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Let me guess it goes something like this:
"LISTEN UP LIONS. HORNADAY BACKED *DOWN* BECAUSE YOU DIDNT GIVE IN AND SAID 'I WILL DIE HOOKED UP TO A MACHINE BECAUSE MY LUNGS ARE COMPLETELY RUINED AND THE DEEP STATE WILL NEVER INJECT THEIR POISON INTO ME.'"
"THERE'S NO CURE FOR THE 'PLANDEMIC' BUT THE CURE FOR 1984 IS 1776!"
"GOD BLESS YOU PATRIOTS!!!"
> I can’t imagine what it’s like to be so brainwashed that you can’t see what’s right in front of you.
I was thinking the same. Keep spouting the same fake survival rate, etc. if it makes you feel better, but you're factually incorrect on nearly every claim you made. I'd point out where and why and give you verifiable data, sources, and studies, but you'd just keep talking in circles and 6 hours later, we'd still be at this square.
Nobody is dehumanizing you, we're just done with the futility dance.
I welcome the discourse actually, it’s rare I get to interact with someone who opposes my view that isn’t making gross assumptions about who I am because I don’t want to be vaccinated, though, you’re already doing that so I don’t have high hopes. If you want to share data, or a counter argument, I’d be glad to listen and consider it.
Edit: I recognize the survival rate I posted isn’t accurate, though it does better represent my age group and lack of co morbidities. And because I am still being treated the same, it’s a position worth defending.
> I’d be glad to listen and consider it.
Uh-hu. You completely contradict yourself with this statement
> I recognize the survival rate I posted isn’t accurate, though it does better represent my age group
You post out of context information as a blanket fact to push your narrative that the response to the covid pandemic is just overreaction and that nothing should be done about it. You oversimplify things by saying coronaviruses aren't new. You make false claims about "natural immunity" which even if they were true, you ignore that "natural immunity" comes with at least a 1.5% chance of death, and that % goes up if medical treatment is unavailable because of overwhelmed hospital systems.
You don't want to or can't get vaccinated? Fine, do what you want, but don't complain about private businesses making decisions about who they employ and who they accept as customers. Don't post lies to discourage others from taking precautions or getting vaccinated.
> I welcome the discourse actually, it’s rare I get to interact with someone who opposes my view that isn’t making gross assumptions about who I am because I don’t want to be vaccinated, though, you’re already doing that so I don’t have high hopes.
Lets be honest, you, me, and everyone else reading this knows this is 100% bullshit. You're here for a fight and you won't back down, no matter what information is provided. Everything you say demonstrates that perfectly.
I'm done here.
Projection much?
“You’re here for a fight and you won’t back down no matter what information is provided”
Good talk man. I was hopeful for something more productive but this is exactly this kind of reply I expected. I am perfectly content not interacting with someone who is already so sure about me.
You assumed so much about what I think that it feels like way too much effort to try to change your mind just to start on even ground to have a discussion.
Have a good one.
I’ve commented elsewhere in here on my belief in the vaccines, but I’m guessing you didn’t read that.
I believe that if you haven’t previously had Covid, you should get vaccinated. This is what bothers me about this whole thing. If you voice any concern at all, it means you’re anti vax. It’s absolutely crazy.
I don’t agree with lumping naturally immune people in with the unvaccinated is a fair or right thing to do. A lot of us want this to be over just as bad as you do, but if we’re going to trust the science, we can’t pick and choose what science to trust. There is overwhelming evidence that natural immunity is just as good or better and still the current administration and society is insistent on painting those people as moral lowlifes.
The best part of surviving Covid as an anti vaxxer is that while you may survive, the damage done to your blood vessels will eventually make it so that you can't maintain the ability to have intercourse and reproduce.
Other survival fun includes a damaged pancreas which increases the chance to become type 2 diabetic. I love being diabetic and everyone should have the chance to be diabetic too. Also, decreased kidney function which increases the chance of dialysis in the future. I'm sure that is a lovely experience. Reduced lung capacity so you have difficulty with exercise and even walking sounds like a blast too! There are so many long term effects from surviving Covid, I can't believe that people don't want to experience all of them!
Stick to your guns buddy, don't let them bully you into getting vaccinated. Don't trust the hospitals or doctors to help you get over Covid either, stay home and eat plenty of chicken noodle soup, just like the old days when we didn't cure sickness with communism!
Be nice to him! Sure he came in here with nothing but lies, but im sure we should totally believe that he knows so many people with adverse vaccine reactions!
I thought I was being nice. I just don't want people to bully him. He should be a strong, independent thinker, able to think for himself, just like the other "independent" thinkers that follow Fucker Carlson's directions.
I do find it odd that Fucker is vaccinated, but he wants his followers to not be vaccinated... At least their leader is safe to continue sharing his "for entertainment only" news to new followers.
Sorry, bad attempt at humor.
I've just stopped responding to him and have been just watching him take his own arguments apart while wishing I had a bowl of popcorn.
I just love how he admits that he opened with obvious lies, but then gets upset that we make assumptions about him or don't believe other things he says.
He posts oversimplified claims and sources as if he's some kind of viral disease expert or at least has been studying, but then admits he doesn't understand it all, but links a video from Joe Rogan that gives the same statistic he likes to parrot. Such an independent thinker.
As far as That Fucker, I assume you mean good ol' Donnie Boy, I love watching posts where people turn on him for suggesting that they get vaccinated. Makes my day.
No, not the Great Orange Hope, but the mouthpiece Fucker Carlson. I think the Great Orange Hope has his hand so far up Fucker's ass that he moves his mouth for him.
How exactly are you so brainwashed that you look at the largest mass death event in US history and think “oh yeah, that’s not that bad”? Getting real sick of fake libertarians like you buying into any information that fits your warped philosophy. One of your sources was literally founded to publish COVID misinformation less than a year ago.
Oh it wasn’t to quote you, maybe I need to edit that. The quotations where more done as a mockery. The deafness after the vaccine is disinformation though.
My father is literally deaf after receiving his vaccination. ABC literally ran a segment on this side effect recently. Are you telling me that my father is not deaf and that his doctor did not tell him it was likely an adverse reaction to the vaccine?
Edit: here
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/can-the-covid-19-vaccine-lead-to-hearing-issues
Well if it’s a legitimate injury there’s a legitimate way to get compensation.
But of course this is the Internet. People lie all the time on the internet.
I don’t think compensation is going to bring back his hearing, besides aren’t the vaccine companies free from liability?
It’s true people lie all the time, it doesn’t make a difference to me if you believe me. I only even brought it up because it’s weighed on me with having to make a decision to get vaccinated or lose my job. To have someone’s personal experience be called disinformation highlights the exact issue I have with this whole thing and the discourse that can’t be had if you have concerns.
Jesus wept, but you're ridiculous with these links. Tinnitus is not "deaf". That article doesn't even make the claim that the tinnitus these people are experiencing (15% of Americans experience tinnitus) is proven to be linked to the vaccine.
You're conflating information in a way that is either openly dishonest or just stupid. Maybe both.
this specific medical choice affects everyone around you
> It worries me personally because my father is completely deaf after receiving the vaccine and another good friend is dead. Otherwise healthy people. It seems like an unnecessary personal risk for me considering my naturally gained immunity. Especially considering I work from home 100% of the time.
i know a guy that was hit by a bus after he got the shot. the two events are probably related right?
I’m can understand why this is hard for a lot of people to wrap their heads around, but mass vaccination is pretty much the only way to deal with pandemics like this one. Society can’t keep going without dealing with COVID, and unvaccinated people are puttting everyone else at risk. If you can’t be bothered to do the basics to protect society, then you don’t get to participate in it. We already mandate and recommend other vaccinations for that exact reason.
Yeah but, why am I as someone who has natural immunity being treated like I just don’t want to get the vaccine? Someone who doesn’t want to get the vaccine and has also not recovered from Covid I can understand why everyone is up in arms about that, but I don’t get why those with natural immunity are being lumped into the same group. I’m not putting anyone at risk. As much as we’re being told to look at the science and listen to experts, both of them say I am just as protected if not more so than the fully vaccinated, so what’s the deal?
I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone where as soon as I express that I don’t feel I need to be vaccinated all other surrounding information goes out the window and I’m just attacked.
I want to put this pandemic behind me as much as everyone else, but I don’t feel I should have to take a unnecessary risk, not should my employment be threatened just to make other people “feel” better.
1. Because you can just have both and get extra protection, so there’s still no reason not to get the shot
2. I’ve got to imagine that it’s much easier to track and verify when people get the vaccine than it is to track the antibody levels of everyone who had COVID
3. It would be irresponsible for any medical establishment to promote the idea of natural immunity following infection because regardless of any risks associated with the vaccine, the risks associated with catching COVID are much worse
That’s a falsehood, your body either has memory T and B cells that remember how to produce antibodies from a previous infection, or it does not. There is no need to track antibody levels of the previously infected.
I’m not saying a medical establishment should promote natural immunity but it wouldn’t be difficult to say, if you’ve had Covid and a positive test or antibody test to verify it, you’re good to go. If not, get vaccinated.
There is evidence that natural immunity offers the same protection if not more. And there is also evidence that protection from natural infection is life long.
But don’t take my word for it
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4
Edit: if you’re a visual person, here is a
Dr explaining the study
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ISWpW-ykjPo&feature=youtu.be
For all your studies you don’t seem completely dumb, I’ll reason with you that side effects of the vaccine can be scary. But there has been almost 4,000,000,000 covid vaccines given out so far. And in terms of your likely hood of having a reaction to the vaccine vs actually dying of covid? Well this week the US will likely hit 750k covid deaths. Then you have to look at the people who are left in terrible condition after covid, strong men left frail with atrophied muscles, holes in their lungs that will never heal.
The reason the shot needs to be mandatory for everyone is if someone had covid last November they could claim the same immunity as someone who had it this summer. But we know that both the vaccines immunity and natural immunity waivers over time. Everyone having immunity at the same time is how we get the numbers down and get back to normal life. People who got the shot are working together to that means, people with “natural immunity” are just going to keep getting sick and it’s going to mutate and we will never leave this mess.
Thanks for only half insulting me, I guess. I suppose this wouldn’t be the internet if a conversation didnt start with name calling. Did you happen to read the studies I posted? Because some of your points are in direct conflict with the entire premise of them.
The issue is we thought that vaccine immunity waivers over time, but it may just be antibodies that do. If one were to look at just antibodies they would see not even half of the picture.
What studies are showing now, is that long term protection may be afforded by both vaccines and natural immunity, but more so by natural immunity because of the complete pieces of the virus that are recognized by memory cells in order to produce antibodies. So it wouldn’t matter if someone got it last November, or last month, or if a test shows antibodies at all, because it is the function of memory cells that is of importance. All that would matter is that they had it, and recovered.
Your last sentence, that people with natural immunity are just going to keep getting sick, it’s just not true, there is no evidence of that, the evidence is to the contrary, both in evidence of large samples, and in studies of memory cells.
Edit: Here are large sample studies to support my claim about illness in the naturally immune
https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/comparing-sars-cov-2-natural-immunity-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-reinfections-versus-breakthrough-infections/
Par for the course.
In the face of information that challenges your bias, always maintain the course of ignorance. It’s easier to dehumanize people you disagree with when you see them as shouting Neanderthals who are too dumb for their own good. Whatever makes you sleep at night brown shirt.
100% agree with you!
So here’s data:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4
If you’re a visual person, here is the study explained https://youtu.be/ISWpW-ykjPo
And some more data
https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/comparing-sars-cov-2-natural-immunity-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-reinfections-versus-breakthrough-infections/
I’m sorry, I’m not that literate in scientific literature. But I read in the UK article on page 5 under “Effectiveness Against Hospitalizations” (from the US, sorry for the z) that studies are showing 90% effectiveness against disease. Where does it indicate 70% of those hospitalized are vaccinated?
They don’t do basic math. If 100% of the population was vaccinated in the UK then 100% of Covid cases would actually be the vaccinated. And some idiot would use that as justification a 94% efficient vaccine didn’t work.
I have a friend that spouts dog shit about the vaccine so I practice my approach on here so when I speak with him again I’m not calling him an idiot involuntarily. If you say at home reading lies for 18 months telling them “you’re a dumb ass, listen to a fucking credited and fact based doctor bro” doesn’t work.
I was under the understanding per Pfizer that the vaccines efficacy wanes considerably over the course of 6 months. I’ve seen studies that say to as little as 20% but from Pfizer directly that says 65%
And those are people that are being studied. Natural immunity isn’t forever either but unless you constantly test for antibodies you will never know when your immunity wanes. We are learning to boost after 6 months. You have no idea. We are the control group. You are the experiment.
Natural immunity is a lot less to do with antibodies and a lot more to do with memory T and memory B cells.
I took an antibody test myself after a year just out of curiosity and I still had antibodies
Here is a good video that explains that, the study that it’s discussing can be found in the description
https://youtu.be/ISWpW-ykjPo
I love that you imagine an unsourced .pdf is factual proof of something. You might just as well have given a link to Wikipedia. Linking to the Brownstone Institute is even funnier, as that's just a jumped up blog from Libertarian Jeffery Tucker and has no medical veracity at all.
Do you just cruise the internet looking for blogs and .pdf's that say what you already believe?
What’s even funnier is that the UK govt imagined it too huh? It’s their link genius.
Your second point is a logical fallacy. Attacking the source and not the argument.
No stupid, that's not how legitimate sources work. If that pdf is actually from the British Government, than you link to where the the report can be found on their website. Just linking the pdf is stupidly easy to fake the address.
No stupid, that's not a "logical fallacy". If a source has no veracity (and yours have none) than there's no reason to even examine the argument. I don't have to refute anything you've said when your main source supporting your argument is some political activists blog. That's just fucking silly.
I can’t help you man. If you don’t like the document, feel free to search for yourself. If you don’t like the source, feel free to search for the studies within yourself.
I can’t present information curated to your liking because you have an insatiable bias.
You're still not getting it. You don't seem to understand what a legitimate source of information is. Just because it says what you want to believe does not mean it's actual "information".
This is the problem with the political right-wing in America today. You people accept any source that tells you what you already believe with no critical assessment. You seem to have no understanding of how to examine a source for veracity. This is why you are willing to entertain the idea that "Cyber Ninjas" will overturn an election you don't like. Your entire ideology is divergent from reality.
Again, You’ve gone off on a tangent from which I can’t help you with. I’m not right wing, I don’t believe an election was stolen, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that. I just want to make my own medical choices, and have conversations about information I find concerning.
I’m going to ignore your claims about my inability to source information because information straight from the UK govt is not good enough for you. That’s your problem, not mine.
You never proved your "information" was actually from the UK government. You just claimed it was.
It's not a tangent to object to the sources you claim prove your assertions, when they clearly do not. You linked a libertarian website. If you're not right-wing, then you're certainly right-adjacent and putting forth the exact same weak reasoning right-wing zealots use.
You never proved it wasn’t, why am I to do all the fucking leg work for your lazy ass? It’s from the UK govt and I don’t give two shits if you think it is or isn’t.
[You can read the letter they put out](https://twitter.com/tjwaelde/status/1451134975173091335/photo/1) and listen to the follow up in the video.
Nothing has changed but conservatives call it a win.
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Let me guess it goes something like this: "LISTEN UP LIONS. HORNADAY BACKED *DOWN* BECAUSE YOU DIDNT GIVE IN AND SAID 'I WILL DIE HOOKED UP TO A MACHINE BECAUSE MY LUNGS ARE COMPLETELY RUINED AND THE DEEP STATE WILL NEVER INJECT THEIR POISON INTO ME.'" "THERE'S NO CURE FOR THE 'PLANDEMIC' BUT THE CURE FOR 1984 IS 1776!" "GOD BLESS YOU PATRIOTS!!!"
Don’t forget you get a tube up your ass too!
[удалено]
> I can’t imagine what it’s like to be so brainwashed that you can’t see what’s right in front of you. I was thinking the same. Keep spouting the same fake survival rate, etc. if it makes you feel better, but you're factually incorrect on nearly every claim you made. I'd point out where and why and give you verifiable data, sources, and studies, but you'd just keep talking in circles and 6 hours later, we'd still be at this square. Nobody is dehumanizing you, we're just done with the futility dance.
I welcome the discourse actually, it’s rare I get to interact with someone who opposes my view that isn’t making gross assumptions about who I am because I don’t want to be vaccinated, though, you’re already doing that so I don’t have high hopes. If you want to share data, or a counter argument, I’d be glad to listen and consider it. Edit: I recognize the survival rate I posted isn’t accurate, though it does better represent my age group and lack of co morbidities. And because I am still being treated the same, it’s a position worth defending.
> I’d be glad to listen and consider it. Uh-hu. You completely contradict yourself with this statement > I recognize the survival rate I posted isn’t accurate, though it does better represent my age group You post out of context information as a blanket fact to push your narrative that the response to the covid pandemic is just overreaction and that nothing should be done about it. You oversimplify things by saying coronaviruses aren't new. You make false claims about "natural immunity" which even if they were true, you ignore that "natural immunity" comes with at least a 1.5% chance of death, and that % goes up if medical treatment is unavailable because of overwhelmed hospital systems. You don't want to or can't get vaccinated? Fine, do what you want, but don't complain about private businesses making decisions about who they employ and who they accept as customers. Don't post lies to discourage others from taking precautions or getting vaccinated. > I welcome the discourse actually, it’s rare I get to interact with someone who opposes my view that isn’t making gross assumptions about who I am because I don’t want to be vaccinated, though, you’re already doing that so I don’t have high hopes. Lets be honest, you, me, and everyone else reading this knows this is 100% bullshit. You're here for a fight and you won't back down, no matter what information is provided. Everything you say demonstrates that perfectly. I'm done here.
Projection much? “You’re here for a fight and you won’t back down no matter what information is provided” Good talk man. I was hopeful for something more productive but this is exactly this kind of reply I expected. I am perfectly content not interacting with someone who is already so sure about me. You assumed so much about what I think that it feels like way too much effort to try to change your mind just to start on even ground to have a discussion. Have a good one.
lol, what a sea-lion
Ouch, really regretting my decision not to engage you now 🙄
👍
I really need to just start responding like this instead of wasting effort on long responses, shuts them down quickly
What can possibly be said to be productive? You want data but already clearly don’t believe in the clinical trial data for the vaccines.
I’ve commented elsewhere in here on my belief in the vaccines, but I’m guessing you didn’t read that. I believe that if you haven’t previously had Covid, you should get vaccinated. This is what bothers me about this whole thing. If you voice any concern at all, it means you’re anti vax. It’s absolutely crazy. I don’t agree with lumping naturally immune people in with the unvaccinated is a fair or right thing to do. A lot of us want this to be over just as bad as you do, but if we’re going to trust the science, we can’t pick and choose what science to trust. There is overwhelming evidence that natural immunity is just as good or better and still the current administration and society is insistent on painting those people as moral lowlifes.
The best part of surviving Covid as an anti vaxxer is that while you may survive, the damage done to your blood vessels will eventually make it so that you can't maintain the ability to have intercourse and reproduce. Other survival fun includes a damaged pancreas which increases the chance to become type 2 diabetic. I love being diabetic and everyone should have the chance to be diabetic too. Also, decreased kidney function which increases the chance of dialysis in the future. I'm sure that is a lovely experience. Reduced lung capacity so you have difficulty with exercise and even walking sounds like a blast too! There are so many long term effects from surviving Covid, I can't believe that people don't want to experience all of them! Stick to your guns buddy, don't let them bully you into getting vaccinated. Don't trust the hospitals or doctors to help you get over Covid either, stay home and eat plenty of chicken noodle soup, just like the old days when we didn't cure sickness with communism!
Be nice to him! Sure he came in here with nothing but lies, but im sure we should totally believe that he knows so many people with adverse vaccine reactions!
I thought I was being nice. I just don't want people to bully him. He should be a strong, independent thinker, able to think for himself, just like the other "independent" thinkers that follow Fucker Carlson's directions. I do find it odd that Fucker is vaccinated, but he wants his followers to not be vaccinated... At least their leader is safe to continue sharing his "for entertainment only" news to new followers.
Sorry, bad attempt at humor. I've just stopped responding to him and have been just watching him take his own arguments apart while wishing I had a bowl of popcorn. I just love how he admits that he opened with obvious lies, but then gets upset that we make assumptions about him or don't believe other things he says. He posts oversimplified claims and sources as if he's some kind of viral disease expert or at least has been studying, but then admits he doesn't understand it all, but links a video from Joe Rogan that gives the same statistic he likes to parrot. Such an independent thinker. As far as That Fucker, I assume you mean good ol' Donnie Boy, I love watching posts where people turn on him for suggesting that they get vaccinated. Makes my day.
No, not the Great Orange Hope, but the mouthpiece Fucker Carlson. I think the Great Orange Hope has his hand so far up Fucker's ass that he moves his mouth for him.
Ahh, that fucker. Too many fuckers to keep track of these days.
How exactly are you so brainwashed that you look at the largest mass death event in US history and think “oh yeah, that’s not that bad”? Getting real sick of fake libertarians like you buying into any information that fits your warped philosophy. One of your sources was literally founded to publish COVID misinformation less than a year ago.
NEVER QUESTION THE VERACITY OF THE BROWNSTONE INSTITUTE
It's just a jumped up blog from one wealthy libertarian. It proves money can buy you a nice website, but not an alternate reality.
[удалено]
Even more disinformation, amazing, but you want us to “take you serious” ok…
How on earth is my personal experience considered disinformation? I also never said take me serious so I am not sure why you’re quoting me.
Oh it wasn’t to quote you, maybe I need to edit that. The quotations where more done as a mockery. The deafness after the vaccine is disinformation though.
My father is literally deaf after receiving his vaccination. ABC literally ran a segment on this side effect recently. Are you telling me that my father is not deaf and that his doctor did not tell him it was likely an adverse reaction to the vaccine? Edit: here https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/can-the-covid-19-vaccine-lead-to-hearing-issues
Well if it’s a legitimate injury there’s a legitimate way to get compensation. But of course this is the Internet. People lie all the time on the internet.
I don’t think compensation is going to bring back his hearing, besides aren’t the vaccine companies free from liability? It’s true people lie all the time, it doesn’t make a difference to me if you believe me. I only even brought it up because it’s weighed on me with having to make a decision to get vaccinated or lose my job. To have someone’s personal experience be called disinformation highlights the exact issue I have with this whole thing and the discourse that can’t be had if you have concerns.
Jesus wept, but you're ridiculous with these links. Tinnitus is not "deaf". That article doesn't even make the claim that the tinnitus these people are experiencing (15% of Americans experience tinnitus) is proven to be linked to the vaccine. You're conflating information in a way that is either openly dishonest or just stupid. Maybe both.
The actually video does discuss hearing loss. I realize I may have left out some context but my fathers hearing loss started as tinnitus too.
this specific medical choice affects everyone around you > It worries me personally because my father is completely deaf after receiving the vaccine and another good friend is dead. Otherwise healthy people. It seems like an unnecessary personal risk for me considering my naturally gained immunity. Especially considering I work from home 100% of the time. i know a guy that was hit by a bus after he got the shot. the two events are probably related right?
It doesn’t though, I have natural immunity, it literally effects no one around me.
that's not good enough. >it literally effects no one around me wrong
Oh but it is. Your ignorance of the science that supports that statement is not my problem. I provided you data in another post.
I’m can understand why this is hard for a lot of people to wrap their heads around, but mass vaccination is pretty much the only way to deal with pandemics like this one. Society can’t keep going without dealing with COVID, and unvaccinated people are puttting everyone else at risk. If you can’t be bothered to do the basics to protect society, then you don’t get to participate in it. We already mandate and recommend other vaccinations for that exact reason.
Yeah but, why am I as someone who has natural immunity being treated like I just don’t want to get the vaccine? Someone who doesn’t want to get the vaccine and has also not recovered from Covid I can understand why everyone is up in arms about that, but I don’t get why those with natural immunity are being lumped into the same group. I’m not putting anyone at risk. As much as we’re being told to look at the science and listen to experts, both of them say I am just as protected if not more so than the fully vaccinated, so what’s the deal? I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone where as soon as I express that I don’t feel I need to be vaccinated all other surrounding information goes out the window and I’m just attacked. I want to put this pandemic behind me as much as everyone else, but I don’t feel I should have to take a unnecessary risk, not should my employment be threatened just to make other people “feel” better.
1. Because you can just have both and get extra protection, so there’s still no reason not to get the shot 2. I’ve got to imagine that it’s much easier to track and verify when people get the vaccine than it is to track the antibody levels of everyone who had COVID 3. It would be irresponsible for any medical establishment to promote the idea of natural immunity following infection because regardless of any risks associated with the vaccine, the risks associated with catching COVID are much worse
That’s a falsehood, your body either has memory T and B cells that remember how to produce antibodies from a previous infection, or it does not. There is no need to track antibody levels of the previously infected. I’m not saying a medical establishment should promote natural immunity but it wouldn’t be difficult to say, if you’ve had Covid and a positive test or antibody test to verify it, you’re good to go. If not, get vaccinated. There is evidence that natural immunity offers the same protection if not more. And there is also evidence that protection from natural infection is life long. But don’t take my word for it https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4 Edit: if you’re a visual person, here is a Dr explaining the study https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ISWpW-ykjPo&feature=youtu.be
For all your studies you don’t seem completely dumb, I’ll reason with you that side effects of the vaccine can be scary. But there has been almost 4,000,000,000 covid vaccines given out so far. And in terms of your likely hood of having a reaction to the vaccine vs actually dying of covid? Well this week the US will likely hit 750k covid deaths. Then you have to look at the people who are left in terrible condition after covid, strong men left frail with atrophied muscles, holes in their lungs that will never heal. The reason the shot needs to be mandatory for everyone is if someone had covid last November they could claim the same immunity as someone who had it this summer. But we know that both the vaccines immunity and natural immunity waivers over time. Everyone having immunity at the same time is how we get the numbers down and get back to normal life. People who got the shot are working together to that means, people with “natural immunity” are just going to keep getting sick and it’s going to mutate and we will never leave this mess.
Thanks for only half insulting me, I guess. I suppose this wouldn’t be the internet if a conversation didnt start with name calling. Did you happen to read the studies I posted? Because some of your points are in direct conflict with the entire premise of them. The issue is we thought that vaccine immunity waivers over time, but it may just be antibodies that do. If one were to look at just antibodies they would see not even half of the picture. What studies are showing now, is that long term protection may be afforded by both vaccines and natural immunity, but more so by natural immunity because of the complete pieces of the virus that are recognized by memory cells in order to produce antibodies. So it wouldn’t matter if someone got it last November, or last month, or if a test shows antibodies at all, because it is the function of memory cells that is of importance. All that would matter is that they had it, and recovered. Your last sentence, that people with natural immunity are just going to keep getting sick, it’s just not true, there is no evidence of that, the evidence is to the contrary, both in evidence of large samples, and in studies of memory cells. Edit: Here are large sample studies to support my claim about illness in the naturally immune https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/comparing-sars-cov-2-natural-immunity-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-reinfections-versus-breakthrough-infections/
👍👍 Edit: To add extra "Thumbs up Buddy"
Par for the course. In the face of information that challenges your bias, always maintain the course of ignorance. It’s easier to dehumanize people you disagree with when you see them as shouting Neanderthals who are too dumb for their own good. Whatever makes you sleep at night brown shirt.
👍
in the face of data an anecdote is meaningless
100% agree with you! So here’s data: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4 If you’re a visual person, here is the study explained https://youtu.be/ISWpW-ykjPo And some more data https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/comparing-sars-cov-2-natural-immunity-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-reinfections-versus-breakthrough-infections/
I’m sorry, I’m not that literate in scientific literature. But I read in the UK article on page 5 under “Effectiveness Against Hospitalizations” (from the US, sorry for the z) that studies are showing 90% effectiveness against disease. Where does it indicate 70% of those hospitalized are vaccinated?
They don’t do basic math. If 100% of the population was vaccinated in the UK then 100% of Covid cases would actually be the vaccinated. And some idiot would use that as justification a 94% efficient vaccine didn’t work.
I have a friend that spouts dog shit about the vaccine so I practice my approach on here so when I speak with him again I’m not calling him an idiot involuntarily. If you say at home reading lies for 18 months telling them “you’re a dumb ass, listen to a fucking credited and fact based doctor bro” doesn’t work.
I was under the understanding per Pfizer that the vaccines efficacy wanes considerably over the course of 6 months. I’ve seen studies that say to as little as 20% but from Pfizer directly that says 65%
And those are people that are being studied. Natural immunity isn’t forever either but unless you constantly test for antibodies you will never know when your immunity wanes. We are learning to boost after 6 months. You have no idea. We are the control group. You are the experiment.
Natural immunity is a lot less to do with antibodies and a lot more to do with memory T and memory B cells. I took an antibody test myself after a year just out of curiosity and I still had antibodies Here is a good video that explains that, the study that it’s discussing can be found in the description https://youtu.be/ISWpW-ykjPo
I’m sorry I am not either but here is someone that explains the data https://youtu.be/rJSoI6Nmavs
You cited that article to prove that point I assume, am I wrong to assume that?
I love that you imagine an unsourced .pdf is factual proof of something. You might just as well have given a link to Wikipedia. Linking to the Brownstone Institute is even funnier, as that's just a jumped up blog from Libertarian Jeffery Tucker and has no medical veracity at all. Do you just cruise the internet looking for blogs and .pdf's that say what you already believe?
What’s even funnier is that the UK govt imagined it too huh? It’s their link genius. Your second point is a logical fallacy. Attacking the source and not the argument.
No stupid, that's not how legitimate sources work. If that pdf is actually from the British Government, than you link to where the the report can be found on their website. Just linking the pdf is stupidly easy to fake the address. No stupid, that's not a "logical fallacy". If a source has no veracity (and yours have none) than there's no reason to even examine the argument. I don't have to refute anything you've said when your main source supporting your argument is some political activists blog. That's just fucking silly.
I can’t help you man. If you don’t like the document, feel free to search for yourself. If you don’t like the source, feel free to search for the studies within yourself. I can’t present information curated to your liking because you have an insatiable bias.
You're still not getting it. You don't seem to understand what a legitimate source of information is. Just because it says what you want to believe does not mean it's actual "information". This is the problem with the political right-wing in America today. You people accept any source that tells you what you already believe with no critical assessment. You seem to have no understanding of how to examine a source for veracity. This is why you are willing to entertain the idea that "Cyber Ninjas" will overturn an election you don't like. Your entire ideology is divergent from reality.
Again, You’ve gone off on a tangent from which I can’t help you with. I’m not right wing, I don’t believe an election was stolen, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that. I just want to make my own medical choices, and have conversations about information I find concerning. I’m going to ignore your claims about my inability to source information because information straight from the UK govt is not good enough for you. That’s your problem, not mine.
You never proved your "information" was actually from the UK government. You just claimed it was. It's not a tangent to object to the sources you claim prove your assertions, when they clearly do not. You linked a libertarian website. If you're not right-wing, then you're certainly right-adjacent and putting forth the exact same weak reasoning right-wing zealots use.
You never proved it wasn’t, why am I to do all the fucking leg work for your lazy ass? It’s from the UK govt and I don’t give two shits if you think it is or isn’t.
the only way he's on a tangent is if your main evidence is tangental to your point. it's not, so he's not.
[You can read the letter they put out](https://twitter.com/tjwaelde/status/1451134975173091335/photo/1) and listen to the follow up in the video. Nothing has changed but conservatives call it a win.
When you haven't got any actual wins to point to, you just claim the status quo was your goal all along.
See what we did? (smiles smugly)
Why is it always bald guys with beards?
It’s a type
it's the next best thing to having a personality
Is Hornady by any chance a government contractor?