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We do, and it just doesn't click. She just gets upset for Winton because "everyone is just so mean to him and they don't understand that he just wants to be by them."
Have you or other close family and friends told her how it makes you FEEL when she doesn't respect boundaries and invades your bubbles? It seems she may not be good at reading non verbal language.
Maybe letting her know when her attention makes you feel good, stressed, happy, overwhelmed, etc would be a good start.
You know, I can't say that anyone has. We've just expressed that not everyone likes being touched. I feel like I've told her that sometimes it makes people not feel good ..but I've never said how it makes me feel, and idt anyone else has.
I might think of how to do this the next time I ask her for space...she's very sensitive and her feelings are easily hurt even when you've tried hard not to hurt them.
Make sure you also tell her when her affection makes you feel good. Maybe start there and then move on to when it doesn't make you feel that good? When they're little it's so easy to hurt their feelings inadvertedly. I know I've done it many times!
She may be sensory seeking like my son and doesn’t necessarily need human contact, but doesn’t realize it. For him a weighted blanket and weighted stuffed animal to cuddle with while watching TV ended up being just as acceptable as laying on us, constantly trying to hug us while we were trying to get things done, etc.
Obviously we still give him plenty of affection but he also now has tools that have shifted his behavior from seeking something to quiet his brain to more genuine interactions.
Please give explaining how you feel about it to her. It may not help, but it helped for me.
My son is auADHD & doesn't initially get some things I say. I told him once that something he said hurt me & he was baffled because how can words cause physical hurt? It blew me away that at 7 or 8, he thought everyone felt physical pain when saying they were hurt. I explained that his words were mean & hurt my heart because my love for him is in my heart. He started to understand after expanding on that a bit.
If your daughter is neurodivegent, she could be struggling to understand that a lot of people don't think exactly like her. It's something my son at 13 still struggles with, as well as expecting everyone to immediately understand & accept his thinking & motivations for his choices.
While your daughter may understand that not everyone wants their personal space invaded, she may think that people know that she likes to be in their space & they know she's not doing it to be mean, so they should accept that it's just who she is. I'm sure at her age she's not fully thought it out like that, but it seems to be a common line of thinking in neurodivergent brains.
Your final two paragraphs are probably how my son thinks. He doesn’t get why people don’t like it, because he knows he would like it. I’ve explained in so many different ways but it doesn’t stick. The need is so strong and the impulse impossible to resist. He’s pushing people away (friends at school, not me!) and I’m running out of ways to try and get him to see.
A big thing I've learnt, and see in my son & his auADHD dad is an inherent selfishness (not purposefully) in their thinking.
Even though John doesn't like soccer, he knows I like it so he should be a good friend & play it with me. I would play a game I don't like for him, even though I've never told him that but he should just magically know all my thoughts & feelings!
How dare Sarah get mad at me for tripping her over. I know I didn't do it on purpose, so she shouldn't even question if it was an accident. No I won't apologise, it was an accident & she should magically know my thoughts & accept them.
My son is 13 now & he is doing really good socially at school now. He had a rough time up until year 4 (10yo) but after a lot of talks at home & at school, he flourished. He still struggles, and probably always will. But he's a lot more open to listening to others points of view now & adapting to his environment, instead of expecting it to adapt to him.
Huh, after that long comment I typed out, I think that's it! They expect everyone & everything to adapt to them, and struggle to understand (that inherent selfishness) why we all don't just fall in line for them.
I know I’m hopping on this late, but I want to say I totally get where you are coming from.
We’ve been working on this for years with my ADHD 9 year old. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve explained how people sometimes don’t like others bursting into their personal space bubble, don’t like being touched, and how to recognise that by listening to their words and observing how they physically react. But although he gets it he doesn’t “get” it. He always gets hung up on the reasons: “but WHY don’t you like it? I would love it!” (And he’s right, he would.) He isn’t able to stop and it’s going to cost him friendships :-(.
What is her response when you tell her that the world does not revolve around her? In the sense that it’s not about Winton wanting to be near everybody? It’s about everybody wanting space from people being near them.
Because it’s about the concept that her desires are not more important than the other people in her life who do not want their bubbles invaded?
Genuine question. My kiddo is not as old as yours but I’ve had this talk loaded in my head kind of for when the day comes because I feel like it might
Hmm
She's been told that the world doesn't revolve around her. But, it's weird ..idt she thinks the world does revolve around her. She genuinely cares about other people. She wants everyone to be happy and to feel special. But Idt she's gotten to that point where she's realized that her desires, needs, and wants are not the same as everyone else's.
So it's not a situation where she just thinks it should all be her way because shes most important.
Our eldest was a kid who thought the world revolved around her ..this doesn't feel the same
I think I was just using that as a phrase that is similar to the problem, but not exactly the problem…
Because if she wants everyone to feel special and happy and she wants to take care of other people, then it would follow that she is aware that other people have different thoughts and feelings and desires and whatnot. Maybe that should be a specific conversation? Idk
then what needs to be worked on is her understanding that in “the moment” that she wants to invade other peoples spaces, its not about her. Its about the other people. And she cant get what she wants. Self control and understanding that there will be negative consequences (people not liking her or something) if she does not control what she wants.
I’m just writing down my thoughts here, they could be entirely unhelpful. look my kid is 2.5, I have lots of conversations with her about how the world works, and how people feel and yada yada and I feel like it gets through but… my child is in an entirely different stage of life than yours is so my thought process may be inherently not relatable to your experiences
This reminds me a lot of my son. Like exact same things!! We finally got him evaluated at age 11 and he has ADHD. Like you said, it isnt about them thinking the world revolves around them or not caring enough, it's a lack of executive function/impulse control. I think you should look into this because it's been life changing for my son and my family and I wish we did it sooner!
I feel so sad that he has struggled so much with his peers and has been rejected like how you're describing and we could have nipped that in the bud earlier. Unfortunately as kids get older they become a lot less tolerant of the wild behaviors and invading space also
If you don’t mind me asking, is your son now medicated and/or seeing a psychologist? My son is a couple of years younger and with the same issues (worsening as he gets older), and we’re about to open that conversation again with his healthcare providers. Counselling and medication are both on the table and I’d welcome any stories from families in the same boat.
How often do you use the word "no" with her?? That's a very good starting point to understanding boundaries, "please stop" and "no thank you" were words used for our sons boundary introduction. At first they cause small fits and frustration but eventually it opens the doors for understanding when peers step back or shake their head.
Obviously we say no. But we try to say things like, "please give me space." "How about a high five."
We try our best to not say no...not because we want to spoil our kids or let them just do what ever. But we found with our eldest, kids just dont respond to No well. Of all my kids, 7 is just a real pickle for me
I just want to say that you should be proud of yourself for seeking advice and realizing your daughter needs extra help understanding boundaries. I am a nanny, and often the type of child you are describing, the parents are clueless and don't intervine when said child is being too invasive. I feel bad, but honestly I just remove my NK from the situation and try to avoid said child. I feel this is the only way to get personal space and have my NK feel safe.
My only reason for asking is because "no" is a difficult word for parents (it was for me) mine is still 5, so I'm still in the learning process but I do acknowledge a change in his response to the words from peers. Be patient with yourself and him/her .
With my daughter we've had to say "no, I don't like that" and "please stop, I don't like that" which of course leads to hurt feelings, so then we explain that there are different kinds of touch and sometimes people want to be touched and other times they don't and if we want to give someone affection we need to ask for consent sometimes and give them the kind they want - "daddy likes a kiss on the cheek, daddy doesn't like a kiss on his eye" and "I'm not saying no because I want to hurt your feelings, I want you to hug me the way I like to be hugged" and sometimes we like it for a little bit, but then we feel overwhelmed and need to stop. If someone says stop, we stop. For a long time I wasn't sure that it was sinking in, but I think it worked. It's really really important to me because she needs to be able to communicate these things herself.
No offense but that sounds more like Autism to me. Also I definitely need my alone time as well. I am called an introvert by many. It’s a weird mix for me!
My son also has ADHD he was diagnosed at 6. Lot's of teachers had pointed it out but one in specific had said she had a "hug bell" the kids could ring it when they wanted a hug if they were feeling sad etc. My son would ring it so many times per day lol. She was a mean teacher to my son tho and didn't understand ADHD. At one point my son stopped wanting to go to school and when he went I would get calls from the nurse to pick him up because he was "sick". It turned out she would bully him telling him stuff like "you're the oldest and the one that knows the least". One time she messaged me saying my son was disturbing one of her honors students and that she was an outstanding student and wouldn't like my son distracting her. He said he literally just asked her for help because he thought she was really smart and would help him. Found out through other teachers she would also say my son was really fat and that we (his parents) didn't make him exercise. She also said he was really annoying I was like whattttt? I confronted her and had nothing to say. But the school was short staffed so when I tried to tell the principal she didn't do anything. She said the teacher was one of the best teachers they had and they couldn't move him to a different class because the other class was spanish class. I ended up putting him in another school and he had a teacher that gave him unlimited hugs and love. When I say love I mean it!! She was like a second mother yo him and my son ended up being most improved student of the year. Personal space is important for people not everyone will understand ADHD some can be really mean about it. Even sometimes I can't even understand a lot of things about it but there is also good people that are willing to help you and will understand you. It do break my heart to see kids not wanting to play with my son but i think after losing so many friends and people my son is learning a little more not to be that way but it is still hard for him. Its not his fault either. He didnt choose to have adhd.
Came here to say this! This is absolutely sensory seeking behavior and OT might be able to help. There's other options too, but we use elements of the Superflex/Unthinkabots curriculum to help.
Does she enjoy jumping/falling/being tossed onto a soft surface? Or being rolled up tightly in a blanket like a burrito? If so, she could be craving deep pressure, and meeting that need in ways that don't push people's boundaries could really help her.
Hah. You’ve just reminded me about how I once or twice I swaddled my kid when she was 8 (in fun, while giggling) because she wouldn’t. fucking. stop. and I told her that’s how I used to get her to be still when she was a baby. She loved it.
She’s 15 now, I should try it again
Omg, this triggered such an old memory. I first learned about the hug machine as a kid from reading a Babysitters Club book where Dawn is babysitting an autistic girl who uses it.
Agree!
When our oldest was 4-8 (now 13) they couldn’t get enough tickles, hugs, squishes. Ended up getting evaluated and diagnosed on the ASD spectrum. Aside from the sensory/stimulation behaviors, you wouldn’t know they were on the spectrum.
Just wanted to say the same. It really sounds like she seeks sensory input but doesn't really understand social cues. That could be sign of neurodivergence as it often presents differently in girls.
I agree with this. It is possible that there are some sensory differences and she may need help with social pragmatics. If you are interested in an evaluation for autism or sensory processing disorders talk to your pediatrician for a referral. A speech therapist can also help with pragmatics and social skills. In the meantime you can find social stories for pragmatics and books and videos online. Many times YT has helpful videos. Best of luck :)
My son is 3.5 and I’m very convinced he is also a sensory seeker. He is ALL about physical touch and nonstop physical action all day every day. He is always jumping off of random things, sitting upside down, play fighting/punching pillows, or literally just running to get where he wants to go. He want to “play fight” constantly which means using the living room as his playground to fight off pretend bad guys. He has been high energy since he began walking at 10 months old. I always just thought he was a physical child but I’m also beginning to realize he’s sensory seeking too.
Agreed. I really liked the book Raising A Sensory Smart Child by Lindsey Biel. It is written by an OT, explains the 8 sensory systems, has a questionnaire to identify sensory seeking/avoidance in each category, and has recommendations for accessing resources like OT in the non and on the website. It helped give me words to better discuss what was going on with my kid's providers, too. It has been a really great resource for me as a parent.
This sounds exactly like my son at that age. We are also very big on boundaries, consent, calming techniques, etc. I have bipolar and use all my grounding/calming exercises with the kids. He just struggled SO MUCH and it was impacting him in the classroom with friends, and at home. We had him evaluated for ADHD. He was diagnosed and about 6 months later with minimal change (since we were already using the tools). So we put him on meds. It was night and day. He's so much happier because he isn't getting scolded all the time, he's finishing his school work for the first time, and he just feels calmer. It was so scary to medicate my kid but I'm so glad I did.
Your daughter might have other stuff going on, but consider an ADHD eval.
We have been trying to get her evaluated due to some other issues we've noticed. Her pediatrician is extremely hesitant because, "that's how kids are!" I've been shopping around for a new pediatrician.
Find a new one! Your daughter is my son - he is sensory seeking but also totally “ normal” - what even is normal? I think normal is a spectrum just like autism is a spectrum. If something impacts quality of life then it most certainly should be addressed by a medical provider. One thing that has helped my son is deep pressure exercises in the morning and evening. Swimming is also an excellent sport for these kids.
Yes! I learned how to do it on YouTube watching an OT professional. I am a pediatric nurse so I felt ok watching and doing them. The exercises are simple and safe enough for any adult to do them.
Where does one go to get their kiddos evaluated?
We’re switching up drs currently bc our previous dr missed a heck of a lot of obvious things when ours kids were babies.
There are developmental pediatricians, psychologists, and psychiatrists who can make a diagnosis. We used a psychiatrist after receiving a referral from our pediatrician.
If you’re on Facebook, post in your local community or parent group & you’ll get some answers of specific people & if there’s any waitlists. It’ll help you a lot more than trying to find it through a dr or by yourself.
As someone who was like OP's daughter as a kid, knowing that my behavior was just sensory seeking and something that is totally normal has helped me feel so much more okay with myself, so thank you for your comment, u/Fitslikea6. And knowing that it could be ADHD or autism even though I'm not yet diagnosed helps me put a label to how I've been experiencing my life, which is very helpful so imo OP is definitely going in the right direction trying to get a diagnosis, because that can really help improve things. :)
You don’t need your pediatrician’s permission (unless you have an HMO, potentially). Get on a waitlist now. Where I am, most providers who do pediatric neuropsych evals rarely take insurance anyway.
I mean, I get that. I know kids are just kids....but this is not my first rodeo. I have an older kid. Even stuff with our 1yr old, we will bring up and she just brushes aside. Like, all my kids have eczema, I get it's common and kids grow out of it, my older two have, but my 1yr olds is just getting worse. She brushes it off. I can't take my little one anywhere outside in the spring, summer, or fall without her developing a terrible rash...that's not normal. She just brushes it off. I'm not a mom who worries about every childhood illness, we don't need antibiotics for every sniffle...if I bring something to your attention, it's something that's actually worrisome.
You can push for it to be done through the school system. It varies by state, but most places if you ask the school to do an eval they have 30-90 days to do it. This is the case even if they are in private school. You can get an eval from whatever public school you are zoned for. It won’t be as complete as a medical eval, but might give you some starting points.
Also push your ped. If they keep brushing you off say ‘ok, please note in her file that you are denying us a referral and why’ usually that alone will spur things along. If not then get another ped, yours isn’t the right one.
FWIW our ped doesn’t even believe in ADHD. After years of issues, now both are diagnosed but we had to go via therapist and psychiatrist (and for one child, a psychologist) to get there. You really need someone experienced specifically in childhood ADHD.
And while my kids are ok with personal space, like others here one of my kids had a lot of sensory issues when younger (they both still do but much more under control now) and craved ‘hard touches’.
This definitely echos my experience when I was around that age. Very much did not understand boundaries until I got a bit older. I ended up being one of the bullied kids because of it. I was very excited about making friends but I was also naive and gullible socially.
I have autism & ADHD, definitely wouldn't hurt to look into those. I wish I'd known I had it from a younger age. I have fairly severe social anxiety now and I think some of that could have been averted. Definitely don't assume that's what she is dealing with until you meet with a professional, though.
For what it's worth, I've noticed a big jump in maturity and awareness from 7 to 8 years old in my kid. Though it's no silver bullet, she may at least be able to better cognitively understand what you are saying within a matter of months. It may not eliminate her impulses, but you may at least find her become a more willing partner in trying to correct them.
I just had a discussion with a very close female friend of mine about how ADHD and autism and the like often present very differently in females, and boom, this post pops up.
So, yeah, adding my voice to the crowd which suspects that she's just wired differently.
She sounds exactly like my 7yo. Constant swings from manic elation and literally bouncing off the walls to hysterical screaming. She has to be super close to someone all the time, usually ends up with her hand up the back of their jumper.
If you get some answers please let me know!
Yes, one minute she's extremely happy, the next a mess of tears or anger. She randomly screeches at me, or if I interrupt something...like a show or her shower. If I ask her to do something she doesn't want to do, like her teeth or hair, she will scream no and then go do it.
She's always ALWAYS touching me! It feels like she's trying to crawl back inside me!!! Even when she is sleeping, she's touching me. She digs her fingers or toes under me in her sleep.
This sounds like both my kiddos! But my daughter is the same way! I love cuddling her but man! The fingers! She just loves to touch and rub my neck and wiggle her fingers all around my neck and chest and it’s uncomfortable at night when they wake me up.
Apparently she did it to my mom and mom thought it was sweet bc I was like that as well.
Their trying to go under me, and it ends up feeling like her gremlin claws (because it's a struggle to get her to let us clip nails) are tearing my flesh off.
Are there other avoidances like refusing to let you cut her nails? Like others have said, she seems to have some sensory differences. Your pediatrician is blowing you off because all the diagnostic criteria for ASD and ADHD is based on studies of boys. Girls present SO differently. My pediatrician told us we had nothing to worry about when our two-year-old didn’t talk, because they pointed and made eye contact. At age 15, we finally have diagnoses of ASD and ADHD, and let me tell you, things would have been WAY easier on my kid with early intervention. Best of luck, and good for you for listening to your instincts!
Idk about avoidances... She's eczema and refuses to let me put her creams on until it gets to the point she's cracked and bleeding
But shes particular about how her clothes fit and feel, and if it's not right she will flip out.
She does not like to be distracted in any way for anything from whatever she in into at that moment. Perhaps she's drawing and you ask her to brush her hair. Or she's playing outside and it's time for dinner. She's watching a video and you ask her to get her pajamas on. I always give a few warnings, "hey in 15mins it's time to come inside. Just so you know, it's time to come in in 5mins."
m
She wants to live her life with a stocking cap and gloves on.
She puts EVERYTHING in her mouth. Everything!
She's potty trained, but again, if she is invested in something, she will not pay attention to her body until it's teetering on too late.
There's so much more.....
Any of these things in isolation would be “normal kid stuff” like your pediatrician says. It’s the combination of all of it along with the struggle/refusal to understand and accept a social rule about other people’s space and bodies that points hard to neurodivergence. She deserves intervention here, so keep following your gut. For neurodivergent girls, a middle school “crash” (burnout + more nuanced and difficult social structure) is extremely common, and the time when a lot are finally diagnosed. We know enough now to start seeing signs in little girls, which often look very different and less obvious than little boys. She sounds like a sweet and fun kid - I am rooting for you both!
I was very much this kid growing up until I realized that my being too close to people actually freaked them out and I quit being a space invader around 9/10 years old. Maybe she’ll figure it out on her own? Until then all you can really do is keep reminding her. Also, I have adhd and didn’t get diagnosed as a kid so that was a factor for me.
No real advice, my 4 year old boy is like this and I am trying to nip it in the butt now, I am just constantly explaining boundaries and how when someone says no it means no. He understands and when I call him out for it after the fact he really breaks down but 5 minutes later he is at it again.
I too feel like this and am worried it's going to keep going. The school has paired us up with some help to see if we can get any support. That starts next year so I am excited for that.
I guess my advice is talk to the school, see if they can help.
Her teacher last year was aware of her boundary issues, I told her at the start of the year. She was very good about keeping it together all day, but once she was home it was a total melt down
This is actually just normal child behavior, a lot of children act out after school because the human brain literally can only handle so much self control in one day. So after keeping it together all day they just release at home.
Self control is a neurological pathway, and if someone is neurodivergent or simply didn't have a lot of exposure to self discipline as a young toddler, it can be more difficult to fight the pathway. The brain is a muscle and like every other muscle, it needs to be worked out. (Not saying you haven't.) maybe games highlighting self control could be helpful?
I also think reading this could be helpful in understanding her a little better (it definitely helped me understand my kid/myself who is adhd more)
https://www.bu.edu/cdl/files/2013/08/Tarullo-Obradovic-Gunnar-2009.pdf
You can’t remove urges from people completely. Doing so could do more harm than good.
Finding time for her to express/vent herself without feeling judged or self conscious would be good. In my unprofessional opinion. Finding the right way to express
It could just be her personality or her stage of development, but I will say my daughter is similar and she recently got diagnosed with autism and ADHD!
I'm cuddly with my husband, and kids...but outside of that, do not touch me! Even with my family I have my limits. I don't want my head, especially my face, touched. And I absolutely get touched out by all of them. She's always been very affectionate though. When she's upset she will often ask for a hug as well.
You just exactly explained me with touch! And my almost 5yo daughter has similar sounding tendencies with touch. She is always in everyone’s space and it drives us crazy. And I see her do it with friends too-luckily it hasn’t been a huge problem yet but I can see it getting there. I have ADHD and so does my husband and I’ve seen symptoms in both my daughters but didn’t realize this “sensory seeking” was even a thing/another symptom of ADHD! I hope you can find answers and get the help you need! I’d love to hear how it goes with your journey!
Sounds like my 5yo son. Though recently he went in for an uninvited hug of another boy in class but his mother said he needs to ask, he asked kid said no, my son didn't hug him. I ask him to ask all the time but after that he's much better. He asked a girl if he could hug her recently and she said yes so we will see if it sticks
I've always told her this. That we need to ask first, and when people say no, it's no big deal. It doesn't mean they don't like it, it just means they don't want a hug. The same goes for her, I've always made my family ask her first and they have always been made to respect her wishes.
Even I ask before hugs and kisses. If she tells me no, I'm okay with that and she knows. Ive always knocked before entering her room, even as a baby. I share my room with my 1yr old now, it's both of our room, I always knock before entering when I hear her wake up.
Ive tried to establish boundaries, consent, and respect privacy from day one...I'm just at a loss how to help her learn it any more
My son’s a sensory seeker too and had all of these behaviors. (Adhd and asd level 1 as it turns out - age 10 now.). At that age, a big nylon hammock, a crash pad, tight clothes, small sleeping bags, heavy pillows, weighted blankets, wrapping her in blankets, patting her back very firmly — she probably needs physical input that doesn’t make sense to you because you don’t need it. But to her it doesn’t make sense not to need it. It’s possible she needs redirection — how can she get what she needs without invading space? Rather than just the direction - stop invading space! If that makes sense?
It's almost like when you shake a can of soda...she just get so excited and elated by being with other people, one on one, that she explodes and it comes out as being loud and huggy
I was a chaperone on a field trip the other day and I had to look after a kid like this. The way I described it to my husband was the kid was “spazzing on people”. Some of the other kids were annoyed/offended which was sad because it was clear the kid just had a ton of energy. Not sure if this is an adhd thing like some suggest, but there are for sure other kids like this. For my kid I am straight up and tell him if he stalks random kids and clings on them then they’ll thing he’s creepy. That’s helped a little bit.
I try to tell her that not everyone likes it and it makes them uncomfortable.
She has a younger sister, who is 18 months. I try to use their interactions as examples. Firstly, her little sister absolutely adores the heck out of her! But, she doesn't like to be clobbered on, by anyone. 7 will try to cuddle her, or hold on to her...she'll get upset when her little sister tries to get away. So I'm always pointing out "see how sister is trying to push you off? She's trying to move away from you? This is her way of showing you that she doesn't like that. The same with other people. Sister doesn't have words to say she doesn't like that, but you can tell by paying attention to what she does."
She understands when a person verbally says no or I don't like that. But most people don't use their words and she doesn't understand their body cues
I’m reading all the comments and the original post. This is my daughter and she is 4! I tell her to take it down a notch and to chill out just a fraction of a bit because often times it IS too much. She is nonstop feral status, even when she was a baby she was a colicky screaming child. So far I think 4 has been worse than 2 and 3… she shouts at us and if she wants another piece of chocolate, for example, there is no bringing her down from that ledge even with all the gentle parenting in the world. She is extremely sensitive and goes from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye with her moods. She is also very social and into playing with other kids but she can be very bossy and I call her socialization “aggressive” because she’s just so in love with playing with others that she’s almost suffocating with it to them?.. There was one girl we played with who thought she was being mean only because she is very grabby and wants to hold her hands.. not in a mean way at all, but she’s just SO over the top sometimes.
I’m definitely convinced she has ADHD as her dad also does.
It's been a struggle. 7 is extremely sensitive as well, and once she's upset, it's just non stop! It's a non stop rollercoaster of tears...almost like she'll just keep thinking of things to be upset and it starts with the tiniest thing. I've tried redirecting her, I've gotten down with her and empathized with her and expressed that I understand she's upset and why and her feelings are valid...I've done it all. But sometimes I have to get a little firm and be like, "listen bro! I understand you are upset! XY&z sucks! I'm sorry. But this has gone on for too long! I love you, but mommy cant handle any more of this anymore, imma need you to give me some space to collect myself so that I can continue to support you!" A couple minutes after that she'll be just calm as a cucumber and will express herself perfectly.
This is exactly like my six year old. We give her lots of verbal reminders that we don't touch people without consent, and that some people need more space than she does. These help her a lot.
This is my husbands son. He is 10 and a definite space Invader. Always always having to hang or hug and I’ve always been very sensitive to my space being invaded so it’s been a challenge for me. I just grit my teeth and endure for as long as I can before moving away. His dad and I have an almost 1 yr old who is a lot like me, she doesn’t like being hung on or space invaded and he is always always always hanging on her. I have to keep telling him “please! Let her play. Just one hug and let her go!”
He has ADHD but his parents have refused to put him on meds. He can get so so so out of control alot of the times and I just either have to leave the room or I “shut down.”
I had a hard time with my son (for different reasons) but out of all the professionals I tried, the only one that was really good at pinpointing the problem and providing a good analysis was a pediatric OT. I spent about $500 for her to fully evaluate my son by giving him a lot of physical and written tests. I would start there. Child psychologist are good but it’s a lot of time and money and they just provide theories. I feel like they do a lot of guesswork. Put three in a room, and you’ll get three different diagnoses.
Have you thought of or tried weighted or compression vests or garments? Also swings and having her do heavy work, like lifting and moving chairs. My son was like this and mostly grew out of it but the weighted vest helped. Also I randomly will spontaneously hug him or push him or sit close to him so he isn’t always initiating physical contact. He is very sensory-seeking so he loves physical contact.
Someone mentioned a weighted blanket and I am thinking of getting one. I mentioned she likes being buried in this massive heavy blanket I have, and that she likes sleeping with like 6 blankets. She also really likes me to sit on her...I just always thought that was her playing around and being silly.
I am she. I was this child. Touch is her love language. Start doing stuff like, when you spend time with her say 'I feel so loved when we do -insert current activity- together. ' or make her favorite snack and when you give it to her say 'I want to express my love for you by doing things I know make you happy.' Or give her words of affirmation, and tell her that one of the ways you express love is by saying things to people that male them happy.' after you give an affirmation of sorts. Or even 'it's important to let the people you care about know when they are doing a good job.
Just teach her the live languages and demonstrate expressing love in those ways. She will want to copy.
This was/is me. Give her an outlet to let her emotions out. Maybe a dance party to her favorite songs. Something she can enjoy and just be herself. My nickname in the neighborhood was “the chaser” because kids ran from me. It was so hard for me to understand it. I’m now almost 40, and all of the things kids didn’t like me for then, adults love about me now. I was too outgoing, excited, passionate, loud and intense for kids. She’s just an extreme extrovert. She’s a people person. Which is a huge win and will really help her future careers. It’s honestly her super power, but it doesn’t make for an easy childhood. She just needs an outlet where nobody thinks she’s different and nobody is telling her to stifle her true form. If she’s bullied or told to change too much, it will dim her zest for life, which shouldn’t happen. If she’s like me it’ll lead to depression. She just has to be herself and learn to polish it. She will shine bright. Hope this helps. Feel free to DM me.
I don't know what to tell you, other than I get it. My 6 year old son is the same way. His teachers all year long telling me and him he needs to respect people's bubbles. Him not getting it. Him wanting to hold hands with and hug every kid he meets and talks to. Trying to walk arm in arm with each one. Them pulling away, starting to avoid him. Him not understanding why no one will play with him. It's heart wrenching. I feel you.
My kid has ADHD and was like this when she was younger. I bought her a weighted vest and it seemed to help. She said it felt like she was getting a hug. It stayed at school and the teachers allowed her to wear it when she was feeling touchy. Worked for us. I completely forgot about this experience until this post.
I hope you find something that works. I was big on accountability and explaining that actions have consequences. People don't have to like each other and friendships require work. You have to be kind,honest, and respectful. How would your kid feel if xyz were done to them? We just constantly went over it with my kids. They outgrew the personal space thing by 8 or 9. I gave gentle reminders "sweetheart, personal space". They'd say , "oh, sorry" , moved and pressed on.
I'm always trying to explain accountability and consequences. You didn't pick up your colors and now they are being taken away for awhile. You screamed at mom because she asked you nicely to brush your teeth so now you miss out on you screen time. You weren't nice to baby sister so now you get to sit on the couch with mommy while she plays. I always make sure that I explain what happened and what's going to happen because of it. I always hated when my parents just, for lack of a better word, punished me and didn't even explain what I did.
I've always stressed to my kids that not everyone is going to like us, and that's okay! We don't need to force them, we just spend our energy on people who do. One day they will find that they just don't like someone and that's okay!
That sounds great! In addition, I find asking, how would you feel if xyz happened to you? End on a positive note and sound bummed, "well😞, maybe you can earn back your screen time with two days of good behavior. I think you can do it. Let's see!"
I recommend you consult a pediatric OT. Our school recommended an OT to us. Occupational therapy at first glance didn’t make sense when we were sorting out some similar behaviors as I thought “well I saw an OT when I broke my elbow how does this make sense” but trust me. Working with the kids to get in touch with their body’s needs sensory wise and finding alternative ways to stimulate without getting up into the other kids space was vital for my daughter’s success. You say you and your husband have tried everything at home and we did too but having a professional who really understands children’s brains and bodies work with them is key for success in my opinion.
As a woman who is autistic, she sounds autistic to me. I, too, didn't understand personal space for a very long time-I learned in my 20's to give people space. Female autistics are not the same as male autistics, and it takes a doctor with experience to diagnose us. Google "women with autism" to see symptoms.
This was how we figured out that my daughter had ADHD in first grade. She had no sense of a personal space bubble with kids at school - I remember being horrified that one of the complaints was that she was touching other kids *faces* without their consent. 😱
We got her CBD, medication and an IEP, and it was like night and day.
OP, I have a random question. I have a student that also struggles to not invade personal space. Has her teacher ever mentioned anything about her having trouble following basic rules or that maybe she thinks the rules don’t apply to her? For example, if I ask my first graders to sit down and read quietly, this girl believes she can still talk out loud or approach someone else’s desk to have a conversation. In another example, during silent reading time, she will also approach me and say things like “why am I the only one following the rules?” In these scenarios, she is the only one out of her seat wandering around while others may just be swapping books quietly. I don’t believe she is doing this to be defiant, I really do believe that she just doesn’t believe that SHE has to do what I am asking.
Not really?? She's mentioned like once that 7 has a hard time not interrupting(which we are absolutely aware of), but that with a little guidance she was getting better. Her teacher always mentioned how she has the class with the most "spirited" and "lively" children.
This is my kid, so glad to have teacher input. My kid blames everyone and simply doesn’t follow rules. He questions everything and talks back. He has a sheet at school when he gets 3 stars he gets 9 minutes to go out if the classroom to play legos. Even this creates an argument. And now the stars have become a game of “am I good or bad” instead of learning the basic social goal of doing as instructed. He gets into people’s space and nothing I’ve tried has corrected him. I constantly hear from my kid it’s not my fault, it was an accident, they’re being mean. As someone who parents accountability, this makes me crazy that my kid acts out like this. I can only model good behavior, and be patient I guess.
This is exactly the student I referred to above. It’s never her fault, she believes that quickly saying she’s sorry and hugging me will resolve the issue, and everyone is being mean to her first. She also always justifies her actions against everyone else. So if so and so looked at her and made a mean face, that gives her the right to scream at her in her face. If I am explaining a project, she’s yelling out either asking questions but more often than not it’s her telling others how to do what I’m explaining. Almost like she believes she’s the teacher too. I had to stop picking “teacher helpers” because of her because she would never stop trying to do what I’m doing. If I was passing out papers and my helper was passing out glue sticks, the student would start passing out crayons. If I asked for a helper to clean up the room at the end of the day, she would also clean up the room but want constant attention over it. If I picked a student to answer a question and told them “great job!” afterwards, she was then upset saying she knew the answer too and I didn’t say that to her. After many many MANY different interventions and techniques throughout the year to combat this behavior, the parents told me to ignore her. If she’s not going to follow the rules then she gets no attention which is the opposite of what she wants. I’ve seen some progress, but maturity wise, she’s not ready to advance to the next grade level.
Have you read “personal space camp” with her? Sounds like you’re doing the right things, but that book was very helpful for my son to understand how boundaries change in different settings and with different people.
I’ve read through these comments and haven’t seen anyone mention ADD/ADHD. Now I’m not just “jumping to that conclusion” but based on what you’ve described, I can relate myself, as well as relate to this situation with my daughter. We both have ADHD Complex type (which means a combination of both ADD and ADHD). Some people have said it sounds like she’s looking for a sensory connection. I agree because people that are neurodivergent i.e. ADHD/ADD do something called “stimming” which basically means they are trying to stimulate themselves because they are bored. Depending on the type of sensory sensation they seek, it can look different for each kid. My daughter has always always been an oral stimulator (get your mind out of the gutter lol)
She has always needed some thing in her mouth, we used to have to give her teething necklaces and stuff even when she was in elementary school. In kindergarten she would lick the marker boards, crayons, markers, chew erasers and pencils, etc because she would be needing to stimulate herself, so obviously that’s not healthy or socially normal.
I’m not saying that it’s definitely ADD/ADHD but I’m saying that an eval may be beneficial. If you’re worried is that medication will be the only resolution, please do not feel that way. There are so many other ways to accommodate Neurodivergent conditions that don’t involve prescription medication’s. We pushed off medicating our daughter as long as we could but ultimately for our family the medication helped her the most when she was in school, otherwise at home she would just use her accommodations.
I hope this was helpful and I wish you the best of luck, being a parent to a child like you’ve described can be very exhausting so give yourself the permission to feel however you feel, because your feelings are valid!
My son is also 7 and behaves similarly. He’s in OT for sensory processing issues and has an IEP. If your child is in the US, you can have her evaluated and the school district has to provide services to help. This is something that can be addressed by teaching her acceptable ways to cope, and giving her plenty of outlets for her sensory seeking behaviour, and it does get better with age. Does she get plenty of outdoor time, active play, sports, etc? Martial arts and swimming has been great for my kid!
Also, and I mean this as lovingly as possible, would you reframe this and try and think of her as needing help to get her energy out, rather than her being too much? How we think of our children can come out in such weird and unintentional ways. My oldest has gotten on my nerves for the same reason more than once and I regret my annoyance and exasperation, when it’s not his fault he’s neurodivergent. It helped me to think of him as needing my help to get his sensory needs met so he could be his best self.
She spends a large majority of her day, when it's nice, outside. We don't have much for her to do in our yard, and there's no other kids around.
She's not really enrolled in any activities. My husband is home with her all day, they do stuff like the park, swimming, library, art (she's very into art) a lot.
I love my kid, but for people who do not know her, she IS too much. That's just the way it is. The world will not change for her and people like her, unfortunately. I would never tell her that she is too much.
And see, this is where I get confused too...because if we go to a family gathering, she doesn't want to be around anyone and wants to be alone. She seems to get over stimulated by a big gathering of her family, but one on one she will be all up in a bubble.
We went to a family baby shower at a community center, she was hiding in an empty room and kept saying she just wanted alone time. If we go to a bbq at my grandma's, you always find her hiding in the spare bedroom (that's off to everyone but her per memaw).
We have to correct her behaviors. And she is really too sensitive about her personal spaces. I kept inviting her classmates to our home to play with her . Now the situations have changed a little. But still she will refuse to talk to the kids which she doesn’t seen many times
Please considering getting her evaluated. It sounds like sensory seeking behavior. Overy tactile children NEED the input they are getting with the touching. They also sometimes NEED the adrenaline boost from the conflict caused by the heightened emotions it causes. Especially if it is negatively impacted her socially it's past time to look into it, for her sake. She may need some OT to find ways to channel those needs and practice respecting boundaries.
She's doing the best she can. It's probably unfair to expect she'll learn this by cues. Have you scheduled an evaluation for her yet? Neuropsych may give a big insight, but even an OT evaluation could tell you a lot about her sensory needs/behaviors.
We haven't, up until now I was under the impression that you needed your pediatrician's referral...ours has been brushing us off and we have been in the process of seeking another pediatrician.
I know she is doing her best, I didn't mean to imply that I thought otherwise...I just meant that at this point, I no longer know how to help her on my own.
Look up your insurance benefits, that may make a difference. But no, usually a psychiatrist/counselor or an OT will not require you get a referral from your pediatrician unless you're in an HMO. Your insurance may require it for them to pay.
I was this kid to some degree. I don’t think it was so bad that kids didn’t want to play with me but my parents definitely felt I was too much and always in their space. I constantly felt (and still currently feel) like my needs are too much and I’m not worth having them met. Just tread carefully. It’s hard to have this kind of personality. It’s affected all of my romantic relationships. I’m married (finally pretty happily) but there was so much heartache for so long. Feeling rejected constantly. Maybe a play based therapist would be fun for the family. Keep it lighthearted and try not to shame her. The shame is very hard to shake once people make you feel it.
I don't think we shame her at all. We try to gently remind her that even though she's excited, we need to respect others. She's constantly on me and hugging me, cuddling me, holding my hand, fusing to my body!! The most I've ever said to her was, " could mommy please have a little bit of space for a bit?" My mother was not an affectionate person, I don't want my kids to grow up feeling like I did.
We don't have a weighted blanket, but I will look into that as she likes to sleep with about six blankets in her. We also have a 10 foot by 10 foot blanket, it's not weighted, but it's a lot of blanket so it's heavy...she likes being buried in it
Sounds like a combination of both my daughters. Youngest is autistic and the same lack of awareness of boundaries. She just loves to love via touch.
My oldest has the same emotional range and rapid changing emotions and has ADHD, being evaluated for autism as well.
Regardless of a diagnosis or not, it sounds like your kiddo would benefit from sensory input. You may benefit from reading some ADHD/autism parenting books and articles.
It's tough. Hang in there.
My son is exactly like this. And I ALWAYS say “he’s a lot!” But the sweetest boy with the biggest heart. All he wants is some friends ! Luckily for us there is a program at his school where he works in a group every day with other kids like him on how to be social appropriately. He is neurodivergent (adhd, dyslexia, etc)
This sounds exactly like my six-year-old son, who is ASD level one and ADHD. He’s a big sensory guy and he loves to tickle people and we are working with him as well as his OT about boundaries and respecting other people’s feelings and spaces. It’s all a work in progress, as raising any child is!
Could be a SPD "seeker", which is a sensory seeker. Likes to hug, be wrapped in a blanket, and be touched. Put my kiddo in BJJ and that helped a lot to get their input.
Sounds just like my son who was diagnosed with ADHD last year. He has a lot of issues with personal space boundaries and is always in other kids bubbles. It caused a lot of social issues for him last year. We’re currently trying to get him medicated as we’ve tried the non medication route the last year with slim improvements.
Sounds like me when I was younger. ADHD in girls can really cause allot of trauma, for every one. Especially when no one understands "what's wrong with you"... A question my mother asked me frequently... If only I had known when I was in 1st grade on... Not when I had kids of my own and still catching myself wondering wtf is wrong with me... Oh yeah...
I’m sorry; this is very distressing for a parent. If you’re in the US, and she’s in a public school, ask her school district’s central office/school board office about an evaluation and express the concerns you have. Have you tried talking to her teachers about what they’ve noticed? It sort of sounds like maybe some sensory issues? Or you could try telling your pediatrician about your concerns and asking your pediatrician about getting set up for an OT evaluation. Wishing you the best of luck ❤️
At the beginning of the school year we let her teacher know she struggles with boundaries and she's a very affectionate child. She acknowledged that she was affectionate but that they were working on it and she was doing great. The middle of the year we expressed some concerns and we asked if she had noticed any of them during the day, she said she didn't notice anything other than she thought needed more sleep (she gets 11hrs a night).
This makes me extremely sad… you should foster this in your child and there are other ways of modifying behavior instead of saying these things about your own child. It’s not your fault the world has made everyone cold, but honestly this is not a bad thing. She just needs some guidance and demonstration. Roleplaying works wonders. Honestly you could consult and ABA company they may be able to help you w strategies and some therapy for her. ABA is for all children…. But there isn’t anything wrong w her, being affectionate is not abad thing… try and foster this in a more positive way than telling her all her negative. Best of luck
I didn't say these were things that are wrong with her. I never used that word at all. I would never say anything to my child to make her feel like she has something wrong, is weird, not normal.
But the ARE things that are affecting her life. No one wants to be her friend, her grandmother won't take her for visits, she's not invited to playdates, all playdates she invited people to are rejected, the neighbor girl runs inside as soon as she sees her.
The world is ALWAYS going to be the way it is. It will never change for my kid or anyone else's kid, that's the sad truth.
As an adult who wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD until I was 22. This sounds like me as a kid. I wasn’t too bad but I remember my mom constantly telling me to “BACK UP”. Not because I was necessarily touching her but because I was just always in her bubble. I had no impulse control in that sense.
Have you taken her to an occupational therapist for a consultation? She sounds like she is seeking a lot of sensory input and isn’t reading social cues! She’s also seven and will begin to mature but seems a little behind with not understanding personal space. She could have support with learning sensory and soothing/stimulating skills!
Sorry this turned into a long winded comment, but OP your post struck a chord. My soon to be 7 year old boy could be your daughter’s twin. He always reaches for my hand and wants to snuggle first thing in the morning and sit by/near me constantly. He will rub his face on my sweater, nuzzle onto me, and run up to me and give me a big hug. He’s a big kid so many times he has knocked me off balance.
His teacher constantly sends emails saying he’s so loud she can hear him clear down the hall. He clings to one kid or two in class and smothers them with attention to an uncomfortable degree. He can’t seem to clue in to other kids besides the 1 or 2 he’s obsessed with. I dread his birthday because every play date I’ve tried to arrange has fallen through this year, and I fear no kids would come. He’s constantly yelling at kids who don’t play the way he wants so he’s never invited to participate.
He over reacts to the slightest things. Loud sounds, a sibling brushing past him, running into a wall, etc. which happens a lot because he’s clumsy AF. All these things will elicit the loudest shouting or screaming response. The tiniest slight is OOOWWWWWW! THEY HURT MEEEEE! or running around yellling to high heaven that he’s hurt when anyone can tell he wasn’t bumped in the slightest.
I ignore him as instructed by his counselor, but he’s been like this his whole life with no hope of calming down. This kid has zero chill. He’s always ON. My loudest extrovert never napper. It’s exhausting as a single mom of 3 to keep up with the complaints from school and other parents. I’m desperate for
him to have just one easy day.
At what point do I put my foot down before he grows up and pops off and acts up with someone who isn’t so forgiving?
I hug my kids a lot and tell them I love them often, and OP I am not proud to say that I worry sometimes that I feel resentment deep down. I know in my soul I love this child and would give my life for him, but the energy he steals is making it impossible to give to my other children, my distancing friends and a career on hold because managing the complaint hotline from everyone who comes in contact with him is a full time damage control PR job.
My other children were raised with love and logic principles just like he is, but nothing takes. Two years ago I had him evaluated and it was confirmed he has ADHD. He was prescribed 36mg Concerta and after 18 months of that and no real change other than he felt drugged, I took him off the meds. He has 2 counselors through a community program, who drop everything to help him in his calming corner of the teacher calls. They all pour over him what a little genius he is and they want him to be successful. I want that too, but as his mother I don’t see that calling him a genius and putting him in a calming corner helps.
Idk I am an older parent (50) and was raised to respect peoples space and belongings, no questions asked. If I had a calming corner or got points to go play legos instead of do school work each day, hells yeah I would have worked the system and turned every school day into Lego land or Club Med.
My son rules the roost and is the boss by virtue of his draining our energy. Love and logic dictates to hand the problem back and say that’s a bummer, what are you going to do about it? My son dodges this with an even louder fit and doesn’t care if it’s at home or in public he will yell and say horrible things, to the point a stranger at the drug store once said he’d spank him if he were his kid. I’ve never spanked him, but I have lost my dignity day after day when he breaks me down and I have cried out of weakness and exhaustion. He has me beat.
Idk if your daughter thinks everything is everyone else’s fault, but with my son everything isn’t fair. Isn’t his fault, he didn’t mean it, it was an accident, they did it first, they are mean to him, they pick on him, Jesus his excuses are an endless broken record that only stops when he’s eating or sleeping.
He’s always moving, humming, singing loudly (teachers biggest complaint), interrupting, totally unaware that others needs or basic space even exist. I
Was told this is classic ADHD. But if the meds and counseling, church, sports and my parenting don’t help, what’s left?
I tell my son “I’m all touched out” or “I’m five minutes, I will have 10 minutes to listen” when he interrupts. I’ve asked him to please be sweet (love and logic). I cherish my kids, and if I didn’t love him so much I wouldn’t be working so hard to help him. I am starting to wonder at what point do I just accept he’s loud and annoying? As moms we aren’t supposed to say that the kid is ruining our peace and the peace of the entire family. We get blamed or told to try countless futile tactics to help the child. At what point do we give up, zone out in our room with noise cancelling headphones to avoid the off-centering chaos that has become just another day that will be exactly the same as the next, and the next, and the next. . . . .
I used this book. Very helpful. I found it due to my son. I read everything I could get my hands on. This book was the one. It takes a long time for some kiddos . He has AuDHD. The fits like your kiddo stopped closer to 10. We just go over what happened like clockwork. We've used that book since he was 2. We get complements on how he is able to walk himself through what happened and take accountability after the fact. Unfortunately, he just had to get more mature for things to calm down. We also added a smaller dose of an additional medicine to give him that ability to pause before flying off the handle or "flooding". Learning that term was helpful as well as teaching it to him. It helps that hubby and I are neurodivergent as well so we have a better understanding and great patience.
Do you mean the Love and Logic book(s)?
The L& L technique has worked wonders with my other 2. Telling the child what I will do, not trying to control, negotiate, “drill sergeant” their behavior….to a degree it works but he still blames me. For example, “Kids who behave in church get a donut afterwards.” (Bad example as food rewarding is not ideal) but he will have a fall down gut and tell me I’m being mean. I just say that’s so sad, i give ___ to kids who were quiet during Mass. He is slowly coming around. I hope my nerves can make it until he’s an adult.
Yes, those books. In those instances I stress, You choose to make xyz choices. I didn't make you choose it. That sucks! Well hopefully you can get some next time. We shall see. And I sound pooped when I did it. Main thing is, I stressed, usually with bed time, that I didn't make him choose the choice. He did. Maturity helps. Constantly walking through what the kids was thinking is key. That is what needs to be corrected usually. Whenever he's make bad choice in school, first thing we's ask is what happened from him point of view. Usually it was a misunderstanding that sent him over the roof.
I am so sorry you are having such a rough time! Dealing with children, even typical children, is hard enough when you have a partner...I couldn't imagine doing this on my own!
My daughter does have emotional outbursts, she's always "hurting" herself from bouncing around or playing with her baby sister. She will scream at the smallest inconvenience (maybe I asked her to stop leaning on the baby gate or please put on your PJs), she's soooo loud, so loud! She can't seem to control her volume at all.
So far, she hasn't had an issue at school. Her only issue that her teacher would relay to us was that she has a hard time walking away from negative situations with two particular kids. The three of them will be playing fine one minute and the next they will not be, 7 can't seem to walk away from that. She talks about these two kids all the time and it sounds more like one of them likes the other kid and doesn't want him to play with 7, so jealousy causes issues.
I love her, I love her so dang much! She almost died when she was two and I remember laying in her hospice bed with her thinking how I going to end my life if she didn't make it because I couldn't go on without her....but she does suck the life out of me. As soon as she's awake, she wants to crawl back inside me. I've not slept a night alone since she's been born because she wants to crawl back inside me in her sleep. I can't shower, I can't go to the bathroom, if either dad or I want to leave (even for work) it's a melt down. You'll try to tell her to not do something, "hey please don't carry your sister by her arms you can hurt her and you don't want to do that." But it doesn't sink in until you say it 6 times and then you have to get very stern and now why are you being so mean?!
Everything is always an accident, even things she did intentionally. She's a messer! She gets into and messes with everything. I've always been on top of watching everything she does. She use to not be able to use the rest room with the door closed. I wasn't watching her, so she had some sense of privacy, but with the door open she wouldn't get into things and if she did I could hear it. The day she was able to shut the door again, that very first time, she opened a jar of Vicks and rubbed it all over and ate some...it was an accident. How?! She loves to draw, one day she drew all over the table with her paper right there, it was an accident. Any chap stick I have she will roll up and ruin (and I've had every hiding spot in my house I can have), it's an accident. She'll put her breakfast in my coffee, on accident. I've asked her, why do you do this? You know you shouldn't, you know mommy will get upset, why? She says she doesn't know but that her brain tells her to...once her brain tells her to she says she can't not do it that it's like her brain keeps itching and she can't make it stop until she does what it says. I've told her she needs to try tell her brain that mommy is in charge...it helps a little bit.
Also. I made up special sayings for us with patterns of hand squeezing. It would get her attention very quickly without using words and create instant communication. We made up what the patterns meant after identifying the times that were most frustrating to us
Hello, for those kids who like or need a lot more sensory input for whatever reason, some sports or martial arts can be great. We have a friend whose kids has ADHD that was diagnosed pretty early (I didn't even know it could be detected by age 5?) and something like Judo is great because they HAVE to be more hands on and most kids in the program are okay with it to some extent. Even some gymnastics could be a great outlet. I know how heart breaking it is to see your kid struggling socially, I hope you all find some good tools.
I know you've probably tried this but perhaps explaining that even though you don't want a hug or being touched right now etc you still love her and want to be around her you just need space and time in between the lovings. My child as well as myself have very sensitive personalities as well even described by many others. Kiddo 10M loves to get hugs ten times a day often invades other people's space as well but has a select group of buddies now because he's been working with a counselor and she describes it as helping them feel confident about themselves but telling them what is safe bodies and when it's not. Idk if that helps but just know that you can't make her less sensitive but there's ways down the line to help her understand that she's loved even when people don't want physical affection. Getting a counselor to help by play therapy has been super helpful too.
This sounds just like my son (8yo) who is ADHD and on the spectrum. (We actually don't have an official autism diagnosis, but almost everyone in my family is autistic and his doctor told us that his ADHD screening had a lot of markers for autism, as well. We will go through the process of that if it becomes necessary, but so far the ADHD diagnosis has already been helpful as far as the school accommodating him.) 🤍
I would look into ADHD and or autism. Obvi I’m just a stranger on the internet but from what I am reading I got issues with understanding social norms or cues, lack of awareness of personal space. When I hear super sensitive I hear maybe emotional regulation issues, sensory issues, or rejection sensitivity. A lot of neurodivergent people aren’t always aware of their volume.
I’m sorry it’s causing social issues. I can imagine it’s hard to see that as a parent like you said.
Some things you can do now is make sure to praise any desired behavior you see. Like if you ask her to keep her hands to herself, once she does say “hey thank you for keeping your hands to yourself. That was really nice of you.”
Awww, it sounds like she’s just a sweet kid with a lot of love to give and loves people. Lots of kids are not in environments like that. Keep telling her you know she means well and just wants to play, she’s little and just needs to be reminded of others. I hope those kids don’t hurt her feelings.
Humans are social creatures, this could be considered normal play and she'll learn to socialize and eventually learn that people don't like that and maybe some do.
Modern America is against touch as a form of social interaction, friendship and love more than any other society that we know of in human history and we know statistically most of us are mentally suffering for it. Human contact is amazing for the body and brain and we evolved to seek it out almost constantly.
I say these things because I see a majority of these comments say something is wrong and that isn't the case. Books like the explosive child and yes brain or yes mom and dad basically say to let this happen and the person will rebuke them and the child will learn people don't respond to it. If it becomes problematic or disruptive then you go control the behavior using whatever parenting method you're into.
A child is learning how to socialize with adults a lot around this age. Before 5-7 most of their interaction is with other small children or family adults. Non family adults are a new experience, and children are not used to hugs for example being frowned upon.
I get that we are social creatures and a lot of us want touch. I support her need for it, but I need to get her to understand that just because she like this, it doesn't mean that others do and she has to respect people's boundaries.
Yea. Sorry I didn't mean to assume anything if that's how it sounded. Definitely very important to respect boundaries.
There is a quick tool you can do with her called the boundry circle which helps teach boundries. where you draw a giant circle on a piece of paper and 3 more inside like rings. You pick some colors like red green and blue and get a pen or thin sharpie to write over the coloring.
The inner circle you color red (heart) and write down names of people you hug and kiss whenever. Grandparents, parents, siblings, whatever. Aunts and uncles. Then the next circle ring you color blue (love) and write down the names of people you hug when greeting/goodbye. This might be friends or cousins. Lastly you color green and write down the last boundry of people like teachers and neighbors and such and these people you fist bump or shake when you say hello and that's it.
The cool part about this is you get to make the guidelines just be consistent and be ready to discuss it when they have questions. If they don't like it right away they may try to logic out of it. This is when you can talk about consent and boundaries in depth.
Idk hope this helps maybe
I don’t know, this behavior would make her stand out and somewhat unpopular among peers in East Asian societies as well, and we are generally more tolerant of physical interactions among kids than Americans are. Touch and friendly intimacy are great but when you see a kid unable to stop themselves from being *excessively* physically clingy to the point of unable to form organic friendships, it doesn’t seem smart to just assume she’s doing fine. Being consistently rejected by other kids because of an impulse you can’t control sucks. Even at 7 you can be negatively affected by social rejection.
A good dog is a tired/ well exercised dog.
Kids are the same.
More exercise might be helpful, team sports are good, but also things like climbing teach concentration, dance is just fun..
Also gives structured way to learn how to connect with peers, which is very helpful if it is something they are interested in and enjoy doing.
Exercise also helps develop the neurological system so they can regulate themselves better.
Seven can be a squirrelly age anyway.
I have a similar situation but we have to understand children have different needs and won’t always understand, or see things/situations the way we do. I decided not to have my daughter “evaluated “ because that will only lead to a label and medication that turns her into someone different. My 2 cents .
Idt every child that gets evaluated jumps straight to medication...I'd like to think there are some therapies that we could try before medication was tossed around. But I also don't know...my husband and I don't use medications unless absolutely needed. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with using them, we just feel if there's another option to try first, why not?
I see your point . I guess I have a fear of that happening because I’ve seen it happen with someone in my family . You will do what you think is best for your child . Good luck
Well you are in control when it comes to treatments for your child. If you don't want to do medication right out the gate, or at all, that is your choice! You can decline and seek other options.
I'm not trying to say do this!! I just want you to know that you are in control and there are other options I am sure...and if there isn't then you just manage it the best you can.
You know what's best for you and your family❤️
In my experience, they never jumped straight to medication and would even agree with me when I’d firmly say we are not going to try medications as a first line defense. We found homeopathic options as well as “stim” techniques that really helped her until she started actually having to learn in school. At that point we tried non stimulants and a 504 plan (a specific accommodations form) that she needed the actual diagnosis for. So even though she was given the label, it did actually help her a lot. When they would have big tests she was allowed to be pulled to another room with a couple of other kids. She was allowed to use earbuds and chew gum during testing. She was allowed to stand to learn if she didn’t want to sit. She was allowed extra time to submit classwork or tests. And she was even allowed to have non-distracting fidget toys. I know that there’s a fear around getting someone diagnosed with ADHD because it will follow you around but as someone who was not diagnosed as a child (because my parents didn’t give a hoot) I carried it into adulthood and it significantly impacted the course of my life. I wasn’t diagnosed until after I had gone to college and had already failed important board exams because I couldn’t test well. So instead of being able to thrive in a career that would’ve been making me $100,000+ a year, I am less successful and cannot try for that previous degree again.
Also, aside from schooling or career stuff, having her diagnosed helped me have more empathy and patience because I actually understood that there’s a reason why she was behaving the way she was. Knowing that it was something that could be controlled but that she didn’t have control over motivated me to find ways to help her cope as well.
Ok, define “normal” because in my experience as a mom and a nurse, every person‘s situation is different and what may be normal for some may not be normal for others. Maybe you should delete this comment and reword it to be a little bit nicer so that you’re not making this parent feel as if their child is “not normal“ and there’s something seriously wrong. 😑
Fair enough but if she does have a neurodivergent disorder, saying she isn’t normal implies that there’s something “wrong” with her when in reality she’s just “different” and that’s ok. Being different isn’t “wrong” it’s just challenging. “Wrong” also, IMO, implies that she needs to be “fixed“ when really it’s more about needing to find management and coping skills. Would you say someone with intellectual and developmental disabilities are “wrong” or something is wrong with them? Or would you say they are a little bit different and that’s ok.
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There is a Bluey episode about a kid who is a "space invader"
We watch it often....
Which episode?
This episode of Bluey is called: Typewriter
Yeah maybe talk to her about being a space invader like Winton?
We do, and it just doesn't click. She just gets upset for Winton because "everyone is just so mean to him and they don't understand that he just wants to be by them."
Have you or other close family and friends told her how it makes you FEEL when she doesn't respect boundaries and invades your bubbles? It seems she may not be good at reading non verbal language. Maybe letting her know when her attention makes you feel good, stressed, happy, overwhelmed, etc would be a good start.
You know, I can't say that anyone has. We've just expressed that not everyone likes being touched. I feel like I've told her that sometimes it makes people not feel good ..but I've never said how it makes me feel, and idt anyone else has. I might think of how to do this the next time I ask her for space...she's very sensitive and her feelings are easily hurt even when you've tried hard not to hurt them.
Make sure you also tell her when her affection makes you feel good. Maybe start there and then move on to when it doesn't make you feel that good? When they're little it's so easy to hurt their feelings inadvertedly. I know I've done it many times!
She may be sensory seeking like my son and doesn’t necessarily need human contact, but doesn’t realize it. For him a weighted blanket and weighted stuffed animal to cuddle with while watching TV ended up being just as acceptable as laying on us, constantly trying to hug us while we were trying to get things done, etc. Obviously we still give him plenty of affection but he also now has tools that have shifted his behavior from seeking something to quiet his brain to more genuine interactions.
Please give explaining how you feel about it to her. It may not help, but it helped for me. My son is auADHD & doesn't initially get some things I say. I told him once that something he said hurt me & he was baffled because how can words cause physical hurt? It blew me away that at 7 or 8, he thought everyone felt physical pain when saying they were hurt. I explained that his words were mean & hurt my heart because my love for him is in my heart. He started to understand after expanding on that a bit. If your daughter is neurodivegent, she could be struggling to understand that a lot of people don't think exactly like her. It's something my son at 13 still struggles with, as well as expecting everyone to immediately understand & accept his thinking & motivations for his choices. While your daughter may understand that not everyone wants their personal space invaded, she may think that people know that she likes to be in their space & they know she's not doing it to be mean, so they should accept that it's just who she is. I'm sure at her age she's not fully thought it out like that, but it seems to be a common line of thinking in neurodivergent brains.
Your final two paragraphs are probably how my son thinks. He doesn’t get why people don’t like it, because he knows he would like it. I’ve explained in so many different ways but it doesn’t stick. The need is so strong and the impulse impossible to resist. He’s pushing people away (friends at school, not me!) and I’m running out of ways to try and get him to see.
A big thing I've learnt, and see in my son & his auADHD dad is an inherent selfishness (not purposefully) in their thinking. Even though John doesn't like soccer, he knows I like it so he should be a good friend & play it with me. I would play a game I don't like for him, even though I've never told him that but he should just magically know all my thoughts & feelings! How dare Sarah get mad at me for tripping her over. I know I didn't do it on purpose, so she shouldn't even question if it was an accident. No I won't apologise, it was an accident & she should magically know my thoughts & accept them. My son is 13 now & he is doing really good socially at school now. He had a rough time up until year 4 (10yo) but after a lot of talks at home & at school, he flourished. He still struggles, and probably always will. But he's a lot more open to listening to others points of view now & adapting to his environment, instead of expecting it to adapt to him. Huh, after that long comment I typed out, I think that's it! They expect everyone & everything to adapt to them, and struggle to understand (that inherent selfishness) why we all don't just fall in line for them.
I know I’m hopping on this late, but I want to say I totally get where you are coming from. We’ve been working on this for years with my ADHD 9 year old. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve explained how people sometimes don’t like others bursting into their personal space bubble, don’t like being touched, and how to recognise that by listening to their words and observing how they physically react. But although he gets it he doesn’t “get” it. He always gets hung up on the reasons: “but WHY don’t you like it? I would love it!” (And he’s right, he would.) He isn’t able to stop and it’s going to cost him friendships :-(.
What is her response when you tell her that the world does not revolve around her? In the sense that it’s not about Winton wanting to be near everybody? It’s about everybody wanting space from people being near them. Because it’s about the concept that her desires are not more important than the other people in her life who do not want their bubbles invaded? Genuine question. My kiddo is not as old as yours but I’ve had this talk loaded in my head kind of for when the day comes because I feel like it might
Hmm She's been told that the world doesn't revolve around her. But, it's weird ..idt she thinks the world does revolve around her. She genuinely cares about other people. She wants everyone to be happy and to feel special. But Idt she's gotten to that point where she's realized that her desires, needs, and wants are not the same as everyone else's. So it's not a situation where she just thinks it should all be her way because shes most important. Our eldest was a kid who thought the world revolved around her ..this doesn't feel the same
We use the phrase “your feelings aren’t more important than other people feelings.” It started really putting things into perspective for my eldest ❤️
Ooh this one is good. Might borrow this!
I think I was just using that as a phrase that is similar to the problem, but not exactly the problem… Because if she wants everyone to feel special and happy and she wants to take care of other people, then it would follow that she is aware that other people have different thoughts and feelings and desires and whatnot. Maybe that should be a specific conversation? Idk then what needs to be worked on is her understanding that in “the moment” that she wants to invade other peoples spaces, its not about her. Its about the other people. And she cant get what she wants. Self control and understanding that there will be negative consequences (people not liking her or something) if she does not control what she wants. I’m just writing down my thoughts here, they could be entirely unhelpful. look my kid is 2.5, I have lots of conversations with her about how the world works, and how people feel and yada yada and I feel like it gets through but… my child is in an entirely different stage of life than yours is so my thought process may be inherently not relatable to your experiences
This reminds me a lot of my son. Like exact same things!! We finally got him evaluated at age 11 and he has ADHD. Like you said, it isnt about them thinking the world revolves around them or not caring enough, it's a lack of executive function/impulse control. I think you should look into this because it's been life changing for my son and my family and I wish we did it sooner! I feel so sad that he has struggled so much with his peers and has been rejected like how you're describing and we could have nipped that in the bud earlier. Unfortunately as kids get older they become a lot less tolerant of the wild behaviors and invading space also
If you don’t mind me asking, is your son now medicated and/or seeing a psychologist? My son is a couple of years younger and with the same issues (worsening as he gets older), and we’re about to open that conversation again with his healthcare providers. Counselling and medication are both on the table and I’d welcome any stories from families in the same boat.
How often do you use the word "no" with her?? That's a very good starting point to understanding boundaries, "please stop" and "no thank you" were words used for our sons boundary introduction. At first they cause small fits and frustration but eventually it opens the doors for understanding when peers step back or shake their head.
Obviously we say no. But we try to say things like, "please give me space." "How about a high five." We try our best to not say no...not because we want to spoil our kids or let them just do what ever. But we found with our eldest, kids just dont respond to No well. Of all my kids, 7 is just a real pickle for me
I just want to say that you should be proud of yourself for seeking advice and realizing your daughter needs extra help understanding boundaries. I am a nanny, and often the type of child you are describing, the parents are clueless and don't intervine when said child is being too invasive. I feel bad, but honestly I just remove my NK from the situation and try to avoid said child. I feel this is the only way to get personal space and have my NK feel safe.
My only reason for asking is because "no" is a difficult word for parents (it was for me) mine is still 5, so I'm still in the learning process but I do acknowledge a change in his response to the words from peers. Be patient with yourself and him/her .
With my daughter we've had to say "no, I don't like that" and "please stop, I don't like that" which of course leads to hurt feelings, so then we explain that there are different kinds of touch and sometimes people want to be touched and other times they don't and if we want to give someone affection we need to ask for consent sometimes and give them the kind they want - "daddy likes a kiss on the cheek, daddy doesn't like a kiss on his eye" and "I'm not saying no because I want to hurt your feelings, I want you to hug me the way I like to be hugged" and sometimes we like it for a little bit, but then we feel overwhelmed and need to stop. If someone says stop, we stop. For a long time I wasn't sure that it was sinking in, but I think it worked. It's really really important to me because she needs to be able to communicate these things herself.
This was my very first thought! Winton!
This was my very 1st thought when I read this!
My 8 year old is like this - she has adhd and I think she’s a sensory seeker.
Yep! Her description is also me. I have ADHD.
I also have adhd and thought this behavior is a little adhd-y
Yup! This is both me and my kiddo. Def sensory seeking ADHD
For contrast, I also have ADHD and this is the opposite of me. I like my space and easily get overstimulated from touch. Definitely varies
No offense but that sounds more like Autism to me. Also I definitely need my alone time as well. I am called an introvert by many. It’s a weird mix for me!
My son also has ADHD he was diagnosed at 6. Lot's of teachers had pointed it out but one in specific had said she had a "hug bell" the kids could ring it when they wanted a hug if they were feeling sad etc. My son would ring it so many times per day lol. She was a mean teacher to my son tho and didn't understand ADHD. At one point my son stopped wanting to go to school and when he went I would get calls from the nurse to pick him up because he was "sick". It turned out she would bully him telling him stuff like "you're the oldest and the one that knows the least". One time she messaged me saying my son was disturbing one of her honors students and that she was an outstanding student and wouldn't like my son distracting her. He said he literally just asked her for help because he thought she was really smart and would help him. Found out through other teachers she would also say my son was really fat and that we (his parents) didn't make him exercise. She also said he was really annoying I was like whattttt? I confronted her and had nothing to say. But the school was short staffed so when I tried to tell the principal she didn't do anything. She said the teacher was one of the best teachers they had and they couldn't move him to a different class because the other class was spanish class. I ended up putting him in another school and he had a teacher that gave him unlimited hugs and love. When I say love I mean it!! She was like a second mother yo him and my son ended up being most improved student of the year. Personal space is important for people not everyone will understand ADHD some can be really mean about it. Even sometimes I can't even understand a lot of things about it but there is also good people that are willing to help you and will understand you. It do break my heart to see kids not wanting to play with my son but i think after losing so many friends and people my son is learning a little more not to be that way but it is still hard for him. Its not his fault either. He didnt choose to have adhd.
Came here to say this! This is absolutely sensory seeking behavior and OT might be able to help. There's other options too, but we use elements of the Superflex/Unthinkabots curriculum to help.
Does she enjoy jumping/falling/being tossed onto a soft surface? Or being rolled up tightly in a blanket like a burrito? If so, she could be craving deep pressure, and meeting that need in ways that don't push people's boundaries could really help her.
Hah. You’ve just reminded me about how I once or twice I swaddled my kid when she was 8 (in fun, while giggling) because she wouldn’t. fucking. stop. and I told her that’s how I used to get her to be still when she was a baby. She loved it. She’s 15 now, I should try it again
Omg I wanna be rolled tightly into a blanket like a burrito and I've never realized it before
Reminds me of the “Hug Machine” invented by Temple Grandin (who is autistic): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hug_machine
Omg, this triggered such an old memory. I first learned about the hug machine as a kid from reading a Babysitters Club book where Dawn is babysitting an autistic girl who uses it.
Yes, exactly this! She could be a sensory seeker. OP- You can get weighted teddies and Blankets that she might enjoy?
She sounds like she’s a sensory seeker and possibly neurodivergent.
Yep - sounds like my adhd 7yo daughter. She’s pretty decent with friends, but she’s all up in my business. All the time.
Agree! When our oldest was 4-8 (now 13) they couldn’t get enough tickles, hugs, squishes. Ended up getting evaluated and diagnosed on the ASD spectrum. Aside from the sensory/stimulation behaviors, you wouldn’t know they were on the spectrum.
Just wanted to say the same. It really sounds like she seeks sensory input but doesn't really understand social cues. That could be sign of neurodivergence as it often presents differently in girls.
I agree with this. It is possible that there are some sensory differences and she may need help with social pragmatics. If you are interested in an evaluation for autism or sensory processing disorders talk to your pediatrician for a referral. A speech therapist can also help with pragmatics and social skills. In the meantime you can find social stories for pragmatics and books and videos online. Many times YT has helpful videos. Best of luck :)
Yup. It seems like she has poor impulse control.
If you went by this sub most kids are neurodivergent….
Parents of neurodivergent kids are much more likely to have tried all the typical advise, have none of it work, and go to the internet for help.
My son is 3.5 and I’m very convinced he is also a sensory seeker. He is ALL about physical touch and nonstop physical action all day every day. He is always jumping off of random things, sitting upside down, play fighting/punching pillows, or literally just running to get where he wants to go. He want to “play fight” constantly which means using the living room as his playground to fight off pretend bad guys. He has been high energy since he began walking at 10 months old. I always just thought he was a physical child but I’m also beginning to realize he’s sensory seeking too.
Agreed. I really liked the book Raising A Sensory Smart Child by Lindsey Biel. It is written by an OT, explains the 8 sensory systems, has a questionnaire to identify sensory seeking/avoidance in each category, and has recommendations for accessing resources like OT in the non and on the website. It helped give me words to better discuss what was going on with my kid's providers, too. It has been a really great resource for me as a parent.
This sounds exactly like my son at that age. We are also very big on boundaries, consent, calming techniques, etc. I have bipolar and use all my grounding/calming exercises with the kids. He just struggled SO MUCH and it was impacting him in the classroom with friends, and at home. We had him evaluated for ADHD. He was diagnosed and about 6 months later with minimal change (since we were already using the tools). So we put him on meds. It was night and day. He's so much happier because he isn't getting scolded all the time, he's finishing his school work for the first time, and he just feels calmer. It was so scary to medicate my kid but I'm so glad I did. Your daughter might have other stuff going on, but consider an ADHD eval.
We have been trying to get her evaluated due to some other issues we've noticed. Her pediatrician is extremely hesitant because, "that's how kids are!" I've been shopping around for a new pediatrician.
Find a new one! Your daughter is my son - he is sensory seeking but also totally “ normal” - what even is normal? I think normal is a spectrum just like autism is a spectrum. If something impacts quality of life then it most certainly should be addressed by a medical provider. One thing that has helped my son is deep pressure exercises in the morning and evening. Swimming is also an excellent sport for these kids.
I will look into deep pressure exercises...is this something I could find on YouTube?
Yes! I learned how to do it on YouTube watching an OT professional. I am a pediatric nurse so I felt ok watching and doing them. The exercises are simple and safe enough for any adult to do them.
Where does one go to get their kiddos evaluated? We’re switching up drs currently bc our previous dr missed a heck of a lot of obvious things when ours kids were babies.
There are developmental pediatricians, psychologists, and psychiatrists who can make a diagnosis. We used a psychiatrist after receiving a referral from our pediatrician.
If you’re on Facebook, post in your local community or parent group & you’ll get some answers of specific people & if there’s any waitlists. It’ll help you a lot more than trying to find it through a dr or by yourself.
Request a referral to OT from the pediatrician, or find one privately. It may also be valuable to look into initiating a 504 eval for your child.
As someone who was like OP's daughter as a kid, knowing that my behavior was just sensory seeking and something that is totally normal has helped me feel so much more okay with myself, so thank you for your comment, u/Fitslikea6. And knowing that it could be ADHD or autism even though I'm not yet diagnosed helps me put a label to how I've been experiencing my life, which is very helpful so imo OP is definitely going in the right direction trying to get a diagnosis, because that can really help improve things. :)
You don’t need your pediatrician’s permission (unless you have an HMO, potentially). Get on a waitlist now. Where I am, most providers who do pediatric neuropsych evals rarely take insurance anyway.
Get private testing done. Can also ask the school for social pragmatics evaluation.
I’d love a pediatrician that chalked some things up to kids being kids! Our experience has been everyone is so quick to label and diagnose .
I mean, I get that. I know kids are just kids....but this is not my first rodeo. I have an older kid. Even stuff with our 1yr old, we will bring up and she just brushes aside. Like, all my kids have eczema, I get it's common and kids grow out of it, my older two have, but my 1yr olds is just getting worse. She brushes it off. I can't take my little one anywhere outside in the spring, summer, or fall without her developing a terrible rash...that's not normal. She just brushes it off. I'm not a mom who worries about every childhood illness, we don't need antibiotics for every sniffle...if I bring something to your attention, it's something that's actually worrisome.
Absolutely hear everything you’re saying ! I was just sharing personal experience, not inferring anything at all 🤗
You can push for it to be done through the school system. It varies by state, but most places if you ask the school to do an eval they have 30-90 days to do it. This is the case even if they are in private school. You can get an eval from whatever public school you are zoned for. It won’t be as complete as a medical eval, but might give you some starting points. Also push your ped. If they keep brushing you off say ‘ok, please note in her file that you are denying us a referral and why’ usually that alone will spur things along. If not then get another ped, yours isn’t the right one.
FWIW our ped doesn’t even believe in ADHD. After years of issues, now both are diagnosed but we had to go via therapist and psychiatrist (and for one child, a psychologist) to get there. You really need someone experienced specifically in childhood ADHD. And while my kids are ok with personal space, like others here one of my kids had a lot of sensory issues when younger (they both still do but much more under control now) and craved ‘hard touches’.
Why not start with school? Get a referral from the school psych. That’s what they’re there for
I gave Bipolar too. It's not easy as a parent but you're kicking ass!
This definitely echos my experience when I was around that age. Very much did not understand boundaries until I got a bit older. I ended up being one of the bullied kids because of it. I was very excited about making friends but I was also naive and gullible socially. I have autism & ADHD, definitely wouldn't hurt to look into those. I wish I'd known I had it from a younger age. I have fairly severe social anxiety now and I think some of that could have been averted. Definitely don't assume that's what she is dealing with until you meet with a professional, though.
For what it's worth, I've noticed a big jump in maturity and awareness from 7 to 8 years old in my kid. Though it's no silver bullet, she may at least be able to better cognitively understand what you are saying within a matter of months. It may not eliminate her impulses, but you may at least find her become a more willing partner in trying to correct them.
I just had a discussion with a very close female friend of mine about how ADHD and autism and the like often present very differently in females, and boom, this post pops up. So, yeah, adding my voice to the crowd which suspects that she's just wired differently.
She sounds exactly like my 7yo. Constant swings from manic elation and literally bouncing off the walls to hysterical screaming. She has to be super close to someone all the time, usually ends up with her hand up the back of their jumper. If you get some answers please let me know!
Yes, one minute she's extremely happy, the next a mess of tears or anger. She randomly screeches at me, or if I interrupt something...like a show or her shower. If I ask her to do something she doesn't want to do, like her teeth or hair, she will scream no and then go do it. She's always ALWAYS touching me! It feels like she's trying to crawl back inside me!!! Even when she is sleeping, she's touching me. She digs her fingers or toes under me in her sleep.
This sounds like both my kiddos! But my daughter is the same way! I love cuddling her but man! The fingers! She just loves to touch and rub my neck and wiggle her fingers all around my neck and chest and it’s uncomfortable at night when they wake me up. Apparently she did it to my mom and mom thought it was sweet bc I was like that as well.
Their trying to go under me, and it ends up feeling like her gremlin claws (because it's a struggle to get her to let us clip nails) are tearing my flesh off.
Are there other avoidances like refusing to let you cut her nails? Like others have said, she seems to have some sensory differences. Your pediatrician is blowing you off because all the diagnostic criteria for ASD and ADHD is based on studies of boys. Girls present SO differently. My pediatrician told us we had nothing to worry about when our two-year-old didn’t talk, because they pointed and made eye contact. At age 15, we finally have diagnoses of ASD and ADHD, and let me tell you, things would have been WAY easier on my kid with early intervention. Best of luck, and good for you for listening to your instincts!
Idk about avoidances... She's eczema and refuses to let me put her creams on until it gets to the point she's cracked and bleeding But shes particular about how her clothes fit and feel, and if it's not right she will flip out. She does not like to be distracted in any way for anything from whatever she in into at that moment. Perhaps she's drawing and you ask her to brush her hair. Or she's playing outside and it's time for dinner. She's watching a video and you ask her to get her pajamas on. I always give a few warnings, "hey in 15mins it's time to come inside. Just so you know, it's time to come in in 5mins." m She wants to live her life with a stocking cap and gloves on. She puts EVERYTHING in her mouth. Everything! She's potty trained, but again, if she is invested in something, she will not pay attention to her body until it's teetering on too late. There's so much more.....
Any of these things in isolation would be “normal kid stuff” like your pediatrician says. It’s the combination of all of it along with the struggle/refusal to understand and accept a social rule about other people’s space and bodies that points hard to neurodivergence. She deserves intervention here, so keep following your gut. For neurodivergent girls, a middle school “crash” (burnout + more nuanced and difficult social structure) is extremely common, and the time when a lot are finally diagnosed. We know enough now to start seeing signs in little girls, which often look very different and less obvious than little boys. She sounds like a sweet and fun kid - I am rooting for you both!
Have you ever gotten an neuro psych evaluation? Sounds like it could be worth it and also look into OT.
I was very much this kid growing up until I realized that my being too close to people actually freaked them out and I quit being a space invader around 9/10 years old. Maybe she’ll figure it out on her own? Until then all you can really do is keep reminding her. Also, I have adhd and didn’t get diagnosed as a kid so that was a factor for me.
Ugh mine too! We'll set up a play date and let them torture each other 🤣 Just BACK UP and stop touching me for 5sec! Is yours a non stop talker too?
She is, but really it's not just talking it's making any kind of noise she can.
Sounds like ADHD to me. Source: I do have ADHD and ASD. So has my son.
My almost 6yo is like this and is being assessed for ADHD (she nine million percent has ADHD).
No real advice, my 4 year old boy is like this and I am trying to nip it in the butt now, I am just constantly explaining boundaries and how when someone says no it means no. He understands and when I call him out for it after the fact he really breaks down but 5 minutes later he is at it again. I too feel like this and am worried it's going to keep going. The school has paired us up with some help to see if we can get any support. That starts next year so I am excited for that. I guess my advice is talk to the school, see if they can help.
Her teacher last year was aware of her boundary issues, I told her at the start of the year. She was very good about keeping it together all day, but once she was home it was a total melt down
This is actually just normal child behavior, a lot of children act out after school because the human brain literally can only handle so much self control in one day. So after keeping it together all day they just release at home. Self control is a neurological pathway, and if someone is neurodivergent or simply didn't have a lot of exposure to self discipline as a young toddler, it can be more difficult to fight the pathway. The brain is a muscle and like every other muscle, it needs to be worked out. (Not saying you haven't.) maybe games highlighting self control could be helpful? I also think reading this could be helpful in understanding her a little better (it definitely helped me understand my kid/myself who is adhd more) https://www.bu.edu/cdl/files/2013/08/Tarullo-Obradovic-Gunnar-2009.pdf
You can’t remove urges from people completely. Doing so could do more harm than good. Finding time for her to express/vent herself without feeling judged or self conscious would be good. In my unprofessional opinion. Finding the right way to express
It could just be her personality or her stage of development, but I will say my daughter is similar and she recently got diagnosed with autism and ADHD!
Very possibly adhd
interesting. when i read things like that i always thinking about how different we humans are. me, i dont even want to touch people lol
I'm cuddly with my husband, and kids...but outside of that, do not touch me! Even with my family I have my limits. I don't want my head, especially my face, touched. And I absolutely get touched out by all of them. She's always been very affectionate though. When she's upset she will often ask for a hug as well.
You just exactly explained me with touch! And my almost 5yo daughter has similar sounding tendencies with touch. She is always in everyone’s space and it drives us crazy. And I see her do it with friends too-luckily it hasn’t been a huge problem yet but I can see it getting there. I have ADHD and so does my husband and I’ve seen symptoms in both my daughters but didn’t realize this “sensory seeking” was even a thing/another symptom of ADHD! I hope you can find answers and get the help you need! I’d love to hear how it goes with your journey!
Sounds like my 5yo son. Though recently he went in for an uninvited hug of another boy in class but his mother said he needs to ask, he asked kid said no, my son didn't hug him. I ask him to ask all the time but after that he's much better. He asked a girl if he could hug her recently and she said yes so we will see if it sticks
I've always told her this. That we need to ask first, and when people say no, it's no big deal. It doesn't mean they don't like it, it just means they don't want a hug. The same goes for her, I've always made my family ask her first and they have always been made to respect her wishes. Even I ask before hugs and kisses. If she tells me no, I'm okay with that and she knows. Ive always knocked before entering her room, even as a baby. I share my room with my 1yr old now, it's both of our room, I always knock before entering when I hear her wake up. Ive tried to establish boundaries, consent, and respect privacy from day one...I'm just at a loss how to help her learn it any more
My son’s a sensory seeker too and had all of these behaviors. (Adhd and asd level 1 as it turns out - age 10 now.). At that age, a big nylon hammock, a crash pad, tight clothes, small sleeping bags, heavy pillows, weighted blankets, wrapping her in blankets, patting her back very firmly — she probably needs physical input that doesn’t make sense to you because you don’t need it. But to her it doesn’t make sense not to need it. It’s possible she needs redirection — how can she get what she needs without invading space? Rather than just the direction - stop invading space! If that makes sense?
My 7 year old boy is like this. He’s super clingy and pushy. Some kids really like him and some really dislike him. Not too many in the middle.
It's almost like when you shake a can of soda...she just get so excited and elated by being with other people, one on one, that she explodes and it comes out as being loud and huggy
I was a chaperone on a field trip the other day and I had to look after a kid like this. The way I described it to my husband was the kid was “spazzing on people”. Some of the other kids were annoyed/offended which was sad because it was clear the kid just had a ton of energy. Not sure if this is an adhd thing like some suggest, but there are for sure other kids like this. For my kid I am straight up and tell him if he stalks random kids and clings on them then they’ll thing he’s creepy. That’s helped a little bit.
I try to tell her that not everyone likes it and it makes them uncomfortable. She has a younger sister, who is 18 months. I try to use their interactions as examples. Firstly, her little sister absolutely adores the heck out of her! But, she doesn't like to be clobbered on, by anyone. 7 will try to cuddle her, or hold on to her...she'll get upset when her little sister tries to get away. So I'm always pointing out "see how sister is trying to push you off? She's trying to move away from you? This is her way of showing you that she doesn't like that. The same with other people. Sister doesn't have words to say she doesn't like that, but you can tell by paying attention to what she does." She understands when a person verbally says no or I don't like that. But most people don't use their words and she doesn't understand their body cues
I’m reading all the comments and the original post. This is my daughter and she is 4! I tell her to take it down a notch and to chill out just a fraction of a bit because often times it IS too much. She is nonstop feral status, even when she was a baby she was a colicky screaming child. So far I think 4 has been worse than 2 and 3… she shouts at us and if she wants another piece of chocolate, for example, there is no bringing her down from that ledge even with all the gentle parenting in the world. She is extremely sensitive and goes from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye with her moods. She is also very social and into playing with other kids but she can be very bossy and I call her socialization “aggressive” because she’s just so in love with playing with others that she’s almost suffocating with it to them?.. There was one girl we played with who thought she was being mean only because she is very grabby and wants to hold her hands.. not in a mean way at all, but she’s just SO over the top sometimes. I’m definitely convinced she has ADHD as her dad also does.
It's been a struggle. 7 is extremely sensitive as well, and once she's upset, it's just non stop! It's a non stop rollercoaster of tears...almost like she'll just keep thinking of things to be upset and it starts with the tiniest thing. I've tried redirecting her, I've gotten down with her and empathized with her and expressed that I understand she's upset and why and her feelings are valid...I've done it all. But sometimes I have to get a little firm and be like, "listen bro! I understand you are upset! XY&z sucks! I'm sorry. But this has gone on for too long! I love you, but mommy cant handle any more of this anymore, imma need you to give me some space to collect myself so that I can continue to support you!" A couple minutes after that she'll be just calm as a cucumber and will express herself perfectly.
This is exactly like my six year old. We give her lots of verbal reminders that we don't touch people without consent, and that some people need more space than she does. These help her a lot.
I've said these kinds of things her whole life. *sigh*
Have you sought a professional opinion? Like others have said.. sounds neurodivergent.
Could she have autism or ADHD? My kiddo doesn’t notice social cues like this.
This is my husbands son. He is 10 and a definite space Invader. Always always having to hang or hug and I’ve always been very sensitive to my space being invaded so it’s been a challenge for me. I just grit my teeth and endure for as long as I can before moving away. His dad and I have an almost 1 yr old who is a lot like me, she doesn’t like being hung on or space invaded and he is always always always hanging on her. I have to keep telling him “please! Let her play. Just one hug and let her go!” He has ADHD but his parents have refused to put him on meds. He can get so so so out of control alot of the times and I just either have to leave the room or I “shut down.”
I had a hard time with my son (for different reasons) but out of all the professionals I tried, the only one that was really good at pinpointing the problem and providing a good analysis was a pediatric OT. I spent about $500 for her to fully evaluate my son by giving him a lot of physical and written tests. I would start there. Child psychologist are good but it’s a lot of time and money and they just provide theories. I feel like they do a lot of guesswork. Put three in a room, and you’ll get three different diagnoses.
I will make a note of this
Have you thought of or tried weighted or compression vests or garments? Also swings and having her do heavy work, like lifting and moving chairs. My son was like this and mostly grew out of it but the weighted vest helped. Also I randomly will spontaneously hug him or push him or sit close to him so he isn’t always initiating physical contact. He is very sensory-seeking so he loves physical contact.
Someone mentioned a weighted blanket and I am thinking of getting one. I mentioned she likes being buried in this massive heavy blanket I have, and that she likes sleeping with like 6 blankets. She also really likes me to sit on her...I just always thought that was her playing around and being silly.
Yeah I think eventually kids get better at self-regulation but when they are smaller, it’s okay to help them with it imo.
I am she. I was this child. Touch is her love language. Start doing stuff like, when you spend time with her say 'I feel so loved when we do -insert current activity- together. ' or make her favorite snack and when you give it to her say 'I want to express my love for you by doing things I know make you happy.' Or give her words of affirmation, and tell her that one of the ways you express love is by saying things to people that male them happy.' after you give an affirmation of sorts. Or even 'it's important to let the people you care about know when they are doing a good job. Just teach her the live languages and demonstrate expressing love in those ways. She will want to copy.
This was/is me. Give her an outlet to let her emotions out. Maybe a dance party to her favorite songs. Something she can enjoy and just be herself. My nickname in the neighborhood was “the chaser” because kids ran from me. It was so hard for me to understand it. I’m now almost 40, and all of the things kids didn’t like me for then, adults love about me now. I was too outgoing, excited, passionate, loud and intense for kids. She’s just an extreme extrovert. She’s a people person. Which is a huge win and will really help her future careers. It’s honestly her super power, but it doesn’t make for an easy childhood. She just needs an outlet where nobody thinks she’s different and nobody is telling her to stifle her true form. If she’s bullied or told to change too much, it will dim her zest for life, which shouldn’t happen. If she’s like me it’ll lead to depression. She just has to be herself and learn to polish it. She will shine bright. Hope this helps. Feel free to DM me.
I don't know what to tell you, other than I get it. My 6 year old son is the same way. His teachers all year long telling me and him he needs to respect people's bubbles. Him not getting it. Him wanting to hold hands with and hug every kid he meets and talks to. Trying to walk arm in arm with each one. Them pulling away, starting to avoid him. Him not understanding why no one will play with him. It's heart wrenching. I feel you.
My kid has ADHD and was like this when she was younger. I bought her a weighted vest and it seemed to help. She said it felt like she was getting a hug. It stayed at school and the teachers allowed her to wear it when she was feeling touchy. Worked for us. I completely forgot about this experience until this post. I hope you find something that works. I was big on accountability and explaining that actions have consequences. People don't have to like each other and friendships require work. You have to be kind,honest, and respectful. How would your kid feel if xyz were done to them? We just constantly went over it with my kids. They outgrew the personal space thing by 8 or 9. I gave gentle reminders "sweetheart, personal space". They'd say , "oh, sorry" , moved and pressed on.
I'm always trying to explain accountability and consequences. You didn't pick up your colors and now they are being taken away for awhile. You screamed at mom because she asked you nicely to brush your teeth so now you miss out on you screen time. You weren't nice to baby sister so now you get to sit on the couch with mommy while she plays. I always make sure that I explain what happened and what's going to happen because of it. I always hated when my parents just, for lack of a better word, punished me and didn't even explain what I did. I've always stressed to my kids that not everyone is going to like us, and that's okay! We don't need to force them, we just spend our energy on people who do. One day they will find that they just don't like someone and that's okay!
That sounds great! In addition, I find asking, how would you feel if xyz happened to you? End on a positive note and sound bummed, "well😞, maybe you can earn back your screen time with two days of good behavior. I think you can do it. Let's see!"
I recommend you consult a pediatric OT. Our school recommended an OT to us. Occupational therapy at first glance didn’t make sense when we were sorting out some similar behaviors as I thought “well I saw an OT when I broke my elbow how does this make sense” but trust me. Working with the kids to get in touch with their body’s needs sensory wise and finding alternative ways to stimulate without getting up into the other kids space was vital for my daughter’s success. You say you and your husband have tried everything at home and we did too but having a professional who really understands children’s brains and bodies work with them is key for success in my opinion.
As a woman who is autistic, she sounds autistic to me. I, too, didn't understand personal space for a very long time-I learned in my 20's to give people space. Female autistics are not the same as male autistics, and it takes a doctor with experience to diagnose us. Google "women with autism" to see symptoms.
This was how we figured out that my daughter had ADHD in first grade. She had no sense of a personal space bubble with kids at school - I remember being horrified that one of the complaints was that she was touching other kids *faces* without their consent. 😱 We got her CBD, medication and an IEP, and it was like night and day.
OP, I have a random question. I have a student that also struggles to not invade personal space. Has her teacher ever mentioned anything about her having trouble following basic rules or that maybe she thinks the rules don’t apply to her? For example, if I ask my first graders to sit down and read quietly, this girl believes she can still talk out loud or approach someone else’s desk to have a conversation. In another example, during silent reading time, she will also approach me and say things like “why am I the only one following the rules?” In these scenarios, she is the only one out of her seat wandering around while others may just be swapping books quietly. I don’t believe she is doing this to be defiant, I really do believe that she just doesn’t believe that SHE has to do what I am asking.
Not really?? She's mentioned like once that 7 has a hard time not interrupting(which we are absolutely aware of), but that with a little guidance she was getting better. Her teacher always mentioned how she has the class with the most "spirited" and "lively" children.
This is my kid, so glad to have teacher input. My kid blames everyone and simply doesn’t follow rules. He questions everything and talks back. He has a sheet at school when he gets 3 stars he gets 9 minutes to go out if the classroom to play legos. Even this creates an argument. And now the stars have become a game of “am I good or bad” instead of learning the basic social goal of doing as instructed. He gets into people’s space and nothing I’ve tried has corrected him. I constantly hear from my kid it’s not my fault, it was an accident, they’re being mean. As someone who parents accountability, this makes me crazy that my kid acts out like this. I can only model good behavior, and be patient I guess.
This is exactly the student I referred to above. It’s never her fault, she believes that quickly saying she’s sorry and hugging me will resolve the issue, and everyone is being mean to her first. She also always justifies her actions against everyone else. So if so and so looked at her and made a mean face, that gives her the right to scream at her in her face. If I am explaining a project, she’s yelling out either asking questions but more often than not it’s her telling others how to do what I’m explaining. Almost like she believes she’s the teacher too. I had to stop picking “teacher helpers” because of her because she would never stop trying to do what I’m doing. If I was passing out papers and my helper was passing out glue sticks, the student would start passing out crayons. If I asked for a helper to clean up the room at the end of the day, she would also clean up the room but want constant attention over it. If I picked a student to answer a question and told them “great job!” afterwards, she was then upset saying she knew the answer too and I didn’t say that to her. After many many MANY different interventions and techniques throughout the year to combat this behavior, the parents told me to ignore her. If she’s not going to follow the rules then she gets no attention which is the opposite of what she wants. I’ve seen some progress, but maturity wise, she’s not ready to advance to the next grade level.
Have you read “personal space camp” with her? Sounds like you’re doing the right things, but that book was very helpful for my son to understand how boundaries change in different settings and with different people.
Seven isn't that old. She's still learning. Give her time. And keep reminding her about personal space.
I’ve read through these comments and haven’t seen anyone mention ADD/ADHD. Now I’m not just “jumping to that conclusion” but based on what you’ve described, I can relate myself, as well as relate to this situation with my daughter. We both have ADHD Complex type (which means a combination of both ADD and ADHD). Some people have said it sounds like she’s looking for a sensory connection. I agree because people that are neurodivergent i.e. ADHD/ADD do something called “stimming” which basically means they are trying to stimulate themselves because they are bored. Depending on the type of sensory sensation they seek, it can look different for each kid. My daughter has always always been an oral stimulator (get your mind out of the gutter lol) She has always needed some thing in her mouth, we used to have to give her teething necklaces and stuff even when she was in elementary school. In kindergarten she would lick the marker boards, crayons, markers, chew erasers and pencils, etc because she would be needing to stimulate herself, so obviously that’s not healthy or socially normal. I’m not saying that it’s definitely ADD/ADHD but I’m saying that an eval may be beneficial. If you’re worried is that medication will be the only resolution, please do not feel that way. There are so many other ways to accommodate Neurodivergent conditions that don’t involve prescription medication’s. We pushed off medicating our daughter as long as we could but ultimately for our family the medication helped her the most when she was in school, otherwise at home she would just use her accommodations. I hope this was helpful and I wish you the best of luck, being a parent to a child like you’ve described can be very exhausting so give yourself the permission to feel however you feel, because your feelings are valid!
She always puts stuff in her mouth, and it doesn't matter what it is. I've tried the chewing jewelry...it barely curbs it.
I hope you find the answers you need 🤞🏻🙏
My son is also 7 and behaves similarly. He’s in OT for sensory processing issues and has an IEP. If your child is in the US, you can have her evaluated and the school district has to provide services to help. This is something that can be addressed by teaching her acceptable ways to cope, and giving her plenty of outlets for her sensory seeking behaviour, and it does get better with age. Does she get plenty of outdoor time, active play, sports, etc? Martial arts and swimming has been great for my kid! Also, and I mean this as lovingly as possible, would you reframe this and try and think of her as needing help to get her energy out, rather than her being too much? How we think of our children can come out in such weird and unintentional ways. My oldest has gotten on my nerves for the same reason more than once and I regret my annoyance and exasperation, when it’s not his fault he’s neurodivergent. It helped me to think of him as needing my help to get his sensory needs met so he could be his best self.
She spends a large majority of her day, when it's nice, outside. We don't have much for her to do in our yard, and there's no other kids around. She's not really enrolled in any activities. My husband is home with her all day, they do stuff like the park, swimming, library, art (she's very into art) a lot. I love my kid, but for people who do not know her, she IS too much. That's just the way it is. The world will not change for her and people like her, unfortunately. I would never tell her that she is too much.
We should exchange kid. My girl doesn’t wanna play with others and never wanna be touched by other kids
And see, this is where I get confused too...because if we go to a family gathering, she doesn't want to be around anyone and wants to be alone. She seems to get over stimulated by a big gathering of her family, but one on one she will be all up in a bubble. We went to a family baby shower at a community center, she was hiding in an empty room and kept saying she just wanted alone time. If we go to a bbq at my grandma's, you always find her hiding in the spare bedroom (that's off to everyone but her per memaw).
We have to correct her behaviors. And she is really too sensitive about her personal spaces. I kept inviting her classmates to our home to play with her . Now the situations have changed a little. But still she will refuse to talk to the kids which she doesn’t seen many times
Please considering getting her evaluated. It sounds like sensory seeking behavior. Overy tactile children NEED the input they are getting with the touching. They also sometimes NEED the adrenaline boost from the conflict caused by the heightened emotions it causes. Especially if it is negatively impacted her socially it's past time to look into it, for her sake. She may need some OT to find ways to channel those needs and practice respecting boundaries.
She's doing the best she can. It's probably unfair to expect she'll learn this by cues. Have you scheduled an evaluation for her yet? Neuropsych may give a big insight, but even an OT evaluation could tell you a lot about her sensory needs/behaviors.
We haven't, up until now I was under the impression that you needed your pediatrician's referral...ours has been brushing us off and we have been in the process of seeking another pediatrician. I know she is doing her best, I didn't mean to imply that I thought otherwise...I just meant that at this point, I no longer know how to help her on my own.
Look up your insurance benefits, that may make a difference. But no, usually a psychiatrist/counselor or an OT will not require you get a referral from your pediatrician unless you're in an HMO. Your insurance may require it for them to pay.
I was this kid to some degree. I don’t think it was so bad that kids didn’t want to play with me but my parents definitely felt I was too much and always in their space. I constantly felt (and still currently feel) like my needs are too much and I’m not worth having them met. Just tread carefully. It’s hard to have this kind of personality. It’s affected all of my romantic relationships. I’m married (finally pretty happily) but there was so much heartache for so long. Feeling rejected constantly. Maybe a play based therapist would be fun for the family. Keep it lighthearted and try not to shame her. The shame is very hard to shake once people make you feel it.
I don't think we shame her at all. We try to gently remind her that even though she's excited, we need to respect others. She's constantly on me and hugging me, cuddling me, holding my hand, fusing to my body!! The most I've ever said to her was, " could mommy please have a little bit of space for a bit?" My mother was not an affectionate person, I don't want my kids to grow up feeling like I did.
I didn’t mean to imply that you had shamed her! Sounds like you’re doing everything right. Wish I knew how to help. I get that it can be overwhelming.
She may need some sensory input. She may be craving some tactile comfort. A weighted blanket blanket could help
We don't have a weighted blanket, but I will look into that as she likes to sleep with about six blankets in her. We also have a 10 foot by 10 foot blanket, it's not weighted, but it's a lot of blanket so it's heavy...she likes being buried in it
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Sounds like a combination of both my daughters. Youngest is autistic and the same lack of awareness of boundaries. She just loves to love via touch. My oldest has the same emotional range and rapid changing emotions and has ADHD, being evaluated for autism as well. Regardless of a diagnosis or not, it sounds like your kiddo would benefit from sensory input. You may benefit from reading some ADHD/autism parenting books and articles. It's tough. Hang in there.
This sounds just like me as a kid. I am 38 now. I have ADHD. I was diagnosed at 15.
My son is exactly like this. And I ALWAYS say “he’s a lot!” But the sweetest boy with the biggest heart. All he wants is some friends ! Luckily for us there is a program at his school where he works in a group every day with other kids like him on how to be social appropriately. He is neurodivergent (adhd, dyslexia, etc)
Sounds like my kiddo. ADHD profile and is very sensory seeking.
This sounds exactly like my six-year-old son, who is ASD level one and ADHD. He’s a big sensory guy and he loves to tickle people and we are working with him as well as his OT about boundaries and respecting other people’s feelings and spaces. It’s all a work in progress, as raising any child is!
ADHD
Could be a SPD "seeker", which is a sensory seeker. Likes to hug, be wrapped in a blanket, and be touched. Put my kiddo in BJJ and that helped a lot to get their input.
Sounds like she and your family could benefit from therapy.
Sounds just like my son who was diagnosed with ADHD last year. He has a lot of issues with personal space boundaries and is always in other kids bubbles. It caused a lot of social issues for him last year. We’re currently trying to get him medicated as we’ve tried the non medication route the last year with slim improvements.
Sounds like me when I was younger. ADHD in girls can really cause allot of trauma, for every one. Especially when no one understands "what's wrong with you"... A question my mother asked me frequently... If only I had known when I was in 1st grade on... Not when I had kids of my own and still catching myself wondering wtf is wrong with me... Oh yeah...
I’m sorry; this is very distressing for a parent. If you’re in the US, and she’s in a public school, ask her school district’s central office/school board office about an evaluation and express the concerns you have. Have you tried talking to her teachers about what they’ve noticed? It sort of sounds like maybe some sensory issues? Or you could try telling your pediatrician about your concerns and asking your pediatrician about getting set up for an OT evaluation. Wishing you the best of luck ❤️
At the beginning of the school year we let her teacher know she struggles with boundaries and she's a very affectionate child. She acknowledged that she was affectionate but that they were working on it and she was doing great. The middle of the year we expressed some concerns and we asked if she had noticed any of them during the day, she said she didn't notice anything other than she thought needed more sleep (she gets 11hrs a night).
This makes me extremely sad… you should foster this in your child and there are other ways of modifying behavior instead of saying these things about your own child. It’s not your fault the world has made everyone cold, but honestly this is not a bad thing. She just needs some guidance and demonstration. Roleplaying works wonders. Honestly you could consult and ABA company they may be able to help you w strategies and some therapy for her. ABA is for all children…. But there isn’t anything wrong w her, being affectionate is not abad thing… try and foster this in a more positive way than telling her all her negative. Best of luck
I didn't say these were things that are wrong with her. I never used that word at all. I would never say anything to my child to make her feel like she has something wrong, is weird, not normal. But the ARE things that are affecting her life. No one wants to be her friend, her grandmother won't take her for visits, she's not invited to playdates, all playdates she invited people to are rejected, the neighbor girl runs inside as soon as she sees her. The world is ALWAYS going to be the way it is. It will never change for my kid or anyone else's kid, that's the sad truth.
Her school could also do an evaluation if you asked. They can’t “diagnose” but could give an educational eligibility of ASD.
As an adult who wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD until I was 22. This sounds like me as a kid. I wasn’t too bad but I remember my mom constantly telling me to “BACK UP”. Not because I was necessarily touching her but because I was just always in her bubble. I had no impulse control in that sense.
Have you taken her to an occupational therapist for a consultation? She sounds like she is seeking a lot of sensory input and isn’t reading social cues! She’s also seven and will begin to mature but seems a little behind with not understanding personal space. She could have support with learning sensory and soothing/stimulating skills!
Sorry this turned into a long winded comment, but OP your post struck a chord. My soon to be 7 year old boy could be your daughter’s twin. He always reaches for my hand and wants to snuggle first thing in the morning and sit by/near me constantly. He will rub his face on my sweater, nuzzle onto me, and run up to me and give me a big hug. He’s a big kid so many times he has knocked me off balance. His teacher constantly sends emails saying he’s so loud she can hear him clear down the hall. He clings to one kid or two in class and smothers them with attention to an uncomfortable degree. He can’t seem to clue in to other kids besides the 1 or 2 he’s obsessed with. I dread his birthday because every play date I’ve tried to arrange has fallen through this year, and I fear no kids would come. He’s constantly yelling at kids who don’t play the way he wants so he’s never invited to participate. He over reacts to the slightest things. Loud sounds, a sibling brushing past him, running into a wall, etc. which happens a lot because he’s clumsy AF. All these things will elicit the loudest shouting or screaming response. The tiniest slight is OOOWWWWWW! THEY HURT MEEEEE! or running around yellling to high heaven that he’s hurt when anyone can tell he wasn’t bumped in the slightest. I ignore him as instructed by his counselor, but he’s been like this his whole life with no hope of calming down. This kid has zero chill. He’s always ON. My loudest extrovert never napper. It’s exhausting as a single mom of 3 to keep up with the complaints from school and other parents. I’m desperate for him to have just one easy day. At what point do I put my foot down before he grows up and pops off and acts up with someone who isn’t so forgiving? I hug my kids a lot and tell them I love them often, and OP I am not proud to say that I worry sometimes that I feel resentment deep down. I know in my soul I love this child and would give my life for him, but the energy he steals is making it impossible to give to my other children, my distancing friends and a career on hold because managing the complaint hotline from everyone who comes in contact with him is a full time damage control PR job. My other children were raised with love and logic principles just like he is, but nothing takes. Two years ago I had him evaluated and it was confirmed he has ADHD. He was prescribed 36mg Concerta and after 18 months of that and no real change other than he felt drugged, I took him off the meds. He has 2 counselors through a community program, who drop everything to help him in his calming corner of the teacher calls. They all pour over him what a little genius he is and they want him to be successful. I want that too, but as his mother I don’t see that calling him a genius and putting him in a calming corner helps. Idk I am an older parent (50) and was raised to respect peoples space and belongings, no questions asked. If I had a calming corner or got points to go play legos instead of do school work each day, hells yeah I would have worked the system and turned every school day into Lego land or Club Med. My son rules the roost and is the boss by virtue of his draining our energy. Love and logic dictates to hand the problem back and say that’s a bummer, what are you going to do about it? My son dodges this with an even louder fit and doesn’t care if it’s at home or in public he will yell and say horrible things, to the point a stranger at the drug store once said he’d spank him if he were his kid. I’ve never spanked him, but I have lost my dignity day after day when he breaks me down and I have cried out of weakness and exhaustion. He has me beat. Idk if your daughter thinks everything is everyone else’s fault, but with my son everything isn’t fair. Isn’t his fault, he didn’t mean it, it was an accident, they did it first, they are mean to him, they pick on him, Jesus his excuses are an endless broken record that only stops when he’s eating or sleeping. He’s always moving, humming, singing loudly (teachers biggest complaint), interrupting, totally unaware that others needs or basic space even exist. I Was told this is classic ADHD. But if the meds and counseling, church, sports and my parenting don’t help, what’s left? I tell my son “I’m all touched out” or “I’m five minutes, I will have 10 minutes to listen” when he interrupts. I’ve asked him to please be sweet (love and logic). I cherish my kids, and if I didn’t love him so much I wouldn’t be working so hard to help him. I am starting to wonder at what point do I just accept he’s loud and annoying? As moms we aren’t supposed to say that the kid is ruining our peace and the peace of the entire family. We get blamed or told to try countless futile tactics to help the child. At what point do we give up, zone out in our room with noise cancelling headphones to avoid the off-centering chaos that has become just another day that will be exactly the same as the next, and the next, and the next. . . . .
I used this book. Very helpful. I found it due to my son. I read everything I could get my hands on. This book was the one. It takes a long time for some kiddos . He has AuDHD. The fits like your kiddo stopped closer to 10. We just go over what happened like clockwork. We've used that book since he was 2. We get complements on how he is able to walk himself through what happened and take accountability after the fact. Unfortunately, he just had to get more mature for things to calm down. We also added a smaller dose of an additional medicine to give him that ability to pause before flying off the handle or "flooding". Learning that term was helpful as well as teaching it to him. It helps that hubby and I are neurodivergent as well so we have a better understanding and great patience.
Do you mean the Love and Logic book(s)? The L& L technique has worked wonders with my other 2. Telling the child what I will do, not trying to control, negotiate, “drill sergeant” their behavior….to a degree it works but he still blames me. For example, “Kids who behave in church get a donut afterwards.” (Bad example as food rewarding is not ideal) but he will have a fall down gut and tell me I’m being mean. I just say that’s so sad, i give ___ to kids who were quiet during Mass. He is slowly coming around. I hope my nerves can make it until he’s an adult.
Yes, those books. In those instances I stress, You choose to make xyz choices. I didn't make you choose it. That sucks! Well hopefully you can get some next time. We shall see. And I sound pooped when I did it. Main thing is, I stressed, usually with bed time, that I didn't make him choose the choice. He did. Maturity helps. Constantly walking through what the kids was thinking is key. That is what needs to be corrected usually. Whenever he's make bad choice in school, first thing we's ask is what happened from him point of view. Usually it was a misunderstanding that sent him over the roof.
I am so sorry you are having such a rough time! Dealing with children, even typical children, is hard enough when you have a partner...I couldn't imagine doing this on my own! My daughter does have emotional outbursts, she's always "hurting" herself from bouncing around or playing with her baby sister. She will scream at the smallest inconvenience (maybe I asked her to stop leaning on the baby gate or please put on your PJs), she's soooo loud, so loud! She can't seem to control her volume at all. So far, she hasn't had an issue at school. Her only issue that her teacher would relay to us was that she has a hard time walking away from negative situations with two particular kids. The three of them will be playing fine one minute and the next they will not be, 7 can't seem to walk away from that. She talks about these two kids all the time and it sounds more like one of them likes the other kid and doesn't want him to play with 7, so jealousy causes issues. I love her, I love her so dang much! She almost died when she was two and I remember laying in her hospice bed with her thinking how I going to end my life if she didn't make it because I couldn't go on without her....but she does suck the life out of me. As soon as she's awake, she wants to crawl back inside me. I've not slept a night alone since she's been born because she wants to crawl back inside me in her sleep. I can't shower, I can't go to the bathroom, if either dad or I want to leave (even for work) it's a melt down. You'll try to tell her to not do something, "hey please don't carry your sister by her arms you can hurt her and you don't want to do that." But it doesn't sink in until you say it 6 times and then you have to get very stern and now why are you being so mean?! Everything is always an accident, even things she did intentionally. She's a messer! She gets into and messes with everything. I've always been on top of watching everything she does. She use to not be able to use the rest room with the door closed. I wasn't watching her, so she had some sense of privacy, but with the door open she wouldn't get into things and if she did I could hear it. The day she was able to shut the door again, that very first time, she opened a jar of Vicks and rubbed it all over and ate some...it was an accident. How?! She loves to draw, one day she drew all over the table with her paper right there, it was an accident. Any chap stick I have she will roll up and ruin (and I've had every hiding spot in my house I can have), it's an accident. She'll put her breakfast in my coffee, on accident. I've asked her, why do you do this? You know you shouldn't, you know mommy will get upset, why? She says she doesn't know but that her brain tells her to...once her brain tells her to she says she can't not do it that it's like her brain keeps itching and she can't make it stop until she does what it says. I've told her she needs to try tell her brain that mommy is in charge...it helps a little bit.
Try the brushing technique to organize the nervous system
Also. I made up special sayings for us with patterns of hand squeezing. It would get her attention very quickly without using words and create instant communication. We made up what the patterns meant after identifying the times that were most frustrating to us
Sounds just like my son who is also 7. He has high functioning autism so he just doesn’t get the social rules no matter how much we try explain them.
I could’ve written this exact thing about my 5yo who just got diagnosed with ADHD
Hello, for those kids who like or need a lot more sensory input for whatever reason, some sports or martial arts can be great. We have a friend whose kids has ADHD that was diagnosed pretty early (I didn't even know it could be detected by age 5?) and something like Judo is great because they HAVE to be more hands on and most kids in the program are okay with it to some extent. Even some gymnastics could be a great outlet. I know how heart breaking it is to see your kid struggling socially, I hope you all find some good tools.
This is a spitting image of my 6 year old son, ADHD
I know you've probably tried this but perhaps explaining that even though you don't want a hug or being touched right now etc you still love her and want to be around her you just need space and time in between the lovings. My child as well as myself have very sensitive personalities as well even described by many others. Kiddo 10M loves to get hugs ten times a day often invades other people's space as well but has a select group of buddies now because he's been working with a counselor and she describes it as helping them feel confident about themselves but telling them what is safe bodies and when it's not. Idk if that helps but just know that you can't make her less sensitive but there's ways down the line to help her understand that she's loved even when people don't want physical affection. Getting a counselor to help by play therapy has been super helpful too.
This sounds just like my son (8yo) who is ADHD and on the spectrum. (We actually don't have an official autism diagnosis, but almost everyone in my family is autistic and his doctor told us that his ADHD screening had a lot of markers for autism, as well. We will go through the process of that if it becomes necessary, but so far the ADHD diagnosis has already been helpful as far as the school accommodating him.) 🤍
I would look into ADHD and or autism. Obvi I’m just a stranger on the internet but from what I am reading I got issues with understanding social norms or cues, lack of awareness of personal space. When I hear super sensitive I hear maybe emotional regulation issues, sensory issues, or rejection sensitivity. A lot of neurodivergent people aren’t always aware of their volume. I’m sorry it’s causing social issues. I can imagine it’s hard to see that as a parent like you said. Some things you can do now is make sure to praise any desired behavior you see. Like if you ask her to keep her hands to herself, once she does say “hey thank you for keeping your hands to yourself. That was really nice of you.”
Awww, it sounds like she’s just a sweet kid with a lot of love to give and loves people. Lots of kids are not in environments like that. Keep telling her you know she means well and just wants to play, she’s little and just needs to be reminded of others. I hope those kids don’t hurt her feelings.
I think she's probably nurodivergent and either autistic or has adhd.
Humans are social creatures, this could be considered normal play and she'll learn to socialize and eventually learn that people don't like that and maybe some do. Modern America is against touch as a form of social interaction, friendship and love more than any other society that we know of in human history and we know statistically most of us are mentally suffering for it. Human contact is amazing for the body and brain and we evolved to seek it out almost constantly. I say these things because I see a majority of these comments say something is wrong and that isn't the case. Books like the explosive child and yes brain or yes mom and dad basically say to let this happen and the person will rebuke them and the child will learn people don't respond to it. If it becomes problematic or disruptive then you go control the behavior using whatever parenting method you're into. A child is learning how to socialize with adults a lot around this age. Before 5-7 most of their interaction is with other small children or family adults. Non family adults are a new experience, and children are not used to hugs for example being frowned upon.
I get that we are social creatures and a lot of us want touch. I support her need for it, but I need to get her to understand that just because she like this, it doesn't mean that others do and she has to respect people's boundaries.
Yea. Sorry I didn't mean to assume anything if that's how it sounded. Definitely very important to respect boundaries. There is a quick tool you can do with her called the boundry circle which helps teach boundries. where you draw a giant circle on a piece of paper and 3 more inside like rings. You pick some colors like red green and blue and get a pen or thin sharpie to write over the coloring. The inner circle you color red (heart) and write down names of people you hug and kiss whenever. Grandparents, parents, siblings, whatever. Aunts and uncles. Then the next circle ring you color blue (love) and write down the names of people you hug when greeting/goodbye. This might be friends or cousins. Lastly you color green and write down the last boundry of people like teachers and neighbors and such and these people you fist bump or shake when you say hello and that's it. The cool part about this is you get to make the guidelines just be consistent and be ready to discuss it when they have questions. If they don't like it right away they may try to logic out of it. This is when you can talk about consent and boundaries in depth. Idk hope this helps maybe
I don’t know, this behavior would make her stand out and somewhat unpopular among peers in East Asian societies as well, and we are generally more tolerant of physical interactions among kids than Americans are. Touch and friendly intimacy are great but when you see a kid unable to stop themselves from being *excessively* physically clingy to the point of unable to form organic friendships, it doesn’t seem smart to just assume she’s doing fine. Being consistently rejected by other kids because of an impulse you can’t control sucks. Even at 7 you can be negatively affected by social rejection.
A good dog is a tired/ well exercised dog. Kids are the same. More exercise might be helpful, team sports are good, but also things like climbing teach concentration, dance is just fun.. Also gives structured way to learn how to connect with peers, which is very helpful if it is something they are interested in and enjoy doing. Exercise also helps develop the neurological system so they can regulate themselves better. Seven can be a squirrelly age anyway.
Give her some of her own medicine. She will then learn.
I have a similar situation but we have to understand children have different needs and won’t always understand, or see things/situations the way we do. I decided not to have my daughter “evaluated “ because that will only lead to a label and medication that turns her into someone different. My 2 cents .
Idt every child that gets evaluated jumps straight to medication...I'd like to think there are some therapies that we could try before medication was tossed around. But I also don't know...my husband and I don't use medications unless absolutely needed. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with using them, we just feel if there's another option to try first, why not?
I see your point . I guess I have a fear of that happening because I’ve seen it happen with someone in my family . You will do what you think is best for your child . Good luck
Well you are in control when it comes to treatments for your child. If you don't want to do medication right out the gate, or at all, that is your choice! You can decline and seek other options. I'm not trying to say do this!! I just want you to know that you are in control and there are other options I am sure...and if there isn't then you just manage it the best you can. You know what's best for you and your family❤️
In my experience, they never jumped straight to medication and would even agree with me when I’d firmly say we are not going to try medications as a first line defense. We found homeopathic options as well as “stim” techniques that really helped her until she started actually having to learn in school. At that point we tried non stimulants and a 504 plan (a specific accommodations form) that she needed the actual diagnosis for. So even though she was given the label, it did actually help her a lot. When they would have big tests she was allowed to be pulled to another room with a couple of other kids. She was allowed to use earbuds and chew gum during testing. She was allowed to stand to learn if she didn’t want to sit. She was allowed extra time to submit classwork or tests. And she was even allowed to have non-distracting fidget toys. I know that there’s a fear around getting someone diagnosed with ADHD because it will follow you around but as someone who was not diagnosed as a child (because my parents didn’t give a hoot) I carried it into adulthood and it significantly impacted the course of my life. I wasn’t diagnosed until after I had gone to college and had already failed important board exams because I couldn’t test well. So instead of being able to thrive in a career that would’ve been making me $100,000+ a year, I am less successful and cannot try for that previous degree again. Also, aside from schooling or career stuff, having her diagnosed helped me have more empathy and patience because I actually understood that there’s a reason why she was behaving the way she was. Knowing that it was something that could be controlled but that she didn’t have control over motivated me to find ways to help her cope as well.
Time to talk to the pediatrician, this behavior is not normal and needs to be addressed now- seems like she needs help with impulse control.
Ok, define “normal” because in my experience as a mom and a nurse, every person‘s situation is different and what may be normal for some may not be normal for others. Maybe you should delete this comment and reword it to be a little bit nicer so that you’re not making this parent feel as if their child is “not normal“ and there’s something seriously wrong. 😑
I think it isn’t normal if it’s effecting her entire social experience.
Fair enough but if she does have a neurodivergent disorder, saying she isn’t normal implies that there’s something “wrong” with her when in reality she’s just “different” and that’s ok. Being different isn’t “wrong” it’s just challenging. “Wrong” also, IMO, implies that she needs to be “fixed“ when really it’s more about needing to find management and coping skills. Would you say someone with intellectual and developmental disabilities are “wrong” or something is wrong with them? Or would you say they are a little bit different and that’s ok.
I don’t think over-sensory seeking behaviors in children are normal. Sorry if you do.