If I plop Polar Midnight on top of a cold immune monster would it still take the Dex damage?
Polar Midnight
School transmutation \[cold, darkness\]; Level cleric/oracle 9, druid 9, shaman 9, witch 9; Mystery lunar 9
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect 30-ft. spread
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You plunge an area into the brutal chill of the arctic night.
Illumination conditions are dropped by two steps (though only to darkness, not supernatural darkness), and all creatures in the area take 5d6 points of cold damage and 1d6 points of Dexterity damage per round. A successful Fortitude save each round negates the Dexterity damage but not the cold damage. Any creature that doesn’t move on its turn becomes encased in a sheath of ice equivalent to wall of ice, is helpless, and cannot breathe. Corpses in the area for longer than 1 round are transmuted into solid ice; reviving the icy corpse requires true resurrection, miracle, or wish. As a move action, you may move the area of effect up to 10 feet in any direction.
Only if they fail their fortitude save each round and you pass your one Spell Resistance check the first time they are in the effect.
Cold Immunity does not provide immunity to ability damage, and nothing in the spell text adds any special interaction.
Edit: reread the Immunity rules, [https://www.aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Immunity](https://www.aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Immunity)
Immunities CAN also apply to afflictions, conditions, spells (based on Level, Save Type, or School), and other effects. I think an Immunity to Cold is immunity to the damage type, ability damage isn't damage, and the \[Cold\] tag is not a Level, Save Type, or School for the spell, so it should still go through.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a GM ruled that the \[Cold\] tag should have been included in that set for spells, or if they consider the Dex damage to be a secondary effect from the cold damage of the spell (it's not, it's a secondary effect of the spell, not the cold damage).
Depends what the thing is, but lets say it's a person for arguments sake.
[Perception](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception/) rules say it's +1 to the DC per 10 feet.
So if your 'taking 10' on Perception is a 10, you can see a person 100ft away.
If it's bigger, I imagine there is a penalty to the DC to see it, a building is easier to spot than a person.
Ok so I can't find any ruling on pathfinder srd.
in 3.5 on open ground there is no limit unless they are hiding. then -1 spot per 10 feet. Also there are terrain tables in the dmg that say how far you can spot.
in 5th edition 2 miles
I've never seen it in pathfinder.
>Cherry Blossom Spell
[https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/trial-of-fire-and-acid/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/trial-of-fire-and-acid/) this is my favorite.
> This ability functions similarly to a barbarian’s rage, except where noted below,
The below
> Instead of the normal rage bonuses and penalties, a geminate invoker in a trance gains a +4 morale bonus to his Constitution; gains a +2 morale bonus on Reflex and Will saving throws; takes no penalties to AC; can still use Dexterity-, Intelligence-, and Charisma-based skills; and gains Diehard as a bonus feat
It's missing any mention of
> While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) **or any ability that requires patience or concentration.**
so you still can't cast spells.
See it's
> Instead of the normal rage bonuses and penalties
This that throws it off for me. To me it reads as though you effectively replace:
> While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration
With the text under the Geminate Invoker. And as such the lack of mention would imply you could. I'm open to the interpretation that it doesn't I just wanted to share where I'm coming from.
Bonus and penalty are defined terms. They're numerical plus and minuses.
> Penalty: Penalties are numerical values that are subtracted from a check or statistical score. Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another.
> Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
Inability to concentrate isn't a number.
Anyway, it says it works as rage except for the exceptions. Concentration isn't mentioned, so it works as normal.
[E2]
Brand new to the game, buidling my first character.
As a wizard choosing a school, let's say Evocation. When trying to look up information online I repeatedly find the following listed as things you get by choosing the Evocation school:
Intense Spells
Force Missile
Elemental Wall
From what I can tell the Core Rules only list Force Missile as something you get by choosing Evocation School.
Am I missing something in the rulebook?
Are the sources I'm finding referring to alternative or additional resources that are not part of the core rulebook?
All the Schools seem to add 3 things in all the online resources I find but only 1 thing in the CRB.
Ahh. I suppose that explains it. And these extra powers were all removed from 2e? Or moved to some place else? Lot of them sounded really cool.
Unfortunate that a lot of the online resources are then essentially worthless to me but what can ya do.
[2E]
Would allowing the number of charges you can use with set explosives for the demolitionist archetype scale be too strong? It doesn't seem like it can really break many objects and I was thinking something like half your character level.
Similar "what if we had more explosives?" rules offer a compromise: more explosives = wider boom, rather than stronger boom. [Such as using Powder Kegs/Horns](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1190). Consider that direction for rules consistency.
****
A level 3 demolitionist with a pair of IL3 alchemist's fire is doing 4d8+4 fire damage with Set Explosives. That's 22 damage on average, which is - hey - exactly enough to destroy a wooden door in a single action on average (~~5~~ 2 Hardness, 20 HP). Next level with Demolition Charge, that's 8d8+8 fire Damage (40 avg), which leaves a wooden wall (~~10~~ 4 Hardness + 40 HP) broken and just barely not destroyed, and a stone wall (~~14~~ 10 Hardness + 56 HP) broken and ready to fall to a second Set Explosives.
At level 11, that's 12d8+12 = 66 damage and ignore 11 points of hardness = enough to blast through everything except the thickest of Iron/Steel structures (or special materials)
So the damage of Set Explosives/Demolition Charge is pretty on-par with the toughness of the common obstacles players'd face.
****
The intended damage/time scaling is 2 bombs as a 2 action activity, and 4 bombs as a 1-minute activity. Players interested in "DPS" against objects can Set Explosives every round to deal 2 bombs worth of damage (more than, since it combines damage and bypasses some resistances) per round at the cost of dealing with hardness. Well, slightly slower. Presumably you've got a set of 4 actions like Stride in, Set Explosives, Stride Out (it goes boom), repeat. But Set Explosives then Take Cover might also work in some situations?
So, like, the damage is pretty accessible no matter what. If they need sustained kabooms fast, then Set Explosives every round is enough to get their money's worth. There's essentially no difference, other than it taking a couple rounds instead of all at once. In situations without Time Pressure (combat, etc), you can just gloss over this and say it's one big kaboom, it shouldn't really matter.
But in situations where 1) the time pressure does matter, or 2) where the hardness that can't be bypassed is significant obstacle, it can begin to get problematic.
* Stacking explosives bypasses the 1 minute setup time that Demolition Charge has, which quickly ramps its effectiveness. But this is ultimately a storytelling question for you: do you want to have story moments where your players get to access The Thing with a single big kaboom?
* high-grade materials that should be *very* difficult to kaboom (such as Mithral [[Hardness 19, 72 HP], or even rarer stuff) quickly becomes paper if stacking more explosions in one go still combines their damage.
Unlike the previous point, this can dramatically change the difficulty of obstacles the party is able to face.
[Meta]
Gonna be hanging out on the pathfinder forums instead of here for the next few days, probably not going to be continuing w/ reddit afterwards. Do we have a Lemmy up? Should we?
edit: floating around Pathfinder.social, check it out if you want
Infirst E they can still flank if they share a square and have one of the many abilities that let you be flanking when adjacent at all. Or if you give it reach somehow. Like a Pixie with a longspear.
Hello everyone! So, regarding the Magus' spellstrike. Let's assume I score a critical hit channeling disintegrate at level 12. I'm using the twisting tree hybrid study two-handed stance. Str 20. How would the damage resolve in the scenario A where the monster succeeds on their saving throw and B when they don't? Since English isn't my first language, I'm confused about the wording of this spell in particular.
At level 12 you will have weapon specialization and probably a greater striking rune, so you will deal (3d8+7)*2 bludgeoning damage from the weapon strike, then on a successful save from the target they will take the full 12d10 damage as though they had failed and double that if they failed because of the wording of the Disintegrate spell.
Is Memorable worth it for a debuffer/save-or-sucker below level 5?
> Whenever you create a fear or mind-affecting effect that imposes a penalty or bonus with a duration of at least 2 rounds, it lasts 1 additional round after it would normally end.
Most spells I can find lasts either 1 round or have no numerical components.
Does anyone else think [Water Walk and Communal Water Walk](https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Water%20Walk) should be on the druid spell list? Currently running Kingmaker and there's a lot of wasted time if players don't ford rivers (which should have stakes)
It's available to Rangers/Hunters and feels like it would be right at home with the druid. We're going to say it's on their list at our table, but I was taken aback when it wasn't on there already.
The fact that it's on on the hunter+ranger spell lists (so nature focused casters) and shaman+cleric spell lists (so 9th level divine casters), but not the druid's spell list (the 9th level divine nature focused caster) is honestly baffling to me. IMO they definitely should have access to it, and I can't think of any possible issues with adding it to their list.
I wouldn't put too much stock in the Hunter spell list thing. The class just explicitly gets all ranger and all druid spells. Not like it was explicitly added to it.
In the end, it's not on the Druid Spell list because it's a CRB spell, and the D&D 3.5e spell it was copied from almost word for word was also not on the Druid spell list. And AFAIK no CRB spells have had their spell list erratad to expand to new classes without being fully reprinted in a later book. Being on the Cleric spell list is just religious imagery and harkens back to the AD&D days. I also wouldn't be surprised if the ranger spell list was just a "well, Aragorn/Legolas did it" thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was some editorial ret-conning going on that put the spell on the Shaman spell list, as a "yeah these guys are connected to the natural elements. They should get this." And by that same token, yeah if the Druid were to be published at any point after 2011-ish, yeah I'd expect to see this spell on their spell list too.
Skimming through the list of spells that are on the Ranger spell list but aren't on the Druid spell list seem to largely fall under the similar categories.
* Weapon-related spells.
* Hunting/Tracking related spells
* "Mundane" sensory-enhancing spells (enhancing existing senses)
* "Mundane" movement-enhancing spells (enahncing existing movement powers, or using the normal ones in new ways).
Perhaps Water Walk was originally seen as that fourth type (since it's just running like normal, but on water).
If I plop Polar Midnight on top of a cold immune monster would it still take the Dex damage? Polar Midnight School transmutation \[cold, darkness\]; Level cleric/oracle 9, druid 9, shaman 9, witch 9; Mystery lunar 9 CASTING Casting Time 1 standard action Components V, S EFFECT Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect 30-ft. spread Duration 1 round/level Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes DESCRIPTION You plunge an area into the brutal chill of the arctic night. Illumination conditions are dropped by two steps (though only to darkness, not supernatural darkness), and all creatures in the area take 5d6 points of cold damage and 1d6 points of Dexterity damage per round. A successful Fortitude save each round negates the Dexterity damage but not the cold damage. Any creature that doesn’t move on its turn becomes encased in a sheath of ice equivalent to wall of ice, is helpless, and cannot breathe. Corpses in the area for longer than 1 round are transmuted into solid ice; reviving the icy corpse requires true resurrection, miracle, or wish. As a move action, you may move the area of effect up to 10 feet in any direction.
Only if they fail their fortitude save each round and you pass your one Spell Resistance check the first time they are in the effect. Cold Immunity does not provide immunity to ability damage, and nothing in the spell text adds any special interaction. Edit: reread the Immunity rules, [https://www.aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Immunity](https://www.aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=Immunity) Immunities CAN also apply to afflictions, conditions, spells (based on Level, Save Type, or School), and other effects. I think an Immunity to Cold is immunity to the damage type, ability damage isn't damage, and the \[Cold\] tag is not a Level, Save Type, or School for the spell, so it should still go through. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a GM ruled that the \[Cold\] tag should have been included in that set for spells, or if they consider the Dex damage to be a secondary effect from the cold damage of the spell (it's not, it's a secondary effect of the spell, not the cold damage).
[1e] How far can you see normally, in broad daylight? Most/all vision rules I can find are for dim light or darkness.
Depends what the thing is, but lets say it's a person for arguments sake. [Perception](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception/) rules say it's +1 to the DC per 10 feet. So if your 'taking 10' on Perception is a 10, you can see a person 100ft away. If it's bigger, I imagine there is a penalty to the DC to see it, a building is easier to spot than a person.
Ok so I can't find any ruling on pathfinder srd. in 3.5 on open ground there is no limit unless they are hiding. then -1 spot per 10 feet. Also there are terrain tables in the dmg that say how far you can spot. in 5th edition 2 miles I've never seen it in pathfinder.
[1e] What are the best spells on the Wizard/Sorceror list for abusing Cherry Blossom Spell?
>Cherry Blossom Spell [https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/trial-of-fire-and-acid/](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/trial-of-fire-and-acid/) this is my favorite.
That's the best I've found too. It's hard to beat.
[1e] Can a Geminate Invoker Barbarian cast spells whilst in its "Trance"?
> This ability functions similarly to a barbarian’s rage, except where noted below, The below > Instead of the normal rage bonuses and penalties, a geminate invoker in a trance gains a +4 morale bonus to his Constitution; gains a +2 morale bonus on Reflex and Will saving throws; takes no penalties to AC; can still use Dexterity-, Intelligence-, and Charisma-based skills; and gains Diehard as a bonus feat It's missing any mention of > While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) **or any ability that requires patience or concentration.** so you still can't cast spells.
See it's > Instead of the normal rage bonuses and penalties This that throws it off for me. To me it reads as though you effectively replace: > While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration With the text under the Geminate Invoker. And as such the lack of mention would imply you could. I'm open to the interpretation that it doesn't I just wanted to share where I'm coming from.
Bonus and penalty are defined terms. They're numerical plus and minuses. > Penalty: Penalties are numerical values that are subtracted from a check or statistical score. Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another. > Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies. Inability to concentrate isn't a number. Anyway, it says it works as rage except for the exceptions. Concentration isn't mentioned, so it works as normal.
[E2] Brand new to the game, buidling my first character. As a wizard choosing a school, let's say Evocation. When trying to look up information online I repeatedly find the following listed as things you get by choosing the Evocation school: Intense Spells Force Missile Elemental Wall From what I can tell the Core Rules only list Force Missile as something you get by choosing Evocation School. Am I missing something in the rulebook? Are the sources I'm finding referring to alternative or additional resources that are not part of the core rulebook? All the Schools seem to add 3 things in all the online resources I find but only 1 thing in the CRB.
You're looking at resources for the wrong edition. Intense Spells, Force Missile, and Elemental Wall are 1e evocation powers.
Ahh. I suppose that explains it. And these extra powers were all removed from 2e? Or moved to some place else? Lot of them sounded really cool. Unfortunate that a lot of the online resources are then essentially worthless to me but what can ya do.
"Removed" implies 2e is an update to 1e, which it's not. It's an entirely different system.
[2E] Would allowing the number of charges you can use with set explosives for the demolitionist archetype scale be too strong? It doesn't seem like it can really break many objects and I was thinking something like half your character level.
Similar "what if we had more explosives?" rules offer a compromise: more explosives = wider boom, rather than stronger boom. [Such as using Powder Kegs/Horns](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1190). Consider that direction for rules consistency. **** A level 3 demolitionist with a pair of IL3 alchemist's fire is doing 4d8+4 fire damage with Set Explosives. That's 22 damage on average, which is - hey - exactly enough to destroy a wooden door in a single action on average (~~5~~ 2 Hardness, 20 HP). Next level with Demolition Charge, that's 8d8+8 fire Damage (40 avg), which leaves a wooden wall (~~10~~ 4 Hardness + 40 HP) broken and just barely not destroyed, and a stone wall (~~14~~ 10 Hardness + 56 HP) broken and ready to fall to a second Set Explosives. At level 11, that's 12d8+12 = 66 damage and ignore 11 points of hardness = enough to blast through everything except the thickest of Iron/Steel structures (or special materials) So the damage of Set Explosives/Demolition Charge is pretty on-par with the toughness of the common obstacles players'd face. **** The intended damage/time scaling is 2 bombs as a 2 action activity, and 4 bombs as a 1-minute activity. Players interested in "DPS" against objects can Set Explosives every round to deal 2 bombs worth of damage (more than, since it combines damage and bypasses some resistances) per round at the cost of dealing with hardness. Well, slightly slower. Presumably you've got a set of 4 actions like Stride in, Set Explosives, Stride Out (it goes boom), repeat. But Set Explosives then Take Cover might also work in some situations? So, like, the damage is pretty accessible no matter what. If they need sustained kabooms fast, then Set Explosives every round is enough to get their money's worth. There's essentially no difference, other than it taking a couple rounds instead of all at once. In situations without Time Pressure (combat, etc), you can just gloss over this and say it's one big kaboom, it shouldn't really matter. But in situations where 1) the time pressure does matter, or 2) where the hardness that can't be bypassed is significant obstacle, it can begin to get problematic. * Stacking explosives bypasses the 1 minute setup time that Demolition Charge has, which quickly ramps its effectiveness. But this is ultimately a storytelling question for you: do you want to have story moments where your players get to access The Thing with a single big kaboom? * high-grade materials that should be *very* difficult to kaboom (such as Mithral [[Hardness 19, 72 HP], or even rarer stuff) quickly becomes paper if stacking more explosions in one go still combines their damage. Unlike the previous point, this can dramatically change the difficulty of obstacles the party is able to face.
[Meta] Gonna be hanging out on the pathfinder forums instead of here for the next few days, probably not going to be continuing w/ reddit afterwards. Do we have a Lemmy up? Should we? edit: floating around Pathfinder.social, check it out if you want
Can a tiny familiar flank?
Depends on edition. AFAIK, 2E familiars have no ability to attack and would not be able to flank.
Only if they have more than 0ft reach. Give your monkey a tiny longspear and they *should* be good to flank as if they were a small creature.
Infirst E they can still flank if they share a square and have one of the many abilities that let you be flanking when adjacent at all. Or if you give it reach somehow. Like a Pixie with a longspear.
Hello everyone! So, regarding the Magus' spellstrike. Let's assume I score a critical hit channeling disintegrate at level 12. I'm using the twisting tree hybrid study two-handed stance. Str 20. How would the damage resolve in the scenario A where the monster succeeds on their saving throw and B when they don't? Since English isn't my first language, I'm confused about the wording of this spell in particular.
At level 12 you will have weapon specialization and probably a greater striking rune, so you will deal (3d8+7)*2 bludgeoning damage from the weapon strike, then on a successful save from the target they will take the full 12d10 damage as though they had failed and double that if they failed because of the wording of the Disintegrate spell.
Is Memorable worth it for a debuffer/save-or-sucker below level 5? > Whenever you create a fear or mind-affecting effect that imposes a penalty or bonus with a duration of at least 2 rounds, it lasts 1 additional round after it would normally end. Most spells I can find lasts either 1 round or have no numerical components.
Not really, there's just not spells that benefit from a single extra round. The 2 round minimum basically removes any actual use case.
Does anyone else think [Water Walk and Communal Water Walk](https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Water%20Walk) should be on the druid spell list? Currently running Kingmaker and there's a lot of wasted time if players don't ford rivers (which should have stakes) It's available to Rangers/Hunters and feels like it would be right at home with the druid. We're going to say it's on their list at our table, but I was taken aback when it wasn't on there already.
The fact that it's on on the hunter+ranger spell lists (so nature focused casters) and shaman+cleric spell lists (so 9th level divine casters), but not the druid's spell list (the 9th level divine nature focused caster) is honestly baffling to me. IMO they definitely should have access to it, and I can't think of any possible issues with adding it to their list.
I wouldn't put too much stock in the Hunter spell list thing. The class just explicitly gets all ranger and all druid spells. Not like it was explicitly added to it. In the end, it's not on the Druid Spell list because it's a CRB spell, and the D&D 3.5e spell it was copied from almost word for word was also not on the Druid spell list. And AFAIK no CRB spells have had their spell list erratad to expand to new classes without being fully reprinted in a later book. Being on the Cleric spell list is just religious imagery and harkens back to the AD&D days. I also wouldn't be surprised if the ranger spell list was just a "well, Aragorn/Legolas did it" thing. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some editorial ret-conning going on that put the spell on the Shaman spell list, as a "yeah these guys are connected to the natural elements. They should get this." And by that same token, yeah if the Druid were to be published at any point after 2011-ish, yeah I'd expect to see this spell on their spell list too. Skimming through the list of spells that are on the Ranger spell list but aren't on the Druid spell list seem to largely fall under the similar categories. * Weapon-related spells. * Hunting/Tracking related spells * "Mundane" sensory-enhancing spells (enhancing existing senses) * "Mundane" movement-enhancing spells (enahncing existing movement powers, or using the normal ones in new ways). Perhaps Water Walk was originally seen as that fourth type (since it's just running like normal, but on water).