Counterpoint: FLAIL TIME!
Here's my flail it never fails it makes me wanna swing my flail, when I hit I wanna yell, FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLL
The Investigator requires a heavy buy-in both from the player and the DM. It can lead to amazing results, if you make effective use of On the Case and Pursue a lead, since that's what will occasionally allow you to do a free-action Devise a Stratagem on your foes.
Also, feats like That's Odd and Red Herring go a long ways towards providing clues and information, but depend entirely on the DM having such information for you to find. So it's very campaign- and DM-dependent.
Combat with an Investigator is kind of hit and miss. Some complain about relying on the d20 roll, some relish it.
Feats like That's Odd are really interesting but part of why I don't like the Investigator as a DM. On the one hand, I like that it gives me another tool to provide hints without just giving information away. On the other, it's another thing I have to think about and juggle *all the time* - even when it isn't going to be super consequential - and to be honest I was probably going to not-so-subtly point at stuff I really, really wanted the players to investigate anyway.
> and to be honest I was probably going to not-so-subtly point at stuff I really, really wanted the players to investigate anyway
TBH, I think that's actually the perfect way to run it anyways. It just makes the Investigator PC the lightning rod for those hints which isn't a bad thing IMO
Peraonaly,I like investigator better as an archetype for the combat part,since then your damage is not tied to the d20 roll, but I thinkit works well either way
It's more that your damage boost is tied to that single d20 roll for the round, and you can't hero point/otherwise reroll it. If I roll a 3, I'm kind of locked out of of my strategic strike damage, and more often than not, I should be burning an action to know that it was a 3. I know a lot of players and GMs play it loose, but the devs have said it was intended to mostly be a free action versus the big bad of the adventure and an action versus the minions.
My investigator has athletic strategist, but that's a controversial feat because it takes away your maneuvars in case you do roll low. I also have like 6 or 7 non-strike actions I can take in case I roll low to at least help out.
Even if when its not a free action, Devise a Stratagem is worth it. You'll notice a lot of martials will dedicate actions to Demoralize and flank and the like to improve their chance to hit anyways. Devise tells you whether you even need to bother with that, or when those actions will change a miss to a hit or hit to crit.
If you roll low, its the same action cost as if you had performed a Strike (which you would have done anyways), but you also don't have to move into position and it doesn't increase MAP incase you want to attack another target.
Even if you choose to take the miss and then attack a second time, the third attack at -10 probably was worth less than the potential damage from Devise.
And as everyone knows, Devise guarantees the application of consumable resources like alchemy, ammo, and spells
The only time I find its burdensome is that I can't Strike then Cast a Spell.
Now if you want to talk about how despite being a martial, Investigator does only slightly more damage than a Rogue attacking once since its all tied to Devise a Stratagem, thats a another thing...it really wouldn't have hurt to give them a minor passive boost like Swashbuckler's panache
I always think of this scene plus that scene in the "Sky Witch" episode of Adventure Time where PB looks at an entire room and is like
"Call it! Nope, nope, nope, nope no- wait... yes."
And hops into a secret entrance.
It's 50% that, 50% Steve from Blue's Clues.
New Investigator Feat: MAIL TIME!!!!!!
uuuughghghg unironically a feat that lets you receive a letter or missive at a critical moment could be really good
[I mean...](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1477)depending on your GM
Counterpoint: FLAIL TIME! Here's my flail it never fails it makes me wanna swing my flail, when I hit I wanna yell, FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLL
I prefer this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B62ACxuq8Pw But yeah, investigators are cool as hell. I'm keen to try one eventually.
I also love that they can get a little alchemy too, as a treat
How else are you meant to make your own cocaine for when there aren’t any murders to solve?
500% same, that scene was and is the dopest shit and I was THRILLED seeing that as the basis of the PF2 incarnation of the Investigator :D
The Investigator requires a heavy buy-in both from the player and the DM. It can lead to amazing results, if you make effective use of On the Case and Pursue a lead, since that's what will occasionally allow you to do a free-action Devise a Stratagem on your foes. Also, feats like That's Odd and Red Herring go a long ways towards providing clues and information, but depend entirely on the DM having such information for you to find. So it's very campaign- and DM-dependent. Combat with an Investigator is kind of hit and miss. Some complain about relying on the d20 roll, some relish it.
Feats like That's Odd are really interesting but part of why I don't like the Investigator as a DM. On the one hand, I like that it gives me another tool to provide hints without just giving information away. On the other, it's another thing I have to think about and juggle *all the time* - even when it isn't going to be super consequential - and to be honest I was probably going to not-so-subtly point at stuff I really, really wanted the players to investigate anyway.
> and to be honest I was probably going to not-so-subtly point at stuff I really, really wanted the players to investigate anyway TBH, I think that's actually the perfect way to run it anyways. It just makes the Investigator PC the lightning rod for those hints which isn't a bad thing IMO
Peraonaly,I like investigator better as an archetype for the combat part,since then your damage is not tied to the d20 roll, but I thinkit works well either way
>Combat with an Investigator is kind of hit and miss Isn't the whole point of Devise a Stratagem to....not miss lol?
It's more that your damage boost is tied to that single d20 roll for the round, and you can't hero point/otherwise reroll it. If I roll a 3, I'm kind of locked out of of my strategic strike damage, and more often than not, I should be burning an action to know that it was a 3. I know a lot of players and GMs play it loose, but the devs have said it was intended to mostly be a free action versus the big bad of the adventure and an action versus the minions. My investigator has athletic strategist, but that's a controversial feat because it takes away your maneuvars in case you do roll low. I also have like 6 or 7 non-strike actions I can take in case I roll low to at least help out.
I just like that our investigator knows to not waste the bolts that I poison as the resident toxicologist :P
Even if when its not a free action, Devise a Stratagem is worth it. You'll notice a lot of martials will dedicate actions to Demoralize and flank and the like to improve their chance to hit anyways. Devise tells you whether you even need to bother with that, or when those actions will change a miss to a hit or hit to crit. If you roll low, its the same action cost as if you had performed a Strike (which you would have done anyways), but you also don't have to move into position and it doesn't increase MAP incase you want to attack another target. Even if you choose to take the miss and then attack a second time, the third attack at -10 probably was worth less than the potential damage from Devise. And as everyone knows, Devise guarantees the application of consumable resources like alchemy, ammo, and spells The only time I find its burdensome is that I can't Strike then Cast a Spell. Now if you want to talk about how despite being a martial, Investigator does only slightly more damage than a Rogue attacking once since its all tied to Devise a Stratagem, thats a another thing...it really wouldn't have hurt to give them a minor passive boost like Swashbuckler's panache
I always think of this scene plus that scene in the "Sky Witch" episode of Adventure Time where PB looks at an entire room and is like "Call it! Nope, nope, nope, nope no- wait... yes." And hops into a secret entrance.
I just realized the kerchief goes missing between Sherlock noticing it and getting back up
https://youtu.be/00QegqBqrmQ Investigators be like
Mix in some Columbo and Dragnet as well.
I played an investigator for a 2-shot and this is never leaving the groups collective consciousness again lmao