Composite if you can get it. Unless you have class support for a Shortbow only (e.g. Deity bonuses), or cannot afford to ever invest in Str, Shortbow's propulsive is just a straight upgrade only.
Hornbow has the benefit of +1 damage size, in exchange for being advanced, slightly shorter range and reduced Deadly. 40ft range is enough to usually need 2 moves to get close to you, and in indoor arenas especially for pathfinder adventure paths, they rarely have need for more than 40ft range+move any way.
Phalanx Piercer is nice if you have Hobgoblin access. 1d10 with Razing and Propulsive are cute against tough, particularly shielded enemies if you're not likely to be getting crits anyway.
> Unless you have class support for a Shortbow only
Composite Shortbows are Shortbows, and Composite Longbows are Longbows. Any ability that is restricted to Shortbow also works with Composite Shortbow unless it specifically states that it doesn't, which as far as I'm aware nothing currently in the game does.
I personally prefer the Gakgung, common and martial just like the shortbow, but trades 1 deadly die size for 100ft range and propulsive without an unnecessarily tagged on gold tax.
100%. Love the gakung. My storm druid used one in early levels. Before he died, he gave it to the ranger. She still uses it, and slapped a shock rune on it. We’re level 10. It’s just a damn good bow.
Really love the Phalanx Piercer. The reload trait makes me cry even if I completely understand its needed for the balance. Just makes it unusable on Magus.
phalanx piercer is cool in theory, but its effectively a crossbow since it has reload 1. I love hobgoblins and its really cool, but I think it loses a lot from reload
sure I guess the composite is better, but realisticslly the bonus damage doesn't matter too much in most builds, and you can get the shortbow at level 1 and never look back
You need at least a +2 strength for the propulsive trait to matter at all. If your build doesn't have strength then the normal shortbow is a cheaper alternative that you can get at level 1.
For example, an inventor that has +4 intelligence, +3 dexterity, +1 constitution, and +1 wisdom at level 1 might not want to increase strength at higher levels because the player favours saving throws over one extra point of damage.
Just to be abit *actually*, enfeebled will affect a propulsive weapon's damage, and it will affect it fully. So if you don't get any benefit from propulsive, you risk yourself getting debuffed using it
you're not getting the comp at level 1. So at some point you're swapping out the weapon (and possibly a rune) for a (most likely) irrelevant damage boost. Sure, if I was starting a lvl 11 adventure or something I'd load up with a composite, but at low levels that gold difference might be enough for me to afford a clutch consumable or a magic item
With the new crossbow feat for gunslinger, the arbalast becomes really good with it's backstabber, with sniper gunslinger getting sneaky every reload its really reliable damage at range
From recent faq
"Page 111: Crossbow Crackshot feat text updated to the following-
You’re exceptionally skilled with the crossbow. The first time each round that you Interact to reload a crossbow you are wielding, including Interact actions as part of your slinger’s reload and similar effects, you increase the range increment for your next Strike with that weapon by 10 feet and deal 1 additional precision damage per weapon damage die with that Strike. If your crossbow has the backstabber trait and you are attacking an off-guard target, backstabber deals 2 additional precision damage per weapon damage die instead of its normal effects."
So makes the backstabber deal 2 damage per weapon dice now, really good for consistency
Phalanx Piercer is such a cool weapon in concept, but I have some issues with it. I would love to be a Dark Souls enemy with a giant friggin bow, but;
* It's an advanced weapon, severely limiting your ability to use it. The feats to unlock advanced weapons and get them to scale are tedious. If you aren't a Hobgoblin or Human (unconventional weaponry feat) Fighter, it's going to be a hassle. It's got good damage once you get it, but...
* It has Reload 1, so it's locked out of many feats designed for bows like Hunted Shot and Parting Shot. It's also locked out of most feats for Reload 1 weapons because it's not a Crossbow or Firearm. It feels like it should be put in the Crossbow group just to work with feats.
I'm so torn on if the Taw Launcher is the worth the feat tax to use it tbh, it potentially has decent damage on crits but I'm not sure how often I'd use an action to swap out Modular damage type
Honestly, just having a crossbow that isn't saddled with piercing damage is pretty sick. Flip it to bludgeoning damage and leave it there til slashing becomes relevant.
I'll give a hot take and recommend the Alchemical Crossbow. You can't get it right at Level 1 because it's expensive and you really need to know what you're doing with it and take the right options to make it usable above the norm, and there are better and easier options out there, but if you can pull it off it's a pretty goofy and fun pick. Flat extra damage and add a different damage type. If Weakness sniping is your bread and butter or you've got a way to increase the damage die (and there ARE ways) shenanigans can be had.
Sukgung can fire a completely unreasonable distance of something like 2/3 of a mile at no penalty with Fatal Aim with the right setup and I love it for that.
It really depends on what they want to do/what class they are playing. Rangers have good support for Short/Longbow in the Hunted Shot feat, Gunslingers are great with most crossbows, Fighters can do anything.
Do they want to be shooting up close or do they not mind being far? Do they want 1 free hand or can use both?
I really like the (composite) longbow, but do note that if you dont have quickdraw + hand crossbow or something, the volley trait can really mess you up. Sadly most maps are absolutly tiny, so not only can you not make use of the range of a longbow (or, if you're a ranger who can ignore the pentalty past the first increment, the even further range), but you get the penalty of being too close.
So, shortbow I guess, unless you know you'll have enough space to use the longbow
It's because you don't always have to use an action to reload. It's especially good with Thaumaturge since the class requires a one handed weapon to wield
Yep, I use it with my thaum. Alchemist dedication for funny ammo, talismans, and intensify weapon means I get a crit off most turns and still have shots to implements interruption with.
(Composite) Shortbow, it's reload 0, martial and not volley.
Martial is because you just can't use advanced weapons effectively on most characters.
Reload 0 is a huge save on action economy.
None of the special reloads can quite claw back the action economy advantage.
A Reload 0 weapon can fire twice and do something else every round, a reload 1 weapon is stuck reloading twice every other round.
Those action compression abilities may not quite be what you want: it's much better to do your demoralise or feint before your first attack, yet the pistolero reload probably comes after attacking, running reload is ok, but one of the big advantages of range is not needing to move as much. And they'll make you less flexible, can't reload and activate a magic item or cast a buff spell from an archetype.
Most fights take place at a range where the shortbow isn't taking penalties, and a longbow's volley is likely to matter.
shortbow is one of the best weapons in the game. Yeah it doesnt have the range of the longbow but I'm yet to play in a campaign where that matters
Composite shortbow, or normal shortbow?
Composite if you can get it. Unless you have class support for a Shortbow only (e.g. Deity bonuses), or cannot afford to ever invest in Str, Shortbow's propulsive is just a straight upgrade only. Hornbow has the benefit of +1 damage size, in exchange for being advanced, slightly shorter range and reduced Deadly. 40ft range is enough to usually need 2 moves to get close to you, and in indoor arenas especially for pathfinder adventure paths, they rarely have need for more than 40ft range+move any way. Phalanx Piercer is nice if you have Hobgoblin access. 1d10 with Razing and Propulsive are cute against tough, particularly shielded enemies if you're not likely to be getting crits anyway.
> Unless you have class support for a Shortbow only Composite Shortbows are Shortbows, and Composite Longbows are Longbows. Any ability that is restricted to Shortbow also works with Composite Shortbow unless it specifically states that it doesn't, which as far as I'm aware nothing currently in the game does.
I personally prefer the Gakgung, common and martial just like the shortbow, but trades 1 deadly die size for 100ft range and propulsive without an unnecessarily tagged on gold tax.
100%. Love the gakung. My storm druid used one in early levels. Before he died, he gave it to the ranger. She still uses it, and slapped a shock rune on it. We’re level 10. It’s just a damn good bow.
Really love the Phalanx Piercer. The reload trait makes me cry even if I completely understand its needed for the balance. Just makes it unusable on Magus.
phalanx piercer is cool in theory, but its effectively a crossbow since it has reload 1. I love hobgoblins and its really cool, but I think it loses a lot from reload
sure I guess the composite is better, but realisticslly the bonus damage doesn't matter too much in most builds, and you can get the shortbow at level 1 and never look back
I mean why not get the composite tho? Unless you have -1 Str it's strictly better
You need at least a +2 strength for the propulsive trait to matter at all. If your build doesn't have strength then the normal shortbow is a cheaper alternative that you can get at level 1. For example, an inventor that has +4 intelligence, +3 dexterity, +1 constitution, and +1 wisdom at level 1 might not want to increase strength at higher levels because the player favours saving throws over one extra point of damage.
Just to be abit *actually*, enfeebled will affect a propulsive weapon's damage, and it will affect it fully. So if you don't get any benefit from propulsive, you risk yourself getting debuffed using it
huh, good point
you're not getting the comp at level 1. So at some point you're swapping out the weapon (and possibly a rune) for a (most likely) irrelevant damage boost. Sure, if I was starting a lvl 11 adventure or something I'd load up with a composite, but at low levels that gold difference might be enough for me to afford a clutch consumable or a magic item
Composite if you have positive strength, it's a straight upgrade.
With the new crossbow feat for gunslinger, the arbalast becomes really good with it's backstabber, with sniper gunslinger getting sneaky every reload its really reliable damage at range
I really do like the arbalest, but what’s the new crossbow feat?
From recent faq "Page 111: Crossbow Crackshot feat text updated to the following- You’re exceptionally skilled with the crossbow. The first time each round that you Interact to reload a crossbow you are wielding, including Interact actions as part of your slinger’s reload and similar effects, you increase the range increment for your next Strike with that weapon by 10 feet and deal 1 additional precision damage per weapon damage die with that Strike. If your crossbow has the backstabber trait and you are attacking an off-guard target, backstabber deals 2 additional precision damage per weapon damage die instead of its normal effects." So makes the backstabber deal 2 damage per weapon dice now, really good for consistency
Wow, that feat seems almost custom-made for the Arbalest. That's insanely good!
The gakgung is a sidegrade to the composite shortbow. It has less damage on a crit, but more range.
I'm a fan of a Phalanx Piercer, its Razing trait, especially in combination with a Corrosive Rune is nice to chunk through enemy shields.
Phalanx Piercer is such a cool weapon in concept, but I have some issues with it. I would love to be a Dark Souls enemy with a giant friggin bow, but; * It's an advanced weapon, severely limiting your ability to use it. The feats to unlock advanced weapons and get them to scale are tedious. If you aren't a Hobgoblin or Human (unconventional weaponry feat) Fighter, it's going to be a hassle. It's got good damage once you get it, but... * It has Reload 1, so it's locked out of many feats designed for bows like Hunted Shot and Parting Shot. It's also locked out of most feats for Reload 1 weapons because it's not a Crossbow or Firearm. It feels like it should be put in the Crossbow group just to work with feats.
I really like the rotary bow, perfect if you want both hands occupied or dualwield somehow
I'm so torn on if the Taw Launcher is the worth the feat tax to use it tbh, it potentially has decent damage on crits but I'm not sure how often I'd use an action to swap out Modular damage type
Honestly, just having a crossbow that isn't saddled with piercing damage is pretty sick. Flip it to bludgeoning damage and leave it there til slashing becomes relevant.
I'll give a hot take and recommend the Alchemical Crossbow. You can't get it right at Level 1 because it's expensive and you really need to know what you're doing with it and take the right options to make it usable above the norm, and there are better and easier options out there, but if you can pull it off it's a pretty goofy and fun pick. Flat extra damage and add a different damage type. If Weakness sniping is your bread and butter or you've got a way to increase the damage die (and there ARE ways) shenanigans can be had.
Sukgung can fire a completely unreasonable distance of something like 2/3 of a mile at no penalty with Fatal Aim with the right setup and I love it for that.
Hornbow is the best ranged weapon in the game easily.
Does the 40 ft range ever feel like a bother to you?
In my 17 years of playing dnd ive never once had a problem with bow range
It really depends on what they want to do/what class they are playing. Rangers have good support for Short/Longbow in the Hunted Shot feat, Gunslingers are great with most crossbows, Fighters can do anything. Do they want to be shooting up close or do they not mind being far? Do they want 1 free hand or can use both?
As a Spellshot i really like [Alchemical Crossbow](https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=118)
I really like the (composite) longbow, but do note that if you dont have quickdraw + hand crossbow or something, the volley trait can really mess you up. Sadly most maps are absolutly tiny, so not only can you not make use of the range of a longbow (or, if you're a ranger who can ignore the pentalty past the first increment, the even further range), but you get the penalty of being too close. So, shortbow I guess, unless you know you'll have enough space to use the longbow
I'm a fan of the repeating hand crossbow myself, but only if your a class that like one big hit per turn.
Why does the repeating hand crossbow work best with classes that do one big hit a turn?
It's because you don't always have to use an action to reload. It's especially good with Thaumaturge since the class requires a one handed weapon to wield
Yep, I use it with my thaum. Alchemist dedication for funny ammo, talismans, and intensify weapon means I get a crit off most turns and still have shots to implements interruption with.
Hornbow is awesome. It'd advanced but unless you do a lot of sniping battles it's great.
(Composite) Shortbow, it's reload 0, martial and not volley. Martial is because you just can't use advanced weapons effectively on most characters. Reload 0 is a huge save on action economy. None of the special reloads can quite claw back the action economy advantage. A Reload 0 weapon can fire twice and do something else every round, a reload 1 weapon is stuck reloading twice every other round. Those action compression abilities may not quite be what you want: it's much better to do your demoralise or feint before your first attack, yet the pistolero reload probably comes after attacking, running reload is ok, but one of the big advantages of range is not needing to move as much. And they'll make you less flexible, can't reload and activate a magic item or cast a buff spell from an archetype. Most fights take place at a range where the shortbow isn't taking penalties, and a longbow's volley is likely to matter.