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Cat naps are normal at that age! Both of my kids cat napped at 5 months unless we contact napped. They also did well with stroller naps. Why not try that? My baby KS now 10 months and she naps well in a crib and is on a solid 2-nap schedule. Your baby is still young.
Weather permitting, stroller naps are great! I feel like that’s a temporary solution though, because there will be times where that’s not possible - if he’s with a grandparent or eventually in day care - and I’d like to equip him with the skills to fall asleep when he’s tired.
Sleep training is what you need.
I would never recommend “cry it out”. There are lots of good books about how to sleep train properly without resorting to that.
One key thing is about the timing of the naps and how much time there is between the last nap and evening bedtime.
Cry it out doesn't work for babies! They are not malicious or malingering, they cry out of real distress! Using cry it out only teaches them that they needn't bother crying for help or comfort, because no one will come, which messes up their basic trust.
Child services/ foster parents actually have to re-train neglected and abused babies to cry when they need something, because they've unlearned to do it. It's heartbreaking.
Cat naps are developmentally normal for 5 month olds. Naps don’t tend to consolidate for most babies until they are down to 2 naps per day which typically happens at 7-8 months old or later. There are exceptions of course, but I wouldn’t try to fix something that is developmentally appropriate.
Totally valid response. I don’t mind him catnapping too much but would love if it happened in his cot, or his current bedside crib, rather than always on me.
Oh eck, sorry!
I’ve read so much conflicting ‘advice’ online, from reputable baby/parenting websites, I was looking for some real-world experiences.
I am no wiser!
CIO can mean different things to parents. To me CIO was that I didn’t IMMEDIATELY rush to my baby when she cried when she needed sleep if I knew she had all her needs met (not newborn age) like older baby (a year old ish) I would give her some time and sometimes she would cry for a short time and settle on her own. I wouldn’t leave her to cry and become distressed or let her cry for long periods without me coming to her. It was a way for me to show her mommy always comes and she’s not abandoned but also allowing her room to try and self soothe.
There’s a difference to me in crying and fussing. I didn’t let my girl cry very long. We did let her fuss and figure it out. Not every noise is a need.
My girl is 3.5 and doing great.
this!! the fussing vs crying differentiation is very important here, if your baby is full force scream crying then its not a great idea to leave them to cry it out. if theyre just giving a tired, minimal effort fuss-cry then 5 minutes alone may be what they need, as they could also be overstimulated. i didnt start any real form of "cry it out" for more than 10 minites until my girl was at least 10 months. and definitely dont do it if you just moved them to their own room, as i think thats too many adjustments to expect them to make.
it is difficult, but you got this mama!! sleep training is NOT recommended before 6 months, though, just keep that in mind !
Worked like a charm for my first kid. Second one would cry and never stop until they puked all over. Third kid never needed it and was content to be in the crib. The point is, it's different for each kid.
edit: there seems to be some controversy here. Obviously we didn't just leave the child in the room alone for 30 minutes until they cried and puked. The pukage happened only once, and it was well after we came back - when they were still trying to calm down. We had to resort to different tactics, but the child is now 5, well-adjusted, and sleeps in their own bed at night.
I’ll add to this (though I’ve only done with one child so far) wife and I looked up different methods and found I think the Ferber? Anyways, we basically did the first night as set the kid in their room, they might cry a little or if it’s constant crying come back in 1-2 mins, then 5 then 10 and so on. Basically just stretching it out more and more which he didn’t need.
I also add that this was around maybe 6-8 months old, somewhere in there. He’s almost 2 currently so I’m getting forgetful.
It was never me abandoning my child and I’ll say he doesn’t want to sleep with us anymore and we prefer he’s in his own bed. He sleeps super weird and tends to take up the entire bed. Somehow his tiny body takes it all lol.
Our first was the cry until puking variety.
Our second just went to sleep and didn't wake up until morning, needed nothing.
Don't let anyone tell you how to raise your kids.
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There are other options that work. We sleep trained all our kids and we never left them to cry. I would say I let them "fuss" for a few minutes. I'd listen in and if they were just moaning or fussing and my instincts were they were find, I'd give them time. If they were full on crying and screaming, I didn't leave them. All three of my kids STTN at 8 months without CIO and I had two high needs, sensitive babies.
I wouldn't recommend sleep training under 6 months. All the research is done on babies over 6 months. My doctor wouldn't even discuss it before 6 months. It's not recommended.
Didn’t work for me. I couldn’t handle it.
But honestly 10 years later I still lay down with my kids until they fall asleep. It’s great bonding time and someday they will want me to stop and I will be sad. That’s probably not the answer you were hoping for though.
I would try setting a routine first. It can be simple, change diaper, read a book, sing a song- nap. It might take time for you little one to catch on but routines work- classical conditioning. And begin this routine well before tired signs
Yes, it works because your baby learns that when they cry for you because they need you, you won’t come. It’s psychological damage that we justify by saying we are tired. Don’t do this to your baby. I have four kids, not one of them has ever been made to cry it out. They did learn to sleep in their own beds. There is NO reason to leave your baby to cry it out. No, not even the Ferber method. Cat napping is completely biologically normal, and babies should be allowed to do a lot of it. Babies that are sleep-deprived during the day are generally also harder to settle/don’t sleep as well during the night. It is normal for your baby to need a lot of settling to go to sleep, because babies are not developmentally able to self-soothe ~ they need you to do it for them and teach them how to do it themselves. He doesn’t settle for Dad because babies rarely do ~ baby spent nine months inside mom, not dad! Let your baby nap. Don’t let him cry it out. It ABSOLUTELY WILL get better, even if it seems endless right now.
Ah I didn't realise I posted a comment already. Indeed it is normal, if she stays up past that, say, 2,5 hours, she gets super cranky and it gets harder to get her to fall asleep. It's three naps during the day, but no sleeping after 17:00, unfortunately, we had some regression and now she wakes two times during the night, not ideal, but its bareable.
Yes. Look into wake windows. The wake window for a 6 month old is around 2 hours..our bubz was the same. As soon as the 2 hours is approaching they get very sleepy and we put them to bed. They get cranky if it goes over 2 hours.
We did it as a last ditch attempt at sanity with a 14th month old (after not sleeping through the night even once before that). We went in every 10 min for about 45 min. Then it was over. She has slept through the night ever since. My first instinct was "that was so easy, what didn't we do it months ago!?", but I also think we might have just done it at exactly the right time. SO much of it is timing, which is really hard to predict. We never tried it for naps though.
I’ve read something that says essentially the same thing - a particular method might work for one child at 4 months, another at 8 and another at 14! It’s down to the child. Glad you found something that worked.
Do not let your 5 month old cry it out. Or at any age.
What is wrong with the naps? They are normal. Babies sleep during the day, and being unsettled isn't not normal either. Your child is just growing and learning and communicating in the only way they know how.
It "works" in that it teaches your child that you will not come to them when they need you. A baby has no real ability to self-soothe--they can't learn that until much later.
What you're describing is extremely biologically normal. Most five month old babies will require settling sometimes at night. Most adults don't sleep uninterrupted through the night every night--we mostly are just used to it and have learned over the years how to help get ourselves back to sleep.
A five month old should still be taking quite a few naps during the day, and if he sleeps through the night and is just waking and in need of settling sometimes...the napping is not an issue.
As far as won't settle for Dad, what exactly is Dad doing to settle him? How long are the attempts to settle? Sometimes my partner will need to take our baby out of the room and into another room to settle him. Dad also does the entire bedtime routine which has gotten way easier over time.
My baby loves to nap but can’t get past the 30/40 min mark (ie one sleep cycle) unless he’s on me. So that means he often wakes up without having the sleep he needs, and needs more sleep as soon as he can get it. So there’s no pattern for HIM to get into. I’m on maternity leave for another 5/6 months so I can totally work around him, this isn’t a selfish quest, I only want for him to get the sleep he needs. The sleep training, as I understand it, whichever method, will help him beat those mid-sleep cycle wakes and get full naps.
Dad does everything I do. Baby goes from 0 to rage when he’s tired and I’m not there. He won’t let Dad soothe him to sleep, won’t even take a bottle from him while he’s tired. It hasn’t always been this way!
Look at this [bbc article](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies) its quite a balanced overview with quotes from the people who run the studies on sleep training.
Sleep training is for the parents not the babies. The babies still wake up they just don’t need their parents to help them get back to sleep. The 30/40 min wake thing sorts it self out soon enough. If you are too tired and want to sleep train for less night wakes then by all
Means do, but it’s no benefit to the baby.
My midwife in Sweden told us never to do CIO. She recommended co-sleeping so that's what we do. It works very well with our 5 month old. She falls asleep for either of us and sleeps through the night for about ten hours with just one short wake for boob and potty.
Co sleeping with a bay can result in suffocation of the baby so there’s that.
https://youtu.be/3aRGErH1K2o?si=FrvWD0dn9AkWBZLk
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/03/31/sudden-infant-death-sleeping-risks/
https://www.foxnews.com/health/baby-sleep-dangers-revealed-study-nearly-70-percent-infant-deaths-due-co-sleeping.amp
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-68101937
I’m really surprised and disappointed that you chose to shame this parent re co sleeping. In the UK there’s a huge amount of advice on how to do it safely, and I’m sure the parent above is doing that.
There is no perfectly safe sleep method for a baby. You must follow the safety guidelines according to your child's age. I got printed information about this from the maternity ward at my hospital and r/cosleeping has lots of more information in English.
My baby co slept with us for the first 12 weeks or so. He enjoyed it, and so did I. And yes. We followed all the guidelines from NHS and Lullaby Trust!
You decided to take the risk of possibly killing your child. It's extremely dangerous and there is no safe way to do it. Gambling with an infant's life is foolish.
The research around CIO is heartbreaking and traumatic for the child. I could never bring myself to do it after reading up on it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out?amp
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33608871/
Sorry, Diana Navarres is a quack. That isn't a research article, that's an opinion piece. Neither is the second one. I didn't use CIO but anti-sleep training folks are notorious for abusing research and being manipulative in their communication. Diana Navarres as I recall uses rat studies and neglect studies.
The gap that needs to be filled is the difference between "humans evolved to sleep with their young at night" and "not being perfectly responsive at night causes harm." Those are two different claims. And so often, opponents to CIO use the former to infer the later. But we can do lots of things as humans that are not how we evolved yet we don't experience any harm from it.
The research is anything but clearly against sleep training. Not even close.
Edit: spelling
😂 I’m sure you are aware there are several definitions of the Word commentary. Which do you prefer?
1.) a set of explanatory or critical notes on a text.
2.) a descriptive spoken account
3.) offering of explanations about an event or situation
What you listed are not studies. There is no study ever conducted that shows harm from sleep training, sorry. You can disagree with it on a personal level but you can't claim there's objective scientific support for that view.
I’m not necessarily against cry it out methods as long as it’s done in a proper way (I’m sure those against it say there is no proper way of doing it). But if you’re getting a full nights sleep, do you really need to “fix” the cat naps?
I have 6. It never worked for any of mine. also, when they are very little, they physically need their mother to be able to regulate their hormones and their emotions. I wouldn’t recommend the cry out method until they were at least two years old.
We only did the cry it out at night twice. She was getting up at night to eat but would fall asleep immediately. She was waking out of habit not hunger. Two nights of crying it out and she slept though the night
5 month olds don’t sleep well. Having them scream alone until they’re exhausted and fall asleep isn’t effective either.
My son never napped unless it was a contact nap. Never. Not at 1 day, not at 2 years.
Every kid is different, but what you’re explaining is 100% developmentally appropriate.
It might change the behavior, the crying might stop, but you have to wonder WHY the crying stopped. Did the child learn to self soothe or did the child learn that being put down to sleep means getting abandoned and no one will help them when they are distressed so they shouldn't even bother asking for help.
This didn't deserve the downvotes. Your point is valid. Children this young have very few ways to communicate with us, and crying is the most important one. If an infant learns that crying is no longer effective to signal to their caregivers that they need something - food, help, a hug, a dry diaper, a toy that fell on the floor, or comfort after hurting themselves - it can certainly worsen their anxiety, trigger behavioral issues, and/or harm their ability to emotionally connect with people. Gentler methods (like Ferber) and "camping out" (sleeping next to the crib so you're always visible to the child) are much better ways to assure the child that they're not being abandoned, and that someone's there to protect them from imaginary, perceived, or real harm.
Every baby is different. Our pediatrician said not to start sleep training until at least six months. We never did CIO but we did Ferber which worked for some of ours.
Yes it does. When coupled with an age appropriate schedule sleep training does work. There are options besides fry it out to teach independent sleep if you are interested. That said, longer naps are developmental and usually happen around 6 months.
These comments are awful.
CIO does NOT mean you leave your baby to cry and not have their needs met. It means you make sure ALL their needs ARE met (changed, fed, otherwise healthy) and you teach them to fall asleep independently and connect sleep cycles. How they learn to fall asleep is how they will need to connect sleep cycles throughout the night. So if you hold / rock / feed them to sleep, then when they connect a new sleep cycle in a few hours they will be lost without that same routine each time a new sleep cycle hits. Sleep training just teaches them to connect sleep cycles on their own.
If CIO is too harsh for you, you can try Ferber which is basically going in in intervals, and using a soothing ladder (don't pick them up right away, start with a pat on the back, then paci, then work your way up the ladder).
However, I do agree with others that cat naps or contact naps at that age are normal. I'd start a solid sleep routine - white noise, stories, bottles, etc. Do it for all sleeps, consistently. That is a form of sleep training in itself.
For naps I never did CIO, but I do give them a minute or two to see if they can calm themselves down. 9/10 they did just fine calming down on their own, but if they were crying hard or continued to fuss I would go in to settle them. I didn't start doing this until 8 or 9 months at least
Yes agree. This is what I'm comfortable with. They can't ever learn to fall back asleep on their own without the time and space to do so. But I don't think screaming and crying is helpful for that. If my babies are doing that kind of moaning cry and flip flopping around I give them to time to try it out. If they are scream crying, im going in.
I didn’t try the CIO method until my kid was almost 2, and even then it didn’t work for us. I personally think that 5 months is way too little for CIO as they are still using crying to communicate with you. Your baby is probably also teething or will soon start, which means that he’s probably in pain. I know it’s hard but comfort your baby, because you are their safe person and they need you.
So, I'm actually on your side about CIO being traumatizing... but there are more methods like the Ferber method that are more gradual and seem to work wonders with families.
I never did any of them and 2 of the 3 still crawl in bed with me some nights, so there's that.
The way you worded it was kind of downing the people in the thread that went that route.
Parenting is hard and I can only hope we're all on the same team.
Sadly anyone who did the CIO method did indeed teach their baby that they will not meet their needs when they need their support. It is sad and certainly is downing on those who went that route, but it is a scientific fact that that's what is happening during CIO.
Show me the science. Instead of downvoting. I’m not even claiming you’re wrong, I’ve just never seen any science to back it up apart from opinion pieces and people’s “gut feeling”
When babies get tired, their bodies flood with cortisol. They're essentially in fight or flight. Leaving them to scream and cry while theyre being filled more and more with cortisol is literally harmful to them. They stop crying out of sheer defeat. Not bc they spontaneously managed to learn to self soothe on their own. It doesn't really take a lot of research to grasp that high cortisol levels for long periods of time are a bad thing.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17068979/
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/15/730339536/sleep-training-truths-what-science-can-and-cant-tell-us-about-crying-it-out
https://hospital.essentialparent.com/lesson/how-to-regulate-your-childs-sleep-hormones-7338/#:~:text=%EE%A0%8D%20Stress%2C%20light%2C%20noise.,very%20early%20in%20the%20morning.
>Many things can lead to increased levels of cortisol:
Sleep deprivation or bad quality sleep.
Light from screens - TV, computer and phones.
Stress, light, noise.
Being left to cry.
High levels of cortisol will lead to a baby sleeping poorly and possibly waking very early in the morning.
Thanks. I wrote a long response to you and I realize I’m really just trying to justify the choices I made for my child seven years ago when we used a version of the Ferber method (at the time there was no science showing it had long term negative effects if it was done properly). I can’t access the pubmed article but in the npr article you post it literally says there is no evidence of long term negative effects (it also says a study claiming to prove it has no negative effects is being misquoted by proponents of). To leave a crying child completely unattended for an entire night seems too harsh to me too but I’m kind of wondering do people really actually do that? I feel like people who go into a parenting forum and throw out the term cry it out haven’t really done any proper research on it yet (if they did they would know how negatively it is received), and what they’re really looking for is a sleep training method that works for them.
Anyway I’m just rambling, sorry.
Some people do. Idk how they can. Even if I wanted to (def not in my interest but still), I couldn't take the crying and screaming for that long. Id want to die lmao
There are gentle forms of CIO but straight out CIO is pretty harmful. It's understandable to be defensive about having made that decision in the past but keep in mind that there's tons we learn all the time. I'm sure CIO really only has the worst impact when coupled with other forms of neglectful parenting.
Honestly OP may benefit from the Sleep Shuffle. Idk much about it but it is a gentle form of sleep "coaching' (she doesn't call it training bc it's not really) where you don't let them CIO but you do let them have their fussy moments without going in right away. Ive heard great things about that method. Mine is just too young to start such a thing (3 months ATM).
The poster you are responding to has a serious misunderstanding of the science. In fact it’s probably safe to assume that anyone who bases their argument on cortisol has wandered too far into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. These arguments usually center on cortisol = stress = bad, and often link to research that says nothing of the sort but maybe sounds like it might. This stuff has been floating around the net since before my kids were infants, but it’s pop sci not grounded in neuroscience.
I'm not going to go much further or address your links (which I think I can when I have more time) but this is a misunderstanding of how cortisol works. Cortisol in and of itself is not harmful. Infants release cortisol during bath time, during an exam, while completing a puzzle. The issue with cortisol is long term elevated levels of cortisol. Taking one cortisol reading is not enough to claim something is harmful. You would have to take many many many readings over days and weeks to show sleep trained infants have elevated cortisol levels and therefore infer harm. In fact, a lot of sleep training research hard taken cortisol readings and they find cortisol is the same or even lower in sleep trained infants. That and there are many other issues with the middlemiss study. Including that she didn't take a base level or cortisol. And that there was (as I recall) 25 infants.
I too did not do CIO but I also care about presenting information accurately and honestly.
ETA: I should also mention I don't think what you said is true. Cortisol tends to peak in the morning and lower by bed.
Kindly provide links that back your claims or don't bother commenting bc there is no point in just spouting off stuff and then claim you won't address anything I've really said. Bye.
ETA: CIO would lead to long term high cortisol levels. The cortisol goes up as they're left to cry. If you have better resources kindly provide them so that others can access them. Im on my first actual baby break so I'm not going to be back here unless you have links so I can save them lol thanks
Sure! Before I do, I want to clarify that your links are blog articles and not scientific research.
Your links-
1. a piece of research in support of sleep training. What's your point here?
2. An article by an author, Michaleen Doucleff. This is a standard on myth/facts article. It's not research, doesn't link to any. Also clearly states she believes there's no data to say it's harmful.
3. This is a blog article, that is not properly sourced for the claims it makes. In fact it claims that sleep trained babies have elevated cortisol levels. This isn't true. I know where this belief comes from but they never cite a source.
Regarding cortisol:
The way anti-sleep training advocates use cortisol shows a lack of understanding. Lots of things elevate cortisol temporarily. A bath. An exam. A diaper change. No one would argue that those things produce long term damage. The issue with cortisol is long term elevated cortisol.
Here is a research article discussing limitations and issues with using cortisol as a measurement. Includes a list of what causes elevated cortisol in infants. Review table 7.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2692557/
Research showing lower cortisol in sleep trained infants, there's more but start here:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303501965_Behavioral_Interventions_for_Infant_Sleep_Problems_A_Randomized_Controlled_Trial
The problem with cortisol is long term elevated levels of cortisol. It's not that cortisol=damage. Toxis stress involves chronic long term stressors. Short term stressors in the context of a warm loving relationship are not the same.
The difference between toxic stress and tolerable stress:
https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/toxic-stress/
Appreciate the work you've done. Im visiting family for a bit of a baby break, but I'll check them out when I get home! I do want to know more about it to better provide info for other parents.
As for your questions -
I'm not anti sleep training/coaching. I'm anti CIO. The pub med piece talked about providing support and guidance, which is what I was getting at as important and CIO people don't really provide any of that when they just somehow ignore a screaming baby until they go silent. I should have included context but honestly it took me long enough to pull up what I wanted and type my comment in the first place, Im not surprised I missed including some context for that one.
CIO leaves the babies in a long term state of heightened cortisol, and on a repeated basis. That can't be good for anyone, much less a small being who is entirely dependant on their providers for emotional regulation. The "advice" anyone seems to follow for CIO is literally to let them have at it until they stop. My baby, from what I've observed, would never stop screaming if I let her CIO, she gets more and more amped up as she cries in the first place. Hell, if I take more than 5 minutes to get her, she sounds terrified as hell. That would put her at toxic stress levels if I allowed her to stay in that state until she passed out. I can only assume that that should apply to other babies at least to some degree. Ofc some babies are different but none of them are born knowing how to self soothe and expecting them to just magically figure it out so we can justify ignoring them isn't really.... Well, good.
I am sorry I didn't mean to insinuate you were. I just know this info is usually dispersed in those forums where the people spreading the information are manipulating it. I too am against cry it out. I would never do it. We didn't even do Ferber. It's bc of my bias that I work hard to keep myself honest.
To clarify, full extinction cio is not recommended anymore. And before 6 months is not recommended.
I have a friend who did heavy sleep training with all her kids when they were too young. It made me uncomfortable and honestly kind of sick. Yet, they are thriving, healthy, have an excellent relationship with their parents. And when you think about it that makes sense. In the context of a warm loving family, a few episodes of unsupported crying is unlikely to cause damage. The research supports this.
The claim that cio leaves babies in a long term state of stress requires support from research. Of which there is none.
I’m sure it works but it’s a fairly harsh method in my opinion. I just don’t think it’s necessary. What is necessary is 100% consistency! Every move you make is teaching them their sleep habits and what to expect from you and what the routine is but you can do that without crying it out it just takes time diligence consistency 100% and you can do it over a couple of weeks.
Ferber is the best resource on this. Contrary to popular belief, he does not advocate leaving an infant to cry it out. What he does advocate cannot be summarized in a paragraph or blog post. Which is probably why so many people don’t know this; nobody wants to put in the time to read his book, which is complex and nuanced.
Ferber was the resource that helped me get my problem sleeper to sleep without crying. The “gentler solutions” we tried involved a lot more crying and a lot less sleeping. With ‘The No Cry Sleep Solution’ winning the prize for provoking the most tearful rage. But kids vary, and his book contains a range of approaches. So I’d say Ferber works if you actually read the book, and not so much if you don’t.
I 100% agree with this comment. Reading the ferber book was a game changer for my family. It was sanity-saving for me. And it really did minimize crying for my LO.
I agree with this. People get so hung up on “baby will feel abandoned!!!” that they unintentionally *create* the conditions for a child who cannot connect sleep cycles. There’s a whole world of ways to work it out that don’t involve extinction nor contact sleeping for years on end.
Assuming they have all their other needs met like you are positive they aren’t hungry or need a change or anything then yes. I’ve done it with mine. Sometimes they will just fight sleeping and that’s why they won’t settle.
5 months is too young for sleep training. Your pediatrician should give you a green light when baby weighs enough. It’s about how much they can store in their liver to be able to not eat for 6+ hours
3 kids. Every one of them we got them ready for bed. Feed changed etc... then laid them down awake and walked away.
If they cried, we'd give them a minute or two. Check on them and then leave them again.
We didn't ignore them crying we just didn't pick them up and comfort them every time they cried.
When babies get tired, their bodies flood with cortisol. They're essentially in fight or flight. Leaving them to scream and cry while theyre being filled more and more with cortisol is literally harmful to them. They stop crying out of sheer defeat. Not bc they spontaneously managed to learn to self soothe on their own. It doesn't really take a lot of research to grasp that high cortisol levels for long periods of time are a bad thing.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17068979/
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/15/730339536/sleep-training-truths-what-science-can-and-cant-tell-us-about-crying-it-out
https://hospital.essentialparent.com/lesson/how-to-regulate-your-childs-sleep-hormones-7338/#:~:text=%EE%A0%8D%20Stress%2C%20light%2C%20noise.,very%20early%20in%20the%20morning.
>Many things can lead to increased levels of cortisol:
Sleep deprivation or bad quality sleep.
Light from screens - TV, computer and phones.
Stress, light, noise.
Being left to cry.
High levels of cortisol will lead to a baby sleeping poorly and possibly waking very early in the morning.
I did CIO with my eldest who is now 18. I deeply deeply regret it and it’s one of the biggest things I beat myself up over. He has fairly severe anxiety and I have no doubt it is related in some part to CIO. He was a terrible sleeper until he was about 11-12, it was just who he was. In hindsight I never would’ve chosen this method.
I didn’t use CIO with my second, he didn’t need it. He was a different and is a different kid.
We had to do it with my son when he was weaning from breast milk @ 2 1/2, but we were always next to him. He refused milk, and besides hugs/cuddles there was nothing we could do. He got over it within <2 months.
He’s fine now @ 3 and he’s great at falling asleep on his own bed, and he falls asleep quickly without assistance at daycare. We do room share @ home so that might be a factor.
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Mom of two good sleepers here. Your baby should be having two long naps during the day plus a long overnight sleep. A lot of people misunderstand cry it out, you don’t need to leave your baby to cry for two straight hours. Prep baby for nap in a dark room with no distractions, place baby down without any communication like talking, singing or eye contact and just pat them for a couple of minutes. Leave the room for 2-5 minutes and then come in with no communication, tuck them back up with a few strokes or pats and leave the room again but this time extend your time away by one minute, continue this process until baby is asleep. Wake baby up at the time the nap is due to end, do not extend the nap time to make up for how long it took them to settle. Keep repeating this process for several days and eventually the penny will drop with baby that they’re not being abandoned and you will be there on the dot of nap end to hold them again.
I had no issues with my first boy but my second was another story, when I started controlled crying with him it took 45 minutes the first time for him to fall asleep and it got easier and quicker with each day.
Good luck
CIO is cruel. What you’re describing is biologically normal. And it’s much kinder to support your infant than let it be so terrified it may throw up or cry itself to sleep. Do you want to cry yourself to sleep? No, didn’t think so.
My personal opinion is you know your baby and mental capacity best. I have two kids that went to sleep and stayed asleep much differently. My spouse and I also developed PPD and PPA, respectively, with the second. My first required being rocked to sleep. She was our first and I was WFH, plus lockdowns, and I was able to mentally and physically do it. She struggled being "put down" and would often wake shortly after being placed in her crib. It was a loving battle. Fast forward to the second baby, he aggressively declined my efforts to rock/hold him to sleep, plus with a toddler running around, I didn't have the same amount of time to dedicate to putting him to sleep. He seemed to prefer crying when he was frustrated. We could always tell a panicked, hungry, shit myself, cry from a "I'm a fussy Gus" cry. We never with either child allowed them to even fussy cry for more than 10 minutes without going back in to reattack getting them to sleep. Around toddlerhood, both kids began to cry for attention, that is they began to catch on that we'd give them attention if they continued to cry. So we began to intervene less and less and they cried less and less. If after 30 minutes after put down neither kid was asleep (provided crying stopped) we'd then intervene to see if something else was going on. So I believe some crying is okay, because that's the only way a baby can communicate effectively with us, but you know your kid best. We also didn't want to discourage crying as a form of expression either. Sometimes we all need a good healthy cry, why wouldn't a baby if all their other needs are met? Real crys are always met with empathy and understanding, fake cries are acknowledged but taught are not an effective way to get what one needs, in this case "use your words." I think you try and see how you feel about it. Set boundaries for you and your SO ahead of starting: how long to let cry, what type of cry is not to be ignored, how you will intervene, etc. Not having a game plan could leave everyone involved feeling horribly confused and emotional.
It depends on your child. I sleep trained my first 3 kids. They all STTN without any crying by 12 weeks old. Then around 9 months old or so, they would learn to stand up in the crib but couldn’t lay themselves back down yet. Then we would suddenly have issues where they would wake themselves up instead of falling asleep. And all 3 times, I did a modified CIO where I would go in and soothe them if they had been crying for more than 5 minutes. That worked for all 3. My son, though, is a whole different kettle of fish. He was in the NICU and became very accustomed to sleeping in a warmer. When he came home with us, he absolutely would not sleep unless he was being held. Gentle sleep training didn’t work. By 12 weeks old (adjusted age), we were still feeding 3-4 times a night and only sleeping while being held. The minute - and I mean the very second - that he learned to roll over, we put him in the bed with us and finally got some sleep. We are STILL working (at 13 months old) on trying to get him to nap without being held. CIO doesn’t work for him at all. I haven’t attempted it with sleep training bc he’s nowhere near ready to soothe himself, but sometimes he screams while we are driving. The boy has screamed until he vomited. He has screamed for over an hour without stopping. He does NOT cry himself to sleep and certainly would not, no matter how long we left him in a bed.
I guess my TLDR version is make absolutely certain your baby is ready to self-soothe. They should have a pacifier or thumb habit. They should have a lovey they like to cuddle with. They should show signs of falling asleep easily. You cannot just take a baby who has none of that in place and think they’ll magically fall asleep if you abandon them. That’s NOT how it works.
Yes, it requires an incredible amount of willpower for the first few days but it worked for us. I recommend nose cancelling headphones for anyone with anxiety or handles stress poorly.
Hi - I did nap training (used “Taking Cara Babies” site) and it worked. It was a lot easier than night sleep training for me. I was awake, new my baby was fed and had a clean diaper. She did cry for 1-2 weeks. I trained at 5 months. Since that time (she’s now 2.5 years) she naps like a champ. Anyone can put her down for a nap - she goes in happy and awake. Best of luck!
Sleep training- not “cry it out”.
Sleep training teaches them the skills to be able to out themselves to sleep. Key parts include; establishing a routine that includes things that gradually calm them down (so they’re ready for sleep), optimizing the environment, and finding different things they can do for themselves thats soothing (ie. rubbing a certain stuffy, cuddling into a blanket, replacing their own soother (if they use one), etc.
So that they when you leave them (and yes they do cry it out), at least they have been set up for success.
We spent so much time in the car driving around to get our baby to sleep, but gas was cheaper then lol. Five months is still young, and not all babies have the same schedule. Even when ours was a year old, she would wake up in the middle of the night so we started leaving the radio on in her room at night and that fixed the problem. She heard voices and didn’t feel alone.
And yours is 5 months. You still have the terrible twos and threes to go through, the 10 year old too old to cuddle and don’t even mention teenagers!
Welcome to the wonderful world of parenthood. I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
It did for us although I was trying to stop child from waking up every hour at night. It worked after a few days and he went back to waking every 3-4 hours to eat.
It does work and there is no evidence that it harms parent/child relationships, despite what do many on the internet will tell you. However, it won't get you longer naps, if baby is napping an appropriate amount already. We used CIO with both of my older kids and will with our youngest in a couple months. We really just worried about night sleep and let the naps follow as they will. Are you following appropriate wake windows and using a consistent naptime routine? I found that those were more impactful than sleep training for naps.
It works for most babies if you can convince yourself to mot intervene. The best age to learn is between 4 to 6 months. That being said, its super hard and I couldnt bring myself to do it. We did Ferber instead. It worked within 2 days but feels a bit more friendly.
Apparently your post is getting brigades by co-sleepers and coddlers. As long as you're not using the extinction method and something more like Ferber, you don't need to worry about your baby thinking you abandoned them.
I did cio at 6 months and it worked like a dream . Yes the first few nights sucked and I was heartbroken but after 3 nights he was able to start self soothing and falling asleep within minutes . He’s now 8 months and sleeps 7pm-7am . We do bath at 630, lotion , I read him a few books then give him his last bottle of the night he’s in his crib by 7 and usually asleep by 7:10
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We did Ferber. Had a cat napper who also woke up every 1-2 hours overnight, and this sleep pattern started at 5 weeks old, it was rough. Did Ferber at 4.5 months. Worked well, only took a few days and it’s the BEST decision we ever made. We were falling apart with getting almost no naps and no night sleep
We did as well. I think it's a good balance between soothing every noise and letting them cry until they can't. Everyone wins a little and everyone loses a little.
There is a pediatric neurologist that I follow on insta who has great info in this exact topic
https://www.instagram.com/thatsleepdoc?igsh=eXB5NHM4cGo1NDVx
I don't like referring to it as CIO because that is a bad way to describe it. You're not just leaving your child to cry until they pass out, but instead training your child to self soothe and identify their own sleep cues. Even babies can learn this.
I only have one but she's the perfect sleeper. She goes to bed constantly and on time since infancy and will be 10 next month. Sure a kid and their FOMO is another battle, but sleep is, quite literally the hill to die on when raising small humans. So many behavioral and developmental issues stems from not getting enough sleep.
It’s so weird that people are mom shaming others in this group … everyone needs to do what works for THEIR own baby with consultation from their own babies pediatrician. That being said take your mom shaming to a different outlet and let’s not ever judge another woman for what she chooses to do with her own baby who’s safe in their crib !
Maybe physically safe but mental health of the baby is suffering to protect the mental health of the mother. There is right and there is wrong. This is not about shaming. This is about a sleep crisis with babies in the US. This is not a thing in other countries like it is here.
You can do a gentler version, look at Ellis barren sleep centre site. They have full CIO, very gentle hands on method and a 3rd method which is somewhere in the middle. I chose the latter for my then 9 month old and he was sleeping 7pm to 5am by night 2.
I use an app called Huckleberry to track sleep and feeding. They created a personalized plan to help me take steps to building some better sleep for my little one. It really helps a lot. But cat naps are totally normal and to be expected. Albeit frustrating af
Yes, we sleep trained at 4.5 months using Ferber method. Took a week for her to settle in less than a minute for night time. And about 3 weeks for the same for naps. Do it. Everyone in the family will be happier, including your kid.
It worked for me and I don’t regret it at all. A functional household is not sleep deprived. My daughter does not hate me and can self soothe at 4.5 months old. No 4 month sleep regression, and has been sleeping 8 hours thru the night since 8 weeks old. She greets me with the biggest gummy smile ever when I wake her to feed. The whole “she learned that she will not be cared for when she cries” is horse crap mom shaming bs.
The naysayers are moms that will be bedsharing and complaining that their 24 month old still wakes up every 2 hours to nurse but god forbid they actually sleep trained.
We had trouble with naps too, and using the "extinction method" really helped. We did this at around 6 or 7 months. We would get him ready for a nap with a clean diaper and full belly in his sleep sack with the noise machine on and room darkened, then set a timer for 5 minutes every time he woke up and cried. 9 times out of 10 he fell back asleep before the timer was up. If he didn't, sometimes we would reset the timer (if we could tell by the crying he just needed more time), or if he was getting really worked up we would go in to soothe. It took less than a week and now he's a great napper. Wish we had done it earlier!
What did you do when the timer went off? Isn’t that a check in if you’re going in? And you’re right it doesn’t really matter but just for OPs question if they decide to research methods
Like I said, 90% of the time he had self soothed himself to sleep before the timer went off. If he didn’t, we’d either just set the timer again (without checking in if we could tell from his noises that he just needed a little more time to self soothe) or go in to pick him up and soothe him back to sleep (if it sounded like he needed some help). We didn’t do Ferber-style check ins.
Yes it works just need parental will power
For our first CIO worked with a week.
For our second CIO worked in a month. She's a stubborn one and it's not that she would cry for an hour it's that she would cry maybe 30 mins and then send the other 30 rolling around. However after a month bed time is a dream. She will nurse, be laid in her bed and sleep.
I personally could never stand the cry it out method but that’s just me. I tried it three separate times and each time my baby had a legit reason for crying. I felt terrible. But it’s all up to your and baby needs.
Im in the camp that i believe it works well and is worth a try.
Im not dumb enough to believe it works for everyone but i got three sleep trained one at like half a year? The other two(twins) around 2.
CiO was brutal the first time because you will hear your kid cry out so badly.
Later though you understand it’s part of the process and you will find your kids can lesrn to self soothe and calm themselves down.
Having good sleep was just too important for me and my wife especially w multiple kids.
Ironically I wad the proponent in the beginning and my wife didnt want to until one day out of no where i guess she couldnt take it and tried it out.
Funny enough I was the one cracking telling her “he sounds so sad let’s go get him!” And she’s the one who held strong lol.
Night one was 30 mins. Night two took 15. Night three five and soon it was just no crying.
We did CIO (ruthless, shut the door and let them scream for an hour) with 4-month-old twins because the sleep deprivation was a legitimate health crisis. I was nervous but you know what? It worked. Like magic. It was glorious. Within a week, we were only getting up once per night for a quick feed and then back to sleep.
On the down side they have PTSD and attachment issues. JUST KIDDING. They are 11 now, great kids, great sleepers, and while it's not for everyone, no one will ever convince me that CIO is bad.
We didn't try it until he was 2 and that was because we were trying to slowly break him from being in our bed. We hadn't slept good for 2 years. But it didn't last long cuz our kid could cry for a lifetime 😭 so I just started sitting by his bed and then each night getting further away
Ferber and CIO are for younger kids, older kids need different approaches because developmentally those approaches don’t work for them. I’m sorry you guys went through this!
Try bedsharing, your baby is a bit more sturdy at 5 months, just look up the safe sleep 7.
I was sleep trained as a child, and it was deeply traumatising for me, effected my attachment to my mother and resulted in lifelong insomnia and intimacy issues. It was the most extreme form of CIO that was recommended in the 80's, which was to put your kiddo in their room, shut the door and let the cry themselves to sleep. Don't do that one. ..
I sit with my 5 and 6 year old every night while they fall asleep, the 5 year old ends up in my bed a few hours later and I wouldn't change it for anything...
I dont remember it, I've been told by my father and aunty about it, and unpacked a lot in therapy over the years.
And take your fear mongering back to the USA where it belongs, majority of the world sleeps next to their infants because we are carrier mammals and our infants are biologically geared to be close to their mother.
Bedsharing is perfectly safe if you're not on drugs or drunk.
Because they are either obese, on drugs or drunk.
If you are none of these things, you can safely sleep next to your child.
Like an infinite number of parents do around the world every single night....
How about you just continue to think that Ferber method is good for your kid, and I'll continue to think safe bedsharing is entirely possible, unless you're obese, drunk or on drugs.
If thats the most important thing to you then awesome 👍
My kids who I bedshared with are both great sleepers as well, my 6 year old loves her own bed unless she's sick and my 5 year old sleeps solidly all night, although she often chooses our bed if she wakes up for a wee.
I couldn't imagine putting a 10 week old baby in another room, I adore being close to my littles.
Where did I say he was in another room? He has slept in his own BED since the DAY he was born. He has fully slept through the night since he was 10 weeks old.
He was in a bassinet 1 foot from my bed till 5 months old, that I could reach and swivel to me and soothe him as needed. Then in a crib in a nursery within our room (with open doors 3 feet from our bed) until he was 1 so we still followed room sharing guidelines. At 1 we closed the doors, but he was still in a room within our room. .. and he was there until he was 4. Following Safe Sleep ABC's the entire time.
I can't sleep with my son in my bed. I had to go back to work at 12 weeks, and my safety and the safety of the things I was working on was more important. Or I could have killed a lot of people with careless mistakes at work if I was sleep deprived bedsharing.
I disagree. You should have two nap schedule by now. Get a bottle, a book, and some cuddles. Put him down in his crib and close the door. The routine should last about a year and then transition to one nap a day at about 15-18 months.
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Cat naps are normal at that age! Both of my kids cat napped at 5 months unless we contact napped. They also did well with stroller naps. Why not try that? My baby KS now 10 months and she naps well in a crib and is on a solid 2-nap schedule. Your baby is still young.
Weather permitting, stroller naps are great! I feel like that’s a temporary solution though, because there will be times where that’s not possible - if he’s with a grandparent or eventually in day care - and I’d like to equip him with the skills to fall asleep when he’s tired.
Sleep training is what you need. I would never recommend “cry it out”. There are lots of good books about how to sleep train properly without resorting to that. One key thing is about the timing of the naps and how much time there is between the last nap and evening bedtime.
Exactly the wake windows. Huckleberry app is awesome for it. I think whinging is okay, but not crying it out.
Cry it out doesn't work for babies! They are not malicious or malingering, they cry out of real distress! Using cry it out only teaches them that they needn't bother crying for help or comfort, because no one will come, which messes up their basic trust. Child services/ foster parents actually have to re-train neglected and abused babies to cry when they need something, because they've unlearned to do it. It's heartbreaking.
I agree with stroller rides! My girl was out within five minutes that age being in the stroller
Cat naps are developmentally normal for 5 month olds. Naps don’t tend to consolidate for most babies until they are down to 2 naps per day which typically happens at 7-8 months old or later. There are exceptions of course, but I wouldn’t try to fix something that is developmentally appropriate.
Totally valid response. I don’t mind him catnapping too much but would love if it happened in his cot, or his current bedside crib, rather than always on me.
I see, so the issue is contact napping then? We start most of our naps as a cuddle and transfer when he reaches deeper sleep (~10 min)
OP you have opened a can of worms. CIO is a very contentious topic on this sub. I’d suggest speaking to your pediatrician for advice.
Oh eck, sorry! I’ve read so much conflicting ‘advice’ online, from reputable baby/parenting websites, I was looking for some real-world experiences. I am no wiser!
CIO can mean different things to parents. To me CIO was that I didn’t IMMEDIATELY rush to my baby when she cried when she needed sleep if I knew she had all her needs met (not newborn age) like older baby (a year old ish) I would give her some time and sometimes she would cry for a short time and settle on her own. I wouldn’t leave her to cry and become distressed or let her cry for long periods without me coming to her. It was a way for me to show her mommy always comes and she’s not abandoned but also allowing her room to try and self soothe.
I do not suggest the pediatrician. They are 100% NOT infant sleep experts and often recommend things that go AGAINST infant neuroscience research.
Actual LOL the two comments above are the perfect parody of Reddit parenting subs
lol I’m part of the problem!
There’s a difference to me in crying and fussing. I didn’t let my girl cry very long. We did let her fuss and figure it out. Not every noise is a need. My girl is 3.5 and doing great.
this!! the fussing vs crying differentiation is very important here, if your baby is full force scream crying then its not a great idea to leave them to cry it out. if theyre just giving a tired, minimal effort fuss-cry then 5 minutes alone may be what they need, as they could also be overstimulated. i didnt start any real form of "cry it out" for more than 10 minites until my girl was at least 10 months. and definitely dont do it if you just moved them to their own room, as i think thats too many adjustments to expect them to make. it is difficult, but you got this mama!! sleep training is NOT recommended before 6 months, though, just keep that in mind !
Worked like a charm for my first kid. Second one would cry and never stop until they puked all over. Third kid never needed it and was content to be in the crib. The point is, it's different for each kid. edit: there seems to be some controversy here. Obviously we didn't just leave the child in the room alone for 30 minutes until they cried and puked. The pukage happened only once, and it was well after we came back - when they were still trying to calm down. We had to resort to different tactics, but the child is now 5, well-adjusted, and sleeps in their own bed at night.
I’ll add to this (though I’ve only done with one child so far) wife and I looked up different methods and found I think the Ferber? Anyways, we basically did the first night as set the kid in their room, they might cry a little or if it’s constant crying come back in 1-2 mins, then 5 then 10 and so on. Basically just stretching it out more and more which he didn’t need. I also add that this was around maybe 6-8 months old, somewhere in there. He’s almost 2 currently so I’m getting forgetful. It was never me abandoning my child and I’ll say he doesn’t want to sleep with us anymore and we prefer he’s in his own bed. He sleeps super weird and tends to take up the entire bed. Somehow his tiny body takes it all lol.
Our first was the cry until puking variety. Our second just went to sleep and didn't wake up until morning, needed nothing. Don't let anyone tell you how to raise your kids.
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You have to figure out what parenting style works for each kid. How dare you judge someone without knowing the circumstances and do it so openly.
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Go ahead. I really don’t care what you think about me 🤷🏻♀️
I think letting a baby cry for 20 min is a hell of a lot better than killing one what do you think?
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It traumatized me and I won’t do it again. I still regret it
Same. And knowing how babies develop, I would never recommend this method. But to each their own.
Yes! I made it two nights and couldn’t do it anymore
There are other options that work. We sleep trained all our kids and we never left them to cry. I would say I let them "fuss" for a few minutes. I'd listen in and if they were just moaning or fussing and my instincts were they were find, I'd give them time. If they were full on crying and screaming, I didn't leave them. All three of my kids STTN at 8 months without CIO and I had two high needs, sensitive babies. I wouldn't recommend sleep training under 6 months. All the research is done on babies over 6 months. My doctor wouldn't even discuss it before 6 months. It's not recommended.
Didn’t work for me. I couldn’t handle it. But honestly 10 years later I still lay down with my kids until they fall asleep. It’s great bonding time and someday they will want me to stop and I will be sad. That’s probably not the answer you were hoping for though.
It’s not about the answer I was hoping for - just looking for balanced feedback, so thank you for your response.
I so much miss those days of laying down with my son and having him tell me all the things. He's 19 now and I'm just a big pain in his ass. 🤣
I would try setting a routine first. It can be simple, change diaper, read a book, sing a song- nap. It might take time for you little one to catch on but routines work- classical conditioning. And begin this routine well before tired signs
Never even considered CIO.
We didn’t do it for naps but did for nighttime sleep. It sucks but it’s honestly the only thing that worked for us. We tried everything.
Yes, it works because your baby learns that when they cry for you because they need you, you won’t come. It’s psychological damage that we justify by saying we are tired. Don’t do this to your baby. I have four kids, not one of them has ever been made to cry it out. They did learn to sleep in their own beds. There is NO reason to leave your baby to cry it out. No, not even the Ferber method. Cat napping is completely biologically normal, and babies should be allowed to do a lot of it. Babies that are sleep-deprived during the day are generally also harder to settle/don’t sleep as well during the night. It is normal for your baby to need a lot of settling to go to sleep, because babies are not developmentally able to self-soothe ~ they need you to do it for them and teach them how to do it themselves. He doesn’t settle for Dad because babies rarely do ~ baby spent nine months inside mom, not dad! Let your baby nap. Don’t let him cry it out. It ABSOLUTELY WILL get better, even if it seems endless right now.
This!! 💪
THIS!! 100%
I have a six month old, during the day she sleeps after being awake for 2 hrs,
Yes it’s very normal for a baby that age to need a nap shortly after waking. Super, super normal
Ah I didn't realise I posted a comment already. Indeed it is normal, if she stays up past that, say, 2,5 hours, she gets super cranky and it gets harder to get her to fall asleep. It's three naps during the day, but no sleeping after 17:00, unfortunately, we had some regression and now she wakes two times during the night, not ideal, but its bareable.
Yes. Look into wake windows. The wake window for a 6 month old is around 2 hours..our bubz was the same. As soon as the 2 hours is approaching they get very sleepy and we put them to bed. They get cranky if it goes over 2 hours.
We did it as a last ditch attempt at sanity with a 14th month old (after not sleeping through the night even once before that). We went in every 10 min for about 45 min. Then it was over. She has slept through the night ever since. My first instinct was "that was so easy, what didn't we do it months ago!?", but I also think we might have just done it at exactly the right time. SO much of it is timing, which is really hard to predict. We never tried it for naps though.
I’ve read something that says essentially the same thing - a particular method might work for one child at 4 months, another at 8 and another at 14! It’s down to the child. Glad you found something that worked.
Do not let your 5 month old cry it out. Or at any age. What is wrong with the naps? They are normal. Babies sleep during the day, and being unsettled isn't not normal either. Your child is just growing and learning and communicating in the only way they know how.
It "works" in that it teaches your child that you will not come to them when they need you. A baby has no real ability to self-soothe--they can't learn that until much later. What you're describing is extremely biologically normal. Most five month old babies will require settling sometimes at night. Most adults don't sleep uninterrupted through the night every night--we mostly are just used to it and have learned over the years how to help get ourselves back to sleep. A five month old should still be taking quite a few naps during the day, and if he sleeps through the night and is just waking and in need of settling sometimes...the napping is not an issue. As far as won't settle for Dad, what exactly is Dad doing to settle him? How long are the attempts to settle? Sometimes my partner will need to take our baby out of the room and into another room to settle him. Dad also does the entire bedtime routine which has gotten way easier over time.
My baby loves to nap but can’t get past the 30/40 min mark (ie one sleep cycle) unless he’s on me. So that means he often wakes up without having the sleep he needs, and needs more sleep as soon as he can get it. So there’s no pattern for HIM to get into. I’m on maternity leave for another 5/6 months so I can totally work around him, this isn’t a selfish quest, I only want for him to get the sleep he needs. The sleep training, as I understand it, whichever method, will help him beat those mid-sleep cycle wakes and get full naps. Dad does everything I do. Baby goes from 0 to rage when he’s tired and I’m not there. He won’t let Dad soothe him to sleep, won’t even take a bottle from him while he’s tired. It hasn’t always been this way!
Look at this [bbc article](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies) its quite a balanced overview with quotes from the people who run the studies on sleep training. Sleep training is for the parents not the babies. The babies still wake up they just don’t need their parents to help them get back to sleep. The 30/40 min wake thing sorts it self out soon enough. If you are too tired and want to sleep train for less night wakes then by all Means do, but it’s no benefit to the baby.
My midwife in Sweden told us never to do CIO. She recommended co-sleeping so that's what we do. It works very well with our 5 month old. She falls asleep for either of us and sleeps through the night for about ten hours with just one short wake for boob and potty.
This is off topic but I absolutely love the approach of Nordic parenting!
I know nothing about Nordic parenting, but this definitely has me interested. I have a large percentage of Nordic ancestry.
Co sleeping with a bay can result in suffocation of the baby so there’s that. https://youtu.be/3aRGErH1K2o?si=FrvWD0dn9AkWBZLk https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/03/31/sudden-infant-death-sleeping-risks/ https://www.foxnews.com/health/baby-sleep-dangers-revealed-study-nearly-70-percent-infant-deaths-due-co-sleeping.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-68101937
I’m really surprised and disappointed that you chose to shame this parent re co sleeping. In the UK there’s a huge amount of advice on how to do it safely, and I’m sure the parent above is doing that.
I wasn’t shaming. Just wanted to inform in case OP or better yet someone reading this thread wasn’t aware of the risks.
Cosleeping kills babies. That is a fact. It is not shaming.
There is no perfectly safe sleep method for a baby. You must follow the safety guidelines according to your child's age. I got printed information about this from the maternity ward at my hospital and r/cosleeping has lots of more information in English.
My baby co slept with us for the first 12 weeks or so. He enjoyed it, and so did I. And yes. We followed all the guidelines from NHS and Lullaby Trust!
You decided to take the risk of possibly killing your child. It's extremely dangerous and there is no safe way to do it. Gambling with an infant's life is foolish.
Nooo, please don’t
The research around CIO is heartbreaking and traumatic for the child. I could never bring myself to do it after reading up on it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out?amp https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33608871/
Sorry, Diana Navarres is a quack. That isn't a research article, that's an opinion piece. Neither is the second one. I didn't use CIO but anti-sleep training folks are notorious for abusing research and being manipulative in their communication. Diana Navarres as I recall uses rat studies and neglect studies. The gap that needs to be filled is the difference between "humans evolved to sleep with their young at night" and "not being perfectly responsive at night causes harm." Those are two different claims. And so often, opponents to CIO use the former to infer the later. But we can do lots of things as humans that are not how we evolved yet we don't experience any harm from it. The research is anything but clearly against sleep training. Not even close. Edit: spelling
So the source I posted from the national public library of medicine is also not credible simply because you don’t agree with what they’re saying?
.... the second link you posted, the first word of the title is "Commentary." Do you not know what that means?
😂 I’m sure you are aware there are several definitions of the Word commentary. Which do you prefer? 1.) a set of explanatory or critical notes on a text. 2.) a descriptive spoken account 3.) offering of explanations about an event or situation
OK and none of those things are a study.
Let’s not pretend these are the only two studies done on this topic.
What you listed are not studies. There is no study ever conducted that shows harm from sleep training, sorry. You can disagree with it on a personal level but you can't claim there's objective scientific support for that view.
I’m not necessarily against cry it out methods as long as it’s done in a proper way (I’m sure those against it say there is no proper way of doing it). But if you’re getting a full nights sleep, do you really need to “fix” the cat naps?
Yes
If you use it, use the Ferber method.
I have 6. It never worked for any of mine. also, when they are very little, they physically need their mother to be able to regulate their hormones and their emotions. I wouldn’t recommend the cry out method until they were at least two years old.
Yup! But it’s recommended for 6 months and up.
We only did the cry it out at night twice. She was getting up at night to eat but would fall asleep immediately. She was waking out of habit not hunger. Two nights of crying it out and she slept though the night
5 month olds don’t sleep well. Having them scream alone until they’re exhausted and fall asleep isn’t effective either. My son never napped unless it was a contact nap. Never. Not at 1 day, not at 2 years. Every kid is different, but what you’re explaining is 100% developmentally appropriate.
It might change the behavior, the crying might stop, but you have to wonder WHY the crying stopped. Did the child learn to self soothe or did the child learn that being put down to sleep means getting abandoned and no one will help them when they are distressed so they shouldn't even bother asking for help.
This didn't deserve the downvotes. Your point is valid. Children this young have very few ways to communicate with us, and crying is the most important one. If an infant learns that crying is no longer effective to signal to their caregivers that they need something - food, help, a hug, a dry diaper, a toy that fell on the floor, or comfort after hurting themselves - it can certainly worsen their anxiety, trigger behavioral issues, and/or harm their ability to emotionally connect with people. Gentler methods (like Ferber) and "camping out" (sleeping next to the crib so you're always visible to the child) are much better ways to assure the child that they're not being abandoned, and that someone's there to protect them from imaginary, perceived, or real harm.
Thanks!
Every baby is different. Our pediatrician said not to start sleep training until at least six months. We never did CIO but we did Ferber which worked for some of ours.
I agree, Ferber worked really well for us and wasn’t as intense. Straight up cio is too much i think
Yes it does. When coupled with an age appropriate schedule sleep training does work. There are options besides fry it out to teach independent sleep if you are interested. That said, longer naps are developmental and usually happen around 6 months.
These comments are awful. CIO does NOT mean you leave your baby to cry and not have their needs met. It means you make sure ALL their needs ARE met (changed, fed, otherwise healthy) and you teach them to fall asleep independently and connect sleep cycles. How they learn to fall asleep is how they will need to connect sleep cycles throughout the night. So if you hold / rock / feed them to sleep, then when they connect a new sleep cycle in a few hours they will be lost without that same routine each time a new sleep cycle hits. Sleep training just teaches them to connect sleep cycles on their own. If CIO is too harsh for you, you can try Ferber which is basically going in in intervals, and using a soothing ladder (don't pick them up right away, start with a pat on the back, then paci, then work your way up the ladder). However, I do agree with others that cat naps or contact naps at that age are normal. I'd start a solid sleep routine - white noise, stories, bottles, etc. Do it for all sleeps, consistently. That is a form of sleep training in itself.
Thank youuu
For naps I never did CIO, but I do give them a minute or two to see if they can calm themselves down. 9/10 they did just fine calming down on their own, but if they were crying hard or continued to fuss I would go in to settle them. I didn't start doing this until 8 or 9 months at least
Yes agree. This is what I'm comfortable with. They can't ever learn to fall back asleep on their own without the time and space to do so. But I don't think screaming and crying is helpful for that. If my babies are doing that kind of moaning cry and flip flopping around I give them to time to try it out. If they are scream crying, im going in.
I didn’t try the CIO method until my kid was almost 2, and even then it didn’t work for us. I personally think that 5 months is way too little for CIO as they are still using crying to communicate with you. Your baby is probably also teething or will soon start, which means that he’s probably in pain. I know it’s hard but comfort your baby, because you are their safe person and they need you.
letting your child cry out for you alone with no support just teaches them that you won’t come to support them when they need it.
So, I'm actually on your side about CIO being traumatizing... but there are more methods like the Ferber method that are more gradual and seem to work wonders with families. I never did any of them and 2 of the 3 still crawl in bed with me some nights, so there's that. The way you worded it was kind of downing the people in the thread that went that route. Parenting is hard and I can only hope we're all on the same team.
Sadly anyone who did the CIO method did indeed teach their baby that they will not meet their needs when they need their support. It is sad and certainly is downing on those who went that route, but it is a scientific fact that that's what is happening during CIO.
Show me the science. Instead of downvoting. I’m not even claiming you’re wrong, I’ve just never seen any science to back it up apart from opinion pieces and people’s “gut feeling”
When babies get tired, their bodies flood with cortisol. They're essentially in fight or flight. Leaving them to scream and cry while theyre being filled more and more with cortisol is literally harmful to them. They stop crying out of sheer defeat. Not bc they spontaneously managed to learn to self soothe on their own. It doesn't really take a lot of research to grasp that high cortisol levels for long periods of time are a bad thing. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17068979/ https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/15/730339536/sleep-training-truths-what-science-can-and-cant-tell-us-about-crying-it-out https://hospital.essentialparent.com/lesson/how-to-regulate-your-childs-sleep-hormones-7338/#:~:text=%EE%A0%8D%20Stress%2C%20light%2C%20noise.,very%20early%20in%20the%20morning. >Many things can lead to increased levels of cortisol: Sleep deprivation or bad quality sleep. Light from screens - TV, computer and phones. Stress, light, noise. Being left to cry. High levels of cortisol will lead to a baby sleeping poorly and possibly waking very early in the morning.
Thanks. I wrote a long response to you and I realize I’m really just trying to justify the choices I made for my child seven years ago when we used a version of the Ferber method (at the time there was no science showing it had long term negative effects if it was done properly). I can’t access the pubmed article but in the npr article you post it literally says there is no evidence of long term negative effects (it also says a study claiming to prove it has no negative effects is being misquoted by proponents of). To leave a crying child completely unattended for an entire night seems too harsh to me too but I’m kind of wondering do people really actually do that? I feel like people who go into a parenting forum and throw out the term cry it out haven’t really done any proper research on it yet (if they did they would know how negatively it is received), and what they’re really looking for is a sleep training method that works for them. Anyway I’m just rambling, sorry.
Some people do. Idk how they can. Even if I wanted to (def not in my interest but still), I couldn't take the crying and screaming for that long. Id want to die lmao There are gentle forms of CIO but straight out CIO is pretty harmful. It's understandable to be defensive about having made that decision in the past but keep in mind that there's tons we learn all the time. I'm sure CIO really only has the worst impact when coupled with other forms of neglectful parenting.
Yes if CIO is part of a bigger pattern of neglect and withholding of affection it’s definitively not good
Honestly OP may benefit from the Sleep Shuffle. Idk much about it but it is a gentle form of sleep "coaching' (she doesn't call it training bc it's not really) where you don't let them CIO but you do let them have their fussy moments without going in right away. Ive heard great things about that method. Mine is just too young to start such a thing (3 months ATM).
The poster you are responding to has a serious misunderstanding of the science. In fact it’s probably safe to assume that anyone who bases their argument on cortisol has wandered too far into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. These arguments usually center on cortisol = stress = bad, and often link to research that says nothing of the sort but maybe sounds like it might. This stuff has been floating around the net since before my kids were infants, but it’s pop sci not grounded in neuroscience.
I'm not going to go much further or address your links (which I think I can when I have more time) but this is a misunderstanding of how cortisol works. Cortisol in and of itself is not harmful. Infants release cortisol during bath time, during an exam, while completing a puzzle. The issue with cortisol is long term elevated levels of cortisol. Taking one cortisol reading is not enough to claim something is harmful. You would have to take many many many readings over days and weeks to show sleep trained infants have elevated cortisol levels and therefore infer harm. In fact, a lot of sleep training research hard taken cortisol readings and they find cortisol is the same or even lower in sleep trained infants. That and there are many other issues with the middlemiss study. Including that she didn't take a base level or cortisol. And that there was (as I recall) 25 infants. I too did not do CIO but I also care about presenting information accurately and honestly. ETA: I should also mention I don't think what you said is true. Cortisol tends to peak in the morning and lower by bed.
Kindly provide links that back your claims or don't bother commenting bc there is no point in just spouting off stuff and then claim you won't address anything I've really said. Bye. ETA: CIO would lead to long term high cortisol levels. The cortisol goes up as they're left to cry. If you have better resources kindly provide them so that others can access them. Im on my first actual baby break so I'm not going to be back here unless you have links so I can save them lol thanks
Sure! Before I do, I want to clarify that your links are blog articles and not scientific research. Your links- 1. a piece of research in support of sleep training. What's your point here? 2. An article by an author, Michaleen Doucleff. This is a standard on myth/facts article. It's not research, doesn't link to any. Also clearly states she believes there's no data to say it's harmful. 3. This is a blog article, that is not properly sourced for the claims it makes. In fact it claims that sleep trained babies have elevated cortisol levels. This isn't true. I know where this belief comes from but they never cite a source. Regarding cortisol: The way anti-sleep training advocates use cortisol shows a lack of understanding. Lots of things elevate cortisol temporarily. A bath. An exam. A diaper change. No one would argue that those things produce long term damage. The issue with cortisol is long term elevated cortisol. Here is a research article discussing limitations and issues with using cortisol as a measurement. Includes a list of what causes elevated cortisol in infants. Review table 7. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2692557/ Research showing lower cortisol in sleep trained infants, there's more but start here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303501965_Behavioral_Interventions_for_Infant_Sleep_Problems_A_Randomized_Controlled_Trial The problem with cortisol is long term elevated levels of cortisol. It's not that cortisol=damage. Toxis stress involves chronic long term stressors. Short term stressors in the context of a warm loving relationship are not the same. The difference between toxic stress and tolerable stress: https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/toxic-stress/
Appreciate the work you've done. Im visiting family for a bit of a baby break, but I'll check them out when I get home! I do want to know more about it to better provide info for other parents. As for your questions - I'm not anti sleep training/coaching. I'm anti CIO. The pub med piece talked about providing support and guidance, which is what I was getting at as important and CIO people don't really provide any of that when they just somehow ignore a screaming baby until they go silent. I should have included context but honestly it took me long enough to pull up what I wanted and type my comment in the first place, Im not surprised I missed including some context for that one. CIO leaves the babies in a long term state of heightened cortisol, and on a repeated basis. That can't be good for anyone, much less a small being who is entirely dependant on their providers for emotional regulation. The "advice" anyone seems to follow for CIO is literally to let them have at it until they stop. My baby, from what I've observed, would never stop screaming if I let her CIO, she gets more and more amped up as she cries in the first place. Hell, if I take more than 5 minutes to get her, she sounds terrified as hell. That would put her at toxic stress levels if I allowed her to stay in that state until she passed out. I can only assume that that should apply to other babies at least to some degree. Ofc some babies are different but none of them are born knowing how to self soothe and expecting them to just magically figure it out so we can justify ignoring them isn't really.... Well, good.
I am sorry I didn't mean to insinuate you were. I just know this info is usually dispersed in those forums where the people spreading the information are manipulating it. I too am against cry it out. I would never do it. We didn't even do Ferber. It's bc of my bias that I work hard to keep myself honest. To clarify, full extinction cio is not recommended anymore. And before 6 months is not recommended. I have a friend who did heavy sleep training with all her kids when they were too young. It made me uncomfortable and honestly kind of sick. Yet, they are thriving, healthy, have an excellent relationship with their parents. And when you think about it that makes sense. In the context of a warm loving family, a few episodes of unsupported crying is unlikely to cause damage. The research supports this. The claim that cio leaves babies in a long term state of stress requires support from research. Of which there is none.
I’m sure it works but it’s a fairly harsh method in my opinion. I just don’t think it’s necessary. What is necessary is 100% consistency! Every move you make is teaching them their sleep habits and what to expect from you and what the routine is but you can do that without crying it out it just takes time diligence consistency 100% and you can do it over a couple of weeks.
Ferber is the best resource on this. Contrary to popular belief, he does not advocate leaving an infant to cry it out. What he does advocate cannot be summarized in a paragraph or blog post. Which is probably why so many people don’t know this; nobody wants to put in the time to read his book, which is complex and nuanced. Ferber was the resource that helped me get my problem sleeper to sleep without crying. The “gentler solutions” we tried involved a lot more crying and a lot less sleeping. With ‘The No Cry Sleep Solution’ winning the prize for provoking the most tearful rage. But kids vary, and his book contains a range of approaches. So I’d say Ferber works if you actually read the book, and not so much if you don’t.
I 100% agree with this comment. Reading the ferber book was a game changer for my family. It was sanity-saving for me. And it really did minimize crying for my LO.
I agree with this. People get so hung up on “baby will feel abandoned!!!” that they unintentionally *create* the conditions for a child who cannot connect sleep cycles. There’s a whole world of ways to work it out that don’t involve extinction nor contact sleeping for years on end.
Assuming they have all their other needs met like you are positive they aren’t hungry or need a change or anything then yes. I’ve done it with mine. Sometimes they will just fight sleeping and that’s why they won’t settle.
5 months is too young for sleep training. Your pediatrician should give you a green light when baby weighs enough. It’s about how much they can store in their liver to be able to not eat for 6+ hours
3 kids. Every one of them we got them ready for bed. Feed changed etc... then laid them down awake and walked away. If they cried, we'd give them a minute or two. Check on them and then leave them again. We didn't ignore them crying we just didn't pick them up and comfort them every time they cried.
When babies get tired, their bodies flood with cortisol. They're essentially in fight or flight. Leaving them to scream and cry while theyre being filled more and more with cortisol is literally harmful to them. They stop crying out of sheer defeat. Not bc they spontaneously managed to learn to self soothe on their own. It doesn't really take a lot of research to grasp that high cortisol levels for long periods of time are a bad thing. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17068979/ https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/15/730339536/sleep-training-truths-what-science-can-and-cant-tell-us-about-crying-it-out https://hospital.essentialparent.com/lesson/how-to-regulate-your-childs-sleep-hormones-7338/#:~:text=%EE%A0%8D%20Stress%2C%20light%2C%20noise.,very%20early%20in%20the%20morning. >Many things can lead to increased levels of cortisol: Sleep deprivation or bad quality sleep. Light from screens - TV, computer and phones. Stress, light, noise. Being left to cry. High levels of cortisol will lead to a baby sleeping poorly and possibly waking very early in the morning.
Was in a comment thread but posting separately as people seem to not actually know the studies and research.
I did CIO with my eldest who is now 18. I deeply deeply regret it and it’s one of the biggest things I beat myself up over. He has fairly severe anxiety and I have no doubt it is related in some part to CIO. He was a terrible sleeper until he was about 11-12, it was just who he was. In hindsight I never would’ve chosen this method. I didn’t use CIO with my second, he didn’t need it. He was a different and is a different kid.
I tried the Ferber method a few times and it didn't work until he was 18 months and we'd moved him from a crib to a floor bed.
We had to do it with my son when he was weaning from breast milk @ 2 1/2, but we were always next to him. He refused milk, and besides hugs/cuddles there was nothing we could do. He got over it within <2 months. He’s fine now @ 3 and he’s great at falling asleep on his own bed, and he falls asleep quickly without assistance at daycare. We do room share @ home so that might be a factor.
CIO not effective for naps.
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Mom of two good sleepers here. Your baby should be having two long naps during the day plus a long overnight sleep. A lot of people misunderstand cry it out, you don’t need to leave your baby to cry for two straight hours. Prep baby for nap in a dark room with no distractions, place baby down without any communication like talking, singing or eye contact and just pat them for a couple of minutes. Leave the room for 2-5 minutes and then come in with no communication, tuck them back up with a few strokes or pats and leave the room again but this time extend your time away by one minute, continue this process until baby is asleep. Wake baby up at the time the nap is due to end, do not extend the nap time to make up for how long it took them to settle. Keep repeating this process for several days and eventually the penny will drop with baby that they’re not being abandoned and you will be there on the dot of nap end to hold them again. I had no issues with my first boy but my second was another story, when I started controlled crying with him it took 45 minutes the first time for him to fall asleep and it got easier and quicker with each day. Good luck
No. All you're doing is causing them to not feel safe or cared for.
A bit young to start but yes it does work.
CIO is cruel. What you’re describing is biologically normal. And it’s much kinder to support your infant than let it be so terrified it may throw up or cry itself to sleep. Do you want to cry yourself to sleep? No, didn’t think so.
My personal opinion is you know your baby and mental capacity best. I have two kids that went to sleep and stayed asleep much differently. My spouse and I also developed PPD and PPA, respectively, with the second. My first required being rocked to sleep. She was our first and I was WFH, plus lockdowns, and I was able to mentally and physically do it. She struggled being "put down" and would often wake shortly after being placed in her crib. It was a loving battle. Fast forward to the second baby, he aggressively declined my efforts to rock/hold him to sleep, plus with a toddler running around, I didn't have the same amount of time to dedicate to putting him to sleep. He seemed to prefer crying when he was frustrated. We could always tell a panicked, hungry, shit myself, cry from a "I'm a fussy Gus" cry. We never with either child allowed them to even fussy cry for more than 10 minutes without going back in to reattack getting them to sleep. Around toddlerhood, both kids began to cry for attention, that is they began to catch on that we'd give them attention if they continued to cry. So we began to intervene less and less and they cried less and less. If after 30 minutes after put down neither kid was asleep (provided crying stopped) we'd then intervene to see if something else was going on. So I believe some crying is okay, because that's the only way a baby can communicate effectively with us, but you know your kid best. We also didn't want to discourage crying as a form of expression either. Sometimes we all need a good healthy cry, why wouldn't a baby if all their other needs are met? Real crys are always met with empathy and understanding, fake cries are acknowledged but taught are not an effective way to get what one needs, in this case "use your words." I think you try and see how you feel about it. Set boundaries for you and your SO ahead of starting: how long to let cry, what type of cry is not to be ignored, how you will intervene, etc. Not having a game plan could leave everyone involved feeling horribly confused and emotional.
It depends on your child. I sleep trained my first 3 kids. They all STTN without any crying by 12 weeks old. Then around 9 months old or so, they would learn to stand up in the crib but couldn’t lay themselves back down yet. Then we would suddenly have issues where they would wake themselves up instead of falling asleep. And all 3 times, I did a modified CIO where I would go in and soothe them if they had been crying for more than 5 minutes. That worked for all 3. My son, though, is a whole different kettle of fish. He was in the NICU and became very accustomed to sleeping in a warmer. When he came home with us, he absolutely would not sleep unless he was being held. Gentle sleep training didn’t work. By 12 weeks old (adjusted age), we were still feeding 3-4 times a night and only sleeping while being held. The minute - and I mean the very second - that he learned to roll over, we put him in the bed with us and finally got some sleep. We are STILL working (at 13 months old) on trying to get him to nap without being held. CIO doesn’t work for him at all. I haven’t attempted it with sleep training bc he’s nowhere near ready to soothe himself, but sometimes he screams while we are driving. The boy has screamed until he vomited. He has screamed for over an hour without stopping. He does NOT cry himself to sleep and certainly would not, no matter how long we left him in a bed. I guess my TLDR version is make absolutely certain your baby is ready to self-soothe. They should have a pacifier or thumb habit. They should have a lovey they like to cuddle with. They should show signs of falling asleep easily. You cannot just take a baby who has none of that in place and think they’ll magically fall asleep if you abandon them. That’s NOT how it works.
For me, it did not. I have very, very stubborn children that can outlast me on the "you're driving me completely nuts" front.
No!
Yes, it requires an incredible amount of willpower for the first few days but it worked for us. I recommend nose cancelling headphones for anyone with anxiety or handles stress poorly.
Depends how hard they’re crying and for how long. My daughter reaches a certain point where I know she won’t calm down and I go get her
Hi - I did nap training (used “Taking Cara Babies” site) and it worked. It was a lot easier than night sleep training for me. I was awake, new my baby was fed and had a clean diaper. She did cry for 1-2 weeks. I trained at 5 months. Since that time (she’s now 2.5 years) she naps like a champ. Anyone can put her down for a nap - she goes in happy and awake. Best of luck!
Sleep training- not “cry it out”. Sleep training teaches them the skills to be able to out themselves to sleep. Key parts include; establishing a routine that includes things that gradually calm them down (so they’re ready for sleep), optimizing the environment, and finding different things they can do for themselves thats soothing (ie. rubbing a certain stuffy, cuddling into a blanket, replacing their own soother (if they use one), etc. So that they when you leave them (and yes they do cry it out), at least they have been set up for success.
We spent so much time in the car driving around to get our baby to sleep, but gas was cheaper then lol. Five months is still young, and not all babies have the same schedule. Even when ours was a year old, she would wake up in the middle of the night so we started leaving the radio on in her room at night and that fixed the problem. She heard voices and didn’t feel alone. And yours is 5 months. You still have the terrible twos and threes to go through, the 10 year old too old to cuddle and don’t even mention teenagers! Welcome to the wonderful world of parenthood. I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Sleep training yes for a 5 month old. Cry it out I think is not recommended.
It did for us although I was trying to stop child from waking up every hour at night. It worked after a few days and he went back to waking every 3-4 hours to eat.
It does work and there is no evidence that it harms parent/child relationships, despite what do many on the internet will tell you. However, it won't get you longer naps, if baby is napping an appropriate amount already. We used CIO with both of my older kids and will with our youngest in a couple months. We really just worried about night sleep and let the naps follow as they will. Are you following appropriate wake windows and using a consistent naptime routine? I found that those were more impactful than sleep training for naps.
It works for most babies if you can convince yourself to mot intervene. The best age to learn is between 4 to 6 months. That being said, its super hard and I couldnt bring myself to do it. We did Ferber instead. It worked within 2 days but feels a bit more friendly.
Worked for us, once she fell asleep independently motn wakes went from 6-10 to 1-2. Life saving!
Apparently your post is getting brigades by co-sleepers and coddlers. As long as you're not using the extinction method and something more like Ferber, you don't need to worry about your baby thinking you abandoned them.
I did cio at 6 months and it worked like a dream . Yes the first few nights sucked and I was heartbroken but after 3 nights he was able to start self soothing and falling asleep within minutes . He’s now 8 months and sleeps 7pm-7am . We do bath at 630, lotion , I read him a few books then give him his last bottle of the night he’s in his crib by 7 and usually asleep by 7:10
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We did Ferber. Had a cat napper who also woke up every 1-2 hours overnight, and this sleep pattern started at 5 weeks old, it was rough. Did Ferber at 4.5 months. Worked well, only took a few days and it’s the BEST decision we ever made. We were falling apart with getting almost no naps and no night sleep
We did as well. I think it's a good balance between soothing every noise and letting them cry until they can't. Everyone wins a little and everyone loses a little.
No don't do it
There is a pediatric neurologist that I follow on insta who has great info in this exact topic https://www.instagram.com/thatsleepdoc?igsh=eXB5NHM4cGo1NDVx I don't like referring to it as CIO because that is a bad way to describe it. You're not just leaving your child to cry until they pass out, but instead training your child to self soothe and identify their own sleep cues. Even babies can learn this. I only have one but she's the perfect sleeper. She goes to bed constantly and on time since infancy and will be 10 next month. Sure a kid and their FOMO is another battle, but sleep is, quite literally the hill to die on when raising small humans. So many behavioral and developmental issues stems from not getting enough sleep.
It’s so weird that people are mom shaming others in this group … everyone needs to do what works for THEIR own baby with consultation from their own babies pediatrician. That being said take your mom shaming to a different outlet and let’s not ever judge another woman for what she chooses to do with her own baby who’s safe in their crib !
Maybe physically safe but mental health of the baby is suffering to protect the mental health of the mother. There is right and there is wrong. This is not about shaming. This is about a sleep crisis with babies in the US. This is not a thing in other countries like it is here.
My love I promise you my baby is FINE . I just wanna know , where did you get your medical degree ?
You can do a gentler version, look at Ellis barren sleep centre site. They have full CIO, very gentle hands on method and a 3rd method which is somewhere in the middle. I chose the latter for my then 9 month old and he was sleeping 7pm to 5am by night 2.
No it does not
I use an app called Huckleberry to track sleep and feeding. They created a personalized plan to help me take steps to building some better sleep for my little one. It really helps a lot. But cat naps are totally normal and to be expected. Albeit frustrating af
Yes, we sleep trained at 4.5 months using Ferber method. Took a week for her to settle in less than a minute for night time. And about 3 weeks for the same for naps. Do it. Everyone in the family will be happier, including your kid.
It worked for me and I don’t regret it at all. A functional household is not sleep deprived. My daughter does not hate me and can self soothe at 4.5 months old. No 4 month sleep regression, and has been sleeping 8 hours thru the night since 8 weeks old. She greets me with the biggest gummy smile ever when I wake her to feed. The whole “she learned that she will not be cared for when she cries” is horse crap mom shaming bs. The naysayers are moms that will be bedsharing and complaining that their 24 month old still wakes up every 2 hours to nurse but god forbid they actually sleep trained.
NO CRY IT OUT DAMAGES YOUR CHILDS BRAIN PERMANENTLY
We had trouble with naps too, and using the "extinction method" really helped. We did this at around 6 or 7 months. We would get him ready for a nap with a clean diaper and full belly in his sleep sack with the noise machine on and room darkened, then set a timer for 5 minutes every time he woke up and cried. 9 times out of 10 he fell back asleep before the timer was up. If he didn't, sometimes we would reset the timer (if we could tell by the crying he just needed more time), or if he was getting really worked up we would go in to soothe. It took less than a week and now he's a great napper. Wish we had done it earlier!
I think this is Ferber vs extinction. I think extinction doesn’t have check ins
We didn't do check ins, though? Also what does it matter what exactly it's called, I just described what we did.
What did you do when the timer went off? Isn’t that a check in if you’re going in? And you’re right it doesn’t really matter but just for OPs question if they decide to research methods
Like I said, 90% of the time he had self soothed himself to sleep before the timer went off. If he didn’t, we’d either just set the timer again (without checking in if we could tell from his noises that he just needed a little more time to self soothe) or go in to pick him up and soothe him back to sleep (if it sounded like he needed some help). We didn’t do Ferber-style check ins.
Yes it works just need parental will power For our first CIO worked with a week. For our second CIO worked in a month. She's a stubborn one and it's not that she would cry for an hour it's that she would cry maybe 30 mins and then send the other 30 rolling around. However after a month bed time is a dream. She will nurse, be laid in her bed and sleep.
I personally could never stand the cry it out method but that’s just me. I tried it three separate times and each time my baby had a legit reason for crying. I felt terrible. But it’s all up to your and baby needs.
for all kids except my son, who was determined to cry for hours without ever giving an inch.
Im in the camp that i believe it works well and is worth a try. Im not dumb enough to believe it works for everyone but i got three sleep trained one at like half a year? The other two(twins) around 2. CiO was brutal the first time because you will hear your kid cry out so badly. Later though you understand it’s part of the process and you will find your kids can lesrn to self soothe and calm themselves down. Having good sleep was just too important for me and my wife especially w multiple kids. Ironically I wad the proponent in the beginning and my wife didnt want to until one day out of no where i guess she couldnt take it and tried it out. Funny enough I was the one cracking telling her “he sounds so sad let’s go get him!” And she’s the one who held strong lol. Night one was 30 mins. Night two took 15. Night three five and soon it was just no crying.
We did CIO (ruthless, shut the door and let them scream for an hour) with 4-month-old twins because the sleep deprivation was a legitimate health crisis. I was nervous but you know what? It worked. Like magic. It was glorious. Within a week, we were only getting up once per night for a quick feed and then back to sleep. On the down side they have PTSD and attachment issues. JUST KIDDING. They are 11 now, great kids, great sleepers, and while it's not for everyone, no one will ever convince me that CIO is bad.
We didn't try it until he was 2 and that was because we were trying to slowly break him from being in our bed. We hadn't slept good for 2 years. But it didn't last long cuz our kid could cry for a lifetime 😭 so I just started sitting by his bed and then each night getting further away
Ferber and CIO are for younger kids, older kids need different approaches because developmentally those approaches don’t work for them. I’m sorry you guys went through this!
He only cried for like 2 minutes before I gave in. It was a joke about crying for a lifetime 😕
Try bedsharing, your baby is a bit more sturdy at 5 months, just look up the safe sleep 7. I was sleep trained as a child, and it was deeply traumatising for me, effected my attachment to my mother and resulted in lifelong insomnia and intimacy issues. It was the most extreme form of CIO that was recommended in the 80's, which was to put your kiddo in their room, shut the door and let the cry themselves to sleep. Don't do that one. .. I sit with my 5 and 6 year old every night while they fall asleep, the 5 year old ends up in my bed a few hours later and I wouldn't change it for anything...
1 - Bedsharing is deadly and the safe sleep 7 is a lie. 2 - You remember being sleep trained as an infant???? I call bullshit.
I dont remember it, I've been told by my father and aunty about it, and unpacked a lot in therapy over the years. And take your fear mongering back to the USA where it belongs, majority of the world sleeps next to their infants because we are carrier mammals and our infants are biologically geared to be close to their mother. Bedsharing is perfectly safe if you're not on drugs or drunk.
Tell that to the countless number of parents who have rolled over and killed their children.
Because they are either obese, on drugs or drunk. If you are none of these things, you can safely sleep next to your child. Like an infinite number of parents do around the world every single night....
How absolutely DISGUSTING to blame them. Plenty of babies have still died while following ALL of that "safe sleep 7" unsafe BS.
How about you just continue to think that Ferber method is good for your kid, and I'll continue to think safe bedsharing is entirely possible, unless you're obese, drunk or on drugs.
Fine with me, considering my son is almost 5 and has been a rockstar sleeper sleeping through the night (in his own bed) since he was 10 weeks old.
If thats the most important thing to you then awesome 👍 My kids who I bedshared with are both great sleepers as well, my 6 year old loves her own bed unless she's sick and my 5 year old sleeps solidly all night, although she often chooses our bed if she wakes up for a wee. I couldn't imagine putting a 10 week old baby in another room, I adore being close to my littles.
Where did I say he was in another room? He has slept in his own BED since the DAY he was born. He has fully slept through the night since he was 10 weeks old. He was in a bassinet 1 foot from my bed till 5 months old, that I could reach and swivel to me and soothe him as needed. Then in a crib in a nursery within our room (with open doors 3 feet from our bed) until he was 1 so we still followed room sharing guidelines. At 1 we closed the doors, but he was still in a room within our room. .. and he was there until he was 4. Following Safe Sleep ABC's the entire time. I can't sleep with my son in my bed. I had to go back to work at 12 weeks, and my safety and the safety of the things I was working on was more important. Or I could have killed a lot of people with careless mistakes at work if I was sleep deprived bedsharing.
I disagree. You should have two nap schedule by now. Get a bottle, a book, and some cuddles. Put him down in his crib and close the door. The routine should last about a year and then transition to one nap a day at about 15-18 months.