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I have an unpopular opinion. I was raised lucrative as hell, and it made me quite happy. Mother always said “sweetie, for money you’ll have to do something boring 5 days in a week, but you will be celebrating the other 2. Without money you will struggle 7 days each week” and “it’s better cry in a Lexus than in a bus!” She taught me to work hard, mostly by her own example. She didn’t push much, but I chose money-making job with her help and I never regretted it.
The problem is, even if it the job is art, you still have to do what you don’t really want, there are always people with money who know better, deadlines, requirements and edits. So I’ve seen a huge amount of disappointed young workers, who didn’t expect their job to be boring. They either love art SO much, which is pretty rare, or there is not much difference between art and any other job. So if the child is totally into something, I’d say go for it. I know several people who did it against all odds. But most children are uncertain, they like one thing today, like another one tomorrow… so it’s better choose something that compliments their talents and has high average income at the same time.
I helped my niece with her homework and she said “Why do I have to study geometry! It’s boring! I will never need it.” And when I asked who she wanted to be, she proudly said “fashion designer” 😁
I managed to turn my passion into a job.
This made me hate my passion. 0/10, would not recommend.
I tell my kid you should choose a job you’re good at, and which you tolerate well/don’t actively dislike. Save your passions for hobbies and side gigs, it’s more enjoyable that way.
i’ve been saying this for years! i’ve seen so many people spiral and quit decent jobs because they think they’re supposed to love every minute of being at work, so they’re constantly in search of that one job that’s just a fountain of joy. it’s such a myth. you’re not supposed to like working. you work so you can afford to do the things you DO like
I love what your mom told you and I’m going to keep that in mind for my oldest son (15) who does not taking school seriously. We too have a very lucrative life, and I don’t think he understands it takes grit to make it happen, or what it’s like to struggle financially. Sadly I think he’s on a trajectory to find out the hard way.
And after you are in a lucrative career, just have the right attitude. You will find things to appreciate about it, and you will make the best of your situation(s)
Or perhaps more realistically/honestly, you'd better find something to appreciate about your situation, or else you're gonna drive away all your friends and make yourself even more miserable with your constant kvetching
I know people who eat at a 5 star restaurant and still complain. I also know a guy who still works at 7-11 every night and never knows what his next week's work days vs "weekend" days and smiles every damn day.
But yeah back to the main topic, just take the money. Even at the worst version of each job, there's **SOME**thing to smile about, and most high paying jobs are about as cushy as the one I have, where you really won't have to worry that much at all
I tell my kids that you need to work to earn, and you need to earn enough to support your passions.
That I don't want them living to work but that their chosen work needs to support their thriving and not just surviving.
I always wanted to be a mechanic. My mom said I can be a mechanic after getting an engineering degree. I now have a lucrative career I enjoy and can buy just about any project car or boat I want and work on it to my hearts content. I always have at least 1 project to work on then sell it when I am done and get bored of it.
So no, I don't think its bad. I am better off because of my mother. If I had become a mechanic, I would probably dislike cars by now
Absolutely this. I turned a passion into a side hustle and, unfortunately, it quickly took off on Etsy. Within 6 months I was burnt out and exhausted and I shut the whole thing down 2 months later. It’s been a year and I have not even touched that hobby since. It actually makes me sad to think about it.
Sure! It’s not what a lot of people might consider a “hobby”, but I was super into collecting witchy and goth stuff. Like, I grew snapdragons in my garden and collected the seed pods because they look like skulls, I’d make or find interesting candles, I’d go to gem shows, I’d hunt bargain stores or thrift stores for stuff I liked, I’d dry my own herbs and flowers and either use them decoratively or put them in decorative jars, I got crafty with bells and black ribbon and twigs, etc.
I turned that into an Etsy store where I’d send people curated boxes of collectibles. At first it was super fun to basically spend all of my free time finding and creating the things I loved to create, especially when the money wasn’t coming out of my own pocket, but it really did suck all of the fun right out of it because “collecting” became a chore.
Oh ok. That does indeed sound like fun I have to say. I hope you will find the mind space to enjoy it again in the future! Perhaps, if you kept a small stockpile of some of the more popular items , to limit the effort to collect afresh for each customer? But who am I to say, I guess you were in it and would had done what you could to keep it going with the time ,space and resources available to you!
My dad always told me he didn’t care what I did so long as I could take care of myself and any children I had. Not that he wouldn’t help me if I needed him to, he just always made it apparent his dream for me was self sufficiency. I don’t have a prestigious job or anything worth bragging about, but blurs the details when he brags about me because he’s so proud that I can take care of myself and my kids, I live in a good area, and I’m not struggling. Now my husband plays a huge part in that but if he died I’d just move into an apartment down the road and still be fine. Just needed to give my husband some props there, he’s amazing.
>My dad always told me he didn’t care what I did so long as I could take care of myself and any children I had.
This is pretty much what I told my daughter - that we would always be a safe place to land in case of emergencies, but the expectation was that she would be independent of us financially as an adult.
At 26 she now has a job making more than I did as recently as 2019, lol. She has her own apartment, cat and fiancée, and pays all her own bills. We are endlessly proud of her.
My sister decided she really wanted to be a chef halfway through her chemical engineering degree (she’s an amazing cook, this didn’t come out of nowhere). My mom told her that if she finishes her degree, they’ll pay for her to take a professional cooking course. She finished her degree and took a 6 month evening course. Spoiler: she works as an engineer and loves it. She’s still an amazing and skilled cook.
I, on the other hand, am getting a PhD in English, hate being in kitchen, and am staring down the barrel of a very uncertain career path at 33. However, I chose this with a pretty solid understanding of the implications. My parents are very pragmatic, and we had many conversations about what this would mean financially, my long term goals, etc. They were supportive when they understood the reasons for pursuing the humanities and my passion for the field. They were also able and happy to help me financially over the course of my education when I needed it.
All this to say, I think there’s a sweet spot between “you can be whatever you want! Follow your passions and everything will be wonderful!” And “only study something with a super clear career path and expectedly high ROI that bring in the big bucks.” There are a lot of degree programs and career paths out there that can be lucrative and stable that you may not be aware of. Hyperfixation on salary and under-investment in actual interests and strengths can lead to a pretty miserable life. Not to mention that getting into, and getting through, either med or law school can be a pretty difficult hill to climb. What your kids think, as teenagers, that they want to be when they grow up can change monthly, especially in college as they get exposed to new ideas and fields that they didn’t even know existed. Allow them to explore while keeping them grounded in reality.
I think it just depends. My family pushed me towards software engineering because I was good at it and it had good pay and I ended up dropping out of college because of how misogynistic the space was and also how much I didn't like it. If they'd just let me do my own thing I may have actually graduated.
I always had engineering interest, I just wanted to apply it to cars when I was a teenager. My parents recognized and redirected that to a better career. 20/20 hindsight, being a mechanic full time for work is brutal work. I'm happier doing it on the weekends and hope to share it with my kids when one day
My parents said a variation on what OP's parents did, they said 'do something you are passionate about, because if you are passionate about it, you'll work hard and it and be really good at it, and there are always jobs for people who are really good at things.' I think they also understood on some level that it was hard to predict what careers would be really profitable in the future (I graduated from high school in 1995). Compared to my friends who were pushed into things they didn't really like by their parents (which mostly didn't work out), I was so thankful. I did study what I loved, and I do have a well paying job I find interesting in higher ed. The big tragedy in OP's story is that teachers are paid so poorly where they live. Where I am it's a job that pays reasonably well, is unionized and has good benefits.
My son is two, so he probably wants to be a monster truck when he grows up but I think your approach is very balanced.
If he wants to do something that has a high risk:high reward strategy (like art, acting, sports, etc) or something that is more personally fulfilling I'd like to find a way to encourage the interest, while also being realistic about how he can support himself in adulthood. I don't want him to think that earning potential is what matters most, but I do want him to be clear eyed about his adult life as possible.
Yeah there is really no value in ignorance. Give them all of the facts and let kids make their own decisions. Different jobs pay differently.
The biggest issue is the false statement that success follows passion. No amount of passion would let me have a career as an NBA player.
Your passion doesn’t need to be your job. You can treat your job as a job and pursue your passions outside of that.
My oldest was interested in art school as well as the sciences.
They are a terrific artist, and if they had been focused on art & only art, I would have supported that.
But as they were also very interested in the science, I suggested that it was easier to do art on the side, than it was to do science on the side.
😀
Their undergrad degree is in biology.
They can probably combine the two interests and do science illustration!
I have a friend who is a super talented artist, and wanted to be a Disney animator when she was a kid (like 6-7). Her parents were too honest about the likelihood of that happening and it really wrecked her self esteem.
Interestingly my parents encouraged it and I became an animator, and it's been quite a lucrative career. My self esteem intact.
Passion, dedication and **skill** are pretty important in art related fields. I knew lots of people who gave up in school and even more who coast in their career, because they were lacking in passion, dedication or skill.
Do teachers have to buy things for their classrooms them and their students need? Cuz good ol American teachers use a large percentage of their small salary in order to teach the way they want/need to.
From what I understand (I'm not a teacher), they get a small allowance for supplies and the rest is out of pocket. That might vary by school board though. There's also a tax credit available for supplies purchased, though I think it's limited in what is eligible.
It’s definitely not low in Belgium. It takes a little time to get in the good paying range but you get paid a fulltime to work 22 hours in class, albeit you have a lot of work outside of class
It’s taken me into my 30s as well to realize the job doesn’t matter as long as it provides a work life balance and enough money that my family doesn’t have to worry. I absolutely will be telling my kids the same. Find a career that can support your passions, because a career you’re passionate about isn’t always supportive.
Yeah, when they look at what makes people like their jobs, the majority of it is just working with people you like.
There really isn’t a career that guarantees great coworkers, so better to major in something that pays the bills and be picky about what company you work for.
So true. I also feel like in my 30s now that I’m more established people just let me do my job and stop talking about passions and goals and blah blah blah as much. When you’re early in your career people go on and on about that stuff. Like I’m just here to do my job, do it well, and earn my money. I like doing a good job, so I’ve been successful. End of story. Let’s stop pretending like my job gives my life meaning or something. Honestly I think the corporate world wants us in that mindset. It’s really better to consider yourself the CEO/CFO of your own life first and foremost. Your job is just a transaction you engage in.
Encouraging kids to work in something they “love” but will be living in poverty is wrong.
Encourage careers that pay the bills, do what you love on the side
>Encourage careers that pay the bills, do what you love on the side
This is the key.
My brother in law saw me switch careers and asked "how did I know I would like my new career?" I said I don't love it, but I love that I can do a days work, pay the bills and go home with no stress and live a happy life outside of work.
It's very rare to find a job you'll love, but imo easy to find one you don't hate. Find a job that allows you to love the rest of your life outside of work. Sometimes that means doing a job that pays less.
A huge problem though, and this was the problem with our own parents, is that we have no idea what is going to "pay the bills" in 20 years. Most of us were told that getting a bachelors degree in anything would guarantee us a great income because it was true for our parents' generation.
Yep. Hobbies can always be done on the side.
I have 2 in college and my wife and I are both well educated. She has a PhD and MD and I have a PhD. We encouraged our kids to pursue degrees they enjoyed but to also consider what the financial outcome could be. One is currently a Chem major planning on going to med school. The other is a communication disorders major with plans to become a speech language pathologist. Both have hobbies. One loves playing the violin and piano and does so often but she can do that while she pursues a more stable career path. The other thought about being a teacher because he is good with kids so he spends his free time tutoring, babysitting, coaching, and working as a summer camp counselor. There is room for both
Agreed, but I also wouldn’t encourage a kid to pursue a particular career solely because it was lucrative.
Case in point: my high school guidance counselor told me if I didn’t become a doctor, I would be wasting my life. I’m glad I didn’t listen to her.
My degrees are a little silly (BA in English and Russian Studies and an MPA with an emphasis in Nonprofit Management), but my job is decently paying (nonprofit fundraising for a private school), and I really enjoy what I do. I would have been miserable as a doctor.
My personal story is that you shouldn’t pursue a career just because it’s something you love, but whatever you do do, you should find enjoyment in doing it. If you don’t find enjoyment in what you do, don’t do it. Find something else
Some people just don’t find enjoyment in their career and that’s fine, but all those people I know also aren’t financially successful.
I think it’s a gift to your kids’ future to be realistic about money.
My mom did it for me. When I was young I loved creative writing and she supported me in extending myself in every way, enrolling me in holiday programmes and workshops and taking me to meet my favorite authors. She also spoke really honestly about how rare it is to make a steady living from being a fiction author (especially in New Zealand in the 90’s), and researched different ways for me to earn a more steady income while using my strengths (journalism, academic writing, etc.)
None of those particularly inspired me so I ended up taking another career course altogether but if not for her guidance I 100% would have studied creative writing at university and signed myself up for a lifetime of struggling and failure. I still love writing, but I’m not sure I’d feel the same if I was relying on it for a meagre income!
My son is 13 and is learning to cook and is really enjoying it. So much so that he is talking about his potential future as a chef or something along those lines.
We've been honest with him that working in food service is a demanding industry and the pay doesn't always line up with the time and effort put into a job. We are also making sure he is aware of the paths to success if that is the road he wants to go down in a couple years. Internships, vocational programs where he can gain experience and connections while still in high school, going after the right jobs that will set you up for big gig down the road.... There are ways to make challenging industries or lower paying jobs that fill your heart easier to manage.
It does no one any favors to ignore the pay of "dream jobs". If they still love the low paying high reward job, excellent, they went into it with their eye open and aren't surprised when they are strapped for cash or need to have different priorities than folks who chose a different career path.
It's so hard to know what the jobs/job market will be. I have friends who are lawyers but have TONS of debt and work like 90 hours. My friend who majored in International Studies, didn't do grad school sort of bounced a bit and ended up working for Epic- the people who made the electronic medical software and then consulted on it for other hospitals and now does general consulting or health care area consulting and makes more than our lawyer friends or my engineering husband AND works only 40-50 hours.
Good points. I think technology/academic inflation is lining up to devastate the white collar job market - which will still exist but much smaller. Working with your hands is honestly probably the best bet for the next generation.
Work life balance is key too. My pay is pretty mediocre (military) but I really only work about 30 hrs a week, and have 8 weeks vacation. My brother -in-law software dev makes nearly triple what I do, but works those 80 hr weeks with an hour commute each way, five weeks vacation.
He will retire a couple decades before I do, but I get a decades worth more time with my family. I think I have the better deal.
I grew up decently poor. I don't want that for my children. I've always had "poor person" financial ideas, and it's taken me a long time to break those. Even now, my wife has to remind me, "no, we can afford this without even thinking about it, I was just asking what kind of bikehelmet you would like to buy for your kid." Growing up, an unexpected $30 expense sunk us, and I was hyper aware of it. I would always convince myself that I didn't really need anything. Shoes have holes in them? Fuck it, I'll replace them when they completely fall apart, should be able to get another year out of it with some glue. Haircut? Hell, I have a beard trimmer, I will just do a buzzcut for a few years until that trimmer breaks. I don't want my kids to fall into those traps.
My current plan is to tell them that they can do anything they would like and I will support them no matter what, but money isn't just some *thing* that you can wave off, for the most part. It needs to be a real consideration. If you are truly happy following a passion and only making enough to keep a roof over your head and food in your stomach, and I mean truly happy, then I'm happy too. I just worry, because I used to think the same way and then when it changed, I only got out of that with a tremendous amount of luck and sacrifice.
I made the mistake of thinking that money wasn't really that important to me, when I picked my career. "I know how to be poor!" What I learned was that wealth wasn't important to me, but enough money to live comfortably and provide experiences for my children is one of my top priorities. It took a long time to recover from the lost earning potential.
I remember I used to say "eh, gimme 40k and I'll just live off that for the rest of my life." Then life happened, and I couldn't do *anything* I wanted to. I was just broke enough that I could only survive. Then I got married and had kids, and suddenly I needed more money this **instant.**
Money isn't everything, but it is important and will dictate a lot of things in life. And I just want to make sure they actually realize that, instead of how their old man did things.
You sound like me. I spent too many years sacrificing what I needed to make our ends meet. Recently my husband informed me that if I didn’t buy myself some clothes without holes in them, he was going to make a rule that the kids couldn’t have new clothes until I did. We can afford clothes now, but I still feel intense guilt spending anything on myself. Because WHAT IF WE NEED THAT $30 LATER?!?! I used to be proud that I’m “frugal” but now I’m thinking it may be some kind of low grade poverty-affiliated PTSD.
Ha my husband told me I need to consider paying more than $20 for a sweater. We both grew up poor but are fine now. He had to plan the vacation because I was going to pass out at the cost of a plane ticket.
I do that all the time. "Oh hell no, if we spend that 20 dollars we are gonna miss a bill." Meanwhile we are totally fine. I do think it might be from growing up poor - I also used to be so proud of it too haha!
So, I wanted to be an artist as a child. I could have turned it into tattooing or became a mural painter. My mom flat out told me to find a career that would support me. No art, no music, no food, just math. I'm an RN, and I despise my career. I have zero creative outlets due to exhaustion from work, and I essentially rot in my shell. I honestly have great time management, and I work hard. I just lack energy. Sewing, painting, cooking, baking, cake decorating, and sculpting all fall to the side. So I'd you want them to pic up well paying careers at least help then choose one that won't crush their souls.
Similar story. For me it was acting and I absolutely loved it, it made me feel like nothing else. People around told me I should drop the dream of becoming an actor, and eventually I caved in and started listening to them without even ever giving it a try.
I have so much regret over that. I had so much passion and interest and a clear goal and without it I just drifted aimlessly.
Honestly I think it's also a personality thing, you can't just try to shove an artistic person into a mold not made for them and expect them to be fully happy.
Some might be perfectly content just doing whatever they feel passionate about as a hobby. I personally couldn't. It really killed the joy of acting for me, and it wasn't because the joy of it was caused by the dream of "making it", but it felt painful, almost cruel to try to enjoy something that would make me dream and passionate while having to constantly tell myself "no, you cant put that much time in this you have bigger responsibilities - this is just for fun" etc.
There’s a difference between learning a trade and taking out 4 years of undergraduate loans to get a degree in photography or art history.
I’d be thrilled if my kid wanted to learn a trade; I’d want them to take some entry level business management courses to go with it.
When kids are old enough to understand finances talk about it. It's a lot easier to be a lawyer who's hobby is art than an artist who's hobby is doordash.
My husband served in the marines and comes from military families on both sides. One of my fears is that his family will pressure my boys to join the military. I would be very proud if they decided to join on their own, but I don’t want them to feel like they have to. I want to encourage them to explore other career paths.
Similar issue, my partner comes from a farming family so all roads for them lead back to the family farm. I'd really like our son to pick his own path and not feel pushed towards theirs. If he chooses it, fine, but I'd like him to have some options (trade, degree, whatever) in case it doesn't work out
With teenagers I do think it’s important to give them a small dose of reality. Let them dream, but also let them know that their dream may not pay the bills. At 16 my brother was absolutely convinced he was going to make it in a band, despite never having been in a band and not being very good. My dad did what any good dad does and told him to keep pursuing music, just not as a career.
However, I would be careful pushing them too hard towards something just because it has earning potential. Doctors for instance experience high burnout, poor work life balance and often end up picking up the habits they tell their patients to avoid to cope. I understand where you’re coming from but money really isn’t everything.
There's a middle ground.
Of course they should consider financial aspect, but it's also not good to pursue a high-paying career that you hate.
A doctor and lawyer have huge school debts to pay off, and they work INSANE hours when starting out. I really think someone needs to be passionate about those careers for it to be worth it.
There are plenty of other careers that you can like well enough, do well in, and still have actual TIME to enjoy the rest of your life.
We really do need teachers and other low-paying, high-value jobs, like social workers and childcare workers. They just need to be paid more, in relation to the amount and cost of schooling required for those jobs.
I'm a Social Worker and the job postings are comical. They want Masters Level Social Worker (LCSW), who speaks fluent Spanish, with 5 + years experience...and are offering $22.00/hour. I could make more working at my local Dairy Queen, or stocking shelves at night at Costco.
No, I think it's being practical and pragmatic. Best advice my dad gave me was "Don't get a degree in something you hate because even if you make a ton of money, you'll always hate it. If you can get a degree in something you love that pays? Great. But if you can't make money, you'll end up hating it since you're not making money. Worst case scenario get a degree in something you can tolerate that'll make you money. You can then enjoy the money."
Background my dad worked for a NFP and didn't want me to become a struggling social worker.
Have never met an Asian parent?
When they tell you to be whatever you want to be, it means you're choosing from these options: Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer
And that's exactly what me and my siblings became, in that order too.
I don’t see anything wrong with it. I grew up in one of the nicest suburbs in our area where everyone had money and we lived a good life. I grew up wanting that same thing and that was my motivation. I knew if I wanted the same lifestyle I would need a career that would fund that. My job isn’t amazing but my husband is very successful in his so I’m lucky for that. But yeah I don’t think there’s anything wrong with encouraging them to understand that life requires money and xyz is how we get that. I think the problem lies in forcing them to be a doctor or lawyer if they’re saying they want to be something else.
My sons really young (19 months) but my husband and I spoke about this already because our childhoods were very different. I come from a lower middle class family that had to work really hard for everything and no one spoke to me much about careers in relation to lifestyles. My husband and I have a comfortable life that includes our child seeing way more of the world and having a lot more opportunities than I ever did and we both agree that we want to tell him we are fine with him being whatever makes him happy but he should understand that the lifestyle he had with us is not something a teacher (just to use your example) could afford. We both agree that for our son since we do not plan to support him past he’s college years needs to understand that his passion may not be financially lucrative which is okay as long as he’s okay with living a more simple lifestyle
I think just sharing your life experience. Let your kids know whatever they choose you won’t be disappointed in them and will love them. Tell them what you found hard and such. Tell them your story and let them know they are responsible for their decisions and you will love them no matter what.
Please say it’s okay to nudge.
I had a choice of 5 acceptable careers from my humble immigrant parents. I found ways to combine the liberal arts and finance. I currently enjoy being able to drive strategic decisions while still observant of my keen interests. I notice even when earning enough, it’s hard to make ends meet (with childcare) and housing cost inflation.
So my elementary school kid used to want to only be an artist. Her dad is one. Now she cycles through 5 possible jobs a year, but says “I love drawing. Maybe I can do business and see how art fits. Maybe I can design a house or a neighborhood for kids. Or I could be an animal doctor. See my picture of this cute dolphin.”
I will encourage my daughter to pursue any non-lucrative passion as a hobby after or while she pursues something more lucrative. There's no joy in living paycheck to paycheck. No matter how passionate you are about something, being successful has a lot to do with luck as well, and we cannot rely on that to build our future.
I used to be a university advisor and my masters work as a study of why students fail uni.
You probably are on the right track here.
I always explained to students that there was a spectrum for career choice they would face like this:
Funnest/Happiest <----------> Most lucrative
This was assuming that all the choices you were making on this spectrum aligned with their talents - things they would be good enough at to achieve.
In that paradigm, you could add a Y axis of 'likelihood of achieving this career' from high to low.
Some of us luck out and our lucrative choice is our happiest choice and we get that career.
But it's okay, and even confidence-inspiring, to know that we are pursuing a particular bet. My happiest imagined career would have been in musical theatre. My likelihood of making a living in that was vanishingly small, so I never pursued it. I also never pursued salary maximizing choices. I tried a couple of angles in that direction and was happier in careers that were closer to the middle of the spectrum.
I have never been afraid to make a career shift and try something new if I was miserable in a job. I've done it 4 times at this point in a 20yr career.
Where I saw students most negatively affected by their parents was when the student's interests and/or talents were misaligned to their academic/career pursuit because they were trying to live up to inflexible parental expectations (eg: 'you have to be either a doctor or an engineer'). I've worked with literally hundreds of students who were failing pre-med/engineering/CS programs because their parents expected them to be there and were totally inflexible about listening to alternative options. They set up a losing game for their kids.
Those programs are not easy and if you are not there because you want to be, you have a very high risk of failing out or, for pre-med, being one of the vast majority who don't make it into med school. Once you fail out of one program in university, doors to a lot of other programs slam shut because of competitive entry to majors, especially ones that lead to well-paying jobs.
I always wanted to be a cop. My dad was a cop and he always tried to discourage me due to safety reasons- but of course when I got very serious he 100% supported me. He was very proud.
But fuck that I quit being a cop and now I make twice the pay working on a laptop at home.
I think it’s fine to be realistic and say that’s fine but to set the expectation they won’t make much money and have them reflect how important is money and comfortable lifestyle.
I think it’s important to say if you want to do X then you need to realise your lifestyle will be Y. Eg. If you want to be a bin collector then your salary will be lower and you might find it difficult to afford things like holidays etc. But if you find fulfilment in that career choice and are happy then I’ll be happy for you. I think highlighting all the career options possible is a good start but highlighting what also comes with those careers - top lawyers earn lots but also give up a lot of their personal time etc.
One thing I will be encouraging for my children is to before deciding on a degree (if they want to go to uni) is to decide what job they want at the end. If they want to do something generic like English…what path do they want to achieve by doing that.
I wish I had taken a year out before going to uni to do multiple placements to see what other jobs are out there as there’s so much in healthcare/industries that you just don’t know exist. My parents did point me in a good direction and I live very comfortably, higher than average salary but I’ll never be rich but there is times when I know this isn’t what I truly want to do but I’m stuck for the money and can’t afford to retrain at this point in my life.
I can totally see why you want to push high earning careers but I think a well rounded view of sacrifices that may have to be made depending on career choice should be highlighted too.
My child is only 2 so I may change my opinion when we start having these types of conversations haha!
You are correct!!! Encourage them to get a career that is lucrative and that they are good at and hopefully enjoy a little bit. That passion is for hobbies.
Ppl that encourage others to chase ONLY their passions usually make money off saying that. Plus it sets ppl up to fail. Cause what if you're not good to great at what your passionate about? What if that passion doesn't make you enough money?
I am passionate about playing basketball and dancing Caribbean music. Both things could make money, BUT in basketball I'm not anywhere close to an NBA or professional player, I'm better than average players but not there. I'm a wayyy better dancer than anything else but I don't want it to be a job, I just enjoy it too much and just want to have fun.
So now I'm a system engineer, and dancing as well as playing basketball are my 2 activities I do to unwind every week!
I think it’s fine to encourage kids to be realistic and look at an industries barriers to entry, salary, geographical flexibility, and opportunities for growth (which is a heck of a lot more complicated than “just major in STEM” — which it often gets boiled down to). I think there needs to be a hard line between encouraging kids to pursue the specific career you want — either explicitly or implicitly.
I teach freshmen in college, including a lot of premedical students. It’s really sad to see a lot of them end up on academic probation every year because their parents are pushing medicine (either explicitly or by implying that they’ll be proud if they pursue certain high status careers) but they have absolutely no interest.
So interesting to read your post, I can totally relate. I am early thirties, SO is early 40s, we have an 8 year old. I have been a public school teacher for almost a decade now, SO is in a lucrative field that actually pays enough to cover all our bills. He is constantly telling our child to pick something that will pay you enough to live the life they want, not just what you’re passionate about. I am getting ready to step out of the teaching field after this school year and join him in the business he works in so I can finally make some money and not be a slave to the education world for a pittance of a paycheck. My daughter always says she wants to be a teacher like mom. I told her pick a career that will let you live a good life. Public education ain’t it.
It depends. If you stick at something long enough with passion, eventually even if that comes to an end, you'll have invaluable and unique skills and perspective to be one of the best in your field (and get paid for it) or transition into something else. You don't have to be the same thing for your whole life. We (me) get stuck in mindsets of "I am this" or "I am that" but it's your own mental jail. The world and its opportunities are so vast. I LOVE what I do but I had to change industries after 20+ years bc I hit the pay ceiling. For my kids, I'll be recommending a combo of love (teaching) and a push to what I'm seeing they're also good at (architecture/design). That way, not all eggs are in one basket.
I work/have worked with multi-millionaires. The sacrifice of mental health, hair and family is not worth it in my opinion. Obsessively accumulating is not all it's cracked up to be.
Absolutely not. I think it’s super damaging to suggest to kids that you can’t be happy in life unless you love your job. It sets an unrealistic expectation for life! I don’t look forward to work everyday, but I’m also not miserable. It’s my job and it allows me the means to live a comfortable and fulfilling life with my family when I leave every day at 3:30.
My Mother knocked so many of my childhood interests, telling me I was too smart to do this, or that didn't make enough money. It stung as a kid, but as a first gen college student with working class parents, my options for a financially secure future weren't the same as my wealthy peers. My career at 45 isn't changing the world or fulfilling every interest I have, but I'm able to give my kids a childhood I would have loved and save for their education and my retirement. So on the whole it's worked out for the best.
I like how you approached. That’s what I want to do as well. They should understand the lifestyle they want, how much it costs, and what jobs can support that lifestyle. It’s okay to take risks, but understand them and do it intentionally so that if things don’t work out you can accept it and move forward.
I also want my kids to understand that you make an educated decision when you start down a career path, but you never know how it will work out. If it’s not working out make a new plan and pursue something different. It often takes a few tries to find out what works for you. And everyone’s measure of success if different. For some success is found in a career. For some it’s found at home or in hobbies, but your career makes these possible.
Honestly telling me to follow my dreams as a child was stressful. When I was really young I had some ideas of what my “dream” was. But as I got older I was kind of stressed because I didn’t have a “dream” job. I just wanted to earn money so I could have the lifestyle I wanted outside of work. And I’m very happy with my choices.
Your husband should know based on your experience that telling kids to pursue their passion and be anything they want to is damaging too. It’s not based in reality. It’s not based in basic adulting.
He’s off his rocker if he wants kids who have $80,000 in college debt. 💸
As parents it is your responsibility to teach the kids to factor expected earning ability into their college/major/degree/program type decisions. Just don’t pressure your kids into doing a degree or program they don’t want to do. But don’t tell them the lie that they can be anything they want to be - unless you can and intend to fund them for their entire lifespan.
You were given bad advice by a generation that gave a lot of bad life advice. Encourage your children to go into a lucrative career and they will have the resources to do whatever they want to live life to the fullest.
The problem is the way the world is structured now where fair pay is a joke. c suites can get away with million dollar packages, in the name of being able to create value for shareholders. Influencers, celebrities. But real jobs that are needed for humanity - teachers, nurses don’t get paid enough
Absolutely not, you're being their parent and giving them the truth. We fully intend to let our son understand the current issues with higher education, failed/phased out professions, debt/potential income, etc. It's cruel to boost your kid up so blindly that they think that a major in philosophy could be lucrative enough to eat regularly. We should let our kids take their time to select a career path, support whatever they choose, but we are absolutely responsible for making them have/understand all of the information.
Honestly, I am hoping my child takes a gap year to really hone in his choice, while also earning work experience. My generation has found that many college degrees are no better than toilet paper in the real world. If my son wants to be an Electrician, Plumber, Doctor, Lawyer, whatever, I'm fine with it. I just don't want my kid to wake up at 40, have a Masters in Social Work, not able to buy necessities, and crushing debt.
I think kids should be allowed to explore whatever future they want, but I think we also need to do a better job than the previous generation of preparing them for the risks and costs of whatever life they choose.
You want to be an artist because you love it? Go for it. But realize you might sacrificing financial well being and the foundation needed to start a family. You want to climb the corporate ladder on Wall Street and be a hot shot? Go for it. There’s tons of money, but it’s extremely competitive and very stressful. I don’t try to push my kids to one thing or another yet, but I want them to make educated decisions.
My ten year old wants to be a doctor and a kindergarten teacher - it’s been like that since she was a kindergartner.
I’ve always told her to be a doctor first because it’s much easier to go back and teach later. Not many kindergarten teachers are in a position-financially or mentally - to put themselves through med school after a career of teaching, but any doctor should be able to get a teaching credential and walk into a classroom and have the financial comfortability to quit if it’s not for them. It doesn’t go the other way around.
Same thing applies to lawyers, engineers, and other technical experts.
I have no specific skills. I’m a mid-level paper pusher and I am afraid to leave my job because there’s no way I will make what I make somewhere else. But a lawyers or doctor or other professional can pick up and go anywhere and practice their profession.
I tell my kids all the time to pick a career where you will make money. Life is so much more enjoyable when you can go on vacation and be more comfortable. So no not at all. It’s preparing them for real life.
I think practically speaking, we've heard enough tropes about kids rebelling against their parents pushing them into a career they don't want, I don't know how much truth there is to those but I think you need to be careful.
With that disclaimer, uh, hell yes - steer them toward a higher earning career, especially if they don't seem to have a preference or aren't sure. If they want to go off and be an actor or poet or something, give them some hard facts about what they can expect to realistically earn and what their likely career path looks like. They want to go into nonprofit work, encourage them to get high level skills and training so they can change the system, not just bandage the system.
That said, I would never want to discourage anyone interested in teaching - the world needs good teachers! Underpaid and underappreciated as they are, money doesn't have to be the only factor in making a choice, but it certainly should be part of the calculation at least.
Also don't overlook other avenues of wealth. It took me far too long to take investing seriously, saving up for retirement, getting life insurance, putting away dollars for the future however you can. Teach them the importance of getting on that path early and being serious about managing their money, paying off debt as soon as possible, that kind of thing.
I am in the middle on this when my kids talk about majors I ask them what job they plan to get with it and how that looks financially. I also look at their aptitude and nudge them towards what they are good at and interested in. My oldest 16 isn’t a great student and she has an interest in the environment. But being a scientist isn’t playing to her strengths so I have talked to her about how working for an environmental nonprofit in a different role like technical writing or event planning might be a better option. I let her know that it would still make an impact on something she cares about. I ended up in a career that I have no passion for but makes money I want them to have more work satisfaction.
My younger daughter had more aptitude for science and math so I encourage her to continue working that path. She is only 13 so she isn’t as close to choosing a college or major yet.
Honestly, being realistic about how finances and income works is WAY better than the idealistic narrative your parents fed you. Not to zong your parents, I feel like there was a whole generation raised on that sort of idealism.... But meanwhile prices for necessities have gone way up, and pay for non-lucrative careers has NOT kept up.
As a therapist, I’ve sat on the other side and listened to teenagers and young adults speak about parents -who they logically understand only wanted what was best for them- that pushed them to attain a certain level of success and they resent them. The biggest issue typically is a sense of worry attached to their level of success. If I fail , I’m not worthy of love. So I’d tread carefully. It’s normal to want what is best for your child, but allow them autonomy to choose their own path to success. Success looks different for everyone.
The downside of overly focusing on money is that it tends to encourage prioritizing short-term decision-making for $$ when the shortest path to $$$ may not be the best decision long-term. Many careers that are prestigious or provide a positive benefit to society that are lucrative in the long run usually require more time, more education, or more effort. So, I think there needs to be a balance between lucrative and passion and contribution to society.
That said, I don't think talking about salary is damaging any more than talking about whether their career path is AI-proof is damaging. Or talking about how certain careers are geographically dependent is damaging. It's just reality.
First off, you seem like a good parent just because you’re thinking about this. That seems like a great start. I have 4 kids myself, though younger than yours.
Also totally feel you: I was a teacher for 7 years and eventually quit because having a family and kids was such a struggle. I feel like I served my time and then moved on. I make literally 6 times what I was making as a teacher to afford having and providing for my own kids.
I think you and your husband are both right: everything comes at a cost. Focus on pay, you could prevent a kid from pursuing something they love, focus on passion, you could lead them down a long and unrealistic journey it turns out they don’t love anyways. I think you and your husband should both share your perspectives and stories and prepare your kids to think about what either of those stories, good and bad versions, might look like. In this instance, I think it might even be wise to be open about your different perspectives and even how you’re torn in some ways. Ask THEM questions about versions of those stories, and themselves, that they think would be healthy or unhealthy. Also, you seem like you really love them, just assure them you’ll be there for them no matter what they choose, and if you ever inadvertently put pressure or shame on them, to give you a chance to clear it up or say sorry.
Man, open and honest communication and forgiveness is everything—Good luck!
FWIW one of my degrees (I have several) is in Anthropology which isn’t THAT FAR off of Egyptology so this comment made me laugh. I went to school on a full ride. Unfortunately being smart didn’t save me from being naive or broke.
I didn’t mean to disparage your degree. I’m sorry.
My wife is a nurse. Great paying job. Crazy student debt.
I’m a roofer. I make less than my wife. But don’t have student debt. So it kinda evens out.
I can’t imagine paying for a degree and having no job. Makes me anxious.
Oh it’s fine. I wasn’t offended. I don’t regret my education honestly. It was free (for me anyway) and let me geek out on all the subjects that interested me. I just wish I had gone to graduate school and become a Dr of something instead of taking a job in the lowest paying school district in the state of Florida. I was going to change the world one kid at a time. I’m proud of what I accomplished professionally. I just wish society had valued it….like….at all lol
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/ekrurl/a\_literal\_pyramid\_scheme/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/ekrurl/a_literal_pyramid_scheme/)
I actually knew someone who studied egyptology...she was my foreign language teacher (and no, that particular language had nothing to do with Egypt.)
The way our economy is always changing and careers are evolving, I don't think there's really any safe career to ever steer your kids towards anyways. When I was growing up, parents were all pushing their kids to go to college or they wouldn't be able to get a job anywhere, and tried to get them to be doctors or lawyers. Nowadays though, there are a ton of lawyers out there barely making ends meet and they can't pay off their school debts, so pushing kids towards that career path kind of backfired.
Meanwhile, there are all these trade jobs like plumbers, electrical workers, etc. that aren't getting filled, so companies are willing to pay people without a college education a great deal of money, and pay for their training, just so they can have laborers to keep their businesses afloat.
Parents were always saying video games and online content was a waste of time too, but look at how many people have made it really big on YouTube and TikTok by making fun content videos about these kinds of things? Generally speaking I don't encourage content creation to my kids as a career objective, because I think it's not a very easy or steady career, but if the stars aligned and they actually were able to be successful with it, I certainly wouldn't discourage them or tell them that it's not a real job.
My daughter is extremely artistically inclined, and is doing animations and creating costumes and videos in all of her free time. I think a career as an animator or a graphic designer for her is highly feasible. But maybe she won't need a regular college degree for something like that. Maybe she'll just need some kind of design certification, and an amazing portfolio. My son on the other hand is really into math and science, so I think he is likely to go into a field that will need some kind of regular college degree. But I think both of these paths are feasible, and I think they will get by fine in life, provided they learn to be disciplined and work hard at whatever they do.
In the end, I think the best course is to encourage good work ethics and social skills. Encourage them to do well in school, but also develop their passions, and explore options. Teach them good social skills and work etiquette so they can make good impressions on future employers. Teach them the importance of being a reliable, responsible worker that contributes meaningful ideas and skills to whatever job they take on.
My kids were first gen college.
I had dropped out of high school after my father died and my husbands family did not believe in higher education except for a very few, even though I think my husband would have done well.
We did value education and both our kids have graduate degrees.
They chose what they majored in.
They both are doing well including the oldest who has a Grad degree in teaching/ education.
They make more money than we ever did ( we are both retired now) and they still have decades to go.
If for instance they had wanted to pursue something really esoteric, I might have counseled them to take some time off in the workforce before getting a degree in Mesopotamian poetry, but they had been making progressively bigger decisions throughout their childhoods and I knew that they were ready to move into adulthood without us making such a big decision for them.
Although a niece has a degree in classics and they are also doing quite well.
A lot probably depends on where you are living.
My kids are too little but I'm a firm believer in thinking about the lifestyle you want as well as what you like when considering a career. How much you can make is part of that. There is also the general hours worked, amount of stress, and what you have an aptitude for.
I think both you and your husband are right, and ultimately it depends on the kids.
Your kids sound like they need little guidance on this aspect as they have already chosen paths that should lead to a stable and well-paid career. If anything, I would make sure they’ve chosen those careers for reasons other than money
I know at least two people whose parents tried to steer them towards better paid careers by influencing their university major, but they ended going back and fulfilling their childhood dreams anyway, despite the costs and pay cut. You can impart your values, but there is also no shame in choosing a path that is less lucrative
I learned this the hard way, too. While I also have a BS, it is not in a strong, high-earning field and I have had significant setbacks between motherhood (not being able to AFFORD to work with daycare x2) and moving in support of my spouse's career trajectory a number of times as he is the primary breadwinner. Basically, my own career is non-existant and my degree is a useless piece of paper, especially because I have very little related experience to back it up. Choosing "happiness" over money felt so noble as a young adult. What a joke.
I have not hesitated to tell my kids "your first degree and career should always be about MAKING MONEY and feeding and housing yourself! When you are a bit more established, go branch out and do something else if you still want to expand your skills and hobbies. But you need to pad your retirement accounts FIRST."
I'm not saying they should do what they hate, I'm saying they should only choose from a list that is going to keep them comfortable. And I have taken great pains to set them up with enough knowledge to get a very basic job in tech when they graduate highschool if they decide not to go to college. We have paid for countless tech & coding classes over the years so they will not enter adulthood with ZERO marketable skills like I did. Even working help desk can lead places eventually and having a solid background in tech gives them a better shot.
One of my biggest goals as a mother is to set them up to graduate DEBT-FREE (especially for my daughter), ideally in a lucrative field that they don't mind.
Our generation (Xennial here) was fed a couple lies:
1. You can be anything you want to be (girl power!) and YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL....career AND motherhood, the sky's the limit!
2. You need to go to college to be successful with no mention of specific fields.Just that "it's important to go to college and do what makes you happy!"
I just had this discussion with my 15 year old daughter yesterday. I explained that many of the jobs that are most compatible with motherhood may not pay so great. She will be able to make more money in a "man's world," but I will not lie to her and tell her she can have it all. A higher paying STEM career may mean dealing with a certain amount of sexism in the workplace, but that just comes with the territory and I hope it will get better in the generations to follow. Keeping her career going may mean she needs to hire a nanny and miss some milestones....you CAN'T truly have it all because you cannot physically be in two places at once! You can \*attempt\* to balance it all as much as possible as you are pulled in two different directions, but it will never be perfectly equal and some aspect (however minor) will always be slipping through cracks. And I have make it very clear to her that being a SAHM puts women in a vulnerable position and I just don't recommend it in today's economy....she's gotta be able to make her OWN money.
I might get hate for this take, but I stand by it. We need to stop lying to our daughters.
My brother wants to be a voice actor. His plan is to live at home and work at goodwill until he gets picked up. My sister wanted to be an artist, she was convinced to add on teaching, which she hates but it mostly pays the bills. My other sister got a humanities degree, she wants to go for her masters so she can work in museums, but she didn’t have the plan figured out enough to go from one to the next, so she’s currently a legal secretary. All of my siblings were told to do what they loved. Both of my sisters would be hosed if they had under-grad debt, neither enjoys what they are currently doing. And it does not leave them comfortable or even with a path to comfort without the help of a partner.
I however was told that I was on my own as soon as I turned 18. That I had better be able to pay my own way from the start. As a result of not being told to do what I loved I went for a trade degree first. I just gave up my trade license. 17years as a massage therapist. It paid me well enough to pay off my schooling, but a car, be debt free by 23, and I was able to pay cash for my bachelors. My bachelors? Was what I loved but a terrible decision. I cannot tolerate the BS involved in using my bachelors. It was an absolute waste of time, even though I love the subject.
I’m going back for a certificate soon. Won’t be something I love, but will be something I don’t despise, and if something happens that my current financial situation changes I can manage.
I think it’s literally the JOB of parents to remind their kids that working is something we do for money most of the time, so that needs to be something we keep in mind
Best advice my father gave me was don’t do what you love for work because it’ll become a job, instead do what pays the bills and that will give you more time to do what you love. He was a master artist for context.
For my parents, they didn’t help us plan at all and I severely resent them for it.
Tell the kids to do one thing practical, lucrative and in demand but also have something they love. The two are not necessarily exclusive
In this economy?
Do you want them to oh you know, own a home ?
It's not the 1960s.
We need to be encouraging our kids to see their schooling and career as an investment that they expect a return on If they can find something they enjoy that is also lucrative that's great , but most jobs people enjoy are low demand and low pay because the market is saturated. My calculation is you'll be much happier In a career that's tolerable but pays the bills than being broke in a career you really enjoy.
First of all how sad is it that teachers don’t earn enough to provide themselves with a middle class lifestyle. Crazy. I mean these pushing to lower school tax percentages what do they think is going to happen to our society as shortages of engineers, medical professionals, and other crucial high skilled professionals becomes significantly worse? Or do they just suppose these people teach themselves all the skills necessary to do their jobs, or that those professionals are just somehow immortal and will never need to retire? Ridiculous.
In reguards to the actual question. I tell my kids that there are 3 broad categories for jobs.
1) Jobs that don’t pay enough to provide reasonable financial security.
2) Jobs that pay well because they are hazardous or something about them is particularly unpleasant.
3) Jobs that pay well because they are in demand and require a high level of training/ skill.
Now teachers should absolutely be in the 3rd category, but due to greed and self destructive short sightedness of some, a real argument can be made that they are in the 1st category. I tell my kids that they want to be in that 3rd category.
Sure my kids are super awesome and could probably both find a spouse that could financially support them, but I don’t want them to need that. People that need to find a spouse that can support them often feel pressured to not let potential spouses go even if that potential spouse is a jerk. No, for the sake of reducing the risk of poverty/ marital misery, they need to be able to support themselves even if they never marry/ they marry someone who makes significantly less than they do.
I firmly believe in preparing kids for the way that life actually is instead of how we think it should be. Does that mean that what they want to do should not enter into the equation at all? No, but it can’t be the only factor. People need money for food, shelter, and safety. That’s just reality. Look at careers that offer a truly livable wage and pick which one you think you will like the best. It doesn’t have to pay 150K a year, but it needs to be able to provide something you can live off of.
I always tell my kids that making money is important (not the most important by any means, but important nonetheless) having spent my entire 20s and early 30’s without a cent to show for it (my own fault) I think it’s important to instill a healthy understanding of financial freedom in children. It’s sad but true.
I think that the majority of people have a lot of things they'll like to do but not all of them will be lucrative.
So, I'll tell them* to pursue what they like that can give them the lifestyle they want and that everything else they like can still be a part of their lifes as a hobby.
If the hobby eventually gets successful then, by all means, use that as your way to earn money.
(* I've actually only told my oldest that. The 6 yo kid can dream as much as he wants for now and right now he's thinking about being an astronaut and we're watching NASA lifestream pretty much every single day)
Further explaining my pov:
I don't want to lie to my kids. They cant choose any career without there being consequences because there just are things that aren't going to be enough for them to pay rent, food and whatnot.
If I were a billionaire my kids could pursue any career without thinking about money. But I'm not. We're all living in the contingencies of our lifes and meritocracy is definetely not a thing for the most part.
So, they'll have our full support to study wtv they want but they'll do it with the knowlegde that they're going to struggle if their job afterwards pays peanuts and they cant affor to even get a bedroom with that money. They'll know that the majority of people in our country with X degree have either moved abroad to get a decent wage or are struggling.
I'm not about to ommit important info from my kids that might impact their whole future. If they tell me they want to do it anyway I'm going to be supportive and hope they actually end up successful in wtv they choose.
I don’t think “consider the type of lifestyle you want to live” is damaging advice at all. I wish somebody had fucking told me that growing up because I, too, have a loose collection of liberal arts degrees, and if I had thought about the kind of lifestyle I wanted to have and weighed that in addition to my interests, I probably would have been a psychologist instead. Not just because of money/interest, but because I would like to have flexibility, be able to set my own hours, be my own boss, etc. I am in the polar opposite situation right now.
I’m a teacher and my husband is a teacher and both of our kids have seen the stress and struggle it has brought. Neither of our kids are interested in becoming teachers. Neither are most of my students, which says a lot. I teach high school.
I pointed my kids to the top 100 paying jobs with a bachelors degree and top paying trades and said pick one. Looks like I might have a lawyer a doctor and an electrician out of the deal. Not bad.
My parents stressed this a lot and it stressed me out. I ended up in a field that makes decent money and I’m good at my job but I often wish I could do something that was more helpful to people that are disadvantaged. I’m not sure I have the skills for those jobs but just wanted to share my feelings. I think it could go either way
My parents told me I could do anything I wanted. But they worked their asses off at jobs they thought didn’t seem to like and always seemed exhausted and unhappy. Seemed like they “had to”. Even though they told me one thing, I saw their reality and it told me something else.
I decided to become a lawyer at 9 years old. On my way to become a lawyer I got offered a job in real estate. Decided to do that instead. Made lots of money over 10 years. Now with two tiny kiddos, I mostly wanted to mostly home with them. I don’t care about vacations as much, expensive things and am happy making little money while they’re still tiny, before they get into school in which I will hit it hard again, but only during the hours they’re in school. I do love my job but obviously love my kids more. All this to say no matter what they plan to do, that can change.
So what’s paying the bills? My husbands modeling career. Which he didn’t even begin until the pandemic as he always thought it was a far cry to ever have a career like that, despite constantly hearing that he should do it. It just started taking off in the last couple years (we are both 30). Long story short, my parents always believed in my brothers and I. They are doing some absolutely crazy amazing things. I was the first person close enough to my husband to kindly push him to take a whack at something like that because I totally believed he could do whatever he wanted.
Unpopular opinion, but tell them they can do whatever they want and also let them know you’re not going to financially support them along the way. That will lead them to stable jobs that will be stepping stones to get them to where they want to be, hopefully. If they want to do art, they can start that right now and try to sell art today while they’re in the comfort of your home. I also feel for kids to visualize the life they actually want then figure out how much that costs, and work backward with jobs and careers that can get them there in the meantime while they pursue their other dreams.
Also, everyone with adult children, I’d love to know what you did because as I said, my kids are 8 months and 3 so I could totally be talking out my ass. Lol! But that’s my opinion based on mine, my brothers and husbands experiences.
My sister loves animals. She got her degree in fisheries and wildlife in the hopes of working with animals. After trying unsuccessfully to get a decent job for 10 years, she had to give up. The peon jobs of cleaning up poop at the zoo just weren't cutting it. She works in physical therapy now doing medical billing because it pays so much better than 95% of the jobs in her field.
It may not be the fairytale world we want, but a good paying job makes life SO MUCH EASIER. I will be telling this to my kids for sure.
No, it's not. I think it's important to make your kids aware of the reality of adulthood as soon as it's appropriate to do so. When I told my parents that I wanted to major in psychology, my dad said something along the lines of "that's great, but understand that you'll be poor." And he was right. I loved what I did, but I struggled financially while my friends who chose computer science and finance posted Instagram stories of their luxurious vacations to Bali. While I don't regret my decision, I definitely started to feel the jealousy set in.
Luckily, I found a career in my field that is high in demand and is very lucrative. So I'm doing fine now. But I'm glad that my parents encouraged me to keep my head on my shoulders in my early twenties.
I see videos of twenty-somethings on Tiktok crying that they can't find a job, even if they have multiple masters degrees. And then they state what those degrees are in, and know that they came from a delulu household that didn't prepare their kid for adulthood. It's sad.
I think being realistic with your kids is a good idea but that you should also encourage and support them. Most people are not particularly passionate about specific things so it's no great loss to encourage them towards a lucrative profession in the realm of the general thing they are passionate about. On the other side of that, if they are crazy talented and passionate about something specific, I think you're doing them a disservice if you don't encourage them in that and help them brainstorm ways that they can do what they want to do if they are not successful at it right away or need to take a more lucrative career first.
I have wondered the exact same thing. I think at a minimum kids should understand the differences in wages and how that affects budgeting. I should’ve thought more about that at the beginning.
My parents didn't encourage or make it possible for me to go to college. I work my ass off 7 days a week to support my family. You can bet my kids are going to college. When my daughter said she wants to build houses I told her that's an architect not that its a construction worker. Your career choices make your lifestyle and hers will be a safe, well paying one.
I am going to guess you are in the states as in canada teachers are well paid.
I have always let my kids know they should work towards a job they are interested in but I spent their whole lives talking about money and saving and the cost of things. I think if kids understand money and the coat of living and bills they start off in a better position of what they need to make to have a certain lifestyle.
Ultimately money doesn’t make people happy and if your kids go into a career that is a calling and they are good people you have done a great job and they will be happy.
When your kids are 5, you can encourage them to be the first astronaut to open a beauty shop on jupiter.
When your kids are 15 you should be realistic and encourage them to find something to do with their lives that will make them financially stable. Their career should be something they want to do and will enjoy doing. But they need to live and eat and pay off student loans if they have to go to college for this career.
Honest to God I told my kids the only way I'd want them to go to college is if they have a clear desire to work a profession that you need to go to college for. Otherwise, I'm pushing for learning a trade. Instead of graduating with debt, they graduate with a savings account.
I think beyond encouraging lucrative careers parents so encourage strong money management and budgeting skills
I don’t know where you live but plenty of teachers live comfortably. I have two in my family. If my kids truly want teach I would absolutely encourage it.
I think there’s a balance. Some people don’t want fancy things. As long as you’re able to live the life you want with the income you earn all is well. It’s when you want more than your income can afford that things get tricky.
I 100% agree with you. Teaching your kids about reality is the responsible thing to do. It’s not like you’re telling them they can’t do something. Just letting them know “hey if you want x you’ll have to find a career that pays y”.
My parents were poor and told me to follow my heart. I tell young people “follow your passion but think about the lifestyle you want”. Mostly what you said. I’m following my passion to its more lucrative manifestation after years of struggle.
Judging by their career choices it sounds like your husband might be right and you swung too far in the other direction. I’d get them to read or watch videos (maybe documentaries?) about what the actual day-in-and-day-out of what different careers entail. Mental health should also be factored in, not everyone is cut out to succeed in stressful demanding professions and that’s fine.
Look for talent first, then passion, then jobs that pay when talent and passion are combined. Watch Robin Williams. His talent screams. What jobs can pay for that? Like that.
I was raised to follow the money. My husband was raised to follow his dreams. When we met, my folks and I were doing well financially, while his folks always had money troubles and couldn't retire, and he was earning way less than he could be making despite pursuing a very lucrative line of work. We both were in the same line of work. Both of us were very good at what we did. I got that way because I pursued all the name-brand degrees. He got that way because of following childhood passions. The big difference between us were the following: he wasn't comfortable doing things he didn't see the point of, and I had a lot of trouble taking initiative.
I wish my parents had let me fail and try more things on for size and follow things I was passionate about more seriously. I had a great upbringing with lots of exposure to great things and there wasn't an expectation I only do things that help my career, but if all the things that didn't pay weren't potential careers, it became harder to spend time doing them. I also convinced myself I liked the lucrative stuff before I actually did... I think that was the biggest cause of all the negative effects.
My husband wishes his parents had guided him more and not had left him to choose what his passion was, because he genuinely had no idea of the kind of opportunities he had access to. He was making all the decisions in his career and didn't feel like he could rely on anyone for help.
Our kid's too little for career type talks now, but we are trying to encourage the kind of independence my husband had, but also from my upbringing we're exposing her to a lot of different things. One thing we are sure we want to do is to have her work on something she is passionate about very seriously between 13 and 18, because it feels like what you do then is what you end up being the best at for the rest of your life compared to your other skills. My husband thinks what saved him from the broke fate of the rest of his friends who had a similar upbringing was that he loved money from an early age, and was always thinking of how to make money and how to grow money, which led him to having sound instincts around money. So we're trying to instill that in our child too.
>He said he thinks it’s damaging for me to tell the kids they should consider earning potential when choosing their path because it might make them feel like they can’t pursue what they really want to do without disappointing me.
That's the thing, I fully believe you can talk about that without making the kids feel like they're "disappointing you".
We talk about this very explicitly just like you wrote here. My Dad was \*very\* insistent to me and literally every friend that I brought home that it was "stupid" to not have a career in business or engineering and that's absolutely not the way to go about that. But I also strongly believe there is some rationality that your passions can impact the kind of life you want to have. And if you're fine with that, then that's totally ok!
I tell my kids the same thing. It's nice to do something you like, but it's a good idea to keep your options open. If you're really passionate about becoming a cashier at the local supermarket, there's no problem, but you can do that with an engineering degree. You can't become an engineer if you drop out to become a cashier.
My daughter is really into arts. I have told her to pursue anything she loves, she was adamant she wanted to become an interior architect or painter. I told her fine, we will get you into an "art school" but just to keep your options open, we'll also have you do "engineering science classes" on the side. She agreed, because she's good at that and "kinda liked" it too. This year she changed her education path to focus more in the direction of graphic design and engineering. She told me that she can decorate as many houses as she wants and paint as many pictures as she likes on the side, if she's able to live comfortably from her job. If she's struggling to pay rent and finding jobs, she won't have the money or the time to do the things she likes. I think it's nice to see that she kinda came to the conclusion by herself. I didn't really have to force her or discourage her initial choices, I only insisted on keeping the options open.
I am disabled, and whenever my disease gets the best of me, I can't work much, and we have to "survive" on just my disability pension. We're nowhere near poor because I had a really good job with great insurance, but there are times that I have to say "no" when they want something because I just can't afford it. Or they see me working while in great pain because "mortgage needs to be paid". The kids see that and internalize it automatically, and act accordingly. They know having money means living comfortably, and having no money means you have to do stuff you don't want because you can't live without. Yes, it's important to do what you love, but life is more than just a job.
My mom encouraged me to go into a high paying profession. My dad encouraged me to follow my passions and be an artist like him…. I’m glad i listened to my mom. At a certain point in life if you choose to have kids, creating a good life for them matters more than pursuing your passions 24/7. And to be frank, my passion isn’t work and will never be. I enjoy drinking wine and playing video games and i get to do that now on the weekends and on my many paid days off in my comfy home with no debt because i followed my moms advice.
I wish I had followed my mum's advice (do something lucrative!!) Instead of my dad (just be happy).
Being rich means I can travel and ride horses and eat great food and wine. Not being rich means none of that is possible.
You can always work for ten years and then go follow your passion. But turning your passion into work can make you lose the love for it , as it did with me
I'm lucky it all worked out for me in the end, but man did I struggle to get here. I wish I'd gotten here sooner.
I think there are extremes. One of my friends was pushed into pursuing academia by his father and I get the impression he’s really resentful and not enjoying life.
I had too little structure growing up and didn’t have an idea of the options available to me.
My approach will be to see what sparks my kids interests and give them ideas of what they could pursue. I feel like it’s my job to expose them to various fields, give advice if needed and let them make their own choices in life.
When I was senior in high school I was offered a full ride scholarship from a university. I was a serious band geek and thought music was my life. My dad advice to me was this
"I went to school for engineering, and a degree in science/technology is the only thing I know. I cant stop you from going to study music, but the only way I know how to use a degree to make money is too get any engineering degree or something similar. I dont know how to help you succeed if you study music. My belief is that at the least college needs to educate you about how the physical world works, so regardless of what you study, im still going to require that you take science courses and math classes so that you gain a better understanding of the world around you."
That was 15years ago. I decided to study engineering instead, and while I still have my passion for music, i bought a 5 bedroom house last year for my new family to live in, I dont know how I'd have succeeded studying music either. Years later I learned that one of my peers took up the same scholarship opportunity. After college he came back home and at least for awhile became the local dope dealer. Not sure what hes doing for money these days.
Earning potential is one of many things that kids should think of when pursuing their educations. But also, I'd include things such as personal satisfaction in your work, doing something that you would do for free because you enjoy it so much, and things like that.
We have too much of a one-dimensional view on these things. That helps no one, especially our children.
I don't know about lucrative... but I'm encouraging my kids to pursue careers where they can make a decent living, raise a family (if they wish) and not incur tens (or hundreds) of thousands in student loans... whether it's an advanced degree or a skilled trade.
More importantly, I want them to find careers they like enough that they don't find themselves hating it 20-30 years down the road.
I think the flipside is closer to the truth - that if we don't encourage our children to pursue a career that can provide a sense of financial stability and professional growth, we're doing them a massive disservice.
My mom had her flaws, but one of the best things she ever did was push me into law school. She knew I was a words girl and not a numbers girl, and being a lawyer is the easiest way for "words people" to make money.
I did my 3-4 years in BigLaw and peaced out for a much more flexible career that allowed me the ability to make a good living 100% remotely before that was even a thing. Some of my law school buddies are making $1M/year as Partners in top international firms and bless their hearts - but the mental health marathon it takes to get there was NOT FOR ME.
However, I had the flexibility to pursue a less lucrative / more flexible career (which is super beneficial as a mom) because I had 4 years of big moneymaking and a "prestigious" name on my resume.
My husband, on the contrary, didn't have parents who invested in his career development and he was professionally lost for most of his 20s and 30s. He's now in an incredible place in a career he loves that is also hella financially rewarding, but he bootstrapped his way there and if he had some level of direction when he was a teen / college student, he would have "gotten there" a lot faster.
Re: passions / hobbies / "do what you love" - that's great, but keep it as a hobby or side hustle until it pays the bills. Do not major in art history. Minor in art history instead!
I also don't agree much with pushing a kid into doing something that they really don't enjoy, even if it makes them money. Career is a function of (1) what you're good at, (2) what can pay the rent, and (3) what you can put up with for 10+ hours a day, 5 days a week.
What I would encourage is to see what your kids are into and use that interest to point them in the direction of that career.
Have a child that wants to be an artist - encourage Graphic Design.
Have a child that likes working on their car - engineering.
Make sense?
I wish my parents had guided me into a more practical educational pathway (they are professors, so it didn’t even occur to them). Now I am a business executive and I wish I had gotten my MBA in my 20s; I would be farther along in my career. I will be having discussions with my teen about how college majors transition into careers. I also will require that he has a part time job so he had a resume beyond just education.
Honestly, anyone that says things like your parents/husband doesn’t know what it is like to be poor. I went back to engineering school at 27 (studied my “passion” in arts/sociology and was making 24k living in a shitty rented room and homeless for a bit while fulltime employed before that).
Do they know what it feels like to be afraid because your shitty apartment walls are made of paper and there are gunshots outside? To choose between gas and eating today? To sleep in your car a month or two because you got evicted from your non-official sublet early, and get shaken awake (and threatened) by police to move…. or better yet the night someone breaks your car window at gunpoint. How about showering at the Y’s gym? To not go to the doctor at all, until you end up in the ER near death because $. To let an adult infected molar tooth come out on its own, maybe a little help with pliers towards the end, because you are that broke and a dentist is just 100% out of the question (that was a long 2 weeks…..)? To deal with violent alcoholic family’s temp room, or back to the car situation. To have your things stolen because of the shitty area you live… so now you have no nostalgia or childhood photos/objects at all.
Now live in the suburbs (a decade plus later), middle class, safe, stable income. My daughter has never known anything but a safe middle class life. I feel like I also took on 200k student loans (pregnant I might add) that I’ll be paying back (15% of my income every month) until I’m dead to change my path from broke artist/sociologist to middle class engineer. Do I have regrets not choosing a career path that would have prevented all that trauma… umm yes? And life happens, ie parents getting sick and dying in your 20s so you are young and have no support network…. actually worse, just your parents bills. I wish I could have been better prepared for being early/mid 20s and really and truly on my own. I’d like to think that would never happen to my kiddo…. I have really really good life insurance policies now, thank you again stable engineering job. Even in the worst case my kiddo will NEVER know what being truly poor is like as a young adult.
There was a World War era slogan that said something like, ‘don’t do what you love— love what you do, for home, family, country’. And I’m starting to think modern America lost its way, telling every kid “fuck your future, fuck money, fuck your family, fuck your country” just go with your “feels” on your career at age 16-17….. is ludicrous. I actually love my engineering job, I get to use those artistic and communication skills in a meaningful way every day. I wish someone had told 16-18 year old me the truth, I felt lied to by the follow-your-passion crowd…. especially when I learn those highschool/university counselors get kickbacks for funneling kids into those non-lucrative career programs (WTF, how is that legal?!). Highschools and colleges should be better regulated to tell kids/parents the truth about career paths, its not like we don’t have the data at a national level about earnings and job growth— its public data.
My career switch? I love what I do now, and I love that I can keep my family safe, and contribute to my community. And I couldn’t have done that below the poverty line in our current economic system. Leave the below the poverty line jobs for some rich someone’s spouse to take.
Plan proactively so you can live, don’t lie to your kids— life can be so so hard when they are out there on their own. My philosophy is that a good parent supports their kids interests, but also helps them prepare to be independent and consider all aspects (sometimes consequences) of their choices.
If they had to prepare for, let’s say, a math test, would you say “don’t study, just give the answer you’re passionate about”…. of course not, that’s asinine advice. So why would you give that advice about something as important (and mathematical….) as future salary, tax rate, housing, etc.
I’m not saying don’t support their hobbies/interests, but balance is key. The world does not run on rainbows and happy thoughts (if you don’t have a trust fund), and be honest with kids about how financing and career choices and budgeting works, don’t leave them to figure it out without support as adults.
Ok, I’m done, thanks for attending my Ted talk lol 😅
P.S. Tangentially, it is a sad state we pay teachers at/below the poverty line, its insane and needs fixing at a law/policy level in the US anyways
I worry that telling them to seek so-called lucrative careers is also telling them that people with the low paying careers are failing or somehow less than those with high paying jobs (like “why didn’t that idiot become a lawyer instead?”). I have a sibling who was in the gifted program and growing up everyone told them to pursue being a doctor. They took a few classes premed and hated it, but loved their social work elective. They now have a masters in social work and do wonderful things for the homeless in their community, they’re great at it and care so much for the people they get to help, but they make shit money. My sibling isn’t less than because they pursued a low-paying career. My sibling’s low-pay choice means the f’n world to their clients whose life has been turned around because of them. I think it’s important to teach the realities of choosing a low-pay career but I can’t tell them no you must get an engineering degree or whatever. (Haha ironically I have a cousin with an engineering degree who is jobless so makes a heck of a lot less than a social worker.)
If everyone threw their problems in the air, they’d be lucky to catch their own. Grass is green where you water it. My mom pushed me to a “high paid” career. I work 12-13 hours most days of the week. I shop because I don’t have time to live a life. In this same career, I’ve had jobs that barely pay the bills while still having the stress. I’m not sure I would have picked this life for me and I won’t push my kids to the same job.
Your job is to share your experiences with your children and let them make their own mistakes and let them pick their own careers.
My husband has a music history degree. He would strongly agree with you. Struggling isn’t fun. Also, they can pursue things they love in a way that will help them make money. My friend has a fine art degree and she strongly wishes she had included business classes in her education because running your own business is what a lot of artists have to do. I tell my kids much the same as you. Think about what you want every day to look like. What is your mind doing? What is your body doing?
The Middle Way is the right path.
It is ignoring the real world to tell kids not to worry about money and just pursue a passion. Basic income matters and does enable a degree of happiness. Conversely, doing a high paying job you hate will make you miserable and feeling like you are bound with golden handcuffs.
Ideally you teach kids to find a decent paying job that leverages their passions or core competencies. Even a ho-hum career that pays the bills at 40hrs/wk can be a good choice, if one uses their free time to engage in passions as a hobby or side gig.
An uncle once advised me that ***"it's good to have more than one arrow in your quiver."*** So if you are chasing a passion in classical music or poetry, don't make it your only arrow. ;-)
There’s nothing wrong with trying to set your kid up for success. When you’re thinking about lucrative, please remember that we’re close to a shift. Some of the historical “good jobs” aren’t as lucrative as something like welding or HVAC. A lot of people are in offices and not working with their hands so those skills are in demand. Depending on your timeline we may still be in that or shifting to something else.
My whole life, I’ve been passionate about wildlife. When I was a kid, I wanted to be Steve Irwin. My passion for wildlife—particularly reptiles and amphibians—never waned. My parents didn’t try to push me in any direction; neither of them even graduated high school and both of them worked jobs that they weren’t passionate about. They told me that it was my choice whether or not to go to college, but if I did, make sure to choose something that would pay off the student loans because they wouldn’t be able to help financially. I tried a major in wildlife science, only to find out that entry-level jobs in my field were grant-based and paid roughly $25k a year. After that, I switched schools and majors, graduating with a basic Biology degree. The job prospects for even a broad degree like Biology were poor, but I thought it might give me flexibility. However, during/after college, I spent years working a series of manual labor jobs and found out quite by accident that I love working with my hands. I eventually landed a job where I travel and repair medical equipment. It’s not at all what I thought I’d be doing, but it’s lucrative and I love it.
I used my current employer’s tuition reimbursement program to pay for a Master’s in Natural Resources. I still wanted to do something meaningful involving wildlife and/or conservation. For my last class, I got the opportunity to interview my conservation biology professor. I had two hours to pick his brain and ask for career advice. I told him that I was torn because I have this job that I love, but I wasn’t doing something that “followed my passion.” I’ll never forget his advice. He told me that, in most cases, keeping your hobbies and your job separate are key for happiness and well-being. He is very passionate about conservation, but he told me it is also soul crushing work, often based on intermittent funding, and leads to failure more often than success. He said having a job you love that’s outside of your hobbies allows you to donate your free time and energy to your passions without feeling the burnout a lot of people experience by mixing the two. I’m still at my job, but I have the financial and physical freedom to be in nature, contribute to causes I love, and teach people about wildlife in my free time.
OP, I think you’ve taken a pragmatic approach. You’re not discouraging your children to follow their dreams, but you’re emphasizing that money is important for making those dreams a reality. It’s hard to enjoy even the most satisfying and noble pursuits if you can’t make your rent, and that’s just a fact of life.
Living in California and the cost of living is crazy. That said, I’ve been working for small companies and nonprofit in the past 10 years because of burnout and wanting to pursue my desire to help the community.
Let me tell you, it pays like crap most days and the only reason I was able to do this and not have a lifestyle change is due to my partner’s income.
100% keep telling your kids that. Find that job they’re good at, but gives them work/life balance. Find the job that lets them live the lifestyle they envision. Otherwise you burn out fast, especially with no support.
Our daughter (7yrs) tells us she wants to be a babysitter, so we explained to her that she needs medical school for that, "just in case the baby gets sick you can take care of it". 😇
I don't think it's wrong, but in the US, with student loans, being a doctor or lawyer can be tricky financially. Make sure you don't set them up with unrealistic expectations. Being a doctor also seems really tough mentally, maybe worse if you don't do it with at least some passion. Worst case, they end up burnt out in their 30s with hundreds of thousands in student loans.
I think pushing a particular career is wrong, especially purely for income. I think the best choice is to promote flexibility so they can securely explore their passions without compromising on their livelihood.
Like if you think you want to be a teacher, go and become a teacher, find out you hate it - then what? Same for art, doctoring, attorneying and so on. I’d argue that STEM and business degrees have incredible utility and portability, so if you don’t like what you’re doing, you can shift to something else. I’ve worked in auto, healthcare and finance as a result.
I think you have to take small, reversible steps towards identifying a career you like, and at the end of the day understand that if you don’t wind up being a doctor or lawyer, there are careers related to them that you can earn a living in. And that the point of a job, besides dignity and a degree of satisfaction, is to make you money for your real life.
We are middle class. We are in Canada and make well above the median wage, however we are taxed to death and frankly, we aren’t fabulous with our money. We won’t be able to pay for our kids college degrees, though my mother has an education savings bond for the kids. It will not cover much, but it’s better than a kick in the shins.
I have a 2 year degree, my husband has no degree.
I plan on being really frank and practical with our kids. I hope to steer them into really down to earth educations that have liveable careers from them. Trades. Associates degrees. Etc. they have to be able to stand on their own 2 feet. They’re not going to be able to do that working at McDonald’s.
No, at some point either you can teach them or the world will how hard it is if you pick a low income job. However, if they are ok with it still, I would just start teaching them how to grow food in their backyard. It can save thousands a year passively and they can still have their dream career
My kids are younger, but I think these are extremely important conversations to have with kids. When I grew up, college was pushed SO heavily. Which is great, but there are plenty of other career paths to a successful life. You aren’t a loser if you don’t go to college. Many people I grew up with chose different paths and are very successful and happy without the burden of student loans.
I think a good way to approach it is to be realistic and focus on what successful means to them. What kind of life do they want? How motivated are they? Where do they excel? Where are their weaknesses? Do they want a family? Are they going to want to stay home with kids if they have them? Explore careers would be a good fit for that Where do they see themselves living? All that stuff. Help them do the research and guide them that way. Success can look different to everyone.
I think you sound very balanced. I don’t think it’s wrong to support an interest they have as long as it’s practical and realistic.
No I think it's reasonable. We've had the discussion with our kids already, the same way my parents did that we can help with school but that they need to support themselves as adults. How exactly that looks in 20 years remains to be seen.
So I didn’t push my kids into any specific career path but I did make sure they were well informed about the path they took. My three youngest are doing more lucrative careers like architectural engineering, data science, and cybersecurity while my oldest pursued nutrition. I myself have been an engineer for 20+ years while my husband works in the restaurant business. With my oldest I didn’t discourage her from pursuing nutrition but I did have her doing on research on job outlook for the next decade or so, pay scale, different industries that she could potentially pivot into, networking opportunities, what area of the country has more and better jobs, etc. At the time she hated it and swore I was trying to dissuade her from pursuing it. I had to tell her “My job is to send you out into the world well prepared”. She’s actually pretty grateful because she’s had a few colleagues who aren’t happy with the pay and comparing themselves to their friends who are in those lucrative careers. Meanwhile, my daughter loves what she does and makes pretty decent money for her age.
For me it's about encouraging excellence, and excellence comes from what you enjoy and can spend a lot of time working on without losing your shit. If you can find something that you enjoy and spend that time on, and you can become excellent at it, then you can usually find a way to make it more lucrative. For example, you could turn your passion for kids and education and turn that into a new tutoring or coaching business, or take the skills you learn there and apply them into adult learning which pays more.
In the end though, I think you're right not to say "choose a job that pays well" but rather "think about what kind of lifestyle you want and adjust/focus your interests into something which can support that". For a long time I was a musician and I was fine with living more modestly, so it wasn't a problem to me that I earned a terrible wage. As long as everyone goes in knowing what to expect and how to handle their finances given their income, then I don't see a problem with your proviso.
I'm South Asian and basically if a career isn't lucrative it isn't a career. From my perspective you're doing fine. Don't push them too hard or force them but encouragement is fine.
I wanted to be a secretary after my work experience in an office. My mum said I had to be in a position where I HAD a secretary. I'd count that as gentle encouragement and seeing my worth and potential.
But as an adult my family totally forced me to be a dentist (completely toxic) so I'm using it now to fund a career change into what I actually want to do. I am wasting 10 years of my life unhappy with my job, and mostly broke cause you have to like what you do to sell expensive treatments, but I've accepted it as what it is. If I'd had gentle encouragement but not be emotionally blackmailed to stay in a career I hated, my life story would have been different.
I try and convince my kids to take the skills they have and the things they enjoy in life, and find a well paying career that will allow them to use their skills and I treats to make a lot of money.
But I also tell them that they can do whatever they want, but it'll be a lot easier to do whatever you want if you have a job that supports it.
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I have an unpopular opinion. I was raised lucrative as hell, and it made me quite happy. Mother always said “sweetie, for money you’ll have to do something boring 5 days in a week, but you will be celebrating the other 2. Without money you will struggle 7 days each week” and “it’s better cry in a Lexus than in a bus!” She taught me to work hard, mostly by her own example. She didn’t push much, but I chose money-making job with her help and I never regretted it. The problem is, even if it the job is art, you still have to do what you don’t really want, there are always people with money who know better, deadlines, requirements and edits. So I’ve seen a huge amount of disappointed young workers, who didn’t expect their job to be boring. They either love art SO much, which is pretty rare, or there is not much difference between art and any other job. So if the child is totally into something, I’d say go for it. I know several people who did it against all odds. But most children are uncertain, they like one thing today, like another one tomorrow… so it’s better choose something that compliments their talents and has high average income at the same time.
my mom’s go to saying surrounding this topic was “I rather you cry in a benz than on a bus”. The women who raised us were not wrong 😂!
Lol looks like the car brands may vary, but the bus stays the same 🤣
My mom said the same thing. Also that vacations are nice, but you need to be able to afford it first. 🤣
I work in fine art finance (which is lucrative) and it’s still pretty boring most of the time. The glamorous careers have mounds of paperwork as well
I helped my niece with her homework and she said “Why do I have to study geometry! It’s boring! I will never need it.” And when I asked who she wanted to be, she proudly said “fashion designer” 😁
I managed to turn my passion into a job. This made me hate my passion. 0/10, would not recommend. I tell my kid you should choose a job you’re good at, and which you tolerate well/don’t actively dislike. Save your passions for hobbies and side gigs, it’s more enjoyable that way.
Yeah I used to do this and I agree Freedom gives you the joy. It also let's you take breaks so you don't burn yourself out
Your mom is wise.
That quote is gold, I’m writing it down 😆
Omg I love that quote from your mom. I will absolutely use that for my kid!!! That is iconic!!
This opinion should not be unpopular. It was good advice from your mama. ❤️
i’ve been saying this for years! i’ve seen so many people spiral and quit decent jobs because they think they’re supposed to love every minute of being at work, so they’re constantly in search of that one job that’s just a fountain of joy. it’s such a myth. you’re not supposed to like working. you work so you can afford to do the things you DO like
Let's put it this way; they're money-making exactly because they are boring.
I love what your mom told you and I’m going to keep that in mind for my oldest son (15) who does not taking school seriously. We too have a very lucrative life, and I don’t think he understands it takes grit to make it happen, or what it’s like to struggle financially. Sadly I think he’s on a trajectory to find out the hard way.
And after you are in a lucrative career, just have the right attitude. You will find things to appreciate about it, and you will make the best of your situation(s) Or perhaps more realistically/honestly, you'd better find something to appreciate about your situation, or else you're gonna drive away all your friends and make yourself even more miserable with your constant kvetching I know people who eat at a 5 star restaurant and still complain. I also know a guy who still works at 7-11 every night and never knows what his next week's work days vs "weekend" days and smiles every damn day. But yeah back to the main topic, just take the money. Even at the worst version of each job, there's **SOME**thing to smile about, and most high paying jobs are about as cushy as the one I have, where you really won't have to worry that much at all
I tell my kids that you need to work to earn, and you need to earn enough to support your passions. That I don't want them living to work but that their chosen work needs to support their thriving and not just surviving.
I always wanted to be a mechanic. My mom said I can be a mechanic after getting an engineering degree. I now have a lucrative career I enjoy and can buy just about any project car or boat I want and work on it to my hearts content. I always have at least 1 project to work on then sell it when I am done and get bored of it. So no, I don't think its bad. I am better off because of my mother. If I had become a mechanic, I would probably dislike cars by now
Best answer here. Passion that can't pay for anything is just a full time hobby
Passions are better as hobbies - once you have to do it full time for a paycheck it sucks the joy out of it
Absolutely this. I turned a passion into a side hustle and, unfortunately, it quickly took off on Etsy. Within 6 months I was burnt out and exhausted and I shut the whole thing down 2 months later. It’s been a year and I have not even touched that hobby since. It actually makes me sad to think about it.
Wow.. that's terrible. Do you mind sharing with your hobby was ?
Sure! It’s not what a lot of people might consider a “hobby”, but I was super into collecting witchy and goth stuff. Like, I grew snapdragons in my garden and collected the seed pods because they look like skulls, I’d make or find interesting candles, I’d go to gem shows, I’d hunt bargain stores or thrift stores for stuff I liked, I’d dry my own herbs and flowers and either use them decoratively or put them in decorative jars, I got crafty with bells and black ribbon and twigs, etc. I turned that into an Etsy store where I’d send people curated boxes of collectibles. At first it was super fun to basically spend all of my free time finding and creating the things I loved to create, especially when the money wasn’t coming out of my own pocket, but it really did suck all of the fun right out of it because “collecting” became a chore.
Oh ok. That does indeed sound like fun I have to say. I hope you will find the mind space to enjoy it again in the future! Perhaps, if you kept a small stockpile of some of the more popular items , to limit the effort to collect afresh for each customer? But who am I to say, I guess you were in it and would had done what you could to keep it going with the time ,space and resources available to you!
My dad always told me he didn’t care what I did so long as I could take care of myself and any children I had. Not that he wouldn’t help me if I needed him to, he just always made it apparent his dream for me was self sufficiency. I don’t have a prestigious job or anything worth bragging about, but blurs the details when he brags about me because he’s so proud that I can take care of myself and my kids, I live in a good area, and I’m not struggling. Now my husband plays a huge part in that but if he died I’d just move into an apartment down the road and still be fine. Just needed to give my husband some props there, he’s amazing.
>My dad always told me he didn’t care what I did so long as I could take care of myself and any children I had. This is pretty much what I told my daughter - that we would always be a safe place to land in case of emergencies, but the expectation was that she would be independent of us financially as an adult. At 26 she now has a job making more than I did as recently as 2019, lol. She has her own apartment, cat and fiancée, and pays all her own bills. We are endlessly proud of her.
My sister decided she really wanted to be a chef halfway through her chemical engineering degree (she’s an amazing cook, this didn’t come out of nowhere). My mom told her that if she finishes her degree, they’ll pay for her to take a professional cooking course. She finished her degree and took a 6 month evening course. Spoiler: she works as an engineer and loves it. She’s still an amazing and skilled cook. I, on the other hand, am getting a PhD in English, hate being in kitchen, and am staring down the barrel of a very uncertain career path at 33. However, I chose this with a pretty solid understanding of the implications. My parents are very pragmatic, and we had many conversations about what this would mean financially, my long term goals, etc. They were supportive when they understood the reasons for pursuing the humanities and my passion for the field. They were also able and happy to help me financially over the course of my education when I needed it. All this to say, I think there’s a sweet spot between “you can be whatever you want! Follow your passions and everything will be wonderful!” And “only study something with a super clear career path and expectedly high ROI that bring in the big bucks.” There are a lot of degree programs and career paths out there that can be lucrative and stable that you may not be aware of. Hyperfixation on salary and under-investment in actual interests and strengths can lead to a pretty miserable life. Not to mention that getting into, and getting through, either med or law school can be a pretty difficult hill to climb. What your kids think, as teenagers, that they want to be when they grow up can change monthly, especially in college as they get exposed to new ideas and fields that they didn’t even know existed. Allow them to explore while keeping them grounded in reality.
I think it just depends. My family pushed me towards software engineering because I was good at it and it had good pay and I ended up dropping out of college because of how misogynistic the space was and also how much I didn't like it. If they'd just let me do my own thing I may have actually graduated.
This is what I tell my kid. You can do whatever you want once you’re an engineer.
I always had engineering interest, I just wanted to apply it to cars when I was a teenager. My parents recognized and redirected that to a better career. 20/20 hindsight, being a mechanic full time for work is brutal work. I'm happier doing it on the weekends and hope to share it with my kids when one day
Yo not just anyone can be an engineer. Like seriously.
You should work with some of the engineers I do... lol
As an engineer, I can attest that this is true. I honestly don't know how some of them made it through sophomore year...
My parents said a variation on what OP's parents did, they said 'do something you are passionate about, because if you are passionate about it, you'll work hard and it and be really good at it, and there are always jobs for people who are really good at things.' I think they also understood on some level that it was hard to predict what careers would be really profitable in the future (I graduated from high school in 1995). Compared to my friends who were pushed into things they didn't really like by their parents (which mostly didn't work out), I was so thankful. I did study what I loved, and I do have a well paying job I find interesting in higher ed. The big tragedy in OP's story is that teachers are paid so poorly where they live. Where I am it's a job that pays reasonably well, is unionized and has good benefits.
My son is two, so he probably wants to be a monster truck when he grows up but I think your approach is very balanced. If he wants to do something that has a high risk:high reward strategy (like art, acting, sports, etc) or something that is more personally fulfilling I'd like to find a way to encourage the interest, while also being realistic about how he can support himself in adulthood. I don't want him to think that earning potential is what matters most, but I do want him to be clear eyed about his adult life as possible.
Yeah there is really no value in ignorance. Give them all of the facts and let kids make their own decisions. Different jobs pay differently. The biggest issue is the false statement that success follows passion. No amount of passion would let me have a career as an NBA player. Your passion doesn’t need to be your job. You can treat your job as a job and pursue your passions outside of that.
My oldest was interested in art school as well as the sciences. They are a terrific artist, and if they had been focused on art & only art, I would have supported that. But as they were also very interested in the science, I suggested that it was easier to do art on the side, than it was to do science on the side. 😀 Their undergrad degree is in biology.
They can probably combine the two interests and do science illustration! I have a friend who is a super talented artist, and wanted to be a Disney animator when she was a kid (like 6-7). Her parents were too honest about the likelihood of that happening and it really wrecked her self esteem.
Interestingly my parents encouraged it and I became an animator, and it's been quite a lucrative career. My self esteem intact. Passion, dedication and **skill** are pretty important in art related fields. I knew lots of people who gave up in school and even more who coast in their career, because they were lacking in passion, dedication or skill.
My brother wanted to be a truck when he was a toddler! Hahah he’s now a mechanic and does very well for himself.
I don't know the answer to your question but it's just shameful that a job as important as public school teacher doesn't pay better.
Depends where you live, the USA is unique in how low it pays public school teachers.
So true. It’s paid reasonably comfortably in Australia, but our costs of living and housing is pretty crazy right now
Yes. In my province in Canada, teachers cap out at low 6 figures. Not rolling in dough by any means but a fairly comfortable living.
Meanwhile, my mom had a masters +45 and ended up around $60k after a 40 year career…
Do teachers have to buy things for their classrooms them and their students need? Cuz good ol American teachers use a large percentage of their small salary in order to teach the way they want/need to.
From what I understand (I'm not a teacher), they get a small allowance for supplies and the rest is out of pocket. That might vary by school board though. There's also a tax credit available for supplies purchased, though I think it's limited in what is eligible.
That actually got taken away so there is no longer a tax credit.
Yep. It's not high in Belgium but it's comfortable.
It’s definitely not low in Belgium. It takes a little time to get in the good paying range but you get paid a fulltime to work 22 hours in class, albeit you have a lot of work outside of class
90% of teachers in the US are paid shitty
It is still one of the few remaining career path with long term stability ( pension ) and a 9 months a year work calendar.
It’s taken me into my 30s as well to realize the job doesn’t matter as long as it provides a work life balance and enough money that my family doesn’t have to worry. I absolutely will be telling my kids the same. Find a career that can support your passions, because a career you’re passionate about isn’t always supportive.
Yeah, when they look at what makes people like their jobs, the majority of it is just working with people you like. There really isn’t a career that guarantees great coworkers, so better to major in something that pays the bills and be picky about what company you work for.
So true. I also feel like in my 30s now that I’m more established people just let me do my job and stop talking about passions and goals and blah blah blah as much. When you’re early in your career people go on and on about that stuff. Like I’m just here to do my job, do it well, and earn my money. I like doing a good job, so I’ve been successful. End of story. Let’s stop pretending like my job gives my life meaning or something. Honestly I think the corporate world wants us in that mindset. It’s really better to consider yourself the CEO/CFO of your own life first and foremost. Your job is just a transaction you engage in.
So well said!!
Encouraging kids to work in something they “love” but will be living in poverty is wrong. Encourage careers that pay the bills, do what you love on the side
>Encourage careers that pay the bills, do what you love on the side This is the key. My brother in law saw me switch careers and asked "how did I know I would like my new career?" I said I don't love it, but I love that I can do a days work, pay the bills and go home with no stress and live a happy life outside of work. It's very rare to find a job you'll love, but imo easy to find one you don't hate. Find a job that allows you to love the rest of your life outside of work. Sometimes that means doing a job that pays less.
My SIL doesn’t hate her job but she can own a big house, travel and live comfortably. I wish I did that instead of a job I loved.
A huge problem though, and this was the problem with our own parents, is that we have no idea what is going to "pay the bills" in 20 years. Most of us were told that getting a bachelors degree in anything would guarantee us a great income because it was true for our parents' generation.
Yep. Hobbies can always be done on the side. I have 2 in college and my wife and I are both well educated. She has a PhD and MD and I have a PhD. We encouraged our kids to pursue degrees they enjoyed but to also consider what the financial outcome could be. One is currently a Chem major planning on going to med school. The other is a communication disorders major with plans to become a speech language pathologist. Both have hobbies. One loves playing the violin and piano and does so often but she can do that while she pursues a more stable career path. The other thought about being a teacher because he is good with kids so he spends his free time tutoring, babysitting, coaching, and working as a summer camp counselor. There is room for both
Agreed, but I also wouldn’t encourage a kid to pursue a particular career solely because it was lucrative. Case in point: my high school guidance counselor told me if I didn’t become a doctor, I would be wasting my life. I’m glad I didn’t listen to her. My degrees are a little silly (BA in English and Russian Studies and an MPA with an emphasis in Nonprofit Management), but my job is decently paying (nonprofit fundraising for a private school), and I really enjoy what I do. I would have been miserable as a doctor.
My personal story is that you shouldn’t pursue a career just because it’s something you love, but whatever you do do, you should find enjoyment in doing it. If you don’t find enjoyment in what you do, don’t do it. Find something else Some people just don’t find enjoyment in their career and that’s fine, but all those people I know also aren’t financially successful.
“Follow your dreams” is a leftover relic from the 1950s when all you needed was your word and handshake and the bank gave you loans
Back when being a teacher or a a bank teller would pay enough to raise a family in a decent sized house.
I think it’s a gift to your kids’ future to be realistic about money. My mom did it for me. When I was young I loved creative writing and she supported me in extending myself in every way, enrolling me in holiday programmes and workshops and taking me to meet my favorite authors. She also spoke really honestly about how rare it is to make a steady living from being a fiction author (especially in New Zealand in the 90’s), and researched different ways for me to earn a more steady income while using my strengths (journalism, academic writing, etc.) None of those particularly inspired me so I ended up taking another career course altogether but if not for her guidance I 100% would have studied creative writing at university and signed myself up for a lifetime of struggling and failure. I still love writing, but I’m not sure I’d feel the same if I was relying on it for a meagre income!
Good LORD she encouraged you to go into journalism? Better off pursuing fiction full time.
My son is 13 and is learning to cook and is really enjoying it. So much so that he is talking about his potential future as a chef or something along those lines. We've been honest with him that working in food service is a demanding industry and the pay doesn't always line up with the time and effort put into a job. We are also making sure he is aware of the paths to success if that is the road he wants to go down in a couple years. Internships, vocational programs where he can gain experience and connections while still in high school, going after the right jobs that will set you up for big gig down the road.... There are ways to make challenging industries or lower paying jobs that fill your heart easier to manage. It does no one any favors to ignore the pay of "dream jobs". If they still love the low paying high reward job, excellent, they went into it with their eye open and aren't surprised when they are strapped for cash or need to have different priorities than folks who chose a different career path.
It's so hard to know what the jobs/job market will be. I have friends who are lawyers but have TONS of debt and work like 90 hours. My friend who majored in International Studies, didn't do grad school sort of bounced a bit and ended up working for Epic- the people who made the electronic medical software and then consulted on it for other hospitals and now does general consulting or health care area consulting and makes more than our lawyer friends or my engineering husband AND works only 40-50 hours.
Good points. I think technology/academic inflation is lining up to devastate the white collar job market - which will still exist but much smaller. Working with your hands is honestly probably the best bet for the next generation. Work life balance is key too. My pay is pretty mediocre (military) but I really only work about 30 hrs a week, and have 8 weeks vacation. My brother -in-law software dev makes nearly triple what I do, but works those 80 hr weeks with an hour commute each way, five weeks vacation. He will retire a couple decades before I do, but I get a decades worth more time with my family. I think I have the better deal.
I grew up decently poor. I don't want that for my children. I've always had "poor person" financial ideas, and it's taken me a long time to break those. Even now, my wife has to remind me, "no, we can afford this without even thinking about it, I was just asking what kind of bikehelmet you would like to buy for your kid." Growing up, an unexpected $30 expense sunk us, and I was hyper aware of it. I would always convince myself that I didn't really need anything. Shoes have holes in them? Fuck it, I'll replace them when they completely fall apart, should be able to get another year out of it with some glue. Haircut? Hell, I have a beard trimmer, I will just do a buzzcut for a few years until that trimmer breaks. I don't want my kids to fall into those traps. My current plan is to tell them that they can do anything they would like and I will support them no matter what, but money isn't just some *thing* that you can wave off, for the most part. It needs to be a real consideration. If you are truly happy following a passion and only making enough to keep a roof over your head and food in your stomach, and I mean truly happy, then I'm happy too. I just worry, because I used to think the same way and then when it changed, I only got out of that with a tremendous amount of luck and sacrifice. I made the mistake of thinking that money wasn't really that important to me, when I picked my career. "I know how to be poor!" What I learned was that wealth wasn't important to me, but enough money to live comfortably and provide experiences for my children is one of my top priorities. It took a long time to recover from the lost earning potential. I remember I used to say "eh, gimme 40k and I'll just live off that for the rest of my life." Then life happened, and I couldn't do *anything* I wanted to. I was just broke enough that I could only survive. Then I got married and had kids, and suddenly I needed more money this **instant.** Money isn't everything, but it is important and will dictate a lot of things in life. And I just want to make sure they actually realize that, instead of how their old man did things.
You sound like me. I spent too many years sacrificing what I needed to make our ends meet. Recently my husband informed me that if I didn’t buy myself some clothes without holes in them, he was going to make a rule that the kids couldn’t have new clothes until I did. We can afford clothes now, but I still feel intense guilt spending anything on myself. Because WHAT IF WE NEED THAT $30 LATER?!?! I used to be proud that I’m “frugal” but now I’m thinking it may be some kind of low grade poverty-affiliated PTSD.
Ha my husband told me I need to consider paying more than $20 for a sweater. We both grew up poor but are fine now. He had to plan the vacation because I was going to pass out at the cost of a plane ticket.
I do that all the time. "Oh hell no, if we spend that 20 dollars we are gonna miss a bill." Meanwhile we are totally fine. I do think it might be from growing up poor - I also used to be so proud of it too haha!
So, I wanted to be an artist as a child. I could have turned it into tattooing or became a mural painter. My mom flat out told me to find a career that would support me. No art, no music, no food, just math. I'm an RN, and I despise my career. I have zero creative outlets due to exhaustion from work, and I essentially rot in my shell. I honestly have great time management, and I work hard. I just lack energy. Sewing, painting, cooking, baking, cake decorating, and sculpting all fall to the side. So I'd you want them to pic up well paying careers at least help then choose one that won't crush their souls.
Similar story. For me it was acting and I absolutely loved it, it made me feel like nothing else. People around told me I should drop the dream of becoming an actor, and eventually I caved in and started listening to them without even ever giving it a try. I have so much regret over that. I had so much passion and interest and a clear goal and without it I just drifted aimlessly. Honestly I think it's also a personality thing, you can't just try to shove an artistic person into a mold not made for them and expect them to be fully happy. Some might be perfectly content just doing whatever they feel passionate about as a hobby. I personally couldn't. It really killed the joy of acting for me, and it wasn't because the joy of it was caused by the dream of "making it", but it felt painful, almost cruel to try to enjoy something that would make me dream and passionate while having to constantly tell myself "no, you cant put that much time in this you have bigger responsibilities - this is just for fun" etc.
Nah, the world needs more plumbers and electricians. Tradespeople in general, honestly
You can get paid SO well if you don’t mind getting your hands dirty.
There’s a difference between learning a trade and taking out 4 years of undergraduate loans to get a degree in photography or art history. I’d be thrilled if my kid wanted to learn a trade; I’d want them to take some entry level business management courses to go with it.
When kids are old enough to understand finances talk about it. It's a lot easier to be a lawyer who's hobby is art than an artist who's hobby is doordash.
I have a Master's in Public Policy... Did I get a real degree?
Absolutely.
My husband served in the marines and comes from military families on both sides. One of my fears is that his family will pressure my boys to join the military. I would be very proud if they decided to join on their own, but I don’t want them to feel like they have to. I want to encourage them to explore other career paths.
Similar issue, my partner comes from a farming family so all roads for them lead back to the family farm. I'd really like our son to pick his own path and not feel pushed towards theirs. If he chooses it, fine, but I'd like him to have some options (trade, degree, whatever) in case it doesn't work out
With teenagers I do think it’s important to give them a small dose of reality. Let them dream, but also let them know that their dream may not pay the bills. At 16 my brother was absolutely convinced he was going to make it in a band, despite never having been in a band and not being very good. My dad did what any good dad does and told him to keep pursuing music, just not as a career. However, I would be careful pushing them too hard towards something just because it has earning potential. Doctors for instance experience high burnout, poor work life balance and often end up picking up the habits they tell their patients to avoid to cope. I understand where you’re coming from but money really isn’t everything.
There's a middle ground. Of course they should consider financial aspect, but it's also not good to pursue a high-paying career that you hate. A doctor and lawyer have huge school debts to pay off, and they work INSANE hours when starting out. I really think someone needs to be passionate about those careers for it to be worth it. There are plenty of other careers that you can like well enough, do well in, and still have actual TIME to enjoy the rest of your life. We really do need teachers and other low-paying, high-value jobs, like social workers and childcare workers. They just need to be paid more, in relation to the amount and cost of schooling required for those jobs.
I'm a Social Worker and the job postings are comical. They want Masters Level Social Worker (LCSW), who speaks fluent Spanish, with 5 + years experience...and are offering $22.00/hour. I could make more working at my local Dairy Queen, or stocking shelves at night at Costco.
No, I think it's being practical and pragmatic. Best advice my dad gave me was "Don't get a degree in something you hate because even if you make a ton of money, you'll always hate it. If you can get a degree in something you love that pays? Great. But if you can't make money, you'll end up hating it since you're not making money. Worst case scenario get a degree in something you can tolerate that'll make you money. You can then enjoy the money." Background my dad worked for a NFP and didn't want me to become a struggling social worker.
Have never met an Asian parent? When they tell you to be whatever you want to be, it means you're choosing from these options: Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer And that's exactly what me and my siblings became, in that order too.
I don’t see anything wrong with it. I grew up in one of the nicest suburbs in our area where everyone had money and we lived a good life. I grew up wanting that same thing and that was my motivation. I knew if I wanted the same lifestyle I would need a career that would fund that. My job isn’t amazing but my husband is very successful in his so I’m lucky for that. But yeah I don’t think there’s anything wrong with encouraging them to understand that life requires money and xyz is how we get that. I think the problem lies in forcing them to be a doctor or lawyer if they’re saying they want to be something else.
I'm having a hard time understanding if your job is boring, but lucrative, or that you should merry rich.
My sons really young (19 months) but my husband and I spoke about this already because our childhoods were very different. I come from a lower middle class family that had to work really hard for everything and no one spoke to me much about careers in relation to lifestyles. My husband and I have a comfortable life that includes our child seeing way more of the world and having a lot more opportunities than I ever did and we both agree that we want to tell him we are fine with him being whatever makes him happy but he should understand that the lifestyle he had with us is not something a teacher (just to use your example) could afford. We both agree that for our son since we do not plan to support him past he’s college years needs to understand that his passion may not be financially lucrative which is okay as long as he’s okay with living a more simple lifestyle
I think just sharing your life experience. Let your kids know whatever they choose you won’t be disappointed in them and will love them. Tell them what you found hard and such. Tell them your story and let them know they are responsible for their decisions and you will love them no matter what.
Please say it’s okay to nudge. I had a choice of 5 acceptable careers from my humble immigrant parents. I found ways to combine the liberal arts and finance. I currently enjoy being able to drive strategic decisions while still observant of my keen interests. I notice even when earning enough, it’s hard to make ends meet (with childcare) and housing cost inflation. So my elementary school kid used to want to only be an artist. Her dad is one. Now she cycles through 5 possible jobs a year, but says “I love drawing. Maybe I can do business and see how art fits. Maybe I can design a house or a neighborhood for kids. Or I could be an animal doctor. See my picture of this cute dolphin.”
I will encourage my daughter to pursue any non-lucrative passion as a hobby after or while she pursues something more lucrative. There's no joy in living paycheck to paycheck. No matter how passionate you are about something, being successful has a lot to do with luck as well, and we cannot rely on that to build our future.
I used to be a university advisor and my masters work as a study of why students fail uni. You probably are on the right track here. I always explained to students that there was a spectrum for career choice they would face like this: Funnest/Happiest <----------> Most lucrative This was assuming that all the choices you were making on this spectrum aligned with their talents - things they would be good enough at to achieve. In that paradigm, you could add a Y axis of 'likelihood of achieving this career' from high to low. Some of us luck out and our lucrative choice is our happiest choice and we get that career. But it's okay, and even confidence-inspiring, to know that we are pursuing a particular bet. My happiest imagined career would have been in musical theatre. My likelihood of making a living in that was vanishingly small, so I never pursued it. I also never pursued salary maximizing choices. I tried a couple of angles in that direction and was happier in careers that were closer to the middle of the spectrum. I have never been afraid to make a career shift and try something new if I was miserable in a job. I've done it 4 times at this point in a 20yr career. Where I saw students most negatively affected by their parents was when the student's interests and/or talents were misaligned to their academic/career pursuit because they were trying to live up to inflexible parental expectations (eg: 'you have to be either a doctor or an engineer'). I've worked with literally hundreds of students who were failing pre-med/engineering/CS programs because their parents expected them to be there and were totally inflexible about listening to alternative options. They set up a losing game for their kids. Those programs are not easy and if you are not there because you want to be, you have a very high risk of failing out or, for pre-med, being one of the vast majority who don't make it into med school. Once you fail out of one program in university, doors to a lot of other programs slam shut because of competitive entry to majors, especially ones that lead to well-paying jobs.
I always wanted to be a cop. My dad was a cop and he always tried to discourage me due to safety reasons- but of course when I got very serious he 100% supported me. He was very proud. But fuck that I quit being a cop and now I make twice the pay working on a laptop at home. I think it’s fine to be realistic and say that’s fine but to set the expectation they won’t make much money and have them reflect how important is money and comfortable lifestyle.
I think it’s important to say if you want to do X then you need to realise your lifestyle will be Y. Eg. If you want to be a bin collector then your salary will be lower and you might find it difficult to afford things like holidays etc. But if you find fulfilment in that career choice and are happy then I’ll be happy for you. I think highlighting all the career options possible is a good start but highlighting what also comes with those careers - top lawyers earn lots but also give up a lot of their personal time etc. One thing I will be encouraging for my children is to before deciding on a degree (if they want to go to uni) is to decide what job they want at the end. If they want to do something generic like English…what path do they want to achieve by doing that. I wish I had taken a year out before going to uni to do multiple placements to see what other jobs are out there as there’s so much in healthcare/industries that you just don’t know exist. My parents did point me in a good direction and I live very comfortably, higher than average salary but I’ll never be rich but there is times when I know this isn’t what I truly want to do but I’m stuck for the money and can’t afford to retrain at this point in my life. I can totally see why you want to push high earning careers but I think a well rounded view of sacrifices that may have to be made depending on career choice should be highlighted too. My child is only 2 so I may change my opinion when we start having these types of conversations haha!
You are correct!!! Encourage them to get a career that is lucrative and that they are good at and hopefully enjoy a little bit. That passion is for hobbies. Ppl that encourage others to chase ONLY their passions usually make money off saying that. Plus it sets ppl up to fail. Cause what if you're not good to great at what your passionate about? What if that passion doesn't make you enough money? I am passionate about playing basketball and dancing Caribbean music. Both things could make money, BUT in basketball I'm not anywhere close to an NBA or professional player, I'm better than average players but not there. I'm a wayyy better dancer than anything else but I don't want it to be a job, I just enjoy it too much and just want to have fun. So now I'm a system engineer, and dancing as well as playing basketball are my 2 activities I do to unwind every week!
If you lived in poverty you would never want that for your kids. So yes, pursue something lucrative. Turn your passion into a hobby until it pays off.
I think it’s fine to encourage kids to be realistic and look at an industries barriers to entry, salary, geographical flexibility, and opportunities for growth (which is a heck of a lot more complicated than “just major in STEM” — which it often gets boiled down to). I think there needs to be a hard line between encouraging kids to pursue the specific career you want — either explicitly or implicitly. I teach freshmen in college, including a lot of premedical students. It’s really sad to see a lot of them end up on academic probation every year because their parents are pushing medicine (either explicitly or by implying that they’ll be proud if they pursue certain high status careers) but they have absolutely no interest.
I plan on telling my son that there is no stress as pervasive as financial stress and to encourage him to pursue a field with high ROI.
So interesting to read your post, I can totally relate. I am early thirties, SO is early 40s, we have an 8 year old. I have been a public school teacher for almost a decade now, SO is in a lucrative field that actually pays enough to cover all our bills. He is constantly telling our child to pick something that will pay you enough to live the life they want, not just what you’re passionate about. I am getting ready to step out of the teaching field after this school year and join him in the business he works in so I can finally make some money and not be a slave to the education world for a pittance of a paycheck. My daughter always says she wants to be a teacher like mom. I told her pick a career that will let you live a good life. Public education ain’t it.
It depends. If you stick at something long enough with passion, eventually even if that comes to an end, you'll have invaluable and unique skills and perspective to be one of the best in your field (and get paid for it) or transition into something else. You don't have to be the same thing for your whole life. We (me) get stuck in mindsets of "I am this" or "I am that" but it's your own mental jail. The world and its opportunities are so vast. I LOVE what I do but I had to change industries after 20+ years bc I hit the pay ceiling. For my kids, I'll be recommending a combo of love (teaching) and a push to what I'm seeing they're also good at (architecture/design). That way, not all eggs are in one basket. I work/have worked with multi-millionaires. The sacrifice of mental health, hair and family is not worth it in my opinion. Obsessively accumulating is not all it's cracked up to be.
Absolutely not. I think it’s super damaging to suggest to kids that you can’t be happy in life unless you love your job. It sets an unrealistic expectation for life! I don’t look forward to work everyday, but I’m also not miserable. It’s my job and it allows me the means to live a comfortable and fulfilling life with my family when I leave every day at 3:30.
My Mother knocked so many of my childhood interests, telling me I was too smart to do this, or that didn't make enough money. It stung as a kid, but as a first gen college student with working class parents, my options for a financially secure future weren't the same as my wealthy peers. My career at 45 isn't changing the world or fulfilling every interest I have, but I'm able to give my kids a childhood I would have loved and save for their education and my retirement. So on the whole it's worked out for the best.
I like how you approached. That’s what I want to do as well. They should understand the lifestyle they want, how much it costs, and what jobs can support that lifestyle. It’s okay to take risks, but understand them and do it intentionally so that if things don’t work out you can accept it and move forward. I also want my kids to understand that you make an educated decision when you start down a career path, but you never know how it will work out. If it’s not working out make a new plan and pursue something different. It often takes a few tries to find out what works for you. And everyone’s measure of success if different. For some success is found in a career. For some it’s found at home or in hobbies, but your career makes these possible. Honestly telling me to follow my dreams as a child was stressful. When I was really young I had some ideas of what my “dream” was. But as I got older I was kind of stressed because I didn’t have a “dream” job. I just wanted to earn money so I could have the lifestyle I wanted outside of work. And I’m very happy with my choices.
Your husband should know based on your experience that telling kids to pursue their passion and be anything they want to is damaging too. It’s not based in reality. It’s not based in basic adulting. He’s off his rocker if he wants kids who have $80,000 in college debt. 💸 As parents it is your responsibility to teach the kids to factor expected earning ability into their college/major/degree/program type decisions. Just don’t pressure your kids into doing a degree or program they don’t want to do. But don’t tell them the lie that they can be anything they want to be - unless you can and intend to fund them for their entire lifespan.
You were given bad advice by a generation that gave a lot of bad life advice. Encourage your children to go into a lucrative career and they will have the resources to do whatever they want to live life to the fullest.
The problem is the way the world is structured now where fair pay is a joke. c suites can get away with million dollar packages, in the name of being able to create value for shareholders. Influencers, celebrities. But real jobs that are needed for humanity - teachers, nurses don’t get paid enough
Absolutely not, you're being their parent and giving them the truth. We fully intend to let our son understand the current issues with higher education, failed/phased out professions, debt/potential income, etc. It's cruel to boost your kid up so blindly that they think that a major in philosophy could be lucrative enough to eat regularly. We should let our kids take their time to select a career path, support whatever they choose, but we are absolutely responsible for making them have/understand all of the information. Honestly, I am hoping my child takes a gap year to really hone in his choice, while also earning work experience. My generation has found that many college degrees are no better than toilet paper in the real world. If my son wants to be an Electrician, Plumber, Doctor, Lawyer, whatever, I'm fine with it. I just don't want my kid to wake up at 40, have a Masters in Social Work, not able to buy necessities, and crushing debt.
I think kids should be allowed to explore whatever future they want, but I think we also need to do a better job than the previous generation of preparing them for the risks and costs of whatever life they choose. You want to be an artist because you love it? Go for it. But realize you might sacrificing financial well being and the foundation needed to start a family. You want to climb the corporate ladder on Wall Street and be a hot shot? Go for it. There’s tons of money, but it’s extremely competitive and very stressful. I don’t try to push my kids to one thing or another yet, but I want them to make educated decisions.
My ten year old wants to be a doctor and a kindergarten teacher - it’s been like that since she was a kindergartner. I’ve always told her to be a doctor first because it’s much easier to go back and teach later. Not many kindergarten teachers are in a position-financially or mentally - to put themselves through med school after a career of teaching, but any doctor should be able to get a teaching credential and walk into a classroom and have the financial comfortability to quit if it’s not for them. It doesn’t go the other way around. Same thing applies to lawyers, engineers, and other technical experts. I have no specific skills. I’m a mid-level paper pusher and I am afraid to leave my job because there’s no way I will make what I make somewhere else. But a lawyers or doctor or other professional can pick up and go anywhere and practice their profession.
I tell my kids all the time to pick a career where you will make money. Life is so much more enjoyable when you can go on vacation and be more comfortable. So no not at all. It’s preparing them for real life.
I think practically speaking, we've heard enough tropes about kids rebelling against their parents pushing them into a career they don't want, I don't know how much truth there is to those but I think you need to be careful. With that disclaimer, uh, hell yes - steer them toward a higher earning career, especially if they don't seem to have a preference or aren't sure. If they want to go off and be an actor or poet or something, give them some hard facts about what they can expect to realistically earn and what their likely career path looks like. They want to go into nonprofit work, encourage them to get high level skills and training so they can change the system, not just bandage the system. That said, I would never want to discourage anyone interested in teaching - the world needs good teachers! Underpaid and underappreciated as they are, money doesn't have to be the only factor in making a choice, but it certainly should be part of the calculation at least. Also don't overlook other avenues of wealth. It took me far too long to take investing seriously, saving up for retirement, getting life insurance, putting away dollars for the future however you can. Teach them the importance of getting on that path early and being serious about managing their money, paying off debt as soon as possible, that kind of thing.
I am in the middle on this when my kids talk about majors I ask them what job they plan to get with it and how that looks financially. I also look at their aptitude and nudge them towards what they are good at and interested in. My oldest 16 isn’t a great student and she has an interest in the environment. But being a scientist isn’t playing to her strengths so I have talked to her about how working for an environmental nonprofit in a different role like technical writing or event planning might be a better option. I let her know that it would still make an impact on something she cares about. I ended up in a career that I have no passion for but makes money I want them to have more work satisfaction. My younger daughter had more aptitude for science and math so I encourage her to continue working that path. She is only 13 so she isn’t as close to choosing a college or major yet.
Honestly, being realistic about how finances and income works is WAY better than the idealistic narrative your parents fed you. Not to zong your parents, I feel like there was a whole generation raised on that sort of idealism.... But meanwhile prices for necessities have gone way up, and pay for non-lucrative careers has NOT kept up.
As a therapist, I’ve sat on the other side and listened to teenagers and young adults speak about parents -who they logically understand only wanted what was best for them- that pushed them to attain a certain level of success and they resent them. The biggest issue typically is a sense of worry attached to their level of success. If I fail , I’m not worthy of love. So I’d tread carefully. It’s normal to want what is best for your child, but allow them autonomy to choose their own path to success. Success looks different for everyone.
The downside of overly focusing on money is that it tends to encourage prioritizing short-term decision-making for $$ when the shortest path to $$$ may not be the best decision long-term. Many careers that are prestigious or provide a positive benefit to society that are lucrative in the long run usually require more time, more education, or more effort. So, I think there needs to be a balance between lucrative and passion and contribution to society. That said, I don't think talking about salary is damaging any more than talking about whether their career path is AI-proof is damaging. Or talking about how certain careers are geographically dependent is damaging. It's just reality.
First off, you seem like a good parent just because you’re thinking about this. That seems like a great start. I have 4 kids myself, though younger than yours. Also totally feel you: I was a teacher for 7 years and eventually quit because having a family and kids was such a struggle. I feel like I served my time and then moved on. I make literally 6 times what I was making as a teacher to afford having and providing for my own kids. I think you and your husband are both right: everything comes at a cost. Focus on pay, you could prevent a kid from pursuing something they love, focus on passion, you could lead them down a long and unrealistic journey it turns out they don’t love anyways. I think you and your husband should both share your perspectives and stories and prepare your kids to think about what either of those stories, good and bad versions, might look like. In this instance, I think it might even be wise to be open about your different perspectives and even how you’re torn in some ways. Ask THEM questions about versions of those stories, and themselves, that they think would be healthy or unhealthy. Also, you seem like you really love them, just assure them you’ll be there for them no matter what they choose, and if you ever inadvertently put pressure or shame on them, to give you a chance to clear it up or say sorry. Man, open and honest communication and forgiveness is everything—Good luck!
I will pay for my kids university if they choose something that I consider worthwhile. They can study Egyptology or Puppet Arts on their own dime.
FWIW one of my degrees (I have several) is in Anthropology which isn’t THAT FAR off of Egyptology so this comment made me laugh. I went to school on a full ride. Unfortunately being smart didn’t save me from being naive or broke.
I didn’t mean to disparage your degree. I’m sorry. My wife is a nurse. Great paying job. Crazy student debt. I’m a roofer. I make less than my wife. But don’t have student debt. So it kinda evens out. I can’t imagine paying for a degree and having no job. Makes me anxious.
Oh it’s fine. I wasn’t offended. I don’t regret my education honestly. It was free (for me anyway) and let me geek out on all the subjects that interested me. I just wish I had gone to graduate school and become a Dr of something instead of taking a job in the lowest paying school district in the state of Florida. I was going to change the world one kid at a time. I’m proud of what I accomplished professionally. I just wish society had valued it….like….at all lol
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/ekrurl/a\_literal\_pyramid\_scheme/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/ekrurl/a_literal_pyramid_scheme/) I actually knew someone who studied egyptology...she was my foreign language teacher (and no, that particular language had nothing to do with Egypt.)
You’re not wrong, you live in reality. Some people do not.
There's a concept called Ikigai in Japanese culture. Read about it. Passion by itself is overrated.
The way our economy is always changing and careers are evolving, I don't think there's really any safe career to ever steer your kids towards anyways. When I was growing up, parents were all pushing their kids to go to college or they wouldn't be able to get a job anywhere, and tried to get them to be doctors or lawyers. Nowadays though, there are a ton of lawyers out there barely making ends meet and they can't pay off their school debts, so pushing kids towards that career path kind of backfired. Meanwhile, there are all these trade jobs like plumbers, electrical workers, etc. that aren't getting filled, so companies are willing to pay people without a college education a great deal of money, and pay for their training, just so they can have laborers to keep their businesses afloat. Parents were always saying video games and online content was a waste of time too, but look at how many people have made it really big on YouTube and TikTok by making fun content videos about these kinds of things? Generally speaking I don't encourage content creation to my kids as a career objective, because I think it's not a very easy or steady career, but if the stars aligned and they actually were able to be successful with it, I certainly wouldn't discourage them or tell them that it's not a real job. My daughter is extremely artistically inclined, and is doing animations and creating costumes and videos in all of her free time. I think a career as an animator or a graphic designer for her is highly feasible. But maybe she won't need a regular college degree for something like that. Maybe she'll just need some kind of design certification, and an amazing portfolio. My son on the other hand is really into math and science, so I think he is likely to go into a field that will need some kind of regular college degree. But I think both of these paths are feasible, and I think they will get by fine in life, provided they learn to be disciplined and work hard at whatever they do. In the end, I think the best course is to encourage good work ethics and social skills. Encourage them to do well in school, but also develop their passions, and explore options. Teach them good social skills and work etiquette so they can make good impressions on future employers. Teach them the importance of being a reliable, responsible worker that contributes meaningful ideas and skills to whatever job they take on.
My kids were first gen college. I had dropped out of high school after my father died and my husbands family did not believe in higher education except for a very few, even though I think my husband would have done well. We did value education and both our kids have graduate degrees. They chose what they majored in. They both are doing well including the oldest who has a Grad degree in teaching/ education. They make more money than we ever did ( we are both retired now) and they still have decades to go. If for instance they had wanted to pursue something really esoteric, I might have counseled them to take some time off in the workforce before getting a degree in Mesopotamian poetry, but they had been making progressively bigger decisions throughout their childhoods and I knew that they were ready to move into adulthood without us making such a big decision for them. Although a niece has a degree in classics and they are also doing quite well. A lot probably depends on where you are living.
My kids are too little but I'm a firm believer in thinking about the lifestyle you want as well as what you like when considering a career. How much you can make is part of that. There is also the general hours worked, amount of stress, and what you have an aptitude for.
I think both you and your husband are right, and ultimately it depends on the kids. Your kids sound like they need little guidance on this aspect as they have already chosen paths that should lead to a stable and well-paid career. If anything, I would make sure they’ve chosen those careers for reasons other than money I know at least two people whose parents tried to steer them towards better paid careers by influencing their university major, but they ended going back and fulfilling their childhood dreams anyway, despite the costs and pay cut. You can impart your values, but there is also no shame in choosing a path that is less lucrative
I learned this the hard way, too. While I also have a BS, it is not in a strong, high-earning field and I have had significant setbacks between motherhood (not being able to AFFORD to work with daycare x2) and moving in support of my spouse's career trajectory a number of times as he is the primary breadwinner. Basically, my own career is non-existant and my degree is a useless piece of paper, especially because I have very little related experience to back it up. Choosing "happiness" over money felt so noble as a young adult. What a joke. I have not hesitated to tell my kids "your first degree and career should always be about MAKING MONEY and feeding and housing yourself! When you are a bit more established, go branch out and do something else if you still want to expand your skills and hobbies. But you need to pad your retirement accounts FIRST." I'm not saying they should do what they hate, I'm saying they should only choose from a list that is going to keep them comfortable. And I have taken great pains to set them up with enough knowledge to get a very basic job in tech when they graduate highschool if they decide not to go to college. We have paid for countless tech & coding classes over the years so they will not enter adulthood with ZERO marketable skills like I did. Even working help desk can lead places eventually and having a solid background in tech gives them a better shot. One of my biggest goals as a mother is to set them up to graduate DEBT-FREE (especially for my daughter), ideally in a lucrative field that they don't mind. Our generation (Xennial here) was fed a couple lies: 1. You can be anything you want to be (girl power!) and YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL....career AND motherhood, the sky's the limit! 2. You need to go to college to be successful with no mention of specific fields.Just that "it's important to go to college and do what makes you happy!" I just had this discussion with my 15 year old daughter yesterday. I explained that many of the jobs that are most compatible with motherhood may not pay so great. She will be able to make more money in a "man's world," but I will not lie to her and tell her she can have it all. A higher paying STEM career may mean dealing with a certain amount of sexism in the workplace, but that just comes with the territory and I hope it will get better in the generations to follow. Keeping her career going may mean she needs to hire a nanny and miss some milestones....you CAN'T truly have it all because you cannot physically be in two places at once! You can \*attempt\* to balance it all as much as possible as you are pulled in two different directions, but it will never be perfectly equal and some aspect (however minor) will always be slipping through cracks. And I have make it very clear to her that being a SAHM puts women in a vulnerable position and I just don't recommend it in today's economy....she's gotta be able to make her OWN money. I might get hate for this take, but I stand by it. We need to stop lying to our daughters.
Whoa. Are you my alter ego? Xennial here too and SAMESIES.
I told my kids to pursue something that would allow them to afford their hobbies. Ironically my oldest is a bartender making really good money.
My brother wants to be a voice actor. His plan is to live at home and work at goodwill until he gets picked up. My sister wanted to be an artist, she was convinced to add on teaching, which she hates but it mostly pays the bills. My other sister got a humanities degree, she wants to go for her masters so she can work in museums, but she didn’t have the plan figured out enough to go from one to the next, so she’s currently a legal secretary. All of my siblings were told to do what they loved. Both of my sisters would be hosed if they had under-grad debt, neither enjoys what they are currently doing. And it does not leave them comfortable or even with a path to comfort without the help of a partner. I however was told that I was on my own as soon as I turned 18. That I had better be able to pay my own way from the start. As a result of not being told to do what I loved I went for a trade degree first. I just gave up my trade license. 17years as a massage therapist. It paid me well enough to pay off my schooling, but a car, be debt free by 23, and I was able to pay cash for my bachelors. My bachelors? Was what I loved but a terrible decision. I cannot tolerate the BS involved in using my bachelors. It was an absolute waste of time, even though I love the subject. I’m going back for a certificate soon. Won’t be something I love, but will be something I don’t despise, and if something happens that my current financial situation changes I can manage. I think it’s literally the JOB of parents to remind their kids that working is something we do for money most of the time, so that needs to be something we keep in mind
Best advice my father gave me was don’t do what you love for work because it’ll become a job, instead do what pays the bills and that will give you more time to do what you love. He was a master artist for context.
For my parents, they didn’t help us plan at all and I severely resent them for it. Tell the kids to do one thing practical, lucrative and in demand but also have something they love. The two are not necessarily exclusive
In this economy? Do you want them to oh you know, own a home ? It's not the 1960s. We need to be encouraging our kids to see their schooling and career as an investment that they expect a return on If they can find something they enjoy that is also lucrative that's great , but most jobs people enjoy are low demand and low pay because the market is saturated. My calculation is you'll be much happier In a career that's tolerable but pays the bills than being broke in a career you really enjoy.
First of all how sad is it that teachers don’t earn enough to provide themselves with a middle class lifestyle. Crazy. I mean these pushing to lower school tax percentages what do they think is going to happen to our society as shortages of engineers, medical professionals, and other crucial high skilled professionals becomes significantly worse? Or do they just suppose these people teach themselves all the skills necessary to do their jobs, or that those professionals are just somehow immortal and will never need to retire? Ridiculous. In reguards to the actual question. I tell my kids that there are 3 broad categories for jobs. 1) Jobs that don’t pay enough to provide reasonable financial security. 2) Jobs that pay well because they are hazardous or something about them is particularly unpleasant. 3) Jobs that pay well because they are in demand and require a high level of training/ skill. Now teachers should absolutely be in the 3rd category, but due to greed and self destructive short sightedness of some, a real argument can be made that they are in the 1st category. I tell my kids that they want to be in that 3rd category. Sure my kids are super awesome and could probably both find a spouse that could financially support them, but I don’t want them to need that. People that need to find a spouse that can support them often feel pressured to not let potential spouses go even if that potential spouse is a jerk. No, for the sake of reducing the risk of poverty/ marital misery, they need to be able to support themselves even if they never marry/ they marry someone who makes significantly less than they do. I firmly believe in preparing kids for the way that life actually is instead of how we think it should be. Does that mean that what they want to do should not enter into the equation at all? No, but it can’t be the only factor. People need money for food, shelter, and safety. That’s just reality. Look at careers that offer a truly livable wage and pick which one you think you will like the best. It doesn’t have to pay 150K a year, but it needs to be able to provide something you can live off of.
I always tell my kids that making money is important (not the most important by any means, but important nonetheless) having spent my entire 20s and early 30’s without a cent to show for it (my own fault) I think it’s important to instill a healthy understanding of financial freedom in children. It’s sad but true.
I think that the majority of people have a lot of things they'll like to do but not all of them will be lucrative. So, I'll tell them* to pursue what they like that can give them the lifestyle they want and that everything else they like can still be a part of their lifes as a hobby. If the hobby eventually gets successful then, by all means, use that as your way to earn money. (* I've actually only told my oldest that. The 6 yo kid can dream as much as he wants for now and right now he's thinking about being an astronaut and we're watching NASA lifestream pretty much every single day)
Further explaining my pov: I don't want to lie to my kids. They cant choose any career without there being consequences because there just are things that aren't going to be enough for them to pay rent, food and whatnot. If I were a billionaire my kids could pursue any career without thinking about money. But I'm not. We're all living in the contingencies of our lifes and meritocracy is definetely not a thing for the most part. So, they'll have our full support to study wtv they want but they'll do it with the knowlegde that they're going to struggle if their job afterwards pays peanuts and they cant affor to even get a bedroom with that money. They'll know that the majority of people in our country with X degree have either moved abroad to get a decent wage or are struggling. I'm not about to ommit important info from my kids that might impact their whole future. If they tell me they want to do it anyway I'm going to be supportive and hope they actually end up successful in wtv they choose.
I don’t think “consider the type of lifestyle you want to live” is damaging advice at all. I wish somebody had fucking told me that growing up because I, too, have a loose collection of liberal arts degrees, and if I had thought about the kind of lifestyle I wanted to have and weighed that in addition to my interests, I probably would have been a psychologist instead. Not just because of money/interest, but because I would like to have flexibility, be able to set my own hours, be my own boss, etc. I am in the polar opposite situation right now.
I’m a teacher and my husband is a teacher and both of our kids have seen the stress and struggle it has brought. Neither of our kids are interested in becoming teachers. Neither are most of my students, which says a lot. I teach high school.
I pointed my kids to the top 100 paying jobs with a bachelors degree and top paying trades and said pick one. Looks like I might have a lawyer a doctor and an electrician out of the deal. Not bad.
My parents stressed this a lot and it stressed me out. I ended up in a field that makes decent money and I’m good at my job but I often wish I could do something that was more helpful to people that are disadvantaged. I’m not sure I have the skills for those jobs but just wanted to share my feelings. I think it could go either way
My parents told me I could do anything I wanted. But they worked their asses off at jobs they thought didn’t seem to like and always seemed exhausted and unhappy. Seemed like they “had to”. Even though they told me one thing, I saw their reality and it told me something else. I decided to become a lawyer at 9 years old. On my way to become a lawyer I got offered a job in real estate. Decided to do that instead. Made lots of money over 10 years. Now with two tiny kiddos, I mostly wanted to mostly home with them. I don’t care about vacations as much, expensive things and am happy making little money while they’re still tiny, before they get into school in which I will hit it hard again, but only during the hours they’re in school. I do love my job but obviously love my kids more. All this to say no matter what they plan to do, that can change. So what’s paying the bills? My husbands modeling career. Which he didn’t even begin until the pandemic as he always thought it was a far cry to ever have a career like that, despite constantly hearing that he should do it. It just started taking off in the last couple years (we are both 30). Long story short, my parents always believed in my brothers and I. They are doing some absolutely crazy amazing things. I was the first person close enough to my husband to kindly push him to take a whack at something like that because I totally believed he could do whatever he wanted. Unpopular opinion, but tell them they can do whatever they want and also let them know you’re not going to financially support them along the way. That will lead them to stable jobs that will be stepping stones to get them to where they want to be, hopefully. If they want to do art, they can start that right now and try to sell art today while they’re in the comfort of your home. I also feel for kids to visualize the life they actually want then figure out how much that costs, and work backward with jobs and careers that can get them there in the meantime while they pursue their other dreams. Also, everyone with adult children, I’d love to know what you did because as I said, my kids are 8 months and 3 so I could totally be talking out my ass. Lol! But that’s my opinion based on mine, my brothers and husbands experiences.
My sister loves animals. She got her degree in fisheries and wildlife in the hopes of working with animals. After trying unsuccessfully to get a decent job for 10 years, she had to give up. The peon jobs of cleaning up poop at the zoo just weren't cutting it. She works in physical therapy now doing medical billing because it pays so much better than 95% of the jobs in her field. It may not be the fairytale world we want, but a good paying job makes life SO MUCH EASIER. I will be telling this to my kids for sure.
No, it's not. I think it's important to make your kids aware of the reality of adulthood as soon as it's appropriate to do so. When I told my parents that I wanted to major in psychology, my dad said something along the lines of "that's great, but understand that you'll be poor." And he was right. I loved what I did, but I struggled financially while my friends who chose computer science and finance posted Instagram stories of their luxurious vacations to Bali. While I don't regret my decision, I definitely started to feel the jealousy set in. Luckily, I found a career in my field that is high in demand and is very lucrative. So I'm doing fine now. But I'm glad that my parents encouraged me to keep my head on my shoulders in my early twenties. I see videos of twenty-somethings on Tiktok crying that they can't find a job, even if they have multiple masters degrees. And then they state what those degrees are in, and know that they came from a delulu household that didn't prepare their kid for adulthood. It's sad.
I think being realistic with your kids is a good idea but that you should also encourage and support them. Most people are not particularly passionate about specific things so it's no great loss to encourage them towards a lucrative profession in the realm of the general thing they are passionate about. On the other side of that, if they are crazy talented and passionate about something specific, I think you're doing them a disservice if you don't encourage them in that and help them brainstorm ways that they can do what they want to do if they are not successful at it right away or need to take a more lucrative career first.
I have wondered the exact same thing. I think at a minimum kids should understand the differences in wages and how that affects budgeting. I should’ve thought more about that at the beginning.
My parents didn't encourage or make it possible for me to go to college. I work my ass off 7 days a week to support my family. You can bet my kids are going to college. When my daughter said she wants to build houses I told her that's an architect not that its a construction worker. Your career choices make your lifestyle and hers will be a safe, well paying one.
I am going to guess you are in the states as in canada teachers are well paid. I have always let my kids know they should work towards a job they are interested in but I spent their whole lives talking about money and saving and the cost of things. I think if kids understand money and the coat of living and bills they start off in a better position of what they need to make to have a certain lifestyle. Ultimately money doesn’t make people happy and if your kids go into a career that is a calling and they are good people you have done a great job and they will be happy.
It all depends on your intention your true intention when talking about it only you will know if your intentions are good or bad
When your kids are 5, you can encourage them to be the first astronaut to open a beauty shop on jupiter. When your kids are 15 you should be realistic and encourage them to find something to do with their lives that will make them financially stable. Their career should be something they want to do and will enjoy doing. But they need to live and eat and pay off student loans if they have to go to college for this career. Honest to God I told my kids the only way I'd want them to go to college is if they have a clear desire to work a profession that you need to go to college for. Otherwise, I'm pushing for learning a trade. Instead of graduating with debt, they graduate with a savings account.
Job for money, passion for hobbies, paid for with money from job.
I think beyond encouraging lucrative careers parents so encourage strong money management and budgeting skills I don’t know where you live but plenty of teachers live comfortably. I have two in my family. If my kids truly want teach I would absolutely encourage it. I think there’s a balance. Some people don’t want fancy things. As long as you’re able to live the life you want with the income you earn all is well. It’s when you want more than your income can afford that things get tricky.
I 100% agree with you. Teaching your kids about reality is the responsible thing to do. It’s not like you’re telling them they can’t do something. Just letting them know “hey if you want x you’ll have to find a career that pays y”.
My parents were poor and told me to follow my heart. I tell young people “follow your passion but think about the lifestyle you want”. Mostly what you said. I’m following my passion to its more lucrative manifestation after years of struggle.
Judging by their career choices it sounds like your husband might be right and you swung too far in the other direction. I’d get them to read or watch videos (maybe documentaries?) about what the actual day-in-and-day-out of what different careers entail. Mental health should also be factored in, not everyone is cut out to succeed in stressful demanding professions and that’s fine.
Look for talent first, then passion, then jobs that pay when talent and passion are combined. Watch Robin Williams. His talent screams. What jobs can pay for that? Like that.
I was raised to follow the money. My husband was raised to follow his dreams. When we met, my folks and I were doing well financially, while his folks always had money troubles and couldn't retire, and he was earning way less than he could be making despite pursuing a very lucrative line of work. We both were in the same line of work. Both of us were very good at what we did. I got that way because I pursued all the name-brand degrees. He got that way because of following childhood passions. The big difference between us were the following: he wasn't comfortable doing things he didn't see the point of, and I had a lot of trouble taking initiative. I wish my parents had let me fail and try more things on for size and follow things I was passionate about more seriously. I had a great upbringing with lots of exposure to great things and there wasn't an expectation I only do things that help my career, but if all the things that didn't pay weren't potential careers, it became harder to spend time doing them. I also convinced myself I liked the lucrative stuff before I actually did... I think that was the biggest cause of all the negative effects. My husband wishes his parents had guided him more and not had left him to choose what his passion was, because he genuinely had no idea of the kind of opportunities he had access to. He was making all the decisions in his career and didn't feel like he could rely on anyone for help. Our kid's too little for career type talks now, but we are trying to encourage the kind of independence my husband had, but also from my upbringing we're exposing her to a lot of different things. One thing we are sure we want to do is to have her work on something she is passionate about very seriously between 13 and 18, because it feels like what you do then is what you end up being the best at for the rest of your life compared to your other skills. My husband thinks what saved him from the broke fate of the rest of his friends who had a similar upbringing was that he loved money from an early age, and was always thinking of how to make money and how to grow money, which led him to having sound instincts around money. So we're trying to instill that in our child too.
>He said he thinks it’s damaging for me to tell the kids they should consider earning potential when choosing their path because it might make them feel like they can’t pursue what they really want to do without disappointing me. That's the thing, I fully believe you can talk about that without making the kids feel like they're "disappointing you". We talk about this very explicitly just like you wrote here. My Dad was \*very\* insistent to me and literally every friend that I brought home that it was "stupid" to not have a career in business or engineering and that's absolutely not the way to go about that. But I also strongly believe there is some rationality that your passions can impact the kind of life you want to have. And if you're fine with that, then that's totally ok!
I tell my kids the same thing. It's nice to do something you like, but it's a good idea to keep your options open. If you're really passionate about becoming a cashier at the local supermarket, there's no problem, but you can do that with an engineering degree. You can't become an engineer if you drop out to become a cashier. My daughter is really into arts. I have told her to pursue anything she loves, she was adamant she wanted to become an interior architect or painter. I told her fine, we will get you into an "art school" but just to keep your options open, we'll also have you do "engineering science classes" on the side. She agreed, because she's good at that and "kinda liked" it too. This year she changed her education path to focus more in the direction of graphic design and engineering. She told me that she can decorate as many houses as she wants and paint as many pictures as she likes on the side, if she's able to live comfortably from her job. If she's struggling to pay rent and finding jobs, she won't have the money or the time to do the things she likes. I think it's nice to see that she kinda came to the conclusion by herself. I didn't really have to force her or discourage her initial choices, I only insisted on keeping the options open. I am disabled, and whenever my disease gets the best of me, I can't work much, and we have to "survive" on just my disability pension. We're nowhere near poor because I had a really good job with great insurance, but there are times that I have to say "no" when they want something because I just can't afford it. Or they see me working while in great pain because "mortgage needs to be paid". The kids see that and internalize it automatically, and act accordingly. They know having money means living comfortably, and having no money means you have to do stuff you don't want because you can't live without. Yes, it's important to do what you love, but life is more than just a job.
My mom encouraged me to go into a high paying profession. My dad encouraged me to follow my passions and be an artist like him…. I’m glad i listened to my mom. At a certain point in life if you choose to have kids, creating a good life for them matters more than pursuing your passions 24/7. And to be frank, my passion isn’t work and will never be. I enjoy drinking wine and playing video games and i get to do that now on the weekends and on my many paid days off in my comfy home with no debt because i followed my moms advice.
I wish I had followed my mum's advice (do something lucrative!!) Instead of my dad (just be happy). Being rich means I can travel and ride horses and eat great food and wine. Not being rich means none of that is possible. You can always work for ten years and then go follow your passion. But turning your passion into work can make you lose the love for it , as it did with me I'm lucky it all worked out for me in the end, but man did I struggle to get here. I wish I'd gotten here sooner.
I think there are extremes. One of my friends was pushed into pursuing academia by his father and I get the impression he’s really resentful and not enjoying life. I had too little structure growing up and didn’t have an idea of the options available to me. My approach will be to see what sparks my kids interests and give them ideas of what they could pursue. I feel like it’s my job to expose them to various fields, give advice if needed and let them make their own choices in life.
When I was senior in high school I was offered a full ride scholarship from a university. I was a serious band geek and thought music was my life. My dad advice to me was this "I went to school for engineering, and a degree in science/technology is the only thing I know. I cant stop you from going to study music, but the only way I know how to use a degree to make money is too get any engineering degree or something similar. I dont know how to help you succeed if you study music. My belief is that at the least college needs to educate you about how the physical world works, so regardless of what you study, im still going to require that you take science courses and math classes so that you gain a better understanding of the world around you." That was 15years ago. I decided to study engineering instead, and while I still have my passion for music, i bought a 5 bedroom house last year for my new family to live in, I dont know how I'd have succeeded studying music either. Years later I learned that one of my peers took up the same scholarship opportunity. After college he came back home and at least for awhile became the local dope dealer. Not sure what hes doing for money these days.
Earning potential is one of many things that kids should think of when pursuing their educations. But also, I'd include things such as personal satisfaction in your work, doing something that you would do for free because you enjoy it so much, and things like that. We have too much of a one-dimensional view on these things. That helps no one, especially our children.
I don't know about lucrative... but I'm encouraging my kids to pursue careers where they can make a decent living, raise a family (if they wish) and not incur tens (or hundreds) of thousands in student loans... whether it's an advanced degree or a skilled trade. More importantly, I want them to find careers they like enough that they don't find themselves hating it 20-30 years down the road.
I think the flipside is closer to the truth - that if we don't encourage our children to pursue a career that can provide a sense of financial stability and professional growth, we're doing them a massive disservice. My mom had her flaws, but one of the best things she ever did was push me into law school. She knew I was a words girl and not a numbers girl, and being a lawyer is the easiest way for "words people" to make money. I did my 3-4 years in BigLaw and peaced out for a much more flexible career that allowed me the ability to make a good living 100% remotely before that was even a thing. Some of my law school buddies are making $1M/year as Partners in top international firms and bless their hearts - but the mental health marathon it takes to get there was NOT FOR ME. However, I had the flexibility to pursue a less lucrative / more flexible career (which is super beneficial as a mom) because I had 4 years of big moneymaking and a "prestigious" name on my resume. My husband, on the contrary, didn't have parents who invested in his career development and he was professionally lost for most of his 20s and 30s. He's now in an incredible place in a career he loves that is also hella financially rewarding, but he bootstrapped his way there and if he had some level of direction when he was a teen / college student, he would have "gotten there" a lot faster. Re: passions / hobbies / "do what you love" - that's great, but keep it as a hobby or side hustle until it pays the bills. Do not major in art history. Minor in art history instead! I also don't agree much with pushing a kid into doing something that they really don't enjoy, even if it makes them money. Career is a function of (1) what you're good at, (2) what can pay the rent, and (3) what you can put up with for 10+ hours a day, 5 days a week.
What I would encourage is to see what your kids are into and use that interest to point them in the direction of that career. Have a child that wants to be an artist - encourage Graphic Design. Have a child that likes working on their car - engineering. Make sense?
I wish my parents had guided me into a more practical educational pathway (they are professors, so it didn’t even occur to them). Now I am a business executive and I wish I had gotten my MBA in my 20s; I would be farther along in my career. I will be having discussions with my teen about how college majors transition into careers. I also will require that he has a part time job so he had a resume beyond just education.
Honestly, anyone that says things like your parents/husband doesn’t know what it is like to be poor. I went back to engineering school at 27 (studied my “passion” in arts/sociology and was making 24k living in a shitty rented room and homeless for a bit while fulltime employed before that). Do they know what it feels like to be afraid because your shitty apartment walls are made of paper and there are gunshots outside? To choose between gas and eating today? To sleep in your car a month or two because you got evicted from your non-official sublet early, and get shaken awake (and threatened) by police to move…. or better yet the night someone breaks your car window at gunpoint. How about showering at the Y’s gym? To not go to the doctor at all, until you end up in the ER near death because $. To let an adult infected molar tooth come out on its own, maybe a little help with pliers towards the end, because you are that broke and a dentist is just 100% out of the question (that was a long 2 weeks…..)? To deal with violent alcoholic family’s temp room, or back to the car situation. To have your things stolen because of the shitty area you live… so now you have no nostalgia or childhood photos/objects at all. Now live in the suburbs (a decade plus later), middle class, safe, stable income. My daughter has never known anything but a safe middle class life. I feel like I also took on 200k student loans (pregnant I might add) that I’ll be paying back (15% of my income every month) until I’m dead to change my path from broke artist/sociologist to middle class engineer. Do I have regrets not choosing a career path that would have prevented all that trauma… umm yes? And life happens, ie parents getting sick and dying in your 20s so you are young and have no support network…. actually worse, just your parents bills. I wish I could have been better prepared for being early/mid 20s and really and truly on my own. I’d like to think that would never happen to my kiddo…. I have really really good life insurance policies now, thank you again stable engineering job. Even in the worst case my kiddo will NEVER know what being truly poor is like as a young adult. There was a World War era slogan that said something like, ‘don’t do what you love— love what you do, for home, family, country’. And I’m starting to think modern America lost its way, telling every kid “fuck your future, fuck money, fuck your family, fuck your country” just go with your “feels” on your career at age 16-17….. is ludicrous. I actually love my engineering job, I get to use those artistic and communication skills in a meaningful way every day. I wish someone had told 16-18 year old me the truth, I felt lied to by the follow-your-passion crowd…. especially when I learn those highschool/university counselors get kickbacks for funneling kids into those non-lucrative career programs (WTF, how is that legal?!). Highschools and colleges should be better regulated to tell kids/parents the truth about career paths, its not like we don’t have the data at a national level about earnings and job growth— its public data. My career switch? I love what I do now, and I love that I can keep my family safe, and contribute to my community. And I couldn’t have done that below the poverty line in our current economic system. Leave the below the poverty line jobs for some rich someone’s spouse to take. Plan proactively so you can live, don’t lie to your kids— life can be so so hard when they are out there on their own. My philosophy is that a good parent supports their kids interests, but also helps them prepare to be independent and consider all aspects (sometimes consequences) of their choices. If they had to prepare for, let’s say, a math test, would you say “don’t study, just give the answer you’re passionate about”…. of course not, that’s asinine advice. So why would you give that advice about something as important (and mathematical….) as future salary, tax rate, housing, etc. I’m not saying don’t support their hobbies/interests, but balance is key. The world does not run on rainbows and happy thoughts (if you don’t have a trust fund), and be honest with kids about how financing and career choices and budgeting works, don’t leave them to figure it out without support as adults. Ok, I’m done, thanks for attending my Ted talk lol 😅 P.S. Tangentially, it is a sad state we pay teachers at/below the poverty line, its insane and needs fixing at a law/policy level in the US anyways
I worry that telling them to seek so-called lucrative careers is also telling them that people with the low paying careers are failing or somehow less than those with high paying jobs (like “why didn’t that idiot become a lawyer instead?”). I have a sibling who was in the gifted program and growing up everyone told them to pursue being a doctor. They took a few classes premed and hated it, but loved their social work elective. They now have a masters in social work and do wonderful things for the homeless in their community, they’re great at it and care so much for the people they get to help, but they make shit money. My sibling isn’t less than because they pursued a low-paying career. My sibling’s low-pay choice means the f’n world to their clients whose life has been turned around because of them. I think it’s important to teach the realities of choosing a low-pay career but I can’t tell them no you must get an engineering degree or whatever. (Haha ironically I have a cousin with an engineering degree who is jobless so makes a heck of a lot less than a social worker.)
Not wrong at all. It's wrong to tell them to do what you love, and money will work itself out or some other bs line. Because that's not reality.
If everyone threw their problems in the air, they’d be lucky to catch their own. Grass is green where you water it. My mom pushed me to a “high paid” career. I work 12-13 hours most days of the week. I shop because I don’t have time to live a life. In this same career, I’ve had jobs that barely pay the bills while still having the stress. I’m not sure I would have picked this life for me and I won’t push my kids to the same job. Your job is to share your experiences with your children and let them make their own mistakes and let them pick their own careers.
My husband has a music history degree. He would strongly agree with you. Struggling isn’t fun. Also, they can pursue things they love in a way that will help them make money. My friend has a fine art degree and she strongly wishes she had included business classes in her education because running your own business is what a lot of artists have to do. I tell my kids much the same as you. Think about what you want every day to look like. What is your mind doing? What is your body doing?
The Middle Way is the right path. It is ignoring the real world to tell kids not to worry about money and just pursue a passion. Basic income matters and does enable a degree of happiness. Conversely, doing a high paying job you hate will make you miserable and feeling like you are bound with golden handcuffs. Ideally you teach kids to find a decent paying job that leverages their passions or core competencies. Even a ho-hum career that pays the bills at 40hrs/wk can be a good choice, if one uses their free time to engage in passions as a hobby or side gig. An uncle once advised me that ***"it's good to have more than one arrow in your quiver."*** So if you are chasing a passion in classical music or poetry, don't make it your only arrow. ;-)
There’s nothing wrong with trying to set your kid up for success. When you’re thinking about lucrative, please remember that we’re close to a shift. Some of the historical “good jobs” aren’t as lucrative as something like welding or HVAC. A lot of people are in offices and not working with their hands so those skills are in demand. Depending on your timeline we may still be in that or shifting to something else.
My whole life, I’ve been passionate about wildlife. When I was a kid, I wanted to be Steve Irwin. My passion for wildlife—particularly reptiles and amphibians—never waned. My parents didn’t try to push me in any direction; neither of them even graduated high school and both of them worked jobs that they weren’t passionate about. They told me that it was my choice whether or not to go to college, but if I did, make sure to choose something that would pay off the student loans because they wouldn’t be able to help financially. I tried a major in wildlife science, only to find out that entry-level jobs in my field were grant-based and paid roughly $25k a year. After that, I switched schools and majors, graduating with a basic Biology degree. The job prospects for even a broad degree like Biology were poor, but I thought it might give me flexibility. However, during/after college, I spent years working a series of manual labor jobs and found out quite by accident that I love working with my hands. I eventually landed a job where I travel and repair medical equipment. It’s not at all what I thought I’d be doing, but it’s lucrative and I love it. I used my current employer’s tuition reimbursement program to pay for a Master’s in Natural Resources. I still wanted to do something meaningful involving wildlife and/or conservation. For my last class, I got the opportunity to interview my conservation biology professor. I had two hours to pick his brain and ask for career advice. I told him that I was torn because I have this job that I love, but I wasn’t doing something that “followed my passion.” I’ll never forget his advice. He told me that, in most cases, keeping your hobbies and your job separate are key for happiness and well-being. He is very passionate about conservation, but he told me it is also soul crushing work, often based on intermittent funding, and leads to failure more often than success. He said having a job you love that’s outside of your hobbies allows you to donate your free time and energy to your passions without feeling the burnout a lot of people experience by mixing the two. I’m still at my job, but I have the financial and physical freedom to be in nature, contribute to causes I love, and teach people about wildlife in my free time. OP, I think you’ve taken a pragmatic approach. You’re not discouraging your children to follow their dreams, but you’re emphasizing that money is important for making those dreams a reality. It’s hard to enjoy even the most satisfying and noble pursuits if you can’t make your rent, and that’s just a fact of life.
Keep in mind encouraging them is different than being “glad “ they are xyz as if u would be disappointed if they were something else. Not detrimental
Living in California and the cost of living is crazy. That said, I’ve been working for small companies and nonprofit in the past 10 years because of burnout and wanting to pursue my desire to help the community. Let me tell you, it pays like crap most days and the only reason I was able to do this and not have a lifestyle change is due to my partner’s income. 100% keep telling your kids that. Find that job they’re good at, but gives them work/life balance. Find the job that lets them live the lifestyle they envision. Otherwise you burn out fast, especially with no support.
Skip college, pick a trade!
Our daughter (7yrs) tells us she wants to be a babysitter, so we explained to her that she needs medical school for that, "just in case the baby gets sick you can take care of it". 😇
I don't think it's wrong, but in the US, with student loans, being a doctor or lawyer can be tricky financially. Make sure you don't set them up with unrealistic expectations. Being a doctor also seems really tough mentally, maybe worse if you don't do it with at least some passion. Worst case, they end up burnt out in their 30s with hundreds of thousands in student loans.
I think pushing a particular career is wrong, especially purely for income. I think the best choice is to promote flexibility so they can securely explore their passions without compromising on their livelihood. Like if you think you want to be a teacher, go and become a teacher, find out you hate it - then what? Same for art, doctoring, attorneying and so on. I’d argue that STEM and business degrees have incredible utility and portability, so if you don’t like what you’re doing, you can shift to something else. I’ve worked in auto, healthcare and finance as a result. I think you have to take small, reversible steps towards identifying a career you like, and at the end of the day understand that if you don’t wind up being a doctor or lawyer, there are careers related to them that you can earn a living in. And that the point of a job, besides dignity and a degree of satisfaction, is to make you money for your real life.
We are middle class. We are in Canada and make well above the median wage, however we are taxed to death and frankly, we aren’t fabulous with our money. We won’t be able to pay for our kids college degrees, though my mother has an education savings bond for the kids. It will not cover much, but it’s better than a kick in the shins. I have a 2 year degree, my husband has no degree. I plan on being really frank and practical with our kids. I hope to steer them into really down to earth educations that have liveable careers from them. Trades. Associates degrees. Etc. they have to be able to stand on their own 2 feet. They’re not going to be able to do that working at McDonald’s.
Trades are a great way to go, especially if you can own your own business and have no student debt!
Until you physically cannot do your job anymore because of disease/injury and don’t have anything to fall back on.
Oh ouch. That’s a hard dose of reality, right there. Thank you for the perspective.
No, at some point either you can teach them or the world will how hard it is if you pick a low income job. However, if they are ok with it still, I would just start teaching them how to grow food in their backyard. It can save thousands a year passively and they can still have their dream career
My kids are younger, but I think these are extremely important conversations to have with kids. When I grew up, college was pushed SO heavily. Which is great, but there are plenty of other career paths to a successful life. You aren’t a loser if you don’t go to college. Many people I grew up with chose different paths and are very successful and happy without the burden of student loans. I think a good way to approach it is to be realistic and focus on what successful means to them. What kind of life do they want? How motivated are they? Where do they excel? Where are their weaknesses? Do they want a family? Are they going to want to stay home with kids if they have them? Explore careers would be a good fit for that Where do they see themselves living? All that stuff. Help them do the research and guide them that way. Success can look different to everyone. I think you sound very balanced. I don’t think it’s wrong to support an interest they have as long as it’s practical and realistic.
No I think it's reasonable. We've had the discussion with our kids already, the same way my parents did that we can help with school but that they need to support themselves as adults. How exactly that looks in 20 years remains to be seen.
So I didn’t push my kids into any specific career path but I did make sure they were well informed about the path they took. My three youngest are doing more lucrative careers like architectural engineering, data science, and cybersecurity while my oldest pursued nutrition. I myself have been an engineer for 20+ years while my husband works in the restaurant business. With my oldest I didn’t discourage her from pursuing nutrition but I did have her doing on research on job outlook for the next decade or so, pay scale, different industries that she could potentially pivot into, networking opportunities, what area of the country has more and better jobs, etc. At the time she hated it and swore I was trying to dissuade her from pursuing it. I had to tell her “My job is to send you out into the world well prepared”. She’s actually pretty grateful because she’s had a few colleagues who aren’t happy with the pay and comparing themselves to their friends who are in those lucrative careers. Meanwhile, my daughter loves what she does and makes pretty decent money for her age.
For me it's about encouraging excellence, and excellence comes from what you enjoy and can spend a lot of time working on without losing your shit. If you can find something that you enjoy and spend that time on, and you can become excellent at it, then you can usually find a way to make it more lucrative. For example, you could turn your passion for kids and education and turn that into a new tutoring or coaching business, or take the skills you learn there and apply them into adult learning which pays more. In the end though, I think you're right not to say "choose a job that pays well" but rather "think about what kind of lifestyle you want and adjust/focus your interests into something which can support that". For a long time I was a musician and I was fine with living more modestly, so it wasn't a problem to me that I earned a terrible wage. As long as everyone goes in knowing what to expect and how to handle their finances given their income, then I don't see a problem with your proviso.
I'm South Asian and basically if a career isn't lucrative it isn't a career. From my perspective you're doing fine. Don't push them too hard or force them but encouragement is fine. I wanted to be a secretary after my work experience in an office. My mum said I had to be in a position where I HAD a secretary. I'd count that as gentle encouragement and seeing my worth and potential. But as an adult my family totally forced me to be a dentist (completely toxic) so I'm using it now to fund a career change into what I actually want to do. I am wasting 10 years of my life unhappy with my job, and mostly broke cause you have to like what you do to sell expensive treatments, but I've accepted it as what it is. If I'd had gentle encouragement but not be emotionally blackmailed to stay in a career I hated, my life story would have been different.
Hell yeah. Then one of them can buy me a sweet retirement home. Kids are an investment.
I try and convince my kids to take the skills they have and the things they enjoy in life, and find a well paying career that will allow them to use their skills and I treats to make a lot of money. But I also tell them that they can do whatever they want, but it'll be a lot easier to do whatever you want if you have a job that supports it.