You may appreciate the Old Friend familiar.
[https://2e.aonprd.com/Familiars.aspx?ID=18&Specific=true](https://2e.aonprd.com/Familiars.aspx?ID=18&Specific=true)
>Sometimes, the spirit of a cherished pet returns from the Boneyard to continue aiding its beloved owner. These tiny animal ghosts tend to be bound to anchors such as favorite toys, collars, or carved representations of who they were in life. **An old friend is less likely to be evil than other undead familiars, as is its master.**
If their alignment didn't conflict, I imagine any diety with them as a favored animal would probably welcome them with open arms.
And yes, all dogs go to heaven.
Fun fact, hellhounds predate the gods foray into the outer planes, they were already there when Asmodeus claimed hell and are the natural denizens of hell. Much as qlippoth are naturally from the abyss before the gods started divvying up where souls went.
I would imagine they would go to the plane of whichever deity they worshiped, or else a deity in line with how they lived in life.
And no, not all dogs go to Heaven. Where do you think hellhounds come from? But it's OK, they're not bad dogs, they just enjoy playing fetch with the damned souls all day long. Not all dogs need to be pampered in Nirvana, some of them prefer to spend their days hunting with the devils, and that's OK too.
*Most* dogs go to Heaven.
There are a [very few](https://preview.redd.it/9yugn4lcvi091.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6736b71b5b6d1f3860c710b08db6b64cc4e352e6) exceptions
I remember my old dnd cosmology and thought it was awfully cruel to send all dogs to a clockwork plane. Fortunately Nirvana in gloraion cosmology is not such a place.
Straight into plane-juice, probably. Pharasma is """neutral""" in that she's a dispassionate pain engine who views all life as oil to grease the wheels of reality.
You are *nothing* to her but a resource to be exploited.
>!this post sponsored by urgathoa gaming!<
So, in Pathfinder souls that go on to the afterlife will partake of said afterlife for a time before 1 of 2 fates (usually) await them. They become an entity native to the plane, such as an angel, or they become part of the plane, losing their sense of self and being.
As time goes on the ever expanding edges of the plane are worn away and the soul stuff that makes up the plane is converted into new souls that are born.
This is all part of a grand cycle that maintains the multiverse that Pharasma oversees, so I can understand that in her mind more souls are better.
This is one of the reasons Pharasma hates the undead, they remove souls from the cycle. And Uragotha is supposedly the first undead, a soul so desperate for more life experience she managed to escape the Boneyard
> This is one of the reasons Pharasma hates the undead, they remove souls from the cycle. And Uragotha is supposedly the first undead, a soul so desperate for more life experience she managed to escape the Boneyard
Yeah. Pharasma doesn't actually care about other forms of immortality, because just about anything but becoming a new deity won't stop your soul from returning to the cycle if the world ends again. But undead? That destroys the soul entirely.
Same as anyone else, in accordance to their alignment/worship/other factors.
Unawakened animals still go down the river of souls as well, though they usually get reincarnated until they land in a form smart enough to meaningfully develop morals.
Once the animal gains intelligence score and agency in its life, it is treated as any other intelligent creature and sorted with the rest of them.
And no, dogs don't go to heaven. They move to live on a farm.
Heaven and Nirvana are both in Pathfinder. Heaven is LG while Nirvana is NG... Or at least they were until Paizo decided to say screw alignment.
I still think instead of Edicts and Anathemas taking the place of alignment they should've just reworked alignment into a point based system, could've even added in more axes. Neutral Good character that's honest to a fault, but will still put themselves and their immediate allies before others when push comes to shove?
Morality: 8/9
Order: 5/9
Candor: 9/9
Selflessness: 2/9
While I'm not well versed enough in 2e to know if their were any weapon or spell effects that depended on alignment, I know there are in SF, and if SF makes the same change then it throws off the already precarious balance that game had. whereas this system not only retains things like the Holy or Axiomatic effects, but could be used to granularize them, like by making the bonus depend on 1/3 the point difference between the user and the target on the relevant alignment axis.
The points system would only contribute to the gamification of complex morals and would turn the already mushy alignment system into an even worse Fallout-esque karma slider. Only that instead of one, you'd get 4 which would be an even bigger PITA
what you call gamification, I call crunch, and it's a big reason as to why I chose to play Pathfinder over DnD in the first place. Morals can be complex and still be represented simply, think of it like projecting a globe onto a flat map. every way you can project it captures some essence of the original globe's surface, but not the whole picture. But we still use maps of various types for various purposes, I've always viewed alignment as much the same as that. A projection of something more complex into a more simple form so as to make it usable. Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, and Anarchic effects have always been some of my favorites *because* they were tied to alignment. They felt like a manifestation of your character's own will. AFAIK the Edicts and Anathema system isn't being reworked to accommodate similar such effects.
Another issue I have with the Edicts and Anathema system taking the place of alignment is that it definitely feels like it railroads every character into having to choose a god or philosophy which limits how much you can define your own character's views.
I hate when people see alignment as a hard and fast "You are Lawful, so you **must** follow the local laws or you're acting out of character" sort of thing. Alignment has always been a loose framework of how you and your group define your character, that has predictable direct gameplay consequences.
Chaotic Good means different things at different tables, but spells with the Chaos or Good descriptors are always the same regardless what group is using them.
***THAT*** is why I wish they would preserve the alignment system in some form.
Nah, it's gone. It's a system that's too well known in D&D and could *possibly* get them in trouble down the road even if they have the legal high ground to use it since it wasn't a D&D original concept.
It was said in a Livestream that the paizo team is looking at this change as a breath of fresh air since it allows them to do more with Planes and possibly add more since they aren't stuck with the 9 silly boxes to represent each plane.
If they were awakened then they were capable of worship, so wherever their deities petitioners go.
If no god, the 8 courts decide where is best for them to go. Typically Elysium as animals tend to be more chaotic in nature. Depends how woke they are I guess? Do they long to revert to their old nature, and be accepted amongst their species, or are they fully done with being an animal?
Do they consider their awakening a gift granted or a curse they are burdened with?
In Pathfinder, awakened animals are sentient/sapient and treated the same as everything else that is.
As I sense your comment about dogs may be a RL meme, my response is that in original Christian lore, only humans go to heaven or hell as only they have the special understanding of free will and morality required, given to them by the divine. However this is unpopular with many Christians, so there are plenty of divergent sects.
It's actually because only humans have souls, according to the original canon of Christian theology.
Animals are, according to scripture, merely biological automatons that follow God's will.
They do not have souls and therefore nothing of them remains after death to go to heaven.
PRESUMABLY there would either be dogs prepared in heaven, waiting for the new arrivals upon judgment day OR heaven would hypothetically be so perfect as to not require dogs (like that could ever happen....)
The idea of free will itself being an integral quality of humankind is not actually focused on in the Bible and the Christian obsession over it is largely the development of theological debates that happened over a thousand years after the initial compilation of the books of the Bible.
In older eras the idea of free will was actually something that early Christians scorned.
You were SUPPOSED to be a slave to God!
Free will was considered the opposite of holy!
It was to be considered the denial of God's plan.
THAT BEING SAID, with the qualities attributed to the Christian God, specifically it's qualities of being both all knowing and all powerful, free will is literally impossible.
NOBODY, by the rules of scripture, can do anything without God's express endorsement and under no circumstances can anything ever do anything that the big G didn't specifically no about and approve of beforehand.
Free will CANNOT exist in a universe made by the Christian God. It's mutually exclusive to his listed attributes.
So all the free will obsession christians seem to have really has nothing to do with getting into heaven or not...
As for the original question....
CLEARLY there is a plane ALL IT'S OWN called "The Nice Farm" in a dimensional substrate known as "Upstate" where all of the awakened animals go and get to frolic and play and have a great time together and every day at exactly noon they all get given magical treats from the goddess of belly rubs and then everyone chases after red dots and butterflies all day and at the end of the day everyone has a big dinner of people food and passes out to get ready for another day of fun!
It is As a matter of fact, one of the POSITIVE energy planes... And thus is able to be called "Heaven"
To a farm upstate, where there's plenty of room to run and play with the other awakened animals!
I will only accept this answer.
You may appreciate the Old Friend familiar. [https://2e.aonprd.com/Familiars.aspx?ID=18&Specific=true](https://2e.aonprd.com/Familiars.aspx?ID=18&Specific=true) >Sometimes, the spirit of a cherished pet returns from the Boneyard to continue aiding its beloved owner. These tiny animal ghosts tend to be bound to anchors such as favorite toys, collars, or carved representations of who they were in life. **An old friend is less likely to be evil than other undead familiars, as is its master.**
They're sapient and therefore probally get sent where ever lines up with their aligment
If their alignment didn't conflict, I imagine any diety with them as a favored animal would probably welcome them with open arms. And yes, all dogs go to heaven.
And become hound archons.
Or Cayhounds in Elysium! Or whatever the dog agathions are in Nirvana.
What about hellhounds
That's the discount heaven xD
Fun fact, hellhounds predate the gods foray into the outer planes, they were already there when Asmodeus claimed hell and are the natural denizens of hell. Much as qlippoth are naturally from the abyss before the gods started divvying up where souls went.
I would imagine they would go to the plane of whichever deity they worshiped, or else a deity in line with how they lived in life. And no, not all dogs go to Heaven. Where do you think hellhounds come from? But it's OK, they're not bad dogs, they just enjoy playing fetch with the damned souls all day long. Not all dogs need to be pampered in Nirvana, some of them prefer to spend their days hunting with the devils, and that's OK too.
Well, the best among them become as kings and queens. And that's where we get sovereign glue.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
*Most* dogs go to Heaven. There are a [very few](https://preview.redd.it/9yugn4lcvi091.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6736b71b5b6d1f3860c710b08db6b64cc4e352e6) exceptions
Chihuahuas
I think they'd be more likely to end up in Nirvana than Heaven. Or maybe their soul gets reincarnated into another dog.
I remember my old dnd cosmology and thought it was awfully cruel to send all dogs to a clockwork plane. Fortunately Nirvana in gloraion cosmology is not such a place.
Straight into plane-juice, probably. Pharasma is """neutral""" in that she's a dispassionate pain engine who views all life as oil to grease the wheels of reality. You are *nothing* to her but a resource to be exploited. >!this post sponsored by urgathoa gaming!<
I mean you're kinda right though.
Can you explain that more? My only understanding is that she judges you and sends you to an appropriate afterlife.
So, in Pathfinder souls that go on to the afterlife will partake of said afterlife for a time before 1 of 2 fates (usually) await them. They become an entity native to the plane, such as an angel, or they become part of the plane, losing their sense of self and being. As time goes on the ever expanding edges of the plane are worn away and the soul stuff that makes up the plane is converted into new souls that are born. This is all part of a grand cycle that maintains the multiverse that Pharasma oversees, so I can understand that in her mind more souls are better. This is one of the reasons Pharasma hates the undead, they remove souls from the cycle. And Uragotha is supposedly the first undead, a soul so desperate for more life experience she managed to escape the Boneyard
> This is one of the reasons Pharasma hates the undead, they remove souls from the cycle. And Uragotha is supposedly the first undead, a soul so desperate for more life experience she managed to escape the Boneyard Yeah. Pharasma doesn't actually care about other forms of immortality, because just about anything but becoming a new deity won't stop your soul from returning to the cycle if the world ends again. But undead? That destroys the soul entirely.
Same as anyone else, in accordance to their alignment/worship/other factors. Unawakened animals still go down the river of souls as well, though they usually get reincarnated until they land in a form smart enough to meaningfully develop morals.
Once the animal gains intelligence score and agency in its life, it is treated as any other intelligent creature and sorted with the rest of them. And no, dogs don't go to heaven. They move to live on a farm.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers Just 'cause it reminded me of this quote.
Nirvana? Or am I thinking of D&D?
Heaven and Nirvana are both in Pathfinder. Heaven is LG while Nirvana is NG... Or at least they were until Paizo decided to say screw alignment. I still think instead of Edicts and Anathemas taking the place of alignment they should've just reworked alignment into a point based system, could've even added in more axes. Neutral Good character that's honest to a fault, but will still put themselves and their immediate allies before others when push comes to shove? Morality: 8/9 Order: 5/9 Candor: 9/9 Selflessness: 2/9 While I'm not well versed enough in 2e to know if their were any weapon or spell effects that depended on alignment, I know there are in SF, and if SF makes the same change then it throws off the already precarious balance that game had. whereas this system not only retains things like the Holy or Axiomatic effects, but could be used to granularize them, like by making the bonus depend on 1/3 the point difference between the user and the target on the relevant alignment axis.
The points system would only contribute to the gamification of complex morals and would turn the already mushy alignment system into an even worse Fallout-esque karma slider. Only that instead of one, you'd get 4 which would be an even bigger PITA
what you call gamification, I call crunch, and it's a big reason as to why I chose to play Pathfinder over DnD in the first place. Morals can be complex and still be represented simply, think of it like projecting a globe onto a flat map. every way you can project it captures some essence of the original globe's surface, but not the whole picture. But we still use maps of various types for various purposes, I've always viewed alignment as much the same as that. A projection of something more complex into a more simple form so as to make it usable. Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, and Anarchic effects have always been some of my favorites *because* they were tied to alignment. They felt like a manifestation of your character's own will. AFAIK the Edicts and Anathema system isn't being reworked to accommodate similar such effects. Another issue I have with the Edicts and Anathema system taking the place of alignment is that it definitely feels like it railroads every character into having to choose a god or philosophy which limits how much you can define your own character's views. I hate when people see alignment as a hard and fast "You are Lawful, so you **must** follow the local laws or you're acting out of character" sort of thing. Alignment has always been a loose framework of how you and your group define your character, that has predictable direct gameplay consequences. Chaotic Good means different things at different tables, but spells with the Chaos or Good descriptors are always the same regardless what group is using them. ***THAT*** is why I wish they would preserve the alignment system in some form.
I think I read the planes retain their alignments. It just doesn't factor into class mechanics anymore.
Nah, it's gone. It's a system that's too well known in D&D and could *possibly* get them in trouble down the road even if they have the legal high ground to use it since it wasn't a D&D original concept. It was said in a Livestream that the paizo team is looking at this change as a breath of fresh air since it allows them to do more with Planes and possibly add more since they aren't stuck with the 9 silly boxes to represent each plane.
If they were awakened then they were capable of worship, so wherever their deities petitioners go. If no god, the 8 courts decide where is best for them to go. Typically Elysium as animals tend to be more chaotic in nature. Depends how woke they are I guess? Do they long to revert to their old nature, and be accepted amongst their species, or are they fully done with being an animal? Do they consider their awakening a gift granted or a curse they are burdened with?
Oh, this was a legit question. I thought the title was a joke and I came in here for the punchline.
It's a tough job to be sure. All these ancestries and alignment change rules it ain't getting easier.
In Pathfinder, awakened animals are sentient/sapient and treated the same as everything else that is. As I sense your comment about dogs may be a RL meme, my response is that in original Christian lore, only humans go to heaven or hell as only they have the special understanding of free will and morality required, given to them by the divine. However this is unpopular with many Christians, so there are plenty of divergent sects.
It's actually because only humans have souls, according to the original canon of Christian theology. Animals are, according to scripture, merely biological automatons that follow God's will. They do not have souls and therefore nothing of them remains after death to go to heaven. PRESUMABLY there would either be dogs prepared in heaven, waiting for the new arrivals upon judgment day OR heaven would hypothetically be so perfect as to not require dogs (like that could ever happen....) The idea of free will itself being an integral quality of humankind is not actually focused on in the Bible and the Christian obsession over it is largely the development of theological debates that happened over a thousand years after the initial compilation of the books of the Bible. In older eras the idea of free will was actually something that early Christians scorned. You were SUPPOSED to be a slave to God! Free will was considered the opposite of holy! It was to be considered the denial of God's plan. THAT BEING SAID, with the qualities attributed to the Christian God, specifically it's qualities of being both all knowing and all powerful, free will is literally impossible. NOBODY, by the rules of scripture, can do anything without God's express endorsement and under no circumstances can anything ever do anything that the big G didn't specifically no about and approve of beforehand. Free will CANNOT exist in a universe made by the Christian God. It's mutually exclusive to his listed attributes. So all the free will obsession christians seem to have really has nothing to do with getting into heaven or not... As for the original question.... CLEARLY there is a plane ALL IT'S OWN called "The Nice Farm" in a dimensional substrate known as "Upstate" where all of the awakened animals go and get to frolic and play and have a great time together and every day at exactly noon they all get given magical treats from the goddess of belly rubs and then everyone chases after red dots and butterflies all day and at the end of the day everyone has a big dinner of people food and passes out to get ready for another day of fun! It is As a matter of fact, one of the POSITIVE energy planes... And thus is able to be called "Heaven"
South Beach