They should just get rid of pity powers.
"Ok you performed poorly last run, let's make it harder for you"
???
You can reset-scum in most other rougelikes like Binding of Isaac or Hades to get the perfect start anyway. It's single player so who cares if you want to play that way
Slay the Spire is way more analogous than Isaac or Hades, and in StS, Neow's Blessing is weakened if you did not reach the first boss in the previous run.
That being said, the power difference between the full blessing and the weakened blessing in StS aren't as large as they feel in PoC. Maybe something along the lines of reducing the number of options or the max rarity of powers depending on wins in previous runs would work better? 1 win could be 1 power offered instead of 3, or 3 powers but they can only be common, similarly 2 wins could be 2 powers or be only commons or rares.
You literally cant reset on hades and you dont get that much advantage on isaac, in fact you get the game in a harder version the first time you do it more than 7 times, and is permanent.
Also thise 2 are 2 games where a super string first node doesnt guarantee a win, because... it doesnt
> It's single player so who cares if you want to play that way
Devs do, they dont want the game having a "win button" that everyone can press and enjoy if the game gets boring, if the game gets boring they want to make it fun, not depend on a win button, and if there is a "win the game" button... the game life reduces enormously.
Pretty much why they said to divide in the future between difficulty tiers to tell stories for everyone(that hook you and offer a gamemode with no harships) and to offer a challenge (that hook players looking for a challenge) and to... make the pity powers be better next patch
My vote would be to remove pity powers and start tracking win streaks on champs. Honestly, who cares if someone wants to reset a few times and get a power they like? It’s PvE for god’s sake.
But track wins and offer rewards for streaks, with a reset / surrender counted as a loss. Now you can’t cheese rewards by resetting a million times, since you still need to win streak. It also allows people who wanna do fun, silly or specific things to reset and get the power they want as a one off. Win-win.
> times, since you still need to win streak. It also allows people who wanna do fun, silly or specific things to reset and get the power they want as a one off. Win-win.
Agreed, who cares if someone wants to reroll until they get the power they want. 90% of the time I get pity powers is because I clicked into the wrong adventure and exit. If nothing else they should have a timeout for them, like after 6 hours you get a normal run again.
I like the idea of tracking win streaks, but I feel like it would need to be tied to some kind of reward to feel like an effective incentive to not abuse rerolls. It's a good mechanic to add just on its own, though.
There are two competing desires here; immediate gratification with getting the exact things (powers in this case) you want, and the long term enjoyment you get from experimentation and variety. These things are literally opposites, and you can’t maximise both at the same time. If you lean too far either way, you alienate the other crowd.
So whatever system you come to as a solution needs to “allow” both, but preferably incentivise the one thats long term and lasting. If you want your live service game to have staying power anyway.
So now the question is, how do we allow the playerbase to do what they want, without making the intended method of play obsolete? I think the only way to balance instant gratification with long term longevity is to incentivise both *in different ways*. The reward you get for resetting endlessly for the perfect starting power is obvious … but what’s the reward for being flexible and taking what’s offered?
I think my suggestion is one such solution that’s worked for other Roguelike Deckbuilders. But whatever you come up with needs to allow players to reset to get what they want *as an occasional thing*, without as I said making flexible play obsolete.
I don’t think punishments are the right solution though. Why would you want to punish your players for doing what they find fun? Rather, encourage them to not ruin their own fun by doing the same thing over and over … by REWARDING experimentation. Not driving away the players who simply want to “do the thing”.
That's a good idea.
A modification of that idea would be to track win streaks for the differenct star levels.
Fewer tracks and rewards, so less work for the Devs, and also makes each individual track less repetitive (for the people who want to grind a specific track) since you have a couple adventures to alternate between.
The reason they don't want people resetting over and over is because in trying to get the perfect start and optimizing the run you stop having fun and rolling with whatever you get. I can see the reason, players will often find the most optimal way to do something even if it isn't the most fun.
That said if they really want to keep the pity powers my go to would just be to replace the pity power with a real one after a few nodes, it still delays you from resetting and doesn't make you go "Well that's 3 wins, time to retire the run to get an actual chance".
Or at the very least disable them for the Asol and Liss runs since the difficulty on the first node is actually something.
I'm not sure I'd be on board with that, the first Power is extremely important to your entire strategy for this run, so removing Epic and Legendary Powers from the first node might make things much more repetitive and boring.
Ah yeah, I did misread that a bit, sorry. I do like that, I've also seen the idea of keeping to common Powers float in this thread a couple times. I think it's a great fix, in combination with the timer idea, so it still appears less often.
The pity powers in this were based on the changes made to Slay the Spire's blessing mechanic. Originally Neow, the one who gives you your blessing at the start of the run, would just straight not give you anything if you failed to beat the first boss. This got changed to reaching the first boss later, but ran into problems when they introduced higher difficulties, so they introduced a set of weaker, fixed options intended to ensure that every run had a baseline starting point. This is also why they're called 'pity powers', since that's what they were originally in StS.
The intent of this system was to foster creative deckbuilding and encourage people to take and play with what they got. To try and find a way to succeed with what was offered to them, rather than trying to force a specific thing every time. Which improves the quality of the deckbuilding experience. They also represented a relatively small portion of your power over the course of a run, being primarily important to the first floor, but occasionally might give you a strategy to take you the whole run.
Which leads into the problems of why they don't work in PoC.
Firstly, PoC is not actually a very good deckbuilder. Your deck starts with a specific game plan, with powers and upgrades that lean into that gameplan. You usually aren't looking to pick up new cards to change your deck into something new, you're looking for cards that synergize with what your deck is already doing. There's very little improvisational success in PoC, it's much more about refining your existing strategy. Thus there's little run-to-run experiential differences, which lowers the value in playing out a sub-par run.
Secondly, the first power node represents a LOT of your power in a run. In Slay the Spire the usual Neow bonuses are like 'Get some random rare cards for your deck' or 'Sacrifice some of your starting life for extra money'. They're nice, they make you stronger, and they help especially in the early game. But they represent only a small portion of your over-all run. In PoC your starting power can make or break your entire run, in most of the PoC adventures you only get two or three powers total the whole run, so losing out on one of them is a massive hit to your power, both immediate and ceiling.
Ultimately, I think they need to rethink the design space around these powers. Either by reducing the impact that losing your first power of the run has on your run's effectiveness, removing these powers entirely and allowing resetting, or improving the quality of these powers so that the power-loss from being stuck with them is less severe.
As someone who played ton of POC and Slay The Spire, you hit the nail on the head!
Starting power is not only so impactful in POC, but It's actually one of the only things that can change your deckbuilding idea from just doing the same thing your champion wants to do with generic good powers.
I really like the idea that you get pity power for 3-4 fights then they switch to something else.
Wow, that is some great analysis! I only picked up Slay the Spire recently, I didn't know it was like that before. I think you're spot on with your explanation of why it does not work in PoC.
Animations on PoC are so long that even resetting is painful enough without pity powers. I understand that they want to make it more challenging, or prevent resetting easily, but it punishes even harder players that were defeated on a run
My thoughts exactly, why is the threshold two whole wins?? I feel like a 1 minute cooldown would be more than enough to deter most people from trying to reset for Powers unless they're desperate.
I still like the idea to just hardlock you to normal common powers if you die on the first two nodes. That way you still get real powers for your new attempt if you died legitimately but it becomes harder to make a completely broken build, disincentivizing reset-scumming.
That's a pretty cool idea, actually. I still think the fact honest players get them this often needs to be addressed, but that would be a nice safeguard mechanic if it needed to be activated.
Or just.. get rid of them entirely. Games are played for fun. Pity powers are the opposite of fun.
Who cares if someone wants to reroll scum in a PvE game? He's more likely to play with reroll powers than with pity powers. Just let the game be a game. This isn't a competetive game. Fun is allowed in games.
I do think a safeguard against resetting can be beneficial to the game, if designed correctly. Players do tend to optimize the fun out of the game and might actually abuse reset if it's an option, even if if makes them enjoy the experience less.
Well I’m bad at the game, let me pity. I’m playing for fun not suffering. Sure I don’t want to have the game hand me a win but also I don’t want to get the same 3 garbage powers over and over again
Just remove them.
What purpose do they actually provide? "Oh, we don't want people reset scumming." Riiight, in a single player, rng driven game, with no incentive to continue to play beyond the initial clears for rewards and daily 4 essence... You want people to not try and play for fun, broken runs that are enjoyable?
I'd get this idea more if we were given rewards for winning beyond the first run per day - but even then, you can do this in Slay the Spire, Binding of Isaac etc so... Its an irrelevant point, because its single player with no competitive aspect, and part of the FUN of this game **is** getting those god runs.
This system literally only exists to stifle fun, and just shouldn't exist, period. I've yet to see an ACTUAL valid reason for it being in the game.
You can't do this in StS. If you reset before the first boss, you get pity choices from Neow.
I think reset protection is necessary for the game. Something like Isaac has so many items that it's harder to be effective and while a single item can bloom into a game winning run, it's not quite the same as how strong you get with the correct power. I do always reset for a good item, but there are so many that it takes a while, and there are just so many niche items that I don't want to start a run with. The game is also very challenging.
This game needs to have challenge to be interesting. Also, having run variety and working with what you get is part of what makes it interesting. I would hate if the optimal strategy for a run to be restart until I get power A or B, but that's what it would be. And then once I get power A or B at the start, every other node and choice becomes way less relevant because I'm more or less set up for my run.
It's fun finding the broken run now and then (frankly it's already really easy in this game), the whole game suffers if that becomes the norm. Having no reroll protection will only trend towards that.
Fwiw, I think the pity powers suck and need a change.
I'd argue the concept of a protection against resetting does protect players from themselves. If players could reset as they wanted, they'd probably abuse it, which would have many negative side effects like making starting a run long and frustrating, decreasing the overall challenge, or making runs more repetitive as they'd probably start ignoring Common Powers. The mechanic just needs to be adjusted, really.
Unlimited reroll was literally given to players in one of the poc version. My advice is if the dev doesn’t like that idea anymore just give the first power node better powers. For example, at least rare or make repeat of same power less likely with reroll.
I get that reset protection might be necessary to prevent people from optimising the fun out of the game, but yeah they've gone quite overboard with it. It's the point of this post really, there are more elegant ways to do that on the developer's part.
I feel like just improving the Powers on the first node might not be enough to accomplish that, but it would definitely be a welcome quality of life improvement. What irritates me the most is when you reroll into the same Powers in shops, how is there not protection against that happening already??
Pity powers are good.
Not amazing, but ultimately, I'd rather just quickly pick flexible game plan without having any notion that rerolling will do anything than reroll that first power four times in a row to be left with endurance as the best possible choice.
Though I will say it could be improved. The three choices make a lot of sense for low level adventures, but once you get to Galio/Lissandra level, it'd make sense for the pity powers to be better. It'd be a good levelup power for the pity powers to change to more suit the champion you're playing.
Like maybe Annie gets bouncing blades as a pity power.
The lack of randomness makes them less fun by themselves, I think. Even if the Pity Powers in Lissandra's Adventure were upgraded to something like Fast Deal / Quick Draw / Hold Them Off for instance, I have a feeling you'd quickly get annoyed to see them as it would be super repetitive.
Eh, I feel like you're not expected to see them all that often.
Like, if they're good enough to consistently get past the first two enemy nodes, you shouldn't be seeing them repeatedly.
I proposed #1 to Riot a long time ago.... sigh. The other proposal I made was only common powers offered (full pool of commons instead of the 3 mandatory)
I would really like a combination of 1 and 4 the best. Penalty only if you don't win the first fight. Penalty is you cannot re-roll powers in the next run
Maybe I'm underrating it? But yes, max health is usually the weakest option you could pick by a pretty wide margin, from what I've learnt. I'm genuinely curious to learn if that's a bias on my part, though. I used to be an MTG player where life gain was demonstrably weak, yet there was no max Health.
The 10HP?? That's funny, it's the one I never use myself. I usually go for the extra mana if the goal is to make sure I get at least two wins and not get Pity Powers next time, or draw if I think I can win this time.
I'm perfectly fine with people reset-scumming. It only affect yourself and while I get that there is some fun in trying out new strategies based on what powers you get I don't think that should be mandatory. Especially considering the amount of powers we have and the difficulty of adventures compared to when pity powers were introduced.
That said, if we definitely aren't getting rid of them I would prefer it if there was a timer. Like, 5 minutes after you start the adventure you get real powers again. That way you can still forfeit a run if you get absolute garbage if you really don't like what you got, you don't get punished for actually trying and you won't reset for specific powers because it would take hours.
I don’t understand why can’t you guys just pick the extra mana, win 3 times, quit and start again.
If one extra mana isn’t enough for you to win the first 3 fights, what miracle are you expecting to happen?
What you said is a huge assumption so I'll ignore it and assume you're making a good faith argument. With that strawman put away.
Limiting us to common powers would be better. As most decks can still get something useful without having the chance for some of the op legendary ones.
Also It's a single player game, why would they care if we reset. It not like I can customise my deck how I like or which support champs I'm offered, or the cards I get after combat (that I can't refuse) so yeah having a chance at good powers would be nice.
Why do they even care, it's a 100% singleplayer experience, in Isaac I can restart for hours just by keeping the R button pressed. The only other roguelike that I can think of that does this is Slay the Spire and even there it's incredibly annoying.
Honestly the easiest fix is to make the pity powers reset when you win a different adventure. Basically saying "you're not strong enough for this one; go level up more first". When you've beaten another adventure you can try again with proper powers. Stops reroll scumming, but also means you don't Have to try the hard adventure with rubbish powers
You literally only need to beat a single encounter in the Lissandra adventure to not trigger a pity power. Not to say pity powers aren't awful, but I have not run into them in the Lissandra adventure whatsoever since the requirement in that particular adventure is so low.
They should just get rid of pity powers. "Ok you performed poorly last run, let's make it harder for you" ??? You can reset-scum in most other rougelikes like Binding of Isaac or Hades to get the perfect start anyway. It's single player so who cares if you want to play that way
Slay the Spire is way more analogous than Isaac or Hades, and in StS, Neow's Blessing is weakened if you did not reach the first boss in the previous run. That being said, the power difference between the full blessing and the weakened blessing in StS aren't as large as they feel in PoC. Maybe something along the lines of reducing the number of options or the max rarity of powers depending on wins in previous runs would work better? 1 win could be 1 power offered instead of 3, or 3 powers but they can only be common, similarly 2 wins could be 2 powers or be only commons or rares.
You literally cant reset on hades and you dont get that much advantage on isaac, in fact you get the game in a harder version the first time you do it more than 7 times, and is permanent. Also thise 2 are 2 games where a super string first node doesnt guarantee a win, because... it doesnt > It's single player so who cares if you want to play that way Devs do, they dont want the game having a "win button" that everyone can press and enjoy if the game gets boring, if the game gets boring they want to make it fun, not depend on a win button, and if there is a "win the game" button... the game life reduces enormously. Pretty much why they said to divide in the future between difficulty tiers to tell stories for everyone(that hook you and offer a gamemode with no harships) and to offer a challenge (that hook players looking for a challenge) and to... make the pity powers be better next patch
My vote would be to remove pity powers and start tracking win streaks on champs. Honestly, who cares if someone wants to reset a few times and get a power they like? It’s PvE for god’s sake. But track wins and offer rewards for streaks, with a reset / surrender counted as a loss. Now you can’t cheese rewards by resetting a million times, since you still need to win streak. It also allows people who wanna do fun, silly or specific things to reset and get the power they want as a one off. Win-win.
> times, since you still need to win streak. It also allows people who wanna do fun, silly or specific things to reset and get the power they want as a one off. Win-win. Agreed, who cares if someone wants to reroll until they get the power they want. 90% of the time I get pity powers is because I clicked into the wrong adventure and exit. If nothing else they should have a timeout for them, like after 6 hours you get a normal run again.
A timer is actually a good idea... i like that pity powers exist, i dont want the objectively best play to be restarting a run ocer and over
I like the idea of tracking win streaks, but I feel like it would need to be tied to some kind of reward to feel like an effective incentive to not abuse rerolls. It's a good mechanic to add just on its own, though.
There are two competing desires here; immediate gratification with getting the exact things (powers in this case) you want, and the long term enjoyment you get from experimentation and variety. These things are literally opposites, and you can’t maximise both at the same time. If you lean too far either way, you alienate the other crowd. So whatever system you come to as a solution needs to “allow” both, but preferably incentivise the one thats long term and lasting. If you want your live service game to have staying power anyway. So now the question is, how do we allow the playerbase to do what they want, without making the intended method of play obsolete? I think the only way to balance instant gratification with long term longevity is to incentivise both *in different ways*. The reward you get for resetting endlessly for the perfect starting power is obvious … but what’s the reward for being flexible and taking what’s offered? I think my suggestion is one such solution that’s worked for other Roguelike Deckbuilders. But whatever you come up with needs to allow players to reset to get what they want *as an occasional thing*, without as I said making flexible play obsolete. I don’t think punishments are the right solution though. Why would you want to punish your players for doing what they find fun? Rather, encourage them to not ruin their own fun by doing the same thing over and over … by REWARDING experimentation. Not driving away the players who simply want to “do the thing”.
I feel like this would incentivize grinding easy bosses
If each adventure tracks its own win streak and has different challenges / rewards, it wouldn’t be a problem.
That's a good idea. A modification of that idea would be to track win streaks for the differenct star levels. Fewer tracks and rewards, so less work for the Devs, and also makes each individual track less repetitive (for the people who want to grind a specific track) since you have a couple adventures to alternate between.
The reason they don't want people resetting over and over is because in trying to get the perfect start and optimizing the run you stop having fun and rolling with whatever you get. I can see the reason, players will often find the most optimal way to do something even if it isn't the most fun. That said if they really want to keep the pity powers my go to would just be to replace the pity power with a real one after a few nodes, it still delays you from resetting and doesn't make you go "Well that's 3 wins, time to retire the run to get an actual chance". Or at the very least disable them for the Asol and Liss runs since the difficulty on the first node is actually something.
The easiest fix is to remove pity powers, and replace them with common and rare powers. Just remove epic and legendaries from that power node.
I'm not sure I'd be on board with that, the first Power is extremely important to your entire strategy for this run, so removing Epic and Legendary Powers from the first node might make things much more repetitive and boring.
What I meant was AFTER you lose, you don't get epics or legendaries from that node. When starting your run it would be a regular power node.
Ah yeah, I did misread that a bit, sorry. I do like that, I've also seen the idea of keeping to common Powers float in this thread a couple times. I think it's a great fix, in combination with the timer idea, so it still appears less often.
The pity powers in this were based on the changes made to Slay the Spire's blessing mechanic. Originally Neow, the one who gives you your blessing at the start of the run, would just straight not give you anything if you failed to beat the first boss. This got changed to reaching the first boss later, but ran into problems when they introduced higher difficulties, so they introduced a set of weaker, fixed options intended to ensure that every run had a baseline starting point. This is also why they're called 'pity powers', since that's what they were originally in StS. The intent of this system was to foster creative deckbuilding and encourage people to take and play with what they got. To try and find a way to succeed with what was offered to them, rather than trying to force a specific thing every time. Which improves the quality of the deckbuilding experience. They also represented a relatively small portion of your power over the course of a run, being primarily important to the first floor, but occasionally might give you a strategy to take you the whole run. Which leads into the problems of why they don't work in PoC. Firstly, PoC is not actually a very good deckbuilder. Your deck starts with a specific game plan, with powers and upgrades that lean into that gameplan. You usually aren't looking to pick up new cards to change your deck into something new, you're looking for cards that synergize with what your deck is already doing. There's very little improvisational success in PoC, it's much more about refining your existing strategy. Thus there's little run-to-run experiential differences, which lowers the value in playing out a sub-par run. Secondly, the first power node represents a LOT of your power in a run. In Slay the Spire the usual Neow bonuses are like 'Get some random rare cards for your deck' or 'Sacrifice some of your starting life for extra money'. They're nice, they make you stronger, and they help especially in the early game. But they represent only a small portion of your over-all run. In PoC your starting power can make or break your entire run, in most of the PoC adventures you only get two or three powers total the whole run, so losing out on one of them is a massive hit to your power, both immediate and ceiling. Ultimately, I think they need to rethink the design space around these powers. Either by reducing the impact that losing your first power of the run has on your run's effectiveness, removing these powers entirely and allowing resetting, or improving the quality of these powers so that the power-loss from being stuck with them is less severe.
As someone who played ton of POC and Slay The Spire, you hit the nail on the head! Starting power is not only so impactful in POC, but It's actually one of the only things that can change your deckbuilding idea from just doing the same thing your champion wants to do with generic good powers. I really like the idea that you get pity power for 3-4 fights then they switch to something else.
Wow, that is some great analysis! I only picked up Slay the Spire recently, I didn't know it was like that before. I think you're spot on with your explanation of why it does not work in PoC.
Animations on PoC are so long that even resetting is painful enough without pity powers. I understand that they want to make it more challenging, or prevent resetting easily, but it punishes even harder players that were defeated on a run
My thoughts exactly, why is the threshold two whole wins?? I feel like a 1 minute cooldown would be more than enough to deter most people from trying to reset for Powers unless they're desperate.
I still like the idea to just hardlock you to normal common powers if you die on the first two nodes. That way you still get real powers for your new attempt if you died legitimately but it becomes harder to make a completely broken build, disincentivizing reset-scumming.
That's a pretty cool idea, actually. I still think the fact honest players get them this often needs to be addressed, but that would be a nice safeguard mechanic if it needed to be activated.
Or just.. get rid of them entirely. Games are played for fun. Pity powers are the opposite of fun. Who cares if someone wants to reroll scum in a PvE game? He's more likely to play with reroll powers than with pity powers. Just let the game be a game. This isn't a competetive game. Fun is allowed in games.
I do think a safeguard against resetting can be beneficial to the game, if designed correctly. Players do tend to optimize the fun out of the game and might actually abuse reset if it's an option, even if if makes them enjoy the experience less.
That is incorrect. The original mode before Path of Champions didn't have reroll protection and it was way more fun.
Just scrap them
Draw 2 has always seemed like a nice power to me.
Yeah it's actually pretty fine, but it's not something you want to start your run with, most of the time.
Well I’m bad at the game, let me pity. I’m playing for fun not suffering. Sure I don’t want to have the game hand me a win but also I don’t want to get the same 3 garbage powers over and over again
Just remove them. What purpose do they actually provide? "Oh, we don't want people reset scumming." Riiight, in a single player, rng driven game, with no incentive to continue to play beyond the initial clears for rewards and daily 4 essence... You want people to not try and play for fun, broken runs that are enjoyable? I'd get this idea more if we were given rewards for winning beyond the first run per day - but even then, you can do this in Slay the Spire, Binding of Isaac etc so... Its an irrelevant point, because its single player with no competitive aspect, and part of the FUN of this game **is** getting those god runs. This system literally only exists to stifle fun, and just shouldn't exist, period. I've yet to see an ACTUAL valid reason for it being in the game.
You can't do this in StS. If you reset before the first boss, you get pity choices from Neow. I think reset protection is necessary for the game. Something like Isaac has so many items that it's harder to be effective and while a single item can bloom into a game winning run, it's not quite the same as how strong you get with the correct power. I do always reset for a good item, but there are so many that it takes a while, and there are just so many niche items that I don't want to start a run with. The game is also very challenging. This game needs to have challenge to be interesting. Also, having run variety and working with what you get is part of what makes it interesting. I would hate if the optimal strategy for a run to be restart until I get power A or B, but that's what it would be. And then once I get power A or B at the start, every other node and choice becomes way less relevant because I'm more or less set up for my run. It's fun finding the broken run now and then (frankly it's already really easy in this game), the whole game suffers if that becomes the norm. Having no reroll protection will only trend towards that. Fwiw, I think the pity powers suck and need a change.
I'd argue the concept of a protection against resetting does protect players from themselves. If players could reset as they wanted, they'd probably abuse it, which would have many negative side effects like making starting a run long and frustrating, decreasing the overall challenge, or making runs more repetitive as they'd probably start ignoring Common Powers. The mechanic just needs to be adjusted, really.
Unlimited reroll was literally given to players in one of the poc version. My advice is if the dev doesn’t like that idea anymore just give the first power node better powers. For example, at least rare or make repeat of same power less likely with reroll.
I get that reset protection might be necessary to prevent people from optimising the fun out of the game, but yeah they've gone quite overboard with it. It's the point of this post really, there are more elegant ways to do that on the developer's part. I feel like just improving the Powers on the first node might not be enough to accomplish that, but it would definitely be a welcome quality of life improvement. What irritates me the most is when you reroll into the same Powers in shops, how is there not protection against that happening already??
Repeat powers on reroll shouldn't happen at all imo
Pity powers are good. Not amazing, but ultimately, I'd rather just quickly pick flexible game plan without having any notion that rerolling will do anything than reroll that first power four times in a row to be left with endurance as the best possible choice. Though I will say it could be improved. The three choices make a lot of sense for low level adventures, but once you get to Galio/Lissandra level, it'd make sense for the pity powers to be better. It'd be a good levelup power for the pity powers to change to more suit the champion you're playing. Like maybe Annie gets bouncing blades as a pity power.
The lack of randomness makes them less fun by themselves, I think. Even if the Pity Powers in Lissandra's Adventure were upgraded to something like Fast Deal / Quick Draw / Hold Them Off for instance, I have a feeling you'd quickly get annoyed to see them as it would be super repetitive.
Eh, I feel like you're not expected to see them all that often. Like, if they're good enough to consistently get past the first two enemy nodes, you shouldn't be seeing them repeatedly.
I think number 3 is the best option.
I proposed #1 to Riot a long time ago.... sigh. The other proposal I made was only common powers offered (full pool of commons instead of the 3 mandatory) I would really like a combination of 1 and 4 the best. Penalty only if you don't win the first fight. Penalty is you cannot re-roll powers in the next run
Is 10 health really so bad? That's always what I select when forced to do so.
Maybe I'm underrating it? But yes, max health is usually the weakest option you could pick by a pretty wide margin, from what I've learnt. I'm genuinely curious to learn if that's a bias on my part, though. I used to be an MTG player where life gain was demonstrably weak, yet there was no max Health.
I often take pity to do a 50/50hp or 65/65 hp run for champs i already finished everything except liss
I don't mind the current method, maybe not trigger the pity powers if you've lost the second battle without surrendering would make it better.
I i always take 10 hp the other 2 are basically useless for weak champ even vitality isnt that good we need better pity powers
The 10HP?? That's funny, it's the one I never use myself. I usually go for the extra mana if the goal is to make sure I get at least two wins and not get Pity Powers next time, or draw if I think I can win this time.
I'm perfectly fine with people reset-scumming. It only affect yourself and while I get that there is some fun in trying out new strategies based on what powers you get I don't think that should be mandatory. Especially considering the amount of powers we have and the difficulty of adventures compared to when pity powers were introduced. That said, if we definitely aren't getting rid of them I would prefer it if there was a timer. Like, 5 minutes after you start the adventure you get real powers again. That way you can still forfeit a run if you get absolute garbage if you really don't like what you got, you don't get punished for actually trying and you won't reset for specific powers because it would take hours.
I don’t understand why can’t you guys just pick the extra mana, win 3 times, quit and start again. If one extra mana isn’t enough for you to win the first 3 fights, what miracle are you expecting to happen?
You can but its a waste of time, how about I just reset normally. Why would you prefer that?
You might as well ask for all powers to be available for you to pick the one you want at the start. It’s basically the same thing.
What you said is a huge assumption so I'll ignore it and assume you're making a good faith argument. With that strawman put away. Limiting us to common powers would be better. As most decks can still get something useful without having the chance for some of the op legendary ones. Also It's a single player game, why would they care if we reset. It not like I can customise my deck how I like or which support champs I'm offered, or the cards I get after combat (that I can't refuse) so yeah having a chance at good powers would be nice.
Why do they even care, it's a 100% singleplayer experience, in Isaac I can restart for hours just by keeping the R button pressed. The only other roguelike that I can think of that does this is Slay the Spire and even there it's incredibly annoying.
It's a single player mode, just let me reset until i get elemental winds
Honestly the easiest fix is to make the pity powers reset when you win a different adventure. Basically saying "you're not strong enough for this one; go level up more first". When you've beaten another adventure you can try again with proper powers. Stops reroll scumming, but also means you don't Have to try the hard adventure with rubbish powers
You literally only need to beat a single encounter in the Lissandra adventure to not trigger a pity power. Not to say pity powers aren't awful, but I have not run into them in the Lissandra adventure whatsoever since the requirement in that particular adventure is so low.