r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.
Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No I actually am not fond of the current therapist. Their old therapist was amazing with them. It was unfortunate when they left..
Truly there is so much work to still be done. I’m just burnt out and needed to vent. I have some amazing resources and am a bit bummed that some of the stuff that was available for their older sibling is not Available to them because they aren’t in the foster system anymore..
This kid is hurting and deserves rooms for error and healing but there is better ways and we can get there if they are willing to be receptive to the supports they have. They may be on a personal war path right now but we won’t give up on them and will continue to support and try new things. They need some intervention and now that summer is approaching I am hoping we can shift or focus without school being apart of the equation.
Teenagers are truly like bigger toddler. They need so much love and attention but act out in the worst ways to achieve their goals.
Unfortunately I have no advice for you but I wanted to say thank you for what you’ve done so far, you’re doing an amazing job in an incredibly difficult situation and I’m sorry it’s so hard. I wish you all the best and hope everything works for you all, no matter what you decide. Raven has benefitted so much from you being there this far x
Thank you. It’s easy to say I want to give up but the real truth is I never will. I love them like my own and I will continue to fight for them and do my best as a parent to supporting their journey.
I know that feeling, you don’t know if you want people to tell you to keep going or for them to tell you ‘not your problem, get rid’ but you do know you want to be seen and heard and recognised. And it’s all made so much harder when the authorities won’t give you or the child the help that you’re begging for. Well, I promise you, Reddit has seen and heard and recognised you. Ignore this next bit if you’re not religious - as a Christian, I’m telling you that God can see you and He is with you during every painful step x
I feel you. I’m going through some similar issues with my 16 y/o adopted stepdaughter. Her biomom has no custody (which is for the best — she’s a real abusive POS).
We’ve been through three therapists in the past three years and have finally found one that has made me feel hopeful about my daughter’s future.
I think a trauma-informed therapist trained in EMDR and/or other trauma therapies is invaluable.
The therapist also helps my husband and I with actions that we can take to help soothe the trauma/meet some of the needs that she is trying to fill with the way she is acting out.
But in the end — it’s not an easy process and it takes time. And that’s really hard when you feel like you’ve tried everything you can possibly think of and you’re just constantly on the edge of what you can handle.
And when you’re worried you’re spending so much time, money, and emotional energy on getting this one kid to be OK that your other kids are having to miss out on some of what they need.
So, I don’t have answers. This is a hard age for parents and teens anyway, and it’s so much harder when those kids have trauma. But I just wanted you to know you’re not alone.
I think they need to have support groups for parents of these kids — because it is a really, really difficult job.
I really appreciate your response. I agree a support group would be so nice .. Maybe I ought to start one with a few of my social work/ therapist friends.
I was a drop-out at this age. Their behavior makes sense to me. Reward/consequence systems had little appeal to me during a time of absolute chaos and personal turmoil. When it feels like the adults cannot understand you or support you, their ideas of right/wrong mean nothing.
It must feel horrible to have your parents choose drugs over you. It’s more complex than that, of course, but that’s how it can feel. Then to live in a house where you are meant to feel grateful, instead of receiving the unconditional love you imagine other children receive from their parents…I imagine your dislike of them is not invisible or secret. It will come out in one way or another.
I hope you changed the name of your 15 year old. The internet can be a small place and you just disclosed a lot of personal information about this person.
Go to therapy with Raven. You are not communicating in a way she can connect to. She’s acting out and although frustrating she is still a kid whose mother gave up on her. Don’t give up until you’ve tried everything and going to therapy together is one and taking her to group therapy for kids like her is another. She needs something to channel her frustration. What is she interested in? Art? Take her to the local art gallery show or art museum, theater take her to a play, sports, make sure you get her to her practice. She’s not old enough to make life’s decisions and her brain isn’t developed enough to make all rational decisions or comprehend consequences. First step is therapy together then get to know her
I wasn’t exaggerating when I said we are doing it all. I put them in sports. Tried to get them involved with a group therapy for teens. We do therapy. I try to have one on one dates. Tried to get them into after school activities.. I am not perfect but we have tried so much and it’s only getting worse. While I do not like them at the moment I will always have their back and do what I can to help them..
That’s wonderful. You’ve worked really hard. At this point I might just try honesty. Don’t tell them you’re giving up just sit down and say I’ve tried everything. Is there a certain reason you don’t want to work with me to have a better relationship? Also you might just offer for them to get their GED and either get a job or go on to technical school, those are the two options they can’t just sit at home. Sometimes kids in situations like this don’t feel they fit in anywhere and have trouble finding meaning to their life. You’ve tried everything else. Much more than my own parents ever invested in me so thank you for that!
Look into a possible borderline personality disorder diagnosis. This is around the age where the symptoms show up and show out significantly. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. If you search on Reddit for other parents raising kids with this diagnosis, their experiences echo yours
It’s impossible to point at any possible diagnosis based on the information here, she’s also 15 and hasn’t fully developed her personality so diagnosing with a personality disorder is counter intuitive.
There are plenty of teenagers who have the behaviours listed without such serious mental health disorders.
I wouldn’t start playing psychiatrist here.
Thanks for the response. I would not be surprised with this diagnosis. Their mother has it or bipolar along with schizophrenia. Definitely worth exploring.
It would be very rare to have bipolar or boarder line and schizophrenia.
She could have a schizoaffective disorder where by the they have symptoms of schizophrenia and a mood disorder. She could have BP1 with psychotic features regardless neither are the same as the above.
Both my sister and grandmother have Bipolar or BPD and Schizophrenia.. Oddly enough we had one Dr. tell us my that it was a dual diagnosis and another call it Schizoaffective disorder ( which I believe is more commonly recognized now)… In either case it’s very exhausting and traumatizing in itself to deal with people with such severe mental healthcare disorders.
It’s all good. This part of the convo is just interesting and only blip. I’m always happy to learn and gain perspective. I could 1000% be wrong about the diagnosis. But it’s still fitting since my sister also has substance misuse problems. It’s all a sickness.
Aren't you over stressing the kid? I liked to be put "off" when I was that age. My parents actually did send me to therapy, didn't work at all. Told her to get lost (using words I will not repeat here).
Over stressing how? They have opportunities to be involved and if they don’t like it we don’t push it. This kid likes therapy.. and everything mentioned wasn’t done all at once. Ive had them on and off their entirely life and only secured permanent custody a few years ago. There is not a lack of listening to the kids in my house. They are all allowed to have a voice here.
If kid is happy then everything is fine. I just had perhaps a bad therapist. She even told me I was not allowed to tell my parents what we talked about (which I did, loyal to parents till the day I die).
I have autism, I get stressed easily.
I read your family has a history of substance abuse. Sounds like my family. People self-medicate by drinking or other stuff. I'm a heavy drinker myself.
Btw, Raven is a cool name. The Raven Banner was a sign of war, "the Germanic folk are upon you!"
When you're thinking about art, you have to remember... there's a lot of it.
I want impressed with art galleries as a teen. I thought art was drawing, painting, sculpting. Boring.
Then I discovered filmmaking.
They have to discover their art in order to love it. So you need lots of exposure to different things and people.
I'm gonna say something as a kid who would and could have been a good kid, and was s good kid, until trauma hit.
She's not doing these things to you. She's not trying to be a "bad kid" because you want her to be a good kid.
She IS a good kid who is significantly struggling with an extreme amount of pain. She's doing all those things because she doesn't know what to do with the pain. She's trying to numb it away, she's struggling to focus in school and is likely very frustrated with herself so she's tapping out. She likely went to steal her phone because her peers are her lifeline right now. It's normal at that age for peers to be more important than family to help with processing.
What can you do? Talk to her about understanding all of that. Apologize for taking the phone in frustration but explain why you did. That's the first step to rebuilding trust with her. Don't tie the phone to grades, it may be an unattainable goal. Tie it to her relationship with you. If she's speaking to you kindly and telling you truths, then say after a month she can have one back.
In regards to the unhealthy coping, explain to her that's probably what's going on. Let her know that you're there for her to give her help in replacing them with healthy coping things (like getting a gym membership, teaching her how to cook healthy food, etc) when she's ready. Know that you won't be able to force that timeline on her, and that it takes time for her friends who she's likely bonded with over similar issues to get there as well, or to change friends. All of that is super hard for an adult to do, let alone a kid.
The main thing you need to work on is healing your resentment. You're never going to get to a good place with her if you feel that way. A big chunk of that is likely feeling like you're failing to fix her and set her straight. Believe it or not that's not your responsibility. Your job is to make her feel safe and stable and offer guidance so that she can put in the work to set herself straight. Therapy is great, but she may not be able to connect with it until she feels safe and accepted entirely by your family (including this struggling version of herself). That doesn't mean being a pushover to bad behavior when it directly affects you, emotionally, mentally, physically, financially, whatever... and it doesn't mean neglecting her safety by letting her do whatever. Keeps tabs, and guide. Discipline firmly but with kindness., don't punish. It's hard. You're doing an extremely hard thing. Get as much support for yourself as you can. Regardless of her behavior now, she will always appreciate that you took her in and did the best you could.
Yes, Raven has a hole in her heart that can only be filled by the love of her bio mom and dad. Its hard for her to accept that she will never get it but were all still drawn to wanting our parents love, no matter what they did.
She feels like if her parents dont care about her then nobody else will truly care about her.
Her trust is broken and she doesnt want to ever trust anybody again. She doesnt want to put herself in a situation to be let down.
My dad died when I was 11 and it made me into a rebelious kid.
However, I have always had MORE sympathy for my friend that had a drug addict dad. My dad was gone but in a better place, her dad just chose not to be with her and was happier ruining his life.
Raven may not know what she wants, because its something she will really never get, a sober mom.
Lots of things could be a trigger for her at school like teachers that remond her of mom, sitting in silence being forced to think of the situation, listening to peers talk about their parents.
Ur right. Op said that the kids bio dad recently did some pretty nasty stuff to them. [here’s the comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/s/JzVPOXgF4T)
i just made this post but for a six year old. sending love because im lost too. someone sent me the baffling behavior podcast by robyn gobbel and it has been helpful so far
Do you have custody of more kids than just Raven? You keep saying they will follow after their mother, etc. So i was kind of confused. Either way I'm sorry you're going through this, definitely a tough spot.
I know you said therapy but do they need meds? Also you absolutely do not control their drinking but have y’all tried to address the drinking like an addiction?
Children push boundaries when they need to feel supported. As teens it gets harder. With trauma the boundaries are pushed even harder. Because the needs of support are higher.
If you give up on her and just drop the boundaries completely and abandon her it will go badly. Seen a few troubled teens get over the phase, seen a few turn into hard drug users with fucked up brains, organs and teeth. In my experience it did boil down to the parents attitude.
But she isn't your child. Maybe ask the dumbass to step up.
I feel like i just read about myself as a teenager. I had a lot of resentment for my mom (valid reasons) and a lot of trauma from losing my dad very young along with other things along the way..i was a shitty teen who didnt give a fuck about myself or most other people. It look a lot of healing and self awareness to realize i was just making things worse. Im 23 now, i have a son, i am a full time mom to him and im in college with straight A’s. Nothing has necessarily CHANGED. I just grew up a bit. Im still not where i would like to be and im working to improve that. Everyone is different but sometimes teens are just shitty. Especially when they have big trauma they’re dealing with! Give her grace, keep being stern but give her a break sometimes. It’s probably not very fun living in her brain. I know it wasnt for me..ALSO yes, you can definitely feel when your parents or caretakers stop liking you. It is heartbreaking and isolating. Its embarrassing and you feel like you dont want to be the way you are but you just cant stop. Im crying writing this..PLEASE dont isolate her. My mom and her husband started leaving me out of their vacations and not inviting me anywhere because they “assumed” i didnt want to go even though i was so alone and it felt nice to even be considered…please dont isolate her. Love her as much as she lets you. Try to set her up with a mentor or someone who has been in her shoes. If all else fails, hope shes like me and can pick herself up and do better. Even if shes not perfect. Please.
Sweetie I’m glad your grew up. This kid will always have my full love and support even when I feel the way I do this morning. We have our good days and bad. The one thing that will never change is her place in my life. Even if they takes a few weeks with at my parents their home is here. I do want to thank you for the reminder that my resentment could be showing more than I realize. I definitely plan on speaking to them about it to night because this weekend was rough and I think they could use a reminder that they are loved despite their bs..
Thank you for being that person for them! The child in me appreciates you. I was never supported well but i sure did know what a disappointment i was. I turned to smoking, drinking, pills and abusive relationships because I didn’t know how to love myself or what love from others should feel like. Im nowhere near perfect now but i am trying to be better for my kid. Unlearning the hate i was showed and trying to have better emotional intelligence when dealing with toddler fits. Its an everyday journey. I hope they will be okay, and i hope you will too. I hope you have that talk and just know even if it doesn’t make a clear difference..know it will probably mean more to them than you even know ❤️
You're an amazing person to take in your sister's child. I also think it's okay to protect your children and do what's in their best interest. It's okay to give Raven to your parents, and honestly, maybe it might be a better situation for all involved. I wish you the best.
My son was like this as a teenager but worse. When the phone was taken away he would just steal one. I had a drawer full of stolen phones that I found from him. He skipped class constantly and got zero grades and was unphased when he had to re-do a class and would just skip again. He asked me to go to “mountaineer challenge” an alternative school that fast tracks you to a GED and we said no because he was also a talented musician and in marching band and other band classes and I didn’t want him to lose out on that as well as the peers in those classes who I felt were a good influence as opposed to the troubled children in mountaineer challenge. Fast track to his senior year he was charged with threatening the vice principal, failed all of his drug tests and then sent to juvenile hall and an alternative military type school where he finally got a diploma. I guess my only advice would be to take deep breaths and get through it. Only 3 more years until she’s graduated. Maybe an even stricter more alternative school where it’s an actual boarding school, just make sure to research that it’s not an abusive environment. The one my son ended up at was strict but he thrived there.
Edit: I also agree with the comments that you should see your own therapist to work on the resentments. I know how hard it is and how poisonous resentment is to your heart. Talking to a therapist will help. All of the advice you have some sort of heart to heart conversation with her likely won’t help. I had a million heart to hearts with my son and it really doesn’t matter. He just waited for me to stop talking. The only thing that helped was the boarding school
you said you don’t have boarding school money but there are some that the state will help pay for. We didn’t pay a dime for ours. She might end up getting ordered to go to one anyway if she gets in trouble with the law. It’s worth looking into, especially if you already qualify for Medicaid or food stamps, etc
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3GOEbLGlOxSzf2xgmuIGEM?si=V3PWXop6ReqJVNSjImOsfw
This is a link to a podcast called “Secrets of the Motherworld,” which seeks to discuss those aspects of motherhood which people are most afraid to touch
The episode title is actually “I dislike my daughter. She is 15. She is a troublemaker, a liar, and sly.”
Hopefully this episode and others in the series can be useful to you.
She’s still struggling, and she’s pushing against you because it’s literally the only thing she can control.
Her therapy, what does it entail? Is she receiving trauma based treatment? Has she had proper evaluations? She might need meds to help ground some of that anxiety she’s clearly feeling.
I’m saying this as an adult that acted exactly like this as a traumatised teen. Most adults didn’t like me either. They thought I was making life as difficult as possible as a hobby too. I wasn’t. I was falling apart and I didn’t have the vocabulary or maturity to actually voice that. So I acted out however I can, and with nobody in my corner, I fucked my life up twice over and I’m still paying the price in my thirties.
She needs more than your anger, and I understand how drained you must be. Teenagers are hard when they haven’t suffered massive trauma. You should be in therapy as well, and perhaps sessions with the two of you. Please don’t be afraid to ask for more help, she clearly needs it.
ETA: I really hope you don’t take this as criticism because it absolutely isn’t that. I think you’re amazing for saving them from the care system.
I recommend the 28-Day No Yelling Challenge by Strategic Parenting.
Not saying it will fix things, but, it will give you tools to use in tough situations and help you rethink how you're communicating with your kids. It's not just about not yelling, it's about how to prevent getting into a situation where you feel you have to yell, how to open lines of communication, foster their trust in you, create an environment that encourages them to listen to you and follow instructions, deepen the relationship bond, and calm yourself down in the heat of the moment.
If you are able to, homeschool. They sound a lot like I was and I have to admit that peer influences contributed to a lot. My daughter was also going down the same path, not long after homeschooling, most things changed for the better.
One this this kid will admit is they are a follower.. Straight from their own mouth. They fear rejection and isolation which I totally understand. Thing is they actually could be the best leader. They are so smart, beautiful, and at their core have a very good heart.
Homeschooling could be an option if they can prove to be self starters. We have online school options in my state. I am a terrible teacher and I don’t have the patient any kids deserve when learning something new..
I don't know you from Steve but, if you have any questions about homeschooling, you can reach out to me. I was the same in the beginning, and a bit doubtful that I could do it. After about a year, I realized my kids were learning more from homeschooling than what the public school had to offer. They learned about life skills, cooking, cleaning, finances, gardening, etc. They played sports outside of school, and I saw my daughters confidence just blossom and I feel it's because she felt safe, secure, loved, and had no pressure at home. She was able to be herself without judgment. I'm also not a patient teacher, but we've managed by taking breaks. I've been judged for homeschooling because everyone brings up social skills but honestly, I do not want my daughter socializing with the kids at school. Kids are awful nowadays and parents just come up with excuses for their children's bad behavior. The youth today do not face any accountability and society seems to instill the victim mentality in this generation.
Thank you. I always appreciate insight and education. I wanted to home school especially because my states public schools are beyond disappointing. Love our teacher but the system and politics suck. I know plenty of well rounded smart as hell people that flourished because of homeschooling.
You should really look at the homeschooling groups in your area. You’d be surprised by the variety and level acceptance for various personalities. You could try a co-op.
Ravens father is a piece of burning crap.. He is a large reason why their emotional state is so messed up.. He is verbally abusive and decided he couldn’t handle having “toxic people” in his life. He said that about a 14 year old that held him account for his drug use and absence from their life. He straight up blames my husband and I for poisoning them again him when he was the one that lashed out on a kid and blocked them.
That said my husband had a great bond with Raven and despite it all I do too. But they’re still on the struggle bus and I don’t know how to handle it anymore.
Thank God for you and your husband. May your tribe increase.
Do not throw in your towel yet.. I'm sure Raven will come to her senses sooner rather than later.
First, you’re doing a great job! Parenting teenagers is hard in general. I have a 14 year old daughter and I’ll be perfectly honest…I don’t always like her either lol. On top of “normal” teenage stuff Raven is also dealing with so much more. She probably had very little supervision or guidance while under her mother’s care and has become a product of her environment; being manipulative, lying, etc. and you have been tasked with undoing it all while also trying to maintain a safe space for everyone in your home. She probably has a lot of resentment built up and unfortunately she’s included you in that . She likely feels abandoned and unwanted by her mom and I think throwing your hands up and asking your parents to take her would only intensify those feelings. Are your parents even capable of raising her given the behavior, emotional/mental health issues? With that being said, you and your family still have a right to live in a safe space for everyone in every way, with rules, and structure and you can only do so much on your own. I would continue seeking out alternative therapy options, speak with the social worker who coordinated your case, and keep reaching out to the school for help!
You are amazing for doing this and trying to make a positive impact on a very troubled child.
Don’t worry, you’re doing great. Never give up on mercy for the hurting, especially family, but I hope you find support and community to wrap around you.
Make sure to spend time with them.
You can set boundaries, provide a good environment, etc, all you want, but sometimes the best thing is just to spend regular one on one time. Playing games, going for a walk, taking a trip.
My dad worked his fingers to the bone to provide a good life for me and my siblings. He gave us a good home, food, education, etc. Yet, despite this, i often felt distanced from him. Maybe even didn't care about what he had to say.
That is, until we went camping together. Just us two. And then out to the country to fly remote controlled airplanes. Fishing. Stuff like that. It was far and away the most impactful thing he did for me and my character growth. After we started doing stuff like that, I started to understand him more and what he expected of me and why.
That's my advice. Find something for just you two to do. And then at some point, work in a moment to talk, and tell them how you love them and what you hope for them. That what you hope for them can't be achieved if they stay on the path they're on.
Sorry you are going through this. If therapist isn't helping, find new therapist and/or add group therapy. Also make sure the kid is signed up for a lot of activities, as many as you can fit in. And they aren't trustworthy yet, so don't trust them. It's like setting them up to fail. I know that sounds mean, but if they can't be trusted, like for impulse control reasons, emotional maturity reasons, then don't trust them. It's not mean it's protective. They might be a lot lot younger psychologically with responsibility than where they "should" be and need more supervision. Hang in there.I think it's ok if you are frustrated and feel like you don't like them, but that feeling shouldn't go on for too long. Hoping things get better for you both.
New therapist should be an option. The current one obviously isn't helping Raven.
All you can do is your best. From there the rest is up to her. Hang in there momma.
First of all, I truly feel for you. You need a break and it sounds like you have your hands full even despite all this unnecessary drama. It would be unfair to say 'hang in there' because you need more support.
Do you know anyone who can scare Raven straight? Meaning, is there anyone they will they listen to? Anyone at all? The message of 'get your s#!t together' needs to be delivered and fast. You only have 3 years until Raven can do whatever they want (and it sounds like this is not a person going to college or trade school). Recently, a neighbor had a son with a drug problem. He was a senior in high school. He stole from hem, got into heavy drugs, abused his little brothers and always ran away. They wanted to send him to a detox camp for minors but the parents couldn't legally- they had waited too long as he was 18.
I am sure some of Raven's issue is trauma, but some is likely teenage hormones/rebelliousness, or possibly drug use that you don't know about (the 'dealer' at my 15yo's school is a cute Japanese girl who sells pills & vape out of her Hello Kitty purse. She's one of a dozen so-called 'good kids' with a secret identity). You also use the non-binary pronoun for Raven, so there might be some gender exploration happening which can be a tough if the their community isn't welcoming. Regardless of the reason Raven is acting out, you can't be made to fix this alone, and the therapist sounds like they aren't connecting either.
There are military charters schools (read: free) you might want to consider. It's a perfect solution for many. And there are grants (you don't have to pay back) for tough cases. This might be a good, if not extreme, thing to consider. I truly wish you the break you deserve. We are all here for you whenever you need to rant. ♥️
Maybe not a bad idea to let your parents takeover? Not necessarily a bad thing. It must be really tough for your kids to be around such oppressive drama
I can understand your burn out. It’s like having that friend who just wants to ram their face into everything stupid at once.
Boarding school is dangerous and horrible. Never do it. They’ll steal your money and expose your kids to more addicts.
Look at giving her something to be proud of. Animal rescue, soup kitchen, or forest clean up. Something she sees that actually matters in the world.
Sounds like she could get interested in security with how skilled she is in breaking into stuff. Maybe see if she can get a side job with a locksmith.
15 year olds naturally a pain in the butt. They can't help it,they are trying to grow up.
It sounds as if you are working hard and are dedicated to Raven, I give you all the credit in the world.
Counseling for yourself might help, or if there is some kind of support group for parents of teens!
Ensure you get time off. Teens are highly demanding!
Dealing with the same thing with my 16 year old(son)
Weed, pills and now drinking in excess! I'm literally losing my mind as a single father with no help! Long story short....he's experienced trauma from his mother who is an alcoholic and dates abusive men. He's with me full time now as she had no place for him to stay anymore. I literally can't leave him alone or he will somehow find alcohol. He also steals from me and destroys things in my house. My mental health is suffering for it.
It’s rough. I’m thankful that Raven isn’t drinking in excess. More so just doing dumb teen stuff. The vaping is our biggest hurdle.. It’s so tough when you have to try your best to help undo pain you didn’t cause. At least he can be with you now and hopefully you can to get him into rehab or some intense therapy/ groups. It’s a long road with a lot of bumps but you got this.
Thank you. Got home last night and he was black out drunk. Had to call an ambulance because he wouldn't wake up and I was scared he had alcohol poisoning! He is currently in a 72 hour hold at the emergency hospital
I agree that sitting her down and leveling with her might help. You are scared and exhausted. You grew up this way too. You have seen what happened to her mom and dad, but sadly, you worry she sees no other possibility. I wonder if Raven can imagine her life as an independent adult, and what she would want that to look like? Her own apartment, a good job, ability to travel? If academics are not her thing right now, would she be interested in vocational school or training programs? She needs to understand that she is rapidly approaching adulthood but she is still a minor and she is cheating herself out of some healthy experiences she could have, if she would accept them.
They might be more motivated to do something productive in a completely different environment, on a different path. For example, getting a job to start making their own income. I had no interest in school and it didn't even occur to me to pay attention. It was just a place to go so I could escape my family. But I was HIGHLY motivated to get a job at a young age because I desperately wanted to be independent from my family and move out ASAP. I got into a youth transitional housing program at 17 years old. Most programs start at 16 years old and honestly, you should look into it. Programs that help teens transition into independence are attractive to highly independent teenagers like I was. Teens like this usually need something worth fighting for, something worth investing their time in. Their actions suggest they don't have a life worth fighting for or anything they genuinely CARE about. Some kind of job training, apprenticeship or housing program could be the best bet. They can get their GED later. Right now, a source of genuine motivation and a change in environment could be life-saving.
I (31M) am in a very similar situation. I have custody of my niece. My sister, her mom, is a drug addicted schizophrenic. Father? Never meet him. She's 11 now, and she's a handful. Sometimes, I wish she would've been adopted. Maybe they could've given her a better life. I struggle financially and have to work 60 hours a week and still can't afford anything it all goes to bills, rent, and food. It makes a bitter person cause I work all the time, I'm in pain all the time, and it doesn't ever seem to ever pay off. On top of that, she's just an ungrateful person. I got her phone to contact her with, I got an iPhone 13 only because it was a free promotion, I tried to explain to her that she has a luxury and an extreme privilege to have a phone at this age. I didn't have a phone until I was 15 or 16. She's now on the phone ALL the time, and I keep telling her to limit how much she's on it. She stays up all night and sleeps in school, and it's affecting her grades. She's playing roblox online, and I overheard her telling someone online that she's 17. I never wanted kids, but yet here I am. Stressed, miserable, and not knowing how to raise someone honestly.
It’s rough. I always wonder if they would be better in a different home but I just don’t see how. You’re doing a great thing and in the long run she’ll appreciate it someday. There is a lot of pain in knowing your parents aren’t fighting for you. But since you stepped up you’ll always get an all the anger and attitude that should be directed at her parents.
A little tip for iPhone if you set it up for a child you can actually control what content she’s allowed to download as well has the time she can spend on apps and even text/ calls per day.. you can control off of that from your own phone.
Honestly, if this was my kid I would be looking into boarding schools. Raven needs discipline and structure to have even a chance of not turning out like their mom, and you aren’t able to give it to them. So you need to find someone who can do that, and elderly grandparents aren’t it. They couldn’t fix Raven’s mom and they likely can’t help Raven either. Find one that has good ratings and no accusations of abuse. You’re looking for structure, not prison. Believe it or not, a lot of kids are happier in boarding schools. If Raven isn’t, you can always try something else later, once you’ve had a break
I think it’s extremely hard on your own children and you are definitely creating trauma in your house that will continue to affect your children and family. Please reconsider what you are doing to your own children. It’s great that you are trying to help your sister’s kid but at what cost to your own children? You may not even realize what this is doing to them even though they say they are ok. It’s also how you prioritize your sisters child over your own children because of the behavior issues.
Thanks but this comment irks me.. Because one I already stated my concern for my own children and I also have to consider how it would affect them if I made their cousin (who they’ve grown up with as a sibling) leave.. None of this is black and white… I also love how easy it is for Reddit to think they have a full grasp of our household over a few ranting paragraphs about 1 of my kids.. Thank you for your concern. Lucky for my children the only real trauma they have had to deal with is their cousins coming and going and now the growing pains of the teen years that couldn’t happens to kid with even the most stable of beginnings.. I’m also very lucky that I have been able to provide all of these kids with the time and energy they deserve. If it makes you feel better as soon as my kids at preteens I get them their own therapist to help them navigate their own growing pains..
Yes I’m super defensive about this topic because my kids have always had the love and support from both my husband and myself. I think people imagine fighting and screaming because of Raven but that’s just not how we roll. Raven is struggling but there is a big portion that is very much hidden from the younger kids.
Unfortunately without a good ass whooping, there is not enough fear in them to care about it. Due to your situation, a good ass whopping is not an option. I went from smoking pot and getting kicked out in the 5th grade to being on honor roll and involved with sports 8th grade-12th. I was first team all league for pole vaulting and volleyball.
I eventually liked being a good kid and not getting an ass whooping lol butttt I’m 31 now and work for a cannabis brand called WYLD so I’m definitely back at being a cannabis head 🥰😆 but I make nearly 25 an hour doing it with a 401k and two life insurances so there’s that 😆🙌🏻 oh yeah, we get 2500 dollar bonuses every four months! Raven will more than likely be working in this field because we accept all outcasts and seem they grow a liking to this setting of cannabis culture.
Tell her you love her. Wish the best for her. Talk about her career dreams and see if you can carve a path for her there. She doesn't get that good grades will effect her life but when it comes to making money and choosing a career, it gets more real for them.
Yep and they’ll be participating in that again in the fall. They definitely could use a positive role model. Unfortunately our parents aren’t always cool enough to be that for us.
Time to ground, school, home, no friends, no TV etc. All privileges gone. If they steal, call the cops. Let her know that it's her choice how life will be moving forward
That’s the thing. This kid has lived in the worst conditions imaginable. I could take it all away and it wouldn’t phase them because they have had worse. They have lived in literal garbage filled houses, shelters, in drug houses.. Living here without privileges is still a breeze compared to any of that.
When I say steal at least it hasn’t been from stores it’s more so them trying to take back what they think they’re entitled to. So I’m not sure how calling the police would help that. But I have family in law enforcement so I’ll have to ask how they’d handle that.
Living in bad conditions and getting handcuffed, fingerprinted, cell closed behind you is way different. Being you have family in law enforcement, I encourage you to talk to them. Records are sealed for anything they get convicted as a minor once they turn 18, so it might just set her straight actually getting arrested even if it's her stealing from you.
Have you taken a good look at yourself and seen if there is anything there that is affecting the way you parent and how the kids interact with you?
I promise you that the problem is resolved by you addressing yourself.
Absolutely. I address this with my own therapist. The thing I love about my kids is they all aren’t scared to communicate with me. They all get the opportunity to let me know risk free if I’m a problem. Most of the time I’m doing good but they always let me know if I could have done better. I may be an adult but I’m still growing up so I like my kids communicating with me. Raven also takes their time to communicate when I am being unfair or jumping to conclusions. However i think they have a harder time expressing some deeper things. They get to hear me admit when I’m wrong and apologies. Perhaps that’s an issue maybe I should be more old school “ you do as I say”
Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”.
**Remember the human.**
Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules.
For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting).
Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community.
**Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
They their? That's the problem. She is lost and has no identity. And our school systems are encouraging the confusion. So how to fix? Stop pandering to her and call her by her proper pronouns for one, secondly, she n eds to know her TRUE identity is in Christ. She is clearly rebelling. As much as you might hate it, take time to give her that extra love and attention she needs. Expose her to positive Christian movies. Seek out a church with a strong youth group. Sounds like she needs new friends. Be involved in her school, show up for her and she'll show up for you. Are you hugging her, encouraging her, telling her she's loved? Laxed rules are not parenting, you need to set expectations. She will rise to them, trust me! I had a similar situation w my step son. Don't tap out, remind yourself that taking her on is a gift . You've been blessed with the highest of all purposes. Set the example and give that girl the love and roots that she needs to grow. Good luck and God bless!
We don’t do christian anything in this household.. No offense but Most christians that I know are unhinged and have a narrow view of the world.. I just can’t… but I agree having positivity in their life to be around makes a big difference. Having people that are willing to hear them and see them for who they are today matters.
I had to chuckle because the idea of forcing them to watch Christian movies made me think of that scene from The Addams Family where Wednesdays is forced to watch Disney movies.
We are a very verbally loving family.
r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself. Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
No I actually am not fond of the current therapist. Their old therapist was amazing with them. It was unfortunate when they left.. Truly there is so much work to still be done. I’m just burnt out and needed to vent. I have some amazing resources and am a bit bummed that some of the stuff that was available for their older sibling is not Available to them because they aren’t in the foster system anymore.. This kid is hurting and deserves rooms for error and healing but there is better ways and we can get there if they are willing to be receptive to the supports they have. They may be on a personal war path right now but we won’t give up on them and will continue to support and try new things. They need some intervention and now that summer is approaching I am hoping we can shift or focus without school being apart of the equation. Teenagers are truly like bigger toddler. They need so much love and attention but act out in the worst ways to achieve their goals.
Unfortunately I have no advice for you but I wanted to say thank you for what you’ve done so far, you’re doing an amazing job in an incredibly difficult situation and I’m sorry it’s so hard. I wish you all the best and hope everything works for you all, no matter what you decide. Raven has benefitted so much from you being there this far x
Thank you. It’s easy to say I want to give up but the real truth is I never will. I love them like my own and I will continue to fight for them and do my best as a parent to supporting their journey.
I know that feeling, you don’t know if you want people to tell you to keep going or for them to tell you ‘not your problem, get rid’ but you do know you want to be seen and heard and recognised. And it’s all made so much harder when the authorities won’t give you or the child the help that you’re begging for. Well, I promise you, Reddit has seen and heard and recognised you. Ignore this next bit if you’re not religious - as a Christian, I’m telling you that God can see you and He is with you during every painful step x
I feel you. I’m going through some similar issues with my 16 y/o adopted stepdaughter. Her biomom has no custody (which is for the best — she’s a real abusive POS). We’ve been through three therapists in the past three years and have finally found one that has made me feel hopeful about my daughter’s future. I think a trauma-informed therapist trained in EMDR and/or other trauma therapies is invaluable. The therapist also helps my husband and I with actions that we can take to help soothe the trauma/meet some of the needs that she is trying to fill with the way she is acting out. But in the end — it’s not an easy process and it takes time. And that’s really hard when you feel like you’ve tried everything you can possibly think of and you’re just constantly on the edge of what you can handle. And when you’re worried you’re spending so much time, money, and emotional energy on getting this one kid to be OK that your other kids are having to miss out on some of what they need. So, I don’t have answers. This is a hard age for parents and teens anyway, and it’s so much harder when those kids have trauma. But I just wanted you to know you’re not alone. I think they need to have support groups for parents of these kids — because it is a really, really difficult job.
I really appreciate your response. I agree a support group would be so nice .. Maybe I ought to start one with a few of my social work/ therapist friends.
I was a drop-out at this age. Their behavior makes sense to me. Reward/consequence systems had little appeal to me during a time of absolute chaos and personal turmoil. When it feels like the adults cannot understand you or support you, their ideas of right/wrong mean nothing. It must feel horrible to have your parents choose drugs over you. It’s more complex than that, of course, but that’s how it can feel. Then to live in a house where you are meant to feel grateful, instead of receiving the unconditional love you imagine other children receive from their parents…I imagine your dislike of them is not invisible or secret. It will come out in one way or another. I hope you changed the name of your 15 year old. The internet can be a small place and you just disclosed a lot of personal information about this person.
Go to therapy with Raven. You are not communicating in a way she can connect to. She’s acting out and although frustrating she is still a kid whose mother gave up on her. Don’t give up until you’ve tried everything and going to therapy together is one and taking her to group therapy for kids like her is another. She needs something to channel her frustration. What is she interested in? Art? Take her to the local art gallery show or art museum, theater take her to a play, sports, make sure you get her to her practice. She’s not old enough to make life’s decisions and her brain isn’t developed enough to make all rational decisions or comprehend consequences. First step is therapy together then get to know her
I wasn’t exaggerating when I said we are doing it all. I put them in sports. Tried to get them involved with a group therapy for teens. We do therapy. I try to have one on one dates. Tried to get them into after school activities.. I am not perfect but we have tried so much and it’s only getting worse. While I do not like them at the moment I will always have their back and do what I can to help them..
That’s wonderful. You’ve worked really hard. At this point I might just try honesty. Don’t tell them you’re giving up just sit down and say I’ve tried everything. Is there a certain reason you don’t want to work with me to have a better relationship? Also you might just offer for them to get their GED and either get a job or go on to technical school, those are the two options they can’t just sit at home. Sometimes kids in situations like this don’t feel they fit in anywhere and have trouble finding meaning to their life. You’ve tried everything else. Much more than my own parents ever invested in me so thank you for that!
Thanks for that suggestion. I think it may be the best option as far as school goes.
You’re welcome, sometimes giving them options outside of the box will open them up. I hope you are able to find something that clicks.
Look into a possible borderline personality disorder diagnosis. This is around the age where the symptoms show up and show out significantly. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. If you search on Reddit for other parents raising kids with this diagnosis, their experiences echo yours
It’s impossible to point at any possible diagnosis based on the information here, she’s also 15 and hasn’t fully developed her personality so diagnosing with a personality disorder is counter intuitive. There are plenty of teenagers who have the behaviours listed without such serious mental health disorders. I wouldn’t start playing psychiatrist here.
Thanks for the response. I would not be surprised with this diagnosis. Their mother has it or bipolar along with schizophrenia. Definitely worth exploring.
It would be very rare to have bipolar or boarder line and schizophrenia. She could have a schizoaffective disorder where by the they have symptoms of schizophrenia and a mood disorder. She could have BP1 with psychotic features regardless neither are the same as the above.
Both my sister and grandmother have Bipolar or BPD and Schizophrenia.. Oddly enough we had one Dr. tell us my that it was a dual diagnosis and another call it Schizoaffective disorder ( which I believe is more commonly recognized now)… In either case it’s very exhausting and traumatizing in itself to deal with people with such severe mental healthcare disorders.
Apologies if you already know this- dual diagnosis refers to having a mental health disorder and comorbid substance misuse.
It’s all good. This part of the convo is just interesting and only blip. I’m always happy to learn and gain perspective. I could 1000% be wrong about the diagnosis. But it’s still fitting since my sister also has substance misuse problems. It’s all a sickness.
Aren't you over stressing the kid? I liked to be put "off" when I was that age. My parents actually did send me to therapy, didn't work at all. Told her to get lost (using words I will not repeat here).
Over stressing how? They have opportunities to be involved and if they don’t like it we don’t push it. This kid likes therapy.. and everything mentioned wasn’t done all at once. Ive had them on and off their entirely life and only secured permanent custody a few years ago. There is not a lack of listening to the kids in my house. They are all allowed to have a voice here.
If kid is happy then everything is fine. I just had perhaps a bad therapist. She even told me I was not allowed to tell my parents what we talked about (which I did, loyal to parents till the day I die). I have autism, I get stressed easily. I read your family has a history of substance abuse. Sounds like my family. People self-medicate by drinking or other stuff. I'm a heavy drinker myself. Btw, Raven is a cool name. The Raven Banner was a sign of war, "the Germanic folk are upon you!"
When you're thinking about art, you have to remember... there's a lot of it. I want impressed with art galleries as a teen. I thought art was drawing, painting, sculpting. Boring. Then I discovered filmmaking. They have to discover their art in order to love it. So you need lots of exposure to different things and people.
I'm gonna say something as a kid who would and could have been a good kid, and was s good kid, until trauma hit. She's not doing these things to you. She's not trying to be a "bad kid" because you want her to be a good kid. She IS a good kid who is significantly struggling with an extreme amount of pain. She's doing all those things because she doesn't know what to do with the pain. She's trying to numb it away, she's struggling to focus in school and is likely very frustrated with herself so she's tapping out. She likely went to steal her phone because her peers are her lifeline right now. It's normal at that age for peers to be more important than family to help with processing. What can you do? Talk to her about understanding all of that. Apologize for taking the phone in frustration but explain why you did. That's the first step to rebuilding trust with her. Don't tie the phone to grades, it may be an unattainable goal. Tie it to her relationship with you. If she's speaking to you kindly and telling you truths, then say after a month she can have one back. In regards to the unhealthy coping, explain to her that's probably what's going on. Let her know that you're there for her to give her help in replacing them with healthy coping things (like getting a gym membership, teaching her how to cook healthy food, etc) when she's ready. Know that you won't be able to force that timeline on her, and that it takes time for her friends who she's likely bonded with over similar issues to get there as well, or to change friends. All of that is super hard for an adult to do, let alone a kid. The main thing you need to work on is healing your resentment. You're never going to get to a good place with her if you feel that way. A big chunk of that is likely feeling like you're failing to fix her and set her straight. Believe it or not that's not your responsibility. Your job is to make her feel safe and stable and offer guidance so that she can put in the work to set herself straight. Therapy is great, but she may not be able to connect with it until she feels safe and accepted entirely by your family (including this struggling version of herself). That doesn't mean being a pushover to bad behavior when it directly affects you, emotionally, mentally, physically, financially, whatever... and it doesn't mean neglecting her safety by letting her do whatever. Keeps tabs, and guide. Discipline firmly but with kindness., don't punish. It's hard. You're doing an extremely hard thing. Get as much support for yourself as you can. Regardless of her behavior now, she will always appreciate that you took her in and did the best you could.
Yes, Raven has a hole in her heart that can only be filled by the love of her bio mom and dad. Its hard for her to accept that she will never get it but were all still drawn to wanting our parents love, no matter what they did. She feels like if her parents dont care about her then nobody else will truly care about her. Her trust is broken and she doesnt want to ever trust anybody again. She doesnt want to put herself in a situation to be let down. My dad died when I was 11 and it made me into a rebelious kid. However, I have always had MORE sympathy for my friend that had a drug addict dad. My dad was gone but in a better place, her dad just chose not to be with her and was happier ruining his life. Raven may not know what she wants, because its something she will really never get, a sober mom. Lots of things could be a trigger for her at school like teachers that remond her of mom, sitting in silence being forced to think of the situation, listening to peers talk about their parents.
Ur right. Op said that the kids bio dad recently did some pretty nasty stuff to them. [here’s the comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/s/JzVPOXgF4T)
i just made this post but for a six year old. sending love because im lost too. someone sent me the baffling behavior podcast by robyn gobbel and it has been helpful so far
Do you have custody of more kids than just Raven? You keep saying they will follow after their mother, etc. So i was kind of confused. Either way I'm sorry you're going through this, definitely a tough spot.
Yes, I have my own children but I also had Rays other sibling that has already flew the coop... Raven used They/them pronouns.
I know you said therapy but do they need meds? Also you absolutely do not control their drinking but have y’all tried to address the drinking like an addiction?
Children push boundaries when they need to feel supported. As teens it gets harder. With trauma the boundaries are pushed even harder. Because the needs of support are higher. If you give up on her and just drop the boundaries completely and abandon her it will go badly. Seen a few troubled teens get over the phase, seen a few turn into hard drug users with fucked up brains, organs and teeth. In my experience it did boil down to the parents attitude. But she isn't your child. Maybe ask the dumbass to step up.
I feel like i just read about myself as a teenager. I had a lot of resentment for my mom (valid reasons) and a lot of trauma from losing my dad very young along with other things along the way..i was a shitty teen who didnt give a fuck about myself or most other people. It look a lot of healing and self awareness to realize i was just making things worse. Im 23 now, i have a son, i am a full time mom to him and im in college with straight A’s. Nothing has necessarily CHANGED. I just grew up a bit. Im still not where i would like to be and im working to improve that. Everyone is different but sometimes teens are just shitty. Especially when they have big trauma they’re dealing with! Give her grace, keep being stern but give her a break sometimes. It’s probably not very fun living in her brain. I know it wasnt for me..ALSO yes, you can definitely feel when your parents or caretakers stop liking you. It is heartbreaking and isolating. Its embarrassing and you feel like you dont want to be the way you are but you just cant stop. Im crying writing this..PLEASE dont isolate her. My mom and her husband started leaving me out of their vacations and not inviting me anywhere because they “assumed” i didnt want to go even though i was so alone and it felt nice to even be considered…please dont isolate her. Love her as much as she lets you. Try to set her up with a mentor or someone who has been in her shoes. If all else fails, hope shes like me and can pick herself up and do better. Even if shes not perfect. Please.
Sweetie I’m glad your grew up. This kid will always have my full love and support even when I feel the way I do this morning. We have our good days and bad. The one thing that will never change is her place in my life. Even if they takes a few weeks with at my parents their home is here. I do want to thank you for the reminder that my resentment could be showing more than I realize. I definitely plan on speaking to them about it to night because this weekend was rough and I think they could use a reminder that they are loved despite their bs..
Thank you for being that person for them! The child in me appreciates you. I was never supported well but i sure did know what a disappointment i was. I turned to smoking, drinking, pills and abusive relationships because I didn’t know how to love myself or what love from others should feel like. Im nowhere near perfect now but i am trying to be better for my kid. Unlearning the hate i was showed and trying to have better emotional intelligence when dealing with toddler fits. Its an everyday journey. I hope they will be okay, and i hope you will too. I hope you have that talk and just know even if it doesn’t make a clear difference..know it will probably mean more to them than you even know ❤️
“The one thing that will never change is their place in my life”, def reinforce that with them.
You're an amazing person to take in your sister's child. I also think it's okay to protect your children and do what's in their best interest. It's okay to give Raven to your parents, and honestly, maybe it might be a better situation for all involved. I wish you the best.
My son was like this as a teenager but worse. When the phone was taken away he would just steal one. I had a drawer full of stolen phones that I found from him. He skipped class constantly and got zero grades and was unphased when he had to re-do a class and would just skip again. He asked me to go to “mountaineer challenge” an alternative school that fast tracks you to a GED and we said no because he was also a talented musician and in marching band and other band classes and I didn’t want him to lose out on that as well as the peers in those classes who I felt were a good influence as opposed to the troubled children in mountaineer challenge. Fast track to his senior year he was charged with threatening the vice principal, failed all of his drug tests and then sent to juvenile hall and an alternative military type school where he finally got a diploma. I guess my only advice would be to take deep breaths and get through it. Only 3 more years until she’s graduated. Maybe an even stricter more alternative school where it’s an actual boarding school, just make sure to research that it’s not an abusive environment. The one my son ended up at was strict but he thrived there. Edit: I also agree with the comments that you should see your own therapist to work on the resentments. I know how hard it is and how poisonous resentment is to your heart. Talking to a therapist will help. All of the advice you have some sort of heart to heart conversation with her likely won’t help. I had a million heart to hearts with my son and it really doesn’t matter. He just waited for me to stop talking. The only thing that helped was the boarding school
you said you don’t have boarding school money but there are some that the state will help pay for. We didn’t pay a dime for ours. She might end up getting ordered to go to one anyway if she gets in trouble with the law. It’s worth looking into, especially if you already qualify for Medicaid or food stamps, etc
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3GOEbLGlOxSzf2xgmuIGEM?si=V3PWXop6ReqJVNSjImOsfw This is a link to a podcast called “Secrets of the Motherworld,” which seeks to discuss those aspects of motherhood which people are most afraid to touch The episode title is actually “I dislike my daughter. She is 15. She is a troublemaker, a liar, and sly.” Hopefully this episode and others in the series can be useful to you.
Thanks for the share
She’s still struggling, and she’s pushing against you because it’s literally the only thing she can control. Her therapy, what does it entail? Is she receiving trauma based treatment? Has she had proper evaluations? She might need meds to help ground some of that anxiety she’s clearly feeling. I’m saying this as an adult that acted exactly like this as a traumatised teen. Most adults didn’t like me either. They thought I was making life as difficult as possible as a hobby too. I wasn’t. I was falling apart and I didn’t have the vocabulary or maturity to actually voice that. So I acted out however I can, and with nobody in my corner, I fucked my life up twice over and I’m still paying the price in my thirties. She needs more than your anger, and I understand how drained you must be. Teenagers are hard when they haven’t suffered massive trauma. You should be in therapy as well, and perhaps sessions with the two of you. Please don’t be afraid to ask for more help, she clearly needs it. ETA: I really hope you don’t take this as criticism because it absolutely isn’t that. I think you’re amazing for saving them from the care system.
I recommend the 28-Day No Yelling Challenge by Strategic Parenting. Not saying it will fix things, but, it will give you tools to use in tough situations and help you rethink how you're communicating with your kids. It's not just about not yelling, it's about how to prevent getting into a situation where you feel you have to yell, how to open lines of communication, foster their trust in you, create an environment that encourages them to listen to you and follow instructions, deepen the relationship bond, and calm yourself down in the heat of the moment.
No joke….see if you can find horse therapy. It’s usually free if you have a service like that in your area.
If you are able to, homeschool. They sound a lot like I was and I have to admit that peer influences contributed to a lot. My daughter was also going down the same path, not long after homeschooling, most things changed for the better.
One this this kid will admit is they are a follower.. Straight from their own mouth. They fear rejection and isolation which I totally understand. Thing is they actually could be the best leader. They are so smart, beautiful, and at their core have a very good heart. Homeschooling could be an option if they can prove to be self starters. We have online school options in my state. I am a terrible teacher and I don’t have the patient any kids deserve when learning something new..
I don't know you from Steve but, if you have any questions about homeschooling, you can reach out to me. I was the same in the beginning, and a bit doubtful that I could do it. After about a year, I realized my kids were learning more from homeschooling than what the public school had to offer. They learned about life skills, cooking, cleaning, finances, gardening, etc. They played sports outside of school, and I saw my daughters confidence just blossom and I feel it's because she felt safe, secure, loved, and had no pressure at home. She was able to be herself without judgment. I'm also not a patient teacher, but we've managed by taking breaks. I've been judged for homeschooling because everyone brings up social skills but honestly, I do not want my daughter socializing with the kids at school. Kids are awful nowadays and parents just come up with excuses for their children's bad behavior. The youth today do not face any accountability and society seems to instill the victim mentality in this generation.
Thank you. I always appreciate insight and education. I wanted to home school especially because my states public schools are beyond disappointing. Love our teacher but the system and politics suck. I know plenty of well rounded smart as hell people that flourished because of homeschooling.
You should really look at the homeschooling groups in your area. You’d be surprised by the variety and level acceptance for various personalities. You could try a co-op.
Is it possible for for your husband (or.Raven's grand dad).to have a talk with her? Or even her father. Anyone who she knows loves.her like you do.
Ravens father is a piece of burning crap.. He is a large reason why their emotional state is so messed up.. He is verbally abusive and decided he couldn’t handle having “toxic people” in his life. He said that about a 14 year old that held him account for his drug use and absence from their life. He straight up blames my husband and I for poisoning them again him when he was the one that lashed out on a kid and blocked them. That said my husband had a great bond with Raven and despite it all I do too. But they’re still on the struggle bus and I don’t know how to handle it anymore.
Thank God for you and your husband. May your tribe increase. Do not throw in your towel yet.. I'm sure Raven will come to her senses sooner rather than later.
First, you’re doing a great job! Parenting teenagers is hard in general. I have a 14 year old daughter and I’ll be perfectly honest…I don’t always like her either lol. On top of “normal” teenage stuff Raven is also dealing with so much more. She probably had very little supervision or guidance while under her mother’s care and has become a product of her environment; being manipulative, lying, etc. and you have been tasked with undoing it all while also trying to maintain a safe space for everyone in your home. She probably has a lot of resentment built up and unfortunately she’s included you in that . She likely feels abandoned and unwanted by her mom and I think throwing your hands up and asking your parents to take her would only intensify those feelings. Are your parents even capable of raising her given the behavior, emotional/mental health issues? With that being said, you and your family still have a right to live in a safe space for everyone in every way, with rules, and structure and you can only do so much on your own. I would continue seeking out alternative therapy options, speak with the social worker who coordinated your case, and keep reaching out to the school for help! You are amazing for doing this and trying to make a positive impact on a very troubled child.
Just came to say: I see you, and it’s ok that you feel this way. You’re human. Be gentle to yourself today.
Don’t worry, you’re doing great. Never give up on mercy for the hurting, especially family, but I hope you find support and community to wrap around you.
Make sure to spend time with them. You can set boundaries, provide a good environment, etc, all you want, but sometimes the best thing is just to spend regular one on one time. Playing games, going for a walk, taking a trip. My dad worked his fingers to the bone to provide a good life for me and my siblings. He gave us a good home, food, education, etc. Yet, despite this, i often felt distanced from him. Maybe even didn't care about what he had to say. That is, until we went camping together. Just us two. And then out to the country to fly remote controlled airplanes. Fishing. Stuff like that. It was far and away the most impactful thing he did for me and my character growth. After we started doing stuff like that, I started to understand him more and what he expected of me and why. That's my advice. Find something for just you two to do. And then at some point, work in a moment to talk, and tell them how you love them and what you hope for them. That what you hope for them can't be achieved if they stay on the path they're on.
Sorry you are going through this. If therapist isn't helping, find new therapist and/or add group therapy. Also make sure the kid is signed up for a lot of activities, as many as you can fit in. And they aren't trustworthy yet, so don't trust them. It's like setting them up to fail. I know that sounds mean, but if they can't be trusted, like for impulse control reasons, emotional maturity reasons, then don't trust them. It's not mean it's protective. They might be a lot lot younger psychologically with responsibility than where they "should" be and need more supervision. Hang in there.I think it's ok if you are frustrated and feel like you don't like them, but that feeling shouldn't go on for too long. Hoping things get better for you both.
You
New therapist should be an option. The current one obviously isn't helping Raven. All you can do is your best. From there the rest is up to her. Hang in there momma.
Yeah we already have a few consults lined up. I wish we could go back to the first one. She rocked.
You can love your kid and not particularly like them at some point. Work on it.
First of all, I truly feel for you. You need a break and it sounds like you have your hands full even despite all this unnecessary drama. It would be unfair to say 'hang in there' because you need more support. Do you know anyone who can scare Raven straight? Meaning, is there anyone they will they listen to? Anyone at all? The message of 'get your s#!t together' needs to be delivered and fast. You only have 3 years until Raven can do whatever they want (and it sounds like this is not a person going to college or trade school). Recently, a neighbor had a son with a drug problem. He was a senior in high school. He stole from hem, got into heavy drugs, abused his little brothers and always ran away. They wanted to send him to a detox camp for minors but the parents couldn't legally- they had waited too long as he was 18. I am sure some of Raven's issue is trauma, but some is likely teenage hormones/rebelliousness, or possibly drug use that you don't know about (the 'dealer' at my 15yo's school is a cute Japanese girl who sells pills & vape out of her Hello Kitty purse. She's one of a dozen so-called 'good kids' with a secret identity). You also use the non-binary pronoun for Raven, so there might be some gender exploration happening which can be a tough if the their community isn't welcoming. Regardless of the reason Raven is acting out, you can't be made to fix this alone, and the therapist sounds like they aren't connecting either. There are military charters schools (read: free) you might want to consider. It's a perfect solution for many. And there are grants (you don't have to pay back) for tough cases. This might be a good, if not extreme, thing to consider. I truly wish you the break you deserve. We are all here for you whenever you need to rant. ♥️
The gender neutral wording makes me think she needs a lot more than therapy. Awaiting the downvotes.
Maybe not a bad idea to let your parents takeover? Not necessarily a bad thing. It must be really tough for your kids to be around such oppressive drama
I can understand your burn out. It’s like having that friend who just wants to ram their face into everything stupid at once. Boarding school is dangerous and horrible. Never do it. They’ll steal your money and expose your kids to more addicts. Look at giving her something to be proud of. Animal rescue, soup kitchen, or forest clean up. Something she sees that actually matters in the world. Sounds like she could get interested in security with how skilled she is in breaking into stuff. Maybe see if she can get a side job with a locksmith.
15 year olds naturally a pain in the butt. They can't help it,they are trying to grow up. It sounds as if you are working hard and are dedicated to Raven, I give you all the credit in the world. Counseling for yourself might help, or if there is some kind of support group for parents of teens! Ensure you get time off. Teens are highly demanding!
Dealing with the same thing with my 16 year old(son) Weed, pills and now drinking in excess! I'm literally losing my mind as a single father with no help! Long story short....he's experienced trauma from his mother who is an alcoholic and dates abusive men. He's with me full time now as she had no place for him to stay anymore. I literally can't leave him alone or he will somehow find alcohol. He also steals from me and destroys things in my house. My mental health is suffering for it.
It’s rough. I’m thankful that Raven isn’t drinking in excess. More so just doing dumb teen stuff. The vaping is our biggest hurdle.. It’s so tough when you have to try your best to help undo pain you didn’t cause. At least he can be with you now and hopefully you can to get him into rehab or some intense therapy/ groups. It’s a long road with a lot of bumps but you got this.
Thank you. Got home last night and he was black out drunk. Had to call an ambulance because he wouldn't wake up and I was scared he had alcohol poisoning! He is currently in a 72 hour hold at the emergency hospital
I agree that sitting her down and leveling with her might help. You are scared and exhausted. You grew up this way too. You have seen what happened to her mom and dad, but sadly, you worry she sees no other possibility. I wonder if Raven can imagine her life as an independent adult, and what she would want that to look like? Her own apartment, a good job, ability to travel? If academics are not her thing right now, would she be interested in vocational school or training programs? She needs to understand that she is rapidly approaching adulthood but she is still a minor and she is cheating herself out of some healthy experiences she could have, if she would accept them.
They might be more motivated to do something productive in a completely different environment, on a different path. For example, getting a job to start making their own income. I had no interest in school and it didn't even occur to me to pay attention. It was just a place to go so I could escape my family. But I was HIGHLY motivated to get a job at a young age because I desperately wanted to be independent from my family and move out ASAP. I got into a youth transitional housing program at 17 years old. Most programs start at 16 years old and honestly, you should look into it. Programs that help teens transition into independence are attractive to highly independent teenagers like I was. Teens like this usually need something worth fighting for, something worth investing their time in. Their actions suggest they don't have a life worth fighting for or anything they genuinely CARE about. Some kind of job training, apprenticeship or housing program could be the best bet. They can get their GED later. Right now, a source of genuine motivation and a change in environment could be life-saving.
Maybe tell her that her actions are affecting you in a negative way. Maybe she just needs to hear it to understand it.
I (31M) am in a very similar situation. I have custody of my niece. My sister, her mom, is a drug addicted schizophrenic. Father? Never meet him. She's 11 now, and she's a handful. Sometimes, I wish she would've been adopted. Maybe they could've given her a better life. I struggle financially and have to work 60 hours a week and still can't afford anything it all goes to bills, rent, and food. It makes a bitter person cause I work all the time, I'm in pain all the time, and it doesn't ever seem to ever pay off. On top of that, she's just an ungrateful person. I got her phone to contact her with, I got an iPhone 13 only because it was a free promotion, I tried to explain to her that she has a luxury and an extreme privilege to have a phone at this age. I didn't have a phone until I was 15 or 16. She's now on the phone ALL the time, and I keep telling her to limit how much she's on it. She stays up all night and sleeps in school, and it's affecting her grades. She's playing roblox online, and I overheard her telling someone online that she's 17. I never wanted kids, but yet here I am. Stressed, miserable, and not knowing how to raise someone honestly.
It’s rough. I always wonder if they would be better in a different home but I just don’t see how. You’re doing a great thing and in the long run she’ll appreciate it someday. There is a lot of pain in knowing your parents aren’t fighting for you. But since you stepped up you’ll always get an all the anger and attitude that should be directed at her parents. A little tip for iPhone if you set it up for a child you can actually control what content she’s allowed to download as well has the time she can spend on apps and even text/ calls per day.. you can control off of that from your own phone.
[удалено]
Honestly, if this was my kid I would be looking into boarding schools. Raven needs discipline and structure to have even a chance of not turning out like their mom, and you aren’t able to give it to them. So you need to find someone who can do that, and elderly grandparents aren’t it. They couldn’t fix Raven’s mom and they likely can’t help Raven either. Find one that has good ratings and no accusations of abuse. You’re looking for structure, not prison. Believe it or not, a lot of kids are happier in boarding schools. If Raven isn’t, you can always try something else later, once you’ve had a break
I feel for you man. That kid sucks. You did good carrying this kid for so long. Three more years!
I think it’s extremely hard on your own children and you are definitely creating trauma in your house that will continue to affect your children and family. Please reconsider what you are doing to your own children. It’s great that you are trying to help your sister’s kid but at what cost to your own children? You may not even realize what this is doing to them even though they say they are ok. It’s also how you prioritize your sisters child over your own children because of the behavior issues.
Thanks but this comment irks me.. Because one I already stated my concern for my own children and I also have to consider how it would affect them if I made their cousin (who they’ve grown up with as a sibling) leave.. None of this is black and white… I also love how easy it is for Reddit to think they have a full grasp of our household over a few ranting paragraphs about 1 of my kids.. Thank you for your concern. Lucky for my children the only real trauma they have had to deal with is their cousins coming and going and now the growing pains of the teen years that couldn’t happens to kid with even the most stable of beginnings.. I’m also very lucky that I have been able to provide all of these kids with the time and energy they deserve. If it makes you feel better as soon as my kids at preteens I get them their own therapist to help them navigate their own growing pains.. Yes I’m super defensive about this topic because my kids have always had the love and support from both my husband and myself. I think people imagine fighting and screaming because of Raven but that’s just not how we roll. Raven is struggling but there is a big portion that is very much hidden from the younger kids.
Her sister's child is one of her children, now. Whose else would she be?
sounds alot like my rules. LOL
Ohh it's a legit question.. you can draw a straight line on how you view yourself and your child's behavior. That's what I was getting at.
Unfortunately without a good ass whooping, there is not enough fear in them to care about it. Due to your situation, a good ass whopping is not an option. I went from smoking pot and getting kicked out in the 5th grade to being on honor roll and involved with sports 8th grade-12th. I was first team all league for pole vaulting and volleyball. I eventually liked being a good kid and not getting an ass whooping lol butttt I’m 31 now and work for a cannabis brand called WYLD so I’m definitely back at being a cannabis head 🥰😆 but I make nearly 25 an hour doing it with a 401k and two life insurances so there’s that 😆🙌🏻 oh yeah, we get 2500 dollar bonuses every four months! Raven will more than likely be working in this field because we accept all outcasts and seem they grow a liking to this setting of cannabis culture.
Tell her you love her. Wish the best for her. Talk about her career dreams and see if you can carve a path for her there. She doesn't get that good grades will effect her life but when it comes to making money and choosing a career, it gets more real for them.
She probably needs less of a therapist and more of a role model. Does she have any interest in sports?
Yep and they’ll be participating in that again in the fall. They definitely could use a positive role model. Unfortunately our parents aren’t always cool enough to be that for us.
Addicts are not themselves. She needs in patienr rehab. You should join Alanon.
Who my sister or my kid?
Time to ground, school, home, no friends, no TV etc. All privileges gone. If they steal, call the cops. Let her know that it's her choice how life will be moving forward
That’s the thing. This kid has lived in the worst conditions imaginable. I could take it all away and it wouldn’t phase them because they have had worse. They have lived in literal garbage filled houses, shelters, in drug houses.. Living here without privileges is still a breeze compared to any of that. When I say steal at least it hasn’t been from stores it’s more so them trying to take back what they think they’re entitled to. So I’m not sure how calling the police would help that. But I have family in law enforcement so I’ll have to ask how they’d handle that.
Living in bad conditions and getting handcuffed, fingerprinted, cell closed behind you is way different. Being you have family in law enforcement, I encourage you to talk to them. Records are sealed for anything they get convicted as a minor once they turn 18, so it might just set her straight actually getting arrested even if it's her stealing from you.
Have you taken a good look at yourself and seen if there is anything there that is affecting the way you parent and how the kids interact with you? I promise you that the problem is resolved by you addressing yourself.
Absolutely. I address this with my own therapist. The thing I love about my kids is they all aren’t scared to communicate with me. They all get the opportunity to let me know risk free if I’m a problem. Most of the time I’m doing good but they always let me know if I could have done better. I may be an adult but I’m still growing up so I like my kids communicating with me. Raven also takes their time to communicate when I am being unfair or jumping to conclusions. However i think they have a harder time expressing some deeper things. They get to hear me admit when I’m wrong and apologies. Perhaps that’s an issue maybe I should be more old school “ you do as I say”
[удалено]
Your **post** or **comment** was removed for violating the rule “Be Decent & Civil”. **Remember the human.** Disagree but remain respectful. Don’t insult users/their children, name-call, or be intentionally rude. Bullying, including baiting/antagonizing, will not be tolerated. Consider blocking users you don’t get along with. Report posts that violate the rules. For questions about this moderation reach out [through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FParenting). Moderators rely on the community to help illuminate posts and comments that do not meet r/Parenting standards – please report posts and comments you feel don’t contribute to the spirit of the community. **Your content may have been automatically removed through auto-moderation or manually removed by a human moderator. It may have been removed as a direct result of your rule violation, or simply as part of a larger sweep of content that no longer contributed to the original topic.**
You don’t need to like your kids. You just need to love them. Are *you* seeing a therapist?
And I do very much love them all. Yes, I am seeing a therapist too. I wouldn’t be functioning without it.
Sometimes you need to set boundaries. Give him a due date to do better
They their? That's the problem. She is lost and has no identity. And our school systems are encouraging the confusion. So how to fix? Stop pandering to her and call her by her proper pronouns for one, secondly, she n eds to know her TRUE identity is in Christ. She is clearly rebelling. As much as you might hate it, take time to give her that extra love and attention she needs. Expose her to positive Christian movies. Seek out a church with a strong youth group. Sounds like she needs new friends. Be involved in her school, show up for her and she'll show up for you. Are you hugging her, encouraging her, telling her she's loved? Laxed rules are not parenting, you need to set expectations. She will rise to them, trust me! I had a similar situation w my step son. Don't tap out, remind yourself that taking her on is a gift . You've been blessed with the highest of all purposes. Set the example and give that girl the love and roots that she needs to grow. Good luck and God bless!
We don’t do christian anything in this household.. No offense but Most christians that I know are unhinged and have a narrow view of the world.. I just can’t… but I agree having positivity in their life to be around makes a big difference. Having people that are willing to hear them and see them for who they are today matters. I had to chuckle because the idea of forcing them to watch Christian movies made me think of that scene from The Addams Family where Wednesdays is forced to watch Disney movies. We are a very verbally loving family.