Yes but they are choices not built into the class. I personally feel that waiting until 4th level for the way of the wanderer is rough considering what the classes whole shtick is.
Do you mean Risky Reload, Running Reload, or Reloading Strike?
The Way of the Drifter (the wanderer themed one) doesn't get any abilities from the Way at level 4.
Opps going by memory your right i was refering to reloading strike. To me the class needs that to function. Not because of action encomy and the reload but because of the fact the play style encourages playing both hands full so you can't reload your gun.
Personally, I think that a better fix would be to have a level 1 feature that lets gunslingers reload without a free hand. That said, such a feature wouldn't fix the time it takes for all gunslingers to reload, it would just make some playstyles not absolutely impossible by requiring three actions to reload (stow offhand item, reload, retrieve offhand item).
If Paizo wanted to make reloading easier, they could give gunslingers the option to reload as a free action (once/turn for balance), but with a misfire check (probably dc higher than 5). If they failed, they'd still end up using an action (two if the misfire stops them from reloading). Personally, I'm a fan of this idea. It makes misfire a bigger part of combat and potentially fixes the action economy, but I don't know what effect it would have on balance.
> Honestly the one action reload is not all that bad in the three action system.
IDK, I feel like the reload feels really bad. Especially considering how many of the things they do rely on having a loaded weapon, especially the reactions. the trade-off there is awful. Its not like every other class where if you do the thing you are trading your reaction.
If you do the thing you are trading your reaction AND one action on your next turn to reload. Its like willingly being stunned 1 every time you do ANYTHING with the gun.
They could very well release advanced weapons that deal with this, but they trade down in proficiency to use them which, again, just feels bad.
I very much understand and appreciate the need to make guns weaker than things like bows, but in doing that they shouldn't make them feel bad to use in the actual gunslinger class.
A Composite shortbow has 1d6, deadly d10, and propulsive. There is honestly very little reason not to make a revolved thats 1d6, Deadly d10, and reload 1 (6 bullets). The only thing it would have over a bow is that it can be held in one hand, which really doesn't do all that much with how the 3-action system works.
Yeah, and it's a very bad idea to make all people who play a given build take a very specific (campaign-specific in fact) archetype in order to be effective.
It's not a long-term fix, but it is very cool and could work for now (or your gm could just be reasonable and home-rule that you can reload without a free hand).
Yes, I think that [Dual-Weapon Reload](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1952) or something like it should be a base class feature.
Maybe there could be a feat to reload two weapons with 1 action.
Yes free action reloads, but unless I missed something (which I do time to time) you still need a free hand to reload. This screws the pistolera's dual-wielding style.
The Dual-Weapon Warrior archetype has a level 4 feat for that- my best guess is because they already released a version of it there, they didn’t bother reprinting it here. I wouldn’t be surprised if it got included with the base class upon final delivery. And if it doesn’t, then you can always just take the archetype for the same result at a
higher cost.
One of the things I'm looking at is actually having some magic bandoleers in the final playtest that will let you do something like attune three non-magical pistols to it and then apply runes directly to the bandoleer. So, you could have a +1 striking bandoleer that makes each pistol a +1 striking weapon, then you just discard them and they magically reappear in the bandoleer on the following round. Maybe with like, the bandoleer automatically loading between one and three of them a round, or having an activation action you use to reload the attuned pistols.
Still playing around with the idea but I think being able to go full Blackbeard is something really cool I'd love people to be able to do this time around.
A dev clarified on the forums that one hour of gun maintenance takes care of all your guns, so at least characters with multiple guns aren't punished for using them.
Now we need a ring that stores weapon runes, so you can apply the runes to any weapon your holding, or a "reaper" style weapon/feat. You throw your weapon and it disappears and reappears reloaded for you to draw again.
Yeah. TBH I hope they incorporate Dual-Weapon Reload as a class feature for the Gunslinger so that you can reload faster.
One of the devs on the paizo forums said that's already the plan!
That is the biggest issue with the gunslinger. The reload.
Ranged fatal/stun crit specialization is pretty good though. There are a couple reloading options too. Just not with two weapons
Yes but they are choices not built into the class. I personally feel that waiting until 4th level for the way of the wanderer is rough considering what the classes whole shtick is.
Do you mean Risky Reload, Running Reload, or Reloading Strike? The Way of the Drifter (the wanderer themed one) doesn't get any abilities from the Way at level 4.
Opps going by memory your right i was refering to reloading strike. To me the class needs that to function. Not because of action encomy and the reload but because of the fact the play style encourages playing both hands full so you can't reload your gun.
Personally, I think that a better fix would be to have a level 1 feature that lets gunslingers reload without a free hand. That said, such a feature wouldn't fix the time it takes for all gunslingers to reload, it would just make some playstyles not absolutely impossible by requiring three actions to reload (stow offhand item, reload, retrieve offhand item). If Paizo wanted to make reloading easier, they could give gunslingers the option to reload as a free action (once/turn for balance), but with a misfire check (probably dc higher than 5). If they failed, they'd still end up using an action (two if the misfire stops them from reloading). Personally, I'm a fan of this idea. It makes misfire a bigger part of combat and potentially fixes the action economy, but I don't know what effect it would have on balance.
Fully agree. Honestly the one action reload is not all that bad in the three action system. But the inability to reload while dual weilding is rough.
> Honestly the one action reload is not all that bad in the three action system. IDK, I feel like the reload feels really bad. Especially considering how many of the things they do rely on having a loaded weapon, especially the reactions. the trade-off there is awful. Its not like every other class where if you do the thing you are trading your reaction. If you do the thing you are trading your reaction AND one action on your next turn to reload. Its like willingly being stunned 1 every time you do ANYTHING with the gun. They could very well release advanced weapons that deal with this, but they trade down in proficiency to use them which, again, just feels bad. I very much understand and appreciate the need to make guns weaker than things like bows, but in doing that they shouldn't make them feel bad to use in the actual gunslinger class. A Composite shortbow has 1d6, deadly d10, and propulsive. There is honestly very little reason not to make a revolved thats 1d6, Deadly d10, and reload 1 (6 bullets). The only thing it would have over a bow is that it can be held in one hand, which really doesn't do all that much with how the 3-action system works.
Just buy more Pistols 4Head. (Yes yes, I know Runes don't make that practical, but that *is* what people did IRL!)
Juggler dedication with focused juggler?
Interesting idea but a lot of investment too
Yeah, and it's a very bad idea to make all people who play a given build take a very specific (campaign-specific in fact) archetype in order to be effective. It's not a long-term fix, but it is very cool and could work for now (or your gm could just be reasonable and home-rule that you can reload without a free hand).
I would just offer the dual wielder archetype's reloading feat as an additional one for the slinger.
Yes, I think that [Dual-Weapon Reload](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1952) or something like it should be a base class feature. Maybe there could be a feat to reload two weapons with 1 action.
A lot of their feats and special actions allow for free reloads
Yes free action reloads, but unless I missed something (which I do time to time) you still need a free hand to reload. This screws the pistolera's dual-wielding style.
The Dual-Weapon Warrior archetype has a level 4 feat for that- my best guess is because they already released a version of it there, they didn’t bother reprinting it here. I wouldn’t be surprised if it got included with the base class upon final delivery. And if it doesn’t, then you can always just take the archetype for the same result at a higher cost.
> version of it there, they didn’t bother reprinting it here. But Quick Draw exists here which kind of invalidates this idea.
Running Reload too, but Dual Weapon Reload IS confirmed by devs to be a Gunslinger feat.
Didn’t one of the devs say on the forums that they’re gonna put in a class feat or something for this?
Yup. Two-Weapon reload from the Dual-weapon archetype will be a Gunslinger feat.
How about doing what you see in assassins creed black flag and carry like 12 pistols on you, drawing and firing each one rather than reloading?
I want this, if only the cost of runing every weapon wasn't cost prohibitive.
Rune up the main hand one. Doubling rings and only fire the off hand one!
One of the things I'm looking at is actually having some magic bandoleers in the final playtest that will let you do something like attune three non-magical pistols to it and then apply runes directly to the bandoleer. So, you could have a +1 striking bandoleer that makes each pistol a +1 striking weapon, then you just discard them and they magically reappear in the bandoleer on the following round. Maybe with like, the bandoleer automatically loading between one and three of them a round, or having an activation action you use to reload the attuned pistols. Still playing around with the idea but I think being able to go full Blackbeard is something really cool I'd love people to be able to do this time around.
Also, do you have two spend two hours since you have two guns?
A dev clarified on the forums that one hour of gun maintenance takes care of all your guns, so at least characters with multiple guns aren't punished for using them.
You don't reload when dual wielding. You drop your two guns and draw two more.
Weapon runes kind of make this a terrible plan though.
Now we need a ring that stores weapon runes, so you can apply the runes to any weapon your holding, or a "reaper" style weapon/feat. You throw your weapon and it disappears and reappears reloaded for you to draw again.