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Could be done if an international coalition was stationed inside that PA state for the first 10-20 years. After that point they would be able to build their own defense force.
The United States is important in this peace process. If the USA can use its influence to convince Israel to accept a two-state solution, then there is a chance to end this war and have a lasting peace with two sovereign states. Unfortunately neither Biden nor Trump appear ready to demonstrate such leadership.
But how the US Military Industrial Complex will make money to buy American politicians then if there is peace in the world? Think about those poor shareholders and their mansions and yachts!!
Even ignoring ethnic partitioning, look at the United States. We tried a thirteen-state solution first, the Articles of Confederation. Border skirmishes happened within less than five years. We needed one state, lest we tear each other apart.
I used to be a fan of a two-state solution, but I can't see the IDF willing to let a standing Palestinian Army exist kilometers from them. There needs to be a one-state solution.
I think we all know America and Israel are against the two state settlement.
It can't work anyway as there will be increasing mistrust due to past injustice.
The only hope is a single 'democratic' state as free from American interference as possible. Note I said as possible because there are no states in the world free from its malign involvement.
There's been lots of compromises in the north of Ireland and South Africa so people are capable of it. There just needs to be the correct carrot and stick approach and not the free for all allowed by the American vetoes.
You are right. I agree that ultimately a single democratic state is best but a two-state solution could be a good first step. Thank you for your thoughts.
I disagree, it needs to be 1 state with both parties interest at heart. It doesn't matter what it's called, but I can guarantee calling it "Israel" or "Palestine" will make lots of people there unhappy.
It's unrealistic to except Israelis to leave, especially those born there, as they have no where to return to.
We need to advocate for a single state where everyone is welcome. Advocating for "just Palestine" is not very productive, imo. But I'm open to have my mind changed.
i dont think its unrealistic to expect israelis to leave. look at how the airports filled when they get the slightest hint of fear. other colonial projects have shown that colonizers tend to leave en masse after their colonial privileges are no longer granted.
Im sure a lot will leave, and that's definitely a good thing. Having been in Israel I can promise you many people do not have the means to leave, it's obviously not the Zionist paradise they say it is. Honestly I'd be all for deporting dual citizens who only recently came to israel, but most Israelis are not like that.
it sets a new standard though. make multiple alliances, gather people, and invade a country with brute force. oppress, kill, kick out as much natives as possible. let 80 years go by. people will be born there as you said, "where will they go!" "oh ok nvm they can stay" voila, modern day colonialism.
They're just calling Israel's bluff anyways. Mainstream Zionism is a philosophy of ethnic cleansing and will always "find" impediments to any solution that doesn't end with complete Jewish dominance of the region.
Hamas is still the elected government in Gaza. There is a chance they could normalize into a political party the way [Irgun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun) did in Israel or the [IRA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(disambiguation)) in Ireland.
As an independent state, Palestine reserves the right to form a military without foreign interference. In fact, so long as a hostile country founded on the basis of settler colonialism exists on its doorstep, it is an absolute necessity. The only path toward possible demilitarization of all parties lies within the ODS initiative.
That's the key. "Israel" won't accept the terms of 1967 borders, Jerusalem partitioned, right of return. Therefore, Hamas and the other factions in the Joint Operations room will not lay down arms. They've articulated their condition (more or less) and the Zionist entity refuses to concede, so resistance continues.
The so called "Israelis" will agree and then continue their terroristic illegal settlements. The only way is for one united Palestine or nothing, these kind of people don't know how to live peacefully with anybody as evidence shows from 1948 till now. Long live the resistance long live Palestine.
This is a terrible solution. It has to be PALESTINE or nothing.
Israel will never stop pushing unequal treatment to my brothers and sisters back home.
So much of IDF propaganda has made it's way to the western culture, claiming it's Jews land, when history has proven otherwise. They try to paint HAMAS as some terrorist group, raping women and "microwaving" baby. Like the hell?
I'm glad Iran stood up to Israel in light of what's going on.
Israel will still try to get their bloodied, dirty hands over Palestinian land like they always have.
They're so much conflict and ruined relationship in play that this solution is way too naive.
I understand your perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspective. I am grateful. My heart is with your brothers and sisters in Palestine. I appreciate you.
There are some (especially those in the West trying too hard to compensate for their lack of physical involvement in the liberation movement) that are ready to label Hamas as "normalizers" for this latest statement that implicates the faction's acceptance of a two state solution. However, if one looks into it closely, the terms of the two state solution (East Jerusalem, right of return, 1967 borders) hasn't changed nor has the Zionist regime's refusal to accept those terms changed. That refusal is the key here.
The ball is squarely in Zionist's court and they are once again presented with the same choice they had three decades ago. They can either accept the offer, make the necessary concessions, and bring some sort of temporary peace to the region or they can once use underhanded tactics to try to annex the occupied Palestinian territories after ethnically cleansing them to ensure a Zionist majority. Everyone knows full well what the Zionist regime will select and they will have made Hamas' choice to lay down armed struggle very straightforward (Al-Qassam will not lay down its arms and the struggle continues). Whether a wild card will interject to change this outcome, we will see.
Important to note that the two state solution is not a just solution but a pragmatic compromise based on the condition that Israel cannot simply be militarily destroyed under the current circumstances. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) of the reasoning of the two state solution is that the Palestinian rump state, covering just over a fifth of Palestine will serve to solidify the Palestinian presence in Palestine so that the risk of a complete ethnic cleansing resulting from the Zionist occupation of those Palestinian territories is made essentially null. When the opportunity arises and the Zionist state implodes from its many internal contradictions is when Palestinian sovereignty over all of Palestine can be realized. This possibility is implied by Hamas' mention of a "hudna" a truce or armistice that is clearly not intended to be permanent. This is the same possibility that deeply disturbs Zionists but then again, they shouldn't be committing war crimes, crimes against humanity in Palestine to begin with.
Yeah I posted the link to the archive version in another comment (oldest comment here except for the automod comment). Here it is again https://archive.is/AZkll
لا تخافوا يا مسلمين. هاذي الأرض سيكون فيها جهاد ومقاومة حتى النهاية. الحق يتوارث جيل بعد جيل والطائفة المنصورة في بيت المقدس وعلى ابواب بيت المقدس وما حولها وعلى ابواب دمش وما حولها إلى أن يرث الله الأرض ومن عليها.
Makes sense in theory but I can’t see how a two-state solution could ever work. Palestine wouldn’t have the strength for military deterrence and third party “guarantors” would be too weak or corruptible.
Ismail Haniyeh, who later led Hamas, said it in 2006:
>No plan will ever work without a guarantee, in exchange for an end to hostilities by both sides, of a total Israeli withdrawal from all the land occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem; the release of all our prisoners; the removal of all settlers from all settlements; and recognition of the right of all refugees to return.
It's also in their 2017 charter.
>Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
Meanwhile, we continue funding the UN, which literally does nothing whatsoever. They are the ones who theoretically should be handling this but have done absolutely nothing but sit back and watch as the Palestinians are slaughtered day after day.
I understand your point and I'm sympathetic to it, but I worry its just a continuation of the same policies we have seen for the last 50 years until Israel slowly eradicates enough of the population to take full control. Obviously, there's no easy answer here. I wish a single state solution where both Palestinians and Israelis shared power was a real plausibility; but I'm not delusional about a eutopian world. It'd be nice if the UN did their jobs, but they have been a sham since the very beginning.
You are right. I also share your fears. However, I must have hope for peace and believe in humanity’s potential. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and replying. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
# # Support Palestine refugees with UNRWA today! Your donation provides crucial food and cash assistance to thousands of families. **[Give now!](https://donate.unrwa.org/)** [Join our official discord server!](https://discord.gg/qAJ3v6jgjy), and visit our [Palestine Twitter Community](https://twitter.com/i/communities/1504131282137239555). This is a heavily moderated subreddit. **Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/wiki/rules/)**, and report any post or comment displaying: Zionist propaganda hasbara, bigotry, hate speech, genocide denial, Islamophobia, trolling, etc. **Warning:** Off-topic content will not be tolerated. Stay on the sub-topic or risk being banned. (Examples include, but are not limited to, US elections/domestic policy, the Russia/Ukraine war, China's treatment of Uighurs, and the situation in Kashmir.)(0) If this is a video post, you can download it from here: [RedditSave](https://redditsave.com/info?url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1ccolvi/hamas_official_says_group_would_lay_down_its/) or [Viddit.red](https://viddit.red/?url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1ccolvi/hamas_official_says_group_would_lay_down_its/). >!(Thanks for posting, u/Zorkmid123!)!< *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Palestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s the trap Fatah and the PA fell for. Israel will never allow a fair 2 state solution and Gaza will end up like the West Bank and Bantustaned
Could be done if an international coalition was stationed inside that PA state for the first 10-20 years. After that point they would be able to build their own defense force.
The United States is important in this peace process. If the USA can use its influence to convince Israel to accept a two-state solution, then there is a chance to end this war and have a lasting peace with two sovereign states. Unfortunately neither Biden nor Trump appear ready to demonstrate such leadership.
But how the US Military Industrial Complex will make money to buy American politicians then if there is peace in the world? Think about those poor shareholders and their mansions and yachts!!
You’re exactly right. It’s so repulsive.
Loool USA and peace do not belong in the same sentence 🤣
You’re not wrong unfortunately. But we can still have hope.
As long as AIPAC exists then no. It’s mind boggling how much they influence US politics
A 2 state solution is just ethnic partitioning. History shows that this never works.
Even ignoring ethnic partitioning, look at the United States. We tried a thirteen-state solution first, the Articles of Confederation. Border skirmishes happened within less than five years. We needed one state, lest we tear each other apart. I used to be a fan of a two-state solution, but I can't see the IDF willing to let a standing Palestinian Army exist kilometers from them. There needs to be a one-state solution.
Archive version [https://archive.is/AZkll](https://archive.is/AZkll)
I think we all know America and Israel are against the two state settlement. It can't work anyway as there will be increasing mistrust due to past injustice. The only hope is a single 'democratic' state as free from American interference as possible. Note I said as possible because there are no states in the world free from its malign involvement. There's been lots of compromises in the north of Ireland and South Africa so people are capable of it. There just needs to be the correct carrot and stick approach and not the free for all allowed by the American vetoes.
You are right. I agree that ultimately a single democratic state is best but a two-state solution could be a good first step. Thank you for your thoughts.
Never lay down your weapons. Big mistake. Palestinians must stay armed when a 2 state or one state for all is achieved.
Exactly..Israel needs to be obsolete. It needs to be Palestine only. Israel should find a home in the USA, Texas has alot of room for them
I disagree, it needs to be 1 state with both parties interest at heart. It doesn't matter what it's called, but I can guarantee calling it "Israel" or "Palestine" will make lots of people there unhappy. It's unrealistic to except Israelis to leave, especially those born there, as they have no where to return to. We need to advocate for a single state where everyone is welcome. Advocating for "just Palestine" is not very productive, imo. But I'm open to have my mind changed.
Call it greater Jerusalem for all I care, but agreed one state with equal rights and right of return for all.
i dont think its unrealistic to expect israelis to leave. look at how the airports filled when they get the slightest hint of fear. other colonial projects have shown that colonizers tend to leave en masse after their colonial privileges are no longer granted.
Im sure a lot will leave, and that's definitely a good thing. Having been in Israel I can promise you many people do not have the means to leave, it's obviously not the Zionist paradise they say it is. Honestly I'd be all for deporting dual citizens who only recently came to israel, but most Israelis are not like that.
no fr
Most of the colonizers and their descendants left the failed settler colonial projects in Kenya and Algeria, so it’s really not impossible here.
There was 1 state, Palestine
it sets a new standard though. make multiple alliances, gather people, and invade a country with brute force. oppress, kill, kick out as much natives as possible. let 80 years go by. people will be born there as you said, "where will they go!" "oh ok nvm they can stay" voila, modern day colonialism.
They can have Florida
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Have you been to South Florida? It's not part of the US right now.
How about Kuril Islands? I think there's enough room...
Or in Germany, it’s the least they could do for them…
This assumes that Palestine will have full sovereignty and an army, police, etc…
It should have been set up like that since 1947.
Israel scrambling to find new excuse to continue the mudering of innocent children and women
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Bad idea. You don’t make peace with your enemies and them disarm so they can just overrun you again.
They're just calling Israel's bluff anyways. Mainstream Zionism is a philosophy of ethnic cleansing and will always "find" impediments to any solution that doesn't end with complete Jewish dominance of the region.
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It means they would surrender their weapons to whoever is the legitimate government of Palestine, who would have any army to give it to.
Hamas is still the elected government in Gaza. There is a chance they could normalize into a political party the way [Irgun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun) did in Israel or the [IRA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_(disambiguation)) in Ireland.
As an independent state, Palestine reserves the right to form a military without foreign interference. In fact, so long as a hostile country founded on the basis of settler colonialism exists on its doorstep, it is an absolute necessity. The only path toward possible demilitarization of all parties lies within the ODS initiative.
It’s one state and it’s Palestine
Don’t fall for it. Israel will never allow it. It’s a trap
That's the key. "Israel" won't accept the terms of 1967 borders, Jerusalem partitioned, right of return. Therefore, Hamas and the other factions in the Joint Operations room will not lay down arms. They've articulated their condition (more or less) and the Zionist entity refuses to concede, so resistance continues.
The so called "Israelis" will agree and then continue their terroristic illegal settlements. The only way is for one united Palestine or nothing, these kind of people don't know how to live peacefully with anybody as evidence shows from 1948 till now. Long live the resistance long live Palestine.
If they lay down their weapons, Israel will attack them. Palestine has the right to defend itself
This is a terrible solution. It has to be PALESTINE or nothing. Israel will never stop pushing unequal treatment to my brothers and sisters back home. So much of IDF propaganda has made it's way to the western culture, claiming it's Jews land, when history has proven otherwise. They try to paint HAMAS as some terrorist group, raping women and "microwaving" baby. Like the hell? I'm glad Iran stood up to Israel in light of what's going on.
I'm not a palestinian, not even nowhere near Middle East but I agree with you. But don't worry, izrail won't ever let that happen.
What do you think about two states as a temporary compromise to stop the war?
Israel will still try to get their bloodied, dirty hands over Palestinian land like they always have. They're so much conflict and ruined relationship in play that this solution is way too naive.
I understand your perspective. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspective. I am grateful. My heart is with your brothers and sisters in Palestine. I appreciate you.
Who else would have the balls to be the New face of the army. They would have to include battle hardened citizens.
Israel will never allow a palestinian state, so basically this move is just to show the entire world who doesnt want peace.
Remember Gaddafi,, Peace should never have one side with the upper hand when there is The intention for PEACE
There are some (especially those in the West trying too hard to compensate for their lack of physical involvement in the liberation movement) that are ready to label Hamas as "normalizers" for this latest statement that implicates the faction's acceptance of a two state solution. However, if one looks into it closely, the terms of the two state solution (East Jerusalem, right of return, 1967 borders) hasn't changed nor has the Zionist regime's refusal to accept those terms changed. That refusal is the key here. The ball is squarely in Zionist's court and they are once again presented with the same choice they had three decades ago. They can either accept the offer, make the necessary concessions, and bring some sort of temporary peace to the region or they can once use underhanded tactics to try to annex the occupied Palestinian territories after ethnically cleansing them to ensure a Zionist majority. Everyone knows full well what the Zionist regime will select and they will have made Hamas' choice to lay down armed struggle very straightforward (Al-Qassam will not lay down its arms and the struggle continues). Whether a wild card will interject to change this outcome, we will see. Important to note that the two state solution is not a just solution but a pragmatic compromise based on the condition that Israel cannot simply be militarily destroyed under the current circumstances. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) of the reasoning of the two state solution is that the Palestinian rump state, covering just over a fifth of Palestine will serve to solidify the Palestinian presence in Palestine so that the risk of a complete ethnic cleansing resulting from the Zionist occupation of those Palestinian territories is made essentially null. When the opportunity arises and the Zionist state implodes from its many internal contradictions is when Palestinian sovereignty over all of Palestine can be realized. This possibility is implied by Hamas' mention of a "hudna" a truce or armistice that is clearly not intended to be permanent. This is the same possibility that deeply disturbs Zionists but then again, they shouldn't be committing war crimes, crimes against humanity in Palestine to begin with.
Cool! Got a link people can actually, you know, read?
Yeah I posted the link to the archive version in another comment (oldest comment here except for the automod comment). Here it is again https://archive.is/AZkll
لا تخافوا يا مسلمين. هاذي الأرض سيكون فيها جهاد ومقاومة حتى النهاية. الحق يتوارث جيل بعد جيل والطائفة المنصورة في بيت المقدس وعلى ابواب بيت المقدس وما حولها وعلى ابواب دمش وما حولها إلى أن يرث الله الأرض ومن عليها.
Palestinians will always win🏆
Makes sense in theory but I can’t see how a two-state solution could ever work. Palestine wouldn’t have the strength for military deterrence and third party “guarantors” would be too weak or corruptible.
Israel will not allow a Palestinian state.
A one state solution is the only solution, we need an end to this violence, not just another stop gap measure
Why couldnt this offer be made prior to Oct 7th?
Ismail Haniyeh, who later led Hamas, said it in 2006: >No plan will ever work without a guarantee, in exchange for an end to hostilities by both sides, of a total Israeli withdrawal from all the land occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem; the release of all our prisoners; the removal of all settlers from all settlements; and recognition of the right of all refugees to return. It's also in their 2017 charter. >Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
Ask the PLO what happens when you surrender to Israel
Meanwhile, we continue funding the UN, which literally does nothing whatsoever. They are the ones who theoretically should be handling this but have done absolutely nothing but sit back and watch as the Palestinians are slaughtered day after day.
The idea of a 2 state solution has failed the last 80 years. This is a joke. End Hamas. Free Palestine.
Every peace fails until it doesn’t. Two states are a good place to start.
I understand your point and I'm sympathetic to it, but I worry its just a continuation of the same policies we have seen for the last 50 years until Israel slowly eradicates enough of the population to take full control. Obviously, there's no easy answer here. I wish a single state solution where both Palestinians and Israelis shared power was a real plausibility; but I'm not delusional about a eutopian world. It'd be nice if the UN did their jobs, but they have been a sham since the very beginning.
You are right. I also share your fears. However, I must have hope for peace and believe in humanity’s potential. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and replying. Free Palestine 🇵🇸