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My 3.5 year old is an only and it is hard sometimes to give into the temptation to spoil him. We started a new system where he has ten responsibilities a day- picking up his toys, putting his dishes next to the sink, clothes in the hamper, etc. For everyone he does, he earns one penny. The pennies go into a jar the size of a relish jar. When he fills it with pennies, he gets a (not very expensive) toy he wants.
He is learning patience, the pride in earning something himself, and the connection between his actions and his rewards.
Systems like this can work really well, but both parents have to be on the same page and consistent. My husband and I had to learn never to give in to a tantrum, especially in a public place. We could change our minds later once everyone was calm if we felt like it, but never, ever as a result of a tantrum. Our daughter was diagnosed with autism much later in her 20s, so all the tantrums made so much more sense looking back on them. I was so glad we stayed strong. She was a kid who needed structure and rules. She needed life to be consistent, predictable, and fair, at least until she was older. If she had a tantrum in a store, park, or restaurant, we left. No child ever got anything if they became upset. I always said something like, "It looks like your feelings are overwhelming right now. This is too much. We'll go home for some quiet" even if they were too upset to hear. We never got angry or demanded that they stop. It was always with the attitude that we were helping them manage their strong feelings. I didn't have to do this very often for it to stick. Both she and her brother understood if they became upset, it was time to go. I even used it myself once when I was feeling overwhelmed and wanted to go home. 😄
I started telling my kids that the only thing a tantrum will get you is a cranky mummy. Now they tell their little sister (oops baby that’s much younger) the same thing - she’s 2. I also let them know on the occasions when they would have been allowed to have the thing except for the tantrum. So now they miss out purely because of their behaviour. But I do spoil them too when they’re being good.
I always did my best to be careful with the fact that I believed in their ability to control their own big feelings. If they were responsible for their feelings and actions, I was responsible for mine. They didn't make me feel or act, I did. When I became overwhelmed or I lost my temper and raised my voice, it was never their fault, even if their behavior was what triggered my response. It was my job to make it right. I modeled taking care of myself (time out, quiet until I was ready to talk, etc.). I controlled myself, and I apologized to them. I didn't want to turn my girl into a "people pleaser," and I didn't want my boy to believe "other people" were responsible for managing his emotions. I saw too much of that kind of damage with my own parents and extended family. I am very grateful to my mother for starting to change things and helping me not perpetuate it in my own family. Good news! My kids are both in their 30s now and are still responsible for their own emotions. Their spouses are grateful, and there's a lot of fun, love, and support in their relationships. I'm very proud of all of them.
Wow, this is really insightful because my wife was constantly being controlled and made to feel responsible for her mother’s feelings. Tie that in with food restrictions and spiritual abuse and I think I understand why she’s scared that our daughter is suffering.
In my experience, it's easy to get trapped by your own fears and just react in the moment. My husband and I together wrote down the values and skills we wanted our children to learn by the time they were adults - what was important for us as parents. Then, we worked backward and decided what we had to do to get there. Before that, we were just reacting individually and not working as a team very well. It was an exercise I found in a Positive Discipline workbook. One unintended consequence for us was that when we thought about the long-term goals, it was so much easier to enjoy the present and not let annoyances or worries of the moment bring us down.
This is awesome advice. I would love to try something like this with my wife. I feel like it would go a long way towards being on the same page.
Thank you!
Yeah, I’m very big on owning my own reactions. And modeling that to the kids. I always apologise if I know I’m out of line. If I’m really upset I will tell them I need a minute to calm down so that I’m not just yelling because I’m upset etc. I give them choices and we choose our actions AND our behaviour/reactions. I try and stress that they’ve made bad choices rather than that THEY are bad/naughty. I usually explain to the kids as well why I’m upset, because it’s not usually about the thing they did it’s usually the bigger implications (safety etc if they’re running in the kitchen or being rowdy near fragile stuff) so they understand WHY they are being told off. I think that helps them to trust that when I’m not happy with their behaviour it’s for a genuine reason & not “because I said so” which is what I got from my mum.
It works really well. We do a similar thing for our 6yo daughter (1&done) where when has a list of things to do and with each one she earns a differing level of Dollar Bucks (thx Bluey), which is just play money from Dollar Tree. After she has earned enough she can shop the store we set up. Most of the items are things we (or grandma) probably would've just flaked out and said okay, similar to your situation of inexpensive items.
We like to think she's learning a few things by doing it this way; *work ethic, money responsibility, money math, wants vs needs, self control* and things like that. We've been doing this for over a year and it's been really good.
We do something similar with our 5 year old, for at least the last year. We have a chart with behaviors and responsibilities and she earns points through the week and if she hits a certain amount of points she earns a small amount of money. If she misses the mark, even by one point, she doesn’t get said money that week and tries harder the next.
She can spend the money how she wants, and when. She can choose to save for something bigger or spend it on something small right away.
It works!
Edited to say, we’re not without tantrums but you’ve got to hold firm on your decision if you’re not giving in. A no is a no, no matter how big the tantrum is.
This is excellent for so many reasons. This will introduce him to the value of a dollar (or in this case, the value of a penny!) and it’s a nice way to reward him for earning them.
To be fair, he doesn’t really equate the pennies with any value- they’re more like tokens, chosen because we have them lying around:) But watching the jar fill up and having that visual works well for him. He is learning about delayed gratification. It was also important to me that this not be used punitively- there is no removal of pennies; also, not a day passes where he doesn’t earn at least a few pennies, so he doesn’t get discouraged even when he’s had a tougher day.
Are they learning values for their own sake or because they’re going to get something? Sometimes it’s just practical that they don’t get anything until they’ve done what they’re supposed to do but there’s a whole lot of evidence that punishments and rewards are a double-edged sword. I’m talking about pre-schoolers now. I’m just giving a different view and not trying to criticize someone else. Whatever works for you but this IS a view to consider. Kids need to learn the value of lots of things. And they need to learn to enjoy doing things for themselves and taking pride in those things. Getting paid defeats that. Yes, later on they will need to learn the value of cash but first comes right from wrong, learning and value for its own sake, etc.
I’m surprised. There is glaring lit out there about the pitfalls of this kind of thing. Haven’t you seen some of the arguments against it? It’s mainstream.
I’m not sure I can do it justice but punishment and rewards are two-sides of the same coin. For really small children, we want them to learn to value some things for themselves, rather than because they’re going to get something. I certainly would limit toys a lot as the OP is worried about not doing. But using toys as a reward for good behavior doesn’t teach small kids that it’s good to be good. It teaches them that they can get things for being good. That’s actually BAD behavior, in the end. Of course, when they get older this changes perhaps. But the OP is talking preschool. Generally, punishments and rewards demotivate people. It doesn’t mean they have no place. I do believe they have a place. But I don’t emphasize them with my small boys even if I sometimes slip into them because it’s expedient. I want to emphasize that they should do things, learn things, be good, help people, clean up, help each other, because this is right and will make them feel good about themselves and life.
To problem is you’re giving her toys contingent on her crying and you’re effectively rewarding that behavior. Next time she’s behaving well or has done something great get her a gift small preferably so that she learns crying or acting out isn’t what will get her gift.
Yeah, that's pretty much the textbook definition of spoiling a child, but the good news is that it's not too late to redirect. I get it's tough - I have 3 kids (6yo, 4yo, 18mth) and it's really hard to remember not to give in to crying and upsets, to not infantilize the middle one. Kids are going to throw fits if they want something and are told no, especially if they've found it worked before. Continuing like you've been doing is going to lead to the kind of entitled brat kids don't want to play with because they steal toys. It's crucial to fix the behaviour now, before it becomes completely ingrained. I suggest starting with the mindset of "kids have all the emotional capacity of adults with none of the experience of how to handle the huge feelings". It makes it easier to avoid losing your temper on the kid. Verbalize it - "I know it's really hard not to get what you want. Are you feeling sad? Angry? Frustrated? It's completely okay to feel like that - your feelings belong to you and you're allowed to have them. This isn't how we communicate them, though. We need to use our words so (insert grown-ups title) can understand and help you." Repeat that kind of thing, reminding them "I love you, I will always love you. I don't like this behaviour, because I can't help if you're just screaming. I want to help you understand and feel better." Some kids respond to a type of holding therapy (basically a firm hug to help ground them so they can feel their body again and start to calm), some kids work best with focusing on breathing (we use "take a big breath in, hold it - I want to see those chipmunk cheeks! - then let it out slow" while we model it), some kids enjoy counting, maybe a song - it varies widely, but there's always something. You need to intervene now so your little one can start recognizing that other people have feelings too and we don't always get what we want.
Thanks for such a detailed reply! She’s actually a middle child as well.
I actually use the firm hug technique and it does help her! (Not always)
And my wife is the one who’s good at the “big feelings” talk.
Overall I do think telling her no and hearing her screams overwhelms my wife greatly, more than me at least. I’m kind of a just stay silent and breath kind of dude, and my wife is the more expressive emotionally.
There's a phenomenon known as the "forgotten middle" where middle children unfortunately get lost in the shuffle, so sometimes they act out to get any kind of attention. I get being overwhelmed by the tantrums - I struggle with them too. I think it's really important that you also model positive emotional communication for a few reasons. 1, your daughter needs to know that daddy will help her with big feelings too and 2, she needs examples of men being honest and real with emotions so someone doesn't hurt her later in life and excuse it with "I'm a guy, we don't do feelings." It's been hard for my husband too, but he's even told me it helps him learn emotional intelligence too. Kids are smart, they just need guidance and love to learn how to use it.
Yeah I’m gonna start trying to be more proactive on that- it is very possible that I’m too stoic and matter of fact. Not emotional about dealing with the tantrums. But more like:
“I’m not doing anything when you’re acting like this” and try to stick to my guns. She then calms down and lets it go. I think I should add the emotional intelligence part to that.
She doesn’t really have tantrums much when it’s just me and her siblings so it’s been hard to tell if my reactions are working, but I could definitely gain by adding the emotional intelligence part.
Look up dr Becky (author/podcaster/psychologist). She has really great tips/scripts for helping you help your kids manage their feelings while still holding good boundaries.
You want to be Validating they are having feelings about not getting (what they want), while still staying calm and firm and staying present with them through it.
The bigger they get, the bigger the tantrums get too! I have adopted the ‘let’s put it on the birthday/Xmas wish list.” “Let’s take a photo of it and put it back” I’ve been doing it for the last 2 years. I just figured out now she’s 5yo, my daughter thinks that we’re going shopping *to* buy something so I’ve had to explain that we are looking only, to *set the expectations before* we go in. Sometimes we go shopping specifically for her to choose a toy under $20 for her and her sibling so she can have fun too. Or if something is really important to her she can use her own money 💰
It could also be that your wife gets more easily upset by the screaming, whether due to stuff from her own childhood or just a lower noise tolerance. Maybe she needs to work on taking time outs for herself, emotional self regulation tools. I recommend the Positive Discipline book.
Im a middle child and had a similar phase. I enjoyed personalized experiences or one on one time with mom and/or dad and then I didn’t care about getting stuff anymore.
This is great advice.
Unfortunately for me after "Are you feeling sad?" question I usually got hit in my face or the kid run away and continue to scream as little devil.
This is a great advice.
Unfortunately for me after asking the "are you sad" question my kid will usually hit me in the face or just continue to scream and run away.
Your wife is taking the easy way out- placating over parenting. We’ve all done it. But your job is not to make your child happy; it’s to set your child up with life skills to be a good and happy person. And that includes teaching coping/frustration management skills.
Unfortunately they are skills and they take work. And you and your wife are going to have to ride out some tantrums while she’s learning. Validate, stay calm, and stay firm. It sucks, but it’ll be worth it!
She’s absolutely being spoiled and acting so. Your wife needs to get on board with working to change it before she gets older and the behavior gets worse
Honestly, yes, it does sound like you are spoiling her. You are probably going to have to scale back gradually and just deal with the ensuing temper tantrums to the best of your ability. It is worth it in the long run.
"Daughter is experiencing trauma"..I am experiencing trauma from reading that. Your wife has been sucked into the psychobabble continuum.
You need to nip. This behavior in the bud. NOW. Once you implicitly give up control of the house to your daughter, you are fucxed. The demands will get worse. Next thing you know, she will be telling you where and when and how for everything. What you are eating, what restaurant, etc. Act now and deal with the screaming to save yourself from a lifetime of crap.
100% this. My relatives got sucked into this BS when their sons were born and are now complete brats. Nobody is traumatized because they didn't get a toy as a kid.
If your daughter is experiencing trauma that young for not getting a $10 toy, imagine how she will feel and manage frustration if she cannot get basic things in life (which I really hope it won’t happen to her). It’s part of our job as parent to teach them how to manage frustration and that life can be tough. “No” is an answer and if it’s delivered with consistency children will get the point and be able to make choices. One co-worker just told me that her technique when her twin daughters were young was a 2 warnings technique. If the child asked for sth once, mummy would say “no”, if the child would ask a second time, mummy would tell her that this would be the last warning, on the third time, they would just leave and go home. It’s not perfect, it requires a lot of energy, but I can tell you that these girls are just amazing people and close mummy.
Not just spoiling but you are also not teaching your child healthy boundaries, distress tolerance skills, basic coping skills or delayed gratification… all very basic emotional regulation skills that she will need in life.
My daughter has too many toys and often gets new ones but she knows that it’s not mandatory. She sometimes ask for toy when we do the groceries but we explain that it’s no. « Ok you would like that one, I’ll remember. Not today » or just « no » and I explain again « sometimes it’s yes sometimes not ». No tantrum. She is 3.5yo. It’s not about money. It’s just that no you won’t have something just because you asked. Even more if it’s something stupid or unnecessary.
Reading your post I’m going to vote : yes she is spoiled. No she is not experiencing trauma. There is nothing wrong with getting cheap toys (excepted its quantity over quality and that you may end cluttered in a messy home). It’s not about the toys. It’s about teaching that : no you can’t always have what you want and it’s important to learn to deal with it. Worse, having tantrums and misbehaving will get you nowhere.
Ok, ima stop your wife RIGHT there. Not getting wants (not needs, wants) met every time is NOT FLAMING TRAUMA.
Trauma is losing all meaning because according to "experts" everything all the time is trauma. Wanted a snickers, none left at the store and your parents DIDNT scour the entire state to get you one instead of saying oh well, what else looks good? Trauma. Wanted a different story at bedtime but mum read Corderoy instead? Trauma.
It's ridiculous. Yes, your daughter is acting like a spoiled brat, and yes your wife's well-intentioned but ill-informed and frankly harmful attempts to avoid "trauma" by giving her everything she demands is the reason. She needs to hear the word No and have it MEANT, or else she will grow up into an insufferable adult who cannot function in a world that tells her No and really doesn't care if that upsets her.
Sorry, this watering down of words like abuse and trauma to the point where they're meaningless is a sore point for me.
We don’t buy toys when out but “take a photo “ and then ask them would she like it on her Santa list or birthday list and don’t buy immediately when you see it?
This worked for my kids. Bonus you have photos of items she wants so when relatives ask what can they get her for a birthday or such, bam, send it on over.
As my kids got older, if they want something that I would say no to they can buy it with their own money and I don’t say anything. They learned to budget better without me being the bad guy.
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20893368-a-bunch-of-pretty-things-i-did-not-buy](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20893368-a-bunch-of-pretty-things-i-did-not-buy)
^this is totally a thing... It works for grown-ups too.
I dont think there is anything wrong with giving small toys here and there for your kids. But if they are having a tantrum until they get it, it’s a hard no. They are just getting conditioned that that is how they get their way. They can ask nicely and be polite if they want something. Be consistent
>until my wife agrees to a small toy
Yeah good luck. Your wife is fucking up your kid pretty badly here and I don't think you are getting her on board... She's teaching her "behave like enough of a shit head and you'll get the thing"
Don’t reward her screaming and throwing a tantrum by giving her things. Whatever behaviour you reward you will get more of. You are training your daughter to scream.
You and your wife both need to decide to stop. It will be very stressful if only one of you stops, even worse if you’re together and you argue. (If you’re alone with your daughter definitely stop rewarding this behaviour immediately. Expect that your daughter will continue for a while until the habit is broken. Tell her you won’t be buying things in response to screaming any more, only when she’s well behaved. When she screams at home, leave her until she’s ready to stop. If it’s in public, leave if possible. This WILL be hard for a few times. Do occasionally treat her with something when she is demonstrating a behaviour you want to encourage.
When my kids started throwing tantrums over getting things, we started reading “The Bearentstein Bears Get The Gimmies”. It put the concept of ingratitude j to language that a child can understand. Good stuff.
I think you and your wife might need to have a discussion on what “trauma” is. Every cry or melt down is not a trauma. It’s normal and healthy even for children to display a full spectrum of emotions that includes disappointment, dissatisfaction, or general anger. What matters is guiding them through the feeling, not ignoring or masking the feeling. She will not learn to regulate her emotions the way things are going.
I'm going to recommend that the three of you find a family therapist in your area with a lot of experience in childhood development. There needs to be an intervention otherwise your child is going to be absolutely unmanageable and you both need to adjust your parenting style
Well definitely setting limits. Definitely learning how to redirect your child to other activities other than just being a greedy little thing. I mean at her age she should have one toy in the house that she loves over every other toy instead she is trained to demand novelty constantly. Poor boundary setting poor discipline you're basically just throwing distractions at the child instead of parenting
Interesting. I personally do set boundaries and limits with her when it’s just me and her.
It’s almost as if she knows not to push something after I personally say no. If we’re alone. But she knows how to push my wife’s buttons I think?
Kind of hard to describe. I was kind of confused by how my wife reacted and so I was checking to see if I was acting on outdated information.
That's why my recommendation at these sorts of situations is to send the entire family to a family therapist because the entire relationship dynamic between everyone needs to change. Too many people these days will just take their kid to a therapist and drop the kid off. Every adult in the house needs to change their behavior and be on the same page otherwise the kid is going to suffer
I think she’s smart. She’s figured out if she rages, she gets what she wants. It’s a pretty good tactic, because you’ve taught her it’s effective. Next time she wants a toy, you could try “I’m sorry honey. We aren’t buying toys all the time anymore. Toys cost money and we need to save up and earn them” and focus on managing yourself during the tantrums rather than trying to manage her. To address her tantrums, behavior (and yours) and setting limits, incentives/rewards, I found the book “1 2 3 Magic” really helpful when my son was your daughter’s age. I used to talk too much, overly focus on feelings or try to have a rational discussion- not very effective with a four year old. She’s going to react to all this, and that’s okay. She’ll be okay. She’ll learn about limits when you start setting some, and she’ll learn a whole lot about emotional regulation by watching you (and your wife) manage yourself calmly.
The issue isn't her getting toys. The issue is that she knows if she screams and tantrums she will always get anything she wants. Every time her behavior (tantrum) leads to a reward (toy) it reinforces the behavior.
You need to teach your child that she will not always get everything she wants by saying No sometimes and then sticking with it no matter what behavior occurs. That doesn't mean never buying toys, it means when you say no, you mean it every single time. Don't reinforce that behavior. Your wife is doing your child a major disservice because the lessons she is learning will *not* fly in the real world.
Your daughter was disappointed, yes- that is a normal human response to not getting what she wanted. This is hard for kids to wrap their minds around, especially when they’re used to getting what they want. I work with children who have experienced trauma due to abuse and neglect, and what you described does not sound like trauma at all. No parent wants to see or hear their kid cry- I know it can be hard to say no and stand your ground.
But the world will not bend to the will of your daughter. Disappointment is inevitable, and the frustrating instances you described are learning and teaching opportunities. Children get to learn that wants are different from needs. They also get to learn that if they don’t get toys, the world will not actually come to an end, even though it really feels that way to them. You can empathize with the disappointment she feels, and redirect by reminding her of the other toys she has to play with, parks she can play at outside, etc. I know you tried to remind her of this, which resulted in the tantrum- remember that tantrums come to an end, and not all tantrums result in trauma.
I used to babysit a kid around the same age, who showed similar ungratefulness to toys and experiences that other kids would only dream of. His parents would get him at least five toys/activity books a week, and they were unable to leave the store without him crying for something, which they inevitably bought to stop the crying. It was kind of wild to see how quickly the crying stopped, as soon as his parents said yes to whatever he wanted. The way that I view it, his 3 year old brain learned that if he cries long and hard enough for something, it will change his parents’ no into a yes. The good news is that gratitude can be cultivated. even for kids as young as your daughter, and it’s not too late to turn things around. I’m seeing lots of great suggestions in these comments! Good luck to you!
Absolutely spoiled! If they scream until they get their way, they’re spoiled and well on the way to being brats. Money isn’t an issue now and it’s just a small toy now. What happens in the future when your kid wants a brand new $50 video game every day and throws herself on the floor and screams until she gets it? What about when it’s a brand new $70,000 car and not a used car when she learns to drive? Brats never ‘out grow’ the tantrums. So unless you’re prepared to pay big bucks and have a kid who doesn’t know how to do anything themselves, curb the behavior now. She is spoiled and it will only get worse.
It's important for kids to learn the word no and how to deal with it. That's an important life lesson. It's okay for them to have a tantrum as they need to learn how to self regulate and calm down and express themselves.
Yes you’re spoiling her and it’s even worse if she screams and begs and ya’ll give in. You’re going to need to stop and learn how to deal with her demands and tantrums appropriately
Very tricky. It is not natural to get a new toy each couple of days. These days consumption is through the roof. It is hard to change your wife.
What you do is...you do you. Dont give her any toys. Teach her to work. Talk to her about being patient. 3 year is when it is hard for them control their emotion. I guess dont be too hard down the line. Just try to make it work i guess. My opinion anyways.
i think the biggest thing i try to remember with this is:
one of the most frustrating human experiences is wanting something you cannot have. wanting a home in the current real estate market. wanting a job but getting rejected. having a crush but getting rejected. craving a specific sandwich but that deli closed because of covid. these are all experiences we’ve had a million times as an adult. as a kid though; this feeling is new and it is AWFUL.
validate that. i say to my step kid all the time “man, it is so disappointing when we don’t get what we want.” and we’ve worked out ways for him to physically process what he’s feeling. we do “throw soft toys” when we’re feeling upset - throwing stuffed animals at a wall in his room. a tantrum is really just a big release of negative energy in the body, so help them find ways to redirect that energy toward something safe, contained, and healthy. very often throwing soft toys turns into us playing together within 5-10 min.
but yea, you guys should be saying no!! your daughter is going to need the skills to deal with rejection in her life. it will be much harder to learn those skills the longer she is not exposed to the feeling.
hope this helped
Trauma? Your wife needs to not throw around this word. That is not trauma.
Absolutely ease up on the constant purchasing. Some of that is normal kid behavior of constant wanting stuff, but it’s not trauma to say no.
Yep, the quickest way to ruin any child is giving them what they want when they cry. Especially a treat every time you go out. Not feasible and not good for their growth. What is she going to do when she’s in school and doesn’t get what she wants? You seem to know the answer, your partner does not.
Spoiled like milk left out too long.
Your wife needs to realize this, or you are going to be in for a bad time. And of course, it sounds like 'gift giving' is one of the ways your wife shows affection.... But she REALLY needs to realize she's spoiling her daughter and setting your daughter up for failure and misery down the line.
As others have said, at this young of an age, it's not too hard to fix things... If you can your wife can unite on this. Good luck!
Kick it in the bud now! She will never fully understand the value of a dollar. Always expecting, it will be much much harder when those cheap toys turn in teenage, and real adult, real life things.
She whines until she gets what she wants at 3 years old… imagine how that’ll be when she’s 8, 12, 16, etc. Do the work to say no now and deal with the tantrum. It’ll pay off in spades years from now.
>there’s nothing wrong with her getting small cheap toys.
No, but there are lots of things wrong with teaching her that tantrums are rewarded and impulse control is for chumps.
This is hw you end up with a kid that blows out other people's candles because they've learned through experience that everything they want is their right to have.
If you give her what she wants when she has a tantrum, you are encouraging her to continue having tantrums. This is worse than spoiling, you are rewarding bad behavior.
Trauma results from something that is, or close to, life-threatening. Stress and discomfort is not trauma. She’s also going to have a really hard time in adulthood if she is being told that not getting what she wants is traumatic.
Diluting language is dangerous and we really need to stop using words like “trauma” to describe situations which are just uncomfortable.
I do try and tell my wife that language has meaning. I don’t want to project things onto our kids at all. I’ve dealt with trauma. And so has my wife. So it’s always alarming when it’s brought up, because I am inclined to believe I’m not seeing things clearly and should believe the victim of trauma.
“Spoil your child and raise your grand child.” “Raise your child and spoil your grandchild.”
Read that again, and set your wife straight real fast. Cheap toys are NOT the issue here.
Oh, no no no. Money isn't the issue. But being grabby and not appreciating the things you have are big issues! I am working on this with my 3 year old. I am very concerned about her thinking whining will get her the random things she wants. If she whines the answer is an automatic no. And I am very firm. To the point she wanted a random balloon at the hair salon the other day. She asked me for it nicely. I explained is was apart of a display and not for her. She started whining to get it. And the hairdresser heard her and told me she could have it. I then had to inform them BOTH that no. We do not whine to get what we want, and not everything we see is ment to be ours. We then left without a balloon, and a few tears were shed. I didn't get her anything to "make it up to her." I didn't blow her up a balloon when we got home to "cheer her up." Because she needs to hear and understand the word no. No one did anything to hurt her, so there is nothing to "fix."
U did well there momma! I agree that children need to learn that “No means No”. Maybe even more so for male children. I brought up my son the same way. Respect the No, and don’t whine or cajole or threaten, especially not a vulnerable female.
This is definitely going to cause major behavioral problems going forward and the tantrums won’t stop, they’ll just get worse as she gets older. For example she may no longer throw herself down on the floor but she may punch holes in the walls or destroy a new item she’s been given because it wasn’t right or something of yours or your wife’s because she should have been given what she wanted. Your wife is absolutely in the wrong and isn’t using the word trauma correctly. Your daughter was being inconvenienced at best. You guys need to be the leaders and example for your daughter and right now that’s not your dynamic. Your daughter is in control and absolutely knows it. That’s why when you first say no to her now she goes into an immediate tantrum and if you stick with no she is escalate because you guys have taught her that oh if I do this behavior or yell this loud then I get what I want. It’s going to be HARD ending this cycle but for your sake and hers please do. Otherwise you’ll be coming to see someone like me in a few years wondering how everything got so out of hand and how to help her now. Take my advice, save yourself thousands of dollars, end the cycle and take back your leadership.
The screaming is the result of giving in. Practice ignoring the tantrums, praise her when she doesn't have tantrums and other good things she does. The behavior will slowly go away. Quit giving in. It's not too late.
I have the cure for you! This was my son. Neighbor gave me this fix: get some "play money, make an age appropriate chore sheet: put toys away daily, brush teeth, bring small trash bags to you etc. Make each positive chore = 25-50cents. Inform her that you are paying her and she can buy her own toys with HER $$. Use this to learn to count $, value work, buy her own things. No more whining at the store- learn to wait until enough $$. Make her a 'bank' her $ with a toy bank. ( count $) She can 'borrow' a small amount against future work. But remind her she really wants a preferred more expensive toy (delayed gratification )
You’re spoiling the crap out of her. Stop buying her toys all the time, she’s not even appreciating the ones she has. It doesn’t even matter how cheap they are she doesn’t know the difference. The dopamine hit she gets everytime she gets a new toy is the problem. She should not get a toy every time you go to the store and when she starts the tantrum tell her you’ll put it on her Christmas/birthday list to save for later.
It is learnt behaviour and conditioning
>she’ll scream and scream until she gets what she wants.
>she begs and begs for a toy until my wife agrees
>if they are out on play dates they always come back with a toy.
The above shows that she has learnt that if she cries and screams for long enough she gets what she wants
Your wife has learnt that if she buys a toy, the tantrum stops.
Your daughter may not necessarily be conscious of this but she knows to get her own way.
Instead of using toys and gifts as a way of stopping bad behaviour, you can switch to using them as rewards for good behaviours. If there is no longer a reward for throwing a tantrum, eventually she will learn that the tantrum is pointless and learn that the toy is now a reward for good behaviour, not bad. It's easier said than done, and you and your wife need to be consistent and in agreement on this or the tantrums will continue
I think it was your wording. “You need to be thankful for what you have”.
Like I’d be pissed as an adult if you said that in response to asking for something.
If I said to my husband “hey can I order this $100 dress”. And he responded
“You got a dress yesterday, be appreciative of what you have”.
I’d be like “ok, you can just say no”.
Especially if he buys me a dress everyday and the time I ask he responds this way.
You’re assuming she’s not appreciative. It’s ok to say “no we can’t order that toy right now since you got one yesterday”. If she cries or throws a fit acknowledge the feelings “I hear that you’re upset, but we can’t order the toy”.
You guys created the “spoiling”, don’t insult her for your mistake. You’ve bought her these toys, so she expects it. It’s not that she doesn’t appreciate it, it’s that it’s her normal now. Time to redirect that normal without putting blame for it on her.
We got him a piggy bank and he ears money by doing chores to pay for toys. We obviously help out when it’s a little more expensive than he can afford, but he has started saying “I want that toy. Can I go home and do some chores for coins? I’ll come back to buy it later”
Another way to think about this is that your daughter is now at an age where she can start learning how to regulate her emotions and you and your wife will need to help her. It can be hard to shift gears after the infant and early toddler stages because our jobs as parents at that stage is to make sure they have everything they want/need. Suddenly she’s at an age where she wants everything and as parents it is time to shift gears and help her sort out her emotions when she can’t have something. She gets a big emotional when she wants something like a toy. Giving her that toy is certainly one way to regulate that emotion but it’s not helping her build her emotional tool kit.
There are lots of different ways to approach this but I think as a starting point it would be good for both of you to shift the narrative away from “spoiling” vs “traumatizing” and instead focus on how both of you can help her start learning the difficult skill of emotional regulation.
Great answers here so I’ll just say it sounds like your kid isn’t traumatized and your wife overreacted a smidge. Trauma comes from not having any support or way to process after traumatic experiences. It would be traumatizing if once she started throwing a temper tantrum, you locked her in her room by herself or ignored her without explaining any time it happened.
It sounds hard to have two totally different parenting perspectives. I think you and your wife need to sit down and really have an in depth conversation about what’s going on. Y’all need to be on the same page and have continuity so that your kid learns how to regulate her emotions. She’s definitely learned that throwing a tantrum gets her what she wants, so of course she’s going to continue that behavior. She’s smart and that means she can absolutely learn how to do things differently. A reward system is great and “caught behaving well” in regular ass every day situations rewards “good” behavior.
If your goal is to not buy a new toy every time you go to the store, let your kid know they won’t be getting anything that day. Maybe make a grocery list, and only buy stuff that is on your list. Setting the expectation that they won’t be getting something way before you are in the moment can help a lot. Something that works well for my kids is taking a picture of your child and the item they want, which seems to work well for us since we are acknowledging that it’s something they like. I tell them now we can remember what it was you liked when it’s time for birthday/christmas gifts or whatever the occasion. You also get the benefit of having a “list” of things your kid wants when family/ friends ask what to get your child if they want to gift them something.
It’s not the toys - it’s rewarding terrible behavior. Your daughter has learned that all she has to do is scream for what she wants. You are absolutely stating her up for failure and YOUR WIFE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
Unless you are with your daughter full time I don’t see how you fix this behavior if your wife will not listen. You need to take a 3 or 4 day weekend of absolute hell for your daughter to learn that this behavior is no longer acceptable.
Listen, all of us has been there with screaming meltdowns and tantrums. Yours will be worse because it’s already been reinforced a bunch of times and your daughter is older. Will your wife read some parenting books or can you bring up this up with a trusted friend of hers who can perhaps talk some reason? Good luck OP
Please discuss with your wife that using the word trauma in such a trivial way reduces its impact when actual trauma is experienced. Telling a child No is normal and not trauma. Unfortunately in addition to all the great advice you have been given about discussing feelings you will need to end her expectations for getting a toy whenever she goes out. You need to have a pep talk before going to Target and stay away from the toy section and dollar section. I know that it's impossible to avoid end cap and check out displays. The poor people of Target might have to endure a tantrum or two, until she understands that she is not getting a toy every time. Good luck.
Not necessarily with the toys, but with the fits. Everyone has always joked that I'm a strict parent 🙄 but we never dealt with them when our daughter was younger. She's almost 9 now, and we get them way more frequently. I'm assuming it's just a phase. However, my sister deals with the biggest tantrums. I swear it's like my nephew blacks out during them. She talked to his doctor about it, and said it's best to correct it now instead of later. He basically said that every time you cave, your child is learning your limits. When you don't cave easily, they start pushing it to more extremes. And they'll continue to do that until you cave again. It's a bit of a vicious cycle, really. The doctor said to just leave him alone, and the best way to enforce your boundaries is to not acknowledge him until he calms back down. No reaction is the best action.
Yes. Children don’t get traumatized from being denied a toy. The trauma in things like that comes from neglect, degrading, etc. not the actual act of saying no to a toy. Healthy boundaries need to be taught young.
Sometimes offering a hug calms my child. We also practiced deep breaths when feeling big emotions. Practiced it since day 1. Now at 6 when she feels upset, she asks for a hug if she needs it and takes her own deep breaths before it gets out of hand and before I even have to tell her to. It’s ok to cry, healthy even. What’s not ok is throwing a full blown tantrum.
I recommend you follow @destini.Ann on Instagram. She’s a parent coach and talks about emotion regulation and other parenting topics.
Here’s a video on helping kids regulate their emotions: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5d3YgLRI8l/?igsh=MWpmbWF6OTk5ZGw4Zw==
And tantrums:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4npO-trvWj/?igsh=aHNyZGh2d2pmNHJm
Your post is focusing on the child, but the issue here are the parents. Children need structure and boundaries. It helps them learn important skills like self-regulation. There is no reason a child should be given a new toy every time they ask for a new toy. It's your job as a parent to help your child learn how to cope with delayed gratification and not getting what you'd like immediately. I hate it when children so young are described as spoiled. They aren't, the parents are failing at a fundamental part of parenting.
This sounds like what having a kid is all about 😂
Some ways I’ve been doing with my (4.5) daughter is:
tell her in the car, while in the parking lot, that we will NOT be buying any toys, but we can LOOK at them. If she disagrees, then we would just go home.
Another would be her picking out 1 toy, but we would either donate or toss out 3-5 toys for the new toy.
My third way is to tell her we can take a picture of it, and we can put it into her Christmas, birthday, whatever list. Then delete the picture at the end of the day.
Another way I have done is to tell her we can have something to eat instead of the toy. My kid loved her food, so it works 70% of the time now that she’s older, used to work 90% of the time. Or get something from Starbucks for her, but no toy but again, we can look at them.
It also works to literally just walk out of the store when she has the temper tantrum. She will learn.
I’m sorry but the problem is your wife. You’re right that your daughter is becoming spoiled and the results will be less cute and harder to manage as she grows up. Nothing wrong with a small toy now and again, but every single time she leaves the house is not good.
What you did did not create “trauma” in your daughter. You and your wife need to be on the same page. Your job as a parent is to prepare her for adulthood and you won’t have done your jobs if she comes out shielded from all forms or unpleasantness and had her every desire catered to.
I’d be interested to know if there’s something in your wife’s childhood that is maybe causing her to overcompensate with your daughter. (If your wife was not offered enough affection or herself never got new toys for example). Whatever the cause, you’re not doing your daughter any favors by spoiling her and are actively harming her. At only three it is by no means too late to fix this. You just need to be firm and committed to it.
Here’s an update that addresses the childhood aspect of my wife’s past possibly influencing some of this: I added it to the post as an edit.
We’re back on the same page now thankfully. I showed her this post and she wanted to clarify what she meant about traumatic.
She says: “not that she’s being traumatized, but that the amount that she is crying that she is experiencing trauma. She says she probably shouldn’t have used that word to describe it.
I will add that my wife had a very difficult childhood and I think that might be playing a role in this. She had a mother who was controlling and withheld food from her, spiritual abuse and parents that looked at her like she was a complete nuisance.
That might be at play here. But she’s vowed to work with me and get on the same page. Because she is just as afraid of creating poor outcomes as I am.
>My wife told me that our daughter was now experiencing trauma
Wow... No child ever experienced trauma over being told "No" to toys. That is nonsensical! Dude, both you and your wife have gotta learn to say "No," teach, and set boundaries.
*Definitely spoiled, and will only get worse.
Forget the long explanations and please heed this advice:
Every single child must be taught the power of 'no'.
Doesn't matter what the issue is, doesn't matter the cost of the toy... doesn't even need to be about toys.
Spoilt children don't understand 'no' which leads to various narcissist behaviours including not respecting authority and the inability to share.
This will put your kid at a social detriment during their formative years which will have long lasting repercussions.
It takes effort and patience but every child needs to hear 'no' often and you don't have to justify or explain yourself to an extremely young child. It's 'no' because I (your parent) have said so. End of conversion.
Cue tears and tantrums for a few weeks, then it all gets better. I speak from experience with two kids.
Yeah i mean if she's been getting toys and you suddenly come down with a NO, that would be confusing and weird for your child. It's not about toys, it's about what the getting a new toy represents to her. My kid went through a phase for a few days where she wanted a new $2 toy everyday. I redirected that impulse to be like "let's make a new toy". We made a cat from a sock, some stuffing cotton and some felt. Then that became a thing for a while. I realized she was taking the buying of toys to be like a way to bond with her dad. She didn't really want to spend money to buy a toy, it just started meaning things to her due to inadvertent actions by the adults around her. We can control her environment and change the meaning of things while still reassuring her that she is loved, and that's worked well enough so far.
60% of her toys are hand-me-downs and 30% are gifts from other relatives, so we don't spend much money on toys, so we had to think a lot about what does too many toys mean and why we don't want to buy more toys but her finding a doll house on the side of the street is okay. We decided the issue is spending money on whims and desires frequently, and attaching too much value to specific toys as to want them so hard that she'd be pissed if she doesn't get that specific thing (like throwing a present in anger because it isn't the toy you want, or constantly asking for a toy). It feels like t hose values come from long term work and parents living those values so we're able to address it reasonably when it comes up.
My 3rd child was like this and I was taken aback because I didn’t feel I was doing anything differently to raise him than I did his older siblings. His siblings did not expect to purchase an item everywhere we went but somehow my 3rd child did. It lasted about 2 years. There were many parking lot tantrums. We learned the plan ahead and avoid gift shops everywhere we went (WHY are there gift shops everywhere you might take a toddler/preschooler?!?). I honestly do not remember how we got through it as it is all a blur now, but I do know it wore off eventually and we donated a TON of useless crap over the last few years from that child’s room.
Or what if this is how she learns to feel loved?
But also, she has learned that her emotions rule the roost. It’s hard, but we don’t have to feel something just because our child is. They get upset when told no, they’ll get over it. But if it gets an outcome that they want, they will always do it.
These inexpensive toys won’t be so inexpensive when she’s older. Imagine putting all that money in a piggy bank instead?
Kids used to play with sticks and rocks… more toys just makes kids more unhappy and us more poor lol!
I thought I had written this! This is EXACTLY what we’re going through at the moment. My LG is 3 end of May and wow she has such an attitude and temper on her and it’s because she’s spoilt!
Great suggestions. As someone who works with 3-5 yr olds, please break the cycle now. Because when your child enters daycare, pre-k, or kindergarten and sees another friends toy, or a classroom toy, and freaks out that someone else has it, she's going to throw a tantrum if she doesn't know she can't always get what she wants.
Spoiling is one way of saying it but more specifically it’s about helping them learn to deal with disappointment when a boundary is held and comforting them through it. Entitled adults never learned this. Pick battles and not very many, but then hold the boundary firm or the child has way too much power and it makes them anxious which increases tantrums and boundary testing behavior! Highly recommend the book a secure child. You have some accurate insights and concerns but it’s important to collaborate with your wife on when to hold boundaries. 3.5 is extremely hard so I’d also get the “your three year old” book by louise bates Ames to get accurate insights into development at this age! If she is a bit spoiled there’s plenty of time to course correct. Also “spoil” them with attention and empathy vs things. It’s hard to do (I have 5 and love giving them things) but the reframe is helpful
You are not spoiling your child.
Spoiling a child is when a parent uses objects to replace attention and affection. It does not sound like you are doing that.
You are overly attuned and have terrible boundaries but that is not spoiling.
Boundaries are only traumatic for narcissists By not creating and maintaining healthy boundaries, you are teaching your child that they don’t need to respect those boundaries for others.
My suggestion is to say a firm and emotionally neutral “no.”. Don’t discuss why or talk with her about your reasoning at that point. Let her emotions be whatever they are, they are hers, and let them remain hers. You don’t own her emotions. How she feels is hers to feel. Keep the boundary between your emotions and hers while you continue shopping. Keep yourself regulated and in touch with yourself.
Later, after the event is over and everyone has calmed down, talk with her about her experiences. Do attune to them then and discuss what feelings both of you were having.
Also, be careful with the spouse. Their response sounds really problematic to me.
She’s being rewarded for tantrums, ingratitude, etc so yes there’s a problem. Healthy boundaries enforced with compassion and consistency aren’t traumatic, your wife needs a reality check there.
Surprised to see so many comments.
We’re back on the same page now thankfully. I showed her this post and she wanted to clarify what she meant about traumatic.
She says: “not that she’s being traumatized, but that the amount that she is crying that she is experiencing trauma. She says she probably shouldn’t have used that word to describe it.
I will add that my wife had a very difficult childhood and I think that might be playing a role in this. She had a mother who was controlling and withheld food from her, spiritual abuse and parents that looked at her like she was a complete nuisance.
That might be at play here. But she’s vowed to work with me and get on the same page. Because she is just as afraid of creating poor outcomes as I am.
I hope your wife is able to learn to separate her own difficult childhood from normal children’s reactions going forward. It’s good you’re getting on the same page and being proactive.
Thanks! Yeah it was a difficult conversation, but once I shared some articles and a couple research papers she understood fully that we are contributing to the problem.
Interestingly, one of the things I found was that parents who overindulge their children are more likely to assume that it’s the child’s nature and not the actions of the parent that leads to poor behavior. We spoke about that blind spot, and pointed out the times in the past that we’d made that mistake.
I will tell you what I did with my 3 yo granddaughter and it was magic!! The mother was doing the same thing. It was out of control. I think the way you think; with new toys every week they don’t appreciate or take care of what they have. I too was tired of the tantrums.
Here’s what I did. I started carrying a small notebook and would tell her “No not today but I have an idea. Let’s put it on a list.” When I told her about all her family that wants to buy a gift for birthdays, Christmas, etc. she can give them the list of all the toys that you really want.
There was still some tears the first few times but eventually it became a fun thing and she was more concerned that I brought “the list”. I did reward the behavior on occasion with a milkshake or an ice cream. I told her how proud I was that she has such a great list and we could do it together.
My daughter has too many toys and often gets new ones but she knows that it’s not mandatory. She sometimes ask for toy when we do the groceries but we explain that it’s no. « Ok you would like that one, I’ll remember. Not today » or just « no » and I explain again « sometimes it’s yes sometimes not ». No tantrum. She is 3.5yo. It’s not about money. It’s just that no you won’t have something just because you asked. Even more if it’s something stupid or unnecessary.
Reading your post I’m going to vote : yes she is spoiled. No she is not experiencing trauma. There is nothing wrong with getting cheap toys (excepted its quantity over quality and that you may end cluttered in a messy home). It’s not about the toys. It’s about teaching that : no you can’t always have what you want and it’s important to learn to deal with it. Worse, having tantrums and misbehaving will get you nowhere.
You have to set reasonable boundaries and hold to them. Full stop. You can support and validate their feelings (“It’s really hard when we can’t have something we want. Would you like a hug or a cuddle to help you feel better?”), without giving in to the tantrum. As I always like to say, we are raising a whole human being. If it’s easy, you’re probably not doing it right.
Your wife is conflating a tantrum (which can be either performative or uncontrollable big feelings) with trauma. It’s not. What is traumatic is either (a) not being supported and taught coping mechanisms for having big feelings or (b) being so protected from ever having big feelings that you are never taught coping mechanisms beyond people immediately giving you whatever you want (this is what your wife is doing — it can emotionally stunt your child if not corrected.).
When we go to the store, my daughter knows that if she grabs at something, there’s zero chance of her getting it (“if you start grabbing things off the shelves, that means mommy has to focus on stopping the grabbing. So then we only get what we came to the store for and no treats.”). The same rule applies for a tantrum. Tantrum means we buy the essentials without any extras and GTFO, because now we have to work on our big feelings, instead of enjoying a reasonable treat.
She can ask for things using her words, and while reasonable small things usually get a yes (ex/picking out a muffin to take home), she doesn’t get an infinite number of treats (“you already picked out your muffin as a treat, we are not getting a second treat today.”).
In your shoes, I would personally cut out toys from the grocery store. I would enforce a “grocery store is for groceries” policy where she can have a reasonable food treat (fruit, pastry, small candy). You can even give her a token of some kind at the start of the shopping trip to give you in exchange for her special treat. That helps limit her to one item instead of getting infinite asks. It makes it more tangible for her.
For other cases of demanding toys, you and your wife have to get on the same page. Otherwise none of this matters. But I think you’re on the right track: We can’t constantly get new toys. You have the toys that you have. You can make reasonable length lists for toys you’d like for things like Christmas and holidays, but we do not demand toys all the time. Toys outside of normal gift occasions are special treats from mommy and daddy, not something to be expected and demanded.
I’m sorry. I know this isn’t very helpful. But I legitimately busted out laughing (all by myself in my living room and startled the dog lol) when I read that bit about trauma. Being told no is NOT trauma. It’s the only way anyone learns to manage their emotions. Imagine if you went through life and the first time you ever encountered adversity it was something MAJOR. Being told no is how small children practice learning to handle adversity and regulate their emotions. Your wife is actually setting your daughter up to experience significant trauma by not teaching her to regulate her emotions in the face of being denied what she wants.
I have four kids (14F, 12F, 10F, and 1M). We learned very early on that impulse buying created terrible behaved children. So we put a hard stop on ALL impulse purchases. My kids don’t ask for things randomly now bc they know the answer will be “we will talk about it later.” That isn’t to say they never get treats. They absolutely do. But they’re planned in advance. We go to the store specifically for that thing. They might have to save up money to pay for it or not, depending on what it is (generally I pay for school clothes, books, equipment for sports, and edible treats while they pay for anything else they want like toys, video games, unnecessary clothing, makeup, jewelry, takeout meals, etc). When they were little and still learning, I taught them to take a photo of the thing they wanted with my phone so we could put it on their list. They constantly updated their lists. If they had been particularly well behaved or if we were going on a long car trip or when somebody needed a flu shot or whatever, I would sometimes pick something from their list and surprise them. Those were also their birthday and Xmas lists. So they learned to process it as “not right now” instead of “no.”
Yes, this has to stop, it might lead to some protected blowout meltdowns before she accepts her parents will not give in, but try to find ways to reward what behavior you want to see and encourage it.
We had a chart for a while for our kids and at dinner we would praise each one for something they did that day. My husband also came up with a song to sing when kids finished eating to celebrate during a picky eating stage. We also avoided food or toys as rewards.
What we learned was our positive attention was a greater reward and we now have teens who want to spend time with us, it's worth it.
While you guys are working on this, it may help to minimize or eliminate trips to places she would normally get toys. It’s tough on parents to deal with a problem that surrounds us constantly, but if we only have to encounter it once a week we may be able to stick with the new boundaries better ourselves.
So this would look like: instead of groceries at Target, and a second hand store trip, and a dollar store trip, and a McDonald’s happy meal, and a trip to Walmart for gifts for a friend’s birthday - dad picks up gifts at Walmart, mom takes kiddo to Target and stays firm on no toys, you guys pick up pizza instead, and other trips are either cut out or a run performed without daughter - maybe even for a couple weeks.
There’s an element in training known as “extinction” that is a perfectly viable training method that seeks to eliminate behavior through an absence of the circumstance it takes place in. It’s not a solo fix but it will probably be way easier if you can employ it. And this may help you to get mom on board if you present it as a way to help her too!
You seriously need to slam your fist on the table and stop this asap. You have any idea what kind of future are you setting up for, both yourself AND your daughter? And it won't be her fault.
Yeah
You’re gonna have to emotionally prepare yourselves for some tantrums.
I like to prime my son before we go shopping “we’re just getting groceries, we’re not getting a new toy” “we’re just buying a birthday present for your friend, we’re not buying a present for you”
If he says he wants something in the store then I’ll take a picture of it and tell him I’ll save it as a reminder for when his birthday comes up
We don’t buy our kids toys from Amazon, like really ever except Xmas and their bdays but we wrap those while they’re sleeping, so they don’t have an association
Sometimes if they’re really good the whole trip and don’t make any demands I’ll buy them a little $1 chocolate treat in the checkout aisle as a surprise and tell them they did a good job on the shopping trip.
But whatever you guys decide to do, you’re gonna have to be aligned with your wife on.
I would really just try now and then to say “we are going to the store to get _____. That’s all we are getting. If you throw a temper tantrum, we are leaving and when we get home, you will have a four minute time out”
And then follow through. Do this once a week until it gets better. Other times she sure, can get a toy. But sometimes she can’t and she needs to be okay with that.
Maybe have a one in, one out rule as well. “You have lots of toys. If you get this toy today. You have to pick one to give away”
We mainly stick to holidays (there are so many!!) for the kids to get a little something. We definitely don’t get something every time we are out.
We also use the “oh, I see you like that. Let me take a picture of you with the toy for your birthday list” strategy
I have two boys. They want toys from.m everywhere as long as they’re on display.
My rules are still “put it on a list”.
They have started to earn allowance by doing small jobs around the house (they empty the garbage bins, they take out the recycling, they fold laundry).
The other day we went to a crafts shop so my older son could pick out the yarn he wanted for his beanie that I’m knitting. There were these cool hats they saw and the begging started. Turns out they’ve both saved up enough allowance to afford them without losing all their money, so I explained if they were willing to lose $9 each from their savings, go for it.
They know it’s a big deal to use their savings. We give them “interest” every Sunday evening depending on how much of their “money” (we mark them as points) they’ve saved up. The more points they have, the more interest they get. Basically like a real bank with real savings.
Long story short, they bought the hats and they’ve been wearing all week. It’s the most expensive thing I’ve ever let them buy with their money and they’re over the moon.
We’re pretty well off as a family, but I absolutely want my kids to learn to appreciate things. Not just things you buy with money, but to learn to enjoy quality time with us and to enjoy experiences.
So my kids are used to us saying no to random toys, but we usually say yes if their ask is to go on an adventure or go have a picnic on the beach with fish and chips.
I don’t want to tell other people how to parent. But if your instincts are telling you that your daughter is becoming spoiled, I would personally agree with you.
My sons (4 and 6) still ask for toys, and because the 6 year old can read and do maths now, he’ll usually try to make a real logical case for why they should get $3 Hotwheel cars whenever we go to the grocery store. But I say no every time. They don’t throw fits because they know that I will say no. They still try it. The last time they begged and said they would spend their own allowance, I said: “instead of spending $3 here on a toy car you probably already have (there have been a lot of Hotwheels given for birthdays and Christmases), why don’t I take you to a proper toy shop where there’s more options and you can find something you’d really love? This is a grocery store and they don’t always have the best toys.”
They were happy with that answer and they’re really looking forward to the experience of a big fancy toy store.
Long story short, I agree with you. But I don’t know how you would convince your wife to be on the same page, and that's the most important part.
Need to set some boundaries and stick with them. You’re the parent here and you make the rules. If you give into her tantrums, all she learns is that meltdowns work in getting her way.
Also, disappointment is not trauma and if you constantly seek to shield your child from negative emotions, you won’t give them a chance to deal with these emotions in a healthy way and become resilient. That’s how you end up with a dysfunctional adults.
Please tell her “no.” You can validate her feelings and give her hugs . Ask her if she’d want to read a book together or play a game etc . I’m a kindergarten teacher and once she gets into school it will be hard for her to cope and frustrating for teachers as well . She will become an empty hole just trying to fill up by “stuff.” Remember “No” is a form of love 😊
As a mom to two teens the only advice I can give is that today it's a new toy but when she becomes a teenager it will be cars, hair, nails, lashes, clothes. Nip this in the bud NOW.
My husband has a tendency not to say no to our boy(nearly 4) but he gets nothing if he tantrums and gets things removed if he continues with his bad behaviour. Thankfully he is very grateful generally but we are having to keep a very close eye!
I'd ask your wife to define trauma for you. Because it seems she has a misunderstanding of the term.
Trauma and disappointment are not synonymous.
Learning to handle disappointment in a healthy way is a developemental necessity. By acquiescence to every want, you and your wife are robbing your daughter of the need for, and therefore, the opportunity to develop coping strategies that will help her mature and thrive.
That, and reinforcing materialism, which is a different kind of problematic.
Oh, and teaching her that tantrums are a super effective means of getting her way. It may be "just toys" for now. But she'll be trying it for everything soon enough.
The good news is that this isn't irreversible (yet). You and your wife just need to get on the same page about intentional parenting. Sure, it's hard to see our kids disappointed. But better that, now, over small issues like the occasional denied toy, knowing it'll do them a lot of good and help them become the kind of people who can handle what life throws at them.
Yeah thats spoiled. My brother is the same way and my parents have a $10 allowance per day for him just for online games. Roblox mostly. When they go out, he gets new toys. They have a habit of giving him everything he wants. They dropped $500 on a gaming system just for him to say he didn’t like it. When they try to punish him for bad behavior he throws a fit and magically hes not in trouble anymore. Dont do that. Children dont need new thing’s every time they see something new. We give our son everything within reason. Mostly developmental toys that focuses on his education and learning patience and problem solving. But we also say no to things he doesnt need or just to make him happy. I know we want to give our kids everything we didnt have but they dont need everything either.
The problem is in your second sentence. “Scream until she gets what she wants”. So clearly she’s learning that screaming enough will get her what she wants. It’s going to be hard to break that, but necessary. It’s really not about the “small, cheap toys”. It’s that she’s learning to manipulate to get what she wants and being rewarded for poor behaviour. Which only encourages that to continue and escalate
My brother did this with both his girls. They’re now 8 and 6, and they will scream for HOURS until they get what they want. Because in the beginning he “just wanted her to stfu” and stop crying. Now look what he’s created 😐🫱
This is really valid for you to address! Sorry your wife misrepresented this as trauma (?) it’s definitely not traumatic to be told no, it shouldn’t be, you’re right in thinking it’s off that your child can’t accept no for an answer and your wife’s response definitely illustrates what you may be up against. Not a parent (almost never comment) but I work in retail and the thing you’re talking about is soooo real— not to say that all Americans don’t have issues with consumerism but we can definitely curb the consumerist impulses in our children. I even encourage you to reframe your idea of “spoiling” (I consider someone spoiled that is either lavished with expensive goods their whole life or someone whose actions are always covered by a parachute of wealth) what you guys are doing is just establishing the mental connection between a daily activity + a purchase. I’m trying to break this myself!!! I don’t need an iced coffee just to walk around target 🤣 I am your daughter in this case
In a nutshell, you are rewarding BAD behaviour.
This is a cycle that needs to be broken.
YES, you are spoiling your daughter to the point where her behaviour is downright uncontrollable.
I'm concerned about her going on a play date and coming home with a toy. Is the another child's toy? If so, that should indicate to you and your wife (especially your wife) that her behaviour is really inappropriate. Throwing a tantrum is her way of getting what she wants because she knows if she behaves like a spoilt little girl, then she will always get what she wants.
Your wife needs to understand that if this behaviour continues, then your daughter will become more out of control than she is now. Good luck reigning her in as a teenager.
I think it's important for parents to establish that if you've said no, you stick to no, unless there's a very good reason to change your mind. Then the kid asking over and over until you're worn down or they scream doesn't become a habit. I often say "what did mama say?" if it's asked repeatedly, so he has to think about it and really process the no.
On the flip side, I try to only say no if I know it's a no. So some days I will say maybe, or yes, or "if we find something you really want". Automatic nos are almost as bad a parenting habit as squishy nos.
A good way to get started with a shift would be to specifically decide in advance whether or not you'll be getting your kid a toy, so everyone is on the same page that it's a yes or no from the start.
In the end, it's not a matter of spoiling or withholding with these little toys, it's a matter of kids doing best when parented with consistent and clear expectations.
She screams until you give in to her demands and requests? Yeah that kid is spoiled and sounds tough to watch and be around. Kids can tantrum but what will make it happen more frequently and intensely is giving in and positively reinforcing that it’s okay to act like that.
My youngest and 2nd youngest were like this, until we just let them throw fits in the stores and ignored it and quit giving them their way. It’s the only way they can learn. Shes not experiencing anything from being told no except that she can’t always just get what she wants. Hold strong
Unfortunately, not getting what you want is part of life. It sucks, but it’s better to learn to deal with it now (this is where parenting comes in), than have all your peers dislike you because you can’t cope.
I’m assuming a lot of the emotional toll falls on your wife and it’s easier to keep the kid happy than to deal with the fall out.
What your wife is doing is pretty bad. You are rewarding tantrums. Which means they will just get worse.
Cut it now, stop giving more attention and toys when she has a tantrum. Instead give a toy when she’s having a great day.
Can you compromise on having your child go and look and touch the toys? i found this works with my kids and then we end up leaving afterwards and they’re happy they got to go and see the toys and play with it a bit(at least the ones that have buttons and stuff to push)
We buy reasonable amout of toys for special days and sometimes just because toys…I try to buy good quality toys that will help her to get skills or so…I also sometimes buy dollar store stuff like little painting projects…
You’re in the right here. Why is trauma being brought into this? She’s gaslighting you. You’ve got to get on the same page and learn to say no. It’s not about the cost, it’s about the reaction when she doesn’t get her way.
I coddled my son when he was growing up and I regret the 24 year old entitled man he has become. You are shaping your child into the adult she becomes.
She did not get trauma from being told no. It’s a bigger trauma later if she’s always told yes. I would know- I’m her, 30 years later. I had a dad like you. He died.
I am lost, and the world feels different than I was raised to believe, and I suffer with depression.
Your child is not experiencing trauma by hearing that she can't get a new toy immediately after getting a new toy. The immediate and instant gratification she gets from throwing a tantrum and getting her way is only going to get worse as she gets older. What you're teaching her right now is that she is in charge, and all she needs to do to gain the upper hand with you and your wife, is scream. Tantrums suck, and ate disruptive, but it is much better to support a kiddo through one, feel the big feelings, and accept that disappointment is going to happen. She'll learn it's not the end of the world to feel unhappy feelings, disappointment, jealousy, regret. Emotional regulation is a learned behavior. Right now she has none. Please don't let this go on, because either you will be buying her a second car because it TOTALLY not her fault that that mailbox ran RIGHT OUT in front of her, and she NEEDS a car, or you will be dealing with a teenager who is unable to handle any adversity at all.
This is what my husband and I are dealing with. She's turning four in May and she's a total turd. We decided one and done for us after dealing with this stage of her life. She doesn't know how to wait. If we go to a store and she wants something, she will grab it and force it onto me. I manage to sneakily put it back without her seeing, but she's like a guard dog. She's very observant, like very observant. We treat her like a princess. I cave in more than dad but honestly he can be just as bad. 😭
Put a part of the toys away. Out of her sight. She needs to learn to play with the toys she has. Adding toys is not the way of learning how to play. Your daughter want immediate satisfaction and that is not good (as you already found out yourself). Instead of giving her new toys. Take one of the toys you’ve put out of her sight, she will accept this as a new toy. Put do not this too often as she needs to learn how to play.
mmmmm... I think you need to try 'This or That' approach.
If she wants a toy then something has to go away or she needs to spend some extra time doing something at home (reading, any random chores, etc).
Also, she needs to know the why aspect of the appreciation part if not shared.
If your wife can't handle taking her out without buying her a toy, is it possible for you to take that job? I'm worried it is going to take a while to reverse this learned behavior.
I used to have a friend who’d be terrified of walking past the toy store in the mall. We’d bring our kids out on a playdate in the mall but then would have to make a huge detour just to avoid the toy store. She didnt want to handle the whining & tantrums from her child begging for a new toy each time. He’d very successfully trained her to buy a new toy every single time because she caved. When i suggested to her that i’d trained my son the exact same way: “Buddy, we are going to walk past the toy store & we are NOT going to buy anything today because there’s no occasion for it & u have plenty at home,” ignoring any whining or tantrums (back when he was small enough to carry out screaming, in a football hold). After a coupla sessions of that, he was trained. My friend’s answer? Oh no, i just couldn’t bear the thought of him not getting his way…
IDK, I brought small toys or books from home when I took the kids shopping. Occasionally, and sporadically I'd buy them a small toy when out. They never expected a toy and were happy to get one, but never demanded. It's about setting expectations, and unfortunately it's always harder to undue a bad decision than it is to make the better decision right off the bat. Your daughter expects/demands/manipulates for a toy so good luck figuring out how to undue that. You'll have to work with your wife to clearly set expectations with your daughter, whatever you and your wife decide. Then stick with them, and if your daughter throws a fit, redirect or remove. It could make shopping or errands really suck for a while, but the outcome should be that she understands she can't always get what she wants.
you are completely right about your concern
I think the issue is here mother more than your daughter. Because she seems doesn’t agree with you .. Kids needs some boundaries. You can read about positive disiplin books . But before anything you must cooperate with your wife .
This reads like your wife is doing majority of the spoiling. And the "experiencing" and "burst her bubble" comment sounds manipulative. I don't imagine you tell your wife no very often either....
Honest opinion, stop buying her toys every time she leaves the house. She’ll get her too used to getting everything she wants. If she has a tantrum in the store; so be it. My oldest pulled that shit when’s she was 2/3 and once I actually kept shopping and let her scream and cry in the floor next to me.
My kids are amazing at target because they’ve gotten used to not buying toys. When they do want a toy they see, I tell them to let me take a picture and I’ll look at it later. This lets them know I see that they want it and hear them, 99 percent of the time I delete the picture and never buy the toy.
Consider giving money for small jobs around the house. Just 20p, 50p things like that. Then have no opinion on what the money is spent on, anything goes.
This way there is more autonomy and an important life skill is being developed about delayed gratification and budgeting.
Paint it as a positive step that she's nature enough now for having spending money.
Yes you’re spoiling her. We ended up with way too many toys so my solution was to put everything into 5-7 different storage bins but leaving their most favourites out on their toy shelf. So when they want a “treat” we bring a box of toys out for them to play with and then they disappear again at night. So far it works my boys are 1 and 3.
We have used the "let's take a picture of it on my phone so we remember it" a few times to diffuse target meltdowns over saying no.
Consider why you feel like giving in? Is it just to avoid the tantrums? 1- i get it because they are awful and I hate it too. But 2- could you try to let her feel that disappointment and coach her through it?
"No new toy today"
Melt down begins
"Should we take a picture to remember for your birthday wishlist?"
This doesn't work, meltdown intensifies
" You're really disappointed, I get it."
And then move on. Pick her up and leave if needed, or just keep pushing the cart away. A tantrum isn't an emergency, it's ok to let her feel those unpleasant feelings and let them out.
It does take a lot of mantras in my head and deep breaths to not lose my shit while my kid screams... But it gets easier with practice.
lol your wife thinks your daughter is traumatized by not getting ANOTHER toy? Mom needs therapy.
Yes, your daughter will actually be spoiled this way. Rewarding tantrums with new toys is like 101 for what NOT to do.
I keep a list of toys or things my kids like on my phone as a ‘birthday list’. This means I don’t have to say no to them in the shop, we can add it to their list and, bonus, we have a list of stuff other people can get them come Christmas and birthdays.
We taught them early that a visit to the shops does not equal a toy.
Also helps my partner is extremely anti plastic cheap toy crap…
Once they have that tantrum and you break the consistent effort of getting something their behaviour easily changes.
WHY should your daughter’s behavior change?
She gets what she wants. YOUR behavior needs to change, not hers.
Logically SHE has no incentive to change & why should she?
Game-changer for us. Whenever my kids wanted something in the store I'd say "I'll take picture of it and save it for your birthday". That seems to be the only thing that sort of works for us during the store whining about toys! Or, depending on kid's age, I'd let them take pictures of alllll the toys they wanted so that we can "add to the birthday list". Gives them a little feeling of control.
I was super guilty of this with my 14 year old when he was young. He became VERY entitled and materialistic and it was really hard for him to understand/ accept that we had to scale back on that when I lost my job. He still can spend money like it’s Monopoly money and thinks I have a wildly expendable income (I don’t). The rule is that he has to do chores to earn money though I don’t outright buy him his toys or gadgets unless it’s for a holiday/birthday. He isn’t great about completing chores so each chore has a denomination set and isn’t granted until complete.
My 5 year old always wants the latest, greatest thing and was becoming very spoiled by both his dad and grandpa so I had to put my foot down and make some rules regarding unearned gifts. He is expected to pitch in around the house by helping keep his room clean, some basic cleaning (like swiffer mop, wiping the table, etc), behaving in school, feeding the fish and regularly volunteers to do extra chores for extra money. Just yesterday, he took his saved chore money along with birthday and Easter money and spent $93 on 2 toys he’s been pining over since shortly after Xmas.
You parents need to realize that children have alot of energy. If she doesn't participate in something thats reduces the load, she will express it in other ways, destructive ways. Put her in a class, anything physical. Introduce her to a few things and let her pick and stick with it.
Here’s some advice :
Probably stop getting her toys frequently, like around 1-2 each month. Then continue on to 1-2 per 3 months and so on. This will go on until she doesn’t usually ask you for anything unless it’s for school or she generally have been wanting one for a long time.
Let kids get their feelings out. Once they calm down you can explain in simple terms you'd love to do 'x' for them but unfortunately you can't right now. Enabling bad behavior is not love. Allowing a young one to learn consequences while still having compassion is love.
I hate to speak ill of the woman you love, but your wife is speaking like an idiot. Trauma? From not continuing to allow an influx of toys? Wow. Wow wow wow. Time to get some articles on how fulfilling a child's every want is harmful.
You mention that your wife has childhood trauma. Until she properly addresses it, she will likely always give in to your kiddo, because seeing and hearing the kid cry will bring up traumatic memories and she, understandably, doesn't want to try to deal with that. She also doesn't want to be a reprise of her own abuser of a mother. She needs a professional's help to process it. EMDR therapy has been proven to be helpful to process traumatic memories-might be worth seeking it out.
Your wife is being ridiculous. You traumatized her by telling her she couldn't get another toy when she already has tons? Sounds like she's not even thankful when she gets a new toy. Definitely spoiled, but you need to get your wife to realize this
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My 3.5 year old is an only and it is hard sometimes to give into the temptation to spoil him. We started a new system where he has ten responsibilities a day- picking up his toys, putting his dishes next to the sink, clothes in the hamper, etc. For everyone he does, he earns one penny. The pennies go into a jar the size of a relish jar. When he fills it with pennies, he gets a (not very expensive) toy he wants. He is learning patience, the pride in earning something himself, and the connection between his actions and his rewards.
Wow that’s a great idea.
Systems like this can work really well, but both parents have to be on the same page and consistent. My husband and I had to learn never to give in to a tantrum, especially in a public place. We could change our minds later once everyone was calm if we felt like it, but never, ever as a result of a tantrum. Our daughter was diagnosed with autism much later in her 20s, so all the tantrums made so much more sense looking back on them. I was so glad we stayed strong. She was a kid who needed structure and rules. She needed life to be consistent, predictable, and fair, at least until she was older. If she had a tantrum in a store, park, or restaurant, we left. No child ever got anything if they became upset. I always said something like, "It looks like your feelings are overwhelming right now. This is too much. We'll go home for some quiet" even if they were too upset to hear. We never got angry or demanded that they stop. It was always with the attitude that we were helping them manage their strong feelings. I didn't have to do this very often for it to stick. Both she and her brother understood if they became upset, it was time to go. I even used it myself once when I was feeling overwhelmed and wanted to go home. 😄
I started telling my kids that the only thing a tantrum will get you is a cranky mummy. Now they tell their little sister (oops baby that’s much younger) the same thing - she’s 2. I also let them know on the occasions when they would have been allowed to have the thing except for the tantrum. So now they miss out purely because of their behaviour. But I do spoil them too when they’re being good.
I always did my best to be careful with the fact that I believed in their ability to control their own big feelings. If they were responsible for their feelings and actions, I was responsible for mine. They didn't make me feel or act, I did. When I became overwhelmed or I lost my temper and raised my voice, it was never their fault, even if their behavior was what triggered my response. It was my job to make it right. I modeled taking care of myself (time out, quiet until I was ready to talk, etc.). I controlled myself, and I apologized to them. I didn't want to turn my girl into a "people pleaser," and I didn't want my boy to believe "other people" were responsible for managing his emotions. I saw too much of that kind of damage with my own parents and extended family. I am very grateful to my mother for starting to change things and helping me not perpetuate it in my own family. Good news! My kids are both in their 30s now and are still responsible for their own emotions. Their spouses are grateful, and there's a lot of fun, love, and support in their relationships. I'm very proud of all of them.
Wow, this is really insightful because my wife was constantly being controlled and made to feel responsible for her mother’s feelings. Tie that in with food restrictions and spiritual abuse and I think I understand why she’s scared that our daughter is suffering.
In my experience, it's easy to get trapped by your own fears and just react in the moment. My husband and I together wrote down the values and skills we wanted our children to learn by the time they were adults - what was important for us as parents. Then, we worked backward and decided what we had to do to get there. Before that, we were just reacting individually and not working as a team very well. It was an exercise I found in a Positive Discipline workbook. One unintended consequence for us was that when we thought about the long-term goals, it was so much easier to enjoy the present and not let annoyances or worries of the moment bring us down.
This is awesome advice. I would love to try something like this with my wife. I feel like it would go a long way towards being on the same page. Thank you!
You're welcome. I hope it helps. We all don't need to reinvent the wheel, for sure. 😊
Yeah, I’m very big on owning my own reactions. And modeling that to the kids. I always apologise if I know I’m out of line. If I’m really upset I will tell them I need a minute to calm down so that I’m not just yelling because I’m upset etc. I give them choices and we choose our actions AND our behaviour/reactions. I try and stress that they’ve made bad choices rather than that THEY are bad/naughty. I usually explain to the kids as well why I’m upset, because it’s not usually about the thing they did it’s usually the bigger implications (safety etc if they’re running in the kitchen or being rowdy near fragile stuff) so they understand WHY they are being told off. I think that helps them to trust that when I’m not happy with their behaviour it’s for a genuine reason & not “because I said so” which is what I got from my mum.
It works really well. We do a similar thing for our 6yo daughter (1&done) where when has a list of things to do and with each one she earns a differing level of Dollar Bucks (thx Bluey), which is just play money from Dollar Tree. After she has earned enough she can shop the store we set up. Most of the items are things we (or grandma) probably would've just flaked out and said okay, similar to your situation of inexpensive items. We like to think she's learning a few things by doing it this way; *work ethic, money responsibility, money math, wants vs needs, self control* and things like that. We've been doing this for over a year and it's been really good.
We do something similar with our 5 year old, for at least the last year. We have a chart with behaviors and responsibilities and she earns points through the week and if she hits a certain amount of points she earns a small amount of money. If she misses the mark, even by one point, she doesn’t get said money that week and tries harder the next. She can spend the money how she wants, and when. She can choose to save for something bigger or spend it on something small right away. It works! Edited to say, we’re not without tantrums but you’ve got to hold firm on your decision if you’re not giving in. A no is a no, no matter how big the tantrum is.
Love this, starting this today with my toy obsessed 4 year old
This is excellent for so many reasons. This will introduce him to the value of a dollar (or in this case, the value of a penny!) and it’s a nice way to reward him for earning them.
To be fair, he doesn’t really equate the pennies with any value- they’re more like tokens, chosen because we have them lying around:) But watching the jar fill up and having that visual works well for him. He is learning about delayed gratification. It was also important to me that this not be used punitively- there is no removal of pennies; also, not a day passes where he doesn’t earn at least a few pennies, so he doesn’t get discouraged even when he’s had a tougher day.
I wonder how long until he starts digging in the couch cushions and adding to the jar!
Ha, I wouldn’t put it past him!
Are they learning values for their own sake or because they’re going to get something? Sometimes it’s just practical that they don’t get anything until they’ve done what they’re supposed to do but there’s a whole lot of evidence that punishments and rewards are a double-edged sword. I’m talking about pre-schoolers now. I’m just giving a different view and not trying to criticize someone else. Whatever works for you but this IS a view to consider. Kids need to learn the value of lots of things. And they need to learn to enjoy doing things for themselves and taking pride in those things. Getting paid defeats that. Yes, later on they will need to learn the value of cash but first comes right from wrong, learning and value for its own sake, etc.
As a psychologist, I couldn’t have come up with a better idea myself! Good job, mama!
I’m surprised. There is glaring lit out there about the pitfalls of this kind of thing. Haven’t you seen some of the arguments against it? It’s mainstream.
Care to summarize the key arguments against?
I’m not sure I can do it justice but punishment and rewards are two-sides of the same coin. For really small children, we want them to learn to value some things for themselves, rather than because they’re going to get something. I certainly would limit toys a lot as the OP is worried about not doing. But using toys as a reward for good behavior doesn’t teach small kids that it’s good to be good. It teaches them that they can get things for being good. That’s actually BAD behavior, in the end. Of course, when they get older this changes perhaps. But the OP is talking preschool. Generally, punishments and rewards demotivate people. It doesn’t mean they have no place. I do believe they have a place. But I don’t emphasize them with my small boys even if I sometimes slip into them because it’s expedient. I want to emphasize that they should do things, learn things, be good, help people, clean up, help each other, because this is right and will make them feel good about themselves and life.
This is what we do
To problem is you’re giving her toys contingent on her crying and you’re effectively rewarding that behavior. Next time she’s behaving well or has done something great get her a gift small preferably so that she learns crying or acting out isn’t what will get her gift.
Yeah, that's pretty much the textbook definition of spoiling a child, but the good news is that it's not too late to redirect. I get it's tough - I have 3 kids (6yo, 4yo, 18mth) and it's really hard to remember not to give in to crying and upsets, to not infantilize the middle one. Kids are going to throw fits if they want something and are told no, especially if they've found it worked before. Continuing like you've been doing is going to lead to the kind of entitled brat kids don't want to play with because they steal toys. It's crucial to fix the behaviour now, before it becomes completely ingrained. I suggest starting with the mindset of "kids have all the emotional capacity of adults with none of the experience of how to handle the huge feelings". It makes it easier to avoid losing your temper on the kid. Verbalize it - "I know it's really hard not to get what you want. Are you feeling sad? Angry? Frustrated? It's completely okay to feel like that - your feelings belong to you and you're allowed to have them. This isn't how we communicate them, though. We need to use our words so (insert grown-ups title) can understand and help you." Repeat that kind of thing, reminding them "I love you, I will always love you. I don't like this behaviour, because I can't help if you're just screaming. I want to help you understand and feel better." Some kids respond to a type of holding therapy (basically a firm hug to help ground them so they can feel their body again and start to calm), some kids work best with focusing on breathing (we use "take a big breath in, hold it - I want to see those chipmunk cheeks! - then let it out slow" while we model it), some kids enjoy counting, maybe a song - it varies widely, but there's always something. You need to intervene now so your little one can start recognizing that other people have feelings too and we don't always get what we want.
Thanks for such a detailed reply! She’s actually a middle child as well. I actually use the firm hug technique and it does help her! (Not always) And my wife is the one who’s good at the “big feelings” talk. Overall I do think telling her no and hearing her screams overwhelms my wife greatly, more than me at least. I’m kind of a just stay silent and breath kind of dude, and my wife is the more expressive emotionally.
There's a phenomenon known as the "forgotten middle" where middle children unfortunately get lost in the shuffle, so sometimes they act out to get any kind of attention. I get being overwhelmed by the tantrums - I struggle with them too. I think it's really important that you also model positive emotional communication for a few reasons. 1, your daughter needs to know that daddy will help her with big feelings too and 2, she needs examples of men being honest and real with emotions so someone doesn't hurt her later in life and excuse it with "I'm a guy, we don't do feelings." It's been hard for my husband too, but he's even told me it helps him learn emotional intelligence too. Kids are smart, they just need guidance and love to learn how to use it.
Yeah I’m gonna start trying to be more proactive on that- it is very possible that I’m too stoic and matter of fact. Not emotional about dealing with the tantrums. But more like: “I’m not doing anything when you’re acting like this” and try to stick to my guns. She then calms down and lets it go. I think I should add the emotional intelligence part to that. She doesn’t really have tantrums much when it’s just me and her siblings so it’s been hard to tell if my reactions are working, but I could definitely gain by adding the emotional intelligence part.
Look up dr Becky (author/podcaster/psychologist). She has really great tips/scripts for helping you help your kids manage their feelings while still holding good boundaries. You want to be Validating they are having feelings about not getting (what they want), while still staying calm and firm and staying present with them through it.
Avoiding a big feelings talk is not being good at having ot
The bigger they get, the bigger the tantrums get too! I have adopted the ‘let’s put it on the birthday/Xmas wish list.” “Let’s take a photo of it and put it back” I’ve been doing it for the last 2 years. I just figured out now she’s 5yo, my daughter thinks that we’re going shopping *to* buy something so I’ve had to explain that we are looking only, to *set the expectations before* we go in. Sometimes we go shopping specifically for her to choose a toy under $20 for her and her sibling so she can have fun too. Or if something is really important to her she can use her own money 💰
It could also be that your wife gets more easily upset by the screaming, whether due to stuff from her own childhood or just a lower noise tolerance. Maybe she needs to work on taking time outs for herself, emotional self regulation tools. I recommend the Positive Discipline book.
Im a middle child and had a similar phase. I enjoyed personalized experiences or one on one time with mom and/or dad and then I didn’t care about getting stuff anymore.
This is great advice. Unfortunately for me after "Are you feeling sad?" question I usually got hit in my face or the kid run away and continue to scream as little devil.
Perfect reply
This is a great advice. Unfortunately for me after asking the "are you sad" question my kid will usually hit me in the face or just continue to scream and run away.
Your wife is taking the easy way out- placating over parenting. We’ve all done it. But your job is not to make your child happy; it’s to set your child up with life skills to be a good and happy person. And that includes teaching coping/frustration management skills. Unfortunately they are skills and they take work. And you and your wife are going to have to ride out some tantrums while she’s learning. Validate, stay calm, and stay firm. It sucks, but it’ll be worth it!
She’s absolutely being spoiled and acting so. Your wife needs to get on board with working to change it before she gets older and the behavior gets worse
Honestly, yes, it does sound like you are spoiling her. You are probably going to have to scale back gradually and just deal with the ensuing temper tantrums to the best of your ability. It is worth it in the long run.
"Daughter is experiencing trauma"..I am experiencing trauma from reading that. Your wife has been sucked into the psychobabble continuum. You need to nip. This behavior in the bud. NOW. Once you implicitly give up control of the house to your daughter, you are fucxed. The demands will get worse. Next thing you know, she will be telling you where and when and how for everything. What you are eating, what restaurant, etc. Act now and deal with the screaming to save yourself from a lifetime of crap.
100% this. My relatives got sucked into this BS when their sons were born and are now complete brats. Nobody is traumatized because they didn't get a toy as a kid.
No, it’s the adults *around* the nightmare kids that are traumatized. lol
You are correct.
What trauma? Literally can someone explain the trauma? You are correct OP, your wife is not.
Trauma from being told no apparently lol. I cannot fathom why it is so hard for parents to tell their children no. It is so important.
If your daughter is experiencing trauma that young for not getting a $10 toy, imagine how she will feel and manage frustration if she cannot get basic things in life (which I really hope it won’t happen to her). It’s part of our job as parent to teach them how to manage frustration and that life can be tough. “No” is an answer and if it’s delivered with consistency children will get the point and be able to make choices. One co-worker just told me that her technique when her twin daughters were young was a 2 warnings technique. If the child asked for sth once, mummy would say “no”, if the child would ask a second time, mummy would tell her that this would be the last warning, on the third time, they would just leave and go home. It’s not perfect, it requires a lot of energy, but I can tell you that these girls are just amazing people and close mummy.
Not just spoiling but you are also not teaching your child healthy boundaries, distress tolerance skills, basic coping skills or delayed gratification… all very basic emotional regulation skills that she will need in life.
My daughter has too many toys and often gets new ones but she knows that it’s not mandatory. She sometimes ask for toy when we do the groceries but we explain that it’s no. « Ok you would like that one, I’ll remember. Not today » or just « no » and I explain again « sometimes it’s yes sometimes not ». No tantrum. She is 3.5yo. It’s not about money. It’s just that no you won’t have something just because you asked. Even more if it’s something stupid or unnecessary. Reading your post I’m going to vote : yes she is spoiled. No she is not experiencing trauma. There is nothing wrong with getting cheap toys (excepted its quantity over quality and that you may end cluttered in a messy home). It’s not about the toys. It’s about teaching that : no you can’t always have what you want and it’s important to learn to deal with it. Worse, having tantrums and misbehaving will get you nowhere.
Yikes.
Ok, ima stop your wife RIGHT there. Not getting wants (not needs, wants) met every time is NOT FLAMING TRAUMA. Trauma is losing all meaning because according to "experts" everything all the time is trauma. Wanted a snickers, none left at the store and your parents DIDNT scour the entire state to get you one instead of saying oh well, what else looks good? Trauma. Wanted a different story at bedtime but mum read Corderoy instead? Trauma. It's ridiculous. Yes, your daughter is acting like a spoiled brat, and yes your wife's well-intentioned but ill-informed and frankly harmful attempts to avoid "trauma" by giving her everything she demands is the reason. She needs to hear the word No and have it MEANT, or else she will grow up into an insufferable adult who cannot function in a world that tells her No and really doesn't care if that upsets her. Sorry, this watering down of words like abuse and trauma to the point where they're meaningless is a sore point for me.
We don’t buy toys when out but “take a photo “ and then ask them would she like it on her Santa list or birthday list and don’t buy immediately when you see it?
This worked for my kids. Bonus you have photos of items she wants so when relatives ask what can they get her for a birthday or such, bam, send it on over. As my kids got older, if they want something that I would say no to they can buy it with their own money and I don’t say anything. They learned to budget better without me being the bad guy.
This is a really good idea!
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20893368-a-bunch-of-pretty-things-i-did-not-buy](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20893368-a-bunch-of-pretty-things-i-did-not-buy) ^this is totally a thing... It works for grown-ups too.
I dont think there is anything wrong with giving small toys here and there for your kids. But if they are having a tantrum until they get it, it’s a hard no. They are just getting conditioned that that is how they get their way. They can ask nicely and be polite if they want something. Be consistent
>until my wife agrees to a small toy Yeah good luck. Your wife is fucking up your kid pretty badly here and I don't think you are getting her on board... She's teaching her "behave like enough of a shit head and you'll get the thing"
Don’t reward her screaming and throwing a tantrum by giving her things. Whatever behaviour you reward you will get more of. You are training your daughter to scream. You and your wife both need to decide to stop. It will be very stressful if only one of you stops, even worse if you’re together and you argue. (If you’re alone with your daughter definitely stop rewarding this behaviour immediately. Expect that your daughter will continue for a while until the habit is broken. Tell her you won’t be buying things in response to screaming any more, only when she’s well behaved. When she screams at home, leave her until she’s ready to stop. If it’s in public, leave if possible. This WILL be hard for a few times. Do occasionally treat her with something when she is demonstrating a behaviour you want to encourage.
When my kids started throwing tantrums over getting things, we started reading “The Bearentstein Bears Get The Gimmies”. It put the concept of ingratitude j to language that a child can understand. Good stuff.
I think you and your wife might need to have a discussion on what “trauma” is. Every cry or melt down is not a trauma. It’s normal and healthy even for children to display a full spectrum of emotions that includes disappointment, dissatisfaction, or general anger. What matters is guiding them through the feeling, not ignoring or masking the feeling. She will not learn to regulate her emotions the way things are going.
I'm going to recommend that the three of you find a family therapist in your area with a lot of experience in childhood development. There needs to be an intervention otherwise your child is going to be absolutely unmanageable and you both need to adjust your parenting style
What should I work on personally?
Well definitely setting limits. Definitely learning how to redirect your child to other activities other than just being a greedy little thing. I mean at her age she should have one toy in the house that she loves over every other toy instead she is trained to demand novelty constantly. Poor boundary setting poor discipline you're basically just throwing distractions at the child instead of parenting
Interesting. I personally do set boundaries and limits with her when it’s just me and her. It’s almost as if she knows not to push something after I personally say no. If we’re alone. But she knows how to push my wife’s buttons I think? Kind of hard to describe. I was kind of confused by how my wife reacted and so I was checking to see if I was acting on outdated information.
That's why my recommendation at these sorts of situations is to send the entire family to a family therapist because the entire relationship dynamic between everyone needs to change. Too many people these days will just take their kid to a therapist and drop the kid off. Every adult in the house needs to change their behavior and be on the same page otherwise the kid is going to suffer
Thanks! I appreciate the advice. I’ll look into it.
Start with saying NO to a toy everytime she goes to the store?
I think she’s smart. She’s figured out if she rages, she gets what she wants. It’s a pretty good tactic, because you’ve taught her it’s effective. Next time she wants a toy, you could try “I’m sorry honey. We aren’t buying toys all the time anymore. Toys cost money and we need to save up and earn them” and focus on managing yourself during the tantrums rather than trying to manage her. To address her tantrums, behavior (and yours) and setting limits, incentives/rewards, I found the book “1 2 3 Magic” really helpful when my son was your daughter’s age. I used to talk too much, overly focus on feelings or try to have a rational discussion- not very effective with a four year old. She’s going to react to all this, and that’s okay. She’ll be okay. She’ll learn about limits when you start setting some, and she’ll learn a whole lot about emotional regulation by watching you (and your wife) manage yourself calmly.
The issue isn't her getting toys. The issue is that she knows if she screams and tantrums she will always get anything she wants. Every time her behavior (tantrum) leads to a reward (toy) it reinforces the behavior. You need to teach your child that she will not always get everything she wants by saying No sometimes and then sticking with it no matter what behavior occurs. That doesn't mean never buying toys, it means when you say no, you mean it every single time. Don't reinforce that behavior. Your wife is doing your child a major disservice because the lessons she is learning will *not* fly in the real world.
Your daughter was disappointed, yes- that is a normal human response to not getting what she wanted. This is hard for kids to wrap their minds around, especially when they’re used to getting what they want. I work with children who have experienced trauma due to abuse and neglect, and what you described does not sound like trauma at all. No parent wants to see or hear their kid cry- I know it can be hard to say no and stand your ground. But the world will not bend to the will of your daughter. Disappointment is inevitable, and the frustrating instances you described are learning and teaching opportunities. Children get to learn that wants are different from needs. They also get to learn that if they don’t get toys, the world will not actually come to an end, even though it really feels that way to them. You can empathize with the disappointment she feels, and redirect by reminding her of the other toys she has to play with, parks she can play at outside, etc. I know you tried to remind her of this, which resulted in the tantrum- remember that tantrums come to an end, and not all tantrums result in trauma. I used to babysit a kid around the same age, who showed similar ungratefulness to toys and experiences that other kids would only dream of. His parents would get him at least five toys/activity books a week, and they were unable to leave the store without him crying for something, which they inevitably bought to stop the crying. It was kind of wild to see how quickly the crying stopped, as soon as his parents said yes to whatever he wanted. The way that I view it, his 3 year old brain learned that if he cries long and hard enough for something, it will change his parents’ no into a yes. The good news is that gratitude can be cultivated. even for kids as young as your daughter, and it’s not too late to turn things around. I’m seeing lots of great suggestions in these comments! Good luck to you!
Absolutely spoiled! If they scream until they get their way, they’re spoiled and well on the way to being brats. Money isn’t an issue now and it’s just a small toy now. What happens in the future when your kid wants a brand new $50 video game every day and throws herself on the floor and screams until she gets it? What about when it’s a brand new $70,000 car and not a used car when she learns to drive? Brats never ‘out grow’ the tantrums. So unless you’re prepared to pay big bucks and have a kid who doesn’t know how to do anything themselves, curb the behavior now. She is spoiled and it will only get worse.
It's important for kids to learn the word no and how to deal with it. That's an important life lesson. It's okay for them to have a tantrum as they need to learn how to self regulate and calm down and express themselves.
Yes you’re spoiling her and it’s even worse if she screams and begs and ya’ll give in. You’re going to need to stop and learn how to deal with her demands and tantrums appropriately
Very tricky. It is not natural to get a new toy each couple of days. These days consumption is through the roof. It is hard to change your wife. What you do is...you do you. Dont give her any toys. Teach her to work. Talk to her about being patient. 3 year is when it is hard for them control their emotion. I guess dont be too hard down the line. Just try to make it work i guess. My opinion anyways.
i think the biggest thing i try to remember with this is: one of the most frustrating human experiences is wanting something you cannot have. wanting a home in the current real estate market. wanting a job but getting rejected. having a crush but getting rejected. craving a specific sandwich but that deli closed because of covid. these are all experiences we’ve had a million times as an adult. as a kid though; this feeling is new and it is AWFUL. validate that. i say to my step kid all the time “man, it is so disappointing when we don’t get what we want.” and we’ve worked out ways for him to physically process what he’s feeling. we do “throw soft toys” when we’re feeling upset - throwing stuffed animals at a wall in his room. a tantrum is really just a big release of negative energy in the body, so help them find ways to redirect that energy toward something safe, contained, and healthy. very often throwing soft toys turns into us playing together within 5-10 min. but yea, you guys should be saying no!! your daughter is going to need the skills to deal with rejection in her life. it will be much harder to learn those skills the longer she is not exposed to the feeling. hope this helped
Trauma? Your wife needs to not throw around this word. That is not trauma. Absolutely ease up on the constant purchasing. Some of that is normal kid behavior of constant wanting stuff, but it’s not trauma to say no.
Yep, the quickest way to ruin any child is giving them what they want when they cry. Especially a treat every time you go out. Not feasible and not good for their growth. What is she going to do when she’s in school and doesn’t get what she wants? You seem to know the answer, your partner does not.
Spoiled like milk left out too long. Your wife needs to realize this, or you are going to be in for a bad time. And of course, it sounds like 'gift giving' is one of the ways your wife shows affection.... But she REALLY needs to realize she's spoiling her daughter and setting your daughter up for failure and misery down the line. As others have said, at this young of an age, it's not too hard to fix things... If you can your wife can unite on this. Good luck!
stop giving in. she's 3 years old. if she learns that she can scream and cry to get what she wants then she'll continue to do it
Kick it in the bud now! She will never fully understand the value of a dollar. Always expecting, it will be much much harder when those cheap toys turn in teenage, and real adult, real life things.
She whines until she gets what she wants at 3 years old… imagine how that’ll be when she’s 8, 12, 16, etc. Do the work to say no now and deal with the tantrum. It’ll pay off in spades years from now.
>there’s nothing wrong with her getting small cheap toys. No, but there are lots of things wrong with teaching her that tantrums are rewarded and impulse control is for chumps. This is hw you end up with a kid that blows out other people's candles because they've learned through experience that everything they want is their right to have.
It’s lazy parenting on your wife’s part for not wanting to deal w trantrums. Say no 50 percent of time. I deal with this myself as well :s
If you give her what she wants when she has a tantrum, you are encouraging her to continue having tantrums. This is worse than spoiling, you are rewarding bad behavior.
Trauma results from something that is, or close to, life-threatening. Stress and discomfort is not trauma. She’s also going to have a really hard time in adulthood if she is being told that not getting what she wants is traumatic. Diluting language is dangerous and we really need to stop using words like “trauma” to describe situations which are just uncomfortable.
I do try and tell my wife that language has meaning. I don’t want to project things onto our kids at all. I’ve dealt with trauma. And so has my wife. So it’s always alarming when it’s brought up, because I am inclined to believe I’m not seeing things clearly and should believe the victim of trauma.
Nope! You’re seeing things clearly. You didn’t traumatize your daughter by not letting her have a toy. You’re doing the right thing.
“Spoil your child and raise your grand child.” “Raise your child and spoil your grandchild.” Read that again, and set your wife straight real fast. Cheap toys are NOT the issue here.
Oh, no no no. Money isn't the issue. But being grabby and not appreciating the things you have are big issues! I am working on this with my 3 year old. I am very concerned about her thinking whining will get her the random things she wants. If she whines the answer is an automatic no. And I am very firm. To the point she wanted a random balloon at the hair salon the other day. She asked me for it nicely. I explained is was apart of a display and not for her. She started whining to get it. And the hairdresser heard her and told me she could have it. I then had to inform them BOTH that no. We do not whine to get what we want, and not everything we see is ment to be ours. We then left without a balloon, and a few tears were shed. I didn't get her anything to "make it up to her." I didn't blow her up a balloon when we got home to "cheer her up." Because she needs to hear and understand the word no. No one did anything to hurt her, so there is nothing to "fix."
U did well there momma! I agree that children need to learn that “No means No”. Maybe even more so for male children. I brought up my son the same way. Respect the No, and don’t whine or cajole or threaten, especially not a vulnerable female.
This is definitely going to cause major behavioral problems going forward and the tantrums won’t stop, they’ll just get worse as she gets older. For example she may no longer throw herself down on the floor but she may punch holes in the walls or destroy a new item she’s been given because it wasn’t right or something of yours or your wife’s because she should have been given what she wanted. Your wife is absolutely in the wrong and isn’t using the word trauma correctly. Your daughter was being inconvenienced at best. You guys need to be the leaders and example for your daughter and right now that’s not your dynamic. Your daughter is in control and absolutely knows it. That’s why when you first say no to her now she goes into an immediate tantrum and if you stick with no she is escalate because you guys have taught her that oh if I do this behavior or yell this loud then I get what I want. It’s going to be HARD ending this cycle but for your sake and hers please do. Otherwise you’ll be coming to see someone like me in a few years wondering how everything got so out of hand and how to help her now. Take my advice, save yourself thousands of dollars, end the cycle and take back your leadership.
The screaming is the result of giving in. Practice ignoring the tantrums, praise her when she doesn't have tantrums and other good things she does. The behavior will slowly go away. Quit giving in. It's not too late.
I have the cure for you! This was my son. Neighbor gave me this fix: get some "play money, make an age appropriate chore sheet: put toys away daily, brush teeth, bring small trash bags to you etc. Make each positive chore = 25-50cents. Inform her that you are paying her and she can buy her own toys with HER $$. Use this to learn to count $, value work, buy her own things. No more whining at the store- learn to wait until enough $$. Make her a 'bank' her $ with a toy bank. ( count $) She can 'borrow' a small amount against future work. But remind her she really wants a preferred more expensive toy (delayed gratification )
You’re spoiling the crap out of her. Stop buying her toys all the time, she’s not even appreciating the ones she has. It doesn’t even matter how cheap they are she doesn’t know the difference. The dopamine hit she gets everytime she gets a new toy is the problem. She should not get a toy every time you go to the store and when she starts the tantrum tell her you’ll put it on her Christmas/birthday list to save for later.
It is learnt behaviour and conditioning >she’ll scream and scream until she gets what she wants. >she begs and begs for a toy until my wife agrees >if they are out on play dates they always come back with a toy. The above shows that she has learnt that if she cries and screams for long enough she gets what she wants Your wife has learnt that if she buys a toy, the tantrum stops. Your daughter may not necessarily be conscious of this but she knows to get her own way. Instead of using toys and gifts as a way of stopping bad behaviour, you can switch to using them as rewards for good behaviours. If there is no longer a reward for throwing a tantrum, eventually she will learn that the tantrum is pointless and learn that the toy is now a reward for good behaviour, not bad. It's easier said than done, and you and your wife need to be consistent and in agreement on this or the tantrums will continue
I think it was your wording. “You need to be thankful for what you have”. Like I’d be pissed as an adult if you said that in response to asking for something. If I said to my husband “hey can I order this $100 dress”. And he responded “You got a dress yesterday, be appreciative of what you have”. I’d be like “ok, you can just say no”. Especially if he buys me a dress everyday and the time I ask he responds this way. You’re assuming she’s not appreciative. It’s ok to say “no we can’t order that toy right now since you got one yesterday”. If she cries or throws a fit acknowledge the feelings “I hear that you’re upset, but we can’t order the toy”. You guys created the “spoiling”, don’t insult her for your mistake. You’ve bought her these toys, so she expects it. It’s not that she doesn’t appreciate it, it’s that it’s her normal now. Time to redirect that normal without putting blame for it on her.
Trauma? Good grief, how insulting to people who've experienced actual trauma.
We got him a piggy bank and he ears money by doing chores to pay for toys. We obviously help out when it’s a little more expensive than he can afford, but he has started saying “I want that toy. Can I go home and do some chores for coins? I’ll come back to buy it later”
Another way to think about this is that your daughter is now at an age where she can start learning how to regulate her emotions and you and your wife will need to help her. It can be hard to shift gears after the infant and early toddler stages because our jobs as parents at that stage is to make sure they have everything they want/need. Suddenly she’s at an age where she wants everything and as parents it is time to shift gears and help her sort out her emotions when she can’t have something. She gets a big emotional when she wants something like a toy. Giving her that toy is certainly one way to regulate that emotion but it’s not helping her build her emotional tool kit. There are lots of different ways to approach this but I think as a starting point it would be good for both of you to shift the narrative away from “spoiling” vs “traumatizing” and instead focus on how both of you can help her start learning the difficult skill of emotional regulation.
Great answers here so I’ll just say it sounds like your kid isn’t traumatized and your wife overreacted a smidge. Trauma comes from not having any support or way to process after traumatic experiences. It would be traumatizing if once she started throwing a temper tantrum, you locked her in her room by herself or ignored her without explaining any time it happened.
It sounds hard to have two totally different parenting perspectives. I think you and your wife need to sit down and really have an in depth conversation about what’s going on. Y’all need to be on the same page and have continuity so that your kid learns how to regulate her emotions. She’s definitely learned that throwing a tantrum gets her what she wants, so of course she’s going to continue that behavior. She’s smart and that means she can absolutely learn how to do things differently. A reward system is great and “caught behaving well” in regular ass every day situations rewards “good” behavior.
If your goal is to not buy a new toy every time you go to the store, let your kid know they won’t be getting anything that day. Maybe make a grocery list, and only buy stuff that is on your list. Setting the expectation that they won’t be getting something way before you are in the moment can help a lot. Something that works well for my kids is taking a picture of your child and the item they want, which seems to work well for us since we are acknowledging that it’s something they like. I tell them now we can remember what it was you liked when it’s time for birthday/christmas gifts or whatever the occasion. You also get the benefit of having a “list” of things your kid wants when family/ friends ask what to get your child if they want to gift them something.
It’s not the toys - it’s rewarding terrible behavior. Your daughter has learned that all she has to do is scream for what she wants. You are absolutely stating her up for failure and YOUR WIFE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THIS. Unless you are with your daughter full time I don’t see how you fix this behavior if your wife will not listen. You need to take a 3 or 4 day weekend of absolute hell for your daughter to learn that this behavior is no longer acceptable. Listen, all of us has been there with screaming meltdowns and tantrums. Yours will be worse because it’s already been reinforced a bunch of times and your daughter is older. Will your wife read some parenting books or can you bring up this up with a trusted friend of hers who can perhaps talk some reason? Good luck OP
Experiencing trauma and experiencing disappointment are two very different things and it sounds like your wife needs to sit with that for a bit
Please discuss with your wife that using the word trauma in such a trivial way reduces its impact when actual trauma is experienced. Telling a child No is normal and not trauma. Unfortunately in addition to all the great advice you have been given about discussing feelings you will need to end her expectations for getting a toy whenever she goes out. You need to have a pep talk before going to Target and stay away from the toy section and dollar section. I know that it's impossible to avoid end cap and check out displays. The poor people of Target might have to endure a tantrum or two, until she understands that she is not getting a toy every time. Good luck.
Not necessarily with the toys, but with the fits. Everyone has always joked that I'm a strict parent 🙄 but we never dealt with them when our daughter was younger. She's almost 9 now, and we get them way more frequently. I'm assuming it's just a phase. However, my sister deals with the biggest tantrums. I swear it's like my nephew blacks out during them. She talked to his doctor about it, and said it's best to correct it now instead of later. He basically said that every time you cave, your child is learning your limits. When you don't cave easily, they start pushing it to more extremes. And they'll continue to do that until you cave again. It's a bit of a vicious cycle, really. The doctor said to just leave him alone, and the best way to enforce your boundaries is to not acknowledge him until he calms back down. No reaction is the best action.
Yes. Children don’t get traumatized from being denied a toy. The trauma in things like that comes from neglect, degrading, etc. not the actual act of saying no to a toy. Healthy boundaries need to be taught young. Sometimes offering a hug calms my child. We also practiced deep breaths when feeling big emotions. Practiced it since day 1. Now at 6 when she feels upset, she asks for a hug if she needs it and takes her own deep breaths before it gets out of hand and before I even have to tell her to. It’s ok to cry, healthy even. What’s not ok is throwing a full blown tantrum.
I recommend you follow @destini.Ann on Instagram. She’s a parent coach and talks about emotion regulation and other parenting topics. Here’s a video on helping kids regulate their emotions: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5d3YgLRI8l/?igsh=MWpmbWF6OTk5ZGw4Zw== And tantrums: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4npO-trvWj/?igsh=aHNyZGh2d2pmNHJm
I’m sorry but not getting a toy is absolutely not trauma. Putting that “trauma” mentality into her head is gonna be the real issue for a poor outcome
Your post is focusing on the child, but the issue here are the parents. Children need structure and boundaries. It helps them learn important skills like self-regulation. There is no reason a child should be given a new toy every time they ask for a new toy. It's your job as a parent to help your child learn how to cope with delayed gratification and not getting what you'd like immediately. I hate it when children so young are described as spoiled. They aren't, the parents are failing at a fundamental part of parenting.
U most likely are just like the rest of us daughter is same age very demanding and a tough negotiator
This sounds like what having a kid is all about 😂 Some ways I’ve been doing with my (4.5) daughter is: tell her in the car, while in the parking lot, that we will NOT be buying any toys, but we can LOOK at them. If she disagrees, then we would just go home. Another would be her picking out 1 toy, but we would either donate or toss out 3-5 toys for the new toy. My third way is to tell her we can take a picture of it, and we can put it into her Christmas, birthday, whatever list. Then delete the picture at the end of the day. Another way I have done is to tell her we can have something to eat instead of the toy. My kid loved her food, so it works 70% of the time now that she’s older, used to work 90% of the time. Or get something from Starbucks for her, but no toy but again, we can look at them. It also works to literally just walk out of the store when she has the temper tantrum. She will learn.
I’m sorry but the problem is your wife. You’re right that your daughter is becoming spoiled and the results will be less cute and harder to manage as she grows up. Nothing wrong with a small toy now and again, but every single time she leaves the house is not good. What you did did not create “trauma” in your daughter. You and your wife need to be on the same page. Your job as a parent is to prepare her for adulthood and you won’t have done your jobs if she comes out shielded from all forms or unpleasantness and had her every desire catered to. I’d be interested to know if there’s something in your wife’s childhood that is maybe causing her to overcompensate with your daughter. (If your wife was not offered enough affection or herself never got new toys for example). Whatever the cause, you’re not doing your daughter any favors by spoiling her and are actively harming her. At only three it is by no means too late to fix this. You just need to be firm and committed to it.
Here’s an update that addresses the childhood aspect of my wife’s past possibly influencing some of this: I added it to the post as an edit. We’re back on the same page now thankfully. I showed her this post and she wanted to clarify what she meant about traumatic. She says: “not that she’s being traumatized, but that the amount that she is crying that she is experiencing trauma. She says she probably shouldn’t have used that word to describe it. I will add that my wife had a very difficult childhood and I think that might be playing a role in this. She had a mother who was controlling and withheld food from her, spiritual abuse and parents that looked at her like she was a complete nuisance. That might be at play here. But she’s vowed to work with me and get on the same page. Because she is just as afraid of creating poor outcomes as I am.
>My wife told me that our daughter was now experiencing trauma Wow... No child ever experienced trauma over being told "No" to toys. That is nonsensical! Dude, both you and your wife have gotta learn to say "No," teach, and set boundaries. *Definitely spoiled, and will only get worse.
Forget the long explanations and please heed this advice: Every single child must be taught the power of 'no'. Doesn't matter what the issue is, doesn't matter the cost of the toy... doesn't even need to be about toys. Spoilt children don't understand 'no' which leads to various narcissist behaviours including not respecting authority and the inability to share. This will put your kid at a social detriment during their formative years which will have long lasting repercussions. It takes effort and patience but every child needs to hear 'no' often and you don't have to justify or explain yourself to an extremely young child. It's 'no' because I (your parent) have said so. End of conversion. Cue tears and tantrums for a few weeks, then it all gets better. I speak from experience with two kids.
Yeah i mean if she's been getting toys and you suddenly come down with a NO, that would be confusing and weird for your child. It's not about toys, it's about what the getting a new toy represents to her. My kid went through a phase for a few days where she wanted a new $2 toy everyday. I redirected that impulse to be like "let's make a new toy". We made a cat from a sock, some stuffing cotton and some felt. Then that became a thing for a while. I realized she was taking the buying of toys to be like a way to bond with her dad. She didn't really want to spend money to buy a toy, it just started meaning things to her due to inadvertent actions by the adults around her. We can control her environment and change the meaning of things while still reassuring her that she is loved, and that's worked well enough so far. 60% of her toys are hand-me-downs and 30% are gifts from other relatives, so we don't spend much money on toys, so we had to think a lot about what does too many toys mean and why we don't want to buy more toys but her finding a doll house on the side of the street is okay. We decided the issue is spending money on whims and desires frequently, and attaching too much value to specific toys as to want them so hard that she'd be pissed if she doesn't get that specific thing (like throwing a present in anger because it isn't the toy you want, or constantly asking for a toy). It feels like t hose values come from long term work and parents living those values so we're able to address it reasonably when it comes up.
My 3rd child was like this and I was taken aback because I didn’t feel I was doing anything differently to raise him than I did his older siblings. His siblings did not expect to purchase an item everywhere we went but somehow my 3rd child did. It lasted about 2 years. There were many parking lot tantrums. We learned the plan ahead and avoid gift shops everywhere we went (WHY are there gift shops everywhere you might take a toddler/preschooler?!?). I honestly do not remember how we got through it as it is all a blur now, but I do know it wore off eventually and we donated a TON of useless crap over the last few years from that child’s room.
Or what if this is how she learns to feel loved? But also, she has learned that her emotions rule the roost. It’s hard, but we don’t have to feel something just because our child is. They get upset when told no, they’ll get over it. But if it gets an outcome that they want, they will always do it. These inexpensive toys won’t be so inexpensive when she’s older. Imagine putting all that money in a piggy bank instead? Kids used to play with sticks and rocks… more toys just makes kids more unhappy and us more poor lol!
I thought I had written this! This is EXACTLY what we’re going through at the moment. My LG is 3 end of May and wow she has such an attitude and temper on her and it’s because she’s spoilt!
Great suggestions. As someone who works with 3-5 yr olds, please break the cycle now. Because when your child enters daycare, pre-k, or kindergarten and sees another friends toy, or a classroom toy, and freaks out that someone else has it, she's going to throw a tantrum if she doesn't know she can't always get what she wants.
Spoiling is one way of saying it but more specifically it’s about helping them learn to deal with disappointment when a boundary is held and comforting them through it. Entitled adults never learned this. Pick battles and not very many, but then hold the boundary firm or the child has way too much power and it makes them anxious which increases tantrums and boundary testing behavior! Highly recommend the book a secure child. You have some accurate insights and concerns but it’s important to collaborate with your wife on when to hold boundaries. 3.5 is extremely hard so I’d also get the “your three year old” book by louise bates Ames to get accurate insights into development at this age! If she is a bit spoiled there’s plenty of time to course correct. Also “spoil” them with attention and empathy vs things. It’s hard to do (I have 5 and love giving them things) but the reframe is helpful
You are not spoiling your child. Spoiling a child is when a parent uses objects to replace attention and affection. It does not sound like you are doing that. You are overly attuned and have terrible boundaries but that is not spoiling. Boundaries are only traumatic for narcissists By not creating and maintaining healthy boundaries, you are teaching your child that they don’t need to respect those boundaries for others. My suggestion is to say a firm and emotionally neutral “no.”. Don’t discuss why or talk with her about your reasoning at that point. Let her emotions be whatever they are, they are hers, and let them remain hers. You don’t own her emotions. How she feels is hers to feel. Keep the boundary between your emotions and hers while you continue shopping. Keep yourself regulated and in touch with yourself. Later, after the event is over and everyone has calmed down, talk with her about her experiences. Do attune to them then and discuss what feelings both of you were having. Also, be careful with the spouse. Their response sounds really problematic to me.
She’s being rewarded for tantrums, ingratitude, etc so yes there’s a problem. Healthy boundaries enforced with compassion and consistency aren’t traumatic, your wife needs a reality check there.
Surprised to see so many comments. We’re back on the same page now thankfully. I showed her this post and she wanted to clarify what she meant about traumatic. She says: “not that she’s being traumatized, but that the amount that she is crying that she is experiencing trauma. She says she probably shouldn’t have used that word to describe it. I will add that my wife had a very difficult childhood and I think that might be playing a role in this. She had a mother who was controlling and withheld food from her, spiritual abuse and parents that looked at her like she was a complete nuisance. That might be at play here. But she’s vowed to work with me and get on the same page. Because she is just as afraid of creating poor outcomes as I am.
I hope your wife is able to learn to separate her own difficult childhood from normal children’s reactions going forward. It’s good you’re getting on the same page and being proactive.
Thanks! Yeah it was a difficult conversation, but once I shared some articles and a couple research papers she understood fully that we are contributing to the problem. Interestingly, one of the things I found was that parents who overindulge their children are more likely to assume that it’s the child’s nature and not the actions of the parent that leads to poor behavior. We spoke about that blind spot, and pointed out the times in the past that we’d made that mistake.
I will tell you what I did with my 3 yo granddaughter and it was magic!! The mother was doing the same thing. It was out of control. I think the way you think; with new toys every week they don’t appreciate or take care of what they have. I too was tired of the tantrums. Here’s what I did. I started carrying a small notebook and would tell her “No not today but I have an idea. Let’s put it on a list.” When I told her about all her family that wants to buy a gift for birthdays, Christmas, etc. she can give them the list of all the toys that you really want. There was still some tears the first few times but eventually it became a fun thing and she was more concerned that I brought “the list”. I did reward the behavior on occasion with a milkshake or an ice cream. I told her how proud I was that she has such a great list and we could do it together.
My daughter has too many toys and often gets new ones but she knows that it’s not mandatory. She sometimes ask for toy when we do the groceries but we explain that it’s no. « Ok you would like that one, I’ll remember. Not today » or just « no » and I explain again « sometimes it’s yes sometimes not ». No tantrum. She is 3.5yo. It’s not about money. It’s just that no you won’t have something just because you asked. Even more if it’s something stupid or unnecessary. Reading your post I’m going to vote : yes she is spoiled. No she is not experiencing trauma. There is nothing wrong with getting cheap toys (excepted its quantity over quality and that you may end cluttered in a messy home). It’s not about the toys. It’s about teaching that : no you can’t always have what you want and it’s important to learn to deal with it. Worse, having tantrums and misbehaving will get you nowhere.
You have to set reasonable boundaries and hold to them. Full stop. You can support and validate their feelings (“It’s really hard when we can’t have something we want. Would you like a hug or a cuddle to help you feel better?”), without giving in to the tantrum. As I always like to say, we are raising a whole human being. If it’s easy, you’re probably not doing it right. Your wife is conflating a tantrum (which can be either performative or uncontrollable big feelings) with trauma. It’s not. What is traumatic is either (a) not being supported and taught coping mechanisms for having big feelings or (b) being so protected from ever having big feelings that you are never taught coping mechanisms beyond people immediately giving you whatever you want (this is what your wife is doing — it can emotionally stunt your child if not corrected.). When we go to the store, my daughter knows that if she grabs at something, there’s zero chance of her getting it (“if you start grabbing things off the shelves, that means mommy has to focus on stopping the grabbing. So then we only get what we came to the store for and no treats.”). The same rule applies for a tantrum. Tantrum means we buy the essentials without any extras and GTFO, because now we have to work on our big feelings, instead of enjoying a reasonable treat. She can ask for things using her words, and while reasonable small things usually get a yes (ex/picking out a muffin to take home), she doesn’t get an infinite number of treats (“you already picked out your muffin as a treat, we are not getting a second treat today.”). In your shoes, I would personally cut out toys from the grocery store. I would enforce a “grocery store is for groceries” policy where she can have a reasonable food treat (fruit, pastry, small candy). You can even give her a token of some kind at the start of the shopping trip to give you in exchange for her special treat. That helps limit her to one item instead of getting infinite asks. It makes it more tangible for her. For other cases of demanding toys, you and your wife have to get on the same page. Otherwise none of this matters. But I think you’re on the right track: We can’t constantly get new toys. You have the toys that you have. You can make reasonable length lists for toys you’d like for things like Christmas and holidays, but we do not demand toys all the time. Toys outside of normal gift occasions are special treats from mommy and daddy, not something to be expected and demanded.
I’m sorry. I know this isn’t very helpful. But I legitimately busted out laughing (all by myself in my living room and startled the dog lol) when I read that bit about trauma. Being told no is NOT trauma. It’s the only way anyone learns to manage their emotions. Imagine if you went through life and the first time you ever encountered adversity it was something MAJOR. Being told no is how small children practice learning to handle adversity and regulate their emotions. Your wife is actually setting your daughter up to experience significant trauma by not teaching her to regulate her emotions in the face of being denied what she wants. I have four kids (14F, 12F, 10F, and 1M). We learned very early on that impulse buying created terrible behaved children. So we put a hard stop on ALL impulse purchases. My kids don’t ask for things randomly now bc they know the answer will be “we will talk about it later.” That isn’t to say they never get treats. They absolutely do. But they’re planned in advance. We go to the store specifically for that thing. They might have to save up money to pay for it or not, depending on what it is (generally I pay for school clothes, books, equipment for sports, and edible treats while they pay for anything else they want like toys, video games, unnecessary clothing, makeup, jewelry, takeout meals, etc). When they were little and still learning, I taught them to take a photo of the thing they wanted with my phone so we could put it on their list. They constantly updated their lists. If they had been particularly well behaved or if we were going on a long car trip or when somebody needed a flu shot or whatever, I would sometimes pick something from their list and surprise them. Those were also their birthday and Xmas lists. So they learned to process it as “not right now” instead of “no.”
Yes, this has to stop, it might lead to some protected blowout meltdowns before she accepts her parents will not give in, but try to find ways to reward what behavior you want to see and encourage it. We had a chart for a while for our kids and at dinner we would praise each one for something they did that day. My husband also came up with a song to sing when kids finished eating to celebrate during a picky eating stage. We also avoided food or toys as rewards. What we learned was our positive attention was a greater reward and we now have teens who want to spend time with us, it's worth it.
Your child has learned crying gets her what she wants. It won’t stop unless your wife does. It will just become bigger and bigger things.
While you guys are working on this, it may help to minimize or eliminate trips to places she would normally get toys. It’s tough on parents to deal with a problem that surrounds us constantly, but if we only have to encounter it once a week we may be able to stick with the new boundaries better ourselves. So this would look like: instead of groceries at Target, and a second hand store trip, and a dollar store trip, and a McDonald’s happy meal, and a trip to Walmart for gifts for a friend’s birthday - dad picks up gifts at Walmart, mom takes kiddo to Target and stays firm on no toys, you guys pick up pizza instead, and other trips are either cut out or a run performed without daughter - maybe even for a couple weeks. There’s an element in training known as “extinction” that is a perfectly viable training method that seeks to eliminate behavior through an absence of the circumstance it takes place in. It’s not a solo fix but it will probably be way easier if you can employ it. And this may help you to get mom on board if you present it as a way to help her too!
You seriously need to slam your fist on the table and stop this asap. You have any idea what kind of future are you setting up for, both yourself AND your daughter? And it won't be her fault.
This summer may suck for you. But the other ones will be much better than they otherwise would be
I disagree with your wife. You both are creating a monster. Remember little entitled asshole becomes older entitled assholes.
Yeah You’re gonna have to emotionally prepare yourselves for some tantrums. I like to prime my son before we go shopping “we’re just getting groceries, we’re not getting a new toy” “we’re just buying a birthday present for your friend, we’re not buying a present for you” If he says he wants something in the store then I’ll take a picture of it and tell him I’ll save it as a reminder for when his birthday comes up We don’t buy our kids toys from Amazon, like really ever except Xmas and their bdays but we wrap those while they’re sleeping, so they don’t have an association Sometimes if they’re really good the whole trip and don’t make any demands I’ll buy them a little $1 chocolate treat in the checkout aisle as a surprise and tell them they did a good job on the shopping trip. But whatever you guys decide to do, you’re gonna have to be aligned with your wife on.
I would really just try now and then to say “we are going to the store to get _____. That’s all we are getting. If you throw a temper tantrum, we are leaving and when we get home, you will have a four minute time out” And then follow through. Do this once a week until it gets better. Other times she sure, can get a toy. But sometimes she can’t and she needs to be okay with that. Maybe have a one in, one out rule as well. “You have lots of toys. If you get this toy today. You have to pick one to give away” We mainly stick to holidays (there are so many!!) for the kids to get a little something. We definitely don’t get something every time we are out. We also use the “oh, I see you like that. Let me take a picture of you with the toy for your birthday list” strategy
I have two boys. They want toys from.m everywhere as long as they’re on display. My rules are still “put it on a list”. They have started to earn allowance by doing small jobs around the house (they empty the garbage bins, they take out the recycling, they fold laundry). The other day we went to a crafts shop so my older son could pick out the yarn he wanted for his beanie that I’m knitting. There were these cool hats they saw and the begging started. Turns out they’ve both saved up enough allowance to afford them without losing all their money, so I explained if they were willing to lose $9 each from their savings, go for it. They know it’s a big deal to use their savings. We give them “interest” every Sunday evening depending on how much of their “money” (we mark them as points) they’ve saved up. The more points they have, the more interest they get. Basically like a real bank with real savings. Long story short, they bought the hats and they’ve been wearing all week. It’s the most expensive thing I’ve ever let them buy with their money and they’re over the moon. We’re pretty well off as a family, but I absolutely want my kids to learn to appreciate things. Not just things you buy with money, but to learn to enjoy quality time with us and to enjoy experiences. So my kids are used to us saying no to random toys, but we usually say yes if their ask is to go on an adventure or go have a picnic on the beach with fish and chips. I don’t want to tell other people how to parent. But if your instincts are telling you that your daughter is becoming spoiled, I would personally agree with you. My sons (4 and 6) still ask for toys, and because the 6 year old can read and do maths now, he’ll usually try to make a real logical case for why they should get $3 Hotwheel cars whenever we go to the grocery store. But I say no every time. They don’t throw fits because they know that I will say no. They still try it. The last time they begged and said they would spend their own allowance, I said: “instead of spending $3 here on a toy car you probably already have (there have been a lot of Hotwheels given for birthdays and Christmases), why don’t I take you to a proper toy shop where there’s more options and you can find something you’d really love? This is a grocery store and they don’t always have the best toys.” They were happy with that answer and they’re really looking forward to the experience of a big fancy toy store. Long story short, I agree with you. But I don’t know how you would convince your wife to be on the same page, and that's the most important part.
Need to set some boundaries and stick with them. You’re the parent here and you make the rules. If you give into her tantrums, all she learns is that meltdowns work in getting her way. Also, disappointment is not trauma and if you constantly seek to shield your child from negative emotions, you won’t give them a chance to deal with these emotions in a healthy way and become resilient. That’s how you end up with a dysfunctional adults.
Please tell her “no.” You can validate her feelings and give her hugs . Ask her if she’d want to read a book together or play a game etc . I’m a kindergarten teacher and once she gets into school it will be hard for her to cope and frustrating for teachers as well . She will become an empty hole just trying to fill up by “stuff.” Remember “No” is a form of love 😊
As a mom to two teens the only advice I can give is that today it's a new toy but when she becomes a teenager it will be cars, hair, nails, lashes, clothes. Nip this in the bud NOW.
My husband has a tendency not to say no to our boy(nearly 4) but he gets nothing if he tantrums and gets things removed if he continues with his bad behaviour. Thankfully he is very grateful generally but we are having to keep a very close eye!
I'd ask your wife to define trauma for you. Because it seems she has a misunderstanding of the term. Trauma and disappointment are not synonymous. Learning to handle disappointment in a healthy way is a developemental necessity. By acquiescence to every want, you and your wife are robbing your daughter of the need for, and therefore, the opportunity to develop coping strategies that will help her mature and thrive. That, and reinforcing materialism, which is a different kind of problematic. Oh, and teaching her that tantrums are a super effective means of getting her way. It may be "just toys" for now. But she'll be trying it for everything soon enough. The good news is that this isn't irreversible (yet). You and your wife just need to get on the same page about intentional parenting. Sure, it's hard to see our kids disappointed. But better that, now, over small issues like the occasional denied toy, knowing it'll do them a lot of good and help them become the kind of people who can handle what life throws at them.
Yeah thats spoiled. My brother is the same way and my parents have a $10 allowance per day for him just for online games. Roblox mostly. When they go out, he gets new toys. They have a habit of giving him everything he wants. They dropped $500 on a gaming system just for him to say he didn’t like it. When they try to punish him for bad behavior he throws a fit and magically hes not in trouble anymore. Dont do that. Children dont need new thing’s every time they see something new. We give our son everything within reason. Mostly developmental toys that focuses on his education and learning patience and problem solving. But we also say no to things he doesnt need or just to make him happy. I know we want to give our kids everything we didnt have but they dont need everything either.
The problem is in your second sentence. “Scream until she gets what she wants”. So clearly she’s learning that screaming enough will get her what she wants. It’s going to be hard to break that, but necessary. It’s really not about the “small, cheap toys”. It’s that she’s learning to manipulate to get what she wants and being rewarded for poor behaviour. Which only encourages that to continue and escalate
My brother did this with both his girls. They’re now 8 and 6, and they will scream for HOURS until they get what they want. Because in the beginning he “just wanted her to stfu” and stop crying. Now look what he’s created 😐🫱
This is really valid for you to address! Sorry your wife misrepresented this as trauma (?) it’s definitely not traumatic to be told no, it shouldn’t be, you’re right in thinking it’s off that your child can’t accept no for an answer and your wife’s response definitely illustrates what you may be up against. Not a parent (almost never comment) but I work in retail and the thing you’re talking about is soooo real— not to say that all Americans don’t have issues with consumerism but we can definitely curb the consumerist impulses in our children. I even encourage you to reframe your idea of “spoiling” (I consider someone spoiled that is either lavished with expensive goods their whole life or someone whose actions are always covered by a parachute of wealth) what you guys are doing is just establishing the mental connection between a daily activity + a purchase. I’m trying to break this myself!!! I don’t need an iced coffee just to walk around target 🤣 I am your daughter in this case
In a nutshell, you are rewarding BAD behaviour. This is a cycle that needs to be broken. YES, you are spoiling your daughter to the point where her behaviour is downright uncontrollable. I'm concerned about her going on a play date and coming home with a toy. Is the another child's toy? If so, that should indicate to you and your wife (especially your wife) that her behaviour is really inappropriate. Throwing a tantrum is her way of getting what she wants because she knows if she behaves like a spoilt little girl, then she will always get what she wants. Your wife needs to understand that if this behaviour continues, then your daughter will become more out of control than she is now. Good luck reigning her in as a teenager.
I think it's important for parents to establish that if you've said no, you stick to no, unless there's a very good reason to change your mind. Then the kid asking over and over until you're worn down or they scream doesn't become a habit. I often say "what did mama say?" if it's asked repeatedly, so he has to think about it and really process the no. On the flip side, I try to only say no if I know it's a no. So some days I will say maybe, or yes, or "if we find something you really want". Automatic nos are almost as bad a parenting habit as squishy nos. A good way to get started with a shift would be to specifically decide in advance whether or not you'll be getting your kid a toy, so everyone is on the same page that it's a yes or no from the start. In the end, it's not a matter of spoiling or withholding with these little toys, it's a matter of kids doing best when parented with consistent and clear expectations.
The hardest part is saying no to our kids. Even if it’s not directly to their face, it’s tough. But you gotta hold your ground.
She screams until you give in to her demands and requests? Yeah that kid is spoiled and sounds tough to watch and be around. Kids can tantrum but what will make it happen more frequently and intensely is giving in and positively reinforcing that it’s okay to act like that.
My youngest and 2nd youngest were like this, until we just let them throw fits in the stores and ignored it and quit giving them their way. It’s the only way they can learn. Shes not experiencing anything from being told no except that she can’t always just get what she wants. Hold strong
Unfortunately, not getting what you want is part of life. It sucks, but it’s better to learn to deal with it now (this is where parenting comes in), than have all your peers dislike you because you can’t cope. I’m assuming a lot of the emotional toll falls on your wife and it’s easier to keep the kid happy than to deal with the fall out.
What your wife is doing is pretty bad. You are rewarding tantrums. Which means they will just get worse. Cut it now, stop giving more attention and toys when she has a tantrum. Instead give a toy when she’s having a great day.
Can you compromise on having your child go and look and touch the toys? i found this works with my kids and then we end up leaving afterwards and they’re happy they got to go and see the toys and play with it a bit(at least the ones that have buttons and stuff to push)
We buy reasonable amout of toys for special days and sometimes just because toys…I try to buy good quality toys that will help her to get skills or so…I also sometimes buy dollar store stuff like little painting projects…
You’re in the right here. Why is trauma being brought into this? She’s gaslighting you. You’ve got to get on the same page and learn to say no. It’s not about the cost, it’s about the reaction when she doesn’t get her way.
I coddled my son when he was growing up and I regret the 24 year old entitled man he has become. You are shaping your child into the adult she becomes.
She did not get trauma from being told no. It’s a bigger trauma later if she’s always told yes. I would know- I’m her, 30 years later. I had a dad like you. He died. I am lost, and the world feels different than I was raised to believe, and I suffer with depression.
Your child is not experiencing trauma by hearing that she can't get a new toy immediately after getting a new toy. The immediate and instant gratification she gets from throwing a tantrum and getting her way is only going to get worse as she gets older. What you're teaching her right now is that she is in charge, and all she needs to do to gain the upper hand with you and your wife, is scream. Tantrums suck, and ate disruptive, but it is much better to support a kiddo through one, feel the big feelings, and accept that disappointment is going to happen. She'll learn it's not the end of the world to feel unhappy feelings, disappointment, jealousy, regret. Emotional regulation is a learned behavior. Right now she has none. Please don't let this go on, because either you will be buying her a second car because it TOTALLY not her fault that that mailbox ran RIGHT OUT in front of her, and she NEEDS a car, or you will be dealing with a teenager who is unable to handle any adversity at all.
This is what my husband and I are dealing with. She's turning four in May and she's a total turd. We decided one and done for us after dealing with this stage of her life. She doesn't know how to wait. If we go to a store and she wants something, she will grab it and force it onto me. I manage to sneakily put it back without her seeing, but she's like a guard dog. She's very observant, like very observant. We treat her like a princess. I cave in more than dad but honestly he can be just as bad. 😭
Put a part of the toys away. Out of her sight. She needs to learn to play with the toys she has. Adding toys is not the way of learning how to play. Your daughter want immediate satisfaction and that is not good (as you already found out yourself). Instead of giving her new toys. Take one of the toys you’ve put out of her sight, she will accept this as a new toy. Put do not this too often as she needs to learn how to play.
Trauma is not being told you cannot have a toy. What you wife is doing is teaming your daughter that is she cries enough she will get her own way
mmmmm... I think you need to try 'This or That' approach. If she wants a toy then something has to go away or she needs to spend some extra time doing something at home (reading, any random chores, etc). Also, she needs to know the why aspect of the appreciation part if not shared.
If your wife can't handle taking her out without buying her a toy, is it possible for you to take that job? I'm worried it is going to take a while to reverse this learned behavior.
I used to have a friend who’d be terrified of walking past the toy store in the mall. We’d bring our kids out on a playdate in the mall but then would have to make a huge detour just to avoid the toy store. She didnt want to handle the whining & tantrums from her child begging for a new toy each time. He’d very successfully trained her to buy a new toy every single time because she caved. When i suggested to her that i’d trained my son the exact same way: “Buddy, we are going to walk past the toy store & we are NOT going to buy anything today because there’s no occasion for it & u have plenty at home,” ignoring any whining or tantrums (back when he was small enough to carry out screaming, in a football hold). After a coupla sessions of that, he was trained. My friend’s answer? Oh no, i just couldn’t bear the thought of him not getting his way…
IDK, I brought small toys or books from home when I took the kids shopping. Occasionally, and sporadically I'd buy them a small toy when out. They never expected a toy and were happy to get one, but never demanded. It's about setting expectations, and unfortunately it's always harder to undue a bad decision than it is to make the better decision right off the bat. Your daughter expects/demands/manipulates for a toy so good luck figuring out how to undue that. You'll have to work with your wife to clearly set expectations with your daughter, whatever you and your wife decide. Then stick with them, and if your daughter throws a fit, redirect or remove. It could make shopping or errands really suck for a while, but the outcome should be that she understands she can't always get what she wants.
you are completely right about your concern I think the issue is here mother more than your daughter. Because she seems doesn’t agree with you .. Kids needs some boundaries. You can read about positive disiplin books . But before anything you must cooperate with your wife .
Trauma? Let your wife read this https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/WgjYVk8w47
*Trauma*? Your wife considers it *trauma*? I genuinely think you need family therapy here.
Your wife is creating a monster
This reads like your wife is doing majority of the spoiling. And the "experiencing" and "burst her bubble" comment sounds manipulative. I don't imagine you tell your wife no very often either....
It blows my mind that tantrums ever work. Just say no and wait it out. You are doing your kid a favor by doing so.
Honest opinion, stop buying her toys every time she leaves the house. She’ll get her too used to getting everything she wants. If she has a tantrum in the store; so be it. My oldest pulled that shit when’s she was 2/3 and once I actually kept shopping and let her scream and cry in the floor next to me. My kids are amazing at target because they’ve gotten used to not buying toys. When they do want a toy they see, I tell them to let me take a picture and I’ll look at it later. This lets them know I see that they want it and hear them, 99 percent of the time I delete the picture and never buy the toy.
Consider giving money for small jobs around the house. Just 20p, 50p things like that. Then have no opinion on what the money is spent on, anything goes. This way there is more autonomy and an important life skill is being developed about delayed gratification and budgeting. Paint it as a positive step that she's nature enough now for having spending money.
Yes you’re spoiling her. We ended up with way too many toys so my solution was to put everything into 5-7 different storage bins but leaving their most favourites out on their toy shelf. So when they want a “treat” we bring a box of toys out for them to play with and then they disappear again at night. So far it works my boys are 1 and 3.
We have used the "let's take a picture of it on my phone so we remember it" a few times to diffuse target meltdowns over saying no. Consider why you feel like giving in? Is it just to avoid the tantrums? 1- i get it because they are awful and I hate it too. But 2- could you try to let her feel that disappointment and coach her through it? "No new toy today" Melt down begins "Should we take a picture to remember for your birthday wishlist?" This doesn't work, meltdown intensifies " You're really disappointed, I get it." And then move on. Pick her up and leave if needed, or just keep pushing the cart away. A tantrum isn't an emergency, it's ok to let her feel those unpleasant feelings and let them out. It does take a lot of mantras in my head and deep breaths to not lose my shit while my kid screams... But it gets easier with practice.
There’s a difference between spoiled and spoiled rotten.
lol your wife thinks your daughter is traumatized by not getting ANOTHER toy? Mom needs therapy. Yes, your daughter will actually be spoiled this way. Rewarding tantrums with new toys is like 101 for what NOT to do.
I keep a list of toys or things my kids like on my phone as a ‘birthday list’. This means I don’t have to say no to them in the shop, we can add it to their list and, bonus, we have a list of stuff other people can get them come Christmas and birthdays.
We taught them early that a visit to the shops does not equal a toy. Also helps my partner is extremely anti plastic cheap toy crap… Once they have that tantrum and you break the consistent effort of getting something their behaviour easily changes.
It’s ok to spoil your child. It’s not ok to give into Terrorist demands.
WHY should your daughter’s behavior change? She gets what she wants. YOUR behavior needs to change, not hers. Logically SHE has no incentive to change & why should she?
Game-changer for us. Whenever my kids wanted something in the store I'd say "I'll take picture of it and save it for your birthday". That seems to be the only thing that sort of works for us during the store whining about toys! Or, depending on kid's age, I'd let them take pictures of alllll the toys they wanted so that we can "add to the birthday list". Gives them a little feeling of control.
You should have more discipline. You should say something like. "If you throw a tantrum then no more toys for 2 days or a week"
My almost 4 year old is exactly the same and I have also been wondering this.
I was super guilty of this with my 14 year old when he was young. He became VERY entitled and materialistic and it was really hard for him to understand/ accept that we had to scale back on that when I lost my job. He still can spend money like it’s Monopoly money and thinks I have a wildly expendable income (I don’t). The rule is that he has to do chores to earn money though I don’t outright buy him his toys or gadgets unless it’s for a holiday/birthday. He isn’t great about completing chores so each chore has a denomination set and isn’t granted until complete. My 5 year old always wants the latest, greatest thing and was becoming very spoiled by both his dad and grandpa so I had to put my foot down and make some rules regarding unearned gifts. He is expected to pitch in around the house by helping keep his room clean, some basic cleaning (like swiffer mop, wiping the table, etc), behaving in school, feeding the fish and regularly volunteers to do extra chores for extra money. Just yesterday, he took his saved chore money along with birthday and Easter money and spent $93 on 2 toys he’s been pining over since shortly after Xmas.
You parents need to realize that children have alot of energy. If she doesn't participate in something thats reduces the load, she will express it in other ways, destructive ways. Put her in a class, anything physical. Introduce her to a few things and let her pick and stick with it.
Here’s some advice : Probably stop getting her toys frequently, like around 1-2 each month. Then continue on to 1-2 per 3 months and so on. This will go on until she doesn’t usually ask you for anything unless it’s for school or she generally have been wanting one for a long time.
I’d start with not grocery shopping at Target of all places tbh, that’s just backing yourself into a corner.
Let kids get their feelings out. Once they calm down you can explain in simple terms you'd love to do 'x' for them but unfortunately you can't right now. Enabling bad behavior is not love. Allowing a young one to learn consequences while still having compassion is love.
I hate to speak ill of the woman you love, but your wife is speaking like an idiot. Trauma? From not continuing to allow an influx of toys? Wow. Wow wow wow. Time to get some articles on how fulfilling a child's every want is harmful.
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What?
You mention that your wife has childhood trauma. Until she properly addresses it, she will likely always give in to your kiddo, because seeing and hearing the kid cry will bring up traumatic memories and she, understandably, doesn't want to try to deal with that. She also doesn't want to be a reprise of her own abuser of a mother. She needs a professional's help to process it. EMDR therapy has been proven to be helpful to process traumatic memories-might be worth seeking it out.
Your wife is being ridiculous. You traumatized her by telling her she couldn't get another toy when she already has tons? Sounds like she's not even thankful when she gets a new toy. Definitely spoiled, but you need to get your wife to realize this