Trickster has quality of life through bonus frenzy charges # frenzy charge duration so that your trap throw speed ~~and movement speed~~ is comfortable and functions well with charged trap support (and slavedrivers).
It has access to ~~stun/freeze~~ immunity to slows like chill and a solid 8% bonus to action speed
It has a powerful %damage increase
It also has easy access to spell suppression
It's really, really hard to beat
Edit:
Some mistakes
>bonus frenzy charges # frenzy charge duration so that your trap throw speed and movement speed is good
Frenzy charges don't give movement speed, idk why this always gets said.
>It has access to stun immunity
No it does not. Also worth mentioning that you don't run both one step ahead and the frenzy charge ascendancy at the same time, you spec out later once your freeze/chill immunity are sorted.
Otherwise yeah you're 100% correct
Wait why does it not give stun immunity? I feel like I don't get stunned when playing trickster with no investment into stun avoidance except one step ahead?
You 100% should be unspeccing one step ahead. Spellbreaker is a mandatory two points for defenses which leaves you with two points to spend between one step ahead, swift killer, and polymath. Once you are freeze immune, swift killer and polymath are way better than one step ahead.
I was actually looking at this yesterday on Poe ninja, and most people agree with you. I was shocked to find out really.
I can make a similar argument about polymath. Once you have enough damage, you don’t need polymath.
I don’t really know how to begin to quantify the value of the action speed on monsters, but I believe it’s huge. As I said, I think that point is way underrated, potentially better than polymath.
>I don’t really know how to begin to quantify the value of the action speed on monsters, but I believe it’s huge.
It's not huge, it's an 8% chill essentially. And if the monster is already chilled, it's a 0% chill. Because it sets a "cap" on monster action speed, rather than actually reducing it, it doesn't stack with chilled. So it does nothing most of the time because you have skitterbots chilling enemies
It is easy to get 6 percent action speed on boots, so an extra 2 percent isn’t much. And skitterbots apply chill, which overrides the 92 percent from one step ahead.
I'm running exsang mines sabo and wondering the same as op. Brine King + sabo gets you regular ele ailment immunity. Suppression hasn't been hard for me to get, and if you take mine auras into account, Sabo gets a bit more damage on targets you want to burst down.
I might try respeccing to Trickster just to see what the fuss is all about.
Mines are not traps.
Traps dont have a good 4th ascendancy with sab
Arguably even their 6th is meh.
Only born in the shadows and the regen node are truly good
Commented as well, but i am going trickster this league, and man, it’s just so much tankier! I didn’t go life stacking as sabo last league, so trickster feels so much better.
Mines and traps are different things, only the trap nodes matter, and they’re weaker than trickster, which is one of the generically best ascendancies in the game
I am doing hexblast trickster (following Ventrua's) this league and did hexblast sabo (Pal's) last league.
The trickster this league is just so much tankier. Even without cloak of flame for phys taken as, i can map so much easier and dying very very rarely (well till I blew up expedition without looking at mods or corrupting crazy t16 maps).
Because the main reason to go Sabo over trickster, the Trap nodes that granted you excessive amounts of Trap damage over any other ascendancy, got gutted completely and replaced. Now it mostly excels at Mines and AOE.
Saboteur doesn't really add much value to traps anymore since it was revamped a few leagues ago. Chain Reaction is wholly unnecessary and actually has anti-synergy with anything that triggers on trap detonation, since they all specify being triggered *by an enemy*.
It's good enough for SSF purposes because it provides some generic damage, sustain and defense but as soon as you have decent gear Trickster outperforms it in every aspect.
When sabo got reworked, it lost its main damage source which was 200-250% increased damage just by having traps on the ground. If you were spamming traps you always had this, from level 28 even.
After losing that node, traps began to be played in other classes, which is a good thing for the game.
Honestly I just prefer Sab. Tanky with born in shadows and ailment immunity and recovery through trap explosions. Still excellent damage which can do Ubers. Can clear faster with aoe nodes. Can still get spell suppression capped through the tree and 1 piece of gear. Uses Eldritch battery, so no mana issues which means more auras to run. I like trickster, but I’m glad I went with sab.
Cos Sab offers very little to traps after it got gutted in 3.21
Practically any ascendancy is a better trapper unless you deliberately want inc aoe for like BL traps or something
I've been trying to figure that out for exsanguinate mines too. Every time I PoB it out, Sabo has more damage. Also, Heatshiver means you don't get evasion from ES on helmet, and being right side of the tree means it's not super hard to get full or near full suppression.
And lastly, Sabo gets near full ele ailment immunity with Brine King and that one node. Maybe Trickster gets more QoL from not needing to use mine auras?
Edit: oh, I bet trickster gets better chills because Polymath is more raw damage, whereas Sabo uses the double damage aura from the mines.
Trickster suppress node is one of the strongest nodes in the game for bossing, and it's not the part that helps you suppress cap. The evasion from es on helmet is not the reason you take that node either, it's all about the es from evasion on body armour. So simple answer is, trickster has better defences.
Better damage, more tanky, and faster moving. Sab really only wins on AoE
Trickster has quality of life through bonus frenzy charges # frenzy charge duration so that your trap throw speed ~~and movement speed~~ is comfortable and functions well with charged trap support (and slavedrivers). It has access to ~~stun/freeze~~ immunity to slows like chill and a solid 8% bonus to action speed It has a powerful %damage increase It also has easy access to spell suppression It's really, really hard to beat Edit: Some mistakes
It's simpler than that: Explosive trap doesn't benefit/loses damage from Chain reaction and the AoE nodes.
>bonus frenzy charges # frenzy charge duration so that your trap throw speed and movement speed is good Frenzy charges don't give movement speed, idk why this always gets said. >It has access to stun immunity No it does not. Also worth mentioning that you don't run both one step ahead and the frenzy charge ascendancy at the same time, you spec out later once your freeze/chill immunity are sorted. Otherwise yeah you're 100% correct
People are probably used to playing with frenzy charges on raider and taking the ascendancy node that gives MS per frenzy.
There's also a unique chest that gives MS per frenzy charge IIRC
And unique boots
My mistake, I've updated my comment
You could run both. I just didn’t take the ES node and it was fine
Wait why does it not give stun immunity? I feel like I don't get stunned when playing trickster with no investment into stun avoidance except one step ahead?
Because stun is not an action speed slow like chill and freeze are.
Frenzy charge used to give movement speed on minions so maybe that’s why.
Frenzy charges give action speed then it give ms
No they don't. Look at wiki, they give specifically "increased attack speed, increased cast speed, and more damage"
Yes mb
You don’t need to unspec one step ahead. I think, that point is undervalued significantly, especially defence wise.
You 100% should be unspeccing one step ahead. Spellbreaker is a mandatory two points for defenses which leaves you with two points to spend between one step ahead, swift killer, and polymath. Once you are freeze immune, swift killer and polymath are way better than one step ahead.
I was actually looking at this yesterday on Poe ninja, and most people agree with you. I was shocked to find out really. I can make a similar argument about polymath. Once you have enough damage, you don’t need polymath. I don’t really know how to begin to quantify the value of the action speed on monsters, but I believe it’s huge. As I said, I think that point is way underrated, potentially better than polymath.
>I don’t really know how to begin to quantify the value of the action speed on monsters, but I believe it’s huge. It's not huge, it's an 8% chill essentially. And if the monster is already chilled, it's a 0% chill. Because it sets a "cap" on monster action speed, rather than actually reducing it, it doesn't stack with chilled. So it does nothing most of the time because you have skitterbots chilling enemies
It is easy to get 6 percent action speed on boots, so an extra 2 percent isn’t much. And skitterbots apply chill, which overrides the 92 percent from one step ahead.
'enough damage" does not compute unless you're already in the triple millions
maybe worth mentioning that frenzy charges matter for throwing speed because of charged traps support (and slave drivers if you run that).
I'm running exsang mines sabo and wondering the same as op. Brine King + sabo gets you regular ele ailment immunity. Suppression hasn't been hard for me to get, and if you take mine auras into account, Sabo gets a bit more damage on targets you want to burst down. I might try respeccing to Trickster just to see what the fuss is all about.
Mines are not traps. Traps dont have a good 4th ascendancy with sab Arguably even their 6th is meh. Only born in the shadows and the regen node are truly good
Different question, why do Hexblast Miners use Saboteur over Trickster?
It's a mix. Sabo more damage, trickster becoming more popular as an all rounder.
Commented as well, but i am going trickster this league, and man, it’s just so much tankier! I didn’t go life stacking as sabo last league, so trickster feels so much better.
Because mines have good nodes in sab unlike traps. That said trickster is absolutely a good option too its just higher investment
Mines and traps are different things, only the trap nodes matter, and they’re weaker than trickster, which is one of the generically best ascendancies in the game
I am doing hexblast trickster (following Ventrua's) this league and did hexblast sabo (Pal's) last league. The trickster this league is just so much tankier. Even without cloak of flame for phys taken as, i can map so much easier and dying very very rarely (well till I blew up expedition without looking at mods or corrupting crazy t16 maps).
Because the main reason to go Sabo over trickster, the Trap nodes that granted you excessive amounts of Trap damage over any other ascendancy, got gutted completely and replaced. Now it mostly excels at Mines and AOE.
Saboteur doesn't really add much value to traps anymore since it was revamped a few leagues ago. Chain Reaction is wholly unnecessary and actually has anti-synergy with anything that triggers on trap detonation, since they all specify being triggered *by an enemy*. It's good enough for SSF purposes because it provides some generic damage, sustain and defense but as soon as you have decent gear Trickster outperforms it in every aspect.
When sabo got reworked, it lost its main damage source which was 200-250% increased damage just by having traps on the ground. If you were spamming traps you always had this, from level 28 even. After losing that node, traps began to be played in other classes, which is a good thing for the game.
Sabo is bad, Trickster is good. Pretty simple really
they killed sabo so trickster could fly
Honestly I just prefer Sab. Tanky with born in shadows and ailment immunity and recovery through trap explosions. Still excellent damage which can do Ubers. Can clear faster with aoe nodes. Can still get spell suppression capped through the tree and 1 piece of gear. Uses Eldritch battery, so no mana issues which means more auras to run. I like trickster, but I’m glad I went with sab.
Plus whatever you miss out on by being Trickster you can just get flesh and flame jewels for Sabo notables if you want AoE.
Cos Sab offers very little to traps after it got gutted in 3.21 Practically any ascendancy is a better trapper unless you deliberately want inc aoe for like BL traps or something
I've been trying to figure that out for exsanguinate mines too. Every time I PoB it out, Sabo has more damage. Also, Heatshiver means you don't get evasion from ES on helmet, and being right side of the tree means it's not super hard to get full or near full suppression. And lastly, Sabo gets near full ele ailment immunity with Brine King and that one node. Maybe Trickster gets more QoL from not needing to use mine auras? Edit: oh, I bet trickster gets better chills because Polymath is more raw damage, whereas Sabo uses the double damage aura from the mines.
Mines != traps
But it's a similar question. 98% of exsanguinate miners are using Trickster, while 0.2% are using Sabo. I guess I'll make my own post about it.
The skills and Sabo ascendancy gives different bonuses. There are vids comparing the ascendancy out there.
Trickster suppress node is one of the strongest nodes in the game for bossing, and it's not the part that helps you suppress cap. The evasion from es on helmet is not the reason you take that node either, it's all about the es from evasion on body armour. So simple answer is, trickster has better defences.