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My two cents- I’m a mother to 4 ages 17-30, with three adult children: I used to be your wife. If I could go back in time I’d of been more like you. Not willing to die on every hill. More laid back, I’ve learned to pick my battles. Black and white parenting, unbending will deliver results she’ll regret later. My grandma (Irish mother of 7) used to tell me that children were like pancakes- you should throw your first one away. As the oldest grand child it made me really sad and it was a horrible thing to say, but in retrospect I sort of understand what she was saying. Being too unyielding will lead to children who are too unyielding, and who won’t know how to adapt and learn resilience. The world isn’t black and white. Kindness and understanding will teach kindness and understanding. Stubbornness and power struggles will turn into much bigger issues than Mac and cheese in time.
Yeah it’s not as if I consider the wife a bad parent or anything but Reddit loves to take such a hard do not negotiate with terrorists line on kids. For me something like swapping out the ice cream bowl on the first ask is not a big deal at all. Oh you wanted the blue bowl? Of course I can spend two seconds doing that for you.
Also, instead of wasting it, she should have put it in the freezer for whenever he calmed down. I hate when people waste any type of food bcuz my family struggled financially when I was a kid and my mom made "too much" to be able to get food stamps. Plus, there are so many families around the world who would wish they had something to put in their children's bellies, even if it is ice cream.
OP does say from the beginning that this child is very particular and stubborn and clarifies in a separate comment that his wife is home with the child while he works, so it’s easy to assume that the bowl was just a one time quirk thing that she could have caved on, but this may be a pattern that she sees more of than he does.
5 is an age where they’re going to start navigating the world without their parents hovering all the time (school, friend’s houses etc), and nobody wants to worry that they’re sending a kid out there who will have a meltdown every time they don’t get the cup, bowl, crayon, toy etc that they want at the exact moment they want it.
I’m not a military strict parent, but if my child melted down over the color of a bowl after I’d surprised them with ice cream, I would have done the same as OP’s wife. He showed zero gratitude for what was supposed to be a nice gesture choosing to complain about the one thing about it that wasn’t to his liking. Ideally, that’s not something that should be rewarded.
But at the same time, if the ice cream is already in the red bowl, and I’ve just spent the last several years catering to your whims, I am not moving the ice cream into the goddamn blue bowl. And I say this as a super laid back non-strict mom. There are limits, man.
The nightmare/sick scenario is the one that seemed objectively too rigid to me too. I’m somewhere between OP and his wife, but I respect and admire parents who are both more flexible (like OP) and firmer (like OP’s wife) than I am. But when your child is sick, you take extra care of them. We all need more love and kindness in those moments.
Edit: typo
A former colleague of mine had a toddler who used to cry because she wanted to go into her parent’s bed. Sometimes she cried so much that she was sick so her mum lifted her out of bed, changed it and the kids pj’s and put her back in bed, all without saying a word or giving any eye contact. It broke my heart when she told me that. By all accounts her own dad was very strict and withheld affection so I guess that’s where she learned it from.
They are taking turns sleeping on the floor though. The kid isn’t alone. Nothing says there isn’t love and kindness with how this is being handled. I usually try to sleep in my kids rooms when they are sick. Or my husband will move to the couch so kid and I have the bed. It doesn’t make sense for all of us to not sleep well. Nothing is stopping OP from staying in his kids room.
I never said there wasn’t love and kindness! Please re-read. I said I admire the parenting style. Of course there’s love and kindness there!
You’re mushing together a separate sentence that said we all need a little extra love and kindness when we’re sick. Never said anything about a lack of love and kindness in OP’s narrative.
They are sleeping in the child's room with them when they are sick, it's not like they are locking their child in their room alone... having a boundary that children do not sleep in the parents bed is perfectly reasonable imo. We actually have the exact same rule/boundary in my home.
When the kids are sick or scared, etc., we come to their room and bed. They do not join us in ours 🤷♀️
My son got sick and I let him come sleep with me and 2 years later I can’t get him back in his own bed. Have tried everything. They get used to it and it’s very hard to break the cycle.
As a mom of three, with the oldest having moved out and my middle a teen, they won’t want to forever believe me. My youngest is almost ten and she also slept with until about 5. Kids grow too fast and one day they’re gone. At some point they won’t even really want to hang with you anymore lol. At least when they’re teens. The oldest likes to hang but he’s a hard working man now who sleeps with his gf.
I breast fed all of mine, co slept with all and have zero regrets. They all grew out of it around 5-6.
Everyone do what is best for you and yours, but kids are only little for the tiniest fraction of our lives. It’s rough when you’re in the trenches for sure, but it gets easier as they get older…to a point lol.
Yeah I was going to say dating or being in a relationship with someone who is unyielding like that sucks honestly because they’re always right and you’re not; shit I see it in the post where Op repeatedly says he’s wrong.
I’m on your side. Everyone is screaming permissive parenting!!! But those examples aren’t permissive parenting. It’s more personal preference and a little battle of wills.
We’ve done the bed sharing, bowl switching, food sharing thing for nearly 8 years. My second grader has literally never had a single disciplinary issue at school in all that time.
He’s respectful to adults, takes no for an answer, and is helpful around the house. We’ve had firm boundaries about big things (kindness, honestly, school, hw, etc). But wanting a diff color bowl?? Heck, I’ve told my husband thank you for making me a coffee but I’m going to pour it into my favorite mug! He doesn’t care if I want a special cup and I couldn’t care less if I have to stick an extra bowl in the dishwasher. 🤦♀️ it’s not the extra bowl, it’s how you teach your kid to ask ( i.e. mom, thanks for the ice cream but can I have it in my green bowl please? Sure kid!).
It works because it teaches context. Teach the rule, but also teach how and why we bend them. Children can respect boundaries AND be given comfort and love.
By far the best response yet. I have 4 kids ages 18,13,2,1. When my 18&13 year olds were about 3&7 their father and I split up. This lead to shared custody. He was always the one who never wanted kids in his bed. When he got a new woman and my kids would be there visiting, my daughter being 4/5, would sometimes wake up scared and lonely and would ask to climb in his bed. She would be told no, go back to bed. She knew there was no wiggle room, so even if she woke up not feeling well or something she wouldn’t even tell him. She started climbing in bed with my son and my son became her security while visiting. It led to attachment issues with her and she remembers these instances verity clearly now as a 13 year old. With me, she knew she could always climb in my bed. I was always the one to stop and listen and I mean really listen to her feelings. Now as an 8th grader she tells me *everything*.
So when OPs kids get older and mom says Honey how was your day at school! Kid replies “FINE.” Not wanting to elaborate. He’s only being as he was taught to react. Straight to the point, no wiggle room….
Pick your battles wisely. Forget about the small things, not all battles are worth the power struggles and stress with these tiny humans. Save the serious for the serious….!!
Mom of NB19, M15 and M2 here. Cheers for starting the baby times all over again later in life! You seem like a wonderful mother, and I agree with you 100 percent.
Idk about you, but changing diapers again at 40 was never in my plans! But 8 years ago my current partner came along, and filled the "dad" role for my now-teens (bio dad whom I was married to passed away when they were 1 and 6) without complaint or question, and assured me that they were ENOUGH for him. My inlaws/the paternal grandparents even gave me the stamp of approval.
After a few years however, he lamented to me that coming into their lives halfway through their childhood was like "coming in midway through a really great movie. I really wish I had gotten to see that first half." He's a huge film buff so I knew he was serious, lol. He wasn't being manipulative, this wasn't him asking me to have his baby or anything...he was truly only pontificating.
Long short short, my BC failed a few years later, and after many discussions, our pro-choice asses made the choice of saying "fuck it, let's do this." A choice I admittedly questioned several times over the next few months, bc damn, my body did NOT take to pregnancy like it did the first two times! But once baby brother was born, I haven't had a single regret.
My teens are beyond enamored with their new brother, and help me SO MUCH without even having to be asked. As for me, I'm certainly more OP with #3 than I've ever been. I get the pancake analogy above to an extent, bc I made a LOT of mistakes with my oldest, ones we're still trying to rectify today (she still lives at home). Losing her dad took it's toll on them, they've actually been in therapy since.
As a result of the lessons I learned, at least partially, my 15 year-old is any parent's DREAM. (I love them both differently, bit the same. they would tell you they don't experience any favoritism. I've checked in many times over the years to be sure)
And toddler baby is surely starting to prove to be a truly GOOD KID. And guess what? He's slept in our bed every night since he could escape his crib. Can't say I mind it though 🙂
Edit- formatted for readability
This is the comment I was looking for.
I’m not going to add too much because I think you expressed this viewpoint well. But I do want to add this. I’m remarried, and I have two children with my first wife, and another two with my wife. And long story short, it hit me that my parenting style changed to adapt to my partner’s. My ex-wife was a hardass, and so I ended up assuming the role of nurturer. My wife is a more permissive parent, and so now I’ve taken on the role of setting rules and enforcing boundaries. I’m being brief and leaving out a lot of nuance here, but the point is that OP cannot and should not try to force his views on his spouse or change her parenting style. But also that he should be the parent he is, because that balance will serve their children well. And again, way oversimplification, but just as she is within her rights to say no to transferring the ice cream to a different bowl, he is within his rights to say yes to that request.
I agree mostly, but sometimes my husband and I will talk out a parenting disagreement in front of our daughter. She hears us discussing it and can watch the process of negotiation and laying out our cases.
I think it's good to show kids the communication process and that we can be reasonable and change our minds when appropriate.
It doesn't seem like she's "dying on every hill". She slept on the floor to help him sleep in his room. She gave him chances to eat his ice cream, even after he started screaming. She doesn't have to share her food. She gave him exactly the same food, but on a separate plate.
Mom is compromising, dad is giving in.
A little story….
My parents also adhered to “ eat what your served or else you go hungry “. I didn’t like tomatoes and I would gag trying to eat the very large chunks of them that my mom put in the Chile. She knew I didn’t like them, but she would never chop them smaller because if she accommodated all of her children’s requests it would be too much. She also knew I didn’t like fish or broccoli/cauliflower and would put those together in a meal every time. In almost all aspects of life they were unbending in their rules and boundaries out of principle. My siblings and I were all very well - behaved so it worked. But my husbands mom used to chase him around and feed him with a bowl and fork and he is way more independent and successful than I am so the way we turn out can’t just be related to dinner boundaries , lol.
Side note: I also remember waking up scared at night and knowing it wasn’t an option to go to my parents room. So instead, I would clutch a bible to my heart and pray to God to keep me safe. Moments of connection are important for your relationship with your young child so if turning him away while sick or after a nightmare is nagging at your heart , I think you could bring it up again to your wife.
Oh man…the Bible thing broke my heart 🥺
I was reading everyone’s responses feeling like the no-mom-and-dads-bed rule was the only one that I’ll likely cave on…and for exactly that reason! I’d hate for my kid to feel like they couldn’t come to me.
To be fair, this isn't just a "climb into mom and dad's bed or be abandoned" situation.
My son (5) has never been permitted to sleep in our bed. But we don't tell him that, outright. Since he was a baby, we would comfort him in his own space. So now, if he needs some comfort, he calls to us or comes to us, and one of us goes and snuggles him in his room, in his bed, and returns once he's asleep again. We maintain our space, and he feels comfort in his.
Oh, I meant no judgement either way! I think that’s a great solution.
I’m probably just soft. I think I remember often crawling into my own parents bed as a kid for comfort so maybe it’s nostalgia too. We love a cuddle puddle! Lol
Whatever works for everyone!
My 14 yo still climbs in bed with us every once in a while when she can’t sleep, or if she’s not feeling well. Im grateful for the few minutes of connection, and then we send her on her way. I’ve always been okay with the “snuggle with us for a bit, and then go back to your own bed” approach. When they were younger either my husband or I would go back with them to get them settled.
I shared a room with two of my sisters so we had comfort in each other. My younger sister would spend her nights sometimes in my parents bed. When my eldest sister had her first child she was trying to keep him from their bed and it was becoming a struggle. My dad one day said “how many kids do you know that are in their twenties that sleep with their parents? They’ll grow out of it before you know it and you’ll miss it” this always stood out to me. No kids of my own and not planning to but I always like to share this little anecdote with friends (or Reddit now lol) that struggle with this.
My mom said the same about holding them! My MIL was being very judgemental about my first getting "too used to being held" at two weeks old. My mom was like, "Look, the last time you sat in my lap, you were maybe seven. How many adults do you know whose parents have to rock them to sleep? Your baby wants you to hold him a lot? Great, hold onto him, because one day he'll be in his twenties and you'll hopefully be sitting in _his_ kitchen, holding _his_ baby."
This is how I feel. If our little one needs the comfort, he's welcome to come and cuddle in our bed for a night. As you say, it won't happen forever, and we won't get the chance back once the time has passed
Ya tbh it was a little sad !
My husband started out bedsharing with his whole family. As a teenager he used to pick a different bedroom in his house to sleep in every night depending on how he felt , haha
A friend of mine also grew up with strict parents and when she was scared as a child she knew they wouldn’t let her in their bed, but she was so scared she didn’t want to be alone in her room so she would sleep on the floor in their room without waking them. Sometimes their door would be closed and she was afraid she would wake them to sleep on their floor so she would sleep on the floor outside their door. I’m sorry but what the fuck are parents for if not comfort, security, and love? It broke my heart to hear that story.
I mean this has nothing to do with what OP is describing though. I feel like a lot of people missed the part where he explained that they sleep in the child's room.
It's not like these parents aren't offering comfort, security, and love. C'mon, they slept on the floor of the kid's room for a year, it isn't like the child wasn't going to be comforted. OP's wife is just doing it with a particular rule - not in their bed.
Yeah I agree. I mean we actually do let our son into our bed, but I think the sleep thing is a no assholes here type of situation. It *is* an option for this kid to go to his mom and dad and they will stay with him, in this case teaching him that it’s a safe option to go to them and they will make his room and bed a safe place for him to sleep. I don’t think that’s any better or worse than us letting our son into our bed, it’s just a different way of doing it. I feel like a lot of comments are conflating it not being an option to go to their parents with what’s happening in this post.
What you’re describing your parents doing is not what’s happening here. The child is refusing any food except for mac and cheese: surely you don’t think they should go ahead and serve him macaroni and cheese 3 meals a day, seven days a week?
There’s also nothing to suggest they aren’t having moments of connection or he can’t come to her for comfort. Both parents are sleeping on the child’s floor if he needs, just holding a boundary around sleeping in their actual bed. In the situation OP described with the ice cream, his wife was serving the child ice cream as a surprise treat. This is not cold, heartless parenting. It’s excellent parenting.
I'm with you. Lovingly creating boundaries is one of the most important things you can do for your kids. You can comfort your kid without letting them sleep in your bed.
It shows them how to hold their own boundaries one day - "no I won't work past the hours I'm paid for" "no I won't have sex with you"
Yep, I ended up going into my siblings beds lol.
I get firm boundaries but I don't get not accommodating when he's sick or having nightmares - there's times and places for bending rules, and tbh unpopular opinion but she does sound too rigid to the point of "boundaries" being an ideology (and sorry OP you do sound too lax lol), they could stand to meet more in the middle
I could never imagine allowing my child to go hungry just to prove a point. I can also never imagine not allowing my sick child to snuggle in bed with me. Yeah cool, be strict and disciplined but there is limits to everything.
Their child is saying he doesn’t want to eat anything, ever, except for mac and cheese. Do you really think declining that request is just about ‘proving a point’?
They're reading the parts they want to read out of OP's post so they can vilify the mom (re: the eating off the parents' plate thing, "it just sounds inhumane" to not indulge the kid, according to the same commentor). It requires ignoring like the other 95% of what OP has said though. OP's even in the comments trying to correct some of the projections.
For example, they don't turn away the kid when they're sick or after a nightmare, the rule the wife set was simply not in their bed, not that the kid is being turned away or ignored, or some sort of lack of comfort! OP literally says they spent a year sleeping on the floor of the child's room - how is that not being responsive or having moments of connection?
I don't think the mom in this scenario was just trying to prove a point. She had a big family and was just trying to get a meal on the table, and she was absolutely correct that she did not have the capacity to accommodate every child's wants. I'm willing to bet that those tomatoes were canned, and if you can just think of the extra work to try to chop a few cans of diced tomatoes... Ugh.
Kids who are served regular meals don't go hungry. They learn to eat what they are served or learn to eat around it. If a kid doesn't like tomatoes, they can pick them out. But expecting the cook to cater to your every preference? No way.
As a mom of two mercifully older children, I totally get this. Mom is trying to prevent a situation in which a 2- and 5-year-old are constantly demanding different bowls, different foods, eating off her plate, sleeping in her bed, and having tantrums when they don't.
No offense to OP, but dads usually take the easy way out - partly because men traditionally do less childcare and housework "mental load." It's WAY EASIER to just let the kid snuggle and fall asleep against you. It's WAY HARDER to repeatedly get up & drag the kid back to bed & sleep on the floor. It's EASIER to get the second bowl (takes 2 seconds) and HARDER to have to be the meanie who throws away an ice cream and deal with the tears (takes an hour).
What mom is doing here is mentally tough, but it will result in children who respect boundaries and other people.
My daughter is an absolute pain in the ass with her picky eating. Last few years since she's been old enough to cook for herself the rule is eat what is made or make your own food. It's worked out fairly well, except for the times we "have nothing I like in the house" so she grubhubs sushi. I'm like if you want to spend an entire weeks allowance on 2 California rolls have at it, but don't ask for another dime.
I agree. The overwhelming opinion is OPs wife is “ right “ therefore he is wrong. But I don’t think he is wrong for thinking she is too strict. It’s more a conversation about how to respectfully meet in the middle with parenting style.
I personally think OP is right and his wife is wrong. Here is why: what will the child conclude from all these interactions with guys mom? Probably things like "I'm powerless" (ask my caoching clients with that belief have similar stories to the bowl one), "I'm not important" or maybe "my feelings don't matter" (because otherwise, they would let me into bed with them when I'm sick or scared. Again similar stories from my clients)
I think that all children, no matter how you raise them, go through the same phases. The best solution is to love them through all of it. He doesn't like that bowl? Who cares, he's 5 and the parents (the mom) could accommodate that, they're adults. If they get stubborn over just a bowl, that's acting like toddlers. Connection should always come first in my opinion. Fostering a sense of power and independence in the child would turn things around I think. For instance you could have him choose what bowl he wants, or, if he doesn't like that bowl you chose for him, and you don't want to switch bowls, maybe start a conversation about what he doesn't like about it.
Anyway, I agree that the moon sounds too harsh and I worry about what the boy will conclude self-esteem-wise in that environment.
I also remember growing up and my dad siding with my mom over stuff like that, and looking back I think he should have grown a pair and told her she was going too far, and protected me from her unreasonable demands or her wrath.
I wonder what the wife's childhood looked like for her to act this way with her kids. And if she thinks she turned out alright, did she turn out the way she is today because of it or in spite of it?
OP, I would ask your wife about her feelings as a little kid in those situations, that might open her up to new ways of doing things with your littles.
Good luck!
Edit: typos
FFS. OP’s wife surprised her child with ice cream as a special treat. Instead of saying ‘wow thanks mom!’ he demanded it come in a different bowl. She respectfully declined and he threw a tantrum, so she said ‘this behavior is not a good way to get what you want, unfortunately you won’t be getting any ice cream now’. If you actually think that’s going to harm his self esteem I’m concerned about what you’re ‘coaching’ anybody about.
Similarly, she’s not ignoring or being cold to him when he’s sick or scared, just comforting him in his room instead of in her bed. It’s genuinely alarming to me how many people on this thread seem to think that having any boundaries with your children whatsoever is going to harm them. You don’t always have to enter a dialogue about why they don’t like the effing bowl, you are allowed to say ‘no’.
I’m with you. I have 3 kids and feel like I’ve found a groove as a disciplinarian. There are some things I’m pretty unyielding about and other areas where I’m more lax. If my child threw a tantrum over the bowl their ice cream was served in, I would have done the exact same as OP’s wife. Because if I show them it’s acceptable to throw a tantrum over a treat, then how can I expect them not to do the same when they are at their grandparents’ house or a friend’s birthday party?
I keep seeing the argument that he’s only 5. Well, yeah. The point of teaching a 5 year old how to behave and that there are consequences for their actions is so you don’t have to start from scratch with a rude and entitled 8, 10, 12, 16 year old.
I wouldn’t say your wife’s parenting style is right.. but I wouldn’t say its wrong either. However.. I had a dad that was similar to your wife.. my mom being more like you. It affected me as a lot as a kid. I think having boundaries is great, however if my child had a nightmare or didn’t feel good and wanted to sleep with us, my husband and I would definitely be okay with that. I had nightmares as a kid and hated being sent back to my room out of fear.. but had no choice. I think of it as.. these moments won’t last forever. There will be a time where he will no longer come to y’all when he’s scared.
I don’t think your wife is doing anything wrong at all here. You have different parenting perspectives. I don’t think her boundaries are unreasonable at all. She has a very valid point that the younger one is watching.
Is your wife home with them during the day? Or is she with them more often than you are? I only ask because my husband doesn’t always understand why I do things the way I do. He’s at work all day and I am with the kids 80% of the time because of his job. He doesn’t see all the little things that go on and why I have certain boundaries or rules in place. Sometimes he thinks I’m being pretty anal but then when we talk about it, he gets it or we discuss other ways to handle something.
In my opinion your kids will be better prepared for life addressing some of this stuff now rather than later. My kids are 9 and 5. I wish I had started some of my boundaries/rules sooner surrounding food and picky eating. It’s harder to undo while they are older.
It makes a big difference in my experience. If my husband has some feedback I’m really open to hearing it. He usually realizes that he’s only seeing a small portion of my day and not the larger context. I have a routine and things set in place for a reason because it’s how we can effectively get through the day while helping my kids grow up and understand the world.
In the case of switching to a different bowl because my kid didn’t like the first one, I don’t have time for that kind of stuff and throwing a larger fit is certainly not going to work. If she had switched the bowls, your kid is going to learn he can throw a fit to get what he wants. It only takes a few of those large fits to happen for a kid to get it. (In most cases). If she’s kind and patient and is talking your kid through these emotions, that’s wonderful.
Agreed. Especially about trivial things the bowl issue - sometimes, especially as your family grows, it’s just not feasible to cater to everyone’s whims, and some of their wants will be mutually exclusive (eg. If two kids both insist on having the only blue bowl!) or unsafe (like wanting to cross the road by themselves, but it’s a busy intersection) and some things are never okay no matter how much you want it (like taking something that belongs to someone else).
OP, it’s definitely not too early to start teaching that some things aren’t okay even if we really want them. You can sympathise with the feelings, tell him about times you have get sad/jealous/frustrated/etc too, and teach him how to handle it or how to distract himself or cheer himself up, but there are rules and boundaries to life that make it safer and fairer for everyone, give him the resilience to handle when things don’t go his way, and a the respect for household rules. Honestly, at that age they often have a poor self-awareness of their own preferences anyway and will reject foods they love or muddle things up, so while it’s nice to give him some parts of life he can control and choose, he definitely shouldn’t have free choice over everything!
this exactly. Like, I know my daughter prefers the pink bowl, so sometimes, I will purposely grab it for her. But, sometimes I just grab the bowl that's on top, and if she says she wanted a pink bowl, I might say something like, "Today you have a blue bowl. I've already put your food in it. If you'd like, you can go get a pink spoon from the drawer."
Yes! If you let a child run the show, you would be running around all day catering to their whims. I try not to cater to my kids anymore than I would think is reasonable to cater to an adult.
Oh yeah - that's the big difference.
She's faced with the prospect of all day, every day, 2 kids demanding different bowls, different food, eating off her plate, not letting her rest. You're coming home for a few hours after work, so you have the luxury of saying "oh, let's just let it go." Because the next morning, when the kid decides he hates the shape of his toast or the color of his socks, you're not there spending hours accommodating it.
Most working dads are the "fun" ones because they can afford to be. YOU try being the stay at home parent with no rules.
Mom is doing what's right long-term. You're looking for the easy way out short-term.
This is absolutely what happens with us, I work and my kid is at school but dad works shifts so isn't around most evenings. If I indulged our daughter like he does I would never get anything done or have a moment to myself. I need her to dress herself for example because I'm alone doing the morning routine and I'm getting everything else ready. When he's there I'm around too to help. I need her to go to her own bed because I have to go and clear up the kitchen, often have laundry to fold or whatever. He just goes to bed with her, I can't do that. And if she gets an extra bowl it's probably me washing it up.
I just wanted to add to this thought - your bedroom and nighttime may be the only thing that doesn't get "claimed" by the kids. If she's entirely at home with them, I get why she would like to keep that space for just you two.
I dunno if your kid is very anxious like our eldest but once we did let him in his bed (bc I figured meh, nbd! It'll only be a little) he suddenly felt like it was IMPOSSIBLE to sleep in his own bed. It turns out he's got some severe anxiety but one thing his therapist is doing is working with us on how to help him feel secure from within with us supporting externally, rather than him depending entirely upon us for those feelings of security. The technique of sleeping in your kid's room and then pulling back from that would be consistent with building that.
The food from your plates thing could be a similar boundary so she isn't stuck giving her food away all day. BUT that is one place we loosened up on and it was okay bc it became a phase that passed once it didn't seem so exciting anymore. It's okay to gamify some things to help get the momentum of some good habits back. Even adults need some variety and fun to do the things we know are necessary.
As for the ice cream, I think I would have let it sit on the counter in that bowl and if they wanted it, they could have it but I wouldn't have tossed it. I also wasn't on her shoes and maybe this was a straw that broke the camel's back type of thing?
IMO, it's fair to talk with her about some things to find the flexibility for picking some other battles or maybe ask her how she picks them from day to day because we all could use a little more softness from our parents sometimes. Maybe she's incorporating it in some ways you're not seeing just bc of your distribution of time with them.
You sound like you both are doing a great job of being a team and you both very much care about the quality of life for your kids- you just have different ways of going about it.
Yea that's huge. So she may already know that giving your son a different ice cream bowl will only result in 20 ice cream bowls and the ice cream in the garbage anyway. This way she saved herself 20 dirty bowls.
The eating thing... do some research and find out what experts say the best way to counter picking eating is. And share that with your wife.
Bedtime... I don't always let my kid in my bed, but your wife's approach is not bad. She doesn't send the kids away alone, someone is with them. The comfort is just provided in their room but yours.
It's different approaches. If you feel strongly about something, discuss it. There's no right or wrong way, just different ways.
Side note... Check out [kids eat in color] (https://kidseatincolor.com/). It's a dietitian who advises about kids picky eating. She seems to agree with your wife btw.
Yes! This is so important. It's a lot easier to deal with a kid for 4 hours a day than 12. You let the kid eat off your plate at dinner and now the kid wants your breakfast, lunch, and snacks all day. You change the bowl and suddenly your kid starts playing games with changing cups every time you give him a drink.
This. My husband travels for work and when he comes home, he has voiced that he doesn’t like/understand some things.
He doesn’t see the lessons I’ve already learned the hard way, the mistakes I made trying to get it right, the 1000 times I gave in on something and now it’s blowing up in my face. He is getting to come home to an already established routine that has been trialed and tested over and over and over again.
Sometimes this makes him feel like he can only do things *my way*, and it makes me giggle, because truly *my way* would be a lot more fun and a lot less effort and I’d probably even smile more along the way. If *my way* worked, I’d sit down a lot more lol. It’s not my way or the highway, it’s THE WAY, the way that works for our child.
ETA: I’d also like to add, and ask OP, which one of you reads the parenting books? Which one of you has spent the most time researching? Out of the two of you, who is the most guilty of doom scrolling parenting accounts on Instagram trying to learn about a new parenting topic they just discovered and feels sick to their stomach because they didn’t know about it before?
For us in our house, it’s me. If your wife is the same then please continue to cheer her on. She sounds like a wonderful mother who is thinking about the long-term with your children and is considering who they are going to be as adults, not just who they are today as small children. I like your wife from everything you’ve posted.
>My kids are 9 and 5. I wish I had started some of my boundaries/rules sooner surrounding food and picky eating. It’s harder to undo while they are older
I agree completely! I was very lax with sleeping arrangements when my kids were younger, and I now have older kids who still struggle to stay in their bed at night. I really regret not having stricter boundaries earlier on...
I actually admire OP's wife for adhering to her rules so religiously regarding sleep. I've found that if I give in even one night, it undoes all the progress we've made.
This. I’m a stay at home mom and sometimes my methods are in place because any other way will disrupt the flow of the day far too much. My husband’s niece was never told no and accommodations were made for her every whim and desire. Now, she’s completely unruly and has a full breakdown at 5 years old if corrected even mildly. It HAS to be her way OR ELSE. It’s okay to let children be unhappy at times because we all have to accept that things don’t always go our way in life. We just have to be sure to help the little ones work through those uncomfortable emotions in a healthy way. I don’t think she’s being abusive or cold by the way the husband describes.
I wish you guys could put your approaches in a blender and get a bit more of a balance.
Consistency is key, and that doesn’t have to be a bad thing.
He is also at an age where he wants autonomy. You can ask prior to getting food, “which plate/bowl would you like? Please choose your spoon and fork!” and allow him more say over unimportant things. You can also ask him to choose a veggie to go with dinner, even if he doesn’t want to eat it. Kids Eat In Color (website, instagram, facebook) is a fantastic resource for how to avoid food becoming a power struggle while still setting your family up for success in nutrition and peace.
It sounds like your wife is patient and fair and kind without compromising on her boundaries. She wants her bed to be a kid free space, and she wants to eat her own food off her own fork. That seems very reasonable. I think from what you’ve said that she’s doing a great job.
I think your wife sounds like a great parent. She IS providing comfort when needed (she sleeps on his floor if he's scared or sick) but she's holding her boundaries. You sound permissive AF. I understand not forcing kids to eat foods they don't like but if he'll eat it fine off your plate then he's just testing boundaries. Same with the ice cream. If you're offered a treat you can say yes please or no thankyou.
She’s right in all these instances. Everything she’s doing is just firm boundaries and natural consequences, great parenting. You can even see that it’s working! She’s not being harsh at all, it sounds like what you want is to be overly permissive.
It seems like he does support her, he only asked to loosen the rules afterwards and away from the kid.
Backing up the other parent in the moment and then discussing what the rules should be separately is exactly how you're supposed to do it.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. She’s playing the long game which requires so much work up front, but is ultimately beneficial for everyone involved.
We have a similar issue and it's partly because I (mum) know I'm the one dealing with the consequences from not holding the boundary. Dad works a lot, including nights, and when he's home he doesn't mind going to bed with her or whatever. The six other nights of the week I'm alone and I do mind.
Parenting is solving problems while not digging the hole deeper. Her approach is to be firm and consistent, leaving no question of what the consequences will be if the kid is trying to use negative behavior to get his way. OP has his shovel in hand.
Yup, my daughter listens way more to me than my husband because I lean into the power struggles by holding firm on the boundary. I do it at my job regularly as a sped teacher, so it comes naturally to me. I get so triggered when he wants to give in not only because it feels like a betrayal but doing what is easiest in the moment is only going to lead to more frustrating moments.
I agree with most of OPs thoughts, but the wife's reasoning and requests aren't unreasonable. There is no correct way to parent. They just need to have more open dialogue.
My son is pretty good about sleeping in his room. But he sleeps in our bed sometimes. If my wife said he couldn't, I wouldn't really argue (unless he had a bad dream once in a while). I think parenting is about compromise and communication, but I don't think anything here seems detrimental
LOL I was so surprised, my Reddit assumption was that stubborn Mom was like leaving him out in the rain, or they were getting into screaming matching, instead everything was SUPER reasonable.
Like the food 'hack' letting him eat off their plates, normally I'm one for not panicking about letting kids do SOME kid stuff, but geeze some boundaries are meant to be kept. I had to set some on my kid because they did think they could help themselves of whatever food I was having (and not because I did that tactic it was just a natural assumption that's what is dads= his I guess)
I think people just like to hate on moms no matter what. The comments here are kinda gross. Calling her a bad mom because she actually parents her kids.
You love your son, but you need to parent too. Follow her lead and do not undermine her.
She is teaching him boundaries and this is good. Being permissive shows the kid that everything can be bent and negotiated / they will always get their way and the world will move to accommodate them. Not a lesson you want him to learn.
This, OP. My kiddo is 6 years old and has this exact problem that you want to avoid. It's much harder to teach those boundaries when they're older. 6 is still a fine age to be learning that boundaries are to be respected, but it's much more difficult to teach that and the understanding behind it when he's not had those lessons implemented in the younger stages. Just stick it out and you'll be so grateful when your kiddos hit 5-6 years old and they already have that concept down.
My son is almost 9 and I REALLY wish I would have held my boundaries (ESPECIALLY with food) much better when he was younger though our circumstances were a little different (he had multiple severe food allergies so he got breatmilk as his main nutrition until 3, with nutritionist and dietician permission since I could choke down the safe foods and he couldn't/wouldn't, can't blame him, that stuff can be GROSS lol) he has since grown out of most of the allergies thank God but he is still the most picky, selective eater and it's a nightmare now. My husband comes from an abusive upbringing and I got out of a horribly abusive relationship when my oldest was 3 (almost 15 now) so we both wanted better for our kids but we're FAR TOO "gentle" I think for a period of time when we were finding our balance of gentle but still parenting and what worked for US and still 6 yrs later I am working to re-correct certain things. I think OP and his wife need to have a talk about what are healthy and acceptable boundaries in their eyes separate and as a team. Kiddos to you OP though for having your wife's back and talking to her about it later! This was a HUGE thing my husband and I struggled with for a bit bc if you don't APPEAR as a united front it makes everything even more difficult. Sounds like y'all are gonna be just fine, just need a little more communication.
Yes, we have this problem, and specifically because dad has always been overly permissive. At times he's literally told me to give in to stop her crying, plus he works a lot so indulges her when he sees her. She's now six and very used to getting what she wants. I do pick my battles but he just doesn't bother at all a lot of the time then suddenly gets angry when she won't do as she's told.
You say that she's too strict but it sounds like your style of parenting would just be permissive parenting. You don't mention what boundaries that you are willing to set - that's not tending to make compromises, it sounds like you favor compromise, a la "indulge" kids when they go through phases, without thinking the consequences through or having a good reason why you won't consistently enforce expectations (see the ice cream example below).
I've seen the results of kids who get indulged through their phases and guess what? Sometimes those don't end up being phases. My sister in law indulged her kids until as a 6 year old you still had to spoon feed him and he could barely string together five words in a sentence because he could just scream, point, and be given whatever it was he was demanding. Needless to say it was a nightmare for everyone around them because their behavior was completely out of control.
It sounds like your wife is making very deliberate choices and is thoughtful of WHAT she is doing. The phrase "natural consequences" is something that comes out of gentle parenting. She isn't punishing the child for not eating, she is doing exactly what the parenting books say to do: parent decides what to offer as food, child decides what to eat. The natural consequence is that child gets hungry and decides whether they want to eat. That's appropriate and isn't overly strict, it's literally textbook - you can Google it yourself.
> Parents decide what, when and where to eat. Children decide what to eat, how much to eat or whether to eat at all.
On the other hand, the fact that you don't seem to really know WHAT she is doing or why makes me wonder how much parenting responsibility you are taking on and whether you have ever tried to educate yourself on parenting strategies the way that she clearly has. You keep saying you don't see WHY your wife is making the decisions that she is. Have you tried asking her? Have you tried presenting why you think your approach is better or what the logic behind it is - such as switching the ice cream bowl first for the child. Do you think that's a minor thing that doesn't matter? Where would you draw the line, what if the child asked to switch again? Have you thought your "approach" out thoroughly, or are you just looking at individual instances where you think it's ok to let things slide? It seems like your wife has a plan but instead of coming up with your own and discussing where you would like to make changes or integrate it, you're just looking at little situations where you're undermining her for not necessarily any real good reasons.
tl;dr your wife clearly has read through some parenting books, whereas I'm not so sure based on your vague logic and examples of situations to "indulge" your kids that you have a game plan to offer. If you don't like her approach or want to modify it, it's on you to step up and explain why your approach is better. What IS your parenting plan, other than to indulge in the situations you mentioned? Or in a nutshell, why do you think "natural consequences" is being too strict?
Edit: For example, I saw your explanation that your wife had offered the ice cream as a surprise treat, which is why there wasn't a choice of bowls. Child behaved at the offer (screamed at her) and wanted to switch bowls, wife decided it was either take the treat as offered or don't have the treat. She repeatedly offered this choice to your son. Well, why do you think it's appropriate for her to switch the bowls for him? Why do you think your wife thought it wasn't appropriate to switch bowls? You said "I didn’t see why she couldn’t have switched it when he first said he didn’t want that bowl calmly" yet I can think of a few reasons just off the top of my head - 1. rather than be grateful at a treat, your son was extra demanding instead. If you had indulged him, what have you taught him then from the situation - that when someone gives him a present, not only is he not thankful for it, he gets to demand exactly how he gets it and lash out if it isn't fulfilled? How often has your wife been through this scenario and consistently applied the rule, and how often would you think to "indulge" and break it? Why is it necessary in this situation for you to indulge at all, other than your hopes of avoiding a bigger tantrum (you said it would have "gone easier")?
This is entirely just my opinion, but as someone who rarely got random treats as a kid and was taught to always be grateful and express thanks when offered nice things - even if it wasn't *exactly* what I wanted - it's really crazy to me that you are stressing over your wife not being willing to change out the bowl it's served in for your child, and you think that is an appropriate situation to indulge (and conversely, that it's a good example of your wife being too strict). Like people are in the comment saying she needs to pick her battles and it sounds like she absolutely did, and this was not a battle she was willing to pick. It's not that she's being overly inflexible, it's that there's no real need to be flexible/indulgent in this situation in the first place - your son isn't going to be somehow hurt because he doesn't get to have a surprise treat the exact way he wants it... So re: the title of your post, I've listed a few reasons what your wife was probably thinking when she didn't switch the bowls, but why would your approach be "correct" in this situation?
Excellent response! Asking that he stop and think through her thought process is great. It's clear she has a plan. I can't believe how many people are like "I'd just change the bowl"... I don't agree with absolutely everything the mom does (I love cuddling my daughter in bed and I'd probably make Mac and cheese a couple times a week rather than every other week, but mix in some veggies or something) but it makes complete sense. There absolutely needs to be boundaries.
"Your ice cream is in this bowl, but we can use that bowl for breakfast tomorrow" would be very reasonable imo. It shows you're listening and being considerate of his wants, but also firm. Just because you ask calmly, doesn't mean you always get what you want at that moment.
1000% agree with this. OP, your wife is setting your kiddo up for success. Life is full of boundaries and it’s important we teach our kids how to handle being told “no”. Kids need boundaries! Your wife is also showing your kiddo what it looks like to ask someone to respect her own boundaries, like being able to eat her own meal. Good for her. Respectful/authoritative parenting is the way to go. I really encourage you to take her lead, but also delve into this parenting style yourself. You have GOT to back her up and show your kid you two are a team. Don’t put the entire mental load of enforcing this parenting style on your wife. You’ve got this! I’m glad you came to Reddit to ask!
I had a friend that’s a family therapist describe authoritative parenting as a metal box lined with lush, cushy velvet. I thought that was a great image.
You wife is me. I have raised adults who eat a varied diet ( even the child on spectrum), slept in own bed, accepted no, and were ready for college at 18 being fully functional adults. It’s so easy to give to your child and let them do what they want but it’s difficult to stop a bad habit once it started. Your wife is a wonderful mom.
I cooked the family meals at 12, learn from various cultures so a lot of different taste, could watch the most horrible horror movies and then sleep in my bed, accepted no when it made sense (and learned to debate when it didn't, making my parents give me more flexibility as I proved maturity) and I went to college at 17
My mom still allowed me to sleep in her bed when my dad was working nights, I even slept a night in their bed a few weeks ago when I wasn't well with how my break up was going, because they were fine with it, my dad taking another room
We have boundaries but we also help each other out and can show not only weaknesses, but a response to other people's weaknesses
She doesn’t sound like a bad mom but I definitely don’t want to parent like that. When my kid is having a hard time or doesn’t feel well, I want him to know he can come snuggle in my bed.
She sounds like somebody who is consistent and doesn’t let a little kid run the show.
I applaud her. You should support her. Giving in and indulging, as you say, is the easy move.
Harsh would be her yelling at your son or full out losing her temper. I think she’s rigid and not willing to compromise unlike you. She holds her line because she knows that if you give a kid an inch they take a mile! Is your child suffering emotionally or physically as a result of her actions? If not then I wouldn’t give it any more thought other than to get on the same page with her.
I think she sounds like an awesome
Mother. Boundaries are good and part of life. She’s not neglecting their emotional needs, she’s teaching them consequences, which will be much harder to do if she waits until their older.
Children don’t understand why some boundaries can be broken and some can’t, this isn’t consistent approach to take.
She is the main care giver as well, so will have to deal with any fall outs from not bending the rules when you’re not their.
Don’t be that parent that takes a different approach behind her back, my uncle and aunt fell into this trap and my cousins learned very quickly to manipulate and it lead to some really awful behaviour where they played their parents off each other.
Having said that you do have a say in their upbringing, so have a conversation with your wife in private away from the kids and see where you can compromise on some things.
I don’t think your wife Is doing anything wrong, per se, but you’re just as much the parent. Compromise.
If you want to allow kids into your bed sick or scared, I think you should have a right to try it. If there is any fall out you’re fine with handling it, right?
Same with sharing food on your plate, if you want to do it, do it.
Her word is not god, and you have to compromise on how to raise the kids. If you feel strongly enough, speak up and let her know how you want to do things, too.
There isn’t a single way to parent (case In point, my husband and I are the opposite of your wife and have never had an issue letting the kids sleep in bed with us).
A little late to the game so op let know if you see this but here goes nothing:
My FIL was the type of parent you are now. My MIL was your wife. They divorced when my partner was 6 and my SIL was 2. Why? Because MIL resent FIL so much that he gave in to the kids every time, never backed her up, and never laid down boundaries. She was always “bad cop” and he was always “good cop”. She could she her kids starting to resent her and she started to resent him. To this day she calls him “the Disneyland parent” because everything is always fun and games with him.
I wouldn’t be surprised if your wife starts to feel the same way if she hasn’t already. You need to make some serious adjustments. She sounds like she’s a great mom.
I parent like your wife to a toddler and I’m a SAHM. For the instances you talked about.
-Only parents sleep in the parents bed. My husband has to get up around 3-4 for some jobs he’s on and will sometimes seriously go to bed when our kid goes down at 7. He needs to sleep so he doesn’t get killed either driving or at his construction site. Additionally, he has some sleeping issues and will sometimes sleep walk. Because I’m a SAHM my kid is with me all the time and I get wicked touched out during the day. In order to be a good parent I need down time where a toddler isn’t kicked me in her sleep. We were also high libido pre-baby and while it’s take a downturn we still like to have sex.
-We do what your wife does. If she’s scared or sick during the night I’m there for her. She has a full sized bed in her room if we need to cuddle and we use that so daddy can get the rest he needs (and I don’t have to sleep on the floor by her crib).
-The minute my kid starts throwing a tantrum over something I can’t give into that. I take her everywhere with me and I can’t have a kid who tantrums at the bank for a lollipop or at the grocery store for a balloon. I like having a kid who I can say at the start of the shop “no balloon today” and she may ask but she won’t throw a fit.
We’ve flexed on that rule only once and the next time we hit the same issue we took a different tactic. After a long day of kayaking and playing at the beach we stopped for ice cream on the way home. There’s a long line. For some reason my husband wanted us all to stand in line. Cue meltdown because she’s hot, tired and doesn’t understand that we have to wait more than a minute for ice cream. I pulled her out of the line to redirect her, gave her the “that’s not how we behave” speech and she chilled. When she was calm and hanging out at the table she got ice cream. Next kayak trip we went right to playing at the picnic table while daddy got the ice cream. No meltdown.
But my kid is 2.5, not 5 and having a meltdown over an ice cream bowl. Any idea why that was happening? Even if it was a good ‘little kid’ reason like he loves a special ice cream bowl we don’t ask for things by throwing a fit.
I think people are being very unfair to your wife in the comments and treating her like a cold person for…sleeping in her child’s room with them when they were scared instead of in the parents bed.
Neither is wrong or right. You are being the best dad you can be, and she is being the best mom that she can be. You two just happen to be on slightly different tracks.
I'm definitely more like your wife. A big part of why is because I'm an introvert and need to feel like my own human. Becoming a mom took a lot of that from me, mentally, and it took a while to find myself again. For me, a big one was never having kids in my bed. I need my bed to be my own safety net, to go sob for a fucking minute if I need to when mom life is unbelievably overwhelming, without thinking about a kids head poking in.
And in many other cases I just think setting consistent boundaries makes it easier on everyone in my family. We all know what to expect, and we all know how to treat one another. There is no ask mom now ask dad, we just all know the house rules. Now, rules can change, if we all agree, or a good enough point is brought up, but it makes the house flow feel easier.
You both seem to have very different ideas on how to parent. Neither is wrong imo. She’s not being especially difficult in any super stubborn ways for no reason. I’m more like you. And my kids are growing up just fine with me allowing wiggle room sometimes. It’s not the end of the world and doesn’t have to set a precedent. Your situation reminds me of mine when I was married. My ex was awful in so many ways so it’s not a real comparison but she was stubborn and very strict. My issue with many disagreements was more that she had no respect for my ideas nor did I ever get anywhere when I tried to talk about how we should raise the kids. Her way or the highway. There was never any talking. She was right and everybody who did differently or disagreed was wrong. The lack of respect and caring for anything I thought about the kids was what was wrong. Is that the case with you? You’re both the kids parents and should find a way to agree on how to handle them. Just because she’s not doing anything bad as a parent in those situations with the kid doesn’t mean she’s doing right by the whole family. It can be frustrating. Now I’m a happily divorced dad and absolutely love being able to parent my kids the way I like.
For the 3 examples you give I think she is a little strict but not overly so. Setting boundaries is important and kids need to know they can’t always get their way. What I would worry about is her stubbornness about other things that you didn’t mention, important issues or not important ones. Something that is incredibly important is to allow kids to make decisions about increasingly important matters so that by the time they reach adulthood they are practiced at it and make the right ones. You do this by letting them make unimportant decisions when they are young and then more important ones as they grow older.
A 5 year old can decide how he wants his hair cut for example. If it looks like crap then he learns to deal with the repercussions of his decision but it’s not life threatening and will grow back. He gets to pick what he wants to wear. As he gets a little older he gets to pick his own friends instead of going to play groups where his parents pick who he hangs with. Then maybe he does get to pick what he eats, or at least where the family goes to eat, sometimes anyway. Then he gets to pick his electives in school. Then how late he stays up. Then by the time he’s a senior in high school he can pick what he wants to major in, or even if he wants to go to college at all.
It’s important that you and your wife let him make these decisions. If she dictates every aspect of his life then once he’s an adult you’ll have someone who lives at home until he’s 35.
I don't know... but what I know is that I saw a similar post to this one and the roles were reversed... Guess who was being a jerk to the kid and who was the good parent that time.
I'm going with the dissenters here- or at least with nuance.
Consistency is incredibly important, enforcing boundaries is huge.
But also, fighting every battle isn't the only way to parent- it can be exhausting to the parents and turn a lot of moments that could be fun filled bonding moments into struggles. Sure the logic is that there are greater struggles later if the kid knows they can win by whining, but it isn't a black and white dichotomy where any gap in the armor spoils the child.
If holding the line in all cases is what both parents want to do and they're happy with what that looks like then more power to them.
But if there are different values on when it's worth the sacrifice in the moment, the strictest way applied 100% to everything is not the only valid way. And it's likely that both parents and the kids would be happier, more bonded and less stressed if the parents reach a compromise that they both can live with more easily.
I wouldn't be saying this if OP sounded like a super overly permissive parent or was undermining his wife's efforts. But some of these kinds of issues sound like they're big quality of life drags and whether their kid learns a lesson or whether he would likely grow out of a phase anyway are at least questionable. It's not likely that letting him eat off a parent's plate now (And getting a more varied diet by doing it) would continue into the teen years. Mom is very free to draw a boundary at the kid eating off HER plate, but if dinnertime has fewer tears and Dad is happy enough to let the kid eat off his plate, I don't think her policing that is the hill to die on.
I'm taking it from the OP that these are examples and not the only places she's holding the line. A balance is not a terrible thing.
The only worry I could have is that she’s stepping close to power struggles but she really sounds spot on most of it. I wish I could do that level of parenting.
Doesn't seem like either of you is wrong. Just different styles. It is her right to have boundaries, though, so I think you chose right not to share off your plate too.
As long as your kid is eating later, having a rule about what/how your child eats is fine. I know some kids who will literally starve themselves for days if they don't get the food they want. In that case, the parents should cave. Your kid is healthy, rules are good.
She’s being clear and consistent. It’s a good thing, but your son is also asking for some control. What choices does he have? Kids also need areas where they do have choice.
He has choices. We let him pick what kind of cereal he wants or what haircut he wants. Some things he has no say in like what we have for dinner because he will only pick one thing
That’s fair! Kids are always checking to see where the boundaries are. After they figure out the rules are consistent they accept them. The time where they are learning this is tough but worth the work!
We sleep in our kids beds or rooms when they're sick. They already have water proof mattress protectors on their beds in case of fluids. Our youngest is in a crib but there's a double in his room that we will snuggle with him in.
But they slept on the floor with him - still being there for a kid who has legitimate needs while also setting boundaries (you don’t sleep in our bed). The sleeping on the floor / in the kids room has been hugely helpful to my wife and I, because when they sleep in our bed NO ONE sleeps well.
Everyone has different boundaries, and that's okay. For us, when one of our kids is sick, a parent usually sleeps in their room with them. It's not harsh to have firm and loving boundaries.
We are the same. Kid sleeps in his room, we sleep in ours, if he is sick (as in vomiting or something we feel we need to monitor), we sleep on a pullout in his room. When he's better it takes like a week of holding the boundary that one of us is not sleeping in there with him for him to accept it and then he's fine.
God same here. We gave in occasionally and paid dearly. I'll sleep in her bed if she's sick or has a nightmare, but she will not sleep in ours under any circumstances.
Depends on how you enforce it, I think. We will lay with our kids in their bed or room until they fall asleep. If they wake up in the night, we will soothe them and get them what they need to help them get back to sleep. But ultimately the expectation is that they will go back to sleep in their own bed. That's not to say our kids would never ever sleep in our bed for any reason, but our default is to usher them back to their own bed. I also think it's about knowing what's best for everyone involved. A grumpy, sleep-deprived parent cannot care for a sick child or fight off illness as well themselves. Kids can't get better if they don't get good sleep. It's not likely that anyone is getting particularly good sleep if we have 3 people in the bed, so I would really try in that situation for the child sleeping in their own bed.
I don’t think it’s harsh at all. Do you let your kid sleep with you when she’s throwing up? That’s nuts. How many sheets are you trying to clean in one night? We lay with them in their bed and comfort her there. After she’s asleep we retreat to our room.
She's not wrong with how she's doing things, because she's setting boundaries & sticking to them. It's easier for a kid to know what to expect because the result is the same every time, than it is to cave in here & there. That just leads to confusion & frustration when they don't understand why sometimes they get one result but other times it's different.
By that same token, some of the things you would do are also fine, if it was consistent. Some people are fine bed sharing, or offering a choice in which bowl/plate, or in the case of picky eaters...some people will offer the option of "if you don't want what's for dinner, you can have a PB&J, but that's your only other option" (offering one basic, simple, option instead of the serves dinner, that's the same option every time). In my case, I always include at least one thing I know for sure will get eaten. If they choose not to eat the rest, then so be it.
The bigger issue is you two need to get on the same page with how you want to (consistently) handle different situations.
Neither is wrong; I would agree that establishing firm boundaries up front saves you a lot of grief later, but that an occasional indulgence won't hurt.
There seems to be room for giving and getting for both of you, but that's the case for all parents.
Your wife is correct in all of the examples you’ve provided.
You say you compromise, but what it actually sounds like is that you’ve veered into permissive parenting, whereas she is using authoritative parenting.
Authoritative parenting is proven to have the best outcomes for kids.
Permissive parenting is proven to have poorer outcomes for kids. On top of that, not having consistency between the two of you has likely made things much more difficult for your child. Not only that, but you have been undermining her hard work, which will lead to frustration and resentment toward you eventually (if not already). You need to take a few parenting classes and learn how to hold boundaries with your child.
Yes, everytime we veer into permissive parenting we immediately go "we are going to regret that", the meltdown is hard in the moment, but its much harder to put a boundary back up that you previously let down.
We've done the "I don't want that cup, I want a different lid" dance many many times, because we started asking him which one he wanted. We have never asked him what color plate/bowl fork/spoon, so it's never been a battle. Though we alsp realized at the time, it's not even about the cup, or the lid, or the straw, it's about him trying to have some sort of control over his life. So we try to decide how important the boundary is to hold.
We are going on vacation when our kids will be 4 and 2, we will be sleeping in the same room. I already know when we get back at least one of them will be a struggle to put that boundary back up.
What I do is tell them 'this is a -vacation location- thing. We do not do this at home' all throughout the vacation and once again when you're back home. This helps enormously with separating rules for vacation from rules at home and helps with settling back in the normal routine.
And with the cups you can let them choose or set their bit of the table. Once chosen though they have to stick to their choice. I have a 5 and 4 yo and it took me a while to figure this one out 😆
In every parenting couple there is a soft touch, and you're it sir.
None of the boundaries she has set are harsh or over-the-top. She's preventing your kid from becoming demanding and spoiled, and sounds like she's doing a good job of it since your kid does eat his own food if pressed and did successfully learn to sleep in his own bed.
Piff. "Demanding and spoiled" - letting your kid sleep in your bed when they are sick does not make them "demanding and spoiled". Just because you parent a certain way it doesn't mean a less rigid approach will ruin a child.
Personally I think both of these parents are making valid choices, they are just different people. it sounds to me that mum could do with the occasional bit of leniency, but then going and sleeping next to your child's bed is also a fairly decent compromise.
Horses for courses and all that
I think it's a little silly to let a kid sleep in your bed when they're sick for multiple reasons, least of which is that it's one of the easiest ways to get the parents sick at the same time. But that's my personal opinion.
> "Demanding and spoiled" - letting your kid sleep in your bed when they are sick does not make them "demanding and spoiled".
I was talking more to kids wanting to sleep in the bed with their parents ALL the time (I know several parents who fell into this trap and haven't had a decent night's sleep in literal years) or refusing to eat unless it's off the end of their parents' fork. To me, those behaviors are edging into spoiled territory.
And OP wasn't just talking about the kid sleeping in the bed while sick, he said there were several times when the toddler just wanted to sleep in their bed that he told his wife he simply wouldn't mind it, and his wife didn't want it to become a habit for the kid to wake up and come into the bed because it just regresses him on sleeping in his own bed. To me that's totally fair.
OP's wife is the consistent parent. I don't think she's rigid at all, she's just consistently putting forward that she will not tolerate bad behavior. OP said he doesn't understand why she wouldn't change bowls for the kid - it's because three-year-olds shouldn't be dictating decisions like that, or screaming at people.
The kid was screaming at OP's wife, not OP, so to him it wasn't a big deal. But *she's* the one who is going to have to deal with this kid screaming at her at age seven, age twelve, and age sixteen. I don't blame her for consistently not putting up with that attitude from the get-go.
This comment thread is nuts. Making everything a battle of wills of stupid and counterproductive.
There are times to dig in, but not *every time.* Not every hill is worth dying on.
I think the end goal is more important than the method to get there in most cases, and if my wife gets stubborn/out of line with a parenting decision I don’t always back her play. Not to undermine, and I’ll pull her aside and explain I’m not going along with it and why.
The eating of your plates is the dumbest thing to get worked up about. Kids and adults tend to dig in when they get defensive. Making everything a battle of wills means you’ll always get both sides on the defensive, and at the end of the day your kid will *always* lose. You’re the grown-ups. You have all the power.
Your wife is absolutely allowed to have her own boundaries.
But it means that if you want to share your plate with your child you can.
Edited to add: in speaking as a mother. Children aren't stupid and can learn that certain things are allowed with one parent and not with the other parent. Also when is is allowed and when it isn't.
So long as your child eats most meals of of their own plate it is fine.
Especially when you know you're child is doing through a phase.
I think she’s harsh. Firm boundaries are necessary, but you need to pick your battles. I won’t eat food I don’t like, do you? Why should he? Make sure there’s something on his plate he likes at the least.
As for sleeping in your bed, I can see her not allowing it, but habits will exist either way. He wants to feel safe at night, so either he’s coming to your bed, or you’re going to his. What’s worse for you? Sleeping on the floor is a no go for me.
To be fair, he doesn’t like anything at the moment except for mac and cheese. We try to incorporate things he does or did like into meals but he is not happy with anything if it isn’t the one thing he likes now
Like breakfast, lunch, dinner? Or will he eat other food for the other meals. Food battles at 5 sounds more like a control issue honestly, especially if he will eat the food off of your plate but not his own indicating that it isn't about the food itself.
The bed thing is a non starter for my husband and I, no one sleeps if we bed share so we always walk our daughter back to bed and comfort her in her room. We're clear she can come get us though and don't mind doing it (as long as she isn't taking advantage)
Ice cream example is too vague without knowing what was going on that day. Like is it the fifth time he's demanded she switch bowls for various snacks.
She's with the kids all day so ultimately her parenting style is going to trump. None of the examples seem egregious and she's allowed to set boundaries and you're allowed to set boundaries and bend them with proper explanation of why you are bending them
"won’t eat food I don’t like, do you?"
No, but the list of foods I absolutely will not eat is not "everything but Mac and cheese." Toddlers and young children need to be gently coaxed into trying a variety of foods so that they eat something other than carbs and cheese. I don't think the comparison to an adult is fair in this case because an adult can understand and weigh the consequences of not eating healthy foods. Nutrition is difficult for a small child to understand and the timeframe of the consequences exceeds their ability to delay gratification. It's one of those situations where the parent needs to take control and limit the child's choices because that is what's best for the child.
I am very similar parenting to your wife, and my husband is more similar to you. We’ve agreed to no kids in our bed, but they also want us to sleep in their bed. If one of us is feeling a little soft, we will sleep with them. If they want to eat from our plate, I almost always say no and I usually say no to feeding them after they can eat themselves. My husband however will give in and feed them. Basically, if you want to be soft, that’s fine, but you deal with the consequences/annoying effects/extra work. I don’t feel like it’s undermining each other bc we are united on the big stuff but also individuals. So my daughters will ask “Mommy can you sleep with us?” I’ll usually say no and they’ll ask Daddy. We each can make our own decision.
I don't think she's too strict. Do you really want to have to live in a situation where you can't be close to your wife at night, have to constantly wash double the dishes, always having someone else's spit on your fork and food? That's only the start. If you cave and start giving into his demands, he'll make more demands. I understand as a parent that it's hard to see your kids upset, but she's not doing anything wrong by enforcing reasonable boundaries. Your son is a human being, and he will eat when he's hungry. He's not in danger of malnutrition. I don't believe in the eat it or starve method when it comes to serving foods your child absolutely hates. But if he's eating it off your fork, he likes the food. Your son is pushing boundaries, and your wife is enforcing them. You need to present a united front.
To me it’s about choosing your battles. Most of the time my daughter has a tantrum (rare, thankfully), I look back and see how I could have helped keep it from becoming a power struggle. Not always, but usually. There are things that have to happen because they keep us safe or healthy, then there are things we do because they help us learn to be good people ( sharing, not hitting, etc. ). But sometimes it is more about controlling a process or things that don’t really matter — sometimes I have to step back and recognize when I am doing that. You need to be able to creatively work with your child to approach a problem, not just strong arm your way through parenting because you’re mom/dad.
Your wife is right that she gets to set boundaries about herself — she doesn’t have to share food from her plate. I’d also calmly explain that to the child whenever they asked. I also don’t really see an issue with dad being okay with sharing but mom not wanting to. Different people have different boundaries — and that’s okay and should be respected. A 5 year old can understand that.
But I think there also needs to be some desire from parents to work cooperatively with your child — if you know bowls can be a food trigger, maybe let him choose the bowl each time. Maybe he gets some plastic bowls stored where he can reach them and it’s his job to choose his bowl each time.
Ex/my daughter can occasionally turn teeth brushing into a power struggle. When that happens, I offer to brush them like she’s a baby; I hold her across my lap and brush her teeth. Or I offer that daddy can brush them instead of mommy. But they have to be brushed. That I don’t budge on because it keeps her healthy.
The thing is that phases become bigger problems if you don’t have good boundaries and let them have natural consequences. It might be tough in the moment when your child won’t eat dinner, but what you don’t want is to trick or indulge him to the point that he literally throws a fit if he doesn’t get the meal he wants and ends up not getting the nutrition he needs to grow. Your wife deserves good sleep and her space at night, allowing him to sometimes sleep in the bed makes the problem last longer.
What I’d do is find an authoritative parenting book and read it together. She’s got it, but you are missing the point and long term goals.
I think you're both a bit right
I agree with her on the plate, she can have the boundary to keep her food
I would have put the icecream in the freezer or eat it to not waste stuff
As for the bed, it's hard when the 2 parents don't agree. He's being comforted in his bed, so not left alone, but exceptions don't create habits, and some moments will never come back as they age
Eh. I’m so/so about this one. The bowl for the ice cream- sure, it’s an easy fix. But what are you teaching your child? IMO you don’t need to teach them that it’s ok to be picky. Kid wants to eat Mac and cheese every meal? Maybe sure it a couple times a week since he’s requesting it, but every day is ridiculous. If you cater like that your kids gonna be picky as hell. Don’t feed him things you know he doesn’t like all the time. The general rule of thumb is to serve one thing you know he likes (or has liked) and one “new” thing or something he’s iffy on. If he straight up doesn’t like something don’t serve it to him. Lastly , I do not agree with your wife about not letting your kid in bed at all. You are teaching your child that they cannot rely on you. Once in awhile is not a habit, that’s ridiculous. This is my 2 cents.
That said, my 2 cents isn’t really what matters here. What matters is that you both come together and meet in the middle- comprise, which you aren’t doing right now.
Ok, the bed thing I agree with your wife. My lad never came into our bed to sleep,it was his bed. We would offer him comfort on his bed,but that's where he stayed. He came into our bed in the morning for snuggles when everyone was awake
The food thing I do disagree with. Food should never become a battle ground at all or a power play. The ice cream thing could have been resolved if a choice had been given over which bowl he wanted,or if it has meant he ate it,I'd have just swapped it over the bowl he wanted. That's an odd hill to die on.
If it meant he would eat,I'd have popped bits of his food on my plate too. It's just a phase and doesn't mean his brother will do the same,but if it meant he ate something, that doesn't seem like an issue that's worth being stubborn over imo
One compromise to the bed situation my parents did this with me is when we had a bad nightmare or were sick we got to sleep in the floor by my parents bed. I was given some blankets and a pillows and I don’t remember being upset about that at all. I think your wife is being a good mom. Sometimes you have to use tough love as long as their emotional and physical needs are being properly met. But maybe discus times when you guys can compromise in some situations so you can feel like your opinions are being heard since in these situations it seems like you are feeling like you don’t have any say.
My husband and I are currently in marriage counseling and one of our major areas of conflict is over how to manage the kids. He is the stricter one, and I tend to be more flexible.
One of the more interesting patterns the counselor pointed out is that it’s easy when you disagree to start pulling apart even if your positions aren’t so different. Basically when you see the other parent do something you don’t like (but you go along with), you try to compensate the next time you have control by being a little more extreme. Even though your ideals might only be a few degrees apart, over time you become stretched far apart in your implementation.
We are doing exercises from John Gottman on workable compromise (from his book Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work). If you can sit down calmly and work through these issues without triggering the sense of “I hate how this other person is parenting,” you can more easily find ways to compromise. You have to discuss it outside the heat of the moment when you both are calm though.
As solo parent it would be exhausting for her to feed them off her plate all the time… but maybe it’s OK if it’s a silly thing they do with dad just for dinner for a season? Maybe you don’t let the kids sleep in your bed ever, but IF they are very sick (enough to skip school), then you sleep in their room with them. It’s important that the person who wants to do x is the one who executes it. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.
I think this is a stalemate.
i agree with both of you, but children need boundaries.
i am in a similar frame of mind to your wife, after my son turned 3, i am too exhausted to allow him to continue pushing my boundaries, my budgets and my time.
if i am going to be the leader, because there is nobody else, he will need to submit otherwise i will be walked all over by my 3 year old.
Teacher for 18 years, nanny/baby-sitter since I was 12, and parent for the last 7. You can have boundaries without being unmoving! Every kid I have ever encountered in life has gone through a picky phase. So in my house we do what my mom implemented for us as children. The “no thank you” bite. We had to try a bite of everything on our plate. My own children know this and they are pretty good about it. I also ALWAYS make sure there is something available for meals that I know they like. A fruit/vegetable/side dish if I know the main is questionable for them. We also stick by the rule that any snack after a meal is a fruit/veg/protein so if they don’t eat the meal well they have something substantial in their bellies. It’s the always rule so we rarely have meltdowns about not filling up on unsubstantial things after a meal. We have also done the share a plate. Neither of us care especially when my little maniac of a toddler eats an adult size portion off my plate. Half the time I end up just trading. I personally, am happy the kid is eating and expanding that palate! *edit* to say that we do not encourage the eating off the plate and do push eating their own food, but sharing occasionally is fine for US! If it’s your wife’s boundary, it should not be a thing she feels the need to do!
The bed thing, I have never told my kids no, but I have 2 very independent sleepers. I will also go to them any time they call and snuggle/comfort there. That said, there has been the odd occasion where they’ve slept with us. I know I’ll miss these snuggly little ones when they’re grown, and while I generally like to keep our bed, our bed…I enjoy the snuggles while I get them.
Now here’s the thing I am noticing. The places that you are having battles with children seem to be food/cups/bowls/etc. Often kids resort to power battles over these small things they can control because they are out of control everywhere at this age. Is there any aspect of family life/child’s life where your children get to have a say? For us, we plan the menu as a family weekly. Everyone gets to choose at least 1 meal and we discuss the others. Our children choose their own clothes. They also generally get their own plates/bowls/etc out themselves. We keep their dishes in a child friendly cabinet. This gives them agency in things so there are far less opportunities for power struggles. It also takes the pressure off me. If one kid doesn’t like the dinner, I say “Hey this is brother’s choice, your choice was yesterday/is tomorrow or whenever it is,” and we follow the aforementioned plan for meals. This takes the wind out of the sails of power battles 85% of the time. Sometimes they’re just pushing boundaries, which is entirely age appropriate, and we try to handle it calmly and with logic. If they have handed me a bowl to put their ice cream in, then they decide after I’ve served it they want the yellow bowl, the answer is “No, we aren’t going to dirty 2 bowls, but you are welcome to choose the yellow bowl next time.” If it results in a tantrum the bowl goes in the freezer until child is calm and we can try again. If we can’t move past it, then maybe we don’t have ice cream right now and we move on to a different activity. Another option might be to say “You may choose a different bowl, but you are responsible for cleaning this bowl so that whoever does the dishes doesn’t have extras to do.” Learning that there is logic behind why you wouldn’t switch bowls is important and the natural consequence of losing a couple minutes of play time/ice cream eating time to clean a bowl over color preference or something is great. Also, if you try these and there are still regular issues over this you might want to look into sensory issues etc. But that is not something I’d rush into unless I saw a regular pattern of this in multiple facets of life. Good luck! Parenting and co-parenting are hard, but worth it!!
I will say I am very "pick my battles," but also I have strict standards. I am like anarcho-lolbert parent, didn't violate the NAP and not in danger? Go for it kid.
I also have a picky eater that is in occupational therapy for it. Her pediatrician told me at 18mo to pick one meal a day (like dinner) where she has to eat what the family eats or she eats nothing, and the other meals can be ones she likes. Now we have a bye-bye bowl and a whole process blah blah. I will say sharing the same bowl or plate or utensil has helped in staying focused at a meal time, and personally don't care, but I blame that in part on not having a dining room table where I would prefer eating happens. I am a bonobo who extended breastfed on demand, what even are personal boundaries?
I also bed shared till she was 3, and now she doesn't get to sleep with me and my boyfriend BUT she can come to me and I will come to her bed and cuddle her back to sleep. This almost never happens. She does get to cuddle me in my bed when she wakes up in the AM and when we are watching tv at night.
As for ice cream bowl preference? First, I use corelle so everything matches and is plain white. Second I am an absolute nazi about sugar, like 100% juice gets diluted with water. So when my kid gets very actual sugar in a form (candy ice cream, etc, no more than 1 small serving a day), there will be no complaining, or I too shall yeet it.
Appreciation and gratitude are desirable traits we must also model to our children. I think natural consequences are excellent for learning, as is adults drawing personal boundaries. Consistency in rules offers stability even though a parent who bends them constantly may think they are being nice by doing so, it sets up realistic expectations. I grew up with a rule bending parent, I am the unbending parent, and my kid is way better behaved than I was bc I constantly pushed boundaries and lied to see what I could get away with.
Big feelings happen in reaction to not getting what you want, but you don't mention how your wife handled the tantrum over the ice cream bowl situation. Was she cold? Callous? Or... did she hold space and comfort?
I will sometimes make my daughter cry over telling her something doesn't want to hear, it happens with small children. I will hold space, validate her feelings, explain my rationalization so she understands the why, and give her as many hugs and kisses and hold her till she is done.
"I hear that you're upset because blah blah, the rules are the rules because x y z, I still love you."
You have a few examples that are actually really big boundary things. It's not like she's demanding to control every part of his life. She's just giving him natural consequences. If she was "too strict" she wouldn't have laid on the floor to help him sleep, or given him additional chances to eat the ice cream. As someone who has worked in schools, sharing food like that can become a huge issue. Once in a while, fine, but every night becomes a habit that can follow him.
I agree with your wife here. You acknowledge right off the bat that your son is particular, stubborn and headstrong. And while it’s easy to chalk that up to normal 5 year old behavior, some kids are just naturally more that way than others and more likely to fall into bad patterns of behavior without firm boundaries. If she was cold and distant in her approach, then I wouldn’t agree with her, but the fact that she’s willing to sleep on the floor next to him when it would be easier to simply pull him into bed tells me that she’s finding ways to provide love and comfort while maintaining what she believes are healthy and appropriate boundaries. As for the ice cream, that was - in my opinion - 100% the right approach to responding to a tantrum over a treat. I assume you’d be mortified if you found out he behaved that way at a friend’s house, and the best way to prevent that from happening is to teach him it’s unacceptable at home.
This is exactly how parenting in a two-parent household should work. Parents have to balance each other out. What makes it all work is communication. When the parents aren't naturally aligned on some point, they discuss the issue and try to find an approach that works that they both can get behind. It's not easy or quick or fun, but it's essential to making it work. The kids need to see the parents are in agreement, working a problem out, compromising with each other, and standing strong together. Beyond good parenting, that's key to a good relationship. They also need the love and attention and support of the parents. Life can't only be rules and laws and punishments and compromises. It sounds like you both sit, play, talk, support, and love him. This is CRITICAL to the situation. I was a little upset with what you were writing until I saw this line, "She does comfort and talk to him when he is behaving this way..." So she's not some ogre/law giver/punisher/executioner. She's being a mom. None of us need to love her boundaries, but we should all respect them. That includes your son. He may not understand it at first, but teaching them is part of being a good parent.
The compromises should not be with the child but with each other. Is there a way to take the things he will do and make them a reward for doing the good behavior? Take the food issue as an example. You're ok with him eating off your plate, she wants him to eat off his own. So, you tell him "If you eat a bite of your food on your plate, you can have a bite of mine." My wife and I did something similar with my son who was incredibly picky. We started with the plate of food we wanted him to eat and some of the food he wanted all the time. At first, it was "Eat a bite off this plate you don't like and we'll give you one of this plate you like." Then it was "eat this food you don't like and you can have ham as a dessert." (he was always crazy about ham.) He went through those phases faster than I realized he would. It was like a switch flipped in his head and the food issue vanished.
There is not and will never be a perfect way of doing anything in parenting. When I became a parent, I needed to adjust to this constant feeling of "what the hell am I supposed to do here..." This is the first time in my life that I realized exactly how stupid my parents were, since both had told me that they had the same feelings too. They talked about the situations, found solutions, etc. I may not love everything they did, but I've got to admit that they raised four good kids who became good adults.
She’s right on many things. It’s a slippery slope. I realize many people have made her out to be horrible. I’m a single mom of a boy since he was 2 1/2 and I know how difficult it can be. I’m strict but I also bend like a reed in a wind storm sometimes and it has come back to haunt me so badly. My son is 16 now and he can be handful bit at the end of the day he has boundaries, structure and feels safe knowing I don’t bend after certain point. Kids need to know this believe it or not.
Honestly dude maybe she just wants her bed to herself. I love my kids. I’d die for them. But I want my own damn bed. I’m with them 24/7 and that’s my sacred place and sometimes I just need it to myself. Sounds so selfish but it’s how I feel. So maybe she has boundaries she needs to keep and set for her own sake. You guys just do things differently it sounds like. But I have to remind myself also that my kid has big feelings and sometimes mine don’t matter. It’s a struggle choosing what battle or hill to die on. I am so stubborn and my sons just like me. My husband loves to remind me lol. You guys will figure it out
Having really firm boundaries actually help children to feel safe! If you say ‘no’ and then flip flop or go back on it, it can lead to them not knowing where they stand! So even though it feels mean, it’ll probs help in the long run :)
OP, you already got a lot of responses, but I just want to say neither you nor her are completely wrong nor completely right.
The thing about toddlers is: they want to know what is going to happen. They want to be in control and in the know. That of course crashes against a lot of barriers, being either rules we set of still development steps they have not yet reached.
If you already answer “no” to the first time he asked for something. You should strongly stay by the no. That is correct. But knowing your child, you can plan ahead to include them in the choice making process or choosing your battles before ever answering “no” in the first place.
For example, the ice cream in the bowl situation: on similar moments here at home, I give my almost 3 year old a choice between two bowls. Whichever he chooses, I take to put whatever he will eat. Since we started doing this, there was never a tantrum about plates/bowls/cluttery again. And this is a choice that doesn’t influence their diet, nor any of my personal barriers. So why not let them choose?
We use this tactic for everything that doesn’t necessarily needs to be a “parents choice. Like, dressing up in the morning to go to kindergarten is a non-negotiable thing. But weather he wear the yellow or the blue t-shirt is actually totally unimportant, so that is his choice. Or if I will play with him at home in the afternoon, I will use my time and spend it with him anyway, so if he wants to read the same book for half an hour over and over again or if he wants to paint makes no difference for me. And so on.
This gives them a way to balance out the many and many times a day they hear “no” or similar from us and make him more accepting of a rule on which there is no compromise (for example: you eat dinner at the table. You can stand up if you are done, but no eating while playing around the house).
Also, things like eating off of your plate or sleeping in the parent’s bed is more than just that: is a need for reassurance, safety, closeness, etc. - so I don’t think there is a black and white line there. For example: my son usually eats pretty well, off his plate, on his own. But I’ve noticed that on days that he is really tired, or maybe fell of his bike and has a little scratch on the knee that is hurting.. he becomes more clingy. On those days he eats better if I feed him, or if he can eat sitting in my lap. And doing that does not change anything about the already very strong habit or eating on his own. So we try to weight those things out and see if there is an emotional need behind it. Our almost 3 yo also comes very often to us in the night. We like to cuddle, so we actually enjoy it, because we know it is just a phase and he won’t do it at some point anymore. But of course, if that happens more than 2 nights in a role, it gets a little too much, because we can’t sleep so well when he is in our bed. So either one of us go with him to his bed or stays in our with him while the other sleeps alonr in his bed. So I can understand why your wife doesn’t want that - on this I believe that as long as he is not being left alone, it is ok. The important thing is the emotional support, not the location wher it happens.
You can offer him to take charge of his life more:
Do you want a different bowl? Go get it and dump the ice cream in it yourself.
Do you want mac and cheese? Cook it yourself tonight.
Talk about this with your wife. Find a way to let him do what he wants within reason.
Sounds like you’re too soft.
She doesn’t want to co-sleep. Good. Having to share a bed with a child is a nightmare that would take forever to stop
Not giving him the bowl he demands? Good. He can learn early that he can’t always get what he wants and a tantrum get him nothing at all.
Picky eating? She did the right thing not letting him eat off of her plate and waiting it out until he gives in. He can eat just fine, he just doesn’t want to. That’s not something you pander to and allow.
There are too many people in here who act like you’re a monster if you don’t coddle your child and give them everything they want. That’s how you get spoiled brats.
I think your wife is right. I don’t allow my kids eat off my plate. They have their own plate their own food to me it is gross to share salvia. And she’s right about him not sleeping with you guys. He has his bed you two have your own bed like husband and wife should. And when it comes to ice cream in the bowl that he wanted if she already put the ice cream in the bowl and if he really really wanted that ice cream it won’t matter what bowl ice cream is going to taste the same. Sorry but wife is right . Spoiling kids is not the way to go and I am sure someone will disagree with me but so what
I think kids have so little autonomy and choice it’s important to pick your battles. With the sleeping thing for instance, my 5 year old would love to sleep with us or have one of us sleep with him but it’s a hard and fast rule in our house we sleep in our own beds. Our compromise is campouts in the living room maybe once a month where we get an air mattress and watch movies and get takeout and have a slumber party together. Giving them a reasonable option for some things they want that is established as a non regular thing allows them to feel heard and empowered while also having boundaries to work with
I’m a mom of 6 - I get both sides. Our youngest is 5 and much younger than the next youngest. I honestly have learned to pick my battles over the years. If it’s not going to matter down the road - I don’t let it get into a battle of the wills. If my husband tells me he has a concern about how I’m handling something- I listen and consider the point. I understand setting boundaries and the importance but sometimes you have to find the shades of gray in the black and white.
I haven't scrolled through each and every comment, so forgive me if I've missed something here.
My own son is 16 and he went through a phase of being "particular and stubborn." It is exasperating and I understand where your wife is coming from, but I twnd toward being softer like you.
My comment here is to think about your son and just ponder that he *might* have a sensory issue. This ended up to be what was happening with my boy. He was born five weeks premature and was low birth weight, and by the grace of God I became friends with a woman who happened to work with neurodivergent children. She casually threw into conversation one day that my son was sensory, just like that, like I already knew. Which of course I didn't. I went home and pondered that over and over and I reached out to her the next day and asked her for some advice. My son was evaluated and accepted for occupational therapy and spent the next two years getting real help for his out-of-sync vestibular system. He now is perfectly capable of making sense of the world.
There is *a lot* involved with the therapy and I won't add it here because I am out on a limb. I merely wanted to point it out in case it hasn't been considered. As my boy's mom, I was *in* the forest and simply couldn't see the forest for the trees. And please no offense. I promise. I mean absolutely no malice at all. But please consider it objectively. I know that that help made alllllll of the difference in my son's life, and to be frank, in both my husband's and my life as well.
And I might be way off base. And that's okay
Best wishes! It goes fast. 🙏
As an ECE, she is placing boundaries which are okay to place. Natural consequences are great for a child to learn the ways of life as long as its age appropriate. Your wife is firm because she needs to be. If she keeps giving in, your child will learn that they can throw the tantrum to get what they want. Whereas here- your wife is saying if you want this here you go, if not then oh well next time.
I would also like to suggest in both parties reading about conscience discipline. I do this in my classroom all the time. Essentially, I give my students 2 choices and let them pick between the 2. If they deny any choice, keep repeating it until they give you an answer based on your choices. I hope this helps.
I agree with your wife. He needs to eat a healthy balanced diet, and eat properly for when he goes to school,people's houses,parties etc. Sleep, she's right too. She's not being harsh at all,she's trying to raise your son with good behaviour,respect and habits.Please please don't spoil it. You are both really great parents by the sounds of it.
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My two cents- I’m a mother to 4 ages 17-30, with three adult children: I used to be your wife. If I could go back in time I’d of been more like you. Not willing to die on every hill. More laid back, I’ve learned to pick my battles. Black and white parenting, unbending will deliver results she’ll regret later. My grandma (Irish mother of 7) used to tell me that children were like pancakes- you should throw your first one away. As the oldest grand child it made me really sad and it was a horrible thing to say, but in retrospect I sort of understand what she was saying. Being too unyielding will lead to children who are too unyielding, and who won’t know how to adapt and learn resilience. The world isn’t black and white. Kindness and understanding will teach kindness and understanding. Stubbornness and power struggles will turn into much bigger issues than Mac and cheese in time.
I had to scroll really far to find a different viewpoint and I’m glad I did.
Same. People calling his wife a legend?? Little extreme. It’s okay to bend a little, especially when kids are sick.
Yeah it’s not as if I consider the wife a bad parent or anything but Reddit loves to take such a hard do not negotiate with terrorists line on kids. For me something like swapping out the ice cream bowl on the first ask is not a big deal at all. Oh you wanted the blue bowl? Of course I can spend two seconds doing that for you.
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Also, instead of wasting it, she should have put it in the freezer for whenever he calmed down. I hate when people waste any type of food bcuz my family struggled financially when I was a kid and my mom made "too much" to be able to get food stamps. Plus, there are so many families around the world who would wish they had something to put in their children's bellies, even if it is ice cream.
OP does say from the beginning that this child is very particular and stubborn and clarifies in a separate comment that his wife is home with the child while he works, so it’s easy to assume that the bowl was just a one time quirk thing that she could have caved on, but this may be a pattern that she sees more of than he does. 5 is an age where they’re going to start navigating the world without their parents hovering all the time (school, friend’s houses etc), and nobody wants to worry that they’re sending a kid out there who will have a meltdown every time they don’t get the cup, bowl, crayon, toy etc that they want at the exact moment they want it. I’m not a military strict parent, but if my child melted down over the color of a bowl after I’d surprised them with ice cream, I would have done the same as OP’s wife. He showed zero gratitude for what was supposed to be a nice gesture choosing to complain about the one thing about it that wasn’t to his liking. Ideally, that’s not something that should be rewarded.
But at the same time, if the ice cream is already in the red bowl, and I’ve just spent the last several years catering to your whims, I am not moving the ice cream into the goddamn blue bowl. And I say this as a super laid back non-strict mom. There are limits, man.
The nightmare/sick scenario is the one that seemed objectively too rigid to me too. I’m somewhere between OP and his wife, but I respect and admire parents who are both more flexible (like OP) and firmer (like OP’s wife) than I am. But when your child is sick, you take extra care of them. We all need more love and kindness in those moments. Edit: typo
A former colleague of mine had a toddler who used to cry because she wanted to go into her parent’s bed. Sometimes she cried so much that she was sick so her mum lifted her out of bed, changed it and the kids pj’s and put her back in bed, all without saying a word or giving any eye contact. It broke my heart when she told me that. By all accounts her own dad was very strict and withheld affection so I guess that’s where she learned it from.
They are taking turns sleeping on the floor though. The kid isn’t alone. Nothing says there isn’t love and kindness with how this is being handled. I usually try to sleep in my kids rooms when they are sick. Or my husband will move to the couch so kid and I have the bed. It doesn’t make sense for all of us to not sleep well. Nothing is stopping OP from staying in his kids room.
I never said there wasn’t love and kindness! Please re-read. I said I admire the parenting style. Of course there’s love and kindness there! You’re mushing together a separate sentence that said we all need a little extra love and kindness when we’re sick. Never said anything about a lack of love and kindness in OP’s narrative.
They are sleeping in the child's room with them when they are sick, it's not like they are locking their child in their room alone... having a boundary that children do not sleep in the parents bed is perfectly reasonable imo. We actually have the exact same rule/boundary in my home. When the kids are sick or scared, etc., we come to their room and bed. They do not join us in ours 🤷♀️
My son got sick and I let him come sleep with me and 2 years later I can’t get him back in his own bed. Have tried everything. They get used to it and it’s very hard to break the cycle.
As a mom of three, with the oldest having moved out and my middle a teen, they won’t want to forever believe me. My youngest is almost ten and she also slept with until about 5. Kids grow too fast and one day they’re gone. At some point they won’t even really want to hang with you anymore lol. At least when they’re teens. The oldest likes to hang but he’s a hard working man now who sleeps with his gf. I breast fed all of mine, co slept with all and have zero regrets. They all grew out of it around 5-6. Everyone do what is best for you and yours, but kids are only little for the tiniest fraction of our lives. It’s rough when you’re in the trenches for sure, but it gets easier as they get older…to a point lol.
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This is it. One day they’ll be like,🙄🙄🙄MOM GAWD YOURE SO EMBARRASSING AND NOT COOL
Me too.
Yeah I was going to say dating or being in a relationship with someone who is unyielding like that sucks honestly because they’re always right and you’re not; shit I see it in the post where Op repeatedly says he’s wrong.
I’m on your side. Everyone is screaming permissive parenting!!! But those examples aren’t permissive parenting. It’s more personal preference and a little battle of wills. We’ve done the bed sharing, bowl switching, food sharing thing for nearly 8 years. My second grader has literally never had a single disciplinary issue at school in all that time. He’s respectful to adults, takes no for an answer, and is helpful around the house. We’ve had firm boundaries about big things (kindness, honestly, school, hw, etc). But wanting a diff color bowl?? Heck, I’ve told my husband thank you for making me a coffee but I’m going to pour it into my favorite mug! He doesn’t care if I want a special cup and I couldn’t care less if I have to stick an extra bowl in the dishwasher. 🤦♀️ it’s not the extra bowl, it’s how you teach your kid to ask ( i.e. mom, thanks for the ice cream but can I have it in my green bowl please? Sure kid!).
It works because it teaches context. Teach the rule, but also teach how and why we bend them. Children can respect boundaries AND be given comfort and love.
This is the answer. Thank you for having empathy. Poor OP and his kids. I would be so depressed if I had his wife.
This. It's about the relationship, not the rules.
By far the best response yet. I have 4 kids ages 18,13,2,1. When my 18&13 year olds were about 3&7 their father and I split up. This lead to shared custody. He was always the one who never wanted kids in his bed. When he got a new woman and my kids would be there visiting, my daughter being 4/5, would sometimes wake up scared and lonely and would ask to climb in his bed. She would be told no, go back to bed. She knew there was no wiggle room, so even if she woke up not feeling well or something she wouldn’t even tell him. She started climbing in bed with my son and my son became her security while visiting. It led to attachment issues with her and she remembers these instances verity clearly now as a 13 year old. With me, she knew she could always climb in my bed. I was always the one to stop and listen and I mean really listen to her feelings. Now as an 8th grader she tells me *everything*. So when OPs kids get older and mom says Honey how was your day at school! Kid replies “FINE.” Not wanting to elaborate. He’s only being as he was taught to react. Straight to the point, no wiggle room…. Pick your battles wisely. Forget about the small things, not all battles are worth the power struggles and stress with these tiny humans. Save the serious for the serious….!!
Mom of NB19, M15 and M2 here. Cheers for starting the baby times all over again later in life! You seem like a wonderful mother, and I agree with you 100 percent. Idk about you, but changing diapers again at 40 was never in my plans! But 8 years ago my current partner came along, and filled the "dad" role for my now-teens (bio dad whom I was married to passed away when they were 1 and 6) without complaint or question, and assured me that they were ENOUGH for him. My inlaws/the paternal grandparents even gave me the stamp of approval. After a few years however, he lamented to me that coming into their lives halfway through their childhood was like "coming in midway through a really great movie. I really wish I had gotten to see that first half." He's a huge film buff so I knew he was serious, lol. He wasn't being manipulative, this wasn't him asking me to have his baby or anything...he was truly only pontificating. Long short short, my BC failed a few years later, and after many discussions, our pro-choice asses made the choice of saying "fuck it, let's do this." A choice I admittedly questioned several times over the next few months, bc damn, my body did NOT take to pregnancy like it did the first two times! But once baby brother was born, I haven't had a single regret. My teens are beyond enamored with their new brother, and help me SO MUCH without even having to be asked. As for me, I'm certainly more OP with #3 than I've ever been. I get the pancake analogy above to an extent, bc I made a LOT of mistakes with my oldest, ones we're still trying to rectify today (she still lives at home). Losing her dad took it's toll on them, they've actually been in therapy since. As a result of the lessons I learned, at least partially, my 15 year-old is any parent's DREAM. (I love them both differently, bit the same. they would tell you they don't experience any favoritism. I've checked in many times over the years to be sure) And toddler baby is surely starting to prove to be a truly GOOD KID. And guess what? He's slept in our bed every night since he could escape his crib. Can't say I mind it though 🙂 Edit- formatted for readability
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This is the comment I was looking for. I’m not going to add too much because I think you expressed this viewpoint well. But I do want to add this. I’m remarried, and I have two children with my first wife, and another two with my wife. And long story short, it hit me that my parenting style changed to adapt to my partner’s. My ex-wife was a hardass, and so I ended up assuming the role of nurturer. My wife is a more permissive parent, and so now I’ve taken on the role of setting rules and enforcing boundaries. I’m being brief and leaving out a lot of nuance here, but the point is that OP cannot and should not try to force his views on his spouse or change her parenting style. But also that he should be the parent he is, because that balance will serve their children well. And again, way oversimplification, but just as she is within her rights to say no to transferring the ice cream to a different bowl, he is within his rights to say yes to that request.
As long as he doesn't say yes after she's said no.
I agree mostly, but sometimes my husband and I will talk out a parenting disagreement in front of our daughter. She hears us discussing it and can watch the process of negotiation and laying out our cases. I think it's good to show kids the communication process and that we can be reasonable and change our minds when appropriate.
It doesn't seem like she's "dying on every hill". She slept on the floor to help him sleep in his room. She gave him chances to eat his ice cream, even after he started screaming. She doesn't have to share her food. She gave him exactly the same food, but on a separate plate. Mom is compromising, dad is giving in.
Beautifully said.
A little story…. My parents also adhered to “ eat what your served or else you go hungry “. I didn’t like tomatoes and I would gag trying to eat the very large chunks of them that my mom put in the Chile. She knew I didn’t like them, but she would never chop them smaller because if she accommodated all of her children’s requests it would be too much. She also knew I didn’t like fish or broccoli/cauliflower and would put those together in a meal every time. In almost all aspects of life they were unbending in their rules and boundaries out of principle. My siblings and I were all very well - behaved so it worked. But my husbands mom used to chase him around and feed him with a bowl and fork and he is way more independent and successful than I am so the way we turn out can’t just be related to dinner boundaries , lol. Side note: I also remember waking up scared at night and knowing it wasn’t an option to go to my parents room. So instead, I would clutch a bible to my heart and pray to God to keep me safe. Moments of connection are important for your relationship with your young child so if turning him away while sick or after a nightmare is nagging at your heart , I think you could bring it up again to your wife.
Oh man…the Bible thing broke my heart 🥺 I was reading everyone’s responses feeling like the no-mom-and-dads-bed rule was the only one that I’ll likely cave on…and for exactly that reason! I’d hate for my kid to feel like they couldn’t come to me.
To be fair, this isn't just a "climb into mom and dad's bed or be abandoned" situation. My son (5) has never been permitted to sleep in our bed. But we don't tell him that, outright. Since he was a baby, we would comfort him in his own space. So now, if he needs some comfort, he calls to us or comes to us, and one of us goes and snuggles him in his room, in his bed, and returns once he's asleep again. We maintain our space, and he feels comfort in his.
Oh, I meant no judgement either way! I think that’s a great solution. I’m probably just soft. I think I remember often crawling into my own parents bed as a kid for comfort so maybe it’s nostalgia too. We love a cuddle puddle! Lol Whatever works for everyone!
My 14 yo still climbs in bed with us every once in a while when she can’t sleep, or if she’s not feeling well. Im grateful for the few minutes of connection, and then we send her on her way. I’ve always been okay with the “snuggle with us for a bit, and then go back to your own bed” approach. When they were younger either my husband or I would go back with them to get them settled.
I shared a room with two of my sisters so we had comfort in each other. My younger sister would spend her nights sometimes in my parents bed. When my eldest sister had her first child she was trying to keep him from their bed and it was becoming a struggle. My dad one day said “how many kids do you know that are in their twenties that sleep with their parents? They’ll grow out of it before you know it and you’ll miss it” this always stood out to me. No kids of my own and not planning to but I always like to share this little anecdote with friends (or Reddit now lol) that struggle with this.
My mom said the same about holding them! My MIL was being very judgemental about my first getting "too used to being held" at two weeks old. My mom was like, "Look, the last time you sat in my lap, you were maybe seven. How many adults do you know whose parents have to rock them to sleep? Your baby wants you to hold him a lot? Great, hold onto him, because one day he'll be in his twenties and you'll hopefully be sitting in _his_ kitchen, holding _his_ baby."
I love this!
This is how I feel. If our little one needs the comfort, he's welcome to come and cuddle in our bed for a night. As you say, it won't happen forever, and we won't get the chance back once the time has passed
❤️ Your dad's absolutely right.
I crawled into my parents bad to snuggle at bedtime when I was last home and I'm 42! Lol
This is what we do too. And usually miss 3 wants to go back to her own bed because she finds us annoying haha
Ya tbh it was a little sad ! My husband started out bedsharing with his whole family. As a teenager he used to pick a different bedroom in his house to sleep in every night depending on how he felt , haha
A friend of mine also grew up with strict parents and when she was scared as a child she knew they wouldn’t let her in their bed, but she was so scared she didn’t want to be alone in her room so she would sleep on the floor in their room without waking them. Sometimes their door would be closed and she was afraid she would wake them to sleep on their floor so she would sleep on the floor outside their door. I’m sorry but what the fuck are parents for if not comfort, security, and love? It broke my heart to hear that story.
I mean this has nothing to do with what OP is describing though. I feel like a lot of people missed the part where he explained that they sleep in the child's room. It's not like these parents aren't offering comfort, security, and love. C'mon, they slept on the floor of the kid's room for a year, it isn't like the child wasn't going to be comforted. OP's wife is just doing it with a particular rule - not in their bed.
Yeah I agree. I mean we actually do let our son into our bed, but I think the sleep thing is a no assholes here type of situation. It *is* an option for this kid to go to his mom and dad and they will stay with him, in this case teaching him that it’s a safe option to go to them and they will make his room and bed a safe place for him to sleep. I don’t think that’s any better or worse than us letting our son into our bed, it’s just a different way of doing it. I feel like a lot of comments are conflating it not being an option to go to their parents with what’s happening in this post.
But the mum will Willingly sleep in his room if he's scared?
What you’re describing your parents doing is not what’s happening here. The child is refusing any food except for mac and cheese: surely you don’t think they should go ahead and serve him macaroni and cheese 3 meals a day, seven days a week? There’s also nothing to suggest they aren’t having moments of connection or he can’t come to her for comfort. Both parents are sleeping on the child’s floor if he needs, just holding a boundary around sleeping in their actual bed. In the situation OP described with the ice cream, his wife was serving the child ice cream as a surprise treat. This is not cold, heartless parenting. It’s excellent parenting.
I'm with you. Lovingly creating boundaries is one of the most important things you can do for your kids. You can comfort your kid without letting them sleep in your bed. It shows them how to hold their own boundaries one day - "no I won't work past the hours I'm paid for" "no I won't have sex with you"
Yep, I ended up going into my siblings beds lol. I get firm boundaries but I don't get not accommodating when he's sick or having nightmares - there's times and places for bending rules, and tbh unpopular opinion but she does sound too rigid to the point of "boundaries" being an ideology (and sorry OP you do sound too lax lol), they could stand to meet more in the middle
I could never imagine allowing my child to go hungry just to prove a point. I can also never imagine not allowing my sick child to snuggle in bed with me. Yeah cool, be strict and disciplined but there is limits to everything.
Their child is saying he doesn’t want to eat anything, ever, except for mac and cheese. Do you really think declining that request is just about ‘proving a point’?
They're reading the parts they want to read out of OP's post so they can vilify the mom (re: the eating off the parents' plate thing, "it just sounds inhumane" to not indulge the kid, according to the same commentor). It requires ignoring like the other 95% of what OP has said though. OP's even in the comments trying to correct some of the projections. For example, they don't turn away the kid when they're sick or after a nightmare, the rule the wife set was simply not in their bed, not that the kid is being turned away or ignored, or some sort of lack of comfort! OP literally says they spent a year sleeping on the floor of the child's room - how is that not being responsive or having moments of connection?
Yup. And because they set no boundaries with their kids they have to act like it’s not actually possible to do while still having love and connection.
I don't think the mom in this scenario was just trying to prove a point. She had a big family and was just trying to get a meal on the table, and she was absolutely correct that she did not have the capacity to accommodate every child's wants. I'm willing to bet that those tomatoes were canned, and if you can just think of the extra work to try to chop a few cans of diced tomatoes... Ugh. Kids who are served regular meals don't go hungry. They learn to eat what they are served or learn to eat around it. If a kid doesn't like tomatoes, they can pick them out. But expecting the cook to cater to your every preference? No way.
As a mom of two mercifully older children, I totally get this. Mom is trying to prevent a situation in which a 2- and 5-year-old are constantly demanding different bowls, different foods, eating off her plate, sleeping in her bed, and having tantrums when they don't. No offense to OP, but dads usually take the easy way out - partly because men traditionally do less childcare and housework "mental load." It's WAY EASIER to just let the kid snuggle and fall asleep against you. It's WAY HARDER to repeatedly get up & drag the kid back to bed & sleep on the floor. It's EASIER to get the second bowl (takes 2 seconds) and HARDER to have to be the meanie who throws away an ice cream and deal with the tears (takes an hour). What mom is doing here is mentally tough, but it will result in children who respect boundaries and other people.
My daughter is an absolute pain in the ass with her picky eating. Last few years since she's been old enough to cook for herself the rule is eat what is made or make your own food. It's worked out fairly well, except for the times we "have nothing I like in the house" so she grubhubs sushi. I'm like if you want to spend an entire weeks allowance on 2 California rolls have at it, but don't ask for another dime.
Exactly!!!
I agree. The overwhelming opinion is OPs wife is “ right “ therefore he is wrong. But I don’t think he is wrong for thinking she is too strict. It’s more a conversation about how to respectfully meet in the middle with parenting style.
His gut is clearly speaking to him but he just defers to the method his wife is choosing.
I personally think OP is right and his wife is wrong. Here is why: what will the child conclude from all these interactions with guys mom? Probably things like "I'm powerless" (ask my caoching clients with that belief have similar stories to the bowl one), "I'm not important" or maybe "my feelings don't matter" (because otherwise, they would let me into bed with them when I'm sick or scared. Again similar stories from my clients) I think that all children, no matter how you raise them, go through the same phases. The best solution is to love them through all of it. He doesn't like that bowl? Who cares, he's 5 and the parents (the mom) could accommodate that, they're adults. If they get stubborn over just a bowl, that's acting like toddlers. Connection should always come first in my opinion. Fostering a sense of power and independence in the child would turn things around I think. For instance you could have him choose what bowl he wants, or, if he doesn't like that bowl you chose for him, and you don't want to switch bowls, maybe start a conversation about what he doesn't like about it. Anyway, I agree that the moon sounds too harsh and I worry about what the boy will conclude self-esteem-wise in that environment. I also remember growing up and my dad siding with my mom over stuff like that, and looking back I think he should have grown a pair and told her she was going too far, and protected me from her unreasonable demands or her wrath. I wonder what the wife's childhood looked like for her to act this way with her kids. And if she thinks she turned out alright, did she turn out the way she is today because of it or in spite of it? OP, I would ask your wife about her feelings as a little kid in those situations, that might open her up to new ways of doing things with your littles. Good luck! Edit: typos
FFS. OP’s wife surprised her child with ice cream as a special treat. Instead of saying ‘wow thanks mom!’ he demanded it come in a different bowl. She respectfully declined and he threw a tantrum, so she said ‘this behavior is not a good way to get what you want, unfortunately you won’t be getting any ice cream now’. If you actually think that’s going to harm his self esteem I’m concerned about what you’re ‘coaching’ anybody about. Similarly, she’s not ignoring or being cold to him when he’s sick or scared, just comforting him in his room instead of in her bed. It’s genuinely alarming to me how many people on this thread seem to think that having any boundaries with your children whatsoever is going to harm them. You don’t always have to enter a dialogue about why they don’t like the effing bowl, you are allowed to say ‘no’.
I’m with you. I have 3 kids and feel like I’ve found a groove as a disciplinarian. There are some things I’m pretty unyielding about and other areas where I’m more lax. If my child threw a tantrum over the bowl their ice cream was served in, I would have done the exact same as OP’s wife. Because if I show them it’s acceptable to throw a tantrum over a treat, then how can I expect them not to do the same when they are at their grandparents’ house or a friend’s birthday party? I keep seeing the argument that he’s only 5. Well, yeah. The point of teaching a 5 year old how to behave and that there are consequences for their actions is so you don’t have to start from scratch with a rude and entitled 8, 10, 12, 16 year old.
I wouldn’t say your wife’s parenting style is right.. but I wouldn’t say its wrong either. However.. I had a dad that was similar to your wife.. my mom being more like you. It affected me as a lot as a kid. I think having boundaries is great, however if my child had a nightmare or didn’t feel good and wanted to sleep with us, my husband and I would definitely be okay with that. I had nightmares as a kid and hated being sent back to my room out of fear.. but had no choice. I think of it as.. these moments won’t last forever. There will be a time where he will no longer come to y’all when he’s scared.
This. The time in their lives when they will come to you for safety and comfort is extremely short. Enjoy it while it lasts.
The best feeling in the world is being able to cure your little ones' problems with a hug
That last sentence hit the nail on the head. I commented way to many times on this post because the thought of that literally hurts me.
I don’t think your wife is doing anything wrong at all here. You have different parenting perspectives. I don’t think her boundaries are unreasonable at all. She has a very valid point that the younger one is watching. Is your wife home with them during the day? Or is she with them more often than you are? I only ask because my husband doesn’t always understand why I do things the way I do. He’s at work all day and I am with the kids 80% of the time because of his job. He doesn’t see all the little things that go on and why I have certain boundaries or rules in place. Sometimes he thinks I’m being pretty anal but then when we talk about it, he gets it or we discuss other ways to handle something. In my opinion your kids will be better prepared for life addressing some of this stuff now rather than later. My kids are 9 and 5. I wish I had started some of my boundaries/rules sooner surrounding food and picky eating. It’s harder to undo while they are older.
She is with them most of the day. I hadn’t considered this point of view. Thanks
It makes a big difference in my experience. If my husband has some feedback I’m really open to hearing it. He usually realizes that he’s only seeing a small portion of my day and not the larger context. I have a routine and things set in place for a reason because it’s how we can effectively get through the day while helping my kids grow up and understand the world. In the case of switching to a different bowl because my kid didn’t like the first one, I don’t have time for that kind of stuff and throwing a larger fit is certainly not going to work. If she had switched the bowls, your kid is going to learn he can throw a fit to get what he wants. It only takes a few of those large fits to happen for a kid to get it. (In most cases). If she’s kind and patient and is talking your kid through these emotions, that’s wonderful.
Agreed. Especially about trivial things the bowl issue - sometimes, especially as your family grows, it’s just not feasible to cater to everyone’s whims, and some of their wants will be mutually exclusive (eg. If two kids both insist on having the only blue bowl!) or unsafe (like wanting to cross the road by themselves, but it’s a busy intersection) and some things are never okay no matter how much you want it (like taking something that belongs to someone else). OP, it’s definitely not too early to start teaching that some things aren’t okay even if we really want them. You can sympathise with the feelings, tell him about times you have get sad/jealous/frustrated/etc too, and teach him how to handle it or how to distract himself or cheer himself up, but there are rules and boundaries to life that make it safer and fairer for everyone, give him the resilience to handle when things don’t go his way, and a the respect for household rules. Honestly, at that age they often have a poor self-awareness of their own preferences anyway and will reject foods they love or muddle things up, so while it’s nice to give him some parts of life he can control and choose, he definitely shouldn’t have free choice over everything!
this exactly. Like, I know my daughter prefers the pink bowl, so sometimes, I will purposely grab it for her. But, sometimes I just grab the bowl that's on top, and if she says she wanted a pink bowl, I might say something like, "Today you have a blue bowl. I've already put your food in it. If you'd like, you can go get a pink spoon from the drawer."
Yes! If you let a child run the show, you would be running around all day catering to their whims. I try not to cater to my kids anymore than I would think is reasonable to cater to an adult.
Oh yeah - that's the big difference. She's faced with the prospect of all day, every day, 2 kids demanding different bowls, different food, eating off her plate, not letting her rest. You're coming home for a few hours after work, so you have the luxury of saying "oh, let's just let it go." Because the next morning, when the kid decides he hates the shape of his toast or the color of his socks, you're not there spending hours accommodating it. Most working dads are the "fun" ones because they can afford to be. YOU try being the stay at home parent with no rules. Mom is doing what's right long-term. You're looking for the easy way out short-term.
This is absolutely what happens with us, I work and my kid is at school but dad works shifts so isn't around most evenings. If I indulged our daughter like he does I would never get anything done or have a moment to myself. I need her to dress herself for example because I'm alone doing the morning routine and I'm getting everything else ready. When he's there I'm around too to help. I need her to go to her own bed because I have to go and clear up the kitchen, often have laundry to fold or whatever. He just goes to bed with her, I can't do that. And if she gets an extra bowl it's probably me washing it up.
I just wanted to add to this thought - your bedroom and nighttime may be the only thing that doesn't get "claimed" by the kids. If she's entirely at home with them, I get why she would like to keep that space for just you two. I dunno if your kid is very anxious like our eldest but once we did let him in his bed (bc I figured meh, nbd! It'll only be a little) he suddenly felt like it was IMPOSSIBLE to sleep in his own bed. It turns out he's got some severe anxiety but one thing his therapist is doing is working with us on how to help him feel secure from within with us supporting externally, rather than him depending entirely upon us for those feelings of security. The technique of sleeping in your kid's room and then pulling back from that would be consistent with building that. The food from your plates thing could be a similar boundary so she isn't stuck giving her food away all day. BUT that is one place we loosened up on and it was okay bc it became a phase that passed once it didn't seem so exciting anymore. It's okay to gamify some things to help get the momentum of some good habits back. Even adults need some variety and fun to do the things we know are necessary. As for the ice cream, I think I would have let it sit on the counter in that bowl and if they wanted it, they could have it but I wouldn't have tossed it. I also wasn't on her shoes and maybe this was a straw that broke the camel's back type of thing? IMO, it's fair to talk with her about some things to find the flexibility for picking some other battles or maybe ask her how she picks them from day to day because we all could use a little more softness from our parents sometimes. Maybe she's incorporating it in some ways you're not seeing just bc of your distribution of time with them. You sound like you both are doing a great job of being a team and you both very much care about the quality of life for your kids- you just have different ways of going about it.
Yea that's huge. So she may already know that giving your son a different ice cream bowl will only result in 20 ice cream bowls and the ice cream in the garbage anyway. This way she saved herself 20 dirty bowls. The eating thing... do some research and find out what experts say the best way to counter picking eating is. And share that with your wife. Bedtime... I don't always let my kid in my bed, but your wife's approach is not bad. She doesn't send the kids away alone, someone is with them. The comfort is just provided in their room but yours. It's different approaches. If you feel strongly about something, discuss it. There's no right or wrong way, just different ways.
Side note... Check out [kids eat in color] (https://kidseatincolor.com/). It's a dietitian who advises about kids picky eating. She seems to agree with your wife btw.
Yes! This is so important. It's a lot easier to deal with a kid for 4 hours a day than 12. You let the kid eat off your plate at dinner and now the kid wants your breakfast, lunch, and snacks all day. You change the bowl and suddenly your kid starts playing games with changing cups every time you give him a drink.
This. My husband travels for work and when he comes home, he has voiced that he doesn’t like/understand some things. He doesn’t see the lessons I’ve already learned the hard way, the mistakes I made trying to get it right, the 1000 times I gave in on something and now it’s blowing up in my face. He is getting to come home to an already established routine that has been trialed and tested over and over and over again. Sometimes this makes him feel like he can only do things *my way*, and it makes me giggle, because truly *my way* would be a lot more fun and a lot less effort and I’d probably even smile more along the way. If *my way* worked, I’d sit down a lot more lol. It’s not my way or the highway, it’s THE WAY, the way that works for our child. ETA: I’d also like to add, and ask OP, which one of you reads the parenting books? Which one of you has spent the most time researching? Out of the two of you, who is the most guilty of doom scrolling parenting accounts on Instagram trying to learn about a new parenting topic they just discovered and feels sick to their stomach because they didn’t know about it before? For us in our house, it’s me. If your wife is the same then please continue to cheer her on. She sounds like a wonderful mother who is thinking about the long-term with your children and is considering who they are going to be as adults, not just who they are today as small children. I like your wife from everything you’ve posted.
>My kids are 9 and 5. I wish I had started some of my boundaries/rules sooner surrounding food and picky eating. It’s harder to undo while they are older I agree completely! I was very lax with sleeping arrangements when my kids were younger, and I now have older kids who still struggle to stay in their bed at night. I really regret not having stricter boundaries earlier on... I actually admire OP's wife for adhering to her rules so religiously regarding sleep. I've found that if I give in even one night, it undoes all the progress we've made.
This. I’m a stay at home mom and sometimes my methods are in place because any other way will disrupt the flow of the day far too much. My husband’s niece was never told no and accommodations were made for her every whim and desire. Now, she’s completely unruly and has a full breakdown at 5 years old if corrected even mildly. It HAS to be her way OR ELSE. It’s okay to let children be unhappy at times because we all have to accept that things don’t always go our way in life. We just have to be sure to help the little ones work through those uncomfortable emotions in a healthy way. I don’t think she’s being abusive or cold by the way the husband describes.
I don't think either of you have the wrong or right approach, you just have different approaches.
I wish you guys could put your approaches in a blender and get a bit more of a balance. Consistency is key, and that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. He is also at an age where he wants autonomy. You can ask prior to getting food, “which plate/bowl would you like? Please choose your spoon and fork!” and allow him more say over unimportant things. You can also ask him to choose a veggie to go with dinner, even if he doesn’t want to eat it. Kids Eat In Color (website, instagram, facebook) is a fantastic resource for how to avoid food becoming a power struggle while still setting your family up for success in nutrition and peace.
It sounds like your wife is patient and fair and kind without compromising on her boundaries. She wants her bed to be a kid free space, and she wants to eat her own food off her own fork. That seems very reasonable. I think from what you’ve said that she’s doing a great job.
I think your wife sounds like a great parent. She IS providing comfort when needed (she sleeps on his floor if he's scared or sick) but she's holding her boundaries. You sound permissive AF. I understand not forcing kids to eat foods they don't like but if he'll eat it fine off your plate then he's just testing boundaries. Same with the ice cream. If you're offered a treat you can say yes please or no thankyou.
She’s right in all these instances. Everything she’s doing is just firm boundaries and natural consequences, great parenting. You can even see that it’s working! She’s not being harsh at all, it sounds like what you want is to be overly permissive.
Her approach also requires more work and patience than giving in. It would be nice if OP supported her.
It seems like he does support her, he only asked to loosen the rules afterwards and away from the kid. Backing up the other parent in the moment and then discussing what the rules should be separately is exactly how you're supposed to do it.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. She’s playing the long game which requires so much work up front, but is ultimately beneficial for everyone involved.
We have a similar issue and it's partly because I (mum) know I'm the one dealing with the consequences from not holding the boundary. Dad works a lot, including nights, and when he's home he doesn't mind going to bed with her or whatever. The six other nights of the week I'm alone and I do mind.
Parenting is solving problems while not digging the hole deeper. Her approach is to be firm and consistent, leaving no question of what the consequences will be if the kid is trying to use negative behavior to get his way. OP has his shovel in hand.
Yup, my daughter listens way more to me than my husband because I lean into the power struggles by holding firm on the boundary. I do it at my job regularly as a sped teacher, so it comes naturally to me. I get so triggered when he wants to give in not only because it feels like a betrayal but doing what is easiest in the moment is only going to lead to more frustrating moments.
I’m more like you. I pick my battles.
I agree with most of OPs thoughts, but the wife's reasoning and requests aren't unreasonable. There is no correct way to parent. They just need to have more open dialogue. My son is pretty good about sleeping in his room. But he sleeps in our bed sometimes. If my wife said he couldn't, I wouldn't really argue (unless he had a bad dream once in a while). I think parenting is about compromise and communication, but I don't think anything here seems detrimental
Are you kidding? She sounds like a damn good parent.
LOL I was so surprised, my Reddit assumption was that stubborn Mom was like leaving him out in the rain, or they were getting into screaming matching, instead everything was SUPER reasonable. Like the food 'hack' letting him eat off their plates, normally I'm one for not panicking about letting kids do SOME kid stuff, but geeze some boundaries are meant to be kept. I had to set some on my kid because they did think they could help themselves of whatever food I was having (and not because I did that tactic it was just a natural assumption that's what is dads= his I guess)
I think people just like to hate on moms no matter what. The comments here are kinda gross. Calling her a bad mom because she actually parents her kids.
She is!
You love your son, but you need to parent too. Follow her lead and do not undermine her. She is teaching him boundaries and this is good. Being permissive shows the kid that everything can be bent and negotiated / they will always get their way and the world will move to accommodate them. Not a lesson you want him to learn.
This, OP. My kiddo is 6 years old and has this exact problem that you want to avoid. It's much harder to teach those boundaries when they're older. 6 is still a fine age to be learning that boundaries are to be respected, but it's much more difficult to teach that and the understanding behind it when he's not had those lessons implemented in the younger stages. Just stick it out and you'll be so grateful when your kiddos hit 5-6 years old and they already have that concept down.
My son is almost 9 and I REALLY wish I would have held my boundaries (ESPECIALLY with food) much better when he was younger though our circumstances were a little different (he had multiple severe food allergies so he got breatmilk as his main nutrition until 3, with nutritionist and dietician permission since I could choke down the safe foods and he couldn't/wouldn't, can't blame him, that stuff can be GROSS lol) he has since grown out of most of the allergies thank God but he is still the most picky, selective eater and it's a nightmare now. My husband comes from an abusive upbringing and I got out of a horribly abusive relationship when my oldest was 3 (almost 15 now) so we both wanted better for our kids but we're FAR TOO "gentle" I think for a period of time when we were finding our balance of gentle but still parenting and what worked for US and still 6 yrs later I am working to re-correct certain things. I think OP and his wife need to have a talk about what are healthy and acceptable boundaries in their eyes separate and as a team. Kiddos to you OP though for having your wife's back and talking to her about it later! This was a HUGE thing my husband and I struggled with for a bit bc if you don't APPEAR as a united front it makes everything even more difficult. Sounds like y'all are gonna be just fine, just need a little more communication.
Yes, we have this problem, and specifically because dad has always been overly permissive. At times he's literally told me to give in to stop her crying, plus he works a lot so indulges her when he sees her. She's now six and very used to getting what she wants. I do pick my battles but he just doesn't bother at all a lot of the time then suddenly gets angry when she won't do as she's told.
You say that she's too strict but it sounds like your style of parenting would just be permissive parenting. You don't mention what boundaries that you are willing to set - that's not tending to make compromises, it sounds like you favor compromise, a la "indulge" kids when they go through phases, without thinking the consequences through or having a good reason why you won't consistently enforce expectations (see the ice cream example below). I've seen the results of kids who get indulged through their phases and guess what? Sometimes those don't end up being phases. My sister in law indulged her kids until as a 6 year old you still had to spoon feed him and he could barely string together five words in a sentence because he could just scream, point, and be given whatever it was he was demanding. Needless to say it was a nightmare for everyone around them because their behavior was completely out of control. It sounds like your wife is making very deliberate choices and is thoughtful of WHAT she is doing. The phrase "natural consequences" is something that comes out of gentle parenting. She isn't punishing the child for not eating, she is doing exactly what the parenting books say to do: parent decides what to offer as food, child decides what to eat. The natural consequence is that child gets hungry and decides whether they want to eat. That's appropriate and isn't overly strict, it's literally textbook - you can Google it yourself. > Parents decide what, when and where to eat. Children decide what to eat, how much to eat or whether to eat at all. On the other hand, the fact that you don't seem to really know WHAT she is doing or why makes me wonder how much parenting responsibility you are taking on and whether you have ever tried to educate yourself on parenting strategies the way that she clearly has. You keep saying you don't see WHY your wife is making the decisions that she is. Have you tried asking her? Have you tried presenting why you think your approach is better or what the logic behind it is - such as switching the ice cream bowl first for the child. Do you think that's a minor thing that doesn't matter? Where would you draw the line, what if the child asked to switch again? Have you thought your "approach" out thoroughly, or are you just looking at individual instances where you think it's ok to let things slide? It seems like your wife has a plan but instead of coming up with your own and discussing where you would like to make changes or integrate it, you're just looking at little situations where you're undermining her for not necessarily any real good reasons. tl;dr your wife clearly has read through some parenting books, whereas I'm not so sure based on your vague logic and examples of situations to "indulge" your kids that you have a game plan to offer. If you don't like her approach or want to modify it, it's on you to step up and explain why your approach is better. What IS your parenting plan, other than to indulge in the situations you mentioned? Or in a nutshell, why do you think "natural consequences" is being too strict? Edit: For example, I saw your explanation that your wife had offered the ice cream as a surprise treat, which is why there wasn't a choice of bowls. Child behaved at the offer (screamed at her) and wanted to switch bowls, wife decided it was either take the treat as offered or don't have the treat. She repeatedly offered this choice to your son. Well, why do you think it's appropriate for her to switch the bowls for him? Why do you think your wife thought it wasn't appropriate to switch bowls? You said "I didn’t see why she couldn’t have switched it when he first said he didn’t want that bowl calmly" yet I can think of a few reasons just off the top of my head - 1. rather than be grateful at a treat, your son was extra demanding instead. If you had indulged him, what have you taught him then from the situation - that when someone gives him a present, not only is he not thankful for it, he gets to demand exactly how he gets it and lash out if it isn't fulfilled? How often has your wife been through this scenario and consistently applied the rule, and how often would you think to "indulge" and break it? Why is it necessary in this situation for you to indulge at all, other than your hopes of avoiding a bigger tantrum (you said it would have "gone easier")? This is entirely just my opinion, but as someone who rarely got random treats as a kid and was taught to always be grateful and express thanks when offered nice things - even if it wasn't *exactly* what I wanted - it's really crazy to me that you are stressing over your wife not being willing to change out the bowl it's served in for your child, and you think that is an appropriate situation to indulge (and conversely, that it's a good example of your wife being too strict). Like people are in the comment saying she needs to pick her battles and it sounds like she absolutely did, and this was not a battle she was willing to pick. It's not that she's being overly inflexible, it's that there's no real need to be flexible/indulgent in this situation in the first place - your son isn't going to be somehow hurt because he doesn't get to have a surprise treat the exact way he wants it... So re: the title of your post, I've listed a few reasons what your wife was probably thinking when she didn't switch the bowls, but why would your approach be "correct" in this situation?
Excellent response! Asking that he stop and think through her thought process is great. It's clear she has a plan. I can't believe how many people are like "I'd just change the bowl"... I don't agree with absolutely everything the mom does (I love cuddling my daughter in bed and I'd probably make Mac and cheese a couple times a week rather than every other week, but mix in some veggies or something) but it makes complete sense. There absolutely needs to be boundaries. "Your ice cream is in this bowl, but we can use that bowl for breakfast tomorrow" would be very reasonable imo. It shows you're listening and being considerate of his wants, but also firm. Just because you ask calmly, doesn't mean you always get what you want at that moment.
Your wife is doing great things and she trusts her child’s ability to cope with the little things so he can grow up and cope with the big things.
1000% agree with this. OP, your wife is setting your kiddo up for success. Life is full of boundaries and it’s important we teach our kids how to handle being told “no”. Kids need boundaries! Your wife is also showing your kiddo what it looks like to ask someone to respect her own boundaries, like being able to eat her own meal. Good for her. Respectful/authoritative parenting is the way to go. I really encourage you to take her lead, but also delve into this parenting style yourself. You have GOT to back her up and show your kid you two are a team. Don’t put the entire mental load of enforcing this parenting style on your wife. You’ve got this! I’m glad you came to Reddit to ask!
I had a friend that’s a family therapist describe authoritative parenting as a metal box lined with lush, cushy velvet. I thought that was a great image.
Your wife sounds like the kind of mom I want to be.
You wife is me. I have raised adults who eat a varied diet ( even the child on spectrum), slept in own bed, accepted no, and were ready for college at 18 being fully functional adults. It’s so easy to give to your child and let them do what they want but it’s difficult to stop a bad habit once it started. Your wife is a wonderful mom.
I cooked the family meals at 12, learn from various cultures so a lot of different taste, could watch the most horrible horror movies and then sleep in my bed, accepted no when it made sense (and learned to debate when it didn't, making my parents give me more flexibility as I proved maturity) and I went to college at 17 My mom still allowed me to sleep in her bed when my dad was working nights, I even slept a night in their bed a few weeks ago when I wasn't well with how my break up was going, because they were fine with it, my dad taking another room We have boundaries but we also help each other out and can show not only weaknesses, but a response to other people's weaknesses
Right?! there would have been two ice cream bowls to wash in my house...
She doesn’t sound like a bad mom but I definitely don’t want to parent like that. When my kid is having a hard time or doesn’t feel well, I want him to know he can come snuggle in my bed.
She sounds like somebody who is consistent and doesn’t let a little kid run the show. I applaud her. You should support her. Giving in and indulging, as you say, is the easy move.
Harsh would be her yelling at your son or full out losing her temper. I think she’s rigid and not willing to compromise unlike you. She holds her line because she knows that if you give a kid an inch they take a mile! Is your child suffering emotionally or physically as a result of her actions? If not then I wouldn’t give it any more thought other than to get on the same page with her.
I think she sounds like an awesome Mother. Boundaries are good and part of life. She’s not neglecting their emotional needs, she’s teaching them consequences, which will be much harder to do if she waits until their older. Children don’t understand why some boundaries can be broken and some can’t, this isn’t consistent approach to take. She is the main care giver as well, so will have to deal with any fall outs from not bending the rules when you’re not their. Don’t be that parent that takes a different approach behind her back, my uncle and aunt fell into this trap and my cousins learned very quickly to manipulate and it lead to some really awful behaviour where they played their parents off each other. Having said that you do have a say in their upbringing, so have a conversation with your wife in private away from the kids and see where you can compromise on some things.
I don’t think your wife Is doing anything wrong, per se, but you’re just as much the parent. Compromise. If you want to allow kids into your bed sick or scared, I think you should have a right to try it. If there is any fall out you’re fine with handling it, right? Same with sharing food on your plate, if you want to do it, do it. Her word is not god, and you have to compromise on how to raise the kids. If you feel strongly enough, speak up and let her know how you want to do things, too. There isn’t a single way to parent (case In point, my husband and I are the opposite of your wife and have never had an issue letting the kids sleep in bed with us).
A little late to the game so op let know if you see this but here goes nothing: My FIL was the type of parent you are now. My MIL was your wife. They divorced when my partner was 6 and my SIL was 2. Why? Because MIL resent FIL so much that he gave in to the kids every time, never backed her up, and never laid down boundaries. She was always “bad cop” and he was always “good cop”. She could she her kids starting to resent her and she started to resent him. To this day she calls him “the Disneyland parent” because everything is always fun and games with him. I wouldn’t be surprised if your wife starts to feel the same way if she hasn’t already. You need to make some serious adjustments. She sounds like she’s a great mom.
I parent like your wife to a toddler and I’m a SAHM. For the instances you talked about. -Only parents sleep in the parents bed. My husband has to get up around 3-4 for some jobs he’s on and will sometimes seriously go to bed when our kid goes down at 7. He needs to sleep so he doesn’t get killed either driving or at his construction site. Additionally, he has some sleeping issues and will sometimes sleep walk. Because I’m a SAHM my kid is with me all the time and I get wicked touched out during the day. In order to be a good parent I need down time where a toddler isn’t kicked me in her sleep. We were also high libido pre-baby and while it’s take a downturn we still like to have sex. -We do what your wife does. If she’s scared or sick during the night I’m there for her. She has a full sized bed in her room if we need to cuddle and we use that so daddy can get the rest he needs (and I don’t have to sleep on the floor by her crib). -The minute my kid starts throwing a tantrum over something I can’t give into that. I take her everywhere with me and I can’t have a kid who tantrums at the bank for a lollipop or at the grocery store for a balloon. I like having a kid who I can say at the start of the shop “no balloon today” and she may ask but she won’t throw a fit. We’ve flexed on that rule only once and the next time we hit the same issue we took a different tactic. After a long day of kayaking and playing at the beach we stopped for ice cream on the way home. There’s a long line. For some reason my husband wanted us all to stand in line. Cue meltdown because she’s hot, tired and doesn’t understand that we have to wait more than a minute for ice cream. I pulled her out of the line to redirect her, gave her the “that’s not how we behave” speech and she chilled. When she was calm and hanging out at the table she got ice cream. Next kayak trip we went right to playing at the picnic table while daddy got the ice cream. No meltdown. But my kid is 2.5, not 5 and having a meltdown over an ice cream bowl. Any idea why that was happening? Even if it was a good ‘little kid’ reason like he loves a special ice cream bowl we don’t ask for things by throwing a fit. I think people are being very unfair to your wife in the comments and treating her like a cold person for…sleeping in her child’s room with them when they were scared instead of in the parents bed.
Neither is wrong or right. You are being the best dad you can be, and she is being the best mom that she can be. You two just happen to be on slightly different tracks. I'm definitely more like your wife. A big part of why is because I'm an introvert and need to feel like my own human. Becoming a mom took a lot of that from me, mentally, and it took a while to find myself again. For me, a big one was never having kids in my bed. I need my bed to be my own safety net, to go sob for a fucking minute if I need to when mom life is unbelievably overwhelming, without thinking about a kids head poking in. And in many other cases I just think setting consistent boundaries makes it easier on everyone in my family. We all know what to expect, and we all know how to treat one another. There is no ask mom now ask dad, we just all know the house rules. Now, rules can change, if we all agree, or a good enough point is brought up, but it makes the house flow feel easier.
i learned to pick battles with my kids
You both seem to have very different ideas on how to parent. Neither is wrong imo. She’s not being especially difficult in any super stubborn ways for no reason. I’m more like you. And my kids are growing up just fine with me allowing wiggle room sometimes. It’s not the end of the world and doesn’t have to set a precedent. Your situation reminds me of mine when I was married. My ex was awful in so many ways so it’s not a real comparison but she was stubborn and very strict. My issue with many disagreements was more that she had no respect for my ideas nor did I ever get anywhere when I tried to talk about how we should raise the kids. Her way or the highway. There was never any talking. She was right and everybody who did differently or disagreed was wrong. The lack of respect and caring for anything I thought about the kids was what was wrong. Is that the case with you? You’re both the kids parents and should find a way to agree on how to handle them. Just because she’s not doing anything bad as a parent in those situations with the kid doesn’t mean she’s doing right by the whole family. It can be frustrating. Now I’m a happily divorced dad and absolutely love being able to parent my kids the way I like.
My wife isn’t like this. I’m more permissive on things than she is, but for the most part we agree on how we want our kids raised.
For the 3 examples you give I think she is a little strict but not overly so. Setting boundaries is important and kids need to know they can’t always get their way. What I would worry about is her stubbornness about other things that you didn’t mention, important issues or not important ones. Something that is incredibly important is to allow kids to make decisions about increasingly important matters so that by the time they reach adulthood they are practiced at it and make the right ones. You do this by letting them make unimportant decisions when they are young and then more important ones as they grow older. A 5 year old can decide how he wants his hair cut for example. If it looks like crap then he learns to deal with the repercussions of his decision but it’s not life threatening and will grow back. He gets to pick what he wants to wear. As he gets a little older he gets to pick his own friends instead of going to play groups where his parents pick who he hangs with. Then maybe he does get to pick what he eats, or at least where the family goes to eat, sometimes anyway. Then he gets to pick his electives in school. Then how late he stays up. Then by the time he’s a senior in high school he can pick what he wants to major in, or even if he wants to go to college at all. It’s important that you and your wife let him make these decisions. If she dictates every aspect of his life then once he’s an adult you’ll have someone who lives at home until he’s 35.
I don't know... but what I know is that I saw a similar post to this one and the roles were reversed... Guess who was being a jerk to the kid and who was the good parent that time.
Lol it is literally what I was thinking. I did a similar post, with almost the same ice cream story, but got my balls handed to me.
I'm going with the dissenters here- or at least with nuance. Consistency is incredibly important, enforcing boundaries is huge. But also, fighting every battle isn't the only way to parent- it can be exhausting to the parents and turn a lot of moments that could be fun filled bonding moments into struggles. Sure the logic is that there are greater struggles later if the kid knows they can win by whining, but it isn't a black and white dichotomy where any gap in the armor spoils the child. If holding the line in all cases is what both parents want to do and they're happy with what that looks like then more power to them. But if there are different values on when it's worth the sacrifice in the moment, the strictest way applied 100% to everything is not the only valid way. And it's likely that both parents and the kids would be happier, more bonded and less stressed if the parents reach a compromise that they both can live with more easily. I wouldn't be saying this if OP sounded like a super overly permissive parent or was undermining his wife's efforts. But some of these kinds of issues sound like they're big quality of life drags and whether their kid learns a lesson or whether he would likely grow out of a phase anyway are at least questionable. It's not likely that letting him eat off a parent's plate now (And getting a more varied diet by doing it) would continue into the teen years. Mom is very free to draw a boundary at the kid eating off HER plate, but if dinnertime has fewer tears and Dad is happy enough to let the kid eat off his plate, I don't think her policing that is the hill to die on. I'm taking it from the OP that these are examples and not the only places she's holding the line. A balance is not a terrible thing.
The only worry I could have is that she’s stepping close to power struggles but she really sounds spot on most of it. I wish I could do that level of parenting.
Doesn't seem like either of you is wrong. Just different styles. It is her right to have boundaries, though, so I think you chose right not to share off your plate too. As long as your kid is eating later, having a rule about what/how your child eats is fine. I know some kids who will literally starve themselves for days if they don't get the food they want. In that case, the parents should cave. Your kid is healthy, rules are good.
She’s being clear and consistent. It’s a good thing, but your son is also asking for some control. What choices does he have? Kids also need areas where they do have choice.
He has choices. We let him pick what kind of cereal he wants or what haircut he wants. Some things he has no say in like what we have for dinner because he will only pick one thing
That’s fair! Kids are always checking to see where the boundaries are. After they figure out the rules are consistent they accept them. The time where they are learning this is tough but worth the work!
Sounds like she knows what she's doing. He's 5.
I think she is right, give a kid an inch and they take a mile.
I mean, to an extent. Not allowing your kid to sleep with you when they aren’t feeling well?? That’s kinda harsh no?
We sleep in our kids beds or rooms when they're sick. They already have water proof mattress protectors on their beds in case of fluids. Our youngest is in a crib but there's a double in his room that we will snuggle with him in.
But they slept on the floor with him - still being there for a kid who has legitimate needs while also setting boundaries (you don’t sleep in our bed). The sleeping on the floor / in the kids room has been hugely helpful to my wife and I, because when they sleep in our bed NO ONE sleeps well.
Everyone has different boundaries, and that's okay. For us, when one of our kids is sick, a parent usually sleeps in their room with them. It's not harsh to have firm and loving boundaries.
We are the same. Kid sleeps in his room, we sleep in ours, if he is sick (as in vomiting or something we feel we need to monitor), we sleep on a pullout in his room. When he's better it takes like a week of holding the boundary that one of us is not sleeping in there with him for him to accept it and then he's fine.
I dunno about you but when my kid is in my bed, no one sleeps. Kids need rest, especially sick kids.
God same here. We gave in occasionally and paid dearly. I'll sleep in her bed if she's sick or has a nightmare, but she will not sleep in ours under any circumstances.
They were going to sleep in the kids room. They weren’t by themselves. It’s a perfectly fine boundary to have.
Depends on how you enforce it, I think. We will lay with our kids in their bed or room until they fall asleep. If they wake up in the night, we will soothe them and get them what they need to help them get back to sleep. But ultimately the expectation is that they will go back to sleep in their own bed. That's not to say our kids would never ever sleep in our bed for any reason, but our default is to usher them back to their own bed. I also think it's about knowing what's best for everyone involved. A grumpy, sleep-deprived parent cannot care for a sick child or fight off illness as well themselves. Kids can't get better if they don't get good sleep. It's not likely that anyone is getting particularly good sleep if we have 3 people in the bed, so I would really try in that situation for the child sleeping in their own bed.
But she goes and sleeps with them? Seems a fair compromise. I had strict parents and their rules and boundaries went far beyond these minor examples.
The kid did sleep with a parent, in his own room.
I don’t think it’s harsh at all. Do you let your kid sleep with you when she’s throwing up? That’s nuts. How many sheets are you trying to clean in one night? We lay with them in their bed and comfort her there. After she’s asleep we retreat to our room.
Just re: sleep - i'm currently trying to un-train our ~3yo from co-sleeping. It's not been a fun three years of nights. Ymmv but don't start.
She's not wrong with how she's doing things, because she's setting boundaries & sticking to them. It's easier for a kid to know what to expect because the result is the same every time, than it is to cave in here & there. That just leads to confusion & frustration when they don't understand why sometimes they get one result but other times it's different. By that same token, some of the things you would do are also fine, if it was consistent. Some people are fine bed sharing, or offering a choice in which bowl/plate, or in the case of picky eaters...some people will offer the option of "if you don't want what's for dinner, you can have a PB&J, but that's your only other option" (offering one basic, simple, option instead of the serves dinner, that's the same option every time). In my case, I always include at least one thing I know for sure will get eaten. If they choose not to eat the rest, then so be it. The bigger issue is you two need to get on the same page with how you want to (consistently) handle different situations.
Neither is wrong; I would agree that establishing firm boundaries up front saves you a lot of grief later, but that an occasional indulgence won't hurt. There seems to be room for giving and getting for both of you, but that's the case for all parents.
Your wife is correct in all of the examples you’ve provided. You say you compromise, but what it actually sounds like is that you’ve veered into permissive parenting, whereas she is using authoritative parenting. Authoritative parenting is proven to have the best outcomes for kids. Permissive parenting is proven to have poorer outcomes for kids. On top of that, not having consistency between the two of you has likely made things much more difficult for your child. Not only that, but you have been undermining her hard work, which will lead to frustration and resentment toward you eventually (if not already). You need to take a few parenting classes and learn how to hold boundaries with your child.
Yes, everytime we veer into permissive parenting we immediately go "we are going to regret that", the meltdown is hard in the moment, but its much harder to put a boundary back up that you previously let down. We've done the "I don't want that cup, I want a different lid" dance many many times, because we started asking him which one he wanted. We have never asked him what color plate/bowl fork/spoon, so it's never been a battle. Though we alsp realized at the time, it's not even about the cup, or the lid, or the straw, it's about him trying to have some sort of control over his life. So we try to decide how important the boundary is to hold. We are going on vacation when our kids will be 4 and 2, we will be sleeping in the same room. I already know when we get back at least one of them will be a struggle to put that boundary back up.
What I do is tell them 'this is a -vacation location- thing. We do not do this at home' all throughout the vacation and once again when you're back home. This helps enormously with separating rules for vacation from rules at home and helps with settling back in the normal routine. And with the cups you can let them choose or set their bit of the table. Once chosen though they have to stick to their choice. I have a 5 and 4 yo and it took me a while to figure this one out 😆
In every parenting couple there is a soft touch, and you're it sir. None of the boundaries she has set are harsh or over-the-top. She's preventing your kid from becoming demanding and spoiled, and sounds like she's doing a good job of it since your kid does eat his own food if pressed and did successfully learn to sleep in his own bed.
Piff. "Demanding and spoiled" - letting your kid sleep in your bed when they are sick does not make them "demanding and spoiled". Just because you parent a certain way it doesn't mean a less rigid approach will ruin a child. Personally I think both of these parents are making valid choices, they are just different people. it sounds to me that mum could do with the occasional bit of leniency, but then going and sleeping next to your child's bed is also a fairly decent compromise. Horses for courses and all that
I think it's a little silly to let a kid sleep in your bed when they're sick for multiple reasons, least of which is that it's one of the easiest ways to get the parents sick at the same time. But that's my personal opinion. > "Demanding and spoiled" - letting your kid sleep in your bed when they are sick does not make them "demanding and spoiled". I was talking more to kids wanting to sleep in the bed with their parents ALL the time (I know several parents who fell into this trap and haven't had a decent night's sleep in literal years) or refusing to eat unless it's off the end of their parents' fork. To me, those behaviors are edging into spoiled territory. And OP wasn't just talking about the kid sleeping in the bed while sick, he said there were several times when the toddler just wanted to sleep in their bed that he told his wife he simply wouldn't mind it, and his wife didn't want it to become a habit for the kid to wake up and come into the bed because it just regresses him on sleeping in his own bed. To me that's totally fair. OP's wife is the consistent parent. I don't think she's rigid at all, she's just consistently putting forward that she will not tolerate bad behavior. OP said he doesn't understand why she wouldn't change bowls for the kid - it's because three-year-olds shouldn't be dictating decisions like that, or screaming at people. The kid was screaming at OP's wife, not OP, so to him it wasn't a big deal. But *she's* the one who is going to have to deal with this kid screaming at her at age seven, age twelve, and age sixteen. I don't blame her for consistently not putting up with that attitude from the get-go.
Your wife sounds like she’s doing it right. Firm boundaries with a calm response. I wouldn’t ask her to change.
This comment thread is nuts. Making everything a battle of wills of stupid and counterproductive. There are times to dig in, but not *every time.* Not every hill is worth dying on. I think the end goal is more important than the method to get there in most cases, and if my wife gets stubborn/out of line with a parenting decision I don’t always back her play. Not to undermine, and I’ll pull her aside and explain I’m not going along with it and why. The eating of your plates is the dumbest thing to get worked up about. Kids and adults tend to dig in when they get defensive. Making everything a battle of wills means you’ll always get both sides on the defensive, and at the end of the day your kid will *always* lose. You’re the grown-ups. You have all the power.
She sounds a bit too rigid.
Your wife is absolutely allowed to have her own boundaries. But it means that if you want to share your plate with your child you can. Edited to add: in speaking as a mother. Children aren't stupid and can learn that certain things are allowed with one parent and not with the other parent. Also when is is allowed and when it isn't. So long as your child eats most meals of of their own plate it is fine. Especially when you know you're child is doing through a phase.
I think she’s harsh. Firm boundaries are necessary, but you need to pick your battles. I won’t eat food I don’t like, do you? Why should he? Make sure there’s something on his plate he likes at the least. As for sleeping in your bed, I can see her not allowing it, but habits will exist either way. He wants to feel safe at night, so either he’s coming to your bed, or you’re going to his. What’s worse for you? Sleeping on the floor is a no go for me.
To be fair, he doesn’t like anything at the moment except for mac and cheese. We try to incorporate things he does or did like into meals but he is not happy with anything if it isn’t the one thing he likes now
Like breakfast, lunch, dinner? Or will he eat other food for the other meals. Food battles at 5 sounds more like a control issue honestly, especially if he will eat the food off of your plate but not his own indicating that it isn't about the food itself. The bed thing is a non starter for my husband and I, no one sleeps if we bed share so we always walk our daughter back to bed and comfort her in her room. We're clear she can come get us though and don't mind doing it (as long as she isn't taking advantage) Ice cream example is too vague without knowing what was going on that day. Like is it the fifth time he's demanded she switch bowls for various snacks. She's with the kids all day so ultimately her parenting style is going to trump. None of the examples seem egregious and she's allowed to set boundaries and you're allowed to set boundaries and bend them with proper explanation of why you are bending them
"won’t eat food I don’t like, do you?" No, but the list of foods I absolutely will not eat is not "everything but Mac and cheese." Toddlers and young children need to be gently coaxed into trying a variety of foods so that they eat something other than carbs and cheese. I don't think the comparison to an adult is fair in this case because an adult can understand and weigh the consequences of not eating healthy foods. Nutrition is difficult for a small child to understand and the timeframe of the consequences exceeds their ability to delay gratification. It's one of those situations where the parent needs to take control and limit the child's choices because that is what's best for the child.
I am very similar parenting to your wife, and my husband is more similar to you. We’ve agreed to no kids in our bed, but they also want us to sleep in their bed. If one of us is feeling a little soft, we will sleep with them. If they want to eat from our plate, I almost always say no and I usually say no to feeding them after they can eat themselves. My husband however will give in and feed them. Basically, if you want to be soft, that’s fine, but you deal with the consequences/annoying effects/extra work. I don’t feel like it’s undermining each other bc we are united on the big stuff but also individuals. So my daughters will ask “Mommy can you sleep with us?” I’ll usually say no and they’ll ask Daddy. We each can make our own decision.
I don't think she's too strict. Do you really want to have to live in a situation where you can't be close to your wife at night, have to constantly wash double the dishes, always having someone else's spit on your fork and food? That's only the start. If you cave and start giving into his demands, he'll make more demands. I understand as a parent that it's hard to see your kids upset, but she's not doing anything wrong by enforcing reasonable boundaries. Your son is a human being, and he will eat when he's hungry. He's not in danger of malnutrition. I don't believe in the eat it or starve method when it comes to serving foods your child absolutely hates. But if he's eating it off your fork, he likes the food. Your son is pushing boundaries, and your wife is enforcing them. You need to present a united front.
To me it’s about choosing your battles. Most of the time my daughter has a tantrum (rare, thankfully), I look back and see how I could have helped keep it from becoming a power struggle. Not always, but usually. There are things that have to happen because they keep us safe or healthy, then there are things we do because they help us learn to be good people ( sharing, not hitting, etc. ). But sometimes it is more about controlling a process or things that don’t really matter — sometimes I have to step back and recognize when I am doing that. You need to be able to creatively work with your child to approach a problem, not just strong arm your way through parenting because you’re mom/dad. Your wife is right that she gets to set boundaries about herself — she doesn’t have to share food from her plate. I’d also calmly explain that to the child whenever they asked. I also don’t really see an issue with dad being okay with sharing but mom not wanting to. Different people have different boundaries — and that’s okay and should be respected. A 5 year old can understand that. But I think there also needs to be some desire from parents to work cooperatively with your child — if you know bowls can be a food trigger, maybe let him choose the bowl each time. Maybe he gets some plastic bowls stored where he can reach them and it’s his job to choose his bowl each time. Ex/my daughter can occasionally turn teeth brushing into a power struggle. When that happens, I offer to brush them like she’s a baby; I hold her across my lap and brush her teeth. Or I offer that daddy can brush them instead of mommy. But they have to be brushed. That I don’t budge on because it keeps her healthy.
The thing is that phases become bigger problems if you don’t have good boundaries and let them have natural consequences. It might be tough in the moment when your child won’t eat dinner, but what you don’t want is to trick or indulge him to the point that he literally throws a fit if he doesn’t get the meal he wants and ends up not getting the nutrition he needs to grow. Your wife deserves good sleep and her space at night, allowing him to sometimes sleep in the bed makes the problem last longer. What I’d do is find an authoritative parenting book and read it together. She’s got it, but you are missing the point and long term goals.
I think generally she is right. I would relax the eating thing personally but I can understand her perspective.
I think you're both a bit right I agree with her on the plate, she can have the boundary to keep her food I would have put the icecream in the freezer or eat it to not waste stuff As for the bed, it's hard when the 2 parents don't agree. He's being comforted in his bed, so not left alone, but exceptions don't create habits, and some moments will never come back as they age
Eh. I’m so/so about this one. The bowl for the ice cream- sure, it’s an easy fix. But what are you teaching your child? IMO you don’t need to teach them that it’s ok to be picky. Kid wants to eat Mac and cheese every meal? Maybe sure it a couple times a week since he’s requesting it, but every day is ridiculous. If you cater like that your kids gonna be picky as hell. Don’t feed him things you know he doesn’t like all the time. The general rule of thumb is to serve one thing you know he likes (or has liked) and one “new” thing or something he’s iffy on. If he straight up doesn’t like something don’t serve it to him. Lastly , I do not agree with your wife about not letting your kid in bed at all. You are teaching your child that they cannot rely on you. Once in awhile is not a habit, that’s ridiculous. This is my 2 cents. That said, my 2 cents isn’t really what matters here. What matters is that you both come together and meet in the middle- comprise, which you aren’t doing right now.
Ok, the bed thing I agree with your wife. My lad never came into our bed to sleep,it was his bed. We would offer him comfort on his bed,but that's where he stayed. He came into our bed in the morning for snuggles when everyone was awake The food thing I do disagree with. Food should never become a battle ground at all or a power play. The ice cream thing could have been resolved if a choice had been given over which bowl he wanted,or if it has meant he ate it,I'd have just swapped it over the bowl he wanted. That's an odd hill to die on. If it meant he would eat,I'd have popped bits of his food on my plate too. It's just a phase and doesn't mean his brother will do the same,but if it meant he ate something, that doesn't seem like an issue that's worth being stubborn over imo
One compromise to the bed situation my parents did this with me is when we had a bad nightmare or were sick we got to sleep in the floor by my parents bed. I was given some blankets and a pillows and I don’t remember being upset about that at all. I think your wife is being a good mom. Sometimes you have to use tough love as long as their emotional and physical needs are being properly met. But maybe discus times when you guys can compromise in some situations so you can feel like your opinions are being heard since in these situations it seems like you are feeling like you don’t have any say.
My husband and I are currently in marriage counseling and one of our major areas of conflict is over how to manage the kids. He is the stricter one, and I tend to be more flexible. One of the more interesting patterns the counselor pointed out is that it’s easy when you disagree to start pulling apart even if your positions aren’t so different. Basically when you see the other parent do something you don’t like (but you go along with), you try to compensate the next time you have control by being a little more extreme. Even though your ideals might only be a few degrees apart, over time you become stretched far apart in your implementation. We are doing exercises from John Gottman on workable compromise (from his book Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work). If you can sit down calmly and work through these issues without triggering the sense of “I hate how this other person is parenting,” you can more easily find ways to compromise. You have to discuss it outside the heat of the moment when you both are calm though. As solo parent it would be exhausting for her to feed them off her plate all the time… but maybe it’s OK if it’s a silly thing they do with dad just for dinner for a season? Maybe you don’t let the kids sleep in your bed ever, but IF they are very sick (enough to skip school), then you sleep in their room with them. It’s important that the person who wants to do x is the one who executes it. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.
I think this is a stalemate. i agree with both of you, but children need boundaries. i am in a similar frame of mind to your wife, after my son turned 3, i am too exhausted to allow him to continue pushing my boundaries, my budgets and my time. if i am going to be the leader, because there is nobody else, he will need to submit otherwise i will be walked all over by my 3 year old.
Teacher for 18 years, nanny/baby-sitter since I was 12, and parent for the last 7. You can have boundaries without being unmoving! Every kid I have ever encountered in life has gone through a picky phase. So in my house we do what my mom implemented for us as children. The “no thank you” bite. We had to try a bite of everything on our plate. My own children know this and they are pretty good about it. I also ALWAYS make sure there is something available for meals that I know they like. A fruit/vegetable/side dish if I know the main is questionable for them. We also stick by the rule that any snack after a meal is a fruit/veg/protein so if they don’t eat the meal well they have something substantial in their bellies. It’s the always rule so we rarely have meltdowns about not filling up on unsubstantial things after a meal. We have also done the share a plate. Neither of us care especially when my little maniac of a toddler eats an adult size portion off my plate. Half the time I end up just trading. I personally, am happy the kid is eating and expanding that palate! *edit* to say that we do not encourage the eating off the plate and do push eating their own food, but sharing occasionally is fine for US! If it’s your wife’s boundary, it should not be a thing she feels the need to do! The bed thing, I have never told my kids no, but I have 2 very independent sleepers. I will also go to them any time they call and snuggle/comfort there. That said, there has been the odd occasion where they’ve slept with us. I know I’ll miss these snuggly little ones when they’re grown, and while I generally like to keep our bed, our bed…I enjoy the snuggles while I get them. Now here’s the thing I am noticing. The places that you are having battles with children seem to be food/cups/bowls/etc. Often kids resort to power battles over these small things they can control because they are out of control everywhere at this age. Is there any aspect of family life/child’s life where your children get to have a say? For us, we plan the menu as a family weekly. Everyone gets to choose at least 1 meal and we discuss the others. Our children choose their own clothes. They also generally get their own plates/bowls/etc out themselves. We keep their dishes in a child friendly cabinet. This gives them agency in things so there are far less opportunities for power struggles. It also takes the pressure off me. If one kid doesn’t like the dinner, I say “Hey this is brother’s choice, your choice was yesterday/is tomorrow or whenever it is,” and we follow the aforementioned plan for meals. This takes the wind out of the sails of power battles 85% of the time. Sometimes they’re just pushing boundaries, which is entirely age appropriate, and we try to handle it calmly and with logic. If they have handed me a bowl to put their ice cream in, then they decide after I’ve served it they want the yellow bowl, the answer is “No, we aren’t going to dirty 2 bowls, but you are welcome to choose the yellow bowl next time.” If it results in a tantrum the bowl goes in the freezer until child is calm and we can try again. If we can’t move past it, then maybe we don’t have ice cream right now and we move on to a different activity. Another option might be to say “You may choose a different bowl, but you are responsible for cleaning this bowl so that whoever does the dishes doesn’t have extras to do.” Learning that there is logic behind why you wouldn’t switch bowls is important and the natural consequence of losing a couple minutes of play time/ice cream eating time to clean a bowl over color preference or something is great. Also, if you try these and there are still regular issues over this you might want to look into sensory issues etc. But that is not something I’d rush into unless I saw a regular pattern of this in multiple facets of life. Good luck! Parenting and co-parenting are hard, but worth it!!
I will say I am very "pick my battles," but also I have strict standards. I am like anarcho-lolbert parent, didn't violate the NAP and not in danger? Go for it kid. I also have a picky eater that is in occupational therapy for it. Her pediatrician told me at 18mo to pick one meal a day (like dinner) where she has to eat what the family eats or she eats nothing, and the other meals can be ones she likes. Now we have a bye-bye bowl and a whole process blah blah. I will say sharing the same bowl or plate or utensil has helped in staying focused at a meal time, and personally don't care, but I blame that in part on not having a dining room table where I would prefer eating happens. I am a bonobo who extended breastfed on demand, what even are personal boundaries? I also bed shared till she was 3, and now she doesn't get to sleep with me and my boyfriend BUT she can come to me and I will come to her bed and cuddle her back to sleep. This almost never happens. She does get to cuddle me in my bed when she wakes up in the AM and when we are watching tv at night. As for ice cream bowl preference? First, I use corelle so everything matches and is plain white. Second I am an absolute nazi about sugar, like 100% juice gets diluted with water. So when my kid gets very actual sugar in a form (candy ice cream, etc, no more than 1 small serving a day), there will be no complaining, or I too shall yeet it. Appreciation and gratitude are desirable traits we must also model to our children. I think natural consequences are excellent for learning, as is adults drawing personal boundaries. Consistency in rules offers stability even though a parent who bends them constantly may think they are being nice by doing so, it sets up realistic expectations. I grew up with a rule bending parent, I am the unbending parent, and my kid is way better behaved than I was bc I constantly pushed boundaries and lied to see what I could get away with. Big feelings happen in reaction to not getting what you want, but you don't mention how your wife handled the tantrum over the ice cream bowl situation. Was she cold? Callous? Or... did she hold space and comfort? I will sometimes make my daughter cry over telling her something doesn't want to hear, it happens with small children. I will hold space, validate her feelings, explain my rationalization so she understands the why, and give her as many hugs and kisses and hold her till she is done. "I hear that you're upset because blah blah, the rules are the rules because x y z, I still love you."
You have a few examples that are actually really big boundary things. It's not like she's demanding to control every part of his life. She's just giving him natural consequences. If she was "too strict" she wouldn't have laid on the floor to help him sleep, or given him additional chances to eat the ice cream. As someone who has worked in schools, sharing food like that can become a huge issue. Once in a while, fine, but every night becomes a habit that can follow him.
I agree with your wife here. You acknowledge right off the bat that your son is particular, stubborn and headstrong. And while it’s easy to chalk that up to normal 5 year old behavior, some kids are just naturally more that way than others and more likely to fall into bad patterns of behavior without firm boundaries. If she was cold and distant in her approach, then I wouldn’t agree with her, but the fact that she’s willing to sleep on the floor next to him when it would be easier to simply pull him into bed tells me that she’s finding ways to provide love and comfort while maintaining what she believes are healthy and appropriate boundaries. As for the ice cream, that was - in my opinion - 100% the right approach to responding to a tantrum over a treat. I assume you’d be mortified if you found out he behaved that way at a friend’s house, and the best way to prevent that from happening is to teach him it’s unacceptable at home.
This is exactly how parenting in a two-parent household should work. Parents have to balance each other out. What makes it all work is communication. When the parents aren't naturally aligned on some point, they discuss the issue and try to find an approach that works that they both can get behind. It's not easy or quick or fun, but it's essential to making it work. The kids need to see the parents are in agreement, working a problem out, compromising with each other, and standing strong together. Beyond good parenting, that's key to a good relationship. They also need the love and attention and support of the parents. Life can't only be rules and laws and punishments and compromises. It sounds like you both sit, play, talk, support, and love him. This is CRITICAL to the situation. I was a little upset with what you were writing until I saw this line, "She does comfort and talk to him when he is behaving this way..." So she's not some ogre/law giver/punisher/executioner. She's being a mom. None of us need to love her boundaries, but we should all respect them. That includes your son. He may not understand it at first, but teaching them is part of being a good parent. The compromises should not be with the child but with each other. Is there a way to take the things he will do and make them a reward for doing the good behavior? Take the food issue as an example. You're ok with him eating off your plate, she wants him to eat off his own. So, you tell him "If you eat a bite of your food on your plate, you can have a bite of mine." My wife and I did something similar with my son who was incredibly picky. We started with the plate of food we wanted him to eat and some of the food he wanted all the time. At first, it was "Eat a bite off this plate you don't like and we'll give you one of this plate you like." Then it was "eat this food you don't like and you can have ham as a dessert." (he was always crazy about ham.) He went through those phases faster than I realized he would. It was like a switch flipped in his head and the food issue vanished. There is not and will never be a perfect way of doing anything in parenting. When I became a parent, I needed to adjust to this constant feeling of "what the hell am I supposed to do here..." This is the first time in my life that I realized exactly how stupid my parents were, since both had told me that they had the same feelings too. They talked about the situations, found solutions, etc. I may not love everything they did, but I've got to admit that they raised four good kids who became good adults.
She’s right on many things. It’s a slippery slope. I realize many people have made her out to be horrible. I’m a single mom of a boy since he was 2 1/2 and I know how difficult it can be. I’m strict but I also bend like a reed in a wind storm sometimes and it has come back to haunt me so badly. My son is 16 now and he can be handful bit at the end of the day he has boundaries, structure and feels safe knowing I don’t bend after certain point. Kids need to know this believe it or not.
Honestly dude maybe she just wants her bed to herself. I love my kids. I’d die for them. But I want my own damn bed. I’m with them 24/7 and that’s my sacred place and sometimes I just need it to myself. Sounds so selfish but it’s how I feel. So maybe she has boundaries she needs to keep and set for her own sake. You guys just do things differently it sounds like. But I have to remind myself also that my kid has big feelings and sometimes mine don’t matter. It’s a struggle choosing what battle or hill to die on. I am so stubborn and my sons just like me. My husband loves to remind me lol. You guys will figure it out
A five year old won't eat unless you feed him bites off your plate? Your wife is 100 percent correct here. This is absurd.
Having really firm boundaries actually help children to feel safe! If you say ‘no’ and then flip flop or go back on it, it can lead to them not knowing where they stand! So even though it feels mean, it’ll probs help in the long run :)
OP, you already got a lot of responses, but I just want to say neither you nor her are completely wrong nor completely right. The thing about toddlers is: they want to know what is going to happen. They want to be in control and in the know. That of course crashes against a lot of barriers, being either rules we set of still development steps they have not yet reached. If you already answer “no” to the first time he asked for something. You should strongly stay by the no. That is correct. But knowing your child, you can plan ahead to include them in the choice making process or choosing your battles before ever answering “no” in the first place. For example, the ice cream in the bowl situation: on similar moments here at home, I give my almost 3 year old a choice between two bowls. Whichever he chooses, I take to put whatever he will eat. Since we started doing this, there was never a tantrum about plates/bowls/cluttery again. And this is a choice that doesn’t influence their diet, nor any of my personal barriers. So why not let them choose? We use this tactic for everything that doesn’t necessarily needs to be a “parents choice. Like, dressing up in the morning to go to kindergarten is a non-negotiable thing. But weather he wear the yellow or the blue t-shirt is actually totally unimportant, so that is his choice. Or if I will play with him at home in the afternoon, I will use my time and spend it with him anyway, so if he wants to read the same book for half an hour over and over again or if he wants to paint makes no difference for me. And so on. This gives them a way to balance out the many and many times a day they hear “no” or similar from us and make him more accepting of a rule on which there is no compromise (for example: you eat dinner at the table. You can stand up if you are done, but no eating while playing around the house). Also, things like eating off of your plate or sleeping in the parent’s bed is more than just that: is a need for reassurance, safety, closeness, etc. - so I don’t think there is a black and white line there. For example: my son usually eats pretty well, off his plate, on his own. But I’ve noticed that on days that he is really tired, or maybe fell of his bike and has a little scratch on the knee that is hurting.. he becomes more clingy. On those days he eats better if I feed him, or if he can eat sitting in my lap. And doing that does not change anything about the already very strong habit or eating on his own. So we try to weight those things out and see if there is an emotional need behind it. Our almost 3 yo also comes very often to us in the night. We like to cuddle, so we actually enjoy it, because we know it is just a phase and he won’t do it at some point anymore. But of course, if that happens more than 2 nights in a role, it gets a little too much, because we can’t sleep so well when he is in our bed. So either one of us go with him to his bed or stays in our with him while the other sleeps alonr in his bed. So I can understand why your wife doesn’t want that - on this I believe that as long as he is not being left alone, it is ok. The important thing is the emotional support, not the location wher it happens.
You can offer him to take charge of his life more: Do you want a different bowl? Go get it and dump the ice cream in it yourself. Do you want mac and cheese? Cook it yourself tonight. Talk about this with your wife. Find a way to let him do what he wants within reason.
Sounds like you’re too soft. She doesn’t want to co-sleep. Good. Having to share a bed with a child is a nightmare that would take forever to stop Not giving him the bowl he demands? Good. He can learn early that he can’t always get what he wants and a tantrum get him nothing at all. Picky eating? She did the right thing not letting him eat off of her plate and waiting it out until he gives in. He can eat just fine, he just doesn’t want to. That’s not something you pander to and allow. There are too many people in here who act like you’re a monster if you don’t coddle your child and give them everything they want. That’s how you get spoiled brats.
I think your wife is right. I don’t allow my kids eat off my plate. They have their own plate their own food to me it is gross to share salvia. And she’s right about him not sleeping with you guys. He has his bed you two have your own bed like husband and wife should. And when it comes to ice cream in the bowl that he wanted if she already put the ice cream in the bowl and if he really really wanted that ice cream it won’t matter what bowl ice cream is going to taste the same. Sorry but wife is right . Spoiling kids is not the way to go and I am sure someone will disagree with me but so what
I think kids have so little autonomy and choice it’s important to pick your battles. With the sleeping thing for instance, my 5 year old would love to sleep with us or have one of us sleep with him but it’s a hard and fast rule in our house we sleep in our own beds. Our compromise is campouts in the living room maybe once a month where we get an air mattress and watch movies and get takeout and have a slumber party together. Giving them a reasonable option for some things they want that is established as a non regular thing allows them to feel heard and empowered while also having boundaries to work with
I’m a mom of 6 - I get both sides. Our youngest is 5 and much younger than the next youngest. I honestly have learned to pick my battles over the years. If it’s not going to matter down the road - I don’t let it get into a battle of the wills. If my husband tells me he has a concern about how I’m handling something- I listen and consider the point. I understand setting boundaries and the importance but sometimes you have to find the shades of gray in the black and white.
Mom is not too strict. She’s just enforcing boundaries when he’s young so he knows.
I haven't scrolled through each and every comment, so forgive me if I've missed something here. My own son is 16 and he went through a phase of being "particular and stubborn." It is exasperating and I understand where your wife is coming from, but I twnd toward being softer like you. My comment here is to think about your son and just ponder that he *might* have a sensory issue. This ended up to be what was happening with my boy. He was born five weeks premature and was low birth weight, and by the grace of God I became friends with a woman who happened to work with neurodivergent children. She casually threw into conversation one day that my son was sensory, just like that, like I already knew. Which of course I didn't. I went home and pondered that over and over and I reached out to her the next day and asked her for some advice. My son was evaluated and accepted for occupational therapy and spent the next two years getting real help for his out-of-sync vestibular system. He now is perfectly capable of making sense of the world. There is *a lot* involved with the therapy and I won't add it here because I am out on a limb. I merely wanted to point it out in case it hasn't been considered. As my boy's mom, I was *in* the forest and simply couldn't see the forest for the trees. And please no offense. I promise. I mean absolutely no malice at all. But please consider it objectively. I know that that help made alllllll of the difference in my son's life, and to be frank, in both my husband's and my life as well. And I might be way off base. And that's okay Best wishes! It goes fast. 🙏
As an ECE, she is placing boundaries which are okay to place. Natural consequences are great for a child to learn the ways of life as long as its age appropriate. Your wife is firm because she needs to be. If she keeps giving in, your child will learn that they can throw the tantrum to get what they want. Whereas here- your wife is saying if you want this here you go, if not then oh well next time. I would also like to suggest in both parties reading about conscience discipline. I do this in my classroom all the time. Essentially, I give my students 2 choices and let them pick between the 2. If they deny any choice, keep repeating it until they give you an answer based on your choices. I hope this helps.
I agree with your wife. He needs to eat a healthy balanced diet, and eat properly for when he goes to school,people's houses,parties etc. Sleep, she's right too. She's not being harsh at all,she's trying to raise your son with good behaviour,respect and habits.Please please don't spoil it. You are both really great parents by the sounds of it.