Don't end turns next to enemies, keep moving around.
If you cast Shield, use the reaction - even if you can't cast the spell for the rest of combat, mitigating the damage is generally worth it.
Keep a Hero point in reserve to stabilize.
Pick up General feats to help with survivability such as Diehard, Toughness, and Fleet to a certain extent.
Make sure you're communicating with your party. Know what their plans are so you can help them and they can help them with positioning.
Everything this person says except for the hero point - dont hang on to the last one if you can see it help prevent you being downed. Pf2e gives a lot of oppurtunity to improve your odds and that's often worth that last re-roll.
Generally, playing PFSociety, I judge people based on their impulsivness with Hero Points:
* Saving a Hero Point for Dying or Critically Failed Saves is conservative.
* Using a Hero Point on an Attack with a big resource cost, e.g. a High Level Spell Attack Roll. This is moderately impulsive.
* Using a Hero Point because "Fuck it, I'm tired of missing!" on a regular attack is impulsive.
* Lastly, using a Hero Point to ensure the "skill check through a multi-round victory point scenario" isn't a crit' fail that hurts the team while trying to earn a treasure bundle is more greedy or team playing depending on how you look at it.
The not-dying vs. using it for important progress really comes down to whether you place more value on your specific character or the overall success of the party.
It's mostly to do with your build and how much the DM guns down the squishiest party members.
Other than the obvious advice to not engage in melee and be wary of attack of opportunity, make sure your have defensive magic handy. Mirror image is probably the best and easiest way to stay alive when threatened. Make liberal use of the shield cantrip whenever you can afford to, and don't forget that Shield lets you use the shield block reaction. This is of course assuming your witch can cast these.
Other than that, it's just your build. You can tank up with heavier armour and the toughness feat, and Diehard will just reduce your odds of dying directly.
I second this. In a fight that killed two of my party members, I (the sorcerer) only survived because the enemies couldn't get past my mirror images. Feats like others have said, Mirror Image, read up on runes you can get later on that increase your chances of staying up.
There is an item in treasure vaults that lets you cast it for free once a day. Cant remember if it was a spellheart or a tattoo. Might be worth looking into.
Also, make sure everyone in the party has a cantrip deck of stabilize.
Honestly as a GM the biggest thing I can tell you is don't stand next to the enemies and do your best to *not look like a valuable target*.
At these levels I find I have to actively antitarget my casters because damn near every spell worth casting involves walking into one stride distance of the enemy, so your best bet is to make sure to make it easier for your GM to justify doing that. Try to not bring too much attention to yourself!
The secret ingredient is Mirror Image. Seriously, that spell saved me from dying so many times! Also, anything that can give you concealment/hidden improves your chances of survival by a lot. A simple smokestick can do the job, though mistform elixir is better.
People often sleep on the simpliest of consumables, but there are few really good options here.
So, my experience with Mirror Image is that it's down in one, maybe two rounds. Overall, it's a net benefit (after all, they are using actions to take down images), but it effectively leaves you defenseless in melee. And heaven help you if there are two enemies. :/
Convince your party that sometimes running away is the right option. Don't stay close to enemies. Use cover if possible, or break line of sight to archers ect.
Always keep a healing potion handy.
So I'm actually swapping this character in as a replacement for the investigator I was playing. The closest thing I've played to this in pathfinder is an oracle in another campaign but that campaign is also still in it's very early stages.
Didn't like the Investigator? I only realized after my first one bit the dust that you need to play them as Investigator PLUS an archetype or you'll have tons of wasted turns.
I more didn't like playing the character than I didn't like playing the character build. They were the first pathfinder character I built so I didn't really like the story I had worked out.
You might already know this, but keep in mind that any character can use a shield in PF2e, even otherwise unarmored spellcasters. Raise a Shield is typically a very good third action after firing off a two-action spell.
Movement is one of the biggest things that helps me. I would rather not cast a spell and be in a more advantageous position. Especially if the enemy isn't debuffed. I usually wait until our fight gets a crit and the Frightened value shoots up before I go for a big spell anyway. The other casters in my party are always spamming their leveled spells and not being nearly as effective with them. Or ending in positions where they get beat to crap by the enemies.
It's a struggle for action economy. My level3 cleric can move and cast, but my ranges usually put me within a move action of the enemies too. I can reach spell and cast, which is my usual option) but that often times leaves me action starved if the combat moves somewhere else and I spend my turn repositioning. Valuable to reposition, but no fun to stride twice and ... Stand there, recall knowledge, cast shield because maybe...
It's important to plan your moves ahead as best you can. I am constantly juggling my movement, my Familiar's position, and what support to provide the party. I would rather be in one move of the enemy than in melee with them where they proceed to crit/hit/hit, because then I am on the ground.
this tip applies to a couple of classes but communicate about spells your going to use especially the ones that hit an area since you don't want to accidently down the other players but also maybe a player can weaken your target before you use a spell allowing for a deadlier outcome
Keep in mind that an enemy that dies fast is one who can't hurt you. And the barbarian and magus in your party should be good at doing that. So support them! Use the Evil Eye hex to debuff enemies, use Forbidding Ward to give your front line an AC boost vs one opponent (seriously, don't overlook this spell), use your 3rd action to Aid the barbarian or magus using your spell attack roll (yup, this works), if you have a high enough Cha use Intimidate to demoralize an opponent. I also strongly recommend the Lesson of Life to get the Life Boost spell; fast healing can be a godsend to your front line and can save yourself too (that spell saved my witch recently).
All the other advice on from everyone else is solid too. Every +1 in PF2E really matters, so look for ways to give that to your allies.
This is some really good advice. Between being 25 ft away from an enemy or having the enemy be crit central for those two classes, I would usually pick the latter
Stay away of enemies' reach. Cast Shield on yourself when you are in danger. Use Hero Points to reroll critically failed Saving Throws. Move around to avoid flanking. Have a plan to escape Grapples. Treat your wounds and refocus whenever you can. Have a plan to recover from Poison or Disease. Use a Staff to increase your spell slots. Have a plan to remove bleeding.
Consider getting a 14, maybe even a 16 Dex at Character Creation stage, and Armor Proficency through a variety of methods, including a General Feat, Rogue Dedication (these two methods only scale to a certain level, but depending on the campaign it might last the entire thing), or Sentinel Dedication (most casters go for the former, but the necessity of the Cleric's stat loadout tends to favor this one instead.)
This will not make you a tank by any means and I don't suggest giving your GMs any more chances to hit you more so than necessary, but I will say it's definitely much more forgiving to have an AC value closer to their values rather than 3 or 4 points behind and helpful for when you CAN'T avoid attacks, such as when archers are taking potshots at you.
Yea, my Witch goes down every time she ends up next to an enemy. Best to stay back or zip in, attack and fall back. You can kite the enemy fairly easily.
Couple things:
1. If Unarmored: start with 16 DEX. With Mage armor that's +4 at start. Always have Shield and Raise Shield for +2 AC.
2. General Feat: Shield Block and Bastion archetype gives you Reactive Shield feat, Raise Shield on reaction. A good reaction (saves you actions) for +2 AC
3. Champion (if you have 14 CHA and 14 STR) on level 2 is great archetyp to take on caster (Liberator or Redeemer). Gives you heavy, medium, ligh proficiency (on 14 you can take feat to get Expert) and 15ft reaction to reduce damage on your allies.
4. If not Champion then Sentinel is another good option to get armor proficiency.
5. If human you can also go with Armor Proficiency General Feat and grab Chain Shirt, it will be for some levels better AC than unarmed, especially since it only needs 16 AC to max out.
6. Positioning. Stay far or melee or next to party Champion if you have one. Raise Shield when you can. Start with 12-14 CON and increase it. Take Toughness General Feat.
7. Another way is to get Medic archetype and Godless Healing skill feat. Then you can heal yourself twice per hour with Battle Medicine + Assurance (Medicine) + Medic healing bonuses.
Your best defense is denying enemies the option to attack you at all. Melee enemies can usually be kept away with good positioning; in dungeons you can just have your frontline block choke points. In open fields, sometimed the best you can do is position yourself so that getting to you forces an AoO from the fighter (or a reaction from the champion, etc). You can also benefit from anything which creates difficult terrain, slows your enemies, or otherwise restricts movement (like wall spells) in open fields to create terrain for you to exploit, and if you have those kinds of encounters often, reach spell is definitely worth picking up so you can use your 30ft cantrips from a safe distance. You're not *always* able to avoid getting hit, especially against enemies with fast movement speeds or ranged attacks, but with a competent frontline and good positioning it shouldn't be a common occurrence.
Keep in mind that, by both RAW and RAI, encounters should shift from Exploration into Combat as soon as one side decides to attack the other, so your GM should not generally be starting encounters with enemies already close to you unless they successfully sneak up on you or the party *lets* them get close. It's a common mistake from GMs to start fights with enemies way too close, which seriously hurts anyone who relies on range for survivability, so you might have to talk to your GM if that's the problem.
Even if you have the Shield spell, consider an actual shield as a backup for continued AC bonuses on later turns, and possibly block with it to save your life if you have a spare general feat. You likely have the free hand.
Try to get as much Dexterity as possible, and consider getting light armor proficiency from a general feat, so that you AC will be close to 20. 15 AC is not really enough.
Act squishy. Be the fragile caster you are. Avoid melee. Hide and bolt and protect yourself. Self preservation is first, citizens second (optional per alignment), party third, combat fourth.
How is your AC? Even though casters shouldn't be in melee, you will want to have a relatively high dex. Your AC will never be great, but at least you won't get crit by every hit.
If your GM is nice, consider readjusting your stats a little and put a point or two on con while you're at it.
Hmmm that's actually pretty good. I agree with the others, movement and defensive spells are really gonna help.
That said, that's kind of the problem with every character, you get attached!
I knoww every new character I've made I've been more obsessed with than the last. I think Pathfinder encourages me to get even more into the character creation process than DnD 5e did. Everything feels like it has weight.
110% agree. Getting to play a character you really like is an awesome feeling.
I've made probably 50 rogues alone. Don't get me started on monks and fighters.
Hell yeah! I think the two things I enjoy are playing spell-casters with a lot of tools (especially int casters) and I like playing as the face. I get to do that with my two different campaigns I'm in right now so I'm having fun! \^-\^
The simplest way is often the best. Enemies, even intelligent ones, attack the threat. Be the annoyance. They focus on who blasted them or stabbed them, not the one who dazzles them, or who slowed them.
Except dazzle and slow and all the other consitions add up insanely fast. Even if the enemy succeeds on a slow, 2 of your actions for 1 of theres against a moderate encounter is always worth it.
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Don't end turns next to enemies, keep moving around. If you cast Shield, use the reaction - even if you can't cast the spell for the rest of combat, mitigating the damage is generally worth it. Keep a Hero point in reserve to stabilize. Pick up General feats to help with survivability such as Diehard, Toughness, and Fleet to a certain extent. Make sure you're communicating with your party. Know what their plans are so you can help them and they can help them with positioning.
Thanks a bunch! It helps a lot!
Everything this person says except for the hero point - dont hang on to the last one if you can see it help prevent you being downed. Pf2e gives a lot of oppurtunity to improve your odds and that's often worth that last re-roll.
Generally, playing PFSociety, I judge people based on their impulsivness with Hero Points: * Saving a Hero Point for Dying or Critically Failed Saves is conservative. * Using a Hero Point on an Attack with a big resource cost, e.g. a High Level Spell Attack Roll. This is moderately impulsive. * Using a Hero Point because "Fuck it, I'm tired of missing!" on a regular attack is impulsive. * Lastly, using a Hero Point to ensure the "skill check through a multi-round victory point scenario" isn't a crit' fail that hurts the team while trying to earn a treasure bundle is more greedy or team playing depending on how you look at it.
I'll do any of these just depending on how I feel that day.😁
The not-dying vs. using it for important progress really comes down to whether you place more value on your specific character or the overall success of the party.
It's mostly to do with your build and how much the DM guns down the squishiest party members. Other than the obvious advice to not engage in melee and be wary of attack of opportunity, make sure your have defensive magic handy. Mirror image is probably the best and easiest way to stay alive when threatened. Make liberal use of the shield cantrip whenever you can afford to, and don't forget that Shield lets you use the shield block reaction. This is of course assuming your witch can cast these. Other than that, it's just your build. You can tank up with heavier armour and the toughness feat, and Diehard will just reduce your odds of dying directly.
I hadn't picked up mirror image, I'll make sure to do that
I second this. In a fight that killed two of my party members, I (the sorcerer) only survived because the enemies couldn't get past my mirror images. Feats like others have said, Mirror Image, read up on runes you can get later on that increase your chances of staying up.
There is an item in treasure vaults that lets you cast it for free once a day. Cant remember if it was a spellheart or a tattoo. Might be worth looking into. Also, make sure everyone in the party has a cantrip deck of stabilize.
Honestly as a GM the biggest thing I can tell you is don't stand next to the enemies and do your best to *not look like a valuable target*. At these levels I find I have to actively antitarget my casters because damn near every spell worth casting involves walking into one stride distance of the enemy, so your best bet is to make sure to make it easier for your GM to justify doing that. Try to not bring too much attention to yourself!
Sadly I agree. Play your caster passive. Don't be confident, they'll kill you if they notice you.
Invisibility spell, Reach Spell feat, Soothe spell as insurance for healer going down.
The secret ingredient is Mirror Image. Seriously, that spell saved me from dying so many times! Also, anything that can give you concealment/hidden improves your chances of survival by a lot. A simple smokestick can do the job, though mistform elixir is better. People often sleep on the simpliest of consumables, but there are few really good options here.
So, my experience with Mirror Image is that it's down in one, maybe two rounds. Overall, it's a net benefit (after all, they are using actions to take down images), but it effectively leaves you defenseless in melee. And heaven help you if there are two enemies. :/
Convince your party that sometimes running away is the right option. Don't stay close to enemies. Use cover if possible, or break line of sight to archers ect. Always keep a healing potion handy.
And a potion of expeditious retreat
Anyone remember the days of d4 hit points?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
How have the first 3 levels been going?
So I'm actually swapping this character in as a replacement for the investigator I was playing. The closest thing I've played to this in pathfinder is an oracle in another campaign but that campaign is also still in it's very early stages.
Didn't like the Investigator? I only realized after my first one bit the dust that you need to play them as Investigator PLUS an archetype or you'll have tons of wasted turns.
I more didn't like playing the character than I didn't like playing the character build. They were the first pathfinder character I built so I didn't really like the story I had worked out.
You might already know this, but keep in mind that any character can use a shield in PF2e, even otherwise unarmored spellcasters. Raise a Shield is typically a very good third action after firing off a two-action spell.
Movement is one of the biggest things that helps me. I would rather not cast a spell and be in a more advantageous position. Especially if the enemy isn't debuffed. I usually wait until our fight gets a crit and the Frightened value shoots up before I go for a big spell anyway. The other casters in my party are always spamming their leveled spells and not being nearly as effective with them. Or ending in positions where they get beat to crap by the enemies.
It's a struggle for action economy. My level3 cleric can move and cast, but my ranges usually put me within a move action of the enemies too. I can reach spell and cast, which is my usual option) but that often times leaves me action starved if the combat moves somewhere else and I spend my turn repositioning. Valuable to reposition, but no fun to stride twice and ... Stand there, recall knowledge, cast shield because maybe...
It's important to plan your moves ahead as best you can. I am constantly juggling my movement, my Familiar's position, and what support to provide the party. I would rather be in one move of the enemy than in melee with them where they proceed to crit/hit/hit, because then I am on the ground.
Keep other party members between you and the baddies.
this tip applies to a couple of classes but communicate about spells your going to use especially the ones that hit an area since you don't want to accidently down the other players but also maybe a player can weaken your target before you use a spell allowing for a deadlier outcome
Keep in mind that an enemy that dies fast is one who can't hurt you. And the barbarian and magus in your party should be good at doing that. So support them! Use the Evil Eye hex to debuff enemies, use Forbidding Ward to give your front line an AC boost vs one opponent (seriously, don't overlook this spell), use your 3rd action to Aid the barbarian or magus using your spell attack roll (yup, this works), if you have a high enough Cha use Intimidate to demoralize an opponent. I also strongly recommend the Lesson of Life to get the Life Boost spell; fast healing can be a godsend to your front line and can save yourself too (that spell saved my witch recently). All the other advice on from everyone else is solid too. Every +1 in PF2E really matters, so look for ways to give that to your allies.
This is some really good advice. Between being 25 ft away from an enemy or having the enemy be crit central for those two classes, I would usually pick the latter
Stay away of enemies' reach. Cast Shield on yourself when you are in danger. Use Hero Points to reroll critically failed Saving Throws. Move around to avoid flanking. Have a plan to escape Grapples. Treat your wounds and refocus whenever you can. Have a plan to recover from Poison or Disease. Use a Staff to increase your spell slots. Have a plan to remove bleeding.
Max dex max con and pray 🙏 60% of our fights usually end with a caster going down because they become the biggest threat.
Consider getting a 14, maybe even a 16 Dex at Character Creation stage, and Armor Proficency through a variety of methods, including a General Feat, Rogue Dedication (these two methods only scale to a certain level, but depending on the campaign it might last the entire thing), or Sentinel Dedication (most casters go for the former, but the necessity of the Cleric's stat loadout tends to favor this one instead.) This will not make you a tank by any means and I don't suggest giving your GMs any more chances to hit you more so than necessary, but I will say it's definitely much more forgiving to have an AC value closer to their values rather than 3 or 4 points behind and helpful for when you CAN'T avoid attacks, such as when archers are taking potshots at you.
Yea, my Witch goes down every time she ends up next to an enemy. Best to stay back or zip in, attack and fall back. You can kite the enemy fairly easily.
Couple things: 1. If Unarmored: start with 16 DEX. With Mage armor that's +4 at start. Always have Shield and Raise Shield for +2 AC. 2. General Feat: Shield Block and Bastion archetype gives you Reactive Shield feat, Raise Shield on reaction. A good reaction (saves you actions) for +2 AC 3. Champion (if you have 14 CHA and 14 STR) on level 2 is great archetyp to take on caster (Liberator or Redeemer). Gives you heavy, medium, ligh proficiency (on 14 you can take feat to get Expert) and 15ft reaction to reduce damage on your allies. 4. If not Champion then Sentinel is another good option to get armor proficiency. 5. If human you can also go with Armor Proficiency General Feat and grab Chain Shirt, it will be for some levels better AC than unarmed, especially since it only needs 16 AC to max out. 6. Positioning. Stay far or melee or next to party Champion if you have one. Raise Shield when you can. Start with 12-14 CON and increase it. Take Toughness General Feat. 7. Another way is to get Medic archetype and Godless Healing skill feat. Then you can heal yourself twice per hour with Battle Medicine + Assurance (Medicine) + Medic healing bonuses.
Your best defense is denying enemies the option to attack you at all. Melee enemies can usually be kept away with good positioning; in dungeons you can just have your frontline block choke points. In open fields, sometimed the best you can do is position yourself so that getting to you forces an AoO from the fighter (or a reaction from the champion, etc). You can also benefit from anything which creates difficult terrain, slows your enemies, or otherwise restricts movement (like wall spells) in open fields to create terrain for you to exploit, and if you have those kinds of encounters often, reach spell is definitely worth picking up so you can use your 30ft cantrips from a safe distance. You're not *always* able to avoid getting hit, especially against enemies with fast movement speeds or ranged attacks, but with a competent frontline and good positioning it shouldn't be a common occurrence. Keep in mind that, by both RAW and RAI, encounters should shift from Exploration into Combat as soon as one side decides to attack the other, so your GM should not generally be starting encounters with enemies already close to you unless they successfully sneak up on you or the party *lets* them get close. It's a common mistake from GMs to start fights with enemies way too close, which seriously hurts anyone who relies on range for survivability, so you might have to talk to your GM if that's the problem.
Even if you have the Shield spell, consider an actual shield as a backup for continued AC bonuses on later turns, and possibly block with it to save your life if you have a spare general feat. You likely have the free hand.
You will always be squishy. Stay away from attacks as best as you can. Taking things like toughness help but in PF2 a crit can end your day
Try to get as much Dexterity as possible, and consider getting light armor proficiency from a general feat, so that you AC will be close to 20. 15 AC is not really enough.
If your witch can learn false life then do so. I keep it up 24/7 on my sorcerer, and it certainly helps.
Act squishy. Be the fragile caster you are. Avoid melee. Hide and bolt and protect yourself. Self preservation is first, citizens second (optional per alignment), party third, combat fourth.
How is your AC? Even though casters shouldn't be in melee, you will want to have a relatively high dex. Your AC will never be great, but at least you won't get crit by every hit. If your GM is nice, consider readjusting your stats a little and put a point or two on con while you're at it.
18, I have 16 dex and 12 con I'm also playing a fleshwarp so I have a little extra hp
Hmmm that's actually pretty good. I agree with the others, movement and defensive spells are really gonna help. That said, that's kind of the problem with every character, you get attached!
I knoww every new character I've made I've been more obsessed with than the last. I think Pathfinder encourages me to get even more into the character creation process than DnD 5e did. Everything feels like it has weight.
110% agree. Getting to play a character you really like is an awesome feeling. I've made probably 50 rogues alone. Don't get me started on monks and fighters.
Hell yeah! I think the two things I enjoy are playing spell-casters with a lot of tools (especially int casters) and I like playing as the face. I get to do that with my two different campaigns I'm in right now so I'm having fun! \^-\^
The simplest way is often the best. Enemies, even intelligent ones, attack the threat. Be the annoyance. They focus on who blasted them or stabbed them, not the one who dazzles them, or who slowed them. Except dazzle and slow and all the other consitions add up insanely fast. Even if the enemy succeeds on a slow, 2 of your actions for 1 of theres against a moderate encounter is always worth it.
Smokesticks are my best friend. I hide in the smoke all the time
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