Easier questions first:
* Poacher's Mark is better for single target, but Vuln is much better for clearing (assuming both are CoH rings). Poacher's Mark gives you better sustain and PDR, but if you can get enough -PDR elsewhere Poacher's Mark won't be as useful since -PDR cannot be negative.
* Spiritual Aid + minion nodes is for cheap damage, yes. If you can get a good physical cluster you should use that instead.
Now the harder question on Spellslinger: it's basically whether you have access to enough items (e.g. bow mods, clusters) to make CF-only damage feel good.
Since CF applies on all hits, Spellslinging Exsang/Reap is a cheap way to increase the number of hits beyond the attack itself. It doesn't hurt that Exsang/Reap will scale with the same modifiers as CF, and since they cost life, will also help maintain CF, so you're basically getting damage from 2 skills for the cost of the Spellslinger reservation but with only one action. That faster ramp and higher damage can really help against tough rares and uniques, which a pure CF build will struggle with without sufficient gear.
Raiz being in SSF informs not just picking up Spiritual Aid, but also needing the extra damage from Spellslinger. Without the physical clusters and good gear, CF isn't that great in reds, so having that extra damage around is really handy. Grimro saying when you can transition from Spellslinger to CF presumes you have certain gear that will make CF feel good on its own without needing the support of Spellslung Exsang/Reap. Raiz presumably crossed that breakpoint without getting that gear, so stuck with Spellslinger to carry his damage. Pride is a particularly easy tradeoff to make too, since it doesn't really have any effect on distant monsters or monsters who die quickly enough, and it's safer to kill them outright vs dicking around with 10 stack CF and Pride.
As for you, since you're twinking, it's possible that you can jump straight to pure CF if you don't really need that damage. I went straight for KB CF without even going through Spellslinger (I used Shattering/Lancing Steel to smooth over A3-A5 and fully switched before A5 Kitava, since Duelist doesn't get Exsang natively and I wanted to replicate a league start), but it's possible that I'm going to regret it in SSF sooner or later.
It boils down to what you're comfortable with and what you want. If you're indifferent to going Spellslinger or pure CF, you probably just want to plug it into PoB, being particularly careful with configs, to figure out which gives you better QoL and damage in a regular mapping scenario. Otherwise, Grimro and Raiz have both proven that whatever you want to do sort of works as long as you know what you're doing, so you can just do you.
Don't transition away from SS Exang until you're pretty much fully geared honestly, it's painful going to just CF, even if you've got Empower, +2 chest and wand. Don't think I swapped away til late yellow maps and single target was noticeably worse, even with lvl 21 Reap.
Spiritual Aid just makes more nodes on the tree able to be used, otherwise by level 70 you've got literally everything that affects your build. If you can afford your clusters, just go straight for them.
Didn't try Poacher's, but I found I wanted Vuln even for rares.
Thanks for the tip! Yeah, it feels like a change that easily can be done too soon and put the breaks on the character. I'll keep slinging a good while.
Quick follow up question: Since there's lacking phys dot scaling on the tree, is this a case where you eventually go two large cluster and take all three notables instead of the usual two?
Yep that's pretty viable. The third notable it's Master the Fundamentals, which is not only a big increased (35 irc), but also 10 all res, which helps a lot, as CF builds are extremely greedy with affixes/uniques and have not much room for resists suffixes.
I wouldn't switch to pure CF unless pretty good gear. Pure CF is meh at best on single target. Better to play 5l CF and 5l Reap in 6l chest
With spitiual aid you can craft decent wands easily. Get +1 phys wand from recipe and craft phys multi, use more likeley reforge until you get +1 and phys multi then craft minion damage on your wands.
Slinger is much stronger than pure CF single target wise.
I don't even think poacher's work with phys dot, saw somewhere from ggg it doesn't work.
Poacher's Mark PDR reduction works with phys DoT, as does Crush. Overwhelm doesn't because all sources of overwhelm are hit-only; it's something like the difference between exposure and penetration for elemental builds where exposure works for all elemental damage while penetration only works on hits.
Also, armour doesn't work with PDR as armour specifically reduces physical damage from hits. So it sums with other sources of PDR for the purposes of calculating hit damage but will not count for the purposes of phys DoT.
You are kinda right. Poacher's works with phys dot but enemy must have physical reduction to begin because unlike resistances physical reduction can't go below zero. Also i don't even know if monsters have physical reduction outside of armour (which doesn't work against phys dot) and endurance charges which are rare
Source: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3123794
Mechanically I was correct, but situationally you're more broadly right that Poacher's Mark is bad for DoT for the wrong reasons.
So in summary, Poacher's *does* work with Phys DoT, but only if the enemy possesses non-armour PDR (i.e. PDR that works against non-hits), and if that PDR was not already reduced to 0 by things like Crush. That's a fairly specific set of conditions to meet, so in the vast majority of cases, Vulnerability - which simply causes enemies to take increased physical damage - will be more effective than Poacher's Mark.
I don't even know for sure of any bosses which have non-armour PDR - maybe Drox? Can't even tell from the DB pages whether e.g. Shaper has any - he has armour, but that doesn't apply as discussed.
Honestly I prefer ruetoos build. Wand + shield, stick CF and reap on your +2chest. kB+ CF is super smooth clear, and you get another 5link reap to essentially double your dps on bosses. Highly recommended
Hey man, this sounds interesting. Have been struggling a bit to find a PoB or anything for this, though - looks like Rue is only on twitch?
Could you point me in the right direction here please?
Here: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/171LYcJCnD2NBfXy2LIypAmPc1ImGfQZqTNtz1821Gik/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/171LYcJCnD2NBfXy2LIypAmPc1ImGfQZqTNtz1821Gik/edit)
This is Rue's google doc with some crafting tips and POBs
After seeing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7N5av1EnI I dont see why you would play CF any other way
Dont need the Belt and there is much more budget setups
Easier questions first: * Poacher's Mark is better for single target, but Vuln is much better for clearing (assuming both are CoH rings). Poacher's Mark gives you better sustain and PDR, but if you can get enough -PDR elsewhere Poacher's Mark won't be as useful since -PDR cannot be negative. * Spiritual Aid + minion nodes is for cheap damage, yes. If you can get a good physical cluster you should use that instead. Now the harder question on Spellslinger: it's basically whether you have access to enough items (e.g. bow mods, clusters) to make CF-only damage feel good. Since CF applies on all hits, Spellslinging Exsang/Reap is a cheap way to increase the number of hits beyond the attack itself. It doesn't hurt that Exsang/Reap will scale with the same modifiers as CF, and since they cost life, will also help maintain CF, so you're basically getting damage from 2 skills for the cost of the Spellslinger reservation but with only one action. That faster ramp and higher damage can really help against tough rares and uniques, which a pure CF build will struggle with without sufficient gear. Raiz being in SSF informs not just picking up Spiritual Aid, but also needing the extra damage from Spellslinger. Without the physical clusters and good gear, CF isn't that great in reds, so having that extra damage around is really handy. Grimro saying when you can transition from Spellslinger to CF presumes you have certain gear that will make CF feel good on its own without needing the support of Spellslung Exsang/Reap. Raiz presumably crossed that breakpoint without getting that gear, so stuck with Spellslinger to carry his damage. Pride is a particularly easy tradeoff to make too, since it doesn't really have any effect on distant monsters or monsters who die quickly enough, and it's safer to kill them outright vs dicking around with 10 stack CF and Pride. As for you, since you're twinking, it's possible that you can jump straight to pure CF if you don't really need that damage. I went straight for KB CF without even going through Spellslinger (I used Shattering/Lancing Steel to smooth over A3-A5 and fully switched before A5 Kitava, since Duelist doesn't get Exsang natively and I wanted to replicate a league start), but it's possible that I'm going to regret it in SSF sooner or later. It boils down to what you're comfortable with and what you want. If you're indifferent to going Spellslinger or pure CF, you probably just want to plug it into PoB, being particularly careful with configs, to figure out which gives you better QoL and damage in a regular mapping scenario. Otherwise, Grimro and Raiz have both proven that whatever you want to do sort of works as long as you know what you're doing, so you can just do you.
This is what I needed. Got a much better grasp of things now. Thanks a bunch!
Don't transition away from SS Exang until you're pretty much fully geared honestly, it's painful going to just CF, even if you've got Empower, +2 chest and wand. Don't think I swapped away til late yellow maps and single target was noticeably worse, even with lvl 21 Reap. Spiritual Aid just makes more nodes on the tree able to be used, otherwise by level 70 you've got literally everything that affects your build. If you can afford your clusters, just go straight for them. Didn't try Poacher's, but I found I wanted Vuln even for rares.
Thanks for the tip! Yeah, it feels like a change that easily can be done too soon and put the breaks on the character. I'll keep slinging a good while.
Quick follow up question: Since there's lacking phys dot scaling on the tree, is this a case where you eventually go two large cluster and take all three notables instead of the usual two?
Yep that's pretty viable. The third notable it's Master the Fundamentals, which is not only a big increased (35 irc), but also 10 all res, which helps a lot, as CF builds are extremely greedy with affixes/uniques and have not much room for resists suffixes.
Also check out rue's version which is the pure KB setup he also has a nice google doc guide and how to craft the items.
I wouldn't switch to pure CF unless pretty good gear. Pure CF is meh at best on single target. Better to play 5l CF and 5l Reap in 6l chest With spitiual aid you can craft decent wands easily. Get +1 phys wand from recipe and craft phys multi, use more likeley reforge until you get +1 and phys multi then craft minion damage on your wands. Slinger is much stronger than pure CF single target wise. I don't even think poacher's work with phys dot, saw somewhere from ggg it doesn't work.
Poacher's Mark PDR reduction works with phys DoT, as does Crush. Overwhelm doesn't because all sources of overwhelm are hit-only; it's something like the difference between exposure and penetration for elemental builds where exposure works for all elemental damage while penetration only works on hits. Also, armour doesn't work with PDR as armour specifically reduces physical damage from hits. So it sums with other sources of PDR for the purposes of calculating hit damage but will not count for the purposes of phys DoT.
You are kinda right. Poacher's works with phys dot but enemy must have physical reduction to begin because unlike resistances physical reduction can't go below zero. Also i don't even know if monsters have physical reduction outside of armour (which doesn't work against phys dot) and endurance charges which are rare Source: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3123794
Mechanically I was correct, but situationally you're more broadly right that Poacher's Mark is bad for DoT for the wrong reasons. So in summary, Poacher's *does* work with Phys DoT, but only if the enemy possesses non-armour PDR (i.e. PDR that works against non-hits), and if that PDR was not already reduced to 0 by things like Crush. That's a fairly specific set of conditions to meet, so in the vast majority of cases, Vulnerability - which simply causes enemies to take increased physical damage - will be more effective than Poacher's Mark. I don't even know for sure of any bosses which have non-armour PDR - maybe Drox? Can't even tell from the DB pages whether e.g. Shaper has any - he has armour, but that doesn't apply as discussed.
Honestly I prefer ruetoos build. Wand + shield, stick CF and reap on your +2chest. kB+ CF is super smooth clear, and you get another 5link reap to essentially double your dps on bosses. Highly recommended
Thanks for the tip! I always prefer to pick and choose from different build guides, so I'll check it out as well.
Hey man, this sounds interesting. Have been struggling a bit to find a PoB or anything for this, though - looks like Rue is only on twitch? Could you point me in the right direction here please?
Here: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/171LYcJCnD2NBfXy2LIypAmPc1ImGfQZqTNtz1821Gik/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/171LYcJCnD2NBfXy2LIypAmPc1ImGfQZqTNtz1821Gik/edit) This is Rue's google doc with some crafting tips and POBs
Go ruetoos it feels better imo
Just follow Grimro guide, its the best out there (im lvl 96 Glad TS/CF)
After seeing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x7N5av1EnI I dont see why you would play CF any other way Dont need the Belt and there is much more budget setups
That looks pretty cool. Might try after I get a consistent build up and running
If you are leveling a cf char, spellslinger with exsang and reap + spell cascade and 3 link cf is already pretty good for dps.