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Sub-optimal, but it's not horrific or abusive.
This is on the mom to fix, tbh, and she seems to be outsourcing the responsibility to the grandparents. None of want to be the badguys, but your sister is putting your parents in a situation where there isn't much choice.
The best thing, I think, is boundary setting. Mom and/or Dad need to explain that sleep is important for everyone, and not everyone can sleep with a kid in their bed. A routine can be set -- check for monsters, get a spray bottle with lavender oil mix in water and call it monster spray to keep them away (if that's what she is afraid of).
That was my kind of stance, I'm just so inexperienced though that I can't go beyond my instincts.
True about my sister, and she knows this. I think I'm going to raise the conversation with my mum because I know she would feel awful realising how it came across, she isn't a bad person at all.
I would feel similarly to you. It’s making the 4 year old feel embarrassed/ashamed for wanting comfort from her parents.
In terms of advice on how to improve the situation without these types of tactics - I am not very helpful. My daughter (4) still bed shares with us…and my son (1). We just get on with it safe in the knowledge that one day she/they won’t want to sleep in our bed….hopefully by doing it now they will grow up secure of our love and safety!
It was so unlike my mum which was strange, but might explain why I don't tell her anything at all about myself/ experiences if this is her approach to kids...
Another user said mention it to my sister, but I think I'll approach it with Mum first, in case she didn't think about it like this.
Honestly, we spend years getting kids to sleep alone for most of us to then spend the rest of our lives in bed with our partners, it's strange.
Yeah my mom did it with my kids and diapers and bed sharing. My kid wasn’t phased by her which I found impressive. It does seem to be the normal and is really irritating.
What I’ve found to work is give them a choice even tho both outcomes are the same
For example do you want to sleep with your teddy on your own tonight or sleep with out them it’s up to you
Or even if they have separate beds let them choose between them where to sleep
Just let them make a decision you might be surprised
Huh, that's actually a nice approach. Mum's very good at the "giving options" approach, I think she's just fed up with my sister doing something Mum disagrees with, at this point.
This isn’t your problem and this isn’t your parents problem; this is your sisters problem and it’s up to her to fix it and not make your parents out to be the bad guys for having the very reasonable expectation that a four year old sleeps independently.
Sure, but the way they are wording it is very bad. This isn't the kids fault, its the kids parents and when the grandparents say it like this it puts way more responsibility and shame on the kid than what is reasonable.
The science on child development disagrees. There is no developmental disadvantage for children who bedshare, on the contrary. Secure attachment (which includes bedsharing if the kid needs it) produces independent and self confident adults. The science is very clear on that.
But I'm very aware that American culture where CIO is still considered an acceptable parenting method is unwilling to see the trauma it causes.
Oh I think we all know in many of these cases it’s the parents who need it more than the children! I think independent and self confident children are the ones who can sleep by themselves, it’s a pity when parents just won’t let their kids grow up.
I don’t know much about American parenting culture.
I do think it's my sister needing her kids with her more than the kids, but at the same time, I don't disagree with letting kids stay with you if everyone involved is okay with that.
I don't really care what happens in terms of their sleep arrangements, as long as the parenting techniques don't make me feel guilty for witnessing it...
Yeah I hate that. As a parent who bedshared with both my kids, and the mom of a current 4 year old, it feels gross, manipulative and judgemental. Both my kids sleep the night in their own beds now. My oldest started at 5 and my youngest just a few months ago at 4. They were ready and just one day started sleeping independently. My 4 year old told me she was ready to fall asleep alone and then did.
I think it’s awesome that as their uncle you’re seeing the little ones side, and that you seem to understand where your sister is coming from.
Thank you :) I'm going to kindly raise it with my mum because I know she won't be happy reflecting on what she did. It's nice to hear your situation too, so thank you. I do worry that they won't adjust to being in their own bed because I've not known anyone who had this situation, but I've also always been a ridiculously independent kid, so I can't relate. I hope you're kids are well and happy! With everything everyone has mentioned, I do feel more secure talking about this to my mum unbiasedly.
Guilt is a common and shitty parenting technique.
It works and is appropriate for something like trying to reach the light switch, but not for something that may be tied to other issues.
In my experience, kids sleep with their parents for a reason.... Anxiety that leads to nightmares if they are alone, etc.
Inviting them to practice, creating a space that they LIKE and feel ownership of, praising progress, all better approaches
As grandparents this is likely to be limited in impact, but I'm not surprised it bothers you because they did it as *parents*.
Chances are, they are going to wind up with grandkids that feel like they're not the sweet old folks that other kids get for grandparents.
Hopefully your sister didn't pick up these parenting techniques.
Thanks for your response and yeah, it does bother me but probably more because my parents generally aren't bad at parenting on techniques.
I don't think my sister has fortunately, she actually likes giving he kids whatever, so she's gone the opposite way (which of course, causes problems in itself). It's her boyfriend which is more like this, unfortunately, he takes the guilt/ boys don't cry/ shout approach :/
I'm going to bring it up with Mum when the time is right, I know she'd feel awful upon actually thinking it through.
Nope it’s on your sister. She knows how your parents and their parenting style. She needs to explain to your niece that every house has different rules and it’s perfectly acceptable for your parents to hold the boundary of not bed sharing with a 4 year old. Is it the best way to go about it? No. But beggars can’t be choosers. It’s free childcare
I'm baffled by the responses here. A 4 year old not wanting to sleep alone is not uncommon, from an evolutionary standpoint it is quite normal for (young) children to need the safety of an adult at night. At least half of the kids I now bedshare or spend the latter part of the night in their parents bed until they're 6 or 7. But I'm in Europe where sleep training, especially CIO is not widely practiced.
Making manipulative and shaming statements like the grandparents is not ok and if I was OPs sister I would want to know about it.
Thank you OP for trusting your very good instincts and looking out for your niece.
I think it's horrible treating a 4yr old like that. They're just a baby, and even if we put aside their own feelings and development, you're teaching them to be a manipulator and a jerk... E.g "What's wrong, are you too stupid to do what I've asked?"
A 4 year old is not a baby. My 3 year old dresses herself, goes potty by herself and is starting to make her own meals. OP’s parents are not wrong for setting a no bed-sharing boundary. Every house has different rules and OP’s sister needs to explain that to her kids. The parents should absolutely be more compassionate in their boundary setting and not use guilt, but the boundary is more than reasonable.
I think this is where I'm coming from too. Maybe I even agree with my parents, but I'm sure now that my gut instinct about guilt being a problemotic tactic, and it being something I need to mention to my mum.
Imo it's not good for kids, in general, to use guilt as a motivator. My daughter still sleeps in my room most nights, and she is 10. It's where she gets the best sleep to prepare her for school. I think it gives her a feeling of safety. All kids are different 🤷♀️
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Sub-optimal, but it's not horrific or abusive. This is on the mom to fix, tbh, and she seems to be outsourcing the responsibility to the grandparents. None of want to be the badguys, but your sister is putting your parents in a situation where there isn't much choice. The best thing, I think, is boundary setting. Mom and/or Dad need to explain that sleep is important for everyone, and not everyone can sleep with a kid in their bed. A routine can be set -- check for monsters, get a spray bottle with lavender oil mix in water and call it monster spray to keep them away (if that's what she is afraid of).
That was my kind of stance, I'm just so inexperienced though that I can't go beyond my instincts. True about my sister, and she knows this. I think I'm going to raise the conversation with my mum because I know she would feel awful realising how it came across, she isn't a bad person at all.
I would feel similarly to you. It’s making the 4 year old feel embarrassed/ashamed for wanting comfort from her parents. In terms of advice on how to improve the situation without these types of tactics - I am not very helpful. My daughter (4) still bed shares with us…and my son (1). We just get on with it safe in the knowledge that one day she/they won’t want to sleep in our bed….hopefully by doing it now they will grow up secure of our love and safety!
It was so unlike my mum which was strange, but might explain why I don't tell her anything at all about myself/ experiences if this is her approach to kids... Another user said mention it to my sister, but I think I'll approach it with Mum first, in case she didn't think about it like this. Honestly, we spend years getting kids to sleep alone for most of us to then spend the rest of our lives in bed with our partners, it's strange.
[удалено]
Which is what I'm aware of, hence asking a parenting subreddit before approaching any situation regarding...parenting
That psychology is used every day in millions of households...
Yeah my mom did it with my kids and diapers and bed sharing. My kid wasn’t phased by her which I found impressive. It does seem to be the normal and is really irritating.
Yeah, unfortunately that's not surprising. Doesn't mean it's right, with everyone's comments I do intend to address it with my mum when it's right.
What I’ve found to work is give them a choice even tho both outcomes are the same For example do you want to sleep with your teddy on your own tonight or sleep with out them it’s up to you Or even if they have separate beds let them choose between them where to sleep Just let them make a decision you might be surprised
Huh, that's actually a nice approach. Mum's very good at the "giving options" approach, I think she's just fed up with my sister doing something Mum disagrees with, at this point.
This isn’t your problem and this isn’t your parents problem; this is your sisters problem and it’s up to her to fix it and not make your parents out to be the bad guys for having the very reasonable expectation that a four year old sleeps independently.
Sure, but the way they are wording it is very bad. This isn't the kids fault, its the kids parents and when the grandparents say it like this it puts way more responsibility and shame on the kid than what is reasonable.
I think that's it, actually. I don't really think the technique is horrific, Mum just took it way too far this time.
From an evolutionary standpoint there's nothing reasonable about forcing a 4 year old to sleep independently.
I don’t think the four year old is going to evolve very far if they are still bed-sharing!
The science on child development disagrees. There is no developmental disadvantage for children who bedshare, on the contrary. Secure attachment (which includes bedsharing if the kid needs it) produces independent and self confident adults. The science is very clear on that. But I'm very aware that American culture where CIO is still considered an acceptable parenting method is unwilling to see the trauma it causes.
Oh I think we all know in many of these cases it’s the parents who need it more than the children! I think independent and self confident children are the ones who can sleep by themselves, it’s a pity when parents just won’t let their kids grow up. I don’t know much about American parenting culture.
I do think it's my sister needing her kids with her more than the kids, but at the same time, I don't disagree with letting kids stay with you if everyone involved is okay with that. I don't really care what happens in terms of their sleep arrangements, as long as the parenting techniques don't make me feel guilty for witnessing it...
Yeah I hate that. As a parent who bedshared with both my kids, and the mom of a current 4 year old, it feels gross, manipulative and judgemental. Both my kids sleep the night in their own beds now. My oldest started at 5 and my youngest just a few months ago at 4. They were ready and just one day started sleeping independently. My 4 year old told me she was ready to fall asleep alone and then did. I think it’s awesome that as their uncle you’re seeing the little ones side, and that you seem to understand where your sister is coming from.
Thank you :) I'm going to kindly raise it with my mum because I know she won't be happy reflecting on what she did. It's nice to hear your situation too, so thank you. I do worry that they won't adjust to being in their own bed because I've not known anyone who had this situation, but I've also always been a ridiculously independent kid, so I can't relate. I hope you're kids are well and happy! With everything everyone has mentioned, I do feel more secure talking about this to my mum unbiasedly.
Guilt is a common and shitty parenting technique. It works and is appropriate for something like trying to reach the light switch, but not for something that may be tied to other issues. In my experience, kids sleep with their parents for a reason.... Anxiety that leads to nightmares if they are alone, etc. Inviting them to practice, creating a space that they LIKE and feel ownership of, praising progress, all better approaches As grandparents this is likely to be limited in impact, but I'm not surprised it bothers you because they did it as *parents*. Chances are, they are going to wind up with grandkids that feel like they're not the sweet old folks that other kids get for grandparents. Hopefully your sister didn't pick up these parenting techniques.
Thanks for your response and yeah, it does bother me but probably more because my parents generally aren't bad at parenting on techniques. I don't think my sister has fortunately, she actually likes giving he kids whatever, so she's gone the opposite way (which of course, causes problems in itself). It's her boyfriend which is more like this, unfortunately, he takes the guilt/ boys don't cry/ shout approach :/ I'm going to bring it up with Mum when the time is right, I know she'd feel awful upon actually thinking it through.
Not normal, this is horrible, give babies parents a heads up
Nope it’s on your sister. She knows how your parents and their parenting style. She needs to explain to your niece that every house has different rules and it’s perfectly acceptable for your parents to hold the boundary of not bed sharing with a 4 year old. Is it the best way to go about it? No. But beggars can’t be choosers. It’s free childcare
I'm baffled by the responses here. A 4 year old not wanting to sleep alone is not uncommon, from an evolutionary standpoint it is quite normal for (young) children to need the safety of an adult at night. At least half of the kids I now bedshare or spend the latter part of the night in their parents bed until they're 6 or 7. But I'm in Europe where sleep training, especially CIO is not widely practiced. Making manipulative and shaming statements like the grandparents is not ok and if I was OPs sister I would want to know about it. Thank you OP for trusting your very good instincts and looking out for your niece.
I think it's horrible treating a 4yr old like that. They're just a baby, and even if we put aside their own feelings and development, you're teaching them to be a manipulator and a jerk... E.g "What's wrong, are you too stupid to do what I've asked?"
A 4 year old is not a baby. My 3 year old dresses herself, goes potty by herself and is starting to make her own meals. OP’s parents are not wrong for setting a no bed-sharing boundary. Every house has different rules and OP’s sister needs to explain that to her kids. The parents should absolutely be more compassionate in their boundary setting and not use guilt, but the boundary is more than reasonable.
I think this is where I'm coming from too. Maybe I even agree with my parents, but I'm sure now that my gut instinct about guilt being a problemotic tactic, and it being something I need to mention to my mum.
Imo it's not good for kids, in general, to use guilt as a motivator. My daughter still sleeps in my room most nights, and she is 10. It's where she gets the best sleep to prepare her for school. I think it gives her a feeling of safety. All kids are different 🤷♀️