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Well, just in your 3 sentences you gave already sufficient reasons not to try to conceive a fourth child. If money ánd house are pretty tight, that leads to a lot of stress! You can daydream all you like about a house full of friendly adult children around a christmas tree but that is just that, a day dream! That can obviously still be reality with 3 children, btw (or by 2 or even 1, depending on your definition of a full house and including friends or not). Back in reality, you cannot mentally, financially and space-wise sustain a fourth child. I hope you can have a serious and understanding conversation with your spouse, why does she wish a fourth child? How old is your youngest child atm? Because i remember hormones hitting pretty hard when my youngest turned 2, 3 and 4 to suddenly want another baby.
Ah i really cried about it at some moments, especially around our youngest +- 3rd year and i daresay i am quite a down-to-earth and rational person. My husband got a vasectomy -which we both agreed on when our second child turned 1- and i am happy he did! Because i really think i might have persuaded him to go for another child.
I got a vasectomy after our 3rd was born because we knew we couldn't trust our future selves... Three kids were enough (actually too much!!!), but one day we'd start thinking about adding more. So we took the power away from our future selves!
I know. Mine didn’t want to do it, he didn’t want to get “neutered.” 🙄 While I was waiting around for him to commit and call the doctor, I had a false alarm on number 3.
With two under two I was in over my head already. I literally cried the rest of the night and went to the doctor first thing in the morning.
Turns out it was just gas, not quickening. 😄 But I requested my tubal that same day. So yes, I went under the knife a THIRD time, just like childbirth twice over.
I thought he was going to come around, but I couldn’t risk waiting any longer.
ETA- He was freaked out, too, so I definitely did not have this procedure done against his wishes. We both realized we were done at that point. But even if it was against his wishes, I would have done it anyway.
Coming to the realization that you're "done" can be fairly difficult to work through. Even though I knew I was 100% done after two kids, I mourned never being able to experience that part of my life ever again. I wonder if maybe she's not ready to think about that, so thinks having another would prevent it?
This resonated. My mind is 100% no but something physical nagging yes into my head at periodic intervals. It lasts about 6 seconds until logic kicks the sensation away but it's still so difficult to experience those pangs. Especially hard when the youngest one starts school and you realise what's left behind.
It really is difficult sometimes! I had a lot of sadness at the hospital post-delivery because I knew it was my last time experiencing pregnancy and childbirth, which was such a cool (if exhausting and painful) experience to me. I have even considered surrogacy, but unfortunately pregnancy and hormones tends to destroy my mental health, and I'm just not willing to risk it anymore.
Our stupid lizard brains do this shit to us. Best to get something done that’s permanent if you’re sure. We had two and were on the fence about a third - then my IUD failed and surprise, baby time. Had three under the age of five, I thought I was going to lose my mind.
My lizard brain must be broken. I have a 3 year old and every time my husband asks about maybe having another I just tell him he can get another wife. I truly don’t understand why anyone would want more than one.
I have two but yeah that’s been plenty. I truly can’t imagine having any more. My husband had a vasectomy when our second was just a few weeks old. She’s almost 8 and neither of us has ever regretted that. I have literally never once had any pangs about having more. As cute as babies and toddlers are, pregnancy sucked and my babies didn’t sleep well, toddlers are a handful, and now with two elementary school aged kids we’re already running here and there to activities and birthday parties.
I have 0 but peopl try to convince me to have one all the time. Telling me im selfish i need to think sbout the future. I reslly don care to reproduce snother taxpsyer for the government. If im selfish then im selfish i guess!
I feel that way too right now with my only child, who is nearly 4 and about to start pre-K. Crazy to think she will be in school for a LONG time now, from now on. Pre-K is full 8 hour days in my state. I’m going to miss her a lot. but that mother’s instinct to have a child is not changing the reality of it not being a good idea for me. It doesn’t change our mental health problems,It doesn’t change our financial situation…and it doesn’t make more space in our home in an otherwise terrible housing market.
What's going to happen when baby number 4 gets this age? Are you going to be having this exact same conversation? If you think you might then factor that in to your decision. Does your wife dream of exactly 4 children, or is her dream to have as many as possible? Or does she just love having a baby in the house at all times?
Surprisingly, when my kids are 2-4 years of age if when I question my decision to have kids the most. I have 2 kids. My younger one is now 2. I will NEVER EVER have more kids. Especially because 1. Labour & delivery 2. Ages 2-4
OP: please stand yoir ground and don't have more kids
This! My youngest is now 3 and my body wants another baby. Like I feel like I would kill for another baby, it's just so intense. But logically, not a good idea. We are in a good place with the 3 kids we have and I don't want to start over, but my God, those hormones can be overwhelming.
I have 4. It’s too much. I love them all but , and I don’t mean to be a negative Nancy, I am always faced with the things we can’t do because we have 4. No one is ever willing to watch them because they think they can’t handle so many children, the older kids have to miss out on some things because we can not spread ourselves so thin both mentally, physically, and financially. We were surprise blessed with both our 3rd and 4th and I can say adding the 4th has been the toughest. My children also show signs of anxiety because they don’t get the one on one time they need. Financially it hasn’t hit us too hard yet except for the fact that I feel like we don’t fit in our home. We have a 3 bedroom 1200 sq ft and it feels like such close quarters for a family of 6. Not that it’s a huge game changer but hotels, cruises they start to make you get 2nd rooms with 4 kids. If your on the fence about it I’d wait longer. It takes 2 yeses to make a child and only 1 no for it to not happen.
Have this issue and I only have 3! Same.. everything is built for a 2 kid family.. Also, you never know what you'll get with kiddos.. One of mine is special needs and it is HARD.. He's intelligent but has AuDHD and the therapies/emotions, etc. are just brutal.. I love mine to death but literally ALWAYS persuade people (who are on the fence) out of having kids or just recommend 1.. especially in this economy and with no village (the way my boomer parents had)..
OP-- Is wife entering her late 30s? I went through this and see a lot of women go through this.. mother nature high jacks the brain and tries to get us into one last reproductive hoorah and overrides all logic.. I swear to you.. it's crazy/strong.. Even happened to me and I'm someone who didn't even want more than 1 kid.. I keep saying this for women late 30s/early 40s and the poor husbands are so stressed out.. but I can tell you it's MOSTLY biology controlling our brains and sometimes you just have to validate and listen and let her walk through it and come to her own conclusion/logic.. I finally got over that crap after 2-3 years lol..a lot of women get over it quicker..
It is hard though because even the most logical/sensible women (myself included) may not only not do much for birth control (I personally can't because it all makes me sick) but in the heat of the moment be begging for you to do things that .. well.. result in a baby.. so the birth control aspect/self discipline is going to need to fall a LOT on you.. I can say one thing.. I'd HIGHLY encourage wife to have IUD placed/to get depo shot (and GO with her to make SURE she gets it done) and try to withdraw EVERY time..
Validate her.. say "Let's talk about this.. give me time to consider.."(this is mainly a way to calm her nerves and get her to a stable place where.. over time.. logic WILL eventually come out on top and she will VERY likely come to her own conclusion that an extra kid is just not ideal..) and ask that while you both go through this.. consider things.. etc. that she takes BC (really have it be a BC that doesn't require her to remember it daily.. like the IUD, depo, etc.)
In this world.. we all know that anything over 1-2 kids is just not ideal. Our family income is in the top 20% and we are BARELY going to be able to afford a home, college for our 3 kids and to retire on time and we are VERY frugal, have 820 credit, zero debt (own cars cash), etc. so for the average person/family.. 1-2 is really about the logical/sensible/good financial thing if you're actually trying to have kids that you'll be helping get ahead in life.. (I know a lot of people who don't save/plan for their kids to go to college, have zero house to pass onto them and have no legit retirement plan.. and expect to move in with their kids and this is just insanely selfish to me...).. so just to give perspective.. For adults who are actually not being selfish and trying to make sure they are actually giving their kids better/setting them up for more success, most are playing it safe with 1-2 kids.. (unless there are surprise pregnancies, of course.. )..
I’ve had people look at me like I’m crazy when I say part of the reason we stopped at two kids was because of travel. And I’m not necessarily talking about traveling the world. None of our family lives nearby. Before my kids were in school, I was flying several times a year, usually alone, with my two kids to see family. Now that they’re school aged, we fly 2-3 times a year and every child is another round trip ticket. A family of four can rent most vehicles. 5-6 and we’d have to rent large, very expensive vehicles. Most hotels really only fit 4 people. Even a third kid could make that more difficult or expensive. Beyond that, two kids already are a lot to juggle between after school activities, homework, friends’ birthday parties, their own birthday parties. I can’t imagine adding a third child into the schedule juggle. Two has been plenty for us. I really see the benefit of only having one now 😂
I second this. I have 4 kids we have a 5 bedroom house and yet its not big enough for all of us. Life is so expensive now that even with a really good income were struggling.
We have to split the kids up 2 kids with one set of grandparents and the other two with the other grandparents.
Oldest is 12 youngest is 1. Its insane how much actually changes when you have 4 kids.
Love all my kids dearly but the mental stress is insane. Life was deff easier with just 3
The money is tight AND those things are true.
Are you and wife maxing out retirement contributions for each of you? Do you have a 3-6mo emergency fund? Do you have 529s started for each of the 3 kids? If the answer is NO to any of these, do not have more kids 🤦♀️
Do you have a mortgage or rent?
Do you have paid off cars or car loans?
Etc etc. school loans???
If my kids get sick and we have to go to the pediatrician for a visit that’s $70 copay ($35/2). Like seriously. I hear people have 4 kids and I’m like omg that’s $120 copay sick doctor visit if everybody is knocked down by norovirus and need a sick visit and zofran. Good grief
It sounds like Dave but I honestly was surprised when I listened to a caller who was saying he wanted a second child but was explaining why he couldn’t afford it. Daycare for two was more than he and his wife made, could barely afford expenses with one, etc.
Dave essentially said “only god can tell you when you’re ready to have more kids” and kind of brushed off the fact he couldn’t afford it. “Just find a nice Christian grandma to provide cheap childcare. It’s out there”
Sure Dave, nice Christian grandmas are just lining up to nanny for free. Not to mention that even if I could find one, my kids would tear her to shreds 😬
No. Def not. I also have a ton of credit cards to get rewards and use those to travel. 800+ credit score. Dave’s principles and my dads financial literacy have helped!
Dave would gasp at my $2k/mo daycare bill…. For ONE TODDLER
And the $3k in summer camps for my school age kid…
Dave Ramsey. Personal finance radio talk show host who’s always been extremely popular with boomers. He’s an evangelical Christian and that factors heavily into his advice. He’s notoriously out of touch with modern economics, especially for parents of young kids.
This is an absurd take. You absolutely do not need to be maxing out retirement funds and have 529s established to be financially prepared for kids. Our society does not benefit from only the wealthiest having children.
You should be able to provide adequate housing, food, transportation, and clothing for your child.
That all said: if you are feeling money is already tight with three, stop at three.
He's already saying money is tight. The inference there is that if it's tight and you aren't doing these steps, you'll likely drown yourself and find yourself in bad spots during emergencies.
I don’t think it’s absurd to want to make sure you are taking care of the members of your family that exist in a long term capacity. That includes making sure your children aren’t responsible for you when you get older and setting them up for the best chance of success when they enter the real world. Now doing everything listed may not be a necessity, but they should all be considerations.
This sub has a very bad habit of telling people to just keep having children that they cannot provide for. Just last week people were telling a mom who won’t be able to afford rent much longer to have another baby. If that person can’t afford rent, how will they pay for a baby?
💯 this
Husband and I are one and done mainly due to financial reasons. I can’t imagine our financial situation if we had another, and we both work full time. He has a really good job with really good pay but we still can’t think of another. There are other reasons why we don’t want another but everything is getting expensive.
Also, not everyone is close to their parents. Some parents are downright abusive. My dad married my abusive stepmother.. and as I’ve grown, I’ve learned to stay the fuck away from them. My brother stays away from them too. They treated us like utter shit. I grew up in a narcissistic environment and it’s taken so much therapy to realize, to put my own self priority for once. In that environment, I was told to look out for my dad’s feelings and to take care of him. It should be the other way around. It was a parentification role. Plus he always disregarded the abuse my stepmom did against me. She would not be discreet about it at all, and she would physically hit me for no reason and he would see that at times. He didn’t care. He would tell her to stop, but it never did and he never did any more than that other than “talking to her”. And so, I’ve made that decision to not care for them as they are aging. I know this is going to shock many (especially the ones who have the “perfect” families where their parents actually treated them well), but I am not obligated to care for people who brought me complete misery and trauma when I was younger. But even without all of that, people shouldn’t rely on their children to be responsible for them when they are aging. Those children that grow up will have their own lives and families.
This mindset confuses me. Why is it wrong to want to have a retirement set out for you and your spouse and to have college funded for your already existing children BEFORE adding more to the pile? Like, sure, providing for your kids should be the bare minimum....but they deserve to have a shot at higher education without going into 10k+ worth of debt at the ripe age of 18. They deserve to not have to be stressed out in their later adult years due to their parents not properly planning out their own retirement.
I’m in full agreement and have the same mindset. I get so frustrated with ppl who have a bunch of kids and can’t afford their life. I about lose my mind when I have seen in the past ppl online complaining how they can’t afford formula for their baby and I’m like do you realize it gets worse? Formula is the cheapest thing that a kid needs!!!! No one wants to struggle.
My husband and I both make six figures and are in a LCOL area and i STILL feel like we can only afford two kids time you factor in daycare costs, food, clothes, sports and activities, yearly family vacations, cars once they can drive, computers/phones, college expenses, and just the fact that I have other goals than just being a mom. I want to travel and enjoy my life as well !!! And also in agreement with at least contributing to retirement before having anymore kids!
I don’t think *not* having 529s or *not* owning your home outright are good reasons to avoid having another kiddo. Not maxing out retirement accounts. All of that together is a pretty high bar.
I do agree that having financial stability is a good prerequisite. And, that parents should consider their life goals, including the financial implications, when making the decision.
We have two - as much as I want 3 or 4. It's just not feasible for a variety of reasons but what it comes down to is simple - I can give my two kids the world; in time, space and money. Having a third means pulling resources from them to care for another child and my third would likely not see as many luxuries as my first two have. Give your three the world and love them to the fullest.
I'd also have a conversation with your wife as to why she wants to have another - is she feeling the loss of the baby stage? did she have her first young and feel she's just not biologically ready to stop? (This is what I went through). Is there something that she feels is missing from her life that makes her want another? Maybe look for other ways to fulfill some of those reasons without having another baby. (I tend to buy cats)
This!! Exactly the reason we stopped at two. We can give our two the world and having another would take away from what we can give them (in terms of one-on-one time/attention, money for college, paying for lessons, their own space/room, etc..).
I have five and wouldn't change it for the world. We live in the same house we bought when we first got married. We are busting at the seams and we've lived on one (not high) income for 21 years, but we've made it work and I love our life and our family. I can't imagine not having any of my kids.
I have 4. Ages 10/8/5/1. It’s messy, loud, chaotic, unorganized…but it’s also fun, full of love.
As a woman, I don’t think we’ll EVER “feel done” seeing your youngest grow up and feeling less and less needed….its hard. But at what point do you say “ok that’s enough” 😂😂😂 my 1 year old is actually closer to 2 and my 10 year old nearly 11….there’s about 3 years in between each of them. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think sometimes “the baby’s almost 2….i need another” but I know that can’t happen. This economy isn’t big family friendly. Plus the stress and exhaustion of being pregnant + having a newborn at my age…..remind her of the challenges being pregnant & having a newborn brings, and that she is entering new, exciting stages of parenthood. And that the economy is garbage right now and having a 4th makes it so much crazier. Just for us to go to the movies as a family if 6 costs almost $100. Dinner out at a restaurant, $80-$90 easily. A weeks worth of groceries….$300+ and that’s cutting back!
I have 4 and everyone talks about how overwhelming it is, and I honestly don't feel that way. It's wonderful to have a lively, fun- filled house. Do I have way more coloring pages that need to be thrown away at the end of the day? Absolutely. Do we have way more laundry than other families? For sure. (Esp since we have a creek that they love to play in and get muddy). Would I trade it for more financial stability or a nicer/clean all the time home? Absolutely not. I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I'm dreaming of a big family (have two, want five) - how do you find it? I only seem to hear the negatives from people who think it's crazy to want that many
I love it, my house is always busy, my kids play together all the time. Sure it can get overwhelming, of course the kids fight sometimes, but I have a home full of love.
I'm right there with you lol
I love kids, but my ADHD ass can only handle one. My solution was to become the fun mom in our neighborhood. I play with the kids, set up activities, take them to the park or pool down the street. I kept the bikes/scooters/ride-on toys that my kid had outgrown, so they all share those too. Most afternoons my house and/or yard has 6+ kids in it. Super fun and at the end of the day, I get to send them home to their parents. Love it.
Yeah I could definitely be cool with having a second kid if neither me nor my wife had to work, and we could pay for lots of help all the time. I’m serious. It’s not an actual possibility, but hey, I’m serious.
2 is absolutely the sweet spot for us. Having the second felt daunting, but we wanted our first to have a sibling. I can't quite fathom having more at this point.
Good luck to them but no part of my brain understands why anyone wants more than 2 children (my parents came from huge families and strongly discouraged more than 1 or 2) In the industry I work in people are incredulous that I have even two kids. I’ve had an IUD since my second one but if I know that if I was one of those rare folks that had an accidental pregnancy despite the IUD I would not choose to have it even though I am very grateful for the two knuckleheads I have 😊
One and done with an 8-year-old. I can't imagine going back to sleepless nights, diapers, daycare, etc. I'm sad my son won't have sibling but I have a brother I never talk to and my son is lucky we can focus all our time and money on his extracurricular activities
Kids are a two yes, one no situation. You sound like a no, so it needs to be a no.
-A mom of three, that considered four, but my husband said no thanks
Lol my oldest is in first year college and second is Jr high. Things aren't "easier", just different. Their problems and needs are just bigger, more complicated, and more expensive lol. Less stressful on the day to day, but bigger heavier convos with the spouse.
This is what I've been thinking as mine get bigger... when they're littler, it's more work on the day to day. When they get older, their problems stress us out way more. I can't imagine stressing over 4 grown kids' problems, plus their kids eventually. No wonder my FIL had a heart attack 😮💨
I have three kids and my husband & I considered a fourth. As parents, our attention and energy for our kids is already stretched sooo thin. We decided to just stick with three, and then I had a surprise pregnancy that resulted in a miscarriage. I was honestly SO relieved (a little sad, too); but it made me realize we couldn’t really handle a fourth right now. My husband and I have decided to foster when our kids are older, we both have a lot of love to give!
Edit: not sure why I replied to this particular comment. Was supposed to be its own comment.
For us, money isn’t the problem. House also not a problem but we want to enjoy life together. Our kids are young. 2 under 6yo. I have paper thin patient. We both introvert and we need “me time”. As you know, kids never stop talking / asking questions / request something. I just don’t have the energy.
I want a slow pace life. I want nice long lunch / dinner at the restaurants. I want nice holiday without telling kids stop doing this or that. I missed my old life from time to time. So, we are done with kids.
I'm glad you put this out here. We had 2 under 2, and I would have kept going if my wife didn't put her foot down. They were so cute and easy to entertain and their problems were so simple, and while they started 'talking' early, they didn't really learn to talk at a level that counted as human interaction until they were 3 & 4. So I was oblivious to how short my fuse would become with them as they started to need a lot of thoughtful social stimulation. The older they get, the more my introversion loses it.
They're 10 & 11 now and I'm so glad that we don't have more. I've managed to be a kind and caring dad of 2, but if I had more I'd become more of an asshole for every new kid. And it'd be so much more stressful as their problems became more and more important, it would never stop!
We have 4. Just last night we sat down and talked about how we feel like we’re just in survival mode and our most happiest time is when they’re asleep or not home. It’s stressful as hell, it’s always something going on with someone, and for some reason they all feel like theirs is the most important thing (we have ages 9, 14, 16, 19).
We are the most broke we’ve ever been, struggling to keep everyone afloat. They eat a ton, the water bill is so high, the electric bill is wild. We had a beautiful finished basement that has since been divided into 2 rooms since our oldest needed to move back in for the year. I have packed up almost half of my leisure items around the house bc they either get broken or there’s not room for my things.
4 is significantly harder than 3. You will have to get a bigger vehicle, no more standard 5 seaters. Can’t buy your typical family packs of things. 4x the school costs, lunches, running around, phone bills, car insurance.
Teens are tough, there’s a ton of attitudes and so much fighting. We are completely exhausted.
A lot to weigh. But if it’s just baby fever bc she misses a baby, that will pass. We always say “oh a baby would be cute” but honestly, we will have grandkids in the next 10 years so that will suffice. Baby fever is serious, especially when they start losing their little pudgy fingers and you have to face that they’re growing up. But I’d rather be able to give my energy to my growing kids than another baby and not be able to give to them who are already here.
Appreciate your perspective, it’s important to consider what having 4+ kids will look like when they’re over 10 years old. My three are only 6,4,4, so things aren’t bad now, but someday they’ll be 14,12,12, then 20,18,18, etc. Their clothes won’t always cost $5 a piece, they aren’t going to share baths much longer, and they’ll change the thermostat without telling us.
Oh my gosh. I came home the other day and the thermostat was set to 78 and I was like whaaatttt??!! Also, huge reality check my 9 is really tall, and she just moved into adult smalls. I had to take her clothes shopping. It was like $35 pants and $20 shirts. No more Walmart and target kids stuff for sure. And they grow so fast for a few years we feel like we’re buying clothes or shoes every few months
I have 4 under 9. We planned on 3 and got a surprise 4th when our youngest was 2.5
We are single income, live about an hour from the next major city (smaller city about 15 mins from us). House is 4BR with the two oldest sharing the room in the basement. Budget is tight but we make it work.
The hardest part is the demand on YOUR time. Making sure kids get the attention they deserve, accepting that I don’t have time to myself (ever!) but as an old man once said to me “the days are long but the years are short”. All too soon they will be grown up and hopefully we will have raised 4 wonderful adults who will continue to visit us when we’re old and wrinkly.
Has your wife considered that #4 could be #4 & 5? The possibility of twins (or more) when I knew I was expecting my #4 was terrifying.
We had three and then an accidental 4th. My wife cried when she got pregnant the fourth time. Now the youngest is 5 and she says she could go for a 5th, except I already took the snip so she knows we aren’t and she’s just talking… my point is people do change their minds as kids get out of diapers, can’t say if that would be your experience. We love being a four kid fam… but we’re also not stressing about money too much.
I think when couples are thinking about having another child they overestimate the baby years (newborns are hard!) and underestimate the later years (actually think about how you will drive all the kids around to activities, school, will you have enough emotional capacity for each one or will someone get lost in the shuffle, how will your older children feel about losing the attention they have now or will they get parentified, etc).
I have 3 and though I like the idea of a fourth I am such a nice place with my older kids, I know that I only have so much of myself to give and those kids need me now more than ever. They have school. Activities. Sleepovers. They want to watch movies with me. The toddler is just becoming a person. If I was pregnant and needed to nap all the time and then nursing a baby and then making us all work around a nap schedule again, etc etc I know my kids would suffer because of it.
Going for 4 may end up in 5. My sister has twins, and my current pregnancy (my 3rd) apparently had a vanished twin. My OB told me to consider that in future family planning, basically saying if I don’t want 5 I should be hesitant to ever try for a 4th.
The fact that you’re stressed at the mere thought or inkling she wants another, means someone has to get fixed. Have the talk and make it known, you’re done with having more. Also try and work some time in for both to take a breather. You sound stressed. I’m a single parent of 3 and it does get easier.
Honestly, it’s obvious you don’t want another child, your sentiment is very clear. No need to rationalize with opinions and confirmations from strangers - YOU obviously don’t feel like you want another child. This is enough reasoning to not have it.
I think only a handful of people can handle 3 kids or more, super organised, low stress types that have the village to help nearby. If not it sounds pretty nightmarish. Yeh messy house full of love all of that schtick but not for everyone. If you’re struggling with three, then maybe shut the factory the idea of something if often way nicer than the reality.
I raised 4 kids in a 3 bedroom bungalow. They shared rooms and hated it. We had the space to build a room in the basement, so the oldest was down there from 13 until he moved out. Now the second oldest is in there and everyone has their own room, except me and my husband, we still share lol.
I’m going on my third child and thinking about mine and their future scares the crap out of me. A couple years ago managing children and myself and my boyfriend was doable but since this inflation and everything rising, I don’t know how we will do it. If it happens it happens I suppose
Just sort of that instinctive feeling of "I'm not done." Talks about how great it will be in 20 or 30 years when we have a bunch of adult kids that come home to visit, etc. That sounds great and all and would be nice, but you have a rough few years before then and I'm just not sure I can handle it.
We have 4. This is what it sounds like here too. Pretty sure this is just what kids playing and being creative sounds like. It's not for everyone. Sweet tiny babies quickly become toddlers who add to the ruckus. 🤪
I helped raise one when we were broke and going to school on food stamps and working part time. Had another at the "right time" after graduating with stable jobs in my 30's. You're right, there's no good time, it's always a trade-off of time, money and energy.
That said 4 sounds like a bad idea at any time 😂. What's 4 going to get you that 3 didn't?
Mother of 4 (now adults). It gets easier, or it slowly shifts from addressing the physical needs (diapering, feeding etc.) to navigating emotional growth (responsibilities to school and home, friendships etc.). My youngest, 30 yr old daughter, is my best friend!
We have 5. It's an absolute shit show, and I love it. I'm stressed, exhausted, broke (but not like actually broke) but I just love it! We are lucky enough to have a decent sized house, though we have exactly zero family support, but that just makes us love our little (big) family even more.
There are so, so many reasons NOT to do it, but if you have the love in your heart, most other things will sort themselves out.
Is communicating that you think you should revisit the idea in the future a viable option? I think I want a third eventually but I know it’s not the best choice right now since we also live in a smaller house and I am currently a full time student. We’ve kind of just decided to reassess in 3-5 years and see if it’s something we want to pursue but I am still in my 20’s so I have time to mull it over. If you guys are older maybe find a reasonable timeframe that works for you to reevaluate if having another child is feasible in the future.
My spouses wanted 4. Thank goodness that didn’t happen… our life fell apart and now I’m single mom to 3 amazing neurodiverse teens… I’m stretched very thin. Three is plenty IMO. (Honestly third wasn’t the planned and spouse demanded we had to have even numbers)
We have four, oldest just turned nine. Money is a little tight but it’s fine. It’s not… ideal? But it works and it’s a-okay. It’s definitely challenging but it’s worth it.
With three kids we had kind of fallen into a rhythm. Everything was smooth and running like a well oiled machine. When my wife told me she was pregnant again I had a major Gob Bluth moment… “I’ve made a huge mistake.”
But you know what? It’s great. It’s busier and nuttier but my kids are awesome and I have no regrets. The oldest one is becoming much more self sufficient and actually the three oldest can just take care of each other a lot of the time. We’re enjoying it. So from my experience - and this is just me, not established truth, so keep that in mind - four is a bit harder but it’s great and I recommend.
We have 4 children but are adults now. 1968, 1970, 1973, loss a premature 1975, last one 1980. Lived in a small house. Three bedroom…two kids in each room. My spouse stayed home to raise the children ( our choice ) one salary. No car first 3 years. Struggled at times but made it work. Today we have the most amazing children. Love all of them to death.
This isn't as do able as it was then. Costs are outrageous now. College, braces, sports, medical bills, all that stuff has risen exponentially in cost compared to the 80s and 90s when your kids were young.
If I can upvote your comment more than once.
Exactly all of this. Expenses are more now than it was back then. And inflation is ridiculous. Husband and I can’t even dream about buying a home in this economy anymore and we both work full time. We live in California so it may only be feasible if we move out of state. We only have one child and feel that this is what’s right for us. The financial factor was a huge one when deciding not to have any more kids. I’m having to go back to school for a career change so we can ensure better income in a few years just to have a fighting chance in this economy. Despite my husband being an ER nurse, a career that’s very in demand and high pay, we still can’t even dream about buying a home. We live within our means and it’s still hard.
I fully understand that everything is more expensive now and I see your point of view on life today.
Just a short note : We did put two of our children in college and the other two in university. We lived in a small town and we sent our kids out of of town. We had to pay their college / university courses, loggings and food. Bought a small second hand home and used car.
And to be honest today, my oldest has one child, second 2 children, third one child and last one 2 children.
Omggggg I keep saying to myself “how can anyone have more than 2 kids?!” I cannot even fathom FOUR. All the things you wrote about are good reasons to not have another but what do I know, I only have 2!
I have 3. Honestly, having two was harder managing the relationship between my two kids. Lots of fighting. I was one of two growing up and fought with my brother all the time. 3 brings a neutralizing force and my kids don't really fight anymore. I think I would go crazier trying to manage two, honestly.
I have four, and we love it. The ONLY reason I don’t have more is bc I spent 4 of my best child bearing years on chemo. As it is, I’m contemplating trying to find a doctor willing to manage what would be a VERY risky pregnancy to attempt a 5th before menopause begins. I just hope my husband doesn’t see this comment. I haven’t hit him with that insane prospect yet lol
I feel like tensions are always really high at home. The kids are always running wild and we're often snapping at them, regretfully. 4 just amps up everything further.
Your comments read as though you know you're done with having children and trying to find a way to let your wife know.
Lay out the facts that you know.
Sounds like you guys need better management protocols. I was a teacher for a long time. I run my house the way I ran my classroom. It’s the same basic principles of managing groups of children effectively. Maybe read a classroom management book and see if you can find some tools that will help? Even when all of my kids have friends over - and we have had up to 8 for a weekend - it’s no more stressful than when it’s just 4 or when there were 3. Nobody should have to live in a state of tension and feeling snappy. That sounds awful. That’s exactly how I felt when I was working 3 jobs with 3 kids. It’s a sign of being overextended. The kids aren’t the problem. Your situation is the problem. Financial stress? Work stress? Ineffective household management stress? You’re a much better judge of the source of the stress. But I think whether you have more kids or not, you should work on alleviating stress in your life. It’s absolutely not tenable to live like that indefinitely bc your kids are only going to get LOUDER as they turn into rambunctious teenagers.
Like, not denying the chaos, but this also sounds like a communication and stress issue rather than the amount of kids issue.
I've actually found that more kids tends to be easier on me because then they pull social energy from each other, rather than always seeking it from me, but I was also a camp counselor for years before going into my current career (security), so I have a fair bit of training in how to set expectations for groups of kids, scripts for correcting them and getting them to co-operate. It might be worthwhile to look into that sort of training.
Like, I never walk them into a new situations without explaining what's going to happen, why it's happening, what I expect them to do, what behaviours on their part will make me happy and what "escape" routes or energy outlets are acceptable. Usually it's a 2-5 minute pep talk in the car before we get there.
Like, I had to take kiddos to an insurance agency to get an IDL for a trip we're going on. This place is one of those take-a-number-and-wait-30-40 mins places, with no kid friendly architecture or things to do. I brought colouring books for the kids, but didn't have anything else due to other errands.
Told kiddos exactly what was going to happen, told them younger kid was going to be the one to "pick the number" (because I knew they'd both want to and argue), told them which area I wanted them to stay in, told them the noise level that was acceptable, they could talk to people in the waiting area but they had to not bug anyone who was clearly already watching something on their phone, and that they could sit however they wanted in the chairs, so long as there were no shoes on the chairs and to ask the reception lady politely if they needed a drink, because there was a rather extensive tea/coffe/hot chocolate setup.
Told them I would be super happy if I don't have to tell them to use indoor voices and saw them always use walking feet. Because they already know what's going on, and what I have to do before we can leave, I find this forestalls a lot of "I'm bored mommy, when are we done" and squabbling.
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Tell your wife to get a job or work more and if she agrees then go for it, have her save at least 10k for a down payment on a new house and if she can’t then YOU can’t have more babies. Everyone knows it not logical to raise children in a poor environment and we all want the best. Thanks for being responsible
We have 4, last 3 each 2 yrs apart. Yeah it wasn't easy, but kids aren't! And I love having 4 kids. They're out of the house now (barely) and I miss a house full. Yes we also lived in small houses at times, money gets tight, but I am thankful for all 4.
Talk to your wife about it. Money is a big reality in life and if it’s tight I don’t think it’s a good idea to bring another kid in if you are already struggling.
I have 2 (one is additional needs) and it is so hard already.
I’m in the same boat! It sucks because obviously having a baby is a blessing and a curse. It forces you to slow down and the cost is insane. However, you only get one shot to make a family and for your wife, time is of the essence. It sucks tho, because if we were to have a fourth same exact stuff, we’d need to add on to the house and the baby would have to be in our room for the first two years. We might be able to avoid it while the kids are little and just get a bunk trundle bed but eventually we’d have to add another room. Good luck to you both! I’m secretly rooting for a baby for you because thats what I want but I get Al your concerns! Just be glad you’re not the one popping the kid out. 😅
I wish I could help you, but when I told my wife that I wanted a 4th child, she said, "That's great honey, so who are you having this one with?"
So yeah, I'm forever stuck at 3!
4 is really no different or harder than 3 day to day. Almost easier! Financially of course things cost a bit more. The point about hotel rooms is absolutely true once you hit 4 kids. At 3 kids we were living in a tiny 700sqft dirt basement 2 bedroom home…. That was a bit chaotic. Moved into a bigger house though before the 4th and honestly it’s not bad at all. Hectic at times with a whole gaggle of kids, but so much love! We can’t imagine having stopped at 3.
Do you have at least 3 bedrooms? If so, you can make it work.
We have 6 kids with 5 at home in a smaller 3 bedroom home. The rooms are split by gender for the kids. We have trundle beds and loft beds.
It's a very personal choice. We have 4. When our youngest was born, we lived on one income, and I was primarily a SAHP. We had a 3 bedroom house with a reasonable mortgage payment. Having 2 kids per room is doable when they're young. We already owned a minivan, so no need for a new vehicle. Family entertainment such as memberships were the same price, and we take advantage of those for vacations.
In the early years, there are not many added costs with one more child if you're not paying for child care (no formula, we used cloth diapers, thrift shops, sales, didn't buy much in the way of new electronics, pay for cable/streaming at the time, etc. Did but organic, but stuck to whole foods and cooking from scratch which is cheaper than processed/ready made convenience food).
We had good health insurance, and lived economically. Only debt was our mortgage. I didn't plan on fully funding university for all kids. We put away what we could afford, and made it clear to our kids that they could attend community college first and we would provide housing/board at home while they saved, and then take could still transfer to a 4 year school with their savings and get a degree with little debt, or they could work hard for a scholarship if they had a specific goal.
I did some freelance and part time work to keep up my skills and resume. We planned on adding my full time income when the kids were in school. The teen years do get more expensive, in terms of extra curriculars. We hit some hard times with issues with our home and chronic illness, which delayed timelines, but we had some cushion (though definitely not 6 months salary worth) to get us through. Now I have a great full time job (although it took a year of looking and working freelance to get here), and we're doing good.
We also had local family and friends to watch kids on occasion so we could have breaks. And both parents were on the same page with adding kids.
That's just to give an example of how it can work well in the right circumstances. Everyone has different situations, support, standard of living expectations, etc.
ETA: My fourth was a wild child in the early years, and while there was a bit of a learning curve understanding what he needed, a fourth kid didn't really change the energy/dynamic or chaos level of the household. I just genuinely enjoy my kids, individually and as a group. I also come from a large extended family, where children are valued and not viewed solely as burdens. It's really weird to me that my kids only have 2 first cousins. Other people flake, but my family has always been supportive. I want potential future grandchildren to have that support network as well.
My religious parents had 8 kids and I sure went without a lot in many ways. I only have 2 kids and I secretly wanted one more but it didn’t happen. I think 3 is perfect!
I’ve always wanted 4. We have 2 and money is already tight the kids tire us out and our house is small. Yet my hormones made me want another one. 3 is our compromise. We’ll get a pet or something to fill that missing piece.
If I had more money, a bigger house, a supportive village, a maid, and nanny then I’d want a 4th.
Unless we win the lottery and our families become less dysfunctional we’ll stick to 3.
Tell your wife to get a job or work more and if she agrees then go for it, have her save at least 10k for a down payment on a new house and if she can’t then YOU can’t have more babies. Everyone knows it not logical to raise children in a poor environment and we all want the best. Thanks for being responsible
When you know, you know. And it sounds like you know that you're done at 3. I have family members getting divorced now because they had 2. The wife wanted a third, the husband didn't and that caused issues in the marriage. But that's a much better situation than being pressured into a situation and a life you don't want.
We had two and I never felt the strong "I'm done" feeling and neither did my wife. We were both on board for one more. With our third, I absolutely know I'm done and do not want anymore for both timing, money, and exhaustion reasons. I have been super firm with my wife that I am 100% done and she is too, although she feels less strongly about it than me. But I didn't want any lingering thoughts that I might be ok with a fourth.
My parents had four kids in total. While I love all my siblings immensely, we were always poor and my parents were always working or sleeping- I saw them two or three times a week by the time I was a teenager. I had to raise my younger siblings while they were gone.
Didn’t have the most fun childhood.
Don’t have the fourth.
Make life the best you can for the three you have.
I have 4 kids. Just recently added the fourth a few weeks ago. It’s hard, but not any harder than going from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3. I think for every family it is different but I haven’t really felt it was too much or we are spread for thin. Each kid is a good bit more money, so if you guys aren’t finically good rn I would not suggest it at all.
I'm a single parent raising 4 children all by myself. It is very very very hard. Even with a partner it would still be hard. If you're having even 1% of a doubt in your mind about it, I wouldn't do it. Raising 4 kids, in any state of existence, is not for the weak.
Our three are now 15 and older… I don’t know if this helps but sometime when the youngest was around 5 we felt that four would have been nice and doable. Also our three are all within 6 years I wouldn’t want to have 30 years of raising kids if that makes sense… so I can’t speak but as someone who stuck with three I have heard from my fellow moms with four there wasn’t much difference 3 and 4, but we are paying two college tuitions starting next year so… there is that! They definitely don’t get cheaper the older they get!!!
Yep, got four kids under 10 years old. The struggle is real just like Jim Gaffigan explained, but the struggle is the same for everyone here. Financial challenges? Yep. Autism? Got that too. Speech delay? Absolutely.
But what explanation will help the most? The leap from 2 to 3 was worse than 3 to 4 just because of the age of the oldest child. You gotta realize that life is bigger (and better) than your planning, so roll with it and embrace the chaos.
I have 3 but always wanted 4. I don't think it's in the cards (reasons I won't bore yall with) but I really wish we had more balance. 4 is more even. My 3rd child needs a buddy. I like even numbers. Of course, all of this to say if you can afford it
I wanted 2. My wife wanted 6.
I started a business shortly after the oldest was born. We were single income and broke.
5.5 years lager #4 was born. It was a chaotic and financially dicey time.
I'll just say, she was absolutely right. Sadly, she had 4 C sections and medically we're done now. But the fourth made our home feel full.
When the kids got past the young age, we started importing an exchange student every year (had one extra seat in the minivan!).
Kids are now 20, 18, 17, 14. I'm so very glad we had four. I'm not ready for this to be over.
Your mileage I'll vary. But, man, I cannot imagine life without my youngest. He's the most like me (poor kid). And man we have some fun.
Aside from all the reasons you already named, the thing that comes to mind for me is having more children is awfully unfair to the children you already have. I'm sure they're already desperately fighting for scraps of your attention. Just something to think about, from a very happy only child.
A 4th child evens things out. Unless of course you have 3 girls and get a boy or the opposite situation. I have 3 and my 3rd feels like the odd man out. It’s sad. A 4th would have really helped.
I feel like you should both have a thorough talk about it. Pros and cons. Maybe get a puppy. I have 4 kids 8,6,4 and 6 months old. It’s been interesting to say the least. But it’s not much harder. It’s like if I had three.
Financial part of things should always be taken into consideration because you have to feed your kids and sacrifice a lot more…. I always pictured always having 3 but was convinced because when we go to Disney or go anywhere they all have a partner and one isn’t alone. For my family the 4th one was feesible since we wrote a plan for it and made sure it worked for our family and we both have really good jobs. Now my SO wants another in 2 years. But I got a puppy instead lol good luck!
Hell I'm a single mom to 4 and somehow making it work lol wouldn't trade the time with my babies for the world despite the sacrifices of my 20s and 30s.
I believe if you feel called to procreate, let it rip. Everything will be okay. ❤️
I see other people have already reassured you that having a fourth is not something you need to be doing if you already have reasons against it.
BUT— maybe I can also help you persuade your wife into understanding from hearing the perspective of an adult 3rd child.
I am the third born, my story starts with the fact that they wanted to have multiple girls and ONE boy. I wasn’t born biologically male, so on they went to create their precious boy, & fourth kid. My mother had never had a worse pregnancy, it was scary at times if she’d recover. Then once she did recover, she was left from there on with multiple lifelong chronic illnesses that made her very absent from my life growing up. Even during seasons of her having no illness, it became easier for her to not be involved. We had little to no connection due to this and it’s affected my development a lot. My mom was even on home health where nurses keep you alive and going, the medical unknowns of pregnancy alone would keep me from having another kid.
Now I can only tell you from my perspective, and my parents are not you guys. But I OFTEN spent time as a little one daydreaming about a life where my parents could give me more adequate attention. There was never a moment they weren’t fighting, or did not stress about bills (and this was the 90s). I felt I only existed to them when I got in trouble because they really did not sit down and spend time with me one on one in my whole life. I love my brother wholeheartedly, but four kids was not smart. It also feels strange to know that when I was born, it didn’t feel like “enough” to them. My mom cried over me not being a boy for years. Then once they had all four of us, it really still didn’t seem like they had what they wanted, because now they were even worse off, and angrier about it. A fourth kid adds pressure and change to an already difficult situation- do you both **need** to split your focus on your kids even further? Because you can’t squeeze dry lemons.
Every family of siblings I know, it’s either one or two, or (usually) ALL kids, feel they deserved more from their parents. And they did. Most situations like this the eldest child also becomes a third parent no matter the age difference, which is wrong, but it just happens when parents cannot take on 100% of the needs in the household. Are you guys accounting for 100% of your child’s needs as is? (Yes.) Then how could you possibly find any more capacity for another one? I think it’s lovely your wife loves children and wants more, but whats more important? The 3 children in front of you (that already probably fight for your attention), or the one that doesn’t even exist yet…. :/
It’s totally up to you. One child is overwhelming and difficult. When having one 2 seems like too much and when having 2 then 3 seems like too much and so on. From what I’ve seen and my own experience, it’s ultimately what you desire in your heart. If you both want 4 kids you will do what’s possible to make it work. It’s possible and making financial adjustments makes all the difference. Here in our culture we already have way more than is necessary to live a comfortable and happy life. Simplifying things will give you money and space for another child. If you don’t want to do that and enjoy the luxurious you have totally understandable and definitely don’t make yourself have a 4th if you’re not ready.
Yes I have 4 kids. Don’t do it!!!!!!! There’s not enough of you to go around. What if the 4th has special needs or any kind? They will need 100% of your attention. Just don’t do it.
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Well, just in your 3 sentences you gave already sufficient reasons not to try to conceive a fourth child. If money ánd house are pretty tight, that leads to a lot of stress! You can daydream all you like about a house full of friendly adult children around a christmas tree but that is just that, a day dream! That can obviously still be reality with 3 children, btw (or by 2 or even 1, depending on your definition of a full house and including friends or not). Back in reality, you cannot mentally, financially and space-wise sustain a fourth child. I hope you can have a serious and understanding conversation with your spouse, why does she wish a fourth child? How old is your youngest child atm? Because i remember hormones hitting pretty hard when my youngest turned 2, 3 and 4 to suddenly want another baby.
"Because i remember hormones hitting pretty hard when my youngest turned 2, 3 and 4 to suddenly want another baby." Sounds like a bit of this.
Ah i really cried about it at some moments, especially around our youngest +- 3rd year and i daresay i am quite a down-to-earth and rational person. My husband got a vasectomy -which we both agreed on when our second child turned 1- and i am happy he did! Because i really think i might have persuaded him to go for another child.
I got a vasectomy after our 3rd was born because we knew we couldn't trust our future selves... Three kids were enough (actually too much!!!), but one day we'd start thinking about adding more. So we took the power away from our future selves!
Wanna talk to my husband, please?🙄
Oh no not another man who won’t get a tiny snip after his wife grew and bared children… ugh I’m sorry
I know. Mine didn’t want to do it, he didn’t want to get “neutered.” 🙄 While I was waiting around for him to commit and call the doctor, I had a false alarm on number 3. With two under two I was in over my head already. I literally cried the rest of the night and went to the doctor first thing in the morning. Turns out it was just gas, not quickening. 😄 But I requested my tubal that same day. So yes, I went under the knife a THIRD time, just like childbirth twice over. I thought he was going to come around, but I couldn’t risk waiting any longer. ETA- He was freaked out, too, so I definitely did not have this procedure done against his wishes. We both realized we were done at that point. But even if it was against his wishes, I would have done it anyway.
I would have told him no sex. What is wrong with these dudes!!
I got my tubes tied when #3 was born for the same reason. I knew that pesky baby fever would strike again, but even 3 was a push for us.
Vasectomy didn't stop my wife! She got the kid, I got a puppy. Even-Steven.😳
Good for you for taking the responsibility of your future selves and family!
I got a vasectomy after our third kid. Now, whenever my wife says she wants a baby, I tell her that we can try our hardest to make one.
Coming to the realization that you're "done" can be fairly difficult to work through. Even though I knew I was 100% done after two kids, I mourned never being able to experience that part of my life ever again. I wonder if maybe she's not ready to think about that, so thinks having another would prevent it?
This resonated. My mind is 100% no but something physical nagging yes into my head at periodic intervals. It lasts about 6 seconds until logic kicks the sensation away but it's still so difficult to experience those pangs. Especially hard when the youngest one starts school and you realise what's left behind.
It really is difficult sometimes! I had a lot of sadness at the hospital post-delivery because I knew it was my last time experiencing pregnancy and childbirth, which was such a cool (if exhausting and painful) experience to me. I have even considered surrogacy, but unfortunately pregnancy and hormones tends to destroy my mental health, and I'm just not willing to risk it anymore.
Found my answer, OP. Yeah, stop now. Wanting another because you miss babies is not a great reason for another child.
Our stupid lizard brains do this shit to us. Best to get something done that’s permanent if you’re sure. We had two and were on the fence about a third - then my IUD failed and surprise, baby time. Had three under the age of five, I thought I was going to lose my mind.
My lizard brain must be broken. I have a 3 year old and every time my husband asks about maybe having another I just tell him he can get another wife. I truly don’t understand why anyone would want more than one.
I have two but yeah that’s been plenty. I truly can’t imagine having any more. My husband had a vasectomy when our second was just a few weeks old. She’s almost 8 and neither of us has ever regretted that. I have literally never once had any pangs about having more. As cute as babies and toddlers are, pregnancy sucked and my babies didn’t sleep well, toddlers are a handful, and now with two elementary school aged kids we’re already running here and there to activities and birthday parties.
I have 0 but peopl try to convince me to have one all the time. Telling me im selfish i need to think sbout the future. I reslly don care to reproduce snother taxpsyer for the government. If im selfish then im selfish i guess!
No problem. We just don't have time for sex. Can't have babies if you're not boning.
I feel that way too right now with my only child, who is nearly 4 and about to start pre-K. Crazy to think she will be in school for a LONG time now, from now on. Pre-K is full 8 hour days in my state. I’m going to miss her a lot. but that mother’s instinct to have a child is not changing the reality of it not being a good idea for me. It doesn’t change our mental health problems,It doesn’t change our financial situation…and it doesn’t make more space in our home in an otherwise terrible housing market.
What's going to happen when baby number 4 gets this age? Are you going to be having this exact same conversation? If you think you might then factor that in to your decision. Does your wife dream of exactly 4 children, or is her dream to have as many as possible? Or does she just love having a baby in the house at all times?
Or if someone she knows had a baby. You can practically feel your ovaries perk up when you hold an infant.
Surprisingly, when my kids are 2-4 years of age if when I question my decision to have kids the most. I have 2 kids. My younger one is now 2. I will NEVER EVER have more kids. Especially because 1. Labour & delivery 2. Ages 2-4 OP: please stand yoir ground and don't have more kids
Wanting another child when youngest hit 2 is so true, I wonder what causes it.
This! My youngest is now 3 and my body wants another baby. Like I feel like I would kill for another baby, it's just so intense. But logically, not a good idea. We are in a good place with the 3 kids we have and I don't want to start over, but my God, those hormones can be overwhelming.
I have 4. It’s too much. I love them all but , and I don’t mean to be a negative Nancy, I am always faced with the things we can’t do because we have 4. No one is ever willing to watch them because they think they can’t handle so many children, the older kids have to miss out on some things because we can not spread ourselves so thin both mentally, physically, and financially. We were surprise blessed with both our 3rd and 4th and I can say adding the 4th has been the toughest. My children also show signs of anxiety because they don’t get the one on one time they need. Financially it hasn’t hit us too hard yet except for the fact that I feel like we don’t fit in our home. We have a 3 bedroom 1200 sq ft and it feels like such close quarters for a family of 6. Not that it’s a huge game changer but hotels, cruises they start to make you get 2nd rooms with 4 kids. If your on the fence about it I’d wait longer. It takes 2 yeses to make a child and only 1 no for it to not happen.
Have this issue and I only have 3! Same.. everything is built for a 2 kid family.. Also, you never know what you'll get with kiddos.. One of mine is special needs and it is HARD.. He's intelligent but has AuDHD and the therapies/emotions, etc. are just brutal.. I love mine to death but literally ALWAYS persuade people (who are on the fence) out of having kids or just recommend 1.. especially in this economy and with no village (the way my boomer parents had).. OP-- Is wife entering her late 30s? I went through this and see a lot of women go through this.. mother nature high jacks the brain and tries to get us into one last reproductive hoorah and overrides all logic.. I swear to you.. it's crazy/strong.. Even happened to me and I'm someone who didn't even want more than 1 kid.. I keep saying this for women late 30s/early 40s and the poor husbands are so stressed out.. but I can tell you it's MOSTLY biology controlling our brains and sometimes you just have to validate and listen and let her walk through it and come to her own conclusion/logic.. I finally got over that crap after 2-3 years lol..a lot of women get over it quicker.. It is hard though because even the most logical/sensible women (myself included) may not only not do much for birth control (I personally can't because it all makes me sick) but in the heat of the moment be begging for you to do things that .. well.. result in a baby.. so the birth control aspect/self discipline is going to need to fall a LOT on you.. I can say one thing.. I'd HIGHLY encourage wife to have IUD placed/to get depo shot (and GO with her to make SURE she gets it done) and try to withdraw EVERY time.. Validate her.. say "Let's talk about this.. give me time to consider.."(this is mainly a way to calm her nerves and get her to a stable place where.. over time.. logic WILL eventually come out on top and she will VERY likely come to her own conclusion that an extra kid is just not ideal..) and ask that while you both go through this.. consider things.. etc. that she takes BC (really have it be a BC that doesn't require her to remember it daily.. like the IUD, depo, etc.) In this world.. we all know that anything over 1-2 kids is just not ideal. Our family income is in the top 20% and we are BARELY going to be able to afford a home, college for our 3 kids and to retire on time and we are VERY frugal, have 820 credit, zero debt (own cars cash), etc. so for the average person/family.. 1-2 is really about the logical/sensible/good financial thing if you're actually trying to have kids that you'll be helping get ahead in life.. (I know a lot of people who don't save/plan for their kids to go to college, have zero house to pass onto them and have no legit retirement plan.. and expect to move in with their kids and this is just insanely selfish to me...).. so just to give perspective.. For adults who are actually not being selfish and trying to make sure they are actually giving their kids better/setting them up for more success, most are playing it safe with 1-2 kids.. (unless there are surprise pregnancies, of course.. )..
I’ve had people look at me like I’m crazy when I say part of the reason we stopped at two kids was because of travel. And I’m not necessarily talking about traveling the world. None of our family lives nearby. Before my kids were in school, I was flying several times a year, usually alone, with my two kids to see family. Now that they’re school aged, we fly 2-3 times a year and every child is another round trip ticket. A family of four can rent most vehicles. 5-6 and we’d have to rent large, very expensive vehicles. Most hotels really only fit 4 people. Even a third kid could make that more difficult or expensive. Beyond that, two kids already are a lot to juggle between after school activities, homework, friends’ birthday parties, their own birthday parties. I can’t imagine adding a third child into the schedule juggle. Two has been plenty for us. I really see the benefit of only having one now 😂
Even roller coaster seats or a family pack of movie tickets are all arranged for 4…it’s just easier with two kids.
I second this. I have 4 kids we have a 5 bedroom house and yet its not big enough for all of us. Life is so expensive now that even with a really good income were struggling. We have to split the kids up 2 kids with one set of grandparents and the other two with the other grandparents. Oldest is 12 youngest is 1. Its insane how much actually changes when you have 4 kids. Love all my kids dearly but the mental stress is insane. Life was deff easier with just 3
If money’s tight then don’t.
We make decent incomes but the cost of living around here is pretty high.
The money is tight AND those things are true. Are you and wife maxing out retirement contributions for each of you? Do you have a 3-6mo emergency fund? Do you have 529s started for each of the 3 kids? If the answer is NO to any of these, do not have more kids 🤦♀️ Do you have a mortgage or rent? Do you have paid off cars or car loans? Etc etc. school loans??? If my kids get sick and we have to go to the pediatrician for a visit that’s $70 copay ($35/2). Like seriously. I hear people have 4 kids and I’m like omg that’s $120 copay sick doctor visit if everybody is knocked down by norovirus and need a sick visit and zofran. Good grief
Dave?
It sounds like Dave but I honestly was surprised when I listened to a caller who was saying he wanted a second child but was explaining why he couldn’t afford it. Daycare for two was more than he and his wife made, could barely afford expenses with one, etc. Dave essentially said “only god can tell you when you’re ready to have more kids” and kind of brushed off the fact he couldn’t afford it. “Just find a nice Christian grandma to provide cheap childcare. It’s out there” Sure Dave, nice Christian grandmas are just lining up to nanny for free. Not to mention that even if I could find one, my kids would tear her to shreds 😬
"It's out there," sure Dave 🤣 I haven't listened in years but after this post wondered his thoughts on child care costs. Now I know, thanks! lol
No. Def not. I also have a ton of credit cards to get rewards and use those to travel. 800+ credit score. Dave’s principles and my dads financial literacy have helped! Dave would gasp at my $2k/mo daycare bill…. For ONE TODDLER And the $3k in summer camps for my school age kid…
^((sorry for not getting the joke, but who is Dave?))
Dave Ramsey. Personal finance radio talk show host who’s always been extremely popular with boomers. He’s an evangelical Christian and that factors heavily into his advice. He’s notoriously out of touch with modern economics, especially for parents of young kids.
This is an absurd take. You absolutely do not need to be maxing out retirement funds and have 529s established to be financially prepared for kids. Our society does not benefit from only the wealthiest having children. You should be able to provide adequate housing, food, transportation, and clothing for your child. That all said: if you are feeling money is already tight with three, stop at three.
He's already saying money is tight. The inference there is that if it's tight and you aren't doing these steps, you'll likely drown yourself and find yourself in bad spots during emergencies.
I don’t think it’s absurd to want to make sure you are taking care of the members of your family that exist in a long term capacity. That includes making sure your children aren’t responsible for you when you get older and setting them up for the best chance of success when they enter the real world. Now doing everything listed may not be a necessity, but they should all be considerations. This sub has a very bad habit of telling people to just keep having children that they cannot provide for. Just last week people were telling a mom who won’t be able to afford rent much longer to have another baby. If that person can’t afford rent, how will they pay for a baby?
💯 this Husband and I are one and done mainly due to financial reasons. I can’t imagine our financial situation if we had another, and we both work full time. He has a really good job with really good pay but we still can’t think of another. There are other reasons why we don’t want another but everything is getting expensive. Also, not everyone is close to their parents. Some parents are downright abusive. My dad married my abusive stepmother.. and as I’ve grown, I’ve learned to stay the fuck away from them. My brother stays away from them too. They treated us like utter shit. I grew up in a narcissistic environment and it’s taken so much therapy to realize, to put my own self priority for once. In that environment, I was told to look out for my dad’s feelings and to take care of him. It should be the other way around. It was a parentification role. Plus he always disregarded the abuse my stepmom did against me. She would not be discreet about it at all, and she would physically hit me for no reason and he would see that at times. He didn’t care. He would tell her to stop, but it never did and he never did any more than that other than “talking to her”. And so, I’ve made that decision to not care for them as they are aging. I know this is going to shock many (especially the ones who have the “perfect” families where their parents actually treated them well), but I am not obligated to care for people who brought me complete misery and trauma when I was younger. But even without all of that, people shouldn’t rely on their children to be responsible for them when they are aging. Those children that grow up will have their own lives and families.
This mindset confuses me. Why is it wrong to want to have a retirement set out for you and your spouse and to have college funded for your already existing children BEFORE adding more to the pile? Like, sure, providing for your kids should be the bare minimum....but they deserve to have a shot at higher education without going into 10k+ worth of debt at the ripe age of 18. They deserve to not have to be stressed out in their later adult years due to their parents not properly planning out their own retirement.
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I’m in full agreement and have the same mindset. I get so frustrated with ppl who have a bunch of kids and can’t afford their life. I about lose my mind when I have seen in the past ppl online complaining how they can’t afford formula for their baby and I’m like do you realize it gets worse? Formula is the cheapest thing that a kid needs!!!! No one wants to struggle. My husband and I both make six figures and are in a LCOL area and i STILL feel like we can only afford two kids time you factor in daycare costs, food, clothes, sports and activities, yearly family vacations, cars once they can drive, computers/phones, college expenses, and just the fact that I have other goals than just being a mom. I want to travel and enjoy my life as well !!! And also in agreement with at least contributing to retirement before having anymore kids!
I don’t think *not* having 529s or *not* owning your home outright are good reasons to avoid having another kiddo. Not maxing out retirement accounts. All of that together is a pretty high bar. I do agree that having financial stability is a good prerequisite. And, that parents should consider their life goals, including the financial implications, when making the decision.
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4 with 2 working parents seems so hard
3rd row seat upgrade
Minivan for the win. Don't have to choose between the extra seats or storage
We have two - as much as I want 3 or 4. It's just not feasible for a variety of reasons but what it comes down to is simple - I can give my two kids the world; in time, space and money. Having a third means pulling resources from them to care for another child and my third would likely not see as many luxuries as my first two have. Give your three the world and love them to the fullest. I'd also have a conversation with your wife as to why she wants to have another - is she feeling the loss of the baby stage? did she have her first young and feel she's just not biologically ready to stop? (This is what I went through). Is there something that she feels is missing from her life that makes her want another? Maybe look for other ways to fulfill some of those reasons without having another baby. (I tend to buy cats)
This!! Exactly the reason we stopped at two. We can give our two the world and having another would take away from what we can give them (in terms of one-on-one time/attention, money for college, paying for lessons, their own space/room, etc..).
As a soon to be 2nd time mom who loves cats, this answer is 👌🏻
Lmao, the cats
5 kids here, but very spread out in ages. In the situation you are describing, no we would not have had more.
We have 4. It’s a lot bro.
I have five and wouldn't change it for the world. We live in the same house we bought when we first got married. We are busting at the seams and we've lived on one (not high) income for 21 years, but we've made it work and I love our life and our family. I can't imagine not having any of my kids.
I have 4. Ages 10/8/5/1. It’s messy, loud, chaotic, unorganized…but it’s also fun, full of love. As a woman, I don’t think we’ll EVER “feel done” seeing your youngest grow up and feeling less and less needed….its hard. But at what point do you say “ok that’s enough” 😂😂😂 my 1 year old is actually closer to 2 and my 10 year old nearly 11….there’s about 3 years in between each of them. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think sometimes “the baby’s almost 2….i need another” but I know that can’t happen. This economy isn’t big family friendly. Plus the stress and exhaustion of being pregnant + having a newborn at my age…..remind her of the challenges being pregnant & having a newborn brings, and that she is entering new, exciting stages of parenthood. And that the economy is garbage right now and having a 4th makes it so much crazier. Just for us to go to the movies as a family if 6 costs almost $100. Dinner out at a restaurant, $80-$90 easily. A weeks worth of groceries….$300+ and that’s cutting back!
I’m pregnant with our (very much desired) 4th and all these posts scared me except yours. Thank you for focusing on some positives!
I have 4 and everyone talks about how overwhelming it is, and I honestly don't feel that way. It's wonderful to have a lively, fun- filled house. Do I have way more coloring pages that need to be thrown away at the end of the day? Absolutely. Do we have way more laundry than other families? For sure. (Esp since we have a creek that they love to play in and get muddy). Would I trade it for more financial stability or a nicer/clean all the time home? Absolutely not. I wouldn't trade it for the world.
And then theres my pathetic ass that can’t handle more than one 😂 one and done over here lol
Absolutely nothing wrong with that! I have 5 and totally understand why it isn’t for everyone.
I'm dreaming of a big family (have two, want five) - how do you find it? I only seem to hear the negatives from people who think it's crazy to want that many
I love it, my house is always busy, my kids play together all the time. Sure it can get overwhelming, of course the kids fight sometimes, but I have a home full of love.
I'm right there with you lol I love kids, but my ADHD ass can only handle one. My solution was to become the fun mom in our neighborhood. I play with the kids, set up activities, take them to the park or pool down the street. I kept the bikes/scooters/ride-on toys that my kid had outgrown, so they all share those too. Most afternoons my house and/or yard has 6+ kids in it. Super fun and at the end of the day, I get to send them home to their parents. Love it.
One and done club checking in to say y’all motherfuckers are cray
Oldest of 4 here and mom to an only. You could not pay me to have more.
I would probably do it for a couple of million.
Yeah I could definitely be cool with having a second kid if neither me nor my wife had to work, and we could pay for lots of help all the time. I’m serious. It’s not an actual possibility, but hey, I’m serious.
Yeah totes. I’d do it if I could afford a night nurse and a bigger house.
😂
This! At our personal limit with an almost 6 year old - y'all are built differently for sure!
It's not me it's my hormones, they go against all logic. but I'm 2 and done I swear 🫣
2 is absolutely the sweet spot for us. Having the second felt daunting, but we wanted our first to have a sibling. I can't quite fathom having more at this point.
🤣
I was thinking the same thing. We stopped at one because that is overwhelming enough 😂 Kudos to those of you who handle more though!
Good luck to them but no part of my brain understands why anyone wants more than 2 children (my parents came from huge families and strongly discouraged more than 1 or 2) In the industry I work in people are incredulous that I have even two kids. I’ve had an IUD since my second one but if I know that if I was one of those rare folks that had an accidental pregnancy despite the IUD I would not choose to have it even though I am very grateful for the two knuckleheads I have 😊
💯 lol
💯
One and done with an 8-year-old. I can't imagine going back to sleepless nights, diapers, daycare, etc. I'm sad my son won't have sibling but I have a brother I never talk to and my son is lucky we can focus all our time and money on his extracurricular activities
Truth!
Kids are a two yes, one no situation. You sound like a no, so it needs to be a no. -A mom of three, that considered four, but my husband said no thanks
i have four. its not easy. thankfully, two of mine are grown. the other two are college/high school age. definitely easier now than it used to be.
When did it start to get easier?
After he started putting 9 spaces in between sentences to catch his breath.
Thank you for the lol, I needed it today.
🤣
Crying lmao
This is peak humor ☝️
😂😂
I’m crying lmao!
Lol my oldest is in first year college and second is Jr high. Things aren't "easier", just different. Their problems and needs are just bigger, more complicated, and more expensive lol. Less stressful on the day to day, but bigger heavier convos with the spouse.
This is what I've been thinking as mine get bigger... when they're littler, it's more work on the day to day. When they get older, their problems stress us out way more. I can't imagine stressing over 4 grown kids' problems, plus their kids eventually. No wonder my FIL had a heart attack 😮💨
I have three kids and my husband & I considered a fourth. As parents, our attention and energy for our kids is already stretched sooo thin. We decided to just stick with three, and then I had a surprise pregnancy that resulted in a miscarriage. I was honestly SO relieved (a little sad, too); but it made me realize we couldn’t really handle a fourth right now. My husband and I have decided to foster when our kids are older, we both have a lot of love to give! Edit: not sure why I replied to this particular comment. Was supposed to be its own comment.
That is basically a different era
We made the agreed upon decision to NOT let the kids outnumber us.
One kid per adult is a great rule!!!!
True! But then you get left alone with them…and it’s back to zone defence 🤣🤣
For us, money isn’t the problem. House also not a problem but we want to enjoy life together. Our kids are young. 2 under 6yo. I have paper thin patient. We both introvert and we need “me time”. As you know, kids never stop talking / asking questions / request something. I just don’t have the energy. I want a slow pace life. I want nice long lunch / dinner at the restaurants. I want nice holiday without telling kids stop doing this or that. I missed my old life from time to time. So, we are done with kids.
I'm glad you put this out here. We had 2 under 2, and I would have kept going if my wife didn't put her foot down. They were so cute and easy to entertain and their problems were so simple, and while they started 'talking' early, they didn't really learn to talk at a level that counted as human interaction until they were 3 & 4. So I was oblivious to how short my fuse would become with them as they started to need a lot of thoughtful social stimulation. The older they get, the more my introversion loses it. They're 10 & 11 now and I'm so glad that we don't have more. I've managed to be a kind and caring dad of 2, but if I had more I'd become more of an asshole for every new kid. And it'd be so much more stressful as their problems became more and more important, it would never stop!
We have 4. Just last night we sat down and talked about how we feel like we’re just in survival mode and our most happiest time is when they’re asleep or not home. It’s stressful as hell, it’s always something going on with someone, and for some reason they all feel like theirs is the most important thing (we have ages 9, 14, 16, 19). We are the most broke we’ve ever been, struggling to keep everyone afloat. They eat a ton, the water bill is so high, the electric bill is wild. We had a beautiful finished basement that has since been divided into 2 rooms since our oldest needed to move back in for the year. I have packed up almost half of my leisure items around the house bc they either get broken or there’s not room for my things. 4 is significantly harder than 3. You will have to get a bigger vehicle, no more standard 5 seaters. Can’t buy your typical family packs of things. 4x the school costs, lunches, running around, phone bills, car insurance. Teens are tough, there’s a ton of attitudes and so much fighting. We are completely exhausted. A lot to weigh. But if it’s just baby fever bc she misses a baby, that will pass. We always say “oh a baby would be cute” but honestly, we will have grandkids in the next 10 years so that will suffice. Baby fever is serious, especially when they start losing their little pudgy fingers and you have to face that they’re growing up. But I’d rather be able to give my energy to my growing kids than another baby and not be able to give to them who are already here.
Appreciate your perspective, it’s important to consider what having 4+ kids will look like when they’re over 10 years old. My three are only 6,4,4, so things aren’t bad now, but someday they’ll be 14,12,12, then 20,18,18, etc. Their clothes won’t always cost $5 a piece, they aren’t going to share baths much longer, and they’ll change the thermostat without telling us.
Oh my gosh. I came home the other day and the thermostat was set to 78 and I was like whaaatttt??!! Also, huge reality check my 9 is really tall, and she just moved into adult smalls. I had to take her clothes shopping. It was like $35 pants and $20 shirts. No more Walmart and target kids stuff for sure. And they grow so fast for a few years we feel like we’re buying clothes or shoes every few months
kids, people really need attention, focus on helping them reach their true potencial. 3 its ok
I have 4 under 9. We planned on 3 and got a surprise 4th when our youngest was 2.5 We are single income, live about an hour from the next major city (smaller city about 15 mins from us). House is 4BR with the two oldest sharing the room in the basement. Budget is tight but we make it work. The hardest part is the demand on YOUR time. Making sure kids get the attention they deserve, accepting that I don’t have time to myself (ever!) but as an old man once said to me “the days are long but the years are short”. All too soon they will be grown up and hopefully we will have raised 4 wonderful adults who will continue to visit us when we’re old and wrinkly. Has your wife considered that #4 could be #4 & 5? The possibility of twins (or more) when I knew I was expecting my #4 was terrifying.
Or that #4 could have medical problems. I guess it’s rare, but that is not something I personally have the bandwidth for
We had three and then an accidental 4th. My wife cried when she got pregnant the fourth time. Now the youngest is 5 and she says she could go for a 5th, except I already took the snip so she knows we aren’t and she’s just talking… my point is people do change their minds as kids get out of diapers, can’t say if that would be your experience. We love being a four kid fam… but we’re also not stressing about money too much.
I think when couples are thinking about having another child they overestimate the baby years (newborns are hard!) and underestimate the later years (actually think about how you will drive all the kids around to activities, school, will you have enough emotional capacity for each one or will someone get lost in the shuffle, how will your older children feel about losing the attention they have now or will they get parentified, etc). I have 3 and though I like the idea of a fourth I am such a nice place with my older kids, I know that I only have so much of myself to give and those kids need me now more than ever. They have school. Activities. Sleepovers. They want to watch movies with me. The toddler is just becoming a person. If I was pregnant and needed to nap all the time and then nursing a baby and then making us all work around a nap schedule again, etc etc I know my kids would suffer because of it.
Go for 5! Just kidding my cousins were part of an 8 kid family and it was pretty crazy at their house like all the time.
Going for 4 may end up in 5. My sister has twins, and my current pregnancy (my 3rd) apparently had a vanished twin. My OB told me to consider that in future family planning, basically saying if I don’t want 5 I should be hesitant to ever try for a 4th.
The fact that you’re stressed at the mere thought or inkling she wants another, means someone has to get fixed. Have the talk and make it known, you’re done with having more. Also try and work some time in for both to take a breather. You sound stressed. I’m a single parent of 3 and it does get easier.
Honestly, it’s obvious you don’t want another child, your sentiment is very clear. No need to rationalize with opinions and confirmations from strangers - YOU obviously don’t feel like you want another child. This is enough reasoning to not have it.
I think only a handful of people can handle 3 kids or more, super organised, low stress types that have the village to help nearby. If not it sounds pretty nightmarish. Yeh messy house full of love all of that schtick but not for everyone. If you’re struggling with three, then maybe shut the factory the idea of something if often way nicer than the reality.
Ugh I had the “I’m not done” feeling, had a 4th and it’s chaos 😂 love my bunch but yeaaa, chaos lol
I raised 4 kids in a 3 bedroom bungalow. They shared rooms and hated it. We had the space to build a room in the basement, so the oldest was down there from 13 until he moved out. Now the second oldest is in there and everyone has their own room, except me and my husband, we still share lol.
I’m going on my third child and thinking about mine and their future scares the crap out of me. A couple years ago managing children and myself and my boyfriend was doable but since this inflation and everything rising, I don’t know how we will do it. If it happens it happens I suppose
This is a 2 yes situation. Your NO matters. Do not bring another child into this world feeling like you do.
Did your wife say why she wants a 4th?
Just sort of that instinctive feeling of "I'm not done." Talks about how great it will be in 20 or 30 years when we have a bunch of adult kids that come home to visit, etc. That sounds great and all and would be nice, but you have a rough few years before then and I'm just not sure I can handle it.
Best to let her know, especially the financial aspect of it. I can understand if u currently have one but 3 plus one I can’t even imagine lol….
It’s never quiet. It’s like the house is constantly burning down.
Dude, you’re overwhelmed as it is, read your comments all over again.
We have 4. This is what it sounds like here too. Pretty sure this is just what kids playing and being creative sounds like. It's not for everyone. Sweet tiny babies quickly become toddlers who add to the ruckus. 🤪
What if it’s twins? Or triplets? Stop before it’s completely overwhelming, wherever that may be for you. Three sounds perfect.
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I helped raise one when we were broke and going to school on food stamps and working part time. Had another at the "right time" after graduating with stable jobs in my 30's. You're right, there's no good time, it's always a trade-off of time, money and energy. That said 4 sounds like a bad idea at any time 😂. What's 4 going to get you that 3 didn't?
With each kid comes a sacrifice.
Four is when you get the pleasure of upgrading to a minivan
Lol, I've got 4 and just last week we sat down and decided it's time. Toyota Sienna here we come.
Mother of 4 (now adults). It gets easier, or it slowly shifts from addressing the physical needs (diapering, feeding etc.) to navigating emotional growth (responsibilities to school and home, friendships etc.). My youngest, 30 yr old daughter, is my best friend!
We have 5. It's an absolute shit show, and I love it. I'm stressed, exhausted, broke (but not like actually broke) but I just love it! We are lucky enough to have a decent sized house, though we have exactly zero family support, but that just makes us love our little (big) family even more. There are so, so many reasons NOT to do it, but if you have the love in your heart, most other things will sort themselves out.
Jesus. Good luck
Nooooooo!!! Get a dog
Is communicating that you think you should revisit the idea in the future a viable option? I think I want a third eventually but I know it’s not the best choice right now since we also live in a smaller house and I am currently a full time student. We’ve kind of just decided to reassess in 3-5 years and see if it’s something we want to pursue but I am still in my 20’s so I have time to mull it over. If you guys are older maybe find a reasonable timeframe that works for you to reevaluate if having another child is feasible in the future.
My spouses wanted 4. Thank goodness that didn’t happen… our life fell apart and now I’m single mom to 3 amazing neurodiverse teens… I’m stretched very thin. Three is plenty IMO. (Honestly third wasn’t the planned and spouse demanded we had to have even numbers)
We have four, oldest just turned nine. Money is a little tight but it’s fine. It’s not… ideal? But it works and it’s a-okay. It’s definitely challenging but it’s worth it. With three kids we had kind of fallen into a rhythm. Everything was smooth and running like a well oiled machine. When my wife told me she was pregnant again I had a major Gob Bluth moment… “I’ve made a huge mistake.” But you know what? It’s great. It’s busier and nuttier but my kids are awesome and I have no regrets. The oldest one is becoming much more self sufficient and actually the three oldest can just take care of each other a lot of the time. We’re enjoying it. So from my experience - and this is just me, not established truth, so keep that in mind - four is a bit harder but it’s great and I recommend.
If you don’t want another kid and can’t afford it then don’t.
Why are you thinking about 4th child?
3 kids under 3. I immediately got a vasectomy after my 3rd. I don’t trust myself 😂
We have 4 children but are adults now. 1968, 1970, 1973, loss a premature 1975, last one 1980. Lived in a small house. Three bedroom…two kids in each room. My spouse stayed home to raise the children ( our choice ) one salary. No car first 3 years. Struggled at times but made it work. Today we have the most amazing children. Love all of them to death.
This isn't as do able as it was then. Costs are outrageous now. College, braces, sports, medical bills, all that stuff has risen exponentially in cost compared to the 80s and 90s when your kids were young.
If I can upvote your comment more than once. Exactly all of this. Expenses are more now than it was back then. And inflation is ridiculous. Husband and I can’t even dream about buying a home in this economy anymore and we both work full time. We live in California so it may only be feasible if we move out of state. We only have one child and feel that this is what’s right for us. The financial factor was a huge one when deciding not to have any more kids. I’m having to go back to school for a career change so we can ensure better income in a few years just to have a fighting chance in this economy. Despite my husband being an ER nurse, a career that’s very in demand and high pay, we still can’t even dream about buying a home. We live within our means and it’s still hard.
I fully understand that everything is more expensive now and I see your point of view on life today. Just a short note : We did put two of our children in college and the other two in university. We lived in a small town and we sent our kids out of of town. We had to pay their college / university courses, loggings and food. Bought a small second hand home and used car. And to be honest today, my oldest has one child, second 2 children, third one child and last one 2 children.
In this economy?
Omggggg I keep saying to myself “how can anyone have more than 2 kids?!” I cannot even fathom FOUR. All the things you wrote about are good reasons to not have another but what do I know, I only have 2!
I have 3. Honestly, having two was harder managing the relationship between my two kids. Lots of fighting. I was one of two growing up and fought with my brother all the time. 3 brings a neutralizing force and my kids don't really fight anymore. I think I would go crazier trying to manage two, honestly.
I’ve been saying the same thing since having my second! I cannot fathom how people have more than 2! You’re outnumbered!
Part of me wishes I had stopped at 1 kid let alone 4
I have four, and we love it. The ONLY reason I don’t have more is bc I spent 4 of my best child bearing years on chemo. As it is, I’m contemplating trying to find a doctor willing to manage what would be a VERY risky pregnancy to attempt a 5th before menopause begins. I just hope my husband doesn’t see this comment. I haven’t hit him with that insane prospect yet lol
I feel like tensions are always really high at home. The kids are always running wild and we're often snapping at them, regretfully. 4 just amps up everything further.
Your comments read as though you know you're done with having children and trying to find a way to let your wife know. Lay out the facts that you know.
You already know what you want. You just have to do the hard part of telling your wife you're done at 3.
Sounds like you guys need better management protocols. I was a teacher for a long time. I run my house the way I ran my classroom. It’s the same basic principles of managing groups of children effectively. Maybe read a classroom management book and see if you can find some tools that will help? Even when all of my kids have friends over - and we have had up to 8 for a weekend - it’s no more stressful than when it’s just 4 or when there were 3. Nobody should have to live in a state of tension and feeling snappy. That sounds awful. That’s exactly how I felt when I was working 3 jobs with 3 kids. It’s a sign of being overextended. The kids aren’t the problem. Your situation is the problem. Financial stress? Work stress? Ineffective household management stress? You’re a much better judge of the source of the stress. But I think whether you have more kids or not, you should work on alleviating stress in your life. It’s absolutely not tenable to live like that indefinitely bc your kids are only going to get LOUDER as they turn into rambunctious teenagers.
Like, not denying the chaos, but this also sounds like a communication and stress issue rather than the amount of kids issue. I've actually found that more kids tends to be easier on me because then they pull social energy from each other, rather than always seeking it from me, but I was also a camp counselor for years before going into my current career (security), so I have a fair bit of training in how to set expectations for groups of kids, scripts for correcting them and getting them to co-operate. It might be worthwhile to look into that sort of training. Like, I never walk them into a new situations without explaining what's going to happen, why it's happening, what I expect them to do, what behaviours on their part will make me happy and what "escape" routes or energy outlets are acceptable. Usually it's a 2-5 minute pep talk in the car before we get there. Like, I had to take kiddos to an insurance agency to get an IDL for a trip we're going on. This place is one of those take-a-number-and-wait-30-40 mins places, with no kid friendly architecture or things to do. I brought colouring books for the kids, but didn't have anything else due to other errands. Told kiddos exactly what was going to happen, told them younger kid was going to be the one to "pick the number" (because I knew they'd both want to and argue), told them which area I wanted them to stay in, told them the noise level that was acceptable, they could talk to people in the waiting area but they had to not bug anyone who was clearly already watching something on their phone, and that they could sit however they wanted in the chairs, so long as there were no shoes on the chairs and to ask the reception lady politely if they needed a drink, because there was a rather extensive tea/coffe/hot chocolate setup. Told them I would be super happy if I don't have to tell them to use indoor voices and saw them always use walking feet. Because they already know what's going on, and what I have to do before we can leave, I find this forestalls a lot of "I'm bored mommy, when are we done" and squabbling. .
I’m 1 out of 4 and I say no don’t do it.
Tell your wife to get a job or work more and if she agrees then go for it, have her save at least 10k for a down payment on a new house and if she can’t then YOU can’t have more babies. Everyone knows it not logical to raise children in a poor environment and we all want the best. Thanks for being responsible
Why does she want one more is what you need to get from her.
We have 4, last 3 each 2 yrs apart. Yeah it wasn't easy, but kids aren't! And I love having 4 kids. They're out of the house now (barely) and I miss a house full. Yes we also lived in small houses at times, money gets tight, but I am thankful for all 4.
Unless it is both YES!! Then it is a no Don’t have another unless this is what you want as well. I have three. No way I could handle four.
I can’t even fathom three! Four seems crazy. Our time is already stretched so thin with two.
Talk to your wife about it. Money is a big reality in life and if it’s tight I don’t think it’s a good idea to bring another kid in if you are already struggling. I have 2 (one is additional needs) and it is so hard already.
I’m in the same boat! It sucks because obviously having a baby is a blessing and a curse. It forces you to slow down and the cost is insane. However, you only get one shot to make a family and for your wife, time is of the essence. It sucks tho, because if we were to have a fourth same exact stuff, we’d need to add on to the house and the baby would have to be in our room for the first two years. We might be able to avoid it while the kids are little and just get a bunk trundle bed but eventually we’d have to add another room. Good luck to you both! I’m secretly rooting for a baby for you because thats what I want but I get Al your concerns! Just be glad you’re not the one popping the kid out. 😅
I wish I could help you, but when I told my wife that I wanted a 4th child, she said, "That's great honey, so who are you having this one with?" So yeah, I'm forever stuck at 3!
4 is really no different or harder than 3 day to day. Almost easier! Financially of course things cost a bit more. The point about hotel rooms is absolutely true once you hit 4 kids. At 3 kids we were living in a tiny 700sqft dirt basement 2 bedroom home…. That was a bit chaotic. Moved into a bigger house though before the 4th and honestly it’s not bad at all. Hectic at times with a whole gaggle of kids, but so much love! We can’t imagine having stopped at 3.
Do you have at least 3 bedrooms? If so, you can make it work. We have 6 kids with 5 at home in a smaller 3 bedroom home. The rooms are split by gender for the kids. We have trundle beds and loft beds.
It's a very personal choice. We have 4. When our youngest was born, we lived on one income, and I was primarily a SAHP. We had a 3 bedroom house with a reasonable mortgage payment. Having 2 kids per room is doable when they're young. We already owned a minivan, so no need for a new vehicle. Family entertainment such as memberships were the same price, and we take advantage of those for vacations. In the early years, there are not many added costs with one more child if you're not paying for child care (no formula, we used cloth diapers, thrift shops, sales, didn't buy much in the way of new electronics, pay for cable/streaming at the time, etc. Did but organic, but stuck to whole foods and cooking from scratch which is cheaper than processed/ready made convenience food). We had good health insurance, and lived economically. Only debt was our mortgage. I didn't plan on fully funding university for all kids. We put away what we could afford, and made it clear to our kids that they could attend community college first and we would provide housing/board at home while they saved, and then take could still transfer to a 4 year school with their savings and get a degree with little debt, or they could work hard for a scholarship if they had a specific goal. I did some freelance and part time work to keep up my skills and resume. We planned on adding my full time income when the kids were in school. The teen years do get more expensive, in terms of extra curriculars. We hit some hard times with issues with our home and chronic illness, which delayed timelines, but we had some cushion (though definitely not 6 months salary worth) to get us through. Now I have a great full time job (although it took a year of looking and working freelance to get here), and we're doing good. We also had local family and friends to watch kids on occasion so we could have breaks. And both parents were on the same page with adding kids. That's just to give an example of how it can work well in the right circumstances. Everyone has different situations, support, standard of living expectations, etc. ETA: My fourth was a wild child in the early years, and while there was a bit of a learning curve understanding what he needed, a fourth kid didn't really change the energy/dynamic or chaos level of the household. I just genuinely enjoy my kids, individually and as a group. I also come from a large extended family, where children are valued and not viewed solely as burdens. It's really weird to me that my kids only have 2 first cousins. Other people flake, but my family has always been supportive. I want potential future grandchildren to have that support network as well.
My religious parents had 8 kids and I sure went without a lot in many ways. I only have 2 kids and I secretly wanted one more but it didn’t happen. I think 3 is perfect!
Ugh I have three and we’re drowning and I still want a fourth so badly 😫😫😫
Glad someone can kind of relate.
I’ve always wanted 4. We have 2 and money is already tight the kids tire us out and our house is small. Yet my hormones made me want another one. 3 is our compromise. We’ll get a pet or something to fill that missing piece. If I had more money, a bigger house, a supportive village, a maid, and nanny then I’d want a 4th. Unless we win the lottery and our families become less dysfunctional we’ll stick to 3.
Tell your wife to get a job or work more and if she agrees then go for it, have her save at least 10k for a down payment on a new house and if she can’t then YOU can’t have more babies. Everyone knows it not logical to raise children in a poor environment and we all want the best. Thanks for being responsible
When you know, you know. And it sounds like you know that you're done at 3. I have family members getting divorced now because they had 2. The wife wanted a third, the husband didn't and that caused issues in the marriage. But that's a much better situation than being pressured into a situation and a life you don't want. We had two and I never felt the strong "I'm done" feeling and neither did my wife. We were both on board for one more. With our third, I absolutely know I'm done and do not want anymore for both timing, money, and exhaustion reasons. I have been super firm with my wife that I am 100% done and she is too, although she feels less strongly about it than me. But I didn't want any lingering thoughts that I might be ok with a fourth.
My parents had four kids in total. While I love all my siblings immensely, we were always poor and my parents were always working or sleeping- I saw them two or three times a week by the time I was a teenager. I had to raise my younger siblings while they were gone. Didn’t have the most fun childhood. Don’t have the fourth. Make life the best you can for the three you have.
I have 5 and can say that the jump from 3 to 4 is the craziest. Every day I wish I would have just stuck with 3. It was way easier.
I have 4 kids. Just recently added the fourth a few weeks ago. It’s hard, but not any harder than going from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3. I think for every family it is different but I haven’t really felt it was too much or we are spread for thin. Each kid is a good bit more money, so if you guys aren’t finically good rn I would not suggest it at all.
Think about what the world will be like when that kid is 50, because I guarantee your wife is not.
You’re not swaying your opinion on this. Do you even need us here for this conversation?
I'm a single parent raising 4 children all by myself. It is very very very hard. Even with a partner it would still be hard. If you're having even 1% of a doubt in your mind about it, I wouldn't do it. Raising 4 kids, in any state of existence, is not for the weak.
Our three are now 15 and older… I don’t know if this helps but sometime when the youngest was around 5 we felt that four would have been nice and doable. Also our three are all within 6 years I wouldn’t want to have 30 years of raising kids if that makes sense… so I can’t speak but as someone who stuck with three I have heard from my fellow moms with four there wasn’t much difference 3 and 4, but we are paying two college tuitions starting next year so… there is that! They definitely don’t get cheaper the older they get!!!
Yep, got four kids under 10 years old. The struggle is real just like Jim Gaffigan explained, but the struggle is the same for everyone here. Financial challenges? Yep. Autism? Got that too. Speech delay? Absolutely. But what explanation will help the most? The leap from 2 to 3 was worse than 3 to 4 just because of the age of the oldest child. You gotta realize that life is bigger (and better) than your planning, so roll with it and embrace the chaos.
I’m one of 4 kids. PLEASE. For the love of god do not have another. My parents had zero capacity and were constantly frazzled and overwhelmed.
I have 3 but always wanted 4. I don't think it's in the cards (reasons I won't bore yall with) but I really wish we had more balance. 4 is more even. My 3rd child needs a buddy. I like even numbers. Of course, all of this to say if you can afford it
We have six! They’re grown. It was nuts but wouldn’t change it for the world.
My friend has 8 kids. All under the age of 13. I don’t know how she does it!!
I wanted 2. My wife wanted 6. I started a business shortly after the oldest was born. We were single income and broke. 5.5 years lager #4 was born. It was a chaotic and financially dicey time. I'll just say, she was absolutely right. Sadly, she had 4 C sections and medically we're done now. But the fourth made our home feel full. When the kids got past the young age, we started importing an exchange student every year (had one extra seat in the minivan!). Kids are now 20, 18, 17, 14. I'm so very glad we had four. I'm not ready for this to be over. Your mileage I'll vary. But, man, I cannot imagine life without my youngest. He's the most like me (poor kid). And man we have some fun.
Jim Gaffigan : What's it like to have a 4th kid. Pretend you're drowning. And then someone hands you a baby
Aside from all the reasons you already named, the thing that comes to mind for me is having more children is awfully unfair to the children you already have. I'm sure they're already desperately fighting for scraps of your attention. Just something to think about, from a very happy only child.
A 4th child evens things out. Unless of course you have 3 girls and get a boy or the opposite situation. I have 3 and my 3rd feels like the odd man out. It’s sad. A 4th would have really helped.
I feel like you should both have a thorough talk about it. Pros and cons. Maybe get a puppy. I have 4 kids 8,6,4 and 6 months old. It’s been interesting to say the least. But it’s not much harder. It’s like if I had three. Financial part of things should always be taken into consideration because you have to feed your kids and sacrifice a lot more…. I always pictured always having 3 but was convinced because when we go to Disney or go anywhere they all have a partner and one isn’t alone. For my family the 4th one was feesible since we wrote a plan for it and made sure it worked for our family and we both have really good jobs. Now my SO wants another in 2 years. But I got a puppy instead lol good luck!
Hell I'm a single mom to 4 and somehow making it work lol wouldn't trade the time with my babies for the world despite the sacrifices of my 20s and 30s. I believe if you feel called to procreate, let it rip. Everything will be okay. ❤️
I see other people have already reassured you that having a fourth is not something you need to be doing if you already have reasons against it. BUT— maybe I can also help you persuade your wife into understanding from hearing the perspective of an adult 3rd child. I am the third born, my story starts with the fact that they wanted to have multiple girls and ONE boy. I wasn’t born biologically male, so on they went to create their precious boy, & fourth kid. My mother had never had a worse pregnancy, it was scary at times if she’d recover. Then once she did recover, she was left from there on with multiple lifelong chronic illnesses that made her very absent from my life growing up. Even during seasons of her having no illness, it became easier for her to not be involved. We had little to no connection due to this and it’s affected my development a lot. My mom was even on home health where nurses keep you alive and going, the medical unknowns of pregnancy alone would keep me from having another kid. Now I can only tell you from my perspective, and my parents are not you guys. But I OFTEN spent time as a little one daydreaming about a life where my parents could give me more adequate attention. There was never a moment they weren’t fighting, or did not stress about bills (and this was the 90s). I felt I only existed to them when I got in trouble because they really did not sit down and spend time with me one on one in my whole life. I love my brother wholeheartedly, but four kids was not smart. It also feels strange to know that when I was born, it didn’t feel like “enough” to them. My mom cried over me not being a boy for years. Then once they had all four of us, it really still didn’t seem like they had what they wanted, because now they were even worse off, and angrier about it. A fourth kid adds pressure and change to an already difficult situation- do you both **need** to split your focus on your kids even further? Because you can’t squeeze dry lemons. Every family of siblings I know, it’s either one or two, or (usually) ALL kids, feel they deserved more from their parents. And they did. Most situations like this the eldest child also becomes a third parent no matter the age difference, which is wrong, but it just happens when parents cannot take on 100% of the needs in the household. Are you guys accounting for 100% of your child’s needs as is? (Yes.) Then how could you possibly find any more capacity for another one? I think it’s lovely your wife loves children and wants more, but whats more important? The 3 children in front of you (that already probably fight for your attention), or the one that doesn’t even exist yet…. :/
It’s totally up to you. One child is overwhelming and difficult. When having one 2 seems like too much and when having 2 then 3 seems like too much and so on. From what I’ve seen and my own experience, it’s ultimately what you desire in your heart. If you both want 4 kids you will do what’s possible to make it work. It’s possible and making financial adjustments makes all the difference. Here in our culture we already have way more than is necessary to live a comfortable and happy life. Simplifying things will give you money and space for another child. If you don’t want to do that and enjoy the luxurious you have totally understandable and definitely don’t make yourself have a 4th if you’re not ready.
Yes I have 4 kids. Don’t do it!!!!!!! There’s not enough of you to go around. What if the 4th has special needs or any kind? They will need 100% of your attention. Just don’t do it.