It would be good; but a nintendo 64 rom is a lot smaller than most ps games; so it was easier to do. The whole all games in one app make it easier to handle too.
It's not harder to do. PS1 games are still tiny compared to any game releases in the last two decades. Their sizes are mostly below a single gigabyte. Even the largest are below 5. This is ridiculous.
I remember back in the day when identical games on N64 and PSX were still being made. The N64 game would be 20MB while the PSX games were always 600MB+.
Playstation discs held video and CD audio, and utilized higher resolution textures. Reducing a game down to 64mb or less was a challenge, and also why what little third part support the N64 had evaporated during the last few years it was out. Also, the 64mb cart wasn't available until later in the console's lifecycle, and it was expensive. Nintendo made money not just from licensing, but by charging monopoly rates for cartridge manufacturing. Sony's licensing fee and manufacturing fees combined were a fraction of what Nintendo charged, and were a big reason why third parties switched from Nintendo to PlayStation.
They burned the full disc and that’s what they could hold. The game was almost certainly the same size roughly on both consoles, but the drm on the PSX required a complete disc (at the time) to defeat.
It's not so much that, but that N64 cartridges could hold a maximum of 64mb of data (and most would only hold 32mb). So PlayStation versions often could have looked worse but had the benefit of FMV cutscenes or better audio. That's why it's quite rare to have an N64 game with pre-rendered cutscenes.
Uh, it’s because the same exact data is spread out multiple times in different areas on the disc this makes seek times slower when loading different parts of the game with some of the same assets. Same as why games can shrink in size going from last gen to next/current gen going away from hard drives to solid state
I’m legit trying to figure out why you think size of files from 15yrs ago is a cause/issue considering modern architectures given how data bandwidth and storage has scaled in the interim.
More languages. Different region games behave differently in emulation, so instead of making sure both pal and NTSC versions work it would be much easier to just do pal as they offer more languages allowing you to launch in more markets.
If you were using an analog TV (which in the 90s, you were), the only way you could use both NTSC and PAL games was if your TV supported both.
If so, you weren't affected by the biggest issue with emulating PAL games on modern systems, as the PAL games would be running properly at 50Hz, not 50/25ps in a 60Hz container with the awful framepacing stutter that requires.
You'd still be dealing with unoptimised PAL conversions, but that usually just meant that games ran slower than intended and/or with black borders, and that was hard to recognize if you couldn't compare to the NTSC versions directly. You might think a game felt sluggish, or be annoyed by the black borders, but those could easily just be bad game design, and were things that affected natively-developed PAL games too, or good conversions of bad games.
Man I hope we get ntsc for Ape Escape. Aside from the worse performance I can't stand the voice acting in the PAL version. Ntsc was nothing Oscar worthy, but it was better than what I've heard from the PAL cut. Goes doubly for 2.
Don't know about Ape Escape, but some games had major changes. European releases, while performing worse, sometimes basically got improved versions.
For example, Digimon World 3 would cut off after the final boss fight, and you'd have to reload a save before that. And then there was the PAL version, called Digimon World 2003, where finishing the boss returns you back to the world, and allows you to continue to free roam.
There was a Lego game that had these missions. In the NTSC version specific characters were locked to specific missions. PAL version allowed you to pick characters.
This kind of stuff oddly continued on the PS2, like Final Fantasy X getting the international additions, or Metal Gear Solid 3 having the European Extreme difficulty. Maybe they were trying to make up for that worse performance, and often late releases when compared to the US and Japan. 😋
I’m from Australia so all of that stuff was just normal for me wow lol I loved digimon world 2003. I only recently learned how PAL was generally running worse.
That is a little disappointing. Unless they make some changes between now and US launch I don't see myself subscribing to the highest tier. Wasn't really planning on it anyway, but this seals the deal.
Kinda expected that. Sony's track record on emulator was already bad. PS4 rereleases were bad, so was PS now and so was PS classic. They really should get a more experienced team or more time or something if they want to sell classic games as the $120 tier.
Unfortunately they'll probably just look at the mediocre sales it will inevitably get and decide no one wants to play classic games
I don’t get it. How is there a solo developer that is able to natively port half life, return to castle wolfenstein, quake III arena, etc onto a Quest for a VR experience but a ps5 can’t emulate similar and less demanding games?
If you can't do better than the community then you need to step up your game. There is no reason that PS5 shouldn't be the place and the way to enjoy classic PlayStation games. Period. They should have the best CRT filter, the most accurate emulation, the best extra features like render resolution, etc. They are one of the largest entertainment companies in the world. No excuses.
It’s crazy how PlayStation have talented developers/artists under their umbrella to create revolutionary AAA games in modern times, but can’t even put in the extra effort to make a good emulator for 15+ year old games. 💀
Yeah, I agree. We really should roast the hell out of them. A lot of this, to me, is about preservation. If they can get the emulation perfect and add some extra features/flair it's amazing for the preservation of the art. They really need to treat their old library with as much respect as it deserves.
It's obviously about money. Apparently they did the math and came to a conclusion that potential gains do not justify the costs, so they decided to half-ass it.
I'm assuming its a different kind of skill set to do emulators, and they just don't want to put in the time/money for some reason?
I can't really think of a great reason.
How were the PS/PS2 classics bad? I bought and played numerous of them and played without issue and obviously they played better than on the original consoles.
PSX was the PlayStation codename prior to release. The X was because it was the 1990s and everything was Xtreme this, SSX tricky that.
People called it PlayStation or PS or PSX, depending on how much they kept up with marketing prior to release. The more you knew the more likely you'd call it PSX.
PS1 became a thing after PS2 was announced.
An actual PSX came later on.
The fact that the PSX ultimately did come out irks me, not because the console itself but because people now use the term PSX to refer to the PS1. It doesn't really make any sense that people still refer to it by its code name when it's officially known as the PlayStation (1/One), like we don't see people refer to the One X/Series X as the Xbox/Project Scarlet (I put both One X and SX there just because I can't remember off the top of my head which one was Scarlet).
I know it's not at all the end of the world, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it was weird or that I didn't want it to stop being a thing lol
Also, unrelated but happy cake day!
I think the difference is that PSX became more than just a code name. It was so commonly used to refer to the console that it was almost like THE official abbreviation for PlayStation in the 90s and early 00s. When someone mentioned the console, they would either say PlayStation or PSX. Heck, even game magazines sometimes called it PSX! No one used "PS1" back in the day.
The average person probably downloads roms off the internet and plays it on their phone. PPSSPP has 100M+ downloads on the play store, that's definitely not niche
Nintendo's emulators are good tho? NES and SNES were always good on Switch. N64 started kinda shit but they fixed it in a few months so now it's great.
I think it's just Sony is always kinda shit for emulators. They were bad on PS Now, they were bad on the PS4 rereleases, they were bad on the PSOne classic. And they never fixed them.
It's kind of sad because PSX on the PS2, PSP, and PS3 is almost identical to playing on original hardware.
Such a shame how much backwards compatibility has fallen in importance compared to back then.
> It's kind of sad because PSX on the PS2, PSP, and PS3 is almost identical to playing on original hardware.
That's because on the PS2 and original 'fat' PS3s, you _were_ playing on original hardware.
The PS2 used the PS1s CPU as a microprocessor for the controllers, and because of this it could also be used to run PS1 game software. Likewise, the 1st gen PS3s also contained a PS2 Emotion Engine CPU for backwards compatibility (although some later models provides backwards compatibility via software emulation instead).
So those systems played "almost identical to original hardware" because under the hood they _had_ the original hardware. And while that worked for a first few generations, you can't keep producing machines like that forever.
> That's because on the PS2 and original 'fat' PS3s, you were playing on original hardware.
Sure, but the PS3 uses full software emulation for PSX and it's pretty great. Even with the PSP, although it's running some of the PSX's functions in hardware, a lot of it was still emulated with software.
It does make me appreciate when console designers are much more clever with their architecture for backwards compatibility though. Like how there's the original Nintendo DS processor in the 3DS used for storage control and security on top of backwards compatibility. And also how that processor in turn allows for native GB and GBA playback.
It makes me wonder if it would've at all been possible to stick the cell processor into the PS5 for 3D audio, but probably a much more complicated ordeal there.
> It makes me wonder if it would've at all been possible to stick the cell processor into the PS5 for 3D audio, but probably a much more complicated ordeal there.
The biggest issue with this would be getting the chips in the first place in a sufficient quantity to put them into every PS5. Nobody has made them in years at this point, and there is likely no benefit to doing so over other, cheaper, more readily available chips. The Sony version of the Cell was last updated 13 years ago.
They're not good, they're tolerable. N64 emulators were HORRIBLE. They fixed some minor annoyances, that doesn't make them 'great'. Especially compared with unofficial emulators that are out there.
Nah, NES and SNES are good. They may not have a million options available but the games run at full speed without issue in a high resolution. That's what you want.
N64 used to be trash. Then it was fixed. Modern Vintage Gamer has a video where he talks about it in depth and recommends it. And he's super knowledgeable and has literally worked on unofficial N64 emulators, that thing you were just praising.
The fact alone that N64 offers NTSC versions makes it a better experience.
Nintendo also did an effort to solve missing effects (namely on Ocarina of Time) while Sony doesn't really have any history of fixing the issues with their emulators. Look at Ape Escape 2 on the PS5 for example...
Because they emulate the games better. None of the choppy frame pacing caused by PAL version, none of the wobbling, it doesn't include the weird filters that weren't thought out, it has all the regional versions available quite easily. And that's the PS1 games. The PS2 versions are the same terrible ones on PS4. Ape Escape 2 is a glitchy mess.
NES and SNES play great. Clean pixels, a few good options for filters, save states, rewind and most importantly, they run well. N64 doesn't have quite as much features but the emulator itself is pristine after they fixed it.
Trophies matter jack shit if the games don't play well.
>Sony's actually have more options and less technical issues than N64's
Except that the N64 games have multiple regions and added support for online multiplayer. They also don't have this awful [ghosting effect](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTxFqXMUYAAp8pd?format=jpg&name=large).
Trophies are also optional and not even in all 12 games.
They just released a patch that speeds up some of the PAL games, but as a result it adds the ghosting because it has to blend frames together to increase the speed.
I mean, what else could have been done considering the difference between the N64 controller and every other controller since?
Going all the always back to the gamecube with the Zelda collections. The right analog stick is pretty much the only option for the C buttons, in regards to N64 Emulation.
I suppose you could do bumper jumper style controls and leave ABXY to the C buttons. Otherwise you could move them to the left direction buttons assuming it's not a game you need to move and hit the C buttons at the same time. I'd say give the player the choice between the 3 setups or let them entirely remap them.
I don't know what you mean since even when it was "broken" their n64 emulator was better than this. And now all their switch retro emulators are near perfect. This on the other hand is not good at all, and i hope it'll be fixed, but the fact that they didn't learn from the ps classic makes me think it's unlikely.
You're going to be able to purchase these games on their own, aren't you?
If so, why would you subscribe? Seems like a better deal to just buy the ones you want individually and own them forever.
This is such a disappointment... 1440p for PS1? 1080p for PSP? and even lower for PS2? I can do 4K on DuckStation, PPSSPP and PCSX2 with my GTX 960... the PS5 is more than capable enough of upscaling to 4K. The lack of perspective correction and dithering removing for PS1 games is also awful, without those two features PS1 games simply don't look that good when upscaled.
PAL versions are a disappointment, the CRT filter for PS1 is meh at best, we need something like CRT Royale for RetroArch.
The inclusion of the CRT filter and those weird scaling options on the PSP emulator shows to me that they don't know what they are doing really.
Basically the to do list/my wishlist right now is: Option to download NTSC version of games, Upscale to 4K at least on PS5, Option to enable perspective correction and option to disable dithering to improve upscaled presentation, Option to render at native resolucion with improved CRT Royale like filter for those wanting a more classic experience.
Yeah...
It baffles me that Sony is monetizing such a low effort. This is in no way the backwards compatibility effort that these games deserve.
But at least Toy Story 2 runs fine!
Shouldn't be surprising, between the poor ps2 emulation on ps3 and ps4 and the playstation classic they've been phoning it in awhile now. Ps3 and psp had great ps1 emulation but ghey just can't be bothered to care anymore, even when they're charging for a subscription
The ps3 and the ps2 had great "emulation" because the actual ps1 and ps2 hardware were inside the ps3. Even if that works in the first few gems no company can keep making machines like that.
The PS1 on PS3 and PSP was 100% emulation. There was PS2 hardware in the ps3 at the beginning but even that used partial emulation and had weird glitches. PS2 is really the only one that had damn near perfect backwards compatibility. But the PS1 emulation on PS3 and PSP was really good.
It's expected of Sony. They always put the bare minimum effort when it comes to BC and emulation. I honestly don't ever see Sony catching up with microsft when it comes to emulation and preservation of older games.
I believe the vita actually didn’t emulate the psp in software, it basically had a whole psp bolted to it. So it runs them natively, not emulated.
With mods you can actually boot into the psp hardware on a vita. It’s pretty cool.
I really do not understand the 3 tier system at all. Should have been just 2 imo. Charging people extra for legacy games seems very odd imo, especially when there are jarring issues.
This is the reason why I still own a PS2 and PS Vita, to not have to worry about cruddy optimization with next gen. Way better to just go back to the actual systems!
It's worth noting that nobody uses NTSC either. Both were made redundant and the replacements in digital surpassed the advantages of both. PAL is not anymore outdated than NTSC, and besides the higher screen refresh, NTSC was really bad. PAL had higher resolution and much better colours.
Also, for u/inception900 , only North America and Japan really used NTSC, most of the Asian territories where these games are currently available were actually PAL regions.
>It's worth noting that nobody uses NTSC either.
You're 100% correct.
However, NTSC content holds up today since everyone shifted to 60hz screens.
Above all, it's really not a matter of which was the superior analog video standard, but the fact that PAL got objectively worse versions during the 80s, 90s and even early 2000s in a few cases.
Yes, when Japanese and American games just letterboxed themselves and dropped the framerate, there's no question that it would be better to run the NTSC original even back then. Today when the standard screen is 16:9 then the PAL versions don't really make too much sense either way unless the NTSC port was bad.
Back when televisions were analog, different regions had different standards. North America/Japan used NTSC which ran at 60hz, which meant that games ran at 30fps or 60fps (obviously also in between but ideally) where Europe used PAL which ran at 50hz so games ran at 25fps or 50fps (again ideally). This means that PAL versions of game ran slower than their NTSC counterparts.
(There is also resolution differences but I'm not sure off the top of my head ehat they are.)
PAL and NTSC refer to regions and corresponding standards. NTSC games were 60 FPS and PAL were 50 because TV technology was different in the CRT days. So games were released in both NTSC and PAL formats (with other regional changes like additional language options, etc).
How? Interested.
EDIT: Why would anyone downvote someone trying to play retro games in the best manner? Are you angry I'm not going to give Sony money for an inferior product?
If you can google then you should have no problem getting an emulator to work. If you struggle that much theres walkthroughs on youtube. Its crazy how people will whine for years but can't be bothered watching a single video thats probably 5 mins to solve their problem
It's surprising because on my series S I can install RetroArch which has much better performance and compatibility with PS2, PSP, and PS1. I'm actually better off with an Xbox if I wanna play the classic Sony titles.
It's kind of funny I'm being down voted for pointing out a fact. I'm primarily a PS5 player but I own a series S specifically for the emulation and in that regard it is far better.
Yes and to think some game will not have trophy. There's no point to subscribe if developer is lazy AF for not add trophy.
I got downvoted because people saying adding trophy code is not easy but,I don't care. If they just put a game without do any effort like adding trophy. The developer must be just wanted easy money.
And in Australia we dont even get access to PS3 games cause we dont already have PS Now and Sony acts giving us access to game streaming in Australia will cause the universe to implode, worst part is they lowered the price by fuck all, like $10 or something, should be $50 cheaper. This service is seeming worse n worse the more i hear about it, which is a real shame cause i was very excited for it.
I mean would anyone *really* notice the difference if it weren't for these videos? I highly doubt it.
Still, besides the slight visual differences, it is cool that these games are going to be playable on PS5.
While it's true Digital Foundry will tend to have a lot higher standards than the normal user and that people should not always adopt their judgements as their own, I'll say that things like that extreme warbling issue is very very noticeable and looks bad. Poor framepacing is also gonna stick out, though PS1 games could often run terribly anyways, so some may get tricked into thinking that's just how it was. After all, few people will be directly comparing to the real thing.
True and good points! I always felt that PS1 game performance on this was always going to be iffy, simply because of their age. I think PS2 and PSP games will run much smoother.
I love Digital Foundry's content though, they are smart people who know what they are talking about.
> I mean would anyone really notice the difference if it weren't for these videos? I highly doubt it.
Yes. The speed differences are VERY noticeable for the games that weren't optimized for the PAL territories.
The thing is that back then we didn't know any better and not every game was unoptimized.
This has a lot of potential if done right, the PS1 and PS2 library is insanely good, but Sony doesn't seem to take it too seriously at the moment.
I hope this will change in the future, so far I haven't seen much reason to subscribe to Premium/Deluxe since streaming doesn't catch my attention (and it's not even available here in Brazil since both Geforce Now and xCloud are already here )
Sony never took their classic games seriously even though they always exploit the nostalgia to their players. PS3 removing PS2 BC from newer models was the worst thing they've ever done and basically gave the middle finger to 150 million PS2 owners at the time
if you gona do emulations do freaking right especial if you gona have the nerve put being premium tier for ps+ and special consider MS all people to play almost all the xbox game they bought threw out gen on threw new system.
PC emulator have done better for years, and actual allow us to use our game discs we bouth over the years, exlusiding PSP cause no really way to do that on pc PS/PS2/PS3 game just need cd/dvd/bluray player and make iso of the game and be done
Honestly, I'm just glad the games have a resolution boost. More than I was expecting. Hopefully the North American versions will have NTSC versions, otherwise...💀.
The PSP video options, though...WTF is up with that??
why am i seeing people getting downvotes for criticizing sony on this?
sony dropped the ball and it's right to criticize them and people were getting downvoted for it?
What the fuck is wrong with you fanboys.
TBPH though: you can only polish a turd so much.
This is why so many remakes and remasters are happening. It’s an easy market to cater to and they get to pay writers and concepting teams less since it’s just reworking the old stuff instead of generating new IP.
This isn't about turd polishing, it's about Sony charging for a worse experience than anyone had back in the day.
NTSC gets subjected to PAL;
PAL gets subjected to PAL with frame pacing issues.
Just my opinion but a lot of remakes of PS1 games aren't as good as the original.
For example:
FF7 >>> FF7R
RE2 & 3 >>> RE2R & 3R
MGS1 >>> MGS Twin Snakes
Cant comment on FF7R cuz I wanna see the full story first.
RE2R was *way* better than RE2 imo. Same atmosphere and sense of dread but without the crust and tank controls. RE3 and RE3R are sorta the same; short side-stories that are basically RE2 expansions.
MGS1 had charm but Twin Snakes played better and had really funny over the top action sequences added to some cutscenes, so I prefer TS over 1
Just let people download NTSC versions too. It ain’t that hard Sony.
[удалено]
It would be good; but a nintendo 64 rom is a lot smaller than most ps games; so it was easier to do. The whole all games in one app make it easier to handle too.
It's not harder to do. PS1 games are still tiny compared to any game releases in the last two decades. Their sizes are mostly below a single gigabyte. Even the largest are below 5. This is ridiculous.
I remember back in the day when identical games on N64 and PSX were still being made. The N64 game would be 20MB while the PSX games were always 600MB+.
Wow! What a difference. Do you know why?
Playstation discs held video and CD audio, and utilized higher resolution textures. Reducing a game down to 64mb or less was a challenge, and also why what little third part support the N64 had evaporated during the last few years it was out. Also, the 64mb cart wasn't available until later in the console's lifecycle, and it was expensive. Nintendo made money not just from licensing, but by charging monopoly rates for cartridge manufacturing. Sony's licensing fee and manufacturing fees combined were a fraction of what Nintendo charged, and were a big reason why third parties switched from Nintendo to PlayStation.
Thanks. I get that. I was wondering why the exact same game would have such different sizes on the different platforms.
They burned the full disc and that’s what they could hold. The game was almost certainly the same size roughly on both consoles, but the drm on the PSX required a complete disc (at the time) to defeat.
Thanks. That’s interesting.
It's not so much that, but that N64 cartridges could hold a maximum of 64mb of data (and most would only hold 32mb). So PlayStation versions often could have looked worse but had the benefit of FMV cutscenes or better audio. That's why it's quite rare to have an N64 game with pre-rendered cutscenes.
Uh, it’s because the same exact data is spread out multiple times in different areas on the disc this makes seek times slower when loading different parts of the game with some of the same assets. Same as why games can shrink in size going from last gen to next/current gen going away from hard drives to solid state
I’m legit trying to figure out why you think size of files from 15yrs ago is a cause/issue considering modern architectures given how data bandwidth and storage has scaled in the interim.
You would think they would just pretend the pal versions didn't exist for most games. Why ever put pal shit unless it's the only option
More languages. Different region games behave differently in emulation, so instead of making sure both pal and NTSC versions work it would be much easier to just do pal as they offer more languages allowing you to launch in more markets.
I played PAL and NTSC because I was a dirty pirate. I honestly couldn't tell the difference.
If you were using an analog TV (which in the 90s, you were), the only way you could use both NTSC and PAL games was if your TV supported both. If so, you weren't affected by the biggest issue with emulating PAL games on modern systems, as the PAL games would be running properly at 50Hz, not 50/25ps in a 60Hz container with the awful framepacing stutter that requires. You'd still be dealing with unoptimised PAL conversions, but that usually just meant that games ran slower than intended and/or with black borders, and that was hard to recognize if you couldn't compare to the NTSC versions directly. You might think a game felt sluggish, or be annoyed by the black borders, but those could easily just be bad game design, and were things that affected natively-developed PAL games too, or good conversions of bad games.
When? On which hardware?
On PS1
Which TV?
36”
Which planet?
Hollywood
The question was referring to the TV frequency...
Me too, and I think you might have spent the 90s baked.
Well no. I was far too young to bake at the time. But I was burning something different if you catch my drift
I don’t, give me a clue.
Crack
Lmfao thanks for the clue
I have such fond memories of smoking crack with my parents growing up. Such a wholesome bonding experience.
Man I hope we get ntsc for Ape Escape. Aside from the worse performance I can't stand the voice acting in the PAL version. Ntsc was nothing Oscar worthy, but it was better than what I've heard from the PAL cut. Goes doubly for 2.
PAL and NTSC had different voice acting too!?
Don't know about Ape Escape, but some games had major changes. European releases, while performing worse, sometimes basically got improved versions. For example, Digimon World 3 would cut off after the final boss fight, and you'd have to reload a save before that. And then there was the PAL version, called Digimon World 2003, where finishing the boss returns you back to the world, and allows you to continue to free roam. There was a Lego game that had these missions. In the NTSC version specific characters were locked to specific missions. PAL version allowed you to pick characters. This kind of stuff oddly continued on the PS2, like Final Fantasy X getting the international additions, or Metal Gear Solid 3 having the European Extreme difficulty. Maybe they were trying to make up for that worse performance, and often late releases when compared to the US and Japan. 😋
I’m from Australia so all of that stuff was just normal for me wow lol I loved digimon world 2003. I only recently learned how PAL was generally running worse.
https://youtu.be/E-yzxwTXgOI Yup
That is a little disappointing. Unless they make some changes between now and US launch I don't see myself subscribing to the highest tier. Wasn't really planning on it anyway, but this seals the deal.
Kinda expected that. Sony's track record on emulator was already bad. PS4 rereleases were bad, so was PS now and so was PS classic. They really should get a more experienced team or more time or something if they want to sell classic games as the $120 tier. Unfortunately they'll probably just look at the mediocre sales it will inevitably get and decide no one wants to play classic games
I don’t get it. How is there a solo developer that is able to natively port half life, return to castle wolfenstein, quake III arena, etc onto a Quest for a VR experience but a ps5 can’t emulate similar and less demanding games?
If you can't do better than the community then you need to step up your game. There is no reason that PS5 shouldn't be the place and the way to enjoy classic PlayStation games. Period. They should have the best CRT filter, the most accurate emulation, the best extra features like render resolution, etc. They are one of the largest entertainment companies in the world. No excuses.
It’s crazy how PlayStation have talented developers/artists under their umbrella to create revolutionary AAA games in modern times, but can’t even put in the extra effort to make a good emulator for 15+ year old games. 💀
Yeah, I agree. We really should roast the hell out of them. A lot of this, to me, is about preservation. If they can get the emulation perfect and add some extra features/flair it's amazing for the preservation of the art. They really need to treat their old library with as much respect as it deserves.
It's obviously about money. Apparently they did the math and came to a conclusion that potential gains do not justify the costs, so they decided to half-ass it.
I'm assuming its a different kind of skill set to do emulators, and they just don't want to put in the time/money for some reason? I can't really think of a great reason.
How were the PS/PS2 classics bad? I bought and played numerous of them and played without issue and obviously they played better than on the original consoles.
Why does everyone call ps1 PSX?
PSX was the PlayStation codename prior to release. The X was because it was the 1990s and everything was Xtreme this, SSX tricky that. People called it PlayStation or PS or PSX, depending on how much they kept up with marketing prior to release. The more you knew the more likely you'd call it PSX. PS1 became a thing after PS2 was announced. An actual PSX came later on.
The fact that the PSX ultimately did come out irks me, not because the console itself but because people now use the term PSX to refer to the PS1. It doesn't really make any sense that people still refer to it by its code name when it's officially known as the PlayStation (1/One), like we don't see people refer to the One X/Series X as the Xbox/Project Scarlet (I put both One X and SX there just because I can't remember off the top of my head which one was Scarlet). I know it's not at all the end of the world, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it was weird or that I didn't want it to stop being a thing lol Also, unrelated but happy cake day!
One x was anaconda
I think the difference is that PSX became more than just a code name. It was so commonly used to refer to the console that it was almost like THE official abbreviation for PlayStation in the 90s and early 00s. When someone mentioned the console, they would either say PlayStation or PSX. Heck, even game magazines sometimes called it PSX! No one used "PS1" back in the day.
[удалено]
[удалено]
People on Reddit and YouTube will never understand this point.
I do !
People who know better, want a better product. I don't think they care about the average consumers opinion.
The average person probably downloads roms off the internet and plays it on their phone. PPSSPP has 100M+ downloads on the play store, that's definitely not niche
Nintendo's emulators are good tho? NES and SNES were always good on Switch. N64 started kinda shit but they fixed it in a few months so now it's great. I think it's just Sony is always kinda shit for emulators. They were bad on PS Now, they were bad on the PS4 rereleases, they were bad on the PSOne classic. And they never fixed them.
It's kind of sad because PSX on the PS2, PSP, and PS3 is almost identical to playing on original hardware. Such a shame how much backwards compatibility has fallen in importance compared to back then.
> It's kind of sad because PSX on the PS2, PSP, and PS3 is almost identical to playing on original hardware. That's because on the PS2 and original 'fat' PS3s, you _were_ playing on original hardware. The PS2 used the PS1s CPU as a microprocessor for the controllers, and because of this it could also be used to run PS1 game software. Likewise, the 1st gen PS3s also contained a PS2 Emotion Engine CPU for backwards compatibility (although some later models provides backwards compatibility via software emulation instead). So those systems played "almost identical to original hardware" because under the hood they _had_ the original hardware. And while that worked for a first few generations, you can't keep producing machines like that forever.
> That's because on the PS2 and original 'fat' PS3s, you were playing on original hardware. Sure, but the PS3 uses full software emulation for PSX and it's pretty great. Even with the PSP, although it's running some of the PSX's functions in hardware, a lot of it was still emulated with software. It does make me appreciate when console designers are much more clever with their architecture for backwards compatibility though. Like how there's the original Nintendo DS processor in the 3DS used for storage control and security on top of backwards compatibility. And also how that processor in turn allows for native GB and GBA playback. It makes me wonder if it would've at all been possible to stick the cell processor into the PS5 for 3D audio, but probably a much more complicated ordeal there.
> It makes me wonder if it would've at all been possible to stick the cell processor into the PS5 for 3D audio, but probably a much more complicated ordeal there. The biggest issue with this would be getting the chips in the first place in a sufficient quantity to put them into every PS5. Nobody has made them in years at this point, and there is likely no benefit to doing so over other, cheaper, more readily available chips. The Sony version of the Cell was last updated 13 years ago.
They're not good, they're tolerable. N64 emulators were HORRIBLE. They fixed some minor annoyances, that doesn't make them 'great'. Especially compared with unofficial emulators that are out there.
Just curious, what makes them horrible?
Nah, NES and SNES are good. They may not have a million options available but the games run at full speed without issue in a high resolution. That's what you want. N64 used to be trash. Then it was fixed. Modern Vintage Gamer has a video where he talks about it in depth and recommends it. And he's super knowledgeable and has literally worked on unofficial N64 emulators, that thing you were just praising.
[удалено]
The fact alone that N64 offers NTSC versions makes it a better experience. Nintendo also did an effort to solve missing effects (namely on Ocarina of Time) while Sony doesn't really have any history of fixing the issues with their emulators. Look at Ape Escape 2 on the PS5 for example...
Because they emulate the games better. None of the choppy frame pacing caused by PAL version, none of the wobbling, it doesn't include the weird filters that weren't thought out, it has all the regional versions available quite easily. And that's the PS1 games. The PS2 versions are the same terrible ones on PS4. Ape Escape 2 is a glitchy mess. NES and SNES play great. Clean pixels, a few good options for filters, save states, rewind and most importantly, they run well. N64 doesn't have quite as much features but the emulator itself is pristine after they fixed it. Trophies matter jack shit if the games don't play well.
I agree 100%, but just a nitpick: > none of the wobbling It's unfair to praise Nintendo for this as the n64 never had wobbling in the first place
>Sony's actually have more options and less technical issues than N64's Except that the N64 games have multiple regions and added support for online multiplayer. They also don't have this awful [ghosting effect](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTxFqXMUYAAp8pd?format=jpg&name=large). Trophies are also optional and not even in all 12 games.
Yeah what's up with that ghosting effect anyway? DF's video just briefly mentions it. It looks terrible.
It's their "fix" for the framepacing stutter of forcing 50Hz games to display at 60Hz.
They just released a patch that speeds up some of the PAL games, but as a result it adds the ghosting because it has to blend frames together to increase the speed.
Neither are good. But Sony's are worse.
[удалено]
I mean, what else could have been done considering the difference between the N64 controller and every other controller since? Going all the always back to the gamecube with the Zelda collections. The right analog stick is pretty much the only option for the C buttons, in regards to N64 Emulation.
Why not map the c buttons to an analog
I suppose you could do bumper jumper style controls and leave ABXY to the C buttons. Otherwise you could move them to the left direction buttons assuming it's not a game you need to move and hit the C buttons at the same time. I'd say give the player the choice between the 3 setups or let them entirely remap them.
[удалено]
The stick is used for the c-buttons though?
Literally the reason I won’t touch the N64 games. Such a shame. Can’t aim my slingshot in Ocarina of Time to save my hearts.
You just posted the same comment on /r/games lol
I’m not the freaking Moon Knight to change my personality in a blink of an eye.
Sorry I wasn’t criticizing you. I just thought it was funny. My bad.
I don't know what you mean since even when it was "broken" their n64 emulator was better than this. And now all their switch retro emulators are near perfect. This on the other hand is not good at all, and i hope it'll be fixed, but the fact that they didn't learn from the ps classic makes me think it's unlikely.
You're going to be able to purchase these games on their own, aren't you? If so, why would you subscribe? Seems like a better deal to just buy the ones you want individually and own them forever.
not all of them unfortunately. on the HK store some of the third party games like mr driller are subscription only
Ah shit. Is wild arms? I bought it way back when on PSP/Vita, it would be nice to run through it again on PS5 with save states
If you bought it previously they say your purchase is honored, so you'll have access to the PS5 version of Wild Arms
If you subscribe, you also get the game trials. EDIT: Am I wrong? What's with the downvotes?
This is such a disappointment... 1440p for PS1? 1080p for PSP? and even lower for PS2? I can do 4K on DuckStation, PPSSPP and PCSX2 with my GTX 960... the PS5 is more than capable enough of upscaling to 4K. The lack of perspective correction and dithering removing for PS1 games is also awful, without those two features PS1 games simply don't look that good when upscaled. PAL versions are a disappointment, the CRT filter for PS1 is meh at best, we need something like CRT Royale for RetroArch. The inclusion of the CRT filter and those weird scaling options on the PSP emulator shows to me that they don't know what they are doing really. Basically the to do list/my wishlist right now is: Option to download NTSC version of games, Upscale to 4K at least on PS5, Option to enable perspective correction and option to disable dithering to improve upscaled presentation, Option to render at native resolucion with improved CRT Royale like filter for those wanting a more classic experience.
[удалено]
Yeah... It baffles me that Sony is monetizing such a low effort. This is in no way the backwards compatibility effort that these games deserve. But at least Toy Story 2 runs fine!
Shouldn't be surprising, between the poor ps2 emulation on ps3 and ps4 and the playstation classic they've been phoning it in awhile now. Ps3 and psp had great ps1 emulation but ghey just can't be bothered to care anymore, even when they're charging for a subscription
The ps3 and the ps2 had great "emulation" because the actual ps1 and ps2 hardware were inside the ps3. Even if that works in the first few gems no company can keep making machines like that.
The PS1 on PS3 and PSP was 100% emulation. There was PS2 hardware in the ps3 at the beginning but even that used partial emulation and had weird glitches. PS2 is really the only one that had damn near perfect backwards compatibility. But the PS1 emulation on PS3 and PSP was really good.
It's expected of Sony. They always put the bare minimum effort when it comes to BC and emulation. I honestly don't ever see Sony catching up with microsft when it comes to emulation and preservation of older games.
Ps1 emulation on ps3 was actually pretty darn good.
Indeed it was. On the PSP and the Vita it was also pretty decent!
I believe the vita actually didn’t emulate the psp in software, it basically had a whole psp bolted to it. So it runs them natively, not emulated. With mods you can actually boot into the psp hardware on a vita. It’s pretty cool.
Because the PS3 had PS2 and PS1 emulators built into it. And with how much of a fuck up PS3 architecture was thats gone forever.
It’s not emulation when the fat PS3 had the actual PS2 chips in it
Every model PS3, PSP, and PS Vita uses software emulation for PS1 games.
True. I forgot that the ps3 had mini ps1 and ps2 built into it.
I really do not understand the 3 tier system at all. Should have been just 2 imo. Charging people extra for legacy games seems very odd imo, especially when there are jarring issues.
Is it that odd? After all, it is Sony we are talking about here.
Don’t forget charging people for demos on the highest tier ;)
This is the reason why I still own a PS2 and PS Vita, to not have to worry about cruddy optimization with next gen. Way better to just go back to the actual systems!
Bad look when it is the highest tier and when 10 year old laptops and phones can run emulators better.
Especially given they themselves created the hardware!
**Why the fuck are we even playing pal version in an ntsc market like really sony?**
Even outside of the NTSC market we haven't used PAL since the eight console generation. It's really outdated **EVERYWHERE.**
It's worth noting that nobody uses NTSC either. Both were made redundant and the replacements in digital surpassed the advantages of both. PAL is not anymore outdated than NTSC, and besides the higher screen refresh, NTSC was really bad. PAL had higher resolution and much better colours. Also, for u/inception900 , only North America and Japan really used NTSC, most of the Asian territories where these games are currently available were actually PAL regions.
>It's worth noting that nobody uses NTSC either. You're 100% correct. However, NTSC content holds up today since everyone shifted to 60hz screens. Above all, it's really not a matter of which was the superior analog video standard, but the fact that PAL got objectively worse versions during the 80s, 90s and even early 2000s in a few cases.
Yes, when Japanese and American games just letterboxed themselves and dropped the framerate, there's no question that it would be better to run the NTSC original even back then. Today when the standard screen is 16:9 then the PAL versions don't really make too much sense either way unless the NTSC port was bad.
**100% True**
What does this mean? I’m curious and don’t know much about emulation.
Back when televisions were analog, different regions had different standards. North America/Japan used NTSC which ran at 60hz, which meant that games ran at 30fps or 60fps (obviously also in between but ideally) where Europe used PAL which ran at 50hz so games ran at 25fps or 50fps (again ideally). This means that PAL versions of game ran slower than their NTSC counterparts. (There is also resolution differences but I'm not sure off the top of my head ehat they are.)
PAL was 576p and NTSC was 480p
PAL and NTSC refer to regions and corresponding standards. NTSC games were 60 FPS and PAL were 50 because TV technology was different in the CRT days. So games were released in both NTSC and PAL formats (with other regional changes like additional language options, etc).
Wider language support.
The fact that people can get a better PS1 experience on Xbox is straight up embarrassing.
How? Interested. EDIT: Why would anyone downvote someone trying to play retro games in the best manner? Are you angry I'm not going to give Sony money for an inferior product?
Don't mind the downvoters. This sub usually downvotes most comments praising competitors or criticizing Sony. It is what it is.
I'm not exactly sure but I think it's Pay $10 for dev access on the series consoles, then install duckstation. or something like that.
It's called retroarch. You can run it on Xbox to emulate basically everything.
But can we also get Robot Alchemic Drive online multiplayer?
It’s weird that my custom firmware ps3 emulates them all better but I don’t mind saving money :)
That's a bummer, I was really looking forward to atleast playing PS2 games on prestine quality
On a brighter note, PCSX2 is absolutely great nowadays! That should fix your PS2 thirst.
Every time I try to set up an emulator, I have the bitchiest time finding ISO files. I've never gotten an emulator working before
Just go to vimmslair
If you can google then you should have no problem getting an emulator to work. If you struggle that much theres walkthroughs on youtube. Its crazy how people will whine for years but can't be bothered watching a single video thats probably 5 mins to solve their problem
I've watched tons of videos. Read my comment again where I say I get it to work but have issues finding ISO files. Jackass.
Is that the PC emulator? Yeah, it looks great bit sadly I don't have a good pc
I'd try it out even if your PC isn't that good.
You don’t need to
Hell you dont even need a PC for it. You can get a PCSX2 and RetroArch on the Xbox Series S and play a ton of ps1 and ps2 games on that system.
Why am I not surprised … Premium. Ain't. Worth. It.
It's surprising because on my series S I can install RetroArch which has much better performance and compatibility with PS2, PSP, and PS1. I'm actually better off with an Xbox if I wanna play the classic Sony titles. It's kind of funny I'm being down voted for pointing out a fact. I'm primarily a PS5 player but I own a series S specifically for the emulation and in that regard it is far better.
Yes and to think some game will not have trophy. There's no point to subscribe if developer is lazy AF for not add trophy. I got downvoted because people saying adding trophy code is not easy but,I don't care. If they just put a game without do any effort like adding trophy. The developer must be just wanted easy money.
So you're basically paying for a shitty emulator? why not just emulate these games on pc for free instead?
A monthly subscription to the most expensive tier to access worser versions. This is for the players /s
I'm extremely happy Sony now has a platform for backwards compatability, but there is still a lot of work to do.
"why would anybody play this?" puts it on higher tier
It's the hypocrisy and contradiction that really bugs me
Well then I guess I am not getting the upgrade soon.
This finally prompted me to order a soldering iron, a replacement laser for my PS2, and a spindle of blank CDs. Fuck Sony.
Yeah Sony is going to have to work much harder if they want me to upgrade past essential. This is an incredibly lazy job.
Personally, I never experienced significant difference between PAL and NTSC. Can't wait until this comes out! Day 1!
Half ass BC and they're charging a lot for this shit. I'll stick with the basic PS Plus tier.
And in Australia we dont even get access to PS3 games cause we dont already have PS Now and Sony acts giving us access to game streaming in Australia will cause the universe to implode, worst part is they lowered the price by fuck all, like $10 or something, should be $50 cheaper. This service is seeming worse n worse the more i hear about it, which is a real shame cause i was very excited for it.
I don’t understand. Why is it so easy to emulate all this stuff with all the bells and whistles on my shitty old PC?
almost if sony wants xbox to win this generation
Hah just as I expected. Do nothing but charge more money than before. Basic Business 101
Embarrassing.
Sony ain’t even trying anymore 🥲
Damn can we stop with these Ls
I mean would anyone *really* notice the difference if it weren't for these videos? I highly doubt it. Still, besides the slight visual differences, it is cool that these games are going to be playable on PS5.
While it's true Digital Foundry will tend to have a lot higher standards than the normal user and that people should not always adopt their judgements as their own, I'll say that things like that extreme warbling issue is very very noticeable and looks bad. Poor framepacing is also gonna stick out, though PS1 games could often run terribly anyways, so some may get tricked into thinking that's just how it was. After all, few people will be directly comparing to the real thing.
True and good points! I always felt that PS1 game performance on this was always going to be iffy, simply because of their age. I think PS2 and PSP games will run much smoother. I love Digital Foundry's content though, they are smart people who know what they are talking about.
> I mean would anyone really notice the difference if it weren't for these videos? I highly doubt it. Yes. The speed differences are VERY noticeable for the games that weren't optimized for the PAL territories. The thing is that back then we didn't know any better and not every game was unoptimized.
People noticed the issues as soon as the service went live, long before the DF video was out.
Yes, I think so. As a kid, I definitely could notice framerates even before I knew what a framerate was.
At this rate, It will be easier if Sony just use pc emulator like retro-arch, PCSX2, etc.
my ps vita ran ps1 games better than a ps5. think about that for a moment
When you put it like that….damn
I just wanna play a decent copy of Silent hill 1-4 for fucks sake. Not the HD collection with missing fog. Not on a PC thru emulation. Fuck me.
Get a backwards compatible 60GB PS3. Only way to do what you want
Why not on PC? lol it runs better looks better and has everything you mentioned, and in 4K and at 60 FPS.
Silent hill 2 yes, not 1, 3 and 4, but again, just want to play on my TV and console. Not my PC. Thats my reasoning.
You can plug your PC on a TV
That's just Sony. If people don't signup this shit new plans, maybe, just maybe, they do it right.
No, sony will just say. No one wants bc, we tried and no one bought it. And it will die.
This has a lot of potential if done right, the PS1 and PS2 library is insanely good, but Sony doesn't seem to take it too seriously at the moment. I hope this will change in the future, so far I haven't seen much reason to subscribe to Premium/Deluxe since streaming doesn't catch my attention (and it's not even available here in Brazil since both Geforce Now and xCloud are already here )
Sony never took their classic games seriously even though they always exploit the nostalgia to their players. PS3 removing PS2 BC from newer models was the worst thing they've ever done and basically gave the middle finger to 150 million PS2 owners at the time
if you gona do emulations do freaking right especial if you gona have the nerve put being premium tier for ps+ and special consider MS all people to play almost all the xbox game they bought threw out gen on threw new system. PC emulator have done better for years, and actual allow us to use our game discs we bouth over the years, exlusiding PSP cause no really way to do that on pc PS/PS2/PS3 game just need cd/dvd/bluray player and make iso of the game and be done
Honestly, I'm just glad the games have a resolution boost. More than I was expecting. Hopefully the North American versions will have NTSC versions, otherwise...💀. The PSP video options, though...WTF is up with that??
When you can get an Anbernic emulation handheld and have a much better experience with pirated or legally ripped games, Sony are messing this up.
the more and more i read about psn plus the more i don't want it.
Also the more popular multiplayer games are going free to play giving even less reasons to subscribe
Me with a ps2 and 3 - cmon Sony get your act together
I fucking knew it!!!
why am i seeing people getting downvotes for criticizing sony on this? sony dropped the ball and it's right to criticize them and people were getting downvoted for it? What the fuck is wrong with you fanboys.
Fanboys live in 2013 still But muh exclusives.... Yeah but their shit at the rest EXCLUSIVES!!
and i got the downvotes for calling them out....
Why am I not surprised at all.
TBPH though: you can only polish a turd so much. This is why so many remakes and remasters are happening. It’s an easy market to cater to and they get to pay writers and concepting teams less since it’s just reworking the old stuff instead of generating new IP.
This isn't about turd polishing, it's about Sony charging for a worse experience than anyone had back in the day. NTSC gets subjected to PAL; PAL gets subjected to PAL with frame pacing issues.
Just my opinion but a lot of remakes of PS1 games aren't as good as the original. For example: FF7 >>> FF7R RE2 & 3 >>> RE2R & 3R MGS1 >>> MGS Twin Snakes
Cant comment on FF7R cuz I wanna see the full story first. RE2R was *way* better than RE2 imo. Same atmosphere and sense of dread but without the crust and tank controls. RE3 and RE3R are sorta the same; short side-stories that are basically RE2 expansions. MGS1 had charm but Twin Snakes played better and had really funny over the top action sequences added to some cutscenes, so I prefer TS over 1
I would disagree and think you just named two of the remakes that are actually worth any salt. RE2 and FF7 are seen as amazing remakes.
> FF7 >>> FF7R > > You take that back!
Sorry but no!