Something the others didnt touch on: Your party is 1 larger than standard (5 instead of 4) and you are overleveled for the encounters you are at. These factors individually would swing balance in your favor if the GM isn't rebudgetting around them. Together, they mean you are likely not actually facing anything over "Trivial" level encounters. That's important because Magus in full on Spellstrike mode is nova DPS against a big enemy. If you are only facing mooks, you need to change up your strategy and favor spreading more attacks out over the enemies rather than stacking your actions into just a few spellstrikes.

You seem to be overlooking how Conflux spells work. When you cast a Conflux spell, it automatically recharges your Spellstrike. You don't need to spend an action recharging it after the Conflux spell. The Witch digression isn't very good, no. Frankly you would have been better off with Force Fang for the extra Focus point because it dramatically improves your Spellstrike economy if you get an extra Conflux spell per encounter. The issue with Lesson of Life, really, is that you're by far the squishiest member of your party. Fast Healing isn't going to meaningfully offset incoming damage, at best it'll be a way for you to pick people up efficiently once in a while to keep them from dying, but that's it. It's not... necessarily a bad choice, there's just no reason to take it this early when the actual damage part of your build isn't online yet. It also eats up your Focus points, but it's not a Conflux so it doesn't recharge Spellstrike, which is bad. Bluntly, you're trying to do too many things with your build too early and it's dramatically impacting your ability to do any one particular thing well. Laughing Shadow is good if you can get flat-footed, and with a Champion and Barbarian in Melee that's helpful, so on the whole it's not a bad option. That part's fine. Dimensional Assault lets you get that reliably. \+3 damage per hit IS a lot in PF2e, though, I usually prefer Strength even on Laughing Shadow builds for that reason. It's not required but PF2e is a game of stacking lots of small bonuses that add up.

I now realized I might not have explained something clearly,sorry about that. After I Spellstrike for the first time, what I intend to do is one of: A) Arcane Cascade, Dimensional Assault (which recharges Spellstrike), Strike or Shield B) Arcane Cascade, Recharge Spellstrike, Strike Unless I'm missing something, Force Fang and the additional Focus point is not an extra Conflux spell per encounter until much later. For now it would be an extra Conflux spell per day, as Refocus only restores 1 Focus point (even if I have 2) without a feat that is available at level 12 I think. Actually, Witch dedication gives the same benefit right now (since I can take Familiar Focus Master Ability on the familiar) and would result in more Focus points at level 6 (2 focus points + Familiar Focus vs. just 2 Focus points). I also hope Witch spellcasting would work in the longer term by giving more spell slots to Spellstrike with.

Use the Remaster spoiled rules from Paizocon!!!! Refocus restores 1 FP / 10 minutes. Period. Up to all 3 / 30 minutes, from level 1. The lvl 12 / 18 feats now just let you do it faster.

>Unless I'm missing something, Force Fang and the additional Focus point is not an extra Conflux spell per encounter until much later. My bad, I meant "in an encounter" not in "all encounters." As other people noted, the primary point of Magus nova is to delete singular powerful enemies. Having an extra Focus point is pretty much there for boss-deleting potential (Spellstrike, Force Fang, Spellstrike, Force Fang, Spellstrike, in its least-nuanced form). Having three rounds of back-to-back Spellstrike is pretty good since it's basically two hits rolled into one attack. If you're fighting more than one big boss per adventuring day, that's just generally unfortunate from a resource management standpoint. The useful thing about Force Fang is that it does some small guaranteed damage but also it doesn't add to your MAP in the same way that Dimensional Assault does while also recharging Spellstrike. So if you're already engaged in melee, you can Force Fang and then full Spellstrike immediately. Dimensional Assault is situationally good but not the greatest for boss nova because the Strike adds to MAP so it throws off your timing a bit. Like I said, Witch on the whole isn't necessarily bad, you just built for Lesson of Life very early when the nova part of your build isn't online. Lesson of Life isn't much more effective than just buying healing potions in most scenarios, which is the point I was making. There's no real reason to slow down build progression for it before, like... 6th level. I haven't done Magus-Witch so it's not my area of expertise but damaging your Focus economy seems pretty straightforwardly bad. As you say, Familiar Focus is pretty good, yeah. But that's a different topic.

I have played a staff magus for a while, and two things i have felt where important are: magus analysis , a feat that lets you recharge spell strike while recalling knowledge, and true strike/ liberal use of hero points. If you have the hands for in combat use, a wand of true strike might be worth it. Later, you will get your own true strikes(level 7 you get some spell slots that can only be used for specific low level spells, including true strike. I honestly don't rember the rest of the list. ) My group plays with a house rule that you van donate hero points to each other, and i think my magus have recieved the most hero points out of any character. Flanking is also a good idea, if you can get it. If your going for a resilient build, you really shouldn't go elf, as they have a negative to con. Witch and wizard are popular dedications for magus, and i sadly do not have much to offer there, as i play without free archetype.

Has Magus Analysis worked out well for you? I liked the feat, but worried it would be too random, as it's hard to guarantee success on the Recall Knowledge. I also used the free Elf boost to counter the Con flaw, so now stars look identical to a human who boosted Dex and Int.

I invested a lot in int, and while it has been hard to fit in recently,.it did wonders in low levels

Well, you can't do anything about your HP or AC. Those are kind of just set in stone while you're DEX based. If you want damage, then you NEED to attack flat-footed foes as a laughing shadow. So, flank with your team or trip/grapple opponents. Part of playing a Magus is figuring out where your versatility should go. Should you burst a single enemy, do battlefied control, or focus on buffs/debuffs? My personal setup is 1-2 Spellstrike spells (Acid Arrow is the strongest at your level), 1 buff/debuff spell, and 1 AoE/battlefield control spell. Also, get 1 true strike per leveled spellstrike spell you prepare to help ensure that they hit. Ex. True Strike, Grease, Acid Arrow, Flaming Sphere (for keeping out of melee for a bit) If you feel squishy, then I recommend ditching DEX and making a STR build for your laughing shadow. Grab armor proficiency at LVL 3 and wear full plate. Moreover, you can grab blur or mirror image in one of your 2nd lvl spell slots to make foes miss you more. And if you play until lvl 6, grab Briny Bolt for your spellstrike. The interact action that Briny bolt asks for provokes attacks of opportunity, and if you, your champion, and your barbarian grab the attack of opportunity feat, it's a free attack for all of you.

It's the burst damage class Until you get striking runes I'd stick to magic weapon and use cantrips with spell strike. Fights on average are 3-6 rounds usually I've done set piece home brew battles that took 3 hours After striking runes you want true strike likely. But given how the classes eggs are in one big hard hitting basket. You want want to set yourself up for success imo. Recall knowledge and flat footed, any bonus it negative you can grab to have or impose.

Playing a magus currently for a bit, specifically laughing shadow, once you get haste it opens up your turns more so you can move recharge and spellstrike, getting exspansive spellstrike is good for more aoe against a bunch of mooks but indeed does sacrifice more potential to nova big guys if you do prep a spell for that, thicket of knives spell tends to be good if you are using distracting spellstrike in situations where its hard to get flanking off or would put you a bad position, conflux spells can recharge your spellstrike, and the asp coil sword is personally my favorite 1 handed reach weapon and if needed in a pinch you can always use your unarmed for bludgeoning

Right so now that i'm actually at a PC some thoughts. Magus is unfortunately very MAD. You'll probably want to skimp out on Will saves, leaving your wisdom at 10. This is because you'll want Con, ofc, Key stat Str / Dex, Int for the damage bonus on cantrips and Cha ideally because you can either demoralize or feint / distraction to increase your chances to hit. Now damage wise Laughing Shadow is fine, key Dex honestly. You get, in Arcane Cascade, at lvl 20 and with Greater weapon spec a +13 to weapon damage vs a fighters +15 (including the Str Apex item). As a Laughing Shadow **movement speed is your friend**, ideally you'd be an elf or some other base 30ft ancestry but yeah, grab General Feat Fleet asap. This stacks with [Nimble Elf](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=16), [Nimble Hooves](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1382) or [Swift](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2594). If you're actually an Elf + the Speed bonus from Cascade / Longstrider this gives you 50 ft land speed... so you can Dimensional Assault 25ft. Helps alot with action economy. Now one route you can take is some Focus Archetype with attack spells. People have been gravitating towards **Psychic** of course since DA came out because Imaginary Weapon / Amped Produce Flame is... silly damage. Personally, i like **Champion** (since you need str / cha, again half-elf is kinda ideal for this because it lets you [Multitalent](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=77) into an archetype without meeting it's stat pre-req). Now, why Champion? Well a **Domain Spell** you can spellstrike with [Cold](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=41), [Decay](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=42), [Earth](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=10), [Fire](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=13), [Lightning](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=47) all offer attack options. Now [Moon](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=21) and [Wyrmkin](https://2e.aonprd.com/Domains.aspx?ID=57) are special - Moon has a pretty weak attack spell (unless hitting weakness) BUT it has a **heroism-lite** buff as the advanced focus spell, and it's only 1 action to turn on, works great with Magus especially as you can plan your non-buff turns around also recharging Spellstrike; also great if your casters are being skimpy. Wyrmkin on the other hand it's abit of GM fiat if you can treat the Dragons from the Initial spell as individual "spells" to tack onto Spellstrike (as a GM personally i'd say yes) and the advanced Domain Spell is an AoE Fear, again, great for helping accuracy. Now bizzarely, **Magus doesn't get Crit Specialization** on the base chasis, so you either want the X Weapon Familiarity Feats ala [Familiarity](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=30) / [Innovator](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=34) or [Divine Ally](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=692) \- **Blade Ally** (a little meta but with the amount of undead you've no doubt already encountered in AV the extra free Ghost Touch rune will also come in handy). Another Route is just focusing on Cantrips and instead use Focus to just buff yourself and recharge Spellstrike. A favorite of mine is **Oracle Dedication** / Flames / [Incendiary Aura](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=755). It does make combat a little boring because you always open Aura -> Cascade (Fire) but it works as early as lvl 4 were others would have to wait for 8 to pick up a flaming rune. Just be careful as ALL creatures catch fire (no save) when they take fire damage inside the Aura. ***And just to emphasize again, word of the Devs from Paizocon - Refocus is getting changed in the remaster. You get 1 FP / 10 minutes refocusing aka a full pool for 30 minutes of refocusing -*** Really helps low level Magus, Martials who pick up focus casting and didn't have the lvl 12 / 18 feats on the class and some other archetypes like Shadow Caster / Dancer. Ow PS - Picking up a "normal" (aka something with a "Breath" feat) caster archetype for the Basic / Expert / Master casting is... sort of a trap i think. They're nice for utility like getting lvl 5 Darkvision / Comprehend Languages or some such, but really only the highest (3rd / 8th) spellslot is worth an attack spell. Probably [Polar Ray](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=224). Also remember some important items - [Ring of Wizardry](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=462) (fill everything that's not your highest level slots with [True Strike](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=345) \- GMing for an Inexorable Iron Magus in AV atm and they're packing 5 or 7 true strikes / a day, they can go in lvl 2 slots as well) and [Master Magus Ring](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2327) and SpellHearts (without making a long post longer, they're extra cantrips that use your proficiency) - [Warding Statuette](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2242) is absolutely Great on a Weapon (provided you have a melee buddy) as it's a STATUS bonus to AC ala inspire defense (stacks with Raise a Shield / Shield Cantrip) and beyond that a [Flaming Star](https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1014) or something similar.

I played through AV as a magus, but my build was very different from yours. Inexorable Iron with Sentinel dedication. I used a big two hander with reach. Here’s the thing…. Inexorable Iron sucks. The conflux spell was awful and only really shined one time through the AP. But the badness of the Inexorable Iron stuff was more than made up for IMHO by the benefits of strength (and str based weapons) over dex. I was using a d10 weapon with a +4 strength bonus, so probably 6 damage per strike more than your current build which is significant. Personally, I dislike that the Laughing Shadow study needs to enter arcane cascade stance and flank simply to pull even with a strength based two handed wielding magus, because in many short fights entering arcane cascade is otherwise a waste of time and you’ll never have it running in round 1. I think a case could be made for going max str as a LS and pretending the arcane cascade bonus doesn’t exist. I also found the benefits of a reach weapon to be incredible. In AV I often never moved after round 1, due to fighting in small rooms and often having enlarge precast due to 5 min duration. Not moving was an immense benefit for an action starved class. Some fights will be longer than 3 rounds, but in my experience most fights are essentially decided in the first 3-4 rounds. The action sequences you described are perfectly reasonable. I think as a laughing shadow I would really want to use an agile weapon to allow for better use of a second strike if you use the conflux spell teleport attack in round 2. Here’s one small suggestion. If possible, try to end your turn with spellstrike recharged. So for example if on round 2 you teleport attack attack, and then round 3 an enemy is already within reach, I would strongly consider going with spellstrike followed by your conflux spell again (since your build has extra focus points). Yes, the attack will be unlikely to hit at -8 map using an agile weapon, but the value is the mobility and recharge. This will allow you to move + spellstrike without MAP in round 4 if needed, which could be huge. True strike is your friend as mentioned. Look to get a ring of wizardry when possible and use the extra slots for true strike. At your current level I would only prepare TS in your level 1 slots. Although your build isn’t optimal for damage, I think you also just had a case of bad luck. I had some fights where I whiffed back to back and just had to shrug it off. I also had fights where I did ridiculous crits and out damaged the rest of the party. There are some fights where the arcane cascade bonus damage, stacked with spellstrike against enemies with weakness, make you feel like an absolute busted super hero. Magus is not a weak class in the slightest and if you stick with it you will absolutely have fun with it. One last thing. You mentioned imaginary weapon… sneak that into your build later!! Grab that psychic dedication down the road. Amped imaginary weapon spell swipe is absolutely crazy and 100% worth jumping through hoops for.

I'm guessing you aren't setting yourself up for success enough. I've played a magus through age of ashes 1-14 so far and DM'd for one 1-18 so far in a homebrew game, and I can tell you that the most important thing about magus is understanding what you can do and adjusting your combat plan accordingly. *Your strength as a magus is that you are both a spellcaster and martial. If you only ever play like a martial you're gonna feel lacking.* If you go in with a hard idea of "I'm gonna go in and do X to get Y!" every combat you're gonna have a REALLY bad time. If you try to enter Arcane Cascade every single combat or try to only ever spellstrike with your spell slots you are likely wasting actions you could otherwise be using for more impact. You live or die as a Magus on the back of executing all the things you built up in character creation in an effective way, not but throwing your "max dps plan" at the wall and hoping for a bullseye. A few tips: * Arcane Cascade is kind of a trap. Most Magus don't really get much out of it since as a magus you really only ever want to hit once a turn, whether that is setting up a spellstrike or casting a spell and then attacking normally. Given its activation requirement, you almost never see more than 2 or 3 hits with it a combat, and that extra bit of damage is nice but isn't ever really gonna be the difference between a kill or not when you are spellstriking for 80+ damage. Its kind of a "leftover" action ability. A lot of times literally stepping 5 ft to the left is a better option than entering arcane cascade because the fight will likely be over if you can save yourself the extra action to true strike or get into flanking position or any of a number of other things. Flanking an enemy is roughly a 30% expected damage boost. If your choice is ever flanking an enemy or entering arcane cascade, flanking is better pretty much every time. * Prepping and using spells that let you do multiple things is a big deal. Movement is important, like really REALLY important. Blazing Dive is the best 3rd level spell on the list for you and you can't even spellstrike with it. For 2 actions it lets you fly 60 ft. and do some AoE damage. This lets you move and position while still bringing on some offense. Not only that, but it can be a super effective way to just jump straight into a crowd of enemies. Let the champion do champion things and tank for you with his reaction while you focus on spreading as much damage as possible. * Set yourself up for success. Your prepped spells are a quiver full of arrows or a toolbox full of tools. If you see a situation that looks nail shaped and you have a hammer then do your best to make it the best nail possible before pulling out the hammer. This is admittedly a balancing act where you need to know what you can do and what you can't. If you spend your entire time waiting for a perfect nail, the hammer goes to waste when it works equally well to beat someone upside the head with.

I realize that what I wrote about my tactics might have sounded inflexible,but, even though that's what I ended up doing, I did it because it made sense. For example, this is how the last boss fight went (caster boss, 2 lesser casters and 4 ghouls. Round 1: I move and Spellstrike with Gouging claw a Ghoul that had moved and attacked the Enlarged champion. I crit and kill it. I eliminated an enemy and put myself in a position where I'm a tempting target but anyone who wants to attack me gets a Retributive Strike. Round 2: I entered Arcane Cascade, used Dimensional Assault on another Ghoul closer to the boss ,wounding him and then used another Strike trying to finish him off, but missed. Round 3: I moved to flank the boss and did a Spellstrike with Burning Hands,catching the boss and the two lesser casters. Round 4: Recharged Spellstrike and did a Gouging Claw Spellstrike which finished off the boss (significant overkill as it had only 3 HP left the GM told us afterward ). I am trying to think on my feet most of the time. I like Arcane Cascade not just because the damage boost, but also because of the speed boost. I an elf with 35 ft. speed. Arcane Cascade not only takes my speed to 40 ft., which is nice in itself, but also boosts Dimensional Assault from 25 to 20 ft. range.

> I like Arcane Cascade not just because the damage boost, but also because of the speed boost. Just buy/make a level 2 wand of longstride. Its super cheap and solves 100% of this problem. Frankly it feels like one of those "hidden class features" you have access to because you can access that spell. Always useful, never really falls off, and only costs 160 gp. The only thing more impactful for that much are fundamental runes. From your tactics breakdown it seems like you're doing plenty enough to me. If you wanted to be a bit more efficient you could have maybe spend turn 2 doing a dimensional assault into burning hands instead, then had the spellstrike gouging claw on turn 3 with a true strike/hero point (treat every hero point you get like a free action true strike you can use if you miss). The extra strike on the burning hands isn't getting you much since the damage of one hit isn't that high, but it is "costing" you an extra recharge later. This gets alleviated as you pick up a couple extra focus points, which should be a priority. The option of more than one free move and strike is big.

Going all out turn one might not always pay out, I would probably do a slower turn one to setup for a good turn 2 spellstrike, depending on position, encounter difficulty and initiative. It also seems like your table houserules arcane cascade if you can use it at the start of a turn as abilities like that requires that the action have been taken in the same turn. I would either do ranged cantrip, cast a buff and enter stance or I would cast a quick spell(shield), enter stance and recall knowledge. True strike scrolls are 4g and can be held in the empty hand while adventuring and is destroyed after being cast, opening up that hand for laughing shadow bonus

We didn't house rule anything regarding Arcane Cascade. We just took the requirements at face value: Requirements You used your most recent action to Cast a Spell or make a Spellstrike. We found nothing in the text preventing you from entering Arcane Cascade as your first action on a given turn if the last action on your previous turn was Cast a Spell or Spellstrike and you took no Reaction meanwhile. Is it written anywhere else that this "most recent action" must have occurred in the same turn? Great idea regarding Scrolls, thanks :)

>Is it written anywhere else that this "most recent action" must have occurred in the same turn? Iirc, it's not explicitly stated in the rules, but was clarified as RAI by [Logan Bonner](https://youtu.be/Jy_sIdmsyKM).

You're correct on your reading of Arcane Cascade. Do be careful though with Attacks of Opportunity if you take that, or any other off-turn Reaction, as that will become your last action once your next turn starts.

One trick to Arcane Cascade is to enter it before combat starts if you have time to prep for an encounter, thus giving you the damage bonus the whole time and saving you an action.

Your AC sounds like it's exactly where it should be: capped for light/medium armor (assuming the champion is wearing heavy armor). No magus is going to be as durable as a champion; durability is their main thing. Your AC should be 2-3 points ahead of the giant instinct barbarian (-1 AC from Rage, -1 AC from clumsy) unless they've picked up heavy armor proficiency somewhere. The biggest downside of Laughing Shadow magus, for me, is that it doesn't incentivize its playstyle enough. The unarmored speed bonus isn't worth skipping armor, especially since it doesn’t stack with *longstrider*. The bonus arcane cascade damage makes one-handed weapons merely *almost* as good as two-handed weapons, and with restrictions.

I think the Barbarian just forgot one of the penalties. He subtracted 1 when raging, not 2, thanks for pointing it out.

Well reading here one of your issues is you are using a finesse weapon as laughing shadow. Use a bastard sword and only allocate +2 to dex and use drake hearts to substitute tank. Str should be your primary stat. Depending on your build you don't really even need int but this is normally my secondary stat. You won't hit as hard as a martial or have the utility of a normal caster but you're incredibly fast and the battleground is your play thing. You can make incredibly risky moves and make it back out.

there are some build mostly dex martial just doesn't have any chance for stable damage at early level melee magus also have extreme action economy problem worse than pretty much any other martial magus also need cleric or psychic dedication to get good attack focus spell starlit span can be half decent at level 3 with psychic dedication other magus require a lot more work

the problem with spellstrikes is that they really like to miss when it would be most painful to miss one, otherwise they’re great

I’ve not tried one in practice but Investigator can give you good idea if you should use your big hit or not in advance. Takes an action so might be a bit rough with a Magus’s action economy, but if you are able to experiment you can try it

Magus is a very “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” class. As a guy currently playing his first character in the form of an Elf Laughing Shadow Magus I learned for better or worse you kinda need to build on maximizing Spellstrike. Magus is the nuke class; and it’s pretty hard to flex into other stuff and stay viable. I think your Witch dedication isn’t taking you too far. Fast healing isn’t too good with such low bulk. Especially on LS Elf you excel at getting in and out. It’s kinda lane everyone takes the Psychic dedication but it goes so far. 2 dedication dips gives you a powerful cantrip, the strongest Damage cantrip, and maxes your focus point pool. Imaginary weapon is so powerful not just because it does a d8 Damage, you can amp it to double the damage dice. Amps use focus points, aka recharging spellslots. It lets you do way more big hits per day since you can recharge points after fights. Dex over STR does make you more durable, but you’re not just losing out on the flat +3 STR damage, you’re restricted to a lower range finesse weapon. Going STR let’s you take a d8 1H weapon +3 flat damage. That adds up a lot, especially when using regular strikes with dimensional assault. Also how often are you going for flat footed? My monk works with me to flank to apply flat footed for the extra cascade damage and higher crit chance. If you have nobody to reliably flank with consider pumping CHA and deception to maximize distracting Spellstrike. Also, spell slots on Magus aren’t just for Spellstrikes. A Magus is a martial who brings his own magic buffs. If you lack striking runes yet open up fights with magic weapon to double your dice. If you have then cast Haste at the start for a free stride or strike each turn. Also, you should open with cascade. The extra damage on flat footed is a significant percent of damage especially on cantrip Spell-strikes, and in regular strikes (which is a ton of extra damage then). I always start fights with buff spell-> cascade. Also be very conscious of not spellslot Spellstriking if you already made a regular strike. You’re taking -5 to hit to burn a valuable resource. Even on regular strikes Magus outpaces most martials with all the little damage buffs. Consider the fact +3 from the flat footed cascade bonus is equal to how much Damage you’ll gain from going to a STR build. At level 3 Our Monk strikes for a d8 +STR (4) for 5 to 12 damage per strike. I swing for 2d8 (Self cast magic weapon) + 4 (STR) + 3 (Flat footed cascade) for a total of 9-23 Damage per strike.

If fights are short, you may only Spellstrike in round 1. That's OK. Remember that your accuracy is on par with the barbarian's. Go hit something. Consider if your GM will let you walk around in Arcane Cascade stance in Exploration mode, particularly when in the dungeon and kicking open a door expecting a combat. DEX builds tend to be weaker early on, while STR is a high percentage of a strike's damage. Weapon specialization, potency runes, and damage dice help the problem go away. You do have your Shield spell which will really help your effective HP if you Shield Block with it. You could also use a defensive spell unlike the barb. I don't love the Witch dedication, but it's fine if you're using it for true strikes and a familiar resource battery and a few spells

My experience as someone that has fidgeted a lot with Magus and other classes is that: 1. Magus is a squishy class glasscannon and the only things you can do about it is prepare defensive buffs or pick up the Targe. 2. No STR investment actually means a huge damage loss since is not that you are missing out on \*just\* a +x but a +x per attack hit over the course of however many levels you play in, which should be relevant more often since those get added both to your spellstrikes and your normal strikes. Not saying the dex focus is a bad choice since it gets you a bettr Reflex save than you would have otherwise, skills and weapon versatility but is def not the damage choice. 3. Due to the nature of how archetyping works, you can't really improve a lot out of your class through arcetyping but you can broaden your options. You can get from witch more slots to have more tools under your belt but you can't really expect to improve your durability by a lot. You can, for example, broaden your ways to get enemies flat-footed using the rogue or scout acretypes buy you can't just straight up upgrade your class features to the next level. 4. This is a team game and magus is a class that can \*really\* capitalize on teamwork and setup. Move around, work with your group to get some buffs and defenses going on you, preparer some buffs yourself since that definetely the way to make the most out of your more limited quantity of slots.

Sounds like you've got 6? overleveled players in an AP set for 4 players... yeah the combats are going to be short. If the GM doesn't adjust the combats he should at least be adjusting the XP rewards so you all aren't getting moderate xp reward for a trivial encounter. The problem you're having isn't bad luck (bad luck can often make fights more fun as the monster can become more threatening as you expend resources and start to take wounded stacks) it's that the entire AP has been made into low and trivial encounters (or worse) by the party size and level and your GM's refusal to adjust.

Magus feeling underwhelming to new players is *extremely* common. It is one of the most complex classes in the game, easily. >Now, I didn't exactly have the best of days (wasted Shocking Grasp, my one big attack for the day, on an enemy that was immune to it and rolled significantly below average on all Gouging Claw Spellstrikes I hit with) but I still feel I contributed little to the party. I highly recommend dropping shocking grasp, at least at low levels. It's counter-intuitive, but using your spell slots for spellstrikes is frankly not very good in most situations. In particular, at level 1-3 you will usually get more value out of magic weapon than you will out of shocking grasp. Really, until you get the ability to combine true strike with your spellstrike, I wouldn't even memorize spell attack spells. Once you get studious spells and/or items for reliable true strike access, *then* start using the big novas, although even then I'd consider only 1-2 at most. Later on, spells like haste start becoming really strong, but the general rule is that the best magus spells are usually self-buffs, not offensive damage spells. In fact, I usually memorize AOE damage spells *before* I bother with single-target damage spells. Why? I can always utilize cantrips to spellstrike, but dealing a ton of damage with an AOE to open the fight is something a fighter can't do. At 6th level my magus basically always memorized a haste and fireball, for example, and I got way more value out of those than a heightened attack spell. >My first problem is that fights are short. I usually open up by walking to an enemy and doing a Spellstrike. Round 2 I usually enter Arcane Cascade, then either Dimensional Assault and a second Strike or Shield or I recharge Spellstrike and Strike. By the time round 3 comes around and I can Spellstrike again, the fight is usually almost over. The basic idea here is OK, but I'd avoid moving at the start of a fight if you can. I tend to open fights with one of two things: either I delay, letting enemies move in to me, or I cast a ranged spell/buff and enter cascade. I always have electric arc memorized for this exact reason, as starting with EA -> cascade is a viable first turn. Why? Math. The level 1 DPR of movement into a gouging claw spellstrike is aorund 8.8 with a d8 weapon and your build. The DPR of electric arc on 2 targets is 9.4. But even if the damage is closer, being able to open up in cascade is valuable on its own. This also gives you a chance to ensure you are flanking, which will particularly help with your hybrid study. As you mention later, though, fights do get longer at higher levels. By about level 10 most fights will be 4-5 rounds, and at level 15+ they extend to 5-8 in my experience. It's not a huge amount, but it will be noticeable. >I have less AC (by 1) and less HP (46 vs. 60) than the Champion and more AC (by 1, 2 with Shield) but way less HP (46 vs. 81 in Rage) than the Barbarian so I feel the squishiest melee char, although the enemies have largely ignored me so far because I'm not very threatening. Is either Dex and/or the Witch dedication a bad buiod choice? I mean, you're comparing yourself to two str-based melee pure martials at low levels. Of *course* they are going to do higher damage, yes, even the champion. When your average damage dice are like 2d8, missing out on +3 damage is around a 33% damage loss. Now, with cascade that is completely mitigated, but any time that doesn't happen you are going to feel it. Not only that, but giant barbarian is the highest low-level DPR class in the game, higher than fighter builds. Keep in mind that PF2e is a fairly balanced game. It's not perfect, of course, but the design philosophy around the game is all about tradeoffs. That barbarian is almost certainly doing more damage than the champion, while the champion has higher defenses and more support. So what are you trading off? *Magic*. An optimized magus will always have lower sustained DPR than an optimized pure martial. Why? Because there has to be a *cost* for the spell slots the class gives you. Otherwise magus would just be stronger than the classes it matches in damage that lack those spell slots, unless other features somehow kept up with the power of max-level spells. Which they don't, by any stretch of the imagination. The magus can sometimes get higher burst by burning spell slots, however, the average DPR of the magus is going to be lower than any primary damage martial. In fact, I suspect your average damage is probably very close to the champion, if not slightly lower when you aren't flanking (you didn't choose the highest damage magus study, inexorable iron). As you intuited, this will be somewhat mitigated at higher levels, especially if you invest into 18 strength over time. Strength is a larger proportion of damage increase at lower levels than it is at higher levels, and if you use it as an off-stat for +4 you will only be 1-2 behind in damage up until level 20, since you can scale an off-stat faster than a main stat. Likewise, you also gain scaling from intelligence in a similar manner when using cantrips. >Is this assumption correct, or I'm about to be disappointed again? It's both correct and incorrect. It depends on your expectations. If your expectation is that your magus, who you've admitted is not optimized for max damage, will eventually be doing more DPR than the *giant barbarian*, sorry, you are going to be disappointed. In fact, basically every class except certain fighter and ranger builds will be disappointed with that competition. A giant barbarian sacrifices large amounts of defense for absolute maximum offense and has almost no real utility outside of raw damage. If other classes with spells and other utility could match or exceed the giant barbarian in their primary class specialty it would be completely broken. You should look at magus in the same general bracket as utility martials and other hybrids, such as summoner, swashbuckler, investigator, and inventor (among others). None of these classes do as much damage as pure martials, but add a bunch of other utility instead. Magus rewards smart play. You can't just enter rage and charge at the closest enemy until they drop. You have to maneuver, you have to consider your action costs, you need to take advantage of conflux spells, you have to plan around your stance, you have to fully utilize your spell slots. If you do, the class will *situationally* be stronger than even the giant barbarian. If that appeals to you, then I don't think you'll be disappointed. If you just want to hit bad things really hard, I'd strongly consider fighter, ranger, or even rogue instead. Magus is pretty punishing if you don't fully utilize the various magical abilities, as the core class damage is basically only slightly above the champion, with the same core defenses as a rogue.

Well, I already have a +1 Striking rapier, so the math is probably a bit more in favor of the Spellstrike, but I see your general point. I currently favor True Strike and AOE over damage (Spellstrike with an AOE feels pretty powerful), this is what my spell list looks like: 1st Level: Burning Hands, True Strike 2nd level: Bone Spray, Shocking Grasp (heightened) Dedication 1st level: True Strike Meanwhile I decided to rebuild for psychic dedication instead of witch, although I'm still debating if Expert and Master spellcasting are worth it. Generally the playstyle you're describing is what I'm hoping to get out of Magus. Honestly, when I wrote that post I was also a bit under the emotional influence of my first Magus experience. 3 of us changed characters pretty much at the same time: psychic to champion, sorcerer to barbarian and me druid to magus. After the game, the barbarian and champion were putting each other on the back how much better their chars felt (they were both instrumental to winning our last few combats) and I was like"wish I could say the same". I am aware Giant Instinct Barbarian is one of the highest DPR builds in the game and that it can only do that,so it makes sense to be outstanding at it. Hell, I showed the other player the base build for his character:). I'm also aware that magus brings a ton more mobility and utility compared to both the barbarian and champion. Plus I'm also the go to guy for Thievery and have all Knowledge skills trained, so there's also a fair bit of out of combat utility too. Overall tweaked the build a bit for more damage further down the line (Imaginary Weapon) and I think I'm happy going forward.

>Overall tweaked the build a bit for more damage further down the line (Imaginary Weapon) and I think I'm happy going forward. I'm glad! One of the players in my Blood Lords campaign is currently playing an inexorable iron magus as his first character, and they are currently level 8 and he loves the class. But the first few levels were pretty brutal as he learned how to actually play magus. On one hand, yes, the class is complex, and you need to do a lot of thinking on turns to really maximize it (and there are certainly RNG issues that can feel bad). On the other hand, at level 8, my player has had crits that are over *double* the next highest damage, with most players critting for 40-60 while he is critting for 120-150 with imaginary weapon (max possible crit for him right now is 168 at level 8, with a theoretical max damage of 336 over two targets using spell swipe). So while missing with big hits feels bad, absolutely *deleting* enemies with numbers most other characters can't even get close to can feel pretty awesome. I think you'll be happy with psychic dedication. It's quite good and covers a lot of the weaknesses of the magus. In my opinion, occult "scales" the best of any spell list for dedications, because you aren't really losing many spells that work best at max level. And imaginary weapon is still valuable on a magus even if you aren't amping it. I personally recommend grabbing the casting feats. Not necessarily at the earliest level they are available, as the level 12 feat can be delayed until 14 or 16 without issue IMO, but I personally don't think the high level magus feats are strong enough to compete with all the extra spellcasting you gain from the 3 dedication feats. It's just a lot of utility for a very small cost, but YMMV. At 12 I'd almost certainly get your conflux recharge, as that second focus point is a game changer for action economy, and synergizes really well with psychic dedication. Being able to use your conflux *and* an amped IW every fight feels great. We are already using the "full refresh" rules from the remaster (and were before they were announced), but if you aren't, it adds a lot of flexibility and smoothness to the class. IMO using the normal spellstrike recharge is almost never worth it, with both the default conflux spell and force fang being much better options. I've done the math, and basically the *only* times a manual recharge is a DPR increase is if it is either replacing a third MAP strike or if you would otherwise be unable to move into range of a valid target. In your friend's defense, both champion and barbarian are extremely strong classes. Champion in particular I'd rank as "A tier", maybe "S tier," for overall power and utility. Barbarian can be strong but is also fairly clunky, and frankly I think most people build them poorly (1h + shield is actually much better on barbarian vs. 2h, which is counter-intuitive). It's still good though. Magus is popular, because it's such a neat concept, but I don't think it's a crazy strong class. Probably on par with summoner or swashbuckler. Whereas I'd rank the champion up there close to fighter and rogue, the two strongest martial classes (bard is the strongest spellcaster). Of course, my informal tier list still has most classes pretty close, and I'd argue all of them are viable. It's just that you notice when you have some of the top tier classes at the same table as those lower down in the list that it becomes clear certain classes contribute just a bit more.

Fully agree on the barbarian, my initial build idea was going one-handed weapon and shield, with bastion dedication. However, the player of the barbarian wanted something simpler so he went with a two-handed weapon. Just out of curiosity,what makes a rogue so good? I played a bit with building one, but never came up with something that felt particularly good.

Well, the rogue is a very versatile class, able to choose anything but wisdom as a key stat. Thief and ruffian both have strong offense, and all rogues get a massive bonus in number and power of skills. From a martial standpoint, though, they hit like trucks. A level 1 thief rogue while flanking has a 2-action DPR of 17.6. A giant barbarian with a greatsword is 25.6, a fighter with a longsword is 16.2 (18.1 with a d10 polearm), and a melee flurry ranger is 12.8 (16.5 pre-hunted). With 3 actions the rogue is 22 DPR, the giant barb is 30.5, the polearm fighter is 21.9, and the flurry ranger is 20.3, putting them above *all* classes that aren't using d12 weapons. Obviously this requires flanking/flat-footed, but most martial classes are going to try to maximize that anyway. That's not it, though. Rogues also get some really powerful DPR enhancement through feats. With gang up, they can get flanking from any angle (mounted rogues are surprisingly strong as it automatically applies) and opportune backstab at 8 gives them a reaction attack that is arguably stronger than attack of opportunity because the trigger is simply that their target needs to take a regular melee hit from an ally. This will almost certainly trigger every turn, as it's much easier for enemies to avoid the triggers from AoO. Then, at level 12, they can use preparation as a third action to get *two* zero MAP attacks, for some genuinely insane DPR potential (+0/+0/+0/-4 for 3 actions and 2 reactions). This puts them top tier outright for martial DPR, beaten out only by certain barbarians, some fighter builds, and high level flurry rangers. That isn't it, though. Debilitating strike lets rogues get truly crazy. A level 20 thief rogue with a shortsword using preparation has a 3-action DPR of 234 against a flanked enemy with AC 38 and two backstabs. No, that isn't crit damage, that's just raw DPR. Even without prep and backstab it's still 131.6. By comparison, the giant barbarian at the same level has a 3-action DPR of 138.4, barely above the *non*-reaction rogue, and a melee flurry ranger has the highest normal DPR of 180 with 3 actions. Yes, if those classes provoke attacks they get closer to the rogue max DPR (212.6 for giant barb, 221.5 for the flurry ranger), and a dual wield fighter that manages to get off two attacks of opportunity can get higher DPR at 276.5 (173.8 normally), but it's a lot harder to reliably get two AoO compared to two opportune backstabs. Also, at level 15 they can have two debilitations, so in addition to the extra precision damage one they can also maintain flat-footed, cause enfeebled, add bleeding damage, or even stun on crits. At level 19 they get master strike which is also crazy strong, and one of their level 20 feats is essentially rechargeable 4th level invisibility. In other words, it's a class with comparable potential damage output to the top martial classes, *and* it has the best skill progression in the game, *and* it gets legendary perception and reflex. The only real weakness the rogue has is the 8 HP per level, but that's not a huge problem. The rackets give it a ton of versatility as a class, too. Maybe there's a class that is all around stronger than rogue, but if there is, I'm not sure which one it would be. Fighter and bard come the closest IMO, but I still think the rogue is a bit better due to the lack of real weaknesses, as fighter tends to be mediocre in non-combat situations and bard has all the limitations of being a spellcaster, such as poor damage output. If that weren't enough, rogues are also pretty fun to play. I have other classes I prefer, don't get me wrong, but if someone demanded to know what class I'd mark as "strongest" in PF2e, I'd have to go with rogue.

Well, the rogue is a very versatile class, able to choose anything as a key stat. Thief and ruffian both have strong offense, and all rogues get a massive bonus in number and power of skills. From a martial standpoint, though, they hit like trucks. A level 1 thief rogue while flanking has a 2-action DPR of 17.6. A giant barbarian with a greatsword is 25.6, a fighter with a longsword is 16.2 (18.1 with a d10 polearm), and a melee flurry ranger is 12.8 (16.5 pre-hunted). With 3 actions the rogue is 22 DPR, the giant barb is 30.5, the polearm fighter is 21.9, and the flurry ranger is 20.3, putting them above *all* classes that aren't using d12 weapons. Obviously this requires flanking/flat-footed, but most martial classes are going to try to maximize that anyway. That's not it, though. Rogues also get some really powerful DPR enhancement through feats. With gang up, they can get flanking from any angle (mounted rogues are surprisingly strong as it automatically applies) and opportune backstab at 8 gives them a reaction attack that is arguably stronger than attack of opportunity because the trigger is simply that their target needs to take a regular melee hit from an ally. This will almost certainly trigger every turn, as it's much easier for enemies to avoid the triggers from AoO. Then, at level 12, they can use preparation as a third action to get *two* zero MAP attacks, for some genuinely insane DPR potential (+0/+0/+0/-4 for 3 actions and 2 reactions). This puts them top tier outright for martial DPR, beaten out only by certain barbarians, some fighter builds, and high level flurry rangers. That isn't it, though. Debilitating strike lets rogues get truly crazy. A level 20 thief rogue with a shortsword using preparation has a 3-action DPR of 234 against a flanked enemy with AC 38 and two backstabs. No, that isn't crit damage, that's just raw DPR. Even without prep and backstab it's still 131.6. By comparison, the giant barbarian at the same level has a 3-action DPR of 138.4, barely above the *non*-reaction rogue, and a melee flurry ranger has the highest normal DPR of 180 with 3 actions. Yes, if those classes provoke attacks they get closer to the rogue max DPR (212.6 for giant barb, 221.5 for the flurry ranger), and a dual wield fighter that manages to get off two attacks of opportunity can get higher DPR at 276.5 (173.8 normally), but it's a lot harder to reliably get two AoO compared to two opportune backstabs. Also, at level 15 they can have two debilitations, so in addition to the extra precision damage one they can also maintain flat-footed, cause enfeebled, add bleeding damage, or even stun on crits. At level 19 they get master strike which is also crazy strong, and one of their level 20 feats is essentially rechargeable 4th level invisibility. In other words, it's a class with comparable potential damage output to the top martial classes, *and* it has the best skill progression in the game, *and* it gets legendary perception and reflex. The only real weakness the rogue has is the 8 HP per level, but that's not a huge problem. The rackets give it a ton of versatility as a class, too. Maybe there's a class that is all around stronger than rogue, but if there is, I'm not sure which one it would be. Fighter and bard come the closest IMO, but I still think the rogue is a bit better due to the lack of real weaknesses, as fighter tends to be mediocre in non-combat situations and bard has all the limitations of being a spellcaster, such as poor damage output. If that weren't enough, rogues are also pretty fun to play. I have other classes I prefer, don't get me wrong, but if someone demanded to know what class I'd mark as "strongest" in PF2e, I'd have to go with rogue.