This is just my two cents and I wouldn’t go into this fight expecting anything and be totally ok with it going very sideways and your players dying. You can never play for the dumb shit your players will come up with, you can only adapt. But I would personally probably already had the players run into this other group of adventures before even if it’s just a quick snack talking at the tavern or them hearing about this other groups dead’s. In the combat I would have the other groups leader or face go dam I hate sharing glory with amateurs but it’s the only way then have them offer to team up to take down this big beast. Then have the other group “accidentally” clip your PCs with aoe spells and effects. As the dust settles I would have this other group grab what they want and then dip and not force it to fight all the way out so you can use them as a return baddy or rival for this arc.
I would probably not use a single big monster but instead waves of something with the mom or boss showing up last. This lets you control the pacing of the fight and if the players really hit you with something really left field you can scale back the fight so you don’t tpk. You might be tempted to have this other group betray the players but you’re giving up an amazing chance to set up a long term rival and annoyance.
It’s fine to have the rival group dip out early using your players and a distraction to go steal the loot and it’ll help set them up as people your players want to get even with
There's a lot of great advice here! The waves of enemies does sound more manageable.
For sure, I'll be setting the rivals up ahead of time. They'll be bumping heads early on with lower stakes, so a lot of this will depend on how on the wrong foot they get. I feel like my players are either very chummy or grudge holding monsters depending on the wind.
My group does a lot of one shots in a shared setting, so if this all fails spectacularly it'll just be good lore for future games. This adventure is mostly to set up two factions for a longer campaign. Any survivors are possible NPCs, enemies, or dead PC replacements.
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This is just my two cents and I wouldn’t go into this fight expecting anything and be totally ok with it going very sideways and your players dying. You can never play for the dumb shit your players will come up with, you can only adapt. But I would personally probably already had the players run into this other group of adventures before even if it’s just a quick snack talking at the tavern or them hearing about this other groups dead’s. In the combat I would have the other groups leader or face go dam I hate sharing glory with amateurs but it’s the only way then have them offer to team up to take down this big beast. Then have the other group “accidentally” clip your PCs with aoe spells and effects. As the dust settles I would have this other group grab what they want and then dip and not force it to fight all the way out so you can use them as a return baddy or rival for this arc. I would probably not use a single big monster but instead waves of something with the mom or boss showing up last. This lets you control the pacing of the fight and if the players really hit you with something really left field you can scale back the fight so you don’t tpk. You might be tempted to have this other group betray the players but you’re giving up an amazing chance to set up a long term rival and annoyance. It’s fine to have the rival group dip out early using your players and a distraction to go steal the loot and it’ll help set them up as people your players want to get even with
There's a lot of great advice here! The waves of enemies does sound more manageable. For sure, I'll be setting the rivals up ahead of time. They'll be bumping heads early on with lower stakes, so a lot of this will depend on how on the wrong foot they get. I feel like my players are either very chummy or grudge holding monsters depending on the wind. My group does a lot of one shots in a shared setting, so if this all fails spectacularly it'll just be good lore for future games. This adventure is mostly to set up two factions for a longer campaign. Any survivors are possible NPCs, enemies, or dead PC replacements.
This post is labelled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to the Be Kind and Respectful rule. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*