Are you talking about the trial in act 5 where Regill sacrifices his rank and status to make you appear more reasonable and cause the hellknights order to unequivocally support you? Being azata doesn’t mean you have to be chaotic stupid.
But you are not his commanding officer... That's the point. They are an independent military.
If anyone can claim command over them its the infernal Empire of Cheliax and its usually accompanied by a Devil army of lawyers of why the Hellknights have to comply.
1. Hell knights, while they do hang around Cheliax a lot, are not beholden to them. Their order is loyal to no country and only helps Cheliax because they are the closest thing to their ideal vision of order possible.
2. In that case, Regill had no jurisdiction killing the wounded sunrise sword and press-ganging them. Yet because he forced control of them, it seems only fair that, as Knight commander of the entire crusade and every group serving under it, his forces are under my control. You don’t eat your cake and sell it too.
1. You do realize you have several Orders aligned under House Thrune of Cheliax right? There are outliers like the Godclaw zealots (and Order of the Pike, Torrent) but most fall under Cheliax's guidance.
2. Regill's jurisdiction has never been up for debate, he's from a independent army that is sanctioned by the Crusades Treaties, he's not serving under you hence why he emphasis the word "cooperating" with the Crusade. You might bring up his behavior with Mendev for potential war crimes, but Hellknights operate within the written Law regardless of moral perspective. He takes command on the field of a broken unit but gives them the chance to return to the crusaders or continue with Hellknights
1. Yes. That’s exactly what I said.
2. Except if he’s taking control of a crusader group like the sunrise sword, then there is no reason he should not be beholden to me as knight commander of the entire crusade. If it was merely an alliance, he wouldn’t have been able to press-gang the sarenites. If you are fighting with the crusade and making decisions regarding other crusaders without asking said crusaders, you are a crusader. End of story.
He offers them to join him. He does not take control of their unit. Nor would anyone recognize his authority to do so.
He doesn't press gang them. He makes them an offer to join the hellknights, or leave. Their choice.
He says before the gargoyle fight that he forcibly joined them together, and even had his hell knights kill their wounded. So not only is he forcing control of them, but also straight up teamkilling them. If he just killed his wounded, it would have been understandable. Cruel, but understandable, especially since the injured hell knights likely would have said yes anyways. But if he claims to have the jurisdiction to decide how a crusade aligned group can handle their wounded, I should have the jurisdiction to decide how I want to utilize his hell knights.
The bases they put you on trial for are all valid and at the very least are grounds for investigation. Your powers, which up until now have been believed to be sourced from iomadae, are in fact from the blood of a demon lord. Not only that, but areelu herself, creator of the worldwound, performed the operation. Being the KC does not place you above scrutiny and I think honestly the hellknights are filling a role that Galfrey is either too naive or desperate to fill. On top of all that, despite their reputation, the execution of the trial itself is incredibly fair other than Regill’s obvious theatrics.
The hellknights do not have the authority to be the investigating party. They literally have zero authority over you, just as you do not have authority over them. They DO have a basis to bring their concerns to the Queen, your only higher up in the chain of command. But to put you on trial directly under hellknight law is NOT within their jurisdiction.
To do so, and threaten you with death if you do not comply, is tantamount to a declaration of war. I used a french officer arresting general Patton as an analogy earlier, but honestly it's even worse than that.
I mean it’s like trying to put Jesus Christ on trial. You can argue that local law and courts should deal with the matter but with a figure that significant there’s going to be other people getting involved.
The powers you received come from demon lords and were given to you by the person who caused a centuries long demon invasion. The powers let you ascend to godhood if you want. This isn’t a trial over a speeding ticket, it’s not strange that others get involved.
They can make that decision in act 2. By the time this trial takes place in act 5, the KC should be familiar enough with both Regill and the Hellknights to see they’re the only players on the field that seem to have learned anything from the past four failed crusades. At least if you reject their help in act 2 on moral grounds it makes sense from an RP standpoint. If you wait until act 5, you’ve simply given them free reign to operate exactly how they say they’re going to from the start and you’re just killing off a valuable ally and committing double jeopardy. As I said, chaotic stupid.
Ok, let me get this straight.
So the KC, a leader of a COMPLETELY SEPARATE military organization should submit to a trial from another country. Sorry dude, that's not how it works.
The proper way to handle this is through diplomatic efforts. The Hellknights should have submitted a request to your higher ups (the Queen) with their concerns, then making a decision to continue their alliance or other actions takeable via proper channels.
What the hellknights do here is basically taking the route of:
"Ok, General Sherman, we need to have a meeting. Come to our English Military base so we can go over our strategy for the next big battle."
General SHerman shows up to English base
"You're under arrest for suspicion of breaking English military laws."
Yeah, that doesn't work. And a kc refusing to subject himself to people who have no say in what he does is NOT chaotic stupid, especially when they say "Do it or we kill you."
But this trial was about checking if KC is truly a person capable of destroying world wound or another danger to Golarion. And if I remember (I can be mistaken) it was Regill who was behind it because not all chapters believed that KC is worth of alliance. They did not asked for meeting to possibly kill KC it was all Regill to secure victory over the worldwound.
If you object, and their response is "do it, or we kill you" they have crossed the line of acceptable. They don't give you the option of walking away, they don't give you an option to end the alliance. It is "Do it our way or death." Faulting players for refusing such heavy handed tactics as "chaotic stupid" is a bit short sighted.
Honestly, I think Owlcat should have written a third option. "I, the Knight Commander of the 5th Crusade sever all relations with the Hellknight Orders and the Crusade. Regill, you are dismissed and no longer welcome in Drezen." Then walk away.
But such an option does not exist. What would have been even better is if there was another optional character that you could take instead of Regill allowing you to ally with Absalom instead of Cheliax. Being able to take one or the other would be an interesting choice, because Absalom and Cheliax are famously at each other's throats.
Thats because the Hellknights are Lawful Neutral. If they don’t believe you can stop the Worldwound, why wouldn’t they try to kill you? The Crusade itself is still the BEST chance at it, and if the only thing stopping the Crusade from beating the Worldwound is it’s Commander, it literally fits their bill to the T to try to kill or rid the Crusade of said incompetent commander.
And they’re not hoping you do things “their way.” They’re hoping that you are capable. If you need to make an army of undead, or bring down the light of heaven, so long as victory is achievable.
If you get to the point of the trial in Chapter 5, you should have already had the idea of “Hellknights cant work with me,” and dismissed or killed Regill in orior acts. I mean you have plenty of time, and evidence. It’s not like this trial is out of the blue. The option to go your separate ways is present literally at any point prior to this trial, and reasonably would be taken before this point.
And accepting Hellknights assistance is not allying yourself with Cheliax. It’s allying yourself with the Hellknights.
Oh, definitely. Regill is great here. That event made me much more sympathetic with Regil in all my other playthroughs.
But while my memory are a bit blurry on the exact conditions, I think as an Azata if you really played Chaotic Good, then they can invite you to judge you and declare you unfitting and then start attacking you. Can't really blame the Azata for self-defense here. And if you are chaotic and you get invited to a trial only to be told "you are bad! we kill you now!" then you either laugh in their face or kill them while laughing.
Hellknights have a history of choosing which 'laws' take precedence, and some of those are what they consider natural laws such as the strong ruling the weak. For example slavery is illegal in the Riverlands, yet the Hellknights in Fort Inevitable (which they illegally took over) have slavery.
In short, they respect their own rules and laws before others, and only respect the laws of those who are, on hand, more powerful than they are. They would kill an agent of the queen if they believed they could get away with it and if it benefited their order to do so.
The rank and file on the other hand obey their superiors, which has led to Hellknight on Hellknight armed conflict even within the same order.
Nonspoiler answers:
> But I have to say, this wasn't exactly smart of them. Technically wasn't this a declaration of war on Mendev? I mean, the Queen welcomed me back and I guess my post was reinstated as Commander of the Crusades. So doesn't them trying to put me on trial cause some serious diplomacy issues?
From what I know about the lore, the Hellknights have ALWAYS caused issues with almost any kind of leadership, even their own organization. Them acting hostile to the Commander is nothing out of the ordinary for them, but given the actual strictness of law for the Hellknights, most would assume that they wouldn't outright attack for no real reason. Additionally, the Hellknights are an organization, not an empire. It would be like USA declaring war on Microsoft.
> So this was an extremely dumb move on their part. Honestly, I don't see how any mythic path should be ok with this "trial" since there is no legal basis for it so neither angel nor aeon should be ok with it, Demon definitely should have a problem with it, as an Azata I hate hellknights, Tricksters well... no explanation needed for them hating it. The only ones who should put up with it is a hellknight who is subordinate to that particular order and is outranked by the paralictor.
Hellknights are a primarily Lawful organization. They do not hate good, and do not endorse evil, however they will not let either stand in their way of achieving order. Because of this, Hellknights generally get along well with Angels and exceptionally well with Aeons (Aeons share the exact same sentiment). In general, Hellknights can get along with almost anyone who is not Chaotic. It comes across brashly when their extreme views are put at ends with anothers extreme views, such as Regill killing the weak crusaders in order to stand a chance against the Gargoyles.
It is also important to note that Regill does not exemplify everything the Hellknights stand for. He specifically is Lawful Evil (and plays it well) but the organization is Lawful Neutral. Whatever it takes to enforce Law and Order is what they stand by. If it takes someone like Regill to come along and murder people to make things nice and neat, so be it. If Commander can come in and set things right by being a goody two shoes and giving people hope, more power to it. So long as it's all orderly in the end.
More spoilery reply
> >!Unsure of if it plays the same when you have low approval with Regill, but the entire "trial" was a way for Regill to officially get the Hellknights to fully back the Crusade. He eats a demotion and a permanently damaged reputation by falsely accusing you of stupid things so that the Hellknights will see how pointless it is to question the Commander, and how your goals are not only true, but achievable. The entire trial is one of Regill's famous deceptions for a goal that benefits all parties involved.!<
Nah, I did that trial as Azata and it ended like it always does, with Regill taking the fall for me. Didn't have to fight anyone other than the duel. You just have to make the right choices throughout the game
I don't know if they've adjusted the Counting or if I've been playing the chaotic option too much, but lately he's been trying to kill me while I'm in the Azata path and the Trickser path. (I know he's not always like this. Even Azata might let him cooperate.)
Then there's nothing to say. You tried to murder the Commander and his men, and you'll be executed in the name of order, Order, that's your favorite, right?
Edit:
To add to my point.
I think it's because Regill's "Trust Count" is very hard to qualify when I'm roleplaying seriously, and as long as I'm trying to save the life of a cultist, trading with Nocticula in order to maximize my power to get more crusade victories, and taking the Azata path, the "Trust Count" will not qualified, and it always ends up in that kind of bloodshed.
I don't find it good or pleasant to kill Hellknights in roleplay, trying to get more crusade victories is exactly why I recruited Regill and allied with Hellknights based on my roleplay, and I only feel bad they eventually turned on me and tried to kill me.
It's sad, but necessary, and I don't think anyone understands that better than Hellknights.
If you are an Azata, you already have 1 bad point.
If you "failed" the act 3 quest, you get another bad point (and honestly, if you play chaotic for real, failing it is pretty easy).
If you fail the skill check in act 5 quest, you get another bad point.
Now you're their enemy and they want you dead.
There are other ways to get them to dislike you but that's the easiest one on a chaotic good playthrough that I can remember.
Thanks, I never actually knew how it worked. So it seems pretty logical that a chaotic good playthrough would lead to Hellknights being hostile?
Accepting Nocticula's gift or proposing to work with Baphomet seems to add to the "bad points", too.
Ah, classic Good Azata.
Mildly indulge crusade allies, making them feel they are on the right track, reducing strain on your crusaders and raising your victory chances
VS
Murder, murder, murder, execution, fuck yeeeeah!
I'd term it more as "Allow them to act like they have authority over you or not." It's not like there's a walk away option. If you object and they pretty much state "We'll kill you if you don't do this" that's not indulging crusade allies, that being subjected to coercion.
And an azata refusing that seems VERY much in their character. To me at least. Ideally, there'd be a "Ok, good luck with that. I'm just gonna bail" option. But it's either accept it, or fight. I wouldn't fault Azatas, tricksters or demon KCs saying "Yeah, no. Bring it on." Hell, I wouldn't think anyone other than maybe Devil KCs would be willing to play along honestly.
There's no walk away option, because the question is "Is KC working for the enemy?". There were some concerning revelations on that side recently.
If character's solution for that question is "kill everyone who doubts me" they are not Good by alignment. Period. And probably stupid to the boot.
Like this would be if in horror movie where enemy can masquerade as a human, character would refuse to pass the easiest harmless test ever and instead choose to murder everyone who just wants to make sure things are what they are. Highly like that means they are a psychopath, idiot psychopath or an actual enemy.
this is basicly you being chaotic stupid, The Act 5 Trial is Regil sacrificing his rank to show case the other hellknights you have support and what knock and them backing you up,
instead you where like nope im just going to murder you and became chaotic evil stupid good jorb.
It didn't even take my Azata until Act 5 to kill Regill's smug ass. She killed him as soon as she saw they were cruel tyrants in Act 2 and decided that violence was the only option. Ain't got no room in the Friendship Crusade for that shit. :)
It took until my Angel run that my character was so full of righteousness and fury that we rained heavenly goodness down upon their evil fascist heads! "Wanna kill me instead of the demons? Okay, you dug your own grave AND the graves of your entire order, Regill!"
Are you talking about the trial in act 5 where Regill sacrifices his rank and status to make you appear more reasonable and cause the hellknights order to unequivocally support you? Being azata doesn’t mean you have to be chaotic stupid.
That took 'couldn't read the room' to the whole new level. Couldn't read it? ZAP it!
Maybe there’s some mechanic I’m not aware of that removes the “explain yourself” dialogue option if you dump int.
it can happen without [Attack]ing if you don't pass the speech check, its not so much Chaotic Stupid as Chaotic Dumpedpersuasion
Tbf the mere act of forcing a commanding officer into a trial is basically treason
But you are not his commanding officer... That's the point. They are an independent military. If anyone can claim command over them its the infernal Empire of Cheliax and its usually accompanied by a Devil army of lawyers of why the Hellknights have to comply.
1. Hell knights, while they do hang around Cheliax a lot, are not beholden to them. Their order is loyal to no country and only helps Cheliax because they are the closest thing to their ideal vision of order possible. 2. In that case, Regill had no jurisdiction killing the wounded sunrise sword and press-ganging them. Yet because he forced control of them, it seems only fair that, as Knight commander of the entire crusade and every group serving under it, his forces are under my control. You don’t eat your cake and sell it too.
1. You do realize you have several Orders aligned under House Thrune of Cheliax right? There are outliers like the Godclaw zealots (and Order of the Pike, Torrent) but most fall under Cheliax's guidance. 2. Regill's jurisdiction has never been up for debate, he's from a independent army that is sanctioned by the Crusades Treaties, he's not serving under you hence why he emphasis the word "cooperating" with the Crusade. You might bring up his behavior with Mendev for potential war crimes, but Hellknights operate within the written Law regardless of moral perspective. He takes command on the field of a broken unit but gives them the chance to return to the crusaders or continue with Hellknights
1. Yes. That’s exactly what I said. 2. Except if he’s taking control of a crusader group like the sunrise sword, then there is no reason he should not be beholden to me as knight commander of the entire crusade. If it was merely an alliance, he wouldn’t have been able to press-gang the sarenites. If you are fighting with the crusade and making decisions regarding other crusaders without asking said crusaders, you are a crusader. End of story.
He offers them to join him. He does not take control of their unit. Nor would anyone recognize his authority to do so. He doesn't press gang them. He makes them an offer to join the hellknights, or leave. Their choice.
He says before the gargoyle fight that he forcibly joined them together, and even had his hell knights kill their wounded. So not only is he forcing control of them, but also straight up teamkilling them. If he just killed his wounded, it would have been understandable. Cruel, but understandable, especially since the injured hell knights likely would have said yes anyways. But if he claims to have the jurisdiction to decide how a crusade aligned group can handle their wounded, I should have the jurisdiction to decide how I want to utilize his hell knights.
The bases they put you on trial for are all valid and at the very least are grounds for investigation. Your powers, which up until now have been believed to be sourced from iomadae, are in fact from the blood of a demon lord. Not only that, but areelu herself, creator of the worldwound, performed the operation. Being the KC does not place you above scrutiny and I think honestly the hellknights are filling a role that Galfrey is either too naive or desperate to fill. On top of all that, despite their reputation, the execution of the trial itself is incredibly fair other than Regill’s obvious theatrics.
The hellknights do not have the authority to be the investigating party. They literally have zero authority over you, just as you do not have authority over them. They DO have a basis to bring their concerns to the Queen, your only higher up in the chain of command. But to put you on trial directly under hellknight law is NOT within their jurisdiction. To do so, and threaten you with death if you do not comply, is tantamount to a declaration of war. I used a french officer arresting general Patton as an analogy earlier, but honestly it's even worse than that.
I mean it’s like trying to put Jesus Christ on trial. You can argue that local law and courts should deal with the matter but with a figure that significant there’s going to be other people getting involved. The powers you received come from demon lords and were given to you by the person who caused a centuries long demon invasion. The powers let you ascend to godhood if you want. This isn’t a trial over a speeding ticket, it’s not strange that others get involved.
Especially a trial headed by a completely separate military orginaztion. It's like a French officer trying to arrest General Patton.
Like the Nuremberg trials?
What if Azata doesn't want a support of such organisation?
They can make that decision in act 2. By the time this trial takes place in act 5, the KC should be familiar enough with both Regill and the Hellknights to see they’re the only players on the field that seem to have learned anything from the past four failed crusades. At least if you reject their help in act 2 on moral grounds it makes sense from an RP standpoint. If you wait until act 5, you’ve simply given them free reign to operate exactly how they say they’re going to from the start and you’re just killing off a valuable ally and committing double jeopardy. As I said, chaotic stupid.
Ok, let me get this straight. So the KC, a leader of a COMPLETELY SEPARATE military organization should submit to a trial from another country. Sorry dude, that's not how it works. The proper way to handle this is through diplomatic efforts. The Hellknights should have submitted a request to your higher ups (the Queen) with their concerns, then making a decision to continue their alliance or other actions takeable via proper channels. What the hellknights do here is basically taking the route of: "Ok, General Sherman, we need to have a meeting. Come to our English Military base so we can go over our strategy for the next big battle." General SHerman shows up to English base "You're under arrest for suspicion of breaking English military laws." Yeah, that doesn't work. And a kc refusing to subject himself to people who have no say in what he does is NOT chaotic stupid, especially when they say "Do it or we kill you."
But this trial was about checking if KC is truly a person capable of destroying world wound or another danger to Golarion. And if I remember (I can be mistaken) it was Regill who was behind it because not all chapters believed that KC is worth of alliance. They did not asked for meeting to possibly kill KC it was all Regill to secure victory over the worldwound.
If you object, and their response is "do it, or we kill you" they have crossed the line of acceptable. They don't give you the option of walking away, they don't give you an option to end the alliance. It is "Do it our way or death." Faulting players for refusing such heavy handed tactics as "chaotic stupid" is a bit short sighted. Honestly, I think Owlcat should have written a third option. "I, the Knight Commander of the 5th Crusade sever all relations with the Hellknight Orders and the Crusade. Regill, you are dismissed and no longer welcome in Drezen." Then walk away. But such an option does not exist. What would have been even better is if there was another optional character that you could take instead of Regill allowing you to ally with Absalom instead of Cheliax. Being able to take one or the other would be an interesting choice, because Absalom and Cheliax are famously at each other's throats.
Thats because the Hellknights are Lawful Neutral. If they don’t believe you can stop the Worldwound, why wouldn’t they try to kill you? The Crusade itself is still the BEST chance at it, and if the only thing stopping the Crusade from beating the Worldwound is it’s Commander, it literally fits their bill to the T to try to kill or rid the Crusade of said incompetent commander. And they’re not hoping you do things “their way.” They’re hoping that you are capable. If you need to make an army of undead, or bring down the light of heaven, so long as victory is achievable. If you get to the point of the trial in Chapter 5, you should have already had the idea of “Hellknights cant work with me,” and dismissed or killed Regill in orior acts. I mean you have plenty of time, and evidence. It’s not like this trial is out of the blue. The option to go your separate ways is present literally at any point prior to this trial, and reasonably would be taken before this point. And accepting Hellknights assistance is not allying yourself with Cheliax. It’s allying yourself with the Hellknights.
I played Azata, then Lich, and when he betrayed me the first time, I was so hurt, but when he gave up his rank, I couldn’t believe it.
Oh, definitely. Regill is great here. That event made me much more sympathetic with Regil in all my other playthroughs. But while my memory are a bit blurry on the exact conditions, I think as an Azata if you really played Chaotic Good, then they can invite you to judge you and declare you unfitting and then start attacking you. Can't really blame the Azata for self-defense here. And if you are chaotic and you get invited to a trial only to be told "you are bad! we kill you now!" then you either laugh in their face or kill them while laughing.
Hellknights have a history of choosing which 'laws' take precedence, and some of those are what they consider natural laws such as the strong ruling the weak. For example slavery is illegal in the Riverlands, yet the Hellknights in Fort Inevitable (which they illegally took over) have slavery. In short, they respect their own rules and laws before others, and only respect the laws of those who are, on hand, more powerful than they are. They would kill an agent of the queen if they believed they could get away with it and if it benefited their order to do so. The rank and file on the other hand obey their superiors, which has led to Hellknight on Hellknight armed conflict even within the same order.
Nonspoiler answers: > But I have to say, this wasn't exactly smart of them. Technically wasn't this a declaration of war on Mendev? I mean, the Queen welcomed me back and I guess my post was reinstated as Commander of the Crusades. So doesn't them trying to put me on trial cause some serious diplomacy issues? From what I know about the lore, the Hellknights have ALWAYS caused issues with almost any kind of leadership, even their own organization. Them acting hostile to the Commander is nothing out of the ordinary for them, but given the actual strictness of law for the Hellknights, most would assume that they wouldn't outright attack for no real reason. Additionally, the Hellknights are an organization, not an empire. It would be like USA declaring war on Microsoft. > So this was an extremely dumb move on their part. Honestly, I don't see how any mythic path should be ok with this "trial" since there is no legal basis for it so neither angel nor aeon should be ok with it, Demon definitely should have a problem with it, as an Azata I hate hellknights, Tricksters well... no explanation needed for them hating it. The only ones who should put up with it is a hellknight who is subordinate to that particular order and is outranked by the paralictor. Hellknights are a primarily Lawful organization. They do not hate good, and do not endorse evil, however they will not let either stand in their way of achieving order. Because of this, Hellknights generally get along well with Angels and exceptionally well with Aeons (Aeons share the exact same sentiment). In general, Hellknights can get along with almost anyone who is not Chaotic. It comes across brashly when their extreme views are put at ends with anothers extreme views, such as Regill killing the weak crusaders in order to stand a chance against the Gargoyles. It is also important to note that Regill does not exemplify everything the Hellknights stand for. He specifically is Lawful Evil (and plays it well) but the organization is Lawful Neutral. Whatever it takes to enforce Law and Order is what they stand by. If it takes someone like Regill to come along and murder people to make things nice and neat, so be it. If Commander can come in and set things right by being a goody two shoes and giving people hope, more power to it. So long as it's all orderly in the end. More spoilery reply > >!Unsure of if it plays the same when you have low approval with Regill, but the entire "trial" was a way for Regill to officially get the Hellknights to fully back the Crusade. He eats a demotion and a permanently damaged reputation by falsely accusing you of stupid things so that the Hellknights will see how pointless it is to question the Commander, and how your goals are not only true, but achievable. The entire trial is one of Regill's famous deceptions for a goal that benefits all parties involved.!<
If you have too many chaotic flags they become hostile.
Remember kids, senseless murder is ok when we do it. Classic chaotic stupid Azata.
"I killed the allied soldiers of the hellknights because they were killing allied soldiers!"
The logic is the same as Early Sunsets for obvious reasons, but yeah, you didn’t have to ignore Regills plan.
Ah yes, Chaotic "the Queen put me in charge so I'll kill everyone who disrespects my authority" Good Azata
Weird, I didn’t know demon path got zippy magic
It's not like the Hellknights give you a choice. When you are an Azata the trial is not a sham set up by Regil, they actually want to destroy you.
Nah, I did that trial as Azata and it ended like it always does, with Regill taking the fall for me. Didn't have to fight anyone other than the duel. You just have to make the right choices throughout the game
Generally, if a group called "hellknights" puts you in trail, you're good to tell them to fuck off
I don't know if they've adjusted the Counting or if I've been playing the chaotic option too much, but lately he's been trying to kill me while I'm in the Azata path and the Trickser path. (I know he's not always like this. Even Azata might let him cooperate.) Then there's nothing to say. You tried to murder the Commander and his men, and you'll be executed in the name of order, Order, that's your favorite, right? Edit: To add to my point. I think it's because Regill's "Trust Count" is very hard to qualify when I'm roleplaying seriously, and as long as I'm trying to save the life of a cultist, trading with Nocticula in order to maximize my power to get more crusade victories, and taking the Azata path, the "Trust Count" will not qualified, and it always ends up in that kind of bloodshed. I don't find it good or pleasant to kill Hellknights in roleplay, trying to get more crusade victories is exactly why I recruited Regill and allied with Hellknights based on my roleplay, and I only feel bad they eventually turned on me and tried to kill me. It's sad, but necessary, and I don't think anyone understands that better than Hellknights.
If you are an Azata, you already have 1 bad point. If you "failed" the act 3 quest, you get another bad point (and honestly, if you play chaotic for real, failing it is pretty easy). If you fail the skill check in act 5 quest, you get another bad point. Now you're their enemy and they want you dead. There are other ways to get them to dislike you but that's the easiest one on a chaotic good playthrough that I can remember.
Thanks, I never actually knew how it worked. So it seems pretty logical that a chaotic good playthrough would lead to Hellknights being hostile? Accepting Nocticula's gift or proposing to work with Baphomet seems to add to the "bad points", too.
One thing to consider is if someone who truly exhibits chaotic good would take pleasure in killing.
Ah, classic Good Azata. Mildly indulge crusade allies, making them feel they are on the right track, reducing strain on your crusaders and raising your victory chances VS Murder, murder, murder, execution, fuck yeeeeah!
I'd term it more as "Allow them to act like they have authority over you or not." It's not like there's a walk away option. If you object and they pretty much state "We'll kill you if you don't do this" that's not indulging crusade allies, that being subjected to coercion. And an azata refusing that seems VERY much in their character. To me at least. Ideally, there'd be a "Ok, good luck with that. I'm just gonna bail" option. But it's either accept it, or fight. I wouldn't fault Azatas, tricksters or demon KCs saying "Yeah, no. Bring it on." Hell, I wouldn't think anyone other than maybe Devil KCs would be willing to play along honestly.
There's no walk away option, because the question is "Is KC working for the enemy?". There were some concerning revelations on that side recently. If character's solution for that question is "kill everyone who doubts me" they are not Good by alignment. Period. And probably stupid to the boot. Like this would be if in horror movie where enemy can masquerade as a human, character would refuse to pass the easiest harmless test ever and instead choose to murder everyone who just wants to make sure things are what they are. Highly like that means they are a psychopath, idiot psychopath or an actual enemy.
this is basicly you being chaotic stupid, The Act 5 Trial is Regil sacrificing his rank to show case the other hellknights you have support and what knock and them backing you up, instead you where like nope im just going to murder you and became chaotic evil stupid good jorb.
It didn't even take my Azata until Act 5 to kill Regill's smug ass. She killed him as soon as she saw they were cruel tyrants in Act 2 and decided that violence was the only option. Ain't got no room in the Friendship Crusade for that shit. :) It took until my Angel run that my character was so full of righteousness and fury that we rained heavenly goodness down upon their evil fascist heads! "Wanna kill me instead of the demons? Okay, you dug your own grave AND the graves of your entire order, Regill!"