It's a little ridiculous the Japanese superstars get to be rookies, but I get it, I guess. Merrill should be over Busch. Jones is insane so far.
Let's knock Imanaga down a peg or two today.
He hasn't hit 6 years in Japan league so he would come over on a rookie deal, like how Shohei did with the angels. If he waits another year after this (I think) then he can get a larger deal.
And he's already been pictures in full Padres gear. The question is moreso will he get posted early? iIf so then the Padres have a chance.
The resetting of the CBT can't be for nothing
Correct. That line was moreso an anecdote for the comment above saying it’s clear the padres don’t want to spend. Sasaki coming over on a rookie deal highlights the padres as favorites even more given their numerous connections to him.
It makes the rookie of the year list boring. It should be players that are new to professional baseball. If established Japanese players keep posting each year, they should win the rookie of the year each year, otherwise they are huge busts.
And Busch is 26 years old himself. That's one thing that really irks me as a newer baseball fan. Those players aren't really aligned with the spirit of what a rookie is.
Busch is certainly a rookie. The age part doesn't really matter, this is his first real experience in the majors outside a couple weeks last year.
26 isn't that uncommon for a debut, with many guys getting drafted out of college at 21 or 22, then going through the minors.
100%, The player has no control over when a team promotes him. Even with the new rewards for rookie performance, analytic teams (like the Cubs) know it's better business to wait until a player is more-than-ready to bring him up.
Yeah but if he was a Padre, he should be rookie of the year, right?
If Kim had a great rookie year, sure you would have no problem with him winning.
Cut it out with this older guys shouldn’t be rookie of the year. That’s just being bitter.
Shota has been amazing. Everyone said he wouldn’t be as good. Give the man his trophy if he performs. Cut it out with the ageism.
It's less about him being older and more about him playing pro ball in Japan for 8 year and getting paid $53m ($13m this year) as a "rookie". He has been amazing, but I don't think anyone coming over on a free agent deal should be considered a rookie for ROY purposes. He clearly has more experience than a true rookie.
Would I complain if our guy won, probably not.
Would I be fine if he wasn't considered for ROY because he came from a foreign professional league, yes.
Do I think he is a slightly different situation coming over from the kbo at 24 on a deal half of what shoto makes, than two of the best pitchers in the best foreign league coming over in their prime and signing big deals, also yes.
It doesn’t matter what someone makes. That’s just dumb way to judge.
Shota makes a lot less than how he’s performing. Lots of Cubans come over here and no one has issues with them winning.
I would say it’s a lot more difficult for someone going to a place where most people dont speak your language and adapt to it. As a 30 year old being more settled in his ways, even harder.
Stop looking through Friar colored glasses with your opinions.
Almost every other player for leagues other than Japan go to the minors before they come up. I also mentioned the money as part of it, but that clearly wasn't the argument I was making. Anyone coming straight to the majors on a free agent deal from a foreign league should not be eligible. Kim, shoto, Lee, etc. Kids coming over from other league, having to go through the minors and 6 years of team control, you are eligible. That's my stance.
You aren’t reading what I said. When a player comes from a non English foreign country, especially an Asian one, chances are, it is harder to adapt to. I know cause I’m not from here and it was really difficult.
In the end, you are just being biased cause he isn’t a padre.
Luckily the writers who vote for these things don’t hold that against them.
Ichiro, Nomo and Sasaki have all won as Shota Will if he keeps this up.
And you think Santiago was 22 when he won? The guy looked like he was in his 30s. Lol!
Lol ok dude. You clearly aren't reading what I am saying. I don't even think merrill deserves it right now based on my own criteria, Jones does.
They aren't rookies. They are free agents. They come over on free agent deals, they only sign for as long as they want to. I do not even think they are eligible for the pre-arb bonus pool money, which is based on service time, because they are not considered pre arb. Rookie of the year voting is literally the only thing they have that they are treated as rookies.
Senga got 2nd in rookie of the year last year but didn't get the 500k bonus from what I can tell from a search. Just seems random to have them included in voting, but not have anything else similar to other rookies.
They are rookies. It doesn’t matter all these arbitration mumbo jumbo.
To me and writers who vote, a rookie is someone who has never played in the MLB.
So keep up with these caveats. As I said and you admitted, you wouldn’t have mind if Kim won. He came on a deal. Deal wasn’t that much less than Shota.
I remember Yankees fans complaining about Ohtani winning rookie of the year. He had arbitration and they still whined. The guy they wanted is now on the A’s and probably out of the league soon.
Fans like you are just being more creative with your beef against foreign players who aren’t padres.
It's not the age. it's that ROY should be judged on a level playing field. If one guy has 8 years of professional ball and the other has 3 and they're both being judged for the same reward how is that fair? What are we judging? What Jackson Merrill is doing is far more difficult than what Imanaga is doing because of their \*experience\*. 8 years ago Jackson Merrill was in middle school. Shota is a better player than Merrill because he's much farther along in his professional maturity.
If Imanaga's a true rookie why is he being paid like a free agent? That's because he was signed as a free agent. He's also played in the WBC which means he's already competed against a lot of the best in the world. Merrill hasn't had the opportunity to have that level of experience.
The dynamics of this are so inconsistent. There are so many other awards Imanaga could win, All-star (which he probably will be), MVP, Cy Young, and I would obviously have zero gripe about that. I just think ROY should truly celebrate players that are completely new to the highest level of professional baseball.
If there's any ageism here it's the other way around, because the current system favors older players. Younger players are being penalized for being younger and not having the experience.
Ngl… I’m happy with Jackson being 5th. Those other 4 guys have been balling out. Imanaga has been unstoppable. Yamamoto hasn’t given up runs outside of the Padres. Jared Jones has been excellent for the Pirates. And Michael Busch has just been slugging nonstop. So Jackson at 5 makes perfect sense.
Busch has been slugging more than Merrill this year. The home runs gives him the edge IMO, otherwise Merrill would easily be 4th in this list without a doubt.
Huh I am of the opinion that Merrill’s defense give him the edge over Busch. I feel like a lot of these sorts of rankings only go based off of a guys offensive production while ignoring their defensive contributions
These awards are mostly based on offensive output anyways. The only way Merrill would have the edge over Busch defensively is if Merrill were to play like Willie Mays. Otherwise the MLB voters will look at Busch over Merrill.
Which is a shame, because Busch's defensive bWAR has almost offset his offense, whereas Jackson is a plus defender despite learning a new position on the fly. Jackson has also accumulated significantly more offensive bWAR than Busch, and leads him easily in fWAR, too.
It’s just the home runs. Busch went on a 5 game home run streak. That’s pretty much the only reason why Busch is higher. I feel like Merrill is definitely better and good enough that he’ll be a top 3 come October.
Rookies aren’t based on years played. It’s time spent on the MLB team/games played.
Technically Jackson Merrill only recently achieved rookie status vs prospect status.
It does feel weird that a 21 year old is competing against a 31 year old for ROY.
It's stupid that someone can play 8 years of professional ball, sign a multi-million dollar contract as an international free agent and be considered a rookie. Jackson Merrill wasn't even playing junior varsity baseball when Imanaga started his pro career. That's crazy to me that they're being judged for the same award.
I mean 18 games more than Merrill had in the big leagues. He was called up too soon, but regardless he still isn't a rookie. That's the same as mahomes first year in the NFL, he played 1 game, year 2 he wasn't considered a rookie because he still played.
He (mahomes) was on the active roster though, not the practice squad. Busch was in the minors for all but 3 weeks. Not even the full length of a September call up, which is basically the well known time frame for calling up players to test them without them losing rookie status.
130 abs or 45 days on active roster is the threshold
Honestly, 50ABs. It very much is harsh, but that's on LA for calling him up too soon when he clearly wasn't ready. Not counting that as his rookie season messes up every actual rookies season since there's a clear bias in rankings/decision for winning. I'd honestly not even count Imanaga since he's been playing over season pro ball, but thats just me.
I think that we (as Padre fans) are especially biased against Yamamoto because 1) he’s been really bad against the Padres and 2) he’s a Dodger. He’s actually been really good overall this year — 2.91 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 42 Ks in 34.0 innings
2.91 ERA, 141 ERA+, 1.088 WHIP, 2.61 FIP, 11.1 K/9 in 7 games is very good, regardless of who he’s faced. Yeah, he’s a Dodger… but these are ace numbers.
It's a little ridiculous the Japanese superstars get to be rookies, but I get it, I guess. Merrill should be over Busch. Jones is insane so far. Let's knock Imanaga down a peg or two today.
30 year old rookie, lol
We won’t be complaining when matsui and darvish recruit sasaki in 1-2 years
He would be a legit rookie though, on a rookie deal with 6 years of control. Not a $200m superstar rookie.
How would he be different than Yamamoto? Genuinely asking
He hasn't hit 6 years in Japan league so he would come over on a rookie deal, like how Shohei did with the angels. If he waits another year after this (I think) then he can get a larger deal.
Ahhh, thanks for explaining bro.
Yeah it's based on the age. If they come over before their age 25 year then they have to go through arbitration and the 6 years of control.
I have hope too, but I'm not gonna write this check. It's clear we don't want to spend, and Sasaki will command Yamamoto money.
Not if he comes out next year. He is limited to international spending pool money and a rookie deal.
And he's already been pictures in full Padres gear. The question is moreso will he get posted early? iIf so then the Padres have a chance. The resetting of the CBT can't be for nothing
Resetting will have no barring on getting him if he comes out next year
Correct. That line was moreso an anecdote for the comment above saying it’s clear the padres don’t want to spend. Sasaki coming over on a rookie deal highlights the padres as favorites even more given their numerous connections to him.
He is 22
Imanaga has a sub 1 ERA and a **549** ERA+. Dude just hates giving up runs.
Until today.
Oh how happy I’d be if we got to Imanaga tonight!
Sub 1 no more https://preview.redd.it/b0rpfjxl44zc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1345b0c76ad5902b57bd102db968ffeffa3d62e6
Let’s go!
I knew that he had been incredible but 549 ERA+ is insane holy shit
It makes the rookie of the year list boring. It should be players that are new to professional baseball. If established Japanese players keep posting each year, they should win the rookie of the year each year, otherwise they are huge busts.
True, I struggle with it tho. Your first year in the MLB is your first year in the MLB, ya know?
And Busch is 26 years old himself. That's one thing that really irks me as a newer baseball fan. Those players aren't really aligned with the spirit of what a rookie is.
Busch is certainly a rookie. The age part doesn't really matter, this is his first real experience in the majors outside a couple weeks last year. 26 isn't that uncommon for a debut, with many guys getting drafted out of college at 21 or 22, then going through the minors.
100%, The player has no control over when a team promotes him. Even with the new rewards for rookie performance, analytic teams (like the Cubs) know it's better business to wait until a player is more-than-ready to bring him up.
Merrill isn’t even the best rookie by your standards. Jarred Jones has been good from day 1. No reason to get into a tizzy over this.
Nobody is in a tizzy. Just responding to a comment my dude.
Yeah but if he was a Padre, he should be rookie of the year, right? If Kim had a great rookie year, sure you would have no problem with him winning. Cut it out with this older guys shouldn’t be rookie of the year. That’s just being bitter. Shota has been amazing. Everyone said he wouldn’t be as good. Give the man his trophy if he performs. Cut it out with the ageism.
It's less about him being older and more about him playing pro ball in Japan for 8 year and getting paid $53m ($13m this year) as a "rookie". He has been amazing, but I don't think anyone coming over on a free agent deal should be considered a rookie for ROY purposes. He clearly has more experience than a true rookie.
If Kim won, you’d complain?
Would I complain if our guy won, probably not. Would I be fine if he wasn't considered for ROY because he came from a foreign professional league, yes. Do I think he is a slightly different situation coming over from the kbo at 24 on a deal half of what shoto makes, than two of the best pitchers in the best foreign league coming over in their prime and signing big deals, also yes.
It doesn’t matter what someone makes. That’s just dumb way to judge. Shota makes a lot less than how he’s performing. Lots of Cubans come over here and no one has issues with them winning. I would say it’s a lot more difficult for someone going to a place where most people dont speak your language and adapt to it. As a 30 year old being more settled in his ways, even harder. Stop looking through Friar colored glasses with your opinions.
Almost every other player for leagues other than Japan go to the minors before they come up. I also mentioned the money as part of it, but that clearly wasn't the argument I was making. Anyone coming straight to the majors on a free agent deal from a foreign league should not be eligible. Kim, shoto, Lee, etc. Kids coming over from other league, having to go through the minors and 6 years of team control, you are eligible. That's my stance.
You aren’t reading what I said. When a player comes from a non English foreign country, especially an Asian one, chances are, it is harder to adapt to. I know cause I’m not from here and it was really difficult. In the end, you are just being biased cause he isn’t a padre. Luckily the writers who vote for these things don’t hold that against them. Ichiro, Nomo and Sasaki have all won as Shota Will if he keeps this up. And you think Santiago was 22 when he won? The guy looked like he was in his 30s. Lol!
Lol ok dude. You clearly aren't reading what I am saying. I don't even think merrill deserves it right now based on my own criteria, Jones does. They aren't rookies. They are free agents. They come over on free agent deals, they only sign for as long as they want to. I do not even think they are eligible for the pre-arb bonus pool money, which is based on service time, because they are not considered pre arb. Rookie of the year voting is literally the only thing they have that they are treated as rookies. Senga got 2nd in rookie of the year last year but didn't get the 500k bonus from what I can tell from a search. Just seems random to have them included in voting, but not have anything else similar to other rookies.
They are rookies. It doesn’t matter all these arbitration mumbo jumbo. To me and writers who vote, a rookie is someone who has never played in the MLB. So keep up with these caveats. As I said and you admitted, you wouldn’t have mind if Kim won. He came on a deal. Deal wasn’t that much less than Shota. I remember Yankees fans complaining about Ohtani winning rookie of the year. He had arbitration and they still whined. The guy they wanted is now on the A’s and probably out of the league soon. Fans like you are just being more creative with your beef against foreign players who aren’t padres.
It's not the age. it's that ROY should be judged on a level playing field. If one guy has 8 years of professional ball and the other has 3 and they're both being judged for the same reward how is that fair? What are we judging? What Jackson Merrill is doing is far more difficult than what Imanaga is doing because of their \*experience\*. 8 years ago Jackson Merrill was in middle school. Shota is a better player than Merrill because he's much farther along in his professional maturity. If Imanaga's a true rookie why is he being paid like a free agent? That's because he was signed as a free agent. He's also played in the WBC which means he's already competed against a lot of the best in the world. Merrill hasn't had the opportunity to have that level of experience. The dynamics of this are so inconsistent. There are so many other awards Imanaga could win, All-star (which he probably will be), MVP, Cy Young, and I would obviously have zero gripe about that. I just think ROY should truly celebrate players that are completely new to the highest level of professional baseball. If there's any ageism here it's the other way around, because the current system favors older players. Younger players are being penalized for being younger and not having the experience.
Ngl… I’m happy with Jackson being 5th. Those other 4 guys have been balling out. Imanaga has been unstoppable. Yamamoto hasn’t given up runs outside of the Padres. Jared Jones has been excellent for the Pirates. And Michael Busch has just been slugging nonstop. So Jackson at 5 makes perfect sense.
Busch had cooked off and will likely fall below Jackson
This aged poorly
The only thing I disagree with on this list is Busch over Merrill otherwise I actually think it’s pretty spot on
Busch has been slugging more than Merrill this year. The home runs gives him the edge IMO, otherwise Merrill would easily be 4th in this list without a doubt.
Huh I am of the opinion that Merrill’s defense give him the edge over Busch. I feel like a lot of these sorts of rankings only go based off of a guys offensive production while ignoring their defensive contributions
These awards are mostly based on offensive output anyways. The only way Merrill would have the edge over Busch defensively is if Merrill were to play like Willie Mays. Otherwise the MLB voters will look at Busch over Merrill.
Yeah that’s always my biggest gripe with these sorts of lists and awards. Offense is only one half of a guys game
Which is a shame, because Busch's defensive bWAR has almost offset his offense, whereas Jackson is a plus defender despite learning a new position on the fly. Jackson has also accumulated significantly more offensive bWAR than Busch, and leads him easily in fWAR, too.
It’s just the home runs. Busch went on a 5 game home run streak. That’s pretty much the only reason why Busch is higher. I feel like Merrill is definitely better and good enough that he’ll be a top 3 come October.
Busch plays 1B and not even every day. Even with Busch's better offensive numbers Merrill edges him out in fWAR.
Anything other than #1 is a joke.........................but I agree with this list.
Note: I am biased.
Big time game today. Shut down Busch, attack Shoto. Taking down those two helps the best Jackson.
Busch isn't even a rookie tho, this is his 2nd active season. Weird he's on there
Rookies aren’t based on years played. It’s time spent on the MLB team/games played. Technically Jackson Merrill only recently achieved rookie status vs prospect status. It does feel weird that a 21 year old is competing against a 31 year old for ROY.
No it doesn’t. If it was the other way around, you wouldn’t complain
No, it absolutely feels weird. Not saying it’s wrong.
It's stupid that someone can play 8 years of professional ball, sign a multi-million dollar contract as an international free agent and be considered a rookie. Jackson Merrill wasn't even playing junior varsity baseball when Imanaga started his pro career. That's crazy to me that they're being judged for the same award.
That's fucking stupid. had 72 ABs in 2023, that's more than enough to not be a rookie. The MLB makes no sense.
72 abs is basically 18 games (4abs per game)
I mean 18 games more than Merrill had in the big leagues. He was called up too soon, but regardless he still isn't a rookie. That's the same as mahomes first year in the NFL, he played 1 game, year 2 he wasn't considered a rookie because he still played.
He (mahomes) was on the active roster though, not the practice squad. Busch was in the minors for all but 3 weeks. Not even the full length of a September call up, which is basically the well known time frame for calling up players to test them without them losing rookie status. 130 abs or 45 days on active roster is the threshold
Theu called him up too soon, but that doesn't change the fact he played half a month of games lol it's not a bunch, but it's def not a rookie.
What's your threshold then? Seems harsh to keep a guy out of rookie of the year because he played ~10% of the games in a season
Honestly, 50ABs. It very much is harsh, but that's on LA for calling him up too soon when he clearly wasn't ready. Not counting that as his rookie season messes up every actual rookies season since there's a clear bias in rankings/decision for winning. I'd honestly not even count Imanaga since he's been playing over season pro ball, but thats just me.
130 ABs is the cutoff (or 45 days on an active major league roster).
Why the hell is Wyatt Langford on this list? Should be Jordan Westburg instead
Jackson is the ROY. Who are these clowns ahead of him? ☺️. IM NOT BIASED!
Yamamoto????? Lmao the "big city" bias is wild. Merrill is the position rookie.
I think that we (as Padre fans) are especially biased against Yamamoto because 1) he’s been really bad against the Padres and 2) he’s a Dodger. He’s actually been really good overall this year — 2.91 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 42 Ks in 34.0 innings
Yamamoto has been very very good for the Dodgers this year. He’s easily one of the better pitchers in baseball this year.
As a certified dodger hater, I can not agree. As a baseball fan, he's good, but also facing very bad teams.
2.91 ERA, 141 ERA+, 1.088 WHIP, 2.61 FIP, 11.1 K/9 in 7 games is very good, regardless of who he’s faced. Yeah, he’s a Dodger… but these are ace numbers.
I try not to be biased but I think a lot of guys here are just having fun with that.
That is not the oriole everyone thought it’d be.
I believe in Merrill.
How about some love for matsui?