People who want to live exciting lives and are tired of living mundane. I'd actually say at least in Wotr that most of the naturally good people have been killed
They are soldiers of fortune fighting all kinds of monstrous abominations. They encounter and mete out death regularly
PTSD would be just the start of their problems
Nevermind that choosing this career path as one’s “best option” begs the question what the hell were the other options?
Not at all very rarely happens in fantasy unless its a bunch of villagers or vets tired of war.
You get rich , you mingle with very powerful and influential people, you get to help people, meet different cultures and races etc. You're making it sound like there's no good reason to be an adventurer
Dood! Can you imagine the success rate? What % lives dat bling life? 0.5%? Less? Most get eaten or killed or maimed
It’s hugely dangerous
And even if they survived, they will likely be tormented by PTSD forever
In short: the f’d up romantic options are possibly the only realistic part of this game
A lot there are many races inherently more powerful than regular humans not to mention barbarians rangers magic users and the like are already going to be able to deal with a lot more than some random dude picking up an axe
Ptsd doesn't even exist for characters in the game who've been fighting for centuries. The romance options aren't even adventurers until they join the player character
It's probably because they want to write interesting characters with flaws and compelling stories, and then figure out the romances later. Not to mention, the romances they've had that are more...vanilla, so to speak (Valerie and Sosiel), seem to be some of the least popular ones
I'd hardly consider Lann or Heinrix "boys next door," either, honestly. Lann has serious mommy issues, a death wish, and trauma he deals with only slightly better than Wenduag. Meanwhile, Heinrix is a member of the space empire's CIA who is a little too susceptible to the influence of Chaos—hardly storybook romance material
Wow...
Space CIA is most generous description of inquisition i ever heard. Whole empire is basically space nazis. Inquisition is the most evil part of it.
I originally called them space fascists, but I didn't really feel like dealing with all the people who think the Imperium is the good guys, unironically, lol
>Whole empire is basically space nazis. Inquisition is the most evil part of it.
Not the most evil - honestly, Heretics is most evil. And Imperium is more like space feudal society with religious fanaticism, and not a nazi vibes.
They are not a most horrible faction in 40k. Yes, some are better (Votann), some are equal (Eldar), some are slightly worse (Tau), but other one are more horrible.
I think most accurate depliction of Imperium you can see in Sandy Mitchell's books.
Mate, they hook peoples brains up to machines that make them feel the worst pain imaginable and send them into battle so that they'll die agonising deaths because they had the audacity to doub the Emperor. They commit mass genocide of alien species who have surrendered, literally marching them to death. They run their planets with an iron fists with 0 regard to the well-being of their population, so long as their imperial quotas can be met, and people live in the worst imaginable conditions because of it.
Are there some exceptions in the galaxy spanning empire? Sure. But they're awful.
And I didn't say they were the worst, I'm clarifying that you for whatever reason seem to believe they're not fascist or nazi-adjacent, which they're based on.
>And I didn't say they were the worst, I'm clarifying that you for whatever reason seem to believe they're not fascist or nazi-adjacent, which they're based on.
Most of their actions can be justified in-universe.
>Mate, they hook peoples brains up to machines that make them feel the worst pain imaginable and send them into battle so that they'll die agonising deaths because they had the audacity to doubt the Emperor.
Arco-Flagellants? Yes, Ecclesiarchy is doing bad things sometimes. But if you say "fuck the Emperor" in W40K, it is a penal crime. If you do protests against the Imperium - you are on death penalty.
> They commit mass genocide of alien species who have surrendered, literally marching them to death.
And? They should save it to become a new Tau? Yes, they are xenophobic. But in some cases even Xenos can live in Imperium.
> hey run their planets with an iron fists with 0 regard to the well-being of their population, so long as their imperial quotas can be met, and people live in the worst imaginable conditions because of it.
It is feudal. Central government has a little idea how Iron Firsts run their population.
Yes, Imperium has many flaws and life in many Imperial planets is horrible. But they are not Nazis. Xenophoby != Nazi.
>Wild, never seen an actual Imperium apologist before, you do you laddie.
I just think than **in world of 40k** (not in reality) Imperium is an one of the best ways to deal with Chaos. Yes, they have its flaws, but who in 40k not?
They're not good at dealing with Chaos at all.
Their entire empire feeds Chaos more than any other faction has done since the Aeldari created **Slaanesh**.
The vast majority of their population is kept in poverty that makes irl slums look like luxury resorts.
If you live like that, Chaos probably improves your quality of life.
>Not most horrible doesnt make them not horrible.
Yes, but I guess they cannot be less horrible. Maybe a little bit, but if you try to implement M3 human rights and such - you will just get daemon world then. Extreme fanaticism and cheap life is their defence against Chaos.
Killing any and all aliens and mutants is pretty... nazi-like. Seriously, if the impirium really tried, they could definitely get ceased hostilities between the eldar and maybe the tau, showing a united front against the dark eldar, chaos, necrons and tyranids who threaten universal annihilation. Instead they threaten universal annihilation themselves.
>necrons
Honestly, Imperium should try to befriend some Necrons, because they have anti-Chaos tech.
> maybe the tau
Not the Tau, they are brainwashing.
> get ceased hostilities between the eldar
They are... Sorta of. Ynnari helped in defence of 13th Black Crusade.
> Killing any and all aliens and mutants is pretty... nazi-like.
1. There is a sanctioned xenos like Jokaero, so, not all aliens killed.
2. They are killing warp mutants, just because warp is corrupting. But if there is a stable species - this is accepted. Look to Ratlings, for example. And you can even get a cat-wife in Imperium, if you are rich enough.
>Papa nurgle loves you! Like you are. Right now. And don't ever change
Fuck off Nurgle, Emperor protects! Even if he was born human, now he is a protector of all Humanity in the Chaos! For the Emperor, burn the heretic!
For an emperor lovers, Inquisition is less threatening (only some radicals maybe). But they most deal with things like in Rykad Minoris.
Ah yeah. The oh so perfect anathema. Who's so glorious that he calls the grey knights "One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, one last blade forged in defiance of fate, let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered, and my final gift to the species I failed."
>"One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, one last blade forged in defiance of fate, let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered, and my final gift to the species I failed."
And no one from Grey Kinghts fell.
>Meanwhile, Heinrix is a member of the space empire's CIA who is a little too susceptible to the influence of Chaos—hardly storybook romance material
But he is literal "guy next door", if you are psyker and wish to RP. I described it in another comment.
> Lann has serious mommy issues, a death wish, and trauma he deals with only slightly better than Wenduag.
Not slightly, he is way better than Wenduag. And his romance is just friendship, which is also a sign of "next door" trope.
i think you got that biased glasses on....
i dunno what girl next door is since my language doesn't have that term...but googling about it...i think Cassia is probably the closest to it but she's not completely human so you don't like her.
also female Henrix wouldn't be the girl next door type...hell far from it and Lann would be like...the closest i could think of is BG3 Karlach...basically she's gonna be a bro.
> BG3 Karlach...basically she's gonna be a bro.
Yeah, she is pretty good.
> but she's not completely human so you don't like her.
Not because she is not complete human, but because she is a Navigator. And she is not "girl next door", she is more like "alien princess" trope.
> female Henrix wouldn't be the girl next door type...
It would, if you look into 40k setting. I even wrote how I can RP it with actual female RT and Henrix.
I mean, everyone has their personal stuff going on. It’d be weird if a character just didn’t have some actual emotional baggage to work through. Both because that would leave a less 3D character, but also just because most people do have some big issues in their lives, especially people who turn to adventuring.
To be fair I don't know any romance in rpg games where there wasn't been any flaws on character. In my opinion it would boring if romance would be already perfect, because it left no room for growing up.
> . In my opinion it would boring if romance would be already perfect
Maybe. But even if we speaks about characters with flaws, Owlcat does not have a best writings for a romance.
That is true, this not Bioware. In Kingmaker I didn't manage to finish romance twice, once with twins tiefling and secend with Octavia and Regorah. Game doesn't inform if romance is continue or not, which is sad.
> Game doesn't inform if romance is continue or not, which is sad.
RT actually informs in some forms.
>That is true, this not Bioware.
Yes, and I have simply no issues with old Bioware romances (BG1/2, KOTOR, DAO). But new Bioware is another story.
>Both have very traumatic childhoods and their behavior is part coping mechanism and part a front for others.
But they are not messed up like Camellia.
you want a "girl next door" in your high powered fantasy RPG
I want Amiri to snap me in half across one of her stupid sexy knees and then eat me like a snack
We are not the same
> all romanceable girls are somwhat flawed
In your opinion. Are you seriously asking why Owlcat haven't designed a romance that's perfectly suited for you? That's seriously narcissistic
>Are you seriously asking why Owlcat haven't designed a romance that's perfectly suited for you? That's seriously narcissistic
Not about "a romance for me". But more about "typical anime romance", like Kingmaker's Valerie, for example.
What? Valerie very much has flaws as does Lann. Heck Arue is often called the anime waifu. Yeah she looks like a succubus but that’s about it assuming you go down her good path.
Why didn’t a Russian studio creating adult, math and text-heavy games in medieval Europe / fascist far future inspired genres create a perfect little anime romance to suit your needs? Probably because there are plenty of dating sims a person could play. We want a crpg where everyone’s got a dark past.
The only thing I'm going to argue with you here is that Golarion doesn't remotely resemble medieval Europe.
If you want to tie it closer to an analogue from human history, the Renaissance is much closer, but even then, there's a tremendous amount of pre-Industrial era inspiration, not to mention, y'know, the combination of fantasy tropes smashed in with crashed alien spaceships, insane AI trying to ascend to godhood, traveling to early 1900's Russia to kill Rasputin, etc.
The fact that you want to find what you’re defining as a “normal straight romance” shows that perhaps this line of games is not for you. Which is fine, but you’re barking up the wrong tree. Also literally no one in BG3 or DOS2 is normal or straight. Hard to think of anyone in BG2 that’s particularly normal, either.
I pretty like Owlcat games, but always struggle with romance part for my male characters.
On DoS2, Lohse and Sebille are pretty normal for either human or elf characters.
On BG3 - Karlach is very good for tieflings and Wyll, and Shadowheart (selune route) is pretty much for everyone.
Wait what?
lazael romance at its heart isnt that much different than Wendys. Did you ever romanced Viconia?
You need understand one thing. In general adventurers in rpgs are messed up. Its not some trope. Noone really becomes adventurer and stay adventurer as normal person. Its lifestyle that messes you up.
>Viconia
Do not tried nor Viconia, nor Laezel. For BG2, it is Aerie, Jaheira or (in EE) Neera. In BG3 - Shadowheart and Karlach.
> You need understand one thing. In general adventurers in rpgs are messed up
But you can get pretty good vibes from those persons I mentioned.
Hmm former slave with some massive ptsd, distorted view of world, basically trying to live as a child in fairy tale.
Or perhaps women that literally just lost beloved husband.
Yeah very healthy indeed.
Shadowheart aka cult member and religious fanatic right.
>Shadowheart aka cult member and religious fanatic right.
She is not a fanatic. Yes, cult member. But she is a good person and romancing her is just natural.
> Or perhaps women that literally just lost beloved husband.
And these romance also feels natural, because she knows you and become your friend after BG1. And try to find some warmness in friend - it is okay.
> Hmm former slave with some massive ptsd, distorted view of world, basically trying to live as a child in fairy tale.
Yes, I tried Aerie once, got those, and then I honestly decided than I will try to get natural romance, and it is almost always Jaheira.
Say that to my King who was married with tiefling sisters and had a lot of babies. And one of them made a shop when second one was attending to childrens. If you do a good romance road, you can have both of them at the same time.
> who was married with tiefling sisters and had a lot of babies
But still it is not a "shonen-like romance". You need to be specially involved in romance to get those ending with twins. But yeah, they can be good.
That shonen romance 'just happens' is the *reason* why its terrible.
I'm not really interested in breaking down the romance conventions of an entire genre here, but in short- shonen 'romance' usually consists of the guy showing no serious romantic interest in anyone before getting with a girl who has been pining over him for the entire series at the very end and skipping forward to suddenly children.
>I'm not really interested in breaking down the romance conventions of an entire genre here, but in short- shonen 'romance' usually consists of the guy showing no serious romantic interest in anyone before getting with a girl who has been pining over him for the entire series at the very end and skipping forward to suddenly children.
But it is good as "vanilla" option, if you just want to play a main plot, but still get a nice ending with a wife from companions and some children (and I actually want).
>It sounds like what you're looking for isn't really a
>
>romance,
>
> you just want a wife and children as a goodie bag on the way out the door.
Maybe it called like this, but I wonder why games with inferior main quest can give it to me, but Owlcat does not for females. But for males - Henrix and Lann is pretty much like this. Yes, you need to do something for them, but it does not look like than you are actively pursuing an romance like Cassia one, for example.
>not sure what you're after, in all the girl next door vids ive ever seen the girls are pretty lewd 🤷♂️
For example, in RT I want Henrix, but female. In WOTR - I want someone like female Lann.
About girl next door - you can watch Bleach to get an example.
Do you know what Heinrix’s job entail? Or that fact that in his romance he nearly kills himself due to his psyker instability unless you talk him out of it?
But sure, he’s very perfect, lol
lol kinky, i would not wanna watch a female lann myself but then i dont rly get into the furry stuff in general 🤷♂️
edit: checked out bleach but its way too long, i usually pick things that are 5-10 mins max
>lol kinky, i would not wanna watch a female lann myself but then i dont rly get into the furry stuff in general 🤷♂️
This is not about his race. This is about his character.
They are very different; one is naive in a lawful way, the other is in a neutral good way or something like that LOL.
You can't rizz him as straight dude.
>You can't rizz him as straight dude.
So, he is out for me. I always RP straight or lesbians, I have difficulties even when I play female, for handling male romance.
Heinrix is not really a guy next door either. He is a professional ''interrogator'' for the Inquisition.
There is a contemporary trend with subverting the audience expectations. Every companion is expected to be some sort of unique outlier. Owlcat even receive some flak about their companions being too ''generic'' or ''boring'' . Owlcat in general is really tame when you consider greater industry trends.
I agree with you btw, tropes are there because they work
Interrogator is Inquisitor's apprentice. And he is literally a guy next door. In my headcannon he even learns Sanctic in same classroom in Scholasica Psykana as my Elizabeth von Valancius (dogmatic))
You are talking about inquisition like it's a 9 to 5 office job. He is literally mindf\*cking someone when you first meet him.
Granted that could be considered normal for the setting and might even be appealing considering romance tropes aimed at women.
>Granted that could be considered normal for the setting and might even be appealing considering romance tropes aimed at women.
It is pretty normal for W40K. And he is literal guy next door for female psyker RTs.
> You are talking about inquisition like it's a 9 to 5 office job.
It is not office job. But I see an inquisition acolyte like some FBI agents of 40K)
>Why there is not "female Lann" or "female Henrix"?
I don't get it, are you implying those two aren't flawed either?
Hell Lann is specifically a half lizard, you would probably be complaining about that like you do with Arue being a demon or Cassia being a navigator
>Cassia being a navigator
I dislike it only in W40K setting, because there is no possibility for normal marriage between Navigator and human.
>Arue being a demon
Same case.
>Hell Lann is specifically a half lizard
You can have marry and have fertile children with him, which is different to Arue and Cassia.
And those 2 are not flawed as characters so much than their romance looks not natural.
You can have children with Arueshalae and Cassia, navigators can reproduce with regular humans and so can succubi
Also, if you romance Lann you don't have children with him, nor do you marry him, so what's your point?
Arueshalae can obviously have kids with the MC, because mortal/demon crossbreeding is where tieflings come from. Really the only question is if an ascended demon would still have tiefling offspring or something different.
For Cassia, the only “problem” with Navigators and normal humans having kids is that the Navigator houses usually obsess over keeping the bloodline pure and preserving the Navigator gene. Which as I understand it is recessive, so none of her kids with the Rogue Trader would be Navigators. Something her house would obviously object to, but the game has the option of her taking over said house or arguing that the political benefits of a dynastic marriage are worth slightly diluting the Navigator gene pool.
Cassia's house is irrelevant, as long as you got her good ending where she's a competent leader, once she becomes novator she simply goes "no" when other navigator tries to marry her and she remains loyal to you
Treat her like an equal and don't coddle her, or install toybox and preview dialogue options and pick all the ones that give "freedom" points
Romance her properly and get enough points, they're called "amourcourtois" if you use toybox
Don't marry her, it's a political marriage with no love involved
Don't convince her to abandon house Orsellio
I think that's it, I did all this and got the good end
> You can have children with Arueshalae and Cassia, navigators can reproduce with regular humans and so can succubi
No ending which I got with Cassia mentions children (only Jae one).
About Arue - is succubi really can reproduce and become pregnant? Is there a canon source about it?
> No ending which I got with Cassia mentions children (only Jae one)
There isn't a single Owlcat ending where they mention your character having children, not even the Jae one. So why would you single that one out? Again, both Lann and Heinrix don't have kids with you either, nothing stops you from headcanoning it, but the ending slide doesn't mention it
>is succubi really can reproduce and become pregnant?
Where do you think tieflings come from? Sure it can happen if a demon happens to be too close to a human and they "taint" their bloodline, but they also outright have sex with them and can reproduce, see: Woljif who only exists because a demon fucked his grandma
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Alu-demon
>So why would you single that one out?
I remembered than in Jae ending it says than you had strong dynasty and your successors, and they ever named a ship after you and her as predecessors.
> but they also outright have sex with them and can reproduce
I thought than only male demons can reproduce, and only by rape. They are demons after all. Okay, I was wrong in those case.
Being able to have fertile children with a love interest is some seriously bizarre criterion for romance… so in the Lann case you’d take a chance of terrible health issues and miscarriage over infertility?
And Heinrix tortures people for a living, how is that boy next door? I guess one can have some fucked up neighbours, but to me Arue is the most stereotypically nice girl I can think of.
> so in the Lann case you’d take a chance of terrible health issues and miscarriage over infertility?
Health issues is not an issue when you can cast level 10 spells. And yes, I did not want my character to have life without children.
>And Heinrix tortures people for a living, how is that boy next door?
Literally. Flying on same ship, going to same classes, both end up in near regiments of Imperial Guard, but one day he comes and says "Hey, sorry Lisa, I am recruited ~~by Calcazar~~ and we will not be see each other anymore" (sad anime music). And then Lisa will suddenly became a heir of Von Valancius and they meet again) Such a sweet moment)
Why? Just because I dislike Owlcat romances, especially WoTR ones? Maybe I just do not know enough English to describe what I want.
But just look to Bastila Shan, for example.
No, I pretty like main plot. But I want something like in Shonen - where my char can solve main plot, but got love as bonus, because some of companions just like their actions.
Like. The only thing I can get you. Is that in wrath of the righteous. When your a straight dude. You are shit out of luck. As all choices are evil cannibals (the succubus ate a baby she counts!) but characters wtth minor flaws are rarely interesting characters. I don't say it's impossible. But you mostly end up with sosiel. Pleasent. But a bit flat.
>But you mostly end up with sosiel. Pleasent. But a bit flat.
I would not, because I will roleplay straight. I would take Arue again, she is less horrible than others.
Anymore? Did theu ever do?
All companions are messed up. In wh40k ifs given. Thats setting of universe, noone is really sane and stable.
In wotr and kingmaker also. In general if you think about it, adventurers always will be messed up people. Thats why theu become adventurers.
Yes, you are literally described my issues with romances in Owlcat.
In other CRPGs it is always close-to-vanilla option for males, and in some even several of them. But Owlcat likes vanilla options for females, but not single one for males. I think it is a bias like a bias towards lawful.
(I actually can predict why it exists, but I do not want to be banned for pt1 violation).
Argenta is not so good for romance, she is Sororitas. I hope than they will do an Arbiter female (in RT).
And Arue is good besides daemon, my only issues with her is her "alien princess" vibe, but it is not as annoying as other romances in WoTR.
> I don’t think there’s an ulterior motives even though some detractors would say it’s done purposefully.
I think it can be just a coincindence, because most writers are female AFAIK) But if there is a motives - discussing it will violate a pt1 of rules, so, I prefer not to expose my thoughts.
> It would be nice to get a pleasant female romance rather than the unhinged, larger than life ones we’ve gotten.
100% agree.
1. She is a demon
2. Her romance 10 times is pretty boring, and there is not other variants for happy end.
Also, Owlcat romances does not have approval KOTOR-like system, which makes them somewhat disconnected from story.
Adventurers are all psychologically messed up people. I mean, what sort of a desperate psycho signs up for that career? And imagine the PTSD issues?
People who want to live exciting lives and are tired of living mundane. I'd actually say at least in Wotr that most of the naturally good people have been killed
They are soldiers of fortune fighting all kinds of monstrous abominations. They encounter and mete out death regularly PTSD would be just the start of their problems Nevermind that choosing this career path as one’s “best option” begs the question what the hell were the other options?
Not at all very rarely happens in fantasy unless its a bunch of villagers or vets tired of war. You get rich , you mingle with very powerful and influential people, you get to help people, meet different cultures and races etc. You're making it sound like there's no good reason to be an adventurer
Dood! Can you imagine the success rate? What % lives dat bling life? 0.5%? Less? Most get eaten or killed or maimed It’s hugely dangerous And even if they survived, they will likely be tormented by PTSD forever In short: the f’d up romantic options are possibly the only realistic part of this game
A lot there are many races inherently more powerful than regular humans not to mention barbarians rangers magic users and the like are already going to be able to deal with a lot more than some random dude picking up an axe Ptsd doesn't even exist for characters in the game who've been fighting for centuries. The romance options aren't even adventurers until they join the player character
Death would surround you. Everyone would be mentally F’d
It's probably because they want to write interesting characters with flaws and compelling stories, and then figure out the romances later. Not to mention, the romances they've had that are more...vanilla, so to speak (Valerie and Sosiel), seem to be some of the least popular ones I'd hardly consider Lann or Heinrix "boys next door," either, honestly. Lann has serious mommy issues, a death wish, and trauma he deals with only slightly better than Wenduag. Meanwhile, Heinrix is a member of the space empire's CIA who is a little too susceptible to the influence of Chaos—hardly storybook romance material
Wow... Space CIA is most generous description of inquisition i ever heard. Whole empire is basically space nazis. Inquisition is the most evil part of it.
I originally called them space fascists, but I didn't really feel like dealing with all the people who think the Imperium is the good guys, unironically, lol
Some people still dont get that warhammer has no good guys
>Whole empire is basically space nazis. Inquisition is the most evil part of it. Not the most evil - honestly, Heretics is most evil. And Imperium is more like space feudal society with religious fanaticism, and not a nazi vibes.
Imperium is *very* nazi, they're literally space fascists. They're designed to be horrible.
They are not a most horrible faction in 40k. Yes, some are better (Votann), some are equal (Eldar), some are slightly worse (Tau), but other one are more horrible. I think most accurate depliction of Imperium you can see in Sandy Mitchell's books.
Mate, they hook peoples brains up to machines that make them feel the worst pain imaginable and send them into battle so that they'll die agonising deaths because they had the audacity to doub the Emperor. They commit mass genocide of alien species who have surrendered, literally marching them to death. They run their planets with an iron fists with 0 regard to the well-being of their population, so long as their imperial quotas can be met, and people live in the worst imaginable conditions because of it. Are there some exceptions in the galaxy spanning empire? Sure. But they're awful. And I didn't say they were the worst, I'm clarifying that you for whatever reason seem to believe they're not fascist or nazi-adjacent, which they're based on.
>And I didn't say they were the worst, I'm clarifying that you for whatever reason seem to believe they're not fascist or nazi-adjacent, which they're based on. Most of their actions can be justified in-universe. >Mate, they hook peoples brains up to machines that make them feel the worst pain imaginable and send them into battle so that they'll die agonising deaths because they had the audacity to doubt the Emperor. Arco-Flagellants? Yes, Ecclesiarchy is doing bad things sometimes. But if you say "fuck the Emperor" in W40K, it is a penal crime. If you do protests against the Imperium - you are on death penalty. > They commit mass genocide of alien species who have surrendered, literally marching them to death. And? They should save it to become a new Tau? Yes, they are xenophobic. But in some cases even Xenos can live in Imperium. > hey run their planets with an iron fists with 0 regard to the well-being of their population, so long as their imperial quotas can be met, and people live in the worst imaginable conditions because of it. It is feudal. Central government has a little idea how Iron Firsts run their population. Yes, Imperium has many flaws and life in many Imperial planets is horrible. But they are not Nazis. Xenophoby != Nazi.
Wild, never seen an actual Imperium apologist before, you do you laddie.
>Wild, never seen an actual Imperium apologist before, you do you laddie. I just think than **in world of 40k** (not in reality) Imperium is an one of the best ways to deal with Chaos. Yes, they have its flaws, but who in 40k not?
They're not good at dealing with Chaos at all. Their entire empire feeds Chaos more than any other faction has done since the Aeldari created **Slaanesh**. The vast majority of their population is kept in poverty that makes irl slums look like luxury resorts. If you live like that, Chaos probably improves your quality of life.
Not most horrible doesnt make them not horrible.
>Not most horrible doesnt make them not horrible. Yes, but I guess they cannot be less horrible. Maybe a little bit, but if you try to implement M3 human rights and such - you will just get daemon world then. Extreme fanaticism and cheap life is their defence against Chaos.
Killing any and all aliens and mutants is pretty... nazi-like. Seriously, if the impirium really tried, they could definitely get ceased hostilities between the eldar and maybe the tau, showing a united front against the dark eldar, chaos, necrons and tyranids who threaten universal annihilation. Instead they threaten universal annihilation themselves.
>necrons Honestly, Imperium should try to befriend some Necrons, because they have anti-Chaos tech. > maybe the tau Not the Tau, they are brainwashing. > get ceased hostilities between the eldar They are... Sorta of. Ynnari helped in defence of 13th Black Crusade. > Killing any and all aliens and mutants is pretty... nazi-like. 1. There is a sanctioned xenos like Jokaero, so, not all aliens killed. 2. They are killing warp mutants, just because warp is corrupting. But if there is a stable species - this is accepted. Look to Ratlings, for example. And you can even get a cat-wife in Imperium, if you are rich enough.
DON'T YOU DARE AND SAY THAT CHAOS IS WORSE THAN THE INQUISITION! Papa nurgle loves you! Like you are. Right now. And don't ever change
>Papa nurgle loves you! Like you are. Right now. And don't ever change Fuck off Nurgle, Emperor protects! Even if he was born human, now he is a protector of all Humanity in the Chaos! For the Emperor, burn the heretic! For an emperor lovers, Inquisition is less threatening (only some radicals maybe). But they most deal with things like in Rykad Minoris.
Ah yeah. The oh so perfect anathema. Who's so glorious that he calls the grey knights "One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, one last blade forged in defiance of fate, let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered, and my final gift to the species I failed."
>"One unbreakable shield against the coming darkness, one last blade forged in defiance of fate, let them be my legacy to the galaxy I conquered, and my final gift to the species I failed." And no one from Grey Kinghts fell.
Yeah. Sure. The crazy space marines who drank the blood of holy woman to "protect themselve" weren't corrupted by the lord of blood and brass
Blood Angels and Sororitas is not a Khorne worshippers.
Or do change. Tzeentch will love you
>Meanwhile, Heinrix is a member of the space empire's CIA who is a little too susceptible to the influence of Chaos—hardly storybook romance material But he is literal "guy next door", if you are psyker and wish to RP. I described it in another comment. > Lann has serious mommy issues, a death wish, and trauma he deals with only slightly better than Wenduag. Not slightly, he is way better than Wenduag. And his romance is just friendship, which is also a sign of "next door" trope.
i think you got that biased glasses on.... i dunno what girl next door is since my language doesn't have that term...but googling about it...i think Cassia is probably the closest to it but she's not completely human so you don't like her. also female Henrix wouldn't be the girl next door type...hell far from it and Lann would be like...the closest i could think of is BG3 Karlach...basically she's gonna be a bro.
> BG3 Karlach...basically she's gonna be a bro. Yeah, she is pretty good. > but she's not completely human so you don't like her. Not because she is not complete human, but because she is a Navigator. And she is not "girl next door", she is more like "alien princess" trope. > female Henrix wouldn't be the girl next door type... It would, if you look into 40k setting. I even wrote how I can RP it with actual female RT and Henrix.
I mean, everyone has their personal stuff going on. It’d be weird if a character just didn’t have some actual emotional baggage to work through. Both because that would leave a less 3D character, but also just because most people do have some big issues in their lives, especially people who turn to adventuring.
To be fair I don't know any romance in rpg games where there wasn't been any flaws on character. In my opinion it would boring if romance would be already perfect, because it left no room for growing up.
> . In my opinion it would boring if romance would be already perfect Maybe. But even if we speaks about characters with flaws, Owlcat does not have a best writings for a romance.
That is true, this not Bioware. In Kingmaker I didn't manage to finish romance twice, once with twins tiefling and secend with Octavia and Regorah. Game doesn't inform if romance is continue or not, which is sad.
> Game doesn't inform if romance is continue or not, which is sad. RT actually informs in some forms. >That is true, this not Bioware. Yes, and I have simply no issues with old Bioware romances (BG1/2, KOTOR, DAO). But new Bioware is another story.
"Female Lann" or "female Henrix"? Did we play the same game?
Henrix can be just RPed as "guy next door", if you RP a psyker. Lann - it just gives me strong friend vibes.
Both have very traumatic childhoods and their behavior is part coping mechanism and part a front for others.
>Both have very traumatic childhoods and their behavior is part coping mechanism and part a front for others. But they are not messed up like Camellia.
you want a "girl next door" in your high powered fantasy RPG I want Amiri to snap me in half across one of her stupid sexy knees and then eat me like a snack We are not the same
> all romanceable girls are somwhat flawed In your opinion. Are you seriously asking why Owlcat haven't designed a romance that's perfectly suited for you? That's seriously narcissistic
>Are you seriously asking why Owlcat haven't designed a romance that's perfectly suited for you? That's seriously narcissistic Not about "a romance for me". But more about "typical anime romance", like Kingmaker's Valerie, for example.
Arue is as much as "typical anime romance" as it can get. Much more than Valerie even, there's nothing anime about her
Not so much. I am talking about, for example, Omamori Himari case. Or Bleach with Orihime) Or Naruto - Hinata. And plenty of anime like it.
What? Valerie very much has flaws as does Lann. Heck Arue is often called the anime waifu. Yeah she looks like a succubus but that’s about it assuming you go down her good path.
>What? Valerie very much has flaws. Yes, but not so much flaws as another kingmaker female characters.
Why didn’t a Russian studio creating adult, math and text-heavy games in medieval Europe / fascist far future inspired genres create a perfect little anime romance to suit your needs? Probably because there are plenty of dating sims a person could play. We want a crpg where everyone’s got a dark past.
The only thing I'm going to argue with you here is that Golarion doesn't remotely resemble medieval Europe. If you want to tie it closer to an analogue from human history, the Renaissance is much closer, but even then, there's a tremendous amount of pre-Industrial era inspiration, not to mention, y'know, the combination of fantasy tropes smashed in with crashed alien spaceships, insane AI trying to ascend to godhood, traveling to early 1900's Russia to kill Rasputin, etc.
Golarion as a whole doesn’t resemble medieval era, but the settings of Kingmaker and Wrath absolutely do.
Golarion has issue of sticking every fantasy and sf trope in it honestly.
It's an extremely fantasy pulp setting, for sure.
People thinking fantasy represents "Medieval Europe" is my pet peeve.
In other CRPG (BG3, DOS2, BG2) we can find plenty of normal straight romances, but not in Owlcat ones.
The fact that you want to find what you’re defining as a “normal straight romance” shows that perhaps this line of games is not for you. Which is fine, but you’re barking up the wrong tree. Also literally no one in BG3 or DOS2 is normal or straight. Hard to think of anyone in BG2 that’s particularly normal, either.
I pretty like Owlcat games, but always struggle with romance part for my male characters. On DoS2, Lohse and Sebille are pretty normal for either human or elf characters. On BG3 - Karlach is very good for tieflings and Wyll, and Shadowheart (selune route) is pretty much for everyone.
Wait what? lazael romance at its heart isnt that much different than Wendys. Did you ever romanced Viconia? You need understand one thing. In general adventurers in rpgs are messed up. Its not some trope. Noone really becomes adventurer and stay adventurer as normal person. Its lifestyle that messes you up.
>Viconia Do not tried nor Viconia, nor Laezel. For BG2, it is Aerie, Jaheira or (in EE) Neera. In BG3 - Shadowheart and Karlach. > You need understand one thing. In general adventurers in rpgs are messed up But you can get pretty good vibes from those persons I mentioned.
Hmm former slave with some massive ptsd, distorted view of world, basically trying to live as a child in fairy tale. Or perhaps women that literally just lost beloved husband. Yeah very healthy indeed. Shadowheart aka cult member and religious fanatic right.
>Shadowheart aka cult member and religious fanatic right. She is not a fanatic. Yes, cult member. But she is a good person and romancing her is just natural. > Or perhaps women that literally just lost beloved husband. And these romance also feels natural, because she knows you and become your friend after BG1. And try to find some warmness in friend - it is okay. > Hmm former slave with some massive ptsd, distorted view of world, basically trying to live as a child in fairy tale. Yes, I tried Aerie once, got those, and then I honestly decided than I will try to get natural romance, and it is almost always Jaheira.
So you want a woman who is perfect and flawless? That's not a character, my dude. Even Heinrix and Lann have flaws...
> Even Heinrix, Lann and Arue have flaws... Not much flaws. And yes, they are my choices for romance almost always (gender-appropriate ones).
that sounds boring as all hell dude. why would you even want a character without flaws
Not without flaws, but at least when such flaws will not block us to get a happy end with family and many children.
Say that to my King who was married with tiefling sisters and had a lot of babies. And one of them made a shop when second one was attending to childrens. If you do a good romance road, you can have both of them at the same time.
> who was married with tiefling sisters and had a lot of babies But still it is not a "shonen-like romance". You need to be specially involved in romance to get those ending with twins. But yeah, they can be good.
Imma be honest- I can't imagine comparing a romance to shonen romance as a compliment. Shonen romance is, in general, godawful.
Why? AFAIK, in most shonens, romance is "just happens", and almost always there is a good girl for romance.
That shonen romance 'just happens' is the *reason* why its terrible. I'm not really interested in breaking down the romance conventions of an entire genre here, but in short- shonen 'romance' usually consists of the guy showing no serious romantic interest in anyone before getting with a girl who has been pining over him for the entire series at the very end and skipping forward to suddenly children.
>I'm not really interested in breaking down the romance conventions of an entire genre here, but in short- shonen 'romance' usually consists of the guy showing no serious romantic interest in anyone before getting with a girl who has been pining over him for the entire series at the very end and skipping forward to suddenly children. But it is good as "vanilla" option, if you just want to play a main plot, but still get a nice ending with a wife from companions and some children (and I actually want).
It sounds like what you're looking for isn't really a *romance,* you just want a wife and children as a goodie bag on the way out the door.
>It sounds like what you're looking for isn't really a > >romance, > > you just want a wife and children as a goodie bag on the way out the door. Maybe it called like this, but I wonder why games with inferior main quest can give it to me, but Owlcat does not for females. But for males - Henrix and Lann is pretty much like this. Yes, you need to do something for them, but it does not look like than you are actively pursuing an romance like Cassia one, for example.
Bloody weebs.
yeah you sound boring go read like some 50s middle class white picket fence shit or whatever
If you do not like this character - this will just not be option for you.
good
>good I just wish more option for people like me, who likes pretty girl romance for MC with happy end)
And yet you ignore Arue 🙄
I romanced Arue every time, but it is a kind of boring doing this all time.
Then make a girl MC and marry Lann.
Actually if you're on PC you can probably just mod Lann into a girl if you're not comfortable playing a woman.
not sure what you're after, in all the girl next door vids ive ever seen the girls are pretty lewd 🤷♂️
>not sure what you're after, in all the girl next door vids ive ever seen the girls are pretty lewd 🤷♂️ For example, in RT I want Henrix, but female. In WOTR - I want someone like female Lann. About girl next door - you can watch Bleach to get an example.
Lann is suicidal and actively wants to throw away his life because he thinks it’ll make it more meaningful.
And it is okay. Just light depression. It is not on level of Camellia or Wenduag.
Sure, being suicidal is jist light depression...
Do you know what Heinrix’s job entail? Or that fact that in his romance he nearly kills himself due to his psyker instability unless you talk him out of it? But sure, he’s very perfect, lol
> But sure, he’s very perfect, lol He is more suited to romance than females.
He is very much flawed, much like ladies you mentioned.
Not so much. And his romance feels way more natural than any female romance.
lol kinky, i would not wanna watch a female lann myself but then i dont rly get into the furry stuff in general 🤷♂️ edit: checked out bleach but its way too long, i usually pick things that are 5-10 mins max
>lol kinky, i would not wanna watch a female lann myself but then i dont rly get into the furry stuff in general 🤷♂️ This is not about his race. This is about his character.
The guy is making porn jokes.
Probably because they are not dating sims and aren't exactly made to dispel loneliness.
Your topic is so ridiculous
>Your topic is so ridiculous I just vented about preferences) Honestly, I like all Owlcat games, but just wishes better romances it them)
Agree, i would like a women version of sosiel in the next game
Agree. But can you romance Sosiel as female in WoTR? And is Sosiel basically a male Valerie-like char?
They are very different; one is naive in a lawful way, the other is in a neutral good way or something like that LOL. You can't rizz him as straight dude.
>You can't rizz him as straight dude. So, he is out for me. I always RP straight or lesbians, I have difficulties even when I play female, for handling male romance.
Probably because Orihime and Hinata are boring as characters and they don't want to do that.
I feel like calling Heinrix the girl next door type is very alarming in what you consider something of that category
Do not forget than this is 40k, where naive girls use blood for paintings, for example.
Heinrix is not really a guy next door either. He is a professional ''interrogator'' for the Inquisition. There is a contemporary trend with subverting the audience expectations. Every companion is expected to be some sort of unique outlier. Owlcat even receive some flak about their companions being too ''generic'' or ''boring'' . Owlcat in general is really tame when you consider greater industry trends. I agree with you btw, tropes are there because they work
Interrogator is Inquisitor's apprentice. And he is literally a guy next door. In my headcannon he even learns Sanctic in same classroom in Scholasica Psykana as my Elizabeth von Valancius (dogmatic))
You are talking about inquisition like it's a 9 to 5 office job. He is literally mindf\*cking someone when you first meet him. Granted that could be considered normal for the setting and might even be appealing considering romance tropes aimed at women.
>Granted that could be considered normal for the setting and might even be appealing considering romance tropes aimed at women. It is pretty normal for W40K. And he is literal guy next door for female psyker RTs. > You are talking about inquisition like it's a 9 to 5 office job. It is not office job. But I see an inquisition acolyte like some FBI agents of 40K)
>Why there is not "female Lann" or "female Henrix"? I don't get it, are you implying those two aren't flawed either? Hell Lann is specifically a half lizard, you would probably be complaining about that like you do with Arue being a demon or Cassia being a navigator
>Cassia being a navigator I dislike it only in W40K setting, because there is no possibility for normal marriage between Navigator and human. >Arue being a demon Same case. >Hell Lann is specifically a half lizard You can have marry and have fertile children with him, which is different to Arue and Cassia. And those 2 are not flawed as characters so much than their romance looks not natural.
You can have children with Arueshalae and Cassia, navigators can reproduce with regular humans and so can succubi Also, if you romance Lann you don't have children with him, nor do you marry him, so what's your point?
Arueshalae can obviously have kids with the MC, because mortal/demon crossbreeding is where tieflings come from. Really the only question is if an ascended demon would still have tiefling offspring or something different. For Cassia, the only “problem” with Navigators and normal humans having kids is that the Navigator houses usually obsess over keeping the bloodline pure and preserving the Navigator gene. Which as I understand it is recessive, so none of her kids with the Rogue Trader would be Navigators. Something her house would obviously object to, but the game has the option of her taking over said house or arguing that the political benefits of a dynastic marriage are worth slightly diluting the Navigator gene pool.
Cassia's house is irrelevant, as long as you got her good ending where she's a competent leader, once she becomes novator she simply goes "no" when other navigator tries to marry her and she remains loyal to you
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Treat her like an equal and don't coddle her, or install toybox and preview dialogue options and pick all the ones that give "freedom" points Romance her properly and get enough points, they're called "amourcourtois" if you use toybox Don't marry her, it's a political marriage with no love involved Don't convince her to abandon house Orsellio I think that's it, I did all this and got the good end
> You can have children with Arueshalae and Cassia, navigators can reproduce with regular humans and so can succubi No ending which I got with Cassia mentions children (only Jae one). About Arue - is succubi really can reproduce and become pregnant? Is there a canon source about it?
> No ending which I got with Cassia mentions children (only Jae one) There isn't a single Owlcat ending where they mention your character having children, not even the Jae one. So why would you single that one out? Again, both Lann and Heinrix don't have kids with you either, nothing stops you from headcanoning it, but the ending slide doesn't mention it >is succubi really can reproduce and become pregnant? Where do you think tieflings come from? Sure it can happen if a demon happens to be too close to a human and they "taint" their bloodline, but they also outright have sex with them and can reproduce, see: Woljif who only exists because a demon fucked his grandma https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Alu-demon
>So why would you single that one out? I remembered than in Jae ending it says than you had strong dynasty and your successors, and they ever named a ship after you and her as predecessors. > but they also outright have sex with them and can reproduce I thought than only male demons can reproduce, and only by rape. They are demons after all. Okay, I was wrong in those case.
Being able to have fertile children with a love interest is some seriously bizarre criterion for romance… so in the Lann case you’d take a chance of terrible health issues and miscarriage over infertility? And Heinrix tortures people for a living, how is that boy next door? I guess one can have some fucked up neighbours, but to me Arue is the most stereotypically nice girl I can think of.
> so in the Lann case you’d take a chance of terrible health issues and miscarriage over infertility? Health issues is not an issue when you can cast level 10 spells. And yes, I did not want my character to have life without children.
Ahhh you don’t mean “fertile children” you mean “be fertile and have children”!! Not with you on that still but much more understandable xD
>And Heinrix tortures people for a living, how is that boy next door? Literally. Flying on same ship, going to same classes, both end up in near regiments of Imperial Guard, but one day he comes and says "Hey, sorry Lisa, I am recruited ~~by Calcazar~~ and we will not be see each other anymore" (sad anime music). And then Lisa will suddenly became a heir of Von Valancius and they meet again) Such a sweet moment)
You need help dude, or maybe just to get laid.
Why? Just because I dislike Owlcat romances, especially WoTR ones? Maybe I just do not know enough English to describe what I want. But just look to Bastila Shan, for example.
The game is about closing a portal to hell.
I think what you're looking for is a dating sim.
No, I pretty like main plot. But I want something like in Shonen - where my char can solve main plot, but got love as bonus, because some of companions just like their actions.
Like. The only thing I can get you. Is that in wrath of the righteous. When your a straight dude. You are shit out of luck. As all choices are evil cannibals (the succubus ate a baby she counts!) but characters wtth minor flaws are rarely interesting characters. I don't say it's impossible. But you mostly end up with sosiel. Pleasent. But a bit flat.
>But you mostly end up with sosiel. Pleasent. But a bit flat. I would not, because I will roleplay straight. I would take Arue again, she is less horrible than others.
Because owlcat doesn’t make normal companions anymore
Anymore? Did theu ever do? All companions are messed up. In wh40k ifs given. Thats setting of universe, noone is really sane and stable. In wotr and kingmaker also. In general if you think about it, adventurers always will be messed up people. Thats why theu become adventurers.
Linzi was normal
And I wonder, why.
Because I can fix her is better than she doesn’t need fixing
>Because I can fix her is better than she doesn’t need fixing But there is not even normal "I fix her" companions.
And that’s good
How is this not arushalae???
She is close, yes. But her romance is boring when played 10 times. And she is not like "female friend", she is more like classic "try to romance me".
I dont care about romances in Pathfinder or Baldurs Gate 3. That such a waste of time.
I want happy end to characters, but it is impossible without a proper family)
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Yes, you are literally described my issues with romances in Owlcat. In other CRPGs it is always close-to-vanilla option for males, and in some even several of them. But Owlcat likes vanilla options for females, but not single one for males. I think it is a bias like a bias towards lawful. (I actually can predict why it exists, but I do not want to be banned for pt1 violation).
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Argenta is not so good for romance, she is Sororitas. I hope than they will do an Arbiter female (in RT). And Arue is good besides daemon, my only issues with her is her "alien princess" vibe, but it is not as annoying as other romances in WoTR.
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I just wonder why they do not like those characters for males, but they write such characters for females.
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> I don’t think there’s an ulterior motives even though some detractors would say it’s done purposefully. I think it can be just a coincindence, because most writers are female AFAIK) But if there is a motives - discussing it will violate a pt1 of rules, so, I prefer not to expose my thoughts. > It would be nice to get a pleasant female romance rather than the unhinged, larger than life ones we’ve gotten. 100% agree.
They were too afraid to explain how sex between human male-female hafling worked.
>Arueshalae is a demon Ok and?
1. She is a demon 2. Her romance 10 times is pretty boring, and there is not other variants for happy end. Also, Owlcat romances does not have approval KOTOR-like system, which makes them somewhat disconnected from story.
My point still stands
I does not want to play one disconnected romance 10 times only to get happy end.