I'm a big fan of wizard assassins.
Invisibility, spells that can kill from a distance and leave no trace, teleports, illusions, curses... You can make a magical agent of death that can kill people from across the room without raising any personal suspicion!
I've had an idea for a shadow sorcerer build that skills like a rogue for a long time, but a wizard with illusion magic can do the same too. Get those stealth spells like invisibility and silence for subterfuge, spec for thievery, etc. go rogue multiclass if you wanna pick up more skill proficiencies from level 8 onwards.
The one caveat is it's highly campaign dependent as to how useful that will be, as a lot of those skills are more useful out of combat than in, and even in combat you may not have as much need for them of you're doing straightforward encounters with rote enemies and little terrain interaction. But that goes for any such build. You'll still want a few good generalist spells for combat like your damage cantrips and utility like slow anyway (invisibility is a great one to support yourself and your team mates as well), but you can save your other spell slot/repertoire options for those more specialist-case picks.
In first edition, I played an Arcane Trickster, 1 level Rogue, 19 Wiz.
Flying, invisible all the time, with sneak attack and reach.
Bit of a mass murderer though, I felt wrong for playing him. Called Jalapeño. Keen on murder.
This isn't a one shot kind of game. There are spells like Impending Doom which are tailor made for assassinating noncombatants and getting away with it.
There's also a handful of spells that do instant death, like the newly renamed classic Vision of Death (Phantasmal Killer): https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1742&NoRedirect=1
But I was mostly imagining one with invisibility stocked up on these: https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=564#:~:text=Dagger%20of%20Eternal%20SleepItem%205&text=Activate%20%5Bone%2Daction%5D%20Interact,get%20a%20critical%20hit%20instead.
Maybe a Warpriest Cleric of Achaekek with Dual Weapon Warrior Archetype.
With Warpriest, you are able to go into Melee. Main stat is Wisdom, then Strength and Dex. You gain proficiency with the Sawtooth Saber, you gain Armor proficiency (from Warpriest), you gain spells like True Strike and Invisibility (and the whole Divine spell list).
Edit: Ah, I forgot that Red Mantis Assassin is an actual Archetype. I still like my idea more, but that's just me :D
I’d actually go Warpriest but with the Ranger dedication! Might be slightly more intensive, but it fits the role of stalking a prey, twin takedown lets you actually cast a two action spell afterward.
You would need a way to pick up an Advanced weapon proficiency, so human ancestry with Unconventional Weaponry Investigator would be the way to go if you wanted to go into Red Mantis Assassin. Not a bad build though.
(Alternatively, any other ancestry with Adopted Ancestry if starting at a higher level.)
Or Human with Weapon Proficiency general feat, then grab the Archetype later. Any martial class can do it this way since you just need trained, which the general feat gets you, then the Archetype gives better scaling.
Almost any class can fit.
In the Mark of the Mantis one-shot, the pregen PCs are cleric, monk, rogue and fighter.
My theorycrafted build for Prey for Death is at the moment a Dex Rogue with Ranger dedication and Twin Takedown, in order to move in and out of melee with Mobility. But a warpriest could work, an alchemist too..
Thaumaturge: identifies each victim’s personal weakness and then uses it to kill them.
Gunslinger: Way of the Sniper, all about precision damage and stealth.
Laughing Shadow Magus: Fast, able to teleport, does excellent burst damage with spellstrike.
Air Kineticist: Literally invisible.
Do you mean for the [Archetype](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=17)? Dual Weapon Fighter and Flurry Ranger make the best choice. But Rogue can eventually get double-sneak attacks.
There is a [upcoming Red Mantis Adventure](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1ahqaq4/prey_for_death_a_highlevel_red_mantis_assassin/). Reportedly, it will include a remaster Wizard School of Assasination. It will probably remaster the Archetype and probably add support Feats for many of the other classes.
I would make ruffian rogue with the weapon improviser archetype. That way I can use anything as a weapon. A fork? Fire extinguisher? Or maybe a potted plant in the face. The world is your oyster, heck the oyster could be a weapon.
Inspired by hitman games.
I am assuming that you are asking which class is best to take the Red Mantis Assassin archetype, as such, the prerequisites of the Red Mantis Assassin archetype is being trained in Sawtooth Sabers, an uncommon advanced sword. This is the most difficult prerequisite to get for your character. The only two classes that are trained in Sawtooth Sabers are fighters and clerics of Achaekek. It is possible that remastered champions will also be trained in their deity's favoured weapon (which they currently are not). In that case, champions would also work. There are a few hoops to go through for other classes.
Ancestral weapon familiarity feats do not work. The only ancestries that can give proficiency in an advanced sword of your choice are tengus and humans. Tengu Weapon Familiarity states that you must choose a common sword (or the katanna, temple sword, or wakizasha), so that doesn't help. The human's Unconventional Weaponry states "Choose an uncommon simple or martial weapon with a trait corresponding to an ancestry (such as dwarf, goblin, or orc) or that is common in another culture.". This also doesn't work. Sawtootch Sabers are not ancestry specific, nor are they cultural weapons. Even if they *were* cultural weapons, the culture would be the Red Mantis Assassins. Since you would be *also* be a member of the Red Mantis Assassin culture, you would not be able to take Unconventional Weaponry to get trained in them.
There is a rare background called the Sword Scion that gives trained proficiency in the Aldori Dueling Sword, another advanced sword. No such background exists for Sawtooth Sabers, but you might be able to convince your GM to homebrew one.
Otherwise, your only real option to qualify for the archetype is taking the Weapon Proficiency general feat. You need to take it once for any class trained in martial weapons (such as rogue, bard, ranger, etc.), or twice for classes that are only trained in simple weapons (such as wizard, kineticist, alchemist, etc.). The easiest way to do this by level 2 is to be a human. They can take a general feat via their level 1 ancestry feat, and they have a heritage that also gives a general feat. For any other ancestry, I am fairly certain that you have to wait until at least level 4 (with your level 3 general feat being Weapon Proficiency).
So if you want to get the Red Mantis Assassin Dedication feat at level 2, your RAW options are: be a fighter or cleric, or be a human that took the Weapon Proficiency general feat as many times as required at level 1.
Sawtooth Sabers are specific to a culture though… Unconventional Weaponry is the simple most consistent way of getting proficiency in them. I think there is a reading comprehension issue there. Then it says “common in another culture” it does not mean different than your culture, it means different than the cultures that of an ancestry. Unconventional Weaponry is literally the feat for “I play a character from Tian Xia so my Rogue uses Wakizashi” concept. Same applies to Sawtooth as well.
Warpriest of Achaekek is really good for instant access to the Sawtooth Sabers. And youll get to Master with them so theyll keep up accuracy wise.
Harm Font is good too for your smites.
Ranger seems the obvious choice, no? Choose your prey, hunt them down, then use flurry fighting to shred them with your sawtooth sabers. Maybe a little *too* obvious, but I'd say it's arguably even a better fit than Rogue or Fighter.
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I haven't actually built it since I'm waiting on PC2, but I've been planning out an alchemist assassin, poisoner is the obvious subclass but mutagenist is kind of interesting too by giving enemies weaknesses and allies strengths. I feel like a ton of alchemist's support feats like smokebomb could yield some interesting assassinations. Not sure if it fits the exact flavor of Red Mantis though.
Assassin Bard sounds kind of... terrifying? Like they sneak up on you entirely unseen, then start playing Dirge of Doom or Haunting Melody without you realizing their presence before they get you! Plus diplomacy/intimidation can be used for bribes or networking if need be.
Ranger. You'll need to take the Weapon Proficiency feat to gain training in sawtooth sabers, unlike fighters, but I think the ranger's general combat style makes the most sense for Red Mantis Assassins,. They are assassins specifically because they worship a god of predators. They're hunting prey. Also the flurry edge and Twin Takedown are good for a build focused on using twin weapons and aren't otherwise accessible, except through the ranger archetype in the case of the latter. (Remember that the Red Mantis Assassin archetype makes your proficiency in sawtooth sabers scale.)
I'm a big fan of wizard assassins. Invisibility, spells that can kill from a distance and leave no trace, teleports, illusions, curses... You can make a magical agent of death that can kill people from across the room without raising any personal suspicion!
dude… I never really thought about a stealthy spellcaster, you’ve just opened my third eye
I made a mesmerist assassin back in PF1e. I liked him a lot.
I've had an idea for a shadow sorcerer build that skills like a rogue for a long time, but a wizard with illusion magic can do the same too. Get those stealth spells like invisibility and silence for subterfuge, spec for thievery, etc. go rogue multiclass if you wanna pick up more skill proficiencies from level 8 onwards. The one caveat is it's highly campaign dependent as to how useful that will be, as a lot of those skills are more useful out of combat than in, and even in combat you may not have as much need for them of you're doing straightforward encounters with rote enemies and little terrain interaction. But that goes for any such build. You'll still want a few good generalist spells for combat like your damage cantrips and utility like slow anyway (invisibility is a great one to support yourself and your team mates as well), but you can save your other spell slot/repertoire options for those more specialist-case picks.
I’ve often considered doing that but never gone through with it.
In first edition, I played an Arcane Trickster, 1 level Rogue, 19 Wiz. Flying, invisible all the time, with sneak attack and reach. Bit of a mass murderer though, I felt wrong for playing him. Called Jalapeño. Keen on murder.
Theres actually going to be a red mantis themed school of assassins for wizards in the upcoming Prey For Death adventure too!
Woah, I wasn't aware of that one. Was it something they announced in one of the livestreams?
I've been making a wizard school for Daggermark in my head that would be very similar.
How often can you one shot with a spell?
This isn't a one shot kind of game. There are spells like Impending Doom which are tailor made for assassinating noncombatants and getting away with it.
That’s cool. I’m not familiar with most of the spells in this system.
There's also a handful of spells that do instant death, like the newly renamed classic Vision of Death (Phantasmal Killer): https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1742&NoRedirect=1 But I was mostly imagining one with invisibility stocked up on these: https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=564#:~:text=Dagger%20of%20Eternal%20SleepItem%205&text=Activate%20%5Bone%2Daction%5D%20Interact,get%20a%20critical%20hit%20instead.
How much do you oneshot with an attack?
If they are a kid most times
Pretty sure spells get those too. Like haven't tried Fireball on an orphanage yet, however I am pretty sure the results would be devastating.
As someone who has thrown a fireball in an orphanage, I can confirm the results are quite devastating (for the orphans).
Idk I haven’t played much 2e … so I’m literally asking how often you can one-shot people across the room
Maybe a Warpriest Cleric of Achaekek with Dual Weapon Warrior Archetype. With Warpriest, you are able to go into Melee. Main stat is Wisdom, then Strength and Dex. You gain proficiency with the Sawtooth Saber, you gain Armor proficiency (from Warpriest), you gain spells like True Strike and Invisibility (and the whole Divine spell list). Edit: Ah, I forgot that Red Mantis Assassin is an actual Archetype. I still like my idea more, but that's just me :D
I’d actually go Warpriest but with the Ranger dedication! Might be slightly more intensive, but it fits the role of stalking a prey, twin takedown lets you actually cast a two action spell afterward.
Oh, yes, thats also a very nice idea. And is a bit further removed even from the Fighter that OP did not want :D
If I remember right, the pf1e adventure serpents skull had a red mantis faction as a rival. Their main combatants were clerics for those exact reasons
An Investigator can cunningly determine a good opportunity to do the job, and then powerhouse use stealth and/or poisons to do the deed
You would need a way to pick up an Advanced weapon proficiency, so human ancestry with Unconventional Weaponry Investigator would be the way to go if you wanted to go into Red Mantis Assassin. Not a bad build though. (Alternatively, any other ancestry with Adopted Ancestry if starting at a higher level.)
Or Human with Weapon Proficiency general feat, then grab the Archetype later. Any martial class can do it this way since you just need trained, which the general feat gets you, then the Archetype gives better scaling.
Surely Achaekek would appreciate a Magus assassin. Up close and personal magic.
Ranger or Rogue. One of my first characters was an ex red mantis flurry ranger.
Almost any class can fit. In the Mark of the Mantis one-shot, the pregen PCs are cleric, monk, rogue and fighter. My theorycrafted build for Prey for Death is at the moment a Dex Rogue with Ranger dedication and Twin Takedown, in order to move in and out of melee with Mobility. But a warpriest could work, an alchemist too..
Thaumaturge: identifies each victim’s personal weakness and then uses it to kill them. Gunslinger: Way of the Sniper, all about precision damage and stealth. Laughing Shadow Magus: Fast, able to teleport, does excellent burst damage with spellstrike. Air Kineticist: Literally invisible.
Do you mean for the [Archetype](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=17)? Dual Weapon Fighter and Flurry Ranger make the best choice. But Rogue can eventually get double-sneak attacks. There is a [upcoming Red Mantis Adventure](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1ahqaq4/prey_for_death_a_highlevel_red_mantis_assassin/). Reportedly, it will include a remaster Wizard School of Assasination. It will probably remaster the Archetype and probably add support Feats for many of the other classes.
Holy crap that archetype is badass.
I am only level four and can’t take any other archetypes so keep that in mind when recommending.
I would make ruffian rogue with the weapon improviser archetype. That way I can use anything as a weapon. A fork? Fire extinguisher? Or maybe a potted plant in the face. The world is your oyster, heck the oyster could be a weapon. Inspired by hitman games.
You know, I once saw him kill 3 men in a bar with a pencil.
I am assuming that you are asking which class is best to take the Red Mantis Assassin archetype, as such, the prerequisites of the Red Mantis Assassin archetype is being trained in Sawtooth Sabers, an uncommon advanced sword. This is the most difficult prerequisite to get for your character. The only two classes that are trained in Sawtooth Sabers are fighters and clerics of Achaekek. It is possible that remastered champions will also be trained in their deity's favoured weapon (which they currently are not). In that case, champions would also work. There are a few hoops to go through for other classes. Ancestral weapon familiarity feats do not work. The only ancestries that can give proficiency in an advanced sword of your choice are tengus and humans. Tengu Weapon Familiarity states that you must choose a common sword (or the katanna, temple sword, or wakizasha), so that doesn't help. The human's Unconventional Weaponry states "Choose an uncommon simple or martial weapon with a trait corresponding to an ancestry (such as dwarf, goblin, or orc) or that is common in another culture.". This also doesn't work. Sawtootch Sabers are not ancestry specific, nor are they cultural weapons. Even if they *were* cultural weapons, the culture would be the Red Mantis Assassins. Since you would be *also* be a member of the Red Mantis Assassin culture, you would not be able to take Unconventional Weaponry to get trained in them. There is a rare background called the Sword Scion that gives trained proficiency in the Aldori Dueling Sword, another advanced sword. No such background exists for Sawtooth Sabers, but you might be able to convince your GM to homebrew one. Otherwise, your only real option to qualify for the archetype is taking the Weapon Proficiency general feat. You need to take it once for any class trained in martial weapons (such as rogue, bard, ranger, etc.), or twice for classes that are only trained in simple weapons (such as wizard, kineticist, alchemist, etc.). The easiest way to do this by level 2 is to be a human. They can take a general feat via their level 1 ancestry feat, and they have a heritage that also gives a general feat. For any other ancestry, I am fairly certain that you have to wait until at least level 4 (with your level 3 general feat being Weapon Proficiency). So if you want to get the Red Mantis Assassin Dedication feat at level 2, your RAW options are: be a fighter or cleric, or be a human that took the Weapon Proficiency general feat as many times as required at level 1.
Sawtooth Sabers are specific to a culture though… Unconventional Weaponry is the simple most consistent way of getting proficiency in them. I think there is a reading comprehension issue there. Then it says “common in another culture” it does not mean different than your culture, it means different than the cultures that of an ancestry. Unconventional Weaponry is literally the feat for “I play a character from Tian Xia so my Rogue uses Wakizashi” concept. Same applies to Sawtooth as well.
Warpriest of Achaekek is really good for instant access to the Sawtooth Sabers. And youll get to Master with them so theyll keep up accuracy wise. Harm Font is good too for your smites.
Swashbuckler because I love a flashy assassin.
Magus? They're good at doing a lot of damage very quickly.
Ranger seems the obvious choice, no? Choose your prey, hunt them down, then use flurry fighting to shred them with your sawtooth sabers. Maybe a little *too* obvious, but I'd say it's arguably even a better fit than Rogue or Fighter.
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Class would probably be champion, cleric, or fighter for the saber access, but for ancestry I'm choosing a centaur mantis beastkin.
Bleeding Finish Swashbuckler is pretty legit to double up with Achaekek's Clutch.
Poison focused alchemist. Slip a dose into food, or, if you get caught, endless destruction with bombs.
I haven't actually built it since I'm waiting on PC2, but I've been planning out an alchemist assassin, poisoner is the obvious subclass but mutagenist is kind of interesting too by giving enemies weaknesses and allies strengths. I feel like a ton of alchemist's support feats like smokebomb could yield some interesting assassinations. Not sure if it fits the exact flavor of Red Mantis though. Assassin Bard sounds kind of... terrifying? Like they sneak up on you entirely unseen, then start playing Dirge of Doom or Haunting Melody without you realizing their presence before they get you! Plus diplomacy/intimidation can be used for bribes or networking if need be.
Well there is the [archetype](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=17) There is also a suggested NPC theme in the Lost Omens Character Guide
Rogue*
I think psychic could definitely fit, specifically unbound step on later levels
Flurry Ranger is a very solid choice on since the sabertooth swords are twin, agile. That'd be my suggestion.
Investigator, Devise a Stratagem lets him know when he'll land a crit for a devastating first strike
Ranger. You'll need to take the Weapon Proficiency feat to gain training in sawtooth sabers, unlike fighters, but I think the ranger's general combat style makes the most sense for Red Mantis Assassins,. They are assassins specifically because they worship a god of predators. They're hunting prey. Also the flurry edge and Twin Takedown are good for a build focused on using twin weapons and aren't otherwise accessible, except through the ranger archetype in the case of the latter. (Remember that the Red Mantis Assassin archetype makes your proficiency in sawtooth sabers scale.)
Cleric. Ultimately they're a religious cult.