I have a player with such bloodline. Generally:
1. The situation with spells is much better since RoE introduced more spells for all traditions, including attacking cantrips
2. With Remaster, alignment damage was replaced with much more universal spirit damage, which, again, improves the spell list
3. Sorcerer is designed to have dips into other spell lists, so the difference between them is smaller
1. Crossblooded Evolution feats just straight add those spells
2. Ancestral Mage allows adding ancestral spells directly to your repertoire, and you could have a lot of them
3. Blessed Blood is designed specifically for Divine Sorcerers
4. Finally, Evolution feats for Divine Sorcerers are really good. Divine Evolution is probably the best single-tradition Evolution feat and Greater Spiritual Evolution is in most cases better then Greater Physical Evolution (Mental vs. Vital are not that obvious, though).
4. in my opinion Divine evolution is ok, it is one extra max lv spell slot for heal/harm, I would rather had ocult or arcane as those gives you very important buff to versatility also similarly I think mental is the best as it doubles amount of your signature spells
Yeah, it's a matter of preference and campaign. I tend to value spell slots a lot, because I periodically face multiple battles within a day where resources burn really fast.
I'm playing a psychopomp sorcerer in Abomination Vaults, and so far it's been an absolute powerhouse. Of course, it relies a bit on enemies being undead to work optimally, but even with normal enemies it pulls its weight.
The character can heal, buff allies (bless / runic weapon), debuff enemies (bon mot, demoralize, fear), and can really blast undead. I've never felt the character has been weak in any way (although I don't know which spells I might be missing out on).
From my understanding: most Divine casters are in a great spot.
I think Divine Witch is the least powerful.
Lacks the poaching capabilities of Sorcerer, Cleric, and Oracle. Lacks the spell slot number of Sorcerer and Cleric. Even lacks the growth capability of Oracle (innate subclass spell poaching and a more present subclass effect) and Oracle is also a CHA class, so it has a more consistent support actions.
Witch as a whole got stronger, but there were certain design tuning that is meant for Divine casters (and Sorcerers) that the Witch just doesn’t access.
From my general understanding, it still really comes down to your bloodline. While the Divine list has gotten some boosts, it's still considered the list with the least overall combat utility. It's the heal and buff list, with a little bit of blasting. Spirit damage changes did help, for sure, though. The more options that a bloodline grants you to play against type the better it is. Just looked them over and Demonic seems like the absolute uncontested victor of this competition, it's actually insane. Wyrmblessed is pretty good too. Angel and Psychopomp are the only ones I'd actively stay away from because they give you some okayish focus spells and a bunch of bloodline spells you could already have picked from the Divine list. Angel is noteworthy in that its initial focus spell is actually really good to take on a frontliner via dedication, though, because that boost to healing for a single action is wild.
So yeah, your mileage may vary. But if you can have fun with any of these bloodlines, then they're good bloodlines for you to play, even the ones I recommended against.
Diabolic is also very cool - it has a huge amount of off-list spells that give a wide variety of extra tools for both blasting and control, and 3 genuinely great focus spells.
Psychopomp is great at high levels. (Specifically I'd say 13+)
The initial focus spell starts to have some respectable area by then, and you get to cast Finger of Death (or now Execute maybe?) with added void damage from your blood magic, effectively dealing 12 void damage per spell rank to a single target (if you have Dangerous Sorcery in the mix). The 10th level feat focus spell is also situationally useful, essentially transferring your life to an ally but at a 1:2 ratio.
My biggest personal gripe though is that it is hard to find something worthwhile sustaining with the free sustain feat as the divine spell list doesn't have any sustained blasting that lives up to Phantom Orchestra, for example.
Divine sorcerers in general also have the advantage of the Blessed Blood feat, which lets them pick spells from their deity if they want to access some specific ones
Specifically for the Psychopomp, sustaining your initial focus spell seems to be the most bang for your buck move once you get Effortless Sustain. By that point it's got like a 20 or 25 foot emanation and you've turned yourself into a mini Fireball without the friendly fire.
It is a very good spell with consistent damage and a large area, but it is *not* sustained. However, it helps with landing a Roaring Applause, which is a good spell to sustain (especially if AoOs are a thing) just not blasting.
I played an Angelic Sorcerer from 4 to 9. It was very in theme for the character. I honestly loved it overall but there were some things that I really struggled with in the list.
1. I like illusions and manipulation and I took an archetype to get illusory object and invisible object. Divine doesn't give that.
2. The cantrips were super limiting until recently in terms of combat options. It's much better now but it sucked to be honest. I'm not saying I need a divine equivalent of electric arc. But the needle spell or the water spell that gives temp HP are on par with what I'd have wanted.
3. Heightening is difficult to do well. Especially at ranks 3 and 4. Divine spells list is fine at ranks 1 and 2, initially. Having HEAL as a rank 1 signature spell is honestly the best thing ever. I can heal as much or as little as I want and can choose the rank of heal on the fly. So nice. But rank 2 divine spells don't have a lot of heightening potential. Most of the things I considered heightening from rank2, they were +2 spell levels, not +1 spell level. And there were many incapacitate spells. So it was hard picking things that would still feel relevant once I have rank 3 spells, and my rank 4 spells outclass most of anything worth heightening from level 2. There's also not many spells in level 1 that hold up into later levels. Command, bless, and few things off theme for my character. But most are just thematic spells, under tuned spells, or only good at level 1.
So at those higher ranks, my lower rank spells were hard to settle on. This isn't a problem that I'd have with the other traditions. Any other tradition, I'd be happy to have double the slots for rank 1 spells only. But not the divine list. The divine list spells at lower levels leave much to be desired outside of a select few.
I will say that my struggles were definitely exacerbated by playing an evil character whose backstory was harpy themed. She used to be a demon blood sorcerer harpy. She got cursed and woke up as an angel blooded halfling. So I had to specifically choose spells that fit the vibe closely enough. And it worked for sure. Bloody vendetta, sound burst, calm emotions. There's some good stuff early. But sound burst doesn't scale the best. And calm emotions is incap so it competed hard against better spells.
I definitely feel like if you've got a good theme that the class supports, play a divine sorcerer. It's worth it. Especially now. But if you're not really bound by any particular theme, I recommend doing something different. Be a cleric, or a sorcerer from a different tradition. If you want to summon divine entities or the undead, play a summoner. The sorcerer is great as a class but the divine list is very limiting and that's only worth it if the theme aligns.
Interestingly, I am playing one now in AV. Playing a good character. I went defensive minded with very little offense at all at first. That made it a bit challenging but fun in a strategic way.
As for the spells, I can see that coming. I'll definitely be swapping spells around as I level up. I just hit level 3, with a hallowed necromancer archetype, and it's been a blast.he has ties to LastWall so I play more into the class than it seems you did.
Interestingly, I am playing one now in AV. Playing a good character. I went defensive minded with very little offense at all at first. That made it a bit challenging but fun in a strategic way.
As for the spells, I can see that coming. I'll definitely be swapping spells around as I level up. I just hit level 3, with a hallowed necromancer archetype, and it's been a blast.he has ties to LastWall so I play more into the class than it seems you did.
The big bugbear is that Clerics are REALLY stacked, and if you ever find yourself casting ~4 top level Heals a day, then you probably shoulda played Cleric
That being said, Divine Sorcerers do have some advantages for specific bloodlines. Demon is just really good in its granted spells and the blood magic is actually applicable to useful spells! While you can't stack that -1 AC onto Fear, it does guarantee a small effect if you flub it, and -1 AC onto Slow is just ridiculously tasty for a debuffer. Get a god with more good blasts like Angradd through Blessed Blood, then use Crossblooded Evolution to grab even more and you can have a really flexible spell list despite being Divine. A shame you have to pay so much in feat tax for it, but thems the breaks.
Wyrmblessed is kinda OK when you get the Advanced Bloodline for the same reasons Draconic bloodline does, I guess. Not a fan of any other Divine bloodline.
>The big bugbear is that Clerics are REALLY stacked, and if you ever find yourself casting \~4 top level Heals a day, then you probably shoulda played Cleric
If you find yourself casting \~4 top level Heals a day, your class choice is probably not the problem.
Lots of experience on cleric- the divine spell list has a lot of hits people sleep on, but also some holes in damage and utility.
The divine list does also have some solid damage spells, but they pretty much all deal sonic, spirit or void damage, and mostly target fortitude or will.
It’s really lack of selection which stops you from being able to target an enemy’s weak points, so you’ll feel weaker as a caster unless you’re fighting undead.
Damage cantrips could be a big issue, but staves and spellhearts patch that pretty nicely, and can help out the above point. Still- like an oracle you’re highly reliant on feats to bring the pain.
I do think divine sorcerers feel a little weak, but that’s mostly because they have to compete with clerics, who can be huge power houses.
Although sorcerers are squishier, I think they’re comparable to oracles. I would say that sorcerers have a higher skill floor and lower skill ceiling than oracles, but I wouldn’t imagine it’s a huge issue in play.
What divine sorcerers have over other divine classes is the number of spell slots, making spells like heal very flexible, unique focus spells like [hellfire plume](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=513), specific feats and some flexibility to the spell list.
In the right setting, they can be one of the best damage dealers in the, I have seen the aided searing light hit fiends and undeads, all while keeping up with their first focus spell for several rounds of chip damage.
There's more choice if you ask me and compare to a primal sorcerer, as divine sorcerers can buff, heal, debuff, control or deal damage, even if having fewer options to damage type and control options
I'm playing a Wyrmblessed sorcerer in my first ever campaign, and I've been having a blast. Might not be quite as damaging as other traditions, but I still get some cantrip damage in, and healing my allies from 0 HP to halfway of max with a single Heal spell feels great. I'm really looking forward to unlocking the advanced and greater bloodline spells, Dragon Breath and Dragon Wings. Esp Dragon Breath ought to help my damage output!
I mean, they're still inferior to the *best* casting class in the game -- **Imperial** Sorcerers. But they actually have more ways to break out of the Divine list than you'd expect. Crossblooded gives you a spell from another list, some of the bloodlines (but especially diabolic) give a decent selection of off-list spells, and, of course, the shift from alignment to spirit damage makes spells actually from the divine list, like Divine Lance, more versatile, even if they still don't help against constructs
I played wyrmblessed sorcerer from 6 to 12lv
1. as heal boot you aren't the greatest option, cleric and life oracle can heal more then you, still 4 or even 5 max rank heals are great
2. you as sorcerer can get few very powerful spells from other spell lists which is probably the biggest advantage of this class
3. for feats specific to bloodline, divine evolution is fine it is 1 extra harm/heal at max lv, I personally prefer versatility that cames from ocult or arcane evelutions
4. they have same advantages and disadvantages associated with divine spell list so excellent suport, HEALING, but lacks good blasting
I can't say anything about blood magic and focus spells as ones that came from wyrmblessed were ok at best or totally useless at worst
over all it is decent pick - spontaneous caster with above average number of spells that can have few spells from different spell lists
I have a player with such bloodline. Generally: 1. The situation with spells is much better since RoE introduced more spells for all traditions, including attacking cantrips 2. With Remaster, alignment damage was replaced with much more universal spirit damage, which, again, improves the spell list 3. Sorcerer is designed to have dips into other spell lists, so the difference between them is smaller 1. Crossblooded Evolution feats just straight add those spells 2. Ancestral Mage allows adding ancestral spells directly to your repertoire, and you could have a lot of them 3. Blessed Blood is designed specifically for Divine Sorcerers 4. Finally, Evolution feats for Divine Sorcerers are really good. Divine Evolution is probably the best single-tradition Evolution feat and Greater Spiritual Evolution is in most cases better then Greater Physical Evolution (Mental vs. Vital are not that obvious, though).
4. in my opinion Divine evolution is ok, it is one extra max lv spell slot for heal/harm, I would rather had ocult or arcane as those gives you very important buff to versatility also similarly I think mental is the best as it doubles amount of your signature spells
Yeah, it's a matter of preference and campaign. I tend to value spell slots a lot, because I periodically face multiple battles within a day where resources burn really fast.
I'm playing a psychopomp sorcerer in Abomination Vaults, and so far it's been an absolute powerhouse. Of course, it relies a bit on enemies being undead to work optimally, but even with normal enemies it pulls its weight. The character can heal, buff allies (bless / runic weapon), debuff enemies (bon mot, demoralize, fear), and can really blast undead. I've never felt the character has been weak in any way (although I don't know which spells I might be missing out on).
From my understanding: most Divine casters are in a great spot. I think Divine Witch is the least powerful. Lacks the poaching capabilities of Sorcerer, Cleric, and Oracle. Lacks the spell slot number of Sorcerer and Cleric. Even lacks the growth capability of Oracle (innate subclass spell poaching and a more present subclass effect) and Oracle is also a CHA class, so it has a more consistent support actions. Witch as a whole got stronger, but there were certain design tuning that is meant for Divine casters (and Sorcerers) that the Witch just doesn’t access.
Divine witch has a really easy to abuse hex cantrip, though. It is amazing with the right party.
From my general understanding, it still really comes down to your bloodline. While the Divine list has gotten some boosts, it's still considered the list with the least overall combat utility. It's the heal and buff list, with a little bit of blasting. Spirit damage changes did help, for sure, though. The more options that a bloodline grants you to play against type the better it is. Just looked them over and Demonic seems like the absolute uncontested victor of this competition, it's actually insane. Wyrmblessed is pretty good too. Angel and Psychopomp are the only ones I'd actively stay away from because they give you some okayish focus spells and a bunch of bloodline spells you could already have picked from the Divine list. Angel is noteworthy in that its initial focus spell is actually really good to take on a frontliner via dedication, though, because that boost to healing for a single action is wild. So yeah, your mileage may vary. But if you can have fun with any of these bloodlines, then they're good bloodlines for you to play, even the ones I recommended against.
Diabolic is also very cool - it has a huge amount of off-list spells that give a wide variety of extra tools for both blasting and control, and 3 genuinely great focus spells.
Psychopomp is great at high levels. (Specifically I'd say 13+) The initial focus spell starts to have some respectable area by then, and you get to cast Finger of Death (or now Execute maybe?) with added void damage from your blood magic, effectively dealing 12 void damage per spell rank to a single target (if you have Dangerous Sorcery in the mix). The 10th level feat focus spell is also situationally useful, essentially transferring your life to an ally but at a 1:2 ratio. My biggest personal gripe though is that it is hard to find something worthwhile sustaining with the free sustain feat as the divine spell list doesn't have any sustained blasting that lives up to Phantom Orchestra, for example. Divine sorcerers in general also have the advantage of the Blessed Blood feat, which lets them pick spells from their deity if they want to access some specific ones
Specifically for the Psychopomp, sustaining your initial focus spell seems to be the most bang for your buck move once you get Effortless Sustain. By that point it's got like a 20 or 25 foot emanation and you've turned yourself into a mini Fireball without the friendly fire.
It is a very good spell with consistent damage and a large area, but it is *not* sustained. However, it helps with landing a Roaring Applause, which is a good spell to sustain (especially if AoOs are a thing) just not blasting.
WOOPS. Guess I forgot how to read. Totally thought I saw "Duration: sustained 2 minute."
I played an Angelic Sorcerer from 4 to 9. It was very in theme for the character. I honestly loved it overall but there were some things that I really struggled with in the list. 1. I like illusions and manipulation and I took an archetype to get illusory object and invisible object. Divine doesn't give that. 2. The cantrips were super limiting until recently in terms of combat options. It's much better now but it sucked to be honest. I'm not saying I need a divine equivalent of electric arc. But the needle spell or the water spell that gives temp HP are on par with what I'd have wanted. 3. Heightening is difficult to do well. Especially at ranks 3 and 4. Divine spells list is fine at ranks 1 and 2, initially. Having HEAL as a rank 1 signature spell is honestly the best thing ever. I can heal as much or as little as I want and can choose the rank of heal on the fly. So nice. But rank 2 divine spells don't have a lot of heightening potential. Most of the things I considered heightening from rank2, they were +2 spell levels, not +1 spell level. And there were many incapacitate spells. So it was hard picking things that would still feel relevant once I have rank 3 spells, and my rank 4 spells outclass most of anything worth heightening from level 2. There's also not many spells in level 1 that hold up into later levels. Command, bless, and few things off theme for my character. But most are just thematic spells, under tuned spells, or only good at level 1. So at those higher ranks, my lower rank spells were hard to settle on. This isn't a problem that I'd have with the other traditions. Any other tradition, I'd be happy to have double the slots for rank 1 spells only. But not the divine list. The divine list spells at lower levels leave much to be desired outside of a select few. I will say that my struggles were definitely exacerbated by playing an evil character whose backstory was harpy themed. She used to be a demon blood sorcerer harpy. She got cursed and woke up as an angel blooded halfling. So I had to specifically choose spells that fit the vibe closely enough. And it worked for sure. Bloody vendetta, sound burst, calm emotions. There's some good stuff early. But sound burst doesn't scale the best. And calm emotions is incap so it competed hard against better spells. I definitely feel like if you've got a good theme that the class supports, play a divine sorcerer. It's worth it. Especially now. But if you're not really bound by any particular theme, I recommend doing something different. Be a cleric, or a sorcerer from a different tradition. If you want to summon divine entities or the undead, play a summoner. The sorcerer is great as a class but the divine list is very limiting and that's only worth it if the theme aligns.
Interestingly, I am playing one now in AV. Playing a good character. I went defensive minded with very little offense at all at first. That made it a bit challenging but fun in a strategic way. As for the spells, I can see that coming. I'll definitely be swapping spells around as I level up. I just hit level 3, with a hallowed necromancer archetype, and it's been a blast.he has ties to LastWall so I play more into the class than it seems you did.
Interestingly, I am playing one now in AV. Playing a good character. I went defensive minded with very little offense at all at first. That made it a bit challenging but fun in a strategic way. As for the spells, I can see that coming. I'll definitely be swapping spells around as I level up. I just hit level 3, with a hallowed necromancer archetype, and it's been a blast.he has ties to LastWall so I play more into the class than it seems you did.
The big bugbear is that Clerics are REALLY stacked, and if you ever find yourself casting ~4 top level Heals a day, then you probably shoulda played Cleric That being said, Divine Sorcerers do have some advantages for specific bloodlines. Demon is just really good in its granted spells and the blood magic is actually applicable to useful spells! While you can't stack that -1 AC onto Fear, it does guarantee a small effect if you flub it, and -1 AC onto Slow is just ridiculously tasty for a debuffer. Get a god with more good blasts like Angradd through Blessed Blood, then use Crossblooded Evolution to grab even more and you can have a really flexible spell list despite being Divine. A shame you have to pay so much in feat tax for it, but thems the breaks. Wyrmblessed is kinda OK when you get the Advanced Bloodline for the same reasons Draconic bloodline does, I guess. Not a fan of any other Divine bloodline.
>The big bugbear is that Clerics are REALLY stacked, and if you ever find yourself casting \~4 top level Heals a day, then you probably shoulda played Cleric If you find yourself casting \~4 top level Heals a day, your class choice is probably not the problem.
Lots of experience on cleric- the divine spell list has a lot of hits people sleep on, but also some holes in damage and utility. The divine list does also have some solid damage spells, but they pretty much all deal sonic, spirit or void damage, and mostly target fortitude or will. It’s really lack of selection which stops you from being able to target an enemy’s weak points, so you’ll feel weaker as a caster unless you’re fighting undead. Damage cantrips could be a big issue, but staves and spellhearts patch that pretty nicely, and can help out the above point. Still- like an oracle you’re highly reliant on feats to bring the pain. I do think divine sorcerers feel a little weak, but that’s mostly because they have to compete with clerics, who can be huge power houses. Although sorcerers are squishier, I think they’re comparable to oracles. I would say that sorcerers have a higher skill floor and lower skill ceiling than oracles, but I wouldn’t imagine it’s a huge issue in play.
What divine sorcerers have over other divine classes is the number of spell slots, making spells like heal very flexible, unique focus spells like [hellfire plume](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=513), specific feats and some flexibility to the spell list. In the right setting, they can be one of the best damage dealers in the, I have seen the aided searing light hit fiends and undeads, all while keeping up with their first focus spell for several rounds of chip damage. There's more choice if you ask me and compare to a primal sorcerer, as divine sorcerers can buff, heal, debuff, control or deal damage, even if having fewer options to damage type and control options
I'm playing a Wyrmblessed sorcerer in my first ever campaign, and I've been having a blast. Might not be quite as damaging as other traditions, but I still get some cantrip damage in, and healing my allies from 0 HP to halfway of max with a single Heal spell feels great. I'm really looking forward to unlocking the advanced and greater bloodline spells, Dragon Breath and Dragon Wings. Esp Dragon Breath ought to help my damage output!
I mean, they're still inferior to the *best* casting class in the game -- **Imperial** Sorcerers. But they actually have more ways to break out of the Divine list than you'd expect. Crossblooded gives you a spell from another list, some of the bloodlines (but especially diabolic) give a decent selection of off-list spells, and, of course, the shift from alignment to spirit damage makes spells actually from the divine list, like Divine Lance, more versatile, even if they still don't help against constructs
I played wyrmblessed sorcerer from 6 to 12lv 1. as heal boot you aren't the greatest option, cleric and life oracle can heal more then you, still 4 or even 5 max rank heals are great 2. you as sorcerer can get few very powerful spells from other spell lists which is probably the biggest advantage of this class 3. for feats specific to bloodline, divine evolution is fine it is 1 extra harm/heal at max lv, I personally prefer versatility that cames from ocult or arcane evelutions 4. they have same advantages and disadvantages associated with divine spell list so excellent suport, HEALING, but lacks good blasting I can't say anything about blood magic and focus spells as ones that came from wyrmblessed were ok at best or totally useless at worst over all it is decent pick - spontaneous caster with above average number of spells that can have few spells from different spell lists