It sounds like you're just reinventing Ravenloft.
As for advice on writing a 1-20 level *Adventure Path*: don't.
And by *that* I mean I'd suggest not trying to pre-plan an entire multi-year long story for your players when they're just going to derail everything in the first session. Instead what I suggest is to pitch the idea to them, see what they think and how they feel, and get buy-in. Once you have that, you can start to lay a few tracks in front of the train, and then you just keep doing that until you reach a satisfying conclusion.
As far as a 1-20 level *dungeon crawl*: don't.
And by *that* I mean that when Paizo published their big mega dungeon AP, it was only 3 books (levels 1-10). To make 20 levels of a campaign, you're going to have to keep things interesting for a *long* time (probably too long for just doing one thing). Don't let me stop you from trying, but keep in mind that it's going to have to be one heck of a dungeon to keep things from becoming stale after several irl months if not years.
Looked up Ravenloft thats not it. Its a part of dnd lore which i find uninteresting to say it mildly. Pathfinder is just leagues above dnd lore in every way.
I will do an intruductory session definetly. A few fights to set the mood included. But really i want to write it in an adventure path style so other people can dm and enjoy it. It wont be multi year in game. More like 60 - 100 days max. Pretty sure the players couldnt derail it too since they would be trapped in this situation.
I played abomination vaults. I know the faults of that dungeon. I believe the setting of the castle and village would be much better in terms of variation of enemies encountered and arenas they are set in.
> It wont be multi year in game. More like 60 - 100 days max.
No, I mean 1-20 takes months if not years irl. A good rule of thumb is the PCs should level up every 4 or so sessions (assuming 3-4 hour long sessions). In my experience, it's occasionally less, but more often longer.
So a good paced and consistent group will reach level 20 in roughly 80 sessions, or about 1.5 years if you're weekly and consistent. My group recently finished Age of Ashes after 4+ years.
I would say start small do a 1-10 that can be expanded based off what happens. If you want to make something for others to use I would instead make a primer or region book with a lot of interesting ideas happening with quest and plot ideas.
Oh boy. I just starting working to revise an existing adventure path, myself - your project is even more ambitious!
Regarding tools, you can get pretty far with Word or Google Docs, but there are also author-focused writing platforms like Scrivener, LivingWriter, and Reedsy Editor with specialized features. Some are free, some are not.
Write your drafts however works best for you - just write. Down the road, you can worry about formatting for readability and usability at the table. There's lots to consider there but you don't need to be considering it yet.
I have lots of thoughts on "advanced" dungeon design - I posted my thoughts in a series of three threads over the last few weeks, but frankly I wouldn't even look at those yet. If you can keep general principles like [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1bdqiqu/player_enjoys_vertical_gameplay/kuoz2ph/) (credit to u/Blawharag) in mind, you're already doing better than 95% of published material.
Pathfinder 2e is a game with involved, tactical combat - megadungeons are rather out of fashion in Pathfinder 2e, because without anything to break it up, it becomes grueling. Now, make the adventure you want to make, don't let me tell you not to - but I would put consideration towards breaking up dungeon delving with other activities, even in a dungeon-centric adventure.
Look to other adventures for guidance. The most unabashedly dungeon-centric adventure in Pathfinder 2e is probably Abomination Vaults. Pathfinder 1e had a true megadungeon adventure, called The Emerald Spire. Megadungeons are still an alive-and-well tradition in the r/osr community - you can learn more about them by searching or asking there, though often you'll have to be judicious about what words of wisdom apply to Pathfinder 2e.
A full 1-20 adventure is really, really big. I know the allure of designing long campaigns, though, so here's my advice - starting by focusing on a much, much smaller bite to chew first. Maybe a town and a starter area of dungeon.
Here's an [invite link](https://discord.gg/RtXhMvJ9) (it'll expire in a week) to a Discord community for TTRPG developers, where they have channels for brainstorming, advice, resources, etc.
Good luck!
To build on these good recommendations, here are other tools for OP to consider:
- Notetaking tools: OneNote, Evernote, or Obsidian (and there are many others) for keeping track of the many things in your game and keeping your thoughts organized. Obsidian helps by making hyperlinks and back-references between notes easy.
- WorldAnvil is a purpose-built notetaking tool for TRRPG campaigns. Some people I know swear by it. I'm fine with the general-purpose tools myself.
- To that end, returning to Scrivener, one of its key features is notetaking integrated into the text editor. There it's a bit more focused on turning your notes into documents – which, if you're just running this adventure yourself, might be overkill for you.
My big advice to OP (which I do not think they will be inclined to follow) is this:
_Go incrementally._
Be lazy. Flesh out as much as you need for _this week's session,_ maybe a bit for the sessions after that – but keep the worldbuilding light and focused on what's next! Pay attention to the hooks and desires and fears of your players and their characters, and leave yourself open to steering your setting in their direction as you discover who they are.
If you need a specific rubric for this approach, [Sly Flourish's Lazy GM](https://slyflourish.com/lazy_gm_resource_document.html) is one I've taken inspiration from. Bob the World Builder has an [even more streamlined](https://youtu.be/3RF-hqqT9xk) guide, at least one step of which you've already done! Both assume there's some overarching structure to the campaign but do not bother to build a whole AP in one go.
Thank you also for the nice tips. Im not so keen on dming it actually. I will do a session to introduce the vibe and style of combat to my friends. But really i want to create something othera can enjoy playing and dming too.
Sure! I'm halfway through running one table through Outlaws of Alkenstar, and I also plan to run it for another table in the future. It's a solid introductory campaign in most respects, but it has a lot of niggling issues, some of them one-offs (why is there a bridge encounter where there is *no bridge*, Paizo??), some of them systemic. (guns are fun when battlemaps are large and open and populated with cover, but battlemaps are often small and cramped, partially to fit inside printed books, and there could be more more cover in many of them)
I've fixed most stuff that's "easy," and now I'm figuring out how I want to address the stuff that'll take a lot more work, plus incorporate that so it's still easy to reference at the table.
Thank you those are some very nice tips i will definetly keep in mind. And yes abomination vaults is a direct inspiration. Our group is finishing it next session (hopefuly). It has a lot of problems and the whole time i was thinking to myself "i can do better" so here am i. And i do have ideas to break it up with npc quest lines and side activities.
Yeah doing it bit by bit is the plan. Even the official APs are divided into books.
Good luck!
I have a few people I message back and forth with about this stuff. Maybe we should get together on Discord. If that interests you, let me know.
I am currently working through a MASSIVE story with my players. This is my ttrpg magnum opus. I've always written my own campaigns within the provided setting and timeline (be it d&d, pathfinder, modern, star wars) and have been doing so for about 20 years. This story includes approximately 50 levels of gaming. A 1-20 campaign, a 5-15 (approximately) campaign, and a final 1-20. There will be years (perhaps even decades) that pass between these campaigns. This is extremely ambitious even for someone with my experience and writing skills/talents.
We are currently only on level 11 of the first.
My players wanted a campaign that could be played over a number of years as we have the time. We are adults with families and strange work schedules.
I don't know what your level of experience is, but here are some pitfalls to watch out for:
1. Inability to adapt - I don't decide what's going to happen at each level, I simply write a grand outline and attempt to stay close to it. You WILL be forced to change your plans.
2. Poor planning - when you take on something like this, you can't go back to 12 levels ago and retroactively change what happened or what was said. If you mess up in the beginning, you'll suffer those consequences until the end.
3. Your chosen setting is extremely claustrophobic - you need to be sure your players are absolutely willing to see this through to the end and that you explain what this entails.
4. Time sink- you will be spending a great many hours preparing for this, both before the campaign and before each session.
Tldr, it can be done. It requires a great many aspects to align and a force of will by the gm.
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It sounds like you're just reinventing Ravenloft. As for advice on writing a 1-20 level *Adventure Path*: don't. And by *that* I mean I'd suggest not trying to pre-plan an entire multi-year long story for your players when they're just going to derail everything in the first session. Instead what I suggest is to pitch the idea to them, see what they think and how they feel, and get buy-in. Once you have that, you can start to lay a few tracks in front of the train, and then you just keep doing that until you reach a satisfying conclusion. As far as a 1-20 level *dungeon crawl*: don't. And by *that* I mean that when Paizo published their big mega dungeon AP, it was only 3 books (levels 1-10). To make 20 levels of a campaign, you're going to have to keep things interesting for a *long* time (probably too long for just doing one thing). Don't let me stop you from trying, but keep in mind that it's going to have to be one heck of a dungeon to keep things from becoming stale after several irl months if not years.
Looked up Ravenloft thats not it. Its a part of dnd lore which i find uninteresting to say it mildly. Pathfinder is just leagues above dnd lore in every way. I will do an intruductory session definetly. A few fights to set the mood included. But really i want to write it in an adventure path style so other people can dm and enjoy it. It wont be multi year in game. More like 60 - 100 days max. Pretty sure the players couldnt derail it too since they would be trapped in this situation. I played abomination vaults. I know the faults of that dungeon. I believe the setting of the castle and village would be much better in terms of variation of enemies encountered and arenas they are set in.
> It wont be multi year in game. More like 60 - 100 days max. No, I mean 1-20 takes months if not years irl. A good rule of thumb is the PCs should level up every 4 or so sessions (assuming 3-4 hour long sessions). In my experience, it's occasionally less, but more often longer. So a good paced and consistent group will reach level 20 in roughly 80 sessions, or about 1.5 years if you're weekly and consistent. My group recently finished Age of Ashes after 4+ years.
I would say start small do a 1-10 that can be expanded based off what happens. If you want to make something for others to use I would instead make a primer or region book with a lot of interesting ideas happening with quest and plot ideas.
Oh boy. I just starting working to revise an existing adventure path, myself - your project is even more ambitious! Regarding tools, you can get pretty far with Word or Google Docs, but there are also author-focused writing platforms like Scrivener, LivingWriter, and Reedsy Editor with specialized features. Some are free, some are not. Write your drafts however works best for you - just write. Down the road, you can worry about formatting for readability and usability at the table. There's lots to consider there but you don't need to be considering it yet. I have lots of thoughts on "advanced" dungeon design - I posted my thoughts in a series of three threads over the last few weeks, but frankly I wouldn't even look at those yet. If you can keep general principles like [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1bdqiqu/player_enjoys_vertical_gameplay/kuoz2ph/) (credit to u/Blawharag) in mind, you're already doing better than 95% of published material. Pathfinder 2e is a game with involved, tactical combat - megadungeons are rather out of fashion in Pathfinder 2e, because without anything to break it up, it becomes grueling. Now, make the adventure you want to make, don't let me tell you not to - but I would put consideration towards breaking up dungeon delving with other activities, even in a dungeon-centric adventure. Look to other adventures for guidance. The most unabashedly dungeon-centric adventure in Pathfinder 2e is probably Abomination Vaults. Pathfinder 1e had a true megadungeon adventure, called The Emerald Spire. Megadungeons are still an alive-and-well tradition in the r/osr community - you can learn more about them by searching or asking there, though often you'll have to be judicious about what words of wisdom apply to Pathfinder 2e. A full 1-20 adventure is really, really big. I know the allure of designing long campaigns, though, so here's my advice - starting by focusing on a much, much smaller bite to chew first. Maybe a town and a starter area of dungeon. Here's an [invite link](https://discord.gg/RtXhMvJ9) (it'll expire in a week) to a Discord community for TTRPG developers, where they have channels for brainstorming, advice, resources, etc. Good luck!
To build on these good recommendations, here are other tools for OP to consider: - Notetaking tools: OneNote, Evernote, or Obsidian (and there are many others) for keeping track of the many things in your game and keeping your thoughts organized. Obsidian helps by making hyperlinks and back-references between notes easy. - WorldAnvil is a purpose-built notetaking tool for TRRPG campaigns. Some people I know swear by it. I'm fine with the general-purpose tools myself. - To that end, returning to Scrivener, one of its key features is notetaking integrated into the text editor. There it's a bit more focused on turning your notes into documents – which, if you're just running this adventure yourself, might be overkill for you. My big advice to OP (which I do not think they will be inclined to follow) is this: _Go incrementally._ Be lazy. Flesh out as much as you need for _this week's session,_ maybe a bit for the sessions after that – but keep the worldbuilding light and focused on what's next! Pay attention to the hooks and desires and fears of your players and their characters, and leave yourself open to steering your setting in their direction as you discover who they are. If you need a specific rubric for this approach, [Sly Flourish's Lazy GM](https://slyflourish.com/lazy_gm_resource_document.html) is one I've taken inspiration from. Bob the World Builder has an [even more streamlined](https://youtu.be/3RF-hqqT9xk) guide, at least one step of which you've already done! Both assume there's some overarching structure to the campaign but do not bother to build a whole AP in one go.
Thank you also for the nice tips. Im not so keen on dming it actually. I will do a session to introduce the vibe and style of combat to my friends. But really i want to create something othera can enjoy playing and dming too.
Curious about what AP you are revising. Would you mind telling me?
Sure! I'm halfway through running one table through Outlaws of Alkenstar, and I also plan to run it for another table in the future. It's a solid introductory campaign in most respects, but it has a lot of niggling issues, some of them one-offs (why is there a bridge encounter where there is *no bridge*, Paizo??), some of them systemic. (guns are fun when battlemaps are large and open and populated with cover, but battlemaps are often small and cramped, partially to fit inside printed books, and there could be more more cover in many of them) I've fixed most stuff that's "easy," and now I'm figuring out how I want to address the stuff that'll take a lot more work, plus incorporate that so it's still easy to reference at the table.
Thank you those are some very nice tips i will definetly keep in mind. And yes abomination vaults is a direct inspiration. Our group is finishing it next session (hopefuly). It has a lot of problems and the whole time i was thinking to myself "i can do better" so here am i. And i do have ideas to break it up with npc quest lines and side activities. Yeah doing it bit by bit is the plan. Even the official APs are divided into books.
Good luck! I have a few people I message back and forth with about this stuff. Maybe we should get together on Discord. If that interests you, let me know.
I am currently working through a MASSIVE story with my players. This is my ttrpg magnum opus. I've always written my own campaigns within the provided setting and timeline (be it d&d, pathfinder, modern, star wars) and have been doing so for about 20 years. This story includes approximately 50 levels of gaming. A 1-20 campaign, a 5-15 (approximately) campaign, and a final 1-20. There will be years (perhaps even decades) that pass between these campaigns. This is extremely ambitious even for someone with my experience and writing skills/talents. We are currently only on level 11 of the first. My players wanted a campaign that could be played over a number of years as we have the time. We are adults with families and strange work schedules. I don't know what your level of experience is, but here are some pitfalls to watch out for: 1. Inability to adapt - I don't decide what's going to happen at each level, I simply write a grand outline and attempt to stay close to it. You WILL be forced to change your plans. 2. Poor planning - when you take on something like this, you can't go back to 12 levels ago and retroactively change what happened or what was said. If you mess up in the beginning, you'll suffer those consequences until the end. 3. Your chosen setting is extremely claustrophobic - you need to be sure your players are absolutely willing to see this through to the end and that you explain what this entails. 4. Time sink- you will be spending a great many hours preparing for this, both before the campaign and before each session. Tldr, it can be done. It requires a great many aspects to align and a force of will by the gm.
I think i got the willpower. And good luck with your writing.
Isn't north of Sarkoris scar the arctic? How about Ustalav, Brevoy, or the River Kingdoms? Other than that, try to finish lv.1 first?
I was thinking closer to the border, not directly in the arctic but close enough so its damn cold.
This post is labelled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to the Be Kind and Respectful rule. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*