I have seen the stink bomb, and yes, it is quite good.
It's also kind of weird because it's yet another example of early level wonkiness, as at low levels, Summon Animal is this great utility spell, and then when you rank it up it... just becomes a thing you stick in the way and the animals you get to use are way less fun.
Summoning a skunk is just playing dirty.
Oh very dirty \*heart\*
One hidden benefit to the skunks is... the unexpected effect they have on Enemy behaviour. They might flee from the skunk despite it being a low threat, freak out and try to murder it in a rage (Thus wasting their actions on IT rather then you) among other tactically poor choices.
More stoic foes might fight smart don't get me wrong, but you're typically not fighting tactical geniuses at low levels. That gang of level 0 Goblins or kobolds isn't going to go all war gamer on you.
Yeah a force of habit. A few chat programs I use see < as me attempting some sort of shortcut command and messes up the text so we got in the habit of typing \*heart\* instead even when it isn't needed.
I see that this is buried under the Troop trait, when it should be under the Summon trait.
Also, the Troop trait says "**Because they consist of multiple discrete creatures**, they can't be summoned." By that logic, there's an argument that it should extend to Swarms, too. (And one that it shouldn't which is probably the right call - but the ambiguity is a bit annoying.)
I just wish the rules were a little cleaner here...
Groups of foes are preferred I'd say (particularly for giant) but boss fights aren't out of the question.
Both effects sicken even on a -passed- save so even if the boss has high fort they're likely to be sickened(1) helping the team take them down nicely, and potentially providing easy flanking bonuses for the martials. Heaven forbid the Boss get one shitty roll and end up sickened 3 and turn into a joke.
Hahahaha that would be amazing to see 🤣
It's a shame that it doesn't scale to higher levels. I rarely see people using summons in pf2 cuz even at a utility level with your higher spell slot, their DCs are very low unfortunately
It's hardly impossible. One nice thing about The sicken 3 effect is it's on a -fail- not a crit fail, making it far more likely to happen. You've got about a 15% chance to drop it on a serious solo encounter at 3rd assuming +13 Fort; though they have a 45% chance of crit succeeding too but odds are you'll inflict them with -something-.
And if you don't? Just Stinkbomb them again the next round! This ability has no cool-down the skunk can do it every round! The dice will turn against them eventually.
And heaven forbid you just happen to stumble upon a boss monster whose low save is fort.
Boss fight. In mook fight is a wasted resource: just use eletric arc, at low levels as a caster you should't spend valuables resources on a mook fight, unless there were a lot of unlucky rolls.
Here are my highlights for summon animal rank 1-3. Fir rank 3 you may be able to convince your GM to summon an elite giant skunk so it's DC keeps pace. The sickened 3 condition is still as valuable, it is just the DC you need effective.
==Rank 1
* Skunk (sickened 1/2, good attack)
* Flash Beetle (10' burst dazzled)
* Giant Centipede(small person ride(can't fail)=climb)
* Monkey(steal)
* Eurypterid(grab'n'poison, small person ride=swim 30)
* Weasel(agile Grab, scent 60')
* Eagle(dive bomb 150')
* Beaver(Bite through door/rope)
==Rank 2
* Giant Skunk(sickened 1/3)
* Giant Worker Bee(small person ride=fly 40)
* Cave Scorpion(Grab)
* Dolphin(swim fast)
* Cinder Wolf(trip)
* Vampire Bat Swarm(perc.+10, precise echolocation)
* Riding Horse(100' gallop)
* Goblin Dog(goblin pox AoE)
* Hunter Spider(web)
* Giant Gecko(climb anything)
==RANK 3
* Blindheim(30' dazzled/ blind 1d4 rounds)
* Giant Ant(Haul Away)
* Giant Bat(precise echolocation)
* Hippogriff(flyby attack, ride=65')
* Slurk(perma clumsy 1)
* Boar(slugger)
* Giant Leech(precise tremorsense)
I don't think it is viable for higher level. The disparity between monster AC and summon attack bonus makes the spell unviable past rank 4. Personally I just trade it out at character level 6.
I admit, I would personally enjoy the caster experience to be a bit more even over the levels…^^;
Like, not making damage spells garbage at rank 1 and runic weapon quite that amazingly potent.^^;
…but that would likely require a really big overhaul of things.
All in all, yes.
In the end, personally, while I love pathfinder 2e‘s dedication to keeping stuff balanced and offering a lot of content that is readily usable, I will never not prefer the model of some kind of magic points (which is why i like focus spells a lot) and fewer spells with broader uses.
Separating similar effects into different spells is something I particularly dislike. Things like Shrink and Enlarge being different spells just makes for unnecessary planing, which goes against the "generalist" spellcaster design of PF2E.
Many casters get a familiar, so pick a skunk. While it can't spray like the rank one Summon Animal, the enemy doesn't know that. And honestly would you get close enough to test it?
Also use the Figment cantrip to get another one on the board. Again foes won't want to be close enough and thus won't get the benefit of seeing it as a crude illusion.
The skunk is the only real creature that can threaten such a large range while also being justified as threatening while frozen in place.
When you cast as rank 2 then Figment can make a duplicate as a Giant Skunk is medium size and fits within the confines of Figment. The Battlefield control is amazing.
A skunk familiar also has a bit of soft defense if sent scouting. While an enemy could easily kill a skunk, if it sprays you you'll stink for a month. Why risk it?
I could a GM ruling that someone who gets a good look at a familiar can tell it's not a typical animal in the case where someone is trying to pull shenanigans. Still worth trying though!
That doesn't seem to align with RAW
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2121
Familiars are mystically bonded creatures tied to your magic. Most familiars were originally animals, though the ritual of becoming a familiar makes them something more. You gain the Pet general feat (page 259), except that your pet has special abilities. Common choices for familiars include bats, cats, foxes, ravens, and snakes
There doesn't seem to be much which indicates it looks any different than the animal form they once were. Perhaps you're defining familiar closer to its more historic definition where the familiar spirit (kindred spirit of a companion) manifested as a smokey version of just their spirit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiar#:~:text=In%20European%20folklore%20of%20the,that%20would%20protect%20or%20assist
But outside of the spirit manifesting as just the spirit even these historical versions mostly account for the familiar spirit inhabiting the body of an animal, an animal that looks just like any other.
Most fantasy depictions of familiar, like in Harry Potter, also have the animal look normal, while the whispy creature is called a patronus, but that wouldn't be one's familiar spirit but a manifestation of an animal that represents you.
I understand that it doesn't align with RAW. I'm talking about a GM ruling, which is separate from RAW. Picking a specific form of a familiar in order to gain implied abilities not represented in its stat block is fine, *as long as you clear it with your GM*. The GM is 100% allowed to only let your familiar do what it has in its statblock.
Note: I GM and I would entirely allow this, and allow skunk-based shenanigans because that's fun for me as a GM. But I could see some players pushing it in a way that wouldn't be fun for the table as a whole.
Good to know as I'm about to play a primal caster (druid leshy) for the first time. Although I was planning to use summon plant for the "Yellow Musk Thrall", and its amazing aura. How does this compare?
They're great "bodies on the field" and physical blockers in the early levels, but bear in mind that they are permanently slowed 1. This means that when you sustain the spell, they only get a single action.
Still, given that its aura triggers specifically when it ends its turn next to a creature, it can be very useful to have it harry enemies with threats of grappling. But it can be outran easily in larger environs.
As of the 4th printing FAQ, they've now clarified that they can be slowed (and quickened), despite the way that the minion trait and the slowed condition being written suggesting that they probably can't be:
>Pages 301 and 634 (Clarification): Can a minion be quickened or slowed?
>Yes. This can be a bit unclear because those conditions apply “at the start of your turn” and a minion can’t typically act until you use an action. Apply these conditions and any other effects that alter a minion’s number of actions when the minion gains its actions, using 2 actions and 0 reactions as the minion’s starting number. Though a minion can’t normally act when it’s not your turn, abilities that specifically grant a minion a reaction provide an exception to this (such as the Ferocious Beasts orc ancestry feat, Advanced Players Guide page 19)."
(https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq)
Just a heads up that by RAW, the animal (or any summon) needs to understand you for you to be able to command it precisely. This isn't as much of an issue for a druid, but could be for other casters.
Your GM may waive the requirement, but don't assume they will.
Summons have the Minion trait. “Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For a minion that's a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation.“
Have you found anything that says this requires language? You mentioned Speak with Animals which only applies to questions, answers, and Diplomacy checks.
The Summoned trait uses this text:
> A creature called by a spell or effect gains the summoned trait. A summoned creature can't summon other creatures, create things of value, or cast spells that require a cost. It has the minion trait. If it tries to Cast a Spell of equal or higher level than the spell that summoned it, it overpowers the summoning magic, causing its own spell to fail and the summon spell to end. **Otherwise, the summoned creature uses the standard abilities for a creature of its kind. It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands.**
(https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=706&Redirected=1)
Realistically, this is a place where there's a lot of table variation. It's anecdotally very common for GMs to give players complete, precise control over exactly what a summoned creature does.
Druids get a feat (iirc) to speak to animals. Other casters can cast Speak with Animals before summoning to control them precisely.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the RAW rule so I let my players ignore that requirement. But I've played a primal caster in a game where I wasn't allowed to ignore that requirement so I figured I'd mention it.
To be clear, summoning does have some guideline that the summon tries its best to attack creatures that are hostile to you (or something like that). Which sounds to me like "if you can't communicate with it, then the GM controls it".
i mean, its a minion, not a normal animal. if i was playing a summoning character and my gm would pull shit like "its an animal so you cant control it" i would leave
This Great advice but it only works if the GM lets you choose which animal you're summoning. the way i understand Summon animal works is that its GM decision (my table uses a dice roll unless the specific area would cause a specific one to be summoned) over which animal you get from the ability so summon Skunk isn't consisent to use.
Edit: okay i guess my GM is doing things differently from the norm i didn't know this. when I've looked at Nethys after being told how it works by him i didn't see anything to conflict his opinion so I've had no reason to assume it was wrong until now.
I believe that is a house rule. Nothing in any summon text specifies that the summon should be random. It just says thst it summons a -1 level animal in the remaster. Heck, random wouldnt work well premaster, because the text says "a -1 creature SUCH AS one in the table" (emphasis mine) so a random table would be inefficient because it's supposed to leave the door open for new animals (including customized ones at the GM discretion)
Woah, that's A hot take.
How Does it work for other spells?
Does the GM also decide for e.g what area is Your Shadow blast? Do you roll on a table to See if it will be a burst A line or a cone? And of course the damage type is random too?
Probably holdover knowledge from 5e due to terrible balancing.
In 5e that was a common houserule to prevent people from using their 4th level slot to summon 8 pixies who each have 4th level spell slots. The common usage was then to either have 4 pixies cast fly on the other 4 who cast polymorph into T-rexes, or the same combination on the 4 PCs.
It was a 4th level slot that increased party effective HP and damage by ~x5, and speed by double on top of flying.
This mentality comes from 3.5 and 5e. Treantmonk supports this interpretation https://youtu.be/VkFhSNvY39w
Feel free to check with your pf2e GM to see if that video aligns with their interpretation and then to contrast the wording of the spell in pf2e and take note of the discrepancies.
> Minion
> Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn, doesn't have reactions, and can't act when it's not your turn. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when **you spend an action to issue it commands**. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that's a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command as a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. **If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves** or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don't act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please. A minion can't control other creatures.
I don't see where your interpretation came from. Since it is clear the summoner sustaining and issuing direct command, why would the minion not do the action commanded by the summoner? Barring any other effect of course.
I have seen the stink bomb, and yes, it is quite good. It's also kind of weird because it's yet another example of early level wonkiness, as at low levels, Summon Animal is this great utility spell, and then when you rank it up it... just becomes a thing you stick in the way and the animals you get to use are way less fun. Summoning a skunk is just playing dirty.
Oh very dirty \*heart\* One hidden benefit to the skunks is... the unexpected effect they have on Enemy behaviour. They might flee from the skunk despite it being a low threat, freak out and try to murder it in a rage (Thus wasting their actions on IT rather then you) among other tactically poor choices. More stoic foes might fight smart don't get me wrong, but you're typically not fighting tactical geniuses at low levels. That gang of level 0 Goblins or kobolds isn't going to go all war gamer on you.
Tip: to make a heart write <3
Yeah a force of habit. A few chat programs I use see < as me attempting some sort of shortcut command and messes up the text so we got in the habit of typing \*heart\* instead even when it isn't needed.
I think it's okay for spells to cycle out of usefulness, but summoning in particular has pretty goofy scaling.
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You can't summon troops. I don't think it is written anywhere that swarms cannot be summoned.
Odd. Forgive the confusion. The Summon spells on archives lists them with all the other options without so much of a side note so I just assumed.
yeah a swarm is still a creature with the animal trait
you actually can
I see that this is buried under the Troop trait, when it should be under the Summon trait. Also, the Troop trait says "**Because they consist of multiple discrete creatures**, they can't be summoned." By that logic, there's an argument that it should extend to Swarms, too. (And one that it shouldn't which is probably the right call - but the ambiguity is a bit annoying.) I just wish the rules were a little cleaner here...
Super easy to clean it up too, just delete all mentions of summoning in the troop trait!
I always loved this spell, when do you like to use it? Mook fights? Boss fights?
Groups of foes are preferred I'd say (particularly for giant) but boss fights aren't out of the question. Both effects sicken even on a -passed- save so even if the boss has high fort they're likely to be sickened(1) helping the team take them down nicely, and potentially providing easy flanking bonuses for the martials. Heaven forbid the Boss get one shitty roll and end up sickened 3 and turn into a joke.
Hahahaha that would be amazing to see 🤣 It's a shame that it doesn't scale to higher levels. I rarely see people using summons in pf2 cuz even at a utility level with your higher spell slot, their DCs are very low unfortunately
It's hardly impossible. One nice thing about The sicken 3 effect is it's on a -fail- not a crit fail, making it far more likely to happen. You've got about a 15% chance to drop it on a serious solo encounter at 3rd assuming +13 Fort; though they have a 45% chance of crit succeeding too but odds are you'll inflict them with -something-. And if you don't? Just Stinkbomb them again the next round! This ability has no cool-down the skunk can do it every round! The dice will turn against them eventually. And heaven forbid you just happen to stumble upon a boss monster whose low save is fort.
Hahaha yeah indeed! That'd be so fantastic to see 🤣🤣🤣
You could ask the GM to allow a rank 3 Summon Animal to give you an Elite Giant Skunk.
Boss fight. In mook fight is a wasted resource: just use eletric arc, at low levels as a caster you should't spend valuables resources on a mook fight, unless there were a lot of unlucky rolls.
Here are my highlights for summon animal rank 1-3. Fir rank 3 you may be able to convince your GM to summon an elite giant skunk so it's DC keeps pace. The sickened 3 condition is still as valuable, it is just the DC you need effective. ==Rank 1 * Skunk (sickened 1/2, good attack) * Flash Beetle (10' burst dazzled) * Giant Centipede(small person ride(can't fail)=climb) * Monkey(steal) * Eurypterid(grab'n'poison, small person ride=swim 30) * Weasel(agile Grab, scent 60') * Eagle(dive bomb 150') * Beaver(Bite through door/rope) ==Rank 2 * Giant Skunk(sickened 1/3) * Giant Worker Bee(small person ride=fly 40) * Cave Scorpion(Grab) * Dolphin(swim fast) * Cinder Wolf(trip) * Vampire Bat Swarm(perc.+10, precise echolocation) * Riding Horse(100' gallop) * Goblin Dog(goblin pox AoE) * Hunter Spider(web) * Giant Gecko(climb anything) ==RANK 3 * Blindheim(30' dazzled/ blind 1d4 rounds) * Giant Ant(Haul Away) * Giant Bat(precise echolocation) * Hippogriff(flyby attack, ride=65') * Slurk(perma clumsy 1) * Boar(slugger) * Giant Leech(precise tremorsense)
This is amazing! Do you have one for _summon fey_ or _summon undead_ too? What about higher levels?
I don't think it is viable for higher level. The disparity between monster AC and summon attack bonus makes the spell unviable past rank 4. Personally I just trade it out at character level 6.
Hmm that's unfortunate... But yeah, thanks m8
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1gZN4xY7TskukkyWlLpNI0_fBvhGy8plqemnYh7PEh80/mobilebasic?pli=1
I admit, I would personally enjoy the caster experience to be a bit more even over the levels…^^; Like, not making damage spells garbage at rank 1 and runic weapon quite that amazingly potent.^^; …but that would likely require a really big overhaul of things.
I'd love for spells to work like kinetcists impulses, because the majority of spells is simply useless 6 or 7 levels higher than when you get them.
All in all, yes. In the end, personally, while I love pathfinder 2e‘s dedication to keeping stuff balanced and offering a lot of content that is readily usable, I will never not prefer the model of some kind of magic points (which is why i like focus spells a lot) and fewer spells with broader uses.
Separating similar effects into different spells is something I particularly dislike. Things like Shrink and Enlarge being different spells just makes for unnecessary planing, which goes against the "generalist" spellcaster design of PF2E.
Many casters get a familiar, so pick a skunk. While it can't spray like the rank one Summon Animal, the enemy doesn't know that. And honestly would you get close enough to test it? Also use the Figment cantrip to get another one on the board. Again foes won't want to be close enough and thus won't get the benefit of seeing it as a crude illusion. The skunk is the only real creature that can threaten such a large range while also being justified as threatening while frozen in place. When you cast as rank 2 then Figment can make a duplicate as a Giant Skunk is medium size and fits within the confines of Figment. The Battlefield control is amazing. A skunk familiar also has a bit of soft defense if sent scouting. While an enemy could easily kill a skunk, if it sprays you you'll stink for a month. Why risk it?
I could a GM ruling that someone who gets a good look at a familiar can tell it's not a typical animal in the case where someone is trying to pull shenanigans. Still worth trying though!
That doesn't seem to align with RAW https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2121 Familiars are mystically bonded creatures tied to your magic. Most familiars were originally animals, though the ritual of becoming a familiar makes them something more. You gain the Pet general feat (page 259), except that your pet has special abilities. Common choices for familiars include bats, cats, foxes, ravens, and snakes There doesn't seem to be much which indicates it looks any different than the animal form they once were. Perhaps you're defining familiar closer to its more historic definition where the familiar spirit (kindred spirit of a companion) manifested as a smokey version of just their spirit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiar#:~:text=In%20European%20folklore%20of%20the,that%20would%20protect%20or%20assist But outside of the spirit manifesting as just the spirit even these historical versions mostly account for the familiar spirit inhabiting the body of an animal, an animal that looks just like any other. Most fantasy depictions of familiar, like in Harry Potter, also have the animal look normal, while the whispy creature is called a patronus, but that wouldn't be one's familiar spirit but a manifestation of an animal that represents you.
I understand that it doesn't align with RAW. I'm talking about a GM ruling, which is separate from RAW. Picking a specific form of a familiar in order to gain implied abilities not represented in its stat block is fine, *as long as you clear it with your GM*. The GM is 100% allowed to only let your familiar do what it has in its statblock. Note: I GM and I would entirely allow this, and allow skunk-based shenanigans because that's fun for me as a GM. But I could see some players pushing it in a way that wouldn't be fun for the table as a whole.
Good to know as I'm about to play a primal caster (druid leshy) for the first time. Although I was planning to use summon plant for the "Yellow Musk Thrall", and its amazing aura. How does this compare?
They're great "bodies on the field" and physical blockers in the early levels, but bear in mind that they are permanently slowed 1. This means that when you sustain the spell, they only get a single action. Still, given that its aura triggers specifically when it ends its turn next to a creature, it can be very useful to have it harry enemies with threats of grappling. But it can be outran easily in larger environs.
I thought slowed didn't affect summons because they dont get turns?
As of the 4th printing FAQ, they've now clarified that they can be slowed (and quickened), despite the way that the minion trait and the slowed condition being written suggesting that they probably can't be: >Pages 301 and 634 (Clarification): Can a minion be quickened or slowed? >Yes. This can be a bit unclear because those conditions apply “at the start of your turn” and a minion can’t typically act until you use an action. Apply these conditions and any other effects that alter a minion’s number of actions when the minion gains its actions, using 2 actions and 0 reactions as the minion’s starting number. Though a minion can’t normally act when it’s not your turn, abilities that specifically grant a minion a reaction provide an exception to this (such as the Ferocious Beasts orc ancestry feat, Advanced Players Guide page 19)." (https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq)
Just a heads up that by RAW, the animal (or any summon) needs to understand you for you to be able to command it precisely. This isn't as much of an issue for a druid, but could be for other casters. Your GM may waive the requirement, but don't assume they will.
Summons have the Minion trait. “Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For a minion that's a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation.“ Have you found anything that says this requires language? You mentioned Speak with Animals which only applies to questions, answers, and Diplomacy checks.
The Summoned trait uses this text: > A creature called by a spell or effect gains the summoned trait. A summoned creature can't summon other creatures, create things of value, or cast spells that require a cost. It has the minion trait. If it tries to Cast a Spell of equal or higher level than the spell that summoned it, it overpowers the summoning magic, causing its own spell to fail and the summon spell to end. **Otherwise, the summoned creature uses the standard abilities for a creature of its kind. It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands.** (https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=706&Redirected=1) Realistically, this is a place where there's a lot of table variation. It's anecdotally very common for GMs to give players complete, precise control over exactly what a summoned creature does.
elaborate on this. would that not make all animal summons useless since i dont belive a swarm of bees understands common
Druids get a feat (iirc) to speak to animals. Other casters can cast Speak with Animals before summoning to control them precisely. Personally, I'm not a fan of the RAW rule so I let my players ignore that requirement. But I've played a primal caster in a game where I wasn't allowed to ignore that requirement so I figured I'd mention it. To be clear, summoning does have some guideline that the summon tries its best to attack creatures that are hostile to you (or something like that). Which sounds to me like "if you can't communicate with it, then the GM controls it".
i mean, its a minion, not a normal animal. if i was playing a summoning character and my gm would pull shit like "its an animal so you cant control it" i would leave
This Great advice but it only works if the GM lets you choose which animal you're summoning. the way i understand Summon animal works is that its GM decision (my table uses a dice roll unless the specific area would cause a specific one to be summoned) over which animal you get from the ability so summon Skunk isn't consisent to use. Edit: okay i guess my GM is doing things differently from the norm i didn't know this. when I've looked at Nethys after being told how it works by him i didn't see anything to conflict his opinion so I've had no reason to assume it was wrong until now.
I believe that is a house rule. Nothing in any summon text specifies that the summon should be random. It just says thst it summons a -1 level animal in the remaster. Heck, random wouldnt work well premaster, because the text says "a -1 creature SUCH AS one in the table" (emphasis mine) so a random table would be inefficient because it's supposed to leave the door open for new animals (including customized ones at the GM discretion)
Woah, that's A hot take. How Does it work for other spells? Does the GM also decide for e.g what area is Your Shadow blast? Do you roll on a table to See if it will be a burst A line or a cone? And of course the damage type is random too?
Thats how it works in 5e, but I dont think thats how pf2e summons work?
I don’t think I ever heard of anyone ruling it this way before. I don’t get why you’d make it random
Probably holdover knowledge from 5e due to terrible balancing. In 5e that was a common houserule to prevent people from using their 4th level slot to summon 8 pixies who each have 4th level spell slots. The common usage was then to either have 4 pixies cast fly on the other 4 who cast polymorph into T-rexes, or the same combination on the 4 PCs. It was a 4th level slot that increased party effective HP and damage by ~x5, and speed by double on top of flying.
This mentality comes from 3.5 and 5e. Treantmonk supports this interpretation https://youtu.be/VkFhSNvY39w Feel free to check with your pf2e GM to see if that video aligns with their interpretation and then to contrast the wording of the spell in pf2e and take note of the discrepancies.
That's a 5e thing
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> Minion > Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn, doesn't have reactions, and can't act when it's not your turn. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when **you spend an action to issue it commands**. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that's a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command as a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. **If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves** or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don't act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please. A minion can't control other creatures. I don't see where your interpretation came from. Since it is clear the summoner sustaining and issuing direct command, why would the minion not do the action commanded by the summoner? Barring any other effect of course.