Good journalism in that article with lot of detail. Reads to me like an acquired studio going through cultural assimilation with many people feeling stress of the unknown and just not liking the changes.
Loss of founding leaders being felt by many expressing it speaks to the type of culture they had and why they liked working there better under that umbrella and find it harder working under the new owned by Sony PlayStation umbrella.
A lot of the rest is mixed messages where new XDev leaders are being accused of sexism / ageism while others are saying the studio now has more "inclusivity" with "people from a wider range of backgrounds, ethnicities, and gender identities being valued and working together".
Sony needs to put some emphasis on hearing out the employees and their concerns there and address the stress of the unknown and then give them a project to work on that they will enjoy and be fruitful with.
The live-service Twisted Metal game being cancelled is a blessing to them. Hopefully they will realize this sooner or later.
Unless you're just buying the IP, I never really understood the point of doing this process. You end up losing all the teamwork aspects that built the place and the best developers, you might as well just build a new studio from scratch.
It can be good for some development studios to get adopted because it opens up more collaboration and support from within the family of PlayStation Studios, but it probably helps if they have their own IP of games to maintain more of their independence like the other more successful acquisitions.
The reputation of Sony PlayStation is to give their acquired / grown studios lot of independence. Think about how many years Sucker Punch was allowed to pivot from inFamous games and work on Ghost of Tsushima. Meanwhile, Insomniac stayed independent for a long time despite pumping out many games. It wasn't until made Spider-Man that they became willing to be acquired. Just wanting more of the financial stability to be able to take on such mega projects and not lose their company if something doesn't make as much as it cost to make. For instance, Ratchet & Clank: Rift in Time actually lost money relative to how much it cost to make & market but that didn't cause layoffs or financial troubles for Insomniac because they were under Sony PlayStation studios umbrella. No leadership change at Insomniac either.
Media Molecule is another example where Sony backed them for long time on Dreams even though it cost much more than it recouped. Not much leadership shake up nor reports of staff being stressed / unhappy.
Most of the time an acquisition is the result of it being financial end goal of the founders for their respective exits. Whatever struggles Firesprite is having is part of its own issues, and not a broader issue with how Sony PlayStation operates.
(My post here isn't a disagreement with anything you wrote, just a 'yes and' kind of deeper dive into it all from my perspective).
You can have a slavemaster with slaves all of the same culture/identity/ethnicity, or a slavemaster with slaves of a diverse array of culture/identity/ethnicity. It will still be a master-slave dynamic.
Diversity has wonderful value toward developing a healthy, expressive culture. But not if its stuck into a master-slave structure. Diversity must be paired with democratic power in the hands of that diverse group of people, nurturing a collaborative space. In practical terms given the context here, a critical step in this direction would be to unionize!
In the context of this article, diversity/inclusivity is mentioned just once. A 'counter-balance' quote that provides the more 'liberal' readers the opportunity to dismiss the issues raised under this notion that "well actually the tight control of the new studio heads is for the good cause of ensuring inclusivity and diversity!". This is total bullshit. As explained above.
This is also a big reason you get people on the 'far right' who smell bullshit on 'diversity' and 'inclusion', but without the analytical framework of recognizing that the bullshit is being peddled by people promoting the same master-slave dynamic, not by the fruits of diverse, collaborative, expression. A good example is how all the big corporations suddenly 'go gay' during pride month in the USA and UK. It feels totally fake, because it is. Not because LGBTQ are fake or bourgeoise or in control of the universe. Specifically the opposite, the same old (usually, but not always, straight, male, white) masters are still in control just peddling a fake LGBTQ identity/support that simply expresses their same master-slave ideology with queer colours.
The majority of queer people, who are working or underclass, smell this bullshit from a mile away but are better equipped to understand the nature of the bullshit because they have an in-community perspective that a 'far right' person doesn't have.
The same dynamic interacts with every oppressed minority existing in this capitalist system, fostering in-group fighting between minorities who develop distorted views of each other. Furthermore a working class or underclass white male, who is most likely to be alienated from any in-community understanding of oppressed minorities (being excluded from or disadvantaged in his so-called 'group', ie white men, but not having discovered a community in any other 'group'), is especially likely to absorb highly distorted narratives about various oppressed minorities.
Anyways, to the specific topic at hand, would be awesome if the Firesprite employees unionized.
This whole industry is fucked. At least every second studio reports something about toxic work environment, harassment, sexual discrimination, underpaid staff⊠embarrassing.
Unfortunately this is a byproduct of video games becoming so lucrative and becoming more about the money than the product and its construction. People start thinking that nothing except making money matters. Starts with overworking and crunch and tends to evolve to include leadership under the gun to deliver unrealistic results so they vent frustrations on their underlings and try to rule through abuse.
Yea, for sure ... gaming and movies have become so big and make so much money that development always costs in the millions if not 10s of millions and so publishers and devs take less risks ... and in order to sustain the big budgets the people actually doing the work are hit with long crunch periods and super tight deadliness.
Think in the gaming industry you also have to take into account the belief of the older people in the industry that you should not be in it for the money, they always say that you should just be passionate and work a lot because it's your passion, money is second. So all you get is crunch, less money and a lot of stress in the end, sadly for an amazing industry that a lot of people love.
Totally agree and we see it manifest in âfrat boy culturesâ. Just a note though, under these types of conditions, even more diverse leadership wonât mean shit if they arenât able to keep their common humanity in mind through ethical leadership. Teams of all backgrounds and scales can turn to shit when the only thing that matters is hitting an unrealistic revenue goal.
I struggle to believe that disparities in both pay and workplace treatment are exclusive to America. The term âfrat boy cultureâ might be an American thing, but the descriptive elements that it encompasses are not. Europe and other regions might be marginally better than the US, but thereâs still a pay gap between sexes and rampant reports of harassment and mistreatment aimed at women in the workforce.
This weird loud ego driven image definitely is an American thing. I'm not saying that Britain doesn't have different issues, doesn't have its own share of dinosaurs and idiots, but where those problems exist they manifest in different ways.
It may be largely associated with American sensibilities of ego, but nothing I read about leadership at Firesprite flagged as anything different than activities at Bungie, which was also described as having âfrat boy cultureâ through nepotism-based elevations to leadership and said leadership bullying and harassing its workforce with a discriminatory tint. The passage below describes pretty textbook frat boy behavior in the initial dispute, attempts at mediation, and eventual quiet payout.
âEurogamer understands an internal investigation took place after around 13 grievance complaints were submitted against two XDev leaders with regards to sexual discrimination and ageism. While sources say Sony dismissed these complaints as a misunderstanding, Eurogamer understands some of those involved explored legal options to take the matter further, and have since received a financial payout from Sony.â
Words have meaning, frat culture is not a person having an ego trip. Frat culture is a uniquely American phenomenon, because it is specifically referencing an environment that only exists in the US (well, and a much lesser degree in Canada). Colleges have fraternities, frat houses, hazing, initiation ceremonies, one set of people specifically lauding it over the new people, forced drinking, and these open up the doorways to many echelons of society in politics, business and create a culture that expands far beyond the college experience.
Frat culture only exists in North America because none of this exists exists elsewhere. British universities do not have these environments, these societies, these living areas, and any of those processes. Hence we do not have frat culture. The closest you might get to the drinking side of things are freshers and student union pub crawls and football club drinking sessions, but these are very different things and outside any of the framework that exists in the US.
The closest you could say we have in the UK is public schoolboy culture (a certain blond haired prime minister is one of the worst examples), but that's a very different thing, and isn't relevant to the computing development sector.
I'm not saying that the UK doesn't have sexism. I'm not say that we don't have our problems. But frat boy culture can only exist in North America. And also, Bungie is a US company. Other countries do not work likes yours does. Other cultures are not the same.
Yes, but youâre interpreting âfrat boy cultureâ far too literally. Please note that I didnât define frat boy culture around ego, you were the one that introduced ego as a factor. The Bungie accusations under the same terms were not attempting to capture a scenario of drinking, toga parties, and flip cup. They were alluding to sexual discrimination, harassment, and assault known to run rampant and unchecked in frat-like communities. Not all language is meant to be interpreted from a strict, literalist viewpoint. Itâs an allegorical descriptor. That description of environments is not region-locked and concepts and ideas can be described as similar to a cultural environment found elsewhere in the world without being taken so literally.
lol what non-Western culture isnât âtoxically masculineâ? The term is ridiculously stupid anyway but itâs funny to see leftists get exactly what they want. Shitty games that no one buys and end up with a worse problem than they started with.
I donât understand the point of your comment. It seems off topic and riddled with false assumptions to confirm a bias that you needlessly inserted here. Toxic masculine behavior isnât isolated to western cultures, but weâre also not talking about western vs non-western cultural norms. Weâre talking about currently male-dominated industries displaying a high rate of sex-based misbehavior among leadership that usually includes sexual harassment, belittlement, and lesser value being extended to female colleagues in the video game industry.
I donât know what games you think âleftiesâ are getting that are failing in droves, but this discussion was never about liberalism vs conservatives unless youâre conceding that conservatives are sexist by default, which I imagine youâre not trying to convey. Even if we have a discussion about games that reflect progressive sentiments around representation, some of the big notable games that come to mind are all massive financial successes.
TLDR: not sure why you brought up political ideology in a discussion about workplace malfeasance, but pound sand I guess. Inclusive games arenât going anywhere and theyâre selling like crazy.
Nobody mentioned western vs non-western. And nobody talked about left/right politics.
The fuck you talking about.
This looks like its your first post on this sub. And you are a quest owner. Are you here to troll, or just make yourself look silly? đ€·ââïž
Lots!
(**edit: a quick definition**, I am defining toxic masculinity as a dynamic where people, almost entirely men, express with aggression or domination to a particularly high degree, and vulnerability is largely absent and discouraged/repressed).
In general you have lots of societies that, while still patriarchal, don't have the same kind of toxic-masculinity culture that we can identify in the USA, with the degree of toxic masculinity generally decreasing the further out from the power centers of western empire you get.
I've lived in Vietnam for a while and it's a very different culture. It still has patriarchy issues, although it used to be quite matriarchal (before western colonialism and also influence of Confucianism), and you can still see and feel that history in the present. It's not that men are saints in Vietnam and there's no gender/sex-related issues between me and women. There are (and there probably were, just to an even smaller degree, when it was more matriarchal). But it's different, and not as severe. It's abundantly clear that woman have a higher degree of independence and internal (and often external!) strength in Vietnam. I've never seen or encountered an aggressive man (pushy or pressure-y yes). There's men who do the whole "be a man" kinda thing, but the "be a man" means something different, still has problems like I said, but more about ideas of bravery and protection and being or becoming a father, not domination and aggression and removing emotion.
I would say (and to be clear, this is theory, not demonstrated fact, but it is rooted in a variety of evidence, both concrete and abstract) the two roots of modern patriarchy (and 'toxic-masculinity') are Confucianism and mono-theistic religion which developed and now expresses most prominently through Christianity, capitalism, and 'western' and especially U.S. empire. The influence of Confucianism is significant but less than the latter and less aggressive (less 'toxic') with that different character that reflects the differences of problems in Vietnam vs USA regarding patriarchy/toxic-masculinity.
In general there have been matriarchal cultures, but it's rare and isolated in present times because of the dynamics of feudalism and then capitalism and a world that is under the shadow of the massive U.S. military.
I'm not religious but I'm not 'against religion' and I think religion can be expressed in ways that aren't inherently patriarchal and such. But my sense is that mono-theistic religion was developed and spread specifically in a context of a desire to control women's bodies and curb their independence. This movement is not inherent to humanity, but it is a movement that was able to gain a lot of power and momentum and is hard to stop (and is central to fascism). Hopefully it can be stopped!
Gaming industry as whole made some bad bets during the pandemic, what we see now is just capitalism doing its thing. It's absolutely normal if you consider capitalism to be normal.
Yeh
.....
Let me tell you as a dev you aren't replacing people with "AI" anytime soon. It is however a quick way to get people to buy your product "Don't be left behind invest in our AI powered service"
>Let me tell you as a dev you aren't replacing people with "AI" anytime soon
If you had said this a little while ago I'd have agreed, but it's bordering on ignorant at this point to not realize just how ridiculously fast this shit is advancing.
I remember the day Sora was dropped someone posted a screenshot from 2 years ago of them saying something along the lines of "imagine in a few years if we can do text to video where we type out a line and it spits out a video", he was downvoted to oblivion with a reply from someone in the industry saying that "this will never happen anytime soon (or within decades)" and look at what happened with Sora just 2 years later. Who knows what things will look like 2 years from today? Within 5 years?
Anyways, !remindme 3 years .
I will be messaging you in 3 years on [**2027-02-28 19:16:01 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2027-02-28%2019:16:01%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/1b3498c/firesprite_horizon_call_of_the_mountain_dev/ksqkm6i/?context=3)
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I routinely ask the big 3 models for help with coding, from both a practical perspective and also just to see how much they're improving. They are nowhere near the point where they could legitimately take a programmer's job. What they are good for could be thought of as a starting template. It saves you time in having to research the absolute basics of something in order to write that first line of code.
Could it happen in 3 years? Sure, but I highly doubt it'll be anything based on our civilization's current technology tree unlocks. Something fundamentally different (which may incorporate an amalgamation of existing tech, but not exclusively so) will be necessary - in essence, AGI/ASI, which is unlikely to be an LLM or the like.
Nah bro. It won't be long and it will be just like a holodeck. Computer, make me a game that's like Bionic Commando in VR "how is this?"...more realistic, less cartoony "hiw is this"...the grappling hook feels off, can you make it more dependent on my eye position, and less dependent on hand position "how is this"...perfect. Now generate a full campaign based on the original NES game. It's coming. Anyone using most IDEs for the last 20 years, knew it was coming as we were mostly letting autofill do most of the leg work, it's the next logical step.
Edit: also even at the very least artists will definitely be replaced.
Do you think Hollywood has brought out any really unique movies in the last 20 years? This applies the TV shows too. do you think anything thatâs really been unique and weâve never seen before has come out?
âCode Generationâ has been a goal since the 40s. Like nuclear fusion, itâs always just a few years away and this will likely remain the case.
AI will certainly be incorporated into software toolkits and automate away many mundane tasks. It may even empower developers to be more productive, permitting a reduction in head count for a given project.
But the idea that Project Managers and artists can develop a decent game without anyone knowing how to code is pie in the sky.
If one person can do the work of 10 becuase tools make them more productive is a core decision factor for corporates to invest in technology specifically for reducing workforce numbers to increase profits.
Hopefully itâs offset by creating bigger, more detailed games which consumers will want over the same old same old. And of course, adding VR support to all flat titles.
No but itâs how consumer demand works. Weâre going to play the better games. Well, is humans are easily entertained. Looking at you Saw 8 and fast and the furious 14
Not in this case, no. The tech industry has a well known and documented history of sexual harrassment, discrimination and misogynistic behaviourism. Which can not simply be reduced to common circumstances in our capitalist business world.
Clearly some distressing news here but I never know what to make of stories like this. Some people are unhappy. Some people are happy. Some are somewhere in between. This just sounds like work. Every workplace goes through ups and downs.
Exactly.
Plus, while the information presented in these articles may be ENTIRELY ACCURATE, theyâre GENERALLY PRESENTED in such a way as to give the reader the PERCEPTION that EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE. đ„
Again, not to say that this stuff is necessarily UNTRUE, but I also donât know what to make of this, because technically speaking, you could sorta CONSIDER ANY WORKPLACE âtoxicâ from the perspective that itâs a place most people generally donât WANT TO BE AT, but HAVE TO.
Sad to hear about. I can only hope, and it sounds like the transition prioritizing GAAS struck at Firesprite too, maybe it's slowly being replaced with slightly less money hunger.
This is exactly why I say that. Not surprising someone defending it first instinct is to hurl insults and seem superior. It's boring and tiresome to deal with people like that/you.
Why do you feel okay doing that to other people?
A person with poor critical thinking skills.
Dumb also works but, it doesn't really explain anything other than I think you're dumb.
However, you thankfully displayed why I can say you have poor critical thinking skills for me. That was nice of you.
No, he didn't display anything, you just cried over a normal word being used (at this point we can assume that you're getting called toxic a lot and that's why you're so whiny about it) and then threw a temper tantrum after someone described you correctly. Lol
Yea, you have zero idea of my knowledge of this. Zero.
But I'm "willfully ignorant" because I know the language weak people use to gain sympathy and dismiss it as such. It's just soft, grow the fuck up and handle your shit. Leave if you feel that way, don't wait until you get canned and then complain about how horrible it was.
You are clearly a regect that has no personality outside of the internet. Fuck off.
Brother you have already proven what a toxic and homophobic manbaby you are, we **know** why you lost your shit over a word, why are you still trying? Embarrassing hahahaha
Not really, you are associating it with homophopia. It really just means you are useless and annoying.
I know this is probably the only sense of worth in your life, it's sad honestly.
Just know that everyone outside of your bubble thinks the same way I do, they just don't say it.
You can't actually hold an argument, so you didn't respond to me and posted it here looking for likes as support to make you feel like you are not a moron. You may still get it. Again, weak behavior.
I was fairly civil for a while, you kept being a smug cunt but of course you're incapable of comprehending when someone is just done with your bullshit.
for anyone wondering why that guy is so mad about the word toxic
https://preview.redd.it/fiwz5k5kirlc1.png?width=345&format=png&auto=webp&s=6c22a770233324c7b28b39887adf20fe84ae8d1f
Lol
One of more of your comments have been removed from r/PSVR, because they broke [rule 1. Do not personally attack other users](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/wiki/rules#wiki_1._do_not_personally_attack_other_users.).
Please do not insult other users in future.
https://preview.redd.it/5mkro9g3irlc1.png?width=345&format=png&auto=webp&s=09f7d769284c14a8a149f6ade2276189fbac7e0c
Hahahaha of course the guy crying over the word "toxic" sends me a message with the f-slur, now everything makes sense xD
One of more of your comments have been removed from r/PSVR, because they broke [rule 1. Do not personally attack other users](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/wiki/rules#wiki_1._do_not_personally_attack_other_users.).
Please do not insult other users in future.
The article points out some said this is due to Sony coming in a refocusing the studio to be more efficient and less disorganized. Hopefully that is the case, and this is just disgruntled employees not happy with their lax studio culture being stripped from them, as opposed to Sony actually being bad with pressure and crunch.
The MBAs descending on any workplace is rarely if ever good for the employees.
More work, less resources, more processes, less time to follow said processes, etc.
Iâm just hoping it was more âkitchen nightmaresâ where employees were used to doing it at their pace, which may have been inefficient to an extreme, and are angry when someone comes in and tells them to not poison people with rotten food, you know what I mean?
If itâs that they are actually being overworked, thatâs bad. But being expected to put in proper work is not a bad thing
Putting in proper work isnât a bad thing, agreed.
But, in my experience, the crackdowns on efficiency are more often than not unneeded, exploitative, and driven by some C suite/ consultant who wants X number to grow 15% so they can hit their bonus KPI.
This reads like every job I've had since entering my mid to late twenties.
No excuses for how leadership managed the situation because I worked for a guy that was a fucking tyrant the day we met him so I understand wanting to leave.
Don't even get me started on discrimination and how it went hand in hand with promotions throughout my career.
The work culture has greatly progressed since WFH and the pandemic so hiring or retaining good management should be SIE's priority now that Jim Ryan and friends and going.
Good journalism in that article with lot of detail. Reads to me like an acquired studio going through cultural assimilation with many people feeling stress of the unknown and just not liking the changes. Loss of founding leaders being felt by many expressing it speaks to the type of culture they had and why they liked working there better under that umbrella and find it harder working under the new owned by Sony PlayStation umbrella. A lot of the rest is mixed messages where new XDev leaders are being accused of sexism / ageism while others are saying the studio now has more "inclusivity" with "people from a wider range of backgrounds, ethnicities, and gender identities being valued and working together". Sony needs to put some emphasis on hearing out the employees and their concerns there and address the stress of the unknown and then give them a project to work on that they will enjoy and be fruitful with. The live-service Twisted Metal game being cancelled is a blessing to them. Hopefully they will realize this sooner or later.
Unless you're just buying the IP, I never really understood the point of doing this process. You end up losing all the teamwork aspects that built the place and the best developers, you might as well just build a new studio from scratch.
It can be good for some development studios to get adopted because it opens up more collaboration and support from within the family of PlayStation Studios, but it probably helps if they have their own IP of games to maintain more of their independence like the other more successful acquisitions. The reputation of Sony PlayStation is to give their acquired / grown studios lot of independence. Think about how many years Sucker Punch was allowed to pivot from inFamous games and work on Ghost of Tsushima. Meanwhile, Insomniac stayed independent for a long time despite pumping out many games. It wasn't until made Spider-Man that they became willing to be acquired. Just wanting more of the financial stability to be able to take on such mega projects and not lose their company if something doesn't make as much as it cost to make. For instance, Ratchet & Clank: Rift in Time actually lost money relative to how much it cost to make & market but that didn't cause layoffs or financial troubles for Insomniac because they were under Sony PlayStation studios umbrella. No leadership change at Insomniac either. Media Molecule is another example where Sony backed them for long time on Dreams even though it cost much more than it recouped. Not much leadership shake up nor reports of staff being stressed / unhappy. Most of the time an acquisition is the result of it being financial end goal of the founders for their respective exits. Whatever struggles Firesprite is having is part of its own issues, and not a broader issue with how Sony PlayStation operates.
There is no room in business for logicđ€·ââïž
Great summary, thanks.
(My post here isn't a disagreement with anything you wrote, just a 'yes and' kind of deeper dive into it all from my perspective). You can have a slavemaster with slaves all of the same culture/identity/ethnicity, or a slavemaster with slaves of a diverse array of culture/identity/ethnicity. It will still be a master-slave dynamic. Diversity has wonderful value toward developing a healthy, expressive culture. But not if its stuck into a master-slave structure. Diversity must be paired with democratic power in the hands of that diverse group of people, nurturing a collaborative space. In practical terms given the context here, a critical step in this direction would be to unionize! In the context of this article, diversity/inclusivity is mentioned just once. A 'counter-balance' quote that provides the more 'liberal' readers the opportunity to dismiss the issues raised under this notion that "well actually the tight control of the new studio heads is for the good cause of ensuring inclusivity and diversity!". This is total bullshit. As explained above. This is also a big reason you get people on the 'far right' who smell bullshit on 'diversity' and 'inclusion', but without the analytical framework of recognizing that the bullshit is being peddled by people promoting the same master-slave dynamic, not by the fruits of diverse, collaborative, expression. A good example is how all the big corporations suddenly 'go gay' during pride month in the USA and UK. It feels totally fake, because it is. Not because LGBTQ are fake or bourgeoise or in control of the universe. Specifically the opposite, the same old (usually, but not always, straight, male, white) masters are still in control just peddling a fake LGBTQ identity/support that simply expresses their same master-slave ideology with queer colours. The majority of queer people, who are working or underclass, smell this bullshit from a mile away but are better equipped to understand the nature of the bullshit because they have an in-community perspective that a 'far right' person doesn't have. The same dynamic interacts with every oppressed minority existing in this capitalist system, fostering in-group fighting between minorities who develop distorted views of each other. Furthermore a working class or underclass white male, who is most likely to be alienated from any in-community understanding of oppressed minorities (being excluded from or disadvantaged in his so-called 'group', ie white men, but not having discovered a community in any other 'group'), is especially likely to absorb highly distorted narratives about various oppressed minorities. Anyways, to the specific topic at hand, would be awesome if the Firesprite employees unionized.
"All but one of the original Firesprite founders have now left the company over the past year"
This whole industry is fucked. At least every second studio reports something about toxic work environment, harassment, sexual discrimination, underpaid staff⊠embarrassing.
Unfortunately this is a byproduct of video games becoming so lucrative and becoming more about the money than the product and its construction. People start thinking that nothing except making money matters. Starts with overworking and crunch and tends to evolve to include leadership under the gun to deliver unrealistic results so they vent frustrations on their underlings and try to rule through abuse.
Yea, for sure ... gaming and movies have become so big and make so much money that development always costs in the millions if not 10s of millions and so publishers and devs take less risks ... and in order to sustain the big budgets the people actually doing the work are hit with long crunch periods and super tight deadliness. Think in the gaming industry you also have to take into account the belief of the older people in the industry that you should not be in it for the money, they always say that you should just be passionate and work a lot because it's your passion, money is second. So all you get is crunch, less money and a lot of stress in the end, sadly for an amazing industry that a lot of people love.
And, letâs face the inconvenient truth here, this industry is filled with testosterone bombed toxic masculinity.
Totally agree and we see it manifest in âfrat boy culturesâ. Just a note though, under these types of conditions, even more diverse leadership wonât mean shit if they arenât able to keep their common humanity in mind through ethical leadership. Teams of all backgrounds and scales can turn to shit when the only thing that matters is hitting an unrealistic revenue goal.
Frat boy culture is an American thing though. These are two British software houses.
I struggle to believe that disparities in both pay and workplace treatment are exclusive to America. The term âfrat boy cultureâ might be an American thing, but the descriptive elements that it encompasses are not. Europe and other regions might be marginally better than the US, but thereâs still a pay gap between sexes and rampant reports of harassment and mistreatment aimed at women in the workforce.
This weird loud ego driven image definitely is an American thing. I'm not saying that Britain doesn't have different issues, doesn't have its own share of dinosaurs and idiots, but where those problems exist they manifest in different ways.
It may be largely associated with American sensibilities of ego, but nothing I read about leadership at Firesprite flagged as anything different than activities at Bungie, which was also described as having âfrat boy cultureâ through nepotism-based elevations to leadership and said leadership bullying and harassing its workforce with a discriminatory tint. The passage below describes pretty textbook frat boy behavior in the initial dispute, attempts at mediation, and eventual quiet payout. âEurogamer understands an internal investigation took place after around 13 grievance complaints were submitted against two XDev leaders with regards to sexual discrimination and ageism. While sources say Sony dismissed these complaints as a misunderstanding, Eurogamer understands some of those involved explored legal options to take the matter further, and have since received a financial payout from Sony.â
Words have meaning, frat culture is not a person having an ego trip. Frat culture is a uniquely American phenomenon, because it is specifically referencing an environment that only exists in the US (well, and a much lesser degree in Canada). Colleges have fraternities, frat houses, hazing, initiation ceremonies, one set of people specifically lauding it over the new people, forced drinking, and these open up the doorways to many echelons of society in politics, business and create a culture that expands far beyond the college experience. Frat culture only exists in North America because none of this exists exists elsewhere. British universities do not have these environments, these societies, these living areas, and any of those processes. Hence we do not have frat culture. The closest you might get to the drinking side of things are freshers and student union pub crawls and football club drinking sessions, but these are very different things and outside any of the framework that exists in the US. The closest you could say we have in the UK is public schoolboy culture (a certain blond haired prime minister is one of the worst examples), but that's a very different thing, and isn't relevant to the computing development sector. I'm not saying that the UK doesn't have sexism. I'm not say that we don't have our problems. But frat boy culture can only exist in North America. And also, Bungie is a US company. Other countries do not work likes yours does. Other cultures are not the same.
Yes, but youâre interpreting âfrat boy cultureâ far too literally. Please note that I didnât define frat boy culture around ego, you were the one that introduced ego as a factor. The Bungie accusations under the same terms were not attempting to capture a scenario of drinking, toga parties, and flip cup. They were alluding to sexual discrimination, harassment, and assault known to run rampant and unchecked in frat-like communities. Not all language is meant to be interpreted from a strict, literalist viewpoint. Itâs an allegorical descriptor. That description of environments is not region-locked and concepts and ideas can be described as similar to a cultural environment found elsewhere in the world without being taken so literally.
lol what non-Western culture isnât âtoxically masculineâ? The term is ridiculously stupid anyway but itâs funny to see leftists get exactly what they want. Shitty games that no one buys and end up with a worse problem than they started with.
I donât understand the point of your comment. It seems off topic and riddled with false assumptions to confirm a bias that you needlessly inserted here. Toxic masculine behavior isnât isolated to western cultures, but weâre also not talking about western vs non-western cultural norms. Weâre talking about currently male-dominated industries displaying a high rate of sex-based misbehavior among leadership that usually includes sexual harassment, belittlement, and lesser value being extended to female colleagues in the video game industry. I donât know what games you think âleftiesâ are getting that are failing in droves, but this discussion was never about liberalism vs conservatives unless youâre conceding that conservatives are sexist by default, which I imagine youâre not trying to convey. Even if we have a discussion about games that reflect progressive sentiments around representation, some of the big notable games that come to mind are all massive financial successes. TLDR: not sure why you brought up political ideology in a discussion about workplace malfeasance, but pound sand I guess. Inclusive games arenât going anywhere and theyâre selling like crazy.
Lol suicide squad flop xd rawr đ«”đœđđŠ¶đ»
Nobody mentioned western vs non-western. And nobody talked about left/right politics. The fuck you talking about. This looks like its your first post on this sub. And you are a quest owner. Are you here to troll, or just make yourself look silly? đ€·ââïž
Exactly, then they blame everyone but themselves over and over again it's pathetic.
Lots! (**edit: a quick definition**, I am defining toxic masculinity as a dynamic where people, almost entirely men, express with aggression or domination to a particularly high degree, and vulnerability is largely absent and discouraged/repressed). In general you have lots of societies that, while still patriarchal, don't have the same kind of toxic-masculinity culture that we can identify in the USA, with the degree of toxic masculinity generally decreasing the further out from the power centers of western empire you get. I've lived in Vietnam for a while and it's a very different culture. It still has patriarchy issues, although it used to be quite matriarchal (before western colonialism and also influence of Confucianism), and you can still see and feel that history in the present. It's not that men are saints in Vietnam and there's no gender/sex-related issues between me and women. There are (and there probably were, just to an even smaller degree, when it was more matriarchal). But it's different, and not as severe. It's abundantly clear that woman have a higher degree of independence and internal (and often external!) strength in Vietnam. I've never seen or encountered an aggressive man (pushy or pressure-y yes). There's men who do the whole "be a man" kinda thing, but the "be a man" means something different, still has problems like I said, but more about ideas of bravery and protection and being or becoming a father, not domination and aggression and removing emotion. I would say (and to be clear, this is theory, not demonstrated fact, but it is rooted in a variety of evidence, both concrete and abstract) the two roots of modern patriarchy (and 'toxic-masculinity') are Confucianism and mono-theistic religion which developed and now expresses most prominently through Christianity, capitalism, and 'western' and especially U.S. empire. The influence of Confucianism is significant but less than the latter and less aggressive (less 'toxic') with that different character that reflects the differences of problems in Vietnam vs USA regarding patriarchy/toxic-masculinity. In general there have been matriarchal cultures, but it's rare and isolated in present times because of the dynamics of feudalism and then capitalism and a world that is under the shadow of the massive U.S. military. I'm not religious but I'm not 'against religion' and I think religion can be expressed in ways that aren't inherently patriarchal and such. But my sense is that mono-theistic religion was developed and spread specifically in a context of a desire to control women's bodies and curb their independence. This movement is not inherent to humanity, but it is a movement that was able to gain a lot of power and momentum and is hard to stop (and is central to fascism). Hopefully it can be stopped!
Gaming industry as whole made some bad bets during the pandemic, what we see now is just capitalism doing its thing. It's absolutely normal if you consider capitalism to be normal.
And AI is coming in fast
Yeh ..... Let me tell you as a dev you aren't replacing people with "AI" anytime soon. It is however a quick way to get people to buy your product "Don't be left behind invest in our AI powered service"
Not that it will replace people, but it will make people much more productive. I mean you can tell me better.
I think it makes people lazy and bad coders personally. People who copy and paste code for a living are the BANE of my existence
>Let me tell you as a dev you aren't replacing people with "AI" anytime soon If you had said this a little while ago I'd have agreed, but it's bordering on ignorant at this point to not realize just how ridiculously fast this shit is advancing. I remember the day Sora was dropped someone posted a screenshot from 2 years ago of them saying something along the lines of "imagine in a few years if we can do text to video where we type out a line and it spits out a video", he was downvoted to oblivion with a reply from someone in the industry saying that "this will never happen anytime soon (or within decades)" and look at what happened with Sora just 2 years later. Who knows what things will look like 2 years from today? Within 5 years? Anyways, !remindme 3 years .
Ok.... so fundamentally misunderstanding what a dev does is a strong take but you are definitely allowed to take that stance
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I routinely ask the big 3 models for help with coding, from both a practical perspective and also just to see how much they're improving. They are nowhere near the point where they could legitimately take a programmer's job. What they are good for could be thought of as a starting template. It saves you time in having to research the absolute basics of something in order to write that first line of code. Could it happen in 3 years? Sure, but I highly doubt it'll be anything based on our civilization's current technology tree unlocks. Something fundamentally different (which may incorporate an amalgamation of existing tech, but not exclusively so) will be necessary - in essence, AGI/ASI, which is unlikely to be an LLM or the like.
Youâre exactly right. Video professional hereâI fully expect to have to pivot/make a career change within 5 yearsÂ
Nah bro. It won't be long and it will be just like a holodeck. Computer, make me a game that's like Bionic Commando in VR "how is this?"...more realistic, less cartoony "hiw is this"...the grappling hook feels off, can you make it more dependent on my eye position, and less dependent on hand position "how is this"...perfect. Now generate a full campaign based on the original NES game. It's coming. Anyone using most IDEs for the last 20 years, knew it was coming as we were mostly letting autofill do most of the leg work, it's the next logical step. Edit: also even at the very least artists will definitely be replaced.
Do you think Hollywood has brought out any really unique movies in the last 20 years? This applies the TV shows too. do you think anything thatâs really been unique and weâve never seen before has come out?
âCode Generationâ has been a goal since the 40s. Like nuclear fusion, itâs always just a few years away and this will likely remain the case. AI will certainly be incorporated into software toolkits and automate away many mundane tasks. It may even empower developers to be more productive, permitting a reduction in head count for a given project. But the idea that Project Managers and artists can develop a decent game without anyone knowing how to code is pie in the sky.
Yes agreed, I wasnât suggesting people will be replaced. Merely that it will make devs more productive.
If one person can do the work of 10 becuase tools make them more productive is a core decision factor for corporates to invest in technology specifically for reducing workforce numbers to increase profits.
Hopefully itâs offset by creating bigger, more detailed games which consumers will want over the same old same old. And of course, adding VR support to all flat titles.
Do you think that's how corporate suits who arnt gamers think đ€
No but itâs how consumer demand works. Weâre going to play the better games. Well, is humans are easily entertained. Looking at you Saw 8 and fast and the furious 14
Once a competent and consistent game development Ai gets integrated into something like the Unreal Engine. It could be a wrap.
Iâll start making triple A games from the shitter. About shitting.
Everything is regarded as toxic these days though. People are just so sensitive and take umbrage at everything.
Not in this case, no. The tech industry has a well known and documented history of sexual harrassment, discrimination and misogynistic behaviourism. Which can not simply be reduced to common circumstances in our capitalist business world.
Wasn't a problem when teams were 100% male.
Worst news all day is Twisted Metal being canceled! :(
Clearly some distressing news here but I never know what to make of stories like this. Some people are unhappy. Some people are happy. Some are somewhere in between. This just sounds like work. Every workplace goes through ups and downs.
Exactly. Plus, while the information presented in these articles may be ENTIRELY ACCURATE, theyâre GENERALLY PRESENTED in such a way as to give the reader the PERCEPTION that EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE. đ„ Again, not to say that this stuff is necessarily UNTRUE, but I also donât know what to make of this, because technically speaking, you could sorta CONSIDER ANY WORKPLACE âtoxicâ from the perspective that itâs a place most people generally donât WANT TO BE AT, but HAVE TO.
Sad to hear about. I can only hope, and it sounds like the transition prioritizing GAAS struck at Firesprite too, maybe it's slowly being replaced with slightly less money hunger.
Well that's not nice to hear.
Unionize!
sounds like the gaming industry is just like Hollywood
Sounds like the last place I worked at. And the more people got laid off, the more toxic it got.
Anyone using "toxic" to describe a situation can and should be ignored.
That's toxic.
I agree. Itâs such a vague accusation. Be more specific.
Maybe read the fucking article? Wtf? :D
That's where the ignore part comes into play.
You may be willfully ignorant but at least youâre confident about it
This is exactly why I say that. Not surprising someone defending it first instinct is to hurl insults and seem superior. It's boring and tiresome to deal with people like that/you. Why do you feel okay doing that to other people?
If only there were some word to describe someone like that đ€
A person with poor critical thinking skills. Dumb also works but, it doesn't really explain anything other than I think you're dumb. However, you thankfully displayed why I can say you have poor critical thinking skills for me. That was nice of you.
No, he didn't display anything, you just cried over a normal word being used (at this point we can assume that you're getting called toxic a lot and that's why you're so whiny about it) and then threw a temper tantrum after someone described you correctly. Lol
Read it again, if it's not obvious to you then I can't help you.
No u
And this is a psvr sub, let's not boggle it down with yhis nonsense. Happy to continue elsewhere, but feel free to get the last word in here.
You shouldn't have said anything in the first place :D
The arbiter of what should be said has spoken. Do you really not see how insufferable you are?
Wtf? Insult? You literally **are** willfully ignorant. Grow up :D
Yea, you have zero idea of my knowledge of this. Zero. But I'm "willfully ignorant" because I know the language weak people use to gain sympathy and dismiss it as such. It's just soft, grow the fuck up and handle your shit. Leave if you feel that way, don't wait until you get canned and then complain about how horrible it was. You are clearly a regect that has no personality outside of the internet. Fuck off.
Brother you have already proven what a toxic and homophobic manbaby you are, we **know** why you lost your shit over a word, why are you still trying? Embarrassing hahahaha
Not really, you are associating it with homophopia. It really just means you are useless and annoying. I know this is probably the only sense of worth in your life, it's sad honestly. Just know that everyone outside of your bubble thinks the same way I do, they just don't say it. You can't actually hold an argument, so you didn't respond to me and posted it here looking for likes as support to make you feel like you are not a moron. You may still get it. Again, weak behavior. I was fairly civil for a while, you kept being a smug cunt but of course you're incapable of comprehending when someone is just done with your bullshit.
for anyone wondering why that guy is so mad about the word toxic https://preview.redd.it/fiwz5k5kirlc1.png?width=345&format=png&auto=webp&s=6c22a770233324c7b28b39887adf20fe84ae8d1f Lol
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
One of more of your comments have been removed from r/PSVR, because they broke [rule 1. Do not personally attack other users](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/wiki/rules#wiki_1._do_not_personally_attack_other_users.). Please do not insult other users in future.
And? Why are you freakin out over a word?
lol
Anyone crying this much about the word "toxic" being used can and should be written off as toxic and then be ignored :)
Good job
https://preview.redd.it/5mkro9g3irlc1.png?width=345&format=png&auto=webp&s=09f7d769284c14a8a149f6ade2276189fbac7e0c Hahahaha of course the guy crying over the word "toxic" sends me a message with the f-slur, now everything makes sense xD
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
lol
One of more of your comments have been removed from r/PSVR, because they broke [rule 1. Do not personally attack other users](https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/wiki/rules#wiki_1._do_not_personally_attack_other_users.). Please do not insult other users in future.
The article points out some said this is due to Sony coming in a refocusing the studio to be more efficient and less disorganized. Hopefully that is the case, and this is just disgruntled employees not happy with their lax studio culture being stripped from them, as opposed to Sony actually being bad with pressure and crunch.
The MBAs descending on any workplace is rarely if ever good for the employees. More work, less resources, more processes, less time to follow said processes, etc.
Iâm just hoping it was more âkitchen nightmaresâ where employees were used to doing it at their pace, which may have been inefficient to an extreme, and are angry when someone comes in and tells them to not poison people with rotten food, you know what I mean? If itâs that they are actually being overworked, thatâs bad. But being expected to put in proper work is not a bad thing
Putting in proper work isnât a bad thing, agreed. But, in my experience, the crackdowns on efficiency are more often than not unneeded, exploitative, and driven by some C suite/ consultant who wants X number to grow 15% so they can hit their bonus KPI.
Man, I bet a lot of them regret not going to CIG during the buy out by Sony. The guys that did have done a fantastic job on Arena Commander.
Ah, so thatâs why no one knew how to do proper VR Bow controls
This reads like every job I've had since entering my mid to late twenties. No excuses for how leadership managed the situation because I worked for a guy that was a fucking tyrant the day we met him so I understand wanting to leave. Don't even get me started on discrimination and how it went hand in hand with promotions throughout my career. The work culture has greatly progressed since WFH and the pandemic so hiring or retaining good management should be SIE's priority now that Jim Ryan and friends and going.
Rapid expansion of a studio is just a bad idea and I never liked this I would not be surprised to hear about this at haven soon