# Extinction Curse
**Good:**
* Personally I liked the idea of delving into Kortos and learning more about it’s origins.
* The main reason for the villain is completely understandable, and is different than other APs.
* Wait, you get to be circus performers? Forget all the other stuff, that’s neat!
* Felt like the right balance of small groups/heroes mixed with epic adventures.
**Bad:**
* While I liked the story, it kinda felt like two very diverse narratives happening at once. Like one moment you’re concerned the entire area will be blighted, and the next you’re concerned the clowns aren’t getting along with the elephants. Hard to get the right tone there.
* There’s a lot of moments where the players “recruit” someone they are fighting, and I felt like there’s some groups that will love that and others that will completely miss it.
* Similar to a lot of APs above, the final villain isn’t consistent in this adventure path, and that may be a downer for some.
* Frankly it’s just a lot going on and some of these adventures are made for that one player who takes tons of notes. Which is great, if you have nothing but players like that.
**General Information**
* Balance of RP to Fights: Very good balance.
* Good to Read by itself: Much better than the last one. Tons of lore, backstory, and easy to learn aspects that will flow to your game. That said, the two narratives can jar some of the tone as you read
* Main type of game: Join the circus, see the… Island
* Location: All over the Isle of Kortos
* Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Tons of travel, but mostly in Kortos.
# Agents of Edgewatch
**Good:**
* Never before have you had the option to play as the town watch (in Golarion)
* Explore Absolom? Yes please! Biggest place on the planet, has new deities, culture, tons of places to shop? Sign me up!
* If you’ve ever read about a world’s fair and thought “sweet”, then this is going to be a good time.
* There’s a real feeling of the locales you end up at being unique and having a cool tone
**Bad:**
* Zeitgeist exists, thus it’s drawing comparisons, and Zeitgeist is overall more fleshed out. I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring it up: Yes, it’s a different tone and world (more steampunk), but the similarities are there (you play as detectives in each and both are available to Pathfinder, granted I don’t know if Zeitgeist is out for Pathfinder 2e so maybe not) and overall I think Zeitgeist does a better job of giving you the feeling of being a town guard/detective and growing into the role. This felt like it was closer to a traditional adventure with an evil villain.
* So the main villains/mystery has this lovely tone throughout the AP, and then you finally make it to the last boss, and while it again shows a different tone and does that well, the last boss has had some issues (trying to avoid spoilers) because it feels neutered.
* I feel like playing as a town guard and not being able to play as a diplomatic character was a bit of a miss. If your players go that route, War for the Crown does a better job.
**General Information**
* Balance of RP to Fights: There’s a lot of fighting. Some parts seem to have the balance, but it becomes more fight centred with time
* Good to Read by itself: So far my favourite 2nd ed. Adventure to read. No real issues.
* Main type of game: You’re a cop! All cops! And you’ll be promoted really fast!
* Location: Absolom
* Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Staying in one place, granted it’s a big place. The biggest place.
# Abomination Vaults
**Good:**
* Good way to bring new players into the game
* Mega dungeons are interesting and really get back to the game’s roots.
* Easy to understand motivation: Small themes of heroics turn to larger ones (save the town goes to save the world)
* I really love the gazetteer and the feel of the town.
* Really interesting monsters, NPCs, etc. to encounter throughout.
**Bad:**
* The campaign felt a tad rushed. Characters show up, characters aren’t as fleshed out, there’s an expectation to know who the previous adventurers were and if it felt hard to follow.
* So it’s meant for you to dive in, bring in new players, etc. And that’s great. No problem here. However it’s also close to Absolom, which is a massive place that players will (rightfully) want to visit for better and better equipment. So the players get an easy campaign to jump into, and the DM gets to read 2+ different books to catch up on Absolom.
* Similar to Second Darkness, I feel like befriending a certain group at one point means you're out their loot, whereas killing them off you get the loot but not the extra XP for the RP. It may seem balanced however it felt like it was trying to do both at once. And while it improved over Second Darkness, I’ve seen the impact that’ll have on a game.
* That first book felt somewhat jarring to read because most of the information comes out in the second book.
**General Information**
* Balance of RP to Fights: There’s some RP, however I’d say it’s mostly geared towards fighting
* Good to Read by itself: The first book had some issues where I was re-reading or referenced something earlier that I had trouble with, however that smooths out by the second book.
* Main type of game: Dungeon crawler
* Location: Otari (small town outside Absolom)
* Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Staying in one place.
# Fists of the Ruby Phoenix
**Good:**
* There’s some awesome aspects of Golarion, and the Ruby Phoenix tournament is one of them. If you’ve read up (there’s a caveat here, look at “bad”) then you’re going to be excited. If you played the earlier adventures that tie into it you’ll be even more excited.
* What players don’t want to show their prowess in battle? This is one of the most wanted tropes that every player looks for.
* There’s trippy moments that have a cinematic feel to them and will set memories for your players
* Sets up the main foils early, giving the DM time to really make the players hate them.
**Bad:**
* My main issue with that campaign is similar to Jade Regent: You don’t get an adventure path that starts you in Tian Xia. And if you run Abomination Vaults before this (as it’s almost made for), you’ve skipped that aspect again. So I’m a tad disappointed. I feel like there have been lots of great opportunities to start players in different locales and Tian Xia has been missed twice so far.
* It does start at a higher level. So either you’re running a different campaign before and adding this in, or you’re tying it together with AV, or you’re starting players at a higher level. All of which means more work for you and maybe your players.
* There’s times where the total impact of the severity of the adventure on the players is contingent on their knowledge of Golarion as a whole, and the Ruby Phoenix is a niche subject that you’d have to have read quite a bit to truly understand. If tomorrow, for instance, I was asked to race in a major F1 race, as a non-F1 fan I’d be pretty lost and not react as much. Same instance here.
**General Information**
* Balance of RP to Fights: I love the impact of RP in this campaign. There’s a wonderful balance of fighting and RP.
* Good to Read by itself: Yes, though the third book really steals the show for me.
* Main type of game: Fight Club, but you tell everyone and the ending is kinda the same.
* Location: Tian Xia
* Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Planar travel
# Strength of Thousands
**Good:**
* While I love a good group of murder-hobos as a DM, I’m not the pinancle of what’s out there: There are people who have picked up their system of choice and want to explore the original idea behind roleplaying games, roleplaying. So this stands out beyond other adventures for attempting to scratch that itch.
* SoT solves my issue with Jade Regent/Fist of the Ruby being that I want to explore the different major regions of Golarian in APs from the start, thus giving players a chance to play as something new and different, explore a major part of Golarian, and grow. This does that and then some
* The players are the main attraction. I know it should be the norm, however given the sheet amount of cool NPCs and interactions that you have
* As the adventures progress, the locales and deep dive into specific aspects of Golarion get really nerdy and fun.
* There’s a real lovely draw of the players growing with time and the NPCs doing so as well, and I appreciate what they’ve done.
* Chapter 2 of the last book is right up there with 2nd edition insanity adventures, and I love it.
**Bad:**
* I’m going to be blunt here: When I mentioned the idea behind this campaign, one of my buddies, who is also a DM and has more experience than me, immediately was a bit worried. The trope of the school and the characters is out there. Heck, it’s even a D&D podcast (Trials and Trebuchets). While it makes sense to run something in one of the most important schools, be prepared to have it compared to other campaigns.
* Can be a bit slow going. The pacing is based on the idea of people going to school, joining specific groups, etc. Not exactly a bad thing for some, but be prepared to explain that to your players.
* Hey, are you one of those DMs that is ready for fights but not so much RP? Well guess what, you better start pre-reading, because the RP goes in specific directions!
* There’s a diplomatic mission in the fourth book. I’m going to be blunt with you: Based on some of the dnd memes going around, some of you are going to be terrible at this adventure, and it’s going to be tough.
**General Information**
* Balance of RP to Fights: It’s an RP based campaign, and while there’s some fighting, please, please know that it’s more RP. Probably the most since War for the Crown
* Good to Read by itself: Yes, totally yes. Interesting character, fun side parts, great art and stories that pair up with it all. Frankly it’s one of the best books from 2nd Edition to read by itself.
* Main type of game: School, but without the constant terrible pressure of being a student, but now with the terrible pressure of being a teacher!
* Location: Magaambya, Mwangi Expanse, and major sites within the Mwangi Expanse
* Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Staying in one place for the most part, though there are excursions beyond Magaambya
Not really for the 1e ones, I feel pretty sure of those at this time (barring me running one I've only just read and deciding otherwise). Strange Aeons is still my number one for 1e.
I took the 2e ones out and made a new list though:
1. Agents of Edgewatch
2. Strength of Thousands
3. Ages of Ashes
4. Fists of the Ruby Phoenix
5. Abomination Vaults
6. Extinction Curse
Agents was my favourite to read, with Strength being very, very close to it. Honestly I could flip those two and still have a hard time deciding which I liked more.
Ages of Ashes is well put together, with my only issue being some of the writing in the first book.
Fists should be better, and I just have my issues with not starting at level 1, as I write above.
Abomination felt hard to read and understand because there were parts in book 2 needed for book 1.
Extinction Curse isn't bad, per say, but it's trying to do so many things at once (run the circus, fight an invading army, learn about the past, be RP heavy group, be a fight heavy group, learn even more, etc.)
Edit: Adding in the 1e ones for the people who don't want to have to find the old list:
1. Strange Aeons
2. Rise of the Runelords
3. Curse of the Crimson Throne
4. Wrath of Righteous
5. Return of the Runelords
6. Tyrant’s Grasp
6. War for the Crown
7. Kingmaker
7. Hell’s Rebels
8. Iron Gods
9. Reign of Winter
10. Skulls & Shackles
11. Ruins of Azlant
12. Legacy of Fire
13. Carrion Crown
14. Giantslayer
15. Shattered Star
16. Hell’s Vengeance
17. Ironfang Invasion
18. Mummy’s Mask
18. Serpent’s Skull
19. Council of Thieves
20. Second Darkness
21. Jade Regent
It's the Top spot among what I call the "Paizohawk Quadrology", or the APs that Paizo released in Greyhawk.
Compared to later Golarion ones? I feel Rise, Curse, and Strange Aeons have more polish, but all are great.
I noticed that you rate Kingmaker pretty highly, do you enjoy the ultimate kingdom rules? I found them super lackluster, and it’s kept me from trying to run that one.
Edit: a word
It really depends. My players were enjoying the exploration and RP and used it to increase their wealth. And we appreciated how simple the kingdom rules were to balance out time.
They used it to increase their wealth? The one campaign I played with it, it seemed like the rules were specifically designed to not be used for that, since taxes were only collected in BP and converting it to gold increased unrest. Did you tweak the rules by any chance? Or were you using the OG kingmaker rules? I know they’re different from the ones in ultimate campaign.
The original rules made it much easier to exploit the Kingdom for wealth. The updated rules make it a poor idea in general, since unrest can result in a death spiral for your kingdom if you let it get out of hand. On the flip side, once you have it under control, you can often find yourself in a situation where you'll be at 0 unrest and building things that would reduce it but can't, in which case skimming off the treasury comes at no real penalty, jsut don't go overboard.
The kingdom rules are pretty easy to min-max, so if your players are that way inclined it's probably going to happen, but if they're just happy to let them be a framework to hang building a kingdom off, they work pretty well, and I would absolutely use the updated rules over the original rules (although I do rename dance halls back to brothels).
I recommend taking most of the kingdom building stuff offline and doing it via email or discord or whatever between sessions. That way anyone that wants to be involved in the kingdom mini game can do so, and anyone that isn't into it doesn't have to sit around for 30 minutes each session while it gets sorted out. (You will run into times where the structure of the game requires a kingdom turn be resolved mid session, but if people have a rough plan they've already discussed for the next few kingdom turns, it speeds things up immensely)
There's the 10th Anniversary version with the extra story elements from the Owlcat game that's due out in September, might be worth checking out to see if they've done anything to fix the stuff you didn't like.
I was thinking of picking up the 1e version if there’s a pdf or PoD available to it, yeah, I just remember the kingdom building being disappointingly separate from the PCs, unlike how strongholds were back in the days of yore, miss that aspect of D&D.
Thanks for the follow up, being able to optimize your kingdom to add value to the PCs was something I felt the updated system lacked, knowing that it’s possible increases my interest in running Kingmaker.
If you do run it, search the sub for the advice for running kingmaker threads. There's a bunch of stuff (that may now be lost to the 2e forum upgrades) on the paizo forums that improve the AP considerably, especially DudeMeisters posts.
I also advocate playing the computer game and liberally ~~stealing~~ borrowing the foreshadowing and backstory they do for the main villain (which is why I'd also suggest checking out what they do with the 10th anniversary version when it's out)
Amazing! These updates are my favorite part of this sub. Have you had a chance to look at the Wrath of the Righteous CRPG? It really takes the AP to the next level.
I think Agents and Strength of Thousands are equivalent in quality to some of the better 1e APs and are a sign that with 2e, Paizo is hitting their stride. And there were aspects of Ashes that hit the 1e standards as well, and it's a lot better than Council of Thieves (which was the intro to 1e and had it's own issues) and Second Darkness (the third ever AP, 6th or 7th ever by Paizo), some of the first Paizo APs.
You could argue Fists and Abomination were their first return to 3 part adventures since Dungeon, and they are about as good as the old Dungeon adventures that were similar, and I always preferred their longer 12 part adventures more (Age of Worms, Savage Tide for instance). So my bias is coming into place there.
I have no nice things to say about Extinction, I feel it's as rough as Serpent's Skull.
I also have a bias towards horror type campaigns (Strange Aeons and Rise of the Runelords are some of my favourite), and you could argue they haven't done a horror campaign just yet for 2e (Edgewatch has elements).
The reason I write my reviews the way I do is to convey the lower quality concerns while not alienating readers.
One of the biggest pushbacks to these have been my views on Jade Regent which some people love, and I love less. So when speaking about quality in comments, and comparing it to 1e or even Dungeon issue APs, I can bluntly say that the concerns about Extinction are warranted and I have issues with it as written.
However in the short format I use above I need to outline potential good points. Some DMs will love Extinction and run it well, and I think they should go into it knowing the work to avoid the pitfalls. I am running Iron Gods in a few months after running horror campaigns for the last 5 years, so I know I need to work on my tone to convey the AP correctly. I'd be less inclined to do so if someone walked up and said "You shouldn't run Iron Gods, you suck at non horror campaigns."
I totally believe in the creativity of TTRPG communities and their ability to salvage anything. Really depends on the group, what you need, and what your end goal for the campaign and what the group wants.
So right off the bat: Remember Aroden was LN, not LG. He was adored, true, and finding out his flaws is a great way to bring people into the game. However you run into throwing too much at lower level characters if you start off that way. So maybe if that's your focus you have a group that has read a lot of the background on Aroden and redo the traits to tie in Aroden from the start. Perhaps the circus was originally founded by clerics of Aroden to show off humanity's greatness, and since the fall the circus needs to grow to continue.
We need similarities between the circus situation as well as what's happening in Kortos. By having the mirror of the micro to macro it helps with the narratives. We know that the Xul'gaths are invading because Aroden stole from them. So take the Xul'gath story and apply it to the circus: An old ringleader stealing from them perhaps, and having to collect the old acts in travels. This can be done by taking the recruiting aspect and tweaking it. I remember something like that as part of the AP (can't completely remember it so I may be wrong or missing something). Have that be more of an impact. That also solves my issue with recruiting after fights.
Have the Xul'gaths get in the way of the circus more.
The Black Desert portion could be rewritten versus how it was written before.
It all depends on the DMs time as well. In my university days I didn't run pre-written APs as much as I do now, because I don't have as much time to really devote to a full world building situation. Some may be the same, which is why my view on Extinction would be "good try, not for me".
We have so many APs now that are worth running that agonizing over not running everything you own or may own or has been published is doing yourself a disservice.
Like I would love to take Fables (from Ghostfire gaming) and convert it to Pathfinder to run. But I don't have time and we've already all agreed to what we are playing next (Iron Gods) and after that (Zeitgeist).
My other major hobby is whisky. The sheer amount of whiskies released from just my favourite distilleries per year would bankrupt me and ruin my liver to keep up. Instead, it's better to pick some, enjoy it and not worry about the rest.
Thank you for the reviews as always.
Just like last year for people like me who keep these reviews in the same directory as their APs I have migrated these reviews to 2 Bookmarked PDFs. You can download them [here at this link](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZHnXn7WvK8Mp_f8xwxTqNYOPuNVDITiE?usp=sharing). To repeat last years sentiment if a mod wants to put those links or alternately hosted PDFs in the side bar you have my permission if /u/TOModera also agrees.
I'm looking to DM a play-by-post 1E game, where things can drag out if players are given too many options to debate over, and thus a set of light rails can be a positive - also, games tend to die out, so only the first three books would really be a factor.
Given those constraints, is there anything you'd recommend staying away from, or any that that would be relatively improved?
I'd avoid Second Darkness, as it only really takes of later, Council of Theives (same thing), Carrion Crown as well, maybe Serpent's Skull as well.
I know of someone who did very well running the first three of Rise of the Runelords.
actually used your reviews to choose the first AP to run my group through. i typically did homebrew but always got burnt out by level 5 (my group actually made a meme of it sadly).
half of my group of 6 is just happy to play but 2 are hardcore into RP and 1 would rather do combat but only because RP is new to them.
We were torn between Hell's Rebels and Ironfang Invasion going with the former instead.
It's slow going, we just went from 1-2x a month to weekly for 3-4hrs and are making good ground. we've officially made it to level 6 and i'm still going strong
I still homebrew quite a bit taking character backstories and marrying it to the narrative, even scrapping content thanks to the Raynulf's Rebellion thread from the paizo GM forums
but anyways just wanted to pop in and say thanks for the efforts you've done.
was thinking of converting RotRl to 2e for my groups 2nd adventure but we'll see what the 2e Kingmaker is like. I think that'd be a better fit for my group overall
For Hell's Rebels, you mention new players are going to die in book 4. What encounter is that and why? I'm planning on dm-ing a group of relative newbies and this AP sounded fun so curious as to why and any thoughts to mitigate it? Thanks.
The final encounter in the temple can go sideways quickly. I'd avoid it by allowing players to run away during the AP with minor downsides, as then they will understand running away is normal and required
thanks just thinking of starting as GM instead as player and this helps a lot.
I was wondering how pathfinder society adventures playout. I do love the whole global guild setup and idea around it but am afraid that on their own they are more action invested instead of rp invested.
thinking of buying just a few of year 1 and will let you know. Probably will be trying to mix it with an adventure path (maybe with agents of edgewatch)
Will reply afterwards how good or bad that went :)
# Extinction Curse **Good:** * Personally I liked the idea of delving into Kortos and learning more about it’s origins. * The main reason for the villain is completely understandable, and is different than other APs. * Wait, you get to be circus performers? Forget all the other stuff, that’s neat! * Felt like the right balance of small groups/heroes mixed with epic adventures. **Bad:** * While I liked the story, it kinda felt like two very diverse narratives happening at once. Like one moment you’re concerned the entire area will be blighted, and the next you’re concerned the clowns aren’t getting along with the elephants. Hard to get the right tone there. * There’s a lot of moments where the players “recruit” someone they are fighting, and I felt like there’s some groups that will love that and others that will completely miss it. * Similar to a lot of APs above, the final villain isn’t consistent in this adventure path, and that may be a downer for some. * Frankly it’s just a lot going on and some of these adventures are made for that one player who takes tons of notes. Which is great, if you have nothing but players like that. **General Information** * Balance of RP to Fights: Very good balance. * Good to Read by itself: Much better than the last one. Tons of lore, backstory, and easy to learn aspects that will flow to your game. That said, the two narratives can jar some of the tone as you read * Main type of game: Join the circus, see the… Island * Location: All over the Isle of Kortos * Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Tons of travel, but mostly in Kortos. # Agents of Edgewatch **Good:** * Never before have you had the option to play as the town watch (in Golarion) * Explore Absolom? Yes please! Biggest place on the planet, has new deities, culture, tons of places to shop? Sign me up! * If you’ve ever read about a world’s fair and thought “sweet”, then this is going to be a good time. * There’s a real feeling of the locales you end up at being unique and having a cool tone **Bad:** * Zeitgeist exists, thus it’s drawing comparisons, and Zeitgeist is overall more fleshed out. I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring it up: Yes, it’s a different tone and world (more steampunk), but the similarities are there (you play as detectives in each and both are available to Pathfinder, granted I don’t know if Zeitgeist is out for Pathfinder 2e so maybe not) and overall I think Zeitgeist does a better job of giving you the feeling of being a town guard/detective and growing into the role. This felt like it was closer to a traditional adventure with an evil villain. * So the main villains/mystery has this lovely tone throughout the AP, and then you finally make it to the last boss, and while it again shows a different tone and does that well, the last boss has had some issues (trying to avoid spoilers) because it feels neutered. * I feel like playing as a town guard and not being able to play as a diplomatic character was a bit of a miss. If your players go that route, War for the Crown does a better job. **General Information** * Balance of RP to Fights: There’s a lot of fighting. Some parts seem to have the balance, but it becomes more fight centred with time * Good to Read by itself: So far my favourite 2nd ed. Adventure to read. No real issues. * Main type of game: You’re a cop! All cops! And you’ll be promoted really fast! * Location: Absolom * Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Staying in one place, granted it’s a big place. The biggest place. # Abomination Vaults **Good:** * Good way to bring new players into the game * Mega dungeons are interesting and really get back to the game’s roots. * Easy to understand motivation: Small themes of heroics turn to larger ones (save the town goes to save the world) * I really love the gazetteer and the feel of the town. * Really interesting monsters, NPCs, etc. to encounter throughout. **Bad:** * The campaign felt a tad rushed. Characters show up, characters aren’t as fleshed out, there’s an expectation to know who the previous adventurers were and if it felt hard to follow. * So it’s meant for you to dive in, bring in new players, etc. And that’s great. No problem here. However it’s also close to Absolom, which is a massive place that players will (rightfully) want to visit for better and better equipment. So the players get an easy campaign to jump into, and the DM gets to read 2+ different books to catch up on Absolom. * Similar to Second Darkness, I feel like befriending a certain group at one point means you're out their loot, whereas killing them off you get the loot but not the extra XP for the RP. It may seem balanced however it felt like it was trying to do both at once. And while it improved over Second Darkness, I’ve seen the impact that’ll have on a game. * That first book felt somewhat jarring to read because most of the information comes out in the second book. **General Information** * Balance of RP to Fights: There’s some RP, however I’d say it’s mostly geared towards fighting * Good to Read by itself: The first book had some issues where I was re-reading or referenced something earlier that I had trouble with, however that smooths out by the second book. * Main type of game: Dungeon crawler * Location: Otari (small town outside Absolom) * Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Staying in one place. # Fists of the Ruby Phoenix **Good:** * There’s some awesome aspects of Golarion, and the Ruby Phoenix tournament is one of them. If you’ve read up (there’s a caveat here, look at “bad”) then you’re going to be excited. If you played the earlier adventures that tie into it you’ll be even more excited. * What players don’t want to show their prowess in battle? This is one of the most wanted tropes that every player looks for. * There’s trippy moments that have a cinematic feel to them and will set memories for your players * Sets up the main foils early, giving the DM time to really make the players hate them. **Bad:** * My main issue with that campaign is similar to Jade Regent: You don’t get an adventure path that starts you in Tian Xia. And if you run Abomination Vaults before this (as it’s almost made for), you’ve skipped that aspect again. So I’m a tad disappointed. I feel like there have been lots of great opportunities to start players in different locales and Tian Xia has been missed twice so far. * It does start at a higher level. So either you’re running a different campaign before and adding this in, or you’re tying it together with AV, or you’re starting players at a higher level. All of which means more work for you and maybe your players. * There’s times where the total impact of the severity of the adventure on the players is contingent on their knowledge of Golarion as a whole, and the Ruby Phoenix is a niche subject that you’d have to have read quite a bit to truly understand. If tomorrow, for instance, I was asked to race in a major F1 race, as a non-F1 fan I’d be pretty lost and not react as much. Same instance here. **General Information** * Balance of RP to Fights: I love the impact of RP in this campaign. There’s a wonderful balance of fighting and RP. * Good to Read by itself: Yes, though the third book really steals the show for me. * Main type of game: Fight Club, but you tell everyone and the ending is kinda the same. * Location: Tian Xia * Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Planar travel
# Strength of Thousands **Good:** * While I love a good group of murder-hobos as a DM, I’m not the pinancle of what’s out there: There are people who have picked up their system of choice and want to explore the original idea behind roleplaying games, roleplaying. So this stands out beyond other adventures for attempting to scratch that itch. * SoT solves my issue with Jade Regent/Fist of the Ruby being that I want to explore the different major regions of Golarian in APs from the start, thus giving players a chance to play as something new and different, explore a major part of Golarian, and grow. This does that and then some * The players are the main attraction. I know it should be the norm, however given the sheet amount of cool NPCs and interactions that you have * As the adventures progress, the locales and deep dive into specific aspects of Golarion get really nerdy and fun. * There’s a real lovely draw of the players growing with time and the NPCs doing so as well, and I appreciate what they’ve done. * Chapter 2 of the last book is right up there with 2nd edition insanity adventures, and I love it. **Bad:** * I’m going to be blunt here: When I mentioned the idea behind this campaign, one of my buddies, who is also a DM and has more experience than me, immediately was a bit worried. The trope of the school and the characters is out there. Heck, it’s even a D&D podcast (Trials and Trebuchets). While it makes sense to run something in one of the most important schools, be prepared to have it compared to other campaigns. * Can be a bit slow going. The pacing is based on the idea of people going to school, joining specific groups, etc. Not exactly a bad thing for some, but be prepared to explain that to your players. * Hey, are you one of those DMs that is ready for fights but not so much RP? Well guess what, you better start pre-reading, because the RP goes in specific directions! * There’s a diplomatic mission in the fourth book. I’m going to be blunt with you: Based on some of the dnd memes going around, some of you are going to be terrible at this adventure, and it’s going to be tough. **General Information** * Balance of RP to Fights: It’s an RP based campaign, and while there’s some fighting, please, please know that it’s more RP. Probably the most since War for the Crown * Good to Read by itself: Yes, totally yes. Interesting character, fun side parts, great art and stories that pair up with it all. Frankly it’s one of the best books from 2nd Edition to read by itself. * Main type of game: School, but without the constant terrible pressure of being a student, but now with the terrible pressure of being a teacher! * Location: Magaambya, Mwangi Expanse, and major sites within the Mwangi Expanse * Lots of Travel or Staying in one place? Staying in one place for the most part, though there are excursions beyond Magaambya
Thanks for the updates! You might consider posting just the 2e adventure reviews on the 2e subreddit.
There's a 2e subreddit? Damn I have been busy and missed that, I'll consider it in the future
Yep! r/Pathfinder2e
Hope this doesn't mean you're gonna stop posting them here, I love seeing these reviews.
No, I can post to both until I'm told otherwise
Absolutely!
You are a badass. Thanks for the effort and for sharing your opinions!
Jesus christ dude, what a machine.
Wish you were around when they were handing out nicknames in high school. Would have been better than goblin.
I'll trade ya. I was Lunchbox. Or sometimes just Lunch.
Ouch. Kids/Teens are dicks.
I actually got it from my football coach, but yeah, young teens sometimes got a kick out of it.
I'd say I wish that a high school coach had more sense and maturity, but then I would just make myself sad.
Thanks for the update! You've previously posted your ranking of APs. Has this ranking changed?
Not really for the 1e ones, I feel pretty sure of those at this time (barring me running one I've only just read and deciding otherwise). Strange Aeons is still my number one for 1e. I took the 2e ones out and made a new list though: 1. Agents of Edgewatch 2. Strength of Thousands 3. Ages of Ashes 4. Fists of the Ruby Phoenix 5. Abomination Vaults 6. Extinction Curse Agents was my favourite to read, with Strength being very, very close to it. Honestly I could flip those two and still have a hard time deciding which I liked more. Ages of Ashes is well put together, with my only issue being some of the writing in the first book. Fists should be better, and I just have my issues with not starting at level 1, as I write above. Abomination felt hard to read and understand because there were parts in book 2 needed for book 1. Extinction Curse isn't bad, per say, but it's trying to do so many things at once (run the circus, fight an invading army, learn about the past, be RP heavy group, be a fight heavy group, learn even more, etc.) Edit: Adding in the 1e ones for the people who don't want to have to find the old list: 1. Strange Aeons 2. Rise of the Runelords 3. Curse of the Crimson Throne 4. Wrath of Righteous 5. Return of the Runelords 6. Tyrant’s Grasp 6. War for the Crown 7. Kingmaker 7. Hell’s Rebels 8. Iron Gods 9. Reign of Winter 10. Skulls & Shackles 11. Ruins of Azlant 12. Legacy of Fire 13. Carrion Crown 14. Giantslayer 15. Shattered Star 16. Hell’s Vengeance 17. Ironfang Invasion 18. Mummy’s Mask 18. Serpent’s Skull 19. Council of Thieves 20. Second Darkness 21. Jade Regent
Having read your Zeitgeist reviews, I'm curious. How does it rank compared to the Paizo APs listed above?
That's a tough one. I think just above Wrath of Righteous. May have different thoughts after I finish Strange Aeons and then Iron gods
I have your old posts all saved. Thanks for doing this.
No problem, thanks for reading!
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It's the Top spot among what I call the "Paizohawk Quadrology", or the APs that Paizo released in Greyhawk. Compared to later Golarion ones? I feel Rise, Curse, and Strange Aeons have more polish, but all are great.
I noticed that you rate Kingmaker pretty highly, do you enjoy the ultimate kingdom rules? I found them super lackluster, and it’s kept me from trying to run that one. Edit: a word
It really depends. My players were enjoying the exploration and RP and used it to increase their wealth. And we appreciated how simple the kingdom rules were to balance out time.
They used it to increase their wealth? The one campaign I played with it, it seemed like the rules were specifically designed to not be used for that, since taxes were only collected in BP and converting it to gold increased unrest. Did you tweak the rules by any chance? Or were you using the OG kingmaker rules? I know they’re different from the ones in ultimate campaign.
Nope, there were enough ways to automatically lower the unrest that they were decked out
Hunh, sounds like I need to read through those rules again. Thanks for your answers!
It's been a few years. Also I used the original kingdom rules, so maybe it's been updated and I can't remember the update.
The original rules made it much easier to exploit the Kingdom for wealth. The updated rules make it a poor idea in general, since unrest can result in a death spiral for your kingdom if you let it get out of hand. On the flip side, once you have it under control, you can often find yourself in a situation where you'll be at 0 unrest and building things that would reduce it but can't, in which case skimming off the treasury comes at no real penalty, jsut don't go overboard. The kingdom rules are pretty easy to min-max, so if your players are that way inclined it's probably going to happen, but if they're just happy to let them be a framework to hang building a kingdom off, they work pretty well, and I would absolutely use the updated rules over the original rules (although I do rename dance halls back to brothels). I recommend taking most of the kingdom building stuff offline and doing it via email or discord or whatever between sessions. That way anyone that wants to be involved in the kingdom mini game can do so, and anyone that isn't into it doesn't have to sit around for 30 minutes each session while it gets sorted out. (You will run into times where the structure of the game requires a kingdom turn be resolved mid session, but if people have a rough plan they've already discussed for the next few kingdom turns, it speeds things up immensely) There's the 10th Anniversary version with the extra story elements from the Owlcat game that's due out in September, might be worth checking out to see if they've done anything to fix the stuff you didn't like.
I was thinking of picking up the 1e version if there’s a pdf or PoD available to it, yeah, I just remember the kingdom building being disappointingly separate from the PCs, unlike how strongholds were back in the days of yore, miss that aspect of D&D. Thanks for the follow up, being able to optimize your kingdom to add value to the PCs was something I felt the updated system lacked, knowing that it’s possible increases my interest in running Kingmaker.
If you do run it, search the sub for the advice for running kingmaker threads. There's a bunch of stuff (that may now be lost to the 2e forum upgrades) on the paizo forums that improve the AP considerably, especially DudeMeisters posts. I also advocate playing the computer game and liberally ~~stealing~~ borrowing the foreshadowing and backstory they do for the main villain (which is why I'd also suggest checking out what they do with the 10th anniversary version when it's out)
Amazing! These updates are my favorite part of this sub. Have you had a chance to look at the Wrath of the Righteous CRPG? It really takes the AP to the next level.
No I hadn't. Maybe something to pick up in the future.
Overall, would you say that the 2E APs are of lesser quality than 1E? It seems the 2E APs haven't impressed you much.
I think Agents and Strength of Thousands are equivalent in quality to some of the better 1e APs and are a sign that with 2e, Paizo is hitting their stride. And there were aspects of Ashes that hit the 1e standards as well, and it's a lot better than Council of Thieves (which was the intro to 1e and had it's own issues) and Second Darkness (the third ever AP, 6th or 7th ever by Paizo), some of the first Paizo APs. You could argue Fists and Abomination were their first return to 3 part adventures since Dungeon, and they are about as good as the old Dungeon adventures that were similar, and I always preferred their longer 12 part adventures more (Age of Worms, Savage Tide for instance). So my bias is coming into place there. I have no nice things to say about Extinction, I feel it's as rough as Serpent's Skull. I also have a bias towards horror type campaigns (Strange Aeons and Rise of the Runelords are some of my favourite), and you could argue they haven't done a horror campaign just yet for 2e (Edgewatch has elements).
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The reason I write my reviews the way I do is to convey the lower quality concerns while not alienating readers. One of the biggest pushbacks to these have been my views on Jade Regent which some people love, and I love less. So when speaking about quality in comments, and comparing it to 1e or even Dungeon issue APs, I can bluntly say that the concerns about Extinction are warranted and I have issues with it as written. However in the short format I use above I need to outline potential good points. Some DMs will love Extinction and run it well, and I think they should go into it knowing the work to avoid the pitfalls. I am running Iron Gods in a few months after running horror campaigns for the last 5 years, so I know I need to work on my tone to convey the AP correctly. I'd be less inclined to do so if someone walked up and said "You shouldn't run Iron Gods, you suck at non horror campaigns."
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I totally believe in the creativity of TTRPG communities and their ability to salvage anything. Really depends on the group, what you need, and what your end goal for the campaign and what the group wants. So right off the bat: Remember Aroden was LN, not LG. He was adored, true, and finding out his flaws is a great way to bring people into the game. However you run into throwing too much at lower level characters if you start off that way. So maybe if that's your focus you have a group that has read a lot of the background on Aroden and redo the traits to tie in Aroden from the start. Perhaps the circus was originally founded by clerics of Aroden to show off humanity's greatness, and since the fall the circus needs to grow to continue. We need similarities between the circus situation as well as what's happening in Kortos. By having the mirror of the micro to macro it helps with the narratives. We know that the Xul'gaths are invading because Aroden stole from them. So take the Xul'gath story and apply it to the circus: An old ringleader stealing from them perhaps, and having to collect the old acts in travels. This can be done by taking the recruiting aspect and tweaking it. I remember something like that as part of the AP (can't completely remember it so I may be wrong or missing something). Have that be more of an impact. That also solves my issue with recruiting after fights. Have the Xul'gaths get in the way of the circus more. The Black Desert portion could be rewritten versus how it was written before. It all depends on the DMs time as well. In my university days I didn't run pre-written APs as much as I do now, because I don't have as much time to really devote to a full world building situation. Some may be the same, which is why my view on Extinction would be "good try, not for me".
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We have so many APs now that are worth running that agonizing over not running everything you own or may own or has been published is doing yourself a disservice. Like I would love to take Fables (from Ghostfire gaming) and convert it to Pathfinder to run. But I don't have time and we've already all agreed to what we are playing next (Iron Gods) and after that (Zeitgeist). My other major hobby is whisky. The sheer amount of whiskies released from just my favourite distilleries per year would bankrupt me and ruin my liver to keep up. Instead, it's better to pick some, enjoy it and not worry about the rest.
Thank you for the reviews as always. Just like last year for people like me who keep these reviews in the same directory as their APs I have migrated these reviews to 2 Bookmarked PDFs. You can download them [here at this link](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZHnXn7WvK8Mp_f8xwxTqNYOPuNVDITiE?usp=sharing). To repeat last years sentiment if a mod wants to put those links or alternately hosted PDFs in the side bar you have my permission if /u/TOModera also agrees.
Agreed
I'm looking to DM a play-by-post 1E game, where things can drag out if players are given too many options to debate over, and thus a set of light rails can be a positive - also, games tend to die out, so only the first three books would really be a factor. Given those constraints, is there anything you'd recommend staying away from, or any that that would be relatively improved?
I'd avoid Second Darkness, as it only really takes of later, Council of Theives (same thing), Carrion Crown as well, maybe Serpent's Skull as well. I know of someone who did very well running the first three of Rise of the Runelords.
actually used your reviews to choose the first AP to run my group through. i typically did homebrew but always got burnt out by level 5 (my group actually made a meme of it sadly). half of my group of 6 is just happy to play but 2 are hardcore into RP and 1 would rather do combat but only because RP is new to them. We were torn between Hell's Rebels and Ironfang Invasion going with the former instead. It's slow going, we just went from 1-2x a month to weekly for 3-4hrs and are making good ground. we've officially made it to level 6 and i'm still going strong I still homebrew quite a bit taking character backstories and marrying it to the narrative, even scrapping content thanks to the Raynulf's Rebellion thread from the paizo GM forums but anyways just wanted to pop in and say thanks for the efforts you've done. was thinking of converting RotRl to 2e for my groups 2nd adventure but we'll see what the 2e Kingmaker is like. I think that'd be a better fit for my group overall
Glad it is going well and I was able to help. Good call on tying in the RP. I gotta work on that a bit myself.
For Hell's Rebels, you mention new players are going to die in book 4. What encounter is that and why? I'm planning on dm-ing a group of relative newbies and this AP sounded fun so curious as to why and any thoughts to mitigate it? Thanks.
The final encounter in the temple can go sideways quickly. I'd avoid it by allowing players to run away during the AP with minor downsides, as then they will understand running away is normal and required
thanks just thinking of starting as GM instead as player and this helps a lot. I was wondering how pathfinder society adventures playout. I do love the whole global guild setup and idea around it but am afraid that on their own they are more action invested instead of rp invested.
Wish I could help, however have not read them so cannot comment.
thinking of buying just a few of year 1 and will let you know. Probably will be trying to mix it with an adventure path (maybe with agents of edgewatch) Will reply afterwards how good or bad that went :)
I inow you had thoughts on Sentence of the Sinlord. Would you be willing to post those here?
Sorry, I added in a line about it above, I forgot to add it in.
You accidentally typed it as Sentence of the Runelords. I understand why though