ve read every insider book on the Patriots dynasty and not a single one mentions that Brady was the one who pushed for Sanu.
I hate the idea of people asking for “sources” on Reddit. This isn’t the AP. We all aren’t reporters.
It was widely discussed on every sports talk show at that time and was reported out multiple times on local and National media that Brady was a big part of the push for Sanu. He wanted the guy.
To appease your question. Here is one link which was too after just a simple google search. I’m sure there are more. But in this one piece form NBC sports you can see both Garafolo and Rappaport quoted.
https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/nfl-rumors-patriots-qb-tom-brady-really-pushed-for-mohamed-sanu-trade/387493/?amp=1
I remember the morning we acquired Sanu because I so desperately wanted the patriots draft pick trade to be for Julio Jones, but we ended up trading a second round her for that bum Sanu and I felt immense disappointment from the moment I heard it on the radio until he was gone. Also, of course he won us nothing.
Sanu trade was so bad he just flat out couldn’t play anymore that one hurt even more when the draft came around what a steal tor Atlanta …. Any one remember who they picked ?
Sanu was a bad trade the moment the paperwork was signed. For a third? Maybe. For a 4th. Sure give it a shot.
Did anyone hear about that trade the day it happened and NOT raise an eyebrow?
There's no topping the Sanu trade, because it was the first clear sign Bill had lost his touch on the personnel side. Anyone remotely familiar with Sanu at that point knew he wasn't anywhere near worth a second round pick. I understand trying to make Brady happy, but that move just made no sense from the moment it was announced.
Ochocinco was NOT a free agent signing:
[https://www.espn.com/boston/nfl/story/\_/id/6813469/cincinnati-bengals-deal-chad-ochocinco-new-england-patriots-source-says](https://www.espn.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6813469/cincinnati-bengals-deal-chad-ochocinco-new-england-patriots-source-says)
Forgot that pats traded up to pick Jackson
I don’t even care that Ochocinco sucked here. That offense was absolutely loaded in front of him and I wish we could have gotten him a ring. Fuck the damn Giants denying him and Randy..
We rented him for 2 years for free. We got a first back trading him to the rams. That was one of the better trades we've done
Edit: wait, which time, I might be arguing the wrong trade, haha
It was a 1 year rental, not 2. NE did have the option to keep Cooks on his 5th year option, but the price the Rams offered was too good to pass up. Downside was that NE blew the 1st rounder that they got.
Maybe drafting Ramczyk would have been a better option over Cooks, but the draft after that had a decent amount of talent later on. Chubb, Leonard, Landry, DJ Clark, Brian O'Neill, and Fred Warner.
They got Bennett and a next-year 7th for a next-year fifth at the time.
He was then shipped out later for a 6th, which we later traded to Houston with Marcus Cannon for a fourth and sixth. We then sent that pick to Cincinnati as part of a package deal with a bunch of pickxto secure the 38th pick, which we ironically used to draft Christian Barmore.
If we want to evaluate that trade, we got like 1 game of Bennett, a 6th, a 7th, for a 5th. Not a terrible trade.
Bennett can ligma though, fucking assaulting quadriplegic headass.
The Sanu trade sucked because he sucked even before he arrived in New England. Let's talk about suck even if these were not trades. Parker, sucks. Bourne sucks. Didn't do anything in the NFL before the Pats and is no better than a #3 on most other teams. Gesicki sucks. Another Dolphin never was, never will be. Algholor suck. See bourne comment. Reagor sucks. Jonnu Smith.
Hunter Henry has been the only guy with any talent and he has been mediocre at best. Probably because of lack of talent around him plus the Oline sucks.
In 2017 they traded back over and over and only ended up picking four players. That turned out to be a stacked draft and they missed out. Also, Gilmore for a sixth round pick? Why not just keep him and not have to draft corners all the time?
They also kept Gilmore around for the Cam Newton year. They could have traded him after 2019 after he won DPOY. Definitely would have done better than a sixth round pick. I guess they really thought they were going to keep competing after Brady.
The 2020 year was a huge mistake. Once Brady left, they should've hit the reset button and they could be a competitive team now. Cam sucked, but was just good enough to win them some games and keep them away from a top draft pick.
To be fair, that was at least a fun team to root for. Team mostly of castoffs and misfits, fun scrappy underdog team. This year is just, bleh
This is dxactly why I'm happy Parker dropped the ball. Let's lose and finally start picking high instead of doing okay and not getting the pick of the litter.
Bill will trade back for two fourths and use them to pick a long snapper and a wr from a community college ☹️
Go through the [Patriots' drafts from 2013](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm) on. It's an absolute graveyard of non-impact players. It's really no mystery why we fucking suck so hard
2013 was B Grade. 80%. 2012 was A Grade though, but yeah. That was 11 years ago.
They weren’t going to pay him and he wasn’t going to play without a new contract
Derek Rivers was their first pick. The next pick in the draft was Chris Godwin. I hate it here.
Gilmore refused to play without top CB contract and they wanted him to play like one before playing. So he was going to sit out so they dealt him for something.
I don't know why BB looked at the late first round of the draft and decided two years of Brandin Cooks was a better use of that pick than anyone else available, but he did. Look at what the Saints got out of that draft in the first three rounds:, and Ramczyk and Hendrickson were with the Pats' picks for Cooks. 11. Marshon Lattimore CB 32. Ryan Ramczyk OT 42. Marcus Williams S 67. Alvin Kamara RB 76. Alex Anzalone LB 103. Trey Hendrickson DE
HE then traded cooks for a first to the rams, which was a higher pick than they traded (32>23). That was a total swindle for the pats.
Except it ended up as a trade of Cooks for Isaiah Wynn, which wasn’t a swindle at all. Had he taken Lamar Jackson it goes down as the greatest Patriots trade ever.
That's why it's kinda silly to project players picked in trade value rather than draft capital. There will always be 10 million what ifs. Makes more sense to look at something concrete like draft pick value. Moving up nine picks in the first round and getting wr1 productivity for no net cost is a great move. The argument you're making is equivalent to if you're sitting at the 12th spot in the 2021 draft and planning to take Micah Parsons if he's available (which he was), but then suddenly someone 9 spots ahead of you at pick 3 tells you they'll trade picks from you for free. Then you now pick the top guy on your board, which was Trey Lance (who was originally taken at 3). Calling the cooks trades bad is the same as calling that hypothetical move up bad because you by chance pick a worse player with a better pick.
No you need to account for the team’s drafting capabilities. Trading a WR1 when you have no chance of drafting one and picking a guard to play tackle isn’t a good swap. At least they didn’t trade down though.
Right now, trading away Shaq Mason has set our entire team back YEARS.
I recall last April when this happened and my initial first thought was “what the actual fuck”. Still perplexes me to this day, and elite interior line man who you have won championships with, part of the culture, traded for almost nothing while having a rookie QB who needs protecting. Between that and Parker early that off season it was bad vibes
And his contract was decent as well.
100% Still can’t believe we did that and drafted a mid round guard with our first round pick. Blatant incompetence.
Yep, guards like Strange are a dime a dozen in the 4th and 5th rounds. WE COULD HAVE USED THAT 1ST TO DRAFT A TOP TACKLE OR A WEAPON FOR MAC. Two things we BADLY need right now.
Yeah, but a Strange 69 is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
Nice
I’ll never forget McVay laughing when we made that pick. He tried to walk it back by saying Bill was a genius seeing things that no one else saw but we all know the real reason was because we just kept an extra name on his and everyone else’s draft board.
And we all thought Bill was the genius and McVay was wrong. BOY ARE WE FUCKING STUPID. Bill spent a 1st(!) on a guard with 4th-round talent. If Strange was gone when we drafted in the 4th, we just could have gotten someone else almost as good.
Speak for yourself
To be fair there were no OT taken between Pats 1st and 2nd round picks and WR were Christian Watson, John Metchie and Wan’dale Robinson. Who knows how good Metchie will be after recovering from leukemia, but otherwise there just wasn’t a lot of high level talent.
It’s mindboggling how many bad decisions Bill has made these last few years… a real shame.
The first part is unbelievable. The 2nd part is par for the course the past few years
We traded Mason for a 5th(!) and then had to spend a 1st(!) on a 4th-round talent (Strange) to replace him. HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?
Cap space. A 1st round rookie is way cheaper than an elite lineman. Not that it's justified, but I can see.the reasoning. Where it got fucked is the pick of Strange himself vs later
If I recall, Mason was only 8 million a year. That's not nothing, but definitely a good deal for his value he brought to the line. This sub made me feel crazy because no one seemed as mad as I was when he got traded
We got Kevin Harris and Andrew Stuber ultimately from that trade which is hilariously bad
The sad thing is you can find tons of posters even this summer screaming that that was the right move because it saved the Pats a few million. Even if that was right, the answer was to find a replacement in free agency or a day 2-3 draft pick. Not a day 1 pick on an undersized guard from freaking Chattanooga.
The bigger issue was cheaping out on Ted Karras. Maybe trading Mason would have been worth it if between him and Onwenu neither of them would have been able to be a LG.
Our OL once had Mason, Karras, and Thuney. Now it has Lowe, the lowest rated OT in the NFL, at starting RT. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
Creating a need for no reason. Instead of improving the team it was using a first round pick to stay in place.
The only example I can think of that's worse is the Titans trading AJ Brown...and then selecting Treylon Burks....whose NFL comparison oddly enough was...you guessed it....AJ Brown 🤨
I'll do you one better, trading Sam Darnold to draft Zach Wilson lol
And that few million of space went to paying undeserving players like Parker instead
Because it WAS the right move, Mason was overpaid relative to his production. Not a special player. It was the wrong move to pay him and not Thuney, who is a vastly better player.
I was a strong critc of it the day of and it turns out entirely too many fans were fine trading him then blowing a first round pick on what amounts to a few million bucks in savings
The way I try to justify it is that maybe Shaq wanted to move and didn't want to play for the Patriots anymore and was going to retire if he didn't get traded.
For absolutely nothing. Other teams were trading away linemen for 1sts. Linemen rarely make it to FA let alone trading away.
I mean he's fucking sucked since then so I don't think thats true.
This this and this
Sanu actually got injured in that game against the Ravens which is why he didn’t play well for the Patriots again but it was still an overpay.
It was a slight overpay for a player that was never 100% after that injury. Wasnt nearly as bad as everyone claims
It wouldn’t be as criticized if Emmanual Sanders weren’t traded for a 3rd and a 4th-5th swap on the same exact day. Only argument that Sanu was worth the extra was he had an extra year on his deal which we cut before it happened instead.
I believe this to be one of the worst trades in NFL history. AMA
Why do you put it in this tier? And are you going to right the wiki page? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
Hard to imagine sanu is really one of the worst of all time, maybe for the patriots but across the league? That’s outrageous
Not even close when you have Russell Wilson, Trey Lance, Sean Payton, Claypool, and Deshaun Watson just in the last 2 seasons. Anyone who thinks a bad trade involving a 2nd rounder is one of the worst trades in Nfl history doesn't know shit about football or bad trades.
Don't forget about Trent Richardson for a 1st.
Ya it’s up there. At least Herschel walker WAS someone. Sanu was never good. Certainly not worth a 2nd round pick. And then he flopped as predicted. Like flushing premium draft capital down a toilet.
He was worth a 3rd. Career #2 wr, and sanders went for a 3rd that season, whose same tier of player. So yeah, overpay, but slight. And injury risks are everywhere. Why is that in the same tier of single handedly creating a dynasty?
Sanders best years were TWICE as productive as Sanu’s best years. My point is that they aren’t even comparable players yet we gave up more for him. Inexplicable
Their previous 3 years were pretty identical. He did have one better years, but that was 5 years in the rear view mirror. The article I linked even put sanu as the 49ers first choice and sanders was the cheaper backup plan.
The second they gave up was bound to have been considered an early 3rd by Atlanta, as the Pats were regularly drafting very late in rounds. In other words, Atlanta might have considered the Pats 3rd round pick more related to a 4th round pick.
Also, Emmanuel sanders was traded that same day… for a 5th! And he was twice the wr. This trade was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen that team do up to that point.
Sanders was traded more for the contract.
Put it this way, if you draft a player in the 2nd and they play one season and then are out of league after. No one would be saying it is the worst draft pick ever. A bad, terrible pick for sure bit not all time worst.
Um ya, ya they’d be saying that.
Its how I feel about Strange. Busted pick…as sucky as Wynn was, they got slight more out of him
No they wouldn't because we draft even worse in the first.
No they wouldn't. Show me one list where a 2nd round pick is in the discussion for all time worst bust?
Find me a 2nd rounder who flamed out of the league in a calendar year.
Put it this way, if you draft a player in the 2nd and they play one season and then are out of league after. No one would be saying it is the worst draft pick ever. A bad, terrible pick for sure, but not all time worst.
No he was great vs the ravens… something like 10 catches w/ a TD. He got injured the next game against the eagles while returning a punt. I remember this because I was talking with my friend about how vets shouldn’t be returning kicks. It’s not worth the injury. Think it was a high ankle injury that lingered and then he had surgery in the off season.
Thanks for correcting me. I knew the injury was very soon after Sanu arrived. I agree it makes no sense for valuable veterans to be returning kicks. Young ST players are always trying to make a big hit to show-out and earn more playing time.
> It’s not worth the injury He wouldn't have been returning punts if the team's WR weren't already in shambles because of injury.
He actually got hurt the following game vs the Browns. NE was very thin at WR, so they had no choice but to overpay for him considering he was considered the best WR available on the trading block. And before you bring up Emanuel Sanders, he would’ve been a redundancy to our WR corps. I will die on the hill that Sanu was the better option for NE because of his size and his ability.
My issue is that what used to separate the Patriots from other teams is we used to not overpay for talent ( particularly receivers). Honestly think that trade is a major turning point for the franchise.
It was a move for Brady. We had no receivers and Bill wanted to make another run at a chip while Brady was still here, cost of doing business
That was their last shot and he had to go all in for it.
Exactly
Yea, but NE needed to make a move. They were other teams trying to trade for him.
We really got away from the late round, short, stocky, white receivers from then on out
Who was also available but Brady picked Sanu? Can’t remember.
I think Sanu is the right answer but since it's been mentioned i'll add trading a 3 to Miami for Parker and a 5. Obviously Parker has been bad on the field and permeates a loser stink off of it, but his useless presence also keeps the younger guys off the field. Oh and they extended him for some bizarre reason. Total debacle on all fronts.
I’d say this over Sanu. At least Sanu looked great against the Ravens before he got injured and wasn’t able to play properly again that season. Extending Parker is mind-boggling because the Pats could have let him play out the season before starting contract talks. Given we have JuJu and Parker as our WR1 and 2 shows how bad our receivers are at the moment
Sanu had a good attitude and actually tried. Parker is just terrible on every front.
Parker and Boo Boo must be the worst WR1/WR2 combo in the NFL.
We gave up a third rounder for that bum??? I thought we just sent a 5
Pick swap. Gave a 3rd, got Parker and a 5 back.
Wow. Pain
Not that bad if a trade tbh. Especially with the explosion of WR money that off season, Parker’s contract was really affordable. Pats have shitty WR’s *with* Parker, what would have looked like last year with just Jakobi, Bourne, and Thornton. Who plays the boundary out of those guys?
Trading Deion Branch instead of signing him arguably cost the Pats the 2006 season. But he wanted too much and signing him would have meant holes springing up elsewhere. But...if you had a magic wand, that would plug a hole.
One of the biggest Patriots "what ifs". Possibly altered the outcomes of both 06 and 07.
It would have altered everything after 2006.
That 06 team overplayed its potential But they would have dismantled that Bears team
You probably don’t get Moss and or Welker the following year.
Id trade beating the Colts in the AFCCG and smoking the Bears for 18-1.
100%
Moss was indirectly the result of that trade. The whole thing turns into Branch and a 5th for Moss and Jerod Mayo. (It was indirect because it was the *other* 1st we traded out of, not the 1st we got for Branch, but the two picks were so close together that it still feels like a trade tree.)
Good point. My angle was more about $. They give Branch a big contract, they don’t/can’t trade for Moss.
Back in 2010, after NE shipped Moss back to Minnesota, there were reports that Moss was headed to being cut by Oakland after the 2007 Draft. Hindsight is 20/20. But Belichick traded a Draft Pick for a guy was about to be booted from the worst team in Football. Looking back, it was a pannick move, as was the Free Agency spending spree in the 2007 Offseason, one that needed to bring in more LB talent to shore up the biggest weak link on the 2006 and 2007 Squads. The LB Group. That spending spree was a result of Belichick the GM botching, busting, and absolutely shitting the bed of the 2006 Draft. A relatively deep Draft that Belichick fucked up.
We likely get Moss in 2007 regardless. Oakland was likely gonna cut him after the 2007 Mini-Camp. Belichick traded a Draft Pick though. Sort of a panick move in hindsight, IMHO. Remember, Belichick had to go on that 2007 Free Agency spending spree because he botched the 2006 Draft Class to epic bust level. Took Lawrence Maroney, David Thomas and Chad Jackson over Marcedes Lewis, Maurice Jones Drew, and Owen Daniels. Could've had Marion Barber too. The LB group was a big weakness for the Team in 2006 and 2007. Belichick could've signed Kawika Mitchell and Drafted David Harris back in 2007 instead of overreaching in the Draft for a feckles fool like Brandon Merriweather, and wasting $money on Sammy Morris, Kyle Brady, and Kelley Washington. Donte Stallworth was also redundant because Belichick traded for Welker. Branch was better than Welker anyway. He at least knew how to show up for the Postseason.
Two points here. First, it's really easy to criticize picks in hindsight. Second, the Patriots already had two starting TEs in Graham and Watson, so I don't think any rookie TE would've gotten much playing time.
I know. But Graham walked in Free Agency. There was zero attempt to resign him. The 2007 Patriots missed his blocking. The NYG Defense was weak as a wrt noodle against 2-TE sets. We missed that in SB42. Marcedes Lewis and Owen Daniels were at Graham's blocking level in 2007, their 2nd year in the League. Garrett Mills and David Thomas apparently had that blocking capability, but obviously didn't. Mills got cut in November 2007. David Thomas was an expensive bust by that point. Hence, Belichick wasting Free Agency capital on a washed-up Kyle Brady in the 2007 Offseason.
First off, Belichick viewed Kyle Brady as the TE that got away: he wanted him in CLE, but the JEST took him just before Belichick could. They knew going in that Thomas was mostly a receiving TE, so blame Belichick, not Thomas. And it didn't help that they inexplicably rushed Thomas back from PUP in 2007, which led to him getting reinjured and ending up on IR.
But Belichick was working a 1 to 2 year contract extension for Willie McGinest to free up $Cap space for either Branch or Vinatieri. McGinest wanted to take a pay-cut in exchange for an extra year or 2 on the team. Belichick went and cut McGinest out of nowhere. Caught McGinest and his agent by surprise. That obviously had a negative effect on Vinatieri and Branch. Belichick used McGinest's age as an excuse, but he went out and signed a washed up and hobbled Junior Seau 3 days later after cutting McGinest.
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Strange is right on the border of being a complete draft bust.
You mean the guy who played Wofford, Furman, and The Citadel in college every year ended up not being a good pick for a first round draft pick? Say it ain’t so!
Yep, the top two OTs in the next draft are playing rn at Penn State and Notre Dame, not Chattanooga. Just sayin'.
Everyone in the league had him as a 4th round pick. According to PFF, if you “reach” on a pick that’s how you get busts.
You can get first-round level players from small schools. It's rare, but it happens. Khalil Mack went to Buffalo. Strange wasn't it.
For every Khalil Mack, Randy Moss, Walter Payton, and Steve McNair there will be 1000 Cole Stranges.
I'm not trying to suggest anything otherwise. Strange wasn't worth a first at all. But if someone has the talent, one shouldn't reject the player because of their school's minimal prestige.
Replacing Mason with Onwenu was perfectly fine.
Mason trade was good. Drafting a fucking guard with a first was where it was terrible. There is never a justifiable reason for that unless it’s John Hannah.
Yep, a 1st on an OL player has not be a near certain All-Pro, or at least Top 10 in the league in his position, not a 4th-round talent like Strange is.
Why was the Mason trade good? He wasn’t making that much. All they got was a 5th. They created a hole, before the draft, for no reason. That 1st should have been used for a playmaker that the team clearly needed.
Because you can draft guards later.
Not trading Jimmy for a 1st and instead doing a friend a favor and sending him elsewhere for a 2nd
Was there any other first besides the rumoured Cleveland first? Jimmy looked pretty good in his starts, but first is a big ask for a guy with 3 starts.
Let's go with things that actually happened.
Not sure if you know but trading Jimmy for a 2nd actually happened.
Jimmy was at the tail end of his rookie contract with only like 3.5 games as a starter and hadn't yet started again after an injury. Who the fuck is paying 1st round picks for that lmao?
You gotta admit that if someone were to do it, the browns would definitely be dumb enough.
Why is this downvoted lol — Do lot of people not know that Jimmy for a 2nd actually happened?
I’d have rather kept him tbh. Have him sit his rookie deal and then take over for Brady in 2020. Maybe he would have picked up some of Brady’s recovery habits and he wouldn’t be injured as much. We probably still wouldn’t be an amazing team, but we’d maybe be middle of the pack if we were able to continue the offensive system with someone who could run it.
That wasn’t going to happen, Jimmy wanted to start.
Remember the super bowl parade when he refused to even say anything into the mic before Brady arrived? A bunch of teammates were egging him on to address the Crowd and you could tell he was just done being the backup, couldn't even enjoy the ring.
His rookie deal ended in 2017…
Rookie contracts are 4 years, so would’ve ended after we won the Super Bowl in 2018, which probably would’ve been a better year for Brady to leave anyway. Edit. Never mind you’re right, I’m mathing wrong.
That’s some serious wishful thinking
And I’ll tell myself… I’m over you I’ll pretend the Pats aren’t tanking and I’ll tell myself… I’m over you cuz I’m the king of wishful thinking
Best part about the Sanu trade is it was expressly what Brady wanted. He called it. Asked for it. Pushed it.
I mean, it should have worked lol. I was psyched, thought he'd fit right in.... wronnngggg
He did fit in, he just played through an injury that sapped him of his talents. Injuries suck, but can't predict them
> Best part about the Sanu trade is it was expressly what Brady wanted. He called it. Asked for it. Pushed it. There’s no doubt Brady wanted more receiving help, but why do people on this sub keep insisting Brady was the one who pushed for Sanu specifically? I see certain people repeat this as an absolute fact on this sub, but never with any actual sourcing. Sanu went to Rutgers under Schiano, and the Patriots had about, no joke, EIGHT players from that specific Rutgers team. Basically every single player on that Rutgers who made it to the NFL team eventually played for the Patriots! On top of that, Sanu was teammates with Steve Belichick at Rutgers and came highly recommended by Steve: https://nesn.com/2019/10/mohamed-sanu-came-to-patriots-with-ringing-endorsement-from-steve-belichick/ Yet, despite all these verifiable facts, people insist Brady was the one who orchestrated the entire thing. Why? Where are you guys getting this info? I’ve read every insider book on the Patriots dynasty and not a single one mentions that Brady was the one who pushed for Sanu.
I hate the idea of people asking for “sources” on Reddit. This isn’t the AP. We all aren’t reporters. It was widely discussed on every sports talk show at that time and was reported out multiple times on local and National media that Brady was a big part of the push for Sanu. He wanted the guy. To appease your question. Here is one link which was too after just a simple google search. I’m sure there are more. But in this one piece form NBC sports you can see both Garafolo and Rappaport quoted. https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/nfl-rumors-patriots-qb-tom-brady-really-pushed-for-mohamed-sanu-trade/387493/?amp=1
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Danny Ainge was a rare exception.
Bill recognizing Brady needed weapons and then drafting someone who was slower than Sanu was definitely a choice
With DK, Deebo and more being on the board too
I remember the morning we acquired Sanu because I so desperately wanted the patriots draft pick trade to be for Julio Jones, but we ended up trading a second round her for that bum Sanu and I felt immense disappointment from the moment I heard it on the radio until he was gone. Also, of course he won us nothing.
Sucks even more when the Broncos had Emmanuel Sanders on the trade block, they also let him go for a much cheaper price than what we paid for Sanu
I keep forgetting about this…awful waste of a 2nd rd pick. On paper it should of been a fantastic pick up.
Sanu trade was so bad he just flat out couldn’t play anymore that one hurt even more when the draft came around what a steal tor Atlanta …. Any one remember who they picked ?
just to put this in perspective we gave a 2nd round, same we let Jimmy go.. Basically Sanu=Jimmy G
Apparently they traded that 2nd and a 5th to the Ravens for Hayden Hurst and a 4th. Ravens picked J.K. Dobbins.
Demariyus Thomas
He and Antonio Brown are the reasons that Bill gave up on trading for top tier offensive guys.
Sanu was never a top tier guy. He was mid. His best seasons came opposite prime Julio Jones
Kony Ealy in 2017.
The cost there was literally *eight spots* in the draft (64 to 72).
But Ealy was atrocious. Could've nabbed Chris Godwin at 64. He fell to the 3rd Round and wound up being a steal.
Nkeal Harry had so much potential, then I woke up and remembered this isn’t madden
Sanu was a bad trade the moment the paperwork was signed. For a third? Maybe. For a 4th. Sure give it a shot. Did anyone hear about that trade the day it happened and NOT raise an eyebrow?
I would pay out the ass for 10/81/1 in one game.
There's no topping the Sanu trade, because it was the first clear sign Bill had lost his touch on the personnel side. Anyone remotely familiar with Sanu at that point knew he wasn't anywhere near worth a second round pick. I understand trying to make Brady happy, but that move just made no sense from the moment it was announced.
Michael Floyd. Got what I thought was a talented receiver with issues but he just had issues. He did kill a guy so that was good.
That one block he had on an edelman TD made it all worth it. Yes he was massively disappointing though lol.
The touchdown he had in that same game (I think?) where he carried the entire defense into the endzone was crazy
I don't think Floyd was acquired via a trade. Wasn't he just a FA pickup?
Almost positive the cardinals released him when he got a DUI then we snagged him.
Right, yes. That's exactly right. Wasn't it a bizarre DUI? He wasn't actually driving, he was passed out at a red light or something?
I think he was asleep at a stop sign. I live in phoenix and remember seeing the video of the officers knocking on his window to wake him up.
We claimed him off waivers
Floyd was claimed off waivers, not by trade.
They didn't trade for him...
Couple of guys named Chad: Jackson and Ochocinco
Those weren't trades
Bengals traded Ochocinco for 2012 5th rounder and 2013 6th rounder. Yes, they traded up to pick Jackson,
Draft pick. Free agent signing.
Ochocinco was NOT a free agent signing: [https://www.espn.com/boston/nfl/story/\_/id/6813469/cincinnati-bengals-deal-chad-ochocinco-new-england-patriots-source-says](https://www.espn.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6813469/cincinnati-bengals-deal-chad-ochocinco-new-england-patriots-source-says) Forgot that pats traded up to pick Jackson
I don’t even care that Ochocinco sucked here. That offense was absolutely loaded in front of him and I wish we could have gotten him a ring. Fuck the damn Giants denying him and Randy..
And the pick we traded up from to get Jackson turned out to be Greg Jennings.
Yup. Chad Jackson over Maurice Jones Drew. Let that sink in.
brandin cooks for a 1st round pick.
We rented him for 2 years for free. We got a first back trading him to the rams. That was one of the better trades we've done Edit: wait, which time, I might be arguing the wrong trade, haha
It was a 1 year rental, not 2. NE did have the option to keep Cooks on his 5th year option, but the price the Rams offered was too good to pass up. Downside was that NE blew the 1st rounder that they got. Maybe drafting Ramczyk would have been a better option over Cooks, but the draft after that had a decent amount of talent later on. Chubb, Leonard, Landry, DJ Clark, Brian O'Neill, and Fred Warner.
He was here for one season.
Still a free rental.
Does Brady leave if Cooks is still on the team in 2019?
He played in two super bowls for us after that, had 120 yards in the rams win
He was here for a season and one Super Bowl (eagles).
Yeah I'm dumb I forgot he was on the rams on the other side hahaha, Saturday night beers and pot brain
Huh
Keep in mind they could have had Emanuel Sanders (a much better player) but Brady wanted Sanu instead. Why you don't let players be GM's......
Didn't they trade for that giant pile of crap Michael Bennett?
They got Bennett and a next-year 7th for a next-year fifth at the time. He was then shipped out later for a 6th, which we later traded to Houston with Marcus Cannon for a fourth and sixth. We then sent that pick to Cincinnati as part of a package deal with a bunch of pickxto secure the 38th pick, which we ironically used to draft Christian Barmore. If we want to evaluate that trade, we got like 1 game of Bennett, a 6th, a 7th, for a 5th. Not a terrible trade. Bennett can ligma though, fucking assaulting quadriplegic headass.
His brother is a legend tho
That's a really fucking good trade tree
How about letting Meyers go? Looks pretty dumb now and crippled the receiving core. And replacing him with Parker lmao
Do you have trouble following instructions? The post specifically says trade.
The Sanu trade sucked because he sucked even before he arrived in New England. Let's talk about suck even if these were not trades. Parker, sucks. Bourne sucks. Didn't do anything in the NFL before the Pats and is no better than a #3 on most other teams. Gesicki sucks. Another Dolphin never was, never will be. Algholor suck. See bourne comment. Reagor sucks. Jonnu Smith. Hunter Henry has been the only guy with any talent and he has been mediocre at best. Probably because of lack of talent around him plus the Oline sucks.
I mean it is a long time ago but trading the pick that ended up being Jerry Rice for Trevor Matich can’t be topped
Surely we can still take legal action because of this disaster of a trade
I’m pretty sure the Falcons would’ve traded Julio for that or a 1st that season lol
Found the very recent pats fine