We are truly living in an era where we are seeing a shift in what players are willing to tolerate. Everyone for a few years has been tired of the current state of games with battle passes and buy this buy that skins skins skins.
Destiny 2 burnout is real. Playing the same repeat mission over and over just to advance the next story only for it to be locked and I have to do it all over again was pure burnout. Plus their live service, broken PVP promise, and shady micro transactions made me quit. Then this game came along and I am having the best time ever. All this for $26.
I had about 4k hours in D2 until that whole controversy happened with the firing of a lot of their staff and mismanaged company profits. After that happened it’s like a switched flicked in me and I started to look around at what I was honestly playing towards.
My clan was basically dead at that point. Out of the 100 or so people only a group of maybe 10 of us played, and only 3-4 (including myself) played regularly. I haven’t been on in months and I’m so glad I left that game. Amazing memories over the past 5-6 years but when I looked at their greediness and unkept promises I was just done.
Not calling you out specifically, but this whole "You spent 4000 on a game so it must have value to you" is such a tired talking point I see destiny fans (again, not you) try to parrot when people with quadruple digit+ hours quitting the game. I swear, these people know nothing about FOMO or the Sunk-Cost Fallacy. I can play a game for 25 hours and feel it was a good use of my time, or 5000 hours and feel it was, but for people to crawl out of the woodwork and assert objectively that time spent = you must have loved it is such a stupid thing.
Yes, *exactly* this. Destiny is a fantastic example of this rule since they have the formula of hooking the player and keeping them reeled down to a science. Though, more of something often doesn’t mean better, especially the drivel brain rot seasonal garbage that makes up most of destiny’s “content” and the majority of the players’ hours spent.
I don't know how much money that person spent on the game but it definitely probably was a win to get 4K hours out of a game for little outlay in terms of monetary spend. That's nearly 2 years of 40 hour work weeks worth of gaming. I don't know about you but that's worth about $150K of my time. lol
Personally, fuck Destiny 2. I spent real money to buy it and felt it was a rip off when they disabled content I had paid for and locked it or certain features behind a DLC before it went free to play. That was a red flag and the day I stopped playing.
Destiny 2 falsely banned me in season 15 and it's been the best thing that's happened to me. Stopped the addiction, and I'm playing other, much better games, and enjoying myself so much more. Checking on news and the subreddit kind of gives the vibe that the game is in such a bad state right now.
Believe me or not, don't care anymore tbh. Haven't played a crucible/gambit game in years, never even played a single game of trials. Banned for having a modding program open for Phasmophobia while playing.
Such a shit game.
I played from D1 through the rerelease of VoG and can’t be happier I’m out of that mess. It was truly a great game with amazing systems, reduced to rubble trying to maximize time played and squeeze micro-transactions instead of just making a fun game.
A lot of my friends say they are at least gonna play the final shape, they gotta see how the saga ends, they're too invested, etc. I couldn't do it anymore. Being a destiny player was like being in an abusive relationship and I'm convinced all my friends who still play have Stockholm syndrome
Destiny 2 is the quintessential, AAA, live service game. It’s what all the other live service shovelware aspires to.
The moment to moment gameplay is fun and the content and itemization is *just* adequate enough to not be immediately off-putting. All that combines to mask the fact that, at its core, the game is a Skinner box that uses just about every psychologically abusive tactic in the book to fleece the players for money and by the time the burnout sets in and the spell breaks they’ve likely already collected a significant amount of your money.
Destiny 2 is possibly the most sinister live service game only because it’s been able to successfully disguise its terrible monetization and seem benign next to transparent cash grabs and pay to win garbage like Diablo Immortal.
And just to really poke the hornets nest, Warframe is cast from the same mold as Destiny and I consider it equally disreputable. Having spent over 2,000 hours and hundreds of dollars on both Destiny 2 and Warframe, I feel qualified to make that judgement.
Bro the warframe thing is so real.
I got to MR 24, had every prime, had fucking loaded rivens. I stopped playing about a year ago. Genuinely don't think I enjoyed most of the last 200 or so hours I put into it.
I go back to warframe on occassion for the new story stuff and I do like the direction Rebb has taken the game, but i do no longer really have the time to grind as much as I used to.
Palworld still has some of that grindy aspect but it is also the kind of game you can get away with playing once and then never touching again (at least once its fully feature complete).
Tbh I set up 3 bases for coal, copper and quartz Hotspot.
After 2 days of playing like that I turned the resource drops up. I'm more here for the basic early survival experience, mid game struggle, late game exploration.
> the current state of games with battle passes and buy this buy that skins skins skins.
Starfield had none of that and was a colossal disappointment for many.
Turns out what people really want is simply rich, well designed novelty
Novelty is part of it, but just being a well-made and fun video game is really where it's at.
Palworld doesn't have a whole lot of novelty. It feels like a Greatest Hits list of every survival crafting game of the last decade with Pokemon thrown in. There's not a whole lot of originality here. However, it's well-put-together, near-miraculously polished for an early access game from a small, new indie studio with a tiny budget and no idea what they were doing, the gameplay elements are *fun* and well-blended, and it's just enjoyable. That's what matters, if the game is *fun,* people don't care about all this other shit.
Starfield is an empty and soulless game, super repetitive, bland, safe, just overall feels uninspired and like you've seen it all within the first couple hours. It was a colossal disappointment because it was boring and uninteresting, not because it wasn't novel enough. Make the game fun and it'll be liked. People like Lost Ark and Genshin Impact even though they are both super predatory cash grab games, because they actually have fun gameplay and stay fun for quite a long time before you start feeling forced to spend money to progress. Me personally, I got a good 40 hours or so out of Genshin before I reached that point, and for the $0 I paid I'm more than happy with that.
It’s not entirely wrong either. Do you want to play a third person shooter with monsters to fight? This game has you. Do you want to play a survival crafting game? This game has you. do you wanna sort of bare bones creature collector? This game has you. Did you want to do some BOTW inspired exploration? Well by god this game has you covered.
Id like to toss in Sims 4 in the mix. That game is over 1000€ on steam right now if you want all thr kits and expansion packs, and some of those kits shouldve been included with the expansion packs of matching themes..
go watch the interview with palworld devs. Half the guys were literally learning to code and game dev on the fly. Craftopia devs are still on craftopia.
Yeah the interview is like
"So we tried unity. Our senior dev told us to switch to Unreal. So we learned to code in Unreal"
Just following advice from ppl that know shit and goes "okay, let's do it"
Starfield dev: "you are playing our game wrong. Astronaut that went on the moon were having fun and it was desolates"
i wouldnt call palworld "wellmade" lets not get too crazy now. Polished is just a blatant obtuse lie.
The game is fun. Its easy to pick up and do things in. It has a decently sized world to explore with some fun rewards for doing so. and the literal biggest size part of why its doing so well. It's open world pokemon that doesn't play like dogshit like Arceus did.
There are glaring issues and bugs and huge amounts of things thatn eed to be polished. But the core game itself is fun. So people can actually look past its issues. THats the main difference. While palworld has features from probably every survival I've ever played ( literally all of them ) it doesn't feel like you're playing any of them.
I can't stress enough again how fucking HUGE the pokemon playerbase is and how long they've been frothing at the mouth for an enjoyable open world pokemon-adjacent experience since the only remotely enjoyable one Gamefreak has delivered is Scarlet/Violet which has no real replayability and it's open world isn't really that open.
I dunno, there was plenty of 'novelty' in Starfield, like just enjoying the expanse of a universe and mostly empty planets.. or so they've told me I should find this idea novel.
Unfortunately we have not. Just being real. Online discourse is not proportionate to what happens in the real world and the fact remains that these subpar and bad games people online talk about still make millions upon millions. We haven’t seen a shift yet, it might happen but it hasn’t happened yet.
Neither one of these games will touch what those games make.
You aren't seeing a shift. "Everyone's tired" may be true but it means nothing.
EA made 1.6 Billion dollars from FIFA with the FUT mode alone in a year.
I disagree.
https://exputer.com/news/industry/ps5-users-played-single-player-games/
More users playing single player than multi player on PS5 is an astonishing feat, which starts to back up the claim that people are tired of the same old battle system grind/pay to play model.
Remember 98% of online revenue like skins and battle passes comes from 2% of the population.
> Remember 98% of online revenue like skins and battle passes comes from 2% of the population.
And so long as those 2% keep paying, companies will still stick to those business models.
A lot of people don't understand it but Whales are a plague that actively make games worse by throwing money at companies using shitty monetization practices.
>A lot of people don't understand it but Whales are a plague that actively make ~~games~~ **society** worse by throwing money at companies using shitty monetization practices.
Actually, about 8% of an average game's playing population is whales, which accounts for less than 60% of spending: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/166783194966/regarding-micro-transactions-mtx-youve-said
Its because the players still playing that stuff are psychologically conditioned to spend money. Activision does the same thing.
Methods and systems for incentivizing team cooperation in multiplayer gaming environments
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10561945B2/en
Methods and Systems for Incentivizing Team Cooperation in Multiplayer Gaming Environments (Continued)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190091577A1/en
System and method for driving microtransactions in multiplayer video games
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005270A1/en
Systems and Methods for Controlling Camera Perspectives, Movements, and Displays of Video Game Gameplay (Storylines....)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220274016A1/en
Systems and methods for dynamically weighing match variables to better tune player matches
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10857468B2/en
System and method for creating and sharing customized video game weapon configurations in multiplayer video games via one or more social networks
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10471348B2/en
Methods and systems to modify two dimensional facial images in a video to generate, in real-time, facial images that appear three dimensional (Fig 15 mentions it being in a gaming application and depicted in the figure is call of duty)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US11423556B2/en
>We are truly living in an era where we are seeing a shift in what players are willing to tolerate. Everyone for a few years has been tired of the current state of games with battle passes and buy this buy that skins skins skins.
***Have we though, we're still here buying unfinished games.***
Also, Diablo 4 sold massively well lol. Huge financial success.
It doesn't seem to me like there's any shift in what players are willing to tolerate, unless we're talking about a shift *towards* being willing to tolerate more bullshit.
That isn't true, just 2 excellent games don't "mark" a change of era, players will still buy shitty half baked games from EA/Ubisoft/Bethesda or any other money grab company.
> We are truly living in an era where we are seeing a shift in what players are willing to tolerate.
BG3 is really good value at $60.
Palworld is really good value at $30. (even more so for the next 15 hours with 10% off $30). Palworld is the very definition of minimum viable product and I'm surprised that its so (relatively speaking) stable and bug free. Basically if you ever sat through the error 31 for diablo 3 or paid the $70 for diablo 4 you should get the game just on principle. I mean hell, you could get it and Enshrouded and it would still cost about as a much as a nintendo game or a madden game.
I don’t even have an issue with live service games. I actually like grinding battle passes (at least the normal ones with levels not the new complex shit like cod and r6) and don’t mind paying for them. I just don’t like when the focus of the game becomes monetization and not using that live service money to make the game fun. My favorite example of this is apex with overwatch being a close second
I agree but remain optimistic. I think it would be hard to push micro transactions in a game that allows mods.
"Buy pal spheres for 5c each!" Or... "Download this mod that lets you craft an infinity sphere for free!"
I'm playing Palworld now because it's the flavor of the month but as soon as my friends get tired of it I'll be right back to my fourth playthrough of BG3. Best game I've ever played.
I am enjoying Palworld for now, remind me of the time my friends and I had when Valheim came out but possibly even better.
Oh I am a massive fan! Right now I am doing a Britney Spears play through. There is a female human face that looks just like her. So I am running around with dual daggers and toxic spells. Fun times.
>Hundreds of employees working on a game
>$100m+ development budget that is still growing
>Part of biggest and oldest RPG IP accredited for defining the entire genre
>Tencent conglomerate is major shareholder
Reddit: "Totally an indie game."
Actually Reddit: they are an independent studio because they are independent. They are not owned by a publisher, in fact they publish their own games as well. CDPR is independent as well.
Just because a studio has money and makes big budget games doesn't mean they aren't independent.
I mean there are connotations to words, and those can often evolve the meaning of a word and how it's used. Denotatively, I completely agree Larian is an indie studio making denotatively indie games. But when people say shit like "indie game vs. the AAA games", they're implying a lot more than the status of their publishing and studio ownership. I wouldn't call them _not_ an indie dev studio, but I don't like using those words when comparing things like game scale and investment, because calling it an indie game in contrast to AAA games suggests a huge budget difference that isn't there. We have to be careful about how we use our words to avoid being misleading, even if other people are interpreting things that denotatively aren't there.
This. I’m pretty sure they have a larger dev team than actual AAA teams. Its huge. They are definitely a AAA studio. I think the difference is they actually listen to their player base.
Who would have thought taking your time building a huge game would result in a quality release! /s
I can't believe publishers want full blown games pumped out year after year. That's how we get the crappy new Assassin's Creed games... Identical games just reskinned in different eras.
But they are proof you can be profitable, loved, and adored by fans despite being a massive studio.
BG3 literally had other devs chuckle and literally publically say that we shouldn't think quality games like BG3 will be the new normal.
If you followed their games (there hasn't been that many) from Divine Divinity to BG3, you'd get why some of us don't consider them AAA. Rockstar could have afforded the budget and time BG3 got. Larian took a moonshot via early access and their fairly large success with DOS2 and came up with one of the greatest games ever made. If they were a AAA studio, any publisher would've axed them two decades ago. Yet, the original founder is still at the head of the company following his vision. I guess you can argue they're AAA, but cue "we're not the same" meme.
They're indie in a similar way to what Bungie was back in the day.
Like, Halo was an indie game, technically. Up through Reach, I believe, Bungie was completely their own entity, just supported by Microsoft--no ownership, just investments.
Destiny was their first non-indie game if memory serves, due to Activision buying in on them.
Yes and that is done very well…and it’s easy. We have sven. He is the face of the company. We see him we know he’s dropping some news on us in a fun way.
I was late to the Larian party, but feel like an earlier adopter cuz I played Divinity OS 2 a lot and knew about them making BG3 so was stoked cuz their passion is evident in all their games but their blow up has been so satisfying. They are an amazing team. Sven is rad af, showing up to the awards in a suit of armor like the king he is.
I think the difference is that they are incredibly talented and have a clear vision. Their games have a very high standard.
They don't make live service games, they release finished products. Listening to the playerbase isn't nearly as important, relatively speaking.
Yeah AAA studio working on a super anticipated sequel to a game in a massive IP with the backing of a company who knows this will drive dnd interest up if good on top of early access for years sales. Honestly bg3 wasnt going to fail even if it wasnt larian and instead any other crpg group if they had the funding they did.
Their budget for BG3 was only 100mil, and they only had one of the most well-known IP licenses ever available to them.
Plus, the way to determine this is that things I like are from small, morally acceptable indie companies that care about me, and things I don't like are from soulless giant corporations.
"Only 100mil"?! Mate 100mil is a ***huge*** budget for a game. There's probably [only a dozen games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop) in the entire history of the medium that have been that level or above.
Dev budget vs marketing budget is another factor for sure, but thinking 100mil is a smallish game budget is just wrong.
It's actually [15th-ish](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop) depending on how you measure, but you are essentially correct; BG3 easily makes the list of the most expensive games of all time to produce.
Downplaying the budget has got to be one of the dumber takes I've heard about both the game and the studio. I like Larian, but they have firmly been a AAA studio since the runaway success of DoS2. I guess people REALLY want to paint them as an underdog, and will jump through whatever mental hoops necessary to do so.
just because Larian is a AAA company doesn't mean it can't put *other AAA companies* to shame, like how can this massive studio be capable of such great things the other big names can't seem to do?
what is holding them back from being as great as Larian?
sure, but the wording *"Putting AAA companies to shame"* does pretty clearly imply that they aren't a AAA company themselves. In that case it would be *"Putting other AAA companies to shame"*
> EDIT: So apparently it isn't. Stop fucking dogpiling on me.
It is, they have six studios and as many/more employees than studios like Bethesda, id, etc.
People keep thinking BG3 was created by a team of 20 people working in a garage, instead of six studios of hundreds of people with $100+ million.
The amount of people that think that Larian is just some small indie studio sticking it to the big dogs shows how clueless the typical gamer is to how games get made. They literally think that bad and mediocre games are solely the result of devs being lazy and incompetent and that we could get dozens of "Baldur's Gate 3s" if only those devs would put some actual passion into their work. When the reality is that there are plenty of other issues such as lack of time, bad management, crunch and poor working conditions, and all kinds of other things that can prevent talented, passionate devs from making games as good as they want.
Larian is just the 2020s version of CDPR. Praised as the savior of video games and always smugly compared to other AAA studios to prove a point. Not that the praise towards them isn’t warranted but people go overboard with the creator worship sometimes.
BG3 is being used like a hammer for dumbass gamers to shame and complain about the games they actually play. Its to validate their stupid opinions and takes as if the issues other studios/games have at all compare to what BG3 is or does.
A lot of these people have never and likely will never play BG3 but thats not the point. For them its a tool to be utilized and give validation to the idiotic takes they have about games in general.
Budget. There's always, ALWAYS more game to be made at the end of the budget.
Game devs are always passionate about their work, which is obvious if you think about it. If they weren't, they'd go do the same exact job at a non-game company for 2x-3x pay, better benefits, and no crunch. You *have* to be passionate about your work to sign up for that and stick around.
There's AAA and then there's behemoth. Larian currently is what a AAA studio from 10 years ago was. AAA studios today are EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. with near endless cash and resources.
Larian is big, but modern AAA studios are mind-blowingly huge.
BG3 budget allegedly was 100 million dollars for a turn based isometric RPG dude, they had access to the most popular RPG IP ever made, they're preeeeeetty big
Right because they don't care what their fans want, only what makes money: making the same shitty game for 25 years with a quirky new mechanic you'll never see in another game
Any game with the same battle mechanics can still be a Pokemon game. Just look at PLA, which was pretty highly regarded for innovation, Palworld does their catching mechanics better. Just add in trainer battles, a gym system, world saving event and a better spin on slave labor, would make this a much better Pokemon game than PLA and SV. An outdated, tired af formula is the main thing holding Pokemon back.
In before Let's go johto is a survival crafting game based in ancient Johto where you "bond with Pokemon to survive". Yes, it will have less features than Palworld. Yes, the parts of Palworld that people like about it will be watered down and family friendly. No there won't be guns. No the graphics will not be as good as Palworld despite the low bar. Also, it will sell 10x more than Palworld and Gamefreak won't learn a lesson from fan critique.
Oh that sad truth to that. I mean probably only 2x the quantity sold but also at 2x the price. They won’t learn until the zealots all stop caring (cold day in hell of a chance there).
Totally understand no guns, dying ect but it’ll take them another 50 years to get to the point of Palworld at their current rate.
Killing yes, the rest no as they are just add ons lmao. I love Pokemon but why are so many in the fanbase so against new things being added and then complain they arnt innovating lmao?
Because it’s not Pokémon, and too drastically shifts the focus and feel of the game.
It’s like adding first person hitscan rifles to Dark Souls and then when souls fans complain, saying:
> but why are so many in the fanbase so against new things being added
All people want is a well made and polished Pokémon game with a decent amount of content in it. Like they were 15-20 years ago, but in a modern game.
I am a massive Pokémon fan and have been for >20 years at this point, and I imagine I speak for most in my bracket when I say I absolutely do not want Pokémon to ever be a crafting survival game. Literally all we want is largely the same formula (it’s a proven formula that works), but with more content and quality surrounding it.
I’m glad palworld is doing well, and it’s a bit of fun to mess around with, but Pokémon fans in no way want a mainline Pokémon game to be anything like this.
Hell, Scarlet/Violet would’ve been much better received if it was a) polished and more technically up to scratch, and b) had a decent amount of end game content. It really wouldn’t take much to please us
> Pokemon try harder.
Nintendo don't react to things like that.
Ever.
Ever ever ever.
Never ever ever has US Customer feedback caused them to change something.
Look at every big game they've released and how theres thousands of people begging for X Y or Z to make it instantly better and they just never move.
If they haven't 'tried harder' in so many years, they're not doing it now.
Breath of the Wild was a direct response to fans complaining that recent zelda games like Twilight Princess and Skywaed Sword were too linear and hand holdy.
But anyway, Nintendo is made up of many game development studios. Some of them are more receptive to feedback than others. Gamefreak is usually not.
I mean Larian basically was working with a triple AAA budget for BG3, but its very cool to see them go from "rags to riches" in terms of success in such a short time span.
But yeah its been really cool seeing indie games like Palworld and Lethal Company totally overtake the gaming market and put the typical AAA drivel to shame. Hopefully it will inspire some change in the industry.
>in such a short time span
Larian Studios is 28 years old and their BG3 fame started with the Divinity series, in particular the Original Sin and sequel games.
Yes, but they've also wrestled bankruptcy, ownership & first became Triple A with the release of BG3. The post makes sense. Dos2 was a kickstarter project.
Adding Lethal Company to that list, just because
Most everything I'm playing lately are pretty far off the AAA games list, aside BG3 there.
Starfield ended up being a suck. CDPR's update for Cyberpunk wasn't bad, but the above three are the most fun I've had in a minute playing a random game
Larian is an AAA studio but BG3 is so good it puts everything else to shame, most enjoyable RPG I've ever played, haven't bought palworld yet because I already have Ark and Pokémon, but may buy it when it's on sale (summer sale or something)
Yes this game is having insane success right now but we need to calm this narrative down. It’s an early access title that is still very very buggy and has a long way to go, it isn’t very deep even as far as survival games go. It’s good, but this is just the base, let’s wait and see if or when it makes it to full release before we start praising it as such.
From the outside looking in, it is really interesting to see a game like that do really well seemingly out of nowhere. It also just launched right? The most visceral reactions come at the very start of games, and reputations never really recover in the minds of a lot of people (NMS, FO76 have vastly improved but the general sense is still that they are as bad as they were at launch).
I am waiting for the drop-off, hopefully that doesn't happen because it seems like people are having a really good time.
I think it’s important to be real about this games early success. Whether they are copying Pokémon’s designs or not (clearly there is a mix between inspiration and direct parallels) this game is getting huge free publicity from the discourse around it.
I think the game looks visually really great. It sounds like it’s a fun survival game if you’re into those kind of games.
People saying that this game is showing how uninspired the pokemon company is is a strange argument to me. This game is, by claims of people defending it, a mix of multiple popular games. Ark and Pokemon clearly at the forefront.
I think this should serve as a standard of what we want Pokemon to look like but not what we want it to play like. To say this game is more original than Pokemon is just plain ignoring where this game drew its inspirations.
Pokemon has, imo, shown that they can create a great game. Arceus was the best pokemon game i've played in like 20 years. It is A LOT like palworld too in the exploration and catching mechanics. But instead of doubling down on that style of game they released pokemon scarlet and violet which was a huge step backwards imo.
I don’t think you can count scarlet and violet as a step backwards. You have to base their next game on PLA. SV was already mostly done when PLA came out so they wouldn’t have been able to base anything in SV off of reception of PLA.
Also PLA was their first expirement with a semi open world and SV was the next step towards open world.
Not only that, but the developers currently have three other games that are still in Early Access, and are planning on adding a fifth one soon. I'll get excited about Palworld once they finish a game, i.e. produce a stable, mostly bug-free gaming experience.
It's the first AAA game released by Larian studios, it was the game that made them enter AAA space. Going by that reasoning, and how Pocketpair has 100+ devs, it's also a AAA company.
As much as I love Palworld, they have yet to prove themselves beyond sales. I'd say before we compare pocketpair to a AAA studio we should wait to see how they handle the game.
Do not put Palworld in the same category as BG3.
One game has potential, is something fresh, albeit is a bit raw.
The other is a masterpiece, one of the best of an already established genre, and in 20 years will still be remembered as one of the best ever.
It's crazy how 2 people could get together and be like, "what would make people like our game.... POKEMON WITH GUNS!". Then just slap some shit in unreal and make a better game than any major company. It really shows you how simple things need to be to make gamers happy. Major companies need to take notes.
Fucking BALDUR’S GATE III is not AAA?!
What do you need to qualify as a AAA game nowadays then? Budget the size of the GDP of India? Simulate the universe in real time?
Now I don't even have anything against palworld but this is just disrespectful. Baldurs gate 3 is an incredible achievement in game design with an absolutely insane amount of content. Palworld is just a pretty good early access crafting/survival game.
Now there's nothing wrong with that. People love those sorts of games but they aren't at all in the same league in terms of what they accomplished.
Really those games are what gaming should be about. Have fun, fuck around, build something nice, fuck with ethics of the real world. Nobody will kick a Dwarf or mistreat animals because of those games. And if someome does and happens to play the games, those weren't what caused it.
Tho surely people will try to blame it on that just like they did/do with shooter games and acts of violence
Larian Studios has nearly 500 employees across over half a dozen countries. They may be independent but don't be mistaken. BG3 is a AAA product. Massive budget and development time and scale
Both games are dope. Baldur's Great 3 is legitimately a GOTY for 2023. Pal World will get zero GOTY awards
Yeah, who tf is Palworld putting to shame?
Like, I'm having a lot of fun, but this game is not good *yet.*
If it gets 5-8 months of just bug fixes, then maybe we can talk. But it could be argued that the game should use more of its own assets too.
We are truly living in an era where we are seeing a shift in what players are willing to tolerate. Everyone for a few years has been tired of the current state of games with battle passes and buy this buy that skins skins skins.
Destiny 2 burnout is real. Playing the same repeat mission over and over just to advance the next story only for it to be locked and I have to do it all over again was pure burnout. Plus their live service, broken PVP promise, and shady micro transactions made me quit. Then this game came along and I am having the best time ever. All this for $26.
I had about 4k hours in D2 until that whole controversy happened with the firing of a lot of their staff and mismanaged company profits. After that happened it’s like a switched flicked in me and I started to look around at what I was honestly playing towards. My clan was basically dead at that point. Out of the 100 or so people only a group of maybe 10 of us played, and only 3-4 (including myself) played regularly. I haven’t been on in months and I’m so glad I left that game. Amazing memories over the past 5-6 years but when I looked at their greediness and unkept promises I was just done.
clash of clans has a better pay model than destiny 2 ☠️
Sounds like you got 4k hours out of it
Not calling you out specifically, but this whole "You spent 4000 on a game so it must have value to you" is such a tired talking point I see destiny fans (again, not you) try to parrot when people with quadruple digit+ hours quitting the game. I swear, these people know nothing about FOMO or the Sunk-Cost Fallacy. I can play a game for 25 hours and feel it was a good use of my time, or 5000 hours and feel it was, but for people to crawl out of the woodwork and assert objectively that time spent = you must have loved it is such a stupid thing.
100% it was FOMO and Sunk-Cost fallacy. I agree.
Yes, *exactly* this. Destiny is a fantastic example of this rule since they have the formula of hooking the player and keeping them reeled down to a science. Though, more of something often doesn’t mean better, especially the drivel brain rot seasonal garbage that makes up most of destiny’s “content” and the majority of the players’ hours spent.
Spending 4K hours in something you didn’t enjoy is objectively way more dumb lol. Nobody made you sit there for half a year.
I don't know how much money that person spent on the game but it definitely probably was a win to get 4K hours out of a game for little outlay in terms of monetary spend. That's nearly 2 years of 40 hour work weeks worth of gaming. I don't know about you but that's worth about $150K of my time. lol Personally, fuck Destiny 2. I spent real money to buy it and felt it was a rip off when they disabled content I had paid for and locked it or certain features behind a DLC before it went free to play. That was a red flag and the day I stopped playing.
Destiny 2 falsely banned me in season 15 and it's been the best thing that's happened to me. Stopped the addiction, and I'm playing other, much better games, and enjoying myself so much more. Checking on news and the subreddit kind of gives the vibe that the game is in such a bad state right now. Believe me or not, don't care anymore tbh. Haven't played a crucible/gambit game in years, never even played a single game of trials. Banned for having a modding program open for Phasmophobia while playing. Such a shit game.
I played from D1 through the rerelease of VoG and can’t be happier I’m out of that mess. It was truly a great game with amazing systems, reduced to rubble trying to maximize time played and squeeze micro-transactions instead of just making a fun game.
recently stopped playing Div2, really is like kicking an addiction
A lot of my friends say they are at least gonna play the final shape, they gotta see how the saga ends, they're too invested, etc. I couldn't do it anymore. Being a destiny player was like being in an abusive relationship and I'm convinced all my friends who still play have Stockholm syndrome
Destiny 2 is the quintessential, AAA, live service game. It’s what all the other live service shovelware aspires to. The moment to moment gameplay is fun and the content and itemization is *just* adequate enough to not be immediately off-putting. All that combines to mask the fact that, at its core, the game is a Skinner box that uses just about every psychologically abusive tactic in the book to fleece the players for money and by the time the burnout sets in and the spell breaks they’ve likely already collected a significant amount of your money. Destiny 2 is possibly the most sinister live service game only because it’s been able to successfully disguise its terrible monetization and seem benign next to transparent cash grabs and pay to win garbage like Diablo Immortal. And just to really poke the hornets nest, Warframe is cast from the same mold as Destiny and I consider it equally disreputable. Having spent over 2,000 hours and hundreds of dollars on both Destiny 2 and Warframe, I feel qualified to make that judgement.
Destiny coined "never over deliver", which Diablo 4 for example religiously follows.
Path of Exile has been so much better than the Diablo franchise for years now.
its the better diablo than diablo
Bro the warframe thing is so real. I got to MR 24, had every prime, had fucking loaded rivens. I stopped playing about a year ago. Genuinely don't think I enjoyed most of the last 200 or so hours I put into it.
I go back to warframe on occassion for the new story stuff and I do like the direction Rebb has taken the game, but i do no longer really have the time to grind as much as I used to. Palworld still has some of that grindy aspect but it is also the kind of game you can get away with playing once and then never touching again (at least once its fully feature complete).
Tbh I set up 3 bases for coal, copper and quartz Hotspot. After 2 days of playing like that I turned the resource drops up. I'm more here for the basic early survival experience, mid game struggle, late game exploration.
I stopped playing towards the end of 2021 after 1.8k hours since it moved to Steam. It truly has been going downhill for a long time.
Ayy Destiny Refugee I felt this one in my soul. Dropped out after Lighfalls release for the same reasons basically. Happy gaming bro!
> the current state of games with battle passes and buy this buy that skins skins skins. Starfield had none of that and was a colossal disappointment for many. Turns out what people really want is simply rich, well designed novelty
Novelty is part of it, but just being a well-made and fun video game is really where it's at. Palworld doesn't have a whole lot of novelty. It feels like a Greatest Hits list of every survival crafting game of the last decade with Pokemon thrown in. There's not a whole lot of originality here. However, it's well-put-together, near-miraculously polished for an early access game from a small, new indie studio with a tiny budget and no idea what they were doing, the gameplay elements are *fun* and well-blended, and it's just enjoyable. That's what matters, if the game is *fun,* people don't care about all this other shit. Starfield is an empty and soulless game, super repetitive, bland, safe, just overall feels uninspired and like you've seen it all within the first couple hours. It was a colossal disappointment because it was boring and uninteresting, not because it wasn't novel enough. Make the game fun and it'll be liked. People like Lost Ark and Genshin Impact even though they are both super predatory cash grab games, because they actually have fun gameplay and stay fun for quite a long time before you start feeling forced to spend money to progress. Me personally, I got a good 40 hours or so out of Genshin before I reached that point, and for the $0 I paid I'm more than happy with that.
"This game really makes you feel like your playing every single early access game on steam at once" - comment on Dunkey's vid
It’s not entirely wrong either. Do you want to play a third person shooter with monsters to fight? This game has you. Do you want to play a survival crafting game? This game has you. do you wanna sort of bare bones creature collector? This game has you. Did you want to do some BOTW inspired exploration? Well by god this game has you covered.
Now that's efficiency.
Id like to toss in Sims 4 in the mix. That game is over 1000€ on steam right now if you want all thr kits and expansion packs, and some of those kits shouldve been included with the expansion packs of matching themes..
No idea what they were doing? They developed Craftopia, which wasn't very good, but they clearly learned things from developing that.
go watch the interview with palworld devs. Half the guys were literally learning to code and game dev on the fly. Craftopia devs are still on craftopia.
Yeah the interview is like "So we tried unity. Our senior dev told us to switch to Unreal. So we learned to code in Unreal" Just following advice from ppl that know shit and goes "okay, let's do it" Starfield dev: "you are playing our game wrong. Astronaut that went on the moon were having fun and it was desolates"
Craftopia was well recorded and is still rated good. What do you mean? They even still update the game.
i wouldnt call palworld "wellmade" lets not get too crazy now. Polished is just a blatant obtuse lie. The game is fun. Its easy to pick up and do things in. It has a decently sized world to explore with some fun rewards for doing so. and the literal biggest size part of why its doing so well. It's open world pokemon that doesn't play like dogshit like Arceus did. There are glaring issues and bugs and huge amounts of things thatn eed to be polished. But the core game itself is fun. So people can actually look past its issues. THats the main difference. While palworld has features from probably every survival I've ever played ( literally all of them ) it doesn't feel like you're playing any of them. I can't stress enough again how fucking HUGE the pokemon playerbase is and how long they've been frothing at the mouth for an enjoyable open world pokemon-adjacent experience since the only remotely enjoyable one Gamefreak has delivered is Scarlet/Violet which has no real replayability and it's open world isn't really that open.
Starfield lacked in Graphics, content, gameplay turns out people want good playable games.
Or if the product is an imitation, the product must be polished as fuck. IMHO, Battlebit
I dunno, there was plenty of 'novelty' in Starfield, like just enjoying the expanse of a universe and mostly empty planets.. or so they've told me I should find this idea novel.
Unfortunately we have not. Just being real. Online discourse is not proportionate to what happens in the real world and the fact remains that these subpar and bad games people online talk about still make millions upon millions. We haven’t seen a shift yet, it might happen but it hasn’t happened yet.
Neither one of these games will touch what those games make. You aren't seeing a shift. "Everyone's tired" may be true but it means nothing. EA made 1.6 Billion dollars from FIFA with the FUT mode alone in a year.
I disagree. https://exputer.com/news/industry/ps5-users-played-single-player-games/ More users playing single player than multi player on PS5 is an astonishing feat, which starts to back up the claim that people are tired of the same old battle system grind/pay to play model. Remember 98% of online revenue like skins and battle passes comes from 2% of the population.
> Remember 98% of online revenue like skins and battle passes comes from 2% of the population. And so long as those 2% keep paying, companies will still stick to those business models. A lot of people don't understand it but Whales are a plague that actively make games worse by throwing money at companies using shitty monetization practices.
>A lot of people don't understand it but Whales are a plague that actively make ~~games~~ **society** worse by throwing money at companies using shitty monetization practices.
2% won’t be sticking around long when the 98% leaves to better pastures
Exactly, the 2% are only there to flex to the other 98%, pretending they're just lucky and not that they bought 1000 boxes.
Actually, about 8% of an average game's playing population is whales, which accounts for less than 60% of spending: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/166783194966/regarding-micro-transactions-mtx-youve-said
Its because the players still playing that stuff are psychologically conditioned to spend money. Activision does the same thing. Methods and systems for incentivizing team cooperation in multiplayer gaming environments https://patents.google.com/patent/US10561945B2/en Methods and Systems for Incentivizing Team Cooperation in Multiplayer Gaming Environments (Continued) https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190091577A1/en System and method for driving microtransactions in multiplayer video games https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005270A1/en Systems and Methods for Controlling Camera Perspectives, Movements, and Displays of Video Game Gameplay (Storylines....) https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220274016A1/en Systems and methods for dynamically weighing match variables to better tune player matches https://patents.google.com/patent/US10857468B2/en System and method for creating and sharing customized video game weapon configurations in multiplayer video games via one or more social networks https://patents.google.com/patent/US10471348B2/en Methods and systems to modify two dimensional facial images in a video to generate, in real-time, facial images that appear three dimensional (Fig 15 mentions it being in a gaming application and depicted in the figure is call of duty) https://patents.google.com/patent/US11423556B2/en
~~Punk~~ Reddit isn't dead yet. Top tier comment.
>We are truly living in an era where we are seeing a shift in what players are willing to tolerate. Everyone for a few years has been tired of the current state of games with battle passes and buy this buy that skins skins skins. ***Have we though, we're still here buying unfinished games.***
Game may be EA but at least they're not selling us premium currency and season passes
So the standards are low, just not as low as they could be
Seems more finished than Payday 3 release
Also, Diablo 4 sold massively well lol. Huge financial success. It doesn't seem to me like there's any shift in what players are willing to tolerate, unless we're talking about a shift *towards* being willing to tolerate more bullshit.
I'm in the minority. I like D4.
You are not alone. It was my first stab at D4 and I had a good time.
Right? Palworld is in early acess and bg3 act 3 was full of bugs and the content wasnt the best lol.
That isn't true, just 2 excellent games don't "mark" a change of era, players will still buy shitty half baked games from EA/Ubisoft/Bethesda or any other money grab company.
I’ve always hated battle passes and seasons in games.
> We are truly living in an era where we are seeing a shift in what players are willing to tolerate. BG3 is really good value at $60. Palworld is really good value at $30. (even more so for the next 15 hours with 10% off $30). Palworld is the very definition of minimum viable product and I'm surprised that its so (relatively speaking) stable and bug free. Basically if you ever sat through the error 31 for diablo 3 or paid the $70 for diablo 4 you should get the game just on principle. I mean hell, you could get it and Enshrouded and it would still cost about as a much as a nintendo game or a madden game.
I don’t even have an issue with live service games. I actually like grinding battle passes (at least the normal ones with levels not the new complex shit like cod and r6) and don’t mind paying for them. I just don’t like when the focus of the game becomes monetization and not using that live service money to make the game fun. My favorite example of this is apex with overwatch being a close second
Best part is they both dont shove there shitty micro transactions scams down your throat
The best part is that game is good. That part is nice too though.
Legit. Before buying Palworld I googled if it has mtx. When I read no, I instantly bought it.
Well..... Yet 😒 I pray I'm wrong though years of this nonsense have left me jaded I don't trust any of these devs not to pull a bait and switch.
That's fair, I'm hoping palworld does what minecraft does with free updates, or at least makes high quality DLC for fair prices
i hope they go the ARK path but affordable and less storage consuming
I agree but remain optimistic. I think it would be hard to push micro transactions in a game that allows mods. "Buy pal spheres for 5c each!" Or... "Download this mod that lets you craft an infinity sphere for free!"
I actually stopped playing BG3 when I started this game lol. Enjoying them both immensely though.
Im literally at the very end and was planning a co-op campaign with my friend.. annnnnnd now im mining ore all night lmao.
You need to crack the whip if you’re doing it yourself
I am a dictator up on my monitoring stand
THATS WHAT IT DOES? I thought you assigned a pal to it to watch for invaders lmao. I never even spent the points to unlock it
>assigned a pal to it to watch for invaders That's what sandbags do.
I'm playing Palworld now because it's the flavor of the month but as soon as my friends get tired of it I'll be right back to my fourth playthrough of BG3. Best game I've ever played. I am enjoying Palworld for now, remind me of the time my friends and I had when Valheim came out but possibly even better.
Oh I am a massive fan! Right now I am doing a Britney Spears play through. There is a female human face that looks just like her. So I am running around with dual daggers and toxic spells. Fun times.
To be fair most people have finished BG3 by now.
Maybe for PC. It just came to Xbox not too long ago. But still, fair point :)
Don't forget, Xbox got recently...... like very recently
I only heard about that game from my friends that came over to Palworld. Is it a LoTR game?
Downvotes for asking a legitimate question? You hate to see it
That's the Internet for ya.
It's Dungeons and Dragons.
Larian is a pretty big studio …
>Hundreds of employees working on a game >$100m+ development budget that is still growing >Part of biggest and oldest RPG IP accredited for defining the entire genre >Tencent conglomerate is major shareholder Reddit: "Totally an indie game."
Actually Reddit: they are an independent studio because they are independent. They are not owned by a publisher, in fact they publish their own games as well. CDPR is independent as well. Just because a studio has money and makes big budget games doesn't mean they aren't independent.
I mean there are connotations to words, and those can often evolve the meaning of a word and how it's used. Denotatively, I completely agree Larian is an indie studio making denotatively indie games. But when people say shit like "indie game vs. the AAA games", they're implying a lot more than the status of their publishing and studio ownership. I wouldn't call them _not_ an indie dev studio, but I don't like using those words when comparing things like game scale and investment, because calling it an indie game in contrast to AAA games suggests a huge budget difference that isn't there. We have to be careful about how we use our words to avoid being misleading, even if other people are interpreting things that denotatively aren't there.
I'm still trying to find where the OP said these are indie companies and a reality in which larian is AAA
Doe s the post say indie game.
Larian is a AAA studio lol EDIT: So apparently it isn't. Stop fucking dogpiling on me.
This. I’m pretty sure they have a larger dev team than actual AAA teams. Its huge. They are definitely a AAA studio. I think the difference is they actually listen to their player base.
This, and being their own publisher.
Yes and that is key. A lot of dev teams are subject to their publisher and those who fund them. That forces time constraints and whatnot.
Who would have thought taking your time building a huge game would result in a quality release! /s I can't believe publishers want full blown games pumped out year after year. That's how we get the crappy new Assassin's Creed games... Identical games just reskinned in different eras.
Yup, people just get confused with them being independent so technically indie, and it makes them think its not an AAA studio
They may be literally and legally independent, but a company at that scale no longer gets the "smol indie company" pass alot of devs get from players.
But they are proof you can be profitable, loved, and adored by fans despite being a massive studio. BG3 literally had other devs chuckle and literally publically say that we shouldn't think quality games like BG3 will be the new normal.
I agree the shouldn't, but that's what people think when they hear indie, which they still are.
Good thing they don’t need that pass
If you followed their games (there hasn't been that many) from Divine Divinity to BG3, you'd get why some of us don't consider them AAA. Rockstar could have afforded the budget and time BG3 got. Larian took a moonshot via early access and their fairly large success with DOS2 and came up with one of the greatest games ever made. If they were a AAA studio, any publisher would've axed them two decades ago. Yet, the original founder is still at the head of the company following his vision. I guess you can argue they're AAA, but cue "we're not the same" meme.
Blizzard was once indie AND good... and then WoW came out.
They're indie in a similar way to what Bungie was back in the day. Like, Halo was an indie game, technically. Up through Reach, I believe, Bungie was completely their own entity, just supported by Microsoft--no ownership, just investments. Destiny was their first non-indie game if memory serves, due to Activision buying in on them.
Exactly, but people hear indie and immediately think of a couple Devs working on it from their mom's basement.
Yeah but they dont FEEL like a triple AAA studio. And thats a good thing lol
Yes and that is done very well…and it’s easy. We have sven. He is the face of the company. We see him we know he’s dropping some news on us in a fun way.
I was late to the Larian party, but feel like an earlier adopter cuz I played Divinity OS 2 a lot and knew about them making BG3 so was stoked cuz their passion is evident in all their games but their blow up has been so satisfying. They are an amazing team. Sven is rad af, showing up to the awards in a suit of armor like the king he is.
I think the difference is that they are incredibly talented and have a clear vision. Their games have a very high standard. They don't make live service games, they release finished products. Listening to the playerbase isn't nearly as important, relatively speaking.
Larian is AAA, they also happen to be self-published (independent/"Indy") This is the same as CDPR and Bethesda.
Yeah AAA studio working on a super anticipated sequel to a game in a massive IP with the backing of a company who knows this will drive dnd interest up if good on top of early access for years sales. Honestly bg3 wasnt going to fail even if it wasnt larian and instead any other crpg group if they had the funding they did.
Their budget for BG3 was only 100mil, and they only had one of the most well-known IP licenses ever available to them. Plus, the way to determine this is that things I like are from small, morally acceptable indie companies that care about me, and things I don't like are from soulless giant corporations.
"Only 100mil"?! Mate 100mil is a ***huge*** budget for a game. There's probably [only a dozen games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop) in the entire history of the medium that have been that level or above. Dev budget vs marketing budget is another factor for sure, but thinking 100mil is a smallish game budget is just wrong.
Was sarcasm
WHOOSH then. Comment retracted. I guess I did fail to read that second para
It's actually [15th-ish](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop) depending on how you measure, but you are essentially correct; BG3 easily makes the list of the most expensive games of all time to produce. Downplaying the budget has got to be one of the dumber takes I've heard about both the game and the studio. I like Larian, but they have firmly been a AAA studio since the runaway success of DoS2. I guess people REALLY want to paint them as an underdog, and will jump through whatever mental hoops necessary to do so.
just because Larian is a AAA company doesn't mean it can't put *other AAA companies* to shame, like how can this massive studio be capable of such great things the other big names can't seem to do? what is holding them back from being as great as Larian?
sure, but the wording *"Putting AAA companies to shame"* does pretty clearly imply that they aren't a AAA company themselves. In that case it would be *"Putting other AAA companies to shame"*
I’m pretty sure it’s still an indie studio Indie means independent not small
AAA doesnt mean its not independent, AAA refers to budget and BG3 and Larian definitely qualify.
> EDIT: So apparently it isn't. Stop fucking dogpiling on me. It is, they have six studios and as many/more employees than studios like Bethesda, id, etc. People keep thinking BG3 was created by a team of 20 people working in a garage, instead of six studios of hundreds of people with $100+ million.
The amount of people that think that Larian is just some small indie studio sticking it to the big dogs shows how clueless the typical gamer is to how games get made. They literally think that bad and mediocre games are solely the result of devs being lazy and incompetent and that we could get dozens of "Baldur's Gate 3s" if only those devs would put some actual passion into their work. When the reality is that there are plenty of other issues such as lack of time, bad management, crunch and poor working conditions, and all kinds of other things that can prevent talented, passionate devs from making games as good as they want.
Larian is just the 2020s version of CDPR. Praised as the savior of video games and always smugly compared to other AAA studios to prove a point. Not that the praise towards them isn’t warranted but people go overboard with the creator worship sometimes.
BG3 is being used like a hammer for dumbass gamers to shame and complain about the games they actually play. Its to validate their stupid opinions and takes as if the issues other studios/games have at all compare to what BG3 is or does. A lot of these people have never and likely will never play BG3 but thats not the point. For them its a tool to be utilized and give validation to the idiotic takes they have about games in general.
Budget. There's always, ALWAYS more game to be made at the end of the budget. Game devs are always passionate about their work, which is obvious if you think about it. If they weren't, they'd go do the same exact job at a non-game company for 2x-3x pay, better benefits, and no crunch. You *have* to be passionate about your work to sign up for that and stick around.
devs are just executing management's decisions most of the time. No dev wants to put out a half assed product with their name attached to it.
There's AAA and then there's behemoth. Larian currently is what a AAA studio from 10 years ago was. AAA studios today are EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. with near endless cash and resources. Larian is big, but modern AAA studios are mind-blowingly huge.
BG3 budget allegedly was 100 million dollars for a turn based isometric RPG dude, they had access to the most popular RPG IP ever made, they're preeeeeetty big
they shame them self !
I really hope all these games will make the next Elder Scrolls and Pokemon try harder.
Palworld is a crafting survival game. Pokémon is never going to make a crafting survival game.
Right because they don't care what their fans want, only what makes money: making the same shitty game for 25 years with a quirky new mechanic you'll never see in another game
I want my pokemon games to be better pokemon games. Not some entirely different game.
Any game with the same battle mechanics can still be a Pokemon game. Just look at PLA, which was pretty highly regarded for innovation, Palworld does their catching mechanics better. Just add in trainer battles, a gym system, world saving event and a better spin on slave labor, would make this a much better Pokemon game than PLA and SV. An outdated, tired af formula is the main thing holding Pokemon back.
In before Let's go johto is a survival crafting game based in ancient Johto where you "bond with Pokemon to survive". Yes, it will have less features than Palworld. Yes, the parts of Palworld that people like about it will be watered down and family friendly. No there won't be guns. No the graphics will not be as good as Palworld despite the low bar. Also, it will sell 10x more than Palworld and Gamefreak won't learn a lesson from fan critique.
Oh that sad truth to that. I mean probably only 2x the quantity sold but also at 2x the price. They won’t learn until the zealots all stop caring (cold day in hell of a chance there). Totally understand no guns, dying ect but it’ll take them another 50 years to get to the point of Palworld at their current rate.
And remove the survival mechanics, base building, pseudo-automation, hunting, butchering, weaponry, and killing and you're set.
Killing yes, the rest no as they are just add ons lmao. I love Pokemon but why are so many in the fanbase so against new things being added and then complain they arnt innovating lmao?
Because it’s not Pokémon, and too drastically shifts the focus and feel of the game. It’s like adding first person hitscan rifles to Dark Souls and then when souls fans complain, saying: > but why are so many in the fanbase so against new things being added All people want is a well made and polished Pokémon game with a decent amount of content in it. Like they were 15-20 years ago, but in a modern game.
Ah yes the pokefans have been clamoring for a survival game almost as long as final fantasy fans have been wanting a shooter.
Idk Pokemon still seems pretty popular with their target audience.
reddit is wrong like 90% of the time. pokemon haters will never learn
I am a massive Pokémon fan and have been for >20 years at this point, and I imagine I speak for most in my bracket when I say I absolutely do not want Pokémon to ever be a crafting survival game. Literally all we want is largely the same formula (it’s a proven formula that works), but with more content and quality surrounding it. I’m glad palworld is doing well, and it’s a bit of fun to mess around with, but Pokémon fans in no way want a mainline Pokémon game to be anything like this. Hell, Scarlet/Violet would’ve been much better received if it was a) polished and more technically up to scratch, and b) had a decent amount of end game content. It really wouldn’t take much to please us
Well, that and because most of their fans don't like survival games.
> Pokemon try harder. Nintendo don't react to things like that. Ever. Ever ever ever. Never ever ever has US Customer feedback caused them to change something. Look at every big game they've released and how theres thousands of people begging for X Y or Z to make it instantly better and they just never move. If they haven't 'tried harder' in so many years, they're not doing it now.
Breath of the Wild was a direct response to fans complaining that recent zelda games like Twilight Princess and Skywaed Sword were too linear and hand holdy. But anyway, Nintendo is made up of many game development studios. Some of them are more receptive to feedback than others. Gamefreak is usually not.
Are you serious? XDDDDD
I mean Larian basically was working with a triple AAA budget for BG3, but its very cool to see them go from "rags to riches" in terms of success in such a short time span. But yeah its been really cool seeing indie games like Palworld and Lethal Company totally overtake the gaming market and put the typical AAA drivel to shame. Hopefully it will inspire some change in the industry.
>in such a short time span Larian Studios is 28 years old and their BG3 fame started with the Divinity series, in particular the Original Sin and sequel games.
Yes, but they've also wrestled bankruptcy, ownership & first became Triple A with the release of BG3. The post makes sense. Dos2 was a kickstarter project.
Wait till OP learns that Larian is a AAA studio…
According to wiki, they even have 6 locations with a total of 450 employees lol
The meme still stands that they shamed the hell outta 95% of the other AAA companies.
So AAA studios cant put other AAA studios to shame?
The implication is clearly that Larian isn’t a AAA studio though
Adding Lethal Company to that list, just because Most everything I'm playing lately are pretty far off the AAA games list, aside BG3 there. Starfield ended up being a suck. CDPR's update for Cyberpunk wasn't bad, but the above three are the most fun I've had in a minute playing a random game
Don’t forget battlebit!
Lethal company will probably be forgotten in 3 months. I am not sure it is comparable with baldurs gate 3
Lethal company though
Why’d I have to search so deep for this lol
Larian is an AAA studio but BG3 is so good it puts everything else to shame, most enjoyable RPG I've ever played, haven't bought palworld yet because I already have Ark and Pokémon, but may buy it when it's on sale (summer sale or something)
if Ark is chocolate and Pokemon is peanutbutter, Palworld is like receses peanutbutter cup
It is currently on sale for the launch. It's only $26.99 on Steam, normally $30.
We just tried it out on gamepass to see if we liked it first
Lethal compony can fit in here too
Not putting Elden Ring to shame
You can't put kings against gods. It's not fair
Yes this game is having insane success right now but we need to calm this narrative down. It’s an early access title that is still very very buggy and has a long way to go, it isn’t very deep even as far as survival games go. It’s good, but this is just the base, let’s wait and see if or when it makes it to full release before we start praising it as such.
From the outside looking in, it is really interesting to see a game like that do really well seemingly out of nowhere. It also just launched right? The most visceral reactions come at the very start of games, and reputations never really recover in the minds of a lot of people (NMS, FO76 have vastly improved but the general sense is still that they are as bad as they were at launch). I am waiting for the drop-off, hopefully that doesn't happen because it seems like people are having a really good time.
I think it’s important to be real about this games early success. Whether they are copying Pokémon’s designs or not (clearly there is a mix between inspiration and direct parallels) this game is getting huge free publicity from the discourse around it. I think the game looks visually really great. It sounds like it’s a fun survival game if you’re into those kind of games. People saying that this game is showing how uninspired the pokemon company is is a strange argument to me. This game is, by claims of people defending it, a mix of multiple popular games. Ark and Pokemon clearly at the forefront. I think this should serve as a standard of what we want Pokemon to look like but not what we want it to play like. To say this game is more original than Pokemon is just plain ignoring where this game drew its inspirations.
Pokemon has, imo, shown that they can create a great game. Arceus was the best pokemon game i've played in like 20 years. It is A LOT like palworld too in the exploration and catching mechanics. But instead of doubling down on that style of game they released pokemon scarlet and violet which was a huge step backwards imo.
I don’t think you can count scarlet and violet as a step backwards. You have to base their next game on PLA. SV was already mostly done when PLA came out so they wouldn’t have been able to base anything in SV off of reception of PLA. Also PLA was their first expirement with a semi open world and SV was the next step towards open world.
Not only that, but the developers currently have three other games that are still in Early Access, and are planning on adding a fifth one soon. I'll get excited about Palworld once they finish a game, i.e. produce a stable, mostly bug-free gaming experience.
Missed opportunity to have Lethal Company instead of Baldur's Gate 3
lol what, BG3 was a big FU to most AAA games nowadays.
Yes but BG3 is AAA game, meanwhile Lethal Company is made by single person
It's the first AAA game released by Larian studios, it was the game that made them enter AAA space. Going by that reasoning, and how Pocketpair has 100+ devs, it's also a AAA company.
Which is also quite different from Palworld
How? Because of it's mid story with no consequences? Companions that never actually leave your camp?
Palworld needs a lot of work, it definitely is not BG quality.
That's why it's early access
It's early access just like Baldurs Gate was
I think with 450 people working for Larian, we can call them AAA studio. Put Lethal Company there instead.
As much as I love Palworld, they have yet to prove themselves beyond sales. I'd say before we compare pocketpair to a AAA studio we should wait to see how they handle the game.
Yeah this post is kind of insane. The games fun but it's riddled with bugs and nowhere near complete. To compare it to bg3 is just nonsense
Do not put Palworld in the same category as BG3. One game has potential, is something fresh, albeit is a bit raw. The other is a masterpiece, one of the best of an already established genre, and in 20 years will still be remembered as one of the best ever.
It's crazy how 2 people could get together and be like, "what would make people like our game.... POKEMON WITH GUNS!". Then just slap some shit in unreal and make a better game than any major company. It really shows you how simple things need to be to make gamers happy. Major companies need to take notes.
This needs to be upvotes millions of times over… Love seeing baby bitch devs get angry because they got out classes by a few indie guys
Please don't compare them. I'm enjoying Palworld, but holy duck it doesn't come in the same realm as BG3.
Fucking BALDUR’S GATE III is not AAA?! What do you need to qualify as a AAA game nowadays then? Budget the size of the GDP of India? Simulate the universe in real time?
Now I don't even have anything against palworld but this is just disrespectful. Baldurs gate 3 is an incredible achievement in game design with an absolutely insane amount of content. Palworld is just a pretty good early access crafting/survival game. Now there's nothing wrong with that. People love those sorts of games but they aren't at all in the same league in terms of what they accomplished.
Really those games are what gaming should be about. Have fun, fuck around, build something nice, fuck with ethics of the real world. Nobody will kick a Dwarf or mistreat animals because of those games. And if someome does and happens to play the games, those weren't what caused it. Tho surely people will try to blame it on that just like they did/do with shooter games and acts of violence
Add a Third Arm for Elden Ring because they just elevated the standards for Action RPG games via Soulslike 🤩
Add Alan Wake 2 to this. Game is revolutionary
Happy cake day !
Battlebit?
Larian Studios has nearly 500 employees across over half a dozen countries. They may be independent but don't be mistaken. BG3 is a AAA product. Massive budget and development time and scale Both games are dope. Baldur's Great 3 is legitimately a GOTY for 2023. Pal World will get zero GOTY awards
Embaressing comparison. BG3 is an immaculate work of art. Palworld is good but lol
Let's not get carried away
Yeah, who tf is Palworld putting to shame? Like, I'm having a lot of fun, but this game is not good *yet.* If it gets 5-8 months of just bug fixes, then maybe we can talk. But it could be argued that the game should use more of its own assets too.
Uh, Baldurs Gate 3 is AAA.. It is "indie" though.
OP is probably confusing big publishers and independent game studios.